October 20, 2025 • 48 mins
Episode Summary
In this eye-opening episode of Did She Really Say That?, Katrina van Oudheusden hosts the dynamic Brenna Rollins-Williams, founder of Legacy Fulfilled and newly published author. Brenna shares her transformative journey from rapid corporate success at Target to entrepreneurship, where she now inspires leaders to build a legacy defined by authenticity and purpose. They discuss the impact of corporate culture, navigating ethical challenges, and redefining leadership beyond conventional norms.
Key Discussion Points
Corporate Success and Its Discontents: Despite achievements and financial recognition, Brenna shares her disillusionment with corporate life and ethical conflicts that led to her departure.
Legacy Fulfilled: Transitioning to entrepreneurship, Brenna's focus is on assisting leaders in crafting lives of significance through Legacy Fulfilled. Highlights include one-on-one coaching, consulting, and public speaking.
Gender and Leadership: Insights into the challenges and opportunities for women navigating high-level corporate roles, and the importance of integrity and authenticity in leadership.
Finding Purpose Beyond Profit: Katrina and Brenna discuss the paradigm shift from traditional profit-driven models to people-centric and legacy-focused business practices.
Brenna's Book: Discussion around Brenna’s chapter in the upcoming anthology "Be The Brand: Your Story, Your Business, Your Way," exploring the personal and professional breakdown that led to breakthrough.
Refusal of an NDA: A bold move to protect her voice and continue advocating for ethical practices and open dialogue regarding corporate culture and mental health.
Legacy Fulfilled’s Mission: Empowering leaders to amplify their impact while being deeply grounded in their personal values and integrity.
Guest Bio
Brin'na Rollins-Williams is a transformative coach, speaker, and founder of Legacy Fulfilled. With over a decade of leadership experience at Target, she leverages her insights and skills to guide high-performing individuals towards meaningful personal and professional legacies. Brenna’s passion for promoting integrity and individuality in business is a testament to her courageous departure from a corporate giant to forge her own path.
Connect with Brenna:
Contact Card: https://dot.cards/legacy_fulfilled
Book: Be The Brand: Your Story, Your Business, Your Way - Volume Two
Contact the Show
Thanks for listening! If you are enjoying our podcast, leave a comment below. We love hearing from our fans and other female entrepreneurs! We are collaborating to make business better for every woman! Feel free to share this podcast on your favorite social platform. And if you are listening on any of the podcast platforms, we would love it if you could post a 5-star review. Please, help us get our message out! Together, we discover how each woman has the power to unlock another woman when we are open about what we are redefining as women in business.
About Your Host: Katrina van Oudheusden
Former Chef at Walt Disney World® Resort, Restaurateur, Speaker, and CEO of Truth Bomb Marketing. Katrina is a sought-after consultant for small business growth among female entrepreneurs.
She created a revolutionary business training method called ‘CreatHER™ Business Rewire’. Weaving together time, money, and business growth by preventing burnout and strengthening female leadership skills.
Alongside the CreatHER™ Planner, women are finally experiencing less stress in all areas of their lives. When the focus begins with HERself, women discover a freedom to dream big, increase revenue, and design a marketing strategy that works for them.
CreatHer Money Revolution: http://creathersummit.com
Blog: https://truthbombmarketing.com/blog
CreatHER Planner: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-planner-2026
CreatHER Reset: http://truthbombmarketing.com/reset
CreatHER Business Rewire: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-business-rewire/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Well, welcome to this episode ofDid She Really Say That?
The conversation I'm having withwomen in business around how
they're redesigning business, how they're living their lives
out loud, and how they're challenging the status quos that
we believe should be the norm but really aren't.
It's time for a different conversation.
And that's why you're here with us today because this
(00:23):
conversation with Rihanna is going to be like holy bleep.
And we do cuss. So there might be some words
dropped in here. There might be some foul
language. And you know what, ladies,
welcome to our world. All right, so I am super excited
to have Brianna with us. She is the founder of Legacy
Fulfilled and a newly published author.
(00:43):
This is coming soon, by the way.So you're going to get like
first dibs. Oh my God, look at there it is
first dibs for this. One of the cool things you have
to know about Brenna is that Brenna is a young lady.
And what I mean by this is that by the time she was 28, she was
one of Target's youngest. And I do say Target.
So that is a national company here in the United States.
(01:05):
She was the senior direct district director.
She managed thousands ladies of team members and over 5500 and
$80 million in operations mic drop, right?
So, and in that time, she had a lot of rapid growth, a lot of
promotion, 6 figure bonuses, everything we want and dream
(01:26):
that we should have at that corporate level.
And yet, if you talk to Brenna, she'll tell you that totally
sucked. She felt empty, disconnected
from her authentic self. And she was being asked, oh this
gives me chills just thinking about it 'cause we had this
conversation to cover up something unethical.
She walked away from her corporate success to build
(01:50):
something of significance. Today, through her legacy
fulfilled, she helps high performing women leaders
transform from success into significance.
How many ladies here are resonating with us already,
right? By building your authentic self,
a purpose driven business, right?
This is what we all want. This is why we shift from
(02:11):
corporate into this business world is that we feel called to
do something different, refilled, called to change the
norm. And honestly, Brenna is going to
bring this to you, OK? She is not author.
She's got a beautiful chapter called the beautiful Breakdown,
Rebuilding legacy from the inside out.
You guys have heard this theme throughout most of these podcast
(02:33):
episodes for season 3. It's the inside work.
This book launches at the time of this error into this podcast,
it is launched. I promise you that you're going
to want to get your hands on it.It is be the brand, your story,
your business, your way. Volume 2 is she is it got the
chapter in that that's going to blow your mind and you
(02:53):
absolutely need to read it. This is a powerhouse young lady
and I say that because she is really if I could look back 15
years ago and I said I want to be like Brenna.
I want to I want to have that type of courage and I love
seeing this in our as women thatare coming up and saying, you
(03:13):
know what, let's lead for impact.
So you know what, it is an absolute pleasure to have you
here. Thank you.
Thank you. Oh my gosh, I'm blushing.
I have goosebumps and I think I'm starting to sweat.
That was really sweet and it's never fun to hear yourself spit
back at you, but that was reallyfun to listen to.
(03:35):
Thank you for that and thanks for me.
Absolutely. So when we first did our meet
and greet and when I met you, I was like, holy crap, Brenna's
story is 1 to tell, right? So let's kind of dive into this,
right? Because it's important.
So we're going to go dive back alittle bit in your past.
So you started working at Target.
(03:57):
So talk to us about just kind ofa little bit into that phase.
We're not going to spend a lot of time on there, but I want to
just kind of give like that sense from your perspective.
What was that like? So I am originally born and
raised in Indiana. I'm a Midwest homegrown girl,
thought I would always live in the Midwest.
(04:17):
And like most people, I went to college thinking I would do one
thing and I needed an internshipfor credits to graduate.
And so lo and behold, the bullseye stepped in and I fell
in love with the chaos. Original goal dental hygienist.
I did this internship and I what's funny is I studied
(04:39):
organizational leadership and supervision, which is front door
to back door business with a focus on people development, IE
target in real life. And I decided to start my career
with them. So immediately upon graduation
and 2014 from Purdue University,I started my career and within
(05:00):
three years promoted 3 more times and then in 2019 got
relocated through the company from Indiana out to California,
which is where we live now and the best territory I could have
ever been placed in. And yeah, I stepped into my
dream role as a district senior director four years into my
career and held that role for the next 5 1/2, bringing me to
(05:25):
11 years with the company. What was it like as a female in
that role 'cause I, I tend to wonder, do you get pushed back
by being a female in that type of role?
Yet you're shaking your head. For those of you guys are not
watching the video, she's absolutely shaking her head.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthat.
You betcha, baby. And I had a very unique
(05:46):
trajectory throughout my career.Yes, it moved rapidly quickly.
And with that, I also didn't have necessarily a goal line of
where I wanted to be position, position wise, other than by the
time I retired with the company,which again, big goals, big
(06:07):
dreams I. Was way out there.
Yes, I wanted to be a district senior director, which at the
time my intern up to that was like 4 levels above me.
I'm like this is going to be, I'll be there by the time I
retire. But my path was a assistant
manager was my first salaried position.
Then I stepped into a property management business partner role
(06:30):
and I ran all things property management related across 18
stores in Central IN. And when you you know what that
side of the business is, it's the air conditioning works, the
lights work, the the bathrooms have soap and every building has
a technician, a specialist on site 40 hours a week.
(06:52):
They are the guru and the specialist, most of who are
close to retiring. And my intro would be like, hi,
I'm Brenna, followed by, oh, honey, I have T-shirts older
than you. How are you?
And I'm like, this is going to be so fun.
You just don't know it yet. And that was really in that
(07:13):
position for about 18 months wasa really big humbling eye opener
of just how much I did not fit in to what the norm was
expected. I was the only female in the
room often and I was least tenured, especially for my
direct reports in that role. And I have a lot of energy and a
(07:36):
lot of people in the properties world don't.
And they love what they do and they're good at what they do
because they don't have to interface with the guests a lot
or the team necessarily. And so that was really my first
exposure to that. And then as a from there, I
became a store director. I ran a $50 million building,
and I was the youngest store director on the team.
(07:59):
There was a lot of people who didn't agree that I should have
had the position. There were people that voiced,
oh, yeah, like, she's been here for three years and she's doing
this. It took me 10 to get here.
