October 31, 2025 • 58 mins
Most single people think parenting is a future problem, something to worry about after having children. But the truth is, the way you’ll handle kids one day is already showing up in how you argue, apologize, or deal with stress today. The problem isn’t the kids, it’s us. How we handle emotions, set boundaries, and respond to conflict often reflects patterns from our own upbringing.
On this episode we’re hosting parenting coach Maysaa Fahour to explore why learning about parenting early makes all the difference. It’s not about kids yet, it’s about understanding yourself, spotting your patterns, and seeing how you might show up as a spouse. Press play to explore parenting as a mirror for who you are and who you’ll become.
Connect with Coach Maysaa:
Email: maysaa.fahour@coacheq.com.au
If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Assalamu alaikum.
I'm Hiba.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
And I'm Zayd.
SPEAKER_04 (00:03):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Assalamu alaikum, everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofDiary of the Matchmaker.
I'm Zayd, and on the other micis my wife and co-host Hiba.
SPEAKER_04 (00:25):
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
So today we're honored to have a guest, uh,
Miss Mesa Fahor, who is alicensed parenting coach with a
certification in behavioralcognitive therapy.
She is also a mother of fourwith over 20 years of experience
helping families navigate theoften messy but beautiful
reality of raising children.
Mesa combines research-backedtools with practical, real life
(00:50):
strategies that actually work,especially for strong-willed
children.
Through her workshops, courses,and popular online presence, she
has transformed the lives ofthousands of parents.
We have also been uh people thathave been following and learning
a lot from her Instagramchannel.
Uh, Mesa believes that parentingisn't just about perfection, but
(01:12):
it's about presence, repair, andraising emotionally safe humans.
Uh, so thank you for coming onto the podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
Thank you.
Assalamu alaikum, everyone, andhello to you, Hiba and Zaid.
SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
Alaikum salam.
I can't believe we'reinterviewing you.
You we've been following you forthe longest time.
Amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
I'm so happy to be here on different time zones.
SPEAKER_04 (01:31):
Yeah, subhanAllah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:33):
And for you, uh, our dear listeners, before you tune
out and say think, I'm stillsingle, I have nothing to do
with parenting.
Wait, wait, and you will see.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
So you had an interesting aha moment as a
parent that came about 10 yearsago.
You were frustrated with yourchildren, you were raising your
voice, you were telling them,you know, why don't you listen
to me?
And your 10-year-old at thetime, who happens to be a
strong-willed child, looked atyou straight in the eyes and
said, You always say I don'tlisten, but you're not listening
either.
(02:02):
So you stopped and you said,What?
And he said, You talk a lot, butyou don't hear me.
And it hit you hard because hewas right.
You were so focused on teachingthat you weren't really hearing
him.
And that was a moment thatchanged how you parent because
you realize connection has tocome before correction.
And you started listening moreand lecturing less, and then
everything shifted between youand your child.
(02:25):
Anything else you can shareabout that moment that uh
transformed your journey as aparent?
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
Yeah, so I I definitely remember that moment.
It was about 12 years ago now.
So that particular child is now20.
So him and I can definitelyhave, you know, a deeper
conversation about that now thathe's an adult.
But when I look back at, youknow, 20-year-old Mesa, you
know, first becoming a mum andeven, you know, looking for
(02:51):
marriage and getting into sortof that um role of becoming a
wife and a mum, I don't think Iwas equipped.
I don't think that I was umquizzed enough or taught enough.
Um, we need licenses to get acar, we need, you know,
certification to do any role inthe world.
But when it comes to marriage,when it comes to becoming a
(03:11):
parent, we're kind of like tryyour best and here you go.
And I believe that the thingthat came out from that moment
now, when I reflect back, is Ijust didn't know how to be
confident within myself.
And so what ended up happeningis a lot of control into trying
to control these little humansaround me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
That's that's interesting you brought that up
because it ties into somethingthat we are big proponents of,
and that's a hot topic, which ispremarital training, preparing
people to get ready formarriage.
But you're also talking aboutlike pre-parenting training,
essentially, and and teachingpeople the basic tools for
parenting, which segues into myfirst question, which is do you
(03:54):
feel that there's not enough ofthose courses out there
available for parents or for youknow newlyweds that are looking
to become parents, or peoplejust thinking the same way that
you kind of thought aboutparenting, which is it'll just
come over time?
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Yeah, I would I would go as far as to say um
that it should be compulsory forall people going into a
relationship, deciding to getmarried.
Let's put having children aside,but just entering a full-time
relationship, looking formarriage, especially in our
culture and our religion, thatyou must learn about your inner
child, you must learn aboutattachment theory, you must
(04:31):
learn about the ego.
I think these three topics mustbe compulsory for man and woman,
because it's these three thatform the foundation of why we
are the way we are, why somepeople, generally men, avoid
hard topics, and why somepeople, generally women, tend to
nag about wanting something doneor want to talk about something.
(04:53):
And so we fall into thissocietal norm of calling the
man, oh, he's just emotionless,and calling the woman, oh, she's
a complainer or a nag.
And so we put these two labelsand that's it, we're done.
But I'm proposing that we godeeper than that.
Why?
Why is the man or that personthat is avoiding, why are they
avoiding?
And why is this person who'sanxious, who's nagging, acting
(05:15):
that way?
And it almost always stems fromyour childhood.
And this is why it's soimportant for you to learn about
who you are so that you don'tcontinue the cycle into your
marriage because you willcontinue it.
It's the only thing that youknow how.
And something that I learnedvery early on is they say a
familiar hell is better than anunfamiliar heaven, meaning that
(05:39):
when our nervous system comesacross something that's a new,
we don't want that.
We want to continue doing ourpatterns that we've always done
because this is what we findsafe.
SPEAKER_04 (05:49):
Okay, so you're saying that our childhood
experiences, we bring them upwith us and like raising our
children.
So, in your experience, like,can you give examples, I don't
know, of uh a trauma that waslingering in a parent's life and
he or she brought it with likewith them in the raising of the
children?
SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Oh, where do I start?
I mean, every single thing isbased on that.
Um, I have coached thousands,but I'll start first closer to
home myself.
So essentially I grew up as aobedient, good girl, followed
the rules, didn't really rufflea lot of feathers.
(06:30):
Um, and then I had a child whoquestioned everything, who found
a loophole in every single rule,who would call me from school
and say, But mum, the schoolhandbook says you, you know, you
can get your phone taken off youif they see the phone, but my
phone's in my pocket and nobodycan actually see it.
(06:51):
And I was like, why are you likethis?
Just don't use the phone.
And so what was happening is Iwas projecting my just stick to
the rules and absolutelyignoring this child's reality.
And so I'll jump a little bithere, and this is where a lot of
people misunderstand me andthink that I'm teaching them to
(07:12):
say, Oh, sweetheart, that mustbe so hard for you.
No, I do not swing to that, butwhat I do, and I've practiced
this for two decades now, is Idon't bring myself, my problems,
into this particular problemthat my child is dealing with.
And so it's this differentiationbetween me as a person and what
I went through as a child, andnow there is a different human
(07:35):
that Allah has blessed me with,and they are their own human.
And for some reason, Allah hasmade this particular child just
see loopholes, guys, in everyrule.
He says rules like guidelines.
He's like, really?
They said five o'clock, 5.30 isfine.
Whereas I'm like, five o'clockmeans 4.55 kind of person.
And no one is right, no one iswrong, there's just a healthy or
(07:57):
unhealthy way.
And so these are how parentsstart to struggle.
But I'm gonna go one step moreand suggest that it's not just
parenting, it's literally at thestart of a relationship.
You see, before any parent talksto me about parenting, I'm like,
let's talk about therelationship first.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
It kind of reminds me of what we talk about in our
workshops.
So we talk a lot aboutcompatibility assessment, how to
assess compatibility.
And what people sometimes failto realize is that it begins
with you first, not the otherperson.
And parenting, based on whatyou're saying, feels like the
same way.
It doesn't begin with the child,it begins with you.
It begins with understanding whoyou are, what triggers you, what
(08:36):
doesn't trigger you, yourexpectations, and then you can
begin that journey, right?
So, going along that line, whatwould be some of the first
questions to ask a single personor a single person should be
asking a potential spouse aboutkids before marriage?
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
So I think um just quickly reminding those that are
listening today, um, trigger,this word trigger comes up a lot
now.
It's one of those hot topics.
And I just want to remind everyhuman out there that's listening
to this that your child or yourpartner didn't create that
trigger.
You know, the trigger wasalready there.
So I want I want to use a bit ofan analogy.
(09:14):
Just imagine I have a bruisehere underneath my jacket, you
guys can't see it, and say Hibawalked past and accidentally
fell on me or pushed my arm, andI'm gonna say, ouch, she's not
gonna know I've got the bruise,but I'm going to be hurt from
it.
That is exactly what happens inall relationships.
There is a trigger there, forexample, mess, noise, um, you
(09:37):
know, answering back.
I've got parents who aretriggered by just their child
saying no, saying the word no.
I've got parents that literallyjust lose their minds because
they can't handle hearing no.
And what does that tell me?
That tells me that there are avariety of reasons that that
could be.
But the most common one is thatthey were not given flexibility
(10:00):
in their childhood, and theywere, you know, brought up in
quite a strict regimentedhousehold.
And so here they are now havingthis child say no to them again,
very strictly regimented.
And so the parent just, youknow, closes up.
That's a trigger.
So you don't want to go into arelationship becoming a
psychologist and being like,tell me about your triggers.
(10:21):
I wouldn't recommend that.
But I think what's superimportant is to understand and
learn about your futureprospects love language.
You really want to understandum, you know, what really kind
of um made them happy when theywere young.
I love to hear about adultstelling me about what brought
(10:41):
them joy as a child.
And a lot of adults strugglewith this.
And when I push parents a littlebit more, a little bit more, and
they'll be like, yeah, I reallyenjoyed colouring in, you know,
on a Saturday morning, or Ienjoyed riding my bike.
And so get to know your futurepartner's joys as a little kid.
Get to know what they founddifficult as a kid.
(11:02):
Um, get to know about theirvalue system.
There is so um many quizzes outthere, you can do it together or
separately.
Knowing your values isunderstanding your flavor, your
style of personality.
So we all as humans valuehonesty, for example.
I mean, there's not many peoplethat will say, no, I don't mind
someone that lies to me.
(11:23):
I don't think we'll find manypeople that say that.
But for some people, honestycomes really high up on their
priority list.
And so they will take it veryoffensively if you, you know,
don't tell the full storystraight off the bat.
Um, so value system, what theyloved, what they enjoyed as a
kid, um, their love language.
I love to know about um people'slove languages.
SPEAKER_04 (11:46):
Okay, well, is it like a single Muslim right now
listening is thinking like, allI care about right now is just
getting married, findingsomeone, it's already hard
enough.
Do I really have to think aboutparenting?
So, how actually important isparenting compatibility?
Like, can two people who havecompletely different parenting
(12:07):
philosophies actually getmarried and have children?
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
The short answer is yes, because children only need
one emotionally stable adult orcaregiver to become emotionally
stable themselves.
SubhanAllah.
So the ideal situation obviouslyis two parents.
I worked once with a parent, um,a young gentleman who was raised
(12:32):
by two parents who wereunstable, but he had an amazing
taekwondo coach that was withhim for 13 plus years, and this
particular coach guided him andhe credits that.
So humans need at least oneadult that believes in them,
that trusts them, that givesthem.
But for the sake of justsimplicity for this podcast, my
answer to you is you know, twopeople getting married with
(12:57):
opposite parenting styles doesnot mean the end of a
relationship.
However, it does make it tricky.
If you have two people on theopposite ends of the spectrum,
we've got a permissive and we'vegot a strict, then you're going
to find clashes.
Of course you are.
It's like even in a workplaceenvironment, in any
relationship.
So if you're about to getmarried or you're single and
(13:19):
you've met somebody who seems tobe super strict on the
discipline punishment side, justprepare yourself that there's
going to be differences andclashes.
And it's not going to be a walkin the park.
It will require you to help yourpartner either, you know, become
less stressed about thepunishments itself.
SPEAKER_04 (13:39):
Okay.
So what are the parenting stylesout there?
We you said permissive, strict,and what else?
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Yeah, so there's permissive.
Um, the full term for strict isum authoritarian.
And then there is um let's sayum laissez faire, like that kind
of um, you know, almost on thesame path hierarchy as a child.
And then there's something thatI call emotionally intelligent
parenting.
(14:07):
So it's this fourth um categorythat I really strive for parents
to aim for.
Um, Dr.
Shafali calls it consciousparenting.
There's all these words for it.
Gentle parenting also has got anegative connotation with it,
because unfortunately, peoplethink gentle means weak.
