December 26, 2025 • 34 mins
What if the biggest risk to your marriage isn’t who you marry, but the family you marry into? Some singles over-optimize for it, rejecting solid matches because a mom feels “too involved” or a family looks unfamiliar. Others ignore it completely, assuming love will magically fix the in-laws later. In this episode, we tackle both extremes and how to find the sweet spot in between.
Drawing from years of matchmaking and our own interracial marriage, we unpack real in-law dynamics across Muslim families: when guidance turns into control, when privacy is mistaken for secrecy, and how cultural love languages get misread. We break down clear red, yellow, and green flags and show you how to tell the difference between values that matter and styles that don’t. If you want a marriage that can thrive, not just survive, this one’s for you.
If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Assalamu alaikum.
I'm Hibah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
And I'm Zayd.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah.
Asalaamu alaikum, everyone.
Welcome back to another episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:19):
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
We owe you an apology, guys.
We could not uh release anepisode last week.
There were some unforeseencircumstances that prevented us.
Um we try to stay as committedand consistent as possible.
Um but last week was just one ofthose off weeks.
Um but moving forward, we willdefinitely try to stay focused
and release an episode everyweek.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Inshallah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Inshallah.
So our families are verydifferent in multiple ways, not
just because of the fact that weare an interracial couple, um,
but even in terms of religionvalues, to an extent, I feel
like there's a lot ofdifferences.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
I think in terms of religion, they're almost on the
same wave.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Yeah, I would yeah, actually, you're right about the
religion part.
Um, but on other things I feelthere is a difference.
SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
How much of a factor was family compatibility to you
when we were talking?
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
Uh honestly, I was so happy that they are
different.
Really?
Yes.
Because just the fact that theycan't communicate created more
room for us to just be ourselvesand uh just like dictate
whatever we want in ourmarriage.
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now that I think about that,that was a blessing.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Like, I'm not saying that if they could communicate,
then our marriage will will notwork, but it just made it easier
for us.
Like we were the ones in charge.
SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
Yeah, I saw so much of that when I was meeting
families.
Like there there was never agood balance of parental
involvement and um allowingtheir like the the family's
daughter to speak and andaddress what she wanted in the
marriage, it was always like thegatekeepers were the parents in
almost every situation,especially with Daisy families.
(02:06):
It was always the parents first.
Yeah.
And if you don't meet theirexpectations, regardless of what
the girl wants, if you don'tmeet their expectations,
whatever it was, then you can'teven move on to the next step.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
Do you think the girls were like fine with that,
comfortable with that, or do youfeel like they were like
suppressed?
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
I feel like girls, at least the girls that I spoke
to, they were just allowing theparents to take control.
For whatever reason, I thinkeither some of them they were
just kind of raised that way,and other ways they just there
was just kind of a lack ofinitiative.
In some cases, there was uh theprincess mentality is like, oh
(02:49):
daddy's gonna take care of me,daddy's gonna find the guy for
me, mommy's gonna find the guyfor me, and uh they're gonna do
all the legwork and I just haveto show up for the wedding.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
You know, that's strange.
Like I would have assumed thatuh any like Muslim or any person
who grew up here in the West,they would have this like fairy
tale mentality.
I want to meet someone on my ownand fall in love and like
challenge the world, and notthat I want my parents to do the
job and take care of it, andI'll just show up to the
wedding.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
No, they want to have their cake and eat it too.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
How so?
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
They want to be pampered, be taken care of, and
all of those things, and at thesame time also have dad, mom and
dad find the person for them.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Okay, well, where's the fun in that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
The fun is that in that is that you don't have to
do any work.
You just have to show up andlook pretty.
SPEAKER_00 (03:35):
Interesting.
So, to any uh new listeners whodo not know about our
background, our stories, so ourfamilies, like you said, Zaid,
are very different.
I come from an Arab family.
I grew up in Palestine.
My parents speak mainly Arabic,they don't speak any English.
You come from a Daisy, from aPakistani family.
You the your parents don't speakany Arabic, and you grew up in
(03:58):
the West.
Yes, and even your family mostlygrew up in the West.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
For the most part, yeah.
At least your mom.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah.
So you see the levels ofdifferences like in terms of
culture, in terms of language,in terms of upbringing,
geographical location.
Exactly, they're completelydifferent.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Very different.
So the point is that, and thiscomes up a lot when uh when we
talk to people, uh, which is thelevel of family compatibility,
and that kind of happens in twoways.
Number one, the need to for theguy or the girl to be compatible
with the family that they'remarrying into, and the need for
the two families to becompatible also.
(04:38):
Yeah.
How much of that is important,and to what degree does that
play a role in the futuremarriage?
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
Okay, let's dive in.
SPEAKER_01 (04:44):
So, number one for me is privacy.
I would have a huge problem, andI think I feel like most people
would agree, if the in-laws orparents were very intrusive.
I don't think any marriage canflourish that way.
Yeah.
Right?
Ever every couple, of course,wants some degree of autonomy,
and then that becomes a biggerconcern if you're moving into
(05:06):
the the family's house.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Yeah, it becomes very difficult.
How to preserve privacy whenyou're living together 24-7.
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Yeah, like the last couple we matched, the girl
moved into the guy's house.
And she's she's very young,she's just 19.
Yeah.
And I was actually surprisedthat she was okay with that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
When we were asking her some questions about what
are you okay with, what are youlooking for, very flexible, and
the most I wouldn't say alarmingbut surprising part was that she
was okay with moving into theguy's house.
SPEAKER_00 (05:35):
And alhamdulillah, his parents turned out to be the
non-intrusive type.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
Well, yeah, so far, alhamdulillah looks like it's
going well.
Uh, the second thing that weshould bring up is
consultation/slash involvement.
How much because parents alwayslike to share their life
experience.
They want to say, I don't thinkthis is a good idea.
Even sometimes your mom does ita little bit here and there,
(05:59):
right?
Like she kind of just likethrows in comments.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Yeah.
Some of it, honestly, some ofthat life experience that
parents want to share is legit.
Like we have to get off our highhorse as if we know everything.
Yes.
And uh our parents is just sooutdated.
We have to be open to someadvice.
But uh yeah, there is adifference between advice and
dictating.
(06:25):
Of course, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Sometimes we have to take it with a grain of salt,
and sometimes we have to listen.
Yeah.
Uh alhamdulillah for my mom, shegives us a lot of autonomy.
Like there are moments where shedoes deep down disagree with
some of the decisions we'remaking, but she'll never give
her opinion, right?
You've seen it a few times.
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
You were telling me she's always saying this that's
between you two.
Like disagreements would happenin front of her, and uh, I'll
try like to get her to get on myside.
And she's like, That's betweenyou two.
Yeah.
Even you know what?
I told her once, like,inshallah, after the baby comes,
if you see me doing anythingwrong, if you have any advice
for me, please don't hold back,just share, just and I felt like
(07:05):
she wasn't even comfortable withthat.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Wow, really?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Okay, I guess that's a good thing.
I mean, I'll take it.
I'll definitely take it.
Alhamdulillah, we're veryblessed uh by the fact that we
don't live with our parents, ormy parents, or even with your
parents.
And in fact, I'd even go a stepfurther.
Like, even when I was living inyour parents' house for five
weeks when I visited Palestine,your parents weren't that like
overbearing or intrusive.
(07:30):
Um, they gave us our space.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
Yeah, but the thing with Arab uh people, with us
Arabs, is that like we convey orwe show our love in a different
way than you Daisies do.
Or at least maybe not allDaisies, but because you, your
mom, like your family grew up inthe West.
So you kind of have this likehybrid culture between Daisy and
Western.
