December 8, 2025 • 37 mins
Episode Summary
In this episode of "Did She Really Say That?" host Katrina van Oudheusden is joined by Donna Riccardo, a public speaking coach and master communicator from Red Stiletto. Donna shares her transformation journey from a nervous and introverted hairdresser to a renowned public speaker and seminar leader, discussing the challenges and triumphs along the way. The conversation offers insights into the power of finding your voice, the importance of storytelling, and strategies to elevate your public speaking skills, especially for women.
Key Discussion Points
The Importance of Using Your Voice: Katrina and Donna discuss the importance of women embracing their voice to grow their presence and brand.
Donna's Transformation Story: Donna shares her journey from being terrified of speaking to becoming a public speaker, detailing how she overcame the fear.
The Role of Toastmasters and Other Resources: Donna highlights the importance of resources like Toastmasters for developing communication and leadership skills.
Women in Public Speaking: Differences between men and women in terms of confidence, voice, and representation in public speaking.
Storytelling and Engagement: Creating connections through eye contact, storytelling, and audience engagement.
Struggles and Learning as an Entrepreneur: Donna talks about the challenges she faced while transitioning into a business owner, with a focus on embracing technology and effective marketing.
Guest Bio
Donna Riccardo: A distinguished Toastmaster and NLP practitioner, Donna has over 30 years of experience in public speaking. She runs Red Stiletto, focusing on empowering women to find their voice and speak confidently. Her unique coaching style stems from her diverse experience in hairdressing, event-speaking, and personal development.
Recommended Resources
Toastmasters International: A platform for learning public speaking and leadership skills.
Book by Donna Riccardo: Public Speaking for Entrepreneurs: How to Show Up, Speak Up and Get What You Want for Your Business and Life.
Red Stiletto Website: Red Stiletto
Visit Donna's website Red Stiletto here to download her free "Top 10 Speaking Tips to Keep Your Audience Hanging on to Every Word."
Listen to this insightful conversation to find inspiration and practical steps to elevate your speaking journey! Stay tuned for more empowering episodes of "Did She Really Say That?"
Thanks for listening! If you are enjoying our podcast, leave a comment below. We love hearing from our fans and other female entrepreneurs! We are collaborating to make business better for every woman! Feel free to share this podcast on your favorite social platform. And if you are listening on any of the podcast platforms, we would love it if you could post a 5-star review. Please, help us get our message out! Together, we discover how each woman has the power to unlock another woman when we are open about what we are redefining as women in business.
About Your Host: Katrina van Oudheusden
Former Chef at Walt Disney World® Resort, Restaurateur, Speaker, and CEO of Truth Bomb Marketing. Katrina is a sought-after consultant for small business growth among female entrepreneurs.
She created a revolutionary business training method called ‘CreatHER™ Business Rewire’. Weaving together time, money, and business growth by preventing burnout and strengthening female leadership skills.
Alongside the CreatHER™ Planner, women are finally experiencing less stress in all areas of their lives. When the focus begins with HERself, women discover a freedom to dream big, increase revenue, and design a marketing strategy that works for them.
CreatHer Money Revolution: http://creathersummit.com
Blog: https://truthbombmarketing.com/blog
CreatHER Planner: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-planner-2026
CreatHER Reset: https://truthbombmarketing.com/reset
CreatHER Business Rewire:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to this episode of Did She Really Say That?
We're having a conversation withDonna today around speaking
ladies. If you're looking to grow your
presence, your awareness, your brand, you actually have to
start freaking using your voice,right?
Donna's like that. Yeah.
If you don't have a voice, I don't know what you're doing.
And I don't know if you're hiding out or being scared, But
(00:24):
like, we're gonna really bust through a lot of this.
And only because I know Donna and some of her background, we
share some similar languaging inour world together.
So I'm like, this is gonna be a brutally honest, fun and
entertaining conversation. So stay tuned for this.
So who is Donna? You're gonna wanna know this.
So she's a naturally an introvert.
(00:44):
So I wanted to ask, is there an unnatural introvert?
Just wanted to know. So you're just a naturally an
introvert. She was once terrified of
people. Like she couldn't even look
someone in the eye or even talk to them at the same time.
So, you know, eye contact, no speaking.
No. So OK, great.
Now you're a public speaker. So now we know what you couldn't
do. She likes to say it was divine
(01:07):
intervention that led her to speak because there was no
earthly reason ever for her to take a stage and put herself in
that kind of an awkward, uncomfortable, terrifying
situation. Like who wants to do that?
Ladies, seriously? But there's some magic on the
other side of this, right? She's dealt with an overcome her
fear, become a seminar leader for one of the top personal
(01:27):
growth and development companiesin the world.
I will tell you that takes something.
I know what she went through. God bless her cuz man, that is
some work all right. She's a trained NLP
practitioner, which is a neuro linguistic programming.
So words are important to some ladies.
The words you use super, super important.
(01:50):
She's a 13 year veteran of Toastmasters.
If you guys don't know what Toastmasters is, you absolutely
need to get into it for, especially for public speaking.
She has been known as the, you know, she has earned the highest
award of a distinguished Toastmasters.
Hats off to you, Donna. Oh, look at you.
She's doing good. Like you didn't see that, but
she did the whole little cutesy thing.
(02:12):
She's an active mentor for the national Speak Your Association,
which we just were talking aboutbefore we jumped onto this
podcast live episode. She's a best selling author of
public speaking for entrepreneurs.
How to show up, speak up and getwhat you want for your business
and your life. Boom.
So she's been doing this for over 30 years.
That's enough accolades. We really know that at this
point. Donna, you're like the bomb
(02:33):
diggity. Welcome.
Thank you. So this terrifying journey of
not being able to look somebody in the eye to now taking and and
being on this journey of public speaking.
Share that with us. I'm curious.
My goodness. Well, it started in my original
career where I was a hairdresser, as you mentioned,
(02:55):
and I had this strong desire to teach and somehow my little
brain did not put teaching and public speaking together in the
same experience because I went to beauty school, not college or
somewhere I might have encountered speaking or the bait
Club or anything like that. And then an opportunity came up
at my salon, which we were a world known salon in the fashion
(03:20):
and beauty field at the time. And we were doing a big hair 2
day hair show. And this opportunity, I'm like,
oh, here's an opportunity to teach.
OK, go be on stage and I'll get to, you know, do a haircut and
demonstrate some of the things I've learned.
It'll be great. And at the time, we were known
around the world like every major fashion magazine famous,
(03:40):
you know, rock stars came in, supermodel came in and, you
know, so very high profile. And then I found myself on stage
with the 2 owners of the salon and very also, you know, high
profile big names in the industry at the time.
And I had asked a few people that I work with, like, what do
I say? The people who did this sort of
(04:00):
thing, what do I say? Like I don't know what to do.
I never did this. Like, oh, you just talk about
what you're doing while you're doing it.
So then my turn comes and I get introduced and I'm just
completely terrified and freakedout.
And I mumble a couple things andthe people in the front row
start calling out. We can't hear, we can't hear.
So the the owner, he's like amazing man, gently takes the
(04:22):
microphone from me, says I'll speak for her.
She has the soft voice. And so he did he like the
haircut, he did the talking. And you know, there's more to
this story, but that's enough for now.
But I was not OK with that because I still had something I
really wanted to give and I and I needed to figure out how to do
it because I wasn't OK that I was so terrified I went mute.
(04:45):
So that was the beginning. Yeah, And I think there's
something in there. It's like when you find yourself
going mute, you do have this internal voice that's screaming,
I have something more to say. And at the same time, you're
terrified to say it. And I think that resonates with
a lot of the audience, a lot of women that listens because I
think we're all in that situation at some point in our
(05:05):
career, in our lives, in our opportunities is that we we get
into this place. It's like I really have
something to say and I'm silent in this.
So you evolved that so you know that you have something to say.
So how did you breakthrough and transition Donna?
This, this sense of now I have. Speaker I am scared to be on
(05:28):
stage. How do you overcome that?
Well, I think training is huge. So where do you go get training?
There are no natural born that you know, like great, like the
great late Dale Carnegie who I, you know, is known for speaking,
he said. Great speakers are not born.
They are most definitely trained, right.
(05:49):
And so something else. I actually left that salon.
I went to another salon situation because they sent
people out to train and I hadn'tdone anything in between though.
So they send me out on the road.Same thing happens again.
They did not invite me to go on the road again after that, but
that's when it went Ding, Ding, Ding, I need to go learn.
