December 3, 2025 • 41 mins
Episode Summary:
In this engaging episode of Did She Really Say That?, Katrina van Oudheusden hosts Carri Munn, a pioneering force in social entrepreneurship and co-founder of Circle Generation. They dive into a conversation about challenging traditional business practices, emphasizing collaboration, generational and cultural diversity, and the power of regenerative social change.
Key Discussion Points:
The Philosophy of Circle Generation: Carri shares the vision behind Circle Generation, emphasizing collaboration, sharing diverse perspectives, and fostering a new generation of leaders.
Breaking Away from Traditional Business Models: Discover how Circle Generation moves away from patriarchal business approaches to embrace a more collaborative and relationship-driven model.
The Importance of Leadership with Love and Care: Discussing the need for a culture of care and collaboration in leadership, as opposed to hierarchical, competitive structures.
Navigating Dynamic Tensions: Insights into handling conflicts and understanding diverse perspectives for creating harmonious professional environments.
Encouragement for Women Entrepreneurs: Katrina and Carri share empowering advice for women to embrace their leadership roles and the value of collaboration over solo entrepreneurship.
Guest Bio:
Carri Munn is a master facilitator, cyborg anthropologist, community organizer, brand strategist, and corporate rebel. With a passion for social entrepreneurship, she co-founded Circle Generation, bringing her expertise in consulting and leadership to foster generative change across cultures and generations. Carri’s work emphasizes creating synergy in leadership to make impactful and cooperative changes in the world.
Recommended Resources & Links Mentioned:
Circle Generation Website: Learn more about their mission and their approach to leadership.
Podcast: Alive and Learning: Discover more about relational approaches and how they impact social entrepreneurship.
Grab a special offer from Carri - 20% discount to anyone listening who'd like to join a future cohort of the network leadership series, a complimentary 30 min advising call with one of our team to offer support around a collaboration challenge, and you're welcome to a world of perspectives through our blog at Circle Generation.com and podcast Alive and Learning at aliveandlearning.net
Thanks for listening! If you are enjoying our podcast, leave a comment below. We love hearing from our fans and other female entrepreneurs! We are collaborating to make business better for every woman! Feel free to share this podcast on your favorite social platform. And if you are listening on any of the podcast platforms, we would love it if you could post a 5-star review. Please, help us get our message out! Together, we discover how each woman has the power to unlock another woman when we are open about what we are redefining as women in business.
About Your Host: Katrina van Oudheusden
Former Chef at Walt Disney World® Resort, Restaurateur, Speaker, and CEO of Truth Bomb Marketing. Katrina is a sought-after consultant for small business growth among female entrepreneurs.
She created a revolutionary business training method called ‘CreatHER™ Business Rewire’. Weaving together time, money, and business growth by preventing burnout and strengthening female leadership skills.
Alongside the CreatHER™ Planner, women are finally experiencing less stress in all areas of their lives. When the focus begins with HERself, women discover a freedom to dream big, increase revenue, and design a marketing strategy that works for them.
CreatHer Money Revolution: http://creathersummit.com
Blog: https://truthbombmarketing.com/blog
CreatHER Planner: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-planner-2026
CreatHER Reset: https://truthbombmarketing.com/reset
CreatHER Business Rewire: https://truthbombmarketing.com/creather-business-rewire/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Well, welcome to today's episodeof Did She Really?
Say that. And trust me, you're going to
say that quite a bit as we interview Carrie around what
she's been building in the worldof business.
And here's what I love about this conversation we're about to
have is that Carrie really does focus in on more of the
relationship, getting away from the patriotical way of doing
(00:22):
business and really focusing on the collaborations and
relationships and the generational relationships that
are so critical that often feel they're missing, right?
Kerry kind of feel like they're not there so much.
So I'm excited to have you in onhere.
Now, who is Kerry? Real quick, I'm going to do a
quick introduction for her, for all my listeners.
You know how I do this. So she's the amazing daughter of
(00:44):
two extraordinary human beings in the world.
She is. They're her parents are
kindergarten teachers and corporate salespeople.
So, like, she has been in this world of teaching and life by
design, Right? And I love what she brings in
here. She is the first out of box
champion of social entrepreneurship.
Seriously, Carrie, social entrepreneurship.
(01:04):
Does that, like, exist? It does now, yeah.
Not what does it mean? We love social entrepreneurship.
It's part of who what we should be creating and focused on
instead of sole entrepreneurshipand everything else that we tend
to do. I think when you talk about
social entrepreneurship, it really connects us as human
beings instead of pitting US against each other.
(01:25):
So I'm excited that you've pioneered this and really are
leading the conversation around this.
She lives up in or she moved up to the North Pacific.
She has worked for 12 years as consulting firms led by liberal
advoc advocist and magical queerfolk.
I love this. She has been fortunate to be
mentioned as a master facilitator, A Cyborg
anthropologist and community organizer, brand strategist, and
(01:48):
corporate rebel. Thank you for being a rebel in
the world. I really appreciate it.
In 2016, lady, she started her own consulting business to
pursue her love and women. And you love something, you go
after it with your whole heart. And hers is around organizations
as a living system, launching context for action as a place to
explore collective wisdom and regenerative social change.
(02:14):
I've heard of regenerative farming.
So when I heard this word and I saw it again, I was like, oh,
we're getting back to regenerative social change.
Like let's do this. So in 2024, she Co founded the
Circle Generation to continue building collective change
throughout the world and throughout networks.
So I am so excited to have you here.
There's so much more and ladies,you guys can read about it in
(02:36):
the show notes down below. But honestly, Carrie, I love
what you're up to. So let's just dive into this
conversation about how you got started in this world of Circle
Generation. Like what had you go and build
that? That's such a great question and
you know, I'm I'm thinking a lotin cycles and and this morning
(03:00):
was part of a a conversation about something called panarchy,
which is looking at like where are things growing?
Where are they? Where are they stabilizing?
Where are they composting? Where are they would organizing
themselves right. So circle Generation came out of
the compost of another collaboration and rather than
(03:20):
be, I mean we were sad for a little while, but then we looked
at each other and we were like, we want to keep doing this work.
So three women said, let's continue and let's continue to
do it this way. So we were inspired by our Co
founder Nono Sakoto and her lifeand base in South Africa.
(03:42):
And so our other Co founder is in British Columbia, in BC, in
Canada, and I'm in the Pacific Northwest of the US.
And so the three of us have, youknow, this, this holding of
this, this vision for looking atparticularly Africa, but also
places in the world where the youth are coming up and saying
(04:06):
we need a different way of leadership.
We need leadership that understands how to return to a
circle, how to look at each other up, you know, around that
circle and say, I'm I'm, I can'tdo this by myself.
I need your perspective. I need perspectives that's that
are different than mine. And I need to be able to weave
(04:26):
them together in a way that we can be more together than we
could be on our own. And our aspiration, big one, is
to foster a whole generation of leaders who see the value in
that, understand the practices and the the sort of, I don't
know, different ways of thinking.
Like I, this is kind of where I like to be a practical
(04:49):
revolutionary because I, I know it's different, but in order for
it to actually take root, we have to get like down and you.
Have to be different. You have to challenge.
Things that we do day-to-day andwhat are the ways that we like
the regenerative part of it is what are the ways that we
nourish ourselves? And how do we, how do we like
stay in touch with that for ourselves?
(05:11):
You know, have I gotten enough rest?
Am I tending to to what I need so that I can show up with and
for other people and together Cocreate the kinds of change that
we're hoping to see? Yeah, and I think it's so
important because when you talk about regenerative and then what
there's something you said, and I think this has been a real
(05:31):
push amongst the younger generation and I'm so grateful
for this is like, what's the endgame of everything that's being
created? Like if you're responsible for
creating AT shirt, what's the end life of that T-shirt?
Not to go just in the dump, but like where does it go from
there? If you're creating technology or
something like a computer, I've always asked the question like,
where do you go? What what happens after its
(05:52):
life, right. And so when you look at the
leadership of the next generation, they're asking these
questions and they're actually forcing change in these big old,
outdated companies and saying you're responsible, you created
this, you have accountability for how its end life gets taken
care of. Like what are you building or
(06:14):
what are you changing or evolving so that we don't stay
in these stagnant practices. So I love what you guys are
creating and just leading the way.
