Outcasts, Anime, and Overcoming Darkness with Tony Weaver Jr.

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Attention Welcome to the Different Spectrums podcast.
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(00:21):
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(00:43):
lawsuit free, So buckle up, havea good time, and join us as we
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again. Hey, we're back and we're live.

(01:04):
I'm Spencer, your Co host and ofcourse we have our license
clinic therapist Nas. Freshly shaved Doctor Nas, we're
on the head. Oh, I'm like what?
Do you think I was? About to say I thought your
face. Oh, I thought you were going to
say him another bitch. Always goes to Dicks. 5 seconds

(01:25):
into the podge, 5 seconds in. Wow.
Anywho. I've donned it on for that
specific. Exactly, that's why I'm
watching. You I love a good donned it on.
He's like, I did my research. All right, all right.
Anyhoover, don't take us too seriously.
Or dude, that's completely up toyou.
There you go. Also, don't forget to rob those

(01:45):
likes for us. We'd really appreciate it.
So today we have a special guest.
He is a storyteller and educatoron a mission to rewrite how
Black and minority youth see themselves in stories.
As the force behind Weird EnoughProductions, he created The
Uncommons web comic and wrote the award-winning graphic memoir

(02:07):
Weirdo. He's also amplifying youth
literacy through Nerds for Literacy, mobilizing the nerd
community to put books in hands,not just screens.
So please welcome Tony Weaver tothe show.
Hello, hello. That's a.
That's a great intro turn. Up.
Thank you all AI son. This is all.

(02:31):
This is all. AI.
This is all AI. We're not even real.
We're fake. I don't even know.
How often do you meet a Mexican Arab that doesn't?
It's not we're we're we're AI generated.
It's all. Just look like logic, so that's
fine. Any who?
What'd you say, Tony? I said it's all a simulation.
Oh, the matrix. We took the blue pill.
We did not take the red pin Viagra.

(02:54):
All right, so the moon show we're gonna be covering today.
We're gonna be doing Naruto Naruto.
There's some topics we're gonna be covering.
We're talking about capabilities.
We're gonna be talking about what it means to be strong.
We're also gonna be talking about support from our elders
and how that could affect us in the long run.
Also, we're gonna be talking about neurodivergence through

(03:16):
Naruto jutsu. So Nas, anything before we get
into the show? It's the first time in 35 years
I have no idea what the fuck we're doing.
It's fine. I got you.
Give me a give me a moment. Let me consult the sacred text.
1 moment. Are you about to baptize me?

(03:37):
He about to Oh no, he's going tothe books.
He got, well, he got a, he got abook.
Motherfucker. You know, I got dyslexia.
You got pictures? I I I had to go and and and get
the manga that the the scene youjust watched was pulled from OK,
here in the here in the sacred texts volume 10 of Naruto.

(03:58):
So to give it to to give you some context, I'm sure some
people will see it and be like, I know what's going on.
For the people that don't Narutoshow anime.
They're ninjas. They have powers.
OK, they're ninja. They call themselves ninjas, but
they're really more like Wizardsand Naruto.
You can they they can use different jutsu and jutsu fall
into three different categories.Ninjutsu, which is like

(04:21):
techniques, genjutsu, which are illusions.
So I can trap you in an illusion, make you like see
something. And then taijutsu, which is just
hands. We just gonna throw hands.
That's all taijutsu is. Taijutsu is just I'm gonna lay
hands on you. And in these in the world of
Naruto, you start as a ginning, you become a Chuning and then a

(04:45):
joning. And if you really want to try
hard, you could go a little above that.
But the kids in the show are getting and they are
participating in the exam required to be tuning.
So the tuning exams is happeningright now.
It's a test is going to be important for later.
And the tuning exams is a kind of cross village thing.

(05:06):
So multiple villages come together in order to go to
whoever's hosting the tuning exams.
There's a written portion and then there's a whole like thing
in a place called the Forest of death.
That's exactly what it sounds like where a significant amount
of the applicants just straight up don't make it out.
And then after that they have a a tournament style thing where

(05:27):
and what we see in the clip thatwe just watched are the
preliminaries of the tournament portion of the tuning exams
where a character named Gara, who at that time we have not
learned a lot about, he has Sam based powers.
He's kind of creepy. Gara is selected to fight a
character named Rockley and Rockley's whole thing is that he

(05:48):
cannot use ginjutsu or ninjutsu.So Gara, for example, he has a
sand armor, his sand armor, whenhe controls the sand and makes
it do things, that's a jutsu. His sand clone, like literally
making a clone of himself, that's a jutsu.
Rock Lee cannot do any of those things.
He's like, I got hands, that's all I got.

(06:12):
I got hands. So Rock Lee kind of gets put
into this fight and you would think that it'd be a pretty easy
L for him because Gara is like that.
He he he's built different. Gara is legitimately built
different. But Rock Lee makes this active
decision to not give up in the fight and instead of focusing on

(06:32):
the fact that he doesn't have ninjutsu or ginjutsu, we he we
find out that he's basically minMax into his Thai jutsu.
He's like, Oh no, I'm all in on this.
I have some amazing techniques and skills.
In the clip that we watched was a a bit accelerated.
They cut a few bits out, but Rock Lee has been trying to be a
ninja for his entire life and for a significant amount of his

(06:55):
childhood, he was told that since he didn't have genjutsu or
Tai jutsu, there was no point inhim trying in general.
But Guy Sensei, his teacher who pops up at the end, was like,
you know what, I believe in you,bro.
I'm a train you in a way that I can only train somebody that has
your limitations. And that's kind of what how he

(07:15):
how he learned the technique of that that he learned.
So he enters the fight, he trieshis hardest, he uses this
technique that puts his body under immense physical pain and
ultimately he loses the battle anyway.
And Gara at the end is actually moving to kill him.
In the tuning exams. You can't kill somebody.

(07:36):
It's either by surrender, by interference or by death.
The kid can kill a kid. It can happen.
And we give it to our middle schoolers and it's fine.
That is something that can happen.
Gara moves to kill him. Guy Sensei shows up, blocks the
blow. And Gara's like, why he failed?
He's weak. Why?
Why does he get to live? Why is he still allowed to be

(07:59):
here? He failed, he's weak.
He didn't accomplish the task. And Guy Sensei says that line
that is iconic to me. And that literally is in my
book, weirdo, because he is my student, because he is precious
to me. That's true.
That's true. That's your rundown.
That's your, that's your recap of the sacred text there.

(08:20):
Give you some context. That helps.
I'm glad that we did that beforeeveryone gets to see the scene
because this is this is the intro, so now they know what the
hell they're getting into. Oh, turn up.
Yeah, so now that that that wellhands sand some thugs, Yeah.

(08:40):
So it's there you go, everyone who ain't, you know, watching
Norte or. Naratu is Michael B Jordan.
Called Naratu. There you go.
That sounds Egyptian. All powerful spirit of Naratu
all. Powerful of Naratu.
Oh fuck, it's moon night. I'm going to I'm going to be

(09:03):
walking in New York City tomorrow and there's going to be
a black man in purple garb yelling at me about Naratu.
Have you heard of Naratu? Yes, I have.
Well, I'm super excited to get into this.
Love the energy, love the vibe, love everything that you do.
Let's actually watch the scenes together and let's get into the

(09:26):
podcast. Woop woop.
Woop woop. Say whoop, whoop, whoop.
Whoop. Whoop, there it is.
You did it. You fucking did it.
I might as well go last. Let's do

(09:54):
this. It worked like a charm.
I knew if I said I want to be last, I would be next.
It is a form of reverse psychology.
That's my student. Stay on your toes, Lee.

(10:24):
All right, then, begin leap Hurricane.

(10:53):
Wow, the sand. He's using it as a shield.
He's not doing it. It'll come to Gaara's defense
without his doing anything. How is he doing it?
He's not moving a muscle. He's only using taijutsu.

(11:14):
Why doesn't he get some distanceand use ninjutsu?
Lee has no ninjutsu or ginjutsu.Skills at all.

(11:35):
Lee has only his tie to to rely on.
All right, Lee. Take him off.
Really, really basic training equipment.
Totally cool. Now I will be able to move
freely. Guy, you are too much.

(11:56):
All right. Yes Sir, so fast.
Amazing. God has been hurt.

(12:21):
Impossible. That's incredible.
I've never seen anyone that fast.

(12:52):
I don't get it. Is he made of sand or what?
No, it's like he's wearing a suit of armor.
This guy's too much. He's got armor now.
Well, is that all? My speed will not be enough.
But maybe with the Lotus. That's right.

(13:17):
Lee, What are you waiting for? Primary loaded.

