Why So Many Autistic People Relate to Wednesday Addams 🖤 | ft. Zahraa Al-Jameel

In today’s episode, we’re joined by the amazing Zahraa Al-Jameel, a fellow autistic advocate, law student, and content creator who uses her voice to empower and educate others. Together, we dive into the Netflix series Wednesday and explore why so many neurodivergent people see themselves in Wednesday Addams.

We break down powerful scenes from the show, including:

🧩 Wednesday’s confrontation with the principal about the school’s dark history and what it means to be labeled an “outcast”

⚖️ The challenges of living in the gray areas of life as neurodivergent people

💬 The pain of being called “exhausting” or “too much” and how that impacts self-worth

🔥 Why many autistic and disabled folks reject being idolized or placed on pedestals

💜 The beauty of authenticity, self-acceptance, and learning to love yourself even when the world misunderstands you

Zahraa opens up about her experiences navigating relationships, embracing self-love, and continuing to advocate for others in her community. This episode is full of laughter, insight, and heartfelt reflection on what it means to be proudly different in a world that doesn’t always understand.

💭 Questions for You

Do you ever see yourself in Wednesday Addams?

Have you ever felt misunderstood for simply being yourself?

What does self-acceptance look like for you as a neurodivergent person?

Thanks for checking out Different Spectrums! 🎙️ We're a podcast led by licensed therapists and neurodivergent individuals who explore emotions in movies and shows. Our mission is to normalize mental health challenges and promote understanding.

Join your founders and hosts, Dr. Nazeer Zerka and Spencer Srnec, as we process some key scenes to help you better understand your emotions and maybe even find some validation in them.

To find our new guest: Zahraa Al-Jameel

⁨@theautizztichabibbaddie⁩

https://www.instagram.com/theautizztichabibbaddie/

https://portaly.cc/zahraaaljameel

Episode Breakdown:

0:00 Attention

0:59 Intro

3:27 Scenes

7:52 Discussion

We’d love to hear your ideas for future episodes and connect with you on social media. You can find all our links here: https://linktr.ee/different_spectrums

⚠️ Reminder: Our podcast isn’t a substitute for therapy. If you need help, please seek professional assistance or call 988 for the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline or 911 in case of an emergency.

Don’t forget to use our links for discounts with our partner companies:

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Attention Welcome to the Different Spectrums podcast.
We dive into the wild world of mental health discussions.
Get ready for profound talks, a sprinkle of humor and sarcasm,
and a touch of colorful language.
Just a quick heads up, our show reflects our individual
opinions, which may not align with the standpoint of the

(00:21):
podcast, our featured guests, orany related corporate entities.
Our mission? To illuminate through laughter
and satire because everyone needs a good chuckle.
Chill out and don't stress over the small stuff.
Legal troubles? No thank you.
Cancel culture, please spare us.We'd rather keep this space

(00:43):
lawsuit free, So buckle up, havea good time, and join us as we
navigate the vibrant realm of mental health on the Different
Spectrums podcast. Hey everybody, we're back again.
Hey. Hey, we're back.
We're live. I'm Spencer, your Co host.

(01:04):
Of course, we have our licensed clinical therapist, Nas.
Doctor Nas, how you doing? There you go.
Also remember, don't take us tooseriously.
Or do. Completely up to you.
There you go. Also, don't forget to rob those
likes for us. We'd really appreciate it.
So our next guest is an Air British Autistic advocate,
storyteller, and law student with a powerful voice for

(01:27):
intersectionality and representation.
She founded Thriving Neurodivergence and Don't Be an
Ass to call out aspy supremacy and uplift marginalized voices
within the autistic community. She also is the author of
Writing About about Nah, Timelessness, Butterfly.

(01:48):
Sorry. Well, please welcome Zara
Aljamir. Thank you.
My name is Zara. My name is Zara Aljamir.
I am a law student and autistic advocate and founder of the BNS.
Awesome. Thank you.
Thank you. There you go.
All right, so today we're going to be talking about the show

(02:10):
Wednesday. Wednesday.
We talked about this show before, but we're going to be
talking about it in season 2. Some things that we're going to
talk about standing up for injustice, not repeating the
past and just having truth and honesty.
Those great qualities. Nas anything before we get into
it? Yeah, we'll touch on those.

(02:32):
We'll touch on some other intersectional things too.
Some of the reasons why I wantedyou to have come on the path Odd
almost podcast. I don't know what that I was
about to say in some of the things that me and you, I'm sure
we've seen when it comes to folks representing themselves,
white folks, folks of color, howwe navigate that space because
it's a smaller space with us, but a large crowd, but it was a

(02:52):
smaller crowd and maybe some of us voices don't get heard as
much. So there's another reason why I
wanted to have you come on too. Of course, we did it on
Wednesday. I think we did some really
therapy scenes. I remember that in the first
season and now we can get into some of the second season.
Also some black and white thinking.
So we're getting there and touching that.
What you say, quality over quantity, That's what we're

(03:13):
going to talk about. All right, let's do it.
Woop, woop, woop, woop. You guys say it too.
Oh, excuse me. Woop.
Woop. Perfect.
Angry phone calls, emails and people in the town, alumni and
parents. They want answers, and so do I.
I would lead the inquisition, but I left my thumb, screws and

(03:35):
rack at home. Miss Adams, you're already on
thin ice. Wafer thin ice.
I swear on my late scorpion soulmy hands are clean.

(03:57):
I may not have hard evidence, but I see you.
You're a trouble, Magnus. If trouble means standing up to
lies, decades of discrimination,centuries of treating outcasts
like second class citizens or worse.
What are you talking about? Jericho Why does this town even
have an outreach day? Don't you know it's real history
with outcasts? The actual story of Joseph

(04:19):
Crackstone. I do to an extent.
Then why be complicit in its cover up?
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
That's where you and I differ. Where you see doom, I see
opportunity. Maybe there's a chance to

(04:39):
rewrite the wrongs to start her new chapter in the normie
outcast relation. Nothing has changed since Crack
Stone. They still hate us, only now
they sugarcoat it with platitudes and smiles.
If you're unwilling to fight forthe truth.
They don't think I want the truth.
Of course I do. But the world isn't always black
and white. There are Shades of Grey.

