Stories from George Floyd Square: Hope, Hustle & Healing [Ft. Marquise Bowie]

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Attention Welcome to the Different Spectrums podcast.
We dive into the wild world of mental health discussions.
Get ready for profound talks, a sprinkle of humor and sarcasm,
and a touch of colorful language.
Just a quick heads up, our show reflects our individual
opinions, which may not align with the standpoint of the

(00:21):
podcast, our featured guests, orany related corporate entities.
Our mission? To illuminate through laughter
and satire because everyone needs a good chuckle.
Chill out and don't stress over the small stuff.
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Cancel culture, please spare us.We'd rather keep this space

(00:43):
lawsuit free. So buckle up, have a good time,
and join us as we navigate the vibrant realm of mental health
on the Different Spectrums podcast.
Hey everybody, we back again. Hey, hey, we're back.
We're live. I'm Spencer, your Co host and of

(01:04):
course we have our licensed clinical therapist, Nas.
Ball headed Doctor Nas. Remember, don't take us too
seriously. Ardu.
It's completely up to you. There you go.
Also, don't forget to rob those likes for us because we'd really
appreciate it. All right, so today we have a
very special. Guest.

(01:25):
Our guest is a community leader,organizer and advocate for youth
empowerment and violence prevention.
He's a Co founder of the MN Agape Movement and the
Minneapolis BAM Project, two initiatives dedicated to
fostering healing, mentorship and positive change in the Twin
Cities. Through his work, he's been at
the at the forefront of buildingbridges between communities,

(01:47):
reducing harm, and creating spaces where young people can
thrive. Please welcome Marquis Bowie.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.Thanks for having me.
Yes, Sir. Good to have you.
Yeah. And today we're not going to be
doing like our usual podcast where we have like a movie or a
show or anything like that. We're just going to get to the

(02:08):
Knitty. And we're just going to be
talking about community. We're going to be talking about
certain things are happening, especially in the Twin Cities,
that can affect the people. They're actually living in the
South Minneapolis area. So I think that this is going to
be a really great discussion. Nas anything before we get into

(02:29):
it? I got to talk to him in pre
production. We're going to talk about some
real stuff, some real shit. To be frank, there's not a
better word. And we're going to talk about
what's been affecting folks there, but specifically folks
that are from there and what's going on in police this that
George Floyd and also just how this affected black folks in
general. So we're going to have a good
talk today. This will be a good educational

(02:51):
thing. And for those of you that want
to skip to just know divergent autism stuff, this is probably
something that you should listento and take a seat.
So don't skip on this. You need to hear this.
I know ADHD and all that gets inthe way.
This is a time to sit and learn to hear from other voices than
all the ones that we've already had.
If you said for the other voices, other white based folks,

(03:12):
right? Some Jewish folks, some Hispanic
folks, some Asian folk, you should sit here for this belly
right now. So, so some respect.
Let's hop in. Let's have some good time, but
also let's learn some shit. Woop woop.
Whoop, whoop. There you go.
Whoop. Hey, you got it.
Hey there, you got it. Man, I've been saying that for a
long time, but it has some St. undertones to it.

(03:36):
OK, we going to have to get intothat.
Hey, you know, Hey, we. That's my old, that's my old
life, man. That's what this talks about,
man. OK, OK.
OK. All right, all right.
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(04:20):
roll on. All right, and we're back again.
Hey, we're live. That's it.
OK, there it is. Yeah.
So, Marquis, I actually met you at one of my, at an event my
girlfriend was help hosting downat George Floyd Square and you

(04:45):
gave me your card. I have it right here actually.
And one of the things that you say on there is that you are a
Taurus interrupter of the GeorgeFloyd Square.
Can you get into what is a Taurus interrupter?
And then also how'd you start? How'd you start getting into
that? Really just having
conversations, man up with people to why they're coming

(05:09):
into 30th in Chicago now. Prior to George Ford's murder,
you really couldn't get people to come over there because of
mental health issues, substance abuse, gang activity and
homelessness. And it's, it's interesting how a
murder took place in 2020 and now everybody from all over the
world wants to come there and pay respects, quote UN quote.
And I don't think there's nothing wrong with that in

(05:30):
itself, but looking at how the community is looked and looking,
hearing what the businesses are saying and the people that are
from that community, they don't really see that it's actually
benefiting our community. As we were on a break, I looked
at, you know, just to check my my phone and I saw today that,
you know, it's businesses that are suing the city of
Minneapolis because of what's been going on over there over

(05:51):
there for the last five years. And nobody seems to be really
caring about helping our community.
So that's when the tourist interruption have come about and
seeing that it was tour buses ofpeople coming over there that
are in Minnesota for trainings, conferences and they're telling
us that they're coming to pay respects, but nobody really
supports the businesses over there.
So it was good to see you and the group that you had actually

(06:12):
in the coffee shop because that's support and that's what
support looks like to us. Max, how long you been doing
this, brother? How you just started last year
too? How long has it been going?
No, officially I've had this title for like 3 years, but I've
been doing it for the whole timethat George Ford's been murdered
because think of think this is what brought us out of the house

(06:32):
from COVID. So you start seeing a bunch of
people that really were popping up over there in protest mode.
And it was good. But we were seeing a lot of
people that were coming over there setting up tents and
selling hats, shirts, masks, giving away free food.
Yet they were walking away with buckets of money.
And then hearing later how people made upwards of $40

(06:53):
million on started their nonprofits.
And really, none of that money really came back to the
community. OK, wow.
So I would love to know, just going backwards in time, before
the murder of George Floyd for you, what was the area like?

(07:15):
What was the area like on Chicago for you?
And how did? How does it change from then to
now? I mean, prior to George Ford's
murder, I was, I was literally just getting out of prison from
doing almost 12 years in federalprison.
July 19th to be exact, of 2019, I got out of prison and I stayed
away from the community just because I knew it would trigger

(07:35):
me in some way seeing that with all that time for the community.
So I say September of 2019 is really I really start getting
back into the community. I went to all the parks that I
grew up with from Potter Horn toPhelps to Central, just to
volunteer and be of some servicefor the community.
And Fast forward to May 25th when George Ford got murdered.

(07:58):
I mean, prior to that, you really couldn't get people to
come over there. I mean, you have some businesses
over there that was like really trying to get people to come
support the businesses. And we see a lot of physical
people coming over there now, but it doesn't seem like nothing
is being really done to help thecommunity.
And I don't even, I don't even like to add the city into these
conversations, honestly, becausea lot of people ask like, what

(08:19):
is the city doing with the City Council, the government?
And I think we, we depend too much on them to do something.
And they're part of the reason why we're in a situation in the
1st place, if you ask me. Why, why do you think the the
people they don't they don't spend the money, they don't go
to the shops, They don't they just hop on the bus, hop off
real quick, take a couple photos.
They feel good like oh, you knowwhich sport black?

(08:40):
Why do you think that? Why do you think that is?
Why don't why is it just like just trying to be fake or is it
tourist? Why is it even a tourist
destination then? I mean.
Just think, just think of what we're doing.
May 25th, people could almost visualize what they were doing.
They were sitting at home duringCOVID.
And when CNN showed that video maybe was that day or the next
day, May 26th, it we it was on repeat.

(09:02):
So of course, people are in Minnesota for a bunch of
trainings and stuff they got going on downtown.
A lot of people are here to see the mall, Timberwolves, Twins,
Vikings or Paisley Park where Prince lives, seeing that this
is the neighborhood that he grewup, Prince grew up in.
You know, that's one of the draws as well, because people
want to be in that physical space because it's nothing like
that. Nowhere else in the United

(09:23):
States. And we've seen plenty of people
get killed on video in Minnesotaand all over the United States,
but yet there's nothing like what's on 38th and Chicago.
Why do you think it's like that?Why do you think this should so
like a big draw? Why do you think this is so
substantially different than what mean you talked in pre
production about all these are the killings that have happened
over the years. Everything that happened in 2015

(09:45):
with me and Spanish just kind ofdid a podcast about on the piece
by piece joint. Why do you think it's so
different than the young brotherwe talked about that got killed
by police in Colorado, the McCain boy?
Well, why do you think this thisis so much different.
Because don't when them other killings took place, we were
kind of in normal times and the fact that we sat and watched
that and watched that and watched it and up rest that came

(10:09):
along with it. We hadn't seen that like that
since maybe Rodney King, Rodney doing the Rodney King beating.
And you know, that's still freshin people's mind because they're
using it as a backdrop. It's all in political circles
and you know, this the inhumane way in which he was killed, you
know, that's why people paid a lot more attention to it.
And it's really probably becauseof the COVID.