However, this particular styleof parenting is about you being
(14:30):
the mature adult and you beingpresent in the moment.
So this requires a skill forwhen your child is having a
tantrum because they want theblue cup, not the red cup.
It requires a skill for theadult to remain an adult.
And I know you you both canthink of a situation where I can
think of tennis players who'velost it.
(14:50):
I can think of adults in roadrage, right?
So I'm not talking aboutparenting only.
Adults require practice to holdtheir emotions, not forget them,
not dismiss them, but control.
And this is a skill set, guys,that I don't think we're taught
enough about.
Control your emotion, but notmeaning yes, walk all over me.
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
Okay.
I'm glad you mentionedmeltdowns.
Uh I actually work at achildcare center, so I work with
infants, toddlers, andpreschoolers.
It's a Montessori school.
So I'm a CASA trained teacher,so I see a lot of what you're
talking about, but I love the Ilove to talk a little bit about
meltdowns.
And so a child, for example,wanted the blue cup, but the
child got the red cup, and theyare just losing it.
(15:36):
What as an educator or parent umshould they be doing in that
moment?
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Yeah, I love this question because it actually
allows me to talk more aboutthinking of the situation like
you've got options.
Okay.
And so it requires you as theadult to decide which option am
I going to take.
So we're going to take yourexample.
Can you get the red cup?
(16:04):
Is it possible you've given theblue cup, but there is a red cup
and it's like a meter away.
Is it gonna break the bank toget the red cup?
If you can, go get the red cupand hand it to the child with
joy.
Okay, mate, no worries, here yougo.
In full Aussie um dialect there,and give them the red cup.
Let's say you can't give the redcup for whatever reason.
(16:25):
It's in the dishwasher, there isno red cup, somebody else has
got the red cup, red cup is notavailable.
So then you are required now tomake a secondary decision.
What can you do to help thechild through this moment?
For us as adults, we're like,are you kidding me?
It's just a red cup.
Because we have got a maturebrain, inshallah, and we know
that this is a very smallproblem compared to what we know
(16:47):
in life experience.
But for your three,four-year-old Montessori kids'
aid, that is the end of theworld for them because they
don't have life experience.
So our role is to kind of go,hey, I'm really sorry that you
can't have the red cup, but Iwould love, and here is where I
would insert something to helpthem through it.
But I would love to sit with youand I'll drink out of the blue
(17:07):
cup too, and you drink out of ablue cup.
Or I would love for you to waitfive minutes and I can get you
the red cup.
Or, um, you know, do you want toget the green cup?
Do you want to pour your ownjuice in the cup?
We want to help the childthrough that moment, not because
we're spoiling them, but becauseit's a fundamental aspect of
human nature to help somebodythrough a hard time.
(17:28):
If I've entered a nurse's officeto get my blood taken for a
blood test, and I'm looking alittle bit uneasy.
Generally speaking, the nurseisn't going to say, now, Mesa,
come on, you're 42 years old,just look at the needle, look at
the blood coming out.
They don't do that.
What do nurses do?
They're like, Oh, look at thepainting.
(17:49):
How was your day?
Oh, it's okay.
And I'm a grown adult.
But for some reason, when itcomes to children, we're kind of
like, Yella, come on, it's justa blue cup, it's not a big deal.
And so, Zaid, like in summary,what do I do in this situation?
I ask parents to look at theoptions they have in front of
them and retain that maturity.
SPEAKER_04 (18:10):
Yeah, just a question, honestly.
It might be a little bit of aharsh question.
So in my life, I came across alot of kids who were ruined
because of the way they werebrought up.
And I think to myself, as harshas it might sound, some people
shouldn't have children.
Do you come across situationslike this?
Like children who whose liveswere ruined and who grew up to
(18:32):
be like, I don't know how to saybad adults, like in a more
polite way.
Do you come across thesesituations?
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Absolutely.
I believe that we mentionedearlier, I believe you have to
pass certain tests to get alicense.
I really do believe that withparenting.
I believe that some people justdon't have enough maturity to
become parents, and I witnessedthat.
Unfortunately, that childbecomes an adult, and then it
becomes that adult'sresponsibility to go to therapy,
(19:02):
to not continue the cycles.
It's very hard work.
And, you know, this is a strongreminder also for those
listening that entitlementdoesn't just happen overnight.
You don't just wake up andbecome a ruined child.
Okay, I'm gonna go into somereally deep things here, but no
child wakes up and is suddenlyspoiled.
No child wakes up and suddenlydecides they don't want to be
(19:24):
here anymore.
You know, these really deepthings, no one wakes up and
says, I don't, I want to, youknow, treat my parents badly, I
don't want to stay in thereligion, I want to hurt my
brother.
I all of these really bigtopics, no child wakes up just
suddenly one day and does that.
There is a build-up, guys.
It is a build-up.
There is evidence, there arehints, no human gives no hint.
(19:49):
Everybody gives a hint.
And eventually, after X amountof hints, the child reacts.
Now, obviously, the younger thechild, the faster the reaction,
hence why they'll, you know,swipe the cup away quickly.
But your 15-year-old who islocking themselves in the room
because they don't want to comeout, that didn't happen
overnight.
You have to check in on what'sgoing on for this kid.
Entitlement only happens, aspoilt kid only happens when you
(20:14):
do not teach a child to handlefrustrating situations.
That's the only way entitlementhappens.
But not just once.
So I've got a lot of parentsthat are like, oh my God, I did
this on Saturday.
No, the key here is consistency,sorry, is intensity and
frequency.
So how often are you saving thechild?
(20:35):
How often are you doing it?
Are you doing it every time?
Oh, my eight, I've got a17-year-old daughter.
She doesn't get invited tosomebody's birthday party, for
example.
Do I every single time say toher, you know what?
Don't worry about them.
It wasn't even that gonna bethat good anyway.
You know, what am I doing tohelp her through that really
frustrating moment?
She gets a a D on her essay.
(20:56):
What am I doing?
Am I always telling her, no,you're the best, you're the
smartest?
That's how we raise entitledchildren.
It doesn't just happenovernight.
And so when your child is goingthrough a tough moment, it's a
fine balance between resilienceand helping them.
And so, same goes for us, for usadults.
So I know that, you know, Idon't want to just focus on
(21:17):
parenting.
For those single, you know,single people out there or
entering a relationship of somesort.
I want to ask you, how do youdeal with hardships?
What do you do when you getrejected?
Because that is most likely howyou're going to handle it with
your kid.
SPEAKER_04 (21:33):
Beautiful, beautiful.
So, from that question, thisreminds me of another question
that was on the list ofquestions.
What are some red flags that aperson can see in a prospective
match in terms of just theconversations or like the way
they react to anything that cantell them a lot about their
future parenting style?
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Yeah, this question made me smile a bit because I
ended up writing and listingdown basically everything I
heard in the 80s.
Um I don't know how old you guysare, but I was like, wow, our
parents really did try theirbest.
Um, God bless them.
But things like uh children areto be seen, not heard, red flag.
Um things like uh my parents hitme and I turned out fine.
(22:19):
Red flag.
Um, I'll never let my child cry.
Red flag.
Um, you know, mothers shouldinsert rule, stay at home with
the child, or fathers shouldinsert rule.
All of these are red flagsbecause they show rigidity.
(22:40):
So what we want in a partnershipis we don't want any shoulds,
okay, other than health, safety,and legality.
Of course, these arenon-negotiables, these are
common sense.
Whoever's listening to this,please use your common sense
here.
But everything else comes underflexibility, comes under the
idea of um reacting and likeunderstanding the life that is
(23:02):
going to happen isn't going tobe straightforward.
And yes, sometimes children doneed to sit still and listen,
but to put it as a general rule,that's just unfair.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
Yeah, so that brings me to another point, which is um
schooling.
That's usually a hot topic.
You know, what you want to knowas you're speaking to a
potential spouse their approach.
And usually it's a very binaryconversation, whether it's
whether it's homeschooling orpublic or private school.
So, how should a couple navigatethis conversation before
(23:36):
marriage?
And is there more to it thatthey're missing?
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
This is a really good question because I reflect
on my own experiences.
So my children have been to 14different schools.
I think I have covered a lot oflife journey in this, and I also
have worked with so many kidsand parents from different kinds
of walks of life, and I can saythis very rarely does a child
(24:01):
need to change schools.
Very rarely.
If a child is having a problemat a school, I would say it
would be one out of 100 parentsthat needs to change the school.
Because yes, sometimes the childneeds a new start.
I agree with that.
But when you're sitting withyour partner, or if you want to
think about this to yourself, ifyou're not married yet, you want
(24:22):
to really ask yourself, not likewhere will the child study, but
what am I hoping?
What kind of learner do I wantmy child to become?
What am I hoping that they'regoing to, how am I hoping that
they're going to learn?
What do I want to drive in them?
And so for me, the mostimportant part is environment.
(24:42):
So friendship plays the biggestrole in a child's life.
Research has shown thatenvironment plays the biggest
role.
So you really want to be mindfulof the environment you're going
into and the idea that schoolsand teachers can only do so
much.
I was a teacher for many years,and I'm just here to remind
people that teachers are human.
We have 25 odds or so students.
(25:04):
Um, it's a tough job, it'sunderpaid and undervalued, and
teachers can only get a child toa certain spot, and then it's
the parent that plays thebiggest role of all.
Um, so the conversation is moreabout what do I want my child,
you know, to become, who do Iwant them to become more than
grades itself.
SPEAKER_04 (25:26):
Yeah.
So is there a third optionbesides homeschooling or private
public school?
SPEAKER_02 (25:32):
I mean, no.
I think that um there are thereare a few programs that I've
heard that kind of do a bit ofboth.
I know that um here in Dubaiwe've got some programs or you
can go into a school kind ofsetting part-time, but then also
work at home.
Um, essentially look atyourself.
Look at yourself.
(25:53):
Can you handle homeschooling?
Are you that type of person?
How's your scheduling?
How's your organization?
What are the ages of thechildren that you have?
What are you trying to do?
If you're trying to shelter yourchild from topics that you don't
want to deal with, then that's avery, very deep thing that you
will have to work on becauseeventually that kid will grow up
(26:14):
and want to know about thattopic, that stereotype that you
don't want them to know about.
SPEAKER_04 (26:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You you mentioned uh when youwere talking about red flags,
one of the red flags is umstatements like the mother
should always ta-ta-ta, or thefather should always ta-ta-ta.
Um what about like gender roles?
Is there are there like fixedgender roles when it comes to
parenting, or is it more of aflexible matter?
SPEAKER_02 (26:39):
Yeah, so this question has always played on my
mind.
I've got three boys and onegirl, and I always like to think
of the way I parent them isbased on their personality more
than their gender.
So I often get questions like,oh, it's harder raising girls
than boys, isn't it?
And I don't agree with that.
I mean, sometimes by coincidenceit might be, but it's got to do
(27:02):
with character.
Because you can have astrong-willed, determined, break
the rule kind of girl, and youcan have an easy-going, obedient
boy.
And vice versa.
So you want to look at the childyou have in front of you.
What kind of child do you havein front of you?
Do you have somebody that isopen to listening?
Are they going to follow thecrowd?
Are they going to not think forthemselves?
(27:23):
Because even though I touch alot on the strong-willed
child's, um, we can call themchallenges or negatives, the
strong-willed child will neverbow down to peer pressure.
So, hand on heart, I can easilysay when my son, you know, would
go out, he didn't do anythingthat he didn't want to do.
Whereas I've got another child,for example, same gender, they
(27:44):
will do something they don'twant to do to follow.
And so what's important withgender roles is to ask, um, you
know, like, who we who is thischild in front of me?
What do I need to help themwith?
Not just, oh, they're a girl, soI need to teach them modesty.
That topic is for both genders.
SPEAKER_04 (28:03):
Yes, yes, yes.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
What about gender roles when itcomes to the mother and father?
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
Yeah.
So this is this is somethingthat I mean, we're evolving,
right?
We're we're starting to, youknow, enter different um seasons
in our life.
And I don't really want to saythat, oh, everything should be
just flexible.
Again, I always come back downto what's working, what's not
(28:30):
working for you, more than youare the mum, therefore, right?
Or you are the dad, therefore.
We really want to maintain thelevel of reality.
So if it works that the mum orthe woman stays at home with the
child because it works, then youcan do that.
But for some women, so manywomen I work with, they are a
(28:52):
better mother when they areworking, right?
They are a better mother whenthey have gone out into the into
their career and come home.
Now that might put some stresson the family with childcare,
with you know, being far fromthe from the child.
But then I would also delvedeeper with the mother and the
father and ask them some morequestions.
What are you running away withor running away from?
(29:14):
Why do you feel like this child,you know, really drags you down
or you can't handle yourtwo-year-old's tantrums?
