June 6, 2025 • 55 mins
Money talks before marriage don’t have to be cringey, they’re actually a must. We brought in Jesse Reitberger, an Islamic finance expert and founder of Canadian Islamic Wealth, to break down why it’s not about the salary number, but how that money’s made. Spoiler: halal income beats a fat paycheck every time.
Jesse drops gems like the $10K question, halal mortgage hacks, and why men need to own their provider role while recognizing the reality of dual incomes today. Plus, his top tip? Start saving now, even $25 a month can seriously change the game. Whether you’re single, engaged, or just curious, this episode is packed with straight talk and smart advice.
Get in touch with Jesse at: https://manzil.ca/wealth
jesse@manzilwealth.ca
Got a dilemma or story? The Single Muslim Hotline is here for you! We’ll play your anonymous messages in future episodes and offer real talk. Drop us a voice note 👇🏻
https://www.speakpipe.com/DiaryOfAMatchmaker
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you take one thing away from this.
The money conversation isimportant.
How much they're making isimportant, right, but if they're
not making it in a halal way,it doesn't matter, because your
life is going to suck.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So let's dive in Bismillah.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Assalamu alaikum everyone.
Welcome to another episode.
My name is Hiba and on theother mic is my husband and
co-host, zaid.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Okay, guys.
So I'm going to tell you asecret.
When Zaid and I were talkingand getting to know each other,
I did not ask him how much hewas making.
Now, was that dumb, was thatreckless, was that romantic?
I really don't know.
But Alhamdulillah, it workedout and today, actually, we are
diving into this conversationthat a lot of people feel
(01:01):
uncomfortable to have, which ismoney.
A lot of people feeluncomfortable to have, which is
money?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yep, because in the real world, obviously, love is
more than just sharing commonplaylists.
It's about figuring things outbills, budgeting, whether or not
your future spouse thinks acredit card is free money.
Today, alhamdulillah, we'rejoined by somebody who actually
knows what he's talking about,Jesse Reitberger.
He's an expert in Islamicfinance in Canada.
(01:26):
He converted to Islam in 2014and took a deep dive into
Islamic finance, earningcertifications from the Ethica
Institute to become both acertified and advanced Islamic
finance executive.
He launched Canadian IslamicWealth in 2019 to fill a
much-needed gap, which was halalinvesting and sharia-compliant
(01:47):
financial planning in theCanadian market.
Jesse also serves as a seniorwealth advisor at Munzel, and
he's been instrumental inbringing financial literacy and
halal wealth management to theMuslim community across North
America.
He lives in Winnipeg with hiswife and two sons, and when he's
not working, you'll find him onthe mat practicing Brazilian
Jiu-Jitsu or Muay Thai.
(02:08):
So thank you for coming on thepodcast, Jesse.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Thank you guys for having me.
Great to hear and yeah, I dohave some thoughts on that first
thing that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Exactly that's what I wanted to ask you.
Was that like did I just getlucky?
And is this the topic offinances?
Is it should be on the table orare we just over-prioritizing
finances and money?
And if it actually should be onthe table, then how should a
couple go about it?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, so I think there is, you know, a happy
medium, right Like?
It certainly doesn't need to beall about finance, but there
has to be at least some level ofunderstanding.
This is, of course, my opinionthat you know what the financial
roles.
We look at it and for the mostpart, the man is 100%
(03:06):
responsible for providing forhis wife, but of course, you
know, with the expenses oftoday's society, with life these
days, that isn't alwaysentirely possible.
So how do you earn some extrahasanah?
By helping him out, right, as awoman, anything that you
provide in the marriagefinancially is considered
(03:28):
charity, right.
So looking at it that way is apretty excellent thing to do,
and what I would say is that itshouldn't be all about you know
the financial capabilities.
There has to be other things,right Like.
You know, there's lots of peoplewho are really well off
financially, who are muslim, butyou know they're taking credit
(03:48):
card debt, they've got, you know, a bunch of interest based
mortgages, they've got abusiness and maybe it's in, you
know, alcohol or clubs orwhatever the case may be, and so
maybe this person's amillionaire, but they're not on
their dean, right.
So it's like for for a muslimsister.
Yeah, maybe it's nice to to geta nice car and this and that,
(04:08):
but you have to understand, likethis, this money is not coming
from halal sources, so there'sno blessing in anything that's
happening with you.
So what I would say is that itshouldn't be completely out of
the topic of conversation, but,you know, as long as you can
sort of see a means for thisperson who is responsible for
(04:29):
providing for you, to make aliving and provide for both of
you guys, I think that is kindof the way to go, right.
So we know that the ProphetMuhammad basically said, like,
like something for mahar was acat, right.
Like it very, very similar.
(04:49):
You know, teaching some, somequran can be, can be part of the
mahar.
Like just very, very simple andbasic things, and those are
extremely blessed, right.
So we shouldn't completelydiscount the simplicity of of,
you know, being able to cometogether, but, at the same time,
we also live in 2025, you know,financial burdens are a reality
(05:11):
.
So, seeing a path for both ofyou to work together and move
forward, I think that'ssomething that you have to
discuss.
I think it's a matter of beingkind of frank and open and
honest, right, and I mean, Iknow it can be kind of
uncomfortable, right, but Iwould say it's better to have
all of that, you know, on thetable right away instead of
(05:34):
especially because we live inthe West, you know it not
working out going through amessy divorce.
Maybe we get kind of theWestern legal system involved,
right, everybody ends up alittle bit poorer, except for
the lawyers who are involved inthe divorce courts, all these
other kinds of things, right.
So, you know, really, justbeing honest with ourselves,
like, hey, you know what, I want?
A $50,000 meher.
(05:55):
Oh, my God, are you out of yourmind?
I'm not giving you a $50,000meher.
Well, that's what I deserve.
Okay, what makes you think youdeserve that?
Right, like, and and, if it'strue, in my opinion, if it's
truly like you meet all theother aspects of, like the Dean
that that they're looking for.
You know, some people just say$50,000 may have because it's
like, okay, they like it's justlike a wall, they're putting up
(06:17):
a wall, right.
But you know, I'm pretty suremy wife had said that about
previous guys.
They got to come up with 20,000and this and this and this, and
then she met me and,alhamdulillah, like, we made it
way more, way more simple thanthat, right?
So it's like you gotta, yougotta, I think, have those
discussions, but also understandlike there there's always a
(06:40):
little bit of wiggle room.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I'm glad you mentioned the the practice of a
woman contributing to her familyand how that is an act of
charity, because these days Imean, let's be honest a lot of
girls are out earning men andwhat we're seeing as matchmakers
is that sometimes sisters areconflating core values with
(07:02):
financial stability and they arethinking that well, to me,
income and financial stabilityis very important.
So sometimes we'll hear thingslike if he's not making 80K,
then I'm not going to entertainthat.
And, on the other hand, howmany Muslim men are actually
earning that?
So the question is are thesestandards wise or are they just
(07:24):
simply unrealistic?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, you know that's everybody's personal
business.
If you truly want to have astandard of like, if they're not
earning a minimum of 80,000,like, okay, great.
But once again I go back tookay, but what else?
Right, it can't just be money,right?
How are they earning the 80,000?
I know some Muslim brothers whoare earning, you know, 70, 80,
90,000 a year, but they work atthe bank, right?
(07:48):
So how blessed is that wealth?
Right, and you know, for it'snot even a ton of money, but you
know they're earning a goodliving, but it's.
Is it halal, right?
And to me, that's the mostimportant thing is like, is the
(08:10):
income coming into yourhousehold coming from a halal
source?
Right?
Because if it's not, like, nomatter how much you put, it, put
aside, no matter how much youthink there's financial
stability there, trust me when Isay like, this person is always
going to be in debt.
They work at it, like if theywork at the bank.
They've been trained to thinkthat going into debt is a good
idea.
They've been trained to thinkthat a mortgage is a good idea.
They've been trained to thinkthat, oh, using a credit card
isn't terrible, or using a lineof credit isn't a bad thing,
(08:32):
like, even if they're Muslim andthey still have these others.
This is what they are toldevery single day that all of
these things are good becausethey can help you buy assets and
do this, do this, do this, butlike a lot, and his messenger
will make a war with you if youare dealing in that sort of
thing and you may not see it.
Yeah, sure, he's making 80k, butmaybe you won't be able to have
(08:52):
children, right?
Maybe you won't be able to sendthem to a good school.
Maybe you won't be able to buya house.
Maybe, like, you'll end up inbankruptcy, right?
Maybe people get fired at thebank all the time and replace
the next day.
Maybe he'll lose his job, right, and all these debts that he's
accumulated.
Well, now, like, ok, now yougot to declare bankruptcy.
So you think this 80K is the beall and end all.
(09:12):
But you know, if you're riddenwith debt, dealing in interest,
have, have a life of justpaycheck to paycheck payments,
paycheck payments.
You know, someone with making40 grand a year, no debt, living
within their means, like thatmight be a much more stable and
peaceful life.
You never know.
So I would always say the firstthing that you need to look for
(09:34):
is dean, dean, like, are theyon their dean?
And everybody, we all have ourflaws, right?
Nobody's perfect, right, buthaving the set of standard, like
if he makes 80k a year, I'm notokay.
But what about?
Does he pray?
Does he?
Uh, does he go to the masjid?
Uh, how does he treat hisparents?
How does he treat his brothersand sisters?
How does he treat his friends?
(09:54):
Right, there's way more to itthan money.
How's he going to treat you?
You know what I mean and one ofthe other things that I see all
the time people who tend tomake good money.
You know, know, there's alittle not always, but there's a
little bit of arrogance there,right?
Like, oh, I'm providing, so Iget to.
You know, I'm going to boss youaround and you know you have to
do, as I say, whatever right.
(10:15):
So it can't just be the onlytopic of conversation.
And I would say look at howthey earn their income too,
because if they're not earningit in a halal way, you're going
to see problems, I promise you.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I love this.
Treat it as holistically andnot compartmentalize, but I'm
glad you spoke about debt.
Now, if there's one questionsingles should ask each other
when they're getting to knoweach other about finances, what
should that question be?
And it can't be.
Do you have that like besidesthis question?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I would.
I would be asking people likehow, what, how they view money
right, and like you know, thereare probably tactful ways to go
about that.
But like just asking them kindof, okay, you know, if know, if
you got, let's just say, let'sjust say you know, an extra 10
grand was in your accounttomorrow.
What are you doing with it?
(11:12):
Right, it's like, oh well, I'mgoing to pay off my debt.
Oh, I want to get somethingreally nice for my mother.
Right, I want to set it asidejust in case.
Right, I want to put it in themarket and invest it in a halal
way, in a halal way, you know.
And how they answer thatquestion will probably tell you.
(11:32):
You know who they are, and Iwould say that, and not always,
but I would say that, you know,not every answer is a bad answer
.
You just have to understand,kind of, where their priorities
are.
Like getting a gift for yourmother, that's great, you know.
Going out and buying a, youknow, something nice for
(11:52):
yourself?
Okay, maybe you know, but wouldyou do the same thing?
Could you live with someone whodoes the same thing?
Right, if someone's going to goand buy a Gucci purse or
whatever, if they had an extra10 grand in their, in their
account, but you're the personwho's going to set it aside just
in case something bad happens,or, uh, you know, invested in
the stock market, like you guysare very different financially,
(12:17):
it could still work.
I, I, you know, you guys are themarriage people, I'm just the
finance guy.
But, um, what I would say isthat, you know, know, you have
to understand.
Okay, if there's that gap, howare you going to make up for it?
Right?
Especially, like, if you're theguy, I'm the investment guy, I
want to put aside savings, Iwant to have an emergency fund,
(12:37):
I want to have all these thingsand this other, the woman.
This could be the man, right,the man could be that and the
woman could be the the saver,right.
But either way, like, okay, mygoal is to have x amount for my
kids, education and an emergency, and this and this and so, but
he's never gonna save anything,or she's never gonna save
(12:57):
anything.
So how am I gonna make up thatshortfall?
Because they're they're notsavers, right?
So it could still work.
