April 12, 2025 • 26 mins
"I wish she gave me more attention.. Why do I have to beg for intimacy?.. Maybe I should consider a second wife!"
Today we're unpacking a trend we’re seeing more often: men considering polygamy, and women actually open to it. While polygamy is part of our faith, it’s not a free pass for avoiding deeper issues in a marriage.
We also talk about the practical side: the legal messiness of polygamy in the West (it’s actually criminal in Canada), the emotional toll on everyone involved, and why it’s not always the solution people think it is.
This episode isn’t here to judge, but to offer a real talk on what’s halal, what’s practical, and what might need more therapy than a second nikah. Give it a listen. You might come out with more questions than answers (and that’s kind of the point).
Got a dilemma or story? The Single Muslim Hotline is here for you! We’ll play your anonymous messages in future episodes and offer real talk. Drop us a voice note 👇🏻
https://www.speakpipe.com/DiaryOfAMatchmaker
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I wish she gave me more attention.
Why do I constantly have to begfor intimacy?
Sometimes I wish I could justcome home to a nice home-cooked
meal.
Maybe I should just consider asecond wife.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah, assalamu alaikumeveryone, welcome to another
episode.
My name is Zaid and on theother mic is my wife and co-host
.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hiba.
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
So these thoughts and feelings are not too far from
reality.
We've been seeing it all overInstagram.
We heard it from a scholar thatwe recently interviewed, so
it's clear that there's thiswave, there's this current right
now where men are not satisfiedin their marriages and, on the
(01:01):
flip side, some women areconsidering becoming a second
wife.
So, of course, naturally, wethought why don't we dedicate an
episode to polygamy?
Yeah, and so where do we start?
We could start with the Islamicprecedent behind polygamy.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Honestly, we're not going to spend too much time
stating the obvious, which ispolygamy is permissible in Islam
.
It's not a sunnah, it's notfrowned upon, it's not mustahab.
It's just permissible forcertain men who have certain
needs and who are able to meetcertain conditions.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Right.
And to add to that too, it'salso important to understand
that when it happenedhistorically during the
prophet's time, it wasn't justto satisfy the needs of men, but
also it was to protect women.
Sometimes, um, women wouldbecome widows.
Their husbands would die in war.
Uh, so, to avoid poverty and toavoid them becoming prey to
(02:07):
society, they would become asecond wife which still applies.
It still applies, yeah so thereare multiple reasons and
precedents for which polygamywas allowed back then of course,
of course.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So no one should pass any judgment when they hear of
a case, and but regardless, thequestion we are tackling today,
or the topic of today's episode,is polygamy for muslims in the
west specifically and as adisclaimer, we're not for or
against polygamy yeah, all right, we're going to try to be as
objective as we can, as hard asit sounds, oh, we're going to
(02:42):
try to be objective.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So why do some men consider polygamy today?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Why You're a man, you tell me.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
You're acting as if I'm considering a second wife.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, if you know what's best for you, you
wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Oh no, is that a threat?
So, based on what we've beenseeing and what I've heard is
that men are not sexuallysatisfied in their marriages.
Um, there is also the feministmovement happening where and
I've actually read this in somecases where women are
(03:18):
weaponizing sex.
Um, of course, women arebecoming.
Now it just sounds kind of likeI'm putting women down and
women are the source of theproblem.
That's not what I'm saying here.
Like I said, this is word forword what I'm seeing.
Right, there are literallycases of these things happening
where women are putting moretime into the workforce and so
(03:40):
that's naturally taking timeaway from home and what else.
What other reasons are there?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Maybe some women are not emotionally available, or
like maybe some men feel likethey lost the spark and they
live in a loveless marriage andit's just becoming so boring
there's no, like it's becomingvanilla, I guess right,
especially with what we see inmovies and just in pop culture.
(04:08):
There's this excitement,there's romance, there's this
spark and a lot of times we areinfluenced, even subconsciously.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, where we think every day of marriage should be
like the first.
That's not going to happen.
So the question is is how do we, how do we solve this problem?
Is it just communication?
Or where we just have a sitdown?
We sit down and just say, hey,we need to figure this out.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
or I wish I wish it was like this, but I feel like
some men consider, uh, marryinga second wife immediately before
considering the other options.
Which is communication?
Which is maybe seekingcounseling, couples therapy,
just trying to understand eachother and solve the problem
(04:57):
instead of solving it withanother problem right, right,
and not everybody can affordcounseling.
But if you can afford a secondwife, you sure can afford
counseling that's a fair point.
Yeah, fair point and also, if aman feels like marrying a second
wife is going to be the answerto his problems with his first
(05:17):
marriage, then he's just goingto be taking the same problems
with him to the next marriageand repeating the same, magnify
the problem Exactly For sure.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It's kind of like with divorce If you haven't
learned anything from your firstmarriage, then you're just
going to repeat the samemistakes.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And the condition for a man to be able to marry more
than one wife is justice.
And we're not just talkingabout like in terms of finances,
but in terms of how muchresources, how much time you
spend with each one of them, interms of gifts, in terms of like
as much as you can be fair withyour emotions and attention,
(05:57):
and all of that.