What's going on there?
SPEAKER_04 (29:22):
This reminds me of my sister.
I hope she's not listening.
She she has a beautiful boy andgirl, and um, she works so much,
um, like sometimes 10 hours aday or something.
And when she gets home, she'stired, she's exhausted,
understandably.
And she has a very strong-willeddaughter who like who wants
attention and who wants to beloud, and but she doesn't have
(29:45):
energy for her.
And then we're noticing likeshe's developing some behavioral
issues that were not dealt with.
I hope she doesn't take them onlike to her adulthood or
something.
SPEAKER_02 (29:55):
So, I mean, this is when I would sit with the adult
and we would do a full Look atyour schedule, not yours, but at
the at the person's schedule.
And really, you know, I workwith a lot of men about this as
well.
I know this is very genderstereotype, but I often work
with men and and women and Isay, okay, so that half an hour
of you taking your time andhaving a dinner alone and then
(30:18):
coming home.
Honestly, I've done, I've madethem time it, right, guys.
Bear with me so I explain this.
I said, you come home at seveno'clock and you're buggered,
you're tired, you can't bedealing with anything.
And for one hour, it's thisfighting happening between you
and the kid, and you can't bebothered and you're tired and
you're hungry and you're allthis stuff.
So that's one hour minimum.
If you've got a strongwilledkid, they can go for two.
(30:41):
Now, you finish at seven at workand you stop by the local cafe,
or you go to the gym, or youcall your friend from the
driveway, and you take half anhour or one hour to do whatever
you need to do, and you calmdown, you get your cortisol
down, right?
You get your blood sugars right,you take off your shoes, your
heels, you're helping yourselfregulate.
(31:02):
Now, when you come home, true,you don't have a long time, but
you've walked in more regulated.
So now that two hours that youjust wasted, well, guess what?
You've got another hour now todo your thing.
And the harsh reality is this,and I can't sugarcoat it any
more than this, but your kid didnot ask to be born.
They didn't ask to be born.
(31:23):
They don't know.
They don't know that you've hada long day.
They're just like, yay, thegreatest person in the world has
walked through the door.
So I'm going to give them somuch stress because I want them
to give me so much attention.
And by the way, fun fact, adultsdo it too.
Well, yeah, we do it to ourpartners all the time.
We do not say when we'restressed, oh hello, dear
partner, I'm so glad you'rehome.
(31:45):
I'm feeling really undervaluedat the moment.
So can you please give me somespace?
No, we're like, you're home now?
Oh.
We do that.
And then and then the and thenthe partner's not gonna go, wow,
it sounds like you're reallystressed.
No, the partner's gonna go, doyou know what kind of day I've
had?
And this is what I come in hometo?
(32:06):
I'm not gonna come home anymore.
And so on.
And so all that I'm saying topeople listening to this is that
adults are little childreninside adult bodies.
We do the same thing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
There's some there's some laughing here.
Yeah, because I just can't likethink of an incident or two
where we had similar situations.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
I can also, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:31):
Yeah, for example, guys, when they're hungry, they
can't be bothered to do anythingor talk about anything.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
Nope.
So I think a legitimate fearthat comes to many single
Muslims' minds is especiallyMuslims living in the West, is
keeping their Islamic identityalive while raising children in
a secular environment.
And especially in a time wherethey're trying to separate
between gender and sex and andthere's all this kind of
(33:01):
confusion happening.
And I don't know what it's muchlike in Australia or in Dubai,
but do you think singles needwhat like what do you think
singles need to prepare for inthis unique challenge before
they marry?
SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
Yeah, fear less, concentrate on your home life.
I can't say this enough, and Idon't say it to be this kind of
liberal, you know, let's justblend in, you know, to the
society.
I say this from a developmentpoint of view, I say it from a
psychological point of view.
If we just concentrated more onour home life, things would be
so much better.
(33:33):
So let's take, for example, youknow, talking to our children
about um different gendersthat's coming up and this topic
that might come up in lots ofschools.
I mean, in Dubai we're a littlebit more sheltered, but it's
there wherever you are in theworld, especially in the Western
world.
I completely appreciate that.
The idea isn't to bombard achild with information, it's not
(33:54):
to um, you know, get yourselfriled up and stressed out about
it.
The idea behind any difficultconversation you're gonna have,
and you will have many with yourpartner, with your children, you
know, you will have manydifficult conversations.
The idea is that you have to beconfident in yourself first.
So before I go in and have achat with my kid about this hard
(34:17):
topic, I'm not gonna go in thereand be like, oh, look, I don't
know, but I really think thatthis is the right way.
Do you know what Allah says?
Like, you're not gonna go inthere like that.
You're gonna prepare yourselfand ask yourself, what is my
point?
What at what point am I tryingto put across?
And how much can I control?
How much can I control as theparent in this life?
(34:39):
Because you can't control yourfriend's kid's phone device
usage.
Can't do that.
But what you can control is howyour kid responds when their
friends, you know, put upsomething on the device.
And even then, you still can'tcontrol that because children
have free will, and for whateverreason, usually I call it
immaturity, some kids will go,yes, mom, sure, I will say no,
(35:03):
and then in the moment they sayyes, right?
But then what are you gonna doabout it?
So I think Zayd, what's superimportant here for us as
parents, as Muslim parents, youknow, living in the West, is
that we have to ask ourselves,how much are we driving our
parenting from fear?
And how much are we driving ourparenting from confidence?
(35:24):
And there is a very bigdifference between the two.
SPEAKER_04 (35:27):
Honestly, like listening to like the
responsibilities of appearanceand how to control you.
We're talking about likecontrolling your emotions,
sounds like a very difficultjob.
And like controlling youremotions day after day after
day, isn't it gonna like resultin like suppressed emotions and
suddenly you're just gonna blow,blow up in your child or in your
(35:49):
coworker or something?
SPEAKER_02 (35:50):
Yeah, is it as difficult as it sounds?
Oh no, I've then I need to do abetter job at explaining it,
Hiba, because that what you'redescribing is called passive
patience.
The really big differencebetween control of emotions and
passive patience.
Passive patience is when you putup with something.
Okay, he's yelled at me once andtwice, didn't want the blue cup
(36:11):
today, doesn't want the greencup then, sister hit the
brother, did it, did it, right?
You're gonna blow up.
If you don't blow up, I'll bereally worried because humans
blow up.
That is not what I teach.
Emotional regulation andemotional intelligence is the
ability to control your emotion,but it does not mean that we're
happy.
(36:31):
So when my kid wants the bluecup, I'm allowed to be
frustrated.
So I'm not going, you can't havethe blue cup.
By the way, kids will look atyou like you're crazy if you do
that, right?
Instead, I I can show, I caneven say, hey, I'm really
frustrated.
I offered you the blue cup andyou want the green cup.
The green cup's in thedishwasher.
Again, age appropriate.
(36:52):
Obviously, you don't say this toa one-year-old.
However, I want to cast yourmind to something else that
might help you, Hiber.
Would we say the same thing to aPT who every day for the last
one year has gone and donepull-ups?
You know, those really hardthings to do.
When you do pull-ups for oneyear, do your muscles bust open
(37:14):
and you suddenly can't do anymore pull-ups?
Do the pull-ups get easier?
Yeah.
That is exactly the same asbrain training.
When you learn to control youremotions in an emotionally
intelligent way, and there is away, there are five steps to it,
then by the time you've done itenough times, you can not blow
(37:38):
up as much anymore.
So for myself, a decade or sointo it, I now have a much
longer threshold for me to quoteunquote lose it.
I would need to have a reallylike there has to be a lot of
things that that's gone on forme to lose it.
And if I am losing it veryquickly, then I need to touch on
(37:59):
myself physiologically.
So asking myself, have I hadwater, have I had sleep, have I
eaten, and have I had any kindof connection, any love?
They're the four things thathumans need.
Other than that, it would take alot for my child to push those
buttons.
SPEAKER_04 (38:16):
Seems like a crucial skill every parent should have,
honestly.
SPEAKER_02 (38:19):
Absolutely.
Emotional intelligence is thething that needs to be
compulsory before you become, Imean, before even parenting, we
need to be practicing this thingfrom a very young age, but they
just don't teach it in schools.
I mean, now they're getting alot better, don't get me wrong.
Um, but parents can do this withchildren at home.
(38:39):
Um, just really quickly, thefirst way you do it is by
modeling it.
The second way you do it is bynaming it, so labeling it to a
child.
Oh, you're feeling frustratedright now.
The third way you do it is byteaching the kid what to do with
that frustration.
We don't want to teach them topunch, punch a hole in the wall,
but we want to teach them totake deep breaths.
And the fourth way to do it isto repeat, repeat, show them
(39:02):
examples.
Oh, look, that person was angryand they took a deep breath, and
now look at what happened.
And that's how we teach childrenemotional intelligence.
SPEAKER_04 (39:12):
Wow, you know, reflecting on the way we were
brought up, and like you said,God bless our parents, they did
the best they could.
They didn't have access to anyof this information.
And like, I'm glad that weturned out okay.
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Did we?
We have the highest rates oflike depression and anxiety in
like the history of the world.
SPEAKER_03 (39:32):
I guess, I guess, but we didn't turn out to be
murderers or something.
So at least that's that's that'strue.
SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
But but going back to that point, it just feels
like given that we're living inthe digital age, there's just an
inundation of content out there,you know, TikTok reels about
gentle parenting, then you gotthe Montessori reels, and
everybody is giving endlessadvice about how what approach
to take.
And so it almost feels likethere's these unrealistic
expectations about parenting.
(40:01):
Um, so how do you filter throughthat and and try to understand
what is right and what's wrongwhen it comes to parenting?
Or is there no right and wrong?
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
Yeah, I mean, I always like to think of
parenting as healthy orunhealthy.
There isn't really right orwrong.
Again, the common sense beingthat emotional, you know, mental
and physical abuse is a definitestraight into the wrong
category.
But when we look at parentingmethods, there is no wrong or
right.
It's just what do you want toachieve as a parent?
(40:32):
So for me, very high up on mylist is I wanted to become
somebody that my children canlook up to and copy from.
Right?
This is another kind of littleaha moment that I had, you know,
when I was thinking about mydaughter.
So about 15 years ago, I wassitting down and I thought, what
would I like my daughter to dowhen she's mad?
(40:55):
Then I need to do that because Ican't be like, oh, I really wish
for my daughter to grow up to bethis young lady who takes 10
deep breaths and you knowdoesn't let anyone walk all over
her and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
And then I wasn't doing that.
So we really need to askourselves the question of, am I
modeling it?
So back to social media.
I have a firm belief thatoverintellectualization is a
(41:18):
thing.
I don't know if it's a thing, Ihaven't done thesis work on it,
but it has to be a thing becausedo you know how many self-help
books people own?
And so what I suggest andrecommend to parents is that you
can't go past um good enoughparenting.
So, what does that mean?
That means that we want to aimto live in the present moment
(41:39):
and not just keep trying tounderstand why.
Like, why am I like this?
Why did my parent do that?
Why did my dad do that?
And I push and I challengeparents that work with me to
start to think outside of thebox of why and more about okay,
what can I do?
What can I be?
(42:01):
How can I react from this orchange from this?
And once we start posing thesedifferent questions, we stop
putting ourselves as the centertopic and we start to think
about the child in front of usor like the problem that we
have.
So if me and my partner arealways arguing about who is
going to do the dishes, right?
Let's just take that reallysimple example, and you're
(42:21):
always tired of reminding himand he's tired of always being
told, just a simplestereotypical example.
Then rather than, oh, why doesthis keep happening?
I encourage um couples to startto think about okay, what do you
want to happen and what are youtrying to achieve here?
And then we can focus on gettingthe logistics out.
Because nine times out of tenwith couples, you're both saying
(42:43):
the same thing in a differentway.
SPEAKER_04 (42:46):
Um, unrelated question.
Do you think children arecompletely formed by their
environment, whether that'sparents, uh, school, friends,
friends, or is there like a partthat they are born with, like a
nature that they have?
SPEAKER_02 (43:02):
Absolutely.
Children are born with a nature.
Children are born, there are 400different psychological traits
that can be chosen by Allah tocreate your child's personality.
And we don't know what the drawis because I've met two very,
very loud parents who've got ashy child.
I've met two very quiet parentswho've got a loud child.
(43:24):
I've met everything, all thecombinations you can think of.
I've met children that are areplica of their father,
children that are a replica oftheir grandfather.
It doesn't matter about, youknow, what is the right
combination.
What we need to start off withis understanding the genetic
part of it, which is kind ofpotluck.
Yani subhanAllah, we don't know,right?
(43:45):
And then from there on, andafter probably the age of two,
because before two, the child ispretty much like the baby is
pretty much convinced onconnection only, right?
