November 14, 2025 • 26 mins
Episode Summary
In this episode of "Did She Really Say That?", host Katrina van Oudheusden is joined by Katrina Kennedy, an accomplished trainer, speaker, and author. The focus of the discussion is Kennedy's revolutionary book, Learning that Lasts, and her approach to strengthening the way trainers and course designers facilitate learning. They delve into memorable techniques, the importance of engagement, and sharing authentic stories about the entrepreneurial journey.
Guest Bio
Katrina Kennedy
Known as "the trainer's trainer".
Over 25 years of experience in learning and development.
Facilitator, speaker, and author who focuses on cultivating enduring learning experiences.
Key Discussion Points
Introduction to Learning that Lasts: Katrina Kennedy introduces her new book which includes over 45 activities designed to create impactful learning experiences.
Reflective Learning Techniques: Kennedy shares "RNR"—retrieval and reflection—as a valuable tool to solidify learning.
Engagement in Course Creation: Discusses best practices for engaging learners, highlighting reflection as a key element.
Personal Journey and Entrepreneurial Insights: Insights on writing and marketing a book; the challenges and triumphs faced in asserting expertise.
The Importance of Collaboration and Support: Katrina emphasizes the necessity of asking for help and how community support plays a role in successful entrepreneurship.
Recommended Resources
Book: Learning that Lasts by Katrina Kennedy - A guide for trainers and designers to create engaging and memorable learning experiences.
LinkedIn: Follow Katrina Kennedy for more insights and updates on learning strategies.
Links & Resources
Thanks for listening! If you are enjoying our podcast, leave a comment below. We love hearing from our fans and other female entrepreneurs! We are collaborating to make business better for every woman! Feel free to share this podcast on your favorite social platform. And if you are listening on any of the podcast platforms, we would love it if you could post a 5-star review. Please, help us get our message out! Together, we discover how each woman has the power to unlock another woman when we are open about what we are redefining as women in business.
About Your Host: Katrina van Oudheusden
Former Chef at Walt Disney World® Resort, Restaurateur, Speaker, and CEO of Truth Bomb Marketing. Katrina is a sought-after consultant for small business growth among female entrepreneurs.
She created a revolutionary business training method called ‘CreatHER™ Business Rewire’. Weaving together time, money, and business growth by preventing burnout and strengthening female leadership skills.
Alongside the CreatHER™ Planner, women are finally experiencing less stress in all areas of their lives. When the focus begins with HERself, women discover a freedom to dream big, increase revenue, and design a marketing strategy that works for them.
CreatHer Money Revolution: http://creathersummit.com
Blog: https://truthbombmarketing.com/blog
CreatHER Planner: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-planner-2026
CreatHER Reset: http://truthbombmarketing.com/reset
CreatHER Business Rewire: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-business-rewire/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Well, welcome to this episode, ladies.
And did she really say that? And surprisingly, you've been
listening to all of our episodesand you're thinking, yes, there
are women on here that are really changing the world of
business that are doing things differently and challenging the
norm. And that's exactly why I brought
Katrina on here because not onlyis she has my name, actually, I
think I have her name. We don't we don't discuss that
(00:23):
anymore, but we're having fun with this.
And so we're brought her on because we have a way of
learning. And I think this is really
interesting that we tend to forget this as human beings.
We learn a very specific and certain way as children, and
then we evolved this. And what Katrina's brought to
the table is really how to have that lasting learning
experience, right? So learning that lasts because
(00:44):
how many of you have learned something and then forgotten it?
How many of you have heard something and forgotten it?
How many have done something once or twice, like put together
your web page and then totally forgot how you put it all
together and then can't rememberwhat you did?
Yes, I have hands raising all over the place.
So let me introduce you to Katrina.
Katrina is known as the trainer's trainer.
(01:06):
She is a facilitator, a speaker and an author with 25 plus
amazing years of experience in learning and development, right?
So when you have somebody that'sgot that many years of skill
set, what do we do? We become entrepreneurs, the
right? That's exactly what we do.
So Katrina has just recently launched her book, Learning That
Last, where she's helping thousands of on the subject
(01:27):
matter of designing and in delivering engaging learning
experience. How many Fe courses out there
that are like total flops? Snoozeville.
How many of you are training butfeel like nobody's engaging with
you? Yep, we're about to change that.
So, Katrina, thank you for beinghere on this show.
Let's dive into Learning That last.
(01:47):
Tell us about the book. Awesome.
Thanks Katrina for having me. It's kind of wild to have two
Katrinas in one space. But it's awesome.
It is absolutely so learning that last is a collection of
more than 45 reflection activities that are geared
towards trainers and designers of learning, but coaches people
(02:12):
anyone who wants to learn or remember something is going to
benefit from. And these are reflection
activities that you can use before you learn during learning
post learning to really help make it durable, make it stick,
keep it around for long term. And they're, and they're easy.
Like they're like, you could pick them up, do them right now
(02:35):
and help you remember. Because we've all had that
feeling, right, of walking into a room to get something.
And then you stand there and go,what am I here for?
Because our brains are are wiredto forget.
Like we have to actively do something in order for stuff to
stick. That makes sense.
(02:55):
So let's get a little teaser. I know the book just launched,
so let's give a little teaser oflike maybe one of the one of the
45. I mean, we're not going to give
away the whole book here, but let's like talk about one, maybe
two of those little things that helps us embed and use that that
sense of making our learning an actionable skill that lasts that
we continue to use. So one of my favorite activities
(03:17):
in it and one that I use personally all the time, whether
I'm doing a workshop or just want to remember something
myself. It's called R&R, so it's easy to
remember. It's unfortunately not rest and
relaxation, but it I've destroyed.