But I'm just saying you eitherhave to find it where you're
both compatible financially orfigure out a way that you're
going to work around this, likeI love them so much, I don't
care if they want to spend it ona Gucci, whatever, but I'm
going to make it up by you know,maybe working an extra shift or
(13:20):
starting a business or whateverit is right.
So figuring out where that'sgoing to lead you, that's what I
would say.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I'm glad you touched upon that term,
financial compatibility becausethat's a huge topic, especially
with girls, and what I hear alot of sometimes from sisters is
that it's difficult for them toforesee a marriage where the
guy's earning less than them andto them, financial
compatibility means that they'reearning pretty much at the same
(13:50):
level.
So or he's making more rightBecause Islam prescribes men to
be the providers.
So, from working with, whetherit's couples or singles, do you
feel like there's an element oftruth to that, where marriages
are not usually more sustainablewith the wife's earning more
than the husband, or people justkind of have a very warped
(14:12):
understanding of financialcompatibility?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, I mean, once again, I think it goes back to
what everybody's preferences are.
There are some men who would beabsolutely mortified, probably
myself included, if my wife wasproviding for me and like she's
a nurse, she could if she wantedto.
You know what I mean.
But, like you know, it's kindof my responsibility in Islam to
make sure my family is takencare of, and, alhamdulillah,
(14:37):
allah has blessed me with theability to do that.
But we have to remember, right,khadijah was basically much
wealthier than the ProphetMuhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa
sallam, and she was older andall of these things right, and
she was the one who provided hisemployment initially, right, so
(14:58):
yet they had a beautifulmarriage.
Right, and we learn this fromthe sunnah right, that it's not
a one or the other scenario.
Right, and we learned this fromthe Sunnah right, that it's not
a one or the other scenario.
Right, like you could have anabsolutely beautiful marriage
with a person who earns morethan you, right, but what did he
bring to the table?
Right, he brought his character, he brought his honesty, he
brought his personality, hebrought Islam, like all of these
(15:23):
things right, and you know, shewas the wealthier one, but she
also provided him comfort, andby no means was this like lorded
over him or anything like thateither, right.
So you know, what I think ismen should certainly have the
ability and should be having theintent on providing for their
(15:44):
wife, because this is our rolein Islam, right.
But if it comes to a point, wellso, and I'll give you an
example, there's actually thiscouple that I know.
While his wife was in medicalschool, he was working like two
jobs.
I don't know exactly what hedid, but he was working two
different jobs, working reallyhard to put her through medical
school, providing for his kidswhen they were small,
(16:06):
alhamdulillah and all thesedifferent things.
And then she passed her exams,became a physician and she's
like OK, you're done, you'reretired, I'll look after things
from now on.
Right, and the kids are allgrowing up now in university,
becoming physicians andengineers and all these things
themselves.
You know he spends most of histime at the must-gen.
(16:27):
He still does other things.
He's got like real estate,investments and all these other
things, um, but you know he he'sbasically not working anymore
because she she's like okay,you've done enough for me, my
turn, my turn to do to do thisfor you.
And now he kind of just, youknow he chills I mean I wouldn't
call it chilling, but, like youknow, he provided for her in
this in this way and you knowshe felt like she would do this
(16:50):
for him now that he's he'sgetting older.
So, yeah, what I would just sayis that it's, it's all about how
you feel about it, and I wouldsay that, you know, don't
discount someone just becausethey're earning less than you,
right?
I mean, if for the sisters whoare, you know, maybe you are a
physician or an engineer or alawyer, right?
(17:11):
Like I, one of my very closestfriends, he's a librarian and
his wife is a lawyer, right,they have a beautiful marriage
and they have a very happyfamily, mashallah, right.
So you just have to look at itfor more than one thing, right?
It's not just money, like, lookat everything holistically, the
deed.
You know how you guys are goingto raise the family together,
(17:34):
all of these things, becauseit's not like you could be super
, super wealthy, you could havea guy who's earning even more
than you, but he has no time tospend with you, he has no time
to talk to his.
You know, be a father, be anyof these other kinds of things
right.
So, yeah, it should be the onlypart of the conversation.
Important, but not the onlything.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, absolutely, or he could even be stingy, right.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
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Speaker 2 (18:13):
So let's say, there's this woman, she's established
Mashallah, she has a good career.
Maybe she even has a propertyunder her name.
And there's this guy.
He has good dean, he's kind,good personality, but he's not
there yet.
He's not broke, but he's noteven settled in his career.
(18:33):
Maybe he just even finishedschool.
Should she consider it, orshould she be more realistic?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, again, it goes back to what's important,
important to you, right?
I mean I would say that again,if he's good on dean, if you can
see him being, you know, a goodfather and a good husband, and
uh, you know he's, he's maybehe's not settled in his career,
but he's got an idea about howhe's gonna provide for the
family and, uh, you know, lookafter himself and how he's going
(19:03):
to contribute, maybe notnecessarily financially as much
as he wants to, but you know,having that idea right, getting
a sense of kind of what youreally want, because you know it
could be a situation wheremaybe he isn't quite there yet,
(19:24):
but maybe he's entrepreneurial,he's got a really good idea for
business.
It could be a situation wheremaybe he he isn't quite there
yet, but maybe he'sentrepreneurial, he's got a
really good idea for business.
It's just starting out, it'snot quite there yet, but you can
see like, if this works, youknow he's going to be very, very
successful, right, uh, but atthe end of the day, the most
important thing is like, okay,is what he's doing Halal, is he
earning Halal income and is hegood on Deen?
(19:46):
To me those are the mostimportant things.
Like I cannot stress enough.
Is the income halal?
That should be your, not.
How much is he making?
How much of the income is hemaking is halal?
I can't stress this enough.
Guys, I know so many people.
They work at banks.
They earn hundreds of thousandsof dollars a year, but they
don't have any money becauseeverything is, and maybe maybe
(20:07):
even their income is halal.
But they're taking bank loans,they're taking mortgages,
they're taking lines of credit,they're doing everything in the
haram system and now all theircash is going to, you know, car
payment and this payment, andthis payment and this payment.
It's all going to riba, right.
And so now they've got nothing,even if they're earning a good
income.
So, just like, if you take onething away from this, the income
(20:31):
, the money conversation isimportant.
How much they're making isimportant.
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Mashallah, I can see how passionate you are about the
topic.
So actually out of curiosity,was your entrance into Islam
tied to your passion forfinances and investments, or was
there something else thatattracted you to Islam?
Just out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
kind of came naturally.
So, like I was, there was afriend of mine at the mosque.
He basically made a bet with me.
He's like look, if you can finda flaw in the Quran, I'll leave
Islam right.
And so I tried and I could, andso I accepted Islam.
But then after I, after I wasworking at the, at the bank at
the time I was an investmentadvisor and they were like Okay,
go bring on, bring us clientsright.
And so I'm going.
I'm like in my newfound masjid,I'm talking to people.
I'm like, hey, you know, I'm aninvestment advisor.
(21:29):
If you guys want to talkfinance, we can sit down.
They're like we're not talkingto you.
I'm like why?
They're like because everythingyou're doing is haram.
I'm like huh, what does that ofReba?
Look at what happened withHaiti.
Look at what happenedpost-World War II.
(21:50):
Look at what happened withGhana, all these different
things.
They paid like billions uponbillions of dollars in interest
and like it destroyed thesecountries.
It very well caused the SecondWorld War and the Holocaust and
all these other kind of things.
So it's like, now that I know Ican't unsee it and it's so,
it's a very big passion of mine.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
SubhanAllah, I think I feel like the topic of riba,
like it's taken lightly, eventhough it's one of the kabair in
our deen, but we as Muslims,especially because we live in
the West, we don't even botherto look for alternatives.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And it's hard, right.
Like I don't necessarily blamepeople because, like it's so
hard to avoid it, right?
Like, even if you know youdon't take loans and you don't
do this and you don't do that,like if you don't have a credit
card, it's very.
Like, it's so inconvenient,right.
Like booking a hotel room,booking a flight, you know,
(22:49):
staying at a hotel, like all ofthese things, right?
Instead of that, you've got toput up like cash or $500
deposits and all these otherkinds of things.
Like it makes it.
It makes things so much moredifficult.
And some scholars have said,like look, you can take it, but
you've got to pay off.
Pay it off on time every single, every single month.
But then there are others wholike, no, it's haram, it's haram
.
It's haram.
Like you've signed a contractsaying you're willing to pay
(23:11):
interest if you're late, right?
So you know, and I'm not ascholar, so you got to decide
for yourselves what, what youthink is best for you and your
family.
But it's just one of thesethings like it's so easy, it's
so easy to get involved ininterest, especially in the West
, right?
So, alhamdulillah, like theguys at Manzil, they're doing
everything in their power tohelp give Muslims a path away
(23:34):
from it, but it's very, veryhard to avoid.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Subhanallah.
Even, by the way, people inMuslim countries like it's not
like people in Muslim countriesare mashallah, like they don't
deal with Ruba at all.
We just take it lightly.
Unfortunately, and maybe it'slack of education, lack of I
don't know emphasis in themasjids about the danger of riba
(23:57):
.
Like you said, allah said it'sa war.
Allah is declaring war againstpeople dealing with riba.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think there is certainly a level of
uncomfortability, like we talkedabout in the beginning, and
Muslim couples should definitelybe having these conversations
before marriage.
But the question is what tocover, because finances and
money is such a broad topic.
So what would you say are threemust discuss topics during the
(24:26):
courting phase.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I mean to me, I like, I want to know how someone's
earning their living right, likethat, to me, that's number one,
right?
How much they're making is isless important than how they are
making their wealth.
Right, so like, if this personis making tons of money but they
work at, you know, for a liquorand lotteries company, or they
work for a weapons manufacturer,or they work at a bank, you
(24:49):
know, and they're not doinghalal finance, like I would be
very, very cautious aboutproceeding.
Right, even if they'repromising you like no, no, I'll
leave, I'll find something halal, like whatever, whatever they
say, it's like okay, do it now,right, before we, before we
start our life, before we starta family, before we have kids.
Right, because what kind ofexample are you setting for for
your children?
(25:09):
Right, I'm earning a bunch ofmoney, but I'm not earning it
from a halal source, okay, sowhat's to stop, you know, your
children from going into uh, youknow haram things themselves?
What's to stop them from goinginto liquor or adult
entertainment or whatever else,or, or, or, or, cannabis or
whatever, right?
So to me, that is the mostimportant thing how are you
earning your income?
(25:29):
And if they, if they won't tellyou to me, like, okay, that's
it, we're done here, right,don't move on from that, because
if they won't tell you howthey're earning their income,
then it's probably not beingearned in a in a hollow way, um,
and as their future wife ortheir future husband, like you
deserve, deserve to know.
So that would be number one.
The second would be, kind ofthat $10,000 question what would
(25:52):
you do if you had an extra$10,000 or however much, right,
like, it doesn't have to be10,000, but what would you do
with some extra, like thisamount of extra money in your
account, right?
And how they answer thatquestion Are they going to put
it aside?
Are they going to invest it?
Are they going to invest it?
Are they going to buy something?
Are they going to spend it?
Gives you a really good senseof like, okay, how do they view
money?
Right, and then the last thingI would say is you know the
(26:12):
discussion around the mehar,right?
The mehar is, is a requirement,right?
Um?
And having that discussion kindof right away about what the
expectation is, what you want asa mehar, what you're willing to
to pay as a mehar for for theman, like, and you know any sort
of alignment there.
Number one I cannot stress thisenough is like how the person is
(26:35):
, is earning their living, andthen maybe I'd also, I'd
probably like with the mehar,I'd probably talk about okay,
listen, if I'm you guys, we are,we're doing everything in our
power to avoid ribba in ourlives, right?
So, buying a house, sure, wecan do it if we can find a halal
way.
If not, you know, we'll rent,right, um, if we, if we can't
(26:57):
afford to buy a car, we're gonnatake the bus.
Oh, you know I'll.
We'll ride our bikes everywhere, you know we'll run.
Well, whatever you need to do,right, we'll take the public
transit.
Um, because, like, having thisrub in your life, trust me, like
your life is going to be worseand far more stressful.