But after two, what happens isyou have to start to parent the
child in front of you, not thechild you wish you had.
(44:06):
So I'll give you an example.
If after two, you seem to have avelcro toddler, you know, a
toddler that just clings to yourlick.
Even when you get to the playcenter, the kid's like, no, stay
with me.
And you're like, what?
We're at a play center.
Go, be free, have fun.
I wish I was taken to a playcenter.
Then you are not parenting thechild in front of you.
(44:27):
You're parenting what you wishyou had.
The child in front of you isasking you to, hey, slow down,
walk me there.
For some strange reason, theirbrain is like, this is danger.
There's a lot of sight, sounds.
That's what the child in frontof you needs.
Now let's flip it around.
If you have, I call them thestage children that are just
like, see ya, and just like runsinto the play center, doesn't
(44:50):
even look behind them, andyou're like, no, wait, you need
to do no no no like all of thiskind of um careful business,
then you're not parenting thechild in front of you.
You're parenting the child youwish you had, who was somebody
that was like slower and gavesalam nicely and just talked
very um elegantly to theirgrandparents.
That's not the kid you have.
I don't know why that's not thekid you have, but it's just not.
(45:12):
So instead, you need to parentthe kid in front of you, which
might be lower expectations.
You know that this child is notgoing to give salams very slowly
and ask their grandparent howwas your day.
But you might go, hey, you'regonna give salams, you can give
a high five, and then you can goplay.
And so you've brought down yourexpectations.
(45:32):
So um nature definitely plays arole, and so does nurture.
And I think it's a very finebalance, but parents pay way too
much time trying to work outwhat is where and how, and what
did I do that ruined it?
I believe that we just need totake a backseat on that
conversation and just deal withthe reality we have in front of
us today.
(45:53):
Let the child lead, you mean?
I mean lead, but we can't wehave to also remember that when
my vivacious, fiery, spicy childwants to cross the road at the
age of at the age of five,that's a no.
SPEAKER_04 (46:08):
Of course not, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (46:09):
And when my child sees no harm in, you know,
sending photos, you know, onSnapchat as a teenager, that's a
no.
So what we're doing here iswe're going, oh right, this kid
loves to be social, this kidloves to be independent, but
there are rules in place that Iam in charge of.
You see, when you're parenting,you're not relying on when
(46:31):
you're an emotional, intelligentparent, you're not relying on
your kid to pat you on the backand say, Yeah, mom, thank you so
much for that boundary.
You kept me safe.
Oh my goodness, thank you.
No, your kid's gonna say, You'veruined my life, Snapchat is the
best.
And so you're not gonna look forthat instead.
These are all true stories,guys.
(46:52):
Um really truly.
And I'm like, really?
I hate you, mom.
All of that, all of that isgonna come at you, and you have
to be confident enough to knowthat they're not saying I hate
you, they're saying I hate yourrule because I don't agree with
it.
SPEAKER_01 (47:09):
Would you say that a general rule of thumb is
parenting is a thankless jobbecause your parent your kids
aren't gonna come to you andsay, Thank you for this, thank
you for that, but it's justsomething to be aware of, but
it's a rewarding job at the endof the day.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
Yeah, you know, um that yeah, I've got to think
about that one because I'm inthis blessed phase where I've
got these two younger kids andthen the two older kids.
So the thank yous do come.
So anyone listening out there,the thank yous do come and they
are they are just likeexcellent, but I do not rely on
(47:47):
them.
They come as a bonus, they donot come as an expectation.
So I would say um, you know,parenting is a it's a confident
job.
Parenting is a job that it'slike an occupational health and
safety officer job.
I don't know if you have that inyour side of the world, but
they're the person.
Yes, you do?
(48:07):
Okay, great.
So they're the person in theworkplace that not many people
like because they're puttingwitches' hats around the spilt
liquid on the floor and they'rechecking in on people's feelings
and all of that stuff, butthey're so vital to keeping
things safe.
And then you pass a stage whereyou now have to allow the child
(48:28):
to practice how to keepthemselves safe.
I just wonder how our parentsdid it.
They were like, okay, flee, gofor your life.
SPEAKER_03 (48:38):
Yeah, you know, sometimes, like Zaid and I, I'm
just gonna admit it, sometimeswe see parents doing things and
we think to ourselves, whenwe're parents, we're not gonna
do that.
SPEAKER_04 (48:48):
We're gonna make sure we don't do that, whether
it's like giving them tabletsand like unlimit unlimited
screen time.
SPEAKER_01 (48:55):
So let me talk about that.
Let me tell you.
So I have a friend who's uh whohas three girls and a boy, and
he's just beyond overwhelmed.
I think they're all under theage of five or six, and uh, and
but the one thing I alwaysnotice is they all have their
own tablet.
So whenever they go out to eat,he calls it free babysitting.
(49:15):
So they all have a tablet andthey're pre-occupied, and it
just works for him.
And I just think it's easy forme to say as someone who's not a
parent that, oh, I'm not gonnado that, I'm gonna figure it
out.
But at the same time, it's likeI don't know what he's going
through.
And this is probably the onething that works for me.
He doesn't have time to figureout another strategy.
So, what what's that that kindof ties into the topic of screen
(49:37):
time and what you should do?
But anything you can say aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (49:40):
Nothing's a problem until it's a problem.
So when parents come to me andthey're like, hey, Mesa, how's
my screen time with my kidgoing?
And I'm like, is there aproblem?
They're like, no, I'm like, thenI'm good.
If you want to give your kid ahundred hours of screen time, go
for it.
But if every single time, solet's take screen time away for
a second and let's say just somedifferent examples.
(50:01):
If every single day you have tobribe your kid to, I don't know,
go to soccer practice, that's aproblem.
If every, or not every, but mostoften you have to reward, bribe,
threaten your child to eat theirdinner, that's a problem.
If very often you go to arestaurant and the only way that
(50:22):
you can get your kids to calmdown and eat is with a tablet,
then it's generally a problembecause it means that it's
masking something else.
Now, on your friends list, itmust might not be a very top
priority problem.
I'm fine with.
But if you come to see me andyou're like, this is really
bothering me, then I'm here tohelp you with situations like
that.
(50:42):
And so when it comes to screentime, I always say that the
device itself is not the enemy.
It can't be.
Look how wonderful devices are,look what we're doing together
today.
Devices in and of themselves arebrilliant, but the difference
between medicine and poison isthe dosage.
So, what is the kid doing on thedevice and for how long?
(51:04):
Because my daughter Googlemeeting with her friends for two
hours is very different than herplaying Call of Duty for two
hours.
It's a very different, you know,brain um thing that's going on.
So you want to be very preciseabout the thing that we're
talking about.
So screen time, um, I would beasking you if you came to me,
I'd be saying, okay, when is itbeing used?
(51:26):
How's it being used?
I sometimes tell parents, thekid's not in, you know, at
fault.
Change a password, hide theiPad.
You know, sometimes I go to workand I take the TV remote with me
because I know that my little,yeah, absolutely, because I know
that my little child whose brainis this big cannot help
themselves to the temptations,guys.
(51:46):
Think about us as adults.
Can we help it when we'rescrolling?
Sometimes we can't.
So why would I risk thisparticular thing happening?
Now, if I have to every timetake the remote with me to work,
then there's a problem.
And also, am I choosing mybattles?
So this is the beauty withparenting.
We can't just be take the remotewith us to work, and we can't
(52:09):
also be, yeah, just let thechild make their own decisions.
There are so many options in themiddle.
So I once had a parent come tome and say, Oh, Mesa, every time
I'm on the phone, my kidrealizes, and or I'm on a
meeting and they'll come andthey'll get more screen time.
But do you know what I didyesterday?
Oh, I didn't give in.
And I said, Really?
What happened?
She said, Finally, the bankcalled me back.
(52:31):
I was waiting for this reallyimportant call.
And guess what?
I didn't even take the callbecause I stuck to my guns.
And I said, You missed a bankappointment, like so that you
don't give your kid more screentime.
La, in this particularsituation, give the kid the
screen time, take the importantcall, and this is where parents
kind of fluctuate between thisbinary of yes and no.
(52:55):
You've got to look at thesituation in front of you.
For me to do this call at 5 p.m.
on a weekday, you best believethat I've got all the devices
happening in my household.
Because what else am I going todo in a 50-degree country where
kids are on school break and thehumidity is so high that you
can't go outside?
And so this is where alsoparent, you know, parents start
(53:18):
to forget that we don't live inthis world of yes, sure, go
climb a tree.
I know I've gone on a tangent abit, but I hope I answered your
question, Zaid.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (53:28):
What other interesting stories do you have
for us?
SPEAKER_02 (53:31):
Oh, where where do I start?
Tell me some tell me somecategories.
SPEAKER_04 (53:36):
Some categories.
I don't know, a success story,like parents who like hadn't
figured it out and like atransformation happened.
SPEAKER_02 (53:44):
Yeah, okay.
Well, so many.
I had a mum who was adamant thather kid was broken, just
eight-year-old boy, rude,arrogant, um, never listened,
angry, just adamant.
And she worked with me for threesolid months.
Because going back to thatthing, Hiba, where oh, we've
(54:07):
lost saying, going back to thatthing where um you can't just
solve something in the onesitting, like the same thing
with the pull-ups.
Um, so over the three-monthperiod, we worked on her.
So I would ask her to thinkabout how does she react to the
to the child, what are herexpectations.
We literally altered herschedule around to be more
(54:28):
realistic, to be more logistic,and by the third month and
onwards till today, her littleher little boy um is pleasant,
is funny, is creative, isindependent, and she's loving
parenting.
Masha'Allah, in three months.
SPEAKER_04 (54:44):
Yeah, three months.
Looks like we're the ones whohave to get the training, not
the child, like the problem isus, not the children.
The children, I guess, areteaching us in their own way.
SPEAKER_02 (54:56):
They are, they can't help it.
They can't be like, yo, mom, Ifeel really stressed out today.
They just can't do that at theseages that we're talking about.
Instead, they will push theirbrother when they feel jealous
or they will do things, theywon't listen to us for a certain
reason.
Um, I had a lovely Canadian mumonce come to me with probably
(55:17):
the most strong-willed teenagerI've I've heard of, where the
mum said, You will never beallowed to get a nose piercing,
and the daughter pierced hernose with a needle and an ice
cube.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
And said, You can't make me doanything, and you can't force me
to do anything.
And so this is part of thetraining that I give parents of
(55:38):
just don't give ultimatums.
Ultimatums for a human beingnever works well for anybody.
Doesn't matter who you are, butespecially for a child, the
child is going to choose theother thing.
It never works out well.
Even if the kid says to you,okay, I'll say sorry, they're
going to do something else laterbecause the problem hasn't been
solved.
So it's not like say, yeah,sure, you can get a nose
(56:00):
piercing.
It's just don't give theultimatum.
Okay, because then they want todefy it.
Yes, if you've got a strong oldkid, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent your strongold kid will defy it.
If you've got an obedient kidand you've given an ultimatum,
you obviously don't give a lotof ultimatums to an easy-going
kid, but if you do, then theeasy-going kid carries anxiety
(56:20):
within them.
SPEAKER_04 (56:21):
And uh when we're talking about a toddler, like, I
don't know, less than two yearsold, what kind of parenting can
we do?
SPEAKER_02 (56:28):
Okay, less than two years old, guys.
Basically, your kid is a cowboyscientist.
Like, I'm talking about theyhave zero clue, but they act
like they have all the clues.
Um, they're there for curiosity,for experimenting, for
experiencing.
Your job as the parent is toguide, guide, guide.
(56:48):
Childproof your home, say lessmore often, uh, say no less
often, and just essentiallyunderstand that this kid is
egocentric.
They think the world revolvesaround them.
They don't understand that youknow that there are other things
happening in the world, and youjust have to wait until that
development happens.
SPEAKER_04 (57:06):
SubhanAllah, subhanAllah.
Um, if somebody wants to workwith you, uh, where can they
find you?
How do you work with people?
SPEAKER_02 (57:14):
Yes, I work with clients one-on-one for couples
um relationship coaching as wellas parenting coaching.
You can find me on socials atcoachmaceeq.
I'm also um found you can emailme.
I wonder if you could put theemail in the description.
Yes, I can.
And uh you work with clients uhall over the world, right?
(57:35):
I do.
I work with clients all over theworld, um, and I offer workshops
as well as one-to-one umcoaching.
SPEAKER_04 (57:42):
Mashallah.
Mashallah.
I'm really, really happy we gotto have this uh conversation.
Like I said, we've beenfollowing you for the longest
time.
We learned a lot even beforehaving children.
We don't have children yet, butuh we look forward to learning
more from you and uh thank youso much for your time, for your
knowledge.
And uh thank you so much, ourdear listeners.