So I started with joining Toastmasters.
(06:10):
So that's where you can learn and get the practice and
feedback, honest feedback from the other members.
So that's what I started with. So did you start Toastmasters
before you did some of our leadership?
Way before. Way before.
So you had been like investing in Toastmasters and tell us a
little bit about Toastmasters. I know this is not like a
(06:31):
Toastmaster selling type of a thing, but for those that don't
know what it is, why is it important to kind of get into
the the Toastmasters club from from your perspective?
Yeah, well, the interesting thing about Toastmasters is
actually the name of it is Toastmasters Communication and
Leadership. It's not Toastmasters, public
speaking clubs, but that's what,yeah.
(06:52):
OK, I learned something new. Thanks Tata.
I just got, I just got trained. But that but that the vehicle is
the clubs. So there are clubs that meet
anywhere from like once a week to once a month and they meet
anywhere from one hour to two hours.
And every club is different. And I would say if you check it
out, check out one that you can go to consistently participate
(07:16):
full day and make sure that you are doing the program 'cause
there's actually like a program,there's a method to the madness.
So that is that's huge, right? And just just participate.
So there is so with us and I don't know much because I, I've
heard of it. I've actually spoken at one of
their events, but actually neverparticipated in it.
(07:36):
So that's, that's on me. But there is actually a program
to run through with them. That's good to know because it
always felt like you're just kind of going into the club and
I, I did understand that there was kind of like a format in
which you do, because I know they invite guests, they have
you come listen, you get to kindof hear as others present.
So I was that's definitely an interesting piece to learn.
(07:58):
And all of the clubs, you know, let's say I recommend finding a
few that fit your schedule again, ones you can go to
consistently. And they're like a family.
You know, everyone's a little different.
The culture of everyone is a little different.
Some of them are going to do it.There's like a way to do it
right. Some of them will do it that
way. Others maybe not so much little
loosey goosey. They don't those clubs because
(08:21):
they they are very inconsistent and you may not get what you
want there. OK, so this leads me to this
question because I know when we first met and had our our
initial conversation, I asked about the red stiletto behind
you because your entire website is this red stiletto.
So you are now transforming fromspeaker hair salon and now
you're getting into a red stiletto.
(08:42):
So tell me about how you came upwith this as your business and
brand. I'm super curious.
But I mean, it's probably like in my jeans because I was in the
fashion and beauty business in New York City, right?
So I just always love that That's like in me, right?
I love shoes and I don't there was I don't, there's not a
direct thing. It happened.
You know, I was like, I'm done doing hair.
(09:04):
I can't do the seminar leader training anything because it's
super long days and six days a week.
And I got nothing else. And I knew I already knew I
wanted to help people with theirspeaking because that's what I
had struggled with for so long. And really on the other side,
and I know that, you know, no one's ever died from public
speaking, first of all, and 2nd,that it can be learned, right?
Because clearly I learned it. And I was talking to the coach
(09:27):
friend one day talking about like, oh, what's next?
What are we going to do? And I told him what I just said
about wanting to help mostly women, you know, really starting
with women because I'm a woman and I can relate to that world
of people. And it just came to me red
stiletto get to the point, I'm going to help people with their
public speaking, women with their public speaking.
(09:48):
And I'm going to go to my, you know, I'll go to networking
events and wear my, my red heelsand people will know me.
And like, now I've had it long enough that happened.
Somebody will come over and go, oh, I saw you from behind.
I saw the shoes. I knew that was you.
And I will tell you, well, that works for visibility.
It's not a business plan. It's not stilettos.
As much as I love them, walking around them in 24/7 is not a
(10:09):
business plan. But they are freaking adorable
and amazing, so yes. Yeah.
So that's, that's how it started.
And it wasn't time at that time,but it never left me.
And so several years later when I went, Yep, now is the time to
get out from behind that chair and get out in front of the
people. That was what there was to do.
(10:30):
So you're focusing on women, teaching them to speak.
Why women? Like what have you learned
between maybe the difference between men and women in terms
of speaking? Have are we softer in voice or
are we not owning our voice on stage?
What, what has you kind of led to supporting and really wanting
to work with women on their public speaking?
Well, the sure easy answer is yes, yes and yes.
(10:52):
OK, so women, they get a little squirrely, right?
They get a little squirrely and I think some hide behind being a
mom, even though hello public speaking will advance your
career, but they they feel more uncertain or who knows what
reason they just do. If you just look like here's the
(11:12):
the simple example outside the world of speaking like a like a
job interview a man like like half of those things.
I'm going to apply. Women go, OK, I only have 90%.
I don't think I should right. It's like that.
So. True.
Men are men are much more, for whatever reason, the way they're
brought up, the culture or the type of human they are, I'm not
sure, but they're just much morelikely.
(11:34):
Not like I haven't met nervous men.
I certainly have, but you know that they're much more likely to
just be willing to just jump up and do it, say it, go for it.
And women are not. And yes, they do more softly.
Yes, they are more uncertain. They're unclear about their
message. I've met a lot of women who who
(11:55):
like to me, like them so clear. They have something so powerful
to share, right? And so valuable for the world,
and they don't think it is. Yeah, I hear that a lot too, is
I don't know if I'm ready. I don't know if I have something
to say. Why would somebody want to
listen to me? I hear that a lot from women.
(12:17):
I even met like a three star general, first female feed three
star general in the military. And she's like, yeah, I don't
know if I'd write a book. I'm not sure I really have
something to say. It's just what I did.
It's just what I did. Like we don't own anything.
It's just like there's like thisexpectation.
That's that's just what we do aswomen.
(12:38):
Like, why would I write a book by But I take the stage around
it. Like, yeah, if you guys are
missing, Donna's missing her shaking her head, like, yes.
So share, share some of your thoughts around that.
Which part of that? So just around what has us kind
of not step up into that? What are you like?
(12:58):
And when you're working with women, what is it that you know?
If we're not stepping up into that, if we're not owning our
voice, how do you work with us to own that?
Well, I think what I do is, and I'm sure different people do it
different ways, but what I do first is just have them talk
about what they're passionate about and just have them get
really in touch with it. I think a lot of times what
(13:20):
happens is they get out of touchwith it like they know they are.
And in some cases like, oh, that's just who I am.
No, yeah, yes, it is just who you are.
But no, don't invalidate that because there's no other you
right? It is who you are and they get
in their heads about it is a huge 1 instead of being
connected to their experience and they're hurt about it and
they're feeling about it and what's important to them about
(13:43):
it. They get they're too close to it
sometimes or other times they'rejust too in their heads about it
and not really like connected inside themselves with what's
the meaning of it for them. Do you work with them through
their story, like what they're going to say and how they're
going to present on stage? Like I know that some of your
background deals with like tearing apart stories and
(14:04):
redefining or re crafting your story.
So do you use some of that, I guess technology and such as you
work with women in crafting their story, crafting your
speech? Absolutely.
If I'm working with, even if I'mnot working with entrepreneurs,
stories are so important becausethey bring anything you're
saying to life. Because ultimately we're all
human and we share human experience.
Like the way my version of it isgonna look different than your
(14:26):
version of it, but the human experience of it will be the
same, right? It will be a similar feeling.
And that's what people relate to.
So I always, if I'm working withwomen entrepreneurs, I always
start with we tell their story. And if they're an entrepreneur
who has come from their business, has come from their
experience, then they need to tell that story.
(14:47):
And that's because that's the connection that people have
like, oh, you've been there. OK, yes, I can trust you.
Oh, you were afraid of speaking,and I'm afraid of speaking.
Now you're not. So yes, I can trust you, right.
Kind of like that. And it's like that for
everything. You know, people know you've
been there, they know you can help them.
At you know the very least you get it.
Yeah. And I think that's the the
(15:09):
beautiful thing when you start being a speaker and you're
taking the stage is that relatability and that ability to
connect to that audience. So you really want to develop
that story looking back at your experiences, your skill set.
And so here's a question I do have sometimes, and I've I've
been part of different speaker groups and I feel like some
speakers go back really far intotheir childhood to pull
(15:32):
something forward to something that may be happening in their
workplace. Like I feel like we'd go back a
little too far. Is there is there something
about going too far back into your story, something that may
be a little bit closerly that happened maybe in your teens,
20s earlier? Is, is there kind of like a a
good point, like a good time frame to she's shaking her yet?
(15:54):
Yeah. So what would that look like?