Like, get, do you know how?
You know how, uh, the feelingyou I'm sure you guys have you
(27:18):
had, like your professionalmatchmakers, but jobs in the
past or whatever, if you, if youhave debt, right, and this is a
whole other topic in and ofitself, but if you have debt,
especially interest-based debt,you're like, man, I cannot
afford to lose my job, I've gotthis payment, I've got this
payment, I've got this payment.
Like you're stuck, you feeltrapped, right.
But if you don't have any debtand you lose your job, I mean
(27:40):
sure there's still some expenses, but but it's not going to ruin
your life financially.
Like you, you're still gonna,you're gonna be okay.
And there's a a sense of of Iwhat's the word I'm looking for
here?
Just like a sense of safety,right, a sense of of calm, that
like, okay, if something happens, I'll be okay, alhamdulillah.
But if you have debt, Iguarantee you the people who
(28:01):
have death, they're like they'regoing to bed at night.
They're like, okay, I got this,I gotta pay this, I gotta pay
this.
Like you don't sleep well, sojust stay, stay away from it,
especially because it's interest, and the prophet muhammad,
sallallahu alayhi wasallam,would not pray janazah on people
who had debt.
So like, really, wait, save, buysomething you get for you.
If you're gonna set aside fiftydollars a month, don't buy the
(28:23):
six hundred dollar thing now.
Buy it at the end of the year,right, imagine, imagine the
barakah in just waiting, right,putting it aside and waiting.
So Ramadan is long over, but Ialways use this, this analogy in
Ramadan, right, like how gooddoes that first sip of water
feel At the end of a long day offasting, right.
(28:43):
So water, it's water, like it'severywhere, but like that first
step, it makes you feel so muchgratitude.
So, like, amplify that feelingwith whatever you want to buy.
If it's a big ticket thing,amplify that feeling by setting
it aside, putting in the work,and then buying it in cash so
that nobody owns it except foryou.
And that might be impossiblewith housing in Canada but, like
(29:08):
other things, you can do it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
The Prophet used to ask refuge from debt, like
because, like you said, it's ahuge burden and it can ruin
marriages.
But I'm glad you touched on thetopic of housing.
How can a couple, a Muslimcouple, plan for buying a house
without getting into debt Sorry,without getting into RIBA or
mortgages?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah.
So it's definitely tough,especially in Canada.
But there are two halal optionsthat I'm really comfortable
saying are halal.
One is, of course, the Menzelhalal mortgage.
I'm biased, I'm team Menzelthese days, but the Menzel halal
Mortgage, you know you put up20% of your income, they'll put
up up to 80%, you know, as longas you qualify through their
(29:51):
income and have a decent creditscore, then you know you guys
can work together.
You go into partnership to buya house and let's say you know
they divided into shares, right?
So each share will be a dollarand you guys will agree that
you'll buy out their portion ofthe shares for like $1.06, as an
example, or $1.05, $1.04,whatever the case may be right.
(30:13):
And as you're buying out theshares, you become a larger
percentage owner of the house.
They become a smallerpercentage owner until it's all
done and then it's it's yourhouse, right?
So this has been approved bymajor scholars in Canadaada,
like mufti mirza zain beg, aswell, as it's approved by aoi fi
scholars, which, if you're notfamiliar with them, they're sort
(30:35):
of an international body ofscholars based out of bahrain
who have come up with, you know,a good set of sharia standards.
So this is the, the standardsthat we follow.
And uh, and you know, mostpeople are comfortable getting a
mortgage in Halal way throughthe Menzel Halal Mortgage.
There is another company calledIkraz.
They are a competitor, but I'mnever going to say that they're
not Halal, because Mufti MirzaZainbeg has also said that this
(30:59):
product is Halal as well.
So shop, you know, check out tosee which one is best for you.
I know there are a few otherslike and some others.
I'm not as familiar with theirprocess or their.
You know who's approved it andwhatever all these different
things.
But but look around, you know,shop around.
And I would say what you can dois start making a plan to get
(31:24):
that 20% together right.
So, cause that's a lot of money, especially in like Ontario,
especially in Quebec, inVancouver, humboldt and Manitoba
, it's not too too bad.
You know you probably only needlike 80,000 to get a decent
house for a down payment, right,if you go with the 20%.
But make a plan right so youcan use some of these tools
(31:46):
right rsps, first time homebuyersaving accounts, tax-free
saving accounts get, you know,get that money invested in a
halal way so that you can getthere faster, right and save on
taxes while you're doing it.
But the you know, with thebanks, of course it'll be easier
for you.
You know you only need a fivepercent down payment, right, but
again, you'll be using Riba.
(32:06):
Look at all the things thathappen when, like, if you miss
payments, right, so with a bank,if you miss payments, the
interest, the debt keeps goingup.
Even if you've only missed itonce, even if you paid it the
next day, it's still yourmortgage costs a little bit more
, right?
So?
Like, these are things you'vegot to think about.
(32:27):
Like, if you miss the payments,they'll take your house, sell
it for a fraction of what it'sworth and likely you're still
going to have to keep keeppaying them in some way, shape
or form.
Right so like and this is wherethis is where interest can be
extreme, like, I would say, evil.
Right is because everythingabout it, for the most part,
benefits the person lending.
(32:48):
Right?
Like they have all the leverage, all the power, all these
different things.
And you, if you mess up,anytime there's a like,
everything goes against you,right?
But in in profit basedtransactions, if there is a
situation, of course you know,I'm until and I'm sure, across
does the same, we do everythingwe can to minimize those risks,
but, at the end of the day, likeif something bad happens, like
(33:10):
we're on the hook for it as wellas you, right, and so that's
why this is, you know, pure whenit comes to Islamic finance.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
So do you think that Muslim men need to step up
financially in certain ways?
Now, not just income, buthabits, planning,
responsibilities, mindset shifts.
And also, what mindset shiftsdo they need to make, would you
say?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, so this is something that, and a lot of
these are just my own personalopinions, right, but I think
that all men in marriages whoare planning to get married or
who are married, like,understand what your
responsibility is.
Your wife has absolutely noobligation to provide for you or
for your family period.
(33:57):
Right, that's on you.
So you need to find a way and,of course, like I say, make sure
that you're doing it in a halalway, you know, understand that.
Okay, like, the only way I canprovide is if I'm doing this
work or that work or whatever,but your job is to provide,
right, so, like, let's notsugarcoat it.
(34:18):
You need to step up, you needto find a way.
And if you can't find a way,like anything that comes from
right, understand that's charity.
Your wife is under noobligation to help you.
That's her money, right, if shedoes, mashallah, she's amazing.
That's charity, all thesethings, but this is on you.
What I would say is, yes,planning ahead is always a great
(34:39):
idea, right, no matter what thecircumstance.
The farther ahead that you planand it's hard to do this when
you feel like you're livingpaycheck to paycheck, but the
easier things become.
I'll give you an example.
So every single year, we havethe option to contribute to
first-time homebuyer savingaccounts and RRSPs.
Both of these things are thingsthat reduce our taxes, right?
(34:59):
So with a first-time homebuyersaving account, you can put up
to $8,000 in there per year.
Homebuyer saving account youcan put up to $8,000 in there
per year.
The way it works is that, let'sjust say, you earn $50,000 of
income, instead of thegovernment taxing the full 50,
they'll only tax 42,000, right.
So you end up saving, you know,2000,.
Maybe $3,000 in taxes, right,but $8,000 like that, that's a
(35:28):
lot of money to come up with allat once, right.
But if you start planningJanuary 1st of 2025, and instead
of putting up $8,000 all atonce, maybe you're putting aside
$500 a month and then at theend of the year, maybe you get
the holiday bonus or whatever.
Put in that extra 2000,.
Boom, you've hit the goal,right.
Or with an RSP same kind ofthing, like you get 18% of your
income per year that you can puttowards it and this will reduce
(35:48):
your taxes Once again.
This can also be used as a downpayment for your house, right,
but putting money into this alllike you have until basically
the end of February of 2026, toput money into your RSP to
reduce taxes for 2025.
But when we come to that pointin the year, most people are
like, oh, I don't have a lot ofmoney to put into my RRSP.
(36:09):
Yes, I understand, but if youhad started planning for it last
year, okay, what if you'redoing 50 a month, 100 a month,
200 a month, 300 a month?
Right, that'll make a hugedifference in how much tax you
have to pay, or you might get abigger tax refund, right?
So all of these things planningahead, financial planning, like
, yes, have have that in yourmind.
(36:30):
And if you need help mentalwealth we can help you.
There are other financialadvisors out there that can help
you as well.
And then the other part of it ismindset.
I 100% agree with this in thesense that I'm a big believer in
an abundance mindset.
Right, allah created theuniverse and all it contains.
Right, and there is no limit tohow much risk, how much wealth,
(36:53):
how much he can bestow upon anyone of us, right?
But I think the main things wehave to understand is that how
much we're going to receive isreflected in, you know, how we
view money, how we treat money,how we earn our money, you know
and be and that's not to saythat you can't earn tons of
money in a haram way, that's notto say that you can't, you know
(37:15):
, do all these things right.
But I think, having thatmindset that there is an
abundance of wealth out therefor me, that all belongs to
Allah and you know, if I strive,and I, you know, and I pursue
excellence and I do all of theseother kind of things, like, it
will come right, but do that ina halal way.
(37:35):
So that's the way I kind ofview things and the way I view
the world.
And, you know, I think it's animportant mindset to have, just
because there's no limit to howmuch Allah can bless you with
and it may not always just bemoney, right.
Look at how many like there'srich people who you know,
extremely wealthy, people, whoare, you know, suicidal and they
(37:56):
have depression and they have,you know, health issues and all
these other kinds of things.
There's a video out there wheresomeone said, okay, you know
it's just some random guy onYouTube Like, okay, I will, what
if I gave you $10 million but Itold you, uh, you couldn't wake
up tomorrow, would you take it.
No, not a single person saidwould say yes to that, right?
(38:16):
Uh, what if I, what if I wereto give you, uh, you know, two
$300,000, but you could neverwalk again, would you take it?
No, right, so, like you're rich, you're rich because so many of
these, so many of these thingspeople come up to you with with
(38:36):
monetary, like these monetarycomparisons, right, but nobody
would ever take take this dealbecause they'd rather be able to
walk or taste sugar or, youknow, run or wake up the next
day or be with their family orall these other kind of things.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have
you on here.
You'll find a safe space oflisteners who can understand
what you're going through.
Do you feel that, as an Ummah,we're becoming too materialistic
and losing sight of what reallymatters?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, I do, yes, I do.
I think that, and you know,it's one of these things that
there's nothing wrong withhaving nice things and a nice
house and driving a nice car andall of these other kind of
things.
Right?
But the Prophet Muhammad, peacebe upon him said that we are
people of the middle things.
Right, but the Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam,
said that we are people of themiddle path.
Right, don't be too extravagant, don't be miserly, don't be you
(39:39):
know, don't hoard your wealth,but don't spend it excessively.
Right, we are people of themiddle path.
So, having you know, wearing anice garment is fine, wearing a
nice watch is fine, driving anice car is fine.
But if you're doing thesethings and you don't have the
means to which a lot of peopledon't, okay.
(39:59):
So now you're, you'recompromising your islamic values
and ethics to look a certainway.
Right to drive the bmw.
I know for a fact there are abunch of people in my community,
and I'm sure other communitiestoo, who are financing on
interest Mercedes and BMWs andall these, you know, fairly
(40:20):
fancy cars, right, but they havezero savings, they have no
investments, they have no, theydon't own their house.
And I mean, look, I'm notsaying that having this BMW is
wrong, right, but taking it inRibba is a bad thing, right?
Like, if you can't afford itand you can't afford to get it
in a halal way, don't get it.
Right.
And like trust me, your lifewill be better without the BMW,
(40:43):
right?
If you buy it cash, that's adifferent story.
But if you take it on interest,trust me like, you're going to
be less wealthy, I promise you.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, yeah, I feel social media has a major effect
and influence.
You could say, like we seethings that travel and cars and
whatever, and we start likecomparing and we want to have it
.
