September 5, 2025 • 32 mins
How long should the talking stage really last? For many Muslims, what starts as a way to assess compatibility drags on for months or even years with no real progress. In this episode we dive into the question every single faces: when does talking cross the line from intentional to wasted time? We explore why so many get stuck, the signs it has gone on too long, and how to know when it’s time to move forward or move on. If you’ve ever felt trapped in endless conversations with no clarity, this episode is your wake-up call.
Check out thie short video on "Halal Dating".
If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Muslims in the West don't date, but some of us,
low-key, do.
We just call it the talkingstage.
But when does getting to knowyou become a halal situationship
?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Are we using the talking stage as a loophole for
halal dating?
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah, assalamu alaikumeveryone, welcome to another
episode.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Assalamu alaikum.
So how is the search going foryou guys?
Are you moving forward?
Are things getting easy,inshallah?
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, inshallah, hopefully it is from you.
Yeah, inshallah, hopefully itis um.
But that's why we're here tohelp you guys out, give you guys
some tips and help you navigatethe journey with ease and the
occasional unloading, of course,of course I feel like that's
what we do a lot of anyways, um,but why do people drag out the
(01:03):
courting phase?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So many reasons Like it really depends on the
situation.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Okay, did you ever drag out your courting phase
prior to talking to me?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
No, but I was dragged .
You could say like aconversation with me was dragged
.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Really yes.
What were the circumstancesbehind?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
it so.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Are you referring to your engagement?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
no, not my engagement .
It's somebody I started talkingto on hod before we started
talking and like it was nice,but it wasn't moving forward.
Just the conversations hadnothing to do with assessing
compatibility.
It was like a good morningmessage, some I don't know cute
messages and stuff, but itwasn't moving anywhere so the
(01:50):
deeper question is why do peopledo that?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
right I mean here we're going to try to give
people the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not saying everybody comesin with bad intentions and just
has a sincere intention ofwasting your time and dragging
things out, but there there is aunderlying reason as to why
things drag out for for howeverlong they do, um, what we were
(02:13):
just talking about, this priorto recording, and guys and I
know girls get stuck with thislabel sometimes.
But guys also do feel a senseof insecurity, right, loneliness
, insecurity, and they'reseeking validation.
One way to seek that is bytalking to someone right, and
especially if it's a girl that'sshowing interest in them,
(02:36):
that's showing affection,showing some signs of a future
relationship, it feels prettygood I guess emotional addiction
emotional addiction and on.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Like to be honest, it does feel good.
It does feel good to wake up toa message from someone, or like
someone asking about you andlike, like it's, it's good right
, it's good.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's a dopamine, right?
Yeah is it.
I believe it's dopamine, butbut yeah, you get that that
shock especially if there isphysical attraction of course,
yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
But uh, at the end of the day, we are talking to
assist compatibility for thepurpose of marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, everything has to have the intention of
marriage.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, so that's why like intention is the most
important thing you can have inyour entire search.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
it just sets up the entire like interaction yeah,
and we say this all the time inour workshops too, and then when
we coach people that you knowthe there's a reason.
The prophet said the actionsare guided by intentions and we,
you know we, sometimes we getstuck on matrimonial websites,
(03:44):
going to events for so long thatwe just get stuck in this
routine and this rut and weforget our intention.
And sometimes we have torecalibrate ourselves and reset
what our intention is and makingsure that, when we are taking
that step, that our intentionguides our actions and also
(04:07):
forms boundaries and parameterstoo.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah right, we'll come to that in a
bit.
Yeah, also another reason whypeople get stuck in the talking
stages is just fear of missingout.
Like you want to, you don'twant to lose this person.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You have a potential you have something that looks
good right oh, your friends areall getting married, and then
you don't want to miss out alsoexactly.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So at least you're like oh, but I'm talking to
someone, right?
I'm talking to someone.
No, I'm not lonely, I'm notalone yeah I'm not single.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I'm talking to someone yeah, so it gives you
this false sense of relationshiprelationship yeah, yeah, you're
right.
So a cool oxymoron not a cooloxymoron, but a common oxymoron,
we hear is halal dating.
And then there's pseudo halaldating on top of that too.
So I mean, what is pseudo halaldating?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
it's like when you put the the the mask, or you
mask the dating with talkingright and you slap the halal
label on it?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, exactly Because hey, I'm talking to somebody,
but if you're talking tosomebody for the purpose of
marriage, then it's not reallydating, it's more courting.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right yeah, halal certified.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It's halal, certified Exactly.
But people justify talking tosomebody for a long time because
, hey, we're not physical, we'renot doing anything haram.
But I know, I know we'll getinto this in a little bit when
there aren't boundaries andparameters, said then the devil
(05:37):
takes, it takes advantagebecause you, and then it becomes
a slippery slope because youcan't control your emotions.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
You can't control your actions, but you can't
control your emotions yeah yeah,I mean some people like have
been talking since I don't knowlast ramadan and the parents
don't even know that this personexists in their lives, right?
Exactly what kind of future isthis relationship heading?
So we'll get into that in a bitlike involving family and stuff
like that yeah, so we'vededicated some content to this.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We did a video about this too, which you guys can
check out on our youtube channel.
Um get married with hiba andzayd.
But we have to distinguishbetween courting and dating
right, and there is a bigdifference, and sometimes, as
muslims, we forget that our deendoes allow the opportunity and
time for us to assesscompatibility, like talking to
(06:27):
somebody, getting to know them,asking the right questions.
There's nothing wrong with that.
The problem is that we don'tset boundaries.
We don't set parameters as towhat is acceptable and what is
not.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And then courting just becomes dating Right.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
and then it just becomes like whatever Andrew and
Samantha are doing down thestreet right.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Talk about Andrew and Samantha, Okay sorry, sorry,
andrew and Samantha.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So what are some basic boundaries that we set
when courting?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So I would say, just like we already said before,
this is only for the purpose ofmarriage.
You come with this clearintention and you make sure that
the other person is also on thesame page.
You don't want to have amisalignment of intentions.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Right.
So number one intention it isonly for the sole purpose of
marriage.
Number two what is number two?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Number two is that parents are aware and approve.
And I'm not saying like fromthe first, like conversation,
the first message youimmediately involve parents.
But early on parents should beaware and involved.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Right, especially if you're meeting the person out in
public.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Which leads me to rule number three.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Rule number three is this should be whatever meeting
should be in an open and publicplace.
You're not meeting, I don'tknow, in a friend's apartment.
