March 17, 2025 • 64 mins
We tackle the complex dynamics of preserving Oromo identity while raising confident children who can thrive in American society. Our conversation explores how parents can cultivate strong cultural roots at home while preparing kids to succeed in spaces where they might be the only Oromo in the room.
• Creating an intentional Oromo-speaking environment at home to preserve language across generations
• Using music, art, and stories to build emotional connections to Oromo heritage
• Understanding how historical divisions between Oromo tribes continue to impact community relationships
• Addressing the scarcity mindset that prevents many Oromos from supporting each other professionally
• Recognizing that cultural identity isn't something to prove but something you inherently possess
• Moving beyond survival mentality to intentionally preserve and celebrate our culture
• Increasing Oromo visibility in diverse professional fields beyond traditional career paths
• Finding the courage to be the first to reach out and build connections in professional spaces
Join the conversation in the comment section or on our Instagram page to share with us what you think. We do not have all the answers and our biggest goal is to kick off and get the conversation going. May Allah accept our efforts and use us as catalysts for change.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult
Conversations where we tackletaboo topics in a safe space
through empowerment andeducation.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Assalamu alaikum everybody, welcome back to this
new exciting episode.
But I'm going to start out withasking the ladies how you're
doing, how are you feeling?
I see that there's a cup ofcoffee on the table and there's
so much energy happening already.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'm sorry I'm so jittery.
This is like my third cup ofcoffee today.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, so I think we might have to take that away.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
You just have your water bottle.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Honestly, I don't drink enough water.
Well, I don't, and it shows onmy face.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But yeah, like I said earlier, you look really
beautiful today.
Thank, you.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Both of you look very beautiful.
Mashallah, I like your kajal.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
That you have going on.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, so Today we're gonna be.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The highway is the burning queen today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I am.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I love she's representing Fall.
Today we're going to be talkingabout the Hi-Base, the burgundy
queen.
Today, I love she'srepresenting.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's her color, yes, leaning to fall color, and I
love this color and it's kind ofhighlighted.
Is fall your favorite.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I like fall.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I like fall, I like the comfort that it brings and I
think sometime after daylightsaving I have more energy, I
realize, and before that I'mkind of in like in transitional
space After or before Afterdaylight saving I have more
energy when the sun goes down atfour.
I get up early, so I get upreally early and I like the
morning routines to be doneearly in the morning, so I'm
(01:38):
much more productive.
Focused, determined drive,that's good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So that's what I'm at Right before the seasonal
depression.
Yes, exactly, exactly, it'sbeen raining.
I'm glad you clapped that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Right there, yep.
The calm before the storm.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Exactly so.
But today we want to talk aboutour people, oromo people, and
we want to talk about a lot ofstuff that's related to how do
we kind of cultivate, foster ourcommunity and, in a sense of
like visualizing how to bedriven people, creating spaces,
kind of like encouraging oneanother.
(02:15):
And I want to start off withkind of like general discussion
where, like as Oromo people, wewere talking about earlier that
how in the previous episode too,that we're very timid people
and we also, like we have atendency of collective people
pleasing and where we're able todo that to outsider but
(02:37):
internally, among each other,we're not like that.
So today's episode is going tobe about understanding how do we
be able to be in a differentspace with confidence and not
have these reservations and fearorientated, so we can be able
to kind of flourish as people.
(02:59):
I think a lot of that happenshome-wise, environmental-wise
and so many other psychological,social behavior.
Psychology or sociology has animpact on that.
But we're going to talk abouttoday from a different
perspective, which is kind ofunderstanding.
How can we be able to create asupported environment for our
(03:19):
kids in a household that theycan have that quality that we
want in a different spaces.
So that's the question that wewant to kind of explore.
I want you guys as an audienceto please think about that and
how ways that you guys can kindof think about your family too
as well, and for yourself.
But I want to talk to myco-host here and ask them like
(03:41):
how do you as a parent cultivatespace and environment that is
safe for your kids to be able todevelop strength and Oromo
identity?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
For me.