(10:29):
I know a lot of people say the video and it it could be the
video to a degree because of theany main way he kneeled on his
neck. But we've seen Jamar Clark would
get killed. We've seen for Lando Castillo
get killed. We've seen Amir Lock, Dante
Wright, Winston Smith, Sonja Massey, Brianna Taylor, Michael
Brown, the list goes on and on. But we were kind of moving and

(10:49):
grooving in our own thing, working movies, flying across
the world. Where was life in?
And the difference is that, you know, we saw that for the whole
duration of the time, the whole 9 minutes and 26 seconds.
And it just can't. That stuff you can't Unsee once
you see it. Max, thank you.

(11:15):
So, you know, we've talked abouthow just the government
involvement, it's it's not helping, especially since we
have different people in the state that want to do different
things to George Floyd Square, right.
You talked about it with me. You want, they wanted to make it
like a like, kind of like a shopping mall somewhere where

(11:35):
it's like touristy, a tourist trap and things like that.
And and then you have on the other side, people that really
don't want that like yourself, because at the end of the day,
you those businesses are going to be gentrified and then it's
not going to be community owned anymore.
It's going to be people from outside of the community coming

(11:56):
in and taking over. So for you, like what, what do
you think are some things that the community can do now to help
support it so that we don't haveto see those type of things
happen to George Floyd Square? I mean, one of the good things I
can't say is that people that live nearby that were scared to

(12:17):
come over there before, they nowcome on purpose.
Now other times before, they probably used to come to catch
the bus or go to the gas station.
You would have people that woulddo stuff like that.
But to get people to walk down the street and see hopefully
some liveliness. I mean, I know the the
businesses have been talking from Terrance all the way down
to the corner about, you know, some facade makeovers to make it

(12:40):
look more appealing, man, and tomake more lighting will make it
more appealing as well to get people to want to come over
there and actually spend some money.
The coffee shop is doing all right.
And it's the newest thing over there because it's the coffee
shop, you know, and if we can get, you know, smoke in the pit,
just Turkey a couple artist places over there, King
Demetrius, Wayne Young Huey, this guy named Ace.

(13:03):
I'm with this other movement called the Agape movement.
We're like the public safety advocates over there that try to
keep it as peacefully as we can.And I at one point we were all
working with the city as far as contractual wise to try to be
the boots on the ground versionsof push for Peace, a mother's
love. I mean, seeing what just
happened a couple days ago when little kid got killed over at

(13:23):
Firewall Park over North, you know, you need these people to
have this relationship with the community that are not trying to
just arrest our way out of it. So that's when we stepped in as
they agape movement to try to bring to peace when all the
world is coming over there and they really didn't know what
they were stepping into. Even to this day, like people go
over there, but at times it was people waiting over there to car

(13:45):
Jack assault because they're trying to get that next fix.
They're trying to get there somemoney for some shelter.
And yet at times you sometimes see, don't see police driving
through there at at times for hours on end.
Are you seeing more police involvement around there now or
no? No, no, I mean, you pretty much
see probably less. I know a couple months ago it

(14:07):
was some officers matter of fact, and I was just reading
this who it was two years ago, it was 2 offers there was that
was signed to walk the beat overthere.
And you might see them over there every now and then, but
they're not really connecting with the community like you
would think. Because you popping up three
years later is not a solution, especially if you're not talking
to people. And at one point in my life, I

(14:28):
hated the policeman with a capital everything.
But knowing that they're human beings just like me and Chauvin
and them made some terrible mistakes, man, I can actually
have conversations with them nowbecause I'm living a whole
different life and I'm not as scared of them as I used to be
when I was in my former, when I was in my Mad Dog stages of
Life, OK. Yeah.

(14:50):
And then knowing that the formerpolice chief Arredondo grew up
on the same block as I grew up on, he was a guy that we
respected even though we didn't like him, but we believe that he
got into it for the right reasons.
The Mad Dog thing is that is that was that your book or I
know you said something else about some 97 something.
So I don't know what you got going on.
You got something. I know Spencer probably got that

(15:10):
talking about later, but. So this is the book that I wrote
just unpacking my trauma while Iwas in prison.
I know a lot of people think prison is about rehabilitation,
but you have to do it yourself man.
And I know as I was sentenced to175 months in federal prison
2007, I just got to re evaluate myself and I knew I was I was
better than the situation that Ifound myself in.

(15:33):
So I did everything I could to unpack the trauma and leave it
there. So this, the last drop of Mad
Dog is just a collection of stories that I wrote about
growing up in his traumatic neighborhood.
And and I left him in jail. So Marquis Booty can come out as
a free man and live the life that I'm supposed to live and be
what I needed at a young age. Love it, love that shit.

(15:53):
Amazing going. To have to grab your book.
Yeah, and I want to get more. I want to get more into the
book, brother. But what was the something else
you brought before? And I'm going to kick it back to
Spencer. You said something about 97
something about you and. Yeah.
So me and three other brothers, we've been doing platform
speaking engagements about 97 years and counting.

(16:14):
And three other brothers and myself that grew up together
between us four man, we had 97 years in prison.
One of them there like 32, One of them did 30, my brother did
25 and I did almost 12. And, you know, we've been
speaking at Sabathne, we did a speaking at Global Midtown, just
about all the stuff that we've, we've lost, man.

(16:36):
One of the brothers had stage 4 cancer, was supposed to die in
prison and he's still kicking, man.
And he, he was so eager to get out, man, to try to, you know,
show what change looks like, man.
And he's one of the pillars of the community, man.
And it's an honor and pleasure to be with these brothers, man,
because they actually get it, man.
A lot of the mothers that come out of them situations, man

(16:56):
appreciate life a little bit more.
While you see some people that never went to prison are in
prison on the streets because they're addicted.
They're in relationships that ain't going to where and they're
just going through the cycle this the the motions of life,
man still stuck. And some of them in the 80s and
90s when the gang culture was just at its highest in

(17:17):
Minneapolis, when they were calling us murderapolis.
Murderapolis. Jesus.
Yeah. I'll go back to those days,
unfortunately. Yeah.
How was how was the time? I would love to talk about just
your other project that you havecalled Minneapolis Band Project,

(17:41):
which is about mentorship. Can you speak on that?
And then also how you're taking your own, your own life stories
and then bringing those to the younger generation and helping
them move along and make a better community.
Yes, Sir. So the band project came above
with me and one of the brothers.I grew up with man.

(18:03):
We both grew up with our fathersfather figures in our life.
He lost his grandma when he was maybe 2.
He lost his mom when he's like two or three.
So he was raised with his grandma and I remember backing
up man, back in the early 90s. We end up, we actually watched
his dad on America's Most Wanted.
He had escaped from a sandstone federal prison in Sandstone,

(18:23):
Minnesota. So, you know, I didn't have a
father figure in my life. And once I get out, I got out,
man. We were just brainstorming to
try to be what we needed at his young age man and I have a job
at Roosevelt High School, so I get to be around a bunch of
young, broken young people like myself and I just take it liking
to them and I see a little pieceof me and all them.

(18:44):
Man, I was, I was mad at the world growing up man, for
whatever reasons, man. And I self medicated on alcohol,
which was Mad Dog 2020 banana red, which was, was my color of
choice. And man it was, it was something
else, man. I look at old pictures, man.
I didn't smile that much man. I did not smile before that
before, before colors and all that stuff came in man.

(19:06):
We all used to go roller skate man.
And I was a happy go lucky kid man.
But once, you know, I've seen a movie like Colors and then
menaces society and stuff like that, man, I just transform and
became those things that I saw. Why do you think that?
Why do you think that is like young men, black, brown, poor,
whatever, it doesn't matter. Why is it that so many of us end

(19:30):
up just being like lost? Or is it, is it masculinity?
Is it just the way the system is?
Is the system broken? We were talking about that
before. Is it just, you know, we see
they were called dogs, thugs, murderers, rapists and what's
they're calling my people these days?
Drug dealer? Well, why do you think we're
because you said mad. And I remember my professor said
that, but she said you grow up mad and you don't even know why.