My question for for you that I'mkind of hearing from the viewers
also is 3 women, three differentcontinents, three different
cultures. How is that working for you?
(06:39):
Any challenges around just beingin different places, different
cultures or is that, is that like a benefit?
Like I hear both, right? Like I'm hearing it can.
It's really a great 'cause you're seeing different parts of
the world and you're not just coming out from one point of
view. But have there been any
challenges in terms of bringing this collaboration together as
three women from three differentcontinents?
Well, I think the benefit is that we've worked together and
(07:01):
collaborated together for several years before and then
and said, let's let's create this thing.
And also, I mean, the, the sort of like the universe had our
backs because it was pretty effortless, which is one of the,
the kind of signs and signals that I know or have come to
(07:22):
know. I don't think I always knew that
I was on track because we said, oh, what would it be like to do
this? And then all of the pieces just
started constellating themselvesand it felt like we were
holding, but it felt like we were, you know, like, oh,
there's a piece over there and there's a piece over there.
And and so we allowed it to happen as much as we said yes to
(07:48):
it. So that that was really helpful.
But challenges for sure, like bank accounts, international
things that we need that other cultures don't need.
Like I learned I still have a checkbook like over here on the
other side of my desk that I used to write checks to my
farmers every month for, for my CSA.
(08:09):
And when we started talking about how we get money to flow
back and forth between us as, aswe're all technically
contractors in the company, my, my friend was like, we haven't
had checks in South Africa sinceI was born, you know, and, and
she's in her 40s. So like there, there are these
moments, the like the leapfrog moments where you realize that
(08:32):
like your reality is not at all the same.
So it keeps us on our toes for sure.
And in terms of just the, the, the, the other thing that I
think is most obvious is just finding time to connect.
So one of the things that I ended up doing was leaving to go
to South Africa a week early before a convening because we
(08:57):
needed time, more time in the day where we could overlap and
collaborate. Because as it is, you know, the,
the, the Pacific Time zones are up early and the South African
time zone is, you know, working through dinner.
And so we meet each other in these, these interesting ways.
(09:17):
And sometimes it's hilarious andother times we just are really
good at collaborating, really good at keeping tabs on what the
other people need to know, whichis, you know, part of also the
way that we do this work is like, how many dimensions of
work are we able to track at thesame time?
And can we do that in a thoughtful way so that the
(09:39):
people we're in collaboration with, we're always feeding them
or requesting from them feedbackand alignment around the the
pieces that touch what they are holding?
Well, I think it. Also.
Yeah. So one of the questions that
also kind of came up to me is, as you're talking is of the
(10:00):
three of you, is there a generational gap between each
one of you? Are you guys all closer to an
age group we're about? 10 years apart OK so so between
us there's there's 20 and it's it's also it's.
Literally a generational circle,like I love this because it does
touch upon different generations, how we're raised,
different cultures, how we're raised.
(10:21):
And I think that's the that's one thing that's fascinating
about what you've created. And we have also different
experiences. You know, we have somebody is
very good and very grounded in, in practical finance.
I'm more grounded in the the operationalization of consulting
firms as a, as a practice because I've managed some for
(10:42):
for many years. And you know, our, our other
consultant is very attuned to, to teaching and supporting and
just received her PhD. And so it brings that academic
rigor and also has worked as a psychotherapist.
And so that helps bring the relational approach into the
(11:05):
center in ways that we're all holding and touching different
parts and leveraging each other's strengths and, and I
think beautiful, beautiful ways.And I think that's one of the
things that I invite you, all ofyou women, to look at too,
because as Carrie's talking about this, a lot of times we
feel like we have to be the soloentrepreneur in your business.
Carrie's like, Oh my God, no, stop it.
Like you guys were not alive. But her, her, her.
(11:27):
Visceral reaction over on this side if you guys were only
listening to us was fantastic. She's like stop, like the head
drops back everything. So share a little bit about
that. There was a time where I was
working in a consulting firm anddoing solo projects and when I
came into the, the predecessor to circle generation, what's
(11:50):
called the converged network, there's still a lot of resources
and a kind of legacy website from all the, that, that amazing
group of humans Co created. And when I got there, one of the
things that I learned was like, no, we always work in pairs and
three if possible, because the work that we do is so complex
that there's no way that we could hold enough of what's
(12:14):
happening alone. And after a year of doing
projects with always another person, I was like, I'm never
going back. I'm never ever, ever doing
anything all by myself again because it's just not as
enjoyable. What would you say as like as
women, we are kind of like, having that social connection is
really important to our well-being also.
(12:37):
Yes, I mean, I'm a geek in a lotof ways.
One of them is, is, is is like looking at interpersonal
neurobiology, which is a whole mouthful in and of itself.
But if if you look at the role of oxytocin, which is a primary
hormone for women, that is the bonding hormone.
That is one of the things that I, I think gets us out of bed
(13:01):
every morning is that capacity to connect, the desire to
connect. I mean, it's biological in
everyone. But I think women have a, a
little bit stronger dose of it. And we're designed to
communicate. You know, there's, there,
there's a bigger communication center in our brains than in
men's brains. So also, you know, like not
working exclusively with women, but with men, they need our
(13:24):
communication to help keep things connected and moving and
flowing. Agree.
There's the balance between us. There's the yin and Yang.
Like there is a reason where there's there's a feminine and a
masculine, there is a male or female.
There's always 2 of something inthis world, right?
There's always 2 of it, right, just so that it can procreate
(13:44):
that it does. And it's it's a way for us to
talk to each other. And there we each have that
gift, that insight, that abilityto bring something new to the
table. And I think with, you know, as
women, we often forget that whenwe decide to go into the world
of entrepreneurship or business ownership is that I gotta prove
myself phase comes into this whole thing or I gotta be
(14:08):
superwoman. I gotta do it all.
And I think that's just an insanity.
That's like a crazy conversation.
We've been telling each other. It's like, Oh no, you gotta be
perfect. You gotta do it all yourself.
It's like, that's just silly conversation.
It really is. And it's, it's very isolating
(14:28):
and depleting. And I don't know, I, I just feel
like it's such an old story and it gives rise to scarcity, which
is one of those things that, youknow, like circle generation is
about generativity. And generativity, we find
happens when, when you're working across difference,
because if you don't have any differentiation, you don't have
(14:53):
the capacity to exchange. What are you going to exchange?
You're the same. So.
So when you're saying conflict and different opinions is a good
thing, you are so anti this world in this normal moment
right now. I think it's generative.
I think it can be generative. We can like stay in our seats
(15:14):
about it and communicate how we feel and trust that other people
are interested in collaborating and being generative.
And then there's there's always a like a way to find a way.
What are some of the best tips that you have having learned
and, and what you guys are doingas a collective around this?
(15:35):
What are some of the ways that you've built through those
relationships or help people kind of maneuver through
conflict in relationships as leaders and business and life?
What are some of the the what are some things you've seen and
some tools that are out there that you've created?
We just talked about this Tuesday because we, we run this
network leadership series and this, the module this week was
(15:57):
about navigating dynamic tensions.
And so, you know, the first thing is just to normalize for
people that, that these tensionsexist, like you said, that the
polarities, like that's how we become 3D is these polarities.
So there's always a, a number ofthem, like building
(16:19):
relationships and taking action or myself interest in our shared
interest. And, and you know, in any
situation you're going to have to try kind of fine tune that
balance. And, and I like to think of it
like, you can't play beautiful music on a string that is too
loose or too tight. So in order to, to, to like, you
(16:43):
know, my daughter used to play violin.
So I'm doing this like violin thing.
In order to make the beautiful sound, you have to tune the, the
tension. And so one of the things we say
in our work, which is a lot about collaboration and, and
working relationally through, through networks and through
organizations, is that the, as the facilitator of that process,
(17:06):
you need to look for, OK, well, where is the tension first?
And can you name it? And then once you can name the
tension, can you explore what ishaving you pull this way and
what's having you pull that way?Like what is it that you see?