(07:53):
So we show our love by caring,asking too much, uh like being
overprotective.
Uh that's why, for example, Ialways ask you, Are you tired?
Like I'm not like telling youlike you're not sure if it
irritates me.
Yeah, like I'm not saying you'reweak if you're tired, but this
is like me being like concernedabout you and stuff.
(08:14):
So we show it show it indifferent ways.
I remember, you know what?
I don't know if this is relevanthere or not, but just to show an
example of like how cultures canbe different, and especially
like when we later talk aboutinterracial marriages.
Like when I first moved here toCanada, and we started going to
your uh parents to have dinnerand stuff.
(08:35):
Subhanallah.
So like dinner would be served,and I would like sit and wait
for someone to serve me, putsome food in my plate, because
like I'm the new bride andstuff, and everyone would just
serve themselves and starteating.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Everybody for themselves, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
And I'm like, okay, should I reach for the food or
should I wait?
Like, is this because in ourculture, when you have a guest,
you serve the guest.
Yeah, yeah.
And I know I wasn't a guest, butstill I was.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
But our family is just like, whatever, we're
hungry, everybody just grabssome food.
So we're not very traditional inthat respect, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
And like even in the beginning, in the first, like, I
don't know, a few weeks, fewmonths, like I would eat just a
little bit.
Like, I would I feel like takinga second plate, but I'm like,
no, this is disrespectful.
And now I take thirds andfourths.
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Wow.
I actually remember when we wentout for breakfast.
So I think this was the first orsecond day you met my family.
We all went out for breakfast,and uh, I think it was uh like
Egg Harbor, it was someplace inin Chicago.
I remember.
And the waiter brought out thefood, the food's on the table,
and your food was sitting thereright in front of I think your
food came first, yeah, and youdidn't touch it because you were
(09:48):
waiting for everybody else toget their food.
And I was just like, dude, justeat, man.
Just like we're not that likeyou know, traditional and and
formal.
It's just like the foods infront of you, just eat.
This is how we do it.
Yes.
So I got I got that, but it wasjust something that stood out to
me.
So the point is that there arecertain things that uh you
(10:08):
should be mindful of.
I would say things that would bedeal breakers, things that
require some clarity, and thingsthat you should consider as a
compatibility factor to moveahead.
So let's categorize them.
Green flags, yellow flags, andred flags.
Sure.
Okay.
So what's one green flag foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Um the fact that the family doesn't interfere.
Like they give us our space tomake our own mistakes, our own
decisions.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Okay, but how would you determine that during the
courting phase?
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
For example, the guy and the girl disagree on
something.
The family doesn't start to tryto influence their son or their
daughter.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Okay, that's a good point.
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
So yeah, for example, for example, uh the
girl agrees or like suggests anamount of mahir that she wants.
The family respects that.
Maybe her family thinks it'slike a little bit low, but they
respect that.
They don't try to change hermind.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Okay, that's one example.
I think another example, andthis probably comes up a lot, is
uh discussions about the way thewedding is gonna go.
Yeah, that's a big one.
Like, are we gonna do it fancy?
Are we gonna do it s simply?
Are we gonna do it in the masjidor nice or like a five-star
hotel?
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
Is it segregated?
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Is it segregated?
Is there gonna be music?
Is there gonna be dancing?
And to what degree are theparents allowing the couple to
do it, or are the parentsdictating?
Now, of course, like at the endof the day, we can't overlook
something that marriage is notjust a union between two people,
it's a union between twofamilies.
So parents do have a say andthey have a right to say
something, but there areboundaries, and to what degree
(11:44):
are parents going to interfere?
And I would say for me, the mainfilter is religion.
Are they you know requiring youto do something that is not
fared for the marriage?
Right, like I don't know, havingan expensive suit or having an
expensive cake.
Expensive cake.
Like these are not required.
But are they making thatcompulsory?
(12:05):
I don't know if it's a dealbreaker, but it'd be a cause for
concern.
SPEAKER_00 (12:08):
You have no idea how many marriages, especially in
the Middle East, just brokemarriages to be broke just
because of uh disagreementsabout the wedding itself.
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.
Like the wedding invitations arealready sent, everyone's ready,
the the hall is booked,everything, but they like
disagree, the two familiesdisagree on something.
(12:29):
The girl's family wantssomething extra.
Or something, or the guy isbeing just too stingy, or
something like that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Yeah, that I don't know why people would be sending
out wedding invitations prior tothese discussions.
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
I don't know.
Or sometimes over maher.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
Like lots of people delay the maher discussion till
the end.
Yeah, yeah, we'll figure it outlater, don't worry.
Sometimes they delay it untilDanika day.
Oh well, don't worry, don'tworry, it'll happen.
SPEAKER_02 (12:57):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Yes.
And then that's a part.
And then while while whileDanikah is happening, all hell
breaks loose.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
Oh God, now now we want the house, now we want the
car as a mah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
Yeah.
So what happens is some familiesdo this on purpose because they
feel that, oh, at that momentwhen everyone's attending and
stuff, like he's not gonnadisagree.
It's messed up.
And some men do the opposite.
They suggest like a very umsmall number because they think
everyone's already there, no onethe family is not gonna object.
(13:32):
So it's just coming to the code.
Maybe, maybe it does, but maybenot here, maybe not in our
surrounding.
But it's just about like comingwith the right intention makes a
huge difference.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Um, what's another green flag?
SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
I would say that when the couple disagree, the
families don't try to just addfuel to the fire.
Yeah, I told you, you see?
I told you.
If he's like this right now, howis he gonna be after marriage or
something like that?
No, you guys are adults, youchose each other, you figure it
out on your own.
If you want our advice, we'llgive you our advice.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
Yeah.
Uh another one for me, which iswhich is big.
Uh, parents don't demand accessto every decision.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
Yeah, they don't they don't need you don't need
to tell them every littledecision you're making.
Now, of course, if you'rerelocating, you know, your you
know, big life-changingdecision.
Yeah, of course, you have toinvolve your parents, your
in-laws, and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
But not what we're cooking for dinner.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Oh, I'm buying a new car, like, oh my god, I gotta
tell my parents, right?
Or I'm buying a new TV, I gottatell my parents.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
Some parents are like, we're not gonna interfere,
but we just want to knoweverything.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Right, right.
Like it's such a sneaky way toput it.
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have
you on.
Here you'll find a safe space oflisteners who can understand
what you're going through.
Just shoot us an email with asummary of your story at info at
halalmatch.ca.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
So we talked about green flags.
Now, the on the flip side, redflags, deal breakers.
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
These are the these are the things that when you see
them, you should just run away.
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
Yeah, sirens are going off, the fire departments
coming.
Yeah, it's chaos.
So one example is yeah, this isa scary one.
Marriage is conditional onobedience.
Oh boy.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
Yeah, yes, and like sometimes parents would use like
religious uh words or religiousexpressions to instill this
fear.
Like, like by Islam, accordingto Islam, you're supposed to
obey me, and uh, if you don'tobey me, like you'll anger
Allah, Allah will be angry withyou, you have to do this, you
(15:51):
don't have to do that.
So this religious control, yeah,yeah, that's scary.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Or um I don't know, I'm just thinking of crazy
examples, like you're marryinginto a TJ family, and the
father-in-law expects you to goon jama'at with them for like 60
days, like that would be toomuch for and then if you don't,
they guilt you and make you feellike you're disobeying Allah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Or you're not worthy enough for their daughter.
Yeah, but you know, the biggestred red flag is disrespect.
When the parents disrespect thepotential spouse, and it's it's
normal.
Disrespect, it's not like itjust happened once, it was a
slip of a tongue.
No, it's normalized.
