November 3, 2025 • 50 mins
Episode Summary
In this enlightening episode, host Katrina van Oudheusden opens up a crucial conversation about burnout—specifically how it uniquely impacts women, both personally and professionally. Joining her is special guest Elisa Calosso, an expert in guiding women through the throes of burnout by focusing on self-regulation techniques and emotional freedom practices. Elisa shares her personal journey of combating burnout and offers insights into practices like EFT tapping to empower listeners to address their mental and physical health proactively.
Key Discussion Points
Introduction to Burnout: Katrina discusses the increasing rate of burnout among women compared to men, emphasizing the importance of addressing this issue openly.
Elisa’s Personal Journey: Elisa shares her experiences with extreme stress, anxiety, and burnout in a corporate environment and how these challenges led her to discover alternative healing practices.
EFT Tapping Explanation: Elisa explains the basics of Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT), including a brief demo of the tapping points and how this method can help regulate the nervous system.
Signs of Burnout: The discussion highlights physical symptoms of burnout, such as headaches and tension, and emphasizes listening to one’s body.
Strategies for Self-Regulation: Elisa offers practical advice on incorporating mindfulness and tapping into daily routines to manage stress and avoid burnout.
Elisa’s Professional Path: Her transition from a corporate career to entrepreneurship, and the challenges and rewards of building a business around holistic health practices.
Raising Awareness: The importance of education and promoting holistic health approaches to prevent and manage burnout.
Guest Bio
Elisa Calosso is a dedicated coach and practitioner specializing in helping women overcome stress, anxiety, and burnout through alternative methods such as EFT tapping and yoga. With a background in human resources, Elisa has transformed her personal struggles into a mission to guide others toward holistic healing and emotional freedom.
Recommended Resources
Learn More About EFT Tapping: Additional detailed guides and video resources can be found where Elisa demonstrates these techniques.
Thanks for listening! If you are enjoying our podcast, leave a comment below. We love hearing from our fans and other female entrepreneurs! We are collaborating to make business better for every woman! Feel free to share this podcast on your favorite social platform. And if you are listening on any of the podcast platforms, we would love it if you could post a 5-star review. Please, help us get our message out! Together, we discover how each woman has the power to unlock another woman when we are open about what we are redefining as women in business.
About Your Host: Katrina van Oudheusden
Former Chef at Walt Disney World® Resort, Restaurateur, Speaker, and CEO of Truth Bomb Marketing. Katrina is a sought-after consultant for small business growth among female entrepreneurs.
She created a revolutionary business training method called ‘CreatHER™ Business Rewire’. Weaving together time, money, and business growth by preventing burnout and strengthening female leadership skills.
Alongside the CreatHER™ Planner, women are finally experiencing less stress in all areas of their lives. When the focus begins with HERself, women discover a freedom to dream big, increase revenue, and design a marketing strategy that works for them.
CreatHer Money Revolution: http://creathersummit.com
Blog: https://truthbombmarketing.com/blog
CreatHER Planner: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-planner-2026
CreatHER Reset: http://truthbombmarketing.com/reset
CreatHER Business Rewire: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-business-rewire/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to Did she just really say that the podcast episode
that's changing the way we talk about business as women, because
let's be honest, we as women arechanging and and shifting what
we've been taught around the business world, how it's
affecting us both mentally and physically, the stress we're
(00:22):
enduring in this process. So this episode is really for
all my women out there that haveexperienced burnout, maybe are
going through it themselves or don't even know what burnout
actually looks like. So I'm excited because we're
having this amazing conversationtoday with Elisa.
Is it Elisa? That's correct.
So I'm making sure I'm just pronouncing everyone's name
(00:43):
right. So this is gonna be talking to
us today about this conversation.
It's gonna be really interesting.
So I want you to listen in and just, you know, join this
journey with us, right? So Elisa empowers professional
professionals and entrepreneurial women to
overcome burnout, stress, anxiety, and overwhelm by
addressing the root cause of their challenges.
(01:03):
And this is something that often, as I talk with women, we
ignore. We kind of suppress this.
Now what makes Elisa really interesting is she has a
background in human resources inthe corporate world and during
her personal journey, she struggled with burnout.
She had high anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia.
Is this ringing any bells for any of my women out there?
(01:26):
So really right now her mission as she's left the corporate
world and really brought her experience into the
entrepreneurial and professionalworld is to guide women towards
emotional freedom and and give them support as they reclaim
your sense of purpose. Women, this is something we
really need in our lives. So I love this because her
unique approach as a human resource and her experience
(01:48):
around that really looks at the whole person.
So human resource people are pretty intuitive on their own.
And her goal is to really help clients and uncover those root
issues, right? So if you find that you're
exhausted, if you find that things are deteriorating your
health, you really want to talk to Lisa because this is what
(02:12):
she's going to share with us. And this is this gives you
somebody to go talk to, right? She has an extensive background
in academia. She's got a bachelor's of
science, a master's degree. You can read about all this
inside the show notes of what she's done.
She's got certifications. She does energy psychology
practitioner. She's a professional life
(02:32):
success coach. She's a yoga instructor.
She is absolute freaking lutely amazing and I'm so excited that
we're having this conversation on.
Did she really say that? Because we don't talk about
burnout, we just let it go. So welcome to this episode and
(02:53):
thank you so much for being hereand then having this
conversation with me and our audience here today.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Katrina.
It's my pleasure to be here withyou and your audience.
So let's talk about you're kind of your journey, let's get a
little bit of sense and I know Iread a little bit about this,
but talk to me about that whole burnout and what that was like
for you in that corporate space.Well, first of all, I didn't
(03:17):
know I had burned out. I found out when I was already
going through probably the end of the stage of burned out
because they're actually 5 stages you go through according
to research and the information that it's out there.
So that's one thing that sometimes we don't even know.
(03:38):
And it's not necessarily just feeling exhausted.
There can be any other symptoms that we ignore and it's
important to detect them early on so they don't become chronic.
So for me, I was highly stressed.
I always had this pressure in mychest.
(04:01):
Sometimes I feel like maybe there is something wrong with my
heart. I need to get checked.
And I would go to a doctor and everything would come out
normal. All my blood work, all my
physical test, everything was normal.
But I still felt short shortnessof breath, like palpitations,
(04:22):
and I couldn't really relax. And it got worse and worse until
I couldn't really have a full night's sleep.
And then I started getting panicattacks.
And every time I would go to a doctor it would be the same
story. Your blood work, it's normal.
You are OK. So.
(04:44):
'Cause you're like, I'm not, OK,Something is going on and I
don't know. And honestly, Lisa, what it's
interesting is as I continue andyou as women are listening to
this podcast, you're gonna hear this as a reoccurring theme with
a lot of women. Like they all go through this
high anxiety, stress, burnout. And I think that's why this
(05:04):
conversation is so important because getting this awareness
that women are burning out and we are burning out faster than
the men. The men do experience burnout,
but there is a faster rate of burnout for women than really at
any other time. And I think it's it's a blend of
a lot of different things you'regoing to hear in this entire
(05:26):
season for Season 3 on did she really say that?
You're going to hear a lot of different ways that this shows
up. So, yeah, keep talking about
this. So you're you're burned out,
you're going through this. Doctors are saying everything's
OK What happens? Next and then what's happening
is I'm being prescribed, I'm being prescribed medication for
(05:46):
anxiety, for depression and justthat.
And that's not really helping. And at the same time, I'm not
really accepting the medication and like, I don't really want to
take this, OK, I'm going to giveit a try.
But every time I would go, my symptoms continue to be the same
(06:07):
or worse. So I didn't really see progress.
And so it was like, I was in this like vicious kind of loop
where I wasn't going anywhere. And it was very frustrating
because I, I, I felt like I was alone in this whole journey
(06:27):
until one day when I went to my specialist, she just told me,
like, I don't know what else to try with you.
Then again, increase your medication.
And I remember being in the parking lot, so disappointed, so
sad, so frustrated and just thinking, OK, is this like a
(06:50):
life sentence? Am I going to be on medication
and just increasing my dosage and that's it?
And so at that point, it was like a decision that I had to
make. OK, I have to do something about
it. I'm not going to depend only on
medication. I have.
I feel like this is deeper. It's deeper work, something that
(07:13):
I have to probably do. I don't know how, but that's
when I started doing more research.
It was a long journey trying to look for different alternatives.
I try a lot of different things until finally I think I found
(07:34):
what resonated with me and what really resonated were were
practices that help me regulate my nervous system.
So I started meditation, I started with yoga, I started
started with Reiki, things like that little by little.
And I would just think like I would dream, when would I feel
(07:57):
like normal again? When will that day come?
And honestly, that day didn't come like I dreamt of that day
because it's never going to be the same.
And that's one thing that I got to accept.
Not that things got worse, actually things got even better
(08:20):
than before. And so that was interesting to,
to experience. And also it's a journey.
I had this like dream that just somebody would come and save me
and I will never suffer again. And it doesn't work that way.
And I think what you pointed to in this conversation so far, as
(08:42):
you know, oftentimes what we experience as women, as we're
told, we're imagining things that that's not really going on
with us. And I think in a lot of
respects, the, the medical industry itself is, it is that
it's a practice, right? So it's a medical practice.
We as women have the least amount of experience with our
complexity of our bodies of really being diagnosed.
(09:04):
So we do, we get things like anxiety medication, depression
medication, thinking that's whatwe're dealing with.
But as you've talked about, there's a root cause.
There's something else that's actually going on.
