November 26, 2025 • 39 mins
Episode Summary
In this thought-provoking episode of "Did She Really Say That?", host Katrina van Oudheusden welcomes Dr. Julie Pham, a respected entrepreneur and thought leader in organizational development. They delve deeply into the concepts of respect, curiosity in entrepreneurship, and the importance of maintaining one's energy and boundaries as a woman in business. Julie shares valuable insights from her journey, offering listeners practical advice and strategies to navigate their entrepreneurial paths more effectively.
Key Discussion Points
Respect and Curiosity in Business: Dr. Julie Pham shares her unique view on how practicing curiosity is foundational for building respectful relationships in both personal and business contexts.
Real Life Education vs. Formal Education: An engaging debate on the value of real-world experience compared to traditional academic learning.
Managing Energy, Not Time: Julie emphasizes focusing on activities that energize rather than drain, advocating for delegating tasks that do not spark joy.
Rubber Band Rule: Julie introduces her "Rubber Band Rule" concept, illustrating the importance of knowing personal breaking points in professional relationships.
Entrepreneurship Stages: Discussion on how both businesses and personal entrepreneurial journeys evolve through different stages, mirroring human development processes.
Respect as a Personalized Concept: The importance of understanding and defining respect according to individual perspectives and experiences.
Guest Bio
Dr. Julie Pham A Vietnamese refugee and former academic turned entrepreneur, Dr. Julie Pham has a wealth of experience running her family's newspaper business and working in the tech industry before founding Curiosity Based. Her work focuses on fostering environments where curiosity can thrive, particularly within organizational structures. Julie is also an author, and her latest work, "Seven Forms of Respect," explores how respect can be differently understood and applied across cultures.
Recommended Resources and Links
Curiosity Based
Visit curiositybased.com for more resources.
Access the free "Seven Forms of Respect" crash course to enhance your approach to difficult conversations.
Dr. Julie Pham's Book
"Seven Forms of Respect" — Explore various respect models and how these can be integrated into personal and professional lives.
Thanks for listening! If you are enjoying our podcast, leave a comment below. We love hearing from our fans and other female entrepreneurs! We are collaborating to make business better for every woman! Feel free to share this podcast on your favorite social platform. And if you are listening on any of the podcast platforms, we would love it if you could post a 5-star review. Please, help us get our message out! Together, we discover how each woman has the power to unlock another woman when we are open about what we are redefining as women in business.
About Your Host: Katrina van Oudheusden
Former Chef at Walt Disney World® Resort, Restaurateur, Speaker, and CEO of Truth Bomb Marketing. Katrina is a sought-after consultant for small business growth among female entrepreneurs.
She created a revolutionary business training method called ‘CreatHER™ Business Rewire’. Weaving together time, money, and business growth by preventing burnout and strengthening female leadership skills.
Alongside the CreatHER™ Planner, women are finally experiencing less stress in all areas of their lives. When the focus begins with HERself, women discover a freedom to dream big, increase revenue, and design a marketing strategy that works for them.
CreatHer Money Revolution: http://creathersummit.com
Blog: https://truthbombmarketing.com/blog
CreatHER Planner: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-planner-2026
CreatHER Reset: http://truthbombmarketing.com/reset
CreatHER Business Rewire: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-business-rewire
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
But welcome to this episode of Did She Really Say That?
And I promise you, Doctor Julie Fem is going to have you saying
this a lot because we're talkingabout respect.
And it's so important as we're developing ourselves as
entrepreneurs and as women in business, one of the things that
we're always asking for is to berespected.
Then we want to be respectful. And so there is going to be some
(00:25):
interesting conversation around this.
But I am excited for this conversation.
Julie, do I call you Doctor? Julie, do you want me?
For me, call me Julie, call. Me just call you Julie.
We're just going to call her Julie ladies.
So I'm excited to have you. So let's share a little bit
about your background and how you got into respect.
All right, so my background is Ihave to, I have to start with,
(00:46):
I'm a Vietnamese refugee. My parents are the first
Vietnamese language newspaper inthe Pacific Northwest.
And I grew up with that newspaper.
I thought I was going to be an academic, so I trained as a
historian and then I decided to leave academia and I came back
to Seattle in 2008 to help run my parents newspaper during the
Great Recession. So that was my real life MBA and
then after spending three years there learning so much, really
(01:10):
tired of making no money, I wentto the tech industry for nine
years and I learned a lot to getmy second real life PhD in
organizational development, reallife PhD, just like real life
MBA. And I started Curiosity based in
2021 at the start at the middle of the pandemic.
And it's just been so much fun. That's what I've been doing to
(01:33):
myself. Let's talk about this real
quick. I'm just women.
I'm going to pick your brains and I'm going to make you listen
into this because I love what you said.
It's like it's a real life, you know, degree.
I think sometimes we get so caught up in the chasing of
certifications. I hear this all the time with
women. Oh, I've got to get another
certification. I got to get another
certification. I have to have this like, you
(01:55):
know, numbers, letters, whateverbehind me.
Like, can we have a serious, honest conversation?
Does that really needed? I really don't think so.
I really, and I, I ask people, are you do you need a degree or
do you want to learn? Because if you're just trying to
learn, you don't actually need adegree.
If there are some things where you actually do need.
(02:15):
I mean, I want a doctor with an MD, right?
Like. Yeah, no, but there, I mean the
doctor really like there's a, there's the work you've done
behind that too and for what youyou're doing.
So I get that. But I feel like everybody's
like, I need a coaching certificate, I need this
certificate, I need this, you know, something to validate who
I am in the world. Yeah.
(02:35):
And I am a big believer in just getting that experience in real
life. I mean, even with an MBA, people
say, oh, it's so great for networking.
Well, go network. You don't actually need to go to
school and pay over $100,000 forthat Go network.
There's a truth bomb right therefor you ladies.
(02:56):
So curiosity base, you know, we talked about this.
What makes us curious? Do we have we gotten away from
being curious? Have we forgotten how to be?
I mean, I know I'm just curious,but.
I think we are. So I think we are all curious
and I think we're in environments that make it
difficult to practice curiosity.So usually we describe curiosity
(03:16):
as a trait, as something you have or you don't have.
And I actually think of it as a practice that it's something
that we that we've got to practice that work on.
And sometimes I don't want to practice curiosity.
And I actually think that admitting when I don't want to
practice curiosity, that is realleadership because otherwise I
(03:37):
hear people all the time. 00 Katrina.
We just need to be more, you need to be more curious.
It's just like, it's kind of just, you know, I'm curious,
you're not right. And it's just actually, how do
we, what's going on in this space, this environment that's
making it hard for us to practice curiosity?
One of my favorite stats is 70% of people say they find it
(03:58):
difficult to ask questions at work.
And so then I'm like, why, what's going on?
I, I don't, I truly, I mean, I do think that there are some
people who for they, maybe theirform of curiosity is not asking
questions. And, and that's another thing I
think people typically think curiosity is just in asking
questions. I think a lot of curiosity is
about listening. Agree.
(04:20):
I think listening is an underdeveloped skill in a lot of
ways because I think in your listening you answer a lot of
your own questions that might come up.
So how do we develop the abilityto say no, I'm not curious, and
how do we develop that listeningof curiosity?
Saying, hey, right now I just can't practice curiosity.
(04:41):
That is, that requires a lot of vulnerability and that requires
a lot of inward curiosity. So when I say curiosity is a
practice, I think of it as having these three elements.
The first being self-awareness, the second is relationship
building, and the third is clearcommunication.
So that first one is inward curiosity.
So even being able to ask myself, why am I feeling a
(05:03):
certain way right now, that's making it really difficult for
me to listen to what that personis saying.
And I've got to, I've got to ownthat.
I mean, I'll just recently, evenjust at work, there was some
changes that some of my team members want to make.
And my first reaction was like, no, no.
And I really had to walk away, write down my pros and cons,
(05:28):
come back. And when we had a meeting and I,
I left changing my mind. Even though coming in, I was
like, I have very strong opinions.
And it was very, very difficult for me to practice curiosity.
Is part of that the I call it kind of call that the pause
because you like you said in there, you know, she walked into
(05:48):
the room you walked in. You said there's a change in
like like I get that all the time.
Like I moments I'm like, I so resist in the beginning, but
then I'm like go, you know, change my mind.
Kind of also like what you say is that pause between where
you're like and like pros and cons, is that a space that's
often neglected? I mean, do we feel like we don't
(06:11):
have time to kind of take that pause before we jump into, you
know, our reaction, I guess, to it?