But unfortunately, not a lot ofmen apply this which is sad.
Which is sad you mentioned theother day where, uh, there's a
village in palestine wherepolygamy is practiced yeah, uh,
so the most southern part ofpalestine is called beir sabir
and it's more of a like abedouin society there and it's
(06:19):
pretty common for their men tomarry more than one woman, and
sometimes even four at the sametime.
And, um, yeah, unfortunatelythe results aren't very
beautiful, I would say, becauseyou would see a lot of poverty
there, like a man barely able tosupport his wife goes and
(06:39):
marries a second and then haschildren from her and maybe
marries a third or a fourth, andthere's a lot of lack of
education about it and just menpracticing some men practicing
polygamy, thinking it's part ofsunnah, like I'm imitating,
trying to follow the Prophet,and it's not the case.
(06:59):
This is not true.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, it's a very distorted understanding of Islam
.
Yeah, yeah.
So let's talk about the flipside.
You know a woman consideringbecoming a second wife so okay,
let's picture this.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
There's this girl.
She's in her late 30s, maybemid 40s, somewhere in between,
and she's been struggling foryears, no luck.
She hasn't been able to find MrRight and her parents are
getting older and she's afraidshe might grow old alone.
She doesn't want to do that.
She gets a good proposal fromthis man.
(07:36):
He's in his 40s, he'sestablished, he's promising her
stability, he's promising her agood life and she will be
protected, and he sounds sincere.
And she's conflicted.
Now should she consider?
I mean, this wasn't the idealsituation she was hoping for,
(07:57):
but I guess something's betterthan nothing, she might think.
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
That's a tricky situation it is, it is because
it's not like she's doinganything haram while at the same
time she is doing somethingillegal.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So we're gonna get to the legal part.
Yeah, we'll get to that.
We'll get to that part so it's,it's tough.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I mean you don't want to tell a girl, hey, just stay
single.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Or, as in you say in your culture, nasib, just wait
for nasib to have it, yeah rightbut, at the same time, if
you're saying yes to thisproposal just because you're
afraid you're gonna grow oldalone, then your judgment might
be skewed because it might blindyou from seeing certain red
flags around about this person,or maybe the person himself the
(08:46):
guy himself is, has goodintentions and he's sincere,
like we said.
But you need to consider theother angles of the entire
situation, like, for example, nomatter how good the guy is and
no matter how good yourintentions are, there's always
going to be an element ofjealousy between you and his
first wife.
(09:06):
You're both competing for hisattention, his time, his
emotions, his love, I guess, andyou both deserve it, and
there's always going to be thiselement.
So you need to be a strongwoman to be able to handle the
situation without it affectingyou mentally and psychologically
(09:29):
right.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
At the end of the day , you're marrying a human being,
you know, and your husband canonly divide his time and his
resources so much and jealousywill happen.
I mean, the prophet, sallallahualayhi wa sallam, dealt with
jealousy amongst his wives.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No one can be more just and fair than the prophet.
Sallallahu alayhi wa sallammean the prophet dealt with
jealousy amongst his wives.
No one can be more just and fairthan the prophet so if he dealt
with that, then it's probablyvery likely that it's going to
happen with you and you know,there's a side that's not talked
about, which is thepsychological state of the man
himself, because he's alwaystrying to please both women,
he's trying to avoid, um, likeproblems and fights and all of
(10:07):
that, not to mention alsochildren, especially if there's
going to be children from thesecond marriage.
So he's trying to pleaseeveryone and he's never going to
be able to like, be like theprophet, so somebody is always
going to be unhappy.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, and also I don't know if we should dive too
deep into this, but it's notUrf.
We're living in the West, so wecan't just say that hey, it was
a custom back then, that wasUrf.
So, hey, we're trying to goback to the roots and bring back
the way Islam was practicedback then.
Just because it was practicedback then, just because it was
practiced back then, doesn'tmean it's like it's one of the
(10:47):
pillars of Islam.
It's an integral part of Islam.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We're not saying that I'm glad you mentioned Urf
because it might be Urf incertain societies today, not
just in the past, like in Khalijin Saudi, for example, and some
regions in Saudi.
It is Urf.
It is like it is Urf, it's verynatural.
So that's a different situation.
(11:10):
But we're talking about Muslimsliving in the West, which leads
us to the next problem, thenext complication, the legal
complication.
So in America, as well asCanada, as well as most of
Western countries, if not all, apolygamy is illegal, and when
we say illegal, it means that itcarries legal implications.
(11:32):
For example, in Canada, wherewe reside, polygamy is
punishable by law to up to fiveyears in prison.
It's a crime considered a crime, fine as well.
There's a fine on top of that?
The States, I'm not surethere's there's a fine on top of
that.
Um, the states, I'm not sure.
(11:53):
There's, uh like imprisonmentor anything, but it's also
illegal, uh, whatever uk in theuk?
I'm not sure.
I didn't do my research there.
Besides the fact that you mightlike, face legal implications
there's so much complexities.
The second marriage is notgoing to be a marriage that's
(12:14):
recognized by the state itself,which means you're not going to
get any kind of spousal supportin case of the man dying.