You're not meeting like, justlike in this deserted park where
, like, there are no peoplethere, right?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And I probably just add a little bit more to that.
You're meeting duringappropriate hours.
You're not meeting 11 pm at acoffee shop that's open late, of
course.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Like that's not appropriate and if your
intention is clear, theneverything else becomes easy.
And like clear, you're notshowing up in it too, there's
but you're not showing up tothis meeting, all doled up and
like wearing provoking clothesand stuff you are not yeah,
you're not.
The guy's not showing up withhis shirt half open and like
(08:31):
which we did see once, so thereis like basic courtesy, and
basic like etiquette that comeswith courting right.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
So you dress well, appropriate for the situation
and you bring your best self.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And rule number four no physical touching yes, no
shaking hands, no hugging, nopetting on the shoulder right,
we're not non-muslims.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Guys like this is such common sense stuff, but it
needs to be said just becauseyou're meeting, it doesn't mean
that now everything is okay.
Yeah, you know what we shouldgive our example.
So when Hiba and I met inperson in Chicago, we were not
engaged, we didn't have ournikah.
There was nothing there.
(09:14):
We just our parents knew we hadour intentions on getting our
nikah, and that coming saturday.
But when we met, we didn't hug,we didn't hold hands didn't
shake hands.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
We didn't shake hands .
We didn't do anything.
We just walked down the street.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
We just walked down the streets, we created healthy
boundaries and went out to eat.
But, yeah, our parents wereinvolved.
Everybody was aware.
So we like even though, like wecould have easily held hands
right, no family was around butwe wanted this to begin.
We wanted this to be thebeginning of something beautiful
(09:52):
.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Exactly.
Of course, don't underestimatethe power of Barakah.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Seriously, was it hard for you.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
No, no, it wasn't, Because I was just.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I had to be patient a few days and that's it okay.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I knew what was coming inshallah.
So yes, again to reiterate, ourallows for courting and not
dating, um, but lines can getblurred.
So if you are not creatingboundaries and parameters, then
you know it becomes a slipperyslope and the devil gets to
(10:25):
whisper in your ear the wasswass right wass, wass uh, and so
first it just becomes aconversation about marriage, and
then joking happens and thenflirting and then you're sharing
pictures, and then whatpictures are appropriate to
share, what things areappropriate to talk about,
what's not appropriate?
having like late time face timeright, and then you're calling
(10:48):
each other 11 at night or at 5am and giggling and like we're
not saying that this should belike a job interview of course
you're gonna be yourself, you'regonna be open and vulnerable at
some point, but as long as yourintention is clear, then it
will just lead everything elseinshallah.
Emotional intimacy withoutcommitment is a clear recipe for
(11:12):
a heartbreak yeah, of courseright so you might get
comfortable to the point whereyou're just going to start
sharing everything your Spotifyusername and password, your
Netflix login, your trauma,everything Because you know
you're just getting warm andcozy with this person, but at
the same time, you haven't askedthe important questions.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You can't even assess .
Is this relationship goinganywhere?
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Because, like we said in the beginning, it feels
you're living in the momentright, and you don't know how
long this is going to last, solet's skip the important stuff,
because it just I'm just seekingthat dopamine hit and, like we
said, guys, we both have beenthere, so we're not coming with
this like judgmental.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Look that, oh, it feels good like emotional
satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
We understand I, I've been there.
My journey spanned nine years,as I've mentioned multiple times
in previous episodes, and thattakes a toll on you and it's not
easy being alone for ninestraight years.
And so in one situation Iremember I was talking to a girl
who was in another state.
We liked each other but therewas always this nagging feeling
(12:24):
that you know, I don't like.
I don't know if I find thisgirl attractive or not, and I
just kept going with the flowbecause I didn't think anybody
else would come along.
I didn't think anybody elsewould come along.
It felt good in the moment andthey were willing to overlook
(12:45):
some very personal circumstancesof mine that were not
necessarily, quote-unquote,conducive to marriage, like
immigration, financial stabilityand things like that.
So it felt good to have thatvalidation and somebody showing
interest in me, that validationand somebody showing interest in
me.
So it got to the point where,like, families got involved to
(13:05):
an extent and there was ameeting in person.
And then it got to a pointwhere I said and this was, I
think, maybe two or three monthsin, I just ended it and I
dragged it on longer than Ishould have, and of it's one of
many regrets I have, but it wasall a learning experience
because, as difficult as itsounded especially if you're a
(13:30):
guy that's getting rejected overand over and over again, for
whatever reason it might befinancial instability,
immigration, maybe your height,maybe you're a shorter guy and
you're getting rejected,whatever it might be.
Take it from somebody who'sbeen there and don't pursue
these things as a means ofvalidation.
All right.
Always have your intentionsclear and always come back to
(13:52):
that intention and make surethat those intentions are
guiding your actions now someone?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
someone might ask don't you guys feel hypocritical
?
You are lecturing people andtelling them what to do and what
not to do, when you yourselfhave made these mistakes.
It's a legitimate question.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yes and no.
I mean, the reason we'resharing all of these things is
because we've made thesemistakes and we don't want you
guys to make the same mistakesas us.
So we're sharing these things,not just to put our sins on
public display and things likethat.
No, we genuinely want you guysto have your journeys filled
with ease, to to find the rightpartner, and not waste your time
(14:35):
talking to somebody, seekingthat dopamine, seeking
validation, seeking all of thesethings that won't benefit you
and, essentially, not justwasting your time, but wasting
the time of the person you'respeaking to.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Like, if I can give my younger self an advice, I
would give her the same advicewe give, like in this episode
and other episodes, because Idon't know, like with age, with
experience, with mistakes comes.
Should I say wisdom or does it?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
sound pretentious.
With age comes wisdom, not tosay we're very wise people.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Or to say that we're old, we're not that old.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
But alhamdulillah, we have learned a lot over the
years through our personalexperiences as well as our
professional experiences.
And that has really led us toshaping our service and and
helping people who need it andshape this podcast and shape
this podcast.
Of course, if you're overwhelmedand burdened and just don't
know where to seek help, let ushelp you.
(15:35):
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Visit us at halalmatchca andbook a free call with us.
So we get this question a lot,where people ask so what is an
appropriate timeline or timeframe we should use when
speaking to somebody anddeciding about marriage?
But the thing is, there's noformula, there's no
(15:56):
one-size-fits-all that works foreveryone.