And I think as women, I love what you're sharing is that
sometimes you have to do the meditation.
It might seem like it's not something you can quiet your
(09:24):
mind around, but there's this journey of like quieting your
mind, quieting your body. And as women, we are such in a
fight or flight state so often, even in the workforce, trying to
prove ourselves, trying to get the seat at the table, trying to
do more 'cause we're still don'tfeel like we've done enough,
(09:45):
right? Like we have different status
quos between men and women stillto this day where like we could
over deliver and it still doesn't feel like we've done
enough, right? And so we're constantly striving
to do more. But that's not helping us.
It's starting to cause the physical, bodily reaction.
(10:07):
And then it's like, OK, now I got to start paying attention to
my body because something else is going on.
And you said, you know, sitting in the car, am I going to be
medicated for the rest of my life?
And that thought even to me, would scare the shit out of me,
right? So I am thank you for being so
(10:29):
transparent in this conversationbecause it, it is something I
think we as women need to be talking more about and learning
from each other and giving ourselves different, more
holistic ways to approach what we're doing.
So let's dive into some of the signs you talked about some of
the hidden signs of burnout, some things that we may not
recognize. And you were towards the end.
(10:50):
So what do we need to be aware of as women around?
What does burnout look like? What are some of those
precursors we can start looking for?
Any kind of misalignment, meaning like when you start
experiencing stomach issues, forexample, when you're started
(11:10):
getting a lot of headaches or physical tension, like always,
like having this back pain or neck pain or a lot of tightness
in your body, those are early symptoms.
Your body's talking to you. And so we sometimes ignore it
and we just take a Tylenol. Oh, no, it's just a headache.
(11:32):
I'm just tired. OK.
If you're tired, then why don't you take a break and, you know,
let your body recover? Or sometimes we are dehydrated.
We're not drinking enough water,and that's why we have a
headache. But we decide to, you know, take
a pill to help us with that. So those are the, the, the body.
(11:53):
Again, it's talking, it's talking to us.
And I think it is really important to pay to everything
that our body is telling us on adaily basis.
And so that's what I learned in my own process, listening to my
own body and not going against my body, understanding myself
(12:13):
more and more. And also during this journey, I,
I, I actually put a name to, to my own personality time.
I'm highly sensitive personality.
So before I didn't know what that was.
I heard about empath, I heard about sensitive people and I saw
(12:37):
it as something bad or like maybe weak, like, oh, you're so
sensitive, right. And, and now it makes much more
sense to me. And I don't see it as a weakness
actually. I see it as a superpower because
I got to understand what are my strengths being that way.
So and, and so I, I know that I have to work in certain ways and
(13:02):
give myself that permission. So yeah, it's, it's been a
discovery journey for sure. Is this, I mean did was part of
this? What had you like leave
corporate space and really startdesigning and building your own
business because you started listening to your body more?
In a way, but I also think I left corporate because it was
(13:24):
meant to be. I actually was forced to.
It wasn't really a decision thatI made.
It was just that my job didn't worked out at that point and I
left. I was still looking for a job,
but in that search I ended up going back to school because
there was such a good opportunity for me.
(13:45):
And I decided, you know what, this is so good that I really, I
want to bring this to the world and it will make me so happy if
I can have my own business and just do this from the outside.
Like not necessarily being in a corporate job, not that I'm
against that. And maybe in the future I go
back, I don't know. But like being able to go back
(14:07):
and bring the programs from my own place, like having that
flexibility. Yes, it's it's something that I
am enjoying right now. I mean, you're lit up about it,
like you're truly a light in this joy and thinking.
And because one thing that came up to me, as you were saying,
like if I do go back to corporate, I was like, yeah, you
(14:28):
get to bring, at least it gets to bring all of this that she's
learned into these environments.And I think that's also critical
too, right? At some point as we start
developing and Start learning about ourselves as women and
what that empathy, that sensitivity is such a superpower
like you talk about, it is such a gift from God in the universe
(14:51):
to have that and to be able to bring it into these rigid
corporate spaces. I think as as slowly it's
starting to get recognized just how important women are in these
spaces because we bring that to the the table because otherwise
we're just creating robots and it's not any fun, right?
So as a woman, did you have any like as you're making this
(15:15):
transition from your health, you're starting to get into
Reiki? Like were there any like, did
you have like, this isn't gonna work?
This is woo woo, this is silly. Like, did you have any moments
kind of like where you're babbling yourself as you're kind
of going down this more, you know, homeopathic way of taking
care of yourself? I was open.
I try many things because of that desperation at the
(15:39):
beginning. So I remember even a friend from
work, she recommended somebody she was seeing.
And this person was travelling and I wasn't going to be able to
see her like in two months. And I was so excited to see her
like two months later. But I learned also to be patient
and to start also trusting myself because I was trusting
(16:01):
more in others. I've tried a lot of things, but
if you ask me like what was the thing that really help you and
resonate? It was actually EFT tapping.
So that's one of the practices that I incorporate in my, in my
coaching. And, and it's one that it, it
(16:24):
brings a lot of the things that I've tried before and it's what
really gave me faster relief andlike really helped me go even
deeper. And to it's because it's a
combination not only of it's a somatic practice, but it also
digs into psychology. So it's very, very
(16:49):
comprehensive. It has a lot of components that
to me has worked on very, very well.
And also I've seen changes, likevery quick changes and lasting
changes to the people that I've worked with.
So yeah. Now talk to me a little bit
about tapping. For those that are listening in
(17:10):
that may have never heard of this phrase or they're still
unsure of it, maybe somebody mentioned it in passing.
Can we dive a little bit more into what is that?
What is it E? So EFT, it stands for Emotional
Freedom Techniques, and sometimes you hear technique,
but it's actually a number of different techniques that we
(17:33):
use. Actually it's I believe 48
techniques if I remember correctly.
And these techniques, well, it'svery basic when you see it
because it's actually tapping onacupressure points in the body,
mostly in the upper body. And there are nine of them that
you use in what they call the basic recipe.
(17:54):
So essentially when you tap on these pressure points, you are
sending a calm signal to the amygdala in the brain.
So you are interrupting the fight or flight response.
So just doing that and breathing, it's already a
practice that it is very, very potent.
(18:15):
I will say it's very effective. You don't even have to
incorporate words yet. But if you add words to it,
meaning how you are feeling, andyou really tell the truth about
what's going on, that allows your nervous system to trust the
process and eventually go even deeper on what's going on, like
(18:38):
even going deeper and reaching the root of the issue.
So that's what I love about thistechnique.
It's not like talk therapy whereyou just sit and talk about your
problem. In a way somehow you do, but you
are releasing whatever it's going on because it's you're
using your body to help you process what's happening behind
(19:01):
the scenes. So that's why it's like
combination of asthmatic with somatic practice with
psychology. So you're tapping it, basically.
You're literally tapping into the nervous system.
Yes, through. So you talked about the nine
points. I know that we're on, some of
you guys are going to be able tosee the video, some of you
aren't. So can you kind of walk me
through the 9 pieces like the nine, like just point it out so
(19:24):
we can kind of get a sense of dowe tap a lot?
Like is it like? No, not hard.
You can, you can. There are people that are more
sensible than other and you can just hold the point.
So for example, the first point is the side of the hand.
Is it the right hand or left hand?
Any. Hand.
Right or ladder? Yes, because these points, these
(19:46):
are Meridian points in the body.So this goes back to Chinese
medicine and they run the same way in both, both side of the
body. So it doesn't matter if you do
one side or the other. And there are some points that
you can tap on one point or the two points.
So I'll show you. The first one is the side of the
hand, and it's actually every point is connected to a organ in
(20:10):
the body. The side of the hand is.
Then hope the hand is connected to the to the Smalling testing.
So here 2. Fingers, one hold.
I'm asking for all my viewers. Is it one finger?
2 fingers, Whole hand? How do you tap?
4/4 fingers. 4 fingers, OK. Like this.
Or you can hold the point. Yes, and you just test it and
(20:35):
see how it feels for you. Some people like to put a little
bit more pressure, tap a little bit faster.
I like to play with it. If you do it slower, it's like,
OK, you're sending this message to slow down.
You are telling your nervous system, it's OK, we can slow
down, we can take it easy. Interesting.
(20:57):
OK. Here we create actually a setup
statement. So if we're using words, we're
actually here going to create a phrase, OK.
And the phrase, it's gonna have two parts.
The first part, it's telling thetruth about the problem.
So it's not affirmations. We're not in affirmations yet.
(21:17):
We'll get. There but this is what she's
gonna help you deal with later when you start working with her.
But we're we're demoing this outhere on this podcast, OK?
Yeah. And so it will look something
like this, even though I'm stressed right now or even
though I'm having this headache or this tension in my body, in
(21:38):
this moment I am breathing or inthis moment I am safe or in this
moment, I have compassion for the way I'm feeling.
Like you would have to complete it with a sentence that makes
sense to you. If you see someone like the
YouTube videos or the traditional way that they do it,
they would say something like I deeply and completely love and
(22:01):
accept myself. But sometimes that's not the
case. And that may sound like, you
know, it's like so. Yeah, because it's not talking
to, you're not having that real self conversation with yourself
because what part of what tapping is, my understanding is
it's self regulating for you. So it's whatever your body's
feeling, whatever is coming up for you.
(22:22):
So you're addressing that with your own body, not necessarily
what the I feel great in love and I'm so excited about myself
kind of a thing, yes. You can say, and this is how I'm
feeling right now. It sucks, you know.