(05:00):
Maybe for you, but it's either they write our story or we do.
You can't have it both ways. You're exhausting.
I know. Goodnight, Miss Adams, but you

(05:22):
should know I don't tire easily.Tonight is our banquet of

(06:02):
discontent and we shall gladly feast on those who would subdue
us. Our fight is just beginning and
I'm ripping the Band-Aid off thescab of civility and will not
cease until our enemies have been vanquished.
And by enemies I mean any imbecile stupid enough to cheer

(06:25):
on some shallow, rabble rousing diatribe like that.
You thought I was your hero. I'm not.
I always play dirty and I never fight fair.
The only side I'm on is my own, and the only place I'll lead you
is off a Cliff. So do not put me on a pedestal
because I will burn it down. What the hell are you doing?

(07:04):
I never agreed to this. So you're going to torpedo up
for the rest of us? You're my best friend, but can
you be a little less Wednesday? This is supposed to be our best
year ever. Hey everyone, thanks for
watching our show today. We just wanted to take some time
to give a special shout out to our collaborator Cat and Raven

(07:25):
Design. They are a small queer owned
business that specializes in LGBTQ plus pride soaps.
They have great designs, some that even look good to eat but
don't. You can get 10% off your entire
order if you use the code DSP orgo to our link tree.
Help support this great small business and help give back to a

(07:48):
great community. Yeah, then we're back again.
Hey, hey. Went back, went live.
Not gonna lie, I thought I was going to pass out earlier today.
Part of my finger, like part of my finger damn near ripped off,
spent. So I was cleaning out stuff in
the nail. Like, damn near.
It was terrifying, but I'm alive.

(08:09):
I'm alive. I'm doing it.
All right, let's get into the show.
Awesome. All right, so as you can see, we
have a guest today. So Zara, you were diagnosed at
4, but it took eight years to fully understand your identity.
What was your journey like and how did it shape you for today?

(08:30):
In one word, shit. That's something I would not let
anyone else go through, especially when you're a kid
who's diagnosed in 2010 and you would and there's complete lack
of awareness on autism and very outdated.
Yeah, go ahead. What?
What was it like after right thediagnosis?

(08:51):
So my parents never informed me that I was autistic.
I actually had to find that out for myself.
Very interesting life path I guess.
But like like I relate to peoplewho grew up undiagnosed because

(09:12):
we share there is there are similarities between between us,
which is that I've been bullied,I've been excluded.
I simply did not know how socializing worked.
I had self help books, which didnot work.
I watched I watched movies and sort of like took in the

(09:36):
characters persona. Excuse me?
When you did the self help books, was it like self help,
like how to socialize books, howto make friends books?
I've had my clients do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I recently sold my books through Ziffit, although it's
not called Ziffit anymore. I just wanted to get rid of it.

(09:56):
And I remember look like kind ofskimming through that through
it. Some parts were just locally
outdated. Yeah.
Like they just would not work like in today's day and age.
So I was heavily bullied. I so bullied, excluded, ignored
I I struggled with self acceptance and people pleasing.

(10:24):
I did not build my own foundation.
I had I lacked confidence and self esteem.
I thought that you know being a good person means overextending
to everyone and being like nice to everyone and pour into
everyone's cups by your own. But right now I don't care.

(10:46):
I only pour into mine and otherswhen I can.
So I prioritize me and myself, which is something 9 year olds
are always so proud of. When did you realize or when did
it come to fruition that you were like autistic?
So if you did, parents didn't tell you?
Did someone else tell you? Did you just finally come to
realize it after Googling? What was the vibe?

(11:07):
So I remember I was sitting in the storage room and going
through some files and there wasthis envelope.
And I mean, I have it with me now.
There was this like an envelope and it talked about my induction
day at primary school and because I joined in quite late

(11:28):
in March of 2010. So I was basically the new kid
and, and it read that. And then as I was reading,
reading, reading it the line where it says she is autistic or
she has autism spectrum disorder, that's when it hit.

(11:52):
And even though I knew, even though I didn't know what it was
at that time, I knew it was the final.
It was the key to open the door.Nice.
How long did it take you to start doing some of that other
stuff, to rewrite your behaviours the way you felt
about yourself and pouring into your own cup?

(12:14):
So when I was younger and go andeven to the point of last year,
I heavily struggled with people pleasing.
I struggled to say no, I did notwant to to disappoint people.
I wanted everyone to like me. But it's just not worth it.

(12:36):
It's never worth it. And it got to a point where I
was like, you know what? I've I've had enough.
I've had enough. I want to focus on me.
What do I want? What are my boundaries?
So as I was saying, I just had enough.
What do I want? What makes me happy?

(12:57):
What are my boundaries? I do not.
I don't care that people don't like me.
I don't even like everyone. True, That's it.
There you go. So for you, for say, writing
stuff like that, writing is an important thing for you, how'd

(13:19):
that get started? How'd your writing get started?
And how's that really? Has that helped your
storytelling through the years? Well right now I classify myself
as an ex author so writing throughout high school helped me
gain confidence in English because this was a subject I

(13:41):
mostly struggled on and I came out with two nines which in
America I assume the highest grade is like a plus or
something. So I came out with that.
For my GCS ES I did English A level 2 which is a 2 year course
where you study 3 subjects in deep intense environment.

(14:07):
As I like to say it. Honestly it wasn't.
It was, it was very difficult compared to GCS, ES most.
I think the main factor was thatwe were the first U group to do
our GCSE exams after COVID. Like when I say after COVID, I

(14:28):
mean after lockdown because COVID still exists.
So. So you were talking about these
things you're talking about are classes or exams for English.
Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah, that's what I'm on about. But writing in general, I, I
somehow dreamed I wanted to be an author.
I was mostly inspired by John Green, The Fault in Our Stars.
It was, it still is my favorite book and one of my favorite

(14:53):
movies as well. Excuse me.
So I wanted to write something on my own.
And I, I love writing romance and it must have a tragedy at
the end. I hate, I hate happy endings.
Oh. My God, what does tragedy mean?
Like they die or they just don'tmake it.
You you know what does tragedy mean?

(15:15):
I'll let you interpret that. OK, they're dead.
They're 100% dead. Do so you don't still write now.
No, I don't write anymore after after once I started A levels, I
was going to write what would what would, what would have been
my 6th book, but I completely lost motivation.

