What Grey’s Anatomy Gets Right About Depression and Suicidality | With Sarah Finch, LMFT - Different Spectrums Podcast ™️

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Attention Welcome to the Different Spectrums podcast.
We dive into the wild world of mental health discussions.
Get ready for profound talks, a sprinkle of humor and sarcasm,
and a touch of colorful language.
Just a quick heads up, our show reflects our individual
opinions, which may not align with the standpoint of the

(00:21):
podcast, our featured guests, orany related corporate entities.
Our mission? To illuminate through laughter
and satire because everyone needs a good chuckle.
Chill out and don't stress over the small stuff.
Legal troubles? No thank you.
Cancel culture, please spare us.We'd rather keep this space

(00:43):
lawsuit free, So buckle up, havea good time, and join us as we
navigate the vibrant realm of mental health on the Different
Spectrums podcast. Hey, everybody, we back again.
Hey, we're back. We're live.

(01:03):
I'm Spencer. Of course, we have our licensed
clinical therapist, Nas, Doctor Nas and their fingers.
It's coming back. I'm getting feeling in it now.
You see that he's he's got mobility now.
How'd that happen? Shove it right in the lawn
mower. Smart.
Yep, smart. I know learning experience.
I used it to help other clients and learning experience choices.

(01:27):
Don't put your finger in a blade.
Wow, Nas, you're teaching us a lot.
Of stuff I'm teaching the kids I'm trying.
To teach like majority kids likeyou teach, you're like a
therapist for adults. You're like, let me teach you
something. Don't put your finger in a lawn
mower. Don't do what you do.
You don't want to do it. Don't do it.

(01:48):
Don't do it. Don't put your finger in, and
also don't put it in an electrical socket.
All right, That made me lose my hair anyways.
Boom, gotcha. All right, don't forget to run
those lights for us. We'd really appreciate it.
So today we have a special guest.
She is the founder of Needle Individual and Family Therapy, a

(02:11):
practicing LMFT dedicated to honoring neurodivergent, BIPOC,
LGBTQIA plus, and marginalized voices.
With over a decade in the field,she brings trauma informed,
psychodynamic and a culturally sensitive therapy to those who
have felt other. They also also say

(02:33):
neurodivergent peer groups rooted in mutual support and
authenticity. Please welcome Sarah.
Finch to the show. Thanks.
Thanks for having me. Yay.
I'm so happy to be here. You have.
No idea what's coming. You're terrified.
It's fine. What?
Has happened like has it happened yet?

(02:55):
Is this the bear I was told about?
Man versus bear? Can I choose bear Sarah's?
Like can I choose bear? Right.
Any who, thank you for coming out to the show to me, Sarah.
We really appreciate it. So your intro was making me
emotional. I was like, wow, like I I do

(03:16):
that that. Told me you got do a lot of
shit. This is fucking.
You're legit. Blessings, blessings are you
blessings on blessings on your family.
That's not how it goes, but all right anyway.
You girl said blessings on your cat.
No, I'm I'm mixing up Mulan withfucking.

(03:36):
Yeah, what are you talking about?
I'm special Ed man, and I can say that because I was for my he
was the opposite of blessings. It was, he said, dishonor.
Yeah, there you go. Oh.
Yeah. Keep going I.
Know you're Disney, You're goingto get a lot of hateful DMS.
I know I dare you. Why?
Someone gonna want to have to doa Mulan episode now.

(04:00):
Feel like we did this. We did 1 long time ago, back
when we were so ghetto we need. Another one now we.
Need a good one to update it. We need an update, yeah.
Just anywho, we are actually talking about the show today.
Grey's Anatomy. Yes, yes.
Which is hilarious because myself and Nas never see the

(04:20):
show. I know.
Gasp. Crazy.
Never heard of her. Oh my gosh.
And in some cases, we call it Greg's Anatomy.
I'm not going to lie, I thought it was Greg's.
They just made Greg. I don't know.
Who's Greg? Greg.
Who's Greg? It's like the mind, isn't it?

(04:42):
Gray Matter. Is that what's about?
Gray matter Gray. Anatomy.
No, it's the same. Characters last name is Gray.
Get the fuck out of here. That's just, that's so bullshit.
That's just selfish show title. Anywho, Gray.
All right, so. Hey, Greg.
I've watched the show enough times for you guys.

(05:05):
You guys haven't seen Oh, you'regood, but.
I've. Oh, we're going to be asking you
a lot of questions, A lot of questions.
Don't you worry to. Be fair, I'm the therapist that
didn't read any of the books so I figured it out.
Not there like 20, like, love triangles also.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good stuff.
Yeah. Medical professionals, they be
doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the

(05:29):
stereotype, but not an incorrect1.
So today some of the topics we're actually talking about,
we're talking about trauma. We're mainly going to be
focusing on Meredith and her traumas.
Also her being passively suicidal, high functioning
suicidal and impulsive. Apparently Meredith don't give a

(05:52):
fuck. She don't care.
She just, she don't care. She just is like, you know what?
Take me, homie, take me. I'm pregnant, but hey, take me.
You're like, why? Of all the people in the
hospital, you're somebody else. You're.
Going to have to change the nameof the show if she dies.
That's. True, that's true.
Is there a Greg around? I mean, Greg, Where's Greg?

(06:17):
Greg. Where's his anatomy?
I know where it's at. Oh my kid.
Like has to be like 30 years oldby now, isn't?
That. Kid got to be like 30 by now.
Oh, on the show you. Don't know what happened.
Something, something bad happened to a kid, didn't it?
Oh my God it's so fucking sad man.
No one can have. Damn it.

(06:38):
Bullshit. Can't we just have one fucking
happy moment? Nope.
Such a sad. I'm just watching.
Scrubs. OK, let me just watch Scrubs.
Yeah, if that gets sad, don't get me wrong, it gets sad.
But Terkelton and JD. Love a good white and black
couple. Any who?

(06:59):
Yeah. It's the best black and white
couple you've ever seen, Annie. You'd be missing out on MC
Dreamy. MC Steamy.
Look, look. Yeah.
Like Doctor Cox is our fucking MC Steamy and MC Dreamy.
He does it all. Scrubs.
All right, I'm. Gonna have to look into that.

(07:21):
You. You should.
And he was. He.
Is that the police officer? Yeah.
Who's the Who's the ginger that's angry?
He's more. Blonde.
He's more blonde than ginger andalso he was the cop in the movie
Wild Hogs where he got naked. Great movie.

(07:45):
We're so. Off topic, I don't know what's
going on. There's a redhead in Grey's
Anatomy if you're if you're if you're feeling the redheads.
And they're dead. No, I told you he survived to
the end. Boy.
That one I don't know man I'm soconfused.
I didn't. See his hair so I didn't see his

(08:05):
freckles though, so I shouldn't know.
I. Saw his penis.
Did I tell you that Jesus Christ?
Saw his anatomy and his name is.Greg, we're going to have.
Some fun today, obviously. That's what we always do.
That's why a lot of people TuneIn to us to actually have
some relief, to dissociiate fromthe chaos of the fucking world
that we're in. But we're going to talk about
some real topics. Yeah.

(08:26):
That functional depression is legit.
I think we're going to see it a little bit different, more
nuanced than before. I think Sarah's going to help us
understand there's more nuanced,favorite high functioning a lot
of women are going through. There's a lot of women of color
going through this thing. Well, you got a suit up.
You got to get your shit done. But there's still this this
thing, this demon that's under, you know, eating you up.
And then we're going to see kindof what it can do and maybe what

(08:47):
impulsivity can look like. We have some other conversations
about other black and brown folks, especially men.
And how they may do what she does in the second scene.
But I'm excited. Hopefully you'll be able to
withstand all the wildness and and the autism.
But we'll see what happens. There you go.

(09:10):
Let's do it. I was going to make a joke.
I always make. I always just say like, I don't
know. I would make the seat belt
motion I would say. Strap.
Strap it on. I don't know why I would always
say strap it on. Why don't you look?
Me in the eyes when you see I'm.Not saying what?
That yeah, say it, Buckle. It in I figured it out after
like a year. So you went wrong.
All right, buckle up. Buckle.

(09:34):
There you go. Why couldn't I just say that?
No, no, no, I said strap it on. I don't.
Who does that? You.
I got the guy who puts his finger in a lawn mower,
surprisingly. But other things too.
All right, let's do the pod. Whoop.
Whoop. Whoop, whoop.

(09:57):
Say woop, woop. Say woop woop.
Me. Yes, woop woop.
I told you, she said. The bear, she said.
The bear thing. That was the bear.
That was the bear. No, I told you that was the one
awkward moment that you just have to mirror us.
Yeah, I knew she wouldn't get it.

(10:18):
I missed it I'm. Sorry.
Sweating a little bit, like why are they staring?
At me. I was like is it pressing pause
now? Is it done all right?
I'm ready now there. You go.
She's excited. Yeah.
Don't you mask with us and code switch.

(10:39):
Not the first, I had a lot of caffeine today.
Oh, you did? Yeah.
Had a good day. Hey everyone, thanks for
watching our show today. We just wanted to take some time
to give a special shout out to our collaborator Cat and Raven
Design. They are a small queer owned
business that specializes in LGBTQ plus pride soaps.