Yeah, I think there's the pause and then there's the step away
and come back, 'cause sometimes the pause is not enough.
Sometimes I actually need some, a few days, maybe even more time
than that. There's an expectation that
(06:32):
people are smart when they know how to answer right away.
Yes. And, and even I'm, I'm a big
believer in when interviewing someone, give them the questions
ahead of time because you will get much better answers.
And I think some people think, Oh no, I want to see how they
think on their feet. It's just what you will find.
Is there some people who are better verbalizers?
Maybe they have can't answers versus those who just need some
(06:56):
time and space to, to think through that.
So I think that there's a lot ofexpectations of, of answering
immediately. I think that also technology has
done that to us too. Yeah, everything gets answered
instantaneously. And I think that's the, because
as you're talking, I'm like thinking of myself.
So I'm like, yeah, I struggled trying to give answers to my
(07:17):
podcast guests. Like what are the questions that
I'm going to ask ahead of time? Because I'm very reactionary in
terms of just being able to listen and ask a different
question. But there are those like you
say, that just need a little more structure and, and how and
what's going to be asked during the, these interviews.
And I think I, you know, it's a good reminder to myself, Julie,
(07:40):
because I, I, you kind of alwayslook at the world through your
own eyes and you don't take a step back to like, look at how
it might be viewed for somebody else.
Do you feel like between men andwomen, except we're talking to a
pretty dominantly female audience, do we find that for
us, we've got to have an answer right away?
(08:01):
Like do we feel as women that we've, and this is maybe really
general, so even my listeners, like, you know, take this with a
grain of salt, but do you feel like we as women have to have
the answer right away? Or like, because I feel like
sometimes we do need a day or two to kind of really process
what we're getting, what we're getting in.
I think that we might be judged more if we don't have the
answers right away depending on the context.
(08:24):
And so there's so many variableshere, right?
There's so many variables. What kind of field do you work
in? What's your position are do you,
are you comfortable with being more if you are introverted, are
you comfortable with with being that or do you feel that you
have to be more extroverted? I think that there's so many
variables. So I don't want to, I don't want
(08:45):
to generalize. I, I Yeah.
No, it's a great that's perfect 'cause I think it comes back
down to again, what I'm sharing is like the self-awareness right
now that you're talking to me. I can find myself at different
times going yeah, there's times when I've even come back to
podcast episodes that I've, you know, replay in my head going.
That was a really good, you know, conversation.
(09:06):
I really wish I had a little more time to develop it out, you
know, So there's there's almost that, that sense of just
self-awareness in that journey. So you said the first thing
around curiosity is, is definitely the self-awareness.
The second thing is the relationship.
So let's talk about is that the relationship?
The relationship building. So OK, so let So what is the
(09:27):
relationship building? So, so in this curiosity is
about having a conversation. So it's not just about me asking
you a whole bunch of questions. It's actually also me telling
you some things about myself so that you react to what I'm
saying. And then in your reaction, I get
some learning and then that there's that back and forth.
So I actually have a negative reaction to when I hear people
(09:51):
say it's not my job to educate you.
You've heard that said, right? It's not my job to educate you.
And my reaction to that is I'm not looking for an education,
I'm looking for engagement. And if you feel that you have
nothing to learn from me and that it's just a one way thing
that I actually don't want to bein conversation with you and
that is actually not curiosity, right?
(10:12):
And so, and so this is the, the practicing curiosity.
There's inward curiosity and then there's outward curiosity
and it kind of just goes. Then there's this reciprocity
and it goes back and forth that bouncy.
And that's where that relationship building happens.
And, and actually I in pausing to test if I'm actually ready to
(10:35):
practice curiosity with someone,especially when I, when I don't
want to or when I'm, I'm in disagreement, I have to, there's
a speed bump. I have to ask myself 2
questions. And the first question is, do I
want this person to learn from me?
Yes. And the second question is, am I
(10:57):
willing to learn from them? Is there that possibility that I
might be? Am I open to that?
And here's the thing, it's totally fine if you're not.
It's totally fine if you're not.That just means don't have that
conversation yet because oftentimes I think we really
want to. And I've been there too.
I'm like, I really want to thinkof myself as ready.
(11:21):
And I go in and, and, and I've been on the other end of this
where, oh, that person says they're ready to listen, but
they're not. And, and I've been there too,
where I'm just, oh, I, I think I'm ready, but I'm not.
And can I actually say I need tothink about this some more and
I'm not ready to have this conversation because that goes
back to there's so much expectations for us to just
(11:42):
answer things immediately. Why do you need more time?
Why can't you answer this now? It's like because they just need
more time. Yeah.
And and that's usually like something I've had the, I've had
actually learned when I was doing self development, I always
felt like I had to like have that answer right there or get
them scheduled on my calendar right then and there.
(12:03):
And the learning to pause, learning to step back and create
the space was one of the most eye opening pieces of my own
personal development 'cause I stopped trying to please
everybody. And I think that for me became
part of the people pleasing aspect of it was I was just
ready to do everything for everybody.
(12:24):
But I wasn't curious about what was driving that desire to just
be constantly serving everybody else 'cause there was something
over here with me that, you know, I had to open up the
Pandora's box, right? I had to go inside and say, OK,
what, what's triggering this reaction?
(12:44):
What is causing this to, for me to feel this way around this
person? And one of the interesting
things in my journey, and I'm just would love to hear if you
have anything or if you need to pause this one.
But sometimes I hear, I've heardthat I have a, somebody says
something to me. My reaction is a mirror.
It's like I'm, I'm like how, howa person, like if I meet
(13:05):
somebody for the first time and I have like a visceral reaction
to them, it's like holding up a mirror to myself.
Like something either they're wearing something about their
tonality of voice, something that maybe I'm either hidden or
shield away from or don't want to be like something around that
piece. Like especially when we're in
conversations with people as we're building those
relationships. Does that make sense?
(13:29):
So do you mean that if you're having a negative reaction to
someone, then you have to ask yourself, why are you having
that negative reaction? I think this comes up a lot
around money and around how people spend money.
OK, right. Because it's because if I'm
having a reaction to, oh, they, they're, they're spending money
frivolously or they're, or they're not spending or they're
(13:51):
being miserly, then that really is what is my, what are my
expectations around how money should be spent?
And that, and, and yet we, we often times we're just, they're
the problem. They're not, they're not making
a wise decision, whatever that decision is.
And yet we're not asking ourselves, huh, What are my
(14:12):
money stories? That's a good one.
Yep. What else you got for me?
I'm over here, like learning with you.
I'm like, Yep, Yep. Julie's.
Julie's got this kind of nailed on the head.
All right, let's continue. All right, So what are my money
stories? What other questions might I be
asking myself? And just what are the another
(14:32):
one that I I'm just having? I'm an oldest, I'm an oldest
daughter. And sometimes I'm reacting to
other people who are being oldest sister to me and I'm
reacting negatively And I realize it's because I'm
normally in that. And then I have this awareness.
Am I that annoying? Like, am I that bossy?
(14:55):
Right? So why am I irritated right now?
It's because I'm only the one doing that role.
So, so there are so many in all of this.
I mean, in my work, I like to say that we belong to multiple
identities, communities and cultures at the same time.
And so I think of practicing curiosity based inclusion to
(15:17):
really think about how we belongto those different identities
and how at any given time, in any different, any conversation,
some part of our identity is popping up.
Yeah. Is it that one where I'm the
oldest sister? Mine's the middle child
syndrome, so I would please bothsides.
(15:37):
I, I think that's my people pleaser.
I'm trying to take care of the older ones, take care of the
younger ones, please the family like I am, you know, the, the
problem solver on all ends of the, of the spectrum.
So I can see myself at that one.So when we talk curiosity and I
know when we were previously talking, part of curiosity comes
(15:58):
around to around respecting people and I know, yeah.
So go ahead and share a little bit on.
That so it's actually it's abouthow do we have, how do we have
curiosity around respect itself?Because often times when people
talk about respect, they talk about it as respect versus
disrespect. OK.
(16:18):
So if I'm not getting respect the way I want, that means I'm
being disrespect. And what we're not asking is, do
you have the same definition as me?
What's your definition? How do you and that?
And that is because often in my research, when I was starting to
ask people about for my books and forms of respect, I would
(16:42):
ask people, how do you want to be treated?
This is before I even had the word respect.