But speaking of cars, zaid hasan interesting car story, so he
brought this car with him fromChicago and it was what?
(41:15):
2008 or what?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, 2008.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It was coming apart, like one day we would be driving
and rust would fall from thecar.
But subhanAllah, he's like I'mnot buying a car with money I
don't have and alhamdulillah,now we have like a much nicer
one, but it's worth it.
It's a really nice feeling.
You feel like you earned it.
You worked for it.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
For sure, but going along the vein of planning
things and those conversationsthat couples should be having,
what's your take on mergingfinances?
Are you either for jointaccounts, separate accounts, is
there some kind of hybrid?
What do you think has workedbest in your experience?
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So I can only tell you what I do and from what I
see.
So, like, we keep it for themost part separate, my wife and
I, and the reason we do isbecause you know I do handle, I
would say, 90% of the bills.
The main things that she'll dois like daycare stuff or stuff
(42:21):
with kids, things like that,alhamdulillah.
You know she works really hardas a nurse.
But you know the one thing Idon't really want to and this is
just my, I don't want to be.
You know the one thing I don'treally want to, and this is just
my, I don't want to be.
You know, looking into how shespends her money, right, I've
kind of came to the conclusionwhen we were first courting each
(42:41):
other and whatever the case maybe, that you know she's, she's
not really a saver right, she'ssafe sometimes, but not not not
super, it's not super saverright.
So, hamdala, like but I kind ofyou know she's great in every
other way Like she's great onDean, super great family values,
(43:05):
my family really liked her, allthese different things.
So you know, but, hamdala, I'vegot a plan to kind of make all
that up, where I'm setting moneyaside for our kids education
every month and I've got someother things for, you know, our
kids future, and I've got thisgoing on for retirement and that
going on for for business andyou know just all these things.
(43:27):
So, you know, would like haveit.
So, personally, I don't want tobe that person Like, why did you
spend this money, why did youspend that money?
Right?
It's different if they come toyou and they're like, oh yeah,
and they start complaining abouttheir finances.
Then I'll be like, okay, well,take me through your day, how do
you spend your money?
Right.
(43:47):
But you know, in a marriagesometimes that makes things
worse than it does better.
Um, so you know, to me I wouldsay it's it's more, it's more
about personal preference.
But, like my wife and I, we wedo keep it separate, um, but
then, on the other hand, what Iwould say is uh, you know, it
(44:09):
just depends on whether or notyou guys have common financial
goals too, right?
Sometimes it can help seeingyour entire income as sort of
one thing.
Right, if both you have thecommon goal of okay, we're going
to hedge in five years, right?
Okay, combined collectively,we're both saving, we're both
(44:29):
earning.
You know, let's say, we've got10,000 a month between the two
of us, or 8,000, or 6,000, right, okay, let's set this amount
aside for Hajj, and then therest goes to our bills and our
expenses and all these otherkinds of things.
So looking at all of your moneyfor that common goal can be
very, very powerful, right, butit just has to be kind of in the
cards for your marriage, asthey say.
(44:51):
It has to be something thatboth of you are prepared to do.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Okay, let's take it back to singles.
What financial habits do youthink single people should have
start developing to prepare themfor marriage?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I think, first and foremost and this isn't just
single people, this is everybodystart making saving and
investing a habit from day one,from yesterday, from six months
ago.
Start making saving andinvesting a habit right now, and
it doesn't have to be a lot.
A lot of people think and havethe mindset of okay, I need to
(45:27):
get a bunch of money togetherbefore I start investing, before
I start saving, before I startsetting it aside.
But what I would tell you isstart doing it now, right,
because there's always going tobe a reason to not invest and to
not set money aside.
I've got this bill, I've gotthat bill I've got.
I got to say I've got to dothis, I've got to do that,
(45:52):
somebody needs help, I need tothat.
That is always going to bethere.
So if you don't prioritize itnow, when you've got nothing,
then when you start earning likeas we get older, generally
speaking, we start to earn moremoney.
We've got more experience,we've got more professional, you
know, credibility, all theseother kind of things, and so
with that tends to come moremoney and but if you don't make
saving and investing a prioritywhen you have very little, then
when you have more and it canhave more of an impact.
(46:14):
You're not going to have thosehabits in place to benefit you
or your family financially aswell.
So, you know, even if you're,maybe, maybe you just are, maybe
you're in university or you're,you know, just finishing high
school, maybe you got your firstjob, whatever the case may be,
start making those habits now,right, maybe it's $50 a month,
(46:36):
maybe it's $25 a month, maybeit's $25 a paycheck it doesn't
have to be a lot, but dosomething, and do something
always, right, even if you loseyour job, like, still try to
keep that habit of putting somemoney aside for yourself.
And you'll find that if youstart very, very small and it
should feel effortless I alwayssay this to all my clients if
(46:58):
you've never invested before, ifyou've never saved before,
start small, make it consistent.
It should feel effortless,right, because if it feels
effortless, then you're going tobe able to do more than you're
going to do it forever, right,and that's what.
That's what I want to see.
I want to see everybodystarting into those habits of
setting money aside.
Even if you're earning a smallamount of money, you can set
(47:20):
aside a small amount of money.
And one thing I always say andthis isn't necessarily the most
Islamically sound advice in thispersonal point but put some
money aside for yourself, nomatter what, every paycheck,
because at the end of the day,like you can't call your phone,
like if you pay your phone bill,pay your phone to pay bills,
right, but if something comes upand there's an emergency, you
(47:41):
can't call Rogers or you can'tcall hydro, or you can't call
whoever and say hey, listen, youknow I just paid you $200.
But I need that money backbecause something came up.
They're gonna be like are youout of your mind?
No, hang up, right.
So you know, have somethingaside for yourself, even if it's
a little bit.
Have something for yourselfjust in case it emerges, so that
(48:01):
you don't have to go into debt,go into a credit card, do a
payday loan, any of these things, because that is that will
crush you.
So, yeah, get into those habits, inshallah, and do it early.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Do you recommend people who have debt to start
investing, or first clear theirdebt and then start?
Speaker 1 (48:19):
So I would say and again, this isn't the most
Islamically sound advice butstart investing something right
and just enough so that you havesomething in case of an
emergency, right?
So I would say, you know, dolike the 80-20 rule.
If you've got $100 extra or $50extra, 80% of that, put that
(48:39):
towards debt, but 20% take thatand set it aside for yourself.
And this isn't because you wantto stay in debt or whatever the
case may be, but this is justin case something happens.
I don't have to go back intodebt, I don't have to deal with
Uriba again, I've got some cashfor myself.
So that's what I would say.
I know the sort of Islamicopinion would be pay off the
(49:02):
debt, pay off the debt, pay offthe debt.
And I would say, yes, but wewant to avoid going into debt
again in the future, right, sohave something there to you know
, bridge that gap.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
What are some halal investment strategies Muslim
couples can start looking into,or someone single wants to start
building for the future?
Where do they even begin?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah.
So I mean I think the firstthing and the easiest thing for
everybody to do everybody shoulddo this like when you're done
listening to this podcast, go doit right away.
Open up a tax-free savingaccount.
You can get a halal, tax-freesaving account with Menzil or
with Wealthsimple.
And then the good thing aboutthe tax-free saving account is
(49:44):
it can be taken care of in ahalal way.
Number one and number two isyour money isn't stuck right.
So you can put up to seventhousand dollars a year into the
tax-free saving account.
Any profit you earn is tax-freeand you can get that money out
anytime.
Right, but open that tax-freesaving account, start setting
money aside, even if it's alittle bit.
Twenty five dollars a month,fifty dollars a month try to be
(50:05):
as consistent as you can.
And then, of course, when themoney is in the tax-free saving
account, if you're with Munzilor Wealthsimple or some other
advisor who does things in ahalal way, the money in there
would get invested in a halalway.
So all the profits you earn youdon't have to worry about oh,
is it riba, Is it in somethingharam?
(50:26):
That'll be taken care of foryou.
So if you don't do anythingelse from a financial
perspective and from aninvestment perspective.
Just open up your tax-freesaving account and put money in
there, and what I would say topeople is if all you do for the
rest of your life is maximizeyour tax-free saving account
every single year, you will beincredibly well off financially.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Okay, it sounds easy enough.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Simple, not easy.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I guess what about investment options Like where
can a Muslim invest to havehalal way, like halal investment
?
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, so there are a couple options that you have.
There's Wealthsimple.
Again, they're a competitor ofours, so they're terrible.
Don't know, I'm just kidding,but Wealthsimple does have.
Wealthsimple does have, have ahalal investment option.
You can open up an accountthere.
You can also open up an accountwith Menzel.
That's the better option.
We're with Team Menzel, that'sthe better option by Muslims for
Muslims, right.
(51:28):
But you can open up an accountwith Manzil, and you know you
can open up a tax free savingsaccount with Manzil.
And then we have a bunch ofdifferent halal investment
options.
We have the Manzil halalmortgage fund.
We have one vest halal ETF.
We have some funds from Shariaportfolios, hlal, gold and
silver funds.
We have a whole bunch ofdifferent funds that have been
(51:49):
screened by scholars and insuredto be halal.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Okay, and what's your take on stocks?
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Stocks can be halal.
They just have to be taken careof in a halal way, right?
So when you look at differentstocks, it can be a bit
confusing, because it's like,okay, you know, what does this
company do?
Oh, you know, first of all,their business, right?
So the business that they'redoing has to be halal, right?
You can't invest in an alcoholcompany or a tobacco company.
(52:20):
I've got a quiz for you, a popquiz for you guys Do you think
it's halal to invest in Boeing?
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Boeing no.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
They make planes right.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
No.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
No, but they make war planes.
They make war planes, right.
So a lot of people will come tome.
They're like, hey, do you thinkI should invest in Boeing?
It's like, why?
Because they make planes,planes are halal, yeah, but what
are those planes?
Do let's?
Let's take a look at some ofthe planes in Israel's army,
right?
But we got to look, you got tolook at, you got to look at
these things, right?
So you know, looking at thingslike whether or not they deal in
(52:51):
cannabis or alcohol or gamblingor tobacco or adult
entertainment, all of this.
There are a lot of companiesthat are publicly traded that
deal in these things.
So so you have to find outwhere, like you know how the
stock is making its money, likewhere they so Apple, for example
.
Like they, they sell computersand software and all these other
kind of things, so they couldbe considered a halal company to
invest in, right?
(53:12):
So figuring out where they maketheir money, how they make
their money, and then all thesethings.
So you could do all that workand figure it out for yourself
and spend hours and hoursreading charts and all these
things.
Or you could come to Menzel andlet us do it for you.
And then you, just you know yourelax, You're good at marketing
, I'll give you that, and youjust you know you relax, You're
good at marketing, I'll give youthat Okay.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
So yeah, let's wrap up with how anybody can reach
out to you for your services.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Yeah, so the best way to reach us would be you could
go to menzelca backslash wealthWith that.
You know, we've got a team offinancial advisors all across
the country uh, here to help you.
So we've got people in Quebec.
If you're looking for help, uh,you know, and you want service
in French.
We got people there.
We've got people in the GTA.
(54:02):
We've got people in in AlbertaUh, I myself I'm in Manitoba.
We've got a brother out in BC.
So you have all these differentpeople, depending on where you
live, that can help you and setthings up with you.
And if you want a personal callwith me, we can do that too.
Jessiemanzowealthca, that's myemail.
That's the best way to get intouch with me and we can look at
(54:24):
your situation.
I do work with clients allacross the country.
So whatever you need, we'rehere to help you.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Cool.
Inshallah, we'll share all thisinformation in the description
of the episode.
And, guys, if you're seriousabout getting married, don't
skip the money conversation.
Don't make my mistake.
Alhamdulillah I got lucky, butdon't skip it.
It's uncomfortable, but justfind smart ways to go about it.
And the most important thing wetake from you, jesse, is just
(54:50):
make sure the money earned ishalal.
It's earned in a halal way.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Of course and if your brain feels full I'm sure
Hiba's brain does too You're notalone.