(10:59):
They have great designs, some that even look good to eat but
don't. You can get 10% off your entire
order if you use the code DSP orgo to our link tree.
Help support this great small business and help give back to a
great community. Like I said, disappearances

(11:25):
happen, pains go. Phantom blood stops running and
people people fade away. All I made is a better song to

(11:54):
make me better. Much better.
All I need to write is a better song to make me There's no more.
I have to say much better, so much more.

(12:26):
But I've disappeared. I feel better, I feel.

(12:50):
Maybe I shoot you first. I shoot you and then I shoot her
and then I shoot Shepherd. Is that what you want?
I didn't come here for this. My wife is dead.
He's responsible. I came here for justice.
An eye for an eye. The only person I want in this

(13:12):
room is Shepherd. Now back off and you step with
me, Titan. Peace.
Shoot me. You want justice, right?
Your wife died. I know what happened.

(13:33):
Eric told me the story. Lexi Gray is the one who pulled
the plug on your wife. She's my sister.
Doctor Weber. He was your wife's doctor.
I'm the closest thing he has to a daughter.
And the man on the table. I'm his wife.
If you want to hurt them the waythat you hurt, shoot me.

(13:55):
I'm your eye for an eye. I've heard.
You tell Derek that I love him, and then I'm sorry.

(14:16):
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
She's pregnant. You wouldn't shoot a woman who's
pregnant? Please.
No apologizing aloud. We're being ourselves.
Exactly. That's what we're here for.
And guess what? We're back again.
We're back. Again to watch Greg's Anatomy.

(14:40):
Just watch it. Just going to watch it.
Dangle you. Know the visual in all its
glory. No, not my synesthesia.
Blocking out the sun. God damn.
All right, I'm done. That's.
A big one, Greg. So Sarah, welcome to the show.

(15:07):
Yes. Why don't you tell us a little
bit about your background and what made you want to come on to
this podcast? I'm so sorry.
Well, I think we have a lot of the same, like a lot of similar
values. And that feels really important

(15:28):
to me. Like I kind of only want to
connect to people that like, they have similar values, you
know? And I love hanging out with
other neurodivergent folks and Ithink you guys are awesome.
And yeah, that's why I'm here, really.

(15:49):
Do you know Oh. Sorry I was going to ask, do you
know any? Other autistic therapist or no?
Thankfully, I do. Yeah.
Yeah, we have a couple. We found each other and we have
a couple of other autistic therapists on our team.
Love it. Yeah, It's been so amazing.
Love it. Yeah.

(16:11):
So if we like say you're in likea group setting, like are you,
what kind of person are you just, are you chilling out just
listening to people, just seeingwhat they have to say?
Are you like also kind of intertwining into there and also
talking and all that stuff? Or are you more of just like a
listener? At first I'm a listener and I

(16:34):
have to like, feel it out. I get comfy.
Yeah, I really have to like are these people that are sort of
these are these people that are like worth me sharing with, You
know, like there's like a filtering sort of process I go

(16:56):
through where I'm just listeningand observing at 1st to see
like, but I and I kind of dip mytoe and see how it goes, right.
Like I'll share a little bit andthen I might share more
eventually, yeah. And is that kind of like how you
also have your, is that your style of therapy as well?
Somebody who listens and then waits for like the correct

(17:19):
moment and then kind of goes in into like your whole spiel about
how maybe they can better themselves and things like that.
I I interrupt my clients sometimes, sometimes, sometimes
they just have to, I agree. They want, I think they would
want me to either sometimes we just keep going and we go and we

(17:41):
go and, and so, yeah, no, I interrupt my clients sometimes
and just like butt in and say like, oh, wait, you know what
you said right there? Like can we go back to that
right. Like otherwise I think there
might be some sessions, you know, especially if like a
client is going on about like special interests.

(18:05):
Not that I don't want to hear that.
I totally love learning about myclients special interests.
But to like redirect on maybe what I know they really want to
get into, right. I'll, I'll interrupt.
Yeah. Good question.

(18:26):
Are you comfortable telling folks that you're, you know,
neuro divergent autistic your clients is?
I don't know if that's on the website and all that stuff.
Do they know already at A at a time?
I know sometimes I feel weird telling clients.
I mean, I'm always cool with it,but then also I feel like
sometimes they'd be like. Yeah, so I love the just the
umbrella term neurodivergent because it could mean so many

(18:49):
different things, right. So I usually like on the
website, I say I'm neurodivergent.
And then I have some folks that are my clients that are like
neurotypical and whatever that means, right?
And they don't say much about itor never really, you know, it

(19:15):
doesn't come up. But then I have clients that are
like, they're neurodivergent too.
And they'll say like, Oh, I saw your neurodivergent like, and,
and we'll talk about it. And then eventually I, I might
say like, we or, you know, I canrelate to this.
You know, I, I really like, I feel into the self disclosure.

(19:38):
I want to feel comfortable sharing too.
Like one time I had a, a potential client, like I had a,
I had a client who wanted to work with me and we're doing the
phone consultation, you know, like that 20 minute call you
have before you guys decide you want to work together.
And it was, it was going well. Like just like, you know, female

(20:02):
client anxiety. And then she asks me, you know,
oh, can you tell me about your family?
Like are you married? Do you have kids?
And in that moment, like, I didn't really feel comfortable
that I wanted to share about that.
And so I responded with like, that's, that's something that

(20:23):
maybe eventually like as we worktogether, like I would feel
comfortable to, to share about. And I, I did, I know this is
kind of annoying for people, butI kind of turned it back.
Like, I wonder what is it? What about that feels so
important to you, right? Like to get a better sense to
not like reject her in any way or to dismiss that, but like,

(20:48):
it's OK if I don't like want to talk about or share something
that feels really personal and like I feel protective of my
family and like talking about that, you know, so, so.
We are world out there too, right?
I mean, you never know these days, right?
And so you don't know what a person is on a 20 minute phone
call. Right.

(21:08):
Yep. Yeah, I know.
I figured I wanted to ask you, right?
Because I know that self disclosure is a big topic in our
in our community for our clients.
Self disclosure, it's hard for them to do with their companies
or family members. And I know it's hard for us
sometimes. I've leaned more into just being
out with it very, very, you know, because I'm trying my best

(21:29):
to lessen the stigma for everybody.
So I went about it 1 certain way.
I'm also privileged in some of my size and color and this and
that, right? So I know no one's going to be
fucking with me. Yeah, I've done better at it the
last year. I've been doing it even in my
presentations. And so I know some folks will
still use neurodivergent. I was doing that for a while and
I'm like, you know what, I'm going to just send it.

(21:52):
And I think it's opened up some windows and a lot of people's
brains on what they think autismis, because I just gotten sick
of like the stigma and the stereotypes.
And I was talking to Span. So I'm like, I'm just sending
this shit from now on. So then we started telling you
our intersections on the podcasttoo.
So it is grown. I completely agree.
What you're doing makes sense. I just wanted to know 'cause I

(22:13):
don't get a chance to talk to a lot of actual autistic
therapists. So I just wanted to pick your
brain about that. I.
Appreciate it. Yeah, when you share nowadays,
do you do you say I'm autistic and ADHD?
Do you say audio HD? Like what do you?
What's like your preferred way to share that?
So I don't like saying Audi HD because I ain't gonna lie, half
the time I can't pronounce a damn thing, so I don't know

(22:34):
what. Is the dyslexia?
Yeah. Or you ate.
I'm like, no, I'm ADHD. And I'll text it, call me, and
then I say a bunch of other stuff, you know, yeah, straight
up a bunch of other stuff. We're mixing that pot.
And then as they get to know me,they find out the other stuff.
I've had people like, I don't think you're actually autistic
because, you know, you don't seethat disabled.
That conversation comes up in therapy.

(22:55):
Sometimes I'm like. I mean, you don't know me.
Yeah, you. Don't.
You don't know all the weird stuff that I'm doing right now
and regulating and stimming you?You don't fucking know me.
You don't know how I'll just be yelling shit for hours and
Spencer's like, shut up, You don't know.
Family does what the fuck you talking?
About masking with clients, Wildthat like, right.

(23:15):
Like, yeah, yeah, I mask a lot with clients.
Well, you have to, don't you? Yeah, I think.
There's a certain thing like you, you have to protect
yourself in a certain way being a therapist.
And it does come with masking. And we've talked about this, but
like masking doesn't always meanlike a bad thing.

(23:36):
It could be a protective thing. It can also be something of
where you feel like you can, youcan be a little bit of something
just so that you can get ahead alittle bit.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with getting
ahead a little bit if that means.
But the problem is when you do too much like everything else in
life, if you do too much of it, then that's when it comes

(23:57):
problem. Yeah, it's soul sucker.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always different.
Yeah, what other questions you got for a boss?
So you start your own practice called Needo Needo IFT that
focuses mainly around people whoare neurodivergent as well as

(24:19):
LGBTQIA plus community. What made you want to start your
own? You just your own practice as
well as what made you want to learn more until the
neurodivergent side. Yeah, So neevo means nest in
Spanish just so it's just fun fact.