So there was a lot of that goingon and really I just, I took it
in stride and I see people for people and it's OK if you don't
agree. I'm also going to deliver.
(08:20):
So like you can't fight with that.
And like I'm going to amplify you in the process.
You just don't know it yet. Coming as a senior director and
moving, relocating out to California.
I was one of two females on the team initially out of seven in
our regional territory. But there is only like 3030
(08:42):
something of us in the company. And as you look up even less
females and then you look at theboard and there's like 3, and
then obviously our CEO is a maleannounced retirement this year
or transitioning positions this year, Brian Cornell.
But there really wasn't a lot offemale leaders ahead of me to
(09:04):
also see where I could fit in. So I like to take the approach
from saying yes to property management.
Even if I'm the only one I'm going to do it and figure it
out. Yeah, and, and I love how you
say it because I think, you know, we are still in a time
period where women are stepping into first time roles still.
Like it seems absurd that that'sstill happening, but it is
(09:26):
still. And I look back, it's like it's
only been 50 years. For those of you who've been
listening in 50 years ago, womencould open their first check
insurance account without their husband's signature. 50 years
ago, we started getting into corporate level jobs, doctors,
you know, higher end positions, research, you name it, CEO,
those like this isn't been like generations that we've been
(09:48):
doing this. This is literally less than a
generation that we as women havebeen getting into these roles.
So Brenna, I love that kind of that journey and and I can only
imagine the impact that you probably don't know you left
behind, the ripple effect that you created because in your
leadership, you given permissionfor women to reach and aspire
(10:12):
for that. So in from a heartfelt
standpoint, I want to just recognize you for the bravery,
the courage to transition into roles of unknowingness to be the
one that kind of got the brute force of the, you know, how dare
you, you don't fit in kind of a thing to really redesign the
inside of these companies. So thank you for for going
(10:36):
through that because it does take a strength of character to
to be that woman that says gonnado it anyways.
And I'm still gonna love on every single one of you like
Tada. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
So there was an incident that happened.
We're not diving deep into this one, but there was a moment,
which is what for me when we talked about it, I was like,
(10:56):
damn, I really wish I'd had a conversation with you back when
I was going through something ofa similar effect.
So let's talk just briefly aboutthat before we dive into kind of
what you're you're doing now andthe shift around that
conversation cuz it leads into. Yes, yes it does.
So as I mentioned, there weren'tvery many female leaders above
(11:18):
the positions that I, I found myself in.
And so majority of my career I did work for males and I've had
incredible like the Unicorn typebosses that you're lucky to
interface with. And my, the day finally came
where I, I worked for a female and I was stoked.
You guys like listening to a tenured female in the company,
(11:42):
meaning she has experience, she's got the reputation behind
her, She's a mom of two, She's relocating across the country
for her position. I was like, Oh my gosh, let's
like long overdue. And I can finally see like a
representation of myself. Even though we don't have kids,
(12:03):
I can see someone in that role that's doing it.
Yeah, it was really cool for me.And being at least tenured in my
role at the time, I was kind of the person to on board, if you
will, the new boss. And so be the sounding board, be
the one that gives the hard feedback, be the pulse of the
team when things aren't landing,like throw her a bone and help
(12:25):
her get acclimated. And in my, in the book that just
came out, you'll realize the chameleon side of me stepped
right into this and no problem, I got it and it was really great
until it wasn't. And I say that because as a
professional, a young professional, a female
professional, I pride myself in the relationships that I build.
(12:49):
There is integrity behind it. There is transparency with them,
there is support through them. And so I, I was very real with
that acclimating process and we became a really good team, team
professionally, but we also became very close personally
(13:10):
because she got to know who I am, where I'm from, things about
my family, things that I'm struggling with, my wishes and
desires outside of what I want to do for my profession.
And what I didn't recognize was I was also feeding a lot of ammo
that would come back later and be used almost like to her
(13:32):
benefit right against me, which is not great, but I learned
through that. And all of this, it comes down
to the point that we had gotten so close that after 10 years of
my now husband and I finally getting engaged, yes, we dated
10 years, seven of which were long distance and then he
finally proposed after 10 years.I obviously was very excited and
(13:56):
she had gifted me her wedding earrings as a something borrowed
as a very sweet gesture. I mean, I bawled.
It was like super kind, totally did not need to do that.
But I say that for reference of you don't just do that kind of
thing with anybody. You know, there's like got to be
some sort of of relationship there.
(14:16):
So that was in 2022, and by 2023it took a turn and I no longer
was the sounding board. I rather became the punching bag
and I rather became the safety net of coverage because my job
(14:37):
is to also make my boss's life easier.
You deliver on results, so you do your job and it makes their
life easier. I give the feedback that isn't
landing so that it's heard in a way that lands all those kind of
things. And after getting to know so
much about me as a a person and utilizing that against me almost
(14:57):
is that I was being asked to cover up certain things that she
knew wasn't right. I was being asked to, you know,
tell your team that you I have afamily emergency.
I need you to Take Me Home today.
We're going to cancel visits. Just tell them I have a family
emergency. First of all, my response is OK,
boss, Are you sure? Yes, and then I do that because
(15:20):
I that's just what I do. And then I go home and I don't
sleep for two weeks because I'm like, this is not good.
There's something this is, I know this is wrong.
And in that I chose to stay quiet and to play my role
because this also was my career for 11 years.
This is all I've I've achieved. This is why I live the way we
(15:43):
live. This is me and my identity and
that values cross of being askedto do something I know is not
good and it's like adding a layer in a layer in a layer in a
layer. But I still I could see through
this isn't right. This isn't doesn't feel good.
(16:03):
I don't know what to do. If I talk about it, I'm going to
get fired all these things. So I sat with it and I fought it
for about 18 months. And then that was severe burnout
and anxiety everyday. Anxiety that I, I mean, I
thrived in because it was chaotic in retail, but it was
uncontrollable and it became panic attacks.
(16:25):
It became medication. It became routine therapy every
week. It became sleepless nights and
night terrors. Waking up in a pool of sweat
thinking I peed myself like, no,that was stress.
Eating away at who I am, what I stand for, what I know is right
and wrong, and being silent for way too long so.
(16:47):
And I, and I'm going to stop youright here because I have a feel
a lot of them are like, holy crap, I hear this and I'm I now
I'm self reflecting, right? Like I absolutely can hear from
our women right now. They're sitting here going, Oh,
I'm in that space. Oh, is this what it feels like?
Wait, what's going to happen next?
(17:08):
Now that we kind of pause it to keep you on the edge of your
seat, ladies, like I did this onpurpose, but and I want you to
kind of really see for yourself.There is a point as women and as
a human being in general, where you feel that your values are
compromised. There is a a sense of integrity,
right? It's not necessary morality,
it's integrity. It is the integrity of who you
(17:30):
are. What is that?
Is that about treating people well, right, being good to
people like as a whole? And so when there's something
off, you do feel it. And with Brenda, I mean, you're
talking, it's like an emotional,mental everything.
And it wasn't yours to carry like you stressed over something
that really wasn't yours to carry.
(17:51):
Yeah, and I, I can even tell youduring meetings that did happen
a lot of times, ladies, they gotcancelled or rescheduled and
then they never appeared on the calendar again.
I had even voiced like, I'm uncomfortable.
I don't feel psychologically safe right now.
I'm not OK with this. You know, I, I know I agreed to
(18:12):
this and it's been sitting on mefor months.
I should have brought it up. I don't feel OK.
And it was brought up multiple times in multiple avenues, and
what hurt was like nothing happened.
Nothing. Nothing happened and I'm like,
OK, so clearly I'm just like dramatic as everyone is first to
(18:34):
assume and I'm just losing my mind.
I'm going crazy. I'm not happy in life.
It must be a me problem. Then I go to the.
Wait a minute, it must be a you problem.
I love how we shift responsibility from where it's
at on to other people as a way to displace our sense of hey,
we're part of this, we're part of the problem.
(18:55):
So yes, continue. So I, I, it got so bad that I
was like, I, something's wrong, something's wrong in me and I
don't know what it is. I'm like doing all the stuff
that I'm supposed to be doing. I work out, I drink water, I
eat, not normally, I just eat onthe fly 'cause I work all the
time. I know my pitfalls, I know the
(19:18):
excuses I make for myself, but this is different.
So I met with my doctor and we started conversations and
immediately he is like, I would like to refer you to a
therapist. I would like you to get set up
with a psychiatrist. And of course, I am like, yeah,
OK, like, whatever. I just know I don't feel good.
I can't sleep. I can't look at myself in the
(19:40):
mirror. I am mad.
And I am really young and I'm survive, like doing all these
great things at work. Why does it?
Why do I feel empty? It's hollow.
What the hell is happening? And sure enough, first
conversation with the psychiatrist and the therapist
was like, you are not in alignment with who you are with
(20:03):
within your own integrity and with values that are important
to you. And that, that was a humbling
experience, but the most reassuring comfort I think I've
ever felt because I had made-up in my mind.
(20:23):
Everyone, there's more of me in this company.
There are more of me in this position across the company.
They must all just deal with it and I'm just don't know how to
deal with it yet. That's not it.
OK, I'm gonna stop you again because I can hear everybody
going holy crap. Wait, I, I did because you're,
you're amplifying, I think what a lot of women throughout these
(20:48):
corporate places that went aheadof you have experienced.