So tell the truth. That's really what you're being
told. That's the first thing and it's
(22:43):
exposing. So this is exposed exposure
therapy. So that's why it's telling the
truth. And then the cognitive part of
it, it's like some kind of reassuring yourself of you know
where you're at without sugar coating things, without having
to be. You don't have to be positive or
to like, you know to out there. All right.
(23:07):
Interesting, because I switched hands over here.
For those that aren't watching this, I actually just switched
hands and I got a totally different sensation through my
body just by tapping over here. I was like, oh, well, that's
that's a different feeling. So I could see.
Yeah, that's interesting. And the other interesting thing
is that if you think about the small intestine, the function of
it is to separate your nutrientsor whatever serves you, it will
(23:34):
be sent to your bloodstream. And whatever doesn't serve you,
it will be sent for elimination.So when you're doing this in an
emotional, energetic way, that'swhat you're doing.
You are, you know, you have. OK, you let's see, let's say you
ate something and this is where you're at.
You're not feeling very well. OK, now let's just absorb what's
(23:57):
serving me and letting go what doesn't.
OK, I like that. So the side of the hand where
else? Let's do like 2 more.
Then I'll run you through the points quickly because the other
points it's just you, you repeatthe reminder phrases.
So it would be something like distress and distress or
(24:21):
whatever it's going on. You talk about it.
So the the second point is the crown of the head.
So actually the way you find it is you put your thumb on your
ears and then you ring your middle finger at the top and
that's where the point is. So it's that soft area where you
were when you were a baby. So right there.
(24:42):
OK, so that's right. That's where you're tapping
because I never figured where you could tap on your head
everyone was because like everyone's hand size and head is
differently. OK.
And again, 4 fingers. Yes, 4 fingers.
Then the the the the next point is the eyebrow point.
So right where the eyebrow beginand you can 2 fingers.
(25:03):
Two fingers. Yeah.
And then the next point, it's right by the side of the eyes,
not by the temple, but right next to the eyes.
OK. Make sure you don't poke your
eye, OK? And we're doing a two finger tap
on that one too. Yes, 2 fingers and then under
the eyes, so right on the bone. OK, right there.
(25:25):
So align with your pupil and youcan use the two fingers too.
And actually, this is where the stomach Meridian starts.
So whenever you're feeling anxious, scared, nervous, this
is a great point. That's kind of cool, yeah.
OK. And then?
(25:47):
Anxious and nervousness. It's tied to the stomach that is
so cool. And then under the nose.
OK. Yeah.
And then the next point, it's under the mouth by the chin
where the chin that. Little dimple area between the
chin. That little dimple area, yeah.
(26:13):
And then we move to the collarbone point.
So the way to find that it's find your collarbones and see
how you have like this little hole here.
So it's right below that in the in like the tender area.
And. Up there and this is connected
to the kidneys. So it's the yeah.
(26:36):
Also, you whenever you feel anxious, your breath is
constricted, you feel that nervousness.
You can always stop here and take deep breath.
It will help you regulate your your breath.
It will help you just feel more grounded.
(26:56):
Oh, OK. Yeah.
OK. And then the last point for this
basic recipe, it's right under the arm, well, like.
I gotta lift my arm. OK, we'll lift the.
Arm, I'm just showing you. So important, it's right, An
easy way to remember it's below the broad line.
OK, we. Can do one side or we can hug
(27:19):
ourselves. I like hugging myself so right
below the so it's like on the side on top of the rib if I'm
feeling where I'm at, just underthe bra strap.
Yes, right, the bra. Strap.
And then what is this connected to?
This is connected to many things.
It's, it brings you a sense of peace, a sense of relaxation,
(27:42):
not necessarily a particular organ because there are other
like energy centers. And so not a particular one like
for example, the stomach or likethe, this is the bladder
Meridian, the gallbladder. So yes, like, but there is one
(28:03):
more that is not included in thebasic recipe, but I like to use
it. It's under the chest right here.
And this is connected to the, the liver.
So it's great for detoxing not only the physical toxins, but
the emotional toxins. So whenever you're feeling
angry, you're feeling rage and very frustrated, this is a great
(28:28):
point to tap on that's. And is, I feel like that's
probably like underneath the brafor women, just kind of a little
bit down, like the like just at the start of the rib cage where
you kind of start moving in. OK, Correct.
You know, the beautiful thing about being a woman is that we
can tell you touch points based on where your bra is at.
So I think that's one of the cool pieces around this
(28:50):
conversation. I love it.
Hey, we have to know our touch points.
Of course. Yeah, So, OK, thank you for
doing that with me because I, I think you've really explained
it. Even for those that are
listening, you're probably goingto want to go find the video
now. So whether you're coming and
(29:11):
watching this on the on your favorite podcast streaming
platform where you're heading over to YouTube, you definitely
want to see Elisa do this again,because it was it's really, I
think a lot of times we hear it,but to see you actually kind of
just talk about it a little bit.And I know there's so much like,
listen, ladies, she gave you like a tip of the iceberg,
(29:32):
right? There's so much more belief
beneath that. But I think in this sense, it's
just, you know, it's getting into it because your nervous
system is a big part of that, right?
So healing, especially for your journey has been around just
self regulating your nervous system.
So how does the nervous system, I know we touched him on it, but
(29:53):
what do you know about how it itplays into burnout?
So is the nervous system really tied to how we experience
burnout? Your eyes just got really big.
So I'm going to say yes. Totally, yes, because it's like
it's it's imagine alarm, fire alarm always on.
So that's pretty much what's happening when you are in this,
(30:14):
you know, fire or flight response and freeze fun.
You know, there are other piecesof it.
And so if we learn to regulate our nervous system, to let it
know that there is no threat andthat we are safe, then of course
we will experience many other benefits that go along with it.
(30:38):
And, and again, it's not, there is nothing wrong with you and
your nervous system. It's just that the nervous
system is doing its job, that it's protecting you and keeping
you safe. So that's why it's acting this
way because it sense that there is some kind of danger.
And so we have to retrain it andlet them know, let it know no,
(30:59):
we're not in danger. And again, sometimes we can be
sitting down here and just thinking about something bad
that could happen to us, and it's like we are living it
because this the nervous system doesn't differentiate between
what's real or imaginary. Yeah, I can't.
(31:22):
I'm like right now, as you say that, I'm thinking of my mother.
So I just got a call from her today.
She called me up and said I was in the emergency room.
And the reason she went was because she's actually got a
muscle like a spasm, like a muscle tense because she's been
so anxious. And we actually talked a little
bit about this. Now I'm going to have to call
her up after this episode and belike, hey, mom, you know, maybe
(31:43):
you should start tapping and just, you know, get her in that
because she's someone that moms you're listening.
You know, I love you. She does have high anxiety.
She always thinks like somethingis going to happen.
She's planning 40 years into ourfuture instead of being right
here. So I love what you're sharing
because it's a really a way to presence yourself right now in
(32:04):
this moment. Get, you know, look at the space
you're in. Are you really in danger?
Is something really going on andable to self regulate, which I
think is one of the big things we don't do because as we talked
earlier in this episode, well, Ineed a pill for that and a pill
for that and a pill for that anda shot for that.
(32:24):
And you know, what else can I, how many, how many things in my,
you know, medicine cabinet do I now need to be taking for, you
know, something that potentiallyyou could self heal with?
By the way, the doctors don't want me having this conversation
with Lisa. They are like.
Don't. Say this right, but you?
(32:47):
Pharmaceutical companies, too. Yeah, the pharmaceutical
company, we don't want you talking about this like, you
know, this is all woo woo. This stuff doesn't work.
I will tell you, if we're comingup in these conversations,
there's something you need to becurious about, right?
Because Elisa didn't come on here and just find this by,
like, accident. She's been a practitioner.
(33:07):
She's learned it for herself. And I think if if women are
starting to do this, there mightbe something for you that are
listening. Try it for yourself.
Yeah. And one thing that I want to say
is that I'm not against medicineand I believe there are times
where you need to take your medication.
For sure. But what I believe is that
(33:27):
medication is not the only solution.
You have to do your work too andhelp your body heal.
Because the medication, it's it,it's there to help you with the
symptoms, a symptom, but it's not really going to go to the
root or what's going on. So if you can combine the two
(33:47):
things, that would be amazing. And one thing that really
surprised me when I asked my doctor, OK, for how long do I
have to take this medication? She's like, I don't know, as
long as you would need it. Like I have patients that have
taken it for forever and it's like she made it seem like it's
so normal. And to me that was like really
(34:10):
so normal. Like everybody now and they
takes anxiety and depression medication like, OK, but there
are all the way. There has to be.
There has to be other ways. Yeah.
And I think you point to something where we've kind of
normalized the suppression of our emotions, the suppression
(34:30):
of, you know, keeping things pushed down.
And you are. It's like putting a Band-Aid on
a gushing wound, right? It's not going to really get it
might be a temporary fix for a few few short seconds or
whatever days, whatever, but it's not getting down to the
root cause of what really is going on.
All right. So, and I think, you know, for
(34:52):
those that have listening to me and have we talked about this,
we brought on a lot of differentmodalities holistically because
there's something for you to test, there's something for you
to try. And with Elisa, you're, I know
First off, she's done the work herself, right?
She's learned this, she shared with us, right?
You've seen it in action, you'vemaybe tested it on yourself.
(35:16):
And so you know, what's interesting is that you, you
actually have like 5 techniques that women can do to de stress
while they're on the go. So like, I know you're all
sitting in your office, you're all super busy, you're all high
achievers. So let's talk about this gift
you're giving to our audience that they can just download and
then start practicing this themselves.