(15:40):
And you know what, sometimes youneed to give up on your old
dreams so you can make new for, so you can make room for new
dreams. And yeah, that give you a whole
lot of a lot of purpose. And here I am doing content
creating and advocating online. Did you use any of your writings

(16:01):
or process thoughts, feelings and emotions of the things they
were going through in life? Yes, I often, with each
character, they often represent my life or me and me as a whole.
So I'm not talking about me as awhole person.
I'm also talking about the things I've seen, things I've

(16:22):
experienced, things people told me, things I've witnessed,
things I've read, the media thatI consumed, etcetera.
Everything that was in my stories, all five of them
contained everything about me. They all, they all had a part of
me, especially for my 5th book by the two protagonists, right

(16:44):
and T both of them represent me.One of them, I gave them my
social extrovert side. I enjoy meeting new people.
And then meanwhile I gave the other one like a deep, deep
desire for deep connections and extremely introverted.
And I think it's the best thing that I've ever done.

(17:05):
So if you're going to finish something, finish it with a
bang. And that's clearly what I did.
It's a tragedy of, like you said, there's is a tragedy in
that one. They die too in that one with.
Yeah. It's bittersweet, OK.
All right, you burned it down. I I was nice.
OK, could have been worse. So what made you want to become

(17:30):
a lawyer? Go to school for being a lawyer.
Classic answer. My parents, My parents told me
to go into law, but I want to say this is my main motivation
as it as it was before. Like right now I, I don't know,

(17:54):
I feel like law, law just connects, connects us.
It it's served well, it's supposed to be served to protect
us. But the problem is they're not
enforced. And I'm currently reading
international human rights wherethe European Convention on human
rights, they designed this wholeconvention surrounding human

(18:18):
rights and had each cut each nation from Europe sign in onto
onto forming those fundamental human rights and, you know,
placing applying them across every individual within their
nation. And it's not to be breached, but

(18:40):
seeing as what's going on today,especially in Ukraine and
Russia, as well as if we get more international Palestine and
and Israel, Congo, Sudan, Tigray, Iran, right now it's
Yemen, Haiti, America, all the countries around the world, they

(19:03):
are, there are genocides that are occurring and most of them
are completely, completely silent, especially especially
those that especially very racialized countries like Congo
and Sudan and many more that aren't white or are politically

(19:23):
superior in a way. So.
I agree. So there's that.
I like, I like to challenge concepts.
I like to challenge opinions. I don't, I don't like staying
quiet. If something is wrong, I'm going
to say it. I'm going to call, I'm going to
call you out on it. And I, I enjoy reading.

(19:44):
I really enjoy reading. And I well, I do.
I enjoy debating. I enjoy arguing.
Should be good. You should be a good lawyer
then. Good lawyer is an
understatement, isn't it? I'll be the best lawyer.
Oh my dog is shit. I got you question though.

(20:05):
So this, this, this, this advocacy that you've been doing,
and I've been seeing you amongsta few others as well, calling
people out, holding people accountable, calling people in.
Is this also part of the justicethat you want to see as well In
law is making sure that these rules, these things are like
filed and holding people accountable.
Absolutely. Like you see Israel bombing,

(20:30):
killing, raping all of the atrocities that Israel is doing
and yet they stay quiet about it, even though this is clearly
breaching international human rights law.
And let's let's let's go way back.
The reason why this was started,this whole international human

(20:54):
rights and European Convention of human rights was all because
of the atrocities that happened in the Second World War where
nations came together and said, you know what?
We saw what we saw. This was the second time we've
had enough. It's time to place in those
human rights so this shit wouldn't won't happen again.
And even though they've been, when applied, they have not been

(21:16):
enforced. There's the difference.
And that's what I'm mad about. We are seeing history repeat
itself as when, as they said, ifyou do not learn from your
history, you are doomed to repeat it.
And we clearly haven't learned from it.
And I'm angry. I'm pissed.

(21:39):
Rex, I thought the same as well when I saw that in the scene.
Thank you for that. I appreciate it.
Of course. Project horn here.
So you're what would you say is something that you that you wish

(22:02):
you would have taught yourself when you were younger that you
that you would know now? What was something that you wish
you could speak to like your younger self and say, hey, I
wish I would have known this as a good one when I was younger?
So what age are we talking about?
Any age you want to start with, any age that you feel like was

(22:25):
somewhat, maybe you were just innocent, and then all of a
sudden you're like, let's start maybe like five years old.
Yeah. Elementary school.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, on a general note, I do
not believe about oh, I wish I should have done this and
whatnot, because if I went back at five years old, having the

(22:49):
knowledge I have now, what wouldI have developed?
What would I have grown into? Would I have even grown anyway?
Well, life is that it's so boring.
But what I do know is that five years old, I knew that I wanted
to be a Disney Princess from a very.
I'm sorry for laughing, I didn'tsee that one coming.

(23:13):
So, so, so she'll probably ask me, Zara, are we a Princess now?
And I'm like, no, but we rose upto become a queen.
That's what I tell her. I like that one.
And I'm so glad 5 year old self grew up with Barbie and I, and I

(23:35):
mean 2000s Barbie, because I look back at it and I'm like,
wow, I was raised with pure feminism right then and there.
Especially the movie. I was eight.
I was 8 years old when I watchedit.
It was Barbie and the Musketeersand the Musketeers and The Three

(23:55):
Musketeers. That movie made me want to be a
Musketeer myself. I'm like I felt badass after
hearing certain songs. I'm like wow I want to do that
so boom. All versions of me will be proud
of where I am today, and my future self will be 10 times

(24:16):
proud of me as well. Barbie and the muskets ears.
Holy shit this is a film 2009. Look at that.
So that's the younger version ofyou.
What about the high school version of you going into
college? Any words of wisdom that you
would give them or any other young women that are going into

(24:39):
college that are noted virgin autistic?
So when we so when you guys say college, do you mean like, oh.
Uni Yeah. OK what would I tell myself?
Going to uni you are not going to you forget about high school.

(25:04):
Like don't bother seeing your teachers again.
Like I hate to break it to you but your teachers are just there
for a season. They're only there to teach you
for a certain period of time. Especially with my English
teacher. I was so close with my English
teacher, but then I found out heblocked me on Instagram as well

(25:25):
as my friend and my other best friend.
And I was like, I don't want to know why.
Like you've done your, you've done your part.
I've done my part, Bye, bye. So it's not that deep.
I don't really care about it. But most importantly, I would
tell myself to never, ever put anything above your health,

(25:50):
above your dignity, nothing. Because throughout sixth form,
that's when I've changed. And I wasn't doing pretty, I
wasn't doing very well in sixth form.
Like I barely survived. It was so it was ridiculously
intense, let alone for an autistic person.