(19:52):
I was like, holy shit, she's right.
I don't even know where the fuckI'm at all the time, but I am.
It's a combination of all that stuff.
And I know for me as my mom's only child man standing on 37th
at park, my mom had came and called this guy that called
Blackjack. He ended up being my stepdad and
he was a big time drug dealer came up here from New York.
He had this big country slang. I I couldn't understand it and I

(20:14):
didn't like him. He was ugly and.
We was in the drug game, man. So I, I stayed outside a lot,
man. Being my mom's only kid, she
really didn't have no boundaries.
I didn't have a curfew. So I was out, I was out in the
Wildman around a bunch of, and I'm looking at players and pimps
and drug dealers and they look like they had it going on, man.
And unbeknownst to me, man, I thought that's what I wanted in

(20:38):
life, man. And so much so that, you know, I
end up mimicking those things, man, and thinking that I could
come up and get myself out of poverty.
And I was feeding the emptiness within me with the wrong vices,
man, because I wasn't getting that.
I wasn't getting that healthy dose at home for my dad or my
mom. So I was out, me and me and a

(20:58):
bunch of young blind leading theblind, young brothers and
sisters, man, just basically raise ourselves like a pack of
wolves. Fucked up in it.
So, you know, white folk, whatever.
People with a little bit of money, not even that much money,
even a little bit of money. Well, you should just know
better. You should be able to make
better choices. That's what they're going to say
about your community, my community, as you just make

(21:20):
better choices. And you're right.
And just don't be a convict. Don't be, don't be a thug.
Don't, don't, don't do stupid shit like that and everything
will be OK. You've made poor choices.
That's what the world tends to tell us.
Is that true? Can we just make better choice?
I don't want to play the victim card here, but then again.
I wish we could, I wish it was that easy, man, but you mimic
the environment that you grew upin and with a lack of resources,

(21:41):
man, you're basically in survival mode.
I know that's what it was for me, man.
I was in survival mode. I used to literally walk in on
drug raids, man, when when our house was getting a drug raided
and they would walk me down the block to another family that I
could stay with for months on end.
But you know, me being my mom's only child, man, I felt like me
being around her would hope helpher get off of drugs at one

(22:03):
point. And it didn't work, man.
I just, I could just see one of my best friends got killed at a
party, man, we were 15 or 16 years old man, this is 91.
And I could just see me being like a kid in play type guy
Urkel type kid basketball. And then I could see myself
morphing into old dog and menaceDoughboy from Boys in the Hood,

(22:29):
fake slash Nino Brown gigolo player pimp type wannabe type
dude. I wear all the, I wore all the
costumes, man. It's not a costume that I didn't
wear when it came to foolishnessas far as trying to portray an
image. Costumes fence me and you talk
about mask costumes code switching all the time on this
podcast, but this is a differenttype of costume and we talked

(22:52):
about narrow divergent masking and that how that can kill us
'cause depression. This shit will really kill you,
put you in a penitentiary, right?
One last thing. So what?
Spencer was saying. Go on.
Sorry about that. I've been in Stillwater recently
just talking with brothers, man,and it's been brothers in there
since we was in high school, man, 30 plus years.

(23:12):
And I'm like wow, that could have easily been me, man,
eagerly. So the question was, Spence
brought up, is this thing that you got going on, how does it
feel to know like you, you're, you're like a cat.
That's like helping folks out, mentoring some young UNS.
Amen. You messing up here, you know,
watch what you're doing, right? How's it feel interacting with
that community like Spencer's bringing up?

(23:33):
It feels good man, being being appreciated for some some of the
positive stuff, especially when I see the youth man, you know,
me being one of the faces at Roosevelt of authority.
I see a lot of the kids now, man, and they treat me like I'm
Tupac or somebody. They treat me like a rock store
man. Literally when I see, and these
are kids that I have been seeing, man, But when they see
me, man, at at like Phelps Park,I was just at a Jimmy Lee

(23:57):
yesterday playing basketball in Saint Paul, man.
And they treat me like this is something that they need.
And I feel like if I can work myway up out of this situation, it
wasn't me working. It was about the grace of God,
man. If I can come up out of decision
and be smiling now, man, I'm encouraging people that they can
get out of that life as well. Because I was, I was thinking

(24:18):
it, man. If you Google my name, Marquis
Buoy versus United States of America, you'll see a long
indictment, man. That started a quote, UN quote,
in 1990 and at 1990. I wasn't nothing at the time.
I wasn't into anything really, but they obviously had, was
watching somebody close to me, which was one of my older
cousins that had been in and outof the system.

(24:39):
So my last name rings in the system.
So we talked about just speakingto the younger people, the
younger generation, but how like, how do you, how do you
relate to them? How do you relate to the younger

(24:59):
generation? Because that's a hard thing to
do nowadays. You know, everybody's got the
cellular phones and the Facebook's.
But like, how do you, how does Marquis, how does he relate to
the younger people today? I just meet them where they are,
man. I can relate to them on so many
different fronts. Being mad at the world, trying

(25:21):
to self medicate and I, I don't tell them not to do certain
stuff. I just put it out there the some
of the consequences that's goingto come with it.
And then I they got to make the decision themselves, man.
Either you want to be me workingat Roosevelt's security monitor
making $1718, or you can be another brother named Mike
Walker that was in that same type of life that just got his

(25:44):
doctorate's and he's making $6070 an hour.
And I tell him, man, just without a high school diploma,
you'll make maybe $30,000 less just on a regular, just on that
level in itself. And they said, you think you
want this life, man, this ain't what you want, man.
And at times when I'm at work, I'll get a call from a brother

(26:05):
that's in there. And I'll be like, hey man, tell
this little brother about you at16 and where you at now and what
that's like, What's that's been like for the last 20 years?
Do the kids, it sounds like theylisten, but like also we know as
kids, young, dumb and ignorant. I know I was.
I'm sounds like, I'm not going to say that you were, but it

(26:26):
sounds like you were pretty stubborn as well.
What do you do with the kids that like it's just hard to get
through to because like I know Istruggle with some clients to
get through as like a therapist and a mentor to a lot of young
folk. How do you handle seeing a kid
going down the wrong path and knowing you can't do nothing
about it and they're just going to have to learn the hard way to

(26:47):
me is gut wrenching to you. I don't know how that triggers
you, how that feels. Yeah, it could get frustrating
at times, but again, I try not to worry about stuff I have no
control over if I can. And I try to be as consistent as
I can without coming off preachywithout, you know, claim
without, you know, and I'll tellthem like, I don't think you
guys are bad kids, man. Cuz when we was out, we're doing

(27:09):
it. We was man, we was, we was
actually doing it for real. And I, you know, a lot of these
kids are kind of just crying outfor some type of attention
because you either you're going to get it, you want attention,
whether you get it good or bad. And unfortunately they're
getting it in a bad way. But so just acknowledge them.
Like when I'm, when I'm seeing aman, I see you man, and try to
encourage them in as much as I could without, without, you

(27:32):
know, burping them and, and holding their hand throughout
the whole process, You know, because a lot of kids right now
are really entitled. So for instance, I get a box,
I'll go to this bakery and get abox of Donuts at least 3-4 times
a week, and I'll sit them in at the front desk at school and
they think just because they seethem, they're supposed to get

(27:52):
one. I make them work for one and
sometimes they'll see me leavingwith two boxes of the four
Donuts because they hadn't earned them.
Are you going to you going to work for this?
And I'll, I'll have some riddlesand stuff up there, some little
brain Busters. It's not nothing hard, but you
can work as a team or you can figure something out and you can
earn yourself a donut and that'sthe only way you're going to get
it. I'm, I'm not, I'm not just

(28:14):
giving you something just because you see it and you think
that you deserve it. Bare minimum, I'll get good
grades. You're supposed to do that.
So I don't award stuff for your stuff you're supposed to do.
You got to earn this somehow. Before I kick this fence, I, I
wonder what would help. I'm thinking now for myself,
what would help you back then? Because I know that like this is

(28:38):
being helpful for you, right? You're healing some of your old
wounds, but also healing some other young brothers.
But like, what would have what would have gotten you?
Because he sounds like he was going through a lot of different
shit. So what do you think?
Like Someone Like You could havesaid to a younger version of
yourself, what would have got through to you?
Maybe nothing at all. What would have planted a seed
at the younger version of you? I would say consistency.

(29:01):
I didn't, I didn't have any really.
The only thing that I had consistency was dysfunction.
I would see, you know, the men and my family, whether it was my
mom's friends, my aunts and boyfriends.
All I would see is the dysfunction, drug abuse,
alcoholism, and that's all I sawon a consistent basis.
I didn't see a lot of my friendshaving their dads in their life.

(29:25):
I didn't see them at the parks when we were at the parks.
I didn't see my dad physically like that that often.
And I would say consistency and the fact that they can say they
can see me Monday through Fridayat school is consistent as some
of them might see a black man, honestly, that's trying to do
something positive. Yeah, I I can agree.