Because it's usually the result of diverse needs or diverse
perspectives. And so if you can uncover that
(17:28):
and then you can recenter the conversation on what serves us
right now, then you can find a way forward together and and
just being in that process and kind of normalizing.
Oh, this is what we do. Like it's natural.
Let's see what what each person is bringing to the table, and
then let's Co create something that's satisfying and and and
(17:49):
like fit for the purpose of right now.
Like it doesn't have to be the like the decision that people
get worried about. That's going to be like the
forever after because we did it this one way one time, but just
like what's what's right now? Staying present in what's
happening now instead of trying to or not even trying, but
worrying about a future outcome that may or may not even happen.
(18:11):
I think we get caught up in thata lot.
Is this future fear of somethingthat may or may not ever occur
that has us push back, pull backand really resist even change in
our own, you know, lives and ourown businesses and that
evolution? I guess to counter that, a lot
(18:36):
of culture building work that wedo emphasizes the importance of
listening. And so when people are telling
stories, we often practice listening for, OK, what are the
facts? What are the feelings that
you're hearing and what are the values?
And, and when you can start to tease those apart, you can get
(18:57):
to the concerns because it's really much more easy, I think,
for people to say, I'm concernedabout this because I value X,
whatever X is, right? So, so the concern that's coming
up for me about the future and the way that this plays out is
that this thing that I want to protect because it's meaningful
to me. I have a sense that this would
(19:19):
be at risk or that nobody else sees it and nobody else cares
about it. So that then is the is the real
conversation because you have a dream of the future and you
think that something is coming in to encroach it.
And that may or may not be true,but you don't know until you
have the conversation. Yeah, and I love what you said.
(19:40):
I mean reiterate with our listeners that are are listening
to ladies. I think when the beautiful
things that Carrie said around this too, is that tension can
provide beautiful music if you're tuning, right.
And when I heard you say that, and I, I love string music.
I love string instruments. I love the, the vibration of it.
Like that's very much in tune for me.
And when you say that, it's like, it's not that we have to,
(20:04):
to loosen our beliefs. It's not that we have to give in
to everything because whenever, like you said, with those,
there's no tension on the strings.
If it's too loose, it doesn't play well either, right?
But if it's too tight, it screeches.
So there's this. Tension, balance that you're
going through. So either you're going to be a
wonky attitude or you're going to be high level screeching.
But when you can find that balance between that and you
(20:28):
bring it together, there's a harmony, there's a sound, there
is a vibration that both of you produce that starts to sync up,
that plays beautifully in the world that allows others to
listen to something a little differently.
And then you give them that, give people the opportunity to
say, OK, yeah, we can come at this from two different points
of view. But the end of the day, this is
we both believe this. This is the both the outcome of
(20:51):
what we're we want to accomplish.
And I think that's the beauty ofbeing able.
I just love the analogy around the strings because I can just
feel that over here in terms of like where that would play out
in your life. Because I feel like so many
times we are as women, too tense.
We are so pulled tight and that we just screech because we don't
(21:11):
know how. We're afraid to loosen, to get
into harmony. Just giving a little bit.
But then for those that feel like you're always giving in,
feeling like you can open up andtake that space and really like
own your your sound in the world, your voice in the world.
I think it's a beautiful for what you're creating and what
you're inviting others to be a part of around the circle
(21:35):
generation. And this these networks and this
collaboration that the three of you are are going into
businesses and communities and networks and saying this is this
is how we bring it all together.And something that you said
there just resonated with me about the, the like what happens
when we're too tight? And then that person, I mean
(21:57):
like running a business and, andbeing a single mom with two
kids, like that's a lot. And so they're grown now, thank
goodness. So that eases things.
But there, there is a way. And we talk a lot about
engagement and participation in the work that we do because
there's a way in which you make it more possible for people to
(22:20):
step in and collaborate with youas opposed to doing it yourself.
And so thinking like taking a step back from that moment, that
keeps you in that tense position, right?
Because I'm like, oh, I hate that feeling that if I don't do
it, it's going to fall apart. And and then you just get more
and more and more tense because there's more and more pieces
(22:41):
that you've, you know, taken on.But if you can step back and
find the breathing room and say,how do I create the conditions
for other people to step in here, you know, which is, is a
kind of art of hosting in a way.You're you're hosting A
participatory space where you might be helping to track
(23:05):
overtime cycles what what you would like to see happen, but
you're really more of a facilitator than a doer.
It adds so much space and so much creativity and gives you so
much more room to benefit from everything that everybody else
can bring. And I think that's so true
(23:28):
because I think in the in the space that we're often put into,
we're focused so much on productivity, the actions,
right? And when you can step back and
get into the creative conversation of it all, you
actually get more creative, you get inspired.
There's a sense of a possibilitythat might not have existed
(23:48):
before. And I think that's really
important for everyone to listenis as ladies do you have you are
the creator. I mean, for the love of all that
is holding most of us have birthed to a human being into
this world, right? You're literally going through a
creation cycle in your life every single month.
I mean, this is the essence of being a female.
And so when you're looking at how do I collaborate, it's like
(24:11):
that's what you should be doing.Those are the the moments, not
this or should because I don't want to shoot all over the
place, but you, we want you in the space of, of growth and of
of being heard. Oh my gosh, yes, being heard and
yes to thinking about like whatever your baby is that
you're bringing into the world, like where's the village around
(24:34):
you? You know, where are the
grandmas? Where are the the, the, the
nieces, the nephews, the. Uncles the everybody, yeah.
Yeah, where, where, where are those folks so that that that
you don't have to do it alone. Handing off responsibilities is
a fantastic opportunity for you to grow as a human being and for
(24:57):
somebody else to raise up in their leadership.
I think that's where we tend to forget is like when you hand
somebody a responsibility and you let them succeed and or
struggle with it. I don't consider it failure.
I think some people might struggle with it.
It's learning opportunities. Very much so, but it can be
scary. I run, you know, I've, I've done
a lot of executive coaching and,and, and entrepreneurship
(25:21):
coaching. And one of the things that I
hear people stumble around is their ability to communicate the
fullness of the intention. What is the intention here?
Not like sometimes they will say, what is the outcome?
The outcome is 50 widgets or whatever.
(25:43):
But that doesn't describe to anybody the process of getting
there. And how do we transform these
raw materials, these relationships with these people,
this sort of goal, How does it materialize?
And, and that's the part when you're the leader, you, you, you
kind of just know that by default, especially I think
(26:05):
women do as creators fundamentally understand the
process of gestating and developing and birthing.
But we have to be able to share that vision in a way that other
people can see it, they can feelit, they can have a sense for
this comes first and that comes next.
And you know, a little bit too much salt or a little bit too
(26:26):
much sugar might do this in the equation.
So yeah, I think it's it's always important to think about
how are you telling the story ofwhat's wanting to be born?
So that leads into vision. So that would be my question for
you. What is your vision?
What is the collective, the three of you's vision for circle
(26:46):
generation? What does?
What is that growing and and nurturing into?
This happens on multiple levels,right?
So, so like we, we often talk about tracking, tracking at
different levels. So, so the first level is the
self. So each of us in ourselves wants
(27:07):
to be able to grow, wants to be able to be like financially
sustained, wants to be able to learn and wants to be able to
like enjoy the process of working together and the
experiences we get to have with our clients at the, the
relational level. You know, who are we in
(27:30):
relationship with? You know, we want to be in our,
our practice, our network practice helping to build these
leaders. So we want to be able to, to, to
be in relationship with amazing people.
We want to have a successful consulting firm that invites
more leaders to come and work with us and through us so that
(27:52):
there's generational cycles happening internally as well as
externally. And then on the the sort of
systemic level, we really want to be able to normalize this way
of working. We want, we want people to be
able to say, how can we do this together?
We want people to be able to saycollaboration is the way that
(28:14):
nature operates. And if we're going to be in tune
and in harmony with a planet andcontinue to have the blessing of
being able to live here, then weneed to be able to to understand
how to find those harmonies and how to find those synergies and
how to be, how to be, I guess, more together than we are when
(28:35):
we're isolated. And that means cleaning up a lot
of the things that we're doing and creating new ways of
working. And we hope those are the things
that become normal. So when you talk about
recreating the way things are working, you're talking about
turning leadership, which is like a top down pointing you do
this, you do this, I'm over you kind of thing, removing that
(28:55):
hierarchy structure, which is very military.