(26:14):
And it was incredibly strict as well.
And and I felt suffocated throughout my A levels but I
don't regret choosing the subjects I wanted to study for A
levels, especially politics because I actually failed
politics A level. And like like in the US you guys

(26:37):
have an F which means for fail whereas UK our F is AU.
So I translated that as you are the best, which clearly I am.
I'm clearly like you see my highlights.
I'm very political. I'm.
Narcissistic personality disorder?
Check. Oh, sorry.

(26:59):
Yeah, I don't, I don't think, I don't believe in MPD and there
are. And just because somebody hasn't
has MPD doesn't equal them beingevil.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So question for you.
You said it was intense. Does that mean mentally intense,
physically intense? Because you said it was your
health, Does that mean that health was deteriorating because

(27:20):
of the stress? I was, I was burnt out.
Yes, I, I remember after winter mock exams, I was so burnt out.
And it was and it was, it was the longest burnout I've I've
ever had to go through. It was so.
It was so intense and so bad. What is it?
Could you give us maybe for someof the folks that are listening,

(27:40):
Brown means a lot of different things for a lot of folks could
give us some symptoms or symptomallergies if you're OK sharing
that. Just.
Remember being tired. I just felt drained.
I my head the way sometimes whatwe do is that it feels like

(28:03):
there was a giant, like big, bigblock of something that's like
you feel your brain is filling up, but the problem is there's
nothing there. I but one of the biggest traits
was I would often do my homeworkthe last minute and, and it was
ridiculous because they set homework at let's say Wednesday

(28:26):
and then they're like, OK. And the way they set the
homework was 10 times worse. One homework would equal 3
parts, three parts. One of them would be like pre
reading. The second one will be to do a
whole whole essay. And the third one would just be
like proof of revision. And and if you don't do one of

(28:48):
those parts detention like or ifyou didn't do it up to the
standard detention. So it's like, are you kidding
me? I have all the homeworks that
are due tomorrow. I end up doing Wednesday's
homework on Thursday so. OK, Yeah, it's.

(29:10):
Just that it was a system thing.Disturbing.
Yeah. What else you got spent?
So for some of the people that may not be familiar, what does
ASPB supremacy mean? Valid.
So I explained that literally everywhere as much as possible,

(29:31):
even on my YouTube page. So aspy supremacy is a type of
ableism where autistic people discriminate other autistic
people. They perceive themselves as
better than sun autistic people,particularly those who are
marginalized or have high support needs, and in most cases
that they project superiority over neurotypicals or elistics.

(29:56):
Do you see that a lot in the, inthe in your spaces, personal
spaces or do you see a lot online?
Where? Where do you see that happen a
lot? Most in my personal experience
has been online. OK.
And then do you like say things about that?
Do you call people in, call people out about that like, hey,
This is why all this shit? Yes, I do call people out.

(30:18):
Hence I created my own series Derby and Ass, because it was
designed to call out the concepts.
And so so originally what I was going to do is that I was going
to call out people. But then after I called out
Chloe Hayden and done the post and everything, blah blah blah.

(30:38):
Got to a point where I made a post, had a reel, made a reel
saying how she blocked me because she did after holding
her, after attempting to hold her accountable for her actions
and her irresponsibility. I stepped back and I'm like even
though what I did was correct, the facts are correct.

(31:00):
It's not done to it's not done out of malice.
This could endanger someone's life.
I could get one thing wrong and they'll be quick to to UN alive
themselves. And I'm like I don't want this
to be a page of criticizing people.
So the way I channeled it now isthat I don't, I don't call

(31:22):
people out anymore. It's a completely exhausting.
I, I protect my entity. I prioritize it now.
So the way So what I would do isthat through my through, through
my advocacy, not just in don't be an ass, but in my stories and
whatnot. And when I say stories, I mean
Instagram stories is that I just, you just call out the

(31:46):
concepts. So for example, what's an
episode I could talk about strong sense of justice.
Let's talk about that. So when people, when a lot of a
lot of autistic people perceive themselves as superior because
they have this strong sense of justice where it doesn't exist,

(32:07):
it's not a trait. And in a way, it's projecting.
It's portraying autistic people as as if they are morally
superior, they can do no wrong, which is a very, very dangerous
generalization because it leads to autistic people lacking
accountability and not being notbeing held to the standards of

(32:32):
everyone else when they've done something wrong.
So as I, as I said, hated an example.
Page layout is another example. Elon Musk with his Nazi salutes,
Trump's integration and everything in between.
Seer Temple Grandin. Why do you think?
Why do you think? People have like that aspy

(32:53):
supremacy like vibe. Why do you why do you a lot of
people will be like, we're the next human in evolution, in
humanity. You see that shit a lot on the
Internet. So, so the question, yeah, So
what, what you know, you see allthese things.
Why, Why? Why?
Why do you people think that we're, this is like cool to say
we're the next step in evolution, that we're better
than people because we're more feeling things or we're smarter

(33:16):
or more logical. I see a lot of people say we're
more logical. What do you think that is that
pushes people to say those generalizations?
So I use, I am an ex aspy supremacist.
So but the main reason why I wasdoing I, I feel like looking

(33:37):
through all of this, you have tolook through the constant themes
that they produce that they constantly talk about.
And one of those themes is beingbetter than neotypicals.
They're like, oh, that, this, that what not.
And it's often derived from trauma is derived in being
constantly bullied, excluded, left out, all of that.

(33:59):
So it's sort of like a movie thing where you have been
pressured into being absolutely left out, like an like an
outcast and humiliated because of your existence.
You start to sort of channel it and start entering your villain
era. But it's not healthy.

(34:21):
This is not the healthy way to go about your trauma because
what difference does it make if you say that oh I'm both to the
new typicals then what? Then what?
You see it a lot, people say it a lot.
I mean, I fell victim for that as well.
And another reason is because because since I was new to this

(34:43):
whole like autism community and that kind of thing, and you are
more susceptible to impressions and influence, I'm like, oh, OK,
so many people are doing that, so I'm going to copy them
because that's what's popular. But let me tell you something,
just because something is popular does not mean it's
right. It's safe and guarantees you any
goodness. That's what I learned.