(35:37):
OK, so for the next 5 days when you once you download the the
program you will receive on the first day you will receive a
video of how to tap. So you don't have to worry if
you don't, you know, if you don't really got it.
I there is a actual PDF where you can see all the points and
(35:59):
like the, the recipe of how to do it.
And then you have a video of me doing it with you.
So that's the first one. And then there are there second
day I show you more points that you can tap that are discreet.
So in case you're in a meeting or somewhere where you can't
just be really tapping, you can still do it.
(36:20):
And some other techniques to that you can use to help you
regulate that are fast, easy to do.
And yeah, that's, I think it's agood way to start.
And you don't have to start big.The important thing is that
you're consistent and you createa habit and you do it as many
(36:42):
times as you can during the day.OK, so it is something that you
kind of do throughout your day, not just once or like not just
once a day, but you can be usingthis technique to self regulate.
And why would you want to do this throughout your day?
Like don't and once I do it once, don't I just self
regulate? Aren't I good for the next 6
hours? I think it's just because we are
(37:05):
exposed to so much nowadays withthe news, with our culture, you
know, that it's always on a go, go, go.
We're always like, you know, our, our schedule, it's packed.
Our time is like we wish we had more hours in the day.
So I mean, it's important also to look at that, but at the same
(37:28):
time, why not regulate yourself during the day and take this
like micro moments. So at the end of the day, it
doesn't take you longer to unwind and to like, you know,
relax because you've been like going 1000 mph for so long that
(37:50):
it's, it takes longer for your nervous system to finally say,
OK, now I can relax. Yeah.
And the and the longer you wait for that relaxation, the the
longer it's going to take to relax.
Exactly. Right.
So it's interesting because I did have a conversation earlier
this week with a lady that does a lot.
It's so it's like it's almost like a stress, you know, it's
(38:11):
going after stress, burnout, those types of things.
And I don't know if you know this, but the men, when the
stress hormone is released, sitsin the male body for 9 hours
before that gets let go right now for women, what do you think
it is for women when they have astress release?
How long do you think it sits inour body?
It's probably the double. 24 hours.
(38:35):
It's double plus what the men experience, right?
It's almost three times. Yeah, it's almost three times,
right, 24 hours. So you gotta remember, as women,
we stress out about a lot of things.
We stress out about the laundry.We stress out about the the food
we're making for dinner. How many of you guys have
thought about dinner and it stresses you out?
Then you're making all the choices at work, right?
(38:56):
And you're getting stressed during that.
So these are all things that Elisa has pointed to that
trigger your nervous system. So you can either sit in that
space or she's just shared with you, which I would recommend
diving deeper into some of these, the toppings that can
help you regulate this and minimize that time that you're
(39:17):
in there, if not prevent you from going into those stress
moments, which will save you hours of recovery, if not days
of recovery. And the other thing that I'd
like to point out is that there has been a lot of research on
this technique and actually theyhave tested people that actually
they had. One of the study was three
(39:38):
groups of people. One, they were just doing
regular talk therapy. The other they just were reading
magazine and the other group were doing, they were doing
tapping. The group that was doing
tapping, they tested their cortisol levels by their saliva
and they saw a drop of 43% in their cortisol by just doing one
(40:03):
hour of tapping. The people who were in top
therapy was probably like if I remember correctly, like 14%
decrease or or even lower. I think talking would stretch me
out even more so. Yeah, me too.
And the people looking at the magazine store, it was something
like very minimal. It didn't really change that
(40:25):
much. So just to, and they recreated
the, the, the, they did the, thestarting different settings and,
and it's still gave very high percentage of the, the, the, how
much the cortisol lower and to the point that the researchers
were like, no, no, we need to sample this again because there
(40:47):
must be something wrong. We didn't take the sample
correctly. So it's always interesting every
time I go back to the study and read it because it's funny and
and it's, you know, it's so simple and, and if it gives you
that type type of benefits, why not, you know?
So as you've designed your business, we've got a few more
(41:08):
minutes here. So you've created this process,
you're coaching people around this.
What has this been an easy business for you to get started?
Has it been there? There been some a little bit of
Rd. bumps along the way because I know as women it's like we get
into this, we wanted to help more women.
So has the journey of building this business like what's that
been like for you? It's been a journey.
(41:31):
It's been a journey because it'sbeen learning how to be, first
of all, a business owner. It's something that doesn't
really run in my family. I'm the first one.
My family has always been in corporate jobs, traditional
jobs, yeah, professionals. But of course at the beginning
was like you're doing what and you're having your own business
(41:53):
and you're doing like therapy work.
But no, no it's not really therapy work because I'm not a
licensed therapist and a technique that is not that known
Like if you said you know other things like I think people know
more yoga than than EFT. Adaptation, things like that.
Yeah, so. It's been.
(42:13):
In that regards, it's been an interesting journey educating
people, talking to to a lot of people, networking, putting
myself out there. So it's not only like, oh, now I
know this cool technique and I get to practice it.
It's like, OK, how can I put it out there for people to try and
(42:41):
trust this? So that's mean.
I think probably I don't, I wouldn't say the challenge, but
it's been a learning curve and experience for me.
And it it more than the technique.
I think the message is it's yourbody who's really doing this for
you. But we always need something to
(43:01):
in a way, help us prove, oh, this is what helped me.
But it's the intelligence of thebody is so, so wise that, yeah,
I, I think it's trust in that and that we have a lot of our
own answers. Yeah.
What was some of the in learningto put together your pricing
(43:22):
package to like to coach this and stuff like that, What were
some of your concerns? What were some of the things
that you kind of learned and howto price your packages for
offering your service? Well, I'm still learning.
I see a woman. OK, perfect.
OK. Learning I, I do have private
sessions and at the beginning I,I decided that I didn't want to
(43:46):
do just one session because I need that commitment from, from
the client to at least commit tofour sessions to see what can
happen in those four sessions and see their progress.
So that was like the first thingthat I, I decided to do and also
(44:07):
based on, on the advice of my mentor and what I've seen out
there. So working in packages has
really worked for me and my client just to see that level
and also to commit to, to, to their work.
And for, for corporate, it's different because it's based on
(44:30):
their Wellness programs and whatthey want to bring in.
That's something that I would like to get more of.
And that's one of my goals for this year and next year to, to
get more of those opportunities.I, I first wanted to really get
involved with one on ones to see, you know, make sure that I,
(44:53):
I got this out there tested and trusted.
And now, yeah, I think I'm bringing it to corporate.
I, I, I would love to see this as part of, again, daily
practices, not only Wellness programs, but really part of
their strategy. And it doesn't matter if you're
(45:16):
a small corporation. I mean, if you are a small
business, I think everybody deserves to have these type of
practices and everybody should, yeah, have access to them.
Yeah, because it really is something that in the overall
health of being a, a being a body on this planet as something
(45:36):
that, you know, male or female, that this is something that the
self regulating the self responsibility, right.
Because this wasn't done to you.And I think that's one of the
things we look at is though thiswas done to me.
My business did this to me, my job did this to me.
But it's also part of that is your reaction to what's being or
(45:57):
your outside resources. So I think when you talk about
self regulation, that's taking responsibility for how you're
reacting or what's coming up foryou.
And so when you do the tapping and you get that incorporated
and then you're starting to own your feelings and you're
starting to find out how that feels in your body.
And I think that's one of the most interesting things is as we
(46:17):
go through this and especially bring it into the corporate
world where they're so driven bynumbers in the bottom line then
yet at the same time, it's people that are helping that
become your reality. So how are you taking care of
the people in your organization and giving them the word?
I don't think is coping mechanisms, but techniques and
(46:38):
tools that can help them, you know, improve their overall life
and quality because then they become better and more aware of
their business. They're what they're what
they're putting into the world. Exactly.
Yeah. I think the corporate, so
packaging you've learned to do in bundles.
Is there anything else that you wish you'd kind of learned ahead
(47:00):
of time or some things you're still learning in this journey
about building your own business?
Marketing has been a big one forme and I've been learning by
myself. Well, of course I, I, I've
learned from others, not only bymyself, but that's been a big
one to learn how to position myself out there, how to prepare
(47:25):
my message. What is it that I really want
people to know about me and whatI do and not necessarily all
about me, but how can this practice this, this different
techniques can support them? And how are they different from
other practices that may be available?
(47:46):
And it's, it's, it's always, always learning how to do it
better, better and better. And and also understanding the
type of client that I want to attract and really knowing that
client from A-Z. Yeah, I think there is something
when you can in your marketing message, and this is for all of
(48:10):
our listeners here. When you speak to one person,
I've said this throughout many years of coaching, I said when
you speak to one person, you speak to many.
When you speak to many, you speak to no one because it just
gets lost. So really, when you're looking
at who do I want to serve? Who's my, who is it the, the,
what type of the energy do you want to be surrounded by?
Because I don't think it's so much the person or the
(48:31):
demographic or an age group, butwho's the energy you want to
work with? Do you want to, you know, work
with somebody that is, you know,super open to what you have to
offer or offer? Or do you, you do you want to
work with something that you've got to convince that this works
for you, right? Which is a harder sell overall
because then you're trying to change somebody's mindset when I
(48:53):
think it's easier to slip into the story or the belief of where
they're already at. So it's not so much of trying to
align with somebody else. The question is, who do you want
to work with? Somebody that's open to this
idea, Some of that might have heard about it in whispers and
things like that. That is, you know, looking for
something different. I think that starts kind of
(49:14):
playing into your marketing because you'll start speaking to
that person. You'll actually create content
speaking to a individual becauseyou feel that's the energetic of
the person you want to be around.