And I grew up in a kitchen and Ican tell you right now in a
kitchen that is like the higher art, it's literally called a
brigade. And if you want to get really
military, like, yeah, yeah, it'scalled a kitchen brigade.
The French development of the kitchen was called a kitchen
brigade. And everybody had a a place and
a place for everything. And you were systematized and
(29:17):
prioritized by your skill set and whether you were an
apprentice or a master. And then you had to go through
all these rigorous trainings. They actually built a tote.
So the French tote, if you guys have ever seen those tall white
hats that chefs wear, right? They the original intent was to
get 120 folds on your hat. And the 120 folds represented
(29:39):
the 120 different ways an egg can be made.
And so you learned your mastership skill through how you
could cook egg. Kid you not, that was the whole
thing. And that was how you learned to
be a master chef in the world ofculinary.
And so they were tests, there were rules, there were stations,
(29:59):
there were everything. And so when you talk about
shifting a very classical designed infrastructure and
you're bringing in this collaborative circle generation
thinking in there, you are literally tearing down the walls
of what it is, but in the world of food.
And that's what I'm kind of relating to for my listeners in
(30:20):
the world of food. Honestly, for me as a woman,
there's nothing better than having a group of women in the
kitchen cooking together, right?Because we're all masters at
something and we're all working on part of the dish and then it
all comes together. And I would rather be in that
environment than this top down being told what to do type of
environment. And so that's what you're
talking about really with leadership and circle generation
(30:42):
is that ability to more collaborate instead of dictate.
Absolutely. We talk about being able to tend
to the deliberate nature of a process as opposed to
predetermined outcomes. So we have a deliberate process
and we have emergent outcomes. So the deliberate process might
(31:02):
be 5 ladies coming over for dinner.
You bring these ingredients and I bring these ingredients and,
and, and we're going to cook. But what happens in that
intersection is going to be emergent.
But you, you tended to the, the creation process and then you,
you, you got what you got and itwas probably suitable.
(31:23):
But if you plan everything down to the T because you have this
predetermined outcome, then you're missing all kinds of
things. You're missing learning, you're
missing the capacity to adapt. You're missing the, the, the
intersectionality and the creativity and the engagement.
Because if everybody's in their own station, not talking to each
(31:44):
other and you're just listening to music, then then like at the
end of the night, you go home and you're like, well, I didn't
learn anything about your life. And, and so it, it changes the
feel. So you, you said systematized in
the word that we often use is mechanized.
Like did you become a cog in a machine?
And that's. So dehumanizing.
(32:05):
But nobody wants that. They want to be seen and heard
and witnessed and understood, and they want that relational
participatory nature of being present and in the world
together. And that's kind of everything.
Everything is doing that. Like in ecology, there's
(32:26):
exchange, there's learning, and then there's this mix of, of
like this polarity between my individual agency and, and my
belonging. And I can't belong if I am like,
forget you, I I don't have any responsibilities to anybody
(32:46):
here. That's not my problem.
That's under, that is not I, I'mnot paid enough to have to deal
with that or that is above my pay grade.
Things like that that we hear all the time.
Yeah. And that's not, that's not
caring. So one of the things we say when
we're cultivating these systems is that, you know, there's
there's an intentional process for cultivating, but the overall
(33:08):
context needs to be 1 of care needs to be 1, where we
recognize that we're in this together.
And sure, certain amount of competition is going to be
helpful. And, you know, like my daughter
and her violin used to go to theone competition that inspired
her to practice a lot, you know,so so we get better through a
kind of friendly competition. But if we let that competition
(33:31):
break the culture of care, then everybody loses.
Yeah. So true.
So for all of our listeners thatare female entrepreneurs or
small business owners, what would what would be something
you'd like to impart on them that you've learned in running
multiple companies, consulting and now with what you're
building with two other incredible women.
What would you say that there's one thing that you've learned
(33:53):
that you or some knowledge that you would like to have them take
some action around? I would say the fundamental
thing, and it is, is the piece that people don't do, which is
listen and knit things together.Oh.
Knit things together. Tend to the connective tissue in
(34:15):
your organization because if something isn't going right, if
somebody has some feeling something is off and you repair
that, the flow of information, the flow of resources, the flow
of like heartfelt inspiration isreactivated.
And that's the magical kind of tipping point where you get to
(34:36):
that space where you can do moretogether than you couldn't do
alone. Because if I can feel that sense
of connection and value and belonging, my heart can bring
exponential resource into the organization.
And, and getting there is, is about tending to those
(34:56):
relationships and listening to what's, what's flowing where the
energy is, you know, knowing what those, those that, that
those life cycles are like. We have them every single month,
like you said, you know, so, so like, what do those cycles look
like when you look at the organization that way?
What, what is, what is, what is building?
What is, is, is blossoming, whatis composting?
(35:19):
What needs to be like cleared out and reorganized?
Yeah. I think it's so important for
women here because there are seasons in our business, there
are cycles in our business. And a lot of times you're so
busy with our head down, trying to prove be productive, like
over action, everything that we're missing out on the entire
(35:40):
process in the journey that we're on and the ability to
collaborate. I mean, Carrie, this is one of
the reasons like, how did you come on here?
Because it's like, I want to collaborate with you.
I want to build the relationshipwith you.
Like this isn't just, you know, a sales pitch, right and are
getting to know each other. It was really like what, what
can we both bring to the world? What do we how can we support
each other? And I think that's the beauty as
(36:02):
you are designing businesses, ladies that are listening is
reach out, like connect and finda Society of women, a coven of
women, a network of women circlegeneration, like become part of
that as you develop your leadership skills.
And here's the crazy part, women, I love you all to pieces,
(36:22):
but sometimes you don't recognize your own powerful
leadership. You've been a mother, you've
LED, if you've been a wife, you've LED, if you've been a
friend, you've LED. Like there's this this belief
that we're we don't we have to model a different type of
leadership with who we are at our core as women, as leaders is
phenomenal. And I think that it's
(36:45):
beautifully demonstrated betweenCarrie and her, her women that
she works with and that she's Cofounded her company with.
Like you want a role model of how business looks differently.
I'm gifting to you right now Carrie and the circle generation
as a beautiful model of what's possible in terms of bringing
women together, collaborating across generations,
(37:06):
collaborating across cultures, collaborating across human
beings, male and female, and everybody in between.
Like you have this gift and I really invite you to connect
with Carrie on this. So Carrie, what are some of the
best ways to connect with you? Well, I'm, I'm happy to have
conversations with folks. And so there's, there's easy
ways to book like a 30 minute call and talk about what's,
(37:28):
what's possible and with with meand with my colleagues.
And so there's a lot of ways there.
There's, there's more of this kind of relational approach
wisdom in our podcast that's called alive and learning.
So we've, we've completed one season and we're working on the
(37:48):
the next one, which will be a larger telling and a different
story about how the money flows is what we're hoping.
And, and looking at the relational space, not just with
the, the, the people who are doing the social impact, but
also with, with the funders and who's funding it and how that
relationship is changing. So lots of ways to connect and,
(38:11):
you know, you can find us@circlegeneration.com.
We're up to all kinds of things.And we'd love to hear more about
what, what the listeners are up to.
And, and I, I really truly thinkthat the women are going to lead
differently and that that power is a the degenerative power is
different than the sort of raw power of doing.
(38:34):
And so there's there's just something in there.
We're not going to do it ourselves.
We're not going to do it exclusively, but, but I do think
we have a lot like you said to bring to the table as as leaders
that may look like a different way.
And inviting you to have explorethat different and explore how
(38:55):
your business grows and be OK that it might not look as
everybody else's. And that is maybe the model that
is being created by you. So I love this Carrie.
This has always been a fascinating conversation,
ladies. For those that are listening,
definitely connect with Carrie. Learn more about circle
generation. The link's going to be down in
the show notes wherever you're listening to.
(39:15):
So definitely click over there. If they've got their blog,
definitely we're going to tag the their podcast in here also.
So go listen to her podcast and and what they're up to.