(29:49):
I think that's one of the biggest things in the world that
a man can do, any parent can do.Spence, I'm not sure if you saw
it. I posted a a video the other day
about it was that guy that you like, that Bethel guy right on
his podcast. And he had this other Hispanic
guy on there talk about being a good dad and like having a
father means makes a big difference, means a lot.

(30:10):
And he was talking about being adad and how simple it is.
He's like, you got these fuckingpsychologists and therapy.
He's like, just show up for yourkids, love your kids, hug your
kids. And he's like, I might not have
no money, but I'll buy you McDonald's, my son.
I love you, my son. I'm going to lie, I was blowing
my eyes out. I sent it to my father.
He's like, why would you send methis shit?
Like I'm blowing my eyes at the house.

(30:31):
I'm getting choked up now thinking about it because to see
this Hispanic man talk about howmuch he loved his kids, shit
crushed me in a good way becausethey're not in my father, right?
A convict. And I was told you I was headed
for a horrible path. And he comes out, everything
changes. And all of a sudden I'm out of
special Ed. And all of a sudden I'm not
getting into fights, and all of a sudden I'm not beating up
teachers, and all of a sudden I'm not in detention class

(30:52):
anymore, right? Everything changed when you get
a little bit of love and consistency.
And presence. Presence, right?
And then people be like oh this or that or right you was poor.
They say who gives a fuck when you got someone that loves you
and shows up. So I agree with you.
Consistency. Presence.
I mean, my dad, my dad struggledwith substance abuse for a

(31:12):
while, man. And I remember I seen he had
moved off, man, start doing a trucking company, man, and got
himself together and he would never come around.
And I'm thinking to myself, and I wrote about it in my book like
it was as if he put me on a swing.
But he never gave me that initial push to get me going.
And it was almost like we escaped out of a burning

(31:33):
building and basically said saveyourself.
He broke up with my mom but it felt like he broke up with me as
well and he just moved back to Minnesota maybe not even a month
ago. And I I want to see him one of
my little brothers today. I I just met my little brother
right before I got locked up. I'm 49 he's 40.
I just met him 2006. I got locked up in 2007 and I

(31:56):
was just at a basketball game and I seen him playing
basketball. Never heard of him in my life.
I got another brother from my dad too and I've known about him
since he was maybe 3. He's younger, but I thought he
was older when I met my, my, my,my brother named DeAndre.
And I just went to see him todaybecause it's my nephew's
birthday and I took him a coupledollars man.

(32:17):
And I told him dad moved back intown and he was like, wow, he he
never, he hadn't reached back, none of that type of stuff.
But he had a nice trucking company and he got three sons.
But he from all I know, he's never told any of us to come
with him and learn the trucking business where he could have
passed down some some knowledge and game to the to us to help

(32:37):
us, you know, run a trucking business.
Figure it out. He just sold it, Yeah.
He basically said figure it out yourself and then come and then
come get with me. That don't make no sense to me.
Yeah, it sucks. Hands on is is is powerful.
Yes, sorry about that brother. Are you good?

(33:00):
So work in the community, it canbe a very rewarding thing,
right? But then it can also be
something that's very heavy and total, like just, it's very
totaling. And how do you keep from like
just being grounded and just avoiding burnout?
How do you do that when you're just so far entrenched inside

(33:24):
the community? I look at where I was just at
six years ago and I look at whathappened seven years ago, 8
months before I was about to come home, my mom passed and
nothing that I go out here can compare with that.
So I might have a bad moment, 5-10 minutes, but I don't let

(33:46):
none of your stuff bother me. And I don't take it personal
because before this, I've never knew most of the people that I
meet now. So if I never see them again,
ho, I'm not missing nothing. And being the only child, I'm
I'm used to being alone. So I don't really trip off that.
I hang out with my wife, I'm at home, I'm in the community and
I'm giving my community some hope and inspiring people, man.

(34:09):
And when my mom's friends familysee me, man, they're the ones
that give me all the inspiration, man.
Because they, like your mom willbe proud of you.
Because I never was really doingnothing to make her proud.
And I think of probably all the extra stress that I gave her of
not calling. We didn't have cell phones like
that and just not making her feel comfortable about me when

(34:30):
I'm out in the streets and her not knowing what's going on.
So this is this is something that I wrote down that I wanted
to do, man. And I know people were asking
me, well, how you going to make money?
Because nonprofits are really not about money.
And I don't really care about that because I chase money and
they ended me in prison. And I get.

(34:51):
To do something that I really like, man, I get to being
powerful. I mean, the, the students that
I've connected with that still, you know, connect with me
outside of school. We've been out of school for
maybe a week. I've seen some of them.
I'll go to Target and I'll see them working at Targets and
Family Dollars and White Castles.
And they just, man, can you cometo my graduation and I end up

(35:12):
end up being a girls flag football coach.
This is the first year that they've done that for the high
schools. And the Vikings put I think
about 500,000 into us. So every team got 10,000 and I
was, I was a high school flag football coach for the girls
flag football team. So, you know, they, they see me
and they like, man, we appreciate you, man.

(35:32):
Just as small little things withthese Donuts.
And you know, I facilitate a creative riding healing circle
every other week or the next onewill be on Tuesday across the
street from the coffee shop. Some of them come to that.
I'm also art ambassador through the city of Minneapolis for the
38th St. District, so I can buy a bunch
of supplies for kids to come anddo some artsy fartsy type stuff.

(35:55):
So I'm, I'm doing stuff and again, just being something
different in my community and, you know, inspiring others that
they, they can do something too.So I don't want to gloss over
some things. I want to ask some questions,
but how often is these things that you put on?
So something you just mentioned is on Tuesday.
How often does that happen? Is that just every once in a

(36:16):
while? Is that monthly?
Weekly. Every other Tuesday in the
George Force Square, we got thisoffice space called the Agape
office. It's directly across the street
from the coffee shop. Where was that?
And every other two I, I, I so to take a break.
I took a break for like a month.I had to go out of town, get my
daughter and I then I went to a funeral in a funeral in Seattle

(36:37):
last week. So I come home at the middle in
the middle of the day, man. I come pray, wash my face and,
you know, meditate for a little second, man.
But I wake up two hours before Igot to go anywhere just to
meditate, read my Bible and justpour into talk to my faith, man.
And I stay grounded and rudely, man, because hey, I'm going to

(36:58):
do some great things, man. So this is every, every other
Tuesday, you said? Well, Sir, And then what was the
other the art thing? How often does the art thing
happen? So as the ambassador, every
couple months I try to get some of the other artists that are in
the George Force Square area to come together and brainstorm,
put some questions on the board to see how we can collab all to

(37:20):
make our neighborhood better andwhat's going on with their stuff
so I can promote it and then report back to the city.
We'll, the puppet place needs this amount of money so they can
do XY and Z and the Pillsbury needs this, that and the third.
So I'm I'm the ambassador between the community and the
city of Minneapolis because people don't trust the city, but

(37:41):
they trust me. There you go.
I want to make sure people heardthe thing about flag football.
That's a they've made a big pushthe NFL in the last two years.
They have some awesome folks that are working it and running
it to to amazing folks of color that are doing it.
Black folk that are putting it on.
They're investing in a lot of the school Spence and investing

(38:01):
extremely hard in women playing flag football.
I just heard about this recentlyon ESPN.
It's fantastic. I'm glad you brought that up.
I think it's a great thing to keep a lot of people off the
streets. School, community connection,
mentorship, right? Sports is magnificent.
It's one of the reasons why I'm here today.
Only reason why I went to college.

(38:22):
Well, my father made sure he, you know, mentally kicked my ass
if I didn't keep my grades up. But right, I was getting
scholarships for football, right?
All my other friends, they went to the military right before
they all went to the military, Iwent for football.
So it's sports huge, huge. Gave me a lot of love, got a lot
of coaching and mentorship through that.