(13:45):
It is over. I got him.
No, I don't believe it. Is he?
That guy isn't dead, is he? What?
What the and empty shell? But how?

(14:09):
When you closed your eyes to pray, that's when he did it.

(14:59):
None. Lee's smiling, He's running for
his life, but he's still smiling.
The Leaf Village Lotus blooms twice, but no guy you didn't is
able to open the 8 inner gates and use the hidden Lotus.

(15:21):
That's correct. This match is over for you.
It is over, one way or another. The third gate, Gate of life

(15:50):
open. He's.
Faster than ever. Hide behind that sand armor
again, eh? His muscles are.

(16:22):
Tearing themselves apart. Oh.
Man, are you watching Neji? I was saving this ace in the
hole to use against you. He's in trouble.

(17:22):
Sad carbon, now you die. But why he failed?

(17:47):
Why save him? He's my student.
And also because he is precious,hey.
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(18:27):
And we're back again, spider style.
Spider. Oh, that's a fat spider.
It's a big one. We're back and we're live.
We're extremely live. Yeah.
I can't think of nothing. Only thing I can think of, my
last time before there was like,Nas, why is your panda sideways?
I was like, what are you talkingabout?

(18:49):
He's like you panda behind you sideways.
And I was like, oh shit, it is, yeah.
They just were like, I'm keepingit that way.
I'm going to be real with you. I had this new guy come in for
therapy, military guy, and I waslike, I don't think the PANDAS,
the move. I was like, I'm going to take
this shit down and then I put itback up sideways.
That's what it is. Fucked up a lot of kids this
week. Now everybody who watches is

(19:11):
going to be like, you ruined everything I.
Know. Show can't watch it you're.
Going to be thrown off all right.
That's why our views are down. All right, So, Tony, welcome to
the show. Appreciate it.
We really do. Yeah.
So we would love to know, being weirdo, what does that mean to
you? Yeah, so it's actually funny.

(19:35):
I was having a conversation withsomeone today and I was talking
to them about Weirdo and one of the one of the pieces of
critique that they gave me as they were like, I don't see a
lot of weirdness in the character, even though the book
is called weirdo. And I was like, oh, you know,

(19:56):
that's, that's interesting. I buy that.
I'll I'll, I'll take that. I'm actually going to sit with
that and think about it for a little bit.
I think for me, I define weirdness as a universal thing.
Everybody is weird. Like being weird just means
being in opposition to the norm.And I don't think normal exist.
So you. Like, if you look at it through

(20:18):
that lens, everybody is weird insome capacity.
One of my like deepest belief systems is that normalcy is a
prison that we all try to collectively trap ourselves in
and we think that we're doing itfor the better of each other.
Like what is normal? Normal is what everybody else
says is normal. But if you're trying to be
normal and I'm trying to be likeyou, 'cause you're normal.

(20:41):
And I got trying to be like me because I'm normal.
None of us are actually achieving normalcy.
We're all just trying to scrunchourselves the closest into like
a square shape that we can. And I think weirdness is is
deviation from that when. Did you realize you were weird?

(21:01):
They had to tell me, man, I grewup in Atlanta, GA.
They'll get on you real quick. They'll get on you real quick.
Let me tell you, you ain't got a.
What you want to what? How did they make you feel?
Do you need me to? Do you need some favor right
now? How did they make you feel?
My listen, my, my, my, my therapist, he'd be, he'd be on
me. He'd be like, so is this 14 year
old Tony trying to trying to express some things?

(21:25):
I'm like, honestly, yeah, that guy controls my life way too
much. But like, like my, my hat, for
example, everybody's like, why the hat?
And I'm like, because I started making content during COVID in,
in Atlanta. If they're going to roast you,
the first thing that they're going to talk about is your
hairline. And it was COVID, so I couldn't
get my hair cut. So I didn't want the Internet to

(21:47):
show up and collectively roast my hairline because this, the
place where I grew up, it's, it's the wild, Wild West.
You walk outside, there are two boys.
You hear the Western music, you hear the no, no, no, no, no, no.
And the tumbleweed like rolls byand they walk up and they boy,

(22:08):
you feel like it immediately. It it, it, it's, it's, it's like
that. So I found out that was weird at
a really young age. I was in the South that other
people weren't inherently into. I also look at the world a
little differently. And I don't even mean that in a
like some transcendental super intellectual sense.
I just didn't understand social norms.
And in many ways I still don't. I don't understand why people

(22:29):
behave the way that they behave.Like I remember as a kid
thinking to myself, like I walk down the street.
So I was like, how you doing? And I'm like, honestly, not too
good. I'm having some trouble with
blah blah, blah and blah blah, blah.
And the person like keeps walking.
And as a kid I'm like, why wouldyou ask me how I was doing if

(22:50):
you did actually want to hear about how I was?
I need to talk to someone and and stuff like that.
It's like, why, why, Why ask me how I'm doing if you don't
actually care about about how I'm doing.
I think as a kid I was very hypersensitive to the ways in
which we're expected to perform or face consequences, and I

(23:13):
could not perform. I'm like, I have no idea what's
going on at all. And I tried to get things from
stories and that help in some ways, but it also didn't help in
some ways because my father, Tony Weaver, senior, great guy,
not a perfect guy. My dad would be like, my son

(23:33):
needs to read. So I'm taking him to the
bookstore. And I would go in the bookstore
and I would find books and my dad would be like, my son's
reading great. But my dad would not do is look
and see the explicit content advisory on the manga that I was
reading. So at 12 years old, I'm reading
like Getchi Haram manga that should have been wrapped in

(23:56):
plastic in the border. And you read those books and
those books. It's like, well, how do you get
the girl to like you? Well, you stare at her from far
away for a couple of chapters and then you profess your love
to her in some public, open manner.
And she says yes because you're an amazing guy.
And then? Is this not how you do it?

(24:18):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yes, because you're an amazing
guy. And then while you're trying to
make things right with her, other equally beautifully women
appear and cannot keep their hands off of you.
That is what I was told. This is what is in the sacred
texts. So as a 12 year old I'm like.
So this is how I attract the attention of the.

(24:39):
Lady. Oh my God.
And that ain't how you do that. So yeah, that's a real long
answer to your question. But I found out is is a short
answer. How did I, how did, how did I
know I was weird? I found out, they told.
Me. They told you.
I'm not going to lie. I heard this whole story and I
took offense because you know, you think you can read and you

(24:59):
think you're better than me. I don't appreciate it.
There were pictures in there. There were pictures.
Oh, there was. Scantily.
Scantily, it's. Women didn't catch that one.
I just caught that. Hey, what you reading about?
I don't. Know you read more than 10
minutes. You got by you so bitch, get out

(25:20):
of here. How do you get through the
plastic so. Fast.
Oh my God this is wild weirdo. Love it man.
Also kind of traumatic. Little bit.
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, welcome to the team.
Did you find it like, did you find it healing for yourself to
write about yourself? I think it made me go back and

(25:45):
look at younger me in a more kind light, like it made me be
nicer to myself because for me, I think something I'm I'm really
open about the fact that I attempted suicide when I was
younger. That's a weirdo covers like I
attempted suicide when I was in the 7th grade.
That's something that happens inthe book in a really tasteful

(26:06):
way. And we address it in a way that
makes it appropriate, but not like kind of indulgent in the
darkness, if that makes sense. And for me, when I went back to
write that time, it's like, well, if you're going to read a
book about a character, you haveto like kind of have this
connection with a character. And when I thought back about 14
year old me to like about like 1312 year old me, I'm like, I

(26:31):
hated that kid. Why?
Why were you like this? Why did you act like this?
Why couldn't you just like conform and comply?
Like dog, was it that hard for you to just play it cool?
Jesus, Like that was how I thought about.
That's how I felt by myself. So I go and I write this book.
And if you want the book to be compelling, you have to kind of

(26:54):
not hate your protagonist. And going and writing a story in
which I have to look at my past and be like, you were just doing
the best that you could with theinformation that you had at the
time. Bro, you were over simulated a
lot of the time. You got dropped into a lot of
social situations that nobody taught you how to navigate and

(27:15):
you were just expected to know how things work.
And when you did it, they were angry at you for not knowing.
Even though the system is ever changing and the concept of
what's cool, it is always shifting and moving around.
So it was cathartic for me to goback and learn to embrace and
accept that kid. Cuz I think for a really long

(27:35):
time it was like, Tony, you tried to kill yourself.
And I'm like, yeah. And that kid was weak, man.
I know what's wrong with that kid.
Jesus. Why would you let them do that
to you? Why would you let them talk to
you like that? You could stand up for yourself
at all, bro, come on. When I was in high school, that
was how I felt, and even moving into college, that was how I

(27:57):
felt. It was like that man had a lapse
in discipline. I don't know what was going on.
He almost messed up the whole mission.
But it's fine. I'm here now and I am never
going to be weak like that kid was.
What's the thought that I had for a really long time.
But as I got older and expressing writing the book, I
had to go back and be like a man.