Exactly. Something to think about.
All right, well, I love this. So for those of you that are
listening in the audience, thereare many moments that Elisa was
(49:36):
like, holy crap, she said something.
Did she really say that? Absolutely.
There were some great Nuggets inhere that I want you to go back
and just listen to this again. Make sure you grab the download
in the show notes. Follow her.
Her social media is going to be in there too.
So connect with her, follow her,see what she where she's at and
you know, if she makes sense andsomebody reach out, reach out to
(49:59):
her, right. That's part of The thing is you
just never know who you who you need to connect with.
And I'm almost positive there's somebody that's listening right
now that says, I'm curious, can I learn some more?
So thank you so much for just being here, being so open, so
transparent, so lit up around this conversation and really
(50:20):
addressing the key elements of burnout, some of the hidden
triggers, things that we can be aware of to help us, you know,
notice when burnout is going to be happening.
And then giving us some, even some basic techniques that we
can start today to help regulateour nervous system.
So you have been incredible on today's episode of Did she
really Say That? So thank you for being a guest
(50:41):
with us. Thank you so much, Katrina, for
this opportunity and for this space.
I really love talking to you andyour audience.
Right, we'll see you again and everybody for that's listening.
And if you've got value from this, give us a comment, give us
a five star rating, and we'll see you on the next episode.
Welcome to Did she just really say that the podcast episode
that's changing the way we talk about business as women, because
let's be honest, we as women arechanging and and shifting what
we've been taught around the business world, how it's
affecting us both mentally and physically, the stress we're
(00:22):
enduring in this process. So this episode is really for
all my women out there that haveexperienced burnout, maybe are
going through it themselves or don't even know what burnout
actually looks like. So I'm excited because we're
having this amazing conversationtoday with Elisa.
Is it Elisa? That's correct.
So I'm making sure I'm just pronouncing everyone's name
(00:43):
right. So this is gonna be talking to
us today about this conversation.
It's gonna be really interesting.
So I want you to listen in and just, you know, join this
journey with us, right? So Elisa empowers professional
professionals and entrepreneurial women to
overcome burnout, stress, anxiety, and overwhelm by
addressing the root cause of their challenges.
(01:03):
And this is something that often, as I talk with women, we
ignore. We kind of suppress this.
Now what makes Elisa really interesting is she has a
background in human resources inthe corporate world and during
her personal journey, she struggled with burnout.
She had high anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia.
Is this ringing any bells for any of my women out there?
(01:26):
So really right now her mission as she's left the corporate
world and really brought her experience into the
entrepreneurial and professionalworld is to guide women towards
emotional freedom and and give them support as they reclaim
your sense of purpose. Women, this is something we
really need in our lives. So I love this because her
unique approach as a human resource and her experience
(01:48):
around that really looks at the whole person.
So human resource people are pretty intuitive on their own.
And her goal is to really help clients and uncover those root
issues, right? So if you find that you're
exhausted, if you find that things are deteriorating your
health, you really want to talk to Lisa because this is what
(02:12):
she's going to share with us. And this is this gives you
somebody to go talk to, right? She has an extensive background
in academia. She's got a bachelor's of
science, a master's degree. You can read about all this
inside the show notes of what she's done.
She's got certifications. She does energy psychology
practitioner. She's a professional life
(02:32):
success coach. She's a yoga instructor.
She is absolute freaking lutely amazing and I'm so excited that
we're having this conversation on.
Did she really say that? Because we don't talk about
burnout, we just let it go. So welcome to this episode and
(02:53):
thank you so much for being hereand then having this
conversation with me and our audience here today.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Katrina.
It's my pleasure to be here withyou and your audience.
So let's talk about you're kind of your journey, let's get a
little bit of sense and I know Iread a little bit about this,
but talk to me about that whole burnout and what that was like
for you in that corporate space.Well, first of all, I didn't
(03:17):
know I had burned out. I found out when I was already
going through probably the end of the stage of burned out
because they're actually 5 stages you go through according
to research and the information that it's out there.
So that's one thing that sometimes we don't even know.
(03:38):
And it's not necessarily just feeling exhausted.
There can be any other symptoms that we ignore and it's
important to detect them early on so they don't become chronic.
So for me, I was highly stressed.
I always had this pressure in mychest.
(04:01):
Sometimes I feel like maybe there is something wrong with my
heart. I need to get checked.
And I would go to a doctor and everything would come out
normal. All my blood work, all my
physical test, everything was normal.
But I still felt short shortnessof breath, like palpitations,
(04:22):
and I couldn't really relax. And it got worse and worse until
I couldn't really have a full night's sleep.
And then I started getting panicattacks.
And every time I would go to a doctor it would be the same
story. Your blood work, it's normal.
You are OK. So.
(04:44):
'Cause you're like, I'm not, OK,Something is going on and I
don't know. And honestly, Lisa, what it's
interesting is as I continue andyou as women are listening to
this podcast, you're gonna hear this as a reoccurring theme with
a lot of women. Like they all go through this
high anxiety, stress, burnout. And I think that's why this
(05:04):
conversation is so important because getting this awareness
that women are burning out and we are burning out faster than
the men. The men do experience burnout,
but there is a faster rate of burnout for women than really at
any other time. And I think it's it's a blend of
a lot of different things you'regoing to hear in this entire
(05:26):
season for Season 3 on did she really say that?
You're going to hear a lot of different ways that this shows
up. So, yeah, keep talking about
this. So you're you're burned out,
you're going through this. Doctors are saying everything's
OK What happens? Next and then what's happening
is I'm being prescribed, I'm being prescribed medication for
(05:46):
anxiety, for depression and justthat.
And that's not really helping. And at the same time, I'm not
really accepting the medication and like, I don't really want to
take this, OK, I'm going to giveit a try.
But every time I would go, my symptoms continue to be the same
(06:07):
or worse. So I didn't really see progress.
And so it was like, I was in this like vicious kind of loop
where I wasn't going anywhere. And it was very frustrating
because I, I, I felt like I was alone in this whole journey
(06:27):
until one day when I went to my specialist, she just told me,
like, I don't know what else to try with you.
Then again, increase your medication.
And I remember being in the parking lot, so disappointed, so
sad, so frustrated and just thinking, OK, is this like a
(06:50):
life sentence? Am I going to be on medication
and just increasing my dosage and that's it?
And so at that point, it was like a decision that I had to
make. OK, I have to do something about
it. I'm not going to depend only on
medication. I have.
I feel like this is deeper. It's deeper work, something that
(07:13):
I have to probably do. I don't know how, but that's
when I started doing more research.
It was a long journey trying to look for different alternatives.
I try a lot of different things until finally I think I found
(07:34):
what resonated with me and what really resonated were were
practices that help me regulate my nervous system.
So I started meditation, I started with yoga, I started
started with Reiki, things like that little by little.
And I would just think like I would dream, when would I feel
(07:57):
like normal again? When will that day come?
And honestly, that day didn't come like I dreamt of that day
because it's never going to be the same.
And that's one thing that I got to accept.
Not that things got worse, actually things got even better
(08:20):
than before. And so that was interesting to,
to experience. And also it's a journey.
I had this like dream that just somebody would come and save me
and I will never suffer again. And it doesn't work that way.
And I think what you pointed to in this conversation so far, as
(08:42):
you know, oftentimes what we experience as women, as we're
told, we're imagining things that that's not really going on
with us. And I think in a lot of
respects, the, the medical industry itself is, it is that
it's a practice, right? So it's a medical practice.
We as women have the least amount of experience with our
complexity of our bodies of really being diagnosed.
(09:04):
So we do, we get things like anxiety medication, depression
medication, thinking that's whatwe're dealing with.
But as you've talked about, there's a root cause.
There's something else that's actually going on.
And I think as women, I love what you're sharing is that
sometimes you have to do the meditation.
It might seem like it's not something you can quiet your
(09:24):
mind around, but there's this journey of like quieting your
mind, quieting your body. And as women, we are such in a
fight or flight state so often, even in the workforce, trying to
prove ourselves, trying to get the seat at the table, trying to
do more 'cause we're still don'tfeel like we've done enough,
(09:45):
right? Like we have different status
quos between men and women stillto this day where like we could
over deliver and it still doesn't feel like we've done
enough, right? And so we're constantly striving
to do more. But that's not helping us.
It's starting to cause the physical, bodily reaction.
(10:07):
And then it's like, OK, now I got to start paying attention to
my body because something else is going on.
And you said, you know, sitting in the car, am I going to be
medicated for the rest of my life?
And that thought even to me, would scare the shit out of me,
right? So I am thank you for being so
(10:29):
transparent in this conversationbecause it, it is something I
think we as women need to be talking more about and learning
from each other and giving ourselves different, more
holistic ways to approach what we're doing.
So let's dive into some of the signs you talked about some of
the hidden signs of burnout, some things that we may not
recognize. And you were towards the end.
(10:50):
So what do we need to be aware of as women around?
What does burnout look like? What are some of those
precursors we can start looking for?
Any kind of misalignment, meaning like when you start
experiencing stomach issues, forexample, when you're started
(11:10):
getting a lot of headaches or physical tension, like always,
like having this back pain or neck pain or a lot of tightness
in your body, those are early symptoms.