And then they said with respect.And I said, well, what does
respect mean to you? And people would talk about the
Golden Rule. You want to undelive as you
would have done unto you. Yes, right, But and.
That's still vague. Yeah, but The thing is, what if
people don't want what you want?What if people don't want to be
treated the way you want to be treated?
(17:03):
And so then I actually have whatI call the rubber band rule.
OK. And so in the rubber band.
And so I actually I'd like to carry a rubber band to
illustrate here. I like Virgili's going.
With this. So here's I've got this, I've
got this blue rubber band in my hand and I'm stretching it.
And so there are times where I'm, I'm kind of just, I don't
(17:25):
really care about, for example, preparing for meetings with a
lot of meticulousness, But I know that if I'm going to go to
a meeting with Bob, he really wants me to be on time ready,
right? And so I stretch for him, right?
And, and so how often are we kind of stretching for other
people because we know that theylike it.
(17:46):
And that's actually something weoften take pride in.
I mean, Katrina, you said you'rea people pleaser.
So I bet you're like, I, I, I can tell, I can stretch.
And so, and actually it's good for us to stretch.
Now, the problem is when we findourselves stretching so much,
we're stretching and stretching and stretching that we snap and
break like a rubber band. And so the rubber band rule is
(18:09):
about knowing what are my breaking points?
What's going to make me snap? And that is different for
everyone, but that's also different, different situations
because I'm way more stretchy athome than I am at work.
OK. That's solid.
And that goes back to that firstelement of practicing curiosity,
the self-awareness part. I have to actually ask myself,
(18:30):
how do I want to be respected and what is that based on?
What are the experience in my life that have informed that?
And then how do I communicate that with others?
Because often we don't, we just say that person was
disrespectful or toxic and I'm leaving and we don't actually
ask ourselves what were my expectations and did we actually
(18:54):
have any conversation about how we might have different
expectations. So again, that's around how do
we practice curiosity around respect?
I think you should make there's like a whole world that's like
opened up in my brain over here.So thanks Julie for that.
Because now there's a there's a new door.
But I look at, you know, from multiple things, like kind of
(19:14):
what's going on in the world right now.
Just seems like we're all feeling disrespected.
And I'm like, if I breathe, I'm disrespecting, you know, So
there's that sense of just tiptoeing around everyone.
So in this in this conversation,how do we in this almost kind of
in some places it feels more tense than others.
(19:36):
So how do we kind of kind of breakdown that tension, I guess
you can say in terms of what is respect, what is that like?
How do we find mutual ground, I guess with somebody and 'cause
this applies for I hear it all the time.
So as women entrepreneurs, we'retold to create competition.
So or we're told that we have tostand up.
(20:00):
In a certain, you know, political realm or religious
realm or something like that, Like it just kind of feels like
there's this one or the other dueling fight going on.
And so I, I often wonders as women in business that are
trying to bridge this gap. So I definitely feel as women,
we're really trying to bring humanity back together because
(20:23):
there is, there is asking for questions around, you know, I
just want to go for a walk in nature.
I want to just kind of reconnectto human beings again.
I, I just want to find what makes us, what brings us
together instead of what tears us apart.
So do you find that? I guess my question is, is in
this world of respect and curiosity, are we focusing more
(20:44):
on the negative? Are we focusing more on like,
not what's different, but more of like what connects us?
Is that or is that a duality of what you're you're teaching?
I think so. In my work, it's focusing on the
small things and thinking that all of these small actions,
these seemingly small stories, actually do form a bigger
(21:06):
picture. And yet we have to be aware of
the small things. So because if otherwise we say
respect, and that's a really big, big word, right?
But, but does that mean, for example, that you, I CC you on
an e-mail or not? Because for some people that
means I'm included if I'm CC Ed and for other people, you're
(21:26):
filling out my inbox and you're wasting my time.
And so to understand that actually all these little small
actions do get interpreted in different ways.
And so, and if that means I'm interpreting it differently,
other people can be interpretingit differently too.
And that that's all rooted in something.
So to find that, I don't know ifit's about finding common
(21:48):
ground, but actually just tryingto understand that we all have
experiences that inform our perspectives.
The question I like to ask is who in your life and what
experiences have informed how you think about respect?
And that really gets people to ground themselves in, huh?
This came from somewhere. Yeah.
It's it came from an example, asmy mom was always like picking
(22:10):
me up from school and she was very busy and I had to wait for
the school staff or I couldn't go home until the school staff
couldn't go home until I went home.
So I felt a lot of anxiety and Icarry that to today.
I literally have that story and I'm, and so other people could
have that same experience and say, what's the big deal?
(22:33):
You know, and so we can have, that's another thing.
We can have different experiences.
We can have the same experiencesand different reactions.
We can have the same experience and different reactions.
And so it's, it's important to actually share the story and
then also share, hey, this is myreaction to it.
And that when I tell you that you understand, I'm not just
(22:56):
being anal around time, right? You understand, Oh, it's, it's
coming from somewhere. And I think that's the part
where people we're not concrete and specific enough, even with
ourselves, because that requiresa bit of inward curiosity so
that when we can tell that story, then it's just, oh, I get
it. I understand now because people
(23:18):
remember stories. If you, if I were just to say
time is important, punctuality is important, you would probably
think thanks. Thanks, Mom, really thanks.
You're lecturing me and and I And so when we can just get at
these stories, then that's wherethat connection builds.
(23:41):
Yeah. I think that's the, for me,
that's the key piece like and I women, as you're building, you
know, businesses and you're building teams.
I think that's one of the big things is as women, I often come
across women that are afraid to hire somebody because they don't
(24:02):
want to have the wrong person ontheir team.
I think that comes into this conversation, though, even in
the interviewing process is knowing, you know, what's
important to each person. I mean, let's let's chat about
that because I feel like a lot of times we hire on in chaos
mode. I need somebody, hire them and
(24:25):
then we have a misalignment and who we're bringing in.
So can we talk a little bit about, you know, because it it
does touch upon this, whether you are believe it or not,
ladies, you're going to be having people that you feel like
you're going to disrespect you in how you're going your
business. You're going to have multiple
opinions out there. Julie shaking hedges again.
(24:50):
Yeah. So we want, do you want to share
a little bit about, you know that and what you've experienced
or seen? I will just say there's no
perfect way to do anything. Permission to screw up.
Thank. You well, because The thing is
you just don't know, right? You really don't know.
I mean, there's just hey, try this, try that.
Some of the things I've done forhiring is, is I mean, my team is
(25:14):
small, so just getting everyone to talk to that person, but then
also getting that person to talkto people without me and, and to
talk to the person who's leavingthe role.
Why are you leaving? What did you like about it?
It's I remember that there's AI have a colleague who is
wonderful. And when I first brought her on,
it was as an intern, she was notthe most qualified person.
(25:38):
The other person was more qualified and seemed to be just
on paper better. And yet there was something
like, I don't know, there's something, there's something
here. And so I actually, and I, I hate
going back and doing a second round because I feel like I have
a process and here I am violating the process.
(26:00):
And yet I just felt, and this isanother thing, trust your
instinct, right? Just like, you know, I think I
should go back and, and if I just gone through what our
original process, which was hired the best person on paper,
I would have hired the other person.
And, and you know, my colleaguesbeen with me before the
(26:20):
pandemic. And so she's been great.
It's like, and she's really changing.
There was no way to predict that.
There was no way to predict that.
And so that could have turned out really bad.
And I've also had ones where they were great on paper and I
did hire them and it didn't workout right.
And so I guess the permission is, if it doesn't work, that
(26:47):
doesn't mean you did something fundamentally wrong.
Yeah, she dropped another truth bomb right there, Yanks.
She did say that to you, by the way.
Ladies, to help. You're hearing this like that
was a big power conversation right there.
Yes. And also, here's another thing
people change. No, seriously.
(27:10):
Like we don't stand, we can. Have a great relationship in the
beginning and then it's just like it's not working out
anymore for whatever reasons, you know, a big I just a really
big aha that I had as an entrepreneur at the end of last
year. So this was me going into my
(27:31):
ending my fourth year of business, going to my fifth year
of business. And it's like, why am I not
growing faster? I want to grow faster.
And I visited my friend who justhad a baby and the baby's like 3
months old, can't even sit up. And it hits me.
Oh, we all go through stages. Humans go through stages,
(27:51):
businesses go through stages, and we can't skip these stages.
We try. Yeah, we try, but we.
Can everyone can. Puberty, right?