Yeah, I don't dig around in people's past, right.
I don't honestly, like you're saying, to your point, I don't
think people are really that interested or really care unless
it's relevant to what you do now.
OK. So usually I, I don't know if
I've ever really had that to go back very far.
I go back far enough to to show the transition like how they got
(16:17):
from where they were to what they're doing now and why people
should trust them as, you know, somebody that can help them.
Yeah, I think that's what you said, the transition.
What did you go through yourself?
Where were you before? What caused the transition?
What where did you start to shift?
What might have changed that? And then what did you come out
of it afterwards? So we sometimes we call that the
(16:37):
hero's journey. I hear for women it's called the
heroine journey. Like I really do like when we
bring in the female side of thatpart of it.
But I think that's a big piece when you're looking at, you
know, why do I take the stage? OK, then that leads to the
question, why is public speakingone of the most feared things
that we take on? If you're talking about
storytelling and just relating our life, why is speaking such a
(17:00):
why is it the number one fear? I think it still is, arguably,
but I think it still is. And 75% of people do have some
version of that fear and that's equal amongst men and women.
So I have my theories about it. Let's hear.
Can I hear your theories? Are you allowed to share
theories? I made them up, so of course you
can. OK, then I want to hear your
made-up theories about what thisis, so I'm super curious.
(17:23):
And it's also based on observation of myself and
others, right? I don't know if I told you this,
but I'm also trained as an energy healer.
So just to bring a little woo woo in there.
I like it OK. There is an energetic element to
a speaker and and the energy that you need is your own right?
You need to be connected to yourown energy and that's what gives
(17:44):
people power and present. And so there's two main things
that I see and observed and I even in myself that have people
be afraid. One is they're not connected to
themselves and their own energy and their own life force and
their own beingness, if you will, right there.
It's connected and they're up intheir heads about it and they're
not down in their body about it.And the other one is so that
(18:07):
will have people be afraid for sure.
And then the other one is they're not prepared.
They're either not prepared or insufficient, patiently
prepared, and they think they are and they're not.
And you can't get up there and wing it.
Your audience knows, unless you're with your family at
Thanksgiving. Your audience knows and they
feel disrespected, like, oh, shedidn't even bother to prepare.
(18:27):
Like she's just kind of talking,you know, just dream of
consciousness coming out. Like, that's just not
interesting for anyone. You have to prepare.
It has to be organized, it has to be structured, easy to
follow, and you have to be connected in your own self.
And if people don't have either one or both of those, they're
going to be nervous. I can see that, which leads to
(18:47):
the question around that you said, you know, you need to have
a format as a way of communicating, which is clarity.
So why is clarity and really knowing to understand what
you're presenting And I guess you even want like an outcome of
your your conversation. So why is that such a big piece,
that clarity piece? Well, because people are
(19:08):
listening, right? They're watching usually and
listening to you, and they need to be able to follow along.
They don't have your line in front of you, in front of them,
right? They don't have notes.
And you know, even the even the flies, the flies should be
mostly pictures, right? You should never put a sea of
words on your slides. Ever.
(19:29):
Ever. I've seen that.
I have actually been. I told the speaker that one
time. It was literally a whole thing.
It was like a breakdown of theirentire somatical thinking
process. I got so caught up in the tiny
print and everything else, I think I lost 1010 minutes of her
or 5 minutes of her presentation.
I was completely zoned out because I wasn't even aware she
(19:49):
was on the stage. That's right.
And because that's what happens,people are reading the slides
instead of listening to you. In that case, why bother getting
up in front of people? Because just send them your
slides or just send them to yourwebsite.
Don't even bother saying anything.
What makes it interesting is theperson and their view.
They have to say their delivery and their engagement or
(20:10):
engagement. That's a huge one too.
I think things are also transitioning towards less just
talking and more engagement. So talk, talk to me about that
one because I know like we've before in the world of speaking,
when I was growing up, it was all motivational speaking.
So it literally was somebody talking at you.
It was like, you need to do thisand this helps you get up.
(20:31):
Like it was this super. Now you're talking engagement.
So how do you create that engagement?
Yeah, let me, let me just ask you something that way you just
said. Can I ask you?
Yeah. Tell me one, one person that was
the motivational speaker. You saw that you remember what
they said and implemented it andit made a difference.
(20:53):
No, not a single. One nobody, exactly.
I mean, I've seen those people too.
Like it's all great, Jack. Canfield's the Les Brown.
Like I'll throw on names becauseI have seen them like Tony
Robbins. I've seen all these guys do
these great motivational speakers.
I've seen Sharon Stone or what is her name?
Anyways, I've heard of other people that have gone through
(21:15):
and they've said great things. Yay feel good.
Walked away with nothing. Nothing.
It's it's like that rah rah and it's that moment of high, which
is nice for that moment. But you know, really like most
speakers, there are some speakers that have the ego and
upward. It's like, I just want I could
say my thing and have people getit, but I think ultimately now
(21:38):
being around the speaker community and we've actually
talked about this, they mostly want to make a difference.
They have people positively and Rah.
Rah isn't going to do it. Yeah.
Not long term, not beyond that hour.
So how do you engage your audience?
Like what does, what are some tips around engaging your
audience? Because here's what I'll tell
(21:59):
you for those that are listeningon this podcast, what she's
telling you, what she might share with you, not only is
effective as a speaker, but evenin your social media posts and
things like that. If you're doing live videos,
these are some of the things that I, I know that you can,
that can help you too. But so how do you what, how do
you create engagement as a speaker in front of a large
audience? Kind of a thing like what do you
kind of what do you mean by engagement?
(22:20):
I guess like yelling back at you, raising their hands.
Yeah, yeah, like that, so. That just sounds too simple.
It really is. It's like, hello, there's a
person in front of you. You cannot hide behind a screen
and create engagement. Well, actually, that's not true
on social media. We'll come back to the in person
part. OK, Social media, you can do
(22:42):
that, right? You're in the privacy of your
own computer and you can write your stuff.
And engagement there would look like asking questions and
responding, right? And having literally an online
conversation, right? That's what online, that's what
engagement to look like There OKvideos also.
OK. Social media, again, with
questions, you know, reactions, responding back and forth.
(23:05):
So in person, it's the same thing.
You're asking questions, you're getting responses from the
audience. What you do have to be alert to
in person, though, is have some idea, a very good idea of what
kinds of things people might sayand if they say something else,
right? So you got to be a little more
on your toes, you know, think onyour feet when you're speaking
(23:29):
in person. Come down at the audience, but
not not too far because you don't want like, you know, a
whole bunch of people now looking at the back of you,
right? So if you come down, go back,
stay mostly in the front. And here's a big one, eye
contact, eye contact. You can only see, say you have a
big auditorium, a big conferencething, and you can only see, you
(23:50):
know, like the first row, maybe you can't see any because of the
light, but that's a huge and I don't think that's who we're
talking to right here, right? That's a huge thing right there.
That's its own world, right? But you find people that you can
see and if you've got the big thing and all you have are stage
lights, then you try to, you know, know kind of where they
are and you kind of pretend you're looking at them.
But I contacted huge and I'm huge and I'm not talking about
(24:12):
looking at the top of their eyebrows.
You. Actually mean talking like into
their eyeballs. Yeah, yes.
Yeah, I'm not the bridge of their nose, not their hairline,
not something that's not their eyeballs, because people know.
They know not when you're not looking at them.
Then people are not that gum, right?
And here's another thing that about eye contact, and this is
probably the biggest thing of all of it, is that eye contact
(24:35):
creates connection, right? Yes.
With that person. If it's a large group, you're
not going to get to everybody. Just find somebody, talk to them
for three to five seconds, a sentence or two, a thought.
Don't stick with them too long because that would be weird.
Don't make it awkward, OK? Don't make it awkward and
awkward for them or the audience.
Go go to different people and and then they, the person you're
(24:58):
talking to will feel that like talk to that person.
You can't talk to like the wholeas if they're one.
You've got to talk to the one asif they're the whole, right?
Talk to that person and the roomwill feel it because we are all
connected and you have to do anything you can do to create
connection because that's where people get you.
(25:20):
They get what you have to say. They feel like you care about
them, they feel like they matterand they feel importance in what
you're saying. And so that could look like
handouts, worksheets. You can change it up all the
time. That's something a lot of people
say. Change it up every 7 minutes.
Change it up. Engage with people, ask them
(25:41):
questions, have them participate.