For us, we made a decision, Ithink after four weeks, yeah,
and but keep in mind, withinthose four weeks, we talked
almost every day for a few hoursyeah, and we asked each other's
lots of questions, lots ofquestions and we didn't waste
time talking about the weather,travel destinations, our
(16:17):
favorite cuisine.
We asked very in-depth questions, scenario-based questions, and
every time it was just like,okay, this is a good sign, it
was a green flag and it moved usfurther along.
So we did a very intense levelof compatibility within those
four weeks.
So the question to ask yourselfis how much time are you
willing to invest?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And ultimately, it's about quality, not quantity I
was just gonna say that, likeyou could talk to someone for a
year, but if you're, all you'retalking about is just like silly
stuff and shallow stuff, thenthis is not good it's not gonna
help you.
It's not gonna help you and youcould talk to someone for two
weeks, three weeks, and just ask, like you said, intentional,
in-depth uh questions anddetermine within that time.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, yeah I think, um, if you're coming in ready
with the, because when I startedtalking to you, I came ready
with my questions yeah, I knowright.
I was like boom, boom, boom, andif you pass the, it was kind of
like a checklist, not asuperficial checklist, but a
checklist of questions where Iknew if you answered it the way
(17:23):
that, um, if you answered it thewrong way, I knew you wouldn't
be a fit for me, right, whetherit was about lifestyle,
religious values, things likethat.
But you passed kind of everycheckpoint for me.
So we were like okay, this ismoving along and then you came
ready with your questions too.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
To be honest, in the beginning I didn't have specific
questions, but when I saw thatyou had specific questions, I
immediately started forming mineyeah and uh, but it didn't, at
least for me it didn't feel like, uh, this guy is just asking me
to determine and like like ajob interview right.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I never treated it like a job interview, like a
conversation, it was yeah,everything like flowed.
It flowed, yes, and I was verysensitive to that and I didn't
want you to feel like you werebeing interrogated yeah so, yes,
I always tried to make it, makeit fun and like whenever you
would jump on a call, you say,hey, guess what?
Or what do you think of this?
Like there was always some sortof entertaining element to it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But you know, besides us, I remember some of our
clients, like specifically thisone case where she said that she
and her ex, before they gotmarried, they talked for a year
and they were together for ayear and then divorce happened
after like two or three monthsand you would think, like a year
of talking to somebody youwould get to know a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, right, yeah, like, I mean minus the fact that
you haven't lived together.
But you can check off a lot ofthings and assess in different
ways whether or not this personis truly a match for you with
the exception of cases where theperson just reveals their true
colors after marriage, and thisdoes happen yeah, this does
(19:05):
happen, but those are very rarecases in my opinion.
So, men and women, theysometimes have their own
timelines I guess, for men.
Sometimes men keep dragging thecourting phase for longer than
necessary because it feels likeI said, it feels good to talk to
somebody, but they're not readyat the same time, right
(19:28):
financially, um, maybe they'rejust kind of tying up loose ends
.
Their immigration status isstill in limbo.
There could be a lot ofdifferent factors yeah but at
the same time, you don't need tohave those things crossed off
in order to be ready formarriage.
So what am I saying exactly?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
well, if you know for sure that at this moment, at
this time, you are not ready formarriage, you physically or
literally can't get married,then don't start talking to
girls of course don't startwasting people's times and same
thing applies to girls too.
Same thing yeah, we're gonnaget to girls, why girls like
prolong talking stages, but um,I think it's more of a stigma uh
(20:10):
, a guy's stigma that.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, they prolong the guys, waste the girls, yeah
girls want to get the ballmoving.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Are you interested in marriage or not?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
that's all I want to know.
Yeah, yeah and yeah.
That's the one complaint Ialways hear from girls like, oh,
this guy wasting my time, thisguy oh, I found out he has he's
already married.
I found out this about him andhe wasn't open in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So guys stop doing that yeah, I know it's a cliche
and no, what I'm about to sayright now.
I know it's a cliche and it'sbeen overused this analogy but
do you want somebody to do thisto your sister, waste her time
and her emotions?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
right and on the flip .
Sisters use long talking stagesto test the guy's patience,
Like he has to jump through 20different hooves and it's an
obstacle course.
It's like Tough Mudder.
And then if they can make itthrough the 15K obstacle course,
all right, now he's good enoughfor marriage.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, I guess they have their own mind games and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, that's why girls always get slapped with
the label of she's playing hardto get yes, yes, yeah, yeah so
some interesting phrases that wewe come across that's worth
mentioning.
Um, there's textationshipscouples who never meet but just
send memes for like six months,or like emojis and just cute
(21:38):
messages.
And then there's the ghostcontract people disappear and
this is very common.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
This is very common.
We dedicated an entire episodeto ghosting.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah so people just disappear, and then after six
months they come back and say,salam, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
how you been like nothing happened nothing
happened.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And then there's a halal catfish yeah what's the
halal catfish?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
so when, like someone , presents themselves as this
pious, super religious personbut, then, once things become
serious, they reveal their truecolors.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
All right uh, now, family delays.
This is one that doesn't getenough attention, I think, where
in some cases parents do dragtheir feet and parents sometimes
don't want to be honest withtheir son or daughter and say,
hey, I think this person is aterrible match for you, I don't
like this guy or I don't likethis girl, and they just kind
(22:38):
are like wishy-washy about itand they brush it off and
meanwhile the girl or guy's timeis invested in this and they
want to move things forward, butthe parents are just holding
out for someone better or, likeyou said before we started
recording oh, we need to to getthe older girl, older sister,
(22:59):
married first and desi culture.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah or we have, like I don't know, a wedding
happening in a month, so let'sput this on hold until we have
the wedding right the othersister, and then a family
emergency happens, and thensomething else happens and
ramadan comes.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And oh yeah, it comes , because it's haram to talk
about marriage in ramadan, likecome on man.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Actually there's, but you know what I've noticed?
Some of our clients do ask toput their search on hold during
Ramadan.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I don't understand why I don't know Exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
It's a month of barakah, like it's a month of
Quran, but at the same time youstill go to work, you go to
school, you do invest insearching.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, cool, you do invest in searching yeah so.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
So why is it that, like ibadah has to come at the
cost of marriage?
This is also.
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It is, but people don't usually look at it that
way.
Right, they see, as marriage isjust a full, like a halal
fulfillment of desires, but it'snot ibadah right, we're talking
about a full month out of yourlife yeah, yeah, I don't know
why people do that.