My hopes and dreams right there,I know.
I'm sorry, but you could do it while you're resting and
relaxing. OK, we'll take them.
(03:39):
It's called retrieval and reflect.
So the idea is that you think ofthree things that you can
remember from an experience. So let's say after this podcast,
I wanted to remember three things that you and I talked
about. I would write those three things
down. And then with each of those
three items, I would say this iswhere the reflection happens.
(04:00):
I would say, OK, well what do I want to do with that?
And I would write a specific action and that act of thinking
about it and writing about it isthe the critical piece to keep
it to making something durable. We're actually strengthening A
neural connection when we go through that.
(04:21):
That's why like I, I know this is dear to you.
I know that's like writing something down in a planner,
like physically writing can be helped so helpful because that
writing does help the remembering.
And I've heard of that throughout like history and in a
lot of the self development, when I, when we get into it,
it's the, the tangible, it's thetactile piece of it.
(04:41):
So getting it out of your head, writing it down actually does,
like you said, increases the neural pathway.
It strengthens our ability learn.
Do you feel that in this world where everyone's touching a
computer keyboard that we're kind of missing that?
I, I think so I think so like myfingers go faster.
I don't, I don't have to like process in the same way.
(05:02):
And interestingly enough, there's, there's research that
supports that so that, you know,getting the pencil or the pen
out, taking that time to pause and, and kind of critically
think is something that we couldeasily lose, but we can easily
like easily practice it too and bring it back into our
(05:23):
day-to-day life and remember those things that are most
important to us. Yeah, I always remember, like
whenever I was testing, I alwayswrote down what I didn't
remember. Like when you get the test back
and all the answers you get wrong, those tend to be the ones
I remember the most because I'm like, I forgot that kind of
thing. So like, you embed that into
your brain. So I was always looking at it's
like, not what I remembered, butwhat I didn't know was always
(05:45):
the one that stuck with me aftera test.
Absolutely, absolutely. And there's like, you know,
there's some novelty to the things that we get wrong that
help remember, there's some emotion connected to those and
that helps us as well. Those those are really kind of
key points to remembering something long term.
Yeah, and I, I work with a lot of women and a lot of
(06:06):
entrepreneurs that are in here that are course creators.
So they're always looking to create courses that engage.
And I think with what you're talking about with learning that
lasts is that get the book firstand foremost.
Ladies, just, I'm just going to say that right now because I, I
feel like if you have that and you're creating content or
you're creating actionable things, whether you're, you
(06:28):
know, doing a course or training, having and embedding
those skill sets inside the course, having them reflect on
things, having them do what Katrina says, you know, or some
of the activities, you know, andthere are activities like
learning should not be you speaking to them and expecting
them to get it. It is that engagement.
So talk a little bit about that engagement process.
(06:49):
Absolutely. So as course creators, the
tendency is to give people everything.
And we do it from this like verygiving altruistic place, but
we're also overwhelming people. So we serve people better in our
courses. If we start by asking them, you
(07:11):
know, what do you already know? Which is a reflection.
And not only is it a reflective practice, it boosts our
motivation because if I'm acknowledged that you as an
adult come to this, this experience already knowing
something, now you're, you're more engaged because like, Oh
yeah, I know this, but what elsecan I add?
(07:34):
And that gives you as the courseprovider some context to work
with. And then as we move through a
course, having those strategic pauses where we just ask, you
know, what's standing out for you, what's resonating with you?
Because we want to tie this, thecontent that we're sharing to
the context that somebody lives in.
(07:57):
That's what makes it stick. That's what makes it relevant.
And that's what makes somebody comes back, come back to your
course again because they reallysee the value.
And then we end and maybe even nudge after with, you know, what
is the thing you want to do? We often say like, what's the
key take away? Which is great, but we can go
further than that. Like what is it that you want to
(08:19):
do? How are you going to do it?
And when are you going to do it?Make it small, make it super
actionable so that people can then actually put it into
practice. Because life is like, as you
know too well, like life gives us a lot and we need to kind of
narrow things in order to be successful.
Well, I think you said somethingbrilliant too, is that, you
(08:41):
know, we need actionable steps. So it's not just the the
intaking of information, but it's the implementation of the
information. And I think, you know, you talk
about being the the known as thetrainer of the trainers.
There's a skill set of that. Like for those that are
listening in my and Katrina can totally tell me if I'm wrong for
this, but there's a sense of like when you train a trainer,
(09:04):
it's the same thing as being like a course creator or
somebody that's educating on something because it literally
is taking your skill set and transferring it onto another
person. And then those people have got
to go and teach somebody else. Right, Absolutely, absolutely.
But we have to acknowledge that people come with a set already.
So we're really like enhancing their set so that they can take
(09:27):
their stuff, add the direction we want to give and and now go
do it their way because people are going to do it their way
anyway, right? So just acknowledging that now
we have somebody who's more engaged in the process because
we've acknowledged them. So do you feel like whether it's
an employee that you're doing a train the trainer for or
(09:48):
somebody that's building a course, that if we have them
starting to take those actions, we get more engagement, we get
more stickiness, like they'll stay with us longer, like it's
an investment in your client andinto your employees.
Absolutely, absolutely. Because it it changes it from
here I am as the expert with allof this knowledge to here I am
(10:12):
as your partner and I am here tosee you succeed.
