Can a Strong Independent Woman Be a Wife? w/ Hafsa Taher

She’s got the career, the home, the passport stamps.. so does she really need a husband? Today we sit down with Hafsa Taher, a life coach for high-achieving women to talk about what happens when Miss Independent starts considering marriage. We unpack why checklists might be ruining your love life, how success can clash with surrender, and what healthy partnership really looks like. And brothers, if a woman’s success intimidates you, this one might just shift how you see strength, love, and leading together.

Follow Hafsa on Instagram for more great tips and advice. 

Got a dilemma or story? The Single Muslim Hotline is here for you! We’ll play your anonymous messages in future episodes and offer real talk. Drop us a voice note 👇🏻
https://www.speakpipe.com/DiaryOfAMatchmaker

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Now it's become.
I want this man who'severything for me, who's my best
friend, who's my therapist,who's my intellectual partner.
I mean, these are all cups thatcan be filled by different
people, other people too,shutting down conversations too
soon, being like, oh, he saidthis, it could be a beige flag,
it could be a earth flag, but oh, red flag.

(00:22):
Run away from this, block thisperson.
Or he said this right, insteadof being open and being like,
hey, I'm curious.
What do you mean by that?
Can you help me understandwhere that's coming from?
What's marriage going to add toit that I don't already have?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
You won't know that answer until you actually get
married.
As-salamu alaykum everyone.
Welcome to another episode.
This is Zaid, and on the othermic is my wife and co-host, hiba
.
As-salamu alaykum.
Today we're lucky to have HafsaTahir.
She is a certified life coachand business strategist.
Also mashallah a successfulbusiness owner.

(00:58):
Through her coaching business,she has mashallah mentored many
women through life and business.
She has Mashallah mentored manywomen through life and business
.
Now, as a newlywed, she alsooffers insight and guidance
around courtship andrelationships.
She shares many personalexperiences and uses an approach
that is rooted in Islamicvalues.
So thank you for coming on tothe podcast Sabsa.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
No problem.
So, mashallah, you've beendoing this work for a while, as
we can see.
I know we've been followingeach other on Instagram,
supporting one another throughour entrepreneurial journeys,
but is coaching or mentoringsomething that you've always had
your mindset on, or is itsomething that just evolved
organically with your audience?

Speaker 1 (01:40):
A lot of it was really organic, because my past
is I used to be in IT and thatblack and white thinking came
really naturally to me.
If it's plugged in, it'ssupposed to work.
Sometimes it still doesn't, butI thought, you know, this is a
lot more simpler than people.
So I stuck to IT and thenstarted a business in 2019

(02:01):
making handmade gifts, and then2018, quit that business and
switched to marketing andteaching.
So it's been a journey, it'sbeen a, it's been a
self-discovery.
It's always been like I'vealways thought of it as okay, I
have this experience, I'vecollected all these points.
You know how in a game, andthen, like, once you hit this
milestone, the next level opensup.
So and then I would ask myselfwhat's the next level here?

(02:23):
You know, so a lot of it wasjust kind of figuring it out
step by step, day by day.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
You make it sound easy.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
No, oh my God, you don't know how many nights I'm
like.
What am I?

Speaker 3 (02:34):
supposed to do?
I'm sure, I'm sure it's not,but working with high achieving
women, what patterns have younoticed, especially when it
comes to relationships and love?

Speaker 1 (02:48):
You know, being in school, being successful in
business like, and relationshipslike very different set of like
skills and talents right Like Ican talk about from my personal
experience.
I was like a straight, astudent, right Like 4.0 GPA and
I wasn't even trying.
Sometimes I'm just like I justwant to be done.
I had a, I had an internshipjob lined up.
My internship was like comeback to us when you graduate,

(03:10):
you have a job offer letter fromus and I'm just like man don't
care about my GPA and I stillended up for the 4.0 GPA, right.
So school was really easy,alhamdulillah, like that's one
of the things like I just kindof knew how to navigate
relationships, on the other hand, was like there was no
guidebook, there was no textbook, there was no answer cheat
sheet.
I'm like I don't know what'shappening here.

(03:30):
Right, because, because it'svery different skill sets and
it's also very different interms of the kind of stuff you
need to work on yourself as as alife coach, as a certified life
coach and also someone who'sbeen into coaching therapy
myself for for a lot um, I'velearned these things like in the
business, you are like thedecision maker, you are like

(03:53):
deciding how things go.
You're also a rigid like you.
You may be a beginning of theyear, january.
You're like I want to make 100k, I want to make 10k, right, and
then you're working like a plan, like plan a, plan b, plan c.
Okay, this didn't work, q1'sdone, what do we need to change?
Right?
So it's a lot of like um, youare the decision maker, there's
a lot of control, you have avision and you are like you have

(04:14):
a timeline to execute.
You're driven by outcome.
But in a relationship,especially in a marriage, it's
completely the opposite.
It's a lot of just letting go,like just surrendering.
It's also co-creating and theprocess can be really like
uncertain, sometimes can feeleven messy, like there's all
these big emotions that arecoming up and you're navigating

(04:36):
it with another person, even ifthis person is from the same
village as you, from the sameschool as you, from the same.
Like you were born in the samehospital and your parents have
been neighbors for the entireentire life.
Right, even at that point, likethey are still very different
people.
You both are very differentpeople and they come with their
own perspective, with their ownlike upbringing, with their own.

(04:57):
How would life's tree giventhem you know how much lessons
they've learned right.
So, in a marriage, likesomething that can be really
hard for like someone like mewas like surrender, right, and I
think a lot of like highachieving women, women who have
become used to like being incharge uh, struggle with like
you're surrendering to, to thewill of allah, you're practicing

(05:19):
there's a level of trust andletting go that the business
sort of demands.
What like relationships.
Next level, it just becomeseverything becomes personal and
you know that whole hyperindependence that you get.
You're able to do in like abusiness with, with in a
marriage or in a relationship,you're learning to like
co-create, like hey, let'sfigure this out together, right.

(05:40):
Sometimes, like that protectionfrom like disappointment and
hurt comes up like and you don't.
A lot of people are scared oflike and I'm sure we'll talk
more about this later of likeletting that guard down.
They're like I'm gonna stay incharge, I'm gonna stay in
control, because that's the onlyway I've known to like take,
take care of myself, uh.
But when you let your guarddown, when you are obviously

(06:02):
with, with, with like takingyour time, your camera, when you
let your guard down, you'reable to soften, to trust, to be
seen.
It's just completely different.
What ends up happening is justabsolutely beautiful, but you
have to allow for that.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
For sure.
You touched upon so many thingsthat I want to unpack right now
, but I think, mashal, youhaven't been married too long.
So, as you mentioned in yourbio, you are still a newlywed
relatively speaking, but priorto getting married I believe
your business was prettysuccessful.
It was well established andoftentimes with girls that

(06:42):
becomes a major search criteriain assessing the right spouse
that they want someone who hasachieved a similar degree of
success, whatever it might beentrepreneurial, it could be
academic, social, whatever itmight be.
Was that the case with you to acertain degree, or was it not?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
I had been looking for a long time so I really had
the time to be like what isreally important for me.
There's actually a book calledA Case for Settling for Mr Good
Enough.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yes, I saw that in your Instagram stories.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, right, that's one book and there's another one
called Elizabeth Gilbert thename's escaping me, but I'll
come back.
There's another one called,where she explores the need for
marriage, like why get married?
I mean, in her relationship shehas everything right that we
Muslims don't have, but she haseverything that she and her only
question is should I sign thatpaper or not?