(28:17):
That's you. That's a that's a part of you,
and that's also the kids that you want to help.
You got to be able to see them for where they're at, and I
think the book was super helpfulfor that.
Do you mind sharing because you shared that that's pretty
intimate. Did you end up seeking therapy
or or did you have to get hospitalized for that attempt or

(28:41):
or did you get therapy later on medication?
How? How have you navigated this shit
on your own? There was no hospitalization.
And one thing for me, it's like consistent like in the book and
also just like across any talking that I do.
I never explicitly say how I tried because kids be listening

(29:03):
and I don't need anybody to follow my bad example but I
attempted it didn't work. And I literally like went to
school the next day and I'm in school like dissociating like
crazy. I'm like, I can't even do that

(29:23):
right. Damn it.
I'm so upset. And my I had an older cousin who
was going to the same school as me and we had a conversation
where she could tell that something was off with me.
And I think we were like talkingto like we're going back and
forth and she's trying to get meexplaining what's going on.
And I'm like, bro, I like, I, I don't even want to be here.

(29:45):
And she's like, do you not feel what you don't want to be at
school? Like bro, I don't want to be
here. Like I do not want to be here.
And man, I tried. Why am I still here?
And my cousin went and told her dad, her dad called my dad, my
dad came and got me out of school.
And when I got home my mom was on the phone with the suicide

(30:08):
hotline in tears trying to figure out what resources she
can get me. And literally the next day I was
at an office. They were asking me a bunch of
questions about self harm and are there any guns in the house
and all of those things. They recommended that I stay out
of school for a bit and my mom got me an appointment with a

(30:33):
with a black child psychologist relatively quickly.
His name was Doctor Quarles. As far as I know he's still
practicing, but I ended up in his office relatively quickly
and I think at first I was seeing him like every other week
and then it ended up like once amonth.
I think it went on. I like that for about a year and

(30:57):
that was kind of the on ramp that I or that that that was
kind of the the the support thatI had.
Nice. OK, You good?
Making sure you're good. I need to do a little checking.
You good brother. I'm all good.
I'm just making sure you're not dipping into any, you know,
weird stuff. If you know OK, you're good, all
right. The the, the, my, my curse mark

(31:18):
is coming out. It's like, no, I'm fine.
I'm all, I'm all good. My demons.
Thank you for sharing that, man.That'll actually help a lot of
ton, ton of people. And besides that, I'm just glad
you're here. I'm glad that you're I'm going
to be funny. I'm glad that your dumb ass
couldn't get it done. Yeah, I'm glad that you fucked
that up too. Yeah, I've been there and many
of my clients have been there. It's a son bitch.

(31:40):
So I'm glad you're here, brother.
I'm glad to be here. I think I get the privilege to
help people and I, I think if, when I look back at my
experiences, there's something that's that I, there's something
that I appreciate about the darkness that I was able to

(32:01):
experience because you, you see kids, you work with kids and
like, obviously I'm not a therapist, right?
Like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not alicensed therapist therapeutic.
But there are people who have young, they, they have young
kids that they care about that are in the dark and they're
like, all I want to do is get them out, man.
Like I, I don't know what to do.And I'm like, I know that

(32:24):
darkness very well. I know that area very well.
I know exactly where the pit is.I know where you can get lost
and stuck. I know, I know that terrain very
well. So it's like I navigated this
really dark place. But what it feels like my

(32:45):
purpose is it's a turn around and go back into that darkness
for the people that are still there.
And I think that's how I think about my writing and how I think
about my work as a creative. I'm constantly putting on my
hazmat suit. Where are you going?
There's still someone in there. I'm putting on my like fire
suit. Where you going?
There's still someone in there. And when I can't breathe, I'm

(33:08):
going to come back out and I'm going to breathe.
But as soon as I can, I got to go back because I can't.
I can't stomach the idea of someone being stuck in there and
nobody's like coming for them. I got to I got to keep going
back there until we get them out.
And eventually you reach a pointwhere like people know how to

(33:35):
help their friends that are in there.
I think that's one of my favorite things about weirdo.
It's like if you're, if you're struggling with it, that's one
thing if you're like you're struggling with your mental
health and self esteem, but if you're not, the book is going to
give you tips about the people that are.
So there's going to be somebody that it's in there and I don't
know that they're in there. I'm only one dude.
I'm somewhere playing Pokémon cards.
I have no idea what's going on, but you do because you're there

(33:59):
and now you can go in there and help.
And that's what I feel like as acreative, it's my responsibility
to do everything that I write, everything that I make.
I'm like, bro, stories are a life or death for me, which
every creative doesn't look at it in that way.
Some people are like, listen, this is just a fun thing for me
to do and I'm like, that's great.

(34:20):
There's validity and all of those points of view.
But for me, when I sit down to write, power of life and death
is in that pen. So it's very important to me
that what I'm writing and what I'm making is going to be the
thing that helps you make it outof the dark because that's what
kind of brought me to the medium.
Even the scene that we just watched, I saw this scene after

(34:45):
my grandmother passed away and also post suicide attempt.
So for me feeling extremely weak, feeling like I couldn't
add up, I needed to see that. I remember like plain as a
sitting on the carpet in my parents room seeing this seeing

(35:05):
this scene play out. And my grandma, her nickname for
me was Precious. So but he pops up and he's like,
because he's my student and because he's precious to me,
that means something to me, man.And I try to write stuff that
means something to people in thesame way I guess.

(35:29):
We're going to take a little bitof pause for a second.
Yeah, we're going to take a pause.
That was intense, brother. I, we, we have people that get
very emotional, very passionate on the pot all the time.
I appreciate everything that youjust said.
I appreciate the martyrdom and kind of what you're doing, but
you have this deep passion, but also responsibility.

(35:52):
Hopefully that you're seeking consultation on this too and
making sure that you're not taking all the responsibility.
But I, I know that pressure. I've also lost some students
too, and that's a bitch. But make sure you're being
always kind to yourself. Love it, love it, love it.
I loved it and loved to see the realness in you.
Holy shit that was fantastic. You just gained a fan for life.

(36:13):
I'm. Grateful.
Homie, you was like, you were like fucking family.
Now I can't wait to tell people about who you are.
Now. This is I did not see this
coming, Spence. I don't know if you saw that
coming. That authenticity is all about
what this podcast is about. Much love and respect for you
and everything that you're doing.
I don't give a shit if you don'tdo anything the rest of your
life. Just the kindness that you

(36:34):
showed us today and then walkingus through some funny bits, you
minus all the life saving in thewriting is awesome, phenomenal.
I'm glad you're here, brother. Yep, glad you're here.
Don't give a shit who you what you do.
That realness and rawness is what you probably used to get
bullied about. The preciousness, all the stuff,
but that's the reason why you'resaving lives.

(36:55):
So fucking love it, my guy. Love it, love it.
I just want to guess you up. I'm going to have everyone make
sure they take a deep breath with us.
Let's let's do a soft pivot spent.

(37:16):
You got any good shit for us? You got you got.
I don't know. I don't want to run away from a
good moment, but then also I want to get, I want to go back
to the joy as well too. But that was fantastic, my guy.
Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about nerds for
literacy. Yeah.
Right. My harebrained scheme.
Yes. My my fever dream.

(37:37):
Idea I'm a fucking con man. You want to see my pyramid
scheme? And I get the money.
It's a scheme in like a good way.
It's a. Good scheme.
There are good schemes out there, right?
You get this kid to sign up. That was a good scheme.
And that kid signs up 10 more kids.
And that kid signs up 10 more kids.
This kid learns how to read. And then this kid learns how to

(37:59):
read. And then this kid learns how to
read. Oh yeah, you.
They help their friends read andoh.
Tell me a big word, yes? But you're only reading my shit.
That's all. You can read my shit.
I mean, that's how that's how the United States education
system treats the Canon. And that's why literacy rates
are as low as they are because it's what you just said.

(38:20):
But you can only read what I tell you to read.
That's right. I want to get you in trouble,
trouble friendship, whether it'sbear.
That's some political ass shit too, right?
And there's the reasons why theydo that.
They keep a lot of people dumb. And you got fucking McGraw and
or whatever that company is. It's the only shit.
It's the fucking system. System was made on purpose to
keep people dumb. Nerds for literacy?