Yeah, I mean I can understandnot having the wedding during
(24:05):
ramadan.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, that part, that part I get or like okay, I, I,
you want to go off the apps forramadan yes, that's totally fine
, yeah but like if somethinggood, a good potential comes
across, like you come acrossduring ramadan, don't delay it
you know what I think?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I disagree with you on that.
Even during ramadan, keep yourmatrimonial account active, keep
searching, keep that, keep thework going.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Don't put it on hold, even for ramadan but the apps
could end up just wasting yourtime long conversations and you
don't know who's serious apps.
You shouldn't be on the apps tobegin with, just wasting your
time.
Long conversations and youdon't know who's serious the
apps you shouldn't be on theapps to begin with.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I mean, that's just designed for dating, but I'm
talking about, like, legitimateavenues, rishta, aunties,
matchmakers, I'm talking aboutmatrimonial websites.
Keep that work going.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, so my opinion, my take on timelines is if
you're talking for two or threemonths and you still can't, uh,
determine if this is worthpursuing or not, then it's
probably not so I I disagreewith you a bit on that, because
for me every circumstance, everysituation is different no, of
(25:16):
course I'm not talking aboutexceptions like like in case of
I don't know long distance, andlike he had to travel for work
and like she has the I don'tknow.
She had some exams to finish andthey're taking I don't know two
week break and stuff.
I'm not talking about thesesituations right.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I think that, like everybody is kind of has their
own circumstances, whether it'sschool, family commitments and
things like that.
But to me, regardless of thecircumstances you're in unless
they're very dire circumstancesthat requires your 100 attention
.
If marriage is that isimportant enough to you, you
(25:58):
will carve out time out of yourday to make that work.
Yeah, right, yeah.
And if you were talking aboutthis before, if people are just
relying on Zoom calls to assesscompatibility, or with you guys
just scheduling appointments,whatsapp video calls or calls on
the weekends and let's justtalk for an hour, and then you
(26:20):
guys talk on a saturday 5 pm,you have that one hour zoom call
and then after the zoom call islike, um, yeah, it went well,
let's uh, let's schedule anotherzoom call and then the next
zoom call is scheduled for thenext saturday at five o'clock
and you're just relying on thesezoom calls to assess
compatibility.
Get to know each other like it'sgonna fizzle out right, because
(26:40):
there's no reinforcement afterthe zoom call, because sometimes
there's this fire burning,there's this interest and and
desire excitement, right, andyou want to build off of that.
And we've seen cases with ourown clients where they there is
no follow-up, there is noinvestment, investment of time
and energy and things justfizzle out and then they come
(27:01):
back to us and can you findsomebody else?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
yeah, yeah right, but there's nothing wrong with zoom
calls I mean our entirecourting was over skype.
Right, but it's like thefrequency and the the quality of
the call is quality overquantity, yeah, but yeah.
But going back to my previouspoint, if you've been talking
for two months, for three months, let's say two months, okay,
(27:24):
and like you can't, I'm nottalking.
Okay, within two months youhave to decide I'm marrying them
or I'm moving on, but withintwo months you feel like we're
still in the same spot.
I still can't get anunderstanding of this person.
Do we have any level ofcompatibility or not?
If you can't have these basicthings after two months, then I
(27:47):
guess you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I mean the good, the question, the deeper questions
to be asking is what have youdone within those two months?
Exactly right what questionshave asked how much time has
been invested.
Have parents been involved atthat stage?
Yet If those elements aren'tthere within I would say two
months, then it's a huge redflag.
(28:09):
So some practical advice for youguys.
Number one there is no shame inwalking away.
If your intentions are clearfrom the get-go and you've set
the appropriate boundaries and,like you mentioned about that,
you know two months have beeninvested and things are not
moving along and you're justseeing constant red flags, then
yes, it's definitely appropriateto walk away.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, there's no, you should walk away.
You should walk away.
The sooner you walk away, thebetter.
Yeah, number two is ground theentire process in Islam, in our
deen.
Our deen encourages clarity andقولوا قولا سديدا.
In Surah Al-Ahzab Like saysomething clear, don't be
(28:54):
wishy-washy.
So yeah, be clear with yourwords, be clear with your
emotions, with your intentionsand number three involve family
sooner.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yes, there's no reason why two people should be
talking for two months andfamilies don't know how.
How quick did we involve ourparents?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I would say by week three ish well, depends what you
mean by involving them in termsof them talking to you, then
yes, so let me clarify.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So that's a good point.
Let me clarify that.
So both of our parents knewthat we were using um resources
and matrimony websites to try toget married.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Um, but um in my case , in your case, from the, the
very beginning, I told him I'mtalking to this guy.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yes, I didn't tell my parents that I found somebody.
I was talking to her because itwasn't necessary at that point,
because I didn't want to get myparents excited.
But I would say, closer to week, three of us talking and
courting, we were just like, yes, this is serious.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think it's time to involve parents I think your mom
was suspecting something,because you used to like go on
the balcony and like have theselong conversations.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, yeah, moms always know yeah, so, um, yes,
you should be involving parentssooner.
At least, at the bare minimum,let them know that you've, uh,
you're talking to somebody, um,and that you are applying
appropriate boundaries, andthings like that.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And once things like progress a little bit more,
you're going to introduce themto this person.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I think we've addressed this in the parents
episode, but parents do need tohave a level of trust in their
children right, and when parentsespecially when parents put
that on matrimony websites I'msearching for my son, I'm
searching for my daughter itcomes across as, like you know,
you just don't trust yourchildren sometimes.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Or your children are just too busy, like we received
an email the other day from aparent.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, his daughter is like more than a week ago.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, yeah, his daughter was finishing up with I
don't know her master's orsomething, and she told them to
look for her because she doesn'thave time.
And we're like okay, inshallah,best of luck to your daughter.
When she's ready to look, wewould talk to her.
We would love to talk to her.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
At this point we want to ask you guys a question.
Some of you might have longertalking stages than actual
marriages.
Last and that's not good,because courting is not meant to
, we're not non-Muslims thatdate and date, and date forever
until we finally move in witheach other.
And then 20 years later werealize, hey, we're just common
(31:32):
law, we don't need to getmarried.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Halal common law Right.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Courting should be short, it should be with the
intention of marriage and itshould provide some sort of
substance and value.
So hopefully you guys can applysome of the things that we've
mentioned and um, and get somesort of value out of your
courting phase okay.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
So before we leave, you guys, what's the longest
talking stage you've ever had?