And you know, know that there are so many different ways
businesses can be designed. You know what Carrie and her Co
founders are building generationally across
(39:37):
continents, anything as possiblewhen you're aligned with the
intention and you find the individuals, men or women, that
can bring your idea to life, right?
And just know that as a female leader and entrepreneur and a
business owner, you have the creative ability to shift or
fill gaps that may not look likewhat's out there.
(39:59):
And that's where we invite you to play.
So with that, Carrie, any last words of wisdom for our
listeners? I think I'm just thinking about
love and bringing that and keeping it present for ourselves
and for for everyone we're around because it feels good.
(40:20):
And the more that we can infuse that into what we're doing and
how we're doing it and who we'redoing it with, I think the the
more generative we can become. I love it.
Well, thank you, ladies, becauseif you if you're listening to
this podcast, you've heard her say a couple things about did
she really say that? Yes, she did.
There were moments. I hope you've been inspired that
(40:41):
you got a new creative look on your life and at your business.
And thank you again for listening to this episode of Did
she really say that? And we look forward to having
you come back and be here again,Carrie, in the future and and
you know, sharing with your nextevolution as you continue to
grow and what you're doing and what you're creating in the
world. So thank you for the blessing
you are. Thank you so much for having me.
(41:03):
Thank you for listening or watching this episode of Did She
really say that? If you enjoyed this episode,
press that subscribe button and give us a five star rating and.
To learn more about the create her business rewire.
We're pioneering the female business model for genuine
success and harmony. This is for self, family, wealth
and philanthropy. Because we know you're not just
building a bigger business, you're building a sustainable,
(41:25):
self aligned impact. Details will be down below in
the description to learn more about create her business
Rewired.
Well, welcome to today's episodeof Did She Really?
Say that. And trust me, you're going to
say that quite a bit as we interview Carrie around what
she's been building in the worldof business.
And here's what I love about this conversation we're about to
have is that Carrie really does focus in on more of the
relationship, getting away from the patriotical way of doing
(00:22):
business and really focusing on the collaborations and
relationships and the generational relationships that
are so critical that often feel they're missing, right?
Kerry kind of feel like they're not there so much.
So I'm excited to have you in onhere.
Now, who is Kerry? Real quick, I'm going to do a
quick introduction for her, for all my listeners.
You know how I do this. So she's the amazing daughter of
(00:44):
two extraordinary human beings in the world.
She is. They're her parents are
kindergarten teachers and corporate salespeople.
So, like, she has been in this world of teaching and life by
design, Right? And I love what she brings in
here. She is the first out of box
champion of social entrepreneurship.
Seriously, Carrie, social entrepreneurship.
(01:04):
Does that, like, exist? It does now, yeah.
Not what does it mean? We love social entrepreneurship.
It's part of who what we should be creating and focused on
instead of sole entrepreneurshipand everything else that we tend
to do. I think when you talk about
social entrepreneurship, it really connects us as human
beings instead of pitting US against each other.
(01:25):
So I'm excited that you've pioneered this and really are
leading the conversation around this.
She lives up in or she moved up to the North Pacific.
She has worked for 12 years as consulting firms led by liberal
advoc advocist and magical queerfolk.
I love this. She has been fortunate to be
mentioned as a master facilitator, A Cyborg
anthropologist and community organizer, brand strategist, and
(01:48):
corporate rebel. Thank you for being a rebel in
the world. I really appreciate it.
In 2016, lady, she started her own consulting business to
pursue her love and women. And you love something, you go
after it with your whole heart. And hers is around organizations
as a living system, launching context for action as a place to
explore collective wisdom and regenerative social change.
(02:14):
I've heard of regenerative farming.
So when I heard this word and I saw it again, I was like, oh,
we're getting back to regenerative social change.
Like let's do this. So in 2024, she Co founded the
Circle Generation to continue building collective change
throughout the world and throughout networks.
So I am so excited to have you here.
There's so much more and ladies,you guys can read about it in
(02:36):
the show notes down below. But honestly, Carrie, I love
what you're up to. So let's just dive into this
conversation about how you got started in this world of Circle
Generation. Like what had you go and build
that? That's such a great question and
you know, I'm I'm thinking a lotin cycles and and this morning
(03:00):
was part of a a conversation about something called panarchy,
which is looking at like where are things growing?
Where are they? Where are they stabilizing?
Where are they composting? Where are they would organizing
themselves right. So circle Generation came out of
the compost of another collaboration and rather than
(03:20):
be, I mean we were sad for a little while, but then we looked
at each other and we were like, we want to keep doing this work.
So three women said, let's continue and let's continue to
do it this way. So we were inspired by our Co
founder Nono Sakoto and her lifeand base in South Africa.
(03:42):
And so our other Co founder is in British Columbia, in BC, in
Canada, and I'm in the Pacific Northwest of the US.
And so the three of us have, youknow, this, this holding of
this, this vision for looking atparticularly Africa, but also
places in the world where the youth are coming up and saying
(04:06):
we need a different way of leadership.
We need leadership that understands how to return to a
circle, how to look at each other up, you know, around that
circle and say, I'm I'm, I can'tdo this by myself.
I need your perspective. I need perspectives that's that
are different than mine. And I need to be able to weave
(04:26):
them together in a way that we can be more together than we
could be on our own. And our aspiration, big one, is
to foster a whole generation of leaders who see the value in
that, understand the practices and the the sort of, I don't
know, different ways of thinking.
Like I, this is kind of where I like to be a practical
(04:49):
revolutionary because I, I know it's different, but in order for
it to actually take root, we have to get like down and you.
Have to be different. You have to challenge.
Things that we do day-to-day andwhat are the ways that we like
the regenerative part of it is what are the ways that we
nourish ourselves? And how do we, how do we like
stay in touch with that for ourselves?
(05:11):
You know, have I gotten enough rest?
Am I tending to to what I need so that I can show up with and
for other people and together Cocreate the kinds of change that
we're hoping to see? Yeah, and I think it's so
important because when you talk about regenerative and then what
there's something you said, and I think this has been a real
(05:31):
push amongst the younger generation and I'm so grateful
for this is like, what's the endgame of everything that's being
created? Like if you're responsible for
creating AT shirt, what's the end life of that T-shirt?
Not to go just in the dump, but like where does it go from
there? If you're creating technology or
something like a computer, I've always asked the question like,
where do you go? What what happens after its
(05:52):
life, right. And so when you look at the
leadership of the next generation, they're asking these
questions and they're actually forcing change in these big old,
outdated companies and saying you're responsible, you created
this, you have accountability for how its end life gets taken
care of. Like what are you building or
(06:14):
what are you changing or evolving so that we don't stay
in these stagnant practices. So I love what you guys are
creating and just leading the way.
My question for for you that I'mkind of hearing from the viewers
also is 3 women, three differentcontinents, three different
cultures. How is that working for you?
(06:39):
Any challenges around just beingin different places, different
cultures or is that, is that like a benefit?
Like I hear both, right? Like I'm hearing it can.
It's really a great 'cause you're seeing different parts of
the world and you're not just coming out from one point of
view. But have there been any
challenges in terms of bringing this collaboration together as
three women from three differentcontinents?
Well, I think the benefit is that we've worked together and
(07:01):
collaborated together for several years before and then
and said, let's let's create this thing.
And also, I mean, the, the sort of like the universe had our
backs because it was pretty effortless, which is one of the,
the kind of signs and signals that I know or have come to
(07:22):
know. I don't think I always knew that
I was on track because we said, oh, what would it be like to do
this? And then all of the pieces just
started constellating themselvesand it felt like we were
holding, but it felt like we were, you know, like, oh,
there's a piece over there and there's a piece over there.
And and so we allowed it to happen as much as we said yes to
(07:48):
it. So that that was really helpful.
But challenges for sure, like bank accounts, international
things that we need that other cultures don't need.
Like I learned I still have a checkbook like over here on the
other side of my desk that I used to write checks to my
farmers every month for, for my CSA.
(08:09):
And when we started talking about how we get money to flow
back and forth between us as, aswe're all technically
contractors in the company, my, my friend was like, we haven't
had checks in South Africa sinceI was born, you know, and, and
she's in her 40s. So like there, there are these
moments, the like the leapfrog moments where you realize that
(08:32):
like your reality is not at all the same.