Like when there is disrespect,to me honestly, in any
relationship, whether it'sbetween spouses or friends or
(16:36):
whatever, when disrespect entersthe room, that's it.
There's no going back.
And again, I'm not talking abouta one tick-off time or thing.
SPEAKER_01 (16:46):
Yeah, that's that's definitely a red flag for me.
Yeah.
Because if you're witnessingthat in the potential family,
then what's to say it won'tcarry over into your
relationship.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
And another one that's like the flip side of
that is when there's disrespectin the family between the parent
and the adult child, not thepotential spouse, the adult
child.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
And it's normalized.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
And it's normalized.
Like if this is how they'retreating their son, or if this
is how the son is treating hisparents, then how do you expect
they're gonna treat you as astranger entering the family?
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah.
But you know, I have a question,something like I am battling
with.
Does this mean that we arejudging a person by their
family?
Like sometimes the family couldbe disrespectful, could be
awful.
But the the potential spousethemselves, they are a great
person and they are completelydifferent from their family.
SPEAKER_01 (17:39):
Yeah, so that's a good point.
Um, are we judging somebodybased on their family?
Yes and no, because you can'tchange the fact that people are
the product of theirenvironment.
But at the same time, if theyare if your circumstances are
such that you're going to beliving away from your family.
And because of that, the thefamilies won't be interfering.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
And also on top of that, if the potential spouse is
independent and can advocate foryou, they are not mommy's boy or
right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
That's another thing I I didn't bring up.
Maturity.
Yeah.
To what extent are is the girl,like for me, for example, I came
into so many circumstances wherethe girl just couldn't think for
herself.
She would be saying things whereI would say, so for example,
there was this one email, Imentioned this to you before.
I went to a matchmaking eventone time, and um after the
(18:31):
matchmaking event, the organizersent out a list of emails uh of
people that you spoke to.
So I followed up with one girland I said, you know, I felt
like we had a good conversation,I'd love to get to know you
more.
Um please let me know if youfeel the same way.
And the e she sent back anemail, and I saved this email
for years, for years, because itwas just one of those emails
(18:54):
that cemented this sentimentthat I was feeling for such a
long time.
Um, and then finally at onepoint I was decluttering my
inbox and I said, Okay, I'mmarried now, I need to really
go.
But it was just like one ofthose things I just held on to
for so long.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
So you were finally able to move on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
I was finally able to move on.
Yes, I was.
Alhamdulillah.
But the email basically saidthat um my parents are looking
for somebody like a doctor,engineer, or lawyer.
And uh unfortunately, I don'tthink um this will be a good
fit, or I don't feel like weshould move forward.
And what that email summarizedfor me was many things.
(19:31):
Number one, the superficialexpectations that I had been
witnessing for so many years.
But two, the the number of girlsthat just was simply too coward
too cowardice to say that whatthey want is somebody who earns
a certain amount and insteadhiding behind their parents.
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
What if she was uh like genuinely influenced by her
parents?
SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
Or third, yes.
Influenced by her parents, whichis even worse.
Yeah.
Right?
Because that did thatdemonstrates a maturity.
Yeah.
So I don't know how I went onthis tangent, but yes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
How could we end up here?
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
I don't know.
Uh the point is when we'retalking about family
compatibility, to what degree isthe girl or the guy able to
operate on his own to think forhimself, or is he just kind of a
an extension of his parents?
And saying whatever, you know,and we see this sometimes in on
phone calls too.
I remember a discovery call oncewhere oh, you know which one I'm
(20:33):
talking about.
Yes.
So I will never forget thisdiscovery call.
The girl was sitting on thelaptop, um, and we were asking
her the same series of questionsthat we ask everybody, so what
are you looking for in thematch?
Um, you know, roles,expectations, things like that.
And we could hear a voice in thebackground saying, Say this, say
that.
No, this is what you're lookingfor.
(20:54):
And then we asked her, Are youlooking for a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
And then she was she kept looking to the side.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Yes, and then she kept looking.
And we could tell.
And then finally I said, I'mlike, is that your mom in the
background?
And uh and she said, Yeah,that's I think she said, Yeah,
that's my mom.
And I was just like, I had toput it right then and there.
I was like, if we are to moveforward, we're going to learn
more about you and not what yourmom wants.
You're the one getting marriedand not your mother.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
And I don't, I can't remember exactly how the call
ended, but of course, we didn'ttake on the client.
But that was just anotherexample of girls, and sometimes
it happens with guys, but I'veseen it personally a lot with
girls that just can't think forthemselves, and it's a result of
families not allowing the girlsto grow and be independent.
For those of you guys that arelistening, guys and girls,
(21:38):
consider that a red flag.
Yes, it's a major red flag.
Yeah.
Because if you move forward witha person that's like that, I can
almost guarantee you that therewill be a lot of parental
involvement, a lot ofinterference.
Yeah, I I think that's a safeassumption to make, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Or there's there was anothersituation where the girl, like
it was a little bit different.
The girl was a super achiever,and her mom is also a super
achiever, and she was on thecall as well.
And like, for some reason, themom felt like she needs to speak
on her daughter's behalf becauselike she's such a super
achiever, she needs somebody tojust explain this phenomena of a
(22:17):
personality to us.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
The this wonderful achievement that she's made.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
And what she's looking for, and like and this
is a girl in her mid-20s, yeah,something like that.
And it was so formal, like themom and the daughter, like their
whole relationship.
So they're so formal.
It was like we are on this likebusiness meeting or something,
one praising the other, and likeI'm I'm sure you've heard of my
mother.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
She's a right, right?
That's what she said, like she'san accomplished doctor or
something.
Not really like no, and I don'tcare to know either.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
Yeah, family compatibility is is something.
SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
Yeah.
But you know what?
One thing is so we talked aboutour experience as being an
interracial couple.
Yes.
The thing is when uh the twofamilies are from the same
ethnicity, some things areassumed to be like uh a given,
or it's assumed that the twofamilies are on the same page in
terms of like in regards tospecific things.
(23:15):
Oh and then because of theseassumptions, conversations don't
happen.
Yes.
And then conflicts startshowing.
SPEAKER_01 (23:21):
Right.
So point being, same ethnicitydoes not mean same values.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
So it could be different communication style,
uh, different upbringing, um,just different values.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the advantage with aninterracial marriage is that it
forces you to talk about things.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Right.
So uh going back to that point,in the instance that you because
in most cases parents or peoplemarry into the same ethnicity,
generally speaking.
Yeah.
So don't assume boundaries.
Don't assume that you're goingto have a certain level of
autonomy in the relationship.
Don't assume that you know yourin-laws won't dictate decisions
(23:59):
regarding child uh upbringingand things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Or you know, a big one finances.
Or finances.
Like I've heard uh Ostaz Normanand other talk about these crazy
stories where like the guy,whatever he makes, at the end of
the month, he gives it to hisparents, and his parents give
him allowance to spend onhimself and his and his family.
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Yeah, I've heard of stuff like that in DC
communities.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
So that's crazy.
So exactly, don't assume, like,in a respectful way, like you
suggested right before westarted recording, once the
courting has gone, like I don'tknow, for some time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
There's a certain level of comfortability.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Exactly, between you and the family.
You can say something like,These are my expectations from
you as in-laws.
One, two, three, four.
What are your expectations fromme as a son-in-law or
daughter-in-law?
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
No, it doesn't have to come off as very formal.
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
Oh, you like find the right words, but make it, of
course, uh come off respectful.
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
Yeah, the point is that you're addressing
boundaries.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
And at the same time, you also are learning
about what they expect from you.
Yeah.
Not just what you expect fromthem.
SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
Yeah, just the important thing is just don't
assume things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Yeah.
