Masculinity in Crisis: Between Toxic and Weak w/ Dr. Omar Husain

Masculinity is either glorified or vilified, and single Muslims often pay the price. Women get told to avoid “dominant” men, while men are told to tone themselves down to avoid being toxic. The result? Confusion, frustration, and marriages built on false expectations.

In this conversation with Dr. Omar Husain, we confront the uncomfortable truths about masculinity in Islam. Men are challenged to stop outsourcing their growth and step into real responsibility. Women are pushed to look beyond smooth talk and test whether a man’s character is already rooted in faith.

If you think masculinity in Islam just means providing for the family, think again. This episode will make you question the assumptions shaping your search for marriage.

If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
What is the most important thing you have learned
from the Masjid?
You know, when we came, we hada lot of baggage.
You guys don't have a lot ofbaggage.
And I'm thinking to myself oh,we got plenty of baggage.
We have so much baggage, right,we just didn't.
Our flight was shorter, wedidn't pack it and come across.
We have plenty of baggage.
And from those are things likethis toxic masculinity and, you

(00:39):
know, making men and womenenemies of each other.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
And I'm Zaid.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah, assalamu alaikumeveryone, welcome to another
episode of Diary of a Matchmaker.
I'm Zaid and on the other micis my wife and co-host, hiba.
So just the other day,alhamdulillah, we got an
interesting story.
It was a funny story actually,about an imam who also happened

(01:19):
to be a counselor that wascoming to advise his young
students of knowledge.
That was coming to advise hisyoung students of knowledge.
He arrived late and apologizedand said to his students that,
sorry about that, I was delayedcounseling a couple who wasn't
ready for marriage.
The students asked oh, werethey too young?
What happened?
And he said, no, they were justsimply too stupid.

(01:44):
And we read this story and itreally hit home for us because
of course, we're professionalmatchmakers and we run into
situations like this a lot.
But the also interesting partis that one of the students is
our guest today, dr Omar Hussain, who studied Islamic sciences
at Al-Azhar University and holdsa PhD in counselor education

(02:05):
and supervision from theUniversity of Texas at San
Antonio.
He's also a fitness instructor,licensed professional counselor
in Texas, and serves thecommunity as an imam and
educator.
Thank you for coming on as aguest, dr Omar Jazakallah
khairan.
Pleasure to be here, thank you.
So I'm assuming some of yourwork kind of delves into

(02:28):
premarital training and gettingpeople ready for marriage.
So do you run into situationslike this, like in the story,
where people just simply aren'tready for marriage?

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yes.
So I deal with marriage reallyat just about every stage so
premarital, marital,post-marital, people that have
been married for 20 years, 30years, so this is definitely not
uncommon, this story when itcomes to particularly maybe that

(03:02):
college-ish age, when peopleare getting a little bit more
serious about pursuing marriage.
But you know, it also is howthe marriage was approached
right.
So a lot of times I think a lotof conflict can be avoided if,
for example, the guy and girlhad just gotten their family
involved rather than kind ofdoing all this stuff behind

(03:24):
everybody's back, even if it waspermissible.
It isn't always thoserelationships are not always,
they're not always doing theright thing, but even when they
are doing the right thing, Iwould still argue that they
should have gotten theirfamilies involved and it could
have saved a lot of headache.
Actually, I wouldn't need toargue that they should have done
that.
So that's where that sort ofcame in.
But yeah, pretty much any stagein every stage we can think of

(03:47):
in marriage.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Have you come across situations where the guy and
girl were excited about marriage, they planned everything and
they come to you just for somepremarital counseling and then,
through the counseling, theydiscovered that there are
completely different in terms oflike values and vision?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, that's a great question, because I think, in
essence, premarital counselingshould be to sort of see if
you're compatible with the otherperson.
But I get a lot of people thathave sort of already made that

(04:25):
decision.
So now it's still good becausethey want to know, for example,
about marital rights andresponsibilities Islamically, or
you know what some of theobligations are, which is good.
I mean, they're certainly doingtaking those steps, but they've
kind of already made thedecision, and so there have been
times where perhaps there wassome red flags raised in some of

(04:48):
the responses, but they stillsort of go through with it.
So, you know, they just have tounderstand the decision that
they're making, but I find thatthey're pretty much going to go
with it.
You know, regardless of whathappens.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Interesting.
There's a lot of things thatcome up when girls, especially,
are searching for.
Two things that typically comeup for us are leadership and
masculinity.
Now, masculinity is such a hottopic, or has been for some time
, especially the term toxicmasculinity, and that usually
gets associated with the nameAndrew Tate for some reason.

(05:24):
But how would you definemasculinity in a way that's
grounded in Islam but alsorelevant for men living in the
West?

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, the baseline for us is we are Muslims Like
that's.
We start there and then wefigure everything else out.
So a lot of times, you know,these terms get people very
passionate and lead to a lot ofarguing.
So one of the things I want toknow is why, right Before

(05:56):
condemning, before supporting, Iwant to know why.
Why do people feel a certainway about different terms, feel
a certain way about, about aboutdifferent terms?
So let's start with masculinity, and I know I'm sure we'll get
to toxic masculinity later, butreally I mean islamically, I
would say, for masculinity,think responsibility,

(06:18):
responsibility in front of allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala.
That's sort of the baseline.
So it's not.
We don't define it by dominance, by overpowering, by arrogance.
It's about integrity, it'sabout service to your family,
it's about service to societyand it's also about service to

(06:41):
yourself, because the Prophettold us that إِنَّ لِجَسَدِكَ
عَلَيْكَ حَقٌّ.
Your body has a right over you,and sometimes people neglect
that as well.
It's not only about service toothers, it's also about yourself
and your relationship withAllah.
So it's not about that sort ofbravado and these kinds of
manufactured things, but it'sabout responsibility and service

(07:04):
, and that's a different way oflooking at it.
The Prophet was very strong andcourageous.
He absolutely was, but he wasalso compassionate.
He was also gentle with hisfamily.
He was available to hiscompanions.
You know how many times we seenarrations like the companions
came to the Prophet and they hadsome issue or problem.