You're not included in theinheritance, there's no alimony,
there's no support for theinheritance, there's no alimony,
there's no support for thechildren.
There's even legal implicationswith CRA if the man tries to
(12:37):
file for taxes for both hiswives in a sneaky way or
something.
In case of immigration andsponsorship.
There's also a lot of legalheadache that comes with it.
So that's just like a drop inthe ocean of just all the legal
(12:57):
proceedings and implication thatcome with marrying a second
wife.
Now that's the thing.
Is it worth it?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
no, we're not gonna answer that, no, that to answer
that?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, that's a question for the woman to answer herself
, because women are different.
Each situation is different,right, but it's important.
What we're trying to do here isjust make you aware of some
things that you might have notconsidered when you got this
proposal, which looks soattractive, right?
So it's important to look intoall of these matters.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, and needless to say, I mean, let's talk about
this.
Imams play a role in all this.
So Alhamdulillah, here in theWest we have some very
well-educated, balanced scholarsthat aren't extreme on either
ends of the spectrum, and as faras I've seen, I haven't seen
any Western scholar advocate forpolygamy or, you know, saying
(13:56):
that it's a solution to maritalproblems, but at the same time,
I do feel like they play a veryimportant role when advising
people.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, of course.
If a man and a woman come tothis imam to get married she's
going to be a second wife Thenit's important that the imam
asks her certain questions tomake sure that she.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I don't think any imam would conduct a nikah.
You don't think so.
I know at least my friend whodoes nikahs back home.
He would not do it.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Because he could get in legal trouble.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
So I don't think any imam worth his salt would ever
do that.
If you're overwhelmed andburdened and just don't know
where to seek help, let us helpyou.
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Visit us at halalmatchca and book a free
call with us.
Let's say you decided to sayyes.
Let's say the guy is great.
Let's say his first wife iseven aware of this, which is
like that's a whole nother topicto discuss later, which is
should the first woman beinformed?
Is it a condition that sheknows or not?
Regardless, that's more of likea fiqh question, not for us, but
(15:11):
let's say the whole situationsounds good and perfect.
You have to consider also, uh,our society, our judgmental
society that we live in.
No matter where you go, you'realways going to be looked at as
the second wife, as the secondoption, as this home ruiner,
(15:31):
right, this intruder.
Uh, people are going gonna bewhispering behind your back,
even at messages.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Unfortunately, they're gonna be side eyeing you
yeah, because at the end of theday, we live in a non-muslim
society.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So no, but I'm talking about muslims.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Even muslims are gonna be judging right we're
still a minority, so we we'vetaken on these western views.
Polygamy is not commonplacehere, so for us to unless you
live in utah right.
So naturally we're going to.
For us, polygamy is going to bethis very strange foreign thing
.
So if we're going to see it inour society we're going to think
, oh it's weird it's weird,right like even though it's part
(16:10):
of our religion is if I knew,if I had a Muslim neighbor that
I knew had a second wife?
I'm not going to lie, I wouldbe.
I would have some like illfeelings about it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I would.
I think deep down I would, butI think I would try to suppress
my judgment until I get a betterunderstanding of that situation
, which is not my businessanyway.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Not your business, but just from a surface value
standpoint like you just knowthat this is a guy that has a
second wife.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
How would you feel?
It would make me feel iffy, tosay the least.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Because it just naturally stirs up those
feelings, because we don't livein that kind of society.
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It's all about context.
It's all about urf.
If you grew up with it thenyeah like it's natural right.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, this is kind of a bad analogy, but it
still relates.
It's um kind of like slaveryback then okay right, whereas
slavery it wasn't looked downupon because it was commonplace.
It was practiced across theworld.
Right, it wasn't forbidden atthe time.
Now, regardless of how it waspracticed and the way it was
practiced, in amer.
It was practiced across theworld, right, it wasn't
forbidden at the time.
Now, regardless of how it waspracticed and the way it was
practiced in America I'm notgoing to get into all that, but
(17:23):
the analogy is still there,right, like where you grew up,
in that society.
You don't think it's a badthing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I guess.
Yeah, that's a weird analogy touse, but if you want to learn
about slavery and the contextand all of that, there is a
beautiful talk on.
Youtube by Dr Jonathan Brown.
We've watched it twice or threetimes so far.
And every time we learnsomething new.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Oh yeah, Highly recommended For sure.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But yeah, let's go back to the judgment of society.
So even if people might judgeand people actually will judge
it doesn't mean that it's wrong.
It doesn't mean that it's right.
People are going to judgeanyway.
What we're trying to tell you,sister, if you are considering
something like this, is that youshould be aware of what's
(18:12):
awaiting you, no matter howgreat the guy is.
You can control the societyaround you.
So you have to have a strongwill, thick skin and uh, just
not care, because at the end ofthe day, you're not doing
anything haram yeah, so do youfeel pop culture plays a part in
this?
(18:33):
pop, pop culture.
Oh yeah, this reminds me,actually, when I was young.
The Arab millennials will knowthis show that I'm talking about
.
It's called Al Hajj Mitwali, soit's a TV series in Egyptian
and it talks about this guy,mitwali, who had four wives.