I think as a good rule of thumb,is when how to distinguish
between is this a runaway firstsituation or is this a situation
where we can work it out?
Is that is the disagreementabout values or about styles?
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
Because styles can be discussed, we can come to an
agreement, but values that'swhen it becomes uh like a
critical point.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Yeah, so we've discussed values so many times
in previous episodes.
Values is what we always preachin our workshops.
So, as a reminder, values arethings that are a part of your
core that bring meaning to yourlife, things that you cannot
live without.
And so, as you said, values youcannot change, they are embedded
inside us.
SPEAKER_00 (25:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Styles, yes, you can change those things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Or you can work around them.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
You can work around them.
So, for example, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
No, I just remembered an incident.
So when my family visited us uhtwo years ago, it was right, or
three years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (26:03):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
Almost three years ago, yeah.
And it was your first experienceever barbecuing.
We were bargay barbecuing on thebalcony here, and my mom is like
the barbecue expert in ourfamily.
She's the one who grills.
My dad, all he has to do is justcome sit on the table, enjoy the
steaks while they're hot, andmaybe help cleaning up the
table.
But anyway, and it was yourfirst time.
(26:26):
You didn't know what the hellyou were doing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
I I figured it out eventually.
SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
My story, let me tell it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:31):
Oh god, whatever.
I wasn't doing that bad of ajob.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Well, the meat turned out burnt, but no, okay,
maybe one or two pieces.
No, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Every barbecue experience always has some
burned meat, almost generallyspeaking.
SPEAKER_00 (26:44):
My mom felt like she had to interfere because she's
an expert and she saw you doingit wrong.
And I remember I was in thekitchen working on salads and
dips and whatever, and you guyswere outside, and both of you
were Heba, tell her to stop.
And mom was like, He's doing itwrong, tell him to do it this
way.
And you guys were driving mecrazy.
You were driving me crazy.
(27:05):
And uh, like I believe at somepoint you like the argument got
a little bit heated orsomething, right?
But at the end of the day, Iwanted her off the balcony.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
So I could do this.
Like this was my project, evenif I'm doing it wrong, let me do
it wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
So that's it.
It's about a difference.
No, it's about difference instyles.
Yes.
Your style is this is like uhI'm a man, I need to do it
myself, I need to learn from mymistake.
Her style is I can show you howto do it better, right?
So, like this is not disrespect.
I don't think this isdisrespect, or maybe it was
(27:38):
borderline disrespect betweenyou and two.
At one point, yeah.
But that's what we're saying.
When it's a difference instyles, it's completely
different than difference invalues.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
Right.
The questions that probably arelurking in your mind are when
should I keep an open open mindand when should I put my foot
down?
And of course, that's why wewent through the deal breakers
and the green flags.
And of course, there's yellowflags too.
Yellow flags, as I mentioned,they are not necessarily deal
breakers, but things that mightbe cause for concern.
(28:11):
Um, but there's room for you toget some clarity on.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
Things that could be negotiated.
Yes.
Yeah, it's not an ultimatum.
So for example, one family couldexpect like weekly visits or
like twice a week visits, andthe other family expects, I
don't know, bi-weekly or notthat uh consistent.
And uh so here it's like notthat difficult to find a middle
ground and talk about thesethings and discuss them in open.
(28:38):
But don't leave things justburied and lurking until after
the wedding happens.
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
For me, a yellow flag, an example of a yellow
flag would be with regards toeducation.
So I'm very keen on Montessori.
I am a Montessori trainedteacher and I'm not too fond of
both the public school educationsystem as well as the Islamic
school curriculums that I seearound me.
So for me, I I would definitelytell my parents or my in-laws
(29:09):
that I would like to eitherhomeschool my kids or put them
in a private Montessori school.
And if your parents feel verystrongly about either Islamic
schools or public education, andthey start pressuring me, and
but they're not offering me anultimatum.
But no, just putting pressure onme saying, I think this is a
better idea, we're also aproduct of the public education
(29:32):
system, we turned out fine,right?
Whatever the reason might be.
If there's an ultimatum, that'sa deal breaker.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
Of course.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
Right?
But the fact that there's noultimatum and there is room for
discussion, I'd put I'd say,okay, that's probably a yellow
flag, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Or I guess like if they start toinfluence me, influence their
daughter to make you change yourmind.
That's a red flag.
That's a red flag.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
For sure.
So the questions that might belurking in your mind is when
should I keep an open mind?
When should I put my foot down?
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
When should I run away?
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
And I would say use these tools that we gave you.
What are good, you know, greenflags, yellow flags, red flags.
Are the things that the futurein-laws or the family that
you're marrying into, are thosethings values-based or are they
style-based?
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:18):
So take the time to distinguish between the two.
Um, of course, observe familydynamics.
SPEAKER_00 (30:24):
Observe patterns as well, and not promises.
Promises are good, but they tellyou intentions.
But if you observe patterns,they will tell you reality.
So it's true that you're notmarrying the family, you're
marrying the person, but yourmarriage operates within a
family.
It's not something to completelyignore family compatibility, and
(30:44):
it's not something to give 100%weight, like more than the
compatibility between you andthe potential spouse, because
that's the base.
But it's definitely something tokeep in mind and not overlook.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
Yeah, like I would say your family in general is
more culture-based.
But you you're not necessarily avery cultural person yourself.
Yeah.
In terms of the way you think,in terms of your values, your
expectations.
So if I was to judge you basedon what I saw in your family,
I'd be seeing you the wrong way.
(31:17):
Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
And similarly with me, I think, I don't know, do
you feel I'm different than howmy family generally operates and
thinks?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So going back to what you weresaying, yes, there is sometimes
the person you're marrying is areflection of the family, and
sometimes they're not.
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
Yeah.
You know, I'm glad you broughtthe topic of traditional,
because sometimes we misjudgetraditional as toxic or as
backwards.
The family could be traditional,but they could be very
non-intrusive.
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And sometimes we might judgethis whole uh compatibility
thing just based on a word ormisinterpret a question.
Like the mother could ask, Doyou know how to cook?
And suddenly the girl feels thatthe entire family is toxic, just
because like maybe she has adifferent intention.
Maybe she just wants to get toknow you.
So don't misinterpret any ordon't interpret any question,
(32:15):
any word, any behavior as thisis intrusive, this is toxic.
Like look at the bigger picture,look at the pattern.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Yeah, like how often is this being said?
I would say is it a consistentthing or not?
SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
And one more thing also to keep uh um some um eye
for is the family dynamicamongst themselves, how the
mother treats the father, howthe father treats the mother.
Are they respectful to eachother?
How the children, the adultchildren, which we mentioned
before, treat their parents, howthe parents treat the adult
children.
(32:48):
That says a lot about the familydynamics.
SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
Yeah.
An important thing to note isthat there is no perfect person,
there is no perfect family.
Right?
There you're not you're notgonna find the perfect family.
Yeah.
What you should be looking foris respect, boundaries, and uh,
you know, sometimes addressingboundaries or creating
boundaries where you know yourmarriage can flourish, it can
(33:14):
breathe, and hopefully belong-lasting.
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
Yeah, inshallah.
And if you end up being bestfriends with your mother-in-law
and your father-in-law, that'seven better.
If your family and his familyend up being best friends, like
that's a blessing from Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala.
But don't come with theexpectation that this is the
norm.
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
Yeah.
Um there was an episode we did afew months back uh with Sami and
Rah um, sorry, Summer and Rami.
And Rami always talked about uhhow he became best friends with
his father-in-law.
Yeah, even though in thebeginning he didn't like like he
became closer than I think hisfather's own sons.
Yeah.
And they would watch sportsgames together and just have a
(33:53):
blast.
SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
Subhanallah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:54):
So inshallah, that could be the relationship for
you guys too.
SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Inshallah, keep an open mind.
Um, pray uh for tafik from Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala.
Pray your istikhara, don'tunderestimate the power of
stikhara.
And uh inshaAllah, you end upwith the right family.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
Inshallah.
Until next time.
Assalamu alaikum.
I'm Hibah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
And I'm Zayd.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah.
Asalaamu alaikum, everyone.
Welcome back to another episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:19):
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
We owe you an apology, guys.
We could not uh release anepisode last week.
There were some unforeseencircumstances that prevented us.
Um we try to stay as committedand consistent as possible.
Um but last week was just one ofthose off weeks.
Um but moving forward, we willdefinitely try to stay focused
and release an episode everyweek.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Inshallah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Inshallah.
So our families are verydifferent in multiple ways, not
just because of the fact that weare an interracial couple, um,
but even in terms of religionvalues, to an extent, I feel
like there's a lot ofdifferences.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
I think in terms of religion, they're almost on the
same wave.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Yeah, I would yeah, actually, you're right about the
religion part.
Um, but on other things I feelthere is a difference.
SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
How much of a factor was family compatibility to you
when we were talking?
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
Uh honestly, I was so happy that they are
different.
Really?
Yes.
Because just the fact that theycan't communicate created more
room for us to just be ourselvesand uh just like dictate
whatever we want in ourmarriage.
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now that I think about that,that was a blessing.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Like, I'm not saying that if they could communicate,
then our marriage will will notwork, but it just made it easier
for us.
Like we were the ones in charge.
SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
Yeah, I saw so much of that when I was meeting
families.
Like there there was never agood balance of parental
involvement and um allowingtheir like the the family's
daughter to speak and andaddress what she wanted in the
marriage, it was always like thegatekeepers were the parents in
almost every situation,especially with Daisy families.
(02:06):
It was always the parents first.
Yeah.
And if you don't meet theirexpectations, regardless of what
the girl wants, if you don'tmeet their expectations,
whatever it was, then you can'teven move on to the next step.
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
Do you think the girls were like fine with that,
comfortable with that, or do youfeel like they were like
suppressed?
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
I feel like girls, at least the girls that I spoke
to, they were just allowing theparents to take control.
For whatever reason, I thinkeither some of them they were
just kind of raised that way,and other ways they just there
was just kind of a lack ofinitiative.
In some cases, there was uh theprincess mentality is like, oh
(02:49):
daddy's gonna take care of me,daddy's gonna find the guy for
me, mommy's gonna find the guyfor me, and uh they're gonna do
all the legwork and I just haveto show up for the wedding.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
You know, that's strange.
Like I would have assumed thatuh any like Muslim or any person
who grew up here in the West,they would have this like fairy
tale mentality.
I want to meet someone on my ownand fall in love and like
challenge the world, and notthat I want my parents to do the
job and take care of it, andI'll just show up to the
wedding.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
No, they want to have their cake and eat it too.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
How so?
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
They want to be pampered, be taken care of, and
all of those things, and at thesame time also have dad, mom and
dad find the person for them.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Okay, well, where's the fun in that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
The fun is that in that is that you don't have to
do any work.
You just have to show up andlook pretty.
SPEAKER_00 (03:35):
Interesting.
So, to any uh new listeners whodo not know about our
background, our stories, so ourfamilies, like you said, Zaid,
are very different.
I come from an Arab family.
I grew up in Palestine.
My parents speak mainly Arabic,they don't speak any English.
You come from a Daisy, from aPakistani family.
You the your parents don't speakany Arabic, and you grew up in
(03:58):
the West.
Yes, and even your family mostlygrew up in the West.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
For the most part, yeah.
At least your mom.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah.
So you see the levels ofdifferences like in terms of
culture, in terms of language,in terms of upbringing,
geographical location.
Exactly, they're completelydifferent.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Very different.
So the point is that, and thiscomes up a lot when uh when we
talk to people, uh, which is thelevel of family compatibility,
and that kind of happens in twoways.
Number one, the need to for theguy or the girl to be compatible
with the family that they'remarrying into, and the need for
the two families to becompatible also.
(04:38):
Yeah.
How much of that is important,and to what degree does that
play a role in the futuremarriage?
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
Okay, let's dive in.
SPEAKER_01 (04:44):
So, number one for me is privacy.
I would have a huge problem, andI think I feel like most people
would agree, if the in-laws orparents were very intrusive.
I don't think any marriage canflourish that way.
Yeah.
Right?
Ever every couple, of course,wants some degree of autonomy,
and then that becomes a biggerconcern if you're moving into
(05:06):
the the family's house.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Yeah, it becomes very difficult.
How to preserve privacy whenyou're living together 24-7.
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Yeah, like the last couple we matched, the girl
moved into the guy's house.
And she's she's very young,she's just 19.
Yeah.
And I was actually surprisedthat she was okay with that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
When we were asking her some questions about what
are you okay with, what are youlooking for, very flexible, and
the most I wouldn't say alarmingbut surprising part was that she
was okay with moving into theguy's house.
SPEAKER_00 (05:35):
And alhamdulillah, his parents turned out to be the
non-intrusive type.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
Well, yeah, so far, alhamdulillah looks like it's
going well.
Uh, the second thing that weshould bring up is
consultation/slash involvement.
How much because parents alwayslike to share their life
experience.
They want to say, I don't thinkthis is a good idea.
Even sometimes your mom does ita little bit here and there,
(05:59):
right?
Like she kind of just likethrows in comments.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Yeah.
Some of it, honestly, some ofthat life experience that
parents want to share is legit.
Like we have to get off our highhorse as if we know everything.
Yes.
And uh our parents is just sooutdated.
We have to be open to someadvice.
But uh yeah, there is adifference between advice and
dictating.
(06:25):
Of course, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Sometimes we have to take it with a grain of salt,
and sometimes we have to listen.
Yeah.
Uh alhamdulillah for my mom, shegives us a lot of autonomy.
Like there are moments where shedoes deep down disagree with
some of the decisions we'remaking, but she'll never give
her opinion, right?
You've seen it a few times.
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
You were telling me she's always saying this that's
between you two.
Like disagreements would happenin front of her, and uh, I'll
try like to get her to get on myside.
And she's like, That's betweenyou two.
Yeah.
Even you know what?
I told her once, like,inshallah, after the baby comes,
if you see me doing anythingwrong, if you have any advice
for me, please don't hold back,just share, just and I felt like
(07:05):
she wasn't even comfortable withthat.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Wow, really?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Okay, I guess that's a good thing.
I mean, I'll take it.
I'll definitely take it.
Alhamdulillah, we're veryblessed uh by the fact that we
don't live with our parents, ormy parents, or even with your
parents.
And in fact, I'd even go a stepfurther.
Like, even when I was living inyour parents' house for five
weeks when I visited Palestine,your parents weren't that like
overbearing or intrusive.
(07:30):
Um, they gave us our space.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
Yeah, but the thing with Arab uh people, with us
Arabs, is that like we convey orwe show our love in a different
way than you Daisies do.
Or at least maybe not allDaisies, but because you, your
mom, like your family grew up inthe West.
So you kind of have this likehybrid culture between Daisy and
Western.
(07:53):
So we show our love by caring,asking too much, uh like being
overprotective.
Uh that's why, for example, Ialways ask you, Are you tired?
Like I'm not like telling youlike you're not sure if it
irritates me.
Yeah, like I'm not saying you'reweak if you're tired, but this
is like me being like concernedabout you and stuff.
(08:14):
So we show it show it indifferent ways.
I remember, you know what?