So that was a lot ofinformation, but hopefully gave
you guys some real tools to havethese conversations in your own
life, whether you're courting,committed or just financially
confused.
And also if it did help youshare with a friend who's
looking to get married or justloves to spend a lot of money at
(55:16):
costco thank you so much, jesse.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
We've learned a lot, a lot to think about after we
turn off the mic, inshallah.
But thank you for your time andthank you, our beautiful
listeners.
We'll see you next time okay,just assalamu alaikum everyone.
If you take one thing away from this.
The money conversation isimportant.
How much they're making isimportant, right, but if they're
not making it in a halal way,it doesn't matter, because your
life is going to suck.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So let's dive in Bismillah.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Assalamu alaikum everyone.
Welcome to another episode.
My name is Hiba and on theother mic is my husband and
co-host, zaid.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Okay, guys.
So I'm going to tell you asecret.
When Zaid and I were talkingand getting to know each other,
I did not ask him how much hewas making.
Now, was that dumb, was thatreckless, was that romantic?
I really don't know.
But Alhamdulillah, it workedout and today, actually, we are
diving into this conversationthat a lot of people feel
(01:01):
uncomfortable to have, which ismoney.
A lot of people feeluncomfortable to have, which is
money?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yep, because in the real world, obviously, love is
more than just sharing commonplaylists.
It's about figuring things outbills, budgeting, whether or not
your future spouse thinks acredit card is free money.
Today, alhamdulillah, we'rejoined by somebody who actually
knows what he's talking about,Jesse Reitberger.
He's an expert in Islamicfinance in Canada.
(01:26):
He converted to Islam in 2014and took a deep dive into
Islamic finance, earningcertifications from the Ethica
Institute to become both acertified and advanced Islamic
finance executive.
He launched Canadian IslamicWealth in 2019 to fill a
much-needed gap, which was halalinvesting and sharia-compliant
(01:47):
financial planning in theCanadian market.
Jesse also serves as a seniorwealth advisor at Munzel, and
he's been instrumental inbringing financial literacy and
halal wealth management to theMuslim community across North
America.
He lives in Winnipeg with hiswife and two sons, and when he's
not working, you'll find him onthe mat practicing Brazilian
Jiu-Jitsu or Muay Thai.
(02:08):
So thank you for coming on thepodcast, Jesse.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Thank you guys for having me.
Great to hear and yeah, I dohave some thoughts on that first
thing that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Exactly that's what I wanted to ask you.
Was that like did I just getlucky?
And is this the topic offinances?
Is it should be on the table orare we just over-prioritizing
finances and money?
And if it actually should be onthe table, then how should a
couple go about it?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, so I think there is, you know, a happy
medium, right Like?
It certainly doesn't need to beall about finance, but there
has to be at least some level ofunderstanding.
This is, of course, my opinionthat you know what the financial
roles.
We look at it and for the mostpart, the man is 100%
(03:06):
responsible for providing forhis wife, but of course, you
know, with the expenses oftoday's society, with life these
days, that isn't alwaysentirely possible.
So how do you earn some extrahasanah?
By helping him out, right, as awoman, anything that you
provide in the marriagefinancially is considered
(03:28):
charity, right.
So looking at it that way is apretty excellent thing to do,
and what I would say is that itshouldn't be all about you know
the financial capabilities.
There has to be other things,right Like.
You know, there's lots of peoplewho are really well off
financially, who are muslim, butyou know they're taking credit
(03:48):
card debt, they've got, you know, a bunch of interest based
mortgages, they've got abusiness and maybe it's in, you
know, alcohol or clubs orwhatever the case may be, and so
maybe this person's amillionaire, but they're not on
their dean, right.
So it's like for for a muslimsister.
Yeah, maybe it's nice to to geta nice car and this and that,
(04:08):
but you have to understand, likethis, this money is not coming
from halal sources, so there'sno blessing in anything that's
happening with you.
So what I would say is that itshouldn't be completely out of
the topic of conversation, but,you know, as long as you can
sort of see a means for thisperson who is responsible for
(04:29):
providing for you, to make aliving and provide for both of
you guys, I think that is kindof the way to go, right.
So we know that the ProphetMuhammad basically said, like,
like something for mahar was acat, right.
Like it very, very similar.
(04:49):
You know, teaching some, somequran can be, can be part of the
mahar.
Like just very, very simple andbasic things, and those are
extremely blessed, right.
So we shouldn't completelydiscount the simplicity of of,
you know, being able to cometogether, but, at the same time,
we also live in 2025, you know,financial burdens are a reality
(05:11):
.
So, seeing a path for both ofyou to work together and move
forward, I think that'ssomething that you have to
discuss.
I think it's a matter of beingkind of frank and open and
honest, right, and I mean, Iknow it can be kind of
uncomfortable, right, but Iwould say it's better to have
all of that, you know, on thetable right away instead of
(05:34):
especially because we live inthe West, you know it not
working out going through amessy divorce.
Maybe we get kind of theWestern legal system involved,
right, everybody ends up alittle bit poorer, except for
the lawyers who are involved inthe divorce courts, all these
other kinds of things, right.
So, you know, really, justbeing honest with ourselves,
like, hey, you know what, I want?
A $50,000 meher.
(05:55):
Oh, my God, are you out of yourmind?
I'm not giving you a $50,000meher.
Well, that's what I deserve.
Okay, what makes you think youdeserve that?
Right, like, and and, if it'strue, in my opinion, if it's
truly like you meet all theother aspects of, like the Dean
that that they're looking for.
You know, some people just say$50,000 may have because it's
like, okay, they like it's justlike a wall, they're putting up
(06:17):
a wall, right.
But you know, I'm pretty suremy wife had said that about
previous guys.
They got to come up with 20,000and this and this and this, and
then she met me and,alhamdulillah, like, we made it
way more, way more simple thanthat, right?
So it's like you gotta, yougotta, I think, have those
discussions, but also understandlike there there's always a
(06:40):
little bit of wiggle room.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I'm glad you mentioned the the practice of a
woman contributing to her familyand how that is an act of
charity, because these days Imean, let's be honest a lot of
girls are out earning men andwhat we're seeing as matchmakers
is that sometimes sisters areconflating core values with
(07:02):
financial stability and they arethinking that well, to me,
income and financial stabilityis very important.
So sometimes we'll hear thingslike if he's not making 80K,
then I'm not going to entertainthat.
And, on the other hand, howmany Muslim men are actually
earning that?
So the question is are thesestandards wise or are they just
(07:24):
simply unrealistic?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, you know that's everybody's personal
business.
If you truly want to have astandard of like, if they're not
earning a minimum of 80,000,like, okay, great.
But once again I go back tookay, but what else?
Right, it can't just be money,right?
How are they earning the 80,000?
I know some Muslim brothers whoare earning, you know, 70, 80,
90,000 a year, but they work atthe bank, right?
(07:48):
So how blessed is that wealth?
Right, and you know, for it'snot even a ton of money, but you
know they're earning a goodliving, but it's.
Is it halal, right?
And to me, that's the mostimportant thing is like, is the
(08:10):
income coming into yourhousehold coming from a halal
source?
Right?
Because if it's not, like, nomatter how much you put, it, put
aside, no matter how much youthink there's financial
stability there, trust me when Isay like, this person is always
going to be in debt.
They work at it, like if theywork at the bank.
They've been trained to thinkthat going into debt is a good
idea.
They've been trained to thinkthat a mortgage is a good idea.
They've been trained to thinkthat, oh, using a credit card
isn't terrible, or using a lineof credit isn't a bad thing,
(08:32):
like, even if they're Muslim andthey still have these others.
This is what they are toldevery single day that all of
these things are good becausethey can help you buy assets and
do this, do this, do this, butlike a lot, and his messenger
will make a war with you if youare dealing in that sort of
thing and you may not see it.
Yeah, sure, he's making 80k, butmaybe you won't be able to have
(08:52):
children, right?
Maybe you won't be able to sendthem to a good school.
Maybe you won't be able to buya house.
Maybe, like, you'll end up inbankruptcy, right?
Maybe people get fired at thebank all the time and replace
the next day.
Maybe he'll lose his job, right, and all these debts that he's
accumulated.
Well, now, like, ok, now yougot to declare bankruptcy.
So you think this 80K is the beall and end all.
(09:12):
But you know, if you're riddenwith debt, dealing in interest,
have, have a life of justpaycheck to paycheck payments,
paycheck payments.
You know, someone with making40 grand a year, no debt, living
within their means, like thatmight be a much more stable and
peaceful life.
You never know.
So I would always say the firstthing that you need to look for
(09:34):
is dean, dean, like, are theyon their dean?
And everybody, we all have ourflaws, right?
Nobody's perfect, right, buthaving the set of standard, like
if he makes 80k a year, I'm notokay.
But what about?
Does he pray?
Does he?
Uh, does he go to the masjid?
Uh, how does he treat hisparents?
How does he treat his brothersand sisters?
How does he treat his friends?
(09:54):
Right, there's way more to itthan money.
How's he going to treat you?
You know what I mean and one ofthe other things that I see all
the time people who tend tomake good money.
You know, know, there's alittle not always, but there's a
little bit of arrogance there,right?
Like, oh, I'm providing, so Iget to.
You know, I'm going to boss youaround and you know you have to
do, as I say, whatever right.
(10:15):
So it can't just be the onlytopic of conversation.
And I would say look at howthey earn their income too,
because if they're not earningit in a halal way, you're going
to see problems, I promise you.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I love this.
Treat it as holistically andnot compartmentalize, but I'm
glad you spoke about debt.
Now, if there's one questionsingles should ask each other
when they're getting to knoweach other about finances, what
should that question be?
And it can't be.
Do you have that like besidesthis question?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I would.
I would be asking people likehow, what, how they view money
right, and like you know, thereare probably tactful ways to go
about that.
But like just asking them kindof, okay, you know, if know, if
you got, let's just say, let'sjust say you know, an extra 10
grand was in your accounttomorrow.
What are you doing with it?
(11:12):
Right, it's like, oh well, I'mgoing to pay off my debt.
Oh, I want to get somethingreally nice for my mother.
Right, I want to set it asidejust in case.
Right, I want to put it in themarket and invest it in a halal
way, in a halal way, you know.
And how they answer thatquestion will probably tell you.
(11:32):
You know who they are, and Iwould say that, and not always,
but I would say that, you know,not every answer is a bad answer
.
You just have to understand,kind of, where their priorities
are.
Like getting a gift for yourmother, that's great, you know.
Going out and buying a, youknow, something nice for
(11:52):
yourself?
Okay, maybe you know, but wouldyou do the same thing?
Could you live with someone whodoes the same thing?
Right, if someone's going to goand buy a Gucci purse or
whatever, if they had an extra10 grand in their, in their
account, but you're the personwho's going to set it aside just
in case something bad happens,or, uh, you know, invested in
the stock market, like you guysare very different financially,
(12:17):
it could still work.
I, I, you know, you guys are themarriage people, I'm just the
finance guy.
But, um, what I would say isthat, you know, know, you have
to understand.
Okay, if there's that gap, howare you going to make up for it?
Right?
Especially, like, if you're theguy, I'm the investment guy, I
want to put aside savings, Iwant to have an emergency fund,
(12:37):
I want to have all these thingsand this other, the woman.
This could be the man, right,the man could be that and the
woman could be the the saver,right.
But either way, like, okay, mygoal is to have x amount for my
kids, education and an emergency, and this and this and so, but
he's never gonna save anything,or she's never gonna save
(12:57):
anything.
So how am I gonna make up thatshortfall?
Because they're they're notsavers, right?
So it could still work.
But I'm just saying you eitherhave to find it where you're
both compatible financially orfigure out a way that you're
going to work around this, likeI love them so much, I don't
care if they want to spend it ona Gucci, whatever, but I'm
going to make it up by you know,maybe working an extra shift or
(13:20):
starting a business or whateverit is right.
So figuring out where that'sgoing to lead you, that's what I
would say.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I'm glad you touched upon that term,
financial compatibility becausethat's a huge topic, especially
with girls, and what I hear alot of sometimes from sisters is
that it's difficult for them toforesee a marriage where the
guy's earning less than them andto them, financial
compatibility means that they'reearning pretty much at the same
(13:50):
level.