(24:40):
But I wanted to create a practice that was sort of like
the opposite of all of my like experiences, like everything I
wish I had, right. I feel like there are a lot of
therapy spaces for white folks. And not to like put any other

(25:08):
practice down or anything, but it's like the cliche, like wave
in the ocean. And like then you like go on
their website and it's like all these white therapists, you
know, it's just like there's just so many white spaces and
white therapists. And.
And I wanted to create a practice that was specifically

(25:33):
created for the different people.
Yeah, like for the people that feel they don't belong in those
spaces and the the people that are often like forgotten and,
you know, pushed aside and, you know, stepped on, you know, I

(25:56):
wanted it to be like, this is your space and like,
specifically for you, you know, like it has your name on it type
of thing. Like I wanted it to feel that
way. And like, yeah, we do see, like
I, I, we see some white therapists and some like

(26:16):
neurotypical, sorry, not therapist, but we do see some
white clients and neurotypical clients too.
But it's like the space wasn't created for you, just so you
know. Yeah, you're welcome.
Welcome. Here but.
You're welcome here, just don't stay too long.
You didn't say that. I said that.
That's a joke. Yeah.

(26:36):
I'm not getting you in trouble. Question, how long you been
open? So I opened me though in 2023,
so we're kind of newish. Yeah, yeah.
It's terrifying opening on you and doing this thing.
Or were like you were like you were fine.

(26:57):
It's been a lot of work, just like all the hats that you have
to wear, you know. So there are many nights where
I'm like awake at 3:00 AM thinking about all these things
of like ideas and things that I want to do and oh, shoot, I need
to like fix that or, you know, so a lot of that.

(27:20):
But it's worth it. It feels worth it to me.
It's so fun to be around people that are more my people.
It's fun to work with clients that are like, more my people.
Yeah. It just, it feels so worth it.
Yeah. You ever cry about it 'cause
you're so happy? Actually, yeah, I do all the

(27:45):
time. My partner.
My partner was like, Can you believe that?
Like Tito is a thing and that like this is this like the time
it happened? Like you did this?
Yeah, she said that. And I was like, Oh my gosh, it's
crazy. It's crazy.
One of my clients actually, we had been working together for

(28:06):
like a year and a half. And for some reason he hadn't
seen our website. And then he came to our session.
This was the last week. He was like, Sarah, I, I somehow
like saw something. And then I, I clicked on your
website and I read through your website, and he started tearing
up. And I felt so moved.

(28:26):
And he was like, I was just reading everything.
And I saw all the therapists in their faces.
And I felt like I was so represented.
And I just think it's so beautiful.
Like, I love Nito. And I was like, thank you so
much. Oh, my gosh.
Like, yes, this is what I what Idid this for.

(28:47):
Yeah. It's you.
You. Can't replicate that any
anywhere else, right? To see work with your own
people. Sometimes I'm just being
specific for me, the same skin color.
It looks like your family, right?
Your heritage, your ancestors. And then they're neuro spicy as
shit too. And it's just like a lovely

(29:09):
concoction of like stuff. I don't know how to explain it,
but it's fucking fantastic. Likes my solemn fire.
Don't get it twisted. I love my other YT folks, one of
the white folks. I love them too.
But there's something more special about your populations
and giving back to your people. It just is, just is.

(29:29):
I love that you had that experience.
I love that you did the the practice.
That's cool. How many people did you start it
with? Just me at first.
Oh. Just you OK.
Just me. And then little by little, now
we have 676 therapist. Oh, you big time now?

(29:51):
No, you big time. OK, money back we.
Still feel small, like it's likethe little nest, you know, like
our neo nest. Nest big as hell.
OK, I see you. I see you girl.
Boys best. Yeah.
So how do you really, how do youbalance just neutrality as a

(30:13):
therapist with calling in justice and honoring
authenticity kind of as suggested by being like
apolitical? Oh, I'm not.
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm not. It's a very clear my values.

(30:38):
I feel like Instagram and stuff like that.
Yeah, I, I'm not. And I feel like, you know, if we
look at the code of ethics, there are ways in which it says
we as therapists should be, you know, standing up for injustice.

(31:05):
So I'm doing this up, you know, so I'm not neutral.
OK, There's space for, there's space for all different people,
but it's, it's, it's really a space for like folks that are

(31:30):
being harmed in the world right now.
And like, yeah, it, I, I feel like it's clear where I stand.
For the marginalized populationsthat you work with, Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Yeah.
Do clients know your other identities too or no?
Or is that on the website or right?
So the note's on your. Instagram, but I don't know if
that stuff is like like they know your identities.

(31:53):
Yeah, so I have a few like Latino clients and when we start
to work together, I share like I'm no Sabo, like I Spanish is
my first language, but eventually I lost it.
And so there's of course like that disconnect and I I even

(32:15):
like white passing. So there's a lot of privileges
there that I name and a lot of ways in which I feel like I can
still really connect to folks who are like Latino and on your
way, Latinx folks. And so that's been really fun.

(32:40):
So my that identity is yeah, talked about.
And I when like I'm having a consultation call, like if my
client will say like, oh, I'm, I'm this.
And I'll be like, oh, I'm Colombian, you know, like if
that means anything to you, right.
And then as far as sharing that I'm queer, that isn't really

(33:03):
something that I share like online.
But when I have queer clients, Iwill share that on the call or
or in my work with them. Yeah, just feels that one feels
like a bit more protective for me.
I feel a bit more protective of it.

(33:25):
'Cause you can tell by your media that you're queer firming,
right? The business, right?
That's the whole thing. So I feel like most times we'll
be like, you know, you probably,you might be, you know.
You probably see a real big allyyou.
You're more than an ally, you know Jesus.
Yeah. I I just wondered.
I wondered. That's a good question though.

(33:45):
Yeah. Do you have any favorite books,
a podcast, or a show that inspires you at all?
Grey's Anatomy. That's not a book or a podcast.
I. Don't know if that's inspiration
anything. I like the DS.
I kind of want to ask Sarah, like, are you OK when you're

(34:07):
watching this? I just want to make sure.
Like this passive Suicide Alley girl.
You, you good. You got a lot of pressure on you
now. I'm like, you, you good.
OK. Just making sure.
Books, podcasts. I love.
What have I been reading? Oh, I love Devin Price.
They're so awesome. I think I read their book

(34:32):
Unmasking Autism like 4 times. Have you guys read?
Yeah. Yeah.
OK, let me look at my shelf. What else I'm trying to think?
You got any nerdy stuff you like?
Are you nerdy or no? I'm not a nerdy.
No, I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know how I didn't get that.

(34:53):
Yeah, my clients, like I have some like dragon clients talking
about like fairies and Dragons and I'm like, that's so cool for
you. And they're like, but you don't
know about it. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I
don't. You giving you giving Starbucks
and hugs vibes right now? No, not that big, you give.

(35:16):
A family girl Pipes. Yeah.
Hide your cup. Hide your.
Stanley Cup, you're dead out of here.
Well, I'm like more. I'm like nerdy in the way where
like I like to like just kind ofstay home and not really talk to

(35:38):
anyone and like I won't talk to people out in public unless they
talk to me first. You still probably.
Don't talk. Yeah, I'm like, what?
I love my dogs. I'm obsessed with my two dogs.

(35:58):
We go hiking, go to the beach a lot.
Yeah, Yeah. I'm like, I love to write.
So like, I write a lot of poetryand look.
At you. Yeah.
You going to write a book soon or no?
Feel like everyone's writing a book?
I don't think so. I'm going to keep my poems to

(36:19):
myself. You're.
Keeping your poems to. Everything's to yourself.
You're very to yourself. I'm starting to notice
something. Let's talk about this trauma
that you're holding. I'm joking.
Lord, Yeah, no, Yeah. Well, I, I imagine you guys can
resonate with this of like, you know, being pretty misunderstood

(36:40):
facts, right? Like you give a little and then
they like make something about who you are.
It's like, fuck my goodness, youknow?
Were you diagnosed? I'm sorry, Spencer was probably
going to ask this. When were you diagnosed?
Being on special? When was it self diagnosed?

(37:01):
Self diagnosed, but I, I do autism and ADHD evaluations now
so I, you know, I'm, I'm like, oh, this is all of me I can just
check all these boxes and yes that's me.
Do I need like a, another therapist to do that for me?

(37:22):
I mean, you know, but when? 'D you put the pieces together.
2022 yeah. 2022 kind of like recently ish.
Do you guys, have you guys ever heard of Indigo Children?
No. OK, so I was diagnosed as an

(37:45):
Indigo child. When I was a kid, my mom was
like, there's something different.
What is this girl? You can't just say stuff and not
describe what it is. Sarah, What is an indigo child?
OK. You have your phone, Indigo
child, don't. Tell me to put on my phone.
Yep, Yep, look it up, Google and.

(38:06):
New Age relieved it. Certain children possess unique,
sometimes supernatural traits and abilities.
OK, these children. Often described as highly
sensitive and intuitive creative, believed to be the
next step in human evolution destined to bring about positive
change in the world. While not scientifically

(38:29):
recognized phenomenon, the idea is getting popular through
books, films and online communities.
Yeah, my dad was just. Like you're fucking slow so.
My mom had me tested for ADHD and and like they were like, no,

(38:51):
she's not super fidgety, you know, I wasn't presenting like
most 90s boy like boys were, youknow?
Calm down. I like the movies.
So yeah, apparently I was an Indigo child, which really like

(39:14):
through time and therapy. That's not a thing, yeah.
Yeah, it's not a thing. Who's?
Autistic. Yeah, exactly.
The indigo people, What is indigo?
The color? What color is that?
It's blue. Is it blue?
Yeah. Yeah, there you.
Go. Yeah.