You know, I can go watch a million videos and have people
tell me all their wisdom. I, I want to know that you're
here with me. I want to know that like I've
got somebody supporting me. Yeah, because that's the whole
piece behind it, right? And education is boring unless
there's somebody that feels likethey're on the journey with you.
(10:34):
I mean, that's the key behind it.
So let's talk a little bit. So for the everyone, definitely
get the book, but I also wanted to dive into the business side
of this for you, Katrina. So you have written this book.
So what was that creative process like of bringing and
birthing, I guess, this book to life?
Wow. So I think the IT was a long
(10:56):
process, first of all, like it was something that I had to kind
of I had to confront some of my demons about, you know, who am I
to write this book? It's I've I've written three
books. They've never seen anything
beyond my hard drive and. Yeah.
I mean, all my listeners out there, ladies, gentlemen, how
(11:16):
many of you can resonate with that?
Just checking in with you, right?
And so it it took finally askingfor help, which, you know, we're
not always so good at. And once I asked for help, once
I said, this is the thing I wantto do, this fabulously cool
(11:41):
thing happened that help showed up.
You know, we always say that andit feels like such a platitude,
but it really did happen. I, I reached out to a publisher.
I wanted to do this traditionally for, you know, a,
a few reasons and, and they werevery open to it and very
(12:01):
supportive. And so I started, I was under
contract about a year and a halfago.
And so every part of my life became writing the book, every
nook cranny, you know, you name the moment and it was all book
focused And and then, you know, there's writing the book and
(12:24):
then there's marketing the book,which is a whole new set of
skills that I had to learn. Writing was easy.
I mean, I don't want to diminishthat writing is also hard, but I
I really enjoy the writing part.I enjoyed that like process and
thinking and kind of coming up with what I really believed in
the which happened so, so much easier I think through writing,
(12:47):
at least for me, but then the whole marketing piece, which is
going on while you're writing and then you know, will
continue. That was a whole new set of
skills for me. I've, I've been an entrepreneur
for 28 years, but asking people to, to bring me into their
(13:09):
organization for a class is verydifferent than like, here's
support my book, say good thingsabout my book, review my book on
Amazon. So that learning was really
supported by a lot of people whovery generously gave me their
wisdom and, and shared their experiences.
(13:31):
And I'm, I'm still learning. I'm still figuring it out.
Well, and I love that you said because there is.
I want to just kind of touch back on the writing of the book.
So you contracted a year and a half ago for this book.
And yet when I hear like nooks and crannies in my brain, I'm
like, oh good gosh. Like was there at least a format
or some guidance in like how this book came together from the
(13:51):
help that you received around this?
Yeah, so I, I received the, the guidance early on to create
buckets of, of like, you know, find your buckets and, and this
works for workshops, this works for books as well.
Like what are the, the key things you want to say?
And, and for me, I knew that this was going to be an activity
(14:12):
based book. So I knew that the buckets had
to be about outcomes. So they're 8 outcomes.
And I said, you know, here are the 8:00 and then it was almost
like writing eight separate workbooks or 8 separate, you
know, ebooks, if you will, that could then come together and
(14:34):
find the flow between them. But starting with those buckets
and having that clear idea of like, here's where I'm going to
go. Here are the 8 outcomes.
And then, you know, we've got tointroduce it, got to show people
how. And then I I worked forever on a
chapter on why to reflect and finally decided like, that
(14:56):
chapter's just not working. And so I threw it away and it
just got woven into all of the chapters.
It's sometimes that's the best alternative for that, right?
Like you work through the process and you're like, this
doesn't fit here, so where else might it go?
So it becomes a weave in. So that's beautiful.
I love that. Yeah, it was not and it not easy
to get there. I rewrote it three times and
(15:17):
just didn't like it and kept thinking, like, why am I
fighting this? And so it was like this
epiphanal moment when I realized, like, just throw it
away. Just get ready for it.
Throw it away, start all over again or get yeah.
And that's perfect. So let's talk then about.
All right, the book is written. You've got a team behind you and
like you said, you're like, you're now asking to become the
(15:38):
expert 'cause that's really whatyou, this book showcases you as
is the expert around this topic,this skill set that you're
bringing to the table. So what has it been like to
really go in there and now be the expert through this book,
through this process of writing?What's that been like for you?
(15:58):
It's been a bit surreal and a bit really fun.
So the book, because it's about reflection, the natural piece
and the piece that I'm really loving is to do closing keynotes
for conferences around reflection.
So literally having people reflect on their experience and,
(16:21):
you know, looking back over, over conferences.
So I've, I've, this has been themonth of conferences.
It's been the month of closing them in that way, and it's been
really delightful. It's been delightful to see
people resonate with the idea. It's been weird to have a few
(16:42):
people come to me and kind of, and they've, they've used this
word, this is not mine. They've said I'm fangirling,
which like, well, I'm just I'm. I'm just a person like.
I'm just a person, right? Yep, that's definitely.
I love kind of how you are have brought this all together
because it is kind of like a reflection.
(17:04):
So the closing out of conferences has got to be a huge
win. Like just to be able to be there
and have them reflecting, to know that that's the expert
behind this. I will say that I've had that
experience too, where I've had people come up to me like, Oh my
God. And I'm like, yeah, hi.
You know, like it's surreal, butit's also kind of a, a knot or a
(17:26):
hat tip to you and just what you're bringing into the world
and what you've gifted the worldthrough your expertise, through
your guidance, through your knowledge, your 25 years of, of
education and skill set that have really birthed this book in
this process and in giving it and showing up in such a way
that has people really start thinking again.