(38:42):
Man, it's magnificent. I bought my best friends from
that. So I love that you brought that
up. Hopefully other folks that
listen to this, if you do have any women that are interested in
it, please go check out flag football.
Huge exponential growth in the last few years.
Yes. Question for you.
I know, man. You know Spencer knows I'm a
fucking softie. So you're not going to either

(39:03):
cry twice now you, you brought up your mom and you said she'd
be proud of you. And I was like, dude, does that
mess you up or what? I don't know how connected you
are to emotions because I know you had to bottle up a lot of
stuff to survive and make it, but like, there's no way people
say your mother would be proud of you and you don't feel
something in that soul yours. Man, of course, man.
I mean, I was again, my mom's only child, man, and my mom had

(39:26):
a special place in my heart thatnobody else can feel.
And the fact that I got girls myself, I got two daughters and
a granddaughter, and I feel likethis is God's way.
And they both, you know, remind me of my mom, man.
One of them goes Alabama State. So every year for the last three
years, I'll fly to Atlanta, takethe Greyhound to Montgomery, AL

(39:48):
and then drive her back. And my set, I got a 17 year old
that's a teen mother and she endup moving in with me.
Last year her mom was kind of bouncing her around.
We tried to do it last year, it didn't work out and you know,
sent her back to where she was. She wanted to go back where her
mom was at and then found out she was pregnant.
And she called me some months later said, dad, can I come move

(40:10):
back with you? And it's just about building,
man. I mean, it's still kind of.
Raw, she's been with me a littleover a year.
She's she's got excellent grades, but she still has my
mom's attitude. My mom had a heart exterior and
I've I've had that, but I just cried 2 days in a row, man.
Just I'm thinking I'm good. I heard a song and I just, I

(40:31):
just had to call my wife like, man, listen to this song, man.
And yeah. What was this?
OK, it's OK to do that man. I don't think it's a stigma on
men. Have to be strong, tough.
Don't cry, man. I mean hey, I've done it
literally 2 days in a row and I'm like whoa, something's going
on. Something about that happened

(40:52):
and I don't know what it is. Cleansing for the cold. 100%
Spence, go ahead. So what are what are some ways
that people listening, our listeners can help support your
work or just get involved in a meaningful way, not just

(41:16):
something that they can do on the weekends, but you know, just
putting in some time and just helping out a community.
I would say they can. They can go to our website, the
Minnesota Agape Movement, which is one of the nonprofits that
I'm a part of man, and our mottois transforming St. energy into
community energy and trying to put the neighbor back into the
neighborhood. And this is mainly in the George

(41:38):
Force Square. They can also check process of
change. One of the brothers I grew up
with got a corner store on 36th and Chicago and he has a bunch
of books in there, man, just to read.
Reading was so healing for me. And then I started writing and
that's how my book came about. I was well, working with this
professor at Mount Marty Collegein Yankton, SD, at this prison

(42:02):
camp and eight months out of theyear, man, he would come by and
do a writing workshop. Man, I did this for like 4 or
five years, wrote us some stories.
And this was part of my healing process, man, I didn't, I didn't
know how that was. And then I feel like reading
took me mentally somewhere else where my body couldn't go.
So I was able to roam the world through books, man, just

(42:23):
reading, because I had all this time to kind of redeem it.
And that's what I did. I redeemed it.
A lot of brothers go to prison, start working out to come out
looking good, buff, but they don't really have no substance
to them. And I wanted to come out the
opposite. I wanted to work on my heart
muscle, on my mind muscle. Those are muscles too, but a lot
of people don't work on them. So that was really a part of my

(42:44):
unpacking trauma. So if said, I said to myself,
why wouldn't this creative writing healing circle be able
to work out here when I know in this specific area you have a
bunch of trauma going on and a bunch of different reasons.
So it's been working out man, and I love it.
You're writing now. You may be right.
This man, you think you're whiteman now look at you.
OK. All right.

(43:04):
I see. White man.
I'm joking. Reading used to be illegal for
black people, man, no. That's what I'm saying.
You're white man now, you know. My brother put it in the book,
man. Hey, we got to have some ass
man. This is an emotional ass podcast
so far. Dear Jesus.
Yeah, yeah, got to have. It so this right, I'm going to

(43:31):
stick on this real quick and then I assume we're going to
pivot into more of your book. But I don't mean it's hard for a
lot of men to put in this real emotional introspection work,
reading, writing, right? It's easy to build up that hard
exterior. Like you said, your daughter's
got your mom's got you had when you were younger, all the dudes
you probably knew some of these bad ass little kids, good kids.
Sorry that you're working with now.

(43:54):
So how it's got to be hard to like write and to like read and
focus, right? Because a lot of black folk,
brown folks, Obama's got some like mental health issues,
dyslexia, learning disabilities,ADHD, really hard to like read
and write, man, a lot of trauma fucks us up and we can't read
and write and I struggle with it, right.
I tried to write a check today. I wrote it wrong three times,

(44:16):
twice. Then my brother and my dad took
the pen from me and his arthritis so bad so he couldn't
even write the God damn checks. And then I had to add white man
write the check. So it's a whole hilarious story
of how how many people does it take to write a check 3 besides
point. So how did you work on this
craft of like reading and writing like it had to been
hard. I mean, it's a process.

(44:38):
I mean, when you're confined, man, you learn to be patient,
man. You're a bound of people from
all different walks of life. You don't all get along man.
But you have to be patient because it's a line to a line to
a line to a line. And I share that in my book.
Like for instance, it was 3 units that are in and they'll

(44:58):
inspect them every week and determine on how many
infractions your union has. That's the order you go to the
child hall. So the cleanest 1 to get first
and then they don't, they don't give you enough time between the
1st and the 2nd and the 3rd. So you guys are all rushing to
the child hall and it's a line outside the door.

(45:19):
You get in there, now you got a line to go get your Jews to go
get your condiments, go down, sit down and eat your food.
Now it's a line to go and throw your stuff away.
It's a line for the shower. It's a line for the e-mail, line
for the phone. So you have to exercise some
type of patience, man, or you'lldrive yourself crazy.

(45:39):
I mean, that's, that's one of mythings.
And I know my wife being calm down.
Take a deep breath, man. Just slow down.
And then we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll make less mistakes.
This is, I get up, I live 5-10 minutes away from my job.
I'll get up two hours before I got to go anywhere just so I

(45:59):
don't feel rushed, so I can takemy time and, and, you know, walk
it through. Yeah, I mean, I've been
programmed to be like that, programmed to get up like 5 some
in the morning and just take my time, man, Stretching, exercise
and reading, do some push ups, some jumping jacks, man, just to
get my blood flowing so I can take my time.

(46:21):
And, and life is all about, you know, learning and growing.
And the more you learn to grow, the more you you going to, the
less mistakes you're going to make.
So right, this this podcast is big on like neurodivergent
folks. Traumas is a divergent and like
I said, he was reading and writing and mathematics.
It'd be really hard for folks. So patience.
You talked about patience. Patience.

(46:42):
Go at your own pace. How does one happen?
Think of sports. Think of sports for instance,
they say once the game starts coming to you, it's just going
in a different speed. I mean, look at look at Dwyane
Wade. He wasn't the fastest, he
couldn't jump the highest, but he was effective.
And some of the greats, man, once the game came to them and
it wasn't nothing you could do once they figured it out, the

(47:05):
the Lebrons, the Kobe's, the Jordans, the GOAT, I throw that
in there. I.
Already know you. I know, I know.
Dirk Novitsky. He the goat.
I know. Greatest white man I ever seen
play. Matthew, So you know you're in
the matrix. Question so so the biggest thing

(47:26):
is a lot of folks deal with is right feeling stupid doesn't
matter who you are what raise creed nationality religion is so
a lot. I see a lot of poor folks like
me used to be feeling stupid is hard and so reading and writing
right and trying to learn. I have a shirt in here from the
Mark Lamont Hill right big advocate love it.

(47:47):
Love him as a person love him asa black man love him.
It's an advocate for social justice and rights, Palestinian
rights as well, too, not just American black folks.
And the shirt says book saved mylife.
And I've been wearing it for years.
And people be reading it and shit.
And some people will dab me up. A lot of, you know, white folk
look at me like, what the fuck? But yeah, bitch, save my life.

(48:08):
Like, give my education. Save my fucking life.
So I struggle and a lot of us struggle feeling stupid feeling
quote, UN quote, retarded feeling quote, UN quote, special
Ed feeling quote, UN quote, you know, embarrassed and like we
stutter when we read and all this.
So how do you patience is key, but how do you grant yourself
grace when you're really trying to write or read?
How did you do that? I don't know if you struggle

(48:29):
with that, but grace is really hard.
Forgiveness is really hard for like a lot of our community and
then we hide under masculinity. So how'd you go about grace for
you? And like, how do you go about
grace for like the kiddos that you work with?
I mean, we got to quit worried about what other people think of
us. Think of the most important
people in your life. How do they feel about you?
That's what matters. What what other people say about

(48:52):
you. They talked about Jesus.
They talked about everybody thatdone some great.
So who are we not to get haters in life?
If you ain't got no haters, you ain't doing something right for
real, for real. And hey, that's that's just the
way it is, man. You got to get out your own way.
And hey, I don't care if you didperfect, people still going to
have something to say about that.