(39:35):
What else you got for expense? What drew you to becoming a
therapist? My own trauma.
What's? Unpack.
No. It's always the same answer for
all of us, yeah. Trauma.
Trauma. Yep.
So do you? Do you do you relate to Meredith

(39:59):
at all? In some ways I do, actually.
Yeah, the. Way it sounds, it kind of kind
of sounds like, yeah, you know, she was dealing with trauma, you
know, and then trauma, like everything relates.
She's a bad ass, right? She's super smart doing all this
shit saving lives, right? I just don't want you to go near

(40:21):
any pool bodies of water for thenext month, OK?
As your therapist, no bodies of water.
I'll stay away, Jesus. I'll try.
I'll resist. That's.
On you I can't swim. Wild.

(40:42):
Yeah. What else you have, brother?
So I mean somebody, you know, weask this all the time, if you're
not comfortable, let me know. But did you have a therapist or
do have a therapist? Yes, Yeah, yeah, I've had a
therapist. I've been in therapy since like

(41:07):
I was in, yeah, like over 15 years.
Oh damn. OK.
Yeah, on and off. And then I currently have a
therapist and I've been working with them for five years.
So like, you know, little chunksin between that.
But yeah, I, I think it's so important.

(41:33):
Yeah, I love my therapist. How's it in the culture, right?
The Colombian culture just right.
Is that a thing that people do? That's not a thing that people
do. Was like family and mantra for
now about that. Ain't nothing wrong with you.
I didn't fuck you up. What's the vibe?
My mom should. My mom should be in therapy for
sure. Yeah.
Well, shots fired. Love her, she knows this.

(41:57):
Happy Mother's Day. I'll never forgive you.
I remember when I was in grad school.
This is such a, like a sweet, naive thing for me to say.
And I said to her, I sound, as Isay this, I'm probably going to

(42:19):
sound like I was a lot younger than than I was.
But I said, Mom, you know, when I'm out of grad school and when,
you know, eventually when I'm making enough money, I'm going
to pay for you to go to therapy.And I thought that was such a
like a sweet thing, like, you know, like, you know, I want to

(42:41):
do this for you, right. And but she's I don't she she
doesn't really. The fuck you laid away did.
She crash out on you? What happened?
Did you get the fucking chocolate throne?
I know. Seriously, I think she wait, I
don't even remember what she maybe I did get the chocolate
because I don't remember what she said.

(43:04):
Oh, you redacted that shit? Yep, she redacted it.
Yeah. I must have dissociated
probably. Like never asking you that
again, OK. So on that topic, explain what
there is like in the Latino culture, right?
For our folks, maybe that are Latino, maybe they're not
Latinx. What is it like for us, our
population? Is this a thing, not a thing?

(43:25):
Why isn't a thing? Why do you think that people
don't or do go to therapy? In our Latinx culture.
I think that some of the youngerfolks are recognizing how
important and powerful and helpful and healing it can be
for them. They can sort of set aside that.

(43:51):
And I, I think some of this has to do with the way that they've
maybe set aside some of their own cultural things, like some
of their own. There are beautiful things about
our culture. And then there are some things
that maybe we decide we don't want to carry on and, and
continue, right. So I think like some of the

(44:14):
younger folks are are doing thatwhen it comes to their their
cultural overall, like everything cultural related to
their families. But then also with therapy, like
even though my parents won't go to therapy or even though they
think it's weird or they think I'm being too sensitive or

(44:34):
dramatic, right? I know I need this and I want to
do this for myself. And I think it's like a part of
the individuation. I see like the like the 20s,
like the younger 20s, like, do you notice that too?
Yeah, the. Younger populations are a little
bit more cooler with it. Older populations like Spencer's

(44:56):
age and up, 30s and up, 40s and up, no fifties, 60s and up,
you're pretty much getting called slurs.
So yeah, yeah, definitely some discernment.
That's changed. When you said being called
sensitive, A lot of my young women, neuro divergent girlies

(45:17):
are getting called sensitive andin not a good way.
Is that something that you were called by other people or just
family? No, yeah, I was definitely
called sensitive and and very infantilized, like infantilized
for being sensitive. Like it was seen as like only
thing, like only a young thing, sort of like you're older, like

(45:42):
you're too old for that sort of a response, right?
Like you shouldn't be crying. Like, oh, I like, this is a
trauma for me. 7th grade going into eighth grade, they changed
where my locker was. I was so upset.
I was so thrown off. And after the like,

(46:06):
registration, you know, I got back to the car and I just broke
down. I was crying and I was like, you
know, my, my Walker, it's in a different place and I don't know
that hallway and and all my friends lockers are still in the
other locker, you know, the other area.
And I was like, I was having a meltdown.
I was really struggling with it.Yeah.

(46:27):
And my mom was just like, get over like you're in 7th, you're
going to be in 8th grade. You're 7th grade.
Like get over it. Like you're going to be fine.
You know, like, don't you don't have to be so sensitive about it
and dismissive and, you know, just like a very dismissive and
infantilized response like to make me feel like because I was

(46:51):
upset I was doing something thatlike only young people are
allowed to do. Can you guys relate to any of
that? Or.
Maybe. Not like, but me, yes, women.
You were. Yeah, people, people know for
me, like I'm a sensitive dude. My dad's very sensitive as well,

(47:12):
too. My mother did not like that
about me. But my, it's a lot of my young
women who continuously, weekly, daily getting shit on for being
sensitive or crying or dramatic,not liking the way that they
talk, their parents talk to them, blah, blah, blah.
Or do this or not liking what their parents do in the
household, how they cook, whatever.

(47:33):
And then they'll tweak out and it's not big breakdowns, but the
parents kind of attack them likethey're fucking worthless.
These are awesome humans. These are humans who becoming
doctors, lawyers, PhD scientists.
But just because they have theselittle breakdowns or they're
just sensitive with their emotions, just in general
because they're very kind, loving individuals.

(47:53):
They treat like they're and thenthey come to my office.
And they expect me to help them just with emotional regulation.
I need you to give me the skillsnow.
So I'm like, no, no, no, motherfucker, no one listens to
you. And you, when you tell me you
don't want me to listen to you. So I'm going to let you ramble.
No, I'm going to let you. I'm not going to say shit.
And like Spence said, I'm just going to let you talk.

(48:14):
And then afterwards we'll get you some skills.
Because I'm trying to affirm allthe shit that was stripped from
them when they were younger, right?
Yeah. So it's I mean.
Sensitivity as like a superpowerversus like something that's
wrong with you. Yeah, something's derogatory,
wrong with you or that you're not going to be successful,
right. They all think since you're
sensitive or caring, emotional, that you're not going to be

(48:35):
successful. And that's bullshit.
That's probably what's going to make you successful.
Especially my folks that are going into medical practices,
but. I'm glad that you touched on
that because this will help multiple of my clients what you
were talking about because I canbe a sense of big boy.
That's different than seeing someone who looks like you and
talks like you, right? They'll be able to write like to

(48:55):
you and many of our followers. I appreciate that.
Yeah, and speaking about just like your your younger self,
what would you, what would your younger self say to you now if
they could see you? Oh, that's making me emotional.
I didn't think I was going to get emotional in the show.

(49:16):
Yeah, they're emotional. Fuse, Fuse, fuse.
No. That's a tough one, Spence.
Yeah, just amazed. Yeah.
I'm just like what? Like really?
No way. You know, Like, yeah.
You always want to become a therapist.
Or was that something that you know came along with time and

(49:39):
stuff like that? Like would you want to be when
you were growing up? So since about 8th grade or
since about like high school, yeah, maybe 9th grade, I wanted
to be a therapist. Oh damn, that's super early.
Yeah, so I wanted to be a veterinarian at first, and then

(50:06):
I stumbled across the show on Animal Planet, called Animal
Cops, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be an animal
cop, and I'm going to save all these animals from these abusive
owners. Oh, OK.
And so I was like, OK, I'm goingto be an animal cop instead of a
vet. And then I learned more about

(50:30):
law enforcement and police field.
And I was like, those people need therapy.
I cannot be one of those people.That's those.
Those people aren't my people. Well you need therapy too.
So those people are your people,just just white as hell and
racist. Sorry.
Yeah, they're not all racist. Not all cops are blah blah blah

(50:54):
blah. Not all.
I don't know where to tell the line here.
Not all of them are bad apples. But the the sort of 'cause I did
like a cadet program actually. Oh.
Wow, you were doing it. Yeah, 'cause like, you know,
like bro, you the fans want to be a cop you.
The fans bro, I don't you the FBI motherfucker.

(51:15):
I don't trust you no more you snitching ass.
No more talking about you for the people.
I was like, I want to be an animal cop.
So let me see what it's like to like be in that realm, you know,
because my mom, OK, my mom was really serious about like a
career because she was a single mom and she worked on her feet

(51:39):
every single day. She was a she had a hair salon,
she did hair. And so she was like, I really, I
want you to have a career. Like, like I want you to be OK.
Like she didn't want me to have to do a trade.
Not that there's anything wrong with trade.