(17:47):
And I think in a lot of respects, that's what people
want. They want to start thinking
again. It's like they're waking up into
this world all over again. So marketing the book.
So you are now in that launch phase at the time of this
recording. And so what's it been like for
for the launch? The launch has been probably the
(18:09):
most, I'm just going to say it this way because this is how I
keep saying at my house, it has been the most unpaid work I've
ever done at any one time. Amen.
Amen to that. That is a true, 100% true
statement. It is definitely the unpaid work
of everything that you're going through right now.
(18:30):
Yeah, and, and but the the the wild thing is I've really
enjoyed it most of the time. You know, I took on the
challenge. I decided that I was like,
people need to know you if you launch a book, right?
So I decided back in June that Iwas going to post every single
day on LinkedIn. And I have done that every every
(18:52):
single day since June. And I've seen my followers grow
substantially because of that. I've put some systems into place
because of the launch that I think I did not have in my
business before. So, you know, scheduling time to
write in a more consistent way, scheduling time to reach out to
(19:14):
clients, you know, just really having not more rigidity, but
more systems. So that I am, I'm checking the
important boxes. Definitely kind of a cool thing
that I didn't expect is having more people reach out to me for
(19:34):
podcasts and webinars and things.
So, you know, managing that has been fun meeting lots of new
people. I think that was really
unexpected as part of the marketing goes and you know,
and, and also realizing that there's this idea, I think when
it with books that, you know, launch day is everything.
(19:56):
And my launch day had to get moved for a variety of reasons,
which then changed my whole strategy that we had put in
place. And it made me step back and
realize that launch day is a day.
And, and the book, like so many things that we do in business,
is a long game. It is a long term thing.
(20:17):
It is not a one day, it is not aone week.
And that's that's really changing how I'm how I'm.
Scheduling my days and how I'm using my energy.
Otherwise I would be just exhausted if I put it all into
one day. Well, and I like how you say it
too, 'cause I think we get caught up on as women,
specifically of, of like this isthe one day.
This is when this is happening. And then it like it, it goes,
(20:41):
right? We talk about like, you know,
celebrating your achievement, celebrating what you've
accomplished as a woman. And sometimes it's so fleeting.
We're like launch day and then we're like and moving on to the
next thing. So I like where you kind of
said, and I'm asking you women to reflect on this using
Katrina's words and look at how many times you've launched or
put something newly out and thenfelt like that was it and done.
(21:05):
Like there's still this idea, idea that this continues.
It's not just a moment in time. It's like the continuation.
It's like, let's put it this way, you gave birth to a kid.
There was the time period beforethat child was ever put into
this world. And then there's the time period
when the child gets into this world.
Like welcome to the world of business.
It has the same thing. There's like what's happening in
(21:25):
utero. Then there's what happens today,
gets like put out into the worldand now you're going to
basically be nurturing this for the rest of your life.
So congratulations. There you go.
There you go. Yeah.
All right. So we're we're going to get the
book. So this podcast really is about
making bold statements. I mean, did she really say that
as part of this? Right.
And you've made some great comments around just, you know,
(21:49):
activities, taking on your marketing, writing a book.
There are things that she said that you probably thinking,
gosh, she really did say that. So have you ever come across a
client or a organization or something where you've said
something and they have all kindof leaned back looking and go,
did she just really say? That.
(22:10):
Oh, yeah. So, you know, I'm in learning
and development, which is an amazing field to be in.
And I get called in to organizations from time to time
and they, you know, want me. You know that that's a standard
thing. Can you do this training by next
(22:32):
week? And this is our budget.
And I have sometimes said, no, Nope, this is not the answer.
This is not a training issue. You have an organizational
issue. Yeah.
And they don't expect that. They don't expect that, You
know, like, let's just be 1 and done.
Get it off my checklist. But, you know, if we want our
(22:54):
organizations to grow, we've gotto be able to ask the tough
questions and we've got to be able to say the tough things.
And sometimes that is, is absolutely no, I can't do that.
But we could do this. And there's some straight talk
of, Oh my God, did she really say that?
Because if you guys were watching the video, you would
have seen my expression when shesaid it's not a training
(23:14):
problem, it's an organizational problem.
And you're like, Oh my God, she just said that out loud on the
podcast. And I have a feeling some of you
heard that out there also. So I, I mean, we are wrapping
up. This has been great.
So what's next for Katrina? The book is out there.
What does the next 6 to 12 months look like for Katrina
Business and and what you're building?
(23:38):
Some of that is to be determined, which is kind of
exciting. Yeah.
And and I met a place where I get to kind of have some fun
with that. I'm going to do some play.
I'm going to launch in around December a reflection class for
individuals to take part in to just do your own reflection
(23:59):
through the year with some actionable connection to that.
And then into next year I've gotsome conference closing keynotes
again, which is exciting and hope to do more of those.
And then probably another book Igot to do something with all
(24:21):
these skills. I'm telling you Rocket and share
it and then help others to do the same thing.
So for those that are listening in our audience at the time of
where you're listening, there isa good chance that Katrina's of
course, that self reflection is available.
So if you do and you're on here,the links will be down in the
show notes. Definitely the link for her
book. You're going to want to grab
(24:41):
your that right now and say, hey, this is I definitely want,
you know, learning that last, nomatter where you're at in your
business, This is a skill set that I think every one of us as
an entrepreneur needs to dive into.