(07:37):
She goes through this entirejourney in the entire book
trying to answer that questionfor herself.
What I really loved about andto come back to your question is
understanding what yourcriteria is right, like what is
marriage going to do for me?
What do I want it to do for me?
What, what?
How is it going to add value tomy life?
What am I looking for?
And at the end of the day, likehaving having all these

(08:00):
criteria, you know, when you'reyounger, you're like I want
somebody who is this much tallerthan me, because if the photos
would look really cute.
You know all these like metrics, like like metrics that that
look, that sound pretty amazing.
But as you get older, as youkeep looking, you're like what
is it really boiled down to?
What is it really boiled downto?
For me, it was opennesssomebody who's open, who's

(08:23):
willing to, who's open tolearning, who's open to like
exploring different thoughtsthat they probably have never
had.
They might say, hey, I've neverhad that experience.
Can we talk about this?
Just that openness was kind oflike what I was looking for,
without even having put it inwords.
But when you see it, you see itright.
When you see it in other peopleand when you see the opposite

(08:44):
somebody saying, no, I don't getthis, I don't believe this.
End of story, right.
So I think one of my maincriteria is just that openness.
Being able to like have aconversation versus like this is
what I think.
End of discussion.
So my criteria wasn't like theseand has to make this much money
has to.
I mean, you know what?

(09:04):
Yes, you have to be practicaland be like can this man support
a family and things like that?
If you want to move out, can we?
Can this man allow for thatright?
His income allow for that?
But at the end of the day, likeI think I become also someone
older, someone gone to therapy,coaching myself I really had to
dig down and say what is thatone thing that I?
What is that one thing that Iwant?
What is that one thing that Ifeel like is the indicator that

(09:28):
allows me to be like okay, I cantrust this person because he's
so open, he's so willing to like, listen, yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Okay, I'm glad you touched on the topic of the need
for marriage.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
How can you tell the difference between someone who
says how can you tell thedifference between someone who
says a girl who says I don'tneed a man in my life as a
survival mechanism, maybebecause of trauma or rejection

(10:01):
or bad experiences and betweenit coming from a place of ultra
feminism about this, becausethis comes up a lot, especially
in the ultra-feminism youmentioned.
Like I mean, we have beenbrainwashed with this messaging.
We live in this environment,right?
So even when you were little,there might have been cartoons
with the supplemental messaging,right, about the woman being
hyper-independent.
I want to make sure we don'tdismiss that there's been

(10:23):
trillions of dollars being spenton this right for a reason,
right?
So, uh, I want to make sure wedon't we don't just like assume
that we came up with this on ourown and then women are all are
deciding this on their own, likethese were thoughts that were
implanted without even themthinking.
So that's one.
And as adults, we got to chooseand say okay, do I want this
thought in my head or not?

(10:44):
Do I have to unlearn and undothis thinking that was ingrained
into me because of media orwhatever right Propaganda that I
didn't even realize came intome.
I started thinking this way,but also I have this theory
about how we came up to thisthinking in the Muslim
environment and some of it mightbe just generalization for my

(11:04):
part Muslim environment and someof it might be just
generalization for my part.
But so what happened is theywere the parents, our mothers,
our aunts and grandmothers thathad very less control or say in
a marriage, right.
So they felt like very cornered, they felt like helpless, they
felt isolated in a marriage andthey felt like they didn't have
much of a say in the marriage ora position in a marriage, right

(11:27):
.
So what they told theirdaughters to do is go get an
education.
Go get an education so you canbe, you can rely on yourself
when you need to, and you can.
You won't be as helpless as Iam, you won't be as cornered and
isolated as I am that I don'thave options.
Now I want to make sure youhave the options.

(11:49):
So what the mothers, aunts andgrandmothers maybe mothers,
aunts, that that generation didis they sent their daughters to
go get education.
They said become independent.
So you have a plan B.
And I heard this scholar oncesay like, if you are going into
a marriage with a plan B ready,how committed are you to that
option?
A right.
Like if you're already saying Ihave my backup plan ready, I'm

(12:10):
going to go into this.
Like how committed are yougoing to show up as if you
already have a plan B.
That's solid, that's rock solid.
Like you have a plan B of like,oh, if this doesn't work out, I
know what I'm going to be doing.
Like that's the kind of mindsetthat can be very detrimental to
a marriage.
Right, because you're not fullygoing in to be like inshallah,
we'll make this work.
Right.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, it sounds like an exit strategy for our
business, right Like that's whatyou do for business, but not
for relationship.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
That's right, yeah, and it's not very healthy, right
.
Like I know.
I know a lot of women I talk toare financially stable, they
can travel on their own, they'resaving, they're investing,
they're buying homes right.
And the question does come uplike, where do we go from here?
Like we have sprung from oneextreme of like women feeling
isolated, women feeling corneredand women feeling pressured,

(12:59):
having no say in a relationship,having no options, to other
extreme of like I've got it allRight.
And I have to say, like I'veheard women say, I have so much
stability in my life.
If I want to risk it, it has tobe worth it.
Right, it comes from a place ofself-protection, and maybe it's

(13:20):
not so much the mothers whohave done this.
It's also like watching themother go through something,
watching an aunt go throughsomething, watching his sister
go through something.
It's like I'm not going to bethat fool who puts my heart on
the line.
You know I'm going to be smarthere.
I'm going to protect myself,right.
Like it's a lot ofself-preservation, I feel like
from women and this doesn't gettalked about, unfortunately.

(13:40):
It really is coming from aplace of like I want to protect
myself, but then, like we'veseen those two extremes where
women want to be self-developed,hyper-independent, and women
being having no say in arelationship.
But Islam is a theme of likebalance, where men and women,
they both have value, they bothhave roads to play that

(14:01):
contribute to the whole, andit's not about one being better.
It's about, like, unlearningthat survival mechanism instead
of shaming it and understandingthat it was about like
protection, which I don't needanymore, right, which which can
be like, okay, they needed it.
But also, I have the tools tolearn how to find the right
person that aligns with myvalues.