Everyone's gotta. Get everyone thinks we don't
have to get up and learn to walkfirst before we start running.
And, and, and also, and I'm going through my stages.
I mean, I've owned a business before, but this is really my
first time being ACEO of my, my own solo, having all the
(28:13):
responsibility. And there are times where people
are just like, did you have to say it that way or did you that?
I'm like, you know what? I'm figuring things out as a
first time CEO Cause so they're gonna be times where I realize
that I have to be, I, I have to be pretty clear.
And that might come off as really hard.
I mean, a colleague of mine justsaid, Hey, you just pushed back
(28:34):
in a way that that was very unusual.
And I said, yeah. And sometimes I'm learning to
have to be really clear. And so, but going back to the
stages, we are going through different stages.
Our companies are going through different stages.
We as women are going through different stages.
And those journeys are happeningsimultaneously.
And then Katrina, other people in our life are also going
through theirs, and here we are bumping up against each other.
(28:56):
And so how do we have grace for ourselves and for others?
Yeah, because it is. It's it's as an entrepreneur, as
a female entrepreneur and you'restarting your own business.
What's I mean, what's one thing that you wish you could impart
just knowledge wise on every female that's building a
business or just ready to get started and building?
So. She laughed.
(29:18):
In case you guys, she was a. Positive.
She's like. Which one, right.
I will say that there's this myth that Oh my gosh, I just, I
put all I borrowed money on my credit cards and everything
worked out. So how about that?
You're telling me that doesn't always work?
I have women laughing in the audience because they're like, I
(29:39):
will. Say my second year of business,
I was, there was a lot of thingsgoing on.
And then I think six months in to the year, I was just, oh,
we're cash positive because I'm putting money in that's not
profit. I got to manage my cash flow
better. And then I talked to a friend
and I was feeling horrible aboutmyself.
And then he was just, Julie, this happens.
(30:00):
Yeah. And that was another thing I
realized people don't talk aboutthat.
They talk about, oh, I borrowed money on my credit card and
everything worked out. And now I'm just, I tell people,
Oh yeah, that second year I wasn't monitoring.
I was in the red that year. Yeah, yeah.
And same there is times when themoney was coming in second year
and I was like, oh crap, like I've not managed this money for
(30:24):
this because it's a different, it is a little bit of a
different mindset. And that's a lot different
mindset because we're taught howto treat money from an employee
standpoint, and when you're a business, that money actually
has purpose and intentions. And also there are times where
it will go up and down and you invest it and you make these
(30:44):
decisions and it's not just constant growth and
accumulation. It's not like this 401K and I
keep putting setting aside moneyfrom my paycheck and putting in
it doesn't work that way. No, it doesn't.
And I think that's one of the the shocking things as we go
from an employee that's making apaycheck into entrepreneurship
is that money is not fluid. It's it's not a consistent
(31:06):
because like I said, you're going to have to invest in
yourself. You're going to have to
potentially invest for product or employment or someone coming
into your business. So there's it's not like it's
your personal Piggy Bank. And I'm going to totally call
myself out. There was a while I thought my
business account was, you know, oh, I just need this for a new
(31:28):
computer. Oh, I like if you get into this
one Piggy Bank mentality, which I will tell you is it's the
worst thing you can do. Do you have something that
you've learned across the process for a kind of in terms
of managing your money? Do you have a better process
you're putting into place? I mean, I will say I have AI
need to have six months of of all expenses in my bank account.
(31:51):
OK. So I I try to be that gives me
Peace of Mind and also I share the beginning of every month our
cash flow. OK.
And so it's pretty transparent and that actually that's
something I started doing after that second year 'cause it was
just. So are you?
Are you sharing it with your your or your your team?
Yep, you're totally transparent around money.
(32:13):
I like every at the beginning ofevery month.
It's like, here's the spreadsheet, this is where we're
at. This is what we need to make by
the end of the year to break even.
And this is, you know, I it doesn't there are buckets of
like. So it's not like, hey, this is
what exactly everyone is gettingpaid.
But here's the. Bucket.
Here's here's the payroll bucket, right here's here are
(32:33):
these buckets. And then here's what this is the
this is the projected revenue and this is what we need to
make. And, and it's because after that
second year where I was just, I realized that I didn't want to
try to come up with different narratives.
And it was just easier for me tobe like, this is where we're at.
(32:55):
And, you know, and it's also like, I'm willing to go into
some reserves. This is, that's what's going to
happen. That's what's going to, and
that's, and I mean, I just had to make a really the hardest
business decision I made a few months ago was letting someone
go. And I had to do that before I
needed to do that. What do you mean by that?
(33:15):
You need. Because I could.
It was just like, oh, I, you know, because I have this
conservative, I want six months,right?
And like, and with the economy and she's like, I don't want to
get into the position where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have to do
this. It was more of like, this is
this could be this could happen.And also what I also realized
(33:36):
was technology has changed things a lot too.
So he has a business changed, right going into her fifth year.
It's like, wow, there are thingsthat I don't need done anymore
and like that I said no, I'm like I'm not.
For example, I used to do YouTube videos every week that
took up 20% of the employees time.
We don't do that anymore so cuz.There's technology out there
(33:56):
that'll do it for you. Well, no actually cuz I'm like I
don't wanna do a YouTube video every week and.
Then in that case. Like YouTube videos?
You're not. Give me joy.
See the things you hear on this right?
She just dropped another. Did she really say that she just
gave up YouTube? Yes.
You don't have to be everywhere now, do you?
(34:17):
Julie? I.
Mean someone is like taking all the content that we created over
years and repurposing it. But Katrina, I don't have to get
in front of a camera, memorize and put on full face and do
this. No, no, not doing it anymore.
So, but the beautiful thing is, is that you've got content
you've created like what, last 41/2 years exactly?
So now we're. Just repurpose.
(34:38):
People feel like you've got to come up with new crap every
single day. If it's if it's in your brand
language, repurpose. Yeah, and nobody can remember
it. Was not giving me joy.
Issues. If you guys can see Julie's
face, she's like, no, that that was a rubber band stretch that
literally it snapped. And you know, when I was waiting
for that magical pop that peoplekept talking about, I'm like,
(35:00):
Pop's not coming. I'm not waiting for pop anymore.
It's just gonna happen. You're just gonna take off.
You're gonna go vertical. It's like, yeah, but it.
Well, see, The thing is, is it never will because it doesn't
bring you joy. Yeah, yeah.
Like I think we try to force ourselves to do things that do
not bring us joy. And this is another thing about
(35:21):
being an entrepreneur is I had Ilearned it's not about managing
my time, it's about managing my energy.
Say that again. That was beautiful.
So it's just, it's not about, oh, this is how much time I need
to spend on something. It's just what are the things
that give me energy and one of the things that take away energy
and the things that take away energy, I need to delegate that,
right? I need to have project
management takes away energy, soI'm not gonna do that.
(35:43):
I'm gonna have someone else to do who?
People on my someone on my team who loves organizing the Google
Drive. Oh, thank goodness, because I
don't. Those are my blue printers, my
blue printers out in the world. Thank God for you that love
Excel sheets and organization. But the things that give me
energy is I'm a writer. That's the reason why I started
my business. I want to commercialize my
content. And so that gives me joy.
And that's something I'm uniquely positioned to do.
(36:05):
And so I think really constantlymonitoring what gives you, what
gives me energy and what doesn'tgive me energy.
And because I have to, I'm superprotective of that, actually.
Thank you for that. And I want you ladies to model
that and I want you to hear thattoo.
Sounds like I want a desire for you to model that because your
energy is the most precious thing you have as a female.
(36:27):
Actually, it's a human human, any human being.
But I feel like it's so much Julia, that we just, we just
throw that energy around and we don't ever refill it.
What's your favorite way to reset your energy?
Oh my gosh, lazing around turning off the phone and
reading novels. I'm a big library card user.
(36:47):
I love fiction. I love historical fiction.
It's it's the cheapest and easiest way to time and space
travel. Agree.
And so. Anything fiction.
Yes. And so for me, I will spend a
whole day where it's just phone off in bed and I'm a fast reader
so. Hey if.
(37:08):
You've been talking to anyone. No, if you've been, if you were,
I mean, I could read a book a day cause I've, I've just been
reading for so long that there'stimes you just kind of either
speed read or you just kind of get the gist of it and you're
moving on through the whole thing.
So that for me, I, I think you dropped so many truth bombs.