Each marriage had its owncircumstances and he was always
(18:57):
putting off fires left and right, putting out putting out fires
left and right, and he had thislike building with like
different flats, and all hiswives lived in that building.
Each had her own flat andchildren grew up together and
sometimes they were so loving toeach other and sometimes they
were fighting like cats and theguy was just trying to do his
(19:21):
best.
But suddenly I feel nostalgic.
I feel like watching a fewepisodes here and there.
But, yeah, regardless, youtalked about pop culture.
I feel like Instagram can makeanything look nice and
attractive, no matter how rightor wrong it is.
So what you see in social media, if you see like happy families
(19:43):
, happy polygamous families oninstagram and the like the two
wives, or in arabic it's calledthe raer, which is two wives to
the same man, they might lookhappy, they might look like
they're sisters.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I mean there's docu-series and documentaries of
Mormons.
I feel like Western society haskind of warped the whole idea
of polygamy.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah they've hijacked it.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
They have hijacked it to make it look like it's, like
this twisted cult of peoplethat are just religious
extremists.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It's hideous.
I've seen a lot ofdocumentaries.
Honestly, for some reason Ialways end up watching these
documentaries and in a lot ofthese situations the man is
married to his wives number ofhis wives and he gets married to
his daughters To his mahrams.
To his mahrams and thedaughters of his wives from
(20:41):
previous marriages and it's likea cult, like you said, sick
cult, yeah, and yeah, it ruinsit for everyone, I guess.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Actually there is an app or mat matrimonial website.
It's called second wife andit's for muslim men who are
looking to marry a second wife.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, remember when I was in pakistan, I sent you a
picture?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
yeah, I just remember it's called second wife
restaurant I wonder what madethe guy decide on this name oh,
oh God.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Maybe it's because it's like you just see that sign
on the highway and it justcatches your eye.
So maybe that was part of hismarketing strategy.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Oh, that's smart, I guess yeah.
Now question is should youconsider polygamy?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I don't know.
Should you consider polygamy?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I hope you would say no oh, you're asking me directly
no, I'm not I'm just joking.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Uh, should you consider polygamy?
I don't know it's, that's atough one okay let me throw a
hypothetical situation at you Ihope it's not what I'm thinking.
Oh, it is, it is so a man ismarried to a woman.
His wife is in a vegetativestate and she's alive, but she's
(22:08):
been in that state for sometime and the husband has needs,
needs, a companion.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
What should he do?
Is there any chance?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
she might get better.
Doesn't look like it, and evenif she does, she won't.
She'll need around the clockcare she won't be the same
person she was okay.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So for the woman who might end up being a second wife
to this man, if she is willingto take the risk of all these
legal implications that she'snot going to have any rights
whatsoever because the man isnot going to divorce his wife in
this situation, that would belike very uncivilized thing to
(22:52):
do, right?
So if she's willing to take therisk, the legal risk, then
that's up to her.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Now for the man himself, I think we're talking
about the man we're talkingabout the man.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I would hope that the shahem thing, the chivalrous
thing to do in this case is carefor his wife of course that's a
no-brainer.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, but he's a man, he has needs what is he
supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
in this case, second marriage could be a solution,
but what are we gonna do to him?
But what are we gonna do aboutthe legal problems?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
you take the wife that's in a vegetative state,
take her to a muslim country,marry a second wife, and so they
both have rights so yourelocate to a muslim country
yeah that sounds so ideal.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Like it doesn't work like this, what Okay?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
we're talking.
Okay, let's say that is anoption.
Then I would do that.
Otherwise, what would you do?
Okay, let's say he can'trelocate to a Muslim country.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Then what?
Either he learns to control hisneeds and desires.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Either, or he just takes a second wife and also
takes the risk, the legalimplications yeah, I don't have
an answer for that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
It's a tough situation, that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Polygamy or marrying a second wife should be the last
solution.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
The last resort.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Exactly.
You have problems with yourwife, you, you seek counseling.
Uh, you are getting older andyou're not finding Mr Right.
You keep putting all your eggsin different baskets and trying
different services and, uh,putting yourself out there and
asking your friends to recommendyou.
And you do everything you canbut at the end of the day, there
(25:01):
are situations that polygamy isgoing to be the solution to
okay, fair point, fair point Ifeel like we've asked questions
in this episode more than weanswered, and I feel like we
left listeners with more thingsto think about, like maybe
(25:23):
people came looking for answersin this episode and they didn't
leave with answers to theirquestions that's fine because,
we.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Our intention was not to be too one-sided.
Our intention was to justpresent the subject, try to be
as neutral as possible and leaveyou guys to evaluate your
circumstances and see what thebest decision is for you guys.
Hopefully this episode sparkedsome new thoughts and ideas and
gave you guys a freshperspective.
And if it did, please don'tkeep this episode to yourself.
(25:54):
Share it with a friend, shareit with a colleague, share it
with anybody who could use this.
And if you guys are hungry formore conversations About the
topic of finding a spouse, checkout previous episodes.
We've covered tons of topics.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, alhamdulillah, we just crossed one year and
this is actually episode 53.
Which makes it the firstepisode in year number two.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
We've survived.