(14:21):
I have the tools to, like youknow, take care of my, my
emotions and my emotional well,my values.
I have the tools to, like youknow, take care of my, my
emotions and my emotionalwell-being.
I have the tools to seek thehelp I need, right.
So, um, practical steps wouldbe like unlearning that thinking
if that's something that thelisteners are struggling with to
be like, why do I need a man,you know, um, going for therapy,
like either well, or workingwith coaches, to be like, okay,

(14:43):
help me unpack my values, helpme unpack, like my worldview, um
and ally, and because, like,healing and growth, can support
your values, rather than beingpulled away from it, subhanallah
.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
it feels like, uh, in today's culture, each gender is
operating from a place ofsuizan in the other gender and,
like you said, I have to have abackup plan.
I have to protect myself.
They're going to take advantageof me.
I'm going to end up in a badsituation and you know what you
were just saying about, likemothers and grandmothers and

(15:16):
aunties pushing the daughters toget education.
I remember growing up I wouldalways used to hear it from my
mother the most important thingfor a girl in her life is her
degree.
I never heard it's marriage,never heard it's her home and
her family.
You have to get an education,have that degree, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
SubhanAllah, subhanallah, and you know, yes,
there's a place for it.
But in the context, in a biggerconversation, like, yes, you
know, one of the things like wealways got what we heard is what
, if you know, God forbid, likeyour husband gets sick or he
gets into an accident, like, andyou need to become the
breadwinner you should be, youshould be educated enough to be

(15:56):
able to earn the living you know, and, yes, that seems a very,
it seems like a situation thatsome people, some women, have
fallen and gotten into.
You know, life has testedeverybody differently.
But, like I hear you, it needsto be in a bigger context of
like, how can you become astrong woman, you know, in terms
of like, being a strong partner, being a strong mother, right

(16:18):
In the context as well, yes,yeah, it sounds like everybody's
just kind of speaking fromtheir own personal experiences
or whatever that might be.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
So I often find times with girls whether it's in my
personal journey, trying to getmarried and even professionally
that they conflate success withcompatibility that much like
girls.
These days they're becomingbusiness owners, ceos,
politicians, and the list goeson and for them, a compatible
spouse is someone who's at thatlevel or close to that level,

(16:51):
because only that kind of personwill understand them and the
struggles that they've taken toget there.
So do you feel there's sometruth to that, or is that just
ego talking?

Speaker 1 (17:00):
You know, when we think of a successful woman,
okay.
So when people say I teachInstagram marketing, right?
So when people say I want asuccessful, I want an Instagram,
that's like working, they onlythink of followers, right?
Like, I want 100K followers, Iwant 10K.
I don't know if you rememberthe time when you had to get 10K
followers in order to get swipeup, right?

(17:21):
So that became the only metricspeople were after, right?
So what I call these vanitymetrics yes, the numbers look
good, but at the end of the day,what's that doing for your
business?
So sometimes we take one metricand make that all about that
thing.
So we take the successful womanand make it all about her.
But that's just one aspect ofher.

(17:42):
She's successful and she couldbe's successful and she could be
practicing and she could behumble and she has, she has.
She's emotionally intelligentto be able to put her ego aside
and have an open conversation.
So I feel like, when, generally, like when we talk about a
successful woman, we kind of puther in a box that has all these
, all these assumedcharacteristics that come with

(18:03):
it.
Successful, as in she wants tobe in charge.
Successful, as in she has herego up her nose, right.
So we come up with all theseattributes to assume what a
successful woman looks like,when in fact, she could be a
completely different definition,like Katija is the only one who
is successful.
Right, we don't associate allof those, but that's the culture

(18:25):
that's doing that.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
So is there some truth to that that compatibility
involves assessing whether ornot that person is at the same
successful level?

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I think it's really important for the person woman
looking to get married or theman looking to get married
really think about what are thevalues I'm looking for.
Values, right, and that couldbe.
And the same thing with, likesomeone saying, oh, I want a
religious person.
What does that mean?
I want a successful person.
What does that mean, right?
Does it mean like numbers, orthat he has to, he has to earn

(18:59):
this much, but he could be likedrowning in debt, right, right,
like you have to see the fullpicture and really understand
what are you looking for?
Am I looking for safety?
Am I looking for financialsecurity?
Right?
So am I looking to haveintellectual conversations with
this person?
And that's great, and maybethis person doesn't have to have
achieved what you have in orderto have intellectual

(19:20):
conversations.
Right, and and again, like,even when people say I want a
religious man, what does thatmean?
Because somebody could beplaying the hajj, but somebody
could be really good atmemorizing, like learning new
things on the go, somebody couldbe really good at like giving
charity, right, there's so manyfacets, there's so many layers

(19:42):
to something like successful,religious, like it really comes
down to being, like, what do Iwant in a man?
What do I want in a woman?
And sometimes you know thatbook I mentioned, uh, committed,
that's what it's called lizgilbert committed, which talks
about what does a marriage do?
And we have the.
The role of marriage has changedover the year, over the decades

(20:02):
.
Right at one point, marriagewas I'll marry this nice guy I
know from middle school orelementary school.
I've known him all my life andhe's good.
I'll marry him because this iswhat we do next.
Now it's become I want this manwho's everything for me, who's
my best friend, who's mytherapist, who's my intellectual

(20:23):
partner.
I mean, these are all cups thatcan be filled by different
people.
Other people too, like you,want to have this intellectual
conversation.
You can join this, this clubwhere you have these
intellectual conversations, andthis person, this man, this
woman you have in your life can,can be there for your to
co-create life, for safety, forcreating beautiful moments

(20:43):
together.
We can have other people tofill in some of these cups.
I feel like.
So, yes, if you're looking fora spouse who's exactly at the
same level as you, you might besaying no to people that
actually might have become like,might have been an amazing
potential spouse.
You might just be throwing awayopportunity.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I would say yeah, hiba, and I joke sometimes that
sometimes with our clients itfeels like they're ordering a
burger.
You know they want all theright condiments, they want the
meat cooked a certain way, theywant the perfect order.
But we're talking about humanbeings, we're not talking about
food, and human beings don'tcome that way.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, you know, you know, like that's also like
really having to dig deep andsay I want somebody who's like
like somebody, a woman or a man,saying I want somebody who's
like 5'10, really digging deepand saying why, why is that
important for me?
Right, and maybe like when theydig deep and they it might just
come down to like asking thatwhat multiple, why is it?

(21:38):
It might just come down to oh,I want us to look good in photos
.
Oh, I have my mom made acomment about somebody else's
photo and it always stuck withme.
Like it might just come down tothat, like whose voice is it in
your head?
And when you pull that card out, the entire house crumbles down
.
Right, I've had that.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Oh my God, I wish girls like really internalize
this.
You have no idea how many timeswe come across people who make
perfect matches honestly atleast on paper and from our
conversations with them butbecause he's a little bit
shorter than she wants sometimeshe's even taller than her but
shorter than her criteria shewouldn't even consider it and

(22:16):
like we are burning insidebecause he's a great catch and
they wouldn't even consider ityeah, that that is really
unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Like that, that vanity metrics, that we get
stuck on height and all of thoselittle things.
And that's when you have to digdeep and like, why is that
important for me?
Like, what am I, what meaningam I assigning with this right?
Like on the day of judgment,like, is the height going to be
the reason why you get you intojannah?
Like he's entering jannah right, he's taking you with you with,