(49:13):
OK. I got to the only bowel syndrome
man. I know how to turn it off and I
know how not to care. Not that I don't care, but I
really don't move according to how other people feel because
when I was at my lowest point itwasn't a lot of people reaching
out to me. So I just try to ignore that.
So do your best not to care, butalso not to compare yourself to
others. Go at your own pace.

(49:34):
Trust the process, be patient. Yes, my sarcasm is a sword I'm
killing with kindness. Just being sarcastic, that's my
weapon. Minnesota Nice right there you.
You heard him right now, FBI he is Black man with a weapon.
Yeah, shit. You know he's only having the
weapons now. My.

(49:56):
Sarcasm makes the matter then when I used to cuss him out.
I know that's something. Isn't that something?
You can yell at somebody and it'll be like, whatever, as soon
as you sarcasm then they go like, fuck you, like, Oh well,
all right. My weapon of choice, man.
OK, it's. A good one not going.

(50:16):
To lie, it's a good. One FBI He got no weapons.
No, no, Evans. Just his words, with just his
words, probably his deem is probably just as dangerous.
I'm not going to lie, right? Jesus Christ, fence.
That's the racist shit. But you're right.
Not Mortar said the pen is milder than a sword.
There you go, it is. I'm going to kick it back to
Spence, but yeah, we might get into the book.

(50:39):
Yeah, yeah. So you talked about it.
What for you, what is the title The Last Drop of Mad Dog 3030?
What is that and what does it mean to you?
So the last drop of Mad Dog 3030is kind of my alter ego, man.
That's, that's the name that I, I wore for about 16 years in the

(51:01):
street, man, just not caring about stuff.
I was off, off that liquid courage and it, it allowed me
not to care. And once I really start
unpacking the trauma, man, then seeing that I'm, I'm from the
30s neighborhood, that's where the 3030 came in because it was
a Mad Dog. 2020 is the official name of the drink.
And I just, I stayed off that liquid courage, man.

(51:23):
But once I really start, I let it go.
I really started unpacking my trauma, man.
I feel like I left Mad Dog in jail so Marquis can come out and
thrive and live his life and live his best life.
I mean, I'm 49, but I still feellike I got a long life ahead of
me. And just as I'm playing
basketball yesterday, they kept saying who got him, who got him.
So at 49 I'm still moving and grooving like a like a young

(51:45):
folk because he's wrist is stillyoung.
There you. Go all hustle type players.
How did he get a rebound? I'm all over the court, man.
I'm still a little a little quick.
I'm not that big fast, but I'm still a little.
Quick uncle, his Uncle Drew. Man this motherfucker is like a
13 year old Kyrie out there justfucking over these kids like.

(52:07):
What the hell? I mean, they look at me like
this old guy, which I, which, I'm a middle-aged man, but I can
move, man. Middle age is pretty graceful
right there brother, Calm down. See Mad Dog.
See middle-aged. So that Mad Dog, you left Mad

(52:27):
Dog. And so now you're back into your
youths where? Right.
You clean. I got you.
Now I get what you say say. AJ number the number right,
that's. What they say till you get your
ankles broken and you're like, Yep, Yep, I'm not healing as
fast. I'm I'm a jump shooters and all
around hustle player. I don't, I don't really try to
go to the bass. There's too many feet under

(52:48):
there. True.
Yeah, That's really fair. Yeah.
True. You know I like a good foot play
though, you know. I'm sorry.
He looked away too. He looked away too.
Exactly, this is what I have to go through on a daily basis.
Daily. Brother, I ain't gonna lie
though, like real talk, when he said there's too many feet under

(53:09):
there, I can literally feel my ankle snap.
Like that shit hurt just him saying that.
Yeah, Kryptonite. I can't.
Get my game older, that's the thing I need to change but it's
fine. The book, is it start off like
young cat or does it start off like just the kind of like when
you were 17 or just coming up, you going through all the

(53:31):
shenanigans like where? Where's it start?
Where's the middle? How's it end?
So it's a collection of my My first story.
Man is about about some Angel, alady that took me in man, one of
my best friends, grandma when they used to raid the house, she
used to let me come stay with her and her and my grandma were
best friends. So the first chapter it's it's

(53:54):
like 6-7 chapters and the Angel gets her wings.
Her name is Mammy Mammy Washington and she was my
grandma's best friend on my mom's side and her sister and my
dad, my dad's mom. They were bus drivers.
So I'm connected to this lady onboth sides of my family and she
was just like an Angel, man. I've never seen her get mad.
I've never seen her curse. I've never seen her do anything

(54:17):
but love people, man. And she gave me something, man,
that kept me going at times whenI could have easy gave up, man.
And that's how it starts the book, man.
And that's I just wanted to capture that.
And people wouldn't think that Ihad this softer side because
I've never really showed it. And towards the end, man is
talking about my, my grandma, mydad's mom, and how my

(54:41):
grandmother's death changed my life.
And this was my dad's mom, how she had tried to kept, she was a
bus driver. And so for me to try to see my
dad, I used to have to go find her.
And I used to always see her on the bus.
She used to drive the number #9 which was going down 4th Ave.
And then I'd see her after the roller guards because she would
drive the bus from the roller guards back over S.

(55:02):
You know, they had one bus that would go over S on Lake Street
and then they had one would go over north on Plymouth.
So I will see my grandmother's little bitty short, powerful
lady to get everybody on the busto be quiet.
And I'm like, man. And that's how the book starts.
And that's how the book ends. And in between you have stuff
like black thought, you know, talking about like when Donald

(55:22):
Trump was a president. I got stories that you can read
and you be like, man, you would think it was right now, but it
was 789 years ago. So you got everything in between
there, man. Just my, my street life, my when
I was lost, I got something called a resurrection about how
people think they're going, whatthey think they're going to

(55:43):
happen when they die. Rested.
Development is just about people, not.
Growing stunted? I got a story called Gigolo Man
and just about my gigolo life. I thought I was a player and I
was basically just a gigolo Deuce Bigalow man, just out here
first. Thirsty as ever, man.

(56:03):
Super tasty. You remind me of life.
Jingy Lang. Jingy Lang.
Hold on down man. Calm down dude.
Put the log in all the wrong places.
I tell a story about. I tell a story about how, you
know, in the drug game, man, I was actually trading drugs for
older women. So I was accidentally getting
raped on purpose, you know, And I said I'm part of the half me

(56:25):
too hashtag too. Oh, oh, you know what I'm
saying? He said.
Me too. No, we're going to have to
redact that shit, brother. I'm joking.
I'm joking. Man imagine older women trading
off sex. Don't do younger shorties for
for drugs. Ain't no ain't no consent right?

(56:50):
And most people won't share nothing like that.
They'll be too ashamed of it. But I know a bunch of young
brothers that probably had theirfirst sexual experiences through
a crackhead. Imagine that it was real.
So. If you wait a minute before you
get into. It No, no I'm not.
Going If you could hand yourselfyour book, your younger self

(57:15):
your book, what chapter would you tell him to actually read
first? Please don't say gigolo.
Please don't say gigolo. Don't mess with Janine.
Let me. See, let me see, Spencer.
I think I got a story about a black Klansman.
It's, it's about basically telling a young black male like

(57:38):
myself to slow down man, and getinto them books, man, because
education will take you a lot further than then then some
other stuff, man. I'm, I'm 5-6.
I'm you know, I'm playing basketball thinking that I might
have really had a shot at the NBA and I believe maybe if I
would have had the coaching and you know, the push, I probably

(57:58):
whatever my brother that I went to school where he was maybe 16,
so he went to the NBA. We're looking at a muggsy bowls
and Nate Robinson, Earl Boykins.I probably could have had a good
shot, but I got distracted when my best friend got killed, man,
and I just really went down here, man.
But I never gave up playing basketball.
Even throughout my whole foolishness, I would always make

(58:20):
time to go because that was partof my healing as well.
Sports, football and you know, survival mode to have you just
doing a bunch of different stuff, man.
And I never was out there starting trouble or nothing like
that. But if it was on, it was on.
So I I was always the peacemakerin situations and people
probably gave me a pass is because I play basketball

(58:42):
because they'd see me somewhere.They never thought they would
see me at a gym over north somewhere knowing as a South
side you ain't supposed to be over here.
I probably got to pass doing stuff like that because I wasn't
really a trouble starter. So yeah, education.
I've been preaching that for years and years and years.
Education, education, education,education.