(07:26):
Right, that's counseling.
Just because it's not in anoffice space or it doesn't have
some board, uh fancy lettersattached to it, that fundamental
process of seeking counsel withsomeone who is perhaps more
experienced or moreknowledgeable or can guide,
whatever the case may be, that'salways sort of been there.
So the Prophet had all of thoseand that is the model for

(07:51):
masculinity.
So I don't think we need to beconfused with all of these, you
know, fancy philosophies andthings that come out of
primarily the university systemwhich I teach in and I've gone
through, because we have abaseline and that's the Prophet
and that's what it's measured by.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
I see and I like, sorry, go ahead, hiba.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
No, I just recalled an incident Like about two years
ago.
We had a person, a guy, who wasinterested in our service and
we had him fill a registrationform and answer questions and
through the questions, like herevealed that he believes his
role as a man, like hismasculine role is or, like you
said, his responsibility is todiscipline his wife.

(08:36):
And when we dug a little bitdeeper we discovered that he had
some I would say maybe someviolent tendencies.
We discovered that he had someI would say maybe some violent
tendencies.
So do you think there are likeI know this is not a very common
misconception that guys have,but what are some misconceptions
, guys?

Speaker 1 (08:56):
have about masculinity.
So I think this idea ofphysical dominance without any
sort of boundaries right.
So again, let's take thatsentence.
My job is to discipline my wife.
Like what exactly does thatmean?
Right?
Maybe it could be worded a lotbetter Now it looks like in this

(09:17):
case, when you dug deeper, itwasn't right.
But ultimately in the marriagethere are partners helping each
other to grow.
So I would hope that my life,my wife, would make me more
disciplined as a man, and Iwould hope she would want or she
would become more disciplinedas a result of what I'm doing.
That's very positive.
That's different than sort ofjust dominating, not listening,

(09:41):
shutting down and just saying dothis and do that, not listening
, shutting down and just sayingdo this and do that Right.
And that also comes in amisunderstanding of roles, of
when we say you know, the man isleading the flock over the
household, Right?
So people don't understandthese things.
They don't understand how theProphet Sallallahu Assalam lived
.
They kind of take what theywant and then they put their own
spin on it.
So a lot of men are told likemanhood is just financial status

(10:06):
, and I would argue that cutsacross all cultures.
In fact some have taken it sofar that they think that's the
only responsibility that theyhave.
So, yes, you are financiallyresponsible, but that's not all
that manhood is.
That's not all being masculine,that's not the only thing that.

(10:26):
It's about Emotional detachment, right.
Yes, there's certain limits andrestrictions and we have
different natures as men andwomen, but to just always be
emotionally detached is not avery healthy thing for yourself,
for your family.
But this is also anothermisconception that this is how

(10:48):
men are supposed to be, and someI mean, unfortunately, when we
talk about sort of physicaldominance, they go completely
overboard, you know, withstriking and hitting their kids,
or you know, hitting theirspouses, which obviously has
gone way beyond anything.
So, but these are some of themisconceptions and you know,

(11:08):
going back to why do peoplebelieve these things.
So this is what attracts peoplesometimes to these philosophies
, because when you don't have ahealthy balance, people tend to
go to extremes.
So, and that's true for men andwomen.
So, if you look at somethinglike feminism, okay, let's take
a step back, and I'm certainlynot defending or supporting

(11:30):
anything about feminism.
I'm just saying let's justthink about this for a second.
Why did that come about?
Well, it came about as a resultof thinking that women are not
being treated fairly.
That women are not beingtreated fairly Okay, so that
makes sense.
If they're not being treatedfairly, then we need to do
something so that they are right.

(11:52):
But Islamically we have ourroles and we sort of have how
men and women are supposed tointeract with each other,
particularly in a maritalrelationship.
So we don't need philosophiesto come in and tell us that this
needs to be done and that needsto be.
We need action and of course,we're going to sometimes fall
short of that.
But that's why the, the, thefoundations of a marriage are

(12:12):
forgiveness, mercy, overlookingshortcomings, not demanding
rights, but trying to fulfillour rights for the other, Like
that's all part of therelationship.
So we need action more.
We don't need these types ofphilosophies.
But when you start pushing menin a corner and saying just the
very idea that you're a man istoxic, then you're going to get
reactions and you're going toget people that are attracted to

(12:33):
figures and philosophies thatare going to the other extreme,
which is always unhealthy.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, I want to come back to what you just said
before, which is masculinitywith the understanding of
service, because there's afamous hadith by Aisha where she
said about the Prophet وَكَانَفِي خِدْمَةِ أَهْلِهِ that he
was always in service to hisfamily, and I feel like that's a
part of the seerah and a partof the Prophet that's always

(13:03):
overlooked that he was milkinghis own goat, he was stitching
his own clothes and he wasalways in service to his family,
despite how busy and despitehow big of a responsibility that
was.
So if you could expand uponthat a bit more and how that
shapes our understanding ofmasculinity, yeah, so this is an
example of deviating from.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, so this is an example of deviating from the
real masculinity, which isprophetic masculinity, and
cultural norms overpowering it.
Now, islam has nothing againstculture.
It doesn't.
Islam didn't come to destroyculture.
If we were in the time of theProphet and we looked at Abu

(13:46):
Bakr and we looked at Abu Jahl,they dressed kind of the same.
They ate pretty much the samefoods.
Their entertainment of going topoetry sessions was kind of the
same.
Now, of course, the Muslim hassome boundaries.
Right, there wasn't.
They weren't listening toinappropriate poetry.
They had some dietaryrestrictions.
Right, they had restrictions ofwhat needs to be covered on the
body.
But generally speaking, thatwas the same culture.
Islam didn't come to wipe allof that out.

(14:08):
So whatever was compatible andfits, great, there's no problem
with that.
But when something clashes withIslamic principles, then we
throw out the culture.
And this is an example where weneed to throw out the culture
when it comes to service of thefamily, because the Prophet did

(14:29):
mend his own shoes and he sweptthe floors and a lot of times
the expectation after marriageis that the man basically
doesn't do any of that stuff.
The man basically doesn't doany of that stuff, and to the
point sometimes where those whodo, now their mom is coming and

(14:49):
saying why are you doing this?
Right, and what kind of wifedid you marry that she doesn't
do this?
And so now you have this wholedynamic where there's tension
very unnecessary becausesomebody is trying to help,
right, so they're overlooking.
Okay, the man is responsiblefor the family, the woman is

(15:11):
responsible for the household,okay, fine, if they're both
working a nine to five.
We have to take that intoconsideration.
And quite often now, themothers who were saying this
they were living, it was adifferent life.
Right, I understand.
Now, the stuff is expensive.
This they were living, it was adifferent life, I understand.
Now, the stuff is expensive,it's hard.
So sometimes you don't have achoice.