(22:47):
with with him, because he wasthe perfect hire and he got free
admission to jannah, like youknow, like really have to dig
deep and where is this thoughtcoming from?
And that's where life coaching,that's where therapy, that's
where, like working with, maybeeven like having conversations
with experienced, um, olderwomen who've been married for
10-15 years and be like, willthis, will this matter when,
like 15 years, when I'm in yourshoes?
Uh, after being married for 15years, is this something that I

(23:11):
would still care about?
Right?
So I think there's a lot oflike inner work that goes into
looking for a spouse.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
When we ask them in all honesty, like 99% of them
say, uh, I don't feel attractedto a shorter guy, and then you
you can't say anything to thatlike you're attracted to what
you're attracted to, yeah that'sit.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, yeah, and you know, like, what I was thinking
was thinking about a lot ofwomen do say like I'm open to
marriage, but they are.
Are they fully, fullyemotionally available for the
relationship?
Right, I've been there myselfand things I've seen as like
saying things like that, oh, I'mnot attracted to this.
Without giving it a thirdchance, right, without giving it

(23:52):
a third chance, without beingopen-minded about it, without,
like, maybe even meeting thisperson in person and being like
I want to just give it a chanceand see, right, uh, like, even
like shutting down conversationstoo soon.
Being like, oh, he said itcould be a beige flag, it could
be a flag, but, oh, red flag,run away from this, block this

(24:12):
person.
Oh, he said this.
Right, instead of being openand being like, hey, I'm curious
, what do you mean by that?
Can you help me understandwhere that thought's coming from
?
And sometimes, like, when you'rechatting I mean the time, the
days we live in, the age we livein like there's a lot of like
apps, there's a lot of likechatting back and forth, but
just get on a phone as, likeadults, you know you wouldn't do
a business meeting or like onchat, right, like, sometimes

(24:35):
even like emailing back andforth.
You'd say let's get on a phone,right, why not do that with
something that is going to like,really like, decide like the
next, maybe the next chapter ofyour life?
Right, get on the phone, meetthis person in person and really
fully put your heart out there,put your right, put your heart
on the line and be like this isa potential.

(24:55):
Treat it like a potential right.
Coach would always tell me thisis not the last guy on the
world.
Just treat it like a potential,but fully, fully like.
Really consider that withoutlike shutting it down, without
like, without your trauma,without your past experiences,
without your self-protection,coming on and being like red
flag, I'm out of it.

(25:15):
Right, we're so quick to callany flag a red flag.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Now, right, really exploring to be like yeah, yeah,
zaid likes to say that we livein a Netflix era.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, just binge through every guy.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
That's it, I always think there's an endless amount
of that right.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, subhanallah.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Seems like yeah, yeah , let's move to guys.
What would you say and we hearit a lot what would you say to a
guy who feels intimidated by asuccessful woman?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, I just want to add one thing before you answer
that.
Because guys, naturally they'represcribed with the
responsibility to lead and soand they want to maintain that
status and dignity as a leaderor caretaker and they don't want
that to be compromised,especially when they see a girl
who's so successful out there inthe world.

(26:05):
So what advice would you giveto men who, at the same time,
want to still retain that?

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah.
So I spoke to other men to getmore perspective about this,
because who am I to speak onbehalf of men?
So I was like you guys, tell me, what did you have to do in
order to become confidentWhether this woman is making has
like 56,000 followers,confident whether this woman is
making has like 56 000 followers, whether this woman has like a
successful business, whetherthis woman has been out on her

(26:34):
own and doing things right?
Uh, what did you have to do?
Or how did you have to work onyourself to be like okay, I can
have a conversation with thiswoman without feeling
intimidated, without feelingthreatened, right, uh, without
feeling like this is not goingto, this won't work out, right,
without shutting it down beforeeven giving it a chance?
So one I think men also have tounderstand the point we talked

(26:56):
about earlier.
When we think of successfulwomen, let's not
compartmentalize them and haveall these automated stereotypes
attached to them.
She could be practicing, shecould be humble Most of the time
.
She is right, she is down tothem.
Like she could be practicing,she could be humble Most of the
time she is right, she is downto earth, she's really open to
like, has emotional intelligenceto be able to like have proper
conversations, right.

(27:16):
So let's not, men, don't reducethem to one trait Like, you
lose the full picture.
And then, when you're thinkingabout like, let's say, this
woman is used to running things,uh, on her own, like business
or travel and all of that, andshe might be used to used to
like being in control.
So thinking about like okay,this woman has lived life like

(27:40):
this.
At the same time, sheunderstands that marriage is
different, right, and anemotionally intelligent woman
understands about.
Marriage is a right, and anemotionally intelligent woman
understands marriage is apartnership where we work things
together.
Right.
It's about like reallyunderstanding, making the other
person feel seen and heard, anda good man understands all of
that.
So, to answer your question,what do men need to do?

(28:00):
Number one someone really smartonce said to me like respect is
earned, not demanded.
So making the woman feel field,seen and heard, right, like
that's also like maybe she's hadher father's uh, uh, other men
in the family who've always beenlike my way or the highway,
right, so maybe she's had menlike that and unfortunately, in

(28:23):
some cultures, men haven'treally lived, lived up to the
responsibility of what it meansto be a man.
I was listening to this podcastthe other day with Omar Adil Han
, who would say if there's ananimal that trips and falls in
Egypt, I'm going to bequestioned about it.
These men really tookresponsibility seriously, right,

(28:44):
I want to make sure likenobody's harmed under my rule,
under my kingdom, not from aplace of, like ego driven, but
I'm going to be asked by Allahabout this right.
I'm going to be asked aboutthis, so I have to make sure I
take care of these people.
I have to take care of thiswoman.
So one like making it a safespace for a woman, but also

(29:07):
respect being earned, notdemanded.
But also like when you're havingthese conversations, right,
like really understanding whatkind of relationship are you
looking to have?
What kind of relationship isthis woman looking to have?
And there are families I'veseen that are matriarchal and
there are families that arepatriarchal, like the families
where the woman makes all thedecisions, right, so maybe she

(29:27):
grew up in that kind of familyand she thinks that she'll be in
charge, right, so really justunderstanding.
Okay, what do you foresee afuture family to be, a future
family to look like?
How do the husband and wifework together?
So you might really have to digdeep and be like okay,
understanding.
Like where is this woman comingfrom, what are her expectations
, right?
Like where's this woman comingfrom, what are her expectations,

(29:49):
right, and what are herexpectations in terms of, like,
division of labor, liketraditional roles, or maybe
there's something else that shewants she thinks is might work
better for her futurerelationship?
Sheikh Yasser Bajaj said areally really amazing thing once
.
Like he's been doing likefinding your Mr Right kind of
workshops for like over 10-15years now, right, and he's been

(30:11):
in the marriage, he's beenhaving conversations and he's
been talking to people and totwo people looking to get
married for like a number ofyears.
He said something beautiful.
He said the Prophet, sallallahualayhi wa sallam, had multiple
wives.
One of the his wives, one ofhis relationships, one of his
marriages, was like the womansent the proposal for him, where

(30:32):
Khadija said to a friend canyou ask about this birthday of
Prophet, I'm interested in it,right, and he said no, I don't
think I'm ready for marriage.
And he sent a message back andshe sent a message back.
So this was a marriage wherethe woman asked kind marriage
where the woman kind of took thelead.
And then we have the marriagewith Aisha that was arranged by

(30:54):
the parent, right.
So we see so many differentkinds of relationships in the
seerah.
We see women that aresuccessful, like the word we use
right Successful, wealthy, rich, right.
Successful like what we put theword we use right, successful,
wealthy, rich, right.
We see uh relationships, or wesee the prophet sallallahu
alayhi wa sallam havingrelationships with so many
different kind of people.
So there's so much we can learnfrom this isa.