So it keeps us on our toes for sure.
And in terms of just the, the, the, the other thing that I
think is most obvious is just finding time to connect.
So one of the things that I ended up doing was leaving to go
to South Africa a week early before a convening because we
(08:57):
needed time, more time in the day where we could overlap and
collaborate. Because as it is, you know, the,
the, the Pacific Time zones are up early and the South African
time zone is, you know, working through dinner.
And so we meet each other in these, these interesting ways.
(09:17):
And sometimes it's hilarious andother times we just are really
good at collaborating, really good at keeping tabs on what the
other people need to know, whichis, you know, part of also the
way that we do this work is like, how many dimensions of
work are we able to track at thesame time?
And can we do that in a thoughtful way so that the
(09:39):
people we're in collaboration with, we're always feeding them
or requesting from them feedbackand alignment around the the
pieces that touch what they are holding?
Well, I think it. Also.
Yeah. So one of the questions that
also kind of came up to me is, as you're talking is of the
(10:00):
three of you, is there a generational gap between each
one of you? Are you guys all closer to an
age group we're about? 10 years apart OK so so between
us there's there's 20 and it's it's also it's.
Literally a generational circle,like I love this because it does
touch upon different generations, how we're raised,
different cultures, how we're raised.
(10:21):
And I think that's the that's one thing that's fascinating
about what you've created. And we have also different
experiences. You know, we have somebody is
very good and very grounded in, in practical finance.
I'm more grounded in the the operationalization of consulting
firms as a, as a practice because I've managed some for
(10:42):
for many years. And you know, our, our other
consultant is very attuned to, to teaching and supporting and
just received her PhD. And so it brings that academic
rigor and also has worked as a psychotherapist.
And so that helps bring the relational approach into the
(11:05):
center in ways that we're all holding and touching different
parts and leveraging each other's strengths and, and I
think beautiful, beautiful ways.And I think that's one of the
things that I invite you, all ofyou women, to look at too,
because as Carrie's talking about this, a lot of times we
feel like we have to be the soloentrepreneur in your business.
Carrie's like, Oh my God, no, stop it.
Like you guys were not alive. But her, her, her.
(11:27):
Visceral reaction over on this side if you guys were only
listening to us was fantastic. She's like stop, like the head
drops back everything. So share a little bit about
that. There was a time where I was
working in a consulting firm anddoing solo projects and when I
came into the, the predecessor to circle generation, what's
(11:50):
called the converged network, there's still a lot of resources
and a kind of legacy website from all the, that, that amazing
group of humans Co created. And when I got there, one of the
things that I learned was like, no, we always work in pairs and
three if possible, because the work that we do is so complex
that there's no way that we could hold enough of what's
(12:14):
happening alone. And after a year of doing
projects with always another person, I was like, I'm never
going back. I'm never ever, ever doing
anything all by myself again because it's just not as
enjoyable. What would you say as like as
women, we are kind of like, having that social connection is
really important to our well-being also.
(12:37):
Yes, I mean, I'm a geek in a lotof ways.
One of them is, is, is is like looking at interpersonal
neurobiology, which is a whole mouthful in and of itself.
But if if you look at the role of oxytocin, which is a primary
hormone for women, that is the bonding hormone.
That is one of the things that I, I think gets us out of bed
(13:01):
every morning is that capacity to connect, the desire to
connect. I mean, it's biological in
everyone. But I think women have a, a
little bit stronger dose of it. And we're designed to
communicate. You know, there's, there,
there's a bigger communication center in our brains than in
men's brains. So also, you know, like not
working exclusively with women, but with men, they need our
(13:24):
communication to help keep things connected and moving and
flowing. Agree.
There's the balance between us. There's the yin and Yang.
Like there is a reason where there's there's a feminine and a
masculine, there is a male or female.
There's always 2 of something inthis world, right?
There's always 2 of it, right, just so that it can procreate
(13:44):
that it does. And it's it's a way for us to
talk to each other. And there we each have that
gift, that insight, that abilityto bring something new to the
table. And I think with, you know, as
women, we often forget that whenwe decide to go into the world
of entrepreneurship or business ownership is that I gotta prove
myself phase comes into this whole thing or I gotta be
(14:08):
superwoman. I gotta do it all.
And I think that's just an insanity.
That's like a crazy conversation.
We've been telling each other. It's like, Oh no, you gotta be
perfect. You gotta do it all yourself.
It's like, that's just silly conversation.
It really is. And it's, it's very isolating
(14:28):
and depleting. And I don't know, I, I just feel
like it's such an old story and it gives rise to scarcity, which
is one of those things that, youknow, like circle generation is
about generativity. And generativity, we find
happens when, when you're working across difference,
because if you don't have any differentiation, you don't have
(14:53):
the capacity to exchange. What are you going to exchange?
You're the same. So.
So when you're saying conflict and different opinions is a good
thing, you are so anti this world in this normal moment
right now. I think it's generative.
I think it can be generative. We can like stay in our seats
(15:14):
about it and communicate how we feel and trust that other people
are interested in collaborating and being generative.
And then there's there's always a like a way to find a way.
What are some of the best tips that you have having learned
and, and what you guys are doingas a collective around this?
(15:35):
What are some of the ways that you've built through those
relationships or help people kind of maneuver through
conflict in relationships as leaders and business and life?
What are some of the the what are some things you've seen and
some tools that are out there that you've created?
We just talked about this Tuesday because we, we run this
network leadership series and this, the module this week was
(15:57):
about navigating dynamic tensions.
And so, you know, the first thing is just to normalize for
people that, that these tensionsexist, like you said, that the
polarities, like that's how we become 3D is these polarities.
So there's always a, a number ofthem, like building
(16:19):
relationships and taking action or myself interest in our shared
interest. And, and you know, in any
situation you're going to have to try kind of fine tune that
balance. And, and I like to think of it
like, you can't play beautiful music on a string that is too
loose or too tight. So in order to, to, to like, you
(16:43):
know, my daughter used to play violin.
So I'm doing this like violin thing.
In order to make the beautiful sound, you have to tune the, the
tension. And so one of the things we say
in our work, which is a lot about collaboration and, and
working relationally through, through networks and through
organizations, is that the, as the facilitator of that process,
(17:06):
you need to look for, OK, well, where is the tension first?
And can you name it? And then once you can name the
tension, can you explore what ishaving you pull this way and
what's having you pull that way?Like what is it that you see?
Because it's usually the result of diverse needs or diverse
perspectives. And so if you can uncover that
(17:28):
and then you can recenter the conversation on what serves us
right now, then you can find a way forward together and and
just being in that process and kind of normalizing.
Oh, this is what we do. Like it's natural.
Let's see what what each person is bringing to the table, and
then let's Co create something that's satisfying and and and
(17:49):
like fit for the purpose of right now.
Like it doesn't have to be the like the decision that people
get worried about. That's going to be like the
forever after because we did it this one way one time, but just
like what's what's right now? Staying present in what's
happening now instead of trying to or not even trying, but
worrying about a future outcome that may or may not even happen.
(18:11):
I think we get caught up in thata lot.
Is this future fear of somethingthat may or may not ever occur
that has us push back, pull backand really resist even change in
our own, you know, lives and ourown businesses and that
evolution? I guess to counter that, a lot
(18:36):
of culture building work that wedo emphasizes the importance of
listening. And so when people are telling
stories, we often practice listening for, OK, what are the
facts? What are the feelings that
you're hearing and what are the values?
And, and when you can start to tease those apart, you can get
(18:57):
to the concerns because it's really much more easy, I think,
for people to say, I'm concernedabout this because I value X,
whatever X is, right? So, so the concern that's coming
up for me about the future and the way that this plays out is
that this thing that I want to protect because it's meaningful
to me. I have a sense that this would
(19:19):
be at risk or that nobody else sees it and nobody else cares
about it. So that then is the is the real
conversation because you have a dream of the future and you
think that something is coming in to encroach it.
And that may or may not be true,but you don't know until you
have the conversation. Yeah, and I love what you said.