I don't know if this is relevanthere or not, but just to show an
example of like how cultures canbe different, and especially
like when we later talk aboutinterracial marriages.
Like when I first moved here toCanada, and we started going to
your uh parents to have dinnerand stuff.
(08:35):
Subhanallah.
So like dinner would be served,and I would like sit and wait
for someone to serve me, putsome food in my plate, because
like I'm the new bride andstuff, and everyone would just
serve themselves and starteating.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Everybody for themselves, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
And I'm like, okay, should I reach for the food or
should I wait?
Like, is this because in ourculture, when you have a guest,
you serve the guest.
Yeah, yeah.
And I know I wasn't a guest, butstill I was.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
But our family is just like, whatever, we're
hungry, everybody just grabssome food.
So we're not very traditional inthat respect, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
And like even in the beginning, in the first, like, I
don't know, a few weeks, fewmonths, like I would eat just a
little bit.
Like, I would I feel like takinga second plate, but I'm like,
no, this is disrespectful.
And now I take thirds andfourths.
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Wow.
I actually remember when we wentout for breakfast.
So I think this was the first orsecond day you met my family.
We all went out for breakfast,and uh, I think it was uh like
Egg Harbor, it was someplace inin Chicago.
I remember.
And the waiter brought out thefood, the food's on the table,
and your food was sitting thereright in front of I think your
food came first, yeah, and youdidn't touch it because you were
(09:48):
waiting for everybody else toget their food.
And I was just like, dude, justeat, man.
Just like we're not that likeyou know, traditional and and
formal.
It's just like the foods infront of you, just eat.
This is how we do it.
Yes.
So I got I got that, but it wasjust something that stood out to
me.
So the point is that there arecertain things that uh you
(10:08):
should be mindful of.
I would say things that would bedeal breakers, things that
require some clarity, and thingsthat you should consider as a
compatibility factor to moveahead.
So let's categorize them.
Green flags, yellow flags, andred flags.
Sure.
Okay.
So what's one green flag foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Um the fact that the family doesn't interfere.
Like they give us our space tomake our own mistakes, our own
decisions.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Okay, but how would you determine that during the
courting phase?
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
For example, the guy and the girl disagree on
something.
The family doesn't start to tryto influence their son or their
daughter.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Okay, that's a good point.
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
So yeah, for example, for example, uh the
girl agrees or like suggests anamount of mahir that she wants.
The family respects that.
Maybe her family thinks it'slike a little bit low, but they
respect that.
They don't try to change hermind.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Okay, that's one example.
I think another example, andthis probably comes up a lot, is
uh discussions about the way thewedding is gonna go.
Yeah, that's a big one.
Like, are we gonna do it fancy?
Are we gonna do it s simply?
Are we gonna do it in the masjidor nice or like a five-star
hotel?
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
Is it segregated?
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Is it segregated?
Is there gonna be music?
Is there gonna be dancing?
And to what degree are theparents allowing the couple to
do it, or are the parentsdictating?
Now, of course, like at the endof the day, we can't overlook
something that marriage is notjust a union between two people,
it's a union between twofamilies.
So parents do have a say andthey have a right to say
something, but there areboundaries, and to what degree
(11:44):
are parents going to interfere?
And I would say for me, the mainfilter is religion.
Are they you know requiring youto do something that is not
fared for the marriage?
Right, like I don't know, havingan expensive suit or having an
expensive cake.
Expensive cake.
Like these are not required.
But are they making thatcompulsory?
(12:05):
I don't know if it's a dealbreaker, but it'd be a cause for
concern.
SPEAKER_00 (12:08):
You have no idea how many marriages, especially in
the Middle East, just brokemarriages to be broke just
because of uh disagreementsabout the wedding itself.
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.
Like the wedding invitations arealready sent, everyone's ready,
the the hall is booked,everything, but they like
disagree, the two familiesdisagree on something.
(12:29):
The girl's family wantssomething extra.
Or something, or the guy isbeing just too stingy, or
something like that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Yeah, that I don't know why people would be sending
out wedding invitations prior tothese discussions.
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
I don't know.
Or sometimes over maher.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
Like lots of people delay the maher discussion till
the end.
Yeah, yeah, we'll figure it outlater, don't worry.
Sometimes they delay it untilDanika day.
Oh well, don't worry, don'tworry, it'll happen.
SPEAKER_02 (12:57):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Yes.
And then that's a part.
And then while while whileDanikah is happening, all hell
breaks loose.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
Oh God, now now we want the house, now we want the
car as a mah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
Yeah.
So what happens is some familiesdo this on purpose because they
feel that, oh, at that momentwhen everyone's attending and
stuff, like he's not gonnadisagree.
It's messed up.
And some men do the opposite.
They suggest like a very umsmall number because they think
everyone's already there, no onethe family is not gonna object.
(13:32):
So it's just coming to the code.
Maybe, maybe it does, but maybenot here, maybe not in our
surrounding.
But it's just about like comingwith the right intention makes a
huge difference.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Um, what's another green flag?
SPEAKER_00 (13:50):
I would say that when the couple disagree, the
families don't try to just addfuel to the fire.
Yeah, I told you, you see?
I told you.
If he's like this right now, howis he gonna be after marriage or
something like that?
No, you guys are adults, youchose each other, you figure it
out on your own.
If you want our advice, we'llgive you our advice.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
Yeah.
Uh another one for me, which iswhich is big.
Uh, parents don't demand accessto every decision.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
Yeah, they don't they don't need you don't need
to tell them every littledecision you're making.
Now, of course, if you'rerelocating, you know, your you
know, big life-changingdecision.
Yeah, of course, you have toinvolve your parents, your
in-laws, and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
But not what we're cooking for dinner.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Oh, I'm buying a new car, like, oh my god, I gotta
tell my parents, right?
Or I'm buying a new TV, I gottatell my parents.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
Some parents are like, we're not gonna interfere,
but we just want to knoweverything.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Right, right.
Like it's such a sneaky way toput it.
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have
you on.
Here you'll find a safe space oflisteners who can understand
what you're going through.
Just shoot us an email with asummary of your story at info at
halalmatch.ca.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
So we talked about green flags.
Now, the on the flip side, redflags, deal breakers.
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
These are the these are the things that when you see
them, you should just run away.
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
Yeah, sirens are going off, the fire departments
coming.
Yeah, it's chaos.
So one example is yeah, this isa scary one.
Marriage is conditional onobedience.
Oh boy.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
Yeah, yes, and like sometimes parents would use like
religious uh words or religiousexpressions to instill this
fear.
Like, like by Islam, accordingto Islam, you're supposed to
obey me, and uh, if you don'tobey me, like you'll anger
Allah, Allah will be angry withyou, you have to do this, you
(15:51):
don't have to do that.
So this religious control, yeah,yeah, that's scary.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Or um I don't know, I'm just thinking of crazy
examples, like you're marryinginto a TJ family, and the
father-in-law expects you to goon jama'at with them for like 60
days, like that would be toomuch for and then if you don't,
they guilt you and make you feellike you're disobeying Allah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Or you're not worthy enough for their daughter.
Yeah, but you know, the biggestred red flag is disrespect.
When the parents disrespect thepotential spouse, and it's it's
normal.
Disrespect, it's not like itjust happened once, it was a
slip of a tongue.
No, it's normalized.
Like when there is disrespect,to me honestly, in any
relationship, whether it'sbetween spouses or friends or
(16:36):
whatever, when disrespect entersthe room, that's it.
There's no going back.
And again, I'm not talking abouta one tick-off time or thing.
SPEAKER_01 (16:46):
Yeah, that's that's definitely a red flag for me.
Yeah.