And I love this conversation because I feel like you're,
you're voicing the upset that wedidn't even know we were
experiencing or had the opportunity to really look at.
So really grateful, seriously grateful for this, that this
episode, because this is you have literally said some things,
(21:08):
ladies, I know she said you're thinking, did she really say
that? Did she really say that?
Holy crap, I've had that experience.
Like, I know that's what's goingon out there.
Yeah. And I, and I can say to you in
my chapter that it just came outor was published, I mentioned my
family dynamic and the chapter specifically is heavily weighted
(21:29):
on the relationship with my stepfather and his legacy and
how that comes about and why that matters.
But I mentioned this because my dad, my biological dad, is also
my best friend. He's also my role model and he
is a high level executive, always has been, carries a lot
of heavy responsibility, obviously is a male.
(21:50):
And he has always encouraged me to go do and be whoever I want
to be and do it in a way that isrespectful and that you treat
the CEO the same that you would the janitor.
They're human on the other side,regardless of the title they
carry. And Amen, that is like lights
(22:12):
on. Yes, that is when I know I'm
being me. And when it was shrinking or
going against what I felt like Ihad to do, that's where it
started to spiral and it wasn't me that was a problem.
And I know that now it is. It's doing something about it.
(22:33):
And I think what you said just now you, I don't even sure you
caught it, but you said you feltyourself shrinking.
And I think when you have a value base that is to treat a
human being as a human being, nomatter background, race, creed,
position, whatever, and then youget the sense that you cannot do
that and you start to shrink that with ladies, if you're
(22:53):
feeling that in any way, I, I mean, definitely go talk to a
therapist. Go continue, you know, self
discovery. Go, go do some work.
Because there's something there that unlocks a value in you that
when you stand in this value like Brenda has and she's about
to shift into, this transforms everything because it gives you
(23:14):
back the sense of who you are and your purpose again.
So there was a shift. So there was a moment when you
were told to go SHHHHH, yeah, quietly disappear and go into
the night and do your thing. And that's not what happened.
No it is not and I will lead this with I support a severance
(23:40):
package option when it's needed based off your situation.
I recognize I am in a very unique situation, which is why I
was able to make the decision that I'm about to share because
it's also not normal and I realize that.
Wait a minute. I'm going to clarify that this
(24:01):
might seem not normal now and this might be more of a reality
in our future because there's something beautiful in this
process, in this conversation that you're going to share with
us because this is what this is,OK?
Like I want to give permission that this is OK to do because I
think that's the beauty of what you're about to share next.
(24:24):
Yes, thank you for clarifying that.
And so here is basically what happened.
I was in that burnout phase for as long as I physically could
take it. For me, it was about 18 months
and then I finally said that's it.
And I called our HR director, the integrity team.
(24:46):
I submitted all of the feedback that I had collected.
Ladies, keep the receipts. I know it's like a trending joke
and all the stuff that like for real, keep the receipts because
you never know when you might need them.
I had everything from screenshots, photos, text
messages, ignored messages, emails, calendar cancellations.
(25:06):
I had everything submitted up what was happening because the
treatment of me also shifted during this 18 month time frame
obviously. And I'm like this is this is not
good. I am delivering on all fronts.
I'm not a problem performer. My team is cranking out
operations and I am pumping talent.
I know I'm not the problem on delivering and after, after I
(25:29):
opened up that can of worms upward, I got a call the next
day from our HR manager and she's like, you know, at this
level, this is kind of how we proceed and this is what the
options look like. And then there's an offer of
severance. And we want you to be, you want
this to be mutual. We want this to be quick both
for you and for the business. Again, I totally understand the
(25:52):
reason we have a job is to produce and drive sales.
Otherwise it wouldn't exist. However, I refuse to take a
penny because it also comes withan NDA and I know at my level,
the NDA also protects the integrity of the company and
things that you or have exposureto and that's not what it's
(26:14):
about. It also would have limited my
experience in my career of 11 years with this company that I
have achieved. Absolutely not.
I am unable, incapable of talking about mental,
psychological, physical impacts of my time and my tenure.
(26:39):
I'm not here to talk about the calls that come out on New York
with stock numbers and all of that.
That's business. Personal is that I didn't sleep
for days. Personal is that I have been in
therapy weekly for a year and a half talking about a job that
(27:01):
impacted me and my identity as ahuman being and that no one will
ever pay me enough to be quiet about.
So I no, no, thank you. And I left March 29th of 2024.
(27:22):
I decided to step down for my position.
I sent a message to all my mentors and my team and I said,
you know, I appreciate all the work we've done and I hope to
stay in touch. I'm staying in Folsom.
My number stays the same. And I left and I left because I
had been cornered into this is the only way out.
(27:44):
Is this this severance and NDA? And I said what I did at the
beginning about I understand howfortunate I am to be able to
have made that decision. The reason that I could is
because I've also worked since Iwas 14.
Every dollar my husband and I have, we have earned saved.
We're insane savers. But I also knew financially we
(28:08):
are OK. We looked at every single thing
that was included from benefits coverage, medical coverage,
options for retirement, stock funds, executive deferral
programs, everything. What is what am I choosing to
walk away from and what do we have as a safety net that I
(28:29):
don't have to rely on surviving by taking the severance.
And I recognize that not everyone is set up in that
financial situation, which is why I say for those that have
accepted that offer, you're not wrong if that was the best
decision for you at that time. You're not wrong for signing the
(28:50):
NDA because it is required in order to accept the severance.
However, no, that I did not in that I now have the ability to
not only be an advocate and a voice for myself, but an
advocate and a voice for you because the experience of what
you went through and what you internally dealt with in your
(29:14):
own identity, rocks and ships and everything else.
There are threads of similarity across anyone that has been in
that situation and I chose to decline it so that I could save
my voice and save the integrity with it.
And I think that's something that I, I honestly admire and
(29:34):
love about you because there is the sense of shame and blame for
a lot of things that happen at the level of corporate.
It's just it's been embedded in the fabric of what it's done
right. And I, and it's not to say it's
right or wrong. There is multiple ways in which
business is run and there is thesense of things are changing.
(29:57):
And what I love with what you'reyou're sharing is that in this
entire episode, not once did I feel like you were going after
anyone. Not once did I feel like there
was an upset with your journey, your experience.
What was the upset was as human beings, will we create
businesses? We have to create a safe space
(30:19):
for all of us as human beings tointeract with each other in a
way that if at any time our values feel like they're been
challenged, we have the opportunity to go and voice that
in a space that invites collaboration, invites those
conversations so that each humanbeing deals with something in
their life at any level. Like, I don't know what was
(30:40):
going on in your life, her life,company life, everything else.
Like there could have been a multitude of things, right?
So to sit here and point fingersand say, Oh my gosh, you were so
right in doing that. That's not the conversation
we're having. The conversation we're having is
that it's OK to shift our conversations and still mutually
be grateful for the experiences.Brenna has said to you this
(31:03):
crafted like her experiences, the level of experience that she
got, the growth that she got, the personal one-on-one training
that she got over her career hasgifted her the ability to come
forward now and say, yeah, this is my voice, this is who I am,
this is what I'm going to help. But it's the skill sets she
picked up. It wasn't the business, it was
the skill sets. It was the people she's in when
(31:26):
you're talking. How many people did you have on
teams? Thousands of people on your
teams. About 3200 in PQ 4, and that's
across 10 Target stores in two states.
Do you realize how many people have impacted you and you've
impacted them? It brings me to tears of the
impact that they've made on me. Yeah, like the.
Person. Every single one of you touched
(31:48):
your life, gave you something tolearn, gave you something to
challenge you, gave you some newperspective.
And I think that's the beauty ofwhat you're bringing forth is
like every person hadn't had something to contribute, good,
bad, you know, indifferent. Whatever it is that many people
to be around will shift perspectives for you like that.
(32:11):
It's not. It's not a just me mentality
when you're playing at that level and you're responsible for
a community of human beings to perform and find talent and to
nurture and grow, that you yourself have no choice but to
grow. Correct.
Correct. It's incredible.
Yeah. And that's the, that's what I
(32:32):
hear when I talk with you is that there's just there's a
level of growth because of who you've connected with, the
people that you've connected with.
So that ladies, if you're listening, this is the
conversation that I hope you areable to have, even the gentleman
that I know that are here listening also, it's OK to have
(32:52):
a voice. It's OK to say no, to protect
your voice. Not everything needs to be
silenced. And I think that's the
conversation that really shows up for me in here, Brenna, is
that it's not always OK to be silenced.
There are other avenues in whichwe could pursue.
And I think you opened the door that said, could there have been
(33:13):
another way? And that's the possibility I
think you presented and everything we shared on this
episode is there's a possibilityof another way.
And as at a corporate level, as an entrepreneur that's building
businesses, I want to gift you what Brenna just said because
that I want you to take into your business as you grow, that
(33:37):
I want you to take in as part ofyour personal development.
Conflict isn't to be ignored. Conflict is an opportunity to
learn. Yes.
Yes. Especially as a leader of a team
of one if as an entrepreneur or a team of many.
If you are an entrepreneur and have multiple contractors and
(34:01):
support people in your roles or you're actually in a role at
corporate leading large teams. No matter what you are.
Dinner table conversation for someone else every single day.
How you make them feel is what dictates how that conversation
(34:22):
goes. And as a leader, I in my role at
Target, that is something I thought about all the time.