So I'm gonna change the conversation a little bit here.
So you have gone from consulting, speaking, you're
running your own business. What's it been like for you?
Like what are some of the challenges you've come up
against as a business owner creating a business around
teaching, speaking? Technology.
(26:07):
Tell me more. I know everything I did before I
got my hands and people's hair and I was a, you know, personal
development trainer. What about the technology in any
of that? Like I could hardly even use my
phone right now. I, you know, I have to learn how
to do the social media and I'm, I'm in the process of putting a
recording a program that I'm going to put in an online
(26:28):
platform, you know, a little on networking.
That's a whole other realm of speaking.
People don't realize it, but it is.
And just, you know, like having to record it.
How do I do the slides and the recording And, you know, like,
do I really need to pay somebodyto do that?
Can I just, you know, just it's like the technology, There's so
much of it. There's yeah.
(26:50):
And there's so much committed all the time.
Like I think every single day there's a new piece of
technology that's created or rethought or reimagined.
And now we have. AI Oh my God, AI right?
Like just shoot me now. I have a love hate relationship
with AI. There's times when I love it and
times I'm like, dear Lord, I don't want to.
I don't want to have anything todo with you right now, so, well,
(27:12):
I know you didn't. Write anything.
I use it more for. Brainstorming.
I would never have AI write something for me.
Yeah, I agree. I think brainstorming is a good
it's a great tool for brainstorming.
It's a great tool for giving youideas and a place to start.
But I don't think it's the thinker of humanity that
everyone's trying to push it towards like this massive main
(27:33):
brain know it all. Like, Nope, let's not play that
game. So technology, anything else
that you would if you could share with women like that?
Some of the other things besidestechnology that kind of felt you
stumped or you wish you had known when you were
transitioning from, you know, employee into this entrepreneur
or business owner phase. Well, how much time do we have?
(27:56):
We've got about 5 minutes left. Well, I.
Think that so marketing actuallywe trained a lot in sales.
So those those sales conversations are a big, I meant
some entrepreneur groups and that's what they challenge for
people. But that's that's not really
been a challenge for me, but that is something people need.
(28:16):
They need it they like it or notthey need it.
Sales training is possible well.Toastmasters, I would think you
learn to sell even in within theleadership and development, you
learn to sell. Enroll the different language
for it. But that is critical.
I think if you're going to become an entrepreneur building
your own business, that is a skill set for sure.
OK, anything else? And that's part of this part of
(28:38):
the. Speaking right, you have to have
the conviction in what you are offering to be able to speak to
it confidently. But marketing, which I actually
think if I had, so this is kind of a two party answer. 1 is if I
had known all the things that I didn't know that I needed to
know ahead of time, I don't knowif I would have still done this.
I probably would have, but I'd rather struggle with all this
(28:58):
than work for somebody else, right?
And so, you know, that's still my stance on all of it.
But I really think that marketing and copywriting and
you know, that aspect of the sales and marketing, I actually
think it's very interesting and but again, very challenging
because I'm not a marketer. It's.
Interesting though, because you do NRA, you are you are trained
(29:20):
in an LNLP. Yeah, which for me.
Going back and learning is a lotof a copywriting is so
copywriting is understanding that neuralistic programming,
what words get us to take an action, what phrasing of words
to take an action. So it's interesting because when
you say that, I think there's, there's still an like a skill
(29:42):
set. You still have it and it's just
looking at it, how it shows up alittle different in terms of how
your marketing and your sales goes, because that is a big
piece of the world of understanding marketing and why
people buy. Yeah, it's it's.
It's actually it's it is sales, but it's also psychology, which
(30:04):
I think is very interesting. And also the copywriting is
words and I love words. So I think that that of like
naturally interested in that, but I haven't really done a
whole lot of the actual trainingof it, like learning it like in
pieces as needed. Yeah.
And I think. That's part of our journey as
(30:24):
an, as a business owner, as a female, you know, somebody
that's owning their business is that it is the journey.
We weren't gifted, like you said, you weren't gifted with
the ability to speak. It can be developed and trained.
Same thing as a business owner, you're being trained and
developed as a business owner. You're going to have, you know,
things that set you back and things that grow forward.
And that's, that's part of your journey.
That actually is what makes you unique and what you present.
(30:47):
You know when you say you know where you're the red still, you
get to the point that is you working with women and having
that conversation. These are all things that you
learn and every client like for me, I know every client that I
bring on, I learn something fromthem as much as they learn
something from me. I feel like it's a mutual, it
becomes like a collaboration experience more so than
(31:07):
anything. Absolutely.
Actually, I've helped people write talks, you know, writing.
I do a done with you for them towrite a signature talk that they
can give to various places of their ideal client.
And that's what the signature talk is.
And I have no idea what some of them do and I have no idea.
I still I'm not really entirely clear and I have no idea what I
(31:31):
never even heard of it before. Like this guy, he this one guy,
he does something called ITAM. I don't even remember what that
stands for. And I know that he helps.
He helps big companies avoid bigtrouble.
When we wrote a whole talk, you know, we wrote a whole talk
about it. It was so interesting.
I learned a lot that I don't remember and I just finished
(31:52):
helping somebody. She's an insurance and we just
wrote a talk together about likeI like, I now need to look at
certain things about my insurance because what I learned
from her, right, just different things.
Like a guy has a drone. Did you know that drone pilots
go through the same, They have to take the same test as an
airline pilot that flies an airplane in the air.
They take the same test. They just don't take the same
flying test. They take the same written test.
(32:14):
Interesting. Did not know that you know.
So all kinds of different thingsI've helped people with and it's
kind of cool 'cause I don't needto know anything about what they
do 'cause they tell me they, I pull it out of them, I make it,
make them. I love it, I love it.
So as you wrap up, 'cause I knowwe are kind of getting to our
time, but we, I love this Donna,you and I could talk forever on
just business talking. Everything else.
I know we've connected over this, but you do have a gift for
(32:36):
our audience. It's top ten, top 10 tips.
So kind of tell me a little bit more about that one for our
audience. Oh, so top 10.
Speaking tips to keep your audience hanging on to every
word you're. Giving this away, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm on the edge of my seat just.
Waiting for you to just so you know, tell me a little bit more
about this now. So that's giving away.
(32:58):
So so there's. You know, there's a lot of
place. You can get tips, you know, like
forget your arms and odds, you know, don't do that.
But I say some things in there and explain why.
So it's like a do's and don'ts or don'ts and do and things that
you don't normally commonly hear.
And so I put all those together just from observing people and
seeing what they feel like. Oh, that didn't work.
(33:19):
You can't say Google it to your audience.
Like that's rude. Oh yeah, very experienced.
Sorry, shocked. Shocked face over here, very
experienced speaker. He's talking.
About something that maybe half the audience might not have
known. And he's like, and if you don't
know what that is, Google it. You know you can't do that.
You can't do that and. If you can, if one.
(33:41):
If you want to like, annoy people, 2.
If you want to alienate people, and three, if you want them all
to get on their phone right thenDang.
So yeah, like. There's there's yes, there's
things you don't commonly hear, OK.
And I love that without that. So ladies that are listening
like I want you to understand that she actually said a lot of
(34:01):
things during did she not? Did she really say that right?
First off, get out of your own head.
And she really said that she's going to tell you to get to the
point with a red stiletto. She might even stick the heel up
you and kick you in the butt a little bit, which I think is
awesome. Sometimes we need to kick in the
pants ladies in the tushy to getus going because and I think the
other thing is when you work with a female speaker like Donna
(34:24):
and you get the opportunity to, her background is really
phenomenal. You'll get to know more about
her and what she's really developed with with her, her
coaching and her speaking because it gives her an unfair
advantage in a lot of ways. And it really gives her a
different perspective. And I think if as you're
developing your speaking skills,there's a lot of a lot of
coaches out there that claim they can teach you how to get on
(34:45):
stage and speak. But I just in my relationship
with who I know Donna is and thetime that I met her, I would say
reach out to her if it's something that interests you on
how to create your signature talk, how to put together even a
presentation to even just strengthen your own ability and
your own confidence in yourself to really design what it is that
your business is like. She can walk you through that
(35:06):
there. Her skill set is freaking
phenomenal. Got met all right, grab the 10
tips learn how to keep you on the gadget their seats, because
this is literally if you're going to grow to six and seven
figures, these are the skill sets you're going to want to
learn learning how to sell learning how to speak learning
how to speak confidently learning your clarity
(35:28):
understanding your story and your messaging.