(51:59):
I think we all need to really respect the trades way more than
we do. They get paid.
But it Yeah. And she just really like was
like, I want something differentfor you.
Can we try to like push you intothat?
And so she was like, OK, do thiscadet program.

(52:20):
And so I was like, I don't, I, I, these are like some they like
yell in your face and no, you know, like it was, it was
intense and not for me. That's.
Not for your sensitive as. Therapy.
At. All Yeah, so spans what the hell

(52:41):
do you want to be in 9th grade? 9th grade, huh?
A. Basketball player.
Basketball. Yeah, that was my dream.
I think I was out of the Ninja Turtle Power Ranger phase by
then, hopefully so. I didn't know about that.
I think you're still in that phase.
You're like paint me green facts.
Put a shell, put a shell on my back.

(53:01):
I already got the hump gave. Me, my scythes, I'm good here.
It's my dad a rat. No, I don't know, man. 9th
grade, you know, man, football was cool.
I'm going to be real with you. Like, this is sad.
The goal was just to like, make sure me and my dad could
survive. So 9th grade, I wasn't thinking
about the future. It's just like, oh, Pops doesn't
go to prison, That's probably it.

(53:24):
So goals weren't set too high back.
Then the goals were hard. Warming.
It really is. Fucking trauma.
Wow, why? He became a therapist.
Yeah, I fell into this shit, homie.
It's everyone knows I fell into it.
Next thing you know, you're goodat it and now you're doing a
company. And I'm glad Spence asked you

(53:44):
the the the question. Like, what would your younger
self? I don't think many therapists
get asked that. So I'm glad that he pushed you.
Yeah. You asked your clients that.
So I'm glad you got pushed on that because maybe we'll make
you, like, happier or like more joyful or more mindful about
what the hell it is and who you've become.
And then you'll be able, like, happier and better.

(54:05):
You can help more clients. Maybe that's why we're doing
this podcast that. Who fucking knows?
I don't know. It is what it is, Spence.
So here. Comes with dumb questions.
I'm down now boy. You bring it, do you?
Sometime. If you could describe yourself
in three words, what would they be?

(54:26):
Tenacious like like when I want something, I don't know, it just
comes over me. I don't know if it's like
autistic, I got perseverated or what, but like I find a way so
tenacious, compassionate, like creative but not in like the

(54:58):
stereotypical sense of the word.No SO.
Like I'm not like an artist, no.So what makes it creative?
Like the way that I think about things, yeah.
The medulla alangada. That's it.

(55:21):
I knew you were going to say that.
I think a lot of people would say that that aren't creative
like me. But we are very creative in the
way we talk, handle ourselves, intellectualized things, process
things, see things, connect things.
Takes a lot of creativity, Some craziness.
Yeah. Tenacious tenacity like that.
Spence, what would you pick? Everyone.
Your followers pick your three things.

(55:42):
Spence, what the hell would you pick?
And then we can get into the scenes.
Jesus. Funny.
Just just overall cuddly, you know?
I, I, I, Yeah. Yeah, you.
Say cuddly. Yeah, he's a.
Cuddly boy, cuddly guy. You know, I grind him.

(56:04):
That's right. I'm a, I'm a teddy bear.
I'll I'll scratch the shit out of you and then probably have to
say just loyal, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause if, you
know, I'm, I'm a ride or die, right, You know, yeah, ride or
die, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how I go.

(56:25):
So I I would have to say those, those ones.
But I do have one more question.Oh, do it.
Alright, one more question. What would you say is a
misconception that people have of therapists and how do you,
how do you yourself as a therapist, combat that once it
comes up? Gosh, there's so many

(56:48):
misconceptions of therapists like every show has ever every
show that's ever depicted a therapist did it badly in my
opinion. Let's see, I.
Feel like I keep thinking I knowI'm going to say something,

(57:10):
yeah. Every.
Every. Fucking male therapist.
They show in realities, always sleep on their clients.
Like non-stop, I'm like, this isfucking.
It's made me terrified to even look at people in the office.
Well, that could be. Also be the autism too but.
I can't look in your eyes. Yeah.
And like, don't even come in, stand outside, motherfucker.
That was what pisses me off so much.

(57:32):
And I get that maybe dudes aren't doing it.
It's like God damn it. And then my biggest send.
Yourself in the back of Therapist magazine.
There you go. We caught another one.
We got another. Pervert.
Yeah, I know. That's my biggest thing, man.
I was just like, dudes, I feel like have such a bad rap and

(57:56):
there's so few of us, and then they think most of us think
we're not connected, have no emotions at all either.
And it's like, that's not true. Dude therapists got got their
shit together too. Everyone's got their flaws, but
dude, therapists get a lot of shit just because of their
gender stuff. But yeah, what do you think?
What's the misconceptions? That's that you think that are
stick out that are appointed to you.

(58:18):
I think right now what comes to mind and I'm and I'm thinking of
like therapists in like private practice settings.
I feel like there's a huge misconception that people have
that like therapists are in thisjob for the money.
And I, I think that clients don't fully understand like what

(58:45):
their fee goes towards that. It's not like we just take home
that amount and pocket, you know, like that's what we get
hourly. It's, it's confusing because
it's like we're not working likeseeing 40 clients a week, like
your stereotypical like 40 hour work week and all the different

(59:10):
ways in which we like have to manage the fee.
So yeah, unfortunately I think therapists, there's a
misunderstanding about like thattherapists are in it for the
money and they just like want tolike have more sessions to like
make more money and stuff. I'm like, no, no I don't.

(59:34):
Like you motherfuckers, you onlymy people only go so long so
far. Get the white lady in here.
I'm done with you. Oh my God, I'm.
Sorry, I got another. One, no, it's true, man.
A lot of people think, Spence, we're just trying to collect a
check. And that's not that's not really
it. It's really not it.

(59:54):
A lot of us are doing it becausewe're sick of the fucking abuse
that's in all the other complexes that we have to go
into. And we want to be on our own and
help our clients see our own clients.
I agree with that. I agree with that.
People like you just want my money, that's all.
You want to see me, it's like, Nah, motherfucker, you just try
to kill yourself. Like you don't think we should
probably meet tomorrow? Like.

(01:00:16):
Nah, son, that's the thing. No, I'm good.
You just want my money. Motherfucker, you got a 0 copay,
what are you talking about? Stamp.
Sorry, copay that. Sucks.
Let's get into the scenes, kid. All right, so, Sarah, do you
want us to what, like what? What is the show like mainly

(01:00:38):
about what is it? What is it about for us, you
know, Grey's Anatomy aficionados?
I love Grey's Anatomy. I'm like, is Grey's Anatomy a
special interest? I need to like, wonder about
that. I think maybe it is.
Grey's Anatomy is about this group of doctors, surgeons,

(01:01:02):
Gray, Dr. Meredith Gray. She's sort of the main character
and her mom was a really famous general surgeon and like 1 like
multiple wards and everything. So she's sort of like in the
what is it like footsteps of themom?

(01:01:23):
What's that saying? Yeah, in the footsteps, yeah.
Is that is that how you say it? Footsteps Shadow.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Shadow, there we go.
Yeah, in the shadow of her mom. And so it talks about her
upbringing and trauma that's like, LED her to adulthood and
to this profession and career. And then it's like this, these

(01:01:47):
group of surgeons and their friendships and their
relationships and how they sort of get through life.
It's so good. In 20 seasons of It Must Be
Good, they've canceled little shows that I'm just like, I want
to see more of this. After like two seasons they're

(01:02:07):
like. Now we're done.
I will probably cry when it ends.
On the final season of Greg's Anatomy, we finally get to see
it. I wonder what will happen.
Will they all just die? Or maybe they all just get old
or they have kids I don't like. I don't know.
What, you think this is lost? Like it was all just a dream.
I know, it was such a shit ending for loss.

(01:02:29):
Let's not even get into that. That was a dream.
They were dead the whole time. Yeah, such a trial alert.
Yeah. I put in all those years into
that fucking show watching commercials, I remind you,
because it was back in the commercial.
Hey, I didn't mind it it becauseit was actually, like, it
actually got a little tear, you know, it was actually sad when
they were all meeting each other.
Yeah. And all saying goodbye to one

(01:02:50):
another, just, like, happy to see one another again.
Then you had all the characters from like, the first season come
on. And they're like.
I know they just you took me on like 50,000 different like
circles of this and that, right?All like we're all dead.
Well, OK, thank. That show, I think like brought
people together. Like everyone knows, lost.

(01:03:11):
Yeah, lost in the prison break. A lot of people that lost in
prison break were at the same time.
Oh. Yeah, yeah.
And that one actor from it was autistic.
I know we're getting, we're getting derailed now, but the
main actor from him, the skinny guy, was autistic.
So this Grey's Grey's Anatomy. Yep.