I not even think I know you dropped so many truth bombs in
here is there? And I know you've got a gift for
(37:30):
the those that are listening. So there is the free 7 forms of
Respect crash course. Yeah, Crash.
Go onto yeah. So you can go onto my website,
curiositybase.com, and we have afree crash course on how to
approach difficult conversationswith Curiosity.
You get access for it for two weeks.
And so sign up. It's just and it's just 20
(37:51):
minutes. It's got some work, so yeah.
I love it and it's gonna be in the show notes because we got
the podcast. And like Julie says, I love
doing podcasts because AI can post it in one place and it gets
done all for me. So I'm a lazy marketer.
It's what I call myself and I'm really proud of it.
And the other place you can findthis is on YouTube.
But those will all be in the show notes and to find Julie to
(38:11):
connect with her. And I will say one thing for
sure, if you are in business andyou're struggling in any area,
whether it's the money, your marketing, your personal brand,
any of that, this respect crash course is going to give you a
right Julie, like just ways to really dive into your inner self
(38:33):
because we didn't really talk about community, but we say
self-awareness, relationship building.
Communication skills Communication.
Skills communication I did have.Communication skills that
listen, Communication skills. So that's communicating.
Basket of communications yes, but communication is the big
piece of this so yeah, but thankyou so much for being on with
us. I mean this is a fantastic.
(38:54):
I hope you guys got some really good Nuggets cuz I did cuz she's
so good at asking curiosity questions and getting me to
think over here. So thank you for your time.
I appreciate you for those listening in definitely connect
with her, reach out to her and spend some time getting to know
her. Her links and everything are
going to be down here in the show notes and we'll see you on
the next episode.
But welcome to this episode of Did She Really Say That?
And I promise you, Doctor Julie Fem is going to have you saying
this a lot because we're talkingabout respect.
And it's so important as we're developing ourselves as
entrepreneurs and as women in business, one of the things that
we're always asking for is to berespected.
Then we want to be respectful. And so there is going to be some
(00:25):
interesting conversation around this.
But I am excited for this conversation.
Julie, do I call you Doctor? Julie, do you want me?
For me, call me Julie, call. Me just call you Julie.
We're just going to call her Julie ladies.
So I'm excited to have you. So let's share a little bit
about your background and how you got into respect.
All right, so my background is Ihave to, I have to start with,
(00:46):
I'm a Vietnamese refugee. My parents are the first
Vietnamese language newspaper inthe Pacific Northwest.
And I grew up with that newspaper.
I thought I was going to be an academic, so I trained as a
historian and then I decided to leave academia and I came back
to Seattle in 2008 to help run my parents newspaper during the
Great Recession. So that was my real life MBA and
then after spending three years there learning so much, really
(01:10):
tired of making no money, I wentto the tech industry for nine
years and I learned a lot to getmy second real life PhD in
organizational development, reallife PhD, just like real life
MBA. And I started Curiosity based in
2021 at the start at the middle of the pandemic.
And it's just been so much fun. That's what I've been doing to
(01:33):
myself. Let's talk about this real
quick. I'm just women.
I'm going to pick your brains and I'm going to make you listen
into this because I love what you said.
It's like it's a real life, you know, degree.
I think sometimes we get so caught up in the chasing of
certifications. I hear this all the time with
women. Oh, I've got to get another
certification. I got to get another
certification. I have to have this like, you
(01:55):
know, numbers, letters, whateverbehind me.
Like, can we have a serious, honest conversation?
Does that really needed? I really don't think so.
I really, and I, I ask people, are you do you need a degree or
do you want to learn? Because if you're just trying to
learn, you don't actually need adegree.
If there are some things where you actually do need.
(02:15):
I mean, I want a doctor with an MD, right?
Like. Yeah, no, but there, I mean the
doctor really like there's a, there's the work you've done
behind that too and for what youyou're doing.
So I get that. But I feel like everybody's
like, I need a coaching certificate, I need this
certificate, I need this, you know, something to validate who
I am in the world. Yeah.
(02:35):
And I am a big believer in just getting that experience in real
life. I mean, even with an MBA, people
say, oh, it's so great for networking.
Well, go network. You don't actually need to go to
school and pay over $100,000 forthat Go network.
There's a truth bomb right therefor you ladies.
(02:56):
So curiosity base, you know, we talked about this.
What makes us curious? Do we have we gotten away from
being curious? Have we forgotten how to be?
I mean, I know I'm just curious,but.
I think we are. So I think we are all curious
and I think we're in environments that make it
difficult to practice curiosity.So usually we describe curiosity
(03:16):
as a trait, as something you have or you don't have.
And I actually think of it as a practice that it's something
that we that we've got to practice that work on.
And sometimes I don't want to practice curiosity.
And I actually think that admitting when I don't want to
practice curiosity, that is realleadership because otherwise I
(03:37):
hear people all the time. 00 Katrina.
We just need to be more, you need to be more curious.
It's just like, it's kind of just, you know, I'm curious,
you're not right. And it's just actually, how do
we, what's going on in this space, this environment that's
making it hard for us to practice curiosity?
One of my favorite stats is 70% of people say they find it
(03:58):
difficult to ask questions at work.
And so then I'm like, why, what's going on?
I, I don't, I truly, I mean, I do think that there are some
people who for they, maybe theirform of curiosity is not asking
questions. And, and that's another thing I
think people typically think curiosity is just in asking
questions. I think a lot of curiosity is
about listening. Agree.
(04:20):
I think listening is an underdeveloped skill in a lot of
ways because I think in your listening you answer a lot of
your own questions that might come up.
So how do we develop the abilityto say no, I'm not curious, and
how do we develop that listeningof curiosity?
Saying, hey, right now I just can't practice curiosity.
(04:41):
That is, that requires a lot of vulnerability and that requires
a lot of inward curiosity. So when I say curiosity is a
practice, I think of it as having these three elements.
The first being self-awareness, the second is relationship
building, and the third is clearcommunication.
So that first one is inward curiosity.
So even being able to ask myself, why am I feeling a
(05:03):
certain way right now, that's making it really difficult for
me to listen to what that personis saying.
And I've got to, I've got to ownthat.
I mean, I'll just recently, evenjust at work, there was some
changes that some of my team members want to make.
And my first reaction was like, no, no.
And I really had to walk away, write down my pros and cons,
(05:28):
come back. And when we had a meeting and I,
I left changing my mind. Even though coming in, I was
like, I have very strong opinions.
And it was very, very difficult for me to practice curiosity.
Is part of that the I call it kind of call that the pause
because you like you said in there, you know, she walked into
(05:48):
the room you walked in. You said there's a change in
like like I get that all the time.
Like I moments I'm like, I so resist in the beginning, but
then I'm like go, you know, change my mind.
Kind of also like what you say is that pause between where
you're like and like pros and cons, is that a space that's
often neglected? I mean, do we feel like we don't
(06:11):
have time to kind of take that pause before we jump into, you
know, our reaction, I guess, to it?
Yeah, I think there's the pause and then there's the step away
and come back, 'cause sometimes the pause is not enough.
Sometimes I actually need some, a few days, maybe even more time
than that. There's an expectation that
(06:32):
people are smart when they know how to answer right away.
Yes. And, and even I'm, I'm a big
believer in when interviewing someone, give them the questions
ahead of time because you will get much better answers.
And I think some people think, Oh no, I want to see how they
think on their feet. It's just what you will find.
Is there some people who are better verbalizers?
Maybe they have can't answers versus those who just need some
(06:56):
time and space to, to think through that.
So I think that there's a lot ofexpectations of, of answering
immediately. I think that also technology has
done that to us too. Yeah, everything gets answered
instantaneously. And I think that's the, because
as you're talking, I'm like thinking of myself.
So I'm like, yeah, I struggled trying to give answers to my
(07:17):
podcast guests. Like what are the questions that
I'm going to ask ahead of time? Because I'm very reactionary in
terms of just being able to listen and ask a different
question. But there are those like you
say, that just need a little more structure and, and how and
what's going to be asked during the, these interviews.
And I think I, you know, it's a good reminder to myself, Julie,
(07:40):
because I, I, you kind of alwayslook at the world through your
own eyes and you don't take a step back to like, look at how
it might be viewed for somebody else.
Do you feel like between men andwomen, except we're talking to a
pretty dominantly female audience, do we find that for
us, we've got to have an answer right away?