These are all key elements and women, I, This is why we're
having women here on this, on this podcast is because I want
you to connect with these women,these extraordinary women that
are here to support, help you and evolve you.
Women love to engage. When we're talking about
engagement, we do it 10,000 times better than the men.
(35:48):
And I know it's a slight exaggeration, but I truly
believe it and we're inclusive and I think that's what we
really need. And for those of you that are
considering being on stage, get on stage.
You have a voice. We need to hear it.
So any last words of brilliant wisdom over there, Donna, that
you wanna leave our audience with?
Yes. And it came it's.
(36:09):
Coming right out of what you just said on stage does not mean
in a big auditorium with hundreds of people.
You're a new speaker. Hint.
Nobody's gonna bring you into that.
No background, No, you know, no credibility, no experience, no
nothing. Start with networking groups.
You're gonna on the same level as they in the same room and
(36:30):
you're going to be able to see them eyeball to eyeball.
So networking groups are great and and service clubs like
Kiwanis or Rotary, those are great places to begin and
they're always looking for speakers.
This they are. That is so true.
Well, I thank you so much for your time today for jumping in
on our podcast. Did she really say that?
(36:51):
I love her conversation. Listeners give her a thumbs up,
engage with the show, leave a comment, ask questions.
She will definitely love to to hear from you Connect with her.
All of her information is in ourshow notes, so you definitely
want to connect with her there. And we will definitely see you
all on our next episode. Donna, thank you again for your
time and absolute pleasure. And did she really say that?
(37:13):
Yes, Donna, she did. Donna really said that to you.
Listen in, ladies.
Welcome to this episode of Did She Really Say That?
We're having a conversation withDonna today around speaking
ladies. If you're looking to grow your
presence, your awareness, your brand, you actually have to
start freaking using your voice,right?
Donna's like that. Yeah.
If you don't have a voice, I don't know what you're doing.
And I don't know if you're hiding out or being scared, But
(00:24):
like, we're gonna really bust through a lot of this.
And only because I know Donna and some of her background, we
share some similar languaging inour world together.
So I'm like, this is gonna be a brutally honest, fun and
entertaining conversation. So stay tuned for this.
So who is Donna? You're gonna wanna know this.
So she's a naturally an introvert.
(00:44):
So I wanted to ask, is there an unnatural introvert?
Just wanted to know. So you're just a naturally an
introvert. She was once terrified of
people. Like she couldn't even look
someone in the eye or even talk to them at the same time.
So, you know, eye contact, no speaking.
No. So OK, great.
Now you're a public speaker. So now we know what you couldn't
do. She likes to say it was divine
(01:07):
intervention that led her to speak because there was no
earthly reason ever for her to take a stage and put herself in
that kind of an awkward, uncomfortable, terrifying
situation. Like who wants to do that?
Ladies, seriously? But there's some magic on the
other side of this, right? She's dealt with an overcome her
fear, become a seminar leader for one of the top personal
(01:27):
growth and development companiesin the world.
I will tell you that takes something.
I know what she went through. God bless her cuz man, that is
some work all right. She's a trained NLP
practitioner, which is a neuro linguistic programming.
So words are important to some ladies.
The words you use super, super important.
(01:50):
She's a 13 year veteran of Toastmasters.
If you guys don't know what Toastmasters is, you absolutely
need to get into it for, especially for public speaking.
She has been known as the, you know, she has earned the highest
award of a distinguished Toastmasters.
Hats off to you, Donna. Oh, look at you.
She's doing good. Like you didn't see that, but
she did the whole little cutesy thing.
(02:12):
She's an active mentor for the national Speak Your Association,
which we just were talking aboutbefore we jumped onto this
podcast live episode. She's a best selling author of
public speaking for entrepreneurs.
How to show up, speak up and getwhat you want for your business
and your life. Boom.
So she's been doing this for over 30 years.
That's enough accolades. We really know that at this
point. Donna, you're like the bomb
(02:33):
diggity. Welcome.
Thank you. So this terrifying journey of
not being able to look somebody in the eye to now taking and and
being on this journey of public speaking.
Share that with us. I'm curious.
My goodness. Well, it started in my original
career where I was a hairdresser, as you mentioned,
(02:55):
and I had this strong desire to teach and somehow my little
brain did not put teaching and public speaking together in the
same experience because I went to beauty school, not college or
somewhere I might have encountered speaking or the bait
Club or anything like that. And then an opportunity came up
at my salon, which we were a world known salon in the fashion
(03:20):
and beauty field at the time. And we were doing a big hair 2
day hair show. And this opportunity, I'm like,
oh, here's an opportunity to teach.
OK, go be on stage and I'll get to, you know, do a haircut and
demonstrate some of the things I've learned.
It'll be great. And at the time, we were known
around the world like every major fashion magazine famous,
(03:40):
you know, rock stars came in, supermodel came in and, you
know, so very high profile. And then I found myself on stage
with the 2 owners of the salon and very also, you know, high
profile big names in the industry at the time.
And I had asked a few people that I work with, like, what do
I say? The people who did this sort of
(04:00):
thing, what do I say? Like I don't know what to do.
I never did this. Like, oh, you just talk about
what you're doing while you're doing it.
So then my turn comes and I get introduced and I'm just
completely terrified and freakedout.
And I mumble a couple things andthe people in the front row
start calling out. We can't hear, we can't hear.
So the the owner, he's like amazing man, gently takes the
(04:22):
microphone from me, says I'll speak for her.
She has the soft voice. And so he did he like the
haircut, he did the talking. And you know, there's more to
this story, but that's enough for now.
But I was not OK with that because I still had something I
really wanted to give and I and I needed to figure out how to do
it because I wasn't OK that I was so terrified I went mute.
(04:45):
So that was the beginning. Yeah, And I think there's
something in there. It's like when you find yourself
going mute, you do have this internal voice that's screaming,
I have something more to say. And at the same time, you're
terrified to say it. And I think that resonates with
a lot of the audience, a lot of women that listens because I
think we're all in that situation at some point in our
(05:05):
career, in our lives, in our opportunities is that we we get
into this place. It's like I really have
something to say and I'm silent in this.
So you evolved that so you know that you have something to say.
So how did you breakthrough and transition Donna?
This, this sense of now I have. Speaker I am scared to be on
(05:28):
stage. How do you overcome that?
Well, I think training is huge. So where do you go get training?
There are no natural born that you know, like great, like the
great late Dale Carnegie who I, you know, is known for speaking,
he said. Great speakers are not born.
They are most definitely trained, right.
(05:49):
And so something else. I actually left that salon.
I went to another salon situation because they sent
people out to train and I hadn'tdone anything in between though.
So they send me out on the road.Same thing happens again.
They did not invite me to go on the road again after that, but
that's when it went Ding, Ding, Ding, I need to go learn.
So I started with joining Toastmasters.
(06:10):
So that's where you can learn and get the practice and
feedback, honest feedback from the other members.
So that's what I started with. So did you start Toastmasters
before you did some of our leadership?
Way before. Way before.
So you had been like investing in Toastmasters and tell us a
little bit about Toastmasters. I know this is not like a
(06:31):
Toastmaster selling type of a thing, but for those that don't
know what it is, why is it important to kind of get into
the the Toastmasters club from from your perspective?
Yeah, well, the interesting thing about Toastmasters is
actually the name of it is Toastmasters Communication and
Leadership. It's not Toastmasters, public
speaking clubs, but that's what,yeah.
(06:52):
OK, I learned something new. Thanks Tata.
I just got, I just got trained. But that but that the vehicle is
the clubs. So there are clubs that meet
anywhere from like once a week to once a month and they meet
anywhere from one hour to two hours.
And every club is different. And I would say if you check it
out, check out one that you can go to consistently participate
(07:16):
full day and make sure that you are doing the program 'cause
there's actually like a program,there's a method to the madness.
So that is that's huge, right? And just just participate.
So there is so with us and I don't know much because I, I've
heard of it. I've actually spoken at one of
their events, but actually neverparticipated in it.
(07:36):
So that's, that's on me. But there is actually a program
to run through with them. That's good to know because it
always felt like you're just kind of going into the club and
I, I did understand that there was kind of like a format in
which you do, because I know they invite guests, they have
you come listen, you get to kindof hear as others present.
So I was that's definitely an interesting piece to learn.