(01:03:32):
Grey. Like the color Gray?
Like what Sarah's wearing? Great.
I'm colorblind. What are you talking about?
Colorblind, shut the fuck up. Did you just get hooked on this
from a young like young age? Because it's been going for like
20 some years. Motherfucker, you ain't that old
now. Like I've.
Been a fan, I've been a fan for.Your mom let you watch this

(01:03:55):
shit. This is why.
How old are you? Because.
You ain't that old homie, unlessyou go in the. 30s I started in
your 30s. Jesus.
I started in high school. Yeah.
Damn you in your 30s, holy shit you look like you fucking just
got high school. Oh my gosh.
It was so annoying. Someone the other day was like,
you look 16. I was like, that's not a

(01:04:17):
compliment to me, no. No, it never.
You know what? It never is.
Even with my girlfriend. Like, yeah, you know you.
Yeah. You look younger.
She's like, don't say that. What?
What do you want me to say? You look old.
No, I don't win. You don't look your age.
You look your age. What's your age?
I I feel about my age, how like I think a lot of people feel

(01:04:39):
about like talking about weight for some reason.
Yeah, like I think it's it's thetrauma with being infantilized.
There we go. Because you want to be seen as
like innocent or young or naive,gullible, blah blah blah, all
the bad stuff right now. You're brooding, Brooding an
old. You're an old woman.
You're welcome. Just call you Gertrude.
Can't. Wait for I can't wait to grey.

(01:05:00):
I'm just like so ready to rock the grey.
You could. Probably, actually probably pull
it off. And I fucking hate you.
You're probably going to pull itoff.
It's true you would pull out. Grey I hate some people.
You could tell they're going to pull it off.
Oh my gosh, I would emulate Meredith Grey.
I'm done with it. That's it.
That's how you know, I like, succeeded in life.

(01:05:20):
Like. I don't I could.
I hope you drown. God damn it, how do you know
about my dream? Went swimming.
This is my destiny. So yeah, you've been watching
this since you were a kid. I think so, yeah.
Did this shit traumatize you when you were younger?

(01:05:41):
Like there's no. Way I had.
DVDs. Damn, why are you?
Why do you want to be so old? You want to be old girl, you 12?
My friends and I, we had the DVDs and we would like put it in
and we'd rewatch it. Yeah.
We used to rewind by pressing the button and then the tape
would go back. Motherfucker, you watch this on
YouTube TV? Shut up.

(01:06:02):
You ain't, you ain't that old watch.
All the episodes on TikTok what you talking about?
What's that tic tac Jesus tic tacs?
Let me stop. Bullying.
Let's stop bullying her, yeah? Sorry.
Anywho, so the first thing we have, you know, we have
Meredith, right? She somehow gets kicked into the

(01:06:26):
water. Yeah, I thought at first she
could swim. I thought that's why she was
drowning. I was like, I thought she
couldn't swim, but apparently she can swim.
But you know, she's she's passively suicidal.
What is this thing passively suicidal?
What? What do you what does that mean
for people? Like, what's that?
What does that mean? Yeah, it's often where they

(01:06:47):
don't want to live but aren't actively taking action to not
live. Or it can kind of look like, you
know, someone thinking about notbeing here or not wanting to be
here. They have maybe like intrusive

(01:07:07):
thoughts about suicide, but theydon't act on it.
They're not like trying to find ways to do it.
They're not like calling the crisis line like it's like more
like internal and usually like usually pretty private like

(01:07:30):
experience. I feel like some folks don't
even know that it's really there.
Like it's there, but it's not there.
It's just like a like a whisper.No, it's like an echo.
Not even a whisper. It's like an echo somewhere in
their soul, their mind. Spence Feel like a lot of them
don't know, feel like I'm not going to get into it because I I

(01:07:51):
want you to talk a little bit more, but and then I'll get to
this other thing. But I feel like it's it's there,
but it's not there. Spence Again?
Maybe it's that shadow vibe too,right?
The. Fucker's just following you,
just following you. And then something, then
something bad happens or something weird happens, All
right, it hits the apex. And then you're like, oh shit,
you know, I'm sick of this shit.Yeah, yeah.

(01:08:14):
Meredith never like, talks aboutbeing depressed or talks about
being sad or shows that she's like sad or never talks about
like ending her life or anythinglike that.
Yeah. You got clients like that, they
hold it all in and just like a passive, like depression,

(01:08:36):
passive suicidality. Yeah, yeah.
And then we have to, like, bringit to the surface and like,
confront it a bit if they're willing to, you know, like, you
don't want to go there. You don't have to go there.
But have you considered that youdon't want to live?

(01:08:57):
I'm laughing out of my own discomfort with what I just said
out loud, not laughing in a humorous way.
Homie what the problem is. What?
How old are you, Sarah Jesus? No, we got you.
As we talked about earlier, therapists tend to be kind of
dark in their humor as well too,because we see and hear a lot of
fucked up shit all the time. So everyone knows on this

(01:09:19):
podcast that we make a lot of jokes, right?
But it's like serious ass topics.
But no one wants to listen to a serious podcast for like an hour
and a half. That's like, not fun.
Yeah. Yeah.
People be asleep. Yeah, Meredith, do you She's the
one you connect with the most onthe on the I almost said the
podcast on the show or no? Parts of her, yeah, yeah.

(01:09:44):
Just the sad ones. She, she's a bit privileged and
yeah, so like there are some parts of her.
I'm like, bitch, sit down. Like I'm like, stop, you know?
Like she's, she does. She gets away with a lot of

(01:10:06):
things that other people wouldn't be able to get away
with, and that part frustrates me.
But I do connect with her like kind of like dark and Stormy.
And she is really passionate about her work and passionate

(01:10:27):
about helping people and passionate about like, advancing
the field. She has a really fine husband.
He's like, dreamy. He's very cute.
He's dead. Don't remind me.

(01:10:50):
Oh, he's. Actually dead.
Oh shit, yeah he's dead. Saddest episode.
On the show. Everyone's this show, of course
it. Was it was either Oh my God, it
was either a car accident or cancer.
Those are like the two deaths inHollywood.
They're car deaths and cancer. Those are like the only two that
they ever there's. Cancer on the show, actually.

(01:11:11):
Of course there is. Yeah.
Do you guys do like, like beforeyou release?
Like, do you write like? Hey fans, if you're really into
Grey's Anatomy, there might be aspoiler.
No, I mean. OK, so people just know
something might be spoiled if they watch.
Feel like if? You're already watching Grey's
Anatomy. You probably already know.

(01:11:31):
And if you haven't watched it yet, you're not watching this
shit. I might watch it now.
I'm still trying. To like convince you guys.
Come on, girl. I'm just trying to wake up in
the morning. You don't understand, some of us
are struggling. That's such a sarcastic joke.
I'm completely fine. It's supposed to go quiet, so

(01:11:56):
so. Pause, wait a minute.
So what's up? Why did you have this?
Watch this scene though? Like what's going on in this
damn scene? You talked about pre production
so you got a ton of trauma, Mamaissues, all this crazy shit.
Why do you think that she was inthis situation, drowning or
trying to kill herself? I chose these scenes because I

(01:12:20):
think it's so fascinating, my creative like mind.
And I was like, love psychoanalyzing this show and
her character. They don't talk about her trauma
very much. In like a few episodes.
She does see a therapist, but it's like it's because she has
to get signed off to like go back to surgery, like go back to

(01:12:42):
her job. It was like mandated.
And she's very resistant as well.
Like, you know, she's like the pull yourself up by your
bootstraps. Like, I don't want to work.
Let's go, right? So yes, she has a lot of
attachment wounds. Her mom was very neglectful.
Her mom was abusive. Her mom was a narcissistic.

(01:13:05):
I've diagnosed her mom a narcissist based off of what the
show shows about her. And so yeah, she's really
impacted by all of that. And at one point in her life,
the mom attempts suicide and she's young and she's like maybe
like 6 years old and she sees this.

(01:13:28):
That's a big trauma for her too.So she has a lot of stuff that
she has not like worked through.And then she's now this doctor
and there's this like crazy accident that happens and
they're like out in the field. Usually they're like back at the
hospital and emergency brings people to the hospital.

(01:13:50):
But like this was a very rare like intense situation.
There's like this crash, ferry boat crash.
So they like go and she's tryingto help a patient, and the
patient sort of gets a bit hysterical and in shock and
pushes her into the water. She was saying a lot of stuff.

(01:14:12):
I don't remember, if you remember spent.
She was like whispering and she was kind of like fighting.
And then she's just like, I'm kind of done or I, I have no
more words to say and something of the sort, right.
And then you just see her go still.
I don't know if it's just because she's just done with all
the shit and done with all the fighting and life and

(01:14:33):
circumstances, saving people, drama, love, loss, grief,
medical school, all the debt. I'm sure she's fucking went
under Like it's all traumatic, all that their life is
traumatic, schooling is traumatic.
And her and I did quotations when you say creative either
earlier because, you know, you were like creative as in

(01:14:55):
different kinds. She's super fucking creative
too. To be a medical doctor and a
surgeon, you got to be creative,right?
It's maybe not in the version that other people think.
Well, she's innovative, like shecomes up with new surgery
techniques and all these things.Yeah, so.
The more creative and innovative, the more intelligent
you are. All this stuff creates a lot of
pressure, creates a lot of people expectations.