So don't let this just sit on the table.
Don't let this just be somethingyou listen.
My question is reflects share what your biggest takeaways and
(25:04):
what you learned from this podcast with Katrina in are
shown in the notes down below inthe comments down below, not the
notes, the comments and let's, you know, continue to connect
because this is absolutely brilliant.
So Katrina, any last words of wisdom for women that are
listening, that are out there, that are contemplating writing a
book or just want to do better courses and training out there?
(25:25):
I I think take that time to pause, identify what it is that
you really like, that one thing that you want people or you to
take away and and then decide the next action that connects to
that. I love it.
Well, thank you for your time, Katrina today.
Thank you for being on. Did she really say that?
(25:46):
Ladies, gentlemen, ladies mostly.
Grab the book, grab the notes, follow Katrina definitely on
LinkedIn. She's amazing over there.
She's in a great sense of humor and wet.
Oh my God. When we first met, she was
tagging me on some crazy posts when we were having so much fun
commenting back and forth. So definitely connect with her.
You're going to learn a lot fromher.
(26:06):
If you're looking for a keynote speaker for any events that
you're hosting, reach out to Katrina.
And I just say, you know, connect, learn and celebrate
each other. As women, we have the largest
voice out there. And then when we support each
other and collaborate, we make amazing things.
So thanks again for being here and ladies in the audience.
We'll see you on the next episode.
Well, welcome to this episode, ladies.
And did she really say that? And surprisingly, you've been
listening to all of our episodesand you're thinking, yes, there
are women on here that are really changing the world of
business that are doing things differently and challenging the
norm. And that's exactly why I brought
Katrina on here because not onlyis she has my name, actually, I
think I have her name. We don't we don't discuss that
(00:23):
anymore, but we're having fun with this.
And so we're brought her on because we have a way of
learning. And I think this is really
interesting that we tend to forget this as human beings.
We learn a very specific and certain way as children, and
then we evolved this. And what Katrina's brought to
the table is really how to have that lasting learning
experience, right? So learning that lasts because
(00:44):
how many of you have learned something and then forgotten it?
How many of you have heard something and forgotten it?
How many have done something once or twice, like put together
your web page and then totally forgot how you put it all
together and then can't rememberwhat you did?
Yes, I have hands raising all over the place.
So let me introduce you to Katrina.
Katrina is known as the trainer's trainer.
(01:06):
She is a facilitator, a speaker and an author with 25 plus
amazing years of experience in learning and development, right?
So when you have somebody that'sgot that many years of skill
set, what do we do? We become entrepreneurs, the
right? That's exactly what we do.
So Katrina has just recently launched her book, Learning That
Last, where she's helping thousands of on the subject
(01:27):
matter of designing and in delivering engaging learning
experience. How many Fe courses out there
that are like total flops? Snoozeville.
How many of you are training butfeel like nobody's engaging with
you? Yep, we're about to change that.
So, Katrina, thank you for beinghere on this show.
Let's dive into Learning That last.
(01:47):
Tell us about the book. Awesome.
Thanks Katrina for having me. It's kind of wild to have two
Katrinas in one space. But it's awesome.
It is absolutely so learning that last is a collection of
more than 45 reflection activities that are geared
towards trainers and designers of learning, but coaches people
(02:12):
anyone who wants to learn or remember something is going to
benefit from. And these are reflection
activities that you can use before you learn during learning
post learning to really help make it durable, make it stick,
keep it around for long term. And they're, and they're easy.
Like they're like, you could pick them up, do them right now
(02:35):
and help you remember. Because we've all had that
feeling, right, of walking into a room to get something.
And then you stand there and go,what am I here for?
Because our brains are are wiredto forget.
Like we have to actively do something in order for stuff to
stick. That makes sense.
(02:55):
So let's get a little teaser. I know the book just launched,
so let's give a little teaser oflike maybe one of the one of the
45. I mean, we're not going to give
away the whole book here, but let's like talk about one, maybe
two of those little things that helps us embed and use that that
sense of making our learning an actionable skill that lasts that
we continue to use. So one of my favorite activities
(03:17):
in it and one that I use personally all the time, whether
I'm doing a workshop or just want to remember something
myself. It's called R&R, so it's easy to
remember. It's unfortunately not rest and
relaxation, but it I've destroyed.
My hopes and dreams right there,I know.
I'm sorry, but you could do it while you're resting and
relaxing. OK, we'll take them.
(03:39):
It's called retrieval and reflect.
So the idea is that you think ofthree things that you can
remember from an experience. So let's say after this podcast,
I wanted to remember three things that you and I talked
about. I would write those three things
down. And then with each of those
three items, I would say this iswhere the reflection happens.
(04:00):
I would say, OK, well what do I want to do with that?
And I would write a specific action and that act of thinking
about it and writing about it isthe the critical piece to keep
it to making something durable. We're actually strengthening A
neural connection when we go through that.
(04:21):
That's why like I, I know this is dear to you.
I know that's like writing something down in a planner,
like physically writing can be helped so helpful because that
writing does help the remembering.
And I've heard of that throughout like history and in a
lot of the self development, when I, when we get into it,
it's the, the tangible, it's thetactile piece of it.
(04:41):
So getting it out of your head, writing it down actually does,
like you said, increases the neural pathway.
It strengthens our ability learn.
Do you feel that in this world where everyone's touching a
computer keyboard that we're kind of missing that?
I, I think so I think so like myfingers go faster.