(07:58):
And all of the clubs, you know, let's say I recommend finding a
few that fit your schedule again, ones you can go to
consistently. And they're like a family.
You know, everyone's a little different.
The culture of everyone is a little different.
Some of them are going to do it.There's like a way to do it
right. Some of them will do it that
way. Others maybe not so much little
loosey goosey. They don't those clubs because
(08:21):
they they are very inconsistent and you may not get what you
want there. OK, so this leads me to this
question because I know when we first met and had our our
initial conversation, I asked about the red stiletto behind
you because your entire website is this red stiletto.
So you are now transforming fromspeaker hair salon and now
you're getting into a red stiletto.
(08:42):
So tell me about how you came upwith this as your business and
brand. I'm super curious.
But I mean, it's probably like in my jeans because I was in the
fashion and beauty business in New York City, right?
So I just always love that That's like in me, right?
I love shoes and I don't there was I don't, there's not a
direct thing. It happened.
You know, I was like, I'm done doing hair.
(09:04):
I can't do the seminar leader training anything because it's
super long days and six days a week.
And I got nothing else. And I knew I already knew I
wanted to help people with theirspeaking because that's what I
had struggled with for so long. And really on the other side,
and I know that, you know, no one's ever died from public
speaking, first of all, and 2nd,that it can be learned, right?
Because clearly I learned it. And I was talking to the coach
(09:27):
friend one day talking about like, oh, what's next?
What are we going to do? And I told him what I just said
about wanting to help mostly women, you know, really starting
with women because I'm a woman and I can relate to that world
of people. And it just came to me red
stiletto get to the point, I'm going to help people with their
public speaking, women with their public speaking.
(09:48):
And I'm going to go to my, you know, I'll go to networking
events and wear my, my red heelsand people will know me.
And like, now I've had it long enough that happened.
Somebody will come over and go, oh, I saw you from behind.
I saw the shoes. I knew that was you.
And I will tell you, well, that works for visibility.
It's not a business plan. It's not stilettos.
As much as I love them, walking around them in 24/7 is not a
(10:09):
business plan. But they are freaking adorable
and amazing, so yes. Yeah.
So that's, that's how it started.
And it wasn't time at that time,but it never left me.
And so several years later when I went, Yep, now is the time to
get out from behind that chair and get out in front of the
people. That was what there was to do.
(10:30):
So you're focusing on women, teaching them to speak.
Why women? Like what have you learned
between maybe the difference between men and women in terms
of speaking? Have are we softer in voice or
are we not owning our voice on stage?
What, what has you kind of led to supporting and really wanting
to work with women on their public speaking?
Well, the sure easy answer is yes, yes and yes.
(10:52):
OK, so women, they get a little squirrely, right?
They get a little squirrely and I think some hide behind being a
mom, even though hello public speaking will advance your
career, but they they feel more uncertain or who knows what
reason they just do. If you just look like here's the
(11:12):
the simple example outside the world of speaking like a like a
job interview a man like like half of those things.
I'm going to apply. Women go, OK, I only have 90%.
I don't think I should right. It's like that.
So. True.
Men are men are much more, for whatever reason, the way they're
brought up, the culture or the type of human they are, I'm not
sure, but they're just much morelikely.
(11:34):
Not like I haven't met nervous men.
I certainly have, but you know that they're much more likely to
just be willing to just jump up and do it, say it, go for it.
And women are not. And yes, they do more softly.
Yes, they are more uncertain. They're unclear about their
message. I've met a lot of women who who
(11:55):
like to me, like them so clear. They have something so powerful
to share, right? And so valuable for the world,
and they don't think it is. Yeah, I hear that a lot too, is
I don't know if I'm ready. I don't know if I have something
to say. Why would somebody want to
listen to me? I hear that a lot from women.
(12:17):
I even met like a three star general, first female feed three
star general in the military. And she's like, yeah, I don't
know if I'd write a book. I'm not sure I really have
something to say. It's just what I did.
It's just what I did. Like we don't own anything.
It's just like there's like thisexpectation.
That's that's just what we do aswomen.
(12:38):
Like, why would I write a book by But I take the stage around
it. Like, yeah, if you guys are
missing, Donna's missing her shaking her head, like, yes.
So share, share some of your thoughts around that.
Which part of that? So just around what has us kind
of not step up into that? What are you like?
(12:58):
And when you're working with women, what is it that you know?
If we're not stepping up into that, if we're not owning our
voice, how do you work with us to own that?
Well, I think what I do is, and I'm sure different people do it
different ways, but what I do first is just have them talk
about what they're passionate about and just have them get
really in touch with it. I think a lot of times what
(13:20):
happens is they get out of touchwith it like they know they are.
And in some cases like, oh, that's just who I am.
No, yeah, yes, it is just who you are.
But no, don't invalidate that because there's no other you
right? It is who you are and they get
in their heads about it is a huge 1 instead of being
connected to their experience and they're hurt about it and
they're feeling about it and what's important to them about
(13:43):
it. They get they're too close to it
sometimes or other times they'rejust too in their heads about it
and not really like connected inside themselves with what's
the meaning of it for them. Do you work with them through
their story, like what they're going to say and how they're
going to present on stage? Like I know that some of your
background deals with like tearing apart stories and
(14:04):
redefining or re crafting your story.
So do you use some of that, I guess technology and such as you
work with women in crafting their story, crafting your
speech? Absolutely.
If I'm working with, even if I'mnot working with entrepreneurs,
stories are so important becausethey bring anything you're
saying to life. Because ultimately we're all
human and we share human experience.
Like the way my version of it isgonna look different than your
(14:26):
version of it, but the human experience of it will be the
same, right? It will be a similar feeling.
And that's what people relate to.
So I always, if I'm working withwomen entrepreneurs, I always
start with we tell their story. And if they're an entrepreneur
who has come from their business, has come from their
experience, then they need to tell that story.
(14:47):
And that's because that's the connection that people have
like, oh, you've been there. OK, yes, I can trust you.
Oh, you were afraid of speaking,and I'm afraid of speaking.
Now you're not. So yes, I can trust you, right.
Kind of like that. And it's like that for
everything. You know, people know you've
been there, they know you can help them.
At you know the very least you get it.
Yeah. And I think that's the the
(15:09):
beautiful thing when you start being a speaker and you're
taking the stage is that relatability and that ability to
connect to that audience. So you really want to develop
that story looking back at your experiences, your skill set.
And so here's a question I do have sometimes, and I've I've
been part of different speaker groups and I feel like some
speakers go back really far intotheir childhood to pull
(15:32):
something forward to something that may be happening in their
workplace. Like I feel like we'd go back a
little too far. Is there is there something
about going too far back into your story, something that may
be a little bit closerly that happened maybe in your teens,
20s earlier? Is, is there kind of like a a
good point, like a good time frame to she's shaking her yet?
(15:54):
Yeah. So what would that look like?
Yeah, I don't dig around in people's past, right.
I don't honestly, like you're saying, to your point, I don't
think people are really that interested or really care unless
it's relevant to what you do now.
OK. So usually I, I don't know if
I've ever really had that to go back very far.
I go back far enough to to show the transition like how they got
(16:17):
from where they were to what they're doing now and why people
should trust them as, you know, somebody that can help them.
Yeah, I think that's what you said, the transition.
What did you go through yourself?
Where were you before? What caused the transition?
What where did you start to shift?
What might have changed that? And then what did you come out
of it afterwards? So we sometimes we call that the
(16:37):
hero's journey. I hear for women it's called the
heroine journey. Like I really do like when we
bring in the female side of thatpart of it.
But I think that's a big piece when you're looking at, you
know, why do I take the stage? OK, then that leads to the
question, why is public speakingone of the most feared things
that we take on? If you're talking about
storytelling and just relating our life, why is speaking such a
(17:00):
why is it the number one fear? I think it still is, arguably,
but I think it still is. And 75% of people do have some
version of that fear and that's equal amongst men and women.
So I have my theories about it. Let's hear.
Can I hear your theories? Are you allowed to share
theories? I made them up, so of course you
can. OK, then I want to hear your
made-up theories about what thisis, so I'm super curious.
(17:23):
And it's also based on observation of myself and
others, right? I don't know if I told you this,
but I'm also trained as an energy healer.
So just to bring a little woo woo in there.
I like it OK. There is an energetic element to
a speaker and and the energy that you need is your own right?