Your body's talking to you. And so we sometimes ignore it
and we just take a Tylenol. Oh, no, it's just a headache.
(11:32):
I'm just tired. OK.
If you're tired, then why don't you take a break and, you know,
let your body recover? Or sometimes we are dehydrated.
We're not drinking enough water,and that's why we have a
headache. But we decide to, you know, take
a pill to help us with that. So those are the, the, the body.
(11:53):
Again, it's talking, it's talking to us.
And I think it is really important to pay to everything
that our body is telling us on adaily basis.
And so that's what I learned in my own process, listening to my
own body and not going against my body, understanding myself
(12:13):
more and more. And also during this journey, I,
I, I actually put a name to, to my own personality time.
I'm highly sensitive personality.
So before I didn't know what that was.
I heard about empath, I heard about sensitive people and I saw
(12:37):
it as something bad or like maybe weak, like, oh, you're so
sensitive, right. And, and now it makes much more
sense to me. And I don't see it as a weakness
actually. I see it as a superpower because
I got to understand what are my strengths being that way.
So and, and so I, I know that I have to work in certain ways and
(13:02):
give myself that permission. So yeah, it's, it's been a
discovery journey for sure. Is this, I mean did was part of
this? What had you like leave
corporate space and really startdesigning and building your own
business because you started listening to your body more?
In a way, but I also think I left corporate because it was
(13:24):
meant to be. I actually was forced to.
It wasn't really a decision thatI made.
It was just that my job didn't worked out at that point and I
left. I was still looking for a job,
but in that search I ended up going back to school because
there was such a good opportunity for me.
(13:45):
And I decided, you know what, this is so good that I really, I
want to bring this to the world and it will make me so happy if
I can have my own business and just do this from the outside.
Like not necessarily being in a corporate job, not that I'm
against that. And maybe in the future I go
back, I don't know. But like being able to go back
(14:07):
and bring the programs from my own place, like having that
flexibility. Yes, it's it's something that I
am enjoying right now. I mean, you're lit up about it,
like you're truly a light in this joy and thinking.
And because one thing that came up to me, as you were saying,
like if I do go back to corporate, I was like, yeah, you
(14:28):
get to bring, at least it gets to bring all of this that she's
learned into these environments.And I think that's also critical
too, right? At some point as we start
developing and Start learning about ourselves as women and
what that empathy, that sensitivity is such a superpower
like you talk about, it is such a gift from God in the universe
(14:51):
to have that and to be able to bring it into these rigid
corporate spaces. I think as as slowly it's
starting to get recognized just how important women are in these
spaces because we bring that to the the table because otherwise
we're just creating robots and it's not any fun, right?
So as a woman, did you have any like as you're making this
(15:15):
transition from your health, you're starting to get into
Reiki? Like were there any like, did
you have like, this isn't gonna work?
This is woo woo, this is silly. Like, did you have any moments
kind of like where you're babbling yourself as you're kind
of going down this more, you know, homeopathic way of taking
care of yourself? I was open.
I try many things because of that desperation at the
(15:39):
beginning. So I remember even a friend from
work, she recommended somebody she was seeing.
And this person was travelling and I wasn't going to be able to
see her like in two months. And I was so excited to see her
like two months later. But I learned also to be patient
and to start also trusting myself because I was trusting
(16:01):
more in others. I've tried a lot of things, but
if you ask me like what was the thing that really help you and
resonate? It was actually EFT tapping.
So that's one of the practices that I incorporate in my, in my
coaching. And, and it's one that it, it
(16:24):
brings a lot of the things that I've tried before and it's what
really gave me faster relief andlike really helped me go even
deeper. And to it's because it's a
combination not only of it's a somatic practice, but it also
digs into psychology. So it's very, very
(16:49):
comprehensive. It has a lot of components that
to me has worked on very, very well.
And also I've seen changes, likevery quick changes and lasting
changes to the people that I've worked with.
So yeah. Now talk to me a little bit
about tapping. For those that are listening in
(17:10):
that may have never heard of this phrase or they're still
unsure of it, maybe somebody mentioned it in passing.
Can we dive a little bit more into what is that?
What is it E? So EFT, it stands for Emotional
Freedom Techniques, and sometimes you hear technique,
but it's actually a number of different techniques that we
(17:33):
use. Actually it's I believe 48
techniques if I remember correctly.
And these techniques, well, it'svery basic when you see it
because it's actually tapping onacupressure points in the body,
mostly in the upper body. And there are nine of them that
you use in what they call the basic recipe.
(17:54):
So essentially when you tap on these pressure points, you are
sending a calm signal to the amygdala in the brain.
So you are interrupting the fight or flight response.
So just doing that and breathing, it's already a
practice that it is very, very potent.
(18:15):
I will say it's very effective. You don't even have to
incorporate words yet. But if you add words to it,
meaning how you are feeling, andyou really tell the truth about
what's going on, that allows your nervous system to trust the
process and eventually go even deeper on what's going on, like
(18:38):
even going deeper and reaching the root of the issue.
So that's what I love about thistechnique.
It's not like talk therapy whereyou just sit and talk about your
problem. In a way somehow you do, but you
are releasing whatever it's going on because it's you're
using your body to help you process what's happening behind
(19:01):
the scenes. So that's why it's like
combination of asthmatic with somatic practice with
psychology. So you're tapping it, basically.
You're literally tapping into the nervous system.
Yes, through. So you talked about the nine
points. I know that we're on, some of
you guys are going to be able tosee the video, some of you
aren't. So can you kind of walk me
through the 9 pieces like the nine, like just point it out so
(19:24):
we can kind of get a sense of dowe tap a lot?
Like is it like? No, not hard.
You can, you can. There are people that are more
sensible than other and you can just hold the point.
So for example, the first point is the side of the hand.
Is it the right hand or left hand?
Any. Hand.
Right or ladder? Yes, because these points, these
(19:46):
are Meridian points in the body.So this goes back to Chinese
medicine and they run the same way in both, both side of the
body. So it doesn't matter if you do
one side or the other. And there are some points that
you can tap on one point or the two points.
So I'll show you. The first one is the side of the
hand, and it's actually every point is connected to a organ in
(20:10):
the body. The side of the hand is.
Then hope the hand is connected to the to the Smalling testing.
So here 2. Fingers, one hold.
I'm asking for all my viewers. Is it one finger?
2 fingers, Whole hand? How do you tap?
4/4 fingers. 4 fingers, OK. Like this.
Or you can hold the point. Yes, and you just test it and
(20:35):
see how it feels for you. Some people like to put a little
bit more pressure, tap a little bit faster.
I like to play with it. If you do it slower, it's like,
OK, you're sending this message to slow down.
You are telling your nervous system, it's OK, we can slow
down, we can take it easy. Interesting.
(20:57):
OK. Here we create actually a setup
statement. So if we're using words, we're
actually here going to create a phrase, OK.
And the phrase, it's gonna have two parts.
The first part, it's telling thetruth about the problem.
So it's not affirmations. We're not in affirmations yet.
(21:17):
We'll get. There but this is what she's
gonna help you deal with later when you start working with her.
But we're we're demoing this outhere on this podcast, OK?
Yeah. And so it will look something
like this, even though I'm stressed right now or even
though I'm having this headache or this tension in my body, in
(21:38):
this moment I am breathing or inthis moment I am safe or in this
moment, I have compassion for the way I'm feeling.
Like you would have to complete it with a sentence that makes
sense to you. If you see someone like the
YouTube videos or the traditional way that they do it,
they would say something like I deeply and completely love and
(22:01):
accept myself. But sometimes that's not the
case. And that may sound like, you
know, it's like so. Yeah, because it's not talking
to, you're not having that real self conversation with yourself
because what part of what tapping is, my understanding is
it's self regulating for you. So it's whatever your body's
feeling, whatever is coming up for you.
(22:22):
So you're addressing that with your own body, not necessarily
what the I feel great in love and I'm so excited about myself
kind of a thing, yes. You can say, and this is how I'm
feeling right now. It sucks, you know.
So tell the truth. That's really what you're being
told. That's the first thing and it's
(22:43):
exposing. So this is exposed exposure
therapy. So that's why it's telling the
truth. And then the cognitive part of
it, it's like some kind of reassuring yourself of you know
where you're at without sugar coating things, without having
to be. You don't have to be positive or
to like, you know to out there. All right.
(23:07):
Interesting, because I switched hands over here.
For those that aren't watching this, I actually just switched
hands and I got a totally different sensation through my
body just by tapping over here. I was like, oh, well, that's
that's a different feeling. So I could see.
Yeah, that's interesting. And the other interesting thing
is that if you think about the small intestine, the function of
it is to separate your nutrientsor whatever serves you, it will
(23:34):
be sent to your bloodstream. And whatever doesn't serve you,
it will be sent for elimination.So when you're doing this in an
emotional, energetic way, that'swhat you're doing.
You are, you know, you have. OK, you let's see, let's say you
ate something and this is where you're at.
You're not feeling very well. OK, now let's just absorb what's
(23:57):
serving me and letting go what doesn't.
OK, I like that. So the side of the hand where
else? Let's do like 2 more.
Then I'll run you through the points quickly because the other
points it's just you, you repeatthe reminder phrases.
So it would be something like distress and distress or
(24:21):
whatever it's going on. You talk about it.
So the the second point is the crown of the head.
So actually the way you find it is you put your thumb on your
ears and then you ring your middle finger at the top and
that's where the point is. So it's that soft area where you
were when you were a baby. So right there.