I don't, I don't have to like process in the same way.
(05:02):
And interestingly enough, there's, there's research that
supports that so that, you know,getting the pencil or the pen
out, taking that time to pause and, and kind of critically
think is something that we couldeasily lose, but we can easily
like easily practice it too and bring it back into our
(05:23):
day-to-day life and remember those things that are most
important to us. Yeah, I always remember, like
whenever I was testing, I alwayswrote down what I didn't
remember. Like when you get the test back
and all the answers you get wrong, those tend to be the ones
I remember the most because I'm like, I forgot that kind of
thing. So like, you embed that into
your brain. So I was always looking at it's
like, not what I remembered, butwhat I didn't know was always
(05:45):
the one that stuck with me aftera test.
Absolutely, absolutely. And there's like, you know,
there's some novelty to the things that we get wrong that
help remember, there's some emotion connected to those and
that helps us as well. Those those are really kind of
key points to remembering something long term.
Yeah, and I, I work with a lot of women and a lot of
(06:06):
entrepreneurs that are in here that are course creators.
So they're always looking to create courses that engage.
And I think with what you're talking about with learning that
lasts is that get the book firstand foremost.
Ladies, just, I'm just going to say that right now because I, I
feel like if you have that and you're creating content or
you're creating actionable things, whether you're, you
(06:28):
know, doing a course or training, having and embedding
those skill sets inside the course, having them reflect on
things, having them do what Katrina says, you know, or some
of the activities, you know, andthere are activities like
learning should not be you speaking to them and expecting
them to get it. It is that engagement.
So talk a little bit about that engagement process.
(06:49):
Absolutely. So as course creators, the
tendency is to give people everything.
And we do it from this like verygiving altruistic place, but
we're also overwhelming people. So we serve people better in our
courses. If we start by asking them, you
(07:11):
know, what do you already know? Which is a reflection.
And not only is it a reflective practice, it boosts our
motivation because if I'm acknowledged that you as an
adult come to this, this experience already knowing
something, now you're, you're more engaged because like, Oh
yeah, I know this, but what elsecan I add?
(07:34):
And that gives you as the courseprovider some context to work
with. And then as we move through a
course, having those strategic pauses where we just ask, you
know, what's standing out for you, what's resonating with you?
Because we want to tie this, thecontent that we're sharing to
the context that somebody lives in.
(07:57):
That's what makes it stick. That's what makes it relevant.
And that's what makes somebody comes back, come back to your
course again because they reallysee the value.
And then we end and maybe even nudge after with, you know, what
is the thing you want to do? We often say like, what's the
key take away? Which is great, but we can go
further than that. Like what is it that you want to
(08:19):
do? How are you going to do it?
And when are you going to do it?Make it small, make it super
actionable so that people can then actually put it into
practice. Because life is like, as you
know too well, like life gives us a lot and we need to kind of
narrow things in order to be successful.
Well, I think you said somethingbrilliant too, is that, you
(08:41):
know, we need actionable steps. So it's not just the the
intaking of information, but it's the implementation of the
information. And I think, you know, you talk
about being the the known as thetrainer of the trainers.
There's a skill set of that. Like for those that are
listening in my and Katrina can totally tell me if I'm wrong for
this, but there's a sense of like when you train a trainer,
(09:04):
it's the same thing as being like a course creator or
somebody that's educating on something because it literally
is taking your skill set and transferring it onto another
person. And then those people have got
to go and teach somebody else. Right, Absolutely, absolutely.
But we have to acknowledge that people come with a set already.
So we're really like enhancing their set so that they can take
(09:27):
their stuff, add the direction we want to give and and now go
do it their way because people are going to do it their way
anyway, right? So just acknowledging that now
we have somebody who's more engaged in the process because
we've acknowledged them. So do you feel like whether it's
an employee that you're doing a train the trainer for or
(09:48):
somebody that's building a course, that if we have them
starting to take those actions, we get more engagement, we get
more stickiness, like they'll stay with us longer, like it's
an investment in your client andinto your employees.
Absolutely, absolutely. Because it it changes it from
here I am as the expert with allof this knowledge to here I am
(10:12):
as your partner and I am here tosee you succeed.
You know, I can go watch a million videos and have people
tell me all their wisdom. I, I want to know that you're
here with me. I want to know that like I've
got somebody supporting me. Yeah, because that's the whole
piece behind it, right? And education is boring unless
there's somebody that feels likethey're on the journey with you.
(10:34):
I mean, that's the key behind it.
So let's talk a little bit. So for the everyone, definitely
get the book, but I also wanted to dive into the business side
of this for you, Katrina. So you have written this book.
So what was that creative process like of bringing and
birthing, I guess, this book to life?
Wow. So I think the IT was a long
(10:56):
process, first of all, like it was something that I had to kind
of I had to confront some of my demons about, you know, who am I
to write this book? It's I've I've written three
books. They've never seen anything
beyond my hard drive and. Yeah.
I mean, all my listeners out there, ladies, gentlemen, how
(11:16):
many of you can resonate with that?
Just checking in with you, right?
And so it it took finally askingfor help, which, you know, we're
not always so good at. And once I asked for help, once
I said, this is the thing I wantto do, this fabulously cool
(11:41):
thing happened that help showed up.
You know, we always say that andit feels like such a platitude,
but it really did happen. I, I reached out to a publisher.
I wanted to do this traditionally for, you know, a,
a few reasons and, and they werevery open to it and very
(12:01):
supportive. And so I started, I was under
contract about a year and a halfago.