Anything that I'm doing, am I OKwith who I am at night if it
shows up on the headlines of thenews or the front page of the
paper? If not, probably shouldn't be
doing it. Next is for my team.
(34:44):
Even when they we disagree, evenwhen they challenge back, which
I encourage a lot, by the way, that's good.
That's gross. Because I'm also getting to know
what matters to them and why andmaking them feel heard and being
able to go home and have the dinner table conversation that
(35:05):
you're not going to believe this.
We got into this huge discussiontoday.
But you know what? I felt heard like we don't have
a resolution yet. Or she she said, yes, how cool
that dinner table conversation about how I had made my team
feel that means I'm doing my jobas a leader, not, you know, I
tried to bring this up, I got shut down or unavailable again
(35:28):
or just got told how bad I am. I'll just stick to doing what
I'm doing. That's not it.
That's not, that's not amplifying leaders.
So. Yeah, so one of the things
that's interesting, and I'll share this as part of my
background because I feel like this is what sets us a part as
female leaders also is that ability to listen and connect.
So when I was in corporate space, so I for those that know,
(35:50):
I worked at Walt Disney World for 13 years as a chef.
Like that was my my big thing. And at the end of my career.
So I actually went from full time to part time to no time
with Disney. I actually transitioned to my
way out, right? One of the things I recognized
early on, especially as a leaderin somebody in management, is
that as you're working with yourteam, they want to be heard.
(36:10):
There is going to be a moment asyou're sitting there, and I
always call it the kitchen. All of a sudden the kitchen got
quiet, right? There was an angst, there was an
upset. There was a dispute between
somebody. There's something that would
happen, right? And you're thinking of like,
yeah, that's that's true, right?There's always a moment where
there's a calm and then there's,like, chaos.
(36:31):
And so one of the things that kind of came up for me was I
called it the back dock party. All right, So in the kitchen, if
you guys ever worked in a restaurant and even at Target,
there's a back dock. It's where all the freight
trucks come in to drop produce and everything you need, right?
Yeah. It's it's a disaster.
Usually back there, you're sitting next to a dumpster.
There's crates everywhere. It's not the prettiest
(36:51):
environment, but we do keep it clean, OK, because that's a
standard. You're buildings, you know, you
know that you got to keep that error clean.
So I would do a back dock party.I'm like, so I'd feel the unrest
and I would say you're still on the clock.
We're going to take 30 minutes. I'm going to continue to pay
you. We're going to go on the back
dock. I'm going to feed you ice cream
and we're going to sit here and figure out what the flock is
(37:11):
going on, right? Yes.
Right. So I said, OK, I'm taking my
name tag off like I'm still on the clock.
But the sense of taking the nametag off, right, I'm not in a
position of authority. I am now sitting here with you
wanting to know what is going onin this kitchen because that is
the only way. And so it would be a time I was
like, if you need to smoke, smoke.
If you want to have an ice cream, have an ice cream.
(37:31):
Like whatever feels good for you, for, you know, the cuss
like I have, There's nothing that's going to get written up,
right. Yeah, Yep.
But that sense of they get to come together and have what
would be a pretty much a bitch session, right?
Yeah. Cleared so much space, cleared
so much space to be able to havethem be able to be heard, have
(37:56):
the opportunity to have somebodylisten to them.
And I could say, you know what, I could resolve this.
This is what I know. Like I can't tell them
everything that's maybe going on, but I can say that might not
be possible. But I'll continue to look into
it and get back to you on that, right?
And then honoring my word to getback to him on that.
What can we change, right? So it's not just listening, but
it's also honoring your word andsaying this.
(38:18):
I'm going to follow up with you on what that is.
So I think when you talk about, you know, what are you creating
in your in your workplace? That's the integrity, right?
Like those are the moments I maynot agree with my boss.
He would he'd always say that stupid.
That's not, you know, why do youdo that?
And I was like, because it's me and it's the one way I resolve
crisis in the kitchen. Otherwise it's just going to
(38:38):
Stew, brew, and boil over. Yep, yes.
And it's not a safe place anymore, and nobody wants to
work in an environment where they don't feel safe.
Exactly. And that's so.
The back dock party is so funny.When I was a store director, we
did the same thing and it was inthe freezer because everybody
just needs to cool off. So we all just go stand in the
(39:00):
big walk in freezer together. As a district senior director,
it was a 2 minute rule and I washands off, gloves off.
Like tell me what you're thinking.
I'm going to start the clock. You got 2 minutes go.
And I would just let it happen. And then I'm like time and
everybody took a deep breath andthen we could move on.
(39:21):
Then as a multi unit leader, I could call them one-on-one or go
to their building and say, let'sgo take a walk and we walk
outside of the building in circles and we get to the bottom
of the problem. But had I not opened up two
minutes to let the floodgates out, I would have totally missed
(39:43):
so many incredible moments of development and support for my
team. So that is a great way to
continue to be a human leader that builds a team that people
want to be a part of, and that is what I do.
So let's dive into what it is you do now.
So transition. So we're talking this a little
over a year. You've moved out of this space,
(40:05):
you're now building the legacy fulfilled.
What is that? What are you being called to?
What are you being called to? And who do you want to be
working with? Oh, this is so exciting.
So I am about a year and a half in business under legacy
fulfilled as a solopreneur and Ihave a mighty team of three that
helped me make wonders out of the work that I build.
(40:28):
And here's what we got going on.So three kind of avenues of
working together of current day.First off is working one-on-one
with me as your leadership coach.
Some call it a career coach, some of them call it a
leadership coach. I like a legacy building coach
that's more one-on-one focused on the inner work personally and
(40:52):
the ripple effect through your leadership in life.
That's in your corporate role that can be as an entrepreneur,
that can be as a stay at home mom.
You are a leader to your family.Anybody that looks, listens,
watches, that is influence. That is a leadership role.
(41:12):
And whether or not it's in your title, it's the responsibility
of being a leader. That's the we do one-on-one.
It's super fun. My client roster is just, I get
fueled just as much as they get fueled.
And it is about you as the client.
I give you all the skills and tactics.
(41:33):
If it is very work, focus driven.
I had a client this week. We built out a huge talent
succession strategy plan for herto implement and to use.
So you kind of get both lanes ofwhat that looks like.
Then I've got the consultant side.
So this is more for teams of people through corporations and
(41:56):
or through teams that bring me in and they want to do a total
team training. So my specialty is building
magnetic teams that people want to stay on.
Obviously, that includes generational differences, how to
have hard conversations, how to engage and minimize retention of
(42:18):
your team that actually is controllable.
Leadership is a learnable skill.You're just not taught that in
the training that you're given at the company.
You're taught how to execute anddeliver, which I also respect,
but you got to know how to lead and retain your people.
So that is my consulting lane. And I build those out with the
companies around what they really are focused on giving
(42:39):
back to their people. And I do that in a way that I
know is also going to resonate and develop their people. 3rd
lane is through awareness. So I am a professional speaker.
I have 4 speaking engagements over the next 30 days.
So if you're in San Francisco, Orange County, Folsom or Las
(43:02):
Vegas, I will be in your area over the next month speaking.
I will be giving out copies of the book and be able to share
kind of like that side as a support tool because there are
me alongside 5 other female entrepreneur authors who share
why they started their business.The whole point of this
(43:23):
publishing is the founder story behind the business that fuels
it. That is not something to talk
about when I'm leading a training.
That's not something to talk about as a speaker.
I am there for you to provide value.
So if you want to know the whys and legacies and why they're so
important, that's what this is for.
(43:43):
And hopefully to also inspire you and allow a mirror for you
to see yourself. But outside of the speaking
engagements and doing some stuffwith the book tour and things
like that, I have my own podcast.
I am a guest obviously on podcast.
I'm very active on socials and on LinkedIn and just growing a
community of leaders who want tostand tall in their values.
(44:08):
That is not me pushing my valueson you.
That is you identifying what they they look like and mean to
you and how you live fully in them every day so that in turn
you build a legacy as a leader that you can look back on one
day and be proud of. I hope you all just follow her
like right now because Brenna has brought this conversation in
(44:32):
full circle and starting off with, you know, you can tell
she's got the energy. I can see why you rose through
ranks fairly quickly because there is that sense of growth
and personal awareness. And while, while an upset
happened, I think that made you a stronger voice in what you're
doing. And like I say with anybody
(44:54):
that's come from that corporate background, there's a skill set
you learn that can be brought in.
Like I always tell people, I said I came from Disney and
trust me, there's a lot of skillsets and a lot of things that
Disney has done well in customerservice relationships that I
bring in to businesses. Because once you learn that
culture and you were in it for 11 years, I was in mine for 13
years, you, you don't unlearn that.
(45:15):
Like you just kind of evolve it into the next piece.
You take the best of and you bring it forward.
So I would, I could say that like working with you would be
an absolute treat and you are absolutely focused on the
people. And I think when we get back to
not the dollar bills and the dollar that runs the company,
(45:36):
but the people that make the impact from the from the bottom
up, that is where we start to shift and change what leadership
is. And we get back to the
fundamentals of, of making a difference in this world, not
just building for a dollar, but building for humanity.
Yes, that is what it's all about.
Because at the end of the day, Iam a human just like everybody
(45:58):
on my team, whether it is in a corporate role or it is as a
client, as an entrepreneur through my business.
It's about the impact, the influence and the legacy that is
being left and made in the livesof other people.
That is what leadership is about.
So I, I love this conversation and I love the work that you are
(46:19):
doing. I have listened to a lot of
episodes and yes, she did reallysay that.