(15:31):
I'm not going to judge anyonefor what their personal
circumstances are, but we haveto keep all of these into
account.
So what happens is that theculture becomes dominant here,
where the man doesn't doanything around the household
and it's just left up to the,the woman, to do it all.
Uh, and that is not propheticexample.

(15:52):
You also made a great point.
Uh, nobody can tell me theywere busier than the prophet
sallallahu alaihi was.
Like, give me a break.
He was the imam, he was the,the leader of his people, he was
the statesman, he was thekhatib.
Like don't, don't give me this,that you were more busy than
the Prophet, right, he wasconstantly in service to his

(16:12):
community and doing dawah right,and living all while living a
humble life by choice.
So I remember one time there wasone of the scholars.
He was talking about how theProphet used to serve his family
in his home and you know, hesaid something like you know how

(16:34):
many of you like sweep thefloor or work in the house, and
some people raise their handlike you don't do that because
you're the man, right, it's like, yeah, I'm the man.
And he said, are you a biggerman than the Prophet?
So it got kind of awkward.
I mean, he called them out, buthe made his point, right, he
made his point.
So these are cultural thingsand this only is overcome with

(16:59):
education.
It's overcome with educationand practice.
So you're not less of a man ifyou're helping around the
household.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
You heard that, guys.
What about now?
Toxic masculinity Like we hearthis term everywhere, Like, on
one hand, we see a lot ofaccounts, for example, and
services for men to embracetheir manhood and go back to
their manhood, and, on the otherhand, toxic masculinity.

(17:29):
Why is it suddenly everywhereand what is it?

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah.
So again, this goes back tosort of going to an extreme.
So maybe you started with?
So maybe you started with thisidea that women were not being
treated fairly and so we need toimplement things to do that.
And now we just take it to awhole level where it's like

(17:54):
normal and fashionable to likemale bash, right?
So this is again.
This is a term like who made upthis term?
Right, these terms just kind ofcome in and they poison our
communities and, I would argue,poison society.
How about we reframe it and say, uh, instead of toxic max
masculinity, let's say it's adeviation from prophetic

(18:14):
masculinity, okay.
So again, our prophet is thestandard.
So, being strong yet gentle,okay, being compassionate yet
humble.
One time, a group of likeleaders, they walked into the
gathering where the Prophet waswith his companions and they

(18:35):
said where is the Prophet?
And we can basically stop rightthere the fact that they
couldn't even recognize who theleader was because he was just
sitting with his people.
Now, is there any world leadertoday that you could?
You would instantly know youwould never even get that close,
right?
So, uh, that is a level ofhumbleness and connection,

(18:59):
actual connection with, with thepeople, and you know there
natural masculine qualities andthat's great.
So strength, leadership, healthyassertiveness, these are
masculine qualities and theseare very good and there's no
reason to shy away from them orpretend they don't exist.
But when they get twisted intoarrogance or they get twisted

(19:22):
into emotional repression orcontrol at all costs, that's
when we have a problem.
So maybe the people that usethis term toxic masculinity are
referring to that, but I don'tgive them that much credit
because I don't think they thinkthat deeply about these things.
I think they truly are comingfrom a place of like everything

(19:43):
is just bad about maleness ingeneral.
But really what it is is it'staking these qualities, these
very positive qualities, andthey are just sort of again
going to those extremes andgetting twisted out of what they
should be.
So it's not masculinity itselfthat's toxic.
Toxic.

(20:08):
It's when men are using thosetraits to harm, to not serve and
to go around theresponsibilities that they're
supposed to be serving.
That's when the problem comesin.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
I feel like we have all the answers in Ardene.
But for some reason, becausewe've put our culture whether
it's our back home culture orit's the Western culture, we put
it like above our deen, then westart importing these problems
that if we, just like you said,follow the deen, we don't have
these problems to begin with.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, 100 percent, I mean, and there's there's no
question about it, these andthis is why people are attracted
to us, why people are attractedto islam.
Still, despite all of the smear, despite all of the campaigns,
despite whatever is happening,there's still an attraction and
an appeal to islam, because it'slike this is appealing to a
very natural way.
Yes, it's ridiculous to saythat men and women are supposed

(20:58):
to be exactly the same and theonly difference is is
physiologically.
That that's like the dumbestthing you could ever think of.
Right, if we're hanging out atmy house and it's midnight and I
mean my kids are much younger,but if my son is 18 and my
daughter is 17 and the family islike, hey, we feel like getting
some ice cream, buteverything's closed, can

(21:19):
somebody run to the store and goget it?
My son is going to go get it.
I'm not sending my daughter togo get it.
And everybody, even if theyhave no belief in anything from
a natural fitrah standpoint,understands yes, of course the
son is supposed to go.
So to like pretend that that'snot the right thing or somehow
I'm devaluing my daughterbecause I'm sending my son is

(21:41):
just foolishness.
But that is getting all of thatcultural nonsense mixed in.
You know, I get a kick out ofthis because one time one of the
elders in the community andhe's from one of those in the
community I was in, you know whokind of founded the masjid and
really a pioneer of thecommunity, and he was saying
something you know like to meand he's like you know, when we

(22:03):
came we had a lot of baggage.
You guys don't have a lot ofbaggage and I'm thinking to
myself oh, we got plenty of that.
We have so much baggage, right,we just didn't.
Our flight was shorter, wedidn't pack it and come across
we have plenty of baggage.
And from those are things likethis toxic masculinity and, you
know, making men and womenenemies of each other and all

(22:24):
these kinds of things.
This is, this is our baggage.
So don't, don't tell me nobodyhas baggage just because they
didn't immigrate from anothercountry.
We all have plenty of baggage.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Subhanallah.
That's funny.
You said that's what attractspeople to Islam.
Now, I don't know if you feelcomfortable asking this question
, but someone like Andrew Tate.
He said what attracted him toIslam in the beginning was
masculinity, the cleardifference between men and women

(22:54):
, and masculinity and femininity, and all of that.
And then he comes and juststarts spreading some extreme
ideas.
How do you think this happened,going from this to that?