(01:15:16):
I have recently found that I'm getting tired of those things.
But I'll be fine, I'll be OK. I just need a little bit of
rest. It's a bitch.
That pressure, that expectation is this this this perform right.
It sucks. So I would assume that's why.
I thought she was doing that. After you were done talking.
She just gassed. She's a bad ass woman that's
fucking tired. Yeah, I think it's some of that.

(01:15:40):
And I think it's depression, like depression from the way
that, yeah, the, like all her trauma that she hasn't worked
through that manifests into depression.
She like, doesn't confront it, you know, and she doesn't like

(01:16:03):
want to be here anymore, you know, She just is like.
So is that that's the thing withother folks too, huh?
If you don't work on the trauma or those old wound those wounds
or just stay there, you can cause this like this poison
throughout life. Yeah, yeah.
How do you work with clients? Yeah.

(01:16:25):
I love working like psychodynamically and I mean, I,
I use a very like like decolonized, you know,
psychodynamic and trauma informed.
I know some psychodynamic psychoanalytic therapist can
like get really intense and I don't feel like that's very
trauma informed. I like really take the time, but

(01:16:50):
with that type of modality, we're really looking at how past
situations, past relationships have impacted you today.
So while of course it's important to help like manage
what's happening now, it can sometimes just feel like a
Band-Aid over like a really deepwound.

(01:17:12):
Speaking of like wounds and likedoctors, right?
But like, I just see it so I seeit as so important to like try
to understand what's happening and what's causing it instead of
just like, here's some tools andgo out on your way.

(01:17:34):
So like with Meredith, I would like it would be really hard for
her and she would probably not want to do it, but to talk about
and to process her relationship with her mom and what happened
and the ways in which that impacted her and how her mom

(01:17:55):
didn't care about her at all. And so she doesn't care about
herself. And how like that is like a huge
part of the whole show. Which leads us into that second
scene, right? Because that second scene, this.
And then she's pregnant, Spence said too.

(01:18:17):
She's like, just kill me. I'm a baby.
That's kind of wild. I ain't going to lie.
That's wild. That's pretty good.
The baby ain't got nothing to dowith you.
Pregnant woman. Yeah.
You're not going to kill a whitewoman on this show.
This a bluff like what I do here.
I don't. Know not going to say I was

(01:18:39):
going to say So what the hell was that man?
What was that? What was?
That about her, like putting herself in that type of danger.
Yeah, so this guy is upset that the doctors couldn't help his
wife and his wife dies. So he comes back and he has a
gun and he's ready to like kill the doctors that were on the

(01:19:02):
team to like and I for, you know, to to justice in his mind.
And he's really just like grieving.
And, you know, that's not an excuse, but to help us
understand like what's happeningfor him.
And so in this scene, her best friend, Christina Yang, she's

(01:19:27):
operating on her husband. Her husband gets shot earlier in
the earlier in the scene or earlier in the episode, or maybe
it's the episode before that. And so her best friend,
Christina Yang is like, I have to save my best friend's

(01:19:48):
husband. And he's like an amazing, he's
like the best neurosurgeon in the country, like, you know, And
so she's like, I have to save him.
I have to save him. And so the guy.
The the shooter comes and realizes that she's trying to
save the guy he wanted to kill. And then Meredith realizes and

(01:20:14):
wants Christina to keep saving her husband and wants to keep
all those people safe. And so yeah, she's like, kill
me. And it just, it shows like that
passive suicidality, well, in action a bit more of like a
recklessness. Like she's saying like I don't

(01:20:36):
really care about like my life. Like if you have to take a life,
choose me. Like it's not that my life isn't
that important. It doesn't really matter.
Like I'd be good not here, you know?
How after? Let's say she lives and you're
her therapist now what the fuck are you saying to her?
Oh. My God.

(01:20:58):
That was wrong with you. Girl, shut your ass down.
I'm. A baby fucking idiot.
Jesus Christ, why? Weren't we like?
This trying to save everybody. Fuck, leave yourself.
What would you say to her? Real talk, You know her way
better than probably the majority of us are in our

(01:21:19):
listeners. So what?
What you going to say to Old Greg?
Old Greg. Yeah, I think that's hard
because, and this is kind of controversial, but like a lot of
people that don't want to be here, like they have some good

(01:21:40):
reasons as to why they don't want to be here.
I agree. And so, yeah, but with her it,
it's like you must have been in so much pain.

(01:22:03):
You must have really, like, hated yourself this much and
felt like you were so worth nothing.
I would say it in a better way, like over time.
But you know that that that would be it that you wanted.
You would just be fine with yourlife ending in that moment.

(01:22:24):
And it's not in my mind. That's not really her fault.
It's her responsibility of how like where she goes from here
now. But like, I just the she doesn't
view her life as very valuable because of the way her mom

(01:22:44):
treated her. Just like, you know, nothing.
Yeah, you're. Necessary.
So this is actually common spance with a.
Lot of our clients. Childhood trauma, trauma within
relationships, blah blah blah blah.
Leads to people. Devaluing themselves, their
life, their worth, their body. And so they'll do certain things

(01:23:06):
and break their morals, their boundaries, their limits on
their body, whatever it is the money to stay in that
relationship. So we see how that poison
earlier in childhood can manipulate or pervert a lot of
things in which you believe by yourself.
So someone like her, I could seethat she doesn't care unless she

(01:23:29):
will give her body away because it doesn't mean anything.
I also thought maybe she was just trying to protect them.
And she was just trying to do like, the right thing.
I don't fucking know. You think she was trying to do
any martyrdom there? You're like, Nope, she tried to
die. I think because she views
herself as so low, like, so not important then like she's like,

(01:23:55):
I'm the better of the better option out of that.
Yeah, I see what you're saying, though.
And I think, yeah, there's some of that.
But because of like all these other moments in the show where
she does these reckless things, I'm like, this is no one's

(01:24:20):
talking about it. Passive suicidality.
So while they're writing about it, they just ain't talking
about it because it's in the show.
Yeah. It's in the show, it's nuanced,
so certain people like you or people that have been through
it, right, all the humans are like, Oh yeah, I know what it
is. Yeah, yeah.
I sat in the bathtub a few timesand you said she tried to drown

(01:24:41):
herself in the bathtub. Yeah.
All jokes aside, yeah, production spends like I can't.
Fit in the tub. Yeah, it seems like the worst
way to do it. You know, like takes forever
like. You just drinking the water.
My own bath water. Gross, gross.

(01:25:02):
It's going to spit. Up.
Never mind, I'll do it just. Going to push that toaster, see?
That that speaks to though, how much you don't want to die.
See. If.
You really want to die? You drink your own bath water,
Drink your. Own bath water to die there's.
Something else going on? There, that's some dirty ass

(01:25:24):
bath on. Got scrotum water What the?
Hell, he died from his own scrotum bath water.
I've done the water of the scrotum.
It was a terrible, terrible moment.
Fucking Legionnaires disease. We chase.

(01:25:45):
We tested the water. It was purely scrotum.
Oh. My God.
Anyway, you also talked about this thing called high
functioning like suicidality. What is that?
What's that? And does that relate to Meredith

(01:26:06):
as well? Her depression and her
suicidality doesn't necessarily like a get in the way of her
day-to-day work. Like she eventually goes to like
win awards and create innovationlike new things.

(01:26:26):
But this passive suicidality anddepression persists.
You know, like, and, and so it's, it's and like, I know we
don't love that like term like high functioning, but just like
for the, for the way that we know, like what that term means,

(01:26:47):
I would just use it, you know, like, yeah, she's like a
successful doctor, going to workevery day, making money, has
friendships, has a partner, yeah, eventually has kids, you
know, and she's doing all the things while still feeling this
way that she's feeling very quietly, while still probably

(01:27:12):
feeling worth worthless and likebeing OK if she were to die, you
know? And so it's just like, she's
just doing it. Oh wow, carrying all of that
heavy silent, you know. Reminds me, this person I met,

(01:27:35):
you know, right there, awesome person, sensitive is Latino.
They open up their own private practice, right?
Called the you know, they're talking about the cocoon
therapy. You know, that reminds me of
them. I tried to think of something
else with nest but not nest. The SWAT open.

(01:27:57):
Good. One actually.
What else is nest? What else is like a nest?
Thank you. A hatchery.
Kangaroo pouch. She's the pouch.
That's a. Great business.
I was teasing a sleeping bag, anything.

(01:28:19):
Sleeping bag therapy. Cocoon Cocoon therapy cocoon.
It makes sense you're going to branch out a cocoon in this
butterfly. Yeah.
You look like that butterfly from Like a Bug's Life.
Where? He's like a Caterpillar, but he.
Has like little wings. I'm a I'm a butterfly, I told

(01:28:42):
Little. Of my client.
She's like a buff ass butterfly.She sends me a picture of fat
Caterpillar. I said girl stop I.
Can fly. I can.
Fly. I was flying like this.
I was like, why is that Caterpillar gay?
I'm sorry. So cute.
It's so cute. I loved him.
He was so innocent. Yeah.

(01:29:05):
All right, Pete. Didn't he die?
He died, didn't he? No, he didn't fucking die.
Man, he's fucking me up. Man, you're just.
Thinking about death a lot making.
Not everything. Everyone think about that I.
Eat a sandwich. There's not death in every
movie, all right? We all die live in Disney and.
Pixar, yeah, maybe for Pixar, yeah.