Because if you're witnessingthat in the potential family,
then what's to say it won'tcarry over into your
relationship.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
And another one that's like the flip side of
that is when there's disrespectin the family between the parent
and the adult child, not thepotential spouse, the adult
child.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
And it's normalized.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
And it's normalized.
Like if this is how they'retreating their son, or if this
is how the son is treating hisparents, then how do you expect
they're gonna treat you as astranger entering the family?
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah.
But you know, I have a question,something like I am battling
with.
Does this mean that we arejudging a person by their
family?
Like sometimes the family couldbe disrespectful, could be
awful.
But the the potential spousethemselves, they are a great
person and they are completelydifferent from their family.
SPEAKER_01 (17:39):
Yeah, so that's a good point.
Um, are we judging somebodybased on their family?
Yes and no, because you can'tchange the fact that people are
the product of theirenvironment.
But at the same time, if theyare if your circumstances are
such that you're going to beliving away from your family.
And because of that, the thefamilies won't be interfering.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
And also on top of that, if the potential spouse is
independent and can advocate foryou, they are not mommy's boy or
right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
That's another thing I I didn't bring up.
Maturity.
Yeah.
To what extent are is the girl,like for me, for example, I came
into so many circumstances wherethe girl just couldn't think for
herself.
She would be saying things whereI would say, so for example,
there was this one email, Imentioned this to you before.
I went to a matchmaking eventone time, and um after the
(18:31):
matchmaking event, the organizersent out a list of emails uh of
people that you spoke to.
So I followed up with one girland I said, you know, I felt
like we had a good conversation,I'd love to get to know you
more.
Um please let me know if youfeel the same way.
And the e she sent back anemail, and I saved this email
for years, for years, because itwas just one of those emails
(18:54):
that cemented this sentimentthat I was feeling for such a
long time.
Um, and then finally at onepoint I was decluttering my
inbox and I said, Okay, I'mmarried now, I need to really
go.
But it was just like one ofthose things I just held on to
for so long.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
So you were finally able to move on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
I was finally able to move on.
Yes, I was.
Alhamdulillah.
But the email basically saidthat um my parents are looking
for somebody like a doctor,engineer, or lawyer.
And uh unfortunately, I don'tthink um this will be a good
fit, or I don't feel like weshould move forward.
And what that email summarizedfor me was many things.
(19:31):
Number one, the superficialexpectations that I had been
witnessing for so many years.
But two, the the number of girlsthat just was simply too coward
too cowardice to say that whatthey want is somebody who earns
a certain amount and insteadhiding behind their parents.
SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
What if she was uh like genuinely influenced by her
parents?
SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
Or third, yes.
Influenced by her parents, whichis even worse.
Yeah.
Right?
Because that did thatdemonstrates a maturity.
Yeah.
So I don't know how I went onthis tangent, but yes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
How could we end up here?
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
I don't know.
Uh the point is when we'retalking about family
compatibility, to what degree isthe girl or the guy able to
operate on his own to think forhimself, or is he just kind of a
an extension of his parents?
And saying whatever, you know,and we see this sometimes in on
phone calls too.
I remember a discovery call oncewhere oh, you know which one I'm
(20:33):
talking about.
Yes.
So I will never forget thisdiscovery call.
The girl was sitting on thelaptop, um, and we were asking
her the same series of questionsthat we ask everybody, so what
are you looking for in thematch?
Um, you know, roles,expectations, things like that.
And we could hear a voice in thebackground saying, Say this, say
that.
No, this is what you're lookingfor.
(20:54):
And then we asked her, Are youlooking for a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
And then she was she kept looking to the side.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Yes, and then she kept looking.
And we could tell.
And then finally I said, I'mlike, is that your mom in the
background?
And uh and she said, Yeah,that's I think she said, Yeah,
that's my mom.
And I was just like, I had toput it right then and there.
I was like, if we are to moveforward, we're going to learn
more about you and not what yourmom wants.
You're the one getting marriedand not your mother.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
And I don't, I can't remember exactly how the call
ended, but of course, we didn'ttake on the client.
But that was just anotherexample of girls, and sometimes
it happens with guys, but I'veseen it personally a lot with
girls that just can't think forthemselves, and it's a result of
families not allowing the girlsto grow and be independent.
For those of you guys that arelistening, guys and girls,
(21:38):
consider that a red flag.
Yes, it's a major red flag.
Yeah.
Because if you move forward witha person that's like that, I can
almost guarantee you that therewill be a lot of parental
involvement, a lot ofinterference.
Yeah, I I think that's a safeassumption to make, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Or there's there was anothersituation where the girl, like
it was a little bit different.
The girl was a super achiever,and her mom is also a super
achiever, and she was on thecall as well.
And like, for some reason, themom felt like she needs to speak
on her daughter's behalf becauselike she's such a super
achiever, she needs somebody tojust explain this phenomena of a
(22:17):
personality to us.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
The this wonderful achievement that she's made.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
And what she's looking for, and like and this
is a girl in her mid-20s, yeah,something like that.
And it was so formal, like themom and the daughter, like their
whole relationship.
So they're so formal.
It was like we are on this likebusiness meeting or something,
one praising the other, and likeI'm I'm sure you've heard of my
mother.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
She's a right, right?
That's what she said, like she'san accomplished doctor or
something.
Not really like no, and I don'tcare to know either.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
Yeah, family compatibility is is something.
SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
Yeah.
But you know what?
One thing is so we talked aboutour experience as being an
interracial couple.
Yes.
The thing is when uh the twofamilies are from the same
ethnicity, some things areassumed to be like uh a given,
or it's assumed that the twofamilies are on the same page in
terms of like in regards tospecific things.
(23:15):
Oh and then because of theseassumptions, conversations don't
happen.
Yes.
And then conflicts startshowing.
SPEAKER_01 (23:21):
Right.
So point being, same ethnicitydoes not mean same values.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
So it could be different communication style,
uh, different upbringing, um,just different values.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the advantage with aninterracial marriage is that it
forces you to talk about things.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Right.
So uh going back to that point,in the instance that you because
in most cases parents or peoplemarry into the same ethnicity,
generally speaking.
Yeah.
So don't assume boundaries.
Don't assume that you're goingto have a certain level of
autonomy in the relationship.
Don't assume that you know yourin-laws won't dictate decisions
(23:59):
regarding child uh upbringingand things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Or you know, a big one finances.
Or finances.
Like I've heard uh Ostaz Normanand other talk about these crazy
stories where like the guy,whatever he makes, at the end of
the month, he gives it to hisparents, and his parents give
him allowance to spend onhimself and his and his family.
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Yeah, I've heard of stuff like that in DC
communities.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
So that's crazy.
So exactly, don't assume, like,in a respectful way, like you
suggested right before westarted recording, once the
courting has gone, like I don'tknow, for some time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
There's a certain level of comfortability.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Exactly, between you and the family.
You can say something like,These are my expectations from
you as in-laws.
One, two, three, four.
What are your expectations fromme as a son-in-law or
daughter-in-law?
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
No, it doesn't have to come off as very formal.
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
Oh, you like find the right words, but make it, of
course, uh come off respectful.
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
Yeah, the point is that you're addressing
boundaries.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
And at the same time, you also are learning
about what they expect from you.
Yeah.
Not just what you expect fromthem.
SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
Yeah, just the important thing is just don't
assume things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Yeah.
I think as a good rule of thumb,is when how to distinguish
between is this a runaway firstsituation or is this a situation
where we can work it out?
Is that is the disagreementabout values or about styles?
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
Because styles can be discussed, we can come to an
agreement, but values that'swhen it becomes uh like a
critical point.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Yeah, so we've discussed values so many times
in previous episodes.