Speaker 1 (23:07):
So I think I'll sort of speak generally rather than
about a specific individual.
So we have to remember, whensomeone is in the public eye,
even after Islam, there's goingto be all kinds of things that
are sort of still there, right.
The other thing that I don'tlike in general is when people

(23:33):
convert to Islam, especiallywhen they have a some sort of
public profile, we kind of putthem to the front of, in front
of everybody and I think that'slike our own, that's our own
issues we we need to workthrough, but we sort of force
them in front of everybody tolike become a spokesman.

(23:54):
And they are going through aprocess, just like everybody
else is going through a process.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
yeah, and we wipe away their previous life pretty
much.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Right and there's a lot that they have to deal with
and it's unfair to make themhave to deal with it in front of
millions of people.
So people have said things inthe past.
People still have certain ideasthey're trying to work through.
They don't understand, right.
That's a greater problem that Ihave.
So obviously now they come andthey say something ridiculous

(24:33):
which is against Islamicteaching, then it affects
everybody.
So that's a greater problem.
I think, when we're givingthese huge platforms to people
and we should just give themtime, you know, time to grow and
that's the importance of havingmentors to kind of advise them.
Like, hey, you know, you'vesaid some of these things,
you're doing some of thesethings.
Let's sort of work through thisrather than just here, go in

(24:55):
front of everybody.
And now you have, you know,young men who feel alienated and
pushed aside because, asthey're going through school,
they're just told that they'rethe problem and they have to
just bend backwards.
You're telling a three-year-oldboy sit still for an hour and a
half in class.
Who's telling him?
Some middle-aged white ladyteacher is the one who's telling
him.
What are you talking about?

(25:15):
A three-year-old is not goingto sit still.
I've tried this.
They don't sit still.
You shouldn't sit still.
Yeah, exactly when you look atthe studies.
Like boys they like to playwith, like wheeled things, like
of course they do.
Dads are supposed to wrestlewith their boys, right, and show
affection to the daughters Notin the same way, of course.

(25:37):
But then we have the problem of, like, no affection to the
daughters and only with the boys.
That's episode number two.
No affection to the daughtersand only with the boy, that's
episode number two.
But yeah, so pushing them infront just makes it complicated
for everybody.
And so some of these ideas thatthey hold or that they're
spreading they haven't learnedthemselves or they're old sort

(25:57):
of clips coming back and there'sjust so much out there that
this is something we really needto think about.
So I, just at a simple level, Idon't like public Shahadas in
the masjid.
When somebody converts, I willask them do you want to do this
in front of everybody?
You don't have to, and it's upto them.
So I've had sometimes.
I said no, I don't want to doit in front of others.
I said, great, I'm just givingyou the choice.

(26:20):
I hate when people arerecording.
You have no idea.
Their family members arewatching those recordings right
their family members who hateIslam, and now they're going to
find them online saying theShahada right.
I just don't like that.
These are deeper things tothink about in our communities.
Wallahuala yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Interesting.
I know, Zaid, you have lots ofquestions, so I'll give you some
space.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
You touched upon leadership, and of course,
leadership is a quality thatgirls are always looking for.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
How can women recognize a man's leadership
potential in a way that alignswith Islamic principles.
Okay, so the first thing yousaid was that they're looking
for leadership.
So admit that you're lookingfor leadership.
Don't act like you're notlooking for leadership.
So admit that you're lookingfor leadership, don't act like
you're not looking forleadership.
That's very, very importantBecause I agree, I think they do

(27:16):
want leadership to a certainlevel, but you're not really
going to know that withoutunderstanding the roles of men
and women in Islam and in themarital relationship.
So that's very important tostart with.
And then it goes back to whatdoes that leadership look like?
So, again, leadership is not dothis, and I don't want to hear

(27:40):
anything from you.
That's not what Umm Salama didwith the Prophet in the Treaty
of Hadeibiyyah, right when hesought her counsel.
And again, that goes back towho our role model is and who is
the person that we look tothrough all the noise and the
nonsense.
So, first of all, understandand recognize that you do want

(28:03):
that leadership.
To begin with, because you doright, because when it's 12
o'clock at night and the trashneeds to get thrown out, you're
not throwing it out.
Your husband is going to throwit out.
Okay, and don't act like you'regoing to go and throw it out.
And that is not faulting orthinking anything less of
anybody.
That's how it should be.
If there's a noise outside attwo in the morning, you're not

(28:25):
supposed to go outside.
Could you imagine if you'relying in bed and there's a noise
at two in the morning and youturn to your wife and you're
like did you hear that?
Yeah, would you mind going andchecking that out?
All right.
And then she's like are youcrazy?
No, I'm not Okay.
And then you call your kids hey, son, would you mind going and

(28:45):
checking out what's happeningoutside?
Does anybody want to be marriedto somebody like that?
That is no right.
So let's not act like we do.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Although, to be honest, I do have a no bug
policy.
So if there's a spider orsomething, I tell her, but you
deal with the bugs, because Idon't like bugs tell him about
you deal with the bugs, becauseI don't like bugs.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, well, you know.
Well, that's good, that'sunderstanding.
We all have our.
We sort of all have our quirks.
But going back to your questionof how do women recognize that
leadership potential?
Right, I think that was thequestion.
So when we look at service, sofirst let's we look spiritually
Again, that's sort of thefoundation.
So does he do his basicresponsibilities himself?
It's great, you want to teachyour kids to pray.

(29:33):
If you don't pray, what are youteaching them, right?
It's great you want your wifeto not look 100 yards outside
when she's outside because shemight see a man.
Yet your eyes are completely,just all over the place, right?
So are you doing what you say?
It doesn't mean that we'reperfect, it doesn't mean that

(29:54):
sometimes you missed Fajr, butacknowledge that and make it up,
right, that's different thanjust you do this and I'm going
to do I'm not going to always dothis.
So, spiritually, are theyleading themselves first and is
there sort of a consistency inthe connection with Allah,
subhanahu wa ta'ala?
And again, we start with thebasics, like the prayers.

(30:17):
That's where it starts, becauseif you can't really lead
yourself in prayer, you're notgoing to be able to lead anybody
else.
So look, spiritually, ifthere's no connection with the
Quran whatsoever, this is deeplyproblematic.
You can't be saying that thisis a book of guidance and then
you never go to it for guidance,like, what's the point?
I get so many young Muslimsthat will come and they'll go.

(30:41):
I'm having doubts about myfaith.
I'm having, I'm not sure aboutthis, I'm not sure about that.
It's like, have you one time inyour life read the Quran from
beginning to end?
One time?
Or did you just read somepassages because you saw a
YouTube video and they said thatthese don't make any sense?
One time have you read theQuran?
One time have you read theseerah?