(38:42):
Yeah, I'll tell you a bit about the initiative and I'll tell you
about how it's my harebrained scheme, and that'll play into
some of the education stuff thatyou just mentioned because I
have this core assumption and I think it's going to play out in
a in a positive way. So Nerds for Literacy is a
charity initiative that I'm currently running.
We're trying to raise $100,000 to donate 10,000 free books to
kids in underfunded schools and libraries.

(39:04):
So over 35% of schools in the USdon't have a school librarian.
Just in general, they don't havea school librarian.
There are thousands of schools that don't have libraries at
all. US reading rates are the lowest
that they've been ever. Like the the, the youth literacy
rate is the lowest. That is the lowest that it's

(39:26):
been. And also literacy resources like
the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and things like the
Ready to Learn program are either having their budgets cut
or they're be completely removedand shut down.
South to me as someone who, likeyou just saw stories literally
save my life. That's why I write stories
because I feel like they're lifesaving.

(39:47):
And the idea of a kid not havingaccess to a book that's going to
save their life, whether that's mine or someone else's, that
wrecks me. I don't like that that keeps me
awake at night and. For me as a creator, the UN
Commons was my first book and wedid the UN Commons on web, on

(40:08):
Webtoon. We did some, we did some print
versions and the UN Commons was independently made and I thought
it was a great book. But since it was independently
made, even though we were movingthousands of units, I couldn't
get it into a school or a library very easy.
Librarians weren't really payingattention to it.
And it's because a lot of the way that kids get books is via

(40:31):
gatekeepers of the publishing industry, and gatekeepers of the
publishing industry are hyper targeted towards traditionally
published books. So if you're a librarian, you
probably attend the American Library Association National
Conference. Ala is an amazing organization.
Librarians do great work. The American Library Association
National Conference is normally sponsored by the large

(40:54):
publishers, and the large publishers show up and over the
course of one weekend give out thousands of books for free.
They say, hey, librarians, I gotthis book coming out in spring.
It'll be great for your middle schoolers here.
You get 1, you get 1, you get 1.It's like Oprah, everybody gets
a book. So when librarians get back to

(41:16):
their libraries and they go, well, I got limited budgets.
What books are coming out this year or this season that I can
get for my kids? Well, I was just at Ala and one
of the big three publishers gaveme a free book, invited me to a
breakfast where I got to eat some amazing food and hear the
author of this book talk. And then I got to sit in a, in a

(41:38):
line for an autograph and talk to the author of this book for 5
minutes. Guess what book you're going to
buy? Not the young Commons, I tell
you that it's not the it's the Commons.
It's not, it's not going to be the one that you buy.
So I said I got to do traditional ublishing just
because the system is set U in away that you only know how to

(41:59):
hear voices that come from certain places.
O I write weirdo. Weirdo gets published by
McMillan, third largest publisher in the world.
McMillan says we rock with you, bro.
We about to put you on. I'm at Ala, I'm at NCTE, I'm at
every major conference in which the gatekeepers of this space
star. I'm doing I'm doing professional

(42:20):
development sessions with booksellers and librarians.
I get invited to libraries and doing school visits.
McMillan hooks me up. They're like, listen, we believe
in you and we believe that this book can go out there and weirdo
goes out there and we do really well.
We we sell out of our first printing in less than six weeks.

(42:42):
We're moving into our third printing right now.
And I was tracking the numbers. I'm like, we're actually doing
really well. We're on track to be a New York
Times bestseller. But then the New York Times
bestsellers list comes out and there are books that sold less
than me that are on the list, but my book ain't on the list.
When I go to my agent, I'm like,what gives?
What's going on? We did really well.

(43:03):
And they say The New York Times is not strictly sales.
It's a curated list. So sales play a role.
But someone somewhere with some formula that we don't understand
makes a choice about what books are New York Times bestseller
worthy. And that broke my brain a little

(43:24):
bit because if I wanted to get Weirdo made into a show, the
first thing they're going to sayis, well, did it hit the
bestsellers list? If a librarian is picking, well,
what books are the most popular,whether they hit the bestsellers
list, When the Scholastic book fair is like, what do we need to
keep our eye on in order to in order to distribute and have in
the book fairs? And they're like distributable

(43:44):
hit the bestseller's list. So when Barnes and Noble is
like, well, what book are we going to have at the front of
the store when you walk in whereyou don't even have to go look
for it, it's right there. Did it hit the bestsellers list?
All of these kind of behavioral things, these kind of social
proofs that determine whether a book does well or not are not
actually connected to the sales of the book.

(44:05):
They are connected to how some random person that I don't know
feels about me and the importance of my story on any
given day. And in a world in which less
than 5% of published authors areblack, and in the context of me,
my my publisher, they're the third largest publisher in the
world. I love them.
Weirdo was the first graphic novel by a a black male writer

(44:27):
that they published since the year I was born.
They don't see our stories enough to know what to do when
they get there. And the Uncommons was kind of my
like the Uncommons did really well.
Like we like we literally made millions of dollars off of that
series. Like I, I can't call it a
failure at any capacity. It's great, but Weirdo is my way

(44:50):
of going. OK, we're going to try to go
above and beyond. I'm going to play the game with
you. And what I found out was that
you started playing the game andthey decided they could change
the rules whenever they want. And they got me really upset
because I'm like, what about allthe amazing stories that don't
get the fit within this very linear frame of curation that
you have this window that's moving all the time?

(45:12):
But also, what about the kids that need those stories?
How do they get access to them? So I think an additional part of
Nerds for Literacy is like we'recombating the literacy crisis,
but also we are shifting the waythat book distribution at scale
happens. It is a dream of mine to get to
a place where we can say they are kids that are in need.

(45:34):
They need stories like this. I don't care if you're indie,
trad pub, if your publisher actually put marketing dollars
behind you or not, if some random dude at the New York
Times was out of your worth being on the list or not.
I don't care about none of that.If the book is good and it's
creating impact, we have a way to get it into kids hands.

(45:55):
And that's some, I think that's the harebrained scheme part of
it. We're doing something really
positive. We're providing resources, but
we're also, I think there's a potential for this to be a wave
that kind of democratizes the way that writers and stories can
make it into kids hands outside of this weird monopoly that the

(46:17):
school and library system has. Yeah, have you seen the film
American Fiction? Before Oh have I?
Oh, have I, Jeffrey? Wright What a what a guy.
Love, love his acting. But yeah, that that's just one
of those films that really teaches you, well, it teaches, I
should say, teaches other peoplethat you really have to play the

(46:41):
game. And unfortunately, a lot of
people in the black community have to dumb themselves down in
order to actually sell or do whatever like certain publishers
want you to do. Yeah.
And that goes for a lot of things, but especially in that
film, which was fantastic. But yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

(47:03):
Go ahead, go. Ahead, I'm sorry.
No, no, no. I think like I wanted to make
stories to support kids, and then I found out, well, if you
want to get the story to the kids, there's an entirely
different monster that you have to navigate.
And that's the publishing industry, but also the US
education system, specifically the US literacy education

(47:23):
system, which Nos goes back to what you were saying earlier
about. Office.
The way that the the way that our our reading education system
was designed. Yeah, yeah, you just paused
right there. I was like, oh shit.

(47:44):
Is he about to say something else or is he thinking?
Oh, no, I was leaving room for you.
Oh, OK. Yeah, Paul.
Yeah, No, he just paused. I'm like this motherfucker, is
he having a psychotic break? You know what?
He just tosses all of this. Come on, just fuck it.
Just fuck it, right? I'm a white man.

(48:05):
Tony. No, not there.
He's a ginger, y'all. He's a ginger from Colorado
from. Colorado.
OK, Well, you know Colorado. Oh, rocket top is rocket.
Is rocket top the Rocky Mountains?
No, that's Tennessee. Rockies.
That's Colorado, fool. Well, whatever.

(48:27):
I'm not a geologist, A. Geologist.
A geographer I know. Geologist.
There's bones in them. You got anything else for us
man? It's great question so far.
Yeah, I'd love to have this conversation of just what is it
about nerd culture and also black culture that just mesh so

(48:51):
well together? I I've always wanted to have
this conversation. I think it's for me, I think
it's a lot of out, it's outcast looking, right, because a lot of
the time people looked at nerds and they're like, oh, how can
you get away from me, right. And then the same could go for
black culture. And I just think that they mesh
so well together. And then sometimes when you mesh

(49:15):
those two together, you get, youget just, you get really bullied
on both sides then, right? Cuz then on one side you get to
just be nerdy and have all this fun.
But then on the other side, theylook at your skin color and they
go, we don't like you for that. What's your take on just black

(49:38):
culture and nerd culture just meshing so well together?
Well, for me, I think it's it's a partially that sense of
otherness, but I also think it'sagency.
There was a point in time where the concept of being able to
drink from the same water fountain was just as outrageous
as being able to go outside and see a dragon.