And, looking back, do you thinkit was worth it or not?
Really, how will you do itdifferently in your next
relationship?
Um, let us know.
You know how to do that.
Just leave a comment and,inshallah, we will see you in
the next one assalamu alaikum.
Muslims in the West don't date, but some of us,
low-key, do.
We just call it the talkingstage.
But when does getting to knowyou become a halal situationship
?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Are we using the talking stage as a loophole for
halal dating?
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah, assalamu alaikumeveryone, welcome to another
episode.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Assalamu alaikum.
So how is the search going foryou guys?
Are you moving forward?
Are things getting easy,inshallah?
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, inshallah, hopefully it is from you.
Yeah, inshallah, hopefully itis um.
But that's why we're here tohelp you guys out, give you guys
some tips and help you navigatethe journey with ease and the
occasional unloading, of course,of course I feel like that's
what we do a lot of anyways, um,but why do people drag out the
(01:03):
courting phase?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So many reasons Like it really depends on the
situation.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Okay, did you ever drag out your courting phase
prior to talking to me?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
No, but I was dragged .
You could say like aconversation with me was dragged
.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Really yes.
What were the circumstancesbehind?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
it so.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Are you referring to your engagement?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
no, not my engagement .
It's somebody I started talkingto on hod before we started
talking and like it was nice,but it wasn't moving forward.
Just the conversations hadnothing to do with assessing
compatibility.
It was like a good morningmessage, some I don't know cute
messages and stuff, but itwasn't moving anywhere so the
(01:50):
deeper question is why do peopledo that?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
right I mean here we're going to try to give
people the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not saying everybody comesin with bad intentions and just
has a sincere intention ofwasting your time and dragging
things out, but there there is aunderlying reason as to why
things drag out for for howeverlong they do, um, what we were
(02:13):
just talking about, this priorto recording, and guys and I
know girls get stuck with thislabel sometimes.
But guys also do feel a senseof insecurity, right, loneliness
, insecurity, and they'reseeking validation.
One way to seek that is bytalking to someone right, and
especially if it's a girl that'sshowing interest in them,
(02:36):
that's showing affection,showing some signs of a future
relationship, it feels prettygood I guess emotional addiction
emotional addiction and on.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Like to be honest, it does feel good.
It does feel good to wake up toa message from someone, or like
someone asking about you andlike, like it's, it's good right
, it's good.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's a dopamine, right?
Yeah is it.
I believe it's dopamine, butbut yeah, you get that that
shock especially if there isphysical attraction of course,
yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
But uh, at the end of the day, we are talking to
assist compatibility for thepurpose of marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, everything has to have the intention of
marriage.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, so that's why like intention is the most
important thing you can have inyour entire search.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
it just sets up the entire like interaction yeah,
and we say this all the time inour workshops too, and then when
we coach people that you knowthe there's a reason.
The prophet said the actionsare guided by intentions and we,
you know we, sometimes we getstuck on matrimonial websites,
(03:44):
going to events for so long thatwe just get stuck in this
routine and this rut and weforget our intention.
And sometimes we have torecalibrate ourselves and reset
what our intention is and makingsure that, when we are taking
that step, that our intentionguides our actions and also
(04:07):
forms boundaries and parameterstoo.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah right, we'll come to that in a
bit.
Yeah, also another reason whypeople get stuck in the talking
stages is just fear of missingout.
Like you want to, you don'twant to lose this person.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You have a potential you have something that looks
good right oh, your friends areall getting married, and then
you don't want to miss out alsoexactly.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So at least you're like oh, but I'm talking to
someone, right?
I'm talking to someone.
No, I'm not lonely, I'm notalone yeah I'm not single.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I'm talking to someone yeah, so it gives you
this false sense of relationshiprelationship yeah, yeah, you're
right.
So a cool oxymoron not a cooloxymoron, but a common oxymoron,
we hear is halal dating.
And then there's pseudo halaldating on top of that too.
So I mean, what is pseudo halaldating?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
it's like when you put the the the mask, or you
mask the dating with talkingright and you slap the halal
label on it?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, exactly Because hey, I'm talking to somebody,
but if you're talking tosomebody for the purpose of
marriage, then it's not reallydating, it's more courting.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right yeah, halal certified.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It's halal, certified Exactly.
But people justify talking tosomebody for a long time because
, hey, we're not physical, we'renot doing anything haram.
But I know, I know we'll getinto this in a little bit when
there aren't boundaries andparameters, said then the devil
(05:37):
takes, it takes advantagebecause you, and then it becomes
a slippery slope because youcan't control your emotions.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
You can't control your actions, but you can't
control your emotions yeah yeah,I mean some people like have
been talking since I don't knowlast ramadan and the parents
don't even know that this personexists in their lives, right?
Exactly what kind of future isthis relationship heading?
So we'll get into that in a bitlike involving family and stuff
like that yeah, so we'vededicated some content to this.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We did a video about this too, which you guys can
check out on our youtube channel.
Um get married with hiba andzayd.
But we have to distinguishbetween courting and dating
right, and there is a bigdifference, and sometimes, as
muslims, we forget that our deendoes allow the opportunity and
time for us to assesscompatibility, like talking to
(06:27):
somebody, getting to know them,asking the right questions.
There's nothing wrong with that.
The problem is that we don'tset boundaries.
We don't set parameters as towhat is acceptable and what is
not.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And then courting just becomes dating Right.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
and then it just becomes like whatever Andrew and
Samantha are doing down thestreet right.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Talk about Andrew and Samantha, Okay sorry, sorry,
andrew and Samantha.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So what are some basic boundaries that we set
when courting?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So I would say, just like we already said before,
this is only for the purpose ofmarriage.
You come with this clearintention and you make sure that
the other person is also on thesame page.
You don't want to have amisalignment of intentions.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Right.
So number one intention it isonly for the sole purpose of
marriage.
Number two what is number two?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Number two is that parents are aware and approve.
And I'm not saying like fromthe first, like conversation,
the first message youimmediately involve parents.
But early on parents should beaware and involved.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Right, especially if you're meeting the person out in
public.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Which leads me to rule number three.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Rule number three is this should be whatever meeting
should be in an open and publicplace.
You're not meeting, I don'tknow, in a friend's apartment.
You're not meeting like, justlike in this deserted park where
, like, there are no peoplethere, right?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And I probably just add a little bit more to that.
You're meeting duringappropriate hours.