And so every part of my life became writing the book, every
nook cranny, you know, you name the moment and it was all book
focused And and then, you know, there's writing the book and
(12:24):
then there's marketing the book,which is a whole new set of
skills that I had to learn. Writing was easy.
I mean, I don't want to diminishthat writing is also hard, but I
I really enjoy the writing part.I enjoyed that like process and
thinking and kind of coming up with what I really believed in
the which happened so, so much easier I think through writing,
(12:47):
at least for me, but then the whole marketing piece, which is
going on while you're writing and then you know, will
continue. That was a whole new set of
skills for me. I've, I've been an entrepreneur
for 28 years, but asking people to, to bring me into their
(13:09):
organization for a class is verydifferent than like, here's
support my book, say good thingsabout my book, review my book on
Amazon. So that learning was really
supported by a lot of people whovery generously gave me their
wisdom and, and shared their experiences.
(13:31):
And I'm, I'm still learning. I'm still figuring it out.
Well, and I love that you said because there is.
I want to just kind of touch back on the writing of the book.
So you contracted a year and a half ago for this book.
And yet when I hear like nooks and crannies in my brain, I'm
like, oh good gosh. Like was there at least a format
or some guidance in like how this book came together from the
(13:51):
help that you received around this?
Yeah, so I, I received the, the guidance early on to create
buckets of, of like, you know, find your buckets and, and this
works for workshops, this works for books as well.
Like what are the, the key things you want to say?
And, and for me, I knew that this was going to be an activity
(14:12):
based book. So I knew that the buckets had
to be about outcomes. So they're 8 outcomes.
And I said, you know, here are the 8:00 and then it was almost
like writing eight separate workbooks or 8 separate, you
know, ebooks, if you will, that could then come together and
(14:34):
find the flow between them. But starting with those buckets
and having that clear idea of like, here's where I'm going to
go. Here are the 8 outcomes.
And then, you know, we've got tointroduce it, got to show people
how. And then I I worked forever on a
chapter on why to reflect and finally decided like, that
(14:56):
chapter's just not working. And so I threw it away and it
just got woven into all of the chapters.
It's sometimes that's the best alternative for that, right?
Like you work through the process and you're like, this
doesn't fit here, so where else might it go?
So it becomes a weave in. So that's beautiful.
I love that. Yeah, it was not and it not easy
to get there. I rewrote it three times and
(15:17):
just didn't like it and kept thinking, like, why am I
fighting this? And so it was like this
epiphanal moment when I realized, like, just throw it
away. Just get ready for it.
Throw it away, start all over again or get yeah.
And that's perfect. So let's talk then about.
All right, the book is written. You've got a team behind you and
like you said, you're like, you're now asking to become the
(15:38):
expert 'cause that's really whatyou, this book showcases you as
is the expert around this topic,this skill set that you're
bringing to the table. So what has it been like to
really go in there and now be the expert through this book,
through this process of writing?What's that been like for you?
(15:58):
It's been a bit surreal and a bit really fun.
So the book, because it's about reflection, the natural piece
and the piece that I'm really loving is to do closing keynotes
for conferences around reflection.
So literally having people reflect on their experience and,
(16:21):
you know, looking back over, over conferences.
So I've, I've, this has been themonth of conferences.
It's been the month of closing them in that way, and it's been
really delightful. It's been delightful to see
people resonate with the idea. It's been weird to have a few
(16:42):
people come to me and kind of, and they've, they've used this
word, this is not mine. They've said I'm fangirling,
which like, well, I'm just I'm. I'm just a person like.
I'm just a person, right? Yep, that's definitely.
I love kind of how you are have brought this all together
because it is kind of like a reflection.
(17:04):
So the closing out of conferences has got to be a huge
win. Like just to be able to be there
and have them reflecting, to know that that's the expert
behind this. I will say that I've had that
experience too, where I've had people come up to me like, Oh my
God. And I'm like, yeah, hi.
You know, like it's surreal, butit's also kind of a, a knot or a
(17:26):
hat tip to you and just what you're bringing into the world
and what you've gifted the worldthrough your expertise, through
your guidance, through your knowledge, your 25 years of, of
education and skill set that have really birthed this book in
this process and in giving it and showing up in such a way
that has people really start thinking again.
(17:47):
And I think in a lot of respects, that's what people
want. They want to start thinking
again. It's like they're waking up into
this world all over again. So marketing the book.
So you are now in that launch phase at the time of this
recording. And so what's it been like for
for the launch? The launch has been probably the
(18:09):
most, I'm just going to say it this way because this is how I
keep saying at my house, it has been the most unpaid work I've
ever done at any one time. Amen.
Amen to that. That is a true, 100% true
statement. It is definitely the unpaid work
of everything that you're going through right now.
(18:30):
Yeah, and, and but the the the wild thing is I've really
enjoyed it most of the time. You know, I took on the
challenge. I decided that I was like,
people need to know you if you launch a book, right?
So I decided back in June that Iwas going to post every single
day on LinkedIn. And I have done that every every
(18:52):
single day since June. And I've seen my followers grow
substantially because of that. I've put some systems into place
because of the launch that I think I did not have in my
business before. So, you know, scheduling time to
write in a more consistent way, scheduling time to reach out to
(19:14):
clients, you know, just really having not more rigidity, but
more systems. So that I am, I'm checking the
important boxes. Definitely kind of a cool thing
that I didn't expect is having more people reach out to me for
(19:34):
podcasts and webinars and things.