(50:00):
So if you look at it through that lens, it's like black.
Imagination to me is like the building block of black joy.
You imagine circumstances under which you can be happy before
those circumstances become reality.
So nerddom to me is imagination Incarnate.
If I walk up to you and I say there's a dragon outside, you

(50:23):
go, how big is it? What color are the scales?
Can it fly? Is it one of the fire breathing
Dragons? Or is it kind of just chilling
with a hoard of treasure? I I think nerddom is imagining
whether we're like in a Guild about to go, what is it?

(50:43):
Oh, I know what it is. Whether we're in a Guild about
to go fight like a manticore or something.
I had to dig deep for that when I was like, what's other than
dragon? That manticore Groot slang there
we. Go.
Or if I'm in the future and I'm a robot that holds a hard drive
that could save the rest of humanity.
This ability to imagine, I thinkthat's crucial to the Black

(51:08):
experience. I think that's what moves Black
culture forward. For like the entirety of our
existence as people. Imagination has been a core part
of our circumstances. It's been a core thing that
drives what we do and the way they were able to influence
culture. So I think that's where a big
overlap happens. Have you dealt with being as an

(51:31):
adult nerd and black? As an influencer?
Being a nerd and black because we know most of the influencers
are are fair skinned. I think I try to just stay in my
lane. OK, There are certain there are
certainly systemic things at play and I'm like, this is true.
But I get online to make content.
I can't turn on my camera and say come with me while I get

(51:53):
ready to go to Starbucks and it like blow up.
I can't do that. That's just not, I do not have
that privilege, but that's fine.I spend much less time looking
at what other people are doing and more time just talking about
the stuff that I want to talk about because the I will toot my
own home for a little bit. I think that when I'm in my own
lane and I'm operating in the center of my zone of genius and

(52:15):
fully embracing my confidence, no one else can make what I
make. So like I'm like, I'm not really
concerned about what y'all are doing or if you're doing the
same thing that I would be doingbecause I don't think you're
capable of doing the same the same thing that I do.
It's actually a point of time When I started making content,
the people were like, why are you rhyming all the time?
And I'm like, so that it's a challenge, that's all I'm going

(52:38):
to do. The challenge myself.
I'd actually get really bored ifI just got in front of the
camera and spoke regularly because speaking, especially
public speaking, is something that comes really easy for me.
The rhyming, it makes it feel a little bit more rhythmic, like
it makes it more fun for me. I'm like the engaging
conversations that we're having or conversations that I'm so
well versed in, They don't feel engaging for me unless I make a

(53:02):
game out of it. That's how that's how in my lane
I am for nerds. For literacy I did a parody of
the Wicked song Defying Gravity called Supporting Literacy and I
had post it notes with scribbledand green marker pasted and

(53:24):
taped all over my body as a substitute for a green skin.
And I didn't have a Black Hat, so I taped down one of the horns
on my hat and tilted it to the side and then put a do rag on so
they would pop up like a like a witch hat.
And I remember doing this to be like, no one else is, no one

(53:47):
else is going to do this. No one else is doing this.
So So what happened? What what made you like this
man? It was a vaccines.
I'm sorry. It was it was a Naruto that Dang
that Dang Rock Lee. It got me a good fucking.
Name amazing trying to take overAmerica.
I tell you the motherfuckers that.

(54:08):
Damn it that's pure sarcasm. I swear to God, I'm not racist.
I know. I'm just saying that's what
white people are saying. It's Vince.
Wrong, that is. That is a narrative that I've
heard. See.
See, I know I speak if the truthlearn from me.

(54:34):
I'm an idiot, OK? So Speaking of public speaking,
like, what age did you find out that you were actually good at
public speaking? I took a gamble in the ninth
grade. I had a teacher name is Hicks.
Miss Hicks gave us an assignment.
I didn't do the assignment. We were supposed to write it

(54:55):
down and also do a presentation.Like the assignment was a
presentation, but you could readfrom your notes.
And I didn't do the assignment, so I didn't have notes.
And I sat in the back of class while everybody else went
formulating my point or my idea,seeing if I could get it to a
point of fidelity where I could thread the needle and speak off
the cuff for three minutes. In a way that's convincing
enough for her to think that I actually memorized this speech

(55:18):
and just didn't do my notes. And I did it and I got a perfect
score. She was really impressed.
I said, oh, interesting. But I think I get it.
For my mom, though. My mom's a first generation
college student. She's worked in public education
for over 30 years and has ended up in a lot of rooms or her

(55:39):
intelligence, this question because she's black.
So my mom for my for my mom excellence has never been an
option. I she always has to show up the
best in each room that she walksin and she works a lot.
So when I get home from school, my mom's on the phone and I'm
sitting doing my homework and mymom's on the phone and she's

(55:59):
taking this phone call, She's taking this phone call.
She's she's moderating meetings,she's having very important
political and business conversations.
And I'm just a kid soaking all of that up.
So my vernacular and my leadership style, I kind of
learn from my mom via proxy because I heard her speaking all

(56:21):
of the time. He got parents teaching them all
the good stuff. He got the dad taken under my
books. I got my dad doing.
I got teaching me how to like con people, how to shit, you
know, shout out to dad. You know this is how you get
them, son. What?
I mean, you could use that for acareer in sales.

(56:41):
Go work on Wall Street. I hear they scare people all the
time. To be fair, I went into a career
where all I do is manipulate people into loving themselves,
so trust me, I'm using the skills, I'm using the skills.
You love yourself, don't you? Yeah.
Gotcha. Yeah, my therapist be, we'll be
having a conversation sometimes and I'll be like, I see what
you're doing. You know what, Tony?

(57:04):
You know what's fun is I ask, I'll ask clients.
You see, you know what I'm doingright?
They're like, Nah, well, you don't, you don't see what I'm
doing right? And Nah.
And so my boy go. He told me today, he said he
went to his wife yet last week and he said he trapped me.
She's like, what do you mean? And then she explained it and
she's like, yeah, therapist willdo that.
They'll trap the shit out of youin your own words.

(57:24):
It's my favorite thing that's. Why I'm a I'm a, I'm a tricky
client because I'll, I'll see her from all the way.
I'll be like, oh hey, oh, oh, hey, oh hey, not you ain't going
to. Get inside my brain, white
woman. Sorry.
You better watch yourself. I had, dude, I did a

(57:47):
presentation with the military the other day, all the cadets
and I guess after I left, right,the Lieutenant Colonel, right
high up in the military, I was cheesing and making fun of him,
trying to psychologically break him down based on some stuff he
said, right. He said some funny stuff and he
tells them all the cadets. He can't get into my mind that
some bitch and right and he talks all this shit.

(58:08):
I'm like, I already was in there.
I scared him into saying that. I'm already knowing.
I'm already knowing. He thinks I know.
Bro I was in there. Love it all right.
Also it sounded funny when I said I love trapping people.
That was kind of weird. I mean, you could just
abbreviate. It used to be like I love

(58:29):
trapping. Put some Migos on it there.
You go love selling those drugs.Here we go.
We sell dopamine over here, my friend.
We sell dopamine. One of these days, there is
going to be one. One of these days I will find a
cohesive way to talk about how growing up in Atlanta, GA, in
many ways one of the prominent rap capitals of the United

(58:51):
States, almost every productive thing that I do in my brain is
coded as like trapping. It's it's like, wait, what are
you doing? I'm in the lab.
I'm mixing up. Let me cook.
Let me cook. All right.

(59:12):
Exactly. Exactly.
I'm in love with the Coco and. Then I walk out with like a a
piping hot manuscript and they're like, man.
A manuscript. Oh, that's a thing for the book.
That's right. I'm slow.
It's like manuscript. Who are you trying to shoot?
That's a that's something else. Oh, my God.

(59:33):
Sorry. What are those called?
Manifestos. I'm sorry.
Oh, I see, I see. I see, sorry.
When we were marketing weirdo, Icalled it a mental health
manifest. So my publicist was like, don't
do that. Don't do that, though.
I was just like, don't hey, hey,hey, don't do that.
Don't do that. That's that's a no, no word in
the marketing industry. Please don't, please don't.

(59:55):
You'll get in the news, but for something totally.
Different. It's the little red book.
What is this? I'm sorry.
Go ahead. OK so so is Rockley your
favorite manga character ever? Anime character?
Who is your favorite anime slashmanga character?