You're not meeting 11 pm at acoffee shop that's open late, of
course.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Like that's not appropriate and if your
intention is clear, theneverything else becomes easy.
And like clear, you're notshowing up in it too, there's
but you're not showing up tothis meeting, all doled up and
like wearing provoking clothesand stuff you are not yeah,
you're not.
The guy's not showing up withhis shirt half open and like
(08:31):
which we did see once, so thereis like basic courtesy, and
basic like etiquette that comeswith courting right.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
So you dress well, appropriate for the situation
and you bring your best self.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And rule number four no physical touching yes, no
shaking hands, no hugging, nopetting on the shoulder right,
we're not non-muslims.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Guys like this is such common sense stuff, but it
needs to be said just becauseyou're meeting, it doesn't mean
that now everything is okay.
Yeah, you know what we shouldgive our example.
So when Hiba and I met inperson in Chicago, we were not
engaged, we didn't have ournikah.
There was nothing there.
(09:14):
We just our parents knew we hadour intentions on getting our
nikah, and that coming saturday.
But when we met, we didn't hug,we didn't hold hands didn't
shake hands.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
We didn't shake hands .
We didn't do anything.
We just walked down the street.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
We just walked down the streets, we created healthy
boundaries and went out to eat.
But, yeah, our parents wereinvolved.
Everybody was aware.
So we like even though, like wecould have easily held hands
right, no family was around butwe wanted this to begin.
We wanted this to be thebeginning of something beautiful
(09:52):
.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Exactly.
Of course, don't underestimatethe power of Barakah.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Seriously, was it hard for you.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
No, no, it wasn't, Because I was just.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I had to be patient a few days and that's it okay.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I knew what was coming inshallah.
So yes, again to reiterate, ourallows for courting and not
dating, um, but lines can getblurred.
So if you are not creatingboundaries and parameters, then
you know it becomes a slipperyslope and the devil gets to
(10:25):
whisper in your ear the wasswass right wass, wass uh, and so
first it just becomes aconversation about marriage, and
then joking happens and thenflirting and then you're sharing
pictures, and then whatpictures are appropriate to
share, what things areappropriate to talk about,
what's not appropriate?
having like late time face timeright, and then you're calling
(10:48):
each other 11 at night or at 5am and giggling and like we're
not saying that this should belike a job interview of course
you're gonna be yourself, you'regonna be open and vulnerable at
some point, but as long as yourintention is clear, then it
will just lead everything elseinshallah.
Emotional intimacy withoutcommitment is a clear recipe for
(11:12):
a heartbreak yeah, of courseright so you might get
comfortable to the point whereyou're just going to start
sharing everything your Spotifyusername and password, your
Netflix login, your trauma,everything Because you know
you're just getting warm andcozy with this person, but at
the same time, you haven't askedthe important questions.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You can't even assess .
Is this relationship goinganywhere?
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Because, like we said in the beginning, it feels
you're living in the momentright, and you don't know how
long this is going to last, solet's skip the important stuff,
because it just I'm just seekingthat dopamine hit and, like we
said, guys, we both have beenthere, so we're not coming with
this like judgmental.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Look that, oh, it feels good like emotional
satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
We understand I, I've been there.
My journey spanned nine years,as I've mentioned multiple times
in previous episodes, and thattakes a toll on you and it's not
easy being alone for ninestraight years.
And so in one situation Iremember I was talking to a girl
who was in another state.
We liked each other but therewas always this nagging feeling
(12:24):
that you know, I don't like.
I don't know if I find thisgirl attractive or not, and I
just kept going with the flowbecause I didn't think anybody
else would come along.
I didn't think anybody elsewould come along.
It felt good in the moment andthey were willing to overlook
(12:45):
some very personal circumstancesof mine that were not
necessarily, quote-unquote,conducive to marriage, like
immigration, financial stabilityand things like that.
So it felt good to have thatvalidation and somebody showing
interest in me, that validationand somebody showing interest in
me.
So it got to the point where,like, families got involved to
(13:05):
an extent and there was ameeting in person.
And then it got to a pointwhere I said and this was, I
think, maybe two or three monthsin, I just ended it and I
dragged it on longer than Ishould have, and of it's one of
many regrets I have, but it wasall a learning experience
because, as difficult as itsounded especially if you're a
(13:30):
guy that's getting rejected overand over and over again, for
whatever reason it might befinancial instability,
immigration, maybe your height,maybe you're a shorter guy and
you're getting rejected,whatever it might be.
Take it from somebody who'sbeen there and don't pursue
these things as a means ofvalidation.
All right.
Always have your intentionsclear and always come back to
(13:52):
that intention and make surethat those intentions are
guiding your actions now someone?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
someone might ask don't you guys feel hypocritical
?
You are lecturing people andtelling them what to do and what
not to do, when you yourselfhave made these mistakes.
It's a legitimate question.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yes and no.
I mean, the reason we'resharing all of these things is
because we've made thesemistakes and we don't want you
guys to make the same mistakesas us.
So we're sharing these things,not just to put our sins on
public display and things likethat.
No, we genuinely want you guysto have your journeys filled
with ease, to to find the rightpartner, and not waste your time
(14:35):
talking to somebody, seekingthat dopamine, seeking
validation, seeking all of thesethings that won't benefit you
and, essentially, not justwasting your time, but wasting
the time of the person you'respeaking to.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Like, if I can give my younger self an advice, I
would give her the same advicewe give, like in this episode
and other episodes, because Idon't know, like with age, with
experience, with mistakes comes.
Should I say wisdom or does it?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
sound pretentious.
With age comes wisdom, not tosay we're very wise people.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Or to say that we're old, we're not that old.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
But alhamdulillah, we have learned a lot over the
years through our personalexperiences as well as our
professional experiences.
And that has really led us toshaping our service and and
helping people who need it andshape this podcast and shape
this podcast.
Of course, if you're overwhelmedand burdened and just don't
know where to seek help, let ushelp you.
(15:35):
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Visit us at halalmatchca andbook a free call with us.
So we get this question a lot,where people ask so what is an
appropriate timeline or timeframe we should use when
speaking to somebody anddeciding about marriage?
But the thing is, there's noformula, there's no
(15:56):
one-size-fits-all that works foreveryone.
For us, we made a decision, Ithink after four weeks, yeah,
and but keep in mind, withinthose four weeks, we talked
almost every day for a few hoursyeah, and we asked each other's
lots of questions, lots ofquestions and we didn't waste
time talking about the weather,travel destinations, our
(16:17):
favorite cuisine.