You heard even if you're stillsingle, there is work to be
(58:03):
done.
Um, don't think that parenthoodis something to discuss and talk
about later when we havechildren.
There's a lot of things to bedone right now.
And uh hope you enjoyed theinterview.
We'll see inshallah in the nextepisode.
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_02 (58:16):
Thank you, as salamu alaikum.
Assalamu alaikum.
I'm Hiba.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
And I'm Zayd.
SPEAKER_04 (00:03):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Assalamu alaikum, everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofDiary of the Matchmaker.
I'm Zayd, and on the other micis my wife and co-host Hiba.
SPEAKER_04 (00:25):
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
So today we're honored to have a guest, uh,
Miss Mesa Fahor, who is alicensed parenting coach with a
certification in behavioralcognitive therapy.
She is also a mother of fourwith over 20 years of experience
helping families navigate theoften messy but beautiful
reality of raising children.
Mesa combines research-backedtools with practical, real life
(00:50):
strategies that actually work,especially for strong-willed
children.
Through her workshops, courses,and popular online presence, she
has transformed the lives ofthousands of parents.
We have also been uh people thathave been following and learning
a lot from her Instagramchannel.
Uh, Mesa believes that parentingisn't just about perfection, but
(01:12):
it's about presence, repair, andraising emotionally safe humans.
Uh, so thank you for coming onto the podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
Thank you.
Assalamu alaikum, everyone, andhello to you, Hiba and Zaid.
SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
Alaikum salam.
I can't believe we'reinterviewing you.
You we've been following you forthe longest time.
Amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
I'm so happy to be here on different time zones.
SPEAKER_04 (01:31):
Yeah, subhanAllah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:33):
And for you, uh, our dear listeners, before you tune
out and say think, I'm stillsingle, I have nothing to do
with parenting.
Wait, wait, and you will see.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
So you had an interesting aha moment as a
parent that came about 10 yearsago.
You were frustrated with yourchildren, you were raising your
voice, you were telling them,you know, why don't you listen
to me?
And your 10-year-old at thetime, who happens to be a
strong-willed child, looked atyou straight in the eyes and
said, You always say I don'tlisten, but you're not listening
either.
(02:02):
So you stopped and you said,What?
And he said, You talk a lot, butyou don't hear me.
And it hit you hard because hewas right.
You were so focused on teachingthat you weren't really hearing
him.
And that was a moment thatchanged how you parent because
you realize connection has tocome before correction.
And you started listening moreand lecturing less, and then
everything shifted between youand your child.
(02:25):
Anything else you can shareabout that moment that uh
transformed your journey as aparent?
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
Yeah, so I I definitely remember that moment.
It was about 12 years ago now.
So that particular child is now20.
So him and I can definitelyhave, you know, a deeper
conversation about that now thathe's an adult.
But when I look back at, youknow, 20-year-old Mesa, you
know, first becoming a mum andeven, you know, looking for
(02:51):
marriage and getting into sortof that um role of becoming a
wife and a mum, I don't think Iwas equipped.
I don't think that I was umquizzed enough or taught enough.
Um, we need licenses to get acar, we need, you know,
certification to do any role inthe world.
But when it comes to marriage,when it comes to becoming a
(03:11):
parent, we're kind of like tryyour best and here you go.
And I believe that the thingthat came out from that moment
now, when I reflect back, is Ijust didn't know how to be
confident within myself.
And so what ended up happeningis a lot of control into trying
to control these little humansaround me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
That's that's interesting you brought that up
because it ties into somethingthat we are big proponents of,
and that's a hot topic, which ispremarital training, preparing
people to get ready formarriage.
But you're also talking aboutlike pre-parenting training,
essentially, and and teachingpeople the basic tools for
parenting, which segues into myfirst question, which is do you
(03:54):
feel that there's not enough ofthose courses out there
available for parents or for youknow newlyweds that are looking
to become parents, or peoplejust thinking the same way that
you kind of thought aboutparenting, which is it'll just
come over time?
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Yeah, I would I would go as far as to say um
that it should be compulsory forall people going into a
relationship, deciding to getmarried.
Let's put having children aside,but just entering a full-time
relationship, looking formarriage, especially in our
culture and our religion, thatyou must learn about your inner
child, you must learn aboutattachment theory, you must
(04:31):
learn about the ego.
I think these three topics mustbe compulsory for man and woman,
because it's these three thatform the foundation of why we
are the way we are, why somepeople, generally men, avoid
hard topics, and why somepeople, generally women, tend to
nag about wanting something doneor want to talk about something.
(04:53):
And so we fall into thissocietal norm of calling the
man, oh, he's just emotionless,and calling the woman, oh, she's
a complainer or a nag.
And so we put these two labelsand that's it, we're done.
But I'm proposing that we godeeper than that.
Why?
Why is the man or that personthat is avoiding, why are they
avoiding?
And why is this person who'sanxious, who's nagging, acting
(05:15):
that way?
And it almost always stems fromyour childhood.
And this is why it's soimportant for you to learn about
who you are so that you don'tcontinue the cycle into your
marriage because you willcontinue it.
It's the only thing that youknow how.
And something that I learnedvery early on is they say a
familiar hell is better than anunfamiliar heaven, meaning that
(05:39):
when our nervous system comesacross something that's a new,
we don't want that.
We want to continue doing ourpatterns that we've always done
because this is what we findsafe.
SPEAKER_04 (05:49):
Okay, so you're saying that our childhood
experiences, we bring them upwith us and like raising our
children.
So, in your experience, like,can you give examples, I don't
know, of uh a trauma that waslingering in a parent's life and
he or she brought it with likewith them in the raising of the
children?
SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Oh, where do I start?
I mean, every single thing isbased on that.
Um, I have coached thousands,but I'll start first closer to
home myself.
So essentially I grew up as aobedient, good girl, followed
the rules, didn't really rufflea lot of feathers.
(06:30):
Um, and then I had a child whoquestioned everything, who found
a loophole in every single rule,who would call me from school
and say, But mum, the schoolhandbook says you, you know, you
can get your phone taken off youif they see the phone, but my
phone's in my pocket and nobodycan actually see it.
(06:51):
And I was like, why are you likethis?
Just don't use the phone.
And so what was happening is Iwas projecting my just stick to
the rules and absolutelyignoring this child's reality.
And so I'll jump a little bithere, and this is where a lot of
people misunderstand me andthink that I'm teaching them to
(07:12):
say, Oh, sweetheart, that mustbe so hard for you.
No, I do not swing to that, butwhat I do, and I've practiced
this for two decades now, is Idon't bring myself, my problems,
into this particular problemthat my child is dealing with.
And so it's this differentiationbetween me as a person and what
I went through as a child, andnow there is a different human
(07:35):
that Allah has blessed me with,and they are their own human.
And for some reason, Allah hasmade this particular child just
see loopholes, guys, in everyrule.
He says rules like guidelines.
He's like, really?
They said five o'clock, 5.30 isfine.
Whereas I'm like, five o'clockmeans 4.55 kind of person.
And no one is right, no one iswrong, there's just a healthy or
(07:57):
unhealthy way.
And so these are how parentsstart to struggle.
But I'm gonna go one step moreand suggest that it's not just
parenting, it's literally at thestart of a relationship.
You see, before any parent talksto me about parenting, I'm like,
let's talk about therelationship first.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
It kind of reminds me of what we talk about in our
workshops.
So we talk a lot aboutcompatibility assessment, how to
assess compatibility.
And what people sometimes failto realize is that it begins
with you first, not the otherperson.
And parenting, based on whatyou're saying, feels like the
same way.
It doesn't begin with the child,it begins with you.
It begins with understanding whoyou are, what triggers you, what
(08:36):
doesn't trigger you, yourexpectations, and then you can
begin that journey, right?
So, going along that line, whatwould be some of the first
questions to ask a single personor a single person should be
asking a potential spouse aboutkids before marriage?
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
So I think um just quickly reminding those that are
listening today, um, trigger,this word trigger comes up a lot
now.
It's one of those hot topics.
And I just want to remind everyhuman out there that's listening
to this that your child or yourpartner didn't create that
trigger.
You know, the trigger wasalready there.
So I want I want to use a bit ofan analogy.
(09:14):
Just imagine I have a bruisehere underneath my jacket, you
guys can't see it, and say Hibawalked past and accidentally
fell on me or pushed my arm, andI'm gonna say, ouch, she's not
gonna know I've got the bruise,but I'm going to be hurt from
it.
That is exactly what happens inall relationships.
There is a trigger there, forexample, mess, noise, um, you
(09:37):
know, answering back.
I've got parents who aretriggered by just their child
saying no, saying the word no.
I've got parents that literallyjust lose their minds because
they can't handle hearing no.
And what does that tell me?
That tells me that there are avariety of reasons that that
could be.
But the most common one is thatthey were not given flexibility
(10:00):
in their childhood, and theywere, you know, brought up in
quite a strict regimentedhousehold.
And so here they are now havingthis child say no to them again,
very strictly regimented.
And so the parent just, youknow, closes up.
That's a trigger.
So you don't want to go into arelationship becoming a
psychologist and being like,tell me about your triggers.
(10:21):
I wouldn't recommend that.
But I think what's superimportant is to understand and
learn about your futureprospects love language.
You really want to understandum, you know, what really kind
of um made them happy when theywere young.
I love to hear about adultstelling me about what brought
(10:41):
them joy as a child.
And a lot of adults strugglewith this.
And when I push parents a littlebit more, a little bit more, and
they'll be like, yeah, I reallyenjoyed colouring in, you know,
on a Saturday morning, or Ienjoyed riding my bike.
And so get to know your futurepartner's joys as a little kid.
Get to know what they founddifficult as a kid.
(11:02):
Um, get to know about theirvalue system.
There is so um many quizzes outthere, you can do it together or
separately.
Knowing your values isunderstanding your flavor, your
style of personality.
So we all as humans valuehonesty, for example.
I mean, there's not many peoplethat will say, no, I don't mind
someone that lies to me.
(11:23):
I don't think we'll find manypeople that say that.
But for some people, honestycomes really high up on their
priority list.
And so they will take it veryoffensively if you, you know,
don't tell the full storystraight off the bat.
Um, so value system, what theyloved, what they enjoyed as a
kid, um, their love language.
I love to know about um people'slove languages.
SPEAKER_04 (11:46):
Okay, well, is it like a single Muslim right now
listening is thinking like, allI care about right now is just
getting married, findingsomeone, it's already hard
enough.
Do I really have to think aboutparenting?
So, how actually important isparenting compatibility?
Like, can two people who havecompletely different parenting
(12:07):
philosophies actually getmarried and have children?
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
The short answer is yes, because children only need
one emotionally stable adult orcaregiver to become emotionally
stable themselves.
SubhanAllah.
So the ideal situation obviouslyis two parents.
I worked once with a parent, um,a young gentleman who was raised
(12:32):
by two parents who wereunstable, but he had an amazing
taekwondo coach that was withhim for 13 plus years, and this
particular coach guided him andhe credits that.
So humans need at least oneadult that believes in them,
that trusts them, that givesthem.
But for the sake of justsimplicity for this podcast, my
answer to you is you know, twopeople getting married with
(12:57):
opposite parenting styles doesnot mean the end of a
relationship.
However, it does make it tricky.
If you have two people on theopposite ends of the spectrum,
we've got a permissive and we'vegot a strict, then you're going
to find clashes.
Of course you are.
It's like even in a workplaceenvironment, in any
relationship.
So if you're about to getmarried or you're single and
(13:19):
you've met somebody who seems tobe super strict on the
discipline punishment side, justprepare yourself that there's
going to be differences andclashes.
And it's not going to be a walkin the park.
It will require you to help yourpartner either, you know, become
less stressed about thepunishments itself.
SPEAKER_04 (13:39):
Okay.
So what are the parenting stylesout there?
We you said permissive, strict,and what else?
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Yeah, so there's permissive.
Um, the full term for strict isum authoritarian.
And then there is um let's sayum laissez faire, like that kind
of um, you know, almost on thesame path hierarchy as a child.
And then there's something thatI call emotionally intelligent
parenting.
(14:07):
So it's this fourth um categorythat I really strive for parents
to aim for.
Um, Dr.
Shafali calls it consciousparenting.
There's all these words for it.
Gentle parenting also has got anegative connotation with it,
because unfortunately, peoplethink gentle means weak.
However, this particular styleof parenting is about you being
(14:30):
the mature adult and you beingpresent in the moment.
So this requires a skill forwhen your child is having a
tantrum because they want theblue cup, not the red cup.
It requires a skill for theadult to remain an adult.
And I know you you both canthink of a situation where I can
think of tennis players who'velost it.
(14:50):
I can think of adults in roadrage, right?
So I'm not talking aboutparenting only.