We've survived Alhamdulillah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Alhamdulillah, it's all because of Allah Subh'anaHu
Wa Ta-A'la's blessing, becauseof your support, your downloads.
So let's aim for another yearof insightful conversations,
inshallah.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, next couple of weeks, inshallah.
Yeah, next couple of weeks,inshallah.
I'm really excited for becausewe're going to be sharing
stories.
I won't give away too much, butdefinitely stay tuned for next
week.
Yeah, until next time then.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Assalamu alaikum.
I wish she gave me more attention.
Why do I constantly have to begfor intimacy?
Sometimes I wish I could justcome home to a nice home-cooked
meal.
Maybe I should just consider asecond wife.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah, assalamu alaikumeveryone, welcome to another
episode.
My name is Zaid and on theother mic is my wife and co-host
.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hiba.
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
So these thoughts and feelings are not too far from
reality.
We've been seeing it all overInstagram.
We heard it from a scholar thatwe recently interviewed, so
it's clear that there's thiswave, there's this current right
now where men are not satisfiedin their marriages and, on the
(01:01):
flip side, some women areconsidering becoming a second
wife.
So, of course, naturally, wethought why don't we dedicate an
episode to polygamy?
Yeah, and so where do we start?
We could start with the Islamicprecedent behind polygamy.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Honestly, we're not going to spend too much time
stating the obvious, which ispolygamy is permissible in Islam
.
It's not a sunnah, it's notfrowned upon, it's not mustahab.
It's just permissible forcertain men who have certain
needs and who are able to meetcertain conditions.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Right.
And to add to that too, it'salso important to understand
that when it happenedhistorically during the
prophet's time, it wasn't justto satisfy the needs of men, but
also it was to protect women.
Sometimes, um, women wouldbecome widows.
Their husbands would die in war.
Uh, so, to avoid poverty and toavoid them becoming prey to
(02:07):
society, they would become asecond wife which still applies.
It still applies, yeah so thereare multiple reasons and
precedents for which polygamywas allowed back then of course,
of course.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So no one should pass any judgment when they hear of
a case, and but regardless, thequestion we are tackling today,
or the topic of today's episode,is polygamy for muslims in the
west specifically and as adisclaimer, we're not for or
against polygamy yeah, all right, we're going to try to be as
objective as we can, as hard asit sounds, oh, we're going to
(02:42):
try to be objective.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So why do some men consider polygamy today?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Why You're a man, you tell me.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
You're acting as if I'm considering a second wife.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, if you know what's best for you, you
wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Oh no, is that a threat?
So, based on what we've beenseeing and what I've heard is
that men are not sexuallysatisfied in their marriages.
Um, there is also the feministmovement happening where and
I've actually read this in somecases where women are
(03:18):
weaponizing sex.
Um, of course, women arebecoming.
Now it just sounds kind of likeI'm putting women down and
women are the source of theproblem.
That's not what I'm saying here.
Like I said, this is word forword what I'm seeing.
Right, there are literallycases of these things happening
where women are putting moretime into the workforce and so
(03:40):
that's naturally taking timeaway from home and what else.
What other reasons are there?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Maybe some women are not emotionally available, or
like maybe some men feel likethey lost the spark and they
live in a loveless marriage andit's just becoming so boring
there's no, like it's becomingvanilla, I guess right,
especially with what we see inmovies and just in pop culture.
(04:08):
There's this excitement,there's romance, there's this
spark and a lot of times we areinfluenced, even subconsciously.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, where we think every day of marriage should be
like the first.
That's not going to happen.
So the question is is how do we, how do we solve this problem?
Is it just communication?
Or where we just have a sitdown?
We sit down and just say, hey,we need to figure this out.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
or I wish I wish it was like this, but I feel like
some men consider, uh, marryinga second wife immediately before
considering the other options.
Which is communication?
Which is maybe seekingcounseling, couples therapy,
just trying to understand eachother and solve the problem
(04:57):
instead of solving it withanother problem right, right,
and not everybody can affordcounseling.
But if you can afford a secondwife, you sure can afford
counseling that's a fair point.
Yeah, fair point and also, if aman feels like marrying a second
wife is going to be the answerto his problems with his first
(05:17):
marriage, then he's just goingto be taking the same problems
with him to the next marriageand repeating the same, magnify
the problem Exactly For sure.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It's kind of like with divorce If you haven't
learned anything from your firstmarriage, then you're just
going to repeat the samemistakes.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And the condition for a man to be able to marry more
than one wife is justice.
And we're not just talkingabout like in terms of finances,
but in terms of how muchresources, how much time you
spend with each one of them, interms of gifts, in terms of like
as much as you can be fair withyour emotions and attention,
(05:57):
and all of that.
But unfortunately, not a lot ofmen apply this which is sad.
Which is sad you mentioned theother day where, uh, there's a
village in palestine wherepolygamy is practiced yeah, uh,
so the most southern part ofpalestine is called beir sabir
and it's more of a like abedouin society there and it's
(06:19):
pretty common for their men tomarry more than one woman, and
sometimes even four at the sametime.