We asked very in-depth questions, scenario-based questions, and
every time it was just like,okay, this is a good sign, it
was a green flag and it moved usfurther along.
So we did a very intense levelof compatibility within those
four weeks.
So the question to ask yourselfis how much time are you
willing to invest?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And ultimately, it's about quality, not quantity I
was just gonna say that, likeyou could talk to someone for a
year, but if you're, all you'retalking about is just like silly
stuff and shallow stuff, thenthis is not good it's not gonna
help you.
It's not gonna help you and youcould talk to someone for two
weeks, three weeks, and just ask, like you said, intentional,
in-depth uh questions anddetermine within that time.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, yeah I think, um, if you're coming in ready
with the, because when I startedtalking to you, I came ready
with my questions yeah, I knowright.
I was like boom, boom, boom, andif you pass the, it was kind of
like a checklist, not asuperficial checklist, but a
checklist of questions where Iknew if you answered it the way
(17:23):
that, um, if you answered it thewrong way, I knew you wouldn't
be a fit for me, right, whetherit was about lifestyle,
religious values, things likethat.
But you passed kind of everycheckpoint for me.
So we were like okay, this ismoving along and then you came
ready with your questions too.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
To be honest, in the beginning I didn't have specific
questions, but when I saw thatyou had specific questions, I
immediately started forming mineyeah and uh, but it didn't, at
least for me it didn't feel like, uh, this guy is just asking me
to determine and like like ajob interview right.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I never treated it like a job interview, like a
conversation, it was yeah,everything like flowed.
It flowed, yes, and I was verysensitive to that and I didn't
want you to feel like you werebeing interrogated yeah so, yes,
I always tried to make it, makeit fun and like whenever you
would jump on a call, you say,hey, guess what?
Or what do you think of this?
Like there was always some sortof entertaining element to it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But you know, besides us, I remember some of our
clients, like specifically thisone case where she said that she
and her ex, before they gotmarried, they talked for a year
and they were together for ayear and then divorce happened
after like two or three monthsand you would think, like a year
of talking to somebody youwould get to know a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, right, yeah, like, I mean minus the fact that
you haven't lived together.
But you can check off a lot ofthings and assess in different
ways whether or not this personis truly a match for you with
the exception of cases where theperson just reveals their true
colors after marriage, and thisdoes happen yeah, this does
(19:05):
happen, but those are very rarecases in my opinion.
So, men and women, theysometimes have their own
timelines I guess, for men.
Sometimes men keep dragging thecourting phase for longer than
necessary because it feels likeI said, it feels good to talk to
somebody, but they're not readyat the same time, right
(19:28):
financially, um, maybe they'rejust kind of tying up loose ends
.
Their immigration status isstill in limbo.
There could be a lot ofdifferent factors yeah but at
the same time, you don't need tohave those things crossed off
in order to be ready formarriage.
So what am I saying exactly?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
well, if you know for sure that at this moment, at
this time, you are not ready formarriage, you physically or
literally can't get married,then don't start talking to
girls of course don't startwasting people's times and same
thing applies to girls too.
Same thing yeah, we're gonnaget to girls, why girls like
prolong talking stages, but um,I think it's more of a stigma uh
(20:10):
, a guy's stigma that.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, they prolong the guys, waste the girls, yeah
girls want to get the ballmoving.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Are you interested in marriage or not?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
that's all I want to know.
Yeah, yeah and yeah.
That's the one complaint Ialways hear from girls like, oh,
this guy wasting my time, thisguy oh, I found out he has he's
already married.
I found out this about him andhe wasn't open in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So guys stop doing that yeah, I know it's a cliche
and no, what I'm about to sayright now.
I know it's a cliche and it'sbeen overused this analogy but
do you want somebody to do thisto your sister, waste her time
and her emotions?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
right and on the flip .
Sisters use long talking stagesto test the guy's patience,
Like he has to jump through 20different hooves and it's an
obstacle course.
It's like Tough Mudder.
And then if they can make itthrough the 15K obstacle course,
all right, now he's good enoughfor marriage.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, I guess they have their own mind games and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, that's why girls always get slapped with
the label of she's playing hardto get yes, yes, yeah, yeah so
some interesting phrases that wewe come across that's worth
mentioning.
Um, there's textationshipscouples who never meet but just
send memes for like six months,or like emojis and just cute
(21:38):
messages.
And then there's the ghostcontract people disappear and
this is very common.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
This is very common.
We dedicated an entire episodeto ghosting.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah so people just disappear, and then after six
months they come back and say,salam, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
how you been like nothing happened nothing
happened.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And then there's a halal catfish yeah what's the
halal catfish?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
so when, like someone , presents themselves as this
pious, super religious personbut, then, once things become
serious, they reveal their truecolors.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
All right uh, now, family delays.
This is one that doesn't getenough attention, I think, where
in some cases parents do dragtheir feet and parents sometimes
don't want to be honest withtheir son or daughter and say,
hey, I think this person is aterrible match for you, I don't
like this guy or I don't likethis girl, and they just kind
(22:38):
are like wishy-washy about itand they brush it off and
meanwhile the girl or guy's timeis invested in this and they
want to move things forward, butthe parents are just holding
out for someone better or, likeyou said before we started
recording oh, we need to to getthe older girl, older sister,
(22:59):
married first and desi culture.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah or we have, like I don't know, a wedding
happening in a month, so let'sput this on hold until we have
the wedding right the othersister, and then a family
emergency happens, and thensomething else happens and
ramadan comes.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And oh yeah, it comes , because it's haram to talk
about marriage in ramadan, likecome on man.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Actually there's, but you know what I've noticed?
Some of our clients do ask toput their search on hold during
Ramadan.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I don't understand why I don't know Exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
It's a month of barakah, like it's a month of
Quran, but at the same time youstill go to work, you go to
school, you do invest insearching.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, cool, you do invest in searching yeah so.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
So why is it that, like ibadah has to come at the
cost of marriage?
This is also.
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It is, but people don't usually look at it that
way.
Right, they see, as marriage isjust a full, like a halal
fulfillment of desires, but it'snot ibadah right, we're talking
about a full month out of yourlife yeah, yeah, I don't know
why people do that.
Yeah, I mean I can understandnot having the wedding during
(24:05):
ramadan.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, that part, that part I get or like okay, I, I,
you want to go off the apps forramadan yes, that's totally fine
, yeah but like if somethinggood, a good potential comes
across, like you come acrossduring ramadan, don't delay it
you know what I think?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I disagree with you on that.