(59:03):
Spencer, I'm not sure if you hada follow up question, but I
wanted to get into something he talked about in pre production.
He talked about on how the system isn't broken and how the
system is actually working the way it's supposed to work.
When the hell did you mean by that?
Because I think education is theway out, but I also think that
the government specifically fucks us over to where people in

(59:24):
our communities don't get the education that they need and
deserve. And I feel like you're going to
go on a tangent about many things.
So why'd you say, you know, the system's working the way it's
supposed to? What?
What does that mean? I mean, it's doing exactly what
it's designed to do. I mean, just I'm reading this
book right now called Punish forPunish for Dreaming.
It's about a young lady named Tina L Love.

(59:45):
She's an educator in Atlanta. And just knowing that the Reagan
administration, we're taking away all the stuff that Donald
Trump is taking away. Now, knowing that they have
these statistics that by the time you're in 3rd grade
reading, they'll know whether you're going to end up in
prison. And the fact that they prisons
mimic. The the high schools, the buses,

(01:00:06):
the bells, and they signed it upthis way.
Rockefeller has something to do with it.
And you know, they didn't. I mean, the fact that it was
illegal for black people to readand they try to hide all this
information from you. But, you know, we're overcomers.
We're overachievers, man. And we're going to find a way to
get out of out of no way and just to read books about
Frederick Douglass, how he taught himself to read and

(01:00:29):
actually he tricked to slave owners kids in order for them to
read to him so he can learn how to read.
OK, why is this system doing this?
Why? Why?
Why keep black folks brown folksdown?
Why? Why do this?
Why? Why he was uneducated?
Why he break up families? Why introduce drugs into our

(01:00:50):
communities? Why take away our education?
Or why? Probably, probably because it's
a, it's a business. America is a business and they
they want it this way so they can feel inferior to everybody
else. When in reality, black people
created a lot of stuff that theydon't get credit for it.
But they ain't going to tell youthat if you don't know.

(01:01:11):
They say it's a saying that if you can trick him, you can beat
them. And you know, black people are
really the only race that's going through what we're going
through the way we're going through it.
Everybody else gives help, but they'll tell black people to put
yourself up by the bootstraps and in reality, what you ain't
got no boots to start with? Facts.

(01:01:35):
So I think it's it's it's the inferior thing and then so you
keep black folks down because you're really scared that
they're going to take your place, right.
A lot a lot of white folks, a lot of folks with money, right?
Even some folks with color. I know a lot of Latinos went
against their own fucking rightsrecently in the last election.
And then I have chickens coming on the roost.
I'm I'm not going to try to be mean right now, but what the

(01:01:57):
fuck did you guys? Do a bunch of people did that
man, and they would rather have this guy in the White House than
a woman. I just think a lot of people
that think like that, a bunch ofSomalians voted for him and even
more black people voted for him.It was like up 20% or something
like that. Some it was some very yeah.

(01:02:18):
I was like, oh shit. They're looking at the Democrats
like they've had us in a chokehold and they'll they're
just thinking we're supposed to vote for them and they ain't
really show nothing as well. And where is the middle ground
at where I know Cornell was try to be a independent and he
probably should have got more votes.
I mean, the Bernie Sanders type people, where they at republics

(01:02:39):
that went so far right that theyflipped on to the other side,
the Democrats that went so far left that they're lost, Where is
the middle ground? I try to focus on humanity
because I don't think the system, the government is going
to save us anyway. We have to do it as people that
are walking different walks of life if we want to actually do
something better for the future.Yeah, honestly, it's one of

(01:03:01):
those things too, is that I think a lot of these
politicians, like, they just go too far deep into trying to get
relatable to the voters. And the problem is, is that
younger people aren't reading asmuch.
Their attention span is down. So now you have to do the same
thing as a politician to get on their side.

(01:03:24):
And unfortunately, when we look at actual politicians who are
educators, people who will actually teach us something or
know more than us, I don't thinkwe're going to see that anymore
because now everybody wants to dumb things down because that's
just where we are as a place in the United States.

(01:03:45):
We're getting a lot to in what they call that anti
intellectualism expense. And so we're getting away from
that and it's, it's really hard.And then we try to relate to
like kids, kids that don't even fucking vote.
And so you dip into that pool and you're going super left or
right or whatever. It's wild politics.
So we me and you were talking about how it's hard to be on

(01:04:07):
either side, right? And we'd like to be in the
middle and humans. I saw something recently and
maybe me and Spencer will talk about this in a different pod,
but this is white lady. Spencer teaches kids called Miss
Rachel and she recently come outdoing this thing.
Have you ever heard of Miss Rachel, Dude or no?
No, I'm hoping to look it up. Yeah, she's a social worker that

(01:04:28):
happened to become. She's super Internet famous and
she teaches kids stuff for free on YouTube.
She makes millions and 1,000,000millions of dollars and kids
love it. It's educational content.
But recently she come out, Spence, people are turning on
her because she did a video witha young amputated girl that was
blown up in Gaza. And so she did a little video

(01:04:50):
and she says I'm just for the kids, I'm for humanity, I'm for
humanity, I'm for the I'm for the babies.
How can you be against the babies?
The babies are innocent. He talked about this earlier.
The kids are innocent. I was innocent.
He said he was innocent. As kids, we are all very
precious things. And then the world turns us.
We become angry, this that blah,blah, blah.

(01:05:11):
So it's interesting the world even turns on someone like her,
a white individual, as being like this horrible anti semite
and all this now just for tryingto make sure that we're not
blowing up babies. Mr. Rogers was alive today.
He'd also be hated because he hedid a lot of social things that
people were like. What?

(01:05:31):
Yeah, it's amazing how we hate people.
Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, but that's that's,
that's the unfortunate thing. That's where we're at right now.
But it's coming from the top down.
I mean, if our if our leaders ofas far as authority that are
running the United States are hating people and that's going
to trickle down everybody else, unfortunately we can't allow

(01:05:54):
that to happen. Yes, I was quiet, but I was
definitely agreeing to 100%. We teach this hate or
disdainment for our fellow humans.
We teach the empathy as a curse.We teach that you talked about
earlier, crying, all right, being happy or grateful, right?
This, this big empathy, this bigemotion is weakness.

(01:06:16):
How's the weakness? It's strength.
You reading will be look down upon and getting educated,
right? Just because you've been in
prison, right? People will shit on this.
People will shit on this podcast, even though we're
trying to help and promote you, the community to help people out
in their art reading. We're talking about magnificent
things and people will say horrible things about this or

(01:06:37):
they'll say we're ignorant or we're dumb ourselves.
It's guaranteed to happen. Like you said, if you're not
doing something and people's nothating on you, you're not doing
it right. It's just amazing and how the
world is though. You try to do something good and
they throw shit on you. So, gossip.
Correct. So you, I want to pivot on

(01:06:59):
something. So this you have this wound or
scar or let's say this scarlet letter on you, which is
incarceration and all that otherstuff.
You talked about wearing some ofthese things as a badge of
honor. How does one go about wearing
this as a badge of honor, right?This is something that people
normally are ashamed of, right? And they don't reform blah,
blah, blah. The world looks at it.
You certainly how do you wear this is a badge of honor to go

(01:07:21):
on the community and help out. Isn't there like shame of all
the sins that you've committed? Not necessarily it it, it shows
that I've been through some stuff and I overcame.
I mean, if you've never really had a test, how can you give a
testimony? I mean, this is, this is what,
these are the better stories. I mean, because I walk in some

(01:07:45):
places, man, and I'm probably the less educated, the less
money, but yet I get treated as if I'm one of the people that's
actually in there to try to do something positive.
People flock to these these goodstories because if you don't
have no story to tell, then hey,how can people feel like they
can relate with you? People don't care how much you

(01:08:06):
know until they know how much you care.
Or how much you've been through,right?
They want to know what do you have in common with me?
No more than just you look like me.
But can I be you? Right.
Can I what have you? What have you overcome question.

(01:08:27):
I'll give you back the Spence ifyou were a little boy right now
talking to you, you would you beproud?
Would you be like, I fucking love this guy, This guy's deal
is all. Would you be proud of you right
now as a little kid? Did you look up to this man that
you are now? Yeah.
Me or Spence? No, you that Spence, his little
kid probably been. This guy's a piece of shit.