You need to be connected to yourown energy and that's what gives
(17:44):
people power and present. And so there's two main things
that I see and observed and I even in myself that have people
be afraid. One is they're not connected to
themselves and their own energy and their own life force and
their own beingness, if you will, right there.
It's connected and they're up intheir heads about it and they're
not down in their body about it.And the other one is so that
(18:07):
will have people be afraid for sure.
And then the other one is they're not prepared.
They're either not prepared or insufficient, patiently
prepared, and they think they are and they're not.
And you can't get up there and wing it.
Your audience knows, unless you're with your family at
Thanksgiving. Your audience knows and they
feel disrespected, like, oh, shedidn't even bother to prepare.
(18:27):
Like she's just kind of talking,you know, just dream of
consciousness coming out. Like, that's just not
interesting for anyone. You have to prepare.
It has to be organized, it has to be structured, easy to
follow, and you have to be connected in your own self.
And if people don't have either one or both of those, they're
going to be nervous. I can see that, which leads to
(18:47):
the question around that you said, you know, you need to have
a format as a way of communicating, which is clarity.
So why is clarity and really knowing to understand what
you're presenting And I guess you even want like an outcome of
your your conversation. So why is that such a big piece,
that clarity piece? Well, because people are
(19:08):
listening, right? They're watching usually and
listening to you, and they need to be able to follow along.
They don't have your line in front of you, in front of them,
right? They don't have notes.
And you know, even the even the flies, the flies should be
mostly pictures, right? You should never put a sea of
words on your slides. Ever.
(19:29):
Ever. I've seen that.
I have actually been. I told the speaker that one
time. It was literally a whole thing.
It was like a breakdown of theirentire somatical thinking
process. I got so caught up in the tiny
print and everything else, I think I lost 1010 minutes of her
or 5 minutes of her presentation.
I was completely zoned out because I wasn't even aware she
(19:49):
was on the stage. That's right.
And because that's what happens,people are reading the slides
instead of listening to you. In that case, why bother getting
up in front of people? Because just send them your
slides or just send them to yourwebsite.
Don't even bother saying anything.
What makes it interesting is theperson and their view.
They have to say their delivery and their engagement or
(20:10):
engagement. That's a huge one too.
I think things are also transitioning towards less just
talking and more engagement. So talk, talk to me about that
one because I know like we've before in the world of speaking,
when I was growing up, it was all motivational speaking.
So it literally was somebody talking at you.
It was like, you need to do thisand this helps you get up.
(20:31):
Like it was this super. Now you're talking engagement.
So how do you create that engagement?
Yeah, let me, let me just ask you something that way you just
said. Can I ask you?
Yeah. Tell me one, one person that was
the motivational speaker. You saw that you remember what
they said and implemented it andit made a difference.
(20:53):
No, not a single. One nobody, exactly.
I mean, I've seen those people too.
Like it's all great, Jack. Canfield's the Les Brown.
Like I'll throw on names becauseI have seen them like Tony
Robbins. I've seen all these guys do
these great motivational speakers.
I've seen Sharon Stone or what is her name?
Anyways, I've heard of other people that have gone through
(21:15):
and they've said great things. Yay feel good.
Walked away with nothing. Nothing.
It's it's like that rah rah and it's that moment of high, which
is nice for that moment. But you know, really like most
speakers, there are some speakers that have the ego and
upward. It's like, I just want I could
say my thing and have people getit, but I think ultimately now
(21:38):
being around the speaker community and we've actually
talked about this, they mostly want to make a difference.
They have people positively and Rah.
Rah isn't going to do it. Yeah.
Not long term, not beyond that hour.
So how do you engage your audience?
Like what does, what are some tips around engaging your
audience? Because here's what I'll tell
(21:59):
you for those that are listeningon this podcast, what she's
telling you, what she might share with you, not only is
effective as a speaker, but evenin your social media posts and
things like that. If you're doing live videos,
these are some of the things that I, I know that you can,
that can help you too. But so how do you what, how do
you create engagement as a speaker in front of a large
audience? Kind of a thing like what do you
kind of what do you mean by engagement?
(22:20):
I guess like yelling back at you, raising their hands.
Yeah, yeah, like that, so. That just sounds too simple.
It really is. It's like, hello, there's a
person in front of you. You cannot hide behind a screen
and create engagement. Well, actually, that's not true
on social media. We'll come back to the in person
part. OK, Social media, you can do
(22:42):
that, right? You're in the privacy of your
own computer and you can write your stuff.
And engagement there would look like asking questions and
responding, right? And having literally an online
conversation, right? That's what online, that's what
engagement to look like There OKvideos also.
OK. Social media, again, with
questions, you know, reactions, responding back and forth.
(23:05):
So in person, it's the same thing.
You're asking questions, you're getting responses from the
audience. What you do have to be alert to
in person, though, is have some idea, a very good idea of what
kinds of things people might sayand if they say something else,
right? So you got to be a little more
on your toes, you know, think onyour feet when you're speaking
(23:29):
in person. Come down at the audience, but
not not too far because you don't want like, you know, a
whole bunch of people now looking at the back of you,
right? So if you come down, go back,
stay mostly in the front. And here's a big one, eye
contact, eye contact. You can only see, say you have a
big auditorium, a big conferencething, and you can only see, you
(23:50):
know, like the first row, maybe you can't see any because of the
light, but that's a huge and I don't think that's who we're
talking to right here, right? That's a huge thing right there.
That's its own world, right? But you find people that you can
see and if you've got the big thing and all you have are stage
lights, then you try to, you know, know kind of where they
are and you kind of pretend you're looking at them.
But I contacted huge and I'm huge and I'm not talking about
(24:12):
looking at the top of their eyebrows.
You. Actually mean talking like into
their eyeballs. Yeah, yes.
Yeah, I'm not the bridge of their nose, not their hairline,
not something that's not their eyeballs, because people know.
They know not when you're not looking at them.
Then people are not that gum, right?
And here's another thing that about eye contact, and this is
probably the biggest thing of all of it, is that eye contact
(24:35):
creates connection, right? Yes.
With that person. If it's a large group, you're
not going to get to everybody. Just find somebody, talk to them
for three to five seconds, a sentence or two, a thought.
Don't stick with them too long because that would be weird.
Don't make it awkward, OK? Don't make it awkward and
awkward for them or the audience.
Go go to different people and and then they, the person you're
(24:58):
talking to will feel that like talk to that person.
You can't talk to like the wholeas if they're one.
You've got to talk to the one asif they're the whole, right?
Talk to that person and the roomwill feel it because we are all
connected and you have to do anything you can do to create
connection because that's where people get you.
(25:20):
They get what you have to say. They feel like you care about
them, they feel like they matterand they feel importance in what
you're saying. And so that could look like
handouts, worksheets. You can change it up all the
time. That's something a lot of people
say. Change it up every 7 minutes.
Change it up. Engage with people, ask them
(25:41):
questions, have them participate.
So I'm gonna change the conversation a little bit here.
So you have gone from consulting, speaking, you're
running your own business. What's it been like for you?
Like what are some of the challenges you've come up
against as a business owner creating a business around
teaching, speaking? Technology.
(26:07):
Tell me more. I know everything I did before I
got my hands and people's hair and I was a, you know, personal
development trainer. What about the technology in any
of that? Like I could hardly even use my
phone right now. I, you know, I have to learn how
to do the social media and I'm, I'm in the process of putting a
recording a program that I'm going to put in an online
(26:28):
platform, you know, a little on networking.
That's a whole other realm of speaking.
People don't realize it, but it is.
And just, you know, like having to record it.
How do I do the slides and the recording And, you know, like,
do I really need to pay somebodyto do that?
Can I just, you know, just it's like the technology, There's so
much of it. There's yeah.
(26:50):
And there's so much committed all the time.
Like I think every single day there's a new piece of
technology that's created or rethought or reimagined.
And now we have. AI Oh my God, AI right?
Like just shoot me now. I have a love hate relationship
with AI. There's times when I love it and
times I'm like, dear Lord, I don't want to.
I don't want to have anything todo with you right now, so, well,
(27:12):
I know you didn't. Write anything.
I use it more for. Brainstorming.
I would never have AI write something for me.
Yeah, I agree. I think brainstorming is a good
it's a great tool for brainstorming.
It's a great tool for giving youideas and a place to start.
But I don't think it's the thinker of humanity that
everyone's trying to push it towards like this massive main
(27:33):
brain know it all. Like, Nope, let's not play that
game. So technology, anything else
that you would if you could share with women like that?