So or he's making more rightBecause Islam prescribes men to
be the providers.
So, from working with, whetherit's couples or singles, do you
feel like there's an element oftruth to that, where marriages
are not usually more sustainablewith the wife's earning more
than the husband, or people justkind of have a very warped
(14:12):
understanding of financialcompatibility?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, I mean, once again, I think it goes back to
what everybody's preferences are.
There are some men who would beabsolutely mortified, probably
myself included, if my wife wasproviding for me and like she's
a nurse, she could if she wantedto.
You know what I mean.
But, like you know, it's kindof my responsibility in Islam to
make sure my family is takencare of, and, alhamdulillah,
(14:37):
allah has blessed me with theability to do that.
But we have to remember, right,khadijah was basically much
wealthier than the ProphetMuhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa
sallam, and she was older andall of these things right, and
she was the one who provided hisemployment initially, right, so
(14:58):
yet they had a beautifulmarriage.
Right, and we learn this fromthe sunnah right, that it's not
a one or the other scenario.
Right, and we learned this fromthe Sunnah right, that it's not
a one or the other scenario.
Right, like you could have anabsolutely beautiful marriage
with a person who earns morethan you, right, but what did he
bring to the table?
Right, he brought his character, he brought his honesty, he
brought his personality, hebrought Islam, like all of these
(15:23):
things right, and you know, shewas the wealthier one, but she
also provided him comfort, andby no means was this like lorded
over him or anything like thateither, right.
So you know, what I think ismen should certainly have the
ability and should be having theintent on providing for their
(15:44):
wife, because this is our rolein Islam, right.
But if it comes to a point, wellso, and I'll give you an
example, there's actually thiscouple that I know.
While his wife was in medicalschool, he was working like two
jobs.
I don't know exactly what hedid, but he was working two
different jobs, working reallyhard to put her through medical
school, providing for his kidswhen they were small,
(16:06):
alhamdulillah and all thesedifferent things.
And then she passed her exams,became a physician and she's
like OK, you're done, you'reretired, I'll look after things
from now on.
Right, and the kids are allgrowing up now in university,
becoming physicians andengineers and all these things
themselves.
You know he spends most of histime at the must-gen.
(16:27):
He still does other things.
He's got like real estate,investments and all these other
things, um, but you know he he'sbasically not working anymore
because she she's like okay,you've done enough for me, my
turn, my turn to do to do thisfor you.
And now he kind of just, youknow he chills I mean I wouldn't
call it chilling, but, like youknow, he provided for her in
this in this way and you knowshe felt like she would do this
(16:50):
for him now that he's he'sgetting older.
So, yeah, what I would just sayis that it's, it's all about how
you feel about it, and I wouldsay that, you know, don't
discount someone just becausethey're earning less than you,
right?
I mean, if for the sisters whoare, you know, maybe you are a
physician or an engineer or alawyer, right?
(17:11):
Like I, one of my very closestfriends, he's a librarian and
his wife is a lawyer, right,they have a beautiful marriage
and they have a very happyfamily, mashallah, right.
So you just have to look at itfor more than one thing, right?
It's not just money, like, lookat everything holistically, the
deed.
You know how you guys are goingto raise the family together,
(17:34):
all of these things, becauseit's not like you could be super
, super wealthy, you could havea guy who's earning even more
than you, but he has no time tospend with you, he has no time
to talk to his.
You know, be a father, be anyof these other kinds of things
right.
So, yeah, it should be the onlypart of the conversation.
Important, but not the onlything.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, absolutely, or he could even be stingy, right.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
If you're overwhelmed and burdened and just don't
know where to seek help, let ushelp you.
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Visit us at halalmatchca andbook a free call with us.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So let's say, there's this woman, she's established
Mashallah, she has a good career.
Maybe she even has a propertyunder her name.
And there's this guy.
He has good dean, he's kind,good personality, but he's not
there yet.
He's not broke, but he's noteven settled in his career.
(18:33):
Maybe he just even finishedschool.
Should she consider it, orshould she be more realistic?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, again, it goes back to what's important,
important to you, right?
I mean I would say that again,if he's good on dean, if you can
see him being, you know, a goodfather and a good husband, and
uh, you know he's, he's maybehe's not settled in his career,
but he's got an idea about howhe's gonna provide for the
family and, uh, you know, lookafter himself and how he's going
(19:03):
to contribute, maybe notnecessarily financially as much
as he wants to, but you know,having that idea right, getting
a sense of kind of what youreally want, because you know it
could be a situation wheremaybe he isn't quite there yet,
(19:24):
but maybe he's entrepreneurial,he's got a really good idea for
business.
It could be a situation wheremaybe he he isn't quite there
yet, but maybe he'sentrepreneurial, he's got a
really good idea for business.
It's just starting out, it'snot quite there yet, but you can
see like, if this works, youknow he's going to be very, very
successful, right, uh, but atthe end of the day, the most
important thing is like, okay,is what he's doing Halal, is he
earning Halal income and is hegood on Deen?
(19:46):
To me those are the mostimportant things.
Like I cannot stress enough.
Is the income halal?
That should be your, not.
How much is he making?
How much of the income is hemaking is halal?
I can't stress this enough.
Guys, I know so many people.
They work at banks.
They earn hundreds of thousandsof dollars a year, but they
don't have any money becauseeverything is, and maybe maybe
(20:07):
even their income is halal.
But they're taking bank loans,they're taking mortgages,
they're taking lines of credit,they're doing everything in the
haram system and now all theircash is going to, you know, car
payment and this payment, andthis payment and this payment.
It's all going to riba, right.
And so now they've got nothing,even if they're earning a good
income.
So, just like, if you take onething away from this, the income
(20:31):
, the money conversation isimportant.
How much they're making isimportant.
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Mashallah, I can see how passionate you are about the
topic.
So actually out of curiosity,was your entrance into Islam
tied to your passion forfinances and investments, or was
there something else thatattracted you to Islam?
Just out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
kind of came naturally.
So, like I was, there was afriend of mine at the mosque.
He basically made a bet with me.
He's like look, if you can finda flaw in the Quran, I'll leave
Islam right.
And so I tried and I could, andso I accepted Islam.
But then after I, after I wasworking at the, at the bank at
the time I was an investmentadvisor and they were like Okay,
go bring on, bring us clientsright.
And so I'm going.
I'm like in my newfound masjid,I'm talking to people.
I'm like, hey, you know, I'm aninvestment advisor.
(21:29):
If you guys want to talkfinance, we can sit down.
They're like we're not talkingto you.
I'm like why?
They're like because everythingyou're doing is haram.
I'm like huh, what does that ofReba?
Look at what happened withHaiti.
Look at what happenedpost-World War II.
(21:50):
Look at what happened withGhana, all these different
things.
They paid like billions uponbillions of dollars in interest
and like it destroyed thesecountries.
It very well caused the SecondWorld War and the Holocaust and
all these other kind of things.
So it's like, now that I know Ican't unsee it and it's so,
it's a very big passion of mine.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
SubhanAllah, I think I feel like the topic of riba,
like it's taken lightly, eventhough it's one of the kabair in
our deen, but we as Muslims,especially because we live in
the West, we don't even botherto look for alternatives.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And it's hard, right.
Like I don't necessarily blamepeople because, like it's so
hard to avoid it, right?
Like, even if you know youdon't take loans and you don't
do this and you don't do that,like if you don't have a credit
card, it's very.
Like, it's so inconvenient,right.
Like booking a hotel room,booking a flight, you know,
(22:49):
staying at a hotel, like all ofthese things, right?
Instead of that, you've got toput up like cash or $500
deposits and all these otherkinds of things.
Like it makes it.
It makes things so much moredifficult.
And some scholars have said,like look, you can take it, but
you've got to pay off.
Pay it off on time every single, every single month.
But then there are others wholike, no, it's haram, it's haram
.
It's haram.
Like you've signed a contractsaying you're willing to pay
(23:11):
interest if you're late, right?
So you know, and I'm not ascholar, so you got to decide
for yourselves what, what youthink is best for you and your
family.
But it's just one of thesethings like it's so easy, it's
so easy to get involved ininterest, especially in the West
, right?
So, alhamdulillah, like theguys at Manzil, they're doing
everything in their power tohelp give Muslims a path away
(23:34):
from it, but it's very, veryhard to avoid.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Subhanallah.
Even, by the way, people inMuslim countries like it's not
like people in Muslim countriesare mashallah, like they don't
deal with Ruba at all.
We just take it lightly.
Unfortunately, and maybe it'slack of education, lack of I
don't know emphasis in themasjids about the danger of riba
(23:57):
.
Like you said, allah said it'sa war.
Allah is declaring war againstpeople dealing with riba.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think there is certainly a level of
uncomfortability, like we talkedabout in the beginning, and
Muslim couples should definitelybe having these conversations
before marriage.
But the question is what tocover, because finances and
money is such a broad topic.
So what would you say are threemust discuss topics during the
(24:26):
courting phase.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I mean to me, I like, I want to know how someone's
earning their living right, likethat, to me, that's number one,
right?
How much they're making is isless important than how they are
making their wealth.
Right, so like, if this personis making tons of money but they
work at, you know, for a liquorand lotteries company, or they
work for a weapons manufacturer,or they work at a bank, you
(24:49):
know, and they're not doinghalal finance, like I would be
very, very cautious aboutproceeding.
Right, even if they'repromising you like no, no, I'll
leave, I'll find something halal, like whatever, whatever they
say, it's like okay, do it now,right, before we, before we
start our life, before we starta family, before we have kids.
Right, because what kind ofexample are you setting for for
your children?
(25:09):
Right, I'm earning a bunch ofmoney, but I'm not earning it
from a halal source, okay, sowhat's to stop, you know, your
children from going into uh, youknow haram things themselves?
What's to stop them from goinginto liquor or adult
entertainment or whatever else,or, or, or, or, cannabis or
whatever, right?
So to me, that is the mostimportant thing how are you
earning your income?
(25:29):
And if they, if they won't tellyou to me, like, okay, that's
it, we're done here, right,don't move on from that, because
if they won't tell you howthey're earning their income,
then it's probably not beingearned in a in a hollow way, um,
and as their future wife ortheir future husband, like you
deserve, deserve to know.
So that would be number one.
The second would be, kind ofthat $10,000 question what would
(25:52):
you do if you had an extra$10,000 or however much, right,
like, it doesn't have to be10,000, but what would you do
with some extra, like thisamount of extra money in your
account, right?
And how they answer thatquestion Are they going to put
it aside?
Are they going to invest it?
Are they going to invest it?
Are they going to buy something?
Are they going to spend it?
Gives you a really good senseof like, okay, how do they view
money?
Right, and then the last thingI would say is you know the
(26:12):
discussion around the mehar,right?
The mehar is, is a requirement,right?
Um?
And having that discussion kindof right away about what the
expectation is, what you want asa mehar, what you're willing to
to pay as a mehar for for theman, like, and you know any sort
of alignment there.
Number one I cannot stress thisenough is like how the person is
(26:35):
, is earning their living, andthen maybe I'd also, I'd
probably like with the mehar,I'd probably talk about okay,
listen, if I'm you guys, we are,we're doing everything in our
power to avoid ribba in ourlives, right?
So, buying a house, sure, wecan do it if we can find a halal
way.
If not, you know, we'll rent,right, um, if we, if we can't
(26:57):
afford to buy a car, we're gonnatake the bus.
Oh, you know I'll.
We'll ride our bikes everywhere, you know we'll run.
Well, whatever you need to do,right, we'll take the public
transit.
Um, because, like, having thisrub in your life, trust me, like
your life is going to be worseand far more stressful.
Like, get, do you know how?
You know how, uh, the feelingyou I'm sure you guys have you
(27:18):
had, like your professionalmatchmakers, but jobs in the
past or whatever, if you, if youhave debt, right, and this is a
whole other topic in and ofitself, but if you have debt,
especially interest-based debt,you're like, man, I cannot
afford to lose my job, I've gotthis payment, I've got this
payment, I've got this payment.