(31:02):
Completely?
Like, don't come here and makeall these arguments, forget
about, uh, islamically, justrationally, how can you say
you're so against something?
You don't even know what you,what the subject is, you're just
sort of taking sound bites.
You wouldn't do that in anyother subject.
So where are they?
Spiritually is very important.

(31:22):
And then, of course, characterlooking at people, looking at
how they treat others,particularly the female members
of the family, sisters,daughters, you know so, on their
mother, how are they, what doesthat look like.
And then how do they treatpeople that are quote unquote,

(31:46):
lower Like and not in terms ofnot in the eyes of Allah,
because we don't know, but justlike a janitor or like somebody
working at the restaurant.
You know, that's just kind of.
Just kind of they're like.
How do they treat them?
Because?
Do they smile at them?
Do the kids see them sayingthank you when somebody does a
seemingly small service that hasa major, major impact?

(32:08):
So what does that characterlook like?
And then emotionally as well,right.
So are they listening tounderstand, or are they
listening just to respond?

Speaker 2 (32:47):
So there's a difference between those two
things.
Can one admit when they'rewrong and can they apologize
sincerely, or is it just kind ofa show?
Right Doesn't mean you have tohave all the answers in
leadership, but there's ahumility to seek the answers and
to consult others when we don'thave them.
So these are some of the thingsthat can be done to sort of
inshallah, recognize thepotential for that leadership.
Okay, what would you say to awoman who wants that positive
side of leadership in terms ofhe's going to take these
responsibilities upon himself,he's going to be the spender,
but then she doesn't want totake the the other side of

(33:08):
leadership like a little more.
But some don't want to acceptthat.
What would you say to a womanlike this?

Speaker 1 (33:14):
well, I would wonder if they have a basic
understanding of the rights androles of men and women in
marriage.
So I do think that most womendo want a man who is in that
leadership position.
I think that's a very naturalthing, I think that's a normal

(33:36):
thing, I think that's a healthything and, you know, if they
don't know what Islam is seekingor asking of them or their
husband, then they're going tohave, they're going to think
like this Right, they're goingto look at everything as like a
clash.
So one of the one of the thingswe see sometimes in marital
counseling which is absolutelyhorrifying is you have people

(33:59):
who have been counselingmarriage counseling for 15, 20
years and they have no clueabout Islamic rights and
responsibilities of marriage formen and women.
So they're just kind of usingwhatever philosophies and
everything they use and they'rejust kind of shooting from the
hip right oh, you don't need aman, you need to do this, you
need to do that.
You're just setting them up fora life of misery and conflict.

(34:23):
So I would, I think there's aresponsibility on the woman to
look at what are those roles andthen letting them letting them
you know, giving them the chanceto fulfill those roles rather
than trying to take them orthink that there's conflict.
It's a very complimentaryrelationship, walhamdulillah.
It's not men versus, it's notthe battle of the sexes, it's a

(34:45):
very complementary relationship,alhamdulillah.
It's not the battle of thesexes, it's very complementary.
Men can do things women cannotand women can do things that men
cannot, and those are sort ofthe gaps and the things that are
fulfilled that come throughthere, and when that
relationship is in harmony, thenthat's going to have the best
results for raising the familyrelationship is in harmony, then

(35:06):
that's going to have the bestresults for raising the family.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Even saying that men can do things women can't, and
vice versa, it's socontroversial, even though it
sounds common sense.
But some people make it soundcontroversial.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yeah, again, a lot of these things.
We just make them controversy,but that that's a fact.
Now there can be exceptions, ofcourse, right, so, generally
speaking, at the gym I'm goingto lift heavier weight than 99%
of women that are in there.
However, there's going to be afew that are athletes or

(35:42):
whatever, that are going to beable to do things better than me
, but that doesn't mean thatthat becomes the norm now,
because that's not the norm,right, even like in strength.
I remember my uncle was tellingme one time he's like you know,
like I try to hold the, you know, the kid or something like my
arm starts tiring out and I'mlike I just did like all these

(36:02):
bicep curls, and.
And then he's like I watched mywife at night like she just
sitting and sleeping with herneck crooked the whole night and
she's like you know, like howis this possible?
Right, you know you hold thebaby and you just keep fidgeting
and turning because you don't,and and you know you have the
wife is just holding and likedoing stuff with one hand and

(36:25):
moving things, and so, likethere's certain things that we,
we both do.
But again, if, if this is goingto be a controversial statement
to say, for example, that, uh,women are generally more
emotionally in tune than men andmen generally have more muscle
mass than like what we're lostas a society.
If we can, we can't make thesestatements.

(36:47):
But again, notice there's novalue judgment in those.
It's not saying that becauseone can do this, the other
somehow is less or inferior.
But let's recognize thestrengths so that people play to
their strengths, rather thantrying to say, no, you don't
really have that strength, orpretending you don't.
And then we end up with allthese sorts of ridiculous rules

(37:08):
and things in society whichdon't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
You touched upon the qualities of leadership, but and
we often tell men that you needto become the man that that a
woman would desire, right, andso when we talk about leadership
and becoming ready for marriage, what does that journey look
like?
Desire, right.
And so when we talk aboutleadership and becoming ready
for marriage, what does thatjourney look like in practical
terms?

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah.
So first, I would say this goesboth ways, right.
It's not just about becoming aman and ready for marriage, it
also comes from the other side,right?
So I want to be fair and pointthat out.
I don't know if anyone saidthis, but I'm going to coin this
term princess syndrome.
Okay, nobody, no man, wants tomarry a princess.

(37:55):
A princess was raised in herhouse, doesn't know how to
function.
She's supposed to be a leaderof the house.
She doesn't know anything aboutthe household, right?
She doesn't know how to dealwith conflict because everything
was taken care of her.
She thinks that whatever shewants she gets.
And now this is all coming intoa marriage.
So we cannot ignore this side.
I know fathers are well-meaningwhen they do that, and mothers

(38:18):
as well, but nobody wants tomarry a princess.
So that is one side of theequation.
Equation.
Now, as for the other side ofthe equation, what does it mean
to become a man?
Uh, it doesn't mean perfection.
It doesn't mean perfection, butcertainly it means doing some
inner and outer work.
The core of that always isspiritually, right.