(19:40):
I mean reiterate with our listeners that are are listening
to ladies. I think when the beautiful
things that Carrie said around this too, is that tension can
provide beautiful music if you're tuning, right.
And when I heard you say that, and I, I love string music.
I love string instruments. I love the, the vibration of it.
Like that's very much in tune for me.
And when you say that, it's like, it's not that we have to,
(20:04):
to loosen our beliefs. It's not that we have to give in
to everything because whenever, like you said, with those,
there's no tension on the strings.
If it's too loose, it doesn't play well either, right?
But if it's too tight, it screeches.
So there's this. Tension, balance that you're
going through. So either you're going to be a
wonky attitude or you're going to be high level screeching.
But when you can find that balance between that and you
(20:28):
bring it together, there's a harmony, there's a sound, there
is a vibration that both of you produce that starts to sync up,
that plays beautifully in the world that allows others to
listen to something a little differently.
And then you give them that, give people the opportunity to
say, OK, yeah, we can come at this from two different points
of view. But the end of the day, this is
we both believe this. This is the both the outcome of
(20:51):
what we're we want to accomplish.
And I think that's the beauty ofbeing able.
I just love the analogy around the strings because I can just
feel that over here in terms of like where that would play out
in your life. Because I feel like so many
times we are as women, too tense.
We are so pulled tight and that we just screech because we don't
(21:11):
know how. We're afraid to loosen, to get
into harmony. Just giving a little bit.
But then for those that feel like you're always giving in,
feeling like you can open up andtake that space and really like
own your your sound in the world, your voice in the world.
I think it's a beautiful for what you're creating and what
you're inviting others to be a part of around the circle
(21:35):
generation. And this these networks and this
collaboration that the three of you are are going into
businesses and communities and networks and saying this is this
is how we bring it all together.And something that you said
there just resonated with me about the, the like what happens
when we're too tight? And then that person, I mean
(21:57):
like running a business and, andbeing a single mom with two
kids, like that's a lot. And so they're grown now, thank
goodness. So that eases things.
But there, there is a way. And we talk a lot about
engagement and participation in the work that we do because
there's a way in which you make it more possible for people to
(22:20):
step in and collaborate with youas opposed to doing it yourself.
And so thinking like taking a step back from that moment, that
keeps you in that tense position, right?
Because I'm like, oh, I hate that feeling that if I don't do
it, it's going to fall apart. And and then you just get more
and more and more tense because there's more and more pieces
(22:41):
that you've, you know, taken on.But if you can step back and
find the breathing room and say,how do I create the conditions
for other people to step in here, you know, which is, is a
kind of art of hosting in a way.You're you're hosting A
participatory space where you might be helping to track
(23:05):
overtime cycles what what you would like to see happen, but
you're really more of a facilitator than a doer.
It adds so much space and so much creativity and gives you so
much more room to benefit from everything that everybody else
can bring. And I think that's so true
(23:28):
because I think in the in the space that we're often put into,
we're focused so much on productivity, the actions,
right? And when you can step back and
get into the creative conversation of it all, you
actually get more creative, you get inspired.
There's a sense of a possibilitythat might not have existed
(23:48):
before. And I think that's really
important for everyone to listenis as ladies do you have you are
the creator. I mean, for the love of all that
is holding most of us have birthed to a human being into
this world, right? You're literally going through a
creation cycle in your life every single month.
I mean, this is the essence of being a female.
And so when you're looking at how do I collaborate, it's like
(24:11):
that's what you should be doing.Those are the the moments, not
this or should because I don't want to shoot all over the
place, but you, we want you in the space of, of growth and of
of being heard. Oh my gosh, yes, being heard and
yes to thinking about like whatever your baby is that
you're bringing into the world, like where's the village around
(24:34):
you? You know, where are the
grandmas? Where are the the, the, the
nieces, the nephews, the. Uncles the everybody, yeah.
Yeah, where, where, where are those folks so that that that
you don't have to do it alone. Handing off responsibilities is
a fantastic opportunity for you to grow as a human being and for
(24:57):
somebody else to raise up in their leadership.
I think that's where we tend to forget is like when you hand
somebody a responsibility and you let them succeed and or
struggle with it. I don't consider it failure.
I think some people might struggle with it.
It's learning opportunities. Very much so, but it can be
scary. I run, you know, I've, I've done
a lot of executive coaching and,and, and entrepreneurship
(25:21):
coaching. And one of the things that I
hear people stumble around is their ability to communicate the
fullness of the intention. What is the intention here?
Not like sometimes they will say, what is the outcome?
The outcome is 50 widgets or whatever.
(25:43):
But that doesn't describe to anybody the process of getting
there. And how do we transform these
raw materials, these relationships with these people,
this sort of goal, How does it materialize?
And, and that's the part when you're the leader, you, you, you
kind of just know that by default, especially I think
(26:05):
women do as creators fundamentally understand the
process of gestating and developing and birthing.
But we have to be able to share that vision in a way that other
people can see it, they can feelit, they can have a sense for
this comes first and that comes next.
And you know, a little bit too much salt or a little bit too
(26:26):
much sugar might do this in the equation.
So yeah, I think it's it's always important to think about
how are you telling the story ofwhat's wanting to be born?
So that leads into vision. So that would be my question for
you. What is your vision?
What is the collective, the three of you's vision for circle
(26:46):
generation? What does?
What is that growing and and nurturing into?
This happens on multiple levels,right?
So, so like we, we often talk about tracking, tracking at
different levels. So, so the first level is the
self. So each of us in ourselves wants
(27:07):
to be able to grow, wants to be able to be like financially
sustained, wants to be able to learn and wants to be able to
like enjoy the process of working together and the
experiences we get to have with our clients at the, the
relational level. You know, who are we in
(27:30):
relationship with? You know, we want to be in our,
our practice, our network practice helping to build these
leaders. So we want to be able to, to, to
be in relationship with amazing people.
We want to have a successful consulting firm that invites
more leaders to come and work with us and through us so that
(27:52):
there's generational cycles happening internally as well as
externally. And then on the the sort of
systemic level, we really want to be able to normalize this way
of working. We want, we want people to be
able to say, how can we do this together?
We want people to be able to saycollaboration is the way that
(28:14):
nature operates. And if we're going to be in tune
and in harmony with a planet andcontinue to have the blessing of
being able to live here, then weneed to be able to to understand
how to find those harmonies and how to find those synergies and
how to be, how to be, I guess, more together than we are when
(28:35):
we're isolated. And that means cleaning up a lot
of the things that we're doing and creating new ways of
working. And we hope those are the things
that become normal. So when you talk about
recreating the way things are working, you're talking about
turning leadership, which is like a top down pointing you do
this, you do this, I'm over you kind of thing, removing that
(28:55):
hierarchy structure, which is very military.
And I grew up in a kitchen and Ican tell you right now in a
kitchen that is like the higher art, it's literally called a
brigade. And if you want to get really
military, like, yeah, yeah, it'scalled a kitchen brigade.
The French development of the kitchen was called a kitchen
brigade. And everybody had a a place and
a place for everything. And you were systematized and
(29:17):
prioritized by your skill set and whether you were an
apprentice or a master. And then you had to go through
all these rigorous trainings. They actually built a tote.
So the French tote, if you guys have ever seen those tall white
hats that chefs wear, right? They the original intent was to
get 120 folds on your hat. And the 120 folds represented
(29:39):
the 120 different ways an egg can be made.
And so you learned your mastership skill through how you
could cook egg. Kid you not, that was the whole
thing. And that was how you learned to
be a master chef in the world ofculinary.
And so they were tests, there were rules, there were stations,
(29:59):
there were everything. And so when you talk about
shifting a very classical designed infrastructure and
you're bringing in this collaborative circle generation
thinking in there, you are literally tearing down the walls
of what it is, but in the world of food.
And that's what I'm kind of relating to for my listeners in
(30:20):
the world of food. Honestly, for me as a woman,
there's nothing better than having a group of women in the
kitchen cooking together, right?Because we're all masters at
something and we're all working on part of the dish and then it
all comes together. And I would rather be in that
environment than this top down being told what to do type of
environment. And so that's what you're
talking about really with leadership and circle generation
(30:42):
is that ability to more collaborate instead of dictate.