So thank you for listening to this episode and connect with
me. I like I said, I'm very active
on socials. I can provide my links and bio
and all the stuff for the show notes.
All of that will be in the show notes, so that's all taken care
of. So wherever you're listening to
(46:40):
this podcast, then the show notes are every way you can
possibly connect with Brenna andjust follow her, fall in love
with her and if her style resonates, work with her.
Yes, that that is where this is the episode.
These are the the shows of did she really say that is that
these are women that are shifting.
They're changing the face of what we believe the world has to
(47:02):
look like or what business needsto look like and saying what if
we do it a little different? And if you've listened in to
Brenna today, did she do it a little different?
Yes. Could it become a norm?
I hope so. Right, so.
I love you. OK.
We are going to have to have youcome back because I know we
(47:23):
talked about in our initial conversation about generation,
the generation gap between like so we, we what it was that
phrase that you use? What's the word you're using?
Generational. Generational gap?
Is it generational gap? Yeah, they're the shift is 63%
of the workforce is coming from millennials and Gen.
(47:44):
Z in 2025. That was as the updated Gallup
report in July. But that span of 63% penetration
of a generational gap along withthe tenured experienced roles,
massive disconnect. But there's a way to lead and
connect through it. And and that ties into building
(48:07):
a magnetic team. So I would love to come back and
discuss that further. So yeah, this is amazing.
Thank you so much. Thank you for for just keeping
it real. Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for being on here. And if you guys love this
episode, give it a thumbs up, follow it, like continue to
follow Brenna and let's just have some fun 'cause that's what
we do here. Did she really say that?
(48:28):
We are all about challenging thenorm, so we'll see you on the
next episode.
Well, welcome to this episode ofDid She Really Say That?
The conversation I'm having withwomen in business around how
they're redesigning business, how they're living their lives
out loud, and how they're challenging the status quos that
we believe should be the norm but really aren't.
It's time for a different conversation.
And that's why you're here with us today because this
(00:23):
conversation with Rihanna is going to be like holy bleep.
And we do cuss. So there might be some words
dropped in here. There might be some foul
language. And you know what, ladies,
welcome to our world. All right, so I am super excited
to have Brianna with us. She is the founder of Legacy
Fulfilled and a newly published author.
(00:43):
This is coming soon, by the way.So you're going to get like
first dibs. Oh my God, look at there it is
first dibs for this. One of the cool things you have
to know about Brenna is that Brenna is a young lady.
And what I mean by this is that by the time she was 28, she was
one of Target's youngest. And I do say Target.
So that is a national company here in the United States.
(01:05):
She was the senior direct district director.
She managed thousands ladies of team members and over 5500 and
$80 million in operations mic drop, right?
So, and in that time, she had a lot of rapid growth, a lot of
promotion, 6 figure bonuses, everything we want and dream
(01:26):
that we should have at that corporate level.
And yet, if you talk to Brenna, she'll tell you that totally
sucked. She felt empty, disconnected
from her authentic self. And she was being asked, oh this
gives me chills just thinking about it 'cause we had this
conversation to cover up something unethical.
She walked away from her corporate success to build
(01:50):
something of significance. Today, through her legacy
fulfilled, she helps high performing women leaders
transform from success into significance.
How many ladies here are resonating with us already,
right? By building your authentic self,
a purpose driven business, right?
This is what we all want. This is why we shift from
(02:11):
corporate into this business world is that we feel called to
do something different, refilled, called to change the
norm. And honestly, Brenna is going to
bring this to you, OK? She is not author.
She's got a beautiful chapter called the beautiful Breakdown,
Rebuilding legacy from the inside out.
You guys have heard this theme throughout most of these podcast
(02:33):
episodes for season 3. It's the inside work.
This book launches at the time of this error into this podcast,
it is launched. I promise you that you're going
to want to get your hands on it.It is be the brand, your story,
your business, your way. Volume 2 is she is it got the
chapter in that that's going to blow your mind and you
(02:53):
absolutely need to read it. This is a powerhouse young lady
and I say that because she is really if I could look back 15
years ago and I said I want to be like Brenna.
I want to I want to have that type of courage and I love
seeing this in our as women thatare coming up and saying, you
(03:13):
know what, let's lead for impact.
So you know what, it is an absolute pleasure to have you
here. Thank you.
Thank you. Oh my gosh, I'm blushing.
I have goosebumps and I think I'm starting to sweat.
That was really sweet and it's never fun to hear yourself spit
back at you, but that was reallyfun to listen to.
(03:35):
Thank you for that and thanks for me.
Absolutely. So when we first did our meet
and greet and when I met you, I was like, holy crap, Brenna's
story is 1 to tell, right? So let's kind of dive into this,
right? Because it's important.
So we're going to go dive back alittle bit in your past.
So you started working at Target.
(03:57):
So talk to us about just kind ofa little bit into that phase.
We're not going to spend a lot of time on there, but I want to
just kind of give like that sense from your perspective.
What was that like? So I am originally born and
raised in Indiana. I'm a Midwest homegrown girl,
thought I would always live in the Midwest.
(04:17):
And like most people, I went to college thinking I would do one
thing and I needed an internshipfor credits to graduate.
And so lo and behold, the bullseye stepped in and I fell
in love with the chaos. Original goal dental hygienist.
I did this internship and I what's funny is I studied
(04:39):
organizational leadership and supervision, which is front door
to back door business with a focus on people development, IE
target in real life. And I decided to start my career
with them. So immediately upon graduation
and 2014 from Purdue University,I started my career and within
(05:00):
three years promoted 3 more times and then in 2019 got
relocated through the company from Indiana out to California,
which is where we live now and the best territory I could have
ever been placed in. And yeah, I stepped into my
dream role as a district senior director four years into my
career and held that role for the next 5 1/2, bringing me to
(05:25):
11 years with the company. What was it like as a female in
that role 'cause I, I tend to wonder, do you get pushed back
by being a female in that type of role?
Yet you're shaking your head. For those of you guys are not
watching the video, she's absolutely shaking her head.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthat.
You betcha, baby. And I had a very unique
(05:46):
trajectory throughout my career.Yes, it moved rapidly quickly.
And with that, I also didn't have necessarily a goal line of
where I wanted to be position, position wise, other than by the
time I retired with the company,which again, big goals, big
(06:07):
dreams I. Was way out there.
Yes, I wanted to be a district senior director, which at the
time my intern up to that was like 4 levels above me.
I'm like this is going to be, I'll be there by the time I
retire. But my path was a assistant
manager was my first salaried position.
Then I stepped into a property management business partner role
(06:30):
and I ran all things property management related across 18
stores in Central IN. And when you you know what that
side of the business is, it's the air conditioning works, the
lights work, the the bathrooms have soap and every building has
a technician, a specialist on site 40 hours a week.
(06:52):
They are the guru and the specialist, most of who are
close to retiring. And my intro would be like, hi,
I'm Brenna, followed by, oh, honey, I have T-shirts older
than you. How are you?
And I'm like, this is going to be so fun.
You just don't know it yet. And that was really in that
(07:13):
position for about 18 months wasa really big humbling eye opener
of just how much I did not fit in to what the norm was
expected. I was the only female in the
room often and I was least tenured, especially for my
direct reports in that role. And I have a lot of energy and a
(07:36):
lot of people in the properties world don't.
And they love what they do and they're good at what they do
because they don't have to interface with the guests a lot
or the team necessarily. And so that was really my first
exposure to that. And then as a from there, I
became a store director. I ran a $50 million building,
and I was the youngest store director on the team.
(07:59):
There was a lot of people who didn't agree that I should have
had the position. There were people that voiced,
oh, yeah, like, she's been here for three years and she's doing
this. It took me 10 to get here.
So there was a lot of that goingon and really I just, I took it
in stride and I see people for people and it's OK if you don't
agree. I'm also going to deliver.
(08:20):
So like you can't fight with that.
And like I'm going to amplify you in the process.
You just don't know it yet. Coming as a senior director and
moving, relocating out to California.
I was one of two females on the team initially out of seven in
our regional territory. But there is only like 3030
(08:42):
something of us in the company. And as you look up even less
females and then you look at theboard and there's like 3, and
then obviously our CEO is a maleannounced retirement this year
or transitioning positions this year, Brian Cornell.
But there really wasn't a lot offemale leaders ahead of me to
(09:04):
also see where I could fit in. So I like to take the approach
from saying yes to property management.
Even if I'm the only one I'm going to do it and figure it
out. Yeah, and, and I love how you
say it because I think, you know, we are still in a time
period where women are stepping into first time roles still.
Like it seems absurd that that'sstill happening, but it is
(09:26):
still. And I look back, it's like it's
only been 50 years. For those of you who've been
listening in 50 years ago, womencould open their first check
insurance account without their husband's signature. 50 years
ago, we started getting into corporate level jobs, doctors,
you know, higher end positions, research, you name it, CEO,
those like this isn't been like generations that we've been
(09:48):
doing this. This is literally less than a
generation that we as women havebeen getting into these roles.
So Brenna, I love that kind of that journey and and I can only
imagine the impact that you probably don't know you left
behind, the ripple effect that you created because in your
leadership, you given permissionfor women to reach and aspire
(10:12):
for that. So in from a heartfelt
standpoint, I want to just recognize you for the bravery,
the courage to transition into roles of unknowingness to be the
one that kind of got the brute force of the, you know, how dare
you, you don't fit in kind of a thing to really redesign the
inside of these companies. So thank you for for going
(10:36):
through that because it does take a strength of character to
to be that woman that says gonnado it anyways.