(01:29:27):
So the Pixar's fucking sad. Yeah, and they really pick at it
anyways. I love it.
So you also talked about you talk about marriages, mom, but
what about like her dad, right. Her dad, you said was weak and
also like didn't really defend his daughter from her mom and

(01:29:47):
things like that. How do you think that also
affected how she was, you know, just thinking about men or
people in general if you, you know, for the show sake?
Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, he the dad, her dad.
Interesting enough, I sort of saw that and they don't show too

(01:30:15):
much between the mom and dad's relationship, but I see that the
mom was probably abusive to the dad.
And so he, I imagine was in likea regressed place and like more
like childlike and like helpless.

(01:30:38):
The mom also cheated on him. And so I imagine that like, you
know, regressed place, feeling insecure, small.
Yeah. So he, yeah, he did not protect
his daughter. I think he was just in his own
transference too much to be ableto like be that and protect his

(01:31:03):
daughter. He also then became an
alcoholic, Yeah, to cope with probably the stuff.
What happened. Yeah.
And do you think that also affected the, like, what men she
was with too? At all 'cause like, you see this
and then you're like, I don't want that because that's exactly

(01:31:26):
what I was going through. This is the trauma I've been
going through. So I don't want somebody who's
like, weak. I want somebody who's overly
macho or, you know, just the other way.
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because who she
ends up with he he's not yes, he's like the head of neuro,

(01:31:50):
like head of the department and he's like an amazing
neurosurgeon, but he's not macho, which is like in real
life it wouldn't have panned outthat way.
She probably would have like dated some rougher.
Dirtbags. Had some rougher, you know,
relationships before and then she would have gone to therapy

(01:32:13):
and then dated Mcdreamy and Mary.
Somewhere in there I would have been friend zoned.
Somewhere in there I was in the friend zone.
Just just to become. There it goes, Nas.
Yeah, there it goes. I love that fat ball, man.
Why don't you you're. Such a good friend, now good.
Friend. Well, where's that?

(01:32:33):
Where's that body of water at? I'm sorry.
In the tub. Continue with a good
intellectual conversation. You were having Jesus Christ.
Oh. Yes, intellectual.
So, yeah, no. So he's not a Superman, but he's
highly intelligent, right? I assume.
Does he have good boundaries in the show or does she run the

(01:32:55):
show? I think that's what Spencer was
getting at. Who runs the show?
Or do they both run their relationship together?
They both, they both sort of, they really like there's like
this restorative relationship they have and they're very
individual. I will say like they're, they, I

(01:33:22):
mean, I think maybe it's just like doctor culture, like they
don't get to spend a whole lot of time together because of
that. There is a part where, you know,
he is very successful and she feels like he's kind of in the
spotlight and she wants a chanceto like, have these

(01:33:46):
opportunities that he gets to have, you know?
It's like Mary Jane and Spider Man 3.
She's like, oh wow, you're Spider Man.
Oh, you get to fucking swing around and shit.
She got jealous and broke up. There are some fights about
that, but he really like, they're kind of like a power

(01:34:10):
couple, OK. Ronnie Moore, Jesus Christ, Rest
in peace. Rest.
In peace. Fictional character.
Sorry, Sarah's going through it,brother.
Don't. Don't invalidate her feelings.
You don't. Invalidate Yeah show.
Up for people, let me check you.Hey, they had at least five

(01:34:35):
seasons being with each other. OK, did he die in season 5?
No, no, like. I was made open number.
Season 19. But how many seasons were they
together though? You know, together.
They were. They had some on and off from
the beginning. He was.

(01:34:56):
He was married. Oh, so he was.
A hoe. Another doctor.
Of course he has a he. Has a.
Type. Why can't they?
Date like teachers or something.It's always either they or the
nurse. Every show they're they're
banging the nurse. It's like, is there no one else
available? Like isn't there like a cook

(01:35:16):
somewhere? I don't know.
They're barely, they barely leave the hospital, so there's
like nowhere else. Got it.
So that's all year round I get. I'm just saying the janitor's
there. Right, OK, the janitor's there.
So the janitors love people. Electrician loves it.
Yeah, a plumber, you see that crack in that ass that that
plumber's got it. He's a tick one they.

(01:35:36):
Make a good living. They do trades.
We respect the trades here. You heard Sarah, we respect.
The trades, absolutely. Trades. 11 doctor marries their
patient. Thanks.
That's kind of wild. I guess it's not as bad as like
a therapist marrying their patient, I guess.
Yeah, it's not as bad. It's.
Still not great, you know, it's still not great.

(01:35:57):
It's not as creepy. Up your wound.
Want to get together sometime? What was?
How bad was their patient? Was it like?
Were they dying? They were dying.
They got they got married originally so that he could have
her insurance, but then they fell in love.
That's not bad for me. Yeah.

(01:36:19):
One doctor marries a anesthesiologist.
I guess a Philadelphia, you know.
They do that just for the drugs.But yeah, turn that handle make
me eye. Where's the medical assistants
at? They're sweet people too.
Like I don't understand. So many doctors running around.

(01:36:41):
So privileged it's. Crazy because like the the
assistants in the show, they're like they've been in the show
for like so many years these 23 seasons, you know like they're
the same people you recognize them and they've had like 2
lines like in the whole are theybaddies are.
They. Baddies though.
They're amazing. They're amazing, yeah.

(01:37:02):
I know they're, but I mean, you know what baddie means.
You know they're good, Logan. You know they smoke show.
They all they have like their masks on and everything.
How? Can you tell?
You can just tell. You just tell.
About their eyes, it's. It's like an archology with it
with it. I'm not even going to say it.
I was going to say wear your eyebrows.

(01:37:22):
Looking good, girl. I just.
I see the bottom of your ankles and I know you're fine.
That's right. Yeah, I can say it.
I can say it. So you're.
Like hey, how you doing? What's up bro?
Like. Yeah, man, that's I love that we
got to have some jokes about some of this shit, but this is

(01:37:43):
wild. I I know a lot of my clients
love this show because of all the drama, all the T, right?
All the trauma in it, a lot of my clients do like to see that
trauma because it helps them getaway from the trauma of real
life because they get lost in the show.
Obviously it's got a massive fucking following.
It's been on for 30 years. And it wins so many awards,
like, all the time too. Yeah.

(01:38:05):
But yeah, no, it's like. 30 and they're like.
They talk about like important stuff on their like, I'm sure
yeah, they really have shown up.I'm.
Glad you brought it to us. I'm glad you did.
Never going to watch it. Yeah, Any you got?
Any other I'm. About to say, are you going to
watch it now? I'm too busy watching Kitchen

(01:38:28):
Nightmares. Gordon Ramsay.
That's right. I'm too busy watching fucking
Brooklyn. 9/9 for the 70 billionth time so.
Yeah, you just hooked that show.It's crazy.
Any who Sarah, we're at the end of the show.
Would you like to give out some of your plugs?
Where can people find you? Where can people look at your
website, your Instagram, all that stuff?

(01:38:49):
What? States do you operate in?
Are you taking clients in your practice?
So I'm full right now, but are afew of the therapists I was
talking about earlier have some openings and like actually are
running some cool groups right now.
So we're doing like a DBT skillsgroup for neurodivergent folks.

(01:39:13):
We do like a neurodivergent process group with like a book
club virtually just like spaces to like help build community.
So yeah, you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok, Needo,

(01:39:33):
IFT, so NIDOIFT and then like needo.com as well.
And then my own personal pages. Sarah Finch Therapy.
I know it's kind of basic but that's my Instagram handle.
I know my main's basic. Come on.

(01:39:54):
Be nicer to yourself, you bastard.
Jesus, what? Is it following a bastard?
What? Is the loving.
Yeah, I'm such a Dick. It's so hard for me to be nice
to people. It is.
Why don't you love yourself, youfucking idiot?
Yeah. I know, I wonder.
Why I? Told you I was treating you.
It's fine. I tried with my niece.
I'm like, you're such a pretty girl.

(01:40:14):
And she's like, please never. It's like you're so smart.
I just can't say it with a straight face, you know?
We all said that, like, as soon as anybody hears that, they're
like, yeah, yeah, perfect. Yeah, Idiot.
I. Try yeah, I try.
It creeped her out. I I enjoyed it.
That's. Good.
Anywho, yes, thank you, Sarah for coming on.

(01:40:36):
We really appreciate it. Yeah, yeah.
So with that, I'm Spencer. That's nice.
Different special pack. I already want everyone.
Jesus, much love, much appreciation.
And remember, take care of yourselves or don't, it's
completely up to you. Peace what?
Kind of body of water. Just kidding.

(01:40:56):
Please don't stay away. It's like take care of
yourselves or die. Thank you.
Or drown Sarah again. Needle dark humor.
Needle.com, right Needle, whatever.
I love the beginning of I, Robot.
We do not condone anything. We.
Do not learn. More about drowning at Needle.

(01:41:21):
Well, you don't need CPR ever. OK everyone, goodbye.

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What Grey’s Anatomy Gets Right About Depression and Suicidality | With Sarah Finch, LMFT

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}What Grey’s Anatomy Gets Right About Depression and Suicidality | With Sarah Finch, LMFT