(38:39):
So, um, if, if one is deficientin basics, you got to get the
basics down before you'regetting married, right If you're
not consistently praying fivetimes a day, if you don't
consistently go to Jum'ah, ifyou don't know how to give zakat
.
These are basics.
These are not superhero Muslimtype of things.

(39:01):
So you have to get the basicsdown.
And if you have them down, thennow you start sort of moving
beyond that to building a reallydeeper spiritual connection.
I have some clients when we setspiritual goals they're like my
goal is just to start praying,literally start.
Others are like I pray, but Ican't get off of Fajr, that's my

(39:24):
goal.
Others are like I want to, Ican't get off of fajr, that's my
goal.
Others are like I want to praythe hajj every week.
So everybody is at their level.
But we always need to be at thebaseline, or the basics, and
then we start strengthening thatconnection and we move so the
ibadah, think of it as anopportunity.
It's not a chore, it'sopportunities to get closer to
Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, andthis changes the dynamic.

(39:46):
So that's always the baseline,is spiritually.
Then there is a emotional sortof training, I guess, if you
want to call it that, and thatis working on our ego.
This is like internalpurification.
One of the goals that theProphet came with was to get

(40:08):
them to purify themselves, right.
So doing this internal work,because if you don't have
internal work, your life's goingto be very, very empty.
And we all need to do that, menand women.
Sometimes it's just a littlebit different With men.
It can be an ego thing, perhapsbecause of the status and the
career and all that kind ofstuff that comes in, but that is

(40:31):
sort of a it's an activeprocess.
So understanding the emotionaltriggers that one has, learning
to communicate without blamingothers, taking responsibility.
Now, this might mean, for someit might mean therapy.
For some it might mean gettinga mentor, being around better

(40:52):
company, which is alwaysrecommended regardless of who we
are.
For some it might mean readingbooks, you know, like books on
emotional intelligence, forexample.
These are all things for sortof that emotional type of
training.
And then, of course, I meanwe're talking practically,

(41:12):
financially.
Now, financially doesn't meanthat you're planning how to get
rich, but you have to beresponsible, right, you have to
be responsible.
Yes, when you're single you canspend money on things, but you
have to be more responsible.
When you have a family, youcan't go out, and maybe you
probably shouldn't be doing itanyway, but maybe you ate out

(41:35):
three giving it in sadaqah, forexample.
So there has to be a level ofresponsibility.
That could mean, you know,budgeting, living within our
means, and the desire which isnormal to sort of progress in

(41:57):
our career is great, but itshould always be linked to
having halal income to providefor others.
So I've been asked by many, manybrothers.
They get a wonderful job.
They say I'm not reallycomfortable with this company.
I don't.
I saw, like who's on the boardand who I'm working with and the
kind of values they have.

(42:18):
I don't feel right about it.
Or, you know, this is workingin a certain industry that I
it's a great, great offer.
Now everyone else is tellingthem they're crazy for turning
it down.
But I'll tell you, every singletime they have, allah gives
them something better in a veryshort period of time.
Right, I've seen this over andover again.
So that financial training andresponsibility is important.

(42:44):
So those spiritually,emotionally and financially,
those are all steps to sort oftake so that they sort of are
working on the path to becomingthat man.
Yeah, SubhanAllah.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
the last thing you mentioned about working in
certain industries, like itcouldn't be more relevant than
it is now, when a lot of theindustries and brands are
supporting the genocide in Gazaand you're left with a choice oh
, what if I leave my job?
Will I find another job?
Will I?
How will Allah provide?
And all of that.

(43:17):
But like, like you said, likeif you leave something for Allah
, Allah will replace it withsomething better, SubhanAllah.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Right, and and just on that point, because I'm sure
a lot of I know a lot of peopleare grappling with this,
remember, practically speaking.
You know, this is why we havefiqh, which is not just
understanding, it's a deepunderstanding.
So if you're in an industrythat you really don't want to be
in, or anymore Islam is nottelling you okay, stop tomorrow,
so that you can't pay your rent, you have to pull your kids out

(43:48):
of school because you can't paytheir tuition, you can't feed
your family.
You're supposed to thenaggressively look for halal
income while you are stillconnected to that.
Now, if you can just leave it,great, but most people probably
can't do that.
So we don't want to make peoplehave this double guilt of
already they don't want to bethere and now we're telling them

(44:10):
just quit your job.
So now, on top of the guilt ofthat, now you have to worry
about how am I going to providefor my family and how's that
going to impact your marriageand your kids.
That's just going to be anadded strain.
So don't make rash decisions.
Right, think about where you'reat.
Some people can make greatimpact behind the scenes.
It doesn't mean that they'resellout so that they don't care,

(44:32):
but that's the best thing forthem to do, right?
Others have a public profileand they say things a certain
way, or maybe they say itanother way, right?
So let this whole like fantasyof like everybody just leave
everything and just start sayingwhatever you want again.
This is not.
This is not practical.
So yeah, just want to put thatout there because it's important

(44:52):
to say that said the door right, absolutely, yeah, yeah, um.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
I want to go back to the topic of masculinity and, um
, we hear a lot the term ofstrong, independent woman.
Now, how can a woman encourageher husband or the person she's
speaking to for the purpose ofmarriage, how can she encourage

(45:20):
them to?

Speaker 1 (45:20):
embrace their masculinity, but without
compromising her own value, herown independence.
Yeah, so again this term strong, independent, independent woman

(45:49):
what does that mean?
I think most of us would wantto relationship Right.
So just going back to what dowe mean by that?
Most of the time when I hearthat term, it pretty much brings
out the worst of sort offeminist ideology.
And you know, putting men downand men are this and men are
trash and all that that's what,I think, realistically, most
people hear.
So we definitely want to definewhat we mean by that.

(46:12):
But how do we help men like,how can women support healthy
masculinity?
Everybody loves appreciation,whether they admit it or not.
A very simple, you know, showof gratitude to your husband or

(46:35):
your wife can really go a longway.
And you know, I firmly believe,like a good long-term marriage,
it's about the small sort ofthings, the day-to-day thing.
It's not about like a biglavish vacation once a year.
It's really about sort of theday-to-day things.
It's not about like a biglavish vacation once a year.
It's really about sort of theday-to-day stuff.
And so showing appreciation isreally important in that you

(47:00):
don't have to like shrinkyourself as a woman like, oh,
you know, I'm meek and I'm justnothing.
Nobody is saying you have to dothat.
But showing, oh, you know I'mmeek and I'm just nothing,
nobody is saying you have to dothat.
But showing appreciation, youknow, can really go a long way
because a man who's sort ofcomfortable in his own skin,
they won't be threatened bytheir wife, right, it's going to

(47:22):
be a mutual partnership.
So supporting him byrecognizing his effort, that
doesn't mean you have to carryhis responsibilities Right.
So there's there's.
There's definitely a difference.
You're not.
Your role is a life partner.
It's not a PM.
You're not the project managerin his life.