And, um, yeah, unfortunatelythe results aren't very
beautiful, I would say, becauseyou would see a lot of poverty
there, like a man barely able tosupport his wife goes and
(06:39):
marries a second and then haschildren from her and maybe
marries a third or a fourth, andthere's a lot of lack of
education about it and just menpracticing some men practicing
polygamy, thinking it's part ofsunnah, like I'm imitating,
trying to follow the Prophet,and it's not the case.
(06:59):
This is not true.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, it's a very distorted understanding of Islam
.
Yeah, yeah.
So let's talk about the flipside.
You know a woman consideringbecoming a second wife so okay,
let's picture this.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
There's this girl.
She's in her late 30s, maybemid 40s, somewhere in between,
and she's been struggling foryears, no luck.
She hasn't been able to find MrRight and her parents are
getting older and she's afraidshe might grow old alone.
She doesn't want to do that.
She gets a good proposal fromthis man.
(07:36):
He's in his 40s, he'sestablished, he's promising her
stability, he's promising her agood life and she will be
protected, and he sounds sincere.
And she's conflicted.
Now should she consider?
I mean, this wasn't the idealsituation she was hoping for,
(07:57):
but I guess something's betterthan nothing, she might think.
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
That's a tricky situation it is, it is because
it's not like she's doinganything haram while at the same
time she is doing somethingillegal.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So we're gonna get to the legal part.
Yeah, we'll get to that.
We'll get to that part so it's,it's tough.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I mean you don't want to tell a girl, hey, just stay
single.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Or, as in you say in your culture, nasib, just wait
for nasib to have it, yeah rightbut, at the same time, if
you're saying yes to thisproposal just because you're
afraid you're gonna grow oldalone, then your judgment might
be skewed because it might blindyou from seeing certain red
flags around about this person,or maybe the person himself the
(08:46):
guy himself is, has goodintentions and he's sincere,
like we said.
But you need to consider theother angles of the entire
situation, like, for example, nomatter how good the guy is and
no matter how good yourintentions are, there's always
going to be an element ofjealousy between you and his
first wife.
(09:06):
You're both competing for hisattention, his time, his
emotions, his love, I guess, andyou both deserve it, and
there's always going to be thiselement.
So you need to be a strongwoman to be able to handle the
situation without it affectingyou mentally and psychologically
(09:29):
right.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
At the end of the day , you're marrying a human being,
you know, and your husband canonly divide his time and his
resources so much and jealousywill happen.
I mean, the prophet, sallallahualayhi wa sallam, dealt with
jealousy amongst his wives.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No one can be more just and fair than the prophet.
Sallallahu alayhi wa sallammean the prophet dealt with
jealousy amongst his wives.
No one can be more just and fairthan the prophet so if he dealt
with that, then it's probablyvery likely that it's going to
happen with you and you know,there's a side that's not talked
about, which is thepsychological state of the man
himself, because he's alwaystrying to please both women,
he's trying to avoid, um, likeproblems and fights and all of
(10:07):
that, not to mention alsochildren, especially if there's
going to be children from thesecond marriage.
So he's trying to pleaseeveryone and he's never going to
be able to like, be like theprophet, so somebody is always
going to be unhappy.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, and also I don't know if we should dive too
deep into this, but it's notUrf.
We're living in the West, so wecan't just say that hey, it was
a custom back then, that wasUrf.
So, hey, we're trying to goback to the roots and bring back
the way Islam was practicedback then.
Just because it was practicedback then, just because it was
practiced back then, doesn'tmean it's like it's one of the
(10:47):
pillars of Islam.
It's an integral part of Islam.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We're not saying that I'm glad you mentioned Urf
because it might be Urf incertain societies today, not
just in the past, like in Khalijin Saudi, for example, and some
regions in Saudi.
It is Urf.
It is like it is Urf, it's verynatural.
So that's a different situation.
(11:10):
But we're talking about Muslimsliving in the West, which leads
us to the next problem, thenext complication, the legal
complication.
So in America, as well asCanada, as well as most of
Western countries, if not all, apolygamy is illegal, and when
we say illegal, it means that itcarries legal implications.
(11:32):
For example, in Canada, wherewe reside, polygamy is
punishable by law to up to fiveyears in prison.
It's a crime considered a crime, fine as well.
There's a fine on top of that?
The States, I'm not surethere's there's a fine on top of
that.
Um, the states, I'm not sure.
(11:53):
There's, uh like imprisonmentor anything, but it's also
illegal, uh, whatever uk in theuk?
I'm not sure.
I didn't do my research there.
Besides the fact that you mightlike, face legal implications
there's so much complexities.
The second marriage is notgoing to be a marriage that's
(12:14):
recognized by the state itself,which means you're not going to
get any kind of spousal supportin case of the man dying.
You're not included in theinheritance, there's no alimony,
there's no support for theinheritance, there's no alimony,
there's no support for thechildren.
There's even legal implicationswith CRA if the man tries to
(12:37):
file for taxes for both hiswives in a sneaky way or
something.
In case of immigration andsponsorship.
There's also a lot of legalheadache that comes with it.
So that's just like a drop inthe ocean of just all the legal
(12:57):
proceedings and implication thatcome with marrying a second
wife.
Now that's the thing.