(35:05):
Sometimes the unpopular way is the healthy way.
I will agree with that. Appreciate it.
Thank you. What would you say is something
that you like to do outside of advocacy law school?
Is there anything out like what else are you you passionate
about? Michael Jackson.
Here we go, Michael. Jackson they wanted to do the

(35:28):
pot on Michael Jackson. I was like, I can't, there's no
way we can pull any clips on this.
This shit's all going to get blocked.
And then like someone told me, maybe we can do like this movie
or this or that or And I was like, brother, I don't know how
we're going to do this. Why Michael Jackson did it?
Just the moves. No, it's it's more about his
impact on the world. You always been a fan of Michael

(35:53):
MJ, is it? Or is this like a recent thing?
It's pretty recent two years, two years now.
You ever write about him in yourin your writings or no?
I did write a little analogy on like what it's like being
autistic through Michael Jackson's songs, but that was

(36:14):
when I was 17. OK, Spence, who would you?
Sorry, Spence, who would you sayMichael Jackson's like
equivalent to now? Like nowadays Nobody.
He would be higher or lower. What do you mean higher or
lower? Like in status, is he like
Taylor Swift? Fucking status, Beyoncé say.
I say well past that status. He's always going to be higher.

(36:37):
He's still talking. About him, Yeah, that's what I.
Figured, and they still talk about them.
There you go. One thing you should learn Never
ever question Michael Jackson's status.
OK, Yep, stepped right into thatshit.
OK, well. Never equate Michael Jackson's
status to anyone. OK, it's true.

(37:00):
What's your favorite? Do you Do you like the music
too? I love the music do.
You have a favorite song? Yeah, they're all good.
That's too good. That's what I thought.
You just stumble upon it, or didyour family put you on it?
What was it? Oh, I stumbled upon it myself.
I was listening too bad repeatedly, and I'm like, you

(37:22):
know what? This is actually so cool.
Let's see what other Michael Jackson songs there is.
And the biggest regret ever was searching up thinking it was
going to be. It was not going to be as good
as I thought. So the second second I played

(37:45):
Billie Jean. Boom, here I am now.
Love it, love it, love it. I remember watching the music
videos when I was a kid. Spence play in the the werewolf
and all that shit. Man, I was actually scared.
It was on like all day too. All day, every day.
Hello. Yeah, yeah.
I was like, bro, does this shit happen?

(38:08):
What do you expect that's. Michael But they're dancing, so
they they're having fun. But people, people dying people.
I'm just thinking about Detroit now because when he was a kid,
it was on Detroit back in the day.
All that Motown record stuff. Well, he was actually from Gary,
IN, but. Oh, there you go.
I'll talk about when he was singing with the everybody.

(38:30):
Else oh boy. All right, so let's we can let's
get into the movie. Let's get into the movie or the
show. Let's get into the show.
What about Wednesday speaks to you to make you want to talk
about it? What what about her personality,

(38:50):
her her stoicism? Like what?
What is it that you like about her?
Well, first and foremost, I really love her aesthetic,
stitching my aesthetic as well. I love gothic about the same
time. It's very like formal and
corporate in a way. So I'm like, I just love her

(39:11):
fashion style, but that's not the main thing.
The main thing about is that she's her own person.
She does not give a shit about what other people think.
She speaks her mind, stands up for the truth.
That's it. So do you like, is this like
your favorite version of Wednesday?
You know, because they have the Christina Ricci one and then

(39:31):
they also had like the TV show and like some cartoons and stuff
like that. Is this your favorite version
with Jenna Ortega? That's the only version that I
saw, which is Jenna Ortega's version.
At that time, I was not really into the Addams Family or I
barely acknowledged the existence of the Addams Family
until, you know, Jenna Ortega's performance was incredibly

(39:57):
public. Yeah, Spence, is it?
I'm I'm fuzzy on and all becauseit's too old.
Are they vastly different, the ways in which they're presented
or? No, No, I mean like.
Wednesday's still a very straightforward, straight
shooter and bullies her brother and they they just fight all the

(40:17):
time. Yeah.
I mean, it's pretty similar. They do a pretty good job of
making just the characters pretty close together.
I mean, they go a little bit more in depth since it's a show.
Yep. Yep.
So. Yeah, which is the one I'm
mixing this up, but right now is, is that the monsters, Whose

(40:37):
cousin it? Whose cousin is?
Is that the monsters or the Adams family Cousin it?
Ads Adams family. That is Adams family.
OK, there you go. When it comes to this version
though, Wednesday, do you do youhave any friends?
I always wondered this because the thing online right is like
you got 2 versions of autism right?

(40:58):
Or the the the diaspora is too vastly different.
You got her roommate right? And then you got her.
Do you have any enids in your inyour life or no?
That's a good question. I feel like I definitely got a

(41:18):
little. I mean I would say 2 of my
closest friends are similar to Enid, but the difference,
they're very introvert. OK, they're very introverted so.
So they're an introverted version of Enid.
There you go. She's very, very extroverted.
Spoiler alert, I got to ask you this.

(41:39):
Are you cool with the way she treated Enid, treated that boy
and like kind of like dumped himand talking to the other boy.
She avoided it so bad. I'm like, girl, this is fucked
up. This is This is not right.
Wait, remind me please. You know she's dating that wolf
guy, the other wolf guy, right? And then she dumped the scorpion
haired guy. I'm like, this is so sad.
That poor boy. Well, the hide, Tyler.

(42:01):
Not the hide. There, right there.
Sorry, yes. I'm so sorry, I was thinking, I
thought you were talking about Wednesday for a minute.
No, I'm thinking of her though, but yeah.
Actually, I don't. Care.
Oh my God. Don't care.
I felt so bad for him. She just shits all.
I'm like, girl, just tell him that you don't like him.

(42:22):
She's like, I can't do it. I'm like, you're killing her.
Communication. Communication is key is key.
So have you met any other characters other than Wednesday?
Because I, I know I'm going to pivot real quick before we get
into the show. You brought up a multiple
characters that you wanted to bring up or bring to the show,
but do you feel the most congruent with Wednesday or

(42:45):
there's a few other characters you're like, I like this too.
The thing about me is that generally I just tend to forget
the characters and like the movies and everything and just
rather on myself. So they sort of like come and go
in a way. But yeah, the one that I told
you about was Red. And it's mostly because I just,

(43:06):
I just, I'm fed up with people. I'm fed up.
With those from Angry Birds, right?
Yeah, from Angry Birds. I thought it was funny but.
Franchise is not going to lie. Oh, and.
What's her name? Amber.
I definitely I, if I had to put these three, I would say

(43:28):
Wednesday one. Sorry, Amber 2nd and read the
least. I relate to Amber because like
she's very hyper independent anddoesn't want to fall in love and
and that kind of that kind of thing.
And also like me, no patience. This was from Elemental or no?