(08:01):
Like do we feel as women that we've, and this is maybe really
general, so even my listeners, like, you know, take this with a
grain of salt, but do you feel like we as women have to have
the answer right away? Or like, because I feel like
sometimes we do need a day or two to kind of really process
what we're getting, what we're getting in.
I think that we might be judged more if we don't have the
answers right away depending on the context.
(08:24):
And so there's so many variableshere, right?
There's so many variables. What kind of field do you work
in? What's your position are do you,
are you comfortable with being more if you are introverted, are
you comfortable with with being that or do you feel that you
have to be more extroverted? I think that there's so many
variables. So I don't want to, I don't want
(08:45):
to generalize. I, I Yeah.
No, it's a great that's perfect 'cause I think it comes back
down to again, what I'm sharing is like the self-awareness right
now that you're talking to me. I can find myself at different
times going yeah, there's times when I've even come back to
podcast episodes that I've, you know, replay in my head going.
That was a really good, you know, conversation.
(09:06):
I really wish I had a little more time to develop it out, you
know, So there's there's almost that, that sense of just
self-awareness in that journey. So you said the first thing
around curiosity is, is definitely the self-awareness.
The second thing is the relationship.
So let's talk about is that the relationship?
The relationship building. So OK, so let So what is the
(09:27):
relationship building? So, so in this curiosity is
about having a conversation. So it's not just about me asking
you a whole bunch of questions. It's actually also me telling
you some things about myself so that you react to what I'm
saying. And then in your reaction, I get
some learning and then that there's that back and forth.
So I actually have a negative reaction to when I hear people
(09:51):
say it's not my job to educate you.
You've heard that said, right? It's not my job to educate you.
And my reaction to that is I'm not looking for an education,
I'm looking for engagement. And if you feel that you have
nothing to learn from me and that it's just a one way thing
that I actually don't want to bein conversation with you and
that is actually not curiosity, right?
(10:12):
And so, and so this is the, the practicing curiosity.
There's inward curiosity and then there's outward curiosity
and it kind of just goes. Then there's this reciprocity
and it goes back and forth that bouncy.
And that's where that relationship building happens.
And, and actually I in pausing to test if I'm actually ready to
(10:35):
practice curiosity with someone,especially when I, when I don't
want to or when I'm, I'm in disagreement, I have to, there's
a speed bump. I have to ask myself 2
questions. And the first question is, do I
want this person to learn from me?
Yes. And the second question is, am I
(10:57):
willing to learn from them? Is there that possibility that I
might be? Am I open to that?
And here's the thing, it's totally fine if you're not.
It's totally fine if you're not.That just means don't have that
conversation yet because oftentimes I think we really
want to. And I've been there too.
I'm like, I really want to thinkof myself as ready.
(11:21):
And I go in and, and, and I've been on the other end of this
where, oh, that person says they're ready to listen, but
they're not. And, and I've been there too,
where I'm just, oh, I, I think I'm ready, but I'm not.
And can I actually say I need tothink about this some more and
I'm not ready to have this conversation because that goes
back to there's so much expectations for us to just
(11:42):
answer things immediately. Why do you need more time?
Why can't you answer this now? It's like because they just need
more time. Yeah.
And and that's usually like something I've had the, I've had
actually learned when I was doing self development, I always
felt like I had to like have that answer right there or get
them scheduled on my calendar right then and there.
(12:03):
And the learning to pause, learning to step back and create
the space was one of the most eye opening pieces of my own
personal development 'cause I stopped trying to please
everybody. And I think that for me became
part of the people pleasing aspect of it was I was just
ready to do everything for everybody.
(12:24):
But I wasn't curious about what was driving that desire to just
be constantly serving everybody else 'cause there was something
over here with me that, you know, I had to open up the
Pandora's box, right? I had to go inside and say, OK,
what, what's triggering this reaction?
(12:44):
What is causing this to, for me to feel this way around this
person? And one of the interesting
things in my journey, and I'm just would love to hear if you
have anything or if you need to pause this one.
But sometimes I hear, I've heardthat I have a, somebody says
something to me. My reaction is a mirror.
It's like I'm, I'm like how, howa person, like if I meet
(13:05):
somebody for the first time and I have like a visceral reaction
to them, it's like holding up a mirror to myself.
Like something either they're wearing something about their
tonality of voice, something that maybe I'm either hidden or
shield away from or don't want to be like something around that
piece. Like especially when we're in
conversations with people as we're building those
relationships. Does that make sense?
(13:29):
So do you mean that if you're having a negative reaction to
someone, then you have to ask yourself, why are you having
that negative reaction? I think this comes up a lot
around money and around how people spend money.
OK, right. Because it's because if I'm
having a reaction to, oh, they, they're, they're spending money
frivolously or they're, or they're not spending or they're
(13:51):
being miserly, then that really is what is my, what are my
expectations around how money should be spent?
And that, and, and yet we, we often times we're just, they're
the problem. They're not, they're not making
a wise decision, whatever that decision is.
And yet we're not asking ourselves, huh, What are my
(14:12):
money stories? That's a good one.
Yep. What else you got for me?
I'm over here, like learning with you.
I'm like, Yep, Yep. Julie's.
Julie's got this kind of nailed on the head.
All right, let's continue. All right, So what are my money
stories? What other questions might I be
asking myself? And just what are the another
(14:32):
one that I I'm just having? I'm an oldest, I'm an oldest
daughter. And sometimes I'm reacting to
other people who are being oldest sister to me and I'm
reacting negatively And I realize it's because I'm
normally in that. And then I have this awareness.
Am I that annoying? Like, am I that bossy?
(14:55):
Right? So why am I irritated right now?
It's because I'm only the one doing that role.
So, so there are so many in all of this.
I mean, in my work, I like to say that we belong to multiple
identities, communities and cultures at the same time.
And so I think of practicing curiosity based inclusion to
(15:17):
really think about how we belongto those different identities
and how at any given time, in any different, any conversation,
some part of our identity is popping up.
Yeah. Is it that one where I'm the
oldest sister? Mine's the middle child
syndrome, so I would please bothsides.
(15:37):
I, I think that's my people pleaser.
I'm trying to take care of the older ones, take care of the
younger ones, please the family like I am, you know, the, the
problem solver on all ends of the, of the spectrum.
So I can see myself at that one.So when we talk curiosity and I
know when we were previously talking, part of curiosity comes
(15:58):
around to around respecting people and I know, yeah.
So go ahead and share a little bit on.
That so it's actually it's abouthow do we have, how do we have
curiosity around respect itself?Because often times when people
talk about respect, they talk about it as respect versus
disrespect. OK.
(16:18):
So if I'm not getting respect the way I want, that means I'm
being disrespect. And what we're not asking is, do
you have the same definition as me?
What's your definition? How do you and that?
And that is because often in my research, when I was starting to
ask people about for my books and forms of respect, I would
(16:42):
ask people, how do you want to be treated?
This is before I even had the word respect.
And then they said with respect.And I said, well, what does
respect mean to you? And people would talk about the
Golden Rule. You want to undelive as you
would have done unto you. Yes, right, But and.
That's still vague. Yeah, but The thing is, what if
people don't want what you want?What if people don't want to be
treated the way you want to be treated?
(17:03):
And so then I actually have whatI call the rubber band rule.
OK. And so in the rubber band.
And so I actually I'd like to carry a rubber band to
illustrate here. I like Virgili's going.
With this. So here's I've got this, I've
got this blue rubber band in my hand and I'm stretching it.
And so there are times where I'm, I'm kind of just, I don't
(17:25):
really care about, for example, preparing for meetings with a
lot of meticulousness, But I know that if I'm going to go to
a meeting with Bob, he really wants me to be on time ready,
right? And so I stretch for him, right?
And, and so how often are we kind of stretching for other
people because we know that theylike it.
(17:46):
And that's actually something weoften take pride in.
I mean, Katrina, you said you'rea people pleaser.
So I bet you're like, I, I, I can tell, I can stretch.
And so, and actually it's good for us to stretch.
Now, the problem is when we findourselves stretching so much,
we're stretching and stretching and stretching that we snap and
break like a rubber band. And so the rubber band rule is
(18:09):
about knowing what are my breaking points?
What's going to make me snap? And that is different for
everyone, but that's also different, different situations
because I'm way more stretchy athome than I am at work.
OK. That's solid.
And that goes back to that firstelement of practicing curiosity,
the self-awareness part. I have to actually ask myself,
(18:30):
how do I want to be respected and what is that based on?
What are the experience in my life that have informed that?
And then how do I communicate that with others?