And I'm still gonna love on every single one of you like
Tada. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
So there was an incident that happened.
We're not diving deep into this one, but there was a moment,
which is what for me when we talked about it, I was like,
(10:56):
damn, I really wish I'd had a conversation with you back when
I was going through something ofa similar effect.
So let's talk just briefly aboutthat before we dive into kind of
what you're you're doing now andthe shift around that
conversation cuz it leads into. Yes, yes it does.
So as I mentioned, there weren'tvery many female leaders above
(11:18):
the positions that I, I found myself in.
And so majority of my career I did work for males and I've had
incredible like the Unicorn typebosses that you're lucky to
interface with. And my, the day finally came
where I, I worked for a female and I was stoked.
You guys like listening to a tenured female in the company,
(11:42):
meaning she has experience, she's got the reputation behind
her, She's a mom of two, She's relocating across the country
for her position. I was like, Oh my gosh, let's
like long overdue. And I can finally see like a
representation of myself. Even though we don't have kids,
(12:03):
I can see someone in that role that's doing it.
Yeah, it was really cool for me.And being at least tenured in my
role at the time, I was kind of the person to on board, if you
will, the new boss. And so be the sounding board, be
the one that gives the hard feedback, be the pulse of the
team when things aren't landing,like throw her a bone and help
(12:25):
her get acclimated. And in my, in the book that just
came out, you'll realize the chameleon side of me stepped
right into this and no problem, I got it and it was really great
until it wasn't. And I say that because as a
professional, a young professional, a female
professional, I pride myself in the relationships that I build.
(12:49):
There is integrity behind it. There is transparency with them,
there is support through them. And so I, I was very real with
that acclimating process and we became a really good team, team
professionally, but we also became very close personally
(13:10):
because she got to know who I am, where I'm from, things about
my family, things that I'm struggling with, my wishes and
desires outside of what I want to do for my profession.
And what I didn't recognize was I was also feeding a lot of ammo
that would come back later and be used almost like to her
(13:32):
benefit right against me, which is not great, but I learned
through that. And all of this, it comes down
to the point that we had gotten so close that after 10 years of
my now husband and I finally getting engaged, yes, we dated
10 years, seven of which were long distance and then he
finally proposed after 10 years.I obviously was very excited and
(13:56):
she had gifted me her wedding earrings as a something borrowed
as a very sweet gesture. I mean, I bawled.
It was like super kind, totally did not need to do that.
But I say that for reference of you don't just do that kind of
thing with anybody. You know, there's like got to be
some sort of of relationship there.
(14:16):
So that was in 2022, and by 2023it took a turn and I no longer
was the sounding board. I rather became the punching bag
and I rather became the safety net of coverage because my job
(14:37):
is to also make my boss's life easier.
You deliver on results, so you do your job and it makes their
life easier. I give the feedback that isn't
landing so that it's heard in a way that lands all those kind of
things. And after getting to know so
much about me as a a person and utilizing that against me almost
(14:57):
is that I was being asked to cover up certain things that she
knew wasn't right. I was being asked to, you know,
tell your team that you I have afamily emergency.
I need you to Take Me Home today.
We're going to cancel visits. Just tell them I have a family
emergency. First of all, my response is OK,
boss, Are you sure? Yes, and then I do that because
(15:20):
I that's just what I do. And then I go home and I don't
sleep for two weeks because I'm like, this is not good.
There's something this is, I know this is wrong.
And in that I chose to stay quiet and to play my role
because this also was my career for 11 years.
This is all I've I've achieved. This is why I live the way we
(15:43):
live. This is me and my identity and
that values cross of being askedto do something I know is not
good and it's like adding a layer in a layer in a layer in a
layer. But I still I could see through
this isn't right. This isn't doesn't feel good.
(16:03):
I don't know what to do. If I talk about it, I'm going to
get fired all these things. So I sat with it and I fought it
for about 18 months. And then that was severe burnout
and anxiety everyday. Anxiety that I, I mean, I
thrived in because it was chaotic in retail, but it was
uncontrollable and it became panic attacks.
(16:25):
It became medication. It became routine therapy every
week. It became sleepless nights and
night terrors. Waking up in a pool of sweat
thinking I peed myself like, no,that was stress.
Eating away at who I am, what I stand for, what I know is right
and wrong, and being silent for way too long so.
(16:47):
And I, and I'm going to stop youright here because I have a feel
a lot of them are like, holy crap, I hear this and I'm I now
I'm self reflecting, right? Like I absolutely can hear from
our women right now. They're sitting here going, Oh,
I'm in that space. Oh, is this what it feels like?
Wait, what's going to happen next?
(17:08):
Now that we kind of pause it to keep you on the edge of your
seat, ladies, like I did this onpurpose, but and I want you to
kind of really see for yourself.There is a point as women and as
a human being in general, where you feel that your values are
compromised. There is a a sense of integrity,
right? It's not necessary morality,
it's integrity. It is the integrity of who you
(17:30):
are. What is that?
Is that about treating people well, right, being good to
people like as a whole? And so when there's something
off, you do feel it. And with Brenda, I mean, you're
talking, it's like an emotional,mental everything.
And it wasn't yours to carry like you stressed over something
that really wasn't yours to carry.
(17:51):
Yeah, and I, I can even tell youduring meetings that did happen
a lot of times, ladies, they gotcancelled or rescheduled and
then they never appeared on the calendar again.
I had even voiced like, I'm uncomfortable.
I don't feel psychologically safe right now.
I'm not OK with this. You know, I, I know I agreed to
(18:12):
this and it's been sitting on mefor months.
I should have brought it up. I don't feel OK.
And it was brought up multiple times in multiple avenues, and
what hurt was like nothing happened.
Nothing. Nothing happened and I'm like,
OK, so clearly I'm just like dramatic as everyone is first to
(18:34):
assume and I'm just losing my mind.
I'm going crazy. I'm not happy in life.
It must be a me problem. Then I go to the.
Wait a minute, it must be a you problem.
I love how we shift responsibility from where it's
at on to other people as a way to displace our sense of hey,
we're part of this, we're part of the problem.
(18:55):
So yes, continue. So I, I, it got so bad that I
was like, I, something's wrong, something's wrong in me and I
don't know what it is. I'm like doing all the stuff
that I'm supposed to be doing. I work out, I drink water, I
eat, not normally, I just eat onthe fly 'cause I work all the
time. I know my pitfalls, I know the
(19:18):
excuses I make for myself, but this is different.
So I met with my doctor and we started conversations and
immediately he is like, I would like to refer you to a
therapist. I would like you to get set up
with a psychiatrist. And of course, I am like, yeah,
OK, like, whatever. I just know I don't feel good.
I can't sleep. I can't look at myself in the
(19:40):
mirror. I am mad.
And I am really young and I'm survive, like doing all these
great things at work. Why does it?
Why do I feel empty? It's hollow.
What the hell is happening? And sure enough, first
conversation with the psychiatrist and the therapist
was like, you are not in alignment with who you are with
(20:03):
within your own integrity and with values that are important
to you. And that, that was a humbling
experience, but the most reassuring comfort I think I've
ever felt because I had made-up in my mind.
(20:23):
Everyone, there's more of me in this company.
There are more of me in this position across the company.
They must all just deal with it and I'm just don't know how to
deal with it yet. That's not it.
OK, I'm gonna stop you again because I can hear everybody
going holy crap. Wait, I, I did because you're,
you're amplifying, I think what a lot of women throughout these
(20:48):
corporate places that went aheadof you have experienced.
And I love this conversation because I feel like you're,
you're voicing the upset that wedidn't even know we were
experiencing or had the opportunity to really look at.
So really grateful, seriously grateful for this, that this
episode, because this is you have literally said some things,
(21:08):
ladies, I know she said you're thinking, did she really say
that? Did she really say that?
Holy crap, I've had that experience.
Like, I know that's what's goingon out there.
Yeah. And I, and I can say to you in
my chapter that it just came outor was published, I mentioned my
family dynamic and the chapter specifically is heavily weighted
(21:29):
on the relationship with my stepfather and his legacy and
how that comes about and why that matters.
But I mentioned this because my dad, my biological dad, is also
my best friend. He's also my role model and he
is a high level executive, always has been, carries a lot
of heavy responsibility, obviously is a male.
(21:50):
And he has always encouraged me to go do and be whoever I want
to be and do it in a way that isrespectful and that you treat
the CEO the same that you would the janitor.
They're human on the other side,regardless of the title they
carry. And Amen, that is like lights
(22:12):
on. Yes, that is when I know I'm
being me. And when it was shrinking or
going against what I felt like Ihad to do, that's where it
started to spiral and it wasn't me that was a problem.
And I know that now it is. It's doing something about it.
(22:33):
And I think what you said just now you, I don't even sure you
caught it, but you said you feltyourself shrinking.
And I think when you have a value base that is to treat a
human being as a human being, nomatter background, race, creed,
position, whatever, and then youget the sense that you cannot do
that and you start to shrink that with ladies, if you're
(22:53):
feeling that in any way, I, I mean, definitely go talk to a
therapist. Go continue, you know, self
discovery. Go, go do some work.
Because there's something there that unlocks a value in you that
when you stand in this value like Brenda has and she's about
to shift into, this transforms everything because it gives you
(23:14):
back the sense of who you are and your purpose again.