(43:51):
What was it about? So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. We did that a while ago, too.
That was that was a good movie. I enjoyed it.
Let's start back into the scene.But you got any questions about
the scene, Spence? So what?
What was the main reason going to pick the scene of all the
scenes and Wednesday especially season 1?

(44:16):
I just picked the things that I relate to the the most and
mostly because of the maximum amount of clips that I could
put. So if I was to go find
something, I have to find something that is 80 to 100% me.
In in this this scene here though, well, why was just the
80 to 100%? What are the few things that you

(44:37):
want to touch on in this scene? So which scene are we talking
about? Firstly, this is the first one
that we talked about. Oh, the first scene, the
confrontation between the principal and OK, so the reason
why is because I had a couple ofpeople say to me, Zara, you got

(44:59):
to have like a balance in life. It's not everything black and
white and whatnot. But I do view the world as black
and white. But I am starting to see like a
few, I wouldn't say a few Teeny weeny.
She's Shades of Grey, or as I personally like to say, there
are shades of white as there areshades of black, so.
I like that. Yeah, I will actually steal

(45:21):
that. Maybe we don't.
Maybe we can't find the grey, but we sure can find a different
fucking shade of white or black.I like that.
OK. Yeah.
So there's that. But then when I watch the scene,
as I mentioned, it's about when she she's not afraid to question

(45:42):
authority, she's not afraid to question about the truth.
And she doesn't want history to repeat itself.
And what me and her both share is that we don't want to be
complicit in any some sort of violence or systematic
oppression. So for me, it's gone to a point
where I stopped, I tried to stopsaying certain words that may

(46:08):
have may that are normalized, but have been historically
rooted in systematic oppression.So common words include stupid,
dumb, idiot, etcetera. Where I tell this to so many
people. I'm like, you shouldn't say that
because this was stemmed in ableism and was used to
dehumanize those who are intellectually disabled.

(46:31):
And 9 of 10 times they're like, oh, OK, I'm so sorry, I didn't
know that. But then that one out of 10
time, it's, it's pretty annoyingwhere they come up with
justification like, well, I'm disabled, so I can say to oh, I
can reclaim it, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, wow, if you're, ifyou don't, unless you got
intellectual disability, you have no say on whether you can

(46:53):
reclaim it or not. So that's that.
And then another one is the B word BITCH.
And this is something that I'm seeing so much and it's just
that like, and I and I used it so many times as in terms of
empowerment and whatever, but historically it literally means

(47:15):
female dog. Like I, I am not an animal.
I will not be treated like an animal.
So I will, I will, I refuse to use that word.
And instead of saying I'm a baddie, yeah, use that.
It's it's expected. It's unfortunately expected when
it's in men. But with women, I'm
disappointed. So when it comes to honesty,

(47:38):
this is what you were talking about in the scene, is she does
her best to be most honest. Wednesday she usually shoots
right for she doesn't care really what's going on.
And it's not intentional. Not trying to hurt anyone.
They're just doing and saying what they think and feel is the
right thing. Yes, yeah, yes, because we

(47:59):
touched on the history and not right not repeating that when
you have you ever been in a situation with a elder though,
like her or like a principal andlike tried to correct them on
something? Is it always with your peers?
That's what I was wondering while watching the clip.
I'm having a Deja vu right now. I feel like I did have.

(48:20):
Because a lot of times we're talking to our peers, yeah,
colleagues about stuff like this.
Sometimes he gets into superiors, bosses, professors,
teachers. But a good majority of the time
we don't really say a lot back to them because in fear that
they could control something or or harm us retaliation.
I I've heard some teachers say questionable things, but either

(48:45):
I would not interfere or I would, but it's done in a very,
very shy manner because I do notwant to get into trouble.
That I was a whole goody 2 shoeswhen the thing about me was that
I was never a good student. I was a complicit student.
Complicity does not mean you're good.

(49:07):
And the thing about me was that I witnessed so much systematic
oppression and so many things that were wrong, performative
activism, but I couldn't speak or speak on it because like, Oh
my God, if I speak on them, theywill give me detention, they
will shout at me, they will, youknow, belittle me, et cetera.
So is that really a thing as a good student?

(49:31):
Because for me, I feel like I was complicit and now I'm not
complicit anymore. I'm good now.
That's good enough for me. But going back to your question,
I do personally feel like there's been a few times where
I'm trying to think right now. I want to give like a very good

(49:53):
example. Because most of my dialogues are
with peers every once in a while.
What's with older folks? Sometimes it's pushing back on
professors or supervisors, bosses.
There's a lot of stuff happeningnow in America that's like
pretty wild where we cannot say or do certain things or

(50:16):
publicize certain things becausethe schools, universities are
afraid of the funding being taken.
And so there's been a lot of conversations and arguments
happening in the meetings, whichI was a part of no longer as of
last Thursday. So it's just been interesting,
right? Fighting back.
I mean, like, what are we doing?Who are we protecting?
I got I got one example go. Ahead, my maths teacher.

(50:39):
Oh my goodness. She had a seating plan where she
would put the smartest people atthe back and unfortunately the
least able to do maths at the front.
She calls it the front row shame.
And by her perspective it's moreabout challenging and competing

(50:59):
and wherever. But all they did for me was just
give me anxiety. In fact, not just me, but many
other students too. And it was ableist as well.
And she's done this for whether a decade or two and nobody said
anything. And when I do talk about that,
they would repeat the same thing.

(51:20):
That's like like they would often be on a teacher side,
which I understand it's you wantto be professional, but you
know, I'd rather have you say like, yo, this teacher is not
doing great and tell me the truth rather than protecting
your own image based on systematic oppression and
violence. Like do you care about your?

(51:42):
Like does your image matter morethan your students?
Yeah, that can cause a lot of anxiety for a lot of people.
A lot of other things too. A lot of shame, a lot of guilt,
a lot of. Fear another one.
I got the second one and this ismy absolute favorite.
OK. And then we'll pivot to the next
scene of. Course of course when I was in
year 10 I realized there's hardly anything like there was

(52:06):
hardly any education on autism being taught to these students.
So I went to my head of year I'mlike, yo, there's not been any
anything about autism in our pastoral which for for
Americans. It's this like little 30 minute
class session where you just talk about like life outside of
school, like, you know, career, drugs, health, etcetera.