(47:44):
But again, think of it more aslike a healthy way to help each
other grow.
That's really what we're tryingto do.
Right, there are differentstages of marriage and that's
what we're doing.
So creating a space where hecan be heard.
That's really important.
That can help when men generallyare not good with vulnerability

(48:06):
or showing some sort of emotion.
So in the times that they do,or want to then receive it with
some compassion and think aboutthe circumstances that are
happening.
So if your husband, for example, if your husband, for example,

(48:33):
lost his father, there's no waythat that doesn't affect him.
The closer the relationship was, the more it will affect him.
But even when the relationshipisn't that close, there's still
something that happens when youlose your father, so much is
going through your mind.
The one who didn't have a greatrelationship starts to wonder
what if I did?
And now they're like well, Ididn't have a great relationship
starts to wonder what if I didRight, and now they're like well
, I didn't have that great arelationship, so I want to have

(48:54):
a better relationship with mykids and then they also have
this.
Well, you know, I'm supposed torespect my parents.
Did I do that Even though itwasn't there's?
So it's so much that goes on.
It's like almost it's very,very overwhelming to deal with
that.
So if he's just acting likeeverything is normal after some
major thing a change on the hechanged teams at work and he

(49:17):
just seems different, now right,or a job loss or something like
that, like, take someinitiative, because there's no
way that everything is just okay.
There needs to be a soundingboard, there needs to be
somebody that absorbs some ofthe tension that he's doing.
So take a little bit ofinitiative and be supportive.
You know, in those roles wetalked about, you know verbally

(49:41):
appreciating, right, so men liketo hear verbally.
Again, it's just, and everybodylikes to feel appreciated.
Why did the prophet sallallahualaihi tell us to whoever you
know doesn't thank the people,hasn't thanked allah, subhanahu
wa ta'ala, like they're stilldoing it, but we still, you know
, make dua for them and we stillthank them, um, so that's

(50:03):
really important as well.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Inshallah beautiful, so we know the other part of
your job is being a personaltrainer.
I want to ask what got you inthat field to begin with?
Is it something that youthought would help you in your
counseling and your leadership?

Speaker 1 (50:21):
yeah.
So I've always sort of beeninto sports since I was younger,
uh, and alhamdulillah, I playedcolleg tennis, so it was at a
pretty good level.
I even took some time off totry to make it beyond.
I mean, it was, I was neverclose, I had no chance, but I
did take time off to try to seeif I could, you know, play some

(50:43):
level of professional yeah.
So that was always important tome and I was always trying like
different fitness programs andthings over the years.
But as I started working more inthe community, first as an imam
and then as a therapist, yousort of cases I get are not
preventative.
It's like my daughter's 17.

(51:13):
I need you to fix her.
It's like, well, what happenedthe first 17 years?
It would have been a whole loteasier if we had started earlier
.
So, as I start to see this, tosee this in particularly in in

(51:34):
men, you know it, you have youryour, there's your mind, there's
your body and then there'sultimately the soul.
Right, if you have a major gapin two of these areas, it's
going to be hard to become thebest version of yourself.
Okay, you can look fantasticphysically, but if it's all done
for vanity and to show off yourabs on Instagram, then you've
achieved nothing.

(51:54):
But if you're trying to stayhealthy, to be there for your
kids, to not be a burden on them, to be able to make sigda when
you're 65, 70, 75 years old, towalk to the mosque independently
when you're 80 years old,that's a completely different
mentality.
And similarly, if you're justfocusing on worship, that's

(52:15):
great.
But if you eat terribly, youdon't move your body and you're
depressed because you hate yourjob and you're disconnected from
your family, that's going todirectly impact your worship
that you're doing.
So, seeing that over the years,you know, I've just sort of seen
that and it doesn't mean youhave to be like perfect in

(52:36):
everything or that some areasaren't better than others, but
to just sort of live like in onedimension.
I don't think that's a positiveway to think about growth.
So that kind of led to myapproach.
So I had all these these yearsof experience myself
athletically and then I justsort of formalized it and and
now I've incorporated it intothe things that I do and do you

(53:00):
feel it helps like?

Speaker 2 (53:01):
do you work mainly with young men?

Speaker 1 (53:04):
so most of the the the population I work with is is
men.
It doesn't mean I don't I dowork with couples, obviously, so
that's going to be both.
I do have some female clients,but generally I work with men,

(53:33):
you know, 16, 17, all the way upto 30s, 40s, sometimes even a
bit older, but I kind of men ingeneral, that's.
That's sort of the I would saykind of anywhere from teen to
like middle aged ish, which is apretty wide range.
But that's kind of who, that'skind of how it's become.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
You mean in terms of fitness right or in terms of
counseling?
Just in general in general, ingeneral, yeah, yeah, because I
was going to ask do you notice,like the um, the people, the
clients who focus more on thefitness aspect and they're
having a healthy body, do younotice it affects other aspects
of their life?

Speaker 1 (54:05):
yes, certainly, and so I.
So therapy, you know, ifsomeone needs like serious
professional therapy, that'skind of one thing.
But then I have another programwhere I going to have an effect
on them.
So, yes, you definitely see aconnection and you see, when

(54:32):
people start to get healthier,they just feel better.
When people start to reframenegative thoughts into more
positive thoughts, they start toget healthier.
When people start to give morededicated time to their wife
after they've been married for15 years, because they just
everything was about the kids,kids, the kids, and now they're
giving more dedicated time, yes,that that, all of that has an

(54:54):
impact it's kind of lots.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
One system, I guess one connected system so if you
could just leave every man andwoman with one piece of advice
about healthy masculinity,partnership and balance, what
would it be?
Just one.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
More than one.
Whatever you think would bebeneficial.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
I think we've covered a lot of what we said, so I
would say a few things.
Number one remember that, atthe end of the day, what is our
purpose on this earth?
Our purpose is to worship Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala.
That is our ultimate purposeand that is always the baseline.