(31:16):
But we have kind of like,reduced islam to this is the
traditional role.
This is the only formula thatworks where the woman is younger
, but the woman, this is the agegap that needs to be Like.
We have come up with all thesestories that have cultures
taught us, but we need to kindof go back to the deen and be
like what does Islam talk aboutthis?
So, to answer your question,when, how do men not feel

(31:37):
intimidated?
Is one not seeing, notsummarizing them to one trait,
and really exploring, reallytalking to this person, to kind
of be like what else is aboutthis person?
I want to find out, like, whatare her values, how easy is it
to talk to her Right, but alsorespect being earned, like you
have to show up in a role whereyou are being the safe space and

(31:59):
you are like being a safe spacefor her, even when you're just
having a conversation.
Are you like letting her finishher sentences?
That's smart, right?
Are you listening, are you?
You like taking part in theconversation?
Are you adding to it versusbeing like no, this is like,
this is my, this is the way I dothings.
End of discussion, right.
So, uh, being uh, being likereally disrespect being earned,

(32:22):
and then having the conversationabout, like, what kind of
marriage are you looking for?
So, if the man is looking formaybe traditional roles, what we
call traditional roles right,so, and the woman's like, oh, I,
I want to be earning, I want tobe able to like, do this, this
and this, right, so maybethere's a mismatch there, but
really just understanding wheretwo people are coming from, and
having that honest conversation,that deep conversation about

(32:44):
what do I need, what do you need, what would we need together?

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought the topic of
conversations.
Let's be practical and precise.
What conversations should acouple have, especially if we're
talking about a high achievingwoman?
What conversations should theyhave before marriage in terms of
roles, responsibilities,leadership, decision making?
Even because sometimes somesuccessful women they feel a

(33:13):
little bit edgy any kind of likemention of leadership they take
it as control as they're beingcontrolled.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Or compromise.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yes, that's right, and that's actually a question,
great question that couplespotentially couples can ask each
other is how do you define maleleadership?
Right, how do you define maleleadership?
Because one, like one, likeeach of them, might have never
thought about those answers butreally thinking about okay, what
am I looking for?
What have I seen that doesn'twork?

(33:44):
Maybe it's not, I don't knowwhat it's supposed to look like,
but this is what I have seenand I know that's not a slump,
right?
So, so, really exploring whatdoes male leadership Without
your, without being triggered,without your ego coming on the
line, you know, putting puttingyour ego offline, disconnecting
the Wi-Fi signal on your ego andbeing like, hey, let's, can we

(34:04):
explore what male leadershiplooks like?
But you're right, because wehave seen bad examples, right,
we've been.
We've seen how that leadershipcan be used as a controlling
card, as a card to like my wayor the highway, right?
So, uh, you're right.
So sometimes it can betriggering and for women, if
male leadership is triggering,you have to go back to the dean
and like ask yourself what isthe true definition of this?

(34:27):
What does a mom even mean,right?
What kind of responsibility?
And same for men like you.
You said, like what do men haveto do in order to not feel
intimidated?
Is like self-awareness, whatare your strengths, what are you
bringing to the relationship?
And and I do, I understand mencan be reduced to that one
number of how much do you make,right?
100, get it right right.

(34:47):
So, like they themselves haveto be like okay, I am more than
how much I make.
I am this person.
I add this value to therelationship.
I bring this, like theythemselves have to know what
value they're bringing to therelationships of self-awareness,
emotional intelligence and alsothis is what the men have told
me is working on their physicaland their appearance.

(35:08):
Right like being fit and it'snot about fitting this, this
numbers again, like putting this, this formula out there, but
really being presentable, beingbeing like working on yourself
to look presentable and beingfit.
Everybody has to be, everyonehas to be fit and but, as a man
to be, to work on yourconfidence, self-awareness, even

(35:30):
learning the theme, likelearning about investments,
learning about budgeting,learning about all these topics
that you future you will need,right like being able to like
learn all these things to buildyour confidence and also working
on yourself physically as well.
But to answer your questionabout, like, what conversation
should you have?
Something that I highly, highly,highly recommend now is

(35:51):
premarital counseling, becausethe thing is that if someone's
never been married before, youdon't know what questions to ask
.
You don't know what questionswill be an issue, you don't know
what questions.
What are the top things thatwill break a marriage right?
What are the top things thatwill break a marriage right?
What are the top things thatwill cause conflict in a
marriage, right?
I mean, given the, we havenever dated anyone, we have

(36:13):
never been in a live-in, we havenever had all these experiences
right, so we don't know what toask sometimes.
So premarital counseling willbring up those topics now.
So now, instead of you beinglike, oh, I don't know how to
ask about the money question, Idon't know how to ask about the
intimacy question, pre-maritalcounseling will bring it up.
Right, they will say what I,what are your um, what are some

(36:34):
assumptions about this you have,what are your?
What have you seen in yourparents that has worked?
What have you seen in yourparents that has not worked?
How do you see money?
You know, what are yourspending habits?
All these questions really comeup in pre-marital counseling.
That's one.
So, go for pre-maritalcounseling uh, they most of them
would have like some kind oflike a course component where

(36:55):
you watch videos and a workbookcomponent to it, and then, like
some of them might have like anadd-on where you work with an
imam or like a therapist, whereyou're both able to bring up
like they ask questions, youboth are able to have
conversations and that.
So pre-marital counseling islike really affordable now is
really accessible.
There's so many organizationsthat do it.
But then also the questionsabout, like, how do we?

(37:17):
What does marriage look likefor you?
What kind of roles do we want?
Do you assume that you want inyour future relationship?
What does male leadership looklike?
Money being a big one, right.
How do you communicate?
So, other than it's not like,other than waiting for passively
figuring these things out orfeeling like you know, the

(37:38):
biggest thing for women is I'mgoing to lose control, right,
I'm going to have to give upcontrol.
I'm going to have to like beunder this person.
This is your time.
This is your time to ask allthe questions, right.
Ask questions about, like, howdo you see a relationship
working out?
Is it where the man just makesall the decisions?
Or is it like a co-creation?
Is it a partnership?
Maybe we both have differentstrengths and we create an

(37:59):
experience that either each oneof us wouldn't have had
independently, right?
So really just asking thosequestions.
This is your time to be smart.
This is your time to be wiseand proactive and asking those
questions, to bringing up thosetopics and being like exploring
those now.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Okay, I have an honest question now Are we, are
we over-complicating marriage?
Like, look, we have books, wehave courses, we have counseling
, we have podcasts, coaches, allof that.
And look at the generation ofour parents, our grandparents.
They didn't have any of that.
Sometimes they even got marriedwithout seeing each other.