Because often we don't, we just say that person was
disrespectful or toxic and I'm leaving and we don't actually
ask ourselves what were my expectations and did we actually
(18:54):
have any conversation about how we might have different
expectations. So again, that's around how do
we practice curiosity around respect?
I think you should make there's like a whole world that's like
opened up in my brain over here.So thanks Julie for that.
Because now there's a there's a new door.
But I look at, you know, from multiple things, like kind of
(19:14):
what's going on in the world right now.
Just seems like we're all feeling disrespected.
And I'm like, if I breathe, I'm disrespecting, you know, So
there's that sense of just tiptoeing around everyone.
So in this in this conversation,how do we in this almost kind of
in some places it feels more tense than others.
(19:36):
So how do we kind of kind of breakdown that tension, I guess
you can say in terms of what is respect, what is that like?
How do we find mutual ground, I guess with somebody and 'cause
this applies for I hear it all the time.
So as women entrepreneurs, we'retold to create competition.
So or we're told that we have tostand up.
(20:00):
In a certain, you know, political realm or religious
realm or something like that, Like it just kind of feels like
there's this one or the other dueling fight going on.
And so I, I often wonders as women in business that are
trying to bridge this gap. So I definitely feel as women,
we're really trying to bring humanity back together because
(20:23):
there is, there is asking for questions around, you know, I
just want to go for a walk in nature.
I want to just kind of reconnectto human beings again.
I, I just want to find what makes us, what brings us
together instead of what tears us apart.
So do you find that? I guess my question is, is in
this world of respect and curiosity, are we focusing more
(20:44):
on the negative? Are we focusing more on like,
not what's different, but more of like what connects us?
Is that or is that a duality of what you're you're teaching?
I think so. In my work, it's focusing on the
small things and thinking that all of these small actions,
these seemingly small stories, actually do form a bigger
(21:06):
picture. And yet we have to be aware of
the small things. So because if otherwise we say
respect, and that's a really big, big word, right?
But, but does that mean, for example, that you, I CC you on
an e-mail or not? Because for some people that
means I'm included if I'm CC Ed and for other people, you're
(21:26):
filling out my inbox and you're wasting my time.
And so to understand that actually all these little small
actions do get interpreted in different ways.
And so, and if that means I'm interpreting it differently,
other people can be interpretingit differently too.
And that that's all rooted in something.
So to find that, I don't know ifit's about finding common
(21:48):
ground, but actually just tryingto understand that we all have
experiences that inform our perspectives.
The question I like to ask is who in your life and what
experiences have informed how you think about respect?
And that really gets people to ground themselves in, huh?
This came from somewhere. Yeah.
It's it came from an example, asmy mom was always like picking
(22:10):
me up from school and she was very busy and I had to wait for
the school staff or I couldn't go home until the school staff
couldn't go home until I went home.
So I felt a lot of anxiety and Icarry that to today.
I literally have that story and I'm, and so other people could
have that same experience and say, what's the big deal?
(22:33):
You know, and so we can have, that's another thing.
We can have different experiences.
We can have the same experiencesand different reactions.
We can have the same experience and different reactions.
And so it's, it's important to actually share the story and
then also share, hey, this is myreaction to it.
And that when I tell you that you understand, I'm not just
(22:56):
being anal around time, right? You understand, Oh, it's, it's
coming from somewhere. And I think that's the part
where people we're not concrete and specific enough, even with
ourselves, because that requiresa bit of inward curiosity so
that when we can tell that story, then it's just, oh, I get
it. I understand now because people
(23:18):
remember stories. If you, if I were just to say
time is important, punctuality is important, you would probably
think thanks. Thanks, Mom, really thanks.
You're lecturing me and and I And so when we can just get at
these stories, then that's wherethat connection builds.
(23:41):
Yeah. I think that's the, for me,
that's the key piece like and I women, as you're building, you
know, businesses and you're building teams.
I think that's one of the big things is as women, I often come
across women that are afraid to hire somebody because they don't
(24:02):
want to have the wrong person ontheir team.
I think that comes into this conversation, though, even in
the interviewing process is knowing, you know, what's
important to each person. I mean, let's let's chat about
that because I feel like a lot of times we hire on in chaos
mode. I need somebody, hire them and
(24:25):
then we have a misalignment and who we're bringing in.
So can we talk a little bit about, you know, because it it
does touch upon this, whether you are believe it or not,
ladies, you're going to be having people that you feel like
you're going to disrespect you in how you're going your
business. You're going to have multiple
opinions out there. Julie shaking hedges again.
(24:50):
Yeah. So we want, do you want to share
a little bit about, you know that and what you've experienced
or seen? I will just say there's no
perfect way to do anything. Permission to screw up.
Thank. You well, because The thing is
you just don't know, right? You really don't know.
I mean, there's just hey, try this, try that.
Some of the things I've done forhiring is, is I mean, my team is
(25:14):
small, so just getting everyone to talk to that person, but then
also getting that person to talkto people without me and, and to
talk to the person who's leavingthe role.
Why are you leaving? What did you like about it?
It's I remember that there's AI have a colleague who is
wonderful. And when I first brought her on,
it was as an intern, she was notthe most qualified person.
(25:38):
The other person was more qualified and seemed to be just
on paper better. And yet there was something
like, I don't know, there's something, there's something
here. And so I actually, and I, I hate
going back and doing a second round because I feel like I have
a process and here I am violating the process.
(26:00):
And yet I just felt, and this isanother thing, trust your
instinct, right? Just like, you know, I think I
should go back and, and if I just gone through what our
original process, which was hired the best person on paper,
I would have hired the other person.
And, and you know, my colleaguesbeen with me before the
(26:20):
pandemic. And so she's been great.
It's like, and she's really changing.
There was no way to predict that.
There was no way to predict that.
And so that could have turned out really bad.
And I've also had ones where they were great on paper and I
did hire them and it didn't workout right.
And so I guess the permission is, if it doesn't work, that
(26:47):
doesn't mean you did something fundamentally wrong.
Yeah, she dropped another truth bomb right there, Yanks.
She did say that to you, by the way.
Ladies, to help. You're hearing this like that
was a big power conversation right there.
Yes. And also, here's another thing
people change. No, seriously.
(27:10):
Like we don't stand, we can. Have a great relationship in the
beginning and then it's just like it's not working out
anymore for whatever reasons, you know, a big I just a really
big aha that I had as an entrepreneur at the end of last
year. So this was me going into my
(27:31):
ending my fourth year of business, going to my fifth year
of business. And it's like, why am I not
growing faster? I want to grow faster.
And I visited my friend who justhad a baby and the baby's like 3
months old, can't even sit up. And it hits me.
Oh, we all go through stages. Humans go through stages,
(27:51):
businesses go through stages, and we can't skip these stages.
We try. Yeah, we try, but we.
Can everyone can. Puberty, right?
Everyone's gotta. Get everyone thinks we don't
have to get up and learn to walkfirst before we start running.
And, and, and also, and I'm going through my stages.
I mean, I've owned a business before, but this is really my
first time being ACEO of my, my own solo, having all the
(28:13):
responsibility. And there are times where people
are just like, did you have to say it that way or did you that?
I'm like, you know what? I'm figuring things out as a
first time CEO Cause so they're gonna be times where I realize
that I have to be, I, I have to be pretty clear.
And that might come off as really hard.
I mean, a colleague of mine justsaid, Hey, you just pushed back
(28:34):
in a way that that was very unusual.
And I said, yeah. And sometimes I'm learning to
have to be really clear. And so, but going back to the
stages, we are going through different stages.
Our companies are going through different stages.
We as women are going through different stages.
And those journeys are happeningsimultaneously.
And then Katrina, other people in our life are also going
through theirs, and here we are bumping up against each other.
(28:56):
And so how do we have grace for ourselves and for others?
Yeah, because it is. It's it's as an entrepreneur, as
a female entrepreneur and you'restarting your own business.
What's I mean, what's one thing that you wish you could impart
just knowledge wise on every female that's building a
business or just ready to get started and building?
So. She laughed.
(29:18):
In case you guys, she was a. Positive.
She's like. Which one, right.
I will say that there's this myth that Oh my gosh, I just, I
put all I borrowed money on my credit cards and everything
worked out. So how about that?
You're telling me that doesn't always work?
I have women laughing in the audience because they're like, I
(29:39):
will. Say my second year of business,
I was, there was a lot of thingsgoing on.