(01:08:49):
Yeah, he's already ashamed of me.
That's fine. Yeah, dude.
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gladder about the, you know, what I'm
becoming versus who I was. Man, I'm glad I don't look like
what I went through. I mean, I feel like the roads I
grew into concrete, man. Some, like Tupac said, Man, he
did a, he did a bunch of great work in a short amount of time,

(01:09:11):
man. That's why they killed.
Him right, I get to see, I get to look back man, and I see some
of my brothers and sisters that are, are really messed up man,
through mental health. Some have passed, some are in
wheelchairs and and it's a sad situation man.
And I don't look down on them like even like today, matter of

(01:09:32):
fact, I'll go grab a bunch of Donuts from this bakery and if I
see a little homeless encampment, I'm pulling over and
I'm like, hey man, have y'all had something to eat today?
And I'll pass him out to them, man.
And a lot of that stuff goes behind the scenes and nobody
sees that side of stuff. And I don't how can we help
these other human beings, man? I don't care what their living

(01:09:54):
situation is, how can we help them?
Why you? Why?
Why is it? Why is it you to help?
Why is it you? Why have you taken on the role?
Why not? Perfect answer.
The much is given, much is expected.
I'm too blessed to be stressed. He sounds like Coach Prime

(01:10:18):
sometimes. You know you sound like Coach
Prime, right? You know you sound like Deon
Sanders sometimes, right, brother?
You got the glasses too. I've seen him in the glasses.
He's just like, all right, youngboy, let's go.
And pretty. Go ahead, Spence.
I mean, yeah, I mean, I've, I'vehad all my questions, but please

(01:10:38):
tell us where can people help support, where can people find
you on the socials, things like that?
Yeah, let us know. So almost I'm on Facebook, I'm
on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, Ido a little bit of TikTok and
Marquis Bowie, brother Bowie. You can get my book on Amazon if

(01:10:59):
you're out of town. If you're in Minnesota, you can
put up on 38th of Chicago. I'm actually doing a book
signing on Saturday from 2:00 to5:00, 3741, Chicago.
I had some food over there. This lady that I cater from, she
got some nice chicken fried riceand probably going to have some
Donuts and some other little snacks.
And I'm going to be with my daughters, man, you know,

(01:11:20):
helping them. One of my daughter wants some
community service. So this is a way that she can
take those letter back to her school, show some community
service that she's doing, and for me to go see her this year
and pick her up. And she had a creative writing
class holster on her wall showing that she's doing
something that her dad is doing Is that's man, that's, that's it

(01:11:41):
right there. We'll get to hang out with them,
man. That's the that's the beauty in
that man. We will make sure to promote you
as much as we can. Spencer's going to tag you on a
bunch of stuff. I'm going to tag you websites,
your book, blah, blah, blah. We're going to, we're going to
do our best to promote this, butalso the community.
Yes, Sir, let me tell you this, the Minnesota Agape movement,

(01:12:01):
man, this is our logo for that while here transforming St.
energy into community energy, man and just being being the
ambassadors, man of of the community man.
It is it's important that we do it because in the neighborhood
where we're at, ain't nobody going to change it.
But the people that are are there man, that are really not
chasing money and we haven't been having a contract for maybe

(01:12:25):
three years, man. But to collectively working on 9
to fives, man, me and three other people actually pay like
$2000 a month for the rent. So we can still be a visible
force in this in the George Force square.
So some of us got 2-3 jobs, man,just to help pay rent apart from
our, you know, own places where we live at.

(01:12:48):
That's the crazy part. What would you say?
Appreciation for that? What would you say to anyone
struggling, Black, brown, Hispanic folks in your
neighborhood, whatever it is? Who would you say to anyone
struggle what? What would be your thing to tell
anyone struggling to exist, to live, to stay educated, the
doubting themselves? I got, I got people that are
going to be listening to this brother that, that are thinking

(01:13:09):
about suicide daily. What would be your word of
advice to the people that listento us just from you?
You as a person, you as a man would be your advice to them
today. I mean, whatever situation you
might find yourself in, man, it's only a temporary situation
for the most part. And this too shall pass, man.
And I remember talking to one ofthe one of the guys in in prison

(01:13:32):
man, and he gave me the definition of humility.
And it wasn't thinking less of yourself, it was thinking of
yourself less. True definition of humility is
not thinking less of yourself, but just thinking of yourself
less and just be grateful, man. I'm I'm, I'm a grateful
individual, man. I don't I sometimes I'll be I'll

(01:13:54):
be confused of how I'm how I'm not negative, but hey, but God,
man, I got to do something I really like.
I've met some wonderful people man, and I again, I thank you
guys for allowing me to be on these platforms because most of
my platforms was arrested, arrested mugshot type stuff.
So. Well, you might get arrested

(01:14:15):
after this too, you know, Why don't you said some black stuff,
I said some Palestinian stuff. This ain't looking good.
You got a weapon and shit. So and.
I'm part of white so I get AI just get away with it.
You might just like see you later.
You can't. Do nothing for me on what's
already been done. And just I, I remember Dave
Chappelle said something like that, man.
I got a chance to meet some people like Dave Chappelle man,

(01:14:37):
and he walked and talked with usman, and what's happening on
38th Chicago is basically do theright thing all over again.
Spike Lee joint just to throw a movie in there man and to meet
people like him that were big Prince fans man and not they
did. They just came and took a
picture and left, but they walked and talked with us for
like hours, bro. And I wish they would have done
more as far as bought something for the community, but they came

(01:14:59):
and blessed us with their presence man.
And, and, and you get to have the community around people like
this because some of the people that I grew up with ain't never
going to see nobody like that, man.
So for us to get to meet people like the Spike Lee's Dave
Chappelle, which kind of two of the good dudes, man, that I,
I've met even like a Jesse Jackson and a lot of the George
Floyd family, man. Some of the brothers that, you

(01:15:21):
know, his brothers, man, they were real, some real down to
earth type people, man. And I can't imagine losing my
loved one in front of the world and having to grieve and having
to talk about that almost every day.
And anywhere you go, somebody's going to recognize you.
I'm not at I'm not at that yet. But I do have a lot of the
students that little brothers and sisters see me when they
come to the games. They're like, I want to play on

(01:15:42):
your flag football team. And I'm like, OK, got the age of
6th grade and hey, 9th grade, I got you.
He's like Riddle me this and then gives them a Riddle like
what the hell are you some trollJesus only?
We get on the team. Only got a team and a team and a
donut. You got to answer me a fucking
Riddle. You got to start recruiting them

(01:16:04):
early, man. You got to get them thinking.
Yeah, you got to get them thinking.
Man, appreciate you brother. Love everything that you're
doing. I love that you were able to
change your life. You know, it's extremely hard
and maybe it was easier for you,but I know it's hard for a lot
of brothers. One sisters too.
Takes a lot. I know my dad had troubles this

(01:16:25):
and that and we had some extremely tough years and it's
just hard for a lot of families.So thank you for doing your
thing and and doing good for your kids.
Much appreciation, much love to you and your family.
And Joel and B told us to trust the process, man.
And I'm trusting the process. I'm not cutting corners, man.
And everything's been working out.
Of course, I don't have the finances that I would love and I

(01:16:45):
don't have the car and all that,but it, it's working out, man.
I don't, I don't want for nothing, man.
I got everything that I need andmost of the stuff that I want.
So it's going to work itself out.
Hopefully a little bit better than John B's knees, but yeah,
OK. Yeah.
And it's bad. That process is over.
That process that process don't be dead.

(01:17:05):
That process has been over for acouple years now.
Whatever. Anyways, yes, Marquis Bowie,
husband, father, mentor and alsoman can dress.
He didn't think I was going to say anything.
And also Arthur, author too. But you know what?
He can dress too. He didn't think I was going to

(01:17:26):
say anything, but yeah, I'm loving the outfit.
I'm loving it. One of my names was the
coordinator. One of my home girls in our high
school named me the coordinator man.
And she was like, I'll make those drawers match.
Shut the fuck up. The man.
The man of many titles. Yeah, many titles my drawers
match too. My skin, they're brown.
You got to read the book that's I got.

(01:17:48):
I got a story about that man, How?
I'm just confused and I'm playing these many roles, man.
And it's it's a story about, oh,what is that about?
It's about me. And any given day, I'm a
different person man depending on the man.
Adaptive movie. Crazy mixed up story?
Yeah, crazy mixed up story. Amazing.

(01:18:10):
All right, everybody go get the last drop of Mad Dog 3030
Amazon. Or if you're in Minnesota, go
down to George Floyd Square. You can also get it there.
Marquis Bowie, thank you so muchfor being on.
Yeah, And that's it. As as always say everyone,

(01:18:33):
remember, take care of yourselves.
Or don't. It's.
Completely up to you. Much love, peace, peace.
Tony, Tony. Tony.

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