Adults require practice to holdtheir emotions, not forget them,
not dismiss them, but control.
And this is a skill set, guys,that I don't think we're taught
enough about.
Control your emotion, but notmeaning yes, walk all over me.
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
Okay.
I'm glad you mentionedmeltdowns.
Uh I actually work at achildcare center, so I work with
infants, toddlers, andpreschoolers.
It's a Montessori school.
So I'm a CASA trained teacher,so I see a lot of what you're
talking about, but I love the Ilove to talk a little bit about
meltdowns.
And so a child, for example,wanted the blue cup, but the
child got the red cup, and theyare just losing it.
(15:36):
What as an educator or parent umshould they be doing in that
moment?
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Yeah, I love this question because it actually
allows me to talk more aboutthinking of the situation like
you've got options.
Okay.
And so it requires you as theadult to decide which option am
I going to take.
So we're going to take yourexample.
Can you get the red cup?
(16:04):
Is it possible you've given theblue cup, but there is a red cup
and it's like a meter away.
Is it gonna break the bank toget the red cup?
If you can, go get the red cupand hand it to the child with
joy.
Okay, mate, no worries, here yougo.
In full Aussie um dialect there,and give them the red cup.
Let's say you can't give the redcup for whatever reason.
(16:25):
It's in the dishwasher, there isno red cup, somebody else has
got the red cup, red cup is notavailable.
So then you are required now tomake a secondary decision.
What can you do to help thechild through this moment?
For us as adults, we're like,are you kidding me?
It's just a red cup.
Because we have got a maturebrain, inshallah, and we know
that this is a very smallproblem compared to what we know
(16:47):
in life experience.
But for your three,four-year-old Montessori kids'
aid, that is the end of theworld for them because they
don't have life experience.
So our role is to kind of go,hey, I'm really sorry that you
can't have the red cup, but Iwould love, and here is where I
would insert something to helpthem through it.
But I would love to sit with youand I'll drink out of the blue
(17:07):
cup too, and you drink out of ablue cup.
Or I would love for you to waitfive minutes and I can get you
the red cup.
Or, um, you know, do you want toget the green cup?
Do you want to pour your ownjuice in the cup?
We want to help the childthrough that moment, not because
we're spoiling them, but becauseit's a fundamental aspect of
human nature to help somebodythrough a hard time.
(17:28):
If I've entered a nurse's officeto get my blood taken for a
blood test, and I'm looking alittle bit uneasy.
Generally speaking, the nurseisn't going to say, now, Mesa,
come on, you're 42 years old,just look at the needle, look at
the blood coming out.
They don't do that.
What do nurses do?
They're like, Oh, look at thepainting.
(17:49):
How was your day?
Oh, it's okay.
And I'm a grown adult.
But for some reason, when itcomes to children, we're kind of
like, Yella, come on, it's justa blue cup, it's not a big deal.
And so, Zaid, like in summary,what do I do in this situation?
I ask parents to look at theoptions they have in front of
them and retain that maturity.
SPEAKER_04 (18:10):
Yeah, just a question, honestly.
It might be a little bit of aharsh question.
So in my life, I came across alot of kids who were ruined
because of the way they werebrought up.
And I think to myself, as harshas it might sound, some people
shouldn't have children.
Do you come across situationslike this?
Like children who whose liveswere ruined and who grew up to
(18:32):
be like, I don't know how to saybad adults, like in a more
polite way.
Do you come across thesesituations?
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Absolutely.
I believe that we mentionedearlier, I believe you have to
pass certain tests to get alicense.
I really do believe that withparenting.
I believe that some people justdon't have enough maturity to
become parents, and I witnessedthat.
Unfortunately, that childbecomes an adult, and then it
becomes that adult'sresponsibility to go to therapy,
(19:02):
to not continue the cycles.
It's very hard work.
And, you know, this is a strongreminder also for those
listening that entitlementdoesn't just happen overnight.
You don't just wake up andbecome a ruined child.
Okay, I'm gonna go into somereally deep things here, but no
child wakes up and is suddenlyspoiled.
No child wakes up and suddenlydecides they don't want to be
(19:24):
here anymore.
You know, these really deepthings, no one wakes up and
says, I don't, I want to, youknow, treat my parents badly, I
don't want to stay in thereligion, I want to hurt my
brother.
I all of these really bigtopics, no child wakes up just
suddenly one day and does that.
There is a build-up, guys.
It is a build-up.
There is evidence, there arehints, no human gives no hint.
(19:49):
Everybody gives a hint.
And eventually, after X amountof hints, the child reacts.
Now, obviously, the younger thechild, the faster the reaction,
hence why they'll, you know,swipe the cup away quickly.
But your 15-year-old who islocking themselves in the room
because they don't want to comeout, that didn't happen
overnight.
You have to check in on what'sgoing on for this kid.
Entitlement only happens, aspoilt kid only happens when you
(20:14):
do not teach a child to handlefrustrating situations.
That's the only way entitlementhappens.
But not just once.
So I've got a lot of parentsthat are like, oh my God, I did
this on Saturday.
No, the key here is consistency,sorry, is intensity and
frequency.
So how often are you saving thechild?
(20:35):
How often are you doing it?
Are you doing it every time?
Oh, my eight, I've got a17-year-old daughter.
She doesn't get invited tosomebody's birthday party, for
example.
Do I every single time say toher, you know what?
Don't worry about them.
It wasn't even that gonna bethat good anyway.
You know, what am I doing tohelp her through that really
frustrating moment?
She gets a a D on her essay.
(20:56):
What am I doing?
Am I always telling her, no,you're the best, you're the
smartest?
That's how we raise entitledchildren.
It doesn't just happenovernight.
And so when your child is goingthrough a tough moment, it's a
fine balance between resilienceand helping them.
And so, same goes for us, for usadults.
So I know that, you know, Idon't want to just focus on
(21:17):
parenting.
For those single, you know,single people out there or
entering a relationship of somesort.
I want to ask you, how do youdeal with hardships?
What do you do when you getrejected?
Because that is most likely howyou're going to handle it with
your kid.
SPEAKER_04 (21:33):
Beautiful, beautiful.
So, from that question, thisreminds me of another question
that was on the list ofquestions.
What are some red flags that aperson can see in a prospective
match in terms of just theconversations or like the way
they react to anything that cantell them a lot about their
future parenting style?
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Yeah, this question made me smile a bit because I
ended up writing and listingdown basically everything I
heard in the 80s.
Um I don't know how old you guysare, but I was like, wow, our
parents really did try theirbest.
Um, God bless them.
But things like uh children areto be seen, not heard, red flag.
Um things like uh my parents hitme and I turned out fine.
(22:19):
Red flag.
Um, I'll never let my child cry.
Red flag.
Um, you know, mothers shouldinsert rule, stay at home with
the child, or fathers shouldinsert rule.
All of these are red flagsbecause they show rigidity.
(22:40):
So what we want in a partnershipis we don't want any shoulds,
okay, other than health, safety,and legality.
Of course, these arenon-negotiables, these are
common sense.
Whoever's listening to this,please use your common sense
here.
But everything else comes underflexibility, comes under the
idea of um reacting and likeunderstanding the life that is
(23:02):
going to happen isn't going tobe straightforward.
And yes, sometimes children doneed to sit still and listen,
but to put it as a general rule,that's just unfair.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
Yeah, so that brings me to another point, which is um
schooling.
That's usually a hot topic.
You know, what you want to knowas you're speaking to a
potential spouse their approach.
And usually it's a very binaryconversation, whether it's
whether it's homeschooling orpublic or private school.
So, how should a couple navigatethis conversation before
(23:36):
marriage?
And is there more to it thatthey're missing?
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
This is a really good question because I reflect
on my own experiences.
So my children have been to 14different schools.
I think I have covered a lot oflife journey in this, and I also
have worked with so many kidsand parents from different kinds
of walks of life, and I can saythis very rarely does a child
(24:01):
need to change schools.
Very rarely.
If a child is having a problemat a school, I would say it
would be one out of 100 parentsthat needs to change the school.
Because yes, sometimes the childneeds a new start.
I agree with that.
But when you're sitting withyour partner, or if you want to
think about this to yourself, ifyou're not married yet, you want
(24:22):
to really ask yourself, not likewhere will the child study, but
what am I hoping?
What kind of learner do I wantmy child to become?
What am I hoping that they'regoing to, how am I hoping that
they're going to learn?
What do I want to drive in them?
And so for me, the mostimportant part is environment.
(24:42):
So friendship plays the biggestrole in a child's life.
Research has shown thatenvironment plays the biggest
role.
So you really want to be mindfulof the environment you're going
into and the idea that schoolsand teachers can only do so
much.
I was a teacher for many years,and I'm just here to remind
people that teachers are human.
We have 25 odds or so students.
(25:04):
Um, it's a tough job, it'sunderpaid and undervalued, and
teachers can only get a child toa certain spot, and then it's
the parent that plays thebiggest role of all.
Um, so the conversation is moreabout what do I want my child,
you know, to become, who do Iwant them to become more than
grades itself.
SPEAKER_04 (25:26):
Yeah.
So is there a third optionbesides homeschooling or private
public school?
SPEAKER_02 (25:32):
I mean, no.
I think that um there are thereare a few programs that I've
heard that kind of do a bit ofboth.
I know that um here in Dubaiwe've got some programs or you
can go into a school kind ofsetting part-time, but then also
work at home.
Um, essentially look atyourself.
Look at yourself.
(25:53):
Can you handle homeschooling?
Are you that type of person?
How's your scheduling?
How's your organization?
What are the ages of thechildren that you have?
What are you trying to do?
If you're trying to shelter yourchild from topics that you don't
want to deal with, then that's avery, very deep thing that you
will have to work on becauseeventually that kid will grow up
(26:14):
and want to know about thattopic, that stereotype that you
don't want them to know about.
SPEAKER_04 (26:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You you mentioned uh when youwere talking about red flags,
one of the red flags is umstatements like the mother
should always ta-ta-ta, or thefather should always ta-ta-ta.
Um what about like gender roles?
Is there are there like fixedgender roles when it comes to
parenting, or is it more of aflexible matter?
SPEAKER_02 (26:39):
Yeah, so this question has always played on my
mind.
I've got three boys and onegirl, and I always like to think
of the way I parent them isbased on their personality more
than their gender.
So I often get questions like,oh, it's harder raising girls
than boys, isn't it?
And I don't agree with that.
I mean, sometimes by coincidenceit might be, but it's got to do
(27:02):
with character.
Because you can have astrong-willed, determined, break
the rule kind of girl, and youcan have an easy-going, obedient
boy.
And vice versa.
So you want to look at the childyou have in front of you.
What kind of child do you havein front of you?
Do you have somebody that isopen to listening?
Are they going to follow thecrowd?
Are they going to not think forthemselves?
(27:23):
Because even though I touch alot on the strong-willed
child's, um, we can call themchallenges or negatives, the
strong-willed child will neverbow down to peer pressure.
So, hand on heart, I can easilysay when my son, you know, would
go out, he didn't do anythingthat he didn't want to do.
Whereas I've got another child,for example, same gender, they
(27:44):
will do something they don'twant to do to follow.
And so what's important withgender roles is to ask, um, you
know, like, who we who is thischild in front of me?
What do I need to help themwith?
Not just, oh, they're a girl, soI need to teach them modesty.
That topic is for both genders.
SPEAKER_04 (28:03):
Yes, yes, yes.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
What about gender roles when itcomes to the mother and father?
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
Yeah.
So this is this is somethingthat I mean, we're evolving,
right?
We're we're starting to, youknow, enter different um seasons
in our life.
And I don't really want to saythat, oh, everything should be
just flexible.
Again, I always come back downto what's working, what's not
(28:30):
working for you, more than youare the mum, therefore, right?
Or you are the dad, therefore.
We really want to maintain thelevel of reality.
So if it works that the mum orthe woman stays at home with the
child because it works, then youcan do that.
But for some women, so manywomen I work with, they are a
(28:52):
better mother when they areworking, right?
They are a better mother whenthey have gone out into the into
their career and come home.
Now that might put some stresson the family with childcare,
with you know, being far fromthe from the child.
But then I would also delvedeeper with the mother and the
father and ask them some morequestions.
What are you running away withor running away from?
(29:14):
Why do you feel like this child,you know, really drags you down
or you can't handle yourtwo-year-old's tantrums?
What's going on there?
SPEAKER_04 (29:22):
This reminds me of my sister.
I hope she's not listening.
She she has a beautiful boy andgirl, and um, she works so much,
um, like sometimes 10 hours aday or something.
And when she gets home, she'stired, she's exhausted,
understandably.
And she has a very strong-willeddaughter who like who wants
attention and who wants to beloud, and but she doesn't have
(29:45):
energy for her.