(55:36):
And while we may have uniquedifferences and different
strengths as men and women,allah is not going to put you in
Jannah just because you were aman or just because you were a
woman.
And whatever roles he gave usto fulfill, if you fulfill those
, then Allah Subh'anaHu WaTa-A'la inshallah will give you

(55:57):
the ultimate reward, right?
So Allah knows, for example,that I cannot give birth and
women you know they don't likedo the Jummah or something.
Those are not expectations,those are not roles that we were
given.
Whatever we were given, if wefulfill those, then Allah
Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la inshallahwill give us that ultimate

(56:19):
reward that we want.
So let's not forget that we arefirst and foremost here to
serve Allah Subh'anaHu WaTa-A'la, not anybody else.
Now, an extension of that is wehave these relationships which
are commanded to us by AllahSubh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la, with
certain obligations to fulfill,and if we do that, then we are

(56:40):
worshipping Allah, subh'anahu WaTa-A'la.
So the role of our parents, therole in raising our children,
the role of husband and wife,the role in the community, and
so on and so forth.
So all those relationships areimportant, but they're
ultimately connected to Allah,subhanahu wa ta'ala.
So that is always the baselineNow for men.

(57:04):
Don't outsource your growth.
So don't think you're justgoing to get married.
To quote, unquote fix you.
There needs to be somethingsolid that you can build upon.
And I'll see this sometimeswhen a woman will come for
premarital counseling and I'mlooking at this particular
person.
Now, if there are gaping holes,if there are gaping holes in

(57:28):
religiosity, then that's a redflag, right.
It's like, yeah, he doesn'treally pray, but he said he will
.
He's going to start.
Yeah, he smokes marijuana, buthe said he's going to stop.
You need to work on yourselfbefore going into a marriage, so
don't wait for others to dothat for you.

(57:50):
Build yourself now withsincerity for Allah, subh'anahu
Wa Ta-A'la, always striving tobe a follower of the Prophet
SallAllahu Alaihi Wasallam.
And as someone who lovesfitness, I would say that you
still need to train your soulmore than your body, and they're
all gonna help you achieve that.
They're all connected, right,but there has to be a premium

(58:10):
put on that relationship withAllah subhanahu wa ta'ala.
But if that's always the target, you're going to do the other
things anyway, because yourmentality is going to be
completely different.
No-transcript, let's not gettwisted.

(58:49):
What strength is?
So those are some things Iwould say to the men, to the
women when you're seekingsomeone, seek someone, of course
, whose heart is attached toAllah subhanahu wa ta'ala,
because a man of taqwa is goingto treat you in a way that is
pleasing to Allah subhanahu wata'ala, rather than just sort of

(59:11):
treating you how he wants orhow somebody tells you that he's
supposed to treat you.
So if there are injustices inthe family, he will stand up for
the injustice, regardless ofwho's in the wrong right, rather
than blindly taking sides.
So that's definitely important.
And also, you know, in yoursearch, don't forget about
becoming the woman you want tobe.

(59:31):
You want to become someone ofhigher iman, someone who has
good character, someone ofself-respect, all of these
things Don't forget.
You know that you're also on ajourney and you're going to
bring that into the relationshipand you know that will, ins
inshallah, lead to growth forboth.

(59:52):
And when you're looking for.
Don't just look at a man'spotential.
Look at what he's doing rightnow as well as the potential
when you're looking, you know,for that ultimate partnership.
And then just for both,remember, like marriage is a
what do they say?
It's a marathon, not a sprint,right?

(01:00:14):
So it's not the finish lineonce you get married.
It's the start, inshallah, of ajourney which is going to carry
you to the ultimate abode,which is Jannah.
So you need the right teammate,you need someone who's going to
lift you up, who's going tohelp you when things get
challenging and there'sdifferent stages of the marriage

(01:00:38):
and each one, you know, we tryto grow together.
So maybe, initially, perhapsit's more physical, which is
important.
I mean, nobody's saying it'sdenying it isn't it's more
physical which is important.
I mean, nobody's saying it'sdenying it isn't.
But over time, if that's allthat one is relying on, that's
not a very fulfilling life,right?
Again, not denying theimportance.
Of course that's a part, but itis not the only part, which is

(01:01:00):
a lot of times what we're sortof sold.
So you know, inshallah, also,keep it interesting and strive
to be better.
When I hear men say things like, you know, I can't wait till
I'm married so I can let myselfgo.
That drives me crazy.
You should be working harder,you know, after you're married,

(01:01:21):
rather than just kind ofthrowing in the towel so,
allahu'alam, I'm by no meanssitting here saying I got it all
figured out.
I'm working through thisprocess with everyone.
But, inshaallah, these are justsome reflections based off my
experiences and what I've seen,and may Allah subhanahu wa
ta'ala grant us marriages andpartners in life that
relationships based off taqwa ofAllah subhanahu wa ta'ala.

(01:01:41):
I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
I mean I mean just as a side note, when you mentioned
don't outsource to men, don'toutsource your growth, it just
reminded me of something thatsometimes happens in our Middle
Eastern culture, where the guyis not like on a straight path,
maybe he's a troublemaker, maybehe drinks, whatever, and then
the family is like, get himmarried, this will fix him up.

(01:02:03):
Get him married.
Then he gets married, then itgets worse, and then the family
have kids, have kids.
The kid will come and fixeverything and then it just
keeps going from bad to worse toworse, to worse to worse.
So I hope that people listen towhat you said.
Don't outsource, like be theman before you find the woman.
And yeah, I guess that's what Iwanted to say, but before we

(01:02:28):
let you go, dr Omar do you workwith clients virtually?

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
I do, yes, I do virtually, as well as in person
here in Dallas, where I'm based.
Okay, and if someone would liketo learn about your services,
maybe work with you.
How would that be?
Yeah, they can find me onInstagram at
D-R-O-M-A-R-H-U-S-A-I-N.
Dr Omar Hussain, and then youcan go from there.

(01:02:50):
Inshallah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Inshallah, we will link that.
Thank you so much.
This has been a topic on ourmind masculinity for a very long
time.
We just couldn't find the rightperson to tackle it, and we are
so happy and thankful that youdedicated this much time for us
and our listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Thank, you so much, uh, dr omar.
Thank you, our beautifullisteners.
Inshallah, inshallah, we'll seeyou on the next one.
All right,