(01:00:16):
Who is your black Jesus I. This guy named Kamina from a
show called Gridlocka that I rock, that I rock with pretty
heavy. He's a he's a Big Brother figure
and communist catch phrase is hehas a character named Simone.
He's a mentor to. And what he tells Simone is you

(01:00:41):
think that you're, you think that like you're a failure, that
you can't succeed. And the reason that you're
messing up is because you're listening to yourself.
Stop listening to yourself because you don't believe in you
don't believe in you believe in the me that believes in you
because you believe in me, right?
And I believe in you. So believe in the me that
believes in you. And I'm like, wow, he got him,

(01:01:06):
trapped him. Got him.
I'm in love with the Coco. I'm sorry.
It's like he, he, he, he, he gothim.
I think. I think that message, that
message is really important because obviously that evolves
throughout the course of the show into like believe in the
you that believes in you. And there's something about that
belief is interesting. Gurren Laga is not my favorite

(01:01:28):
anime. I wouldn't even put Gurren Laga
in my top five, but Kamina as a character really important to
me. My guy, he just explained what
it is to be like a good person, a good mentor, a good professor,
good coach, a good therapist, right?
A good caregiver is I say that shit all the time.
You believe in me, huh? Or, or but you're a piece of

(01:01:51):
shit. But everything your wife loves
you, you do. They all say you're good people.
So you're saying they're stupid.What you're telling me is
they're fraudulent. You know, I do.
I'm a horrible worker. I'm a horrible PhD student.
But you're a professor who's oneof the top fucking scientists in
the world. Says you're awesome.
So you're saying he's an idiot and that you conned him.
You're so smart that you conned him into being smart?

(01:02:12):
That you're smart. I love telling people that, man.
I love that you brought that up.That's awesome.
Believe in me that believes in you.
You know, you say that slow enough.
And a few a few more times. I mean, you can get someone to
cry. Yeah.
I need you to believe in me. Yeah, I, I.
Cried. I cried a lot.
Why'd you, why'd you go Tropic Thunder?

(01:02:33):
Why'd you, why'd you believe in the me?
Believe in the me. I'm a dude playing a dude.
The stars is nothing. Dude.
No. It's I'm a dude that believes in
a dude believing in a dude believing in another dude.
I just want to be black, that's all.
This please. My skin is so close.

(01:02:57):
It's so close, I get treated horrible.
All right, go ahead. There it is.
What's your white name? Conan.
Maximilian. Maximilian, Maximilian.
Maximilian Ignatius Chesterfieldthe Third.
I knew it was going to be the 3rd.

(01:03:18):
It's always the third. My friends call me Ignatius.
Ignatius. Yeah, my father has a company
called Ignatius Industries. He inherited it from my
grandfather and I. I will soon inherit Ignatius
Industries. So many questions I feel like.

(01:03:38):
I'm not just so you know, I'm not coming up with this off the
top of my head. This is this is my lore this.
Is a real character. This is one of my, it's one of
my side personalities. It's fine.
Just one. Ignatius yeah, I mean the the
others, they don't play very nice.
They come out later. That's the Atlanta set coming
out. Like there's a lot of bad stuff

(01:03:59):
going on in that company. Like there's some plantations in
that company, but I'm not going to go to you.
Innovatious, innovatious industries.
They they definitely profit in textiles.
Yeah, they. Definitely profit.
I'm going to be real with you. I can feel you just hating us on
the bottom the. Tagline.
The tagline It's Ignatius Industries.

(01:04:20):
We own them. What are they talking about?
There with that smile too, Spence with this just we own you
know what do you own the entire book industry we're going to
keep your kids dumb don't worry about.

(01:04:43):
It anyhow. Any any other questions you want
to do the movie because I know we're running out of some time
here. Let's just do the show.
Let's do the show. OK, All right, let's just do the
show. So what actually, I don't want
to start with that. I don't want to start with that.
All the episodes and all the thethings you could have picked all
the things in Naruto, all the things.

(01:05:04):
What about this scene really touched this scene?
I think that rock leaf fight is impactful for me in a lot of
different ways because I, I think so I'll also, I'm, I'm
going to put myself out here. We're on the We're on the
Different Spectrums podcast. We're on the spectrum here,

(01:05:25):
baby. See, you say that ain't nobody
told me nothing, OK? I don't.
Ain't ain't no ain't nobody told.
Ain't nobody told me nothing. I'm the most typical of neuros
that you can't ever you. Need to stop.
You need just give me $1.00 background with that background,
dude, just give me $1.00 so I can take you on as a client.

(01:05:47):
Just $1.00 as a retainer. I'll I'll hook you up.
One time I was at an event with I, I was at an event and there
was a woman there and her whole job was running a nonprofit to
help autistic youth develop lifeskills.
And she said, I would love for you to come talk to my kids

(01:06:08):
because it would be great for them to hear from someone else
that's on the spectrum. And I did like a slow turn.
It was like who? And she was like, you, you not
autistic. And I was like, no.
And she was like. I'm just black.
Are you sure? She goes, Are you sure?

(01:06:31):
And I have this weird thing happening where like here,
here's here's what my mom says. Keep in mind my mom's a nice
lady. My mom says I can always tell
who you going to be friends withbecause it's something wrong
with all of y'all. My mom refers to be in my friend
group as an island of misfit toys like I like I'm.

(01:06:53):
I'm at school like from toy store.
The ones that are. All No.
The ones from the Rudolph. Rudolph the Red Nose, I thought
it. Was like from Toy Story, the
ones that are all beating the shit by Sid.
The island of Misfit Toys, all of them got something that's a
little off, but they got their own little society and they hang
out on the island. They don't really bother nobody

(01:07:13):
for real. And like, I went to college, I
made a friend and I was like, this is my boy for real.
I love this guy. This is like one of my best
friends. And he was like, I have
Asperger's. And I was like, oh, oh, come on.
Literally, literally as as recently as last week, last

(01:07:34):
week, I went to an influencer event.
I met a group of influencers. I met a guy.
It's my first time meeting him in person.
I was like, this guy is so cool.He just gets it.
He understands. We're like going back and forth
and I'm like, what's your app, man?
I need to follow you. And I go to his Instagram and
right there in the bio, autistic.
Come on bro, come on. It's OK, man.

(01:07:59):
Puzzle piece. You're like shit.
Puzzle piece I am I am the most neuro of the typical.
However, I think that Rock Lee trying to accomplish something
in a world where he only has oneof the three things that you've
been told you need to be successful.
I that to me feel like because like, think about it, jutsu is a

(01:08:23):
physical thing, right? So like you make the argument to
like this is how your body works, but your brain's a part
of your body. So it's like everybody else's
bodies work like this and let them do all of these things.
I don't know nothing about that,bro.
I got these. That's what I got.
I got the thing that I can actually do.

(01:08:44):
And I'm just going to have to, I'm just going to have to make
that work for me. And I think that that's a
significant part of my mindset. One thing for me, I, I entertain
no delusions about what I'm bad at.
I went to a school called Elon University at Elon art Theatre
program, accept 16 kids a year. I got accepted as one of the 16

(01:09:09):
kids out of thousands of people that audition.
And I looked around at my peers in the acting department and the
musical theater department and the musical theater side.
My school pumps out Broadway level performers every year.
Grant Gustin, who plays The Flash, he left school before
graduating to go play The Flash.People from my school are are in

(01:09:31):
Hamilton, Beauty and the Beast, like just about every Broadway
show you can think of. Elon is up in there, boy.
And I remember sitting there being like, I cannot compete
with you evenly in an audition pool.
I cannot sing, I cannot dance. I can only act.

(01:09:53):
That is the only thing that I can do.
So if I want to compete with you, I got to figure out how to
make my writing work really wellfor me.
And a lot of stuff in my life path has literally been, I Can't
Sing and I can't dance, but I can't write.
So I will, I will use the technique and we'll both end up

(01:10:14):
then we'll both end up in the same room and it'll be great.
So that's why I like bringing itup.
I'm like, I think it this, this concept of everybody else can do
this thing and I can't. But I'm still going to sweep
them though That that's that's my type of energy.
Also with this scene, he uses his somewhat, they say, a

(01:10:36):
disadvantage as his advantage because people don't know that
a, he has all those weights on him and he's just, he's not at
his full capacity or his full power ready to fight.
And then so once you're ready toactually show your full power,
then boom, you take those weights off.
He he goes into the flow state. Now here's my hot take.