And then we're noticing likeshe's developing some behavioral
issues that were not dealt with.
I hope she doesn't take them onlike to her adulthood or
something.
SPEAKER_02 (29:55):
So, I mean, this is when I would sit with the adult
and we would do a full Look atyour schedule, not yours, but at
the at the person's schedule.
And really, you know, I workwith a lot of men about this as
well.
I know this is very genderstereotype, but I often work
with men and and women and Isay, okay, so that half an hour
of you taking your time andhaving a dinner alone and then
(30:18):
coming home.
Honestly, I've done, I've madethem time it, right, guys.
Bear with me so I explain this.
I said, you come home at seveno'clock and you're buggered,
you're tired, you can't bedealing with anything.
And for one hour, it's thisfighting happening between you
and the kid, and you can't bebothered and you're tired and
you're hungry and you're allthis stuff.
So that's one hour minimum.
If you've got a strongwilledkid, they can go for two.
(30:41):
Now, you finish at seven at workand you stop by the local cafe,
or you go to the gym, or youcall your friend from the
driveway, and you take half anhour or one hour to do whatever
you need to do, and you calmdown, you get your cortisol
down, right?
You get your blood sugars right,you take off your shoes, your
heels, you're helping yourselfregulate.
(31:02):
Now, when you come home, true,you don't have a long time, but
you've walked in more regulated.
So now that two hours that youjust wasted, well, guess what?
You've got another hour now todo your thing.
And the harsh reality is this,and I can't sugarcoat it any
more than this, but your kid didnot ask to be born.
They didn't ask to be born.
(31:23):
They don't know.
They don't know that you've hada long day.
They're just like, yay, thegreatest person in the world has
walked through the door.
So I'm going to give them somuch stress because I want them
to give me so much attention.
And by the way, fun fact, adultsdo it too.
Well, yeah, we do it to ourpartners all the time.
We do not say when we'restressed, oh hello, dear
partner, I'm so glad you'rehome.
(31:45):
I'm feeling really undervaluedat the moment.
So can you please give me somespace?
No, we're like, you're home now?
Oh.
We do that.
And then and then the and thenthe partner's not gonna go, wow,
it sounds like you're reallystressed.
No, the partner's gonna go, doyou know what kind of day I've
had?
And this is what I come in hometo?
(32:06):
I'm not gonna come home anymore.
And so on.
And so all that I'm saying topeople listening to this is that
adults are little childreninside adult bodies.
We do the same thing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
There's some there's some laughing here.
Yeah, because I just can't likethink of an incident or two
where we had similar situations.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
I can also, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:31):
Yeah, for example, guys, when they're hungry, they
can't be bothered to do anythingor talk about anything.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
Nope.
So I think a legitimate fearthat comes to many single
Muslims' minds is especiallyMuslims living in the West, is
keeping their Islamic identityalive while raising children in
a secular environment.
And especially in a time wherethey're trying to separate
between gender and sex and andthere's all this kind of
(33:01):
confusion happening.
And I don't know what it's muchlike in Australia or in Dubai,
but do you think singles needwhat like what do you think
singles need to prepare for inthis unique challenge before
they marry?
SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
Yeah, fear less, concentrate on your home life.
I can't say this enough, and Idon't say it to be this kind of
liberal, you know, let's justblend in, you know, to the
society.
I say this from a developmentpoint of view, I say it from a
psychological point of view.
If we just concentrated more onour home life, things would be
so much better.
(33:33):
So let's take, for example, youknow, talking to our children
about um different gendersthat's coming up and this topic
that might come up in lots ofschools.
I mean, in Dubai we're a littlebit more sheltered, but it's
there wherever you are in theworld, especially in the Western
world.
I completely appreciate that.
The idea isn't to bombard achild with information, it's not
(33:54):
to um, you know, get yourselfriled up and stressed out about
it.
The idea behind any difficultconversation you're gonna have,
and you will have many with yourpartner, with your children, you
know, you will have manydifficult conversations.
The idea is that you have to beconfident in yourself first.
So before I go in and have achat with my kid about this hard
(34:17):
topic, I'm not gonna go in thereand be like, oh, look, I don't
know, but I really think thatthis is the right way.
Do you know what Allah says?
Like, you're not gonna go inthere like that.
You're gonna prepare yourselfand ask yourself, what is my
point?
What at what point am I tryingto put across?
And how much can I control?
How much can I control as theparent in this life?
(34:39):
Because you can't control yourfriend's kid's phone device
usage.
Can't do that.
But what you can control is howyour kid responds when their
friends, you know, put upsomething on the device.
And even then, you still can'tcontrol that because children
have free will, and for whateverreason, usually I call it
immaturity, some kids will go,yes, mom, sure, I will say no,
(35:03):
and then in the moment they sayyes, right?
But then what are you gonna doabout it?
So I think Zayd, what's superimportant here for us as
parents, as Muslim parents, youknow, living in the West, is
that we have to ask ourselves,how much are we driving our
parenting from fear?
And how much are we driving ourparenting from confidence?
(35:24):
And there is a very bigdifference between the two.
SPEAKER_04 (35:27):
Honestly, like listening to like the
responsibilities of appearanceand how to control you.
We're talking about likecontrolling your emotions,
sounds like a very difficultjob.
And like controlling youremotions day after day after
day, isn't it gonna like resultin like suppressed emotions and
suddenly you're just gonna blow,blow up in your child or in your
(35:49):
coworker or something?
SPEAKER_02 (35:50):
Yeah, is it as difficult as it sounds?
Oh no, I've then I need to do abetter job at explaining it,
Hiba, because that what you'redescribing is called passive
patience.
The really big differencebetween control of emotions and
passive patience.
Passive patience is when you putup with something.
Okay, he's yelled at me once andtwice, didn't want the blue cup
(36:11):
today, doesn't want the greencup then, sister hit the
brother, did it, did it, right?
You're gonna blow up.
If you don't blow up, I'll bereally worried because humans
blow up.
That is not what I teach.
Emotional regulation andemotional intelligence is the
ability to control your emotion,but it does not mean that we're
happy.
(36:31):
So when my kid wants the bluecup, I'm allowed to be
frustrated.
So I'm not going, you can't havethe blue cup.
By the way, kids will look atyou like you're crazy if you do
that, right?
Instead, I I can show, I caneven say, hey, I'm really
frustrated.
I offered you the blue cup andyou want the green cup.
The green cup's in thedishwasher.
Again, age appropriate.
(36:52):
Obviously, you don't say this toa one-year-old.
However, I want to cast yourmind to something else that
might help you, Hiber.
Would we say the same thing to aPT who every day for the last
one year has gone and donepull-ups?
You know, those really hardthings to do.
When you do pull-ups for oneyear, do your muscles bust open
(37:14):
and you suddenly can't do anymore pull-ups?
Do the pull-ups get easier?
Yeah.
That is exactly the same asbrain training.
When you learn to control youremotions in an emotionally
intelligent way, and there is away, there are five steps to it,
then by the time you've done itenough times, you can not blow
(37:38):
up as much anymore.
So for myself, a decade or sointo it, I now have a much
longer threshold for me to quoteunquote lose it.
I would need to have a reallylike there has to be a lot of
things that that's gone on forme to lose it.
And if I am losing it veryquickly, then I need to touch on
(37:59):
myself physiologically.
So asking myself, have I hadwater, have I had sleep, have I
eaten, and have I had any kindof connection, any love?
They're the four things thathumans need.
Other than that, it would take alot for my child to push those
buttons.
SPEAKER_04 (38:16):
Seems like a crucial skill every parent should have,
honestly.
SPEAKER_02 (38:19):
Absolutely.
Emotional intelligence is thething that needs to be
compulsory before you become, Imean, before even parenting, we
need to be practicing this thingfrom a very young age, but they
just don't teach it in schools.
I mean, now they're getting alot better, don't get me wrong.
Um, but parents can do this withchildren at home.
(38:39):
Um, just really quickly, thefirst way you do it is by
modeling it.
The second way you do it is bynaming it, so labeling it to a
child.
Oh, you're feeling frustratedright now.
The third way you do it is byteaching the kid what to do with
that frustration.
We don't want to teach them topunch, punch a hole in the wall,
but we want to teach them totake deep breaths.
And the fourth way to do it isto repeat, repeat, show them
(39:02):
examples.
Oh, look, that person was angryand they took a deep breath, and
now look at what happened.
And that's how we teach childrenemotional intelligence.
SPEAKER_04 (39:12):
Wow, you know, reflecting on the way we were
brought up, and like you said,God bless our parents, they did
the best they could.
They didn't have access to anyof this information.
And like, I'm glad that weturned out okay.
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Did we?
We have the highest rates oflike depression and anxiety in
like the history of the world.
SPEAKER_03 (39:32):
I guess, I guess, but we didn't turn out to be
murderers or something.
So at least that's that's that'strue.
SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
But but going back to that point, it just feels
like given that we're living inthe digital age, there's just an
inundation of content out there,you know, TikTok reels about
gentle parenting, then you gotthe Montessori reels, and
everybody is giving endlessadvice about how what approach
to take.
And so it almost feels likethere's these unrealistic
expectations about parenting.
(40:01):
Um, so how do you filter throughthat and and try to understand
what is right and what's wrongwhen it comes to parenting?
Or is there no right and wrong?
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
Yeah, I mean, I always like to think of
parenting as healthy orunhealthy.
There isn't really right orwrong.
Again, the common sense beingthat emotional, you know, mental
and physical abuse is a definitestraight into the wrong
category.
But when we look at parentingmethods, there is no wrong or
right.
It's just what do you want toachieve as a parent?
(40:32):
So for me, very high up on mylist is I wanted to become
somebody that my children canlook up to and copy from.
Right?
This is another kind of littleaha moment that I had, you know,
when I was thinking about mydaughter.
So about 15 years ago, I wassitting down and I thought, what
would I like my daughter to dowhen she's mad?
(40:55):
Then I need to do that because Ican't be like, oh, I really wish
for my daughter to grow up to bethis young lady who takes 10
deep breaths and you knowdoesn't let anyone walk all over
her and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
And then I wasn't doing that.
So we really need to askourselves the question of, am I
modeling it?
So back to social media.
I have a firm belief thatoverintellectualization is a
(41:18):
thing.
I don't know if it's a thing, Ihaven't done thesis work on it,
but it has to be a thing becausedo you know how many self-help
books people own?
And so what I suggest andrecommend to parents is that you
can't go past um good enoughparenting.
So, what does that mean?
That means that we want to aimto live in the present moment
(41:39):
and not just keep trying tounderstand why.
Like, why am I like this?
Why did my parent do that?
Why did my dad do that?
And I push and I challengeparents that work with me to
start to think outside of thebox of why and more about okay,
what can I do?
What can I be?
(42:01):
How can I react from this orchange from this?
And once we start posing thesedifferent questions, we stop
putting ourselves as the centertopic and we start to think
about the child in front of usor like the problem that we
have.
So if me and my partner arealways arguing about who is
going to do the dishes, right?
Let's just take that reallysimple example, and you're
(42:21):
always tired of reminding himand he's tired of always being
told, just a simplestereotypical example.
Then rather than, oh, why doesthis keep happening?
I encourage um couples to startto think about okay, what do you
want to happen and what are youtrying to achieve here?
And then we can focus on gettingthe logistics out.
Because nine times out of tenwith couples, you're both saying
(42:43):
the same thing in a differentway.
SPEAKER_04 (42:46):
Um, unrelated question.
Do you think children arecompletely formed by their
environment, whether that'sparents, uh, school, friends,
friends, or is there like a partthat they are born with, like a
nature that they have?
SPEAKER_02 (43:02):
Absolutely.
Children are born with a nature.
Children are born, there are 400different psychological traits
that can be chosen by Allah tocreate your child's personality.
And we don't know what the drawis because I've met two very,
very loud parents who've got ashy child.
I've met two very quiet parentswho've got a loud child.
(43:24):
I've met everything, all thecombinations you can think of.
I've met children that are areplica of their father,
children that are a replica oftheir grandfather.
It doesn't matter about, youknow, what is the right
combination.
What we need to start off withis understanding the genetic
part of it, which is kind ofpotluck.
Yani subhanAllah, we don't know,right?
(43:45):
And then from there on, andafter probably the age of two,
because before two, the child ispretty much like the baby is
pretty much convinced onconnection only, right?
But after two, what happens isyou have to start to parent the
child in front of you, not thechild you wish you had.
(44:06):
So I'll give you an example.
If after two, you seem to have avelcro toddler, you know, a
toddler that just clings to yourlick.
Even when you get to the playcenter, the kid's like, no, stay
with me.
And you're like, what?
We're at a play center.
Go, be free, have fun.
I wish I was taken to a playcenter.