Even during ramadan, keep yourmatrimonial account active, keep
searching, keep that, keep thework going.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Don't put it on hold, even for ramadan but the apps
could end up just wasting yourtime long conversations and you
don't know who's serious apps.
You shouldn't be on the apps tobegin with, just wasting your
time.
Long conversations and youdon't know who's serious the
apps you shouldn't be on theapps to begin with.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I mean, that's just designed for dating, but I'm
talking about, like, legitimateavenues, rishta, aunties,
matchmakers, I'm talking aboutmatrimonial websites.
Keep that work going.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, so my opinion, my take on timelines is if
you're talking for two or threemonths and you still can't, uh,
determine if this is worthpursuing or not, then it's
probably not so I I disagreewith you a bit on that, because
for me every circumstance, everysituation is different no, of
(25:16):
course I'm not talking aboutexceptions like like in case of
I don't know long distance, andlike he had to travel for work
and like she has the I don'tknow.
She had some exams to finish andthey're taking I don't know two
week break and stuff.
I'm not talking about thesesituations right.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I think that, like everybody is kind of has their
own circumstances, whether it'sschool, family commitments and
things like that.
But to me, regardless of thecircumstances you're in unless
they're very dire circumstancesthat requires your 100 attention
.
If marriage is that isimportant enough to you, you
(25:58):
will carve out time out of yourday to make that work.
Yeah, right, yeah.
And if you were talking aboutthis before, if people are just
relying on Zoom calls to assesscompatibility, or with you guys
just scheduling appointments,whatsapp video calls or calls on
the weekends and let's justtalk for an hour, and then you
(26:20):
guys talk on a saturday 5 pm,you have that one hour zoom call
and then after the zoom call islike, um, yeah, it went well,
let's uh, let's schedule anotherzoom call and then the next
zoom call is scheduled for thenext saturday at five o'clock
and you're just relying on thesezoom calls to assess
compatibility.
Get to know each other like it'sgonna fizzle out right, because
(26:40):
there's no reinforcement afterthe zoom call, because sometimes
there's this fire burning,there's this interest and and
desire excitement, right, andyou want to build off of that.
And we've seen cases with ourown clients where they there is
no follow-up, there is noinvestment, investment of time
and energy and things justfizzle out and then they come
(27:01):
back to us and can you findsomebody else?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
yeah, yeah right, but there's nothing wrong with zoom
calls I mean our entirecourting was over skype.
Right, but it's like thefrequency and the the quality of
the call is quality overquantity, yeah, but yeah.
But going back to my previouspoint, if you've been talking
for two months, for three months, let's say two months, okay,
(27:24):
and like you can't, I'm nottalking.
Okay, within two months youhave to decide I'm marrying them
or I'm moving on, but withintwo months you feel like we're
still in the same spot.
I still can't get anunderstanding of this person.
Do we have any level ofcompatibility or not?
If you can't have these basicthings after two months, then I
(27:47):
guess you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I mean the good, the question, the deeper questions
to be asking is what have youdone within those two months?
Exactly right what questionshave asked how much time has
been invested.
Have parents been involved atthat stage?
Yet If those elements aren'tthere within I would say two
months, then it's a huge redflag.
(28:09):
So some practical advice for youguys.
Number one there is no shame inwalking away.
If your intentions are clearfrom the get-go and you've set
the appropriate boundaries and,like you mentioned about that,
you know two months have beeninvested and things are not
moving along and you're justseeing constant red flags, then
yes, it's definitely appropriateto walk away.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, there's no, you should walk away.
You should walk away.
The sooner you walk away, thebetter.
Yeah, number two is ground theentire process in Islam, in our
deen.
Our deen encourages clarity andقولوا قولا سديدا.
In Surah Al-Ahzab Like saysomething clear, don't be
(28:54):
wishy-washy.
So yeah, be clear with yourwords, be clear with your
emotions, with your intentionsand number three involve family
sooner.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yes, there's no reason why two people should be
talking for two months andfamilies don't know how.
How quick did we involve ourparents?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I would say by week three ish well, depends what you
mean by involving them in termsof them talking to you, then
yes, so let me clarify.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So that's a good point.
Let me clarify that.
So both of our parents knewthat we were using um resources
and matrimony websites to try toget married.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Um, but um in my case , in your case, from the, the
very beginning, I told him I'mtalking to this guy.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yes, I didn't tell my parents that I found somebody.
I was talking to her because itwasn't necessary at that point,
because I didn't want to get myparents excited.
But I would say, closer to week, three of us talking and
courting, we were just like, yes, this is serious.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think it's time to involve parents I think your mom
was suspecting something,because you used to like go on
the balcony and like have theselong conversations.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, yeah, moms always know yeah, so, um, yes,
you should be involving parentssooner.
At least, at the bare minimum,let them know that you've, uh,
you're talking to somebody, um,and that you are applying
appropriate boundaries, andthings like that.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And once things like progress a little bit more,
you're going to introduce themto this person.
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I think we've addressed this in the parents
episode, but parents do need tohave a level of trust in their
children right, and when parentsespecially when parents put
that on matrimony websites I'msearching for my son, I'm
searching for my daughter itcomes across as, like you know,
you just don't trust yourchildren sometimes.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Or your children are just too busy, like we received
an email the other day from aparent.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, his daughter is like more than a week ago.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, yeah, his daughter was finishing up with I
don't know her master's orsomething, and she told them to
look for her because she doesn'thave time.
And we're like okay, inshallah,best of luck to your daughter.
When she's ready to look, wewould talk to her.
We would love to talk to her.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
At this point we want to ask you guys a question.
Some of you might have longertalking stages than actual
marriages.
Last and that's not good,because courting is not meant to
, we're not non-Muslims thatdate and date, and date forever
until we finally move in witheach other.
And then 20 years later werealize, hey, we're just common
(31:32):
law, we don't need to getmarried.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Halal common law Right.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Courting should be short, it should be with the
intention of marriage and itshould provide some sort of
substance and value.
So hopefully you guys can applysome of the things that we've
mentioned and um, and get somesort of value out of your
courting phase okay.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
So before we leave, you guys, what's the longest
talking stage you've ever had?
And, looking back, do you thinkit was worth it or not?
Really, how will you do itdifferently in your next
relationship?
Um, let us know.
You know how to do that.
Just leave a comment and,inshallah, we will see you in
the next one assalamu alaikum.
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