(01:10:59):
The weights like they're there is like a training mechanism,
right? He's walking around.
Wait. Now I truly believe that, like
for me in particular, the weights are like definitely
white supremacy. Like the weights are like white
supremacy, just about every systemic structure that is

(01:11:21):
holding me down. And I'm like, oh, if we get in
this arena, here's what you wantto understand, bro.
I have been operating encumberedfor my entire life.
OK? I've been operating with this
weight bearing down on me for myentire life.
But if you get in a ring with meand I enter the flow state where

(01:11:44):
I can move those barriers out ofthe way in the context of this
specific conversation that we'rehaving or this specific way that
we're competing, you're done, you're finished.
And I think in publishing, that's how I feel about my
writing. Like, I think I'm OK at many
things. I think I'm a great writer, and

(01:12:05):
I say that with full appreciation and confidence and
as little arrogance as possible.I'm like, there are a lot of
things that I'm bad at, but but if you were to put a gun to my
head and say, Tony, name the top10 writers writing in children's
media right now, my name would be up there.
And it's not just because it's me.
I'm like I understand perspectives a lot and can craft

(01:12:30):
compelling stories really well. Why?
Because I haven't felt human formajority of my life.
For a significant amount of my life I felt like an alien having
to cosplay what it means to be human.
I observe every bit of you fleshbags that that we the the
difference between an awkward smile and a real one.

(01:12:51):
The tone that your voice takes on when you want someone to be
afraid versus when you want somebody to feel comfortable.
I had to study what it meant to be a human being just so that I
could make it through school without getting beat up.
So when it's time for me to go right, yes, I understand human
nature. I've been in this thing like
like Steve Irwin. We now observe the human in

(01:13:14):
their natural habitat. This is a very strange mating
custom that they do. It involves flowers and
balloons. They both die, but they expect
the wait a minute. The voice.
The voice is in there, Spence. I feel like you can do the
voice. Real Spence is good at voices.
Can you do the voice? I don't.
Want to do my Australian, I can't do my Australia.
It just sound it. It'll turn British and then

(01:13:35):
it'll turn like fucking Norwegian.
Oh. OK, because especially doing
them voices, boy, it real. I got I'm sorry to cut you off.
So yeah, why'd you have to use the word flash bags?
I'm sorry, you know I'm fucking perverted.
I mean. Well.

(01:13:56):
You're like, you're like, I got to get caught up on Dondanon.
I got to. I got to catch up.
Why are they trying to steal hisballs?
I don't understand. Why are his gold?
Why are his balls gold? And then why are they magical?
Will they have ever explained it?
I hope somebody's asleep and then they wake up to that part.

(01:14:17):
Like what? Is golden ball so I don't
understand. Everyone's trying to steal his
banana. They literally say banana.
To keep us on track, what what Iwhat I will say is I like this
scene typically around the weights because is.
There any bananas? Danny, Tony, keep going with

(01:14:45):
your thoughts. I'm so sorry, Tony.
I. Have no good guests on Damn
Nobody I. Can just hear them say the
words. I'm done.
I I. Think.
Go ahead, Tony. The the weights can be metaphors

(01:15:06):
for whatever is holding you back.
And for me, there are many things completely outside of my
control that hold me back that Ican't control.
It's not my fault that black writers account for less than 5%
while all traditionally published authors.
Therefore, when I send you a story about black kids, you're
concerned about the marketability.

(01:15:26):
And you say it's the marketability, but it's not the
marketability of the book, it's your ability to market.
And now me and my people and ourstories and our stuff got to get
held back because you don't knowhow to do your job.
That's a wait and I like the concept of taking those off and
showing these folk who you are and, and, and how you really

(01:15:46):
roll. I love it so So who's your
favorite character in this in this thing is is is it the the
the teacher or is it the kid or both?
Because you are both. You are.
You are both of them. I think definitely Lee because
he, there's a discipline that hehas and that's something that I

(01:16:09):
aspire to. My dad's a really disciplined
dude. I'm lazy.
I'm, I'm real, I'm real lazy. So I've been I, I, I think I
aspire to reach that level of. Spencer's like, motherfucker,
you, you reach his hand. Really lazy.
You wrote like you wrote two books already.
Yeah. OK, so here's the thing.
Here's the thing. To the Rotan.

(01:16:30):
How come I'm so? Lazy.
I'm so lazy that if I don't wantto do something, I will create
entire systems to prevent me from doing the thing that I
don't want to do. So I don't like waking up early
like it like so the concept of anine to five where I have to be
up at 6:30 or 7 in order to be able to go to work, I don't want
to do that. So I'll start an entire company,

(01:16:53):
build a revenue model, get clients, build a product, sell
the product, scale the product, expand my team, get a workforce,
train my team, put managers in place.
I'll build that entire ecosystemjust so I can wake up at like 11
and be fine because I don't wantto.
I don't want to get up at 7:30 in the morning, at 6:30 in the

(01:17:14):
morning. It's like I'm lazy.
So if I like, it's not about what do what do I want to do?
It's like, what do you don't want to do?
If he if he doesn't want to do the thing, he'll move heaven and
earth to make it so that he doesn't have to do the.
Thing my God, what do you what is a normal day for you look
like you sleep until 11 you you know I.
Play Apex Legends until 2:00 AM every day and boy is it great.

(01:17:38):
Apex Legends. OK, we're we're Fortnite on Apex
Legends. I I play Apex Legends with my
boy who also has a wonky job that lets him show up.
Whatever. I.
Wake up, he swears he don't. He was like, he was like, Oh no,
he was like, I am not one of you.

(01:17:58):
What? Do you mean you people?
What do you mean 1 of you? I am not one of you.
I'll wake up at like 11 and I'llcheck to make sure nothing's on
fire. As long as nothing's on fire, my
agent has likely sent me an audition that is due by noon.
So I go to my booth in the basement and I record my

(01:18:22):
auditions by noon. At noon I check in with my
assistant and they have a list of things for me that need to
get done, and I send them voice messages and like basically what
they need for that list. Then I go link up with my comms
person, we discuss what script is getting posted that day, I
write it, I film it, and while he's editing it, I handle my

(01:18:44):
actual task. I approve it, it gets posted,
and then I go to my To Do List and I chug away at it in between
calls until roughly 6 o'clock 7:00.
And then I eat. And then I work a little bit
more, spend time with my beloved, and then I play Apex

(01:19:05):
Legends until 2:00 in the morning.
Oh, there's a beloved good for you.
What a what a life. Yeah, She's a phrase.
She doesn't like people. I'm glad she.
It's a real person, right? It's not like a teddy bear or
something, right? So it's not a body pillow.
She's a real person. It's.
What you gotta ask, man, You gotta.
Ask just making sure. It's a real.

(01:19:27):
Flashback. Her name's Tabatha.
She's great. She's real soft.
She's afraid of she, she's afraid of people.
My audience is a little so she don't be like she she doesn't
like to be in front of people. No, no, Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you got to keep your privacy.
Privacy, as we call it. I had a question about something
and then I had to lost it. It was about his daily.

(01:19:50):
Body pillows. That was fun.
Yeah. Let me know what that body
pillow is. I don't know if you heard that
shit or not, but I thought it was.
Funny, I definitely said body pillow.
You did let me know the name of that company.
I don't know. There was a question.
It was going to be about his daily activities or rituals, but

(01:20:10):
I I had lost it. It was about no divergent in the
companies. It's completely fine.
I actually no pause. So every time you watch, right,
this show, are you really divinginto like that character and
identifying what they're doing or no, it's just certain scenes

(01:20:31):
or what what what what's the vibe when it comes to like
obviously the show and all the scenes for you, like how does it
hit? Naruto in general.
Yeah. How does it hit you?
This is my DNA, man. That's what I.
Figured I think Naruto was like,you know how everybody says
you're there are three decisionsfor a nerd or OK, I'm going to

(01:20:51):
say this it's going to be a little controversial if you clip
this people might get a little upset.
OK, I just want to put that out there.
So I think that if you are a nerd that grew up in, if you
were born in the late 90s, thereare three decisions in your life
that are very important. Everybody already knows the

(01:21:13):
first one, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Charmander, that's the first
one. That's a very important choice.
Second, which of the big three becomes your hyper fixation?
Naruto, One Piece or Bleach? You can always tell which one it
was. You can always distinguish the
Bleach people from the Naruto people from the One Piece
people. I was a Naruto person.

(01:21:35):
Naruto was my thing. I was in hand signs and running
with my arms behind my back. That was OK.
It's so autistic. And not at all super Naruto.
What are? You talking?
About the most neurotypical I was.
I was at the neurotypical mixer yesterday and everyone knew my

(01:21:57):
name. Everyone knew about me at the
neurotypical. Because it's a special Ed case
came on the yellow bit short. They, they know me over there
now. The third The third very
important pick. Yeah.
Is My Chemical Romance, Fall OutBoy or Panic at the Disco?