Then you are not parenting thechild in front of you.
(44:27):
You're parenting what you wishyou had.
The child in front of you isasking you to, hey, slow down,
walk me there.
For some strange reason, theirbrain is like, this is danger.
There's a lot of sight, sounds.
That's what the child in frontof you needs.
Now let's flip it around.
If you have, I call them thestage children that are just
like, see ya, and just like runsinto the play center, doesn't
(44:50):
even look behind them, andyou're like, no, wait, you need
to do no no no like all of thiskind of um careful business,
then you're not parenting thechild in front of you.
You're parenting the child youwish you had, who was somebody
that was like slower and gavesalam nicely and just talked
very um elegantly to theirgrandparents.
That's not the kid you have.
I don't know why that's not thekid you have, but it's just not.
(45:12):
So instead, you need to parentthe kid in front of you, which
might be lower expectations.
You know that this child is notgoing to give salams very slowly
and ask their grandparent howwas your day.
But you might go, hey, you'regonna give salams, you can give
a high five, and then you can goplay.
And so you've brought down yourexpectations.
(45:32):
So um nature definitely plays arole, and so does nurture.
And I think it's a very finebalance, but parents pay way too
much time trying to work outwhat is where and how, and what
did I do that ruined it?
I believe that we just need totake a backseat on that
conversation and just deal withthe reality we have in front of
us today.
(45:53):
Let the child lead, you mean?
I mean lead, but we can't wehave to also remember that when
my vivacious, fiery, spicy childwants to cross the road at the
age of at the age of five,that's a no.
SPEAKER_04 (46:08):
Of course not, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (46:09):
And when my child sees no harm in, you know,
sending photos, you know, onSnapchat as a teenager, that's a
no.
So what we're doing here iswe're going, oh right, this kid
loves to be social, this kidloves to be independent, but
there are rules in place that Iam in charge of.
You see, when you're parenting,you're not relying on when
(46:31):
you're an emotional, intelligentparent, you're not relying on
your kid to pat you on the backand say, Yeah, mom, thank you so
much for that boundary.
You kept me safe.
Oh my goodness, thank you.
No, your kid's gonna say, You'veruined my life, Snapchat is the
best.
And so you're not gonna look forthat instead.
These are all true stories,guys.
(46:52):
Um really truly.
And I'm like, really?
I hate you, mom.
All of that, all of that isgonna come at you, and you have
to be confident enough to knowthat they're not saying I hate
you, they're saying I hate yourrule because I don't agree with
it.
SPEAKER_01 (47:09):
Would you say that a general rule of thumb is
parenting is a thankless jobbecause your parent your kids
aren't gonna come to you andsay, Thank you for this, thank
you for that, but it's justsomething to be aware of, but
it's a rewarding job at the endof the day.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
Yeah, you know, um that yeah, I've got to think
about that one because I'm inthis blessed phase where I've
got these two younger kids andthen the two older kids.
So the thank yous do come.
So anyone listening out there,the thank yous do come and they
are they are just likeexcellent, but I do not rely on
(47:47):
them.
They come as a bonus, they donot come as an expectation.
So I would say um, you know,parenting is a it's a confident
job.
Parenting is a job that it'slike an occupational health and
safety officer job.
I don't know if you have that inyour side of the world, but
they're the person.
Yes, you do?
(48:07):
Okay, great.
So they're the person in theworkplace that not many people
like because they're puttingwitches' hats around the spilt
liquid on the floor and they'rechecking in on people's feelings
and all of that stuff, butthey're so vital to keeping
things safe.
And then you pass a stage whereyou now have to allow the child
(48:28):
to practice how to keepthemselves safe.
I just wonder how our parentsdid it.
They were like, okay, flee, gofor your life.
SPEAKER_03 (48:38):
Yeah, you know, sometimes, like Zaid and I, I'm
just gonna admit it, sometimeswe see parents doing things and
we think to ourselves, whenwe're parents, we're not gonna
do that.
SPEAKER_04 (48:48):
We're gonna make sure we don't do that, whether
it's like giving them tabletsand like unlimit unlimited
screen time.
SPEAKER_01 (48:55):
So let me talk about that.
Let me tell you.
So I have a friend who's uh whohas three girls and a boy, and
he's just beyond overwhelmed.
I think they're all under theage of five or six, and uh, and
but the one thing I alwaysnotice is they all have their
own tablet.
So whenever they go out to eat,he calls it free babysitting.
(49:15):
So they all have a tablet andthey're pre-occupied, and it
just works for him.
And I just think it's easy forme to say as someone who's not a
parent that, oh, I'm not gonnado that, I'm gonna figure it
out.
But at the same time, it's likeI don't know what he's going
through.
And this is probably the onething that works for me.
He doesn't have time to figureout another strategy.
So, what what's that that kindof ties into the topic of screen
(49:37):
time and what you should do?
But anything you can say aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (49:40):
Nothing's a problem until it's a problem.
So when parents come to me andthey're like, hey, Mesa, how's
my screen time with my kidgoing?
And I'm like, is there aproblem?
They're like, no, I'm like, thenI'm good.
If you want to give your kid ahundred hours of screen time, go
for it.
But if every single time, solet's take screen time away for
a second and let's say just somedifferent examples.
(50:01):
If every single day you have tobribe your kid to, I don't know,
go to soccer practice, that's aproblem.
If every, or not every, but mostoften you have to reward, bribe,
threaten your child to eat theirdinner, that's a problem.
If very often you go to arestaurant and the only way that
(50:22):
you can get your kids to calmdown and eat is with a tablet,
then it's generally a problembecause it means that it's
masking something else.
Now, on your friends list, itmust might not be a very top
priority problem.
I'm fine with.
But if you come to see me andyou're like, this is really
bothering me, then I'm here tohelp you with situations like
that.
(50:42):
And so when it comes to screentime, I always say that the
device itself is not the enemy.
It can't be.
Look how wonderful devices are,look what we're doing together
today.
Devices in and of themselves arebrilliant, but the difference
between medicine and poison isthe dosage.
So, what is the kid doing on thedevice and for how long?
(51:04):
Because my daughter Googlemeeting with her friends for two
hours is very different than herplaying Call of Duty for two
hours.
It's a very different, you know,brain um thing that's going on.
So you want to be very preciseabout the thing that we're
talking about.
So screen time, um, I would beasking you if you came to me,
I'd be saying, okay, when is itbeing used?
(51:26):
How's it being used?
I sometimes tell parents, thekid's not in, you know, at
fault.
Change a password, hide theiPad.
You know, sometimes I go to workand I take the TV remote with me
because I know that my little,yeah, absolutely, because I know
that my little child whose brainis this big cannot help
themselves to the temptations,guys.
(51:46):
Think about us as adults.
Can we help it when we'rescrolling?
Sometimes we can't.
So why would I risk thisparticular thing happening?
Now, if I have to every timetake the remote with me to work,
then there's a problem.
And also, am I choosing mybattles?
So this is the beauty withparenting.
We can't just be take the remotewith us to work, and we can't
(52:09):
also be, yeah, just let thechild make their own decisions.
There are so many options in themiddle.
So I once had a parent come tome and say, Oh, Mesa, every time
I'm on the phone, my kidrealizes, and or I'm on a
meeting and they'll come andthey'll get more screen time.
But do you know what I didyesterday?
Oh, I didn't give in.
And I said, Really?
What happened?
She said, Finally, the bankcalled me back.
(52:31):
I was waiting for this reallyimportant call.
And guess what?
I didn't even take the callbecause I stuck to my guns.
And I said, You missed a bankappointment, like so that you
don't give your kid more screentime.
La, in this particularsituation, give the kid the
screen time, take the importantcall, and this is where parents
kind of fluctuate between thisbinary of yes and no.
(52:55):
You've got to look at thesituation in front of you.
For me to do this call at 5 p.m.
on a weekday, you best believethat I've got all the devices
happening in my household.
Because what else am I going todo in a 50-degree country where
kids are on school break and thehumidity is so high that you
can't go outside?
And so this is where alsoparent, you know, parents start
(53:18):
to forget that we don't live inthis world of yes, sure, go
climb a tree.
I know I've gone on a tangent abit, but I hope I answered your
question, Zaid.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (53:28):
What other interesting stories do you have
for us?
SPEAKER_02 (53:31):
Oh, where where do I start?
Tell me some tell me somecategories.
SPEAKER_04 (53:36):
Some categories.
I don't know, a success story,like parents who like hadn't
figured it out and like atransformation happened.
SPEAKER_02 (53:44):
Yeah, okay.
Well, so many.
I had a mum who was adamant thather kid was broken, just
eight-year-old boy, rude,arrogant, um, never listened,
angry, just adamant.
And she worked with me for threesolid months.
Because going back to thatthing, Hiba, where oh, we've
(54:07):
lost saying, going back to thatthing where um you can't just
solve something in the onesitting, like the same thing
with the pull-ups.
Um, so over the three-monthperiod, we worked on her.
So I would ask her to thinkabout how does she react to the
to the child, what are herexpectations.
We literally altered herschedule around to be more
(54:28):
realistic, to be more logistic,and by the third month and
onwards till today, her littleher little boy um is pleasant,
is funny, is creative, isindependent, and she's loving
parenting.
Masha'Allah, in three months.
SPEAKER_04 (54:44):
Yeah, three months.
Looks like we're the ones whohave to get the training, not
the child, like the problem isus, not the children.
The children, I guess, areteaching us in their own way.
SPEAKER_02 (54:56):
They are, they can't help it.
They can't be like, yo, mom, Ifeel really stressed out today.
They just can't do that at theseages that we're talking about.
Instead, they will push theirbrother when they feel jealous
or they will do things, theywon't listen to us for a certain
reason.
Um, I had a lovely Canadian mumonce come to me with probably
(55:17):
the most strong-willed teenagerI've I've heard of, where the
mum said, You will never beallowed to get a nose piercing,
and the daughter pierced hernose with a needle and an ice
cube.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
And said, You can't make me doanything, and you can't force me
to do anything.
And so this is part of thetraining that I give parents of
(55:38):
just don't give ultimatums.
Ultimatums for a human beingnever works well for anybody.
Doesn't matter who you are, butespecially for a child, the
child is going to choose theother thing.
It never works out well.
Even if the kid says to you,okay, I'll say sorry, they're
going to do something else laterbecause the problem hasn't been
solved.
So it's not like say, yeah,sure, you can get a nose
(56:00):
piercing.
It's just don't give theultimatum.
Okay, because then they want todefy it.
Yes, if you've got a strong oldkid, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent your strongold kid will defy it.
If you've got an obedient kidand you've given an ultimatum,
you obviously don't give a lotof ultimatums to an easy-going
kid, but if you do, then theeasy-going kid carries anxiety
(56:20):
within them.
SPEAKER_04 (56:21):
And uh when we're talking about a toddler, like, I
don't know, less than two yearsold, what kind of parenting can
we do?
SPEAKER_02 (56:28):
Okay, less than two years old, guys.
Basically, your kid is a cowboyscientist.
Like, I'm talking about theyhave zero clue, but they act
like they have all the clues.
Um, they're there for curiosity,for experimenting, for
experiencing.
Your job as the parent is toguide, guide, guide.
(56:48):
Childproof your home, say lessmore often, uh, say no less
often, and just essentiallyunderstand that this kid is
egocentric.
They think the world revolvesaround them.
They don't understand that youknow that there are other things
happening in the world, and youjust have to wait until that
development happens.
SPEAKER_04 (57:06):
SubhanAllah, subhanAllah.
Um, if somebody wants to workwith you, uh, where can they
find you?
How do you work with people?
SPEAKER_02 (57:14):
Yes, I work with clients one-on-one for couples
um relationship coaching as wellas parenting coaching.
You can find me on socials atcoachmaceeq.
I'm also um found you can emailme.
I wonder if you could put theemail in the description.
Yes, I can.
And uh you work with clients uhall over the world, right?
(57:35):
I do.
I work with clients all over theworld, um, and I offer workshops
as well as one-to-one umcoaching.
SPEAKER_04 (57:42):
Mashallah.
Mashallah.
I'm really, really happy we gotto have this uh conversation.
Like I said, we've beenfollowing you for the longest
time.
We learned a lot even beforehaving children.
We don't have children yet, butuh we look forward to learning
more from you and uh thank youso much for your time, for your
knowledge.
And uh thank you so much, ourdear listeners.
You heard even if you're stillsingle, there is work to be
(58:03):
done.
Um, don't think that parenthoodis something to discuss and talk
about later when we havechildren.
There's a lot of things to bedone right now.
And uh hope you enjoyed theinterview.
We'll see inshallah in the nextepisode.
Assalamu alaikum.
SPEAKER_02 (58:16):
Thank you, as salamu alaikum.
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