(24:42):
OK, so that's right. That's where you're tapping
because I never figured where you could tap on your head
everyone was because like everyone's hand size and head is
differently. OK.
And again, 4 fingers. Yes, 4 fingers.
Then the the the the next point is the eyebrow point.
So right where the eyebrow beginand you can 2 fingers.
(25:03):
Two fingers. Yeah.
And then the next point, it's right by the side of the eyes,
not by the temple, but right next to the eyes.
OK. Make sure you don't poke your
eye, OK? And we're doing a two finger tap
on that one too. Yes, 2 fingers and then under
the eyes, so right on the bone. OK, right there.
(25:25):
So align with your pupil and youcan use the two fingers too.
And actually, this is where the stomach Meridian starts.
So whenever you're feeling anxious, scared, nervous, this
is a great point. That's kind of cool, yeah.
OK. And then?
(25:47):
Anxious and nervousness. It's tied to the stomach that is
so cool. And then under the nose.
OK. Yeah.
And then the next point, it's under the mouth by the chin
where the chin that. Little dimple area between the
chin. That little dimple area, yeah.
(26:13):
And then we move to the collarbone point.
So the way to find that it's find your collarbones and see
how you have like this little hole here.
So it's right below that in the in like the tender area.
And. Up there and this is connected
to the kidneys. So it's the yeah.
(26:36):
Also, you whenever you feel anxious, your breath is
constricted, you feel that nervousness.
You can always stop here and take deep breath.
It will help you regulate your your breath.
It will help you just feel more grounded.
(26:56):
Oh, OK. Yeah.
OK. And then the last point for this
basic recipe, it's right under the arm, well, like.
I gotta lift my arm. OK, we'll lift the.
Arm, I'm just showing you. So important, it's right, An
easy way to remember it's below the broad line.
OK, we. Can do one side or we can hug
(27:19):
ourselves. I like hugging myself so right
below the so it's like on the side on top of the rib if I'm
feeling where I'm at, just underthe bra strap.
Yes, right, the bra. Strap.
And then what is this connected to?
This is connected to many things.
It's, it brings you a sense of peace, a sense of relaxation,
(27:42):
not necessarily a particular organ because there are other
like energy centers. And so not a particular one like
for example, the stomach or likethe, this is the bladder
Meridian, the gallbladder. So yes, like, but there is one
(28:03):
more that is not included in thebasic recipe, but I like to use
it. It's under the chest right here.
And this is connected to the, the liver.
So it's great for detoxing not only the physical toxins, but
the emotional toxins. So whenever you're feeling
angry, you're feeling rage and very frustrated, this is a great
(28:28):
point to tap on that's. And is, I feel like that's
probably like underneath the brafor women, just kind of a little
bit down, like the like just at the start of the rib cage where
you kind of start moving in. OK, Correct.
You know, the beautiful thing about being a woman is that we
can tell you touch points based on where your bra is at.
So I think that's one of the cool pieces around this
(28:50):
conversation. I love it.
Hey, we have to know our touch points.
Of course. Yeah, So, OK, thank you for
doing that with me because I, I think you've really explained
it. Even for those that are
listening, you're probably goingto want to go find the video
now. So whether you're coming and
(29:11):
watching this on the on your favorite podcast streaming
platform where you're heading over to YouTube, you definitely
want to see Elisa do this again,because it was it's really, I
think a lot of times we hear it,but to see you actually kind of
just talk about it a little bit.And I know there's so much like,
listen, ladies, she gave you like a tip of the iceberg,
(29:32):
right? There's so much more belief
beneath that. But I think in this sense, it's
just, you know, it's getting into it because your nervous
system is a big part of that, right?
So healing, especially for your journey has been around just
self regulating your nervous system.
So how does the nervous system, I know we touched him on it, but
(29:53):
what do you know about how it itplays into burnout?
So is the nervous system really tied to how we experience
burnout? Your eyes just got really big.
So I'm going to say yes. Totally, yes, because it's like
it's it's imagine alarm, fire alarm always on.
So that's pretty much what's happening when you are in this,
(30:14):
you know, fire or flight response and freeze fun.
You know, there are other piecesof it.
And so if we learn to regulate our nervous system, to let it
know that there is no threat andthat we are safe, then of course
we will experience many other benefits that go along with it.
(30:38):
And, and again, it's not, there is nothing wrong with you and
your nervous system. It's just that the nervous
system is doing its job, that it's protecting you and keeping
you safe. So that's why it's acting this
way because it sense that there is some kind of danger.
And so we have to retrain it andlet them know, let it know no,
(30:59):
we're not in danger. And again, sometimes we can be
sitting down here and just thinking about something bad
that could happen to us, and it's like we are living it
because this the nervous system doesn't differentiate between
what's real or imaginary. Yeah, I can't.
(31:22):
I'm like right now, as you say that, I'm thinking of my mother.
So I just got a call from her today.
She called me up and said I was in the emergency room.
And the reason she went was because she's actually got a
muscle like a spasm, like a muscle tense because she's been
so anxious. And we actually talked a little
bit about this. Now I'm going to have to call
her up after this episode and belike, hey, mom, you know, maybe
(31:43):
you should start tapping and just, you know, get her in that
because she's someone that moms you're listening.
You know, I love you. She does have high anxiety.
She always thinks like somethingis going to happen.
She's planning 40 years into ourfuture instead of being right
here. So I love what you're sharing
because it's a really a way to presence yourself right now in
(32:04):
this moment. Get, you know, look at the space
you're in. Are you really in danger?
Is something really going on andable to self regulate, which I
think is one of the big things we don't do because as we talked
earlier in this episode, well, Ineed a pill for that and a pill
for that and a pill for that anda shot for that.
(32:24):
And you know, what else can I, how many, how many things in my,
you know, medicine cabinet do I now need to be taking for, you
know, something that potentiallyyou could self heal with?
By the way, the doctors don't want me having this conversation
with Lisa. They are like.
Don't. Say this right, but you?
(32:47):
Pharmaceutical companies, too. Yeah, the pharmaceutical
company, we don't want you talking about this like, you
know, this is all woo woo. This stuff doesn't work.
I will tell you, if we're comingup in these conversations,
there's something you need to becurious about, right?
Because Elisa didn't come on here and just find this by,
like, accident. She's been a practitioner.
(33:07):
She's learned it for herself. And I think if if women are
starting to do this, there mightbe something for you that are
listening. Try it for yourself.
Yeah. And one thing that I want to say
is that I'm not against medicineand I believe there are times
where you need to take your medication.
For sure. But what I believe is that
(33:27):
medication is not the only solution.
You have to do your work too andhelp your body heal.
Because the medication, it's it,it's there to help you with the
symptoms, a symptom, but it's not really going to go to the
root or what's going on. So if you can combine the two
(33:47):
things, that would be amazing. And one thing that really
surprised me when I asked my doctor, OK, for how long do I
have to take this medication? She's like, I don't know, as
long as you would need it. Like I have patients that have
taken it for forever and it's like she made it seem like it's
so normal. And to me that was like really
(34:10):
so normal. Like everybody now and they
takes anxiety and depression medication like, OK, but there
are all the way. There has to be.
There has to be other ways. Yeah.
And I think you point to something where we've kind of
normalized the suppression of our emotions, the suppression
(34:30):
of, you know, keeping things pushed down.
And you are. It's like putting a Band-Aid on
a gushing wound, right? It's not going to really get it
might be a temporary fix for a few few short seconds or
whatever days, whatever, but it's not getting down to the
root cause of what really is going on.
All right. So, and I think, you know, for
(34:52):
those that have listening to me and have we talked about this,
we brought on a lot of differentmodalities holistically because
there's something for you to test, there's something for you
to try. And with Elisa, you're, I know
First off, she's done the work herself, right?
She's learned this, she shared with us, right?
You've seen it in action, you'vemaybe tested it on yourself.
(35:16):
And so you know, what's interesting is that you, you
actually have like 5 techniques that women can do to de stress
while they're on the go. So like, I know you're all
sitting in your office, you're all super busy, you're all high
achievers. So let's talk about this gift
you're giving to our audience that they can just download and
then start practicing this themselves.
(35:37):
OK, so for the next 5 days when you once you download the the
program you will receive on the first day you will receive a
video of how to tap. So you don't have to worry if
you don't, you know, if you don't really got it.
I there is a actual PDF where you can see all the points and
(35:59):
like the, the recipe of how to do it.
And then you have a video of me doing it with you.
So that's the first one. And then there are there second
day I show you more points that you can tap that are discreet.
So in case you're in a meeting or somewhere where you can't
just be really tapping, you can still do it.
(36:20):
And some other techniques to that you can use to help you
regulate that are fast, easy to do.
And yeah, that's, I think it's agood way to start.
And you don't have to start big.The important thing is that
you're consistent and you createa habit and you do it as many
(36:42):
times as you can during the day.OK, so it is something that you
kind of do throughout your day, not just once or like not just
once a day, but you can be usingthis technique to self regulate.
And why would you want to do this throughout your day?
Like don't and once I do it once, don't I just self
regulate? Aren't I good for the next 6
hours? I think it's just because we are
(37:05):
exposed to so much nowadays withthe news, with our culture, you
know, that it's always on a go, go, go.
We're always like, you know, our, our schedule, it's packed.
Our time is like we wish we had more hours in the day.
So I mean, it's important also to look at that, but at the same
(37:28):
time, why not regulate yourself during the day and take this
like micro moments. So at the end of the day, it
doesn't take you longer to unwind and to like, you know,
relax because you've been like going 1000 mph for so long that
(37:50):
it's, it takes longer for your nervous system to finally say,
OK, now I can relax. Yeah.