And then I think six months in to the year, I was just, oh,
we're cash positive because I'm putting money in that's not
profit. I got to manage my cash flow
better. And then I talked to a friend
and I was feeling horrible aboutmyself.
And then he was just, Julie, this happens.
(30:00):
Yeah. And that was another thing I
realized people don't talk aboutthat.
They talk about, oh, I borrowed money on my credit card and
everything worked out. And now I'm just, I tell people,
Oh yeah, that second year I wasn't monitoring.
I was in the red that year. Yeah, yeah.
And same there is times when themoney was coming in second year
and I was like, oh crap, like I've not managed this money for
(30:24):
this because it's a different, it is a little bit of a
different mindset. And that's a lot different
mindset because we're taught howto treat money from an employee
standpoint, and when you're a business, that money actually
has purpose and intentions. And also there are times where
it will go up and down and you invest it and you make these
(30:44):
decisions and it's not just constant growth and
accumulation. It's not like this 401K and I
keep putting setting aside moneyfrom my paycheck and putting in
it doesn't work that way. No, it doesn't.
And I think that's one of the the shocking things as we go
from an employee that's making apaycheck into entrepreneurship
is that money is not fluid. It's it's not a consistent
(31:06):
because like I said, you're going to have to invest in
yourself. You're going to have to
potentially invest for product or employment or someone coming
into your business. So there's it's not like it's
your personal Piggy Bank. And I'm going to totally call
myself out. There was a while I thought my
business account was, you know, oh, I just need this for a new
(31:28):
computer. Oh, I like if you get into this
one Piggy Bank mentality, which I will tell you is it's the
worst thing you can do. Do you have something that
you've learned across the process for a kind of in terms
of managing your money? Do you have a better process
you're putting into place? I mean, I will say I have AI
need to have six months of of all expenses in my bank account.
(31:51):
OK. So I I try to be that gives me
Peace of Mind and also I share the beginning of every month our
cash flow. OK.
And so it's pretty transparent and that actually that's
something I started doing after that second year 'cause it was
just. So are you?
Are you sharing it with your your or your your team?
Yep, you're totally transparent around money.
(32:13):
I like every at the beginning ofevery month.
It's like, here's the spreadsheet, this is where we're
at. This is what we need to make by
the end of the year to break even.
And this is, you know, I it doesn't there are buckets of
like. So it's not like, hey, this is
what exactly everyone is gettingpaid.
But here's the. Bucket.
Here's here's the payroll bucket, right here's here are
(32:33):
these buckets. And then here's what this is the
this is the projected revenue and this is what we need to
make. And, and it's because after that
second year where I was just, I realized that I didn't want to
try to come up with different narratives.
And it was just easier for me tobe like, this is where we're at.
(32:55):
And, you know, and it's also like, I'm willing to go into
some reserves. This is, that's what's going to
happen. That's what's going to, and
that's, and I mean, I just had to make a really the hardest
business decision I made a few months ago was letting someone
go. And I had to do that before I
needed to do that. What do you mean by that?
(33:15):
You need. Because I could.
It was just like, oh, I, you know, because I have this
conservative, I want six months,right?
And like, and with the economy and she's like, I don't want to
get into the position where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have to do
this. It was more of like, this is
this could be this could happen.And also what I also realized
(33:36):
was technology has changed things a lot too.
So he has a business changed, right going into her fifth year.
It's like, wow, there are thingsthat I don't need done anymore
and like that I said no, I'm like I'm not.
For example, I used to do YouTube videos every week that
took up 20% of the employees time.
We don't do that anymore so cuz.There's technology out there
(33:56):
that'll do it for you. Well, no actually cuz I'm like I
don't wanna do a YouTube video every week and.
Then in that case. Like YouTube videos?
You're not. Give me joy.
See the things you hear on this right?
She just dropped another. Did she really say that she just
gave up YouTube? Yes.
You don't have to be everywhere now, do you?
(34:17):
Julie? I.
Mean someone is like taking all the content that we created over
years and repurposing it. But Katrina, I don't have to get
in front of a camera, memorize and put on full face and do
this. No, no, not doing it anymore.
So, but the beautiful thing is, is that you've got content
you've created like what, last 41/2 years exactly?
So now we're. Just repurpose.
(34:38):
People feel like you've got to come up with new crap every
single day. If it's if it's in your brand
language, repurpose. Yeah, and nobody can remember
it. Was not giving me joy.
Issues. If you guys can see Julie's
face, she's like, no, that that was a rubber band stretch that
literally it snapped. And you know, when I was waiting
for that magical pop that peoplekept talking about, I'm like,
(35:00):
Pop's not coming. I'm not waiting for pop anymore.
It's just gonna happen. You're just gonna take off.
You're gonna go vertical. It's like, yeah, but it.
Well, see, The thing is, is it never will because it doesn't
bring you joy. Yeah, yeah.
Like I think we try to force ourselves to do things that do
not bring us joy. And this is another thing about
(35:21):
being an entrepreneur is I had Ilearned it's not about managing
my time, it's about managing my energy.
Say that again. That was beautiful.
So it's just, it's not about, oh, this is how much time I need
to spend on something. It's just what are the things
that give me energy and one of the things that take away energy
and the things that take away energy, I need to delegate that,
right? I need to have project
management takes away energy, soI'm not gonna do that.
(35:43):
I'm gonna have someone else to do who?
People on my someone on my team who loves organizing the Google
Drive. Oh, thank goodness, because I
don't. Those are my blue printers, my
blue printers out in the world. Thank God for you that love
Excel sheets and organization. But the things that give me
energy is I'm a writer. That's the reason why I started
my business. I want to commercialize my
content. And so that gives me joy.
And that's something I'm uniquely positioned to do.
(36:05):
And so I think really constantlymonitoring what gives you, what
gives me energy and what doesn'tgive me energy.
And because I have to, I'm superprotective of that, actually.
Thank you for that. And I want you ladies to model
that and I want you to hear thattoo.
Sounds like I want a desire for you to model that because your
energy is the most precious thing you have as a female.
(36:27):
Actually, it's a human human, any human being.
But I feel like it's so much Julia, that we just, we just
throw that energy around and we don't ever refill it.
What's your favorite way to reset your energy?
Oh my gosh, lazing around turning off the phone and
reading novels. I'm a big library card user.
(36:47):
I love fiction. I love historical fiction.
It's it's the cheapest and easiest way to time and space
travel. Agree.
And so. Anything fiction.
Yes. And so for me, I will spend a
whole day where it's just phone off in bed and I'm a fast reader
so. Hey if.
(37:08):
You've been talking to anyone. No, if you've been, if you were,
I mean, I could read a book a day cause I've, I've just been
reading for so long that there'stimes you just kind of either
speed read or you just kind of get the gist of it and you're
moving on through the whole thing.
So that for me, I, I think you dropped so many truth bombs.
I not even think I know you dropped so many truth bombs in
here is there? And I know you've got a gift for
(37:30):
the those that are listening. So there is the free 7 forms of
Respect crash course. Yeah, Crash.
Go onto yeah. So you can go onto my website,
curiositybase.com, and we have afree crash course on how to
approach difficult conversationswith Curiosity.
You get access for it for two weeks.
And so sign up. It's just and it's just 20
(37:51):
minutes. It's got some work, so yeah.
I love it and it's gonna be in the show notes because we got
the podcast. And like Julie says, I love
doing podcasts because AI can post it in one place and it gets
done all for me. So I'm a lazy marketer.
It's what I call myself and I'm really proud of it.
And the other place you can findthis is on YouTube.
But those will all be in the show notes and to find Julie to
(38:11):
connect with her. And I will say one thing for
sure, if you are in business andyou're struggling in any area,
whether it's the money, your marketing, your personal brand,
any of that, this respect crash course is going to give you a
right Julie, like just ways to really dive into your inner self
(38:33):
because we didn't really talk about community, but we say
self-awareness, relationship building.
Communication skills Communication.
Skills communication I did have.Communication skills that
listen, Communication skills. So that's communicating.
Basket of communications yes, but communication is the big
piece of this so yeah, but thankyou so much for being on with
us. I mean this is a fantastic.
(38:54):
I hope you guys got some really good Nuggets cuz I did cuz she's
so good at asking curiosity questions and getting me to
think over here. So thank you for your time.
I appreciate you for those listening in definitely connect
with her, reach out to her and spend some time getting to know
her. Her links and everything are
going to be down here in the show notes and we'll see you on
the next episode.
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