Like you're stuck, you feeltrapped, right.
But if you don't have any debtand you lose your job, I mean
(27:40):
sure there's still some expenses, but but it's not going to ruin
your life financially.
Like you, you're still gonna,you're gonna be okay.
And there's a a sense of of Iwhat's the word I'm looking for
here?
Just like a sense of safety,right, a sense of of calm, that
like, okay, if something happens, I'll be okay, alhamdulillah.
But if you have debt, Iguarantee you the people who
(28:01):
have death, they're like they'regoing to bed at night.
They're like, okay, I got this,I gotta pay this, I gotta pay
this.
Like you don't sleep well, sojust stay, stay away from it,
especially because it's interest, and the prophet muhammad,
sallallahu alayhi wasallam,would not pray janazah on people
who had debt.
So like, really, wait, save, buysomething you get for you.
If you're gonna set aside fiftydollars a month, don't buy the
(28:23):
six hundred dollar thing now.
Buy it at the end of the year,right, imagine, imagine the
barakah in just waiting, right,putting it aside and waiting.
So Ramadan is long over, but Ialways use this, this analogy in
Ramadan, right, like how gooddoes that first sip of water
feel At the end of a long day offasting, right.
(28:43):
So water, it's water, like it'severywhere, but like that first
step, it makes you feel so muchgratitude.
So, like, amplify that feelingwith whatever you want to buy.
If it's a big ticket thing,amplify that feeling by setting
it aside, putting in the work,and then buying it in cash so
that nobody owns it except foryou.
And that might be impossiblewith housing in Canada but, like
(29:08):
other things, you can do it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
The Prophet used to ask refuge from debt, like
because, like you said, it's ahuge burden and it can ruin
marriages.
But I'm glad you touched on thetopic of housing.
How can a couple, a Muslimcouple, plan for buying a house
without getting into debt Sorry,without getting into RIBA or
mortgages?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah.
So it's definitely tough,especially in Canada.
But there are two halal optionsthat I'm really comfortable
saying are halal.
One is, of course, the Menzelhalal mortgage.
I'm biased, I'm team Menzelthese days, but the Menzel halal
Mortgage, you know you put up20% of your income, they'll put
up up to 80%, you know, as longas you qualify through their
(29:51):
income and have a decent creditscore, then you know you guys
can work together.
You go into partnership to buya house and let's say you know
they divided into shares, right?
So each share will be a dollarand you guys will agree that
you'll buy out their portion ofthe shares for like $1.06, as an
example, or $1.05, $1.04,whatever the case may be right.
(30:13):
And as you're buying out theshares, you become a larger
percentage owner of the house.
They become a smallerpercentage owner until it's all
done and then it's it's yourhouse, right?
So this has been approved bymajor scholars in Canadaada,
like mufti mirza zain beg, aswell, as it's approved by aoi fi
scholars, which, if you're notfamiliar with them, they're sort
(30:35):
of an international body ofscholars based out of bahrain
who have come up with, you know,a good set of sharia standards.
So this is the, the standardsthat we follow.
And uh, and you know, mostpeople are comfortable getting a
mortgage in Halal way throughthe Menzel Halal Mortgage.
There is another company calledIkraz.
They are a competitor, but I'mnever going to say that they're
not Halal, because Mufti MirzaZainbeg has also said that this
(30:59):
product is Halal as well.
So shop, you know, check out tosee which one is best for you.
I know there are a few otherslike and some others.
I'm not as familiar with theirprocess or their.
You know who's approved it andwhatever all these different
things.
But but look around, you know,shop around.
And I would say what you can dois start making a plan to get
(31:24):
that 20% together right.
So, cause that's a lot of money, especially in like Ontario,
especially in Quebec, inVancouver, humboldt and Manitoba
, it's not too too bad.
You know you probably only needlike 80,000 to get a decent
house for a down payment, right,if you go with the 20%.
But make a plan right so youcan use some of these tools
(31:46):
right rsps, first time homebuyersaving accounts, tax-free
saving accounts get, you know,get that money invested in a
halal way so that you can getthere faster, right and save on
taxes while you're doing it.
But the you know, with thebanks, of course it'll be easier
for you.
You know you only need a fivepercent down payment, right, but
again, you'll be using Riba.
(32:06):
Look at all the things thathappen when, like, if you miss
payments, right, so with a bank,if you miss payments, the
interest, the debt keeps goingup.
Even if you've only missed itonce, even if you paid it the
next day, it's still yourmortgage costs a little bit more
, right?
So?
Like, these are things you'vegot to think about.
(32:27):
Like, if you miss the payments,they'll take your house, sell
it for a fraction of what it'sworth and likely you're still
going to have to keep keeppaying them in some way, shape
or form.
Right so like and this is wherethis is where interest can be
extreme, like, I would say, evil.
Right is because everythingabout it, for the most part,
benefits the person lending.
(32:48):
Right?
Like they have all the leverage, all the power, all these
different things.
And you, if you mess up,anytime there's a like,
everything goes against you,right?
But in in profit basedtransactions, if there is a
situation, of course you know,I'm until and I'm sure, across
does the same, we do everythingwe can to minimize those risks,
but, at the end of the day, likeif something bad happens, like
(33:10):
we're on the hook for it as wellas you, right, and so that's
why this is, you know, pure whenit comes to Islamic finance.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
So do you think that Muslim men need to step up
financially in certain ways?
Now, not just income, buthabits, planning,
responsibilities, mindset shifts.
And also, what mindset shiftsdo they need to make, would you
say?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, so this is something that, and a lot of
these are just my own personalopinions, right, but I think
that all men in marriages whoare planning to get married or
who are married, like,understand what your
responsibility is.
Your wife has absolutely noobligation to provide for you or
for your family period.
(33:57):
Right, that's on you.
So you need to find a way and,of course, like I say, make sure
that you're doing it in a halalway, you know, understand that.
Okay, like, the only way I canprovide is if I'm doing this
work or that work or whatever,but your job is to provide,
right, so, like, let's notsugarcoat it.
(34:18):
You need to step up, you needto find a way.
And if you can't find a way,like anything that comes from
right, understand that's charity.
Your wife is under noobligation to help you.
That's her money, right, if shedoes, mashallah, she's amazing.
That's charity, all thesethings, but this is on you.
What I would say is, yes,planning ahead is always a great
(34:39):
idea, right, no matter what thecircumstance.
The farther ahead that you planand it's hard to do this when
you feel like you're livingpaycheck to paycheck, but the
easier things become.
I'll give you an example.
So every single year, we havethe option to contribute to
first-time homebuyer savingaccounts and RRSPs.
Both of these things are thingsthat reduce our taxes, right?
(34:59):
So with a first-time homebuyersaving account, you can put up
to $8,000 in there per year.
Homebuyer saving account youcan put up to $8,000 in there
per year.
The way it works is that, let'sjust say, you earn $50,000 of
income, instead of thegovernment taxing the full 50,
they'll only tax 42,000, right.
So you end up saving, you know,2000,.
Maybe $3,000 in taxes, right,but $8,000 like that, that's a
(35:28):
lot of money to come up with allat once, right.
But if you start planningJanuary 1st of 2025, and instead
of putting up $8,000 all atonce, maybe you're putting aside
$500 a month and then at theend of the year, maybe you get
the holiday bonus or whatever.
Put in that extra 2000,.
Boom, you've hit the goal,right.
Or with an RSP same kind ofthing, like you get 18% of your
income per year that you can puttowards it and this will reduce
(35:48):
your taxes Once again.
This can also be used as a downpayment for your house, right,
but putting money into this alllike you have until basically
the end of February of 2026, toput money into your RSP to
reduce taxes for 2025.
But when we come to that pointin the year, most people are
like, oh, I don't have a lot ofmoney to put into my RRSP.
(36:09):
Yes, I understand, but if youhad started planning for it last
year, okay, what if you'redoing 50 a month, 100 a month,
200 a month, 300 a month?
Right, that'll make a hugedifference in how much tax you
have to pay, or you might get abigger tax refund, right?
So all of these things planningahead, financial planning, like
, yes, have have that in yourmind.
(36:30):
And if you need help mentalwealth we can help you.
There are other financialadvisors out there that can help
you as well.
And then the other part of it ismindset.
I 100% agree with this in thesense that I'm a big believer in
an abundance mindset.
Right, allah created theuniverse and all it contains.
Right, and there is no limit tohow much risk, how much wealth,
(36:53):
how much he can bestow upon anyone of us, right?
But I think the main things wehave to understand is that how
much we're going to receive isreflected in, you know, how we
view money, how we treat money,how we earn our money, you know
and be and that's not to saythat you can't earn tons of
money in a haram way, that's notto say that you can't, you know
(37:15):
, do all these things right.
But I think, having thatmindset that there is an
abundance of wealth out therefor me, that all belongs to
Allah and you know, if I strive,and I, you know, and I pursue
excellence and I do all of theseother kind of things, like, it
will come right, but do that ina halal way.
(37:35):
So that's the way I kind ofview things and the way I view
the world.
And, you know, I think it's animportant mindset to have, just
because there's no limit to howmuch Allah can bless you with
and it may not always just bemoney, right.
Look at how many like there'srich people who you know,
extremely wealthy, people, whoare, you know, suicidal and they
(37:56):
have depression and they have,you know, health issues and all
these other kinds of things.
There's a video out there wheresomeone said, okay, you know
it's just some random guy onYouTube Like, okay, I will, what
if I gave you $10 million but Itold you, uh, you couldn't wake
up tomorrow, would you take it.
No, not a single person saidwould say yes to that, right?
(38:16):
Uh, what if I, what if I wereto give you, uh, you know, two
$300,000, but you could neverwalk again, would you take it?
No, right, so, like you're rich, you're rich because so many of
these, so many of these thingspeople come up to you with with
(38:36):
monetary, like these monetarycomparisons, right, but nobody
would ever take take this dealbecause they'd rather be able to
walk or taste sugar or, youknow, run or wake up the next
day or be with their family orall these other kind of things.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have
you on here.
You'll find a safe space oflisteners who can understand
what you're going through.
Do you feel that, as an Ummah,we're becoming too materialistic
and losing sight of what reallymatters?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, I do, yes, I do.
I think that, and you know,it's one of these things that
there's nothing wrong withhaving nice things and a nice
house and driving a nice car andall of these other kind of
things.
Right?
But the Prophet Muhammad, peacebe upon him said that we are
people of the middle things.
Right, but the Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam,
said that we are people of themiddle path.
Right, don't be too extravagant, don't be miserly, don't be you
(39:39):
know, don't hoard your wealth,but don't spend it excessively.
Right, we are people of themiddle path.
So, having you know, wearing anice garment is fine, wearing a
nice watch is fine, driving anice car is fine.
But if you're doing thesethings and you don't have the
means to which a lot of peopledon't, okay.
(39:59):
So now you're, you'recompromising your islamic values
and ethics to look a certainway.
Right to drive the bmw.
I know for a fact there are abunch of people in my community,
and I'm sure other communitiestoo, who are financing on
interest Mercedes and BMWs andall these, you know, fairly
(40:20):
fancy cars, right, but they havezero savings, they have no
investments, they have no, theydon't own their house.
And I mean, look, I'm notsaying that having this BMW is
wrong, right, but taking it inRibba is a bad thing, right?
Like, if you can't afford itand you can't afford to get it
in a halal way, don't get it.
Right.
And like trust me, your lifewill be better without the BMW,
(40:43):
right?
If you buy it cash, that's adifferent story.
But if you take it on interest,trust me like, you're going to
be less wealthy, I promise you.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, yeah, I feel social media has a major effect
and influence.
You could say, like we seethings that travel and cars and
whatever, and we start likecomparing and we want to have it
.
But speaking of cars, zaid hasan interesting car story, so he
brought this car with him fromChicago and it was what?
(41:15):
2008 or what?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, 2008.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It was coming apart, like one day we would be driving
and rust would fall from thecar.
But subhanAllah, he's like I'mnot buying a car with money I
don't have and alhamdulillah,now we have like a much nicer
one, but it's worth it.
It's a really nice feeling.