(38:38):
And at the same time, look atthe divorce rates at their time
and at our time.
Is all just a hype, or whatexactly?

Speaker 1 (38:48):
so our parents got, sometimes got married without
even looking at each other.
Our parents didn't have properconversations, the way we have
list of 150 questions, 150questions to ask before marriage
, right?
Right, they didn't do all ofthat, but look at the
consequences of that.
The divorce rate was low.
Why?
Because they didn't haveoptions.
There was so much stigma withdivorce.

(39:10):
I mean one.
It was not even an option.
What would the woman do?
She didn't earn, she didn'thave her parents to go back to.
Was it her choice to stay inthat relationship or was it out
of?
I have no options.
This is the only option I have.
Right?
So, yes, the divorce rates werelow, but why, right?
Were they all successfulmarriages?

(39:32):
Were they all happy marriages?
I don't know.
I don't know, right?
So, yes, you're right, we mightbe overcomplicating it sometimes
, but at the same time, we arenot the woman, those women.
I can speak from the woman'sperspective, right, I don't know
about the men, but as a woman,I know we're not the same,
especially if you're older, ifyou've seen the world.

(39:53):
I mean, women got married at 18, 19, 20, 21,.
Right Now, women get married inthe 30s, right?
So, completely a differentpersonality, someone who's seen
the world, someone who exploredthemselves, who's more
self-aware, like when you're 19,.
You're still figuring it outwhen you get married, oh, you
know what let's.
They're both learning, they'reboth growing together in some
ways, right.
But now when you're looking ata woman who is in the 30s, who's
in the 40s, she has a set ofvalues, she knows what she wants

(40:17):
, right.
So I don't know if it's fair tocompare, like, their marriages
with our marriages, right.
And again, like, yes, it's notabout finding the one person who
fits all these cups.
Like I said, going back to thatbook, the case of finding a good
enough man, it really talksabout what did people look for

(40:39):
in the past, what do they lookfor now, whereas the book
Committed talks more about whatis the purpose, purpose of
marriage, which are absolutelyboth really important books that
I was just like mind blown bythose two books.
The combination of, like,marrying a man who's just good
enough, you know, like, how manycriteria can you have, right?
Like, uh, I had once, likesheikh muhammad al-sharif told

(41:02):
my friend have top three.
She made a list of 10, but hesaid top three things, that's it
.
You want three things that youwant to look for in a spouse and
that's it.
Right Three things.
And if this person has it, youwant to just be able to consider
him genuinely and see what youwant to do, how to take that
further.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Isn't that too much compromising?

Speaker 1 (41:24):
That's a great question, maybe.
But again, like, if you that'syour top three values, then is
that compromise Right?
Or maybe that's being realisticto be like I'm not going to
find someone with a list of like150 questions, answering 150
questions exactly the way I wantthem to answer it Right, then I
feel like they are more likelyto be a potential, an amazing

(41:47):
spouse.
I want to consider this,obviously get your parents
involved, get, like eldersinvolved.
Maybe you're not seeingsomething they will see, but
really just to show, like, makeyour list, take them, to take
them to the next level, topthree things.
But yes, compromise absolutely.
But isn't that life?
You know?
Sometimes you want that perfectice cream and you're like it

(42:07):
has to have these sprinkles onit and it's not available.
Then you do settle, right, youdo settle with the next best
option.
Like I'm gluten intolerant, somy options are very limited.
Am I compromising?
Hell, yes, but do I have to?

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Hell, yes, yeah, to add to what you're saying with
regards to options.
So eva and I dedicated I thinkin town, or we did a video on
this about the illusion ofoptions that at the end of the
day, we overlooked the fact thatwe are still a minority here in
the west right, like wecomprise of, I think, in canada,

(42:42):
about three percent of thepopulation is muslims, if I'm
not mistaken.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Closer to five.
Closer to five.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Okay, closer to five.
Still, that's still so low.
And yet we think we have a seaof options that we can just
explore through and we can justpick and choose when we don't
Like.
There has to be a certaindegree of compromise and
willingness to make thepotential match work right.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, yeah and I know the word compromise comes with
a lot of negative connotation,but really, if my top values are
being met, the rest is justnice to have, right?
So when you look at it likethat, you're like this is I'm
not compromising on these.
These are deal breakers.
These are the top three thingsthat I absolutely have.
Everything else is nice to have, and can we have conversations

(43:28):
about those?
Right?
Like, can we be able to come toa conclusion?
Are we able to come to someterms together to be like hey, I
know you want this, but this iswhat I feel more comfortable
with.
Can we work something out?
Right?
Maybe they might say not in thefirst year, but I promise you
in the second year we'll look atthis right?
Like, maybe the conversationsyou can have and you're able to
trust this person to say, okay,you know what he's giving me my

(43:50):
word, and we're able to createthis partnership of trust and
feeling seen and feeling heardand being able to, like, rely on
this person, right?
So I feel like, yes, we mightbe overcomplicating it.
One of the things that he talksabout in that book finding a

(44:15):
case of a good enough man isthat pool is small.
Like men can marry, like olderand younger Women are generally
looking for same age or older,generally, right.
So for women, like, if you arelooking for, if you're someone
in your 40s, 30s, there's a hugepool of men that are already
married.
So that's gone.
So if you are a man, if you arein your 30s, 40s, as a woman,

(44:39):
one has to be Muslim, has to bein at least some sort of
geographically close enoughneighborhood area that you can
travel to back and forth.
You're not looking for someoneon the other side of the world,
right?
So the pool is small, the poolis really small.
And then add to that the numberof Muslims in the West, right,

(45:00):
the pool is smaller and smallerand smaller.
It's not getting bigger as youget older.
It's not automatically as soonas you hit this number.
It's going to open this wholeworld of opportunity.
So that book really tells youokay, the pool is just getting
smaller for you and as well asthe way people are moving on.
So you have to like understandwhat do you want in a

(45:23):
relationship?
You have to really think about,like, what does marriage mean
to you?
The other book committed whatrole is marriage going to play
in your, in your life, becausein some generations, in some
cultures, it was just about thisis how the society works.
You get married, you don't havekids.
And this is how the societyworks.
You need women in the house,you need men in the field, right
, this is just how society works.

(45:44):
Now we want our spouse to beeverything.
So, really, those two books,the Case of Good Enough and also
Committed the pool is notgetting bigger.
What do I really want and whatdoes marriage mean to me?
What do I want it to be in mylife?

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Wow, okay, you touched on this in the beginning
of this beautiful interview.
I just want to go back to it.
Let's say I'm a very successfulwoman.
I make, I make God knows howmuch.
I have my own home.
I have a great pool of friends,have a lot of hobbies.