(01:22:19):
If you talk to any alt kid that was born in the late 90s around
2000, between 2004 to 2006, we got from under the cork tree a
fever you can't sweat out and welcome to the Black Parade at
the same time. And you, you liked all of them,
but everybody pick one. Everybody picked one where it

(01:22:40):
was like, I know all of their names and I know when Gerard Way
was born and I know Pete Wentz'sbelt size, all that, all all
that. Oh, you know his size.
You don't know I. Was AI was a fall out?
Boy, hey, he's also a brother. Pete, he's a brother.
So hey, I'm on with Pete. Which is crazy.
I know you I never like. I love Fall Out Boy, love him,

(01:23:04):
seen him live multiple times. Never fucking knew until
recently that Pete Wentz was wasactually black and I didn't
know. I didn't.
Know, did you see that real I sent you about that NBA player
the the, the the Center for Oklahoma City.
Yeah. And then he he's a brother, too.
For Stardust video, the. What he he, he, oh, he knew.

(01:23:27):
You always know your people. How does it stick in diesel?
I have a list. How does it stick on your head?
You have magnets on it My. Natural hair?
What do you mean? How does it say on my head it's
my natural hair? Yeah, yeah.
Well, I don't know what type of integration you'll agree to
school in Africa. You build schools in Africa?
Is that from the Elon school I heard about?

(01:23:48):
Crazy, I know. That Tesla school.
That's wild is that we do live in a world where I could be
like, I went to Elon University and someone's going to be like,
he skipped college and started watching Elon Musk vlogs, What's
back? That's what I thought.
Real school. It's real.
School. It's that blue pill.

(01:24:09):
Steak tastes delicious. All right.
Anyways, so now we're getting back into just Naruto.
I just have like a couple more questions.
What would you say is your defining?
No, I don't want to ask that. I don't want to ask.

(01:24:32):
Fuck fucking A, man. This is the first time I'm
actually fucking A. Lotismo.
That's fine. You got any questions now while
I'm thinking about? It I got actually something.
So we've had a lot of fantastic guests in this podcast.
We've had professional athletes,football, skateboarding, rugby,

(01:24:53):
soccer. It's been fantastic.
We've had tons of creators, therapists, black, brown, trans
on by all the stuff. And so right now I'm sitting
here thinking to myself, how in the hell did your ass come on
this podcast? Because like, how did it get?
Because you had multiple levels they had to get past before you
came to us And you were like, you know what, I'll do this.
So like, how did they approve it?

(01:25:16):
And then how did you approve it?And did you look at any of our
shit or like, you know what? These guys look pretty autistic.
Like the ones definitely white and the other ones ambiguous.
Like I like the bald guy's vibe.Like what was, you know, they
both have beards. I know you like.
Why is everybody got to like your vibe?
I said arbs you. Said your.
Vibe. Oh, whatever.
So how is how did we get past the levels?

(01:25:36):
Because I want to know. I'm.
Old surprised. I thrive on accessibility.
I don't, I think there will comea point in time in which for my
general mental health, I am reclusive.
Like when I go to conventions ofI'm like, I was at Anime NYCA
couple of weeks ago and I am deeply grateful and happy and

(01:25:57):
appreciative for everyone who said hi to me in Anime NYC.
But it was a running joke because I'd be walking somewhere
with my friends and someone would be like, are you Tony
Weaver? I'd be like, yeah.
And they'd be like, I'll take a picture.
I'd be like, sure. And while I'm taking a picture
with them, someone else shows and someone else shows up and
someone else shows up And my friends are like, they'll be
like, he'll be right here. Let's go do what we need to do.
They'll leave and they'll come back and half an hour will have

(01:26:20):
passed. And I am in the exact same spot
taking pictures. And I'm like, frankly, that's
fine because the world is full of people that want nothing more
than to be heard. So the idea that someone would
pop into my world, hear me and resonate with what I say enough
to want to pop up and say hi during the time when they see
me, that's like deeply humbling to me.

(01:26:42):
I don't, that doesn't bother me at all.
So when I get requests for podcasts and stuff like that,
I'm like, are they crazy? I'm like, let me go check.
Let me see. Are they, Well, they're not
about to be asking me about chemtrails, are they?
And once I check that and it's like, OK, these are people that

(01:27:03):
actually talk about stuff, I'm like, oh, OK, cool.
Because making a podcast is a lot of work.
If you do the I mean, like, I'm lazy.
I don't have a podcast for that exact reason.
It's a lot of work. So if you go through all the
effort to put a podcast together, especially a podcast
centered around like talking about mental health and
neurodivergence, and in the midst of that journey, you hear

(01:27:25):
the day of Tony Weaver Junior and go, man, it'd be cool to
talk to that guy. Then I'm like, why wouldn't I be
there? That works.
I'm down. I just wondered, right, because
I I just, you know, sometimes even like Spencer, he gets
people to come on and I'm like, how like I know we're good and
everyone says we are like, fantastic.
And this is one of the coolest, unmatched pods I've ever done
it. It's it's warm, it's welcoming,

(01:27:45):
it's authentic, it's real. And then I'll be like, but don't
aren't all the podcasts like this?
And they're just like, no. And I'm like, oh, OK, so you, I
was just wondering. So you like fuck it, I'll give
these guys a shot. Their flashbacks look.
OK, I think I, I think I enjoy being in conversation with

(01:28:07):
people about the things that I'mpassionate about.
Love it a chance. To talk about your passions
turned up. I love that.
Last question for me and then I'm I'm ready we can get up out
of here. What are you going to do after
this? So not not career wise like
right after this, like a lot of talking, a lot of shit talking,
some big emotions. Like do you need to throttle
down for the night? You're just going to play video
games. Like what's the vibe after this?

(01:28:28):
Like what? What do you think you need after
this? I got to, I got to get in the
lab. Too many too, too, too many
books, A lot of books going on. I had a meeting today that went
really well, but I got some homework for, I owe somebody a
follow up e-mail. As a matter of fact, I'm going
to say this right now and hopefully it'll work out in my
favor and we can reference it later.

(01:28:48):
The new Sonic cross worlds game comes out in a few weeks and I
managed to get a hold of the influencer manager at Sega, so
I'm trying to get me some Sonic cross worlds.
They need to send me some some extreme gear.
OK, I love Sonic cross worlds. Love it.
So you you got work to do after this.

(01:29:10):
So you ain't going to sleep early tonight.
I need that. I'm I'm.
I am ready. But he's lazy, you see.
Very much so I. Am you see the trap that I laid
there, right? I'm, I'm, I'm very lazy because
it's like, why are you doing this?
Because I don't want to. I don't want to be jealous when
my friends get Sonic Cross worlds, so I want to, I got to

(01:29:34):
go get Sonic Crossroads for myself.
There is a collectible figure, OK, there's a, there's a,
there's a, there's a, there's a statue of Sonic and Shadow in
their cars and they're the fastest things alive.
So, oh, why they even need cars,I don't know.
But if they didn't, we wouldn't have a game.
So I I need that. This Chism has blown all the

(01:29:55):
characters. In the world, let's get Flash a
van like. Why?
I need. That you need somewhere to
sleep. Yeah, well, I'm good, man.
I it's just I'm fucking exhausted.
Long day, but this was a magnificent way to end my night.
Yeah, it was fantastic. And Tony, we just want to say
thank you for coming on the showand being vulnerable, being

(01:30:17):
yourself, right? Being yourself.
We've had, you know, we've had guests and they, you know, they
are themselves. But then we've had those who
like kind of protective, which is fine, which is fine.
But we really appreciate you coming on, just being yourself,
being vulnerable and having these conversations with us.
Cuz you know what, sometimes it's not the easiest thing to
do. Well, I'm really grateful for

(01:30:39):
you all's time and the opportunity.
Thank you of. Course, All right.
With that, I mean, go check out Tony Weaver's stuff.
I mean, do you want to have any plugs you want to do, even
though they probably already follow you?
But hey. I'm at Tony Weaver Junior on
everything but go to nerdsforliteracy.com.
Yes, please donate. Yes, because it's very
important. Very important.

(01:31:00):
Nerds for literacy dot. Com No, we'll, we'll be posting
that link and then promoting that and it'll be on the stuff
that we tell you. It'll be on everything.
Yes. Everything all right with that?
I'm Spencer. That's Nas different special
pockets. All right, everyone, much love
and remember, take care of yourselves.
Or don't. It's.
Completely up to you. Peace.

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Outcasts, Anime, and Overcoming Darkness with Tony Weaver Jr.

Stuff You Should Know