Is it worth it?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
no, we're not gonna answer that, no, that to answer
that?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, that's a question for the woman to answer herself
, because women are different.
Each situation is different,right, but it's important.
What we're trying to do here isjust make you aware of some
things that you might have notconsidered when you got this
proposal, which looks soattractive, right?
So it's important to look intoall of these matters.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, and needless to say, I mean, let's talk about
this.
Imams play a role in all this.
So Alhamdulillah, here in theWest we have some very
well-educated, balanced scholarsthat aren't extreme on either
ends of the spectrum, and as faras I've seen, I haven't seen
any Western scholar advocate forpolygamy or, you know, saying
(13:56):
that it's a solution to maritalproblems, but at the same time,
I do feel like they play a veryimportant role when advising
people.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, of course.
If a man and a woman come tothis imam to get married she's
going to be a second wife Thenit's important that the imam
asks her certain questions tomake sure that she.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I don't think any imam would conduct a nikah.
You don't think so.
I know at least my friend whodoes nikahs back home.
He would not do it.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Because he could get in legal trouble.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
So I don't think any imam worth his salt would ever
do that.
If you're overwhelmed andburdened and just don't know
where to seek help, let us helpyou.
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Visit us at halalmatchca and book a free
call with us.
Let's say you decided to sayyes.
Let's say the guy is great.
Let's say his first wife iseven aware of this, which is
like that's a whole nother topicto discuss later, which is
should the first woman beinformed?
Is it a condition that sheknows or not?
Regardless, that's more of likea fiqh question, not for us, but
(15:11):
let's say the whole situationsounds good and perfect.
You have to consider also, uh,our society, our judgmental
society that we live in.
No matter where you go, you'realways going to be looked at as
the second wife, as the secondoption, as this home ruiner,
(15:31):
right, this intruder.
Uh, people are going gonna bewhispering behind your back,
even at messages.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Unfortunately, they're gonna be side eyeing you
yeah, because at the end of theday, we live in a non-muslim
society.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So no, but I'm talking about muslims.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Even muslims are gonna be judging right we're
still a minority, so we we'vetaken on these western views.
Polygamy is not commonplacehere, so for us to unless you
live in utah right.
So naturally we're going to.
For us, polygamy is going to bethis very strange foreign thing
.
So if we're going to see it inour society we're going to think
, oh it's weird it's weird,right like even though it's part
(16:10):
of our religion is if I knew,if I had a Muslim neighbor that
I knew had a second wife?
I'm not going to lie, I wouldbe.
I would have some like illfeelings about it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I would.
I think deep down I would, butI think I would try to suppress
my judgment until I get a betterunderstanding of that situation
, which is not my businessanyway.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Not your business, but just from a surface value
standpoint like you just knowthat this is a guy that has a
second wife.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
How would you feel?
It would make me feel iffy, tosay the least.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Because it just naturally stirs up those
feelings, because we don't livein that kind of society.
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It's all about context.
It's all about urf.
If you grew up with it thenyeah like it's natural right.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, this is kind of a bad analogy, but it
still relates.
It's um kind of like slaveryback then okay right, whereas
slavery it wasn't looked downupon because it was commonplace.
It was practiced across theworld.
Right, it wasn't forbidden atthe time.
Now, regardless of how it waspracticed and the way it was
practiced, in amer.
It was practiced across theworld, right, it wasn't
forbidden at the time.
Now, regardless of how it waspracticed and the way it was
practiced in America I'm notgoing to get into all that, but
(17:23):
the analogy is still there,right, like where you grew up,
in that society.
You don't think it's a badthing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I guess.
Yeah, that's a weird analogy touse, but if you want to learn
about slavery and the contextand all of that, there is a
beautiful talk on.
Youtube by Dr Jonathan Brown.
We've watched it twice or threetimes so far.
And every time we learnsomething new.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Oh yeah, Highly recommended For sure.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But yeah, let's go back to the judgment of society.
So even if people might judgeand people actually will judge
it doesn't mean that it's wrong.
It doesn't mean that it's right.
People are going to judgeanyway.
What we're trying to tell you,sister, if you are considering
something like this, is that youshould be aware of what's
(18:12):
awaiting you, no matter howgreat the guy is.
You can control the societyaround you.
So you have to have a strongwill, thick skin and uh, just
not care, because at the end ofthe day, you're not doing
anything haram yeah, so do youfeel pop culture plays a part in
this?
(18:33):
pop, pop culture.
Oh yeah, this reminds me,actually, when I was young.
The Arab millennials will knowthis show that I'm talking about
.
It's called Al Hajj Mitwali, soit's a TV series in Egyptian
and it talks about this guy,mitwali, who had four wives.
Each marriage had its owncircumstances and he was always
(18:57):
putting off fires left and right, putting out putting out fires
left and right, and he had thislike building with like
different flats, and all hiswives lived in that building.
Each had her own flat andchildren grew up together and
sometimes they were so loving toeach other and sometimes they
were fighting like cats and theguy was just trying to do his
(19:21):
best.
But suddenly I feel nostalgic.
I feel like watching a fewepisodes here and there.
But, yeah, regardless, youtalked about pop culture.