(46:22):
My family is great All of that.
Is it worth it to get married?
What would?
What would marriage bring intomy life, except for it's just
going to bring moreresponsibility, more control,
more burden.
Is it worth it?

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Yeah, you know, and especially that fear of losing
everything.
I have that stability, I havethat control I have, and I have
a good life.
Now, right, and except that onepart that Muslims are not able
to participate outside ofmarriage and intimacy side not
missing anything else Right,able to participate outside of
marriage and intimacy side, notmissing anything else right.
Again, like you said, I have atravel buddy that I travel the

(46:55):
world with, who we rescheduleour calendars and we both take
vacation at the same time.
And maybe you're traveling,maybe you're having a great life
, buying a home too, right,taking care of your parents.
So what's marriage going to addto it that I don't already have?
I think you really have to ask.
It's, you know, it's so funnyyou won't know that answer until
you actually get married.
I know, I know most singlewomen don't want to hear this.

(47:16):
They're like what do you mean?
What do you mean?
Because it's a world thatyou've not seen, right, it's a
world that you've notexperienced, you've not felt.
So, the way I look at it,instead of thinking of like the
independence, thehyper-independence, as a threat,
or like I'm going to lose myidentity, like extra

(47:36):
responsibilities, like you said,right, you have to think about
like, yes, you might be good atso many things, but there's some
things you're not good at.
Right, you might be great atfinding the best spots and
turkey to eat at, but you mightnot be good at listening to the
waves.
You know, listening to thewaves and just enjoying a beach,

(47:56):
you know like, really justgetting lost in the moment.
As someone who's who's like adoer right I do I sometimes
don't know how to be right.
So, like, each of us hasstrengths and we have weaknesses
.
There are some things we havenever experienced because that's
just the way our environment orour responsibilities have.
We have had to do, like thesafety part, like the should I

(48:19):
pick up food here and take Ihave something for dinner, or
should I go out in the dark?
You know like when you're solotraveling, there's so much right
.
Even when you're traveling witha friend, you still have a
sense of like I have to beresponsible for myself, kind of
like the safety part, right so,but when you're in a
relationship, when you're in amarriage, when you're in a
partnership, you were able torely on the other person for

(48:40):
strengths that you don't have.
Maybe you're great at problemsolving.
But you struggle with listening.
Maybe you are, uh, maybe youare feeling like, okay, if I
rely on this person, I'm gonnalose myself.
But you're not seeing thebeauty of what someone else can
bring into your life.
They can show you a whole newworld because of their
perspective, like you've neverhad.
Like it's kind of like in thequran, like we have told their

(49:04):
spouse is like a garment.
No other relationshipsdescribed like that right, a
friend, a garment.
No other relationshipsdescribed like that Right, a
friend, a brother, a parent isnot described like that.
A spouse is someone so close toyou like your clothing is Right.
So imagine to be able to relyon them for things you don't
want to do, things you're notgood at, things that you're just

(49:26):
able to split theresponsibilities.
You take care of this, I takecare of this.
Also, like be able to see aworld from a different
perspective.
Right, it's so hard to like putthings in these things into
words, but you have to trust thefitra, right, trust the fitra.
There's a reason why marriageis created.
There's a reason why a spouseis called a garment.

(49:47):
There's a reason why I mean,you know you feel safe in a
garment, you feel comfortable ina garment, this garment that's
so close to you.
And getting people so close toyou can be scary for women.
Getting somebody to become soclose to you because, know, that
illusion of control, that hyperindependence, right, um.

(50:09):
But you know, trusting thefitra, trusting what Allah has
created for us, um.
Somebody said, like, what youexperience in marriage is kind
of like a glimpse of what youexperience in jannah, because
you do have spouses in jannahtoo, right?
So, yeah, like you know how welook up, look at the fruits of
jannah in this world.

(50:29):
Like there's the, there's,there's fruits that we know are
also going to be jannah.
Like, marriage is one of thosethings, right, marriage, having
a spouse is one of those thingsthat's also going to be in
jannah.
So, really, instead of thinkingI lose myself, what am I good
to gain?
Asking yourself, how can thisperson add beauty, ease,

(50:50):
goodness and health to my life,how can we complement each other
?
How can I be inspired by them?
How can I be, rather thanfeeling like, how will I be
diminished by them?
So I feel like when you find arelationship like that inshallah
, all the single women and menfind a relationship like that
you're able to taste a differentpart of beauties that are less

(51:14):
created in the world, in thisworld beautiful I I absolutely
agree with you.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
a single woman will not know what it's like, or a
single man will not know whatit's like to be married.
It's like somebody who hasnever had chocolate before.
And they look at what's the bigdeal?
This like a brown block, sowhat like?
But once they try it, theybecome hooked.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
That's right.
That's right.
And you know what marriage doescome with challenges.
You have to be like this wholeemotional side of things.
You know it brings up a lot ofemotions.
It can bring a lot of like,triggering a lot of like past
experiences.
Maybe it's not empty ofchallenges.
It's never going to be Jannahon this earth, right?
Everything is hard.

(51:58):
Being single is hard, beingmarried is hard.
And the question just becomeswhy do you want this hard thing,
right?
Why are you pursuing this?
Is it because Allah haspromised something in there?
Allah told us there's somethingbeautiful in there.
You know, like, there's a goodintention for it.
Maybe you want to stay singleand that's not sinful, according

(52:20):
to a lot of scholars, right.
But there has to be anintention for that too, right?
And I have a friend who wantsto be single to take care of her
parents because she, in hermind, when she gets married, she
won't be able to take care ofher parents, right?
That's the story she's made upand that's the story she's
telling herself.
And maybe that's true, maybe,yeah.
But um, it really goes back tolike what is your intention?

(52:42):
Why are you doing this?
To please allah?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
then it's all him, subhanallah.
I feel so warm and fuzzy rightnow.
Honestly, we always try to givehope to people, our clients,
just people in general.
Marriage is really beautiful.
Like you said, it comes withchallenges, but it's better to
go through life, to go throughlife experiencing these

(53:06):
challenges in marriage, than notto have that at all.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
And there's no need to be afraid of challenges.
You know what Life is going tobe challenging.
Right, like the diamond thatgets sharper and brighter with
every rub.
Right, you know?
And Moulana Rumi said, thewound is where the light enters.
I'm going to stop at that micdrop.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
It is a good mic drop moment.
So I saw something on yourInstagram stories that really
stood out to me, which was thisidea of settling, and there was
a sister that asked you aquestion that she had been
looking for 10 plus years andshe was ready to give up and do
I settle or do I hold on?

(53:52):
And you said something really,really good, which was that when
you and your husband that youdidn't settle on your
non-negotiables and that therewere only two or three things,
and settling is knowing yourpriorities and finding someone
who's imperfectly perfect foryou.
So, if you don't mind sharing,and if you did, what were your

(54:13):
two or three non-negotiables?