Values is what we always preachin our workshops.
So, as a reminder, values arethings that are a part of your
core that bring meaning to yourlife, things that you cannot
live without.
And so, as you said, values youcannot change, they are embedded
inside us.
SPEAKER_00 (25:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Styles, yes, you can change those things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Or you can work around them.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
You can work around them.
So, for example, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
No, I just remembered an incident.
So when my family visited us uhtwo years ago, it was right, or
three years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (26:03):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
Almost three years ago, yeah.
And it was your first experienceever barbecuing.
We were bargay barbecuing on thebalcony here, and my mom is like
the barbecue expert in ourfamily.
She's the one who grills.
My dad, all he has to do is justcome sit on the table, enjoy the
steaks while they're hot, andmaybe help cleaning up the
table.
But anyway, and it was yourfirst time.
(26:26):
You didn't know what the hellyou were doing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
I I figured it out eventually.
SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
My story, let me tell it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:31):
Oh god, whatever.
I wasn't doing that bad of ajob.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Well, the meat turned out burnt, but no, okay,
maybe one or two pieces.
No, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Every barbecue experience always has some
burned meat, almost generallyspeaking.
SPEAKER_00 (26:44):
My mom felt like she had to interfere because she's
an expert and she saw you doingit wrong.
And I remember I was in thekitchen working on salads and
dips and whatever, and you guyswere outside, and both of you
were Heba, tell her to stop.
And mom was like, He's doing itwrong, tell him to do it this
way.
And you guys were driving mecrazy.
You were driving me crazy.
(27:05):
And uh, like I believe at somepoint you like the argument got
a little bit heated orsomething, right?
But at the end of the day, Iwanted her off the balcony.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
So I could do this.
Like this was my project, evenif I'm doing it wrong, let me do
it wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
So that's it.
It's about a difference.
No, it's about difference instyles.
Yes.
Your style is this is like uhI'm a man, I need to do it
myself, I need to learn from mymistake.
Her style is I can show you howto do it better, right?
So, like this is not disrespect.
I don't think this isdisrespect, or maybe it was
(27:38):
borderline disrespect betweenyou and two.
At one point, yeah.
But that's what we're saying.
When it's a difference instyles, it's completely
different than difference invalues.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
Right.
The questions that probably arelurking in your mind are when
should I keep an open open mindand when should I put my foot
down?
And of course, that's why wewent through the deal breakers
and the green flags.
And of course, there's yellowflags too.
Yellow flags, as I mentioned,they are not necessarily deal
breakers, but things that mightbe cause for concern.
(28:11):
Um, but there's room for you toget some clarity on.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
Things that could be negotiated.
Yes.
Yeah, it's not an ultimatum.
So for example, one family couldexpect like weekly visits or
like twice a week visits, andthe other family expects, I
don't know, bi-weekly or notthat uh consistent.
And uh so here it's like notthat difficult to find a middle
ground and talk about thesethings and discuss them in open.
(28:38):
But don't leave things justburied and lurking until after
the wedding happens.
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
For me, a yellow flag, an example of a yellow
flag would be with regards toeducation.
So I'm very keen on Montessori.
I am a Montessori trainedteacher and I'm not too fond of
both the public school educationsystem as well as the Islamic
school curriculums that I seearound me.
So for me, I I would definitelytell my parents or my in-laws
(29:09):
that I would like to eitherhomeschool my kids or put them
in a private Montessori school.
And if your parents feel verystrongly about either Islamic
schools or public education, andthey start pressuring me, and
but they're not offering me anultimatum.
But no, just putting pressure onme saying, I think this is a
better idea, we're also aproduct of the public education
(29:32):
system, we turned out fine,right?
Whatever the reason might be.
If there's an ultimatum, that'sa deal breaker.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
Of course.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
Right?
But the fact that there's noultimatum and there is room for
discussion, I'd put I'd say,okay, that's probably a yellow
flag, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Or I guess like if they start toinfluence me, influence their
daughter to make you change yourmind.
That's a red flag.
That's a red flag.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
For sure.
So the questions that might belurking in your mind is when
should I keep an open mind?
When should I put my foot down?
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
When should I run away?
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
And I would say use these tools that we gave you.
What are good, you know, greenflags, yellow flags, red flags.
Are the things that the futurein-laws or the family that
you're marrying into, are thosethings values-based or are they
style-based?
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:18):
So take the time to distinguish between the two.
Um, of course, observe familydynamics.
SPEAKER_00 (30:24):
Observe patterns as well, and not promises.
Promises are good, but they tellyou intentions.
But if you observe patterns,they will tell you reality.
So it's true that you're notmarrying the family, you're
marrying the person, but yourmarriage operates within a
family.
It's not something to completelyignore family compatibility, and
(30:44):
it's not something to give 100%weight, like more than the
compatibility between you andthe potential spouse, because
that's the base.
But it's definitely something tokeep in mind and not overlook.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
Yeah, like I would say your family in general is
more culture-based.
But you you're not necessarily avery cultural person yourself.
Yeah.
In terms of the way you think,in terms of your values, your
expectations.
So if I was to judge you basedon what I saw in your family,
I'd be seeing you the wrong way.
(31:17):
Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
And similarly with me, I think, I don't know, do
you feel I'm different than howmy family generally operates and
thinks?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So going back to what you weresaying, yes, there is sometimes
the person you're marrying is areflection of the family, and
sometimes they're not.
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
Yeah.
You know, I'm glad you broughtthe topic of traditional,
because sometimes we misjudgetraditional as toxic or as
backwards.
The family could be traditional,but they could be very
non-intrusive.
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And sometimes we might judgethis whole uh compatibility
thing just based on a word ormisinterpret a question.
Like the mother could ask, Doyou know how to cook?
And suddenly the girl feels thatthe entire family is toxic, just
because like maybe she has adifferent intention.
Maybe she just wants to get toknow you.
So don't misinterpret any ordon't interpret any question,
(32:15):
any word, any behavior as thisis intrusive, this is toxic.
Like look at the bigger picture,look at the pattern.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Yeah, like how often is this being said?
I would say is it a consistentthing or not?
SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
And one more thing also to keep uh um some um eye
for is the family dynamicamongst themselves, how the
mother treats the father, howthe father treats the mother.
Are they respectful to eachother?
How the children, the adultchildren, which we mentioned
before, treat their parents, howthe parents treat the adult
children.
(32:48):
That says a lot about the familydynamics.
SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
Yeah.
An important thing to note isthat there is no perfect person,
there is no perfect family.
Right?
There you're not you're notgonna find the perfect family.
Yeah.
What you should be looking foris respect, boundaries, and uh,
you know, sometimes addressingboundaries or creating
boundaries where you know yourmarriage can flourish, it can
(33:14):
breathe, and hopefully belong-lasting.
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
Yeah, inshallah.
And if you end up being bestfriends with your mother-in-law
and your father-in-law, that'seven better.
If your family and his familyend up being best friends, like
that's a blessing from Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala.
But don't come with theexpectation that this is the
norm.
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
Yeah.
Um there was an episode we did afew months back uh with Sami and
Rah um, sorry, Summer and Rami.
And Rami always talked about uhhow he became best friends with
his father-in-law.
Yeah, even though in thebeginning he didn't like like he
became closer than I think hisfather's own sons.
Yeah.
And they would watch sportsgames together and just have a
(33:53):
blast.
SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
Subhanallah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:54):
So inshallah, that could be the relationship for
you guys too.
SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Inshallah, keep an open mind.
Um, pray uh for tafik from Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala.
Pray your istikhara, don'tunderestimate the power of
stikhara.
And uh inshaAllah, you end upwith the right family.
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
Inshallah.
Until next time.
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