Absolutely. We talk about being able to tend
to the deliberate nature of a process as opposed to
predetermined outcomes. So we have a deliberate process
and we have emergent outcomes. So the deliberate process might
(31:02):
be 5 ladies coming over for dinner.
You bring these ingredients and I bring these ingredients and,
and, and we're going to cook. But what happens in that
intersection is going to be emergent.
But you, you tended to the, the creation process and then you,
you, you got what you got and itwas probably suitable.
(31:23):
But if you plan everything down to the T because you have this
predetermined outcome, then you're missing all kinds of
things. You're missing learning, you're
missing the capacity to adapt. You're missing the, the, the
intersectionality and the creativity and the engagement.
Because if everybody's in their own station, not talking to each
(31:44):
other and you're just listening to music, then then like at the
end of the night, you go home and you're like, well, I didn't
learn anything about your life. And, and so it, it changes the
feel. So you, you said systematized in
the word that we often use is mechanized.
Like did you become a cog in a machine?
And that's. So dehumanizing.
(32:05):
But nobody wants that. They want to be seen and heard
and witnessed and understood, and they want that relational
participatory nature of being present and in the world
together. And that's kind of everything.
Everything is doing that. Like in ecology, there's
(32:26):
exchange, there's learning, and then there's this mix of, of
like this polarity between my individual agency and, and my
belonging. And I can't belong if I am like,
forget you, I I don't have any responsibilities to anybody
(32:46):
here. That's not my problem.
That's under, that is not I, I'mnot paid enough to have to deal
with that or that is above my pay grade.
Things like that that we hear all the time.
Yeah. And that's not, that's not
caring. So one of the things we say when
we're cultivating these systems is that, you know, there's
there's an intentional process for cultivating, but the overall
(33:08):
context needs to be 1 of care needs to be 1, where we
recognize that we're in this together.
And sure, certain amount of competition is going to be
helpful. And, you know, like my daughter
and her violin used to go to theone competition that inspired
her to practice a lot, you know,so so we get better through a
kind of friendly competition. But if we let that competition
(33:31):
break the culture of care, then everybody loses.
Yeah. So true.
So for all of our listeners thatare female entrepreneurs or
small business owners, what would what would be something
you'd like to impart on them that you've learned in running
multiple companies, consulting and now with what you're
building with two other incredible women.
What would you say that there's one thing that you've learned
(33:53):
that you or some knowledge that you would like to have them take
some action around? I would say the fundamental
thing, and it is, is the piece that people don't do, which is
listen and knit things together.Oh.
Knit things together. Tend to the connective tissue in
(34:15):
your organization because if something isn't going right, if
somebody has some feeling something is off and you repair
that, the flow of information, the flow of resources, the flow
of like heartfelt inspiration isreactivated.
And that's the magical kind of tipping point where you get to
(34:36):
that space where you can do moretogether than you couldn't do
alone. Because if I can feel that sense
of connection and value and belonging, my heart can bring
exponential resource into the organization.
And, and getting there is, is about tending to those
(34:56):
relationships and listening to what's, what's flowing where the
energy is, you know, knowing what those, those that, that
those life cycles are like. We have them every single month,
like you said, you know, so, so like, what do those cycles look
like when you look at the organization that way?
What, what is, what is, what is building?
What is, is, is blossoming, whatis composting?
(35:19):
What needs to be like cleared out and reorganized?
Yeah. I think it's so important for
women here because there are seasons in our business, there
are cycles in our business. And a lot of times you're so
busy with our head down, trying to prove be productive, like
over action, everything that we're missing out on the entire
(35:40):
process in the journey that we're on and the ability to
collaborate. I mean, Carrie, this is one of
the reasons like, how did you come on here?
Because it's like, I want to collaborate with you.
I want to build the relationshipwith you.
Like this isn't just, you know, a sales pitch, right and are
getting to know each other. It was really like what, what
can we both bring to the world? What do we how can we support
each other? And I think that's the beauty as
(36:02):
you are designing businesses, ladies that are listening is
reach out, like connect and finda Society of women, a coven of
women, a network of women circlegeneration, like become part of
that as you develop your leadership skills.
And here's the crazy part, women, I love you all to pieces,
(36:22):
but sometimes you don't recognize your own powerful
leadership. You've been a mother, you've
LED, if you've been a wife, you've LED, if you've been a
friend, you've LED. Like there's this this belief
that we're we don't we have to model a different type of
leadership with who we are at our core as women, as leaders is
phenomenal. And I think that it's
(36:45):
beautifully demonstrated betweenCarrie and her, her women that
she works with and that she's Cofounded her company with.
Like you want a role model of how business looks differently.
I'm gifting to you right now Carrie and the circle generation
as a beautiful model of what's possible in terms of bringing
women together, collaborating across generations,
(37:06):
collaborating across cultures, collaborating across human
beings, male and female, and everybody in between.
Like you have this gift and I really invite you to connect
with Carrie on this. So Carrie, what are some of the
best ways to connect with you? Well, I'm, I'm happy to have
conversations with folks. And so there's, there's easy
ways to book like a 30 minute call and talk about what's,
(37:28):
what's possible and with with meand with my colleagues.
And so there's a lot of ways there.
There's, there's more of this kind of relational approach
wisdom in our podcast that's called alive and learning.
So we've, we've completed one season and we're working on the
(37:48):
the next one, which will be a larger telling and a different
story about how the money flows is what we're hoping.
And, and looking at the relational space, not just with
the, the, the people who are doing the social impact, but
also with, with the funders and who's funding it and how that
relationship is changing. So lots of ways to connect and,
(38:11):
you know, you can find us@circlegeneration.com.
We're up to all kinds of things.And we'd love to hear more about
what, what the listeners are up to.
And, and I, I really truly thinkthat the women are going to lead
differently and that that power is a the degenerative power is
different than the sort of raw power of doing.
(38:34):
And so there's there's just something in there.
We're not going to do it ourselves.
We're not going to do it exclusively, but, but I do think
we have a lot like you said to bring to the table as as leaders
that may look like a different way.
And inviting you to have explorethat different and explore how
(38:55):
your business grows and be OK that it might not look as
everybody else's. And that is maybe the model that
is being created by you. So I love this Carrie.
This has always been a fascinating conversation,
ladies. For those that are listening,
definitely connect with Carrie. Learn more about circle
generation. The link's going to be down in
the show notes wherever you're listening to.
(39:15):
So definitely click over there. If they've got their blog,
definitely we're going to tag the their podcast in here also.
So go listen to her podcast and and what they're up to.
And you know, know that there are so many different ways
businesses can be designed. You know what Carrie and her Co
founders are building generationally across
(39:37):
continents, anything as possiblewhen you're aligned with the
intention and you find the individuals, men or women, that
can bring your idea to life, right?
And just know that as a female leader and entrepreneur and a
business owner, you have the creative ability to shift or
fill gaps that may not look likewhat's out there.
(39:59):
And that's where we invite you to play.
So with that, Carrie, any last words of wisdom for our
listeners? I think I'm just thinking about
love and bringing that and keeping it present for ourselves
and for for everyone we're around because it feels good.
(40:20):
And the more that we can infuse that into what we're doing and
how we're doing it and who we'redoing it with, I think the the
more generative we can become. I love it.
Well, thank you, ladies, becauseif you if you're listening to
this podcast, you've heard her say a couple things about did
she really say that? Yes, she did.
There were moments. I hope you've been inspired that
(40:41):
you got a new creative look on your life and at your business.
And thank you again for listening to this episode of Did
she really say that? And we look forward to having
you come back and be here again,Carrie, in the future and and
you know, sharing with your nextevolution as you continue to
grow and what you're doing and what you're creating in the
world. So thank you for the blessing
you are. Thank you so much for having me.
(41:03):
Thank you for listening or watching this episode of Did She
really say that? If you enjoyed this episode,
press that subscribe button and give us a five star rating and.
To learn more about the create her business rewire.
We're pioneering the female business model for genuine
success and harmony. This is for self, family, wealth
and philanthropy. Because we know you're not just
building a bigger business, you're building a sustainable,
(41:25):
self aligned impact. Details will be down below in
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