(52:31):
So I'm like, well, autism is notthere, disability acceptance is
not there. This, this needs to be done.
And a year later, I I in fact, Ipressured her to do A to give
her the the PowerPoint slide andput all.
In the. Curriculum everything autism

(52:52):
yeah, so it can be put into pastoral or form time and just
like and it was in April as well, which was good because
it's autism month there finally it did happen so there.
You go. Yeah, it did.
There you go. OK, perfect.
Myself. Yeah, same.

(53:15):
Let's continue. With the next.
Let's do into the second scene what we got here.
Yeah. So this is with the new
Superintendent Dort. He went and he wanted to have
this celebration of just the celebration to celebrate all the
the beginning of the year. And we have him showing off

(53:39):
this, this photo or this painting of Wednesday and the
whole crew doing a pose and saving the school, right.
You said you did not like if youwould have done, you would have
done the same thing if you were Wednesday, if you would have
been shown this picture, what what about that picture would

(54:01):
have would have pissed you off? If I had a painting that that
did not express anything that I stood up for, then I I have
every right to be angry. And in Wednesday's case, the the
reason why I was so angry is because you would not see
Wednesday smile and holding up like the song going, yeah, we

(54:25):
did it. No, she would not care.
Do you know what I mean? So I was just as mad as she was
like the second I saw that and draped down like, Nope, Nope,
Nope, Nope. It's it's unacceptable.
Please burn it. She's also too smart to know.
What are you doing? Yeah, with that homeboy, just
trying to use her image to get more students, money, finances.

(54:48):
Right. And she she she knows homeboy's
a grifter. I I I'm super surprised.
I can't wait to see how bad of aduty is, because I know he's
bad. I just don't know how bad.
Yeah, he's terrible. When you, when you see her burn
the thing down, I assume that you were like, giddy.
I assume that you were Were you happy?
Were you laughing? What was the vibe?

(55:12):
I was like, yeah, jeez. As it should.
It's like an it was your, you know, it's like disappointed but
not surprised, but it's like happy but not surprised.
Yeah, yeah, there you go. I guess this leans into good as

(55:32):
like how I became upon your material, right is you starts
expressing and a lot of stuff went viral with that other
actress from the Spence. We did a we did a a podcast on
the TV show. What was that TV show that she's
in that's super famous? Heartbreak High.
Heartbreak high. There it is.

(55:53):
And so that's why I met you and you're like, hey, I was like,
hey, you want to talk about someof this on the pod?
I'm going to give you like a little, little microphone to
talk it to. You're like, I'm done talking
about this shit. And you told us kind of why,
right? Because you don't also want to
lead your advocacy and calling people out.
Maybe, you know, people get offended, maybe they take their
own lives. I get that.
So I feel like a lot of people, people might have put you on a

(56:15):
pedestal at that moment because what you were doing and maybe
thinking that you were some hero.
I think maybe, you know, as a autistic person, you know, in
law school, blah, blah, blah. I think maybe a lot of people
will look at us and like as inspiration porn, they call it.
And so I'm sure that feels grossas well too.
So this hero vibe, I know you said you know one's hero, but

(56:36):
I'm sure people think that you're a hero or like you're
this awesome thing. How's it feel?
How you combat that? How?
How was it when that post went kind of viral?
Well, it depends on why you see me as a hero.
If you see me as a hero simply just because I called out Chloe
Haden, then no, you don't know me.
You don't know why I do. You only saw like 2 to a 1% of

(57:00):
why I do rather than the whole 99%.
I don't see myself as a hero andyou shouldn't too.
I am doing what everyone else should have been doing and it's
to speak up about injustices andit's to educate and be willing
to learn about the world as it is right now and how we can

(57:22):
combat systematic oppression andthe hierarchy that is, that has
been import imported by by systematic oppression and
violence and not allow history to repeat itself.
So I'm not going to sit there and judge you like, oh, don't
call me hero or whatnot. Like I'm not going to like shame

(57:42):
you for that. Go ahead.
I can't control your thoughts. So if you want to see me as a
hero, see me as a hero, go ahead.
Are you OK with people looking up to you, maybe as a brown
woman, autism in uni, right? Trying to trying to do their
thing right? Or would you be OK with people
being like, oh man, that's pretty cool, I want to do that.

(58:03):
Would you be OK with being inspiring to other brown girls?
I'm not brown, firstly, I'm Arab.
It's a good distinction. Yeah, Brown is from what I know
is more more like in Southeast Asia.
So like many in India, Sri Lanka, that kind of thing

(58:23):
whereas Arab is like. Arabs considered in the white
race in America. I put the distinction as my
skin's brown, thus I I go by brown.
But that's completely fine. I got you.
So how would it feel like you were other Arab women?
Would you? Are you cool with them looking
up to you? I don't care like I do, you

(58:44):
know, I just do what I do. I just want the truth to come
out. If you like it, you like it, and
if you accept it, you accept it.If you don't accept it, go
ahead. So I like more of a chill vibe
where it's like, oh wow, it's really good to, you know, see
you and see what you do. Because what often happens is
there's a huge risk that I've seen it with so many people and

(59:06):
it's that when they put you on such a ridiculous pedestal and
you haven't done self work on yourself, even if you have done
it, you still wouldn't want it. I certainly don't want it.
So when people just come to you with constant praising and this
unrealistic like. View.

(59:27):
Yeah, this very unrealistic view.
It's like there's a lot of pressure.
I don't want that pressure #2 like I'm going to be absolutely
egotistical and I don't want that.
And thirdly, I'm going to end updoing more harm than good.
So at the end of the day, I am going to disappoint you.
I'm going to piss you off. But as long as, as long as the

(59:48):
truth comes out and I'm willing to hold myself accountable and
actually learn, I don't care howyou see me, I don't care.
OK, bye bye. 8 billion people inthe world and you got to focus
on me and try to tarnish my image.
Very sad. Last question I had do you see
Wednesday as a hero? No.

(01:00:11):
Why not? Again, I, as I said, like.
Doing what she should be doing. Exactly.
I knew it. Yeah.
Like, I think at this point, like this is something that I've
been, that I discussed on my oneof my lives, and it's that in
this advocacy space, what we aredoing is the bare minimum.