I feel like Instagram can makeanything look nice and
attractive, no matter how rightor wrong it is.
So what you see in social media, if you see like happy families
(19:43):
, happy polygamous families oninstagram and the like the two
wives, or in arabic it's calledthe raer, which is two wives to
the same man, they might lookhappy, they might look like
they're sisters.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I mean there's docu-series and documentaries of
Mormons.
I feel like Western society haskind of warped the whole idea
of polygamy.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah they've hijacked it.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
They have hijacked it to make it look like it's, like
this twisted cult of peoplethat are just religious
extremists.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It's hideous.
I've seen a lot ofdocumentaries.
Honestly, for some reason Ialways end up watching these
documentaries and in a lot ofthese situations the man is
married to his wives number ofhis wives and he gets married to
his daughters To his mahrams.
To his mahrams and thedaughters of his wives from
(20:41):
previous marriages and it's likea cult, like you said, sick
cult, yeah, and yeah, it ruinsit for everyone, I guess.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Actually there is an app or mat matrimonial website.
It's called second wife andit's for muslim men who are
looking to marry a second wife.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, remember when I was in pakistan, I sent you a
picture?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
yeah, I just remember it's called second wife
restaurant I wonder what madethe guy decide on this name oh,
oh God.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Maybe it's because it's like you just see that sign
on the highway and it justcatches your eye.
So maybe that was part of hismarketing strategy.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Oh, that's smart, I guess yeah.
Now question is should youconsider polygamy?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I don't know.
Should you consider polygamy?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I hope you would say no oh, you're asking me directly
no, I'm not I'm just joking.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Uh, should you consider polygamy?
I don't know it's, that's atough one okay let me throw a
hypothetical situation at you Ihope it's not what I'm thinking.
Oh, it is, it is so a man ismarried to a woman.
His wife is in a vegetativestate and she's alive, but she's
(22:08):
been in that state for sometime and the husband has needs,
needs, a companion.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
What should he do?
Is there any chance?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
she might get better.
Doesn't look like it, and evenif she does, she won't.
She'll need around the clockcare she won't be the same
person she was okay.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So for the woman who might end up being a second wife
to this man, if she is willingto take the risk of all these
legal implications that she'snot going to have any rights
whatsoever because the man isnot going to divorce his wife in
this situation, that would belike very uncivilized thing to
(22:52):
do, right?
So if she's willing to take therisk, the legal risk, then
that's up to her.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Now for the man himself, I think we're talking
about the man we're talkingabout the man.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I would hope that the shahem thing, the chivalrous
thing to do in this case is carefor his wife of course that's a
no-brainer.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, but he's a man, he has needs what is he
supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
in this case, second marriage could be a solution,
but what are we gonna do to him?
But what are we gonna do aboutthe legal problems?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
you take the wife that's in a vegetative state,
take her to a muslim country,marry a second wife, and so they
both have rights so yourelocate to a muslim country
yeah that sounds so ideal.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Like it doesn't work like this, what Okay?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
we're talking.
Okay, let's say that is anoption.
Then I would do that.
Otherwise, what would you do?
Okay, let's say he can'trelocate to a Muslim country.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Then what?
Either he learns to control hisneeds and desires.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Either, or he just takes a second wife and also
takes the risk, the legalimplications yeah, I don't have
an answer for that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
It's a tough situation, that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Polygamy or marrying a second wife should be the last
solution.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
The last resort.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Exactly.
You have problems with yourwife, you, you seek counseling.
Uh, you are getting older andyou're not finding Mr Right.
You keep putting all your eggsin different baskets and trying
different services and, uh,putting yourself out there and
asking your friends to recommendyou.
And you do everything you canbut at the end of the day, there
(25:01):
are situations that polygamy isgoing to be the solution to
okay, fair point, fair point Ifeel like we've asked questions
in this episode more than weanswered, and I feel like we
left listeners with more thingsto think about, like maybe
(25:23):
people came looking for answersin this episode and they didn't
leave with answers to theirquestions that's fine because,
we.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Our intention was not to be too one-sided.
Our intention was to justpresent the subject, try to be
as neutral as possible and leaveyou guys to evaluate your
circumstances and see what thebest decision is for you guys.
Hopefully this episode sparkedsome new thoughts and ideas and
gave you guys a freshperspective.
And if it did, please don'tkeep this episode to yourself.
(25:54):
Share it with a friend, shareit with a colleague, share it
with anybody who could use this.
And if you guys are hungry formore conversations About the
topic of finding a spouse, checkout previous episodes.
We've covered tons of topics.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, alhamdulillah, we just crossed one year and
this is actually episode 53.
Which makes it the firstepisode in year number two.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
We've survived.
We've survived Alhamdulillah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Alhamdulillah, it's all because of Allah Subh'anaHu
Wa Ta-A'la's blessing, becauseof your support, your downloads.
So let's aim for another yearof insightful conversations,
inshallah.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, next couple of weeks, inshallah.
Yeah, next couple of weeks,inshallah.
I'm really excited for becausewe're going to be sharing
stories.
I won't give away too much, butdefinitely stay tuned for next
week.
Yeah, until next time then.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Assalamu alaikum.
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