And the and the longer you wait for that relaxation, the the
longer it's going to take to relax.
Exactly. Right.
So it's interesting because I did have a conversation earlier
this week with a lady that does a lot.
It's so it's like it's almost like a stress, you know, it's
(38:11):
going after stress, burnout, those types of things.
And I don't know if you know this, but the men, when the
stress hormone is released, sitsin the male body for 9 hours
before that gets let go right now for women, what do you think
it is for women when they have astress release?
How long do you think it sits inour body?
It's probably the double. 24 hours.
(38:35):
It's double plus what the men experience, right?
It's almost three times. Yeah, it's almost three times,
right, 24 hours. So you gotta remember, as women,
we stress out about a lot of things.
We stress out about the laundry.We stress out about the the food
we're making for dinner. How many of you guys have
thought about dinner and it stresses you out?
Then you're making all the choices at work, right?
(38:56):
And you're getting stressed during that.
So these are all things that Elisa has pointed to that
trigger your nervous system. So you can either sit in that
space or she's just shared with you, which I would recommend
diving deeper into some of these, the toppings that can
help you regulate this and minimize that time that you're
(39:17):
in there, if not prevent you from going into those stress
moments, which will save you hours of recovery, if not days
of recovery. And the other thing that I'd
like to point out is that there has been a lot of research on
this technique and actually theyhave tested people that actually
they had. One of the study was three
(39:38):
groups of people. One, they were just doing
regular talk therapy. The other they just were reading
magazine and the other group were doing, they were doing
tapping. The group that was doing
tapping, they tested their cortisol levels by their saliva
and they saw a drop of 43% in their cortisol by just doing one
(40:03):
hour of tapping. The people who were in top
therapy was probably like if I remember correctly, like 14%
decrease or or even lower. I think talking would stretch me
out even more so. Yeah, me too.
And the people looking at the magazine store, it was something
like very minimal. It didn't really change that
(40:25):
much. So just to, and they recreated
the, the, the, they did the, thestarting different settings and,
and it's still gave very high percentage of the, the, the, how
much the cortisol lower and to the point that the researchers
were like, no, no, we need to sample this again because there
(40:47):
must be something wrong. We didn't take the sample
correctly. So it's always interesting every
time I go back to the study and read it because it's funny and
and it's, you know, it's so simple and, and if it gives you
that type type of benefits, why not, you know?
So as you've designed your business, we've got a few more
(41:08):
minutes here. So you've created this process,
you're coaching people around this.
What has this been an easy business for you to get started?
Has it been there? There been some a little bit of
Rd. bumps along the way because I know as women it's like we get
into this, we wanted to help more women.
So has the journey of building this business like what's that
been like for you? It's been a journey.
(41:31):
It's been a journey because it'sbeen learning how to be, first
of all, a business owner. It's something that doesn't
really run in my family. I'm the first one.
My family has always been in corporate jobs, traditional
jobs, yeah, professionals. But of course at the beginning
was like you're doing what and you're having your own business
(41:53):
and you're doing like therapy work.
But no, no it's not really therapy work because I'm not a
licensed therapist and a technique that is not that known
Like if you said you know other things like I think people know
more yoga than than EFT. Adaptation, things like that.
Yeah, so. It's been.
(42:13):
In that regards, it's been an interesting journey educating
people, talking to to a lot of people, networking, putting
myself out there. So it's not only like, oh, now I
know this cool technique and I get to practice it.
It's like, OK, how can I put it out there for people to try and
(42:41):
trust this? So that's mean.
I think probably I don't, I wouldn't say the challenge, but
it's been a learning curve and experience for me.
And it it more than the technique.
I think the message is it's yourbody who's really doing this for
you. But we always need something to
(43:01):
in a way, help us prove, oh, this is what helped me.
But it's the intelligence of thebody is so, so wise that, yeah,
I, I think it's trust in that and that we have a lot of our
own answers. Yeah.
What was some of the in learningto put together your pricing
(43:22):
package to like to coach this and stuff like that, What were
some of your concerns? What were some of the things
that you kind of learned and howto price your packages for
offering your service? Well, I'm still learning.
I see a woman. OK, perfect.
OK. Learning I, I do have private
sessions and at the beginning I,I decided that I didn't want to
(43:46):
do just one session because I need that commitment from, from
the client to at least commit tofour sessions to see what can
happen in those four sessions and see their progress.
So that was like the first thingthat I, I decided to do and also
(44:07):
based on, on the advice of my mentor and what I've seen out
there. So working in packages has
really worked for me and my client just to see that level
and also to commit to, to, to their work.
And for, for corporate, it's different because it's based on
(44:30):
their Wellness programs and whatthey want to bring in.
That's something that I would like to get more of.
And that's one of my goals for this year and next year to, to
get more of those opportunities.I, I first wanted to really get
involved with one on ones to see, you know, make sure that I,
(44:53):
I got this out there tested and trusted.
And now, yeah, I think I'm bringing it to corporate.
I, I, I would love to see this as part of, again, daily
practices, not only Wellness programs, but really part of
their strategy. And it doesn't matter if you're
(45:16):
a small corporation. I mean, if you are a small
business, I think everybody deserves to have these type of
practices and everybody should, yeah, have access to them.
Yeah, because it really is something that in the overall
health of being a, a being a body on this planet as something
(45:36):
that, you know, male or female, that this is something that the
self regulating the self responsibility, right.
Because this wasn't done to you.And I think that's one of the
things we look at is though thiswas done to me.
My business did this to me, my job did this to me.
But it's also part of that is your reaction to what's being or
(45:57):
your outside resources. So I think when you talk about
self regulation, that's taking responsibility for how you're
reacting or what's coming up foryou.
And so when you do the tapping and you get that incorporated
and then you're starting to own your feelings and you're
starting to find out how that feels in your body.
And I think that's one of the most interesting things is as we
(46:17):
go through this and especially bring it into the corporate
world where they're so driven bynumbers in the bottom line then
yet at the same time, it's people that are helping that
become your reality. So how are you taking care of
the people in your organization and giving them the word?
I don't think is coping mechanisms, but techniques and
(46:38):
tools that can help them, you know, improve their overall life
and quality because then they become better and more aware of
their business. They're what they're what
they're putting into the world. Exactly.
Yeah. I think the corporate, so
packaging you've learned to do in bundles.
Is there anything else that you wish you'd kind of learned ahead
(47:00):
of time or some things you're still learning in this journey
about building your own business?
Marketing has been a big one forme and I've been learning by
myself. Well, of course I, I, I've
learned from others, not only bymyself, but that's been a big
one to learn how to position myself out there, how to prepare
(47:25):
my message. What is it that I really want
people to know about me and whatI do and not necessarily all
about me, but how can this practice this, this different
techniques can support them? And how are they different from
other practices that may be available?
(47:46):
And it's, it's, it's always, always learning how to do it
better, better and better. And and also understanding the
type of client that I want to attract and really knowing that
client from A-Z. Yeah, I think there is something
when you can in your marketing message, and this is for all of
(48:10):
our listeners here. When you speak to one person,
I've said this throughout many years of coaching, I said when
you speak to one person, you speak to many.
When you speak to many, you speak to no one because it just
gets lost. So really, when you're looking
at who do I want to serve? Who's my, who is it the, the,
what type of the energy do you want to be surrounded by?
Because I don't think it's so much the person or the
(48:31):
demographic or an age group, butwho's the energy you want to
work with? Do you want to, you know, work
with somebody that is, you know,super open to what you have to
offer or offer? Or do you, you do you want to
work with something that you've got to convince that this works
for you, right? Which is a harder sell overall
because then you're trying to change somebody's mindset when I
(48:53):
think it's easier to slip into the story or the belief of where
they're already at. So it's not so much of trying to
align with somebody else. The question is, who do you want
to work with? Somebody that's open to this
idea, Some of that might have heard about it in whispers and
things like that. That is, you know, looking for
something different. I think that starts kind of
(49:14):
playing into your marketing because you'll start speaking to
that person. You'll actually create content
speaking to a individual becauseyou feel that's the energetic of
the person you want to be around.
Exactly. Something to think about.
All right, well, I love this. So for those of you that are
listening in the audience, thereare many moments that Elisa was
(49:36):
like, holy crap, she said something.
Did she really say that? Absolutely.
There were some great Nuggets inhere that I want you to go back
and just listen to this again. Make sure you grab the download
in the show notes. Follow her.
Her social media is going to be in there too.
So connect with her, follow her,see what she where she's at and
you know, if she makes sense andsomebody reach out, reach out to
(49:59):
her, right. That's part of The thing is you
just never know who you who you need to connect with.
And I'm almost positive there's somebody that's listening right
now that says, I'm curious, can I learn some more?
So thank you so much for just being here, being so open, so
transparent, so lit up around this conversation and really
(50:20):
addressing the key elements of burnout, some of the hidden
triggers, things that we can be aware of to help us, you know,
notice when burnout is going to be happening.
And then giving us some, even some basic techniques that we
can start today to help regulateour nervous system.
So you have been incredible on today's episode of Did she
really Say That? So thank you for being a guest
(50:41):
with us. Thank you so much, Katrina, for
this opportunity and for this space.
I really love talking to you andyour audience.
Right, we'll see you again and everybody for that's listening.
And if you've got value from this, give us a comment, give us
a five star rating, and we'll see you on the next episode.
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