(01:00:34):
Like that is the standard to actually stand up against those
who belittle us, who discriminate us, who, you know,
just not doing any good thing, right?
So many people are so scared. And I'm not talking about those
who are not speaking up for their own safety.

(01:00:55):
Those are exempt. I'm talking about those who are
privileged and safe enough to actually have the choice to
stand up and use their platform,use their voice, even if it's so
small that it doesn't matter, you know, use your privilege to
to stand up for others. They often cower themselves

(01:01:16):
because it's like, I don't want to make this person mad.
I want to be liked. I want to be this.
I want to be that. So then my question is, would
you rather be liked by everyone for simply telling a lie?
Or would you rather be hated by most people, but still but
deeply appreciated for the truththat you've done.

(01:01:36):
And this is something that one thing herself did, does.
And this is something that I do throughout my life, people
disliked me. A lot of people disliked me.
Primary school, high school, even in uni right now, people
don't like me. I don't care.
Not my problem. I'm not that satisfy you.
Go ahead, dislike me all you want.
I ain't going to change for you.I mean, if I'm willing to

(01:01:57):
change, I'm only doing it for me.
So yeah. So yeah.
I don't see one as there as a hero.
I do not. And then that leads us into our
last scene. Yeah, I want to talk about
quality over quantity. How does this relate to you as a

(01:02:20):
person? It mostly applies to me in terms
of friendships. Despise.
I'm sorry. I despise having a massive
circle of people coming from experience and from what I've
seen, bigger circles equal toxicity.

(01:02:41):
That's, that's how it is. Like the second I see a huge
circle, boom, I know there's drama, there's toxicity, there's
tons of red flags. Everyone's going to get split
up. Whereas for me, I, I, I like, I
want, I want loyalty. I I want loyalty as as the main

(01:03:07):
key. And by loyalty I mean you
standing there with me through thick and thin while supporting
me. You call me out on my BS.
You call me out on my bullshit. Like being deeply honest with
me, even if it hurts me. Like honestly, I don't care if
you hurt me. I really don't care.
And most importantly, and this is something that unfortunately,

(01:03:32):
not many people think it's that deep, but it really is.
Stand up for your friends. Are you kidding me?
Like, there are people out therewho are like, So let's say you
have like a misunderstanding of like a purse.
No, no, no, no, sorry, sorry. So let's say someone's been done
dirty to you, and then you go and hang out with that person

(01:03:56):
who done you dirty, and then youhave the audacity to come up to
me and be like, well, I have a good relationship with them.
So I'm not going to sabotage myself just because of the
problem between both of you. Really just go.
Like go and be with that disrespectful person who's not
only going to do shit, who not only did shit to me, but they're

(01:04:18):
bound to do shit to you. Especially if that person
thrives on spreading rumors, creating false stories, and
creating a whole false narrative.
Just because you are so deep into your sadness and insecurity
that you cannot control it, so you have to go and attempt to
destroy other people's lives. These people piss me off, Oh my

(01:04:44):
God. Oh, you're talking about the
bullying people. You're talking about the nasty
people now? Yeah, I'm talking about
bullying. People got it.
So what You're talking about hisloyalty but also trust?
Absolutely. Yep, and not and not siding with
someone right that deeply did hurt you and they're like, oh,
but we're OK. So I see that a lot in
friendships and I see a lot of autistic people have trouble

(01:05:05):
navigating that too, because again, the people pleasing kicks
up. Of.
Course, so now, do they disappoint you?
Do they disappoint the other person?
Right? And it's like, well we are good
friends and you've seen all these bad things.
Sadly, and I didn't mean to cut you off, but sadly, I see this a
lot in actual romantic relationships too, where they'll
see their partner say something or do something bad to someone

(01:05:26):
else or a waitress, waiter, whatever it is, maybe someone at
the store. But like, they didn't do it to
me. But I'm like, but they're being
really, they're being really nasty to a lot of people
continuously. So sometimes it's it's nuance.
And then sometimes you're like, wait a minute, we're getting to
some dangerous waters here. Sometimes you have to peel back
the layers and you're like, oh, they are treating you poorly and

(01:05:49):
you just should see it. I agree with that, Yeah.
Yeah, To this day, I'm still trying to figure out whether or
not it's it's disrespectful for your friend to be with someone.
I'm not talking about like bullying, but like, what about
people who just simply could notget along?
Like I had someone who attemptedto manipulate me and try to

(01:06:14):
portray me as the villain and try to get to serve them in a
way. So and this this had run through
my mind a lot, which I'm over over now.
Like I don't care anymore. But so then there's also new
ones as to like, OK, can did we really dislike each other or did

(01:06:35):
they really dummy dirty? Like who knows?
I mean time will tell. Like if they're meant to be,
they'll stay. If not by, at least I'll find
better people. So.
So it's not always about quantity with you and many of
us, a lot of no divergent folks.It's just having good people.
I always tell clients and students how long as you got

(01:06:56):
like 1, you don't need to have like 30 friends.
Like that's not a thing. Very overwhelming.
I don't know how you juggle thatmany people and actually how are
you real with that many people. But I think that's a big thing
that a lot of folks, and I love that you said that it's about
quality. I think most of our followers
and listeners would agree with that too.

(01:07:16):
Yeah. You got any other seasoning for
Spence? Any other questions?
No, that's all I got. Unless you've got something.
Now they hit up all the topics that I wanted, honesty, truth.
I wanted them to also talk and advocate for some of the things
that they were talking about. I knew that they were going to
be very spot on with some of thethings when it comes to

(01:07:39):
marginalization, oppression, speaking out for others.
Love the loyalty bit. Spencer talks about that a lot
too. Just appreciate you coming on.
I'm glad that you picked some scenes for us.
I know some sometimes that's really hard.
I had to shoot down some of the other stuff.
Michael Jackson, I'm so sorry. I'm glad that you picked this
though. This was a good topic.
Thank you so much for coming on Zara.

(01:08:00):
I appreciate it. With that, I'm Spencer.
That's not as different Spectrumpodcast.
Hi everyone, much appreciation, much love, and remember, take
care of yourselves or don't, that's completely up to you.
Peace. Tony, Tony.
Tony. Tony.

(01:08:21):
Tony. Tony.
Tony. Tony.