So there was a shift. So there was a moment when you
were told to go SHHHHH, yeah, quietly disappear and go into
the night and do your thing. And that's not what happened.
No it is not and I will lead this with I support a severance
(23:40):
package option when it's needed based off your situation.
I recognize I am in a very unique situation, which is why I
was able to make the decision that I'm about to share because
it's also not normal and I realize that.
Wait a minute. I'm going to clarify that this
(24:01):
might seem not normal now and this might be more of a reality
in our future because there's something beautiful in this
process, in this conversation that you're going to share with
us because this is what this is,OK?
Like I want to give permission that this is OK to do because I
think that's the beauty of what you're about to share next.
(24:24):
Yes, thank you for clarifying that.
And so here is basically what happened.
I was in that burnout phase for as long as I physically could
take it. For me, it was about 18 months
and then I finally said that's it.
And I called our HR director, the integrity team.
(24:46):
I submitted all of the feedback that I had collected.
Ladies, keep the receipts. I know it's like a trending joke
and all the stuff that like for real, keep the receipts because
you never know when you might need them.
I had everything from screenshots, photos, text
messages, ignored messages, emails, calendar cancellations.
(25:06):
I had everything submitted up what was happening because the
treatment of me also shifted during this 18 month time frame
obviously. And I'm like this is this is not
good. I am delivering on all fronts.
I'm not a problem performer. My team is cranking out
operations and I am pumping talent.
I know I'm not the problem on delivering and after, after I
(25:29):
opened up that can of worms upward, I got a call the next
day from our HR manager and she's like, you know, at this
level, this is kind of how we proceed and this is what the
options look like. And then there's an offer of
severance. And we want you to be, you want
this to be mutual. We want this to be quick both
for you and for the business. Again, I totally understand the
(25:52):
reason we have a job is to produce and drive sales.
Otherwise it wouldn't exist. However, I refuse to take a
penny because it also comes withan NDA and I know at my level,
the NDA also protects the integrity of the company and
things that you or have exposureto and that's not what it's
(26:14):
about. It also would have limited my
experience in my career of 11 years with this company that I
have achieved. Absolutely not.
I am unable, incapable of talking about mental,
psychological, physical impacts of my time and my tenure.
(26:39):
I'm not here to talk about the calls that come out on New York
with stock numbers and all of that.
That's business. Personal is that I didn't sleep
for days. Personal is that I have been in
therapy weekly for a year and a half talking about a job that
(27:01):
impacted me and my identity as ahuman being and that no one will
ever pay me enough to be quiet about.
So I no, no, thank you. And I left March 29th of 2024.
(27:22):
I decided to step down for my position.
I sent a message to all my mentors and my team and I said,
you know, I appreciate all the work we've done and I hope to
stay in touch. I'm staying in Folsom.
My number stays the same. And I left and I left because I
had been cornered into this is the only way out.
(27:44):
Is this this severance and NDA? And I said what I did at the
beginning about I understand howfortunate I am to be able to
have made that decision. The reason that I could is
because I've also worked since Iwas 14.
Every dollar my husband and I have, we have earned saved.
We're insane savers. But I also knew financially we
(28:08):
are OK. We looked at every single thing
that was included from benefits coverage, medical coverage,
options for retirement, stock funds, executive deferral
programs, everything. What is what am I choosing to
walk away from and what do we have as a safety net that I
(28:29):
don't have to rely on surviving by taking the severance.
And I recognize that not everyone is set up in that
financial situation, which is why I say for those that have
accepted that offer, you're not wrong if that was the best
decision for you at that time. You're not wrong for signing the
(28:50):
NDA because it is required in order to accept the severance.
However, no, that I did not in that I now have the ability to
not only be an advocate and a voice for myself, but an
advocate and a voice for you because the experience of what
you went through and what you internally dealt with in your
(29:14):
own identity, rocks and ships and everything else.
There are threads of similarity across anyone that has been in
that situation and I chose to decline it so that I could save
my voice and save the integrity with it.
And I think that's something that I, I honestly admire and
(29:34):
love about you because there is the sense of shame and blame for
a lot of things that happen at the level of corporate.
It's just it's been embedded in the fabric of what it's done
right. And I, and it's not to say it's
right or wrong. There is multiple ways in which
business is run and there is thesense of things are changing.
(29:57):
And what I love with what you'reyou're sharing is that in this
entire episode, not once did I feel like you were going after
anyone. Not once did I feel like there
was an upset with your journey, your experience.
What was the upset was as human beings, will we create
businesses? We have to create a safe space
(30:19):
for all of us as human beings tointeract with each other in a
way that if at any time our values feel like they're been
challenged, we have the opportunity to go and voice that
in a space that invites collaboration, invites those
conversations so that each humanbeing deals with something in
their life at any level. Like, I don't know what was
(30:40):
going on in your life, her life,company life, everything else.
Like there could have been a multitude of things, right?
So to sit here and point fingersand say, Oh my gosh, you were so
right in doing that. That's not the conversation
we're having. The conversation we're having is
that it's OK to shift our conversations and still mutually
be grateful for the experiences.Brenna has said to you this
(31:03):
crafted like her experiences, the level of experience that she
got, the growth that she got, the personal one-on-one training
that she got over her career hasgifted her the ability to come
forward now and say, yeah, this is my voice, this is who I am,
this is what I'm going to help. But it's the skill sets she
picked up. It wasn't the business, it was
the skill sets. It was the people she's in when
(31:26):
you're talking. How many people did you have on
teams? Thousands of people on your
teams. About 3200 in PQ 4, and that's
across 10 Target stores in two states.
Do you realize how many people have impacted you and you've
impacted them? It brings me to tears of the
impact that they've made on me. Yeah, like the.
Person. Every single one of you touched
(31:48):
your life, gave you something tolearn, gave you something to
challenge you, gave you some newperspective.
And I think that's the beauty ofwhat you're bringing forth is
like every person hadn't had something to contribute, good,
bad, you know, indifferent. Whatever it is that many people
to be around will shift perspectives for you like that.
(32:11):
It's not. It's not a just me mentality
when you're playing at that level and you're responsible for
a community of human beings to perform and find talent and to
nurture and grow, that you yourself have no choice but to
grow. Correct.
Correct. It's incredible.
Yeah. And that's the, that's what I
(32:32):
hear when I talk with you is that there's just there's a
level of growth because of who you've connected with, the
people that you've connected with.
So that ladies, if you're listening, this is the
conversation that I hope you areable to have, even the gentleman
that I know that are here listening also, it's OK to have
(32:52):
a voice. It's OK to say no, to protect
your voice. Not everything needs to be
silenced. And I think that's the
conversation that really shows up for me in here, Brenna, is
that it's not always OK to be silenced.
There are other avenues in whichwe could pursue.
And I think you opened the door that said, could there have been
(33:13):
another way? And that's the possibility I
think you presented and everything we shared on this
episode is there's a possibilityof another way.
And as at a corporate level, as an entrepreneur that's building
businesses, I want to gift you what Brenna just said because
that I want you to take into your business as you grow, that
(33:37):
I want you to take in as part ofyour personal development.
Conflict isn't to be ignored. Conflict is an opportunity to
learn. Yes.
Yes. Especially as a leader of a team
of one if as an entrepreneur or a team of many.
If you are an entrepreneur and have multiple contractors and
(34:01):
support people in your roles or you're actually in a role at
corporate leading large teams. No matter what you are.
Dinner table conversation for someone else every single day.
How you make them feel is what dictates how that conversation
(34:22):
goes. And as a leader, I in my role at
Target, that is something I thought about all the time.
Anything that I'm doing, am I OKwith who I am at night if it
shows up on the headlines of thenews or the front page of the
paper? If not, probably shouldn't be
doing it. Next is for my team.
(34:44):
Even when they we disagree, evenwhen they challenge back, which
I encourage a lot, by the way, that's good.
That's gross. Because I'm also getting to know
what matters to them and why andmaking them feel heard and being
able to go home and have the dinner table conversation that
(35:05):
you're not going to believe this.
We got into this huge discussiontoday.
But you know what? I felt heard like we don't have
a resolution yet. Or she she said, yes, how cool
that dinner table conversation about how I had made my team
feel that means I'm doing my jobas a leader, not, you know, I
tried to bring this up, I got shut down or unavailable again
(35:28):
or just got told how bad I am. I'll just stick to doing what
I'm doing. That's not it.
That's not, that's not amplifying leaders.
So. Yeah, so one of the things
that's interesting, and I'll share this as part of my
background because I feel like this is what sets us a part as
female leaders also is that ability to listen and connect.
So when I was in corporate space, so I for those that know,
(35:50):
I worked at Walt Disney World for 13 years as a chef.
Like that was my my big thing. And at the end of my career.
So I actually went from full time to part time to no time
with Disney. I actually transitioned to my
way out, right? One of the things I recognized
early on, especially as a leaderin somebody in management, is
that as you're working with yourteam, they want to be heard.
(36:10):
There is going to be a moment asyou're sitting there, and I
always call it the kitchen. All of a sudden the kitchen got
quiet, right? There was an angst, there was an
upset. There was a dispute between
somebody. There's something that would
happen, right? And you're thinking of like,
yeah, that's that's true, right?There's always a moment where
there's a calm and then there's,like, chaos.