You feel like you earned it.
You worked for it.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
For sure, but going along the vein of planning
things and those conversationsthat couples should be having,
what's your take on mergingfinances?
Are you either for jointaccounts, separate accounts, is
there some kind of hybrid?
What do you think has workedbest in your experience?
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So I can only tell you what I do and from what I
see.
So, like, we keep it for themost part separate, my wife and
I, and the reason we do isbecause you know I do handle, I
would say, 90% of the bills.
The main things that she'll dois like daycare stuff or stuff
(42:21):
with kids, things like that,alhamdulillah.
You know she works really hardas a nurse.
But you know the one thing Idon't really want to and this is
just my, I don't want to be.
You know the one thing I don'treally want to, and this is just
my, I don't want to be.
You know, looking into how shespends her money, right, I've
kind of came to the conclusionwhen we were first courting each
(42:41):
other and whatever the case maybe, that you know she's, she's
not really a saver right, she'ssafe sometimes, but not not not
super, it's not super saverright.
So, hamdala, like but I kind ofyou know she's great in every
other way Like she's great onDean, super great family values,
(43:05):
my family really liked her, allthese different things.
So you know, but, hamdala, I'vegot a plan to kind of make all
that up, where I'm setting moneyaside for our kids education
every month and I've got someother things for, you know, our
kids future, and I've got thisgoing on for retirement and that
going on for for business andyou know just all these things.
(43:27):
So, you know, would like haveit.
So, personally, I don't want tobe that person Like, why did you
spend this money, why did youspend that money?
Right?
It's different if they come toyou and they're like, oh yeah,
and they start complaining abouttheir finances.
Then I'll be like, okay, well,take me through your day, how do
you spend your money?
Right.
(43:47):
But you know, in a marriagesometimes that makes things
worse than it does better.
Um, so you know, to me I wouldsay it's it's more, it's more
about personal preference.
But, like my wife and I, we wedo keep it separate, um, but
then, on the other hand, what Iwould say is uh, you know, it
(44:09):
just depends on whether or notyou guys have common financial
goals too, right?
Sometimes it can help seeingyour entire income as sort of
one thing.
Right, if both you have thecommon goal of okay, we're going
to hedge in five years, right?
Okay, combined collectively,we're both saving, we're both
(44:29):
earning.
You know, let's say, we've got10,000 a month between the two
of us, or 8,000, or 6,000, right, okay, let's set this amount
aside for Hajj, and then therest goes to our bills and our
expenses and all these otherkinds of things.
So looking at all of your moneyfor that common goal can be
very, very powerful, right, butit just has to be kind of in the
cards for your marriage, asthey say.
(44:51):
It has to be something thatboth of you are prepared to do.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Okay, let's take it back to singles.
What financial habits do youthink single people should have
start developing to prepare themfor marriage?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I think, first and foremost and this isn't just
single people, this is everybodystart making saving and
investing a habit from day one,from yesterday, from six months
ago.
Start making saving andinvesting a habit right now, and
it doesn't have to be a lot.
A lot of people think and havethe mindset of okay, I need to
(45:27):
get a bunch of money togetherbefore I start investing, before
I start saving, before I startsetting it aside.
But what I would tell you isstart doing it now, right,
because there's always going tobe a reason to not invest and to
not set money aside.
I've got this bill, I've gotthat bill I've got.
I got to say I've got to dothis, I've got to do that,
(45:52):
somebody needs help, I need tothat.
That is always going to bethere.
So if you don't prioritize itnow, when you've got nothing,
then when you start earning likeas we get older, generally
speaking, we start to earn moremoney.
We've got more experience,we've got more professional, you
know, credibility, all theseother kind of things, and so
with that tends to come moremoney and but if you don't make
saving and investing a prioritywhen you have very little, then
when you have more and it canhave more of an impact.
(46:14):
You're not going to have thosehabits in place to benefit you
or your family financially aswell.
So, you know, even if you're,maybe, maybe you just are, maybe
you're in university or you're,you know, just finishing high
school, maybe you got your firstjob, whatever the case may be,
start making those habits now,right, maybe it's $50 a month,
(46:36):
maybe it's $25 a month, maybeit's $25 a paycheck it doesn't
have to be a lot, but dosomething, and do something
always, right, even if you loseyour job, like, still try to
keep that habit of putting somemoney aside for yourself.
And you'll find that if youstart very, very small and it
should feel effortless I alwayssay this to all my clients if
(46:58):
you've never invested before, ifyou've never saved before,
start small, make it consistent.
It should feel effortless,right, because if it feels
effortless, then you're going tobe able to do more than you're
going to do it forever, right,and that's what.
That's what I want to see.
I want to see everybodystarting into those habits of
setting money aside.
Even if you're earning a smallamount of money, you can set
(47:20):
aside a small amount of money.
And one thing I always say andthis isn't necessarily the most
Islamically sound advice in thispersonal point but put some
money aside for yourself, nomatter what, every paycheck,
because at the end of the day,like you can't call your phone,
like if you pay your phone bill,pay your phone to pay bills,
right, but if something comes upand there's an emergency, you
(47:41):
can't call Rogers or you can'tcall hydro, or you can't call
whoever and say hey, listen, youknow I just paid you $200.
But I need that money backbecause something came up.
They're gonna be like are youout of your mind?
No, hang up, right.
So you know, have somethingaside for yourself, even if it's
a little bit.
Have something for yourselfjust in case it emerges, so that
(48:01):
you don't have to go into debt,go into a credit card, do a
payday loan, any of these things, because that is that will
crush you.
So, yeah, get into those habits, inshallah, and do it early.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Do you recommend people who have debt to start
investing, or first clear theirdebt and then start?
Speaker 1 (48:19):
So I would say and again, this isn't the most
Islamically sound advice butstart investing something right
and just enough so that you havesomething in case of an
emergency, right?
So I would say, you know, dolike the 80-20 rule.
If you've got $100 extra or $50extra, 80% of that, put that
(48:39):
towards debt, but 20% take thatand set it aside for yourself.
And this isn't because you wantto stay in debt or whatever the
case may be, but this is justin case something happens.
I don't have to go back intodebt, I don't have to deal with
Uriba again, I've got some cashfor myself.
So that's what I would say.
I know the sort of Islamicopinion would be pay off the
(49:02):
debt, pay off the debt, pay offthe debt.
And I would say, yes, but wewant to avoid going into debt
again in the future, right, sohave something there to you know
, bridge that gap.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
What are some halal investment strategies Muslim
couples can start looking into,or someone single wants to start
building for the future?
Where do they even begin?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah.
So I mean I think the firstthing and the easiest thing for
everybody to do everybody shoulddo this like when you're done
listening to this podcast, go doit right away.
Open up a tax-free savingaccount.
You can get a halal, tax-freesaving account with Menzil or
with Wealthsimple.
And then the good thing aboutthe tax-free saving account is
(49:44):
it can be taken care of in ahalal way.
Number one and number two isyour money isn't stuck right.
So you can put up to seventhousand dollars a year into the
tax-free saving account.
Any profit you earn is tax-freeand you can get that money out
anytime.
Right, but open that tax-freesaving account, start setting
money aside, even if it's alittle bit.
Twenty five dollars a month,fifty dollars a month try to be
(50:05):
as consistent as you can.
And then, of course, when themoney is in the tax-free saving
account, if you're with Munzilor Wealthsimple or some other
advisor who does things in ahalal way, the money in there
would get invested in a halalway.
So all the profits you earn youdon't have to worry about oh,
is it riba, Is it in somethingharam?
(50:26):
That'll be taken care of foryou.
So if you don't do anythingelse from a financial
perspective and from aninvestment perspective.
Just open up your tax-freesaving account and put money in
there, and what I would say topeople is if all you do for the
rest of your life is maximizeyour tax-free saving account
every single year, you will beincredibly well off financially.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Okay, it sounds easy enough.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Simple, not easy.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I guess what about investment options Like where
can a Muslim invest to havehalal way, like halal investment
?
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, so there are a couple options that you have.
There's Wealthsimple.
Again, they're a competitor ofours, so they're terrible.
Don't know, I'm just kidding,but Wealthsimple does have.
Wealthsimple does have, have ahalal investment option.
You can open up an accountthere.
You can also open up an accountwith Menzel.
That's the better option.
We're with Team Menzel, that'sthe better option by Muslims for
Muslims, right.
(51:28):
But you can open up an accountwith Manzil, and you know you
can open up a tax free savingsaccount with Manzil.
And then we have a bunch ofdifferent halal investment
options.
We have the Manzil halalmortgage fund.
We have one vest halal ETF.
We have some funds from Shariaportfolios, hlal, gold and
silver funds.
We have a whole bunch ofdifferent funds that have been
(51:49):
screened by scholars and insuredto be halal.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Okay, and what's your take on stocks?
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Stocks can be halal.
They just have to be taken careof in a halal way, right?
So when you look at differentstocks, it can be a bit
confusing, because it's like,okay, you know, what does this
company do?
Oh, you know, first of all,their business, right?
So the business that they'redoing has to be halal, right?
You can't invest in an alcoholcompany or a tobacco company.
(52:20):
I've got a quiz for you, a popquiz for you guys Do you think
it's halal to invest in Boeing?
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Boeing no.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
They make planes right.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
No.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
No, but they make war planes.
They make war planes, right.
So a lot of people will come tome.
They're like, hey, do you thinkI should invest in Boeing?
It's like, why?
Because they make planes,planes are halal, yeah, but what
are those planes?
Do let's?
Let's take a look at some ofthe planes in Israel's army,
right?
But we got to look, you got tolook at, you got to look at
these things, right?
So you know, looking at thingslike whether or not they deal in
(52:51):
cannabis or alcohol or gamblingor tobacco or adult
entertainment, all of this.
There are a lot of companiesthat are publicly traded that
deal in these things.
So so you have to find outwhere, like you know how the
stock is making its money, likewhere they so Apple, for example
.
Like they, they sell computersand software and all these other
kind of things, so they couldbe considered a halal company to
invest in, right?
(53:12):
So figuring out where they maketheir money, how they make
their money, and then all thesethings.
So you could do all that workand figure it out for yourself
and spend hours and hoursreading charts and all these
things.
Or you could come to Menzel andlet us do it for you.
And then you, just you know yourelax, You're good at marketing
, I'll give you that, and youjust you know you relax, You're
good at marketing, I'll give youthat Okay.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
So yeah, let's wrap up with how anybody can reach
out to you for your services.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Yeah, so the best way to reach us would be you could
go to menzelca backslash wealthWith that.
You know, we've got a team offinancial advisors all across
the country uh, here to help you.
So we've got people in Quebec.
If you're looking for help, uh,you know, and you want service
in French.
We got people there.
We've got people in the GTA.
(54:02):
We've got people in in AlbertaUh, I myself I'm in Manitoba.
We've got a brother out in BC.
So you have all these differentpeople, depending on where you
live, that can help you and setthings up with you.
And if you want a personal callwith me, we can do that too.
Jessiemanzowealthca, that's myemail.
That's the best way to get intouch with me and we can look at
(54:24):
your situation.
I do work with clients allacross the country.
So whatever you need, we'rehere to help you.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Cool.
Inshallah, we'll share all thisinformation in the description
of the episode.
And, guys, if you're seriousabout getting married, don't
skip the money conversation.
Don't make my mistake.
Alhamdulillah I got lucky, butdon't skip it.
It's uncomfortable, but justfind smart ways to go about it.
And the most important thing wetake from you, jesse, is just
(54:50):
make sure the money earned ishalal.
It's earned in a halal way.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Of course and if your brain feels full I'm sure
Hiba's brain does too You're notalone.
So that was a lot ofinformation, but hopefully gave
you guys some real tools to havethese conversations in your own
life, whether you're courting,committed or just financially
confused.
And also if it did help youshare with a friend who's
looking to get married or justloves to spend a lot of money at
(55:16):
costco thank you so much, jesse.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
We've learned a lot, a lot to think about after we
turn off the mic, inshallah.
But thank you for your time andthank you, our beautiful
listeners.
We'll see you next time okay,just assalamu alaikum everyone.
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