Some of the other things besidestechnology that kind of felt you
stumped or you wish you had known when you were
transitioning from, you know, employee into this entrepreneur
or business owner phase. Well, how much time do we have?
(27:56):
We've got about 5 minutes left. Well, I.
Think that so marketing actuallywe trained a lot in sales.
So those those sales conversations are a big, I meant
some entrepreneur groups and that's what they challenge for
people. But that's that's not really
been a challenge for me, but that is something people need.
(28:16):
They need it they like it or notthey need it.
Sales training is possible well.Toastmasters, I would think you
learn to sell even in within theleadership and development, you
learn to sell. Enroll the different language
for it. But that is critical.
I think if you're going to become an entrepreneur building
your own business, that is a skill set for sure.
OK, anything else? And that's part of this part of
(28:38):
the. Speaking right, you have to have
the conviction in what you are offering to be able to speak to
it confidently. But marketing, which I actually
think if I had, so this is kind of a two party answer. 1 is if I
had known all the things that I didn't know that I needed to
know ahead of time, I don't knowif I would have still done this.
I probably would have, but I'd rather struggle with all this
(28:58):
than work for somebody else, right?
And so, you know, that's still my stance on all of it.
But I really think that marketing and copywriting and
you know, that aspect of the sales and marketing, I actually
think it's very interesting and but again, very challenging
because I'm not a marketer. It's.
Interesting though, because you do NRA, you are you are trained
(29:20):
in an LNLP. Yeah, which for me.
Going back and learning is a lotof a copywriting is so
copywriting is understanding that neuralistic programming,
what words get us to take an action, what phrasing of words
to take an action. So it's interesting because when
you say that, I think there's, there's still an like a skill
(29:42):
set. You still have it and it's just
looking at it, how it shows up alittle different in terms of how
your marketing and your sales goes, because that is a big
piece of the world of understanding marketing and why
people buy. Yeah, it's it's.
It's actually it's it is sales, but it's also psychology, which
(30:04):
I think is very interesting. And also the copywriting is
words and I love words. So I think that that of like
naturally interested in that, but I haven't really done a
whole lot of the actual trainingof it, like learning it like in
pieces as needed. Yeah.
And I think. That's part of our journey as
(30:24):
an, as a business owner, as a female, you know, somebody
that's owning their business is that it is the journey.
We weren't gifted, like you said, you weren't gifted with
the ability to speak. It can be developed and trained.
Same thing as a business owner, you're being trained and
developed as a business owner. You're going to have, you know,
things that set you back and things that grow forward.
And that's, that's part of your journey.
That actually is what makes you unique and what you present.
(30:47):
You know when you say you know where you're the red still, you
get to the point that is you working with women and having
that conversation. These are all things that you
learn and every client like for me, I know every client that I
bring on, I learn something fromthem as much as they learn
something from me. I feel like it's a mutual, it
becomes like a collaboration experience more so than
(31:07):
anything. Absolutely.
Actually, I've helped people write talks, you know, writing.
I do a done with you for them towrite a signature talk that they
can give to various places of their ideal client.
And that's what the signature talk is.
And I have no idea what some of them do and I have no idea.
I still I'm not really entirely clear and I have no idea what I
(31:31):
never even heard of it before. Like this guy, he this one guy,
he does something called ITAM. I don't even remember what that
stands for. And I know that he helps.
He helps big companies avoid bigtrouble.
When we wrote a whole talk, you know, we wrote a whole talk
about it. It was so interesting.
I learned a lot that I don't remember and I just finished
(31:52):
helping somebody. She's an insurance and we just
wrote a talk together about likeI like, I now need to look at
certain things about my insurance because what I learned
from her, right, just different things.
Like a guy has a drone. Did you know that drone pilots
go through the same, They have to take the same test as an
airline pilot that flies an airplane in the air.
They take the same test. They just don't take the same
flying test. They take the same written test.
(32:14):
Interesting. Did not know that you know.
So all kinds of different thingsI've helped people with and it's
kind of cool 'cause I don't needto know anything about what they
do 'cause they tell me they, I pull it out of them, I make it,
make them. I love it, I love it.
So as you wrap up, 'cause I knowwe are kind of getting to our
time, but we, I love this Donna,you and I could talk forever on
just business talking. Everything else.
I know we've connected over this, but you do have a gift for
(32:36):
our audience. It's top ten, top 10 tips.
So kind of tell me a little bit more about that one for our
audience. Oh, so top 10.
Speaking tips to keep your audience hanging on to every
word you're. Giving this away, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm on the edge of my seat just.
Waiting for you to just so you know, tell me a little bit more
about this now. So that's giving away.
(32:58):
So so there's. You know, there's a lot of
place. You can get tips, you know, like
forget your arms and odds, you know, don't do that.
But I say some things in there and explain why.
So it's like a do's and don'ts or don'ts and do and things that
you don't normally commonly hear.
And so I put all those together just from observing people and
seeing what they feel like. Oh, that didn't work.
(33:19):
You can't say Google it to your audience.
Like that's rude. Oh yeah, very experienced.
Sorry, shocked. Shocked face over here, very
experienced speaker. He's talking.
About something that maybe half the audience might not have
known. And he's like, and if you don't
know what that is, Google it. You know you can't do that.
You can't do that and. If you can, if one.
(33:41):
If you want to like, annoy people, 2.
If you want to alienate people, and three, if you want them all
to get on their phone right thenDang.
So yeah, like. There's there's yes, there's
things you don't commonly hear, OK.
And I love that without that. So ladies that are listening
like I want you to understand that she actually said a lot of
(34:01):
things during did she not? Did she really say that right?
First off, get out of your own head.
And she really said that she's going to tell you to get to the
point with a red stiletto. She might even stick the heel up
you and kick you in the butt a little bit, which I think is
awesome. Sometimes we need to kick in the
pants ladies in the tushy to getus going because and I think the
other thing is when you work with a female speaker like Donna
(34:24):
and you get the opportunity to, her background is really
phenomenal. You'll get to know more about
her and what she's really developed with with her, her
coaching and her speaking because it gives her an unfair
advantage in a lot of ways. And it really gives her a
different perspective. And I think if as you're
developing your speaking skills,there's a lot of a lot of
coaches out there that claim they can teach you how to get on
(34:45):
stage and speak. But I just in my relationship
with who I know Donna is and thetime that I met her, I would say
reach out to her if it's something that interests you on
how to create your signature talk, how to put together even a
presentation to even just strengthen your own ability and
your own confidence in yourself to really design what it is that
your business is like. She can walk you through that
(35:06):
there. Her skill set is freaking
phenomenal. Got met all right, grab the 10
tips learn how to keep you on the gadget their seats, because
this is literally if you're going to grow to six and seven
figures, these are the skill sets you're going to want to
learn learning how to sell learning how to speak learning
how to speak confidently learning your clarity
(35:28):
understanding your story and your messaging.
These are all key elements and women, I, This is why we're
having women here on this, on this podcast is because I want
you to connect with these women,these extraordinary women that
are here to support, help you and evolve you.
Women love to engage. When we're talking about
engagement, we do it 10,000 times better than the men.
(35:48):
And I know it's a slight exaggeration, but I truly
believe it and we're inclusive and I think that's what we
really need. And for those of you that are
considering being on stage, get on stage.
You have a voice. We need to hear it.
So any last words of brilliant wisdom over there, Donna, that
you wanna leave our audience with?
Yes. And it came it's.
(36:09):
Coming right out of what you just said on stage does not mean
in a big auditorium with hundreds of people.
You're a new speaker. Hint.
Nobody's gonna bring you into that.
No background, No, you know, no credibility, no experience, no
nothing. Start with networking groups.
You're gonna on the same level as they in the same room and
(36:30):
you're going to be able to see them eyeball to eyeball.
So networking groups are great and and service clubs like
Kiwanis or Rotary, those are great places to begin and
they're always looking for speakers.
This they are. That is so true.
Well, I thank you so much for your time today for jumping in
on our podcast. Did she really say that?
(36:51):
I love her conversation. Listeners give her a thumbs up,
engage with the show, leave a comment, ask questions.
She will definitely love to to hear from you Connect with her.
All of her information is in ourshow notes, so you definitely
want to connect with her there. And we will definitely see you
all on our next episode. Donna, thank you again for your
time and absolute pleasure. And did she really say that?
(37:13):
Yes, Donna, she did. Donna really said that to you.
Listen in, ladies.
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