(36:31):
And so one of the things that kind of came up for me was I
called it the back dock party. All right, So in the kitchen, if
you guys ever worked in a restaurant and even at Target,
there's a back dock. It's where all the freight
trucks come in to drop produce and everything you need, right?
Yeah. It's it's a disaster.
Usually back there, you're sitting next to a dumpster.
There's crates everywhere. It's not the prettiest
(36:51):
environment, but we do keep it clean, OK, because that's a
standard. You're buildings, you know, you
know that you got to keep that error clean.
So I would do a back dock party.I'm like, so I'd feel the unrest
and I would say you're still on the clock.
We're going to take 30 minutes. I'm going to continue to pay
you. We're going to go on the back
dock. I'm going to feed you ice cream
and we're going to sit here and figure out what the flock is
(37:11):
going on, right? Yes.
Right. So I said, OK, I'm taking my
name tag off like I'm still on the clock.
But the sense of taking the nametag off, right, I'm not in a
position of authority. I am now sitting here with you
wanting to know what is going onin this kitchen because that is
the only way. And so it would be a time I was
like, if you need to smoke, smoke.
If you want to have an ice cream, have an ice cream.
(37:31):
Like whatever feels good for you, for, you know, the cuss
like I have, There's nothing that's going to get written up,
right. Yeah, Yep.
But that sense of they get to come together and have what
would be a pretty much a bitch session, right?
Yeah. Cleared so much space, cleared
so much space to be able to havethem be able to be heard, have
(37:56):
the opportunity to have somebodylisten to them.
And I could say, you know what, I could resolve this.
This is what I know. Like I can't tell them
everything that's maybe going on, but I can say that might not
be possible. But I'll continue to look into
it and get back to you on that, right?
And then honoring my word to getback to him on that.
What can we change, right? So it's not just listening, but
it's also honoring your word andsaying this.
(38:18):
I'm going to follow up with you on what that is.
So I think when you talk about, you know, what are you creating
in your in your workplace? That's the integrity, right?
Like those are the moments I maynot agree with my boss.
He would he'd always say that stupid.
That's not, you know, why do youdo that?
And I was like, because it's me and it's the one way I resolve
crisis in the kitchen. Otherwise it's just going to
(38:38):
Stew, brew, and boil over. Yep, yes.
And it's not a safe place anymore, and nobody wants to
work in an environment where they don't feel safe.
Exactly. And that's so.
The back dock party is so funny.When I was a store director, we
did the same thing and it was inthe freezer because everybody
just needs to cool off. So we all just go stand in the
(39:00):
big walk in freezer together. As a district senior director,
it was a 2 minute rule and I washands off, gloves off.
Like tell me what you're thinking.
I'm going to start the clock. You got 2 minutes go.
And I would just let it happen. And then I'm like time and
everybody took a deep breath andthen we could move on.
(39:21):
Then as a multi unit leader, I could call them one-on-one or go
to their building and say, let'sgo take a walk and we walk
outside of the building in circles and we get to the bottom
of the problem. But had I not opened up two
minutes to let the floodgates out, I would have totally missed
(39:43):
so many incredible moments of development and support for my
team. So that is a great way to
continue to be a human leader that builds a team that people
want to be a part of, and that is what I do.
So let's dive into what it is you do now.
So transition. So we're talking this a little
over a year. You've moved out of this space,
(40:05):
you're now building the legacy fulfilled.
What is that? What are you being called to?
What are you being called to? And who do you want to be
working with? Oh, this is so exciting.
So I am about a year and a half in business under legacy
fulfilled as a solopreneur and Ihave a mighty team of three that
helped me make wonders out of the work that I build.
(40:28):
And here's what we got going on.So three kind of avenues of
working together of current day.First off is working one-on-one
with me as your leadership coach.
Some call it a career coach, some of them call it a
leadership coach. I like a legacy building coach
that's more one-on-one focused on the inner work personally and
(40:52):
the ripple effect through your leadership in life.
That's in your corporate role that can be as an entrepreneur,
that can be as a stay at home mom.
You are a leader to your family.Anybody that looks, listens,
watches, that is influence. That is a leadership role.
(41:12):
And whether or not it's in your title, it's the responsibility
of being a leader. That's the we do one-on-one.
It's super fun. My client roster is just, I get
fueled just as much as they get fueled.
And it is about you as the client.
I give you all the skills and tactics.
(41:33):
If it is very work, focus driven.
I had a client this week. We built out a huge talent
succession strategy plan for herto implement and to use.
So you kind of get both lanes ofwhat that looks like.
Then I've got the consultant side.
So this is more for teams of people through corporations and
(41:56):
or through teams that bring me in and they want to do a total
team training. So my specialty is building
magnetic teams that people want to stay on.
Obviously, that includes generational differences, how to
have hard conversations, how to engage and minimize retention of
(42:18):
your team that actually is controllable.
Leadership is a learnable skill.You're just not taught that in
the training that you're given at the company.
You're taught how to execute anddeliver, which I also respect,
but you got to know how to lead and retain your people.
So that is my consulting lane. And I build those out with the
companies around what they really are focused on giving
(42:39):
back to their people. And I do that in a way that I
know is also going to resonate and develop their people. 3rd
lane is through awareness. So I am a professional speaker.
I have 4 speaking engagements over the next 30 days.
So if you're in San Francisco, Orange County, Folsom or Las
(43:02):
Vegas, I will be in your area over the next month speaking.
I will be giving out copies of the book and be able to share
kind of like that side as a support tool because there are
me alongside 5 other female entrepreneur authors who share
why they started their business.The whole point of this
(43:23):
publishing is the founder story behind the business that fuels
it. That is not something to talk
about when I'm leading a training.
That's not something to talk about as a speaker.
I am there for you to provide value.
So if you want to know the whys and legacies and why they're so
important, that's what this is for.
(43:43):
And hopefully to also inspire you and allow a mirror for you
to see yourself. But outside of the speaking
engagements and doing some stuffwith the book tour and things
like that, I have my own podcast.
I am a guest obviously on podcast.
I'm very active on socials and on LinkedIn and just growing a
community of leaders who want tostand tall in their values.
(44:08):
That is not me pushing my valueson you.
That is you identifying what they they look like and mean to
you and how you live fully in them every day so that in turn
you build a legacy as a leader that you can look back on one
day and be proud of. I hope you all just follow her
like right now because Brenna has brought this conversation in
(44:32):
full circle and starting off with, you know, you can tell
she's got the energy. I can see why you rose through
ranks fairly quickly because there is that sense of growth
and personal awareness. And while, while an upset
happened, I think that made you a stronger voice in what you're
doing. And like I say with anybody
(44:54):
that's come from that corporate background, there's a skill set
you learn that can be brought in.
Like I always tell people, I said I came from Disney and
trust me, there's a lot of skillsets and a lot of things that
Disney has done well in customerservice relationships that I
bring in to businesses. Because once you learn that
culture and you were in it for 11 years, I was in mine for 13
years, you, you don't unlearn that.
(45:15):
Like you just kind of evolve it into the next piece.
You take the best of and you bring it forward.
So I would, I could say that like working with you would be
an absolute treat and you are absolutely focused on the
people. And I think when we get back to
not the dollar bills and the dollar that runs the company,
(45:36):
but the people that make the impact from the from the bottom
up, that is where we start to shift and change what leadership
is. And we get back to the
fundamentals of, of making a difference in this world, not
just building for a dollar, but building for humanity.
Yes, that is what it's all about.
Because at the end of the day, Iam a human just like everybody
(45:58):
on my team, whether it is in a corporate role or it is as a
client, as an entrepreneur through my business.
It's about the impact, the influence and the legacy that is
being left and made in the livesof other people.
That is what leadership is about.
So I, I love this conversation and I love the work that you are
(46:19):
doing. I have listened to a lot of
episodes and yes, she did reallysay that.
So thank you for listening to this episode and connect with
me. I like I said, I'm very active
on socials. I can provide my links and bio
and all the stuff for the show notes.
All of that will be in the show notes, so that's all taken care
of. So wherever you're listening to
(46:40):
this podcast, then the show notes are every way you can
possibly connect with Brenna andjust follow her, fall in love
with her and if her style resonates, work with her.
Yes, that that is where this is the episode.
These are the the shows of did she really say that is that
these are women that are shifting.
They're changing the face of what we believe the world has to
(47:02):
look like or what business needsto look like and saying what if
we do it a little different? And if you've listened in to
Brenna today, did she do it a little different?
Yes. Could it become a norm?
I hope so. Right, so.
I love you. OK.
We are going to have to have youcome back because I know we
(47:23):
talked about in our initial conversation about generation,
the generation gap between like so we, we what it was that
phrase that you use? What's the word you're using?
Generational. Generational gap?
Is it generational gap? Yeah, they're the shift is 63%
of the workforce is coming from millennials and Gen.
(47:44):
Z in 2025. That was as the updated Gallup
report in July. But that span of 63% penetration
of a generational gap along withthe tenured experienced roles,
massive disconnect. But there's a way to lead and
connect through it. And and that ties into building
(48:07):
a magnetic team. So I would love to come back and
discuss that further. So yeah, this is amazing.
Thank you so much. Thank you for for just keeping
it real. Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for being on here. And if you guys love this
episode, give it a thumbs up, follow it, like continue to
follow Brenna and let's just have some fun 'cause that's what
we do here. Did she really say that?
(48:28):
We are all about challenging thenorm, so we'll see you on the
next episode.
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