So, you know, managing that has been fun meeting lots of new
people. I think that was really
unexpected as part of the marketing goes and you know,
and, and also realizing that there's this idea, I think when
it with books that, you know, launch day is everything.
(19:56):
And my launch day had to get moved for a variety of reasons,
which then changed my whole strategy that we had put in
place. And it made me step back and
realize that launch day is a day.
And, and the book, like so many things that we do in business,
is a long game. It is a long term thing.
(20:17):
It is not a one day, it is not aone week.
And that's that's really changing how I'm how I'm.
Scheduling my days and how I'm using my energy.
Otherwise I would be just exhausted if I put it all into
one day. Well, and I like how you say it
too, 'cause I think we get caught up on as women,
specifically of, of like this isthe one day.
This is when this is happening. And then it like it, it goes,
(20:41):
right? We talk about like, you know,
celebrating your achievement, celebrating what you've
accomplished as a woman. And sometimes it's so fleeting.
We're like launch day and then we're like and moving on to the
next thing. So I like where you kind of
said, and I'm asking you women to reflect on this using
Katrina's words and look at how many times you've launched or
put something newly out and thenfelt like that was it and done.
(21:05):
Like there's still this idea, idea that this continues.
It's not just a moment in time. It's like the continuation.
It's like, let's put it this way, you gave birth to a kid.
There was the time period beforethat child was ever put into
this world. And then there's the time period
when the child gets into this world.
Like welcome to the world of business.
It has the same thing. There's like what's happening in
(21:25):
utero. Then there's what happens today,
gets like put out into the worldand now you're going to
basically be nurturing this for the rest of your life.
So congratulations. There you go.
There you go. Yeah.
All right. So we're we're going to get the
book. So this podcast really is about
making bold statements. I mean, did she really say that
as part of this? Right.
And you've made some great comments around just, you know,
(21:49):
activities, taking on your marketing, writing a book.
There are things that she said that you probably thinking,
gosh, she really did say that. So have you ever come across a
client or a organization or something where you've said
something and they have all kindof leaned back looking and go,
did she just really say? That.
(22:10):
Oh, yeah. So, you know, I'm in learning
and development, which is an amazing field to be in.
And I get called in to organizations from time to time
and they, you know, want me. You know that that's a standard
thing. Can you do this training by next
(22:32):
week? And this is our budget.
And I have sometimes said, no, Nope, this is not the answer.
This is not a training issue. You have an organizational
issue. Yeah.
And they don't expect that. They don't expect that, You
know, like, let's just be 1 and done.
Get it off my checklist. But, you know, if we want our
(22:54):
organizations to grow, we've gotto be able to ask the tough
questions and we've got to be able to say the tough things.
And sometimes that is, is absolutely no, I can't do that.
But we could do this. And there's some straight talk
of, Oh my God, did she really say that?
Because if you guys were watching the video, you would
have seen my expression when shesaid it's not a training
(23:14):
problem, it's an organizational problem.
And you're like, Oh my God, she just said that out loud on the
podcast. And I have a feeling some of you
heard that out there also. So I, I mean, we are wrapping
up. This has been great.
So what's next for Katrina? The book is out there.
What does the next 6 to 12 months look like for Katrina
Business and and what you're building?
(23:38):
Some of that is to be determined, which is kind of
exciting. Yeah.
And and I met a place where I get to kind of have some fun
with that. I'm going to do some play.
I'm going to launch in around December a reflection class for
individuals to take part in to just do your own reflection
(23:59):
through the year with some actionable connection to that.
And then into next year I've gotsome conference closing keynotes
again, which is exciting and hope to do more of those.
And then probably another book Igot to do something with all
(24:21):
these skills. I'm telling you Rocket and share
it and then help others to do the same thing.
So for those that are listening in our audience at the time of
where you're listening, there isa good chance that Katrina's of
course, that self reflection is available.
So if you do and you're on here,the links will be down in the
show notes. Definitely the link for her
book. You're going to want to grab
(24:41):
your that right now and say, hey, this is I definitely want,
you know, learning that last, nomatter where you're at in your
business, This is a skill set that I think every one of us as
an entrepreneur needs to dive into.
So don't let this just sit on the table.
Don't let this just be somethingyou listen.
My question is reflects share what your biggest takeaways and
(25:04):
what you learned from this podcast with Katrina in are
shown in the notes down below inthe comments down below, not the
notes, the comments and let's, you know, continue to connect
because this is absolutely brilliant.
So Katrina, any last words of wisdom for women that are
listening, that are out there, that are contemplating writing a
book or just want to do better courses and training out there?
(25:25):
I I think take that time to pause, identify what it is that
you really like, that one thing that you want people or you to
take away and and then decide the next action that connects to
that. I love it.
Well, thank you for your time, Katrina today.
Thank you for being on. Did she really say that?
(25:46):
Ladies, gentlemen, ladies mostly.
Grab the book, grab the notes, follow Katrina definitely on
LinkedIn. She's amazing over there.
She's in a great sense of humor and wet.
Oh my God. When we first met, she was
tagging me on some crazy posts when we were having so much fun
commenting back and forth. So definitely connect with her.
You're going to learn a lot fromher.
(26:06):
If you're looking for a keynote speaker for any events that
you're hosting, reach out to Katrina.
And I just say, you know, connect, learn and celebrate
each other. As women, we have the largest
voice out there. And then when we support each
other and collaborate, we make amazing things.
So thanks again for being here and ladies in the audience.
We'll see you on the next episode.
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