Speaker 1 (54:17):
It's been a while since I looked at that list, but
I'm going to try and remember.
I don't remember the exactwording, but that's what I mean.
I do remember the top twovalues that I had, I think, like
I mentioned in the beginningvalues that I had.
Um, I think, like I mentionedthe big like, being able,
someone who is open to listening, open to, like, a different
viewpoint, right, um, it's funny, I actually remember what I

(54:37):
said.
Usually I forget, so, um, butthat was, I think that openness
was really big on that on mylist, because that openness
shows humility in a person and Ihave to demonstrate the same
thing.
I can't just expect it from theother person and be like, I'm
right, I know all the answers,right, like, and there are times
when I have to ask myself isthis my ego?

(54:57):
Is this because I think this isthe right thing to do?
Is this my ego?
Is this my ego?
Okay, no, it's not my ego.
I think this is the right thingto do.
So, okay, I'm going to insistand we have to do it this way,
right?
So, really really putting yourego aside and sometimes, like,
you have to challenge yourselfto do this and, like, be open to
the other person's perspective.
Hey, help me understand.
You know like, working for youknow, like when two people are

(55:19):
sitting across each other, oneperson sees a nine and the other
person sees a six, but when youcome on the other side, you're
both looking at it the same wayand you both see you six.
So instead of sitting acrosseach other in a marriage,
bringing the other person over,but you're going over and saying
, hey, show me your perspective.
I want to, I want to understandthis, right?
So someone who is like open well, it's such a vague thing, but

(55:40):
when you see it, you know it um,practicing, and to me that
meant has the basics down, notthe hajj, you know, I was like I
just and some things that areare hidden.
The only Allah knows the stateof the heart, what they do in
secret.
Right, I want to make sure thebasics are down, because I want
to make sure this is somethingthat we continue for future

(56:03):
generations, inshallah.
Right, the basics, we don'tcompromise on that.
The openness, and, yeah, I'llleave it at that.
There were a couple moreprivate things, but yeah, so
I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
Okay, okay, Hafsa, I can listen to you for hours.
Honestly, Like I feel like youknow all the right things to say
.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
No wonder you're a coach no wonder I'm happy to
hear that, honestly, I mean,there are all the right things
to say.
No wonder you're a coach.
Honestly, I made the like.
This benefits you know all thepeople that are looking to get
married.
They find they find all theright answers they're looking
for because, really,self-awareness as a man and a
woman this is what I've heardfrom the men as well
self-awareness, knowing yourself, learning about the other
gender, you know, know, like wedon't I mean especially we live

(56:50):
in such segregated environmentsor we're not supposed to look at
the woman, we can't talk to her.
How are you going to know whatthe woman wants, right?
What is she really after,especially now that maybe your
mom is very different than thespouse you're looking at?
So self-awareness, I wouldreally say, and being able to
understand the other person.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
I would really say, and being able to understand the
other person, I was just goingto ask you one last advice you
would give to anyone who'slooking, maybe on the brink of
giving up, or maybe they're notgiving up, but they're just
tired and burnt out.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, that's the other thing.
It's an exhausting journey.
When you put yourself out thereand it doesn't work out, you're
back at it again, right?
I actually messaged Dr JananYusuf Astaza, janan Yusuf, and I
told her I don't even have theenergy to make dua.
I'm just so done.
I don't even know how to makedua with passion anymore because

(57:42):
I'm just so exhausted.
What do I do?
And she, dr Janan Yusuf.
If you're not familiar with herwork, she is the author of the
Names of a Love book, and I wasattending her course with the
Swahili Web Academy.
She was doing like a course,going through one name a week,
and her book is beautiful.
If you have never picked it up,I have it somewhere here.

(58:02):
So I asked her.
I said you know what?
I'm just exhausted.
It's so draining to putyourself out there, your heart
on the line, every single time.
Oh wait, this didn't work outeither.
And I asked her what do I do?
I don't even see a hope to makedua.
Like, how do I make dua now?
Right?
She said go to Allah andcomplain about all those things.

(58:24):
Go to Him with your pain.
Go to Him with your struggle tomake dua.
Go to Him with all of thatyou're feeling Like he is the
one who responds, he is the onewho is your wali, your trustee,
he is the one who provides, heis the one who opens, he's the
one who guides.

(58:44):
So, yes, you're struggling, butthat doesn't mean you struggle
for yourself.
You still rely on Allah SWT andyou go back to Him with that
struggle and she said complainall you want to Him.
Tell Him how hard this has been, tell Him how you're struggling
, tell Him, you know, like Ithink that relationship with
Allah SWT, with Allah, likeespecially understanding His

(59:07):
names, really helped me in mybusiness too, and I came up with
this mini-course that talksabout nine or ten names of Allah
that help you in your business,as a business owner.
Because the world teaches us,you don't have anyone to rely on
, like that hyper-independencewe were talking about, and I was
listening to a podcast withDalia Mugahid.

(59:29):
Ustazah Yasmin Mugahid's sister.
Dalia Mugahid has a podcast.
She was talking about how theMusa alayhi salam staff is
something he literally leans on,physically leans on, and Allah
is telling him to put it down.
It becomes a snake, it becomesa sign of Allah.
So the things we rely on, it'sone.
Relying on something someone isnot weakness.

(59:51):
Relying on Allah SWT is theultimate source of strength, but
also your spouse relying onsomeone is that thing you're
relying on is also a sign ofAllah, right?
It's the thing that Allah sentyou your way.
So, going back to the names ofAllah, I really feel like that

(01:00:11):
changed my a lot in me.
What I thought about business,about like I have to do this on
my own, that self-reliance Idon't have to do this on my own.
I have Al-Fatah with me, I haveAr-Rasah with me.
I can always call on to theseattributes of allah swan and
make the battle, have to help me, to guide me, to open doors for
me, open doors that I didn'teven know existed, wow I want to

(01:00:35):
read that book yeah, it'sabsolutely beautiful if you can
even like attend, like watch herrecordings, watch her classes.
It's just the way she shares herexperiences.
It's beyond the book, butabsolutely beautiful.
Dr janan Janan Yousafabsolutely beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Okay, we'll look into it, inshallah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
So, before we wrap up , how can any potential client
reach out to you if they want toseek your services, seek your
assistance?
How can they find you?

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Best way would be Instagram.
My Instagram ishafsatahircoaching.
That would be the best way toreach me.
There should be a link to evenemail me if it's a longer
request and the DM characterlimit is running out, but
Instagram would be the best wayto find me description of this

(01:01:29):
episode.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
We're truly, truly grateful to you for this
beautiful advice.
Sometimes all it takes is justfor a person to listen to just
one word that could change theirlife.
So I hope inshallah people findthis in this episode.
May allah reward you, grant youlots of success and bless you
with your husband thank you somuch.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
we really appreciate you guys having me.
Like I said I have.
It's not an easy.
I want to make sure thelisteners understand that, but
we have tools, we have people,we have a lot more available now
than I had when I was doingthis.
So reach out.
It's not a shame to ask forhelp, it's not a weakness, and I
wish all your listeners all thebest.
Inshallah, inshallah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
Inshallah, jazakallah , waayakum, and to our beautiful
listeners inshallah, we'll seeyou in the next episode.
Assalamu alaikum.