Me and my husband are, like,because I am trying to learn
Oromofa, like, so we speak Oromoin the house, and then I'm
horic, um, and obviously englishtoo, uh, we used to do a lot
more english, uh, but then now,because actually we have, um, a
(04:15):
mexican, uh, neighbor that'sright in front of us and our,
their kids are the same age tomy son and their kids are
completely fluent in Spanish, soI was like I want that.
So I kind of we kind of startedimplementing more of the you
know.
Normally we kind of I go in andout of three different
(04:35):
languages at the same time, butnow we're kind of staying in
that language more.
And even Yusuf, he's askinglike mama, I want to speak
Oromia, how do you say this inOromo, how do you say that in
Oromo?
And Nafi's right behind him mama, I want to know too, me too.
So, um, that's like we'restarting with language.
(04:56):
And then also, I play a lot ofAlibera in the house, um, and
just because I feel like I wantthem to see that visual, you
know, um, of Oromia and likethat Oromo sound, because you
know some, there's a thing tomusic, right, like it kind of
introduces you to feelings withthe language and relation to
(05:20):
that.
Um, there's also like this, umviolinist that's in on youtube
she does this.
It's just, it's justinstrumentals and but it's like
it just shows you oromia in,like in, uh yeah, like it's um
bird's eye view the mountains,the waterfalls, literally.
(05:40):
I watched that, I sent it toactually to zehra when we were
doing the mapping of the book,and it just puts you in that
like wow, this is so beautiful,this is home.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I want that.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So we do a lot of that and we're like this is
Oromia, this is back home, andso we kind of do a lot of that
and obviously it helps that wehave, you know, his grandparents
that are here, that we have youknow his grandparents that are
here and that speak fluentOromifa, and I talk to him in
Oromifa, order him around inOromifa.
His favorite word I don't knowit's not necessarily Oromo, but
his favorite word is like Balage.
He's like you're, so, mama,don't be Balage.
(06:15):
Is that Oromo?
I mean, you guys have Oromifiedit.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, the origins are in my heart, really yeah, the
origins are in Park.
Really yeah, balagate, it'slike bad right, don't be bad,
yeah, don't be bad.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, so I think for me, I think for a long time,
like I have family that's kindof mixed with other cultures and
like marriage and stuff likethat, and so I grew up almost
seeing a lot of like oromosaround me, my uncles, my aunts
and whatever marrying outside.
(06:49):
Oromo.
But one thing I've noticed isthat a lot of the times the
Oromo identity, or like it, kindof rarely gets passed on to the
kids.
And so I've thought a lot aboutthat and I've asked myself,
like you know, if my husband wasan Oromo, would I speak Oromo,
(07:10):
you know?
And I guess is there somethingthat allows other cultures to
kind of, you know, hold on totheir language, their culture
and stuff like that.
But that's not necessarily thecase for Oromos and diaspora.
That's one question, becauseright now, you know, as I'm
raising my kids and and stufflike that, like Bonnie said, you
(07:35):
have to be super intentionalabout speaking the language,
because it's not, it's becauseall the you know, all the stuff
they watch, you know, they're atschool eight hours a day and so
you almost have to push against, you know, push against the
current in order to instillthese into your kids.
And the other day my oldest shewas, like you know, mom, I'm the
(07:56):
only Oromo in my class you know, and so right now she's at that
age where she's building heridentity and she's identifying
herself in relations to me andrelations to her.
You know her family and hercousins and stuff like that.
So it's really important for meand, as a parent, you have to
make this decision intentionally, you know.
(08:17):
You have to be like OK, theseare the things that you know
that I can choose to pass on,and I think language and culture
is very, very important to me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I wonder, if you guys talk to your spouse about it
right, like having you'reraising these kids and they're
going to be eventually a moreOromo American kids, right?
Their first identity is goingto be I'm American and in my
ethnicity and my parents'ethnicities are Oromo and
they're from this land.
How do you guys have thoseconversations with your spouse
(08:47):
where, in a sense, that isintentional practices in your
household versus kind of likeideology that everybody knows
this should happen but there'snot an actual practical
conversation happening insidethe house.
So how do you guys have thoseconversations?
Or do you have thoseconversations?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yes, so for my husband and I, you know, we've
talked a lot about making surethat we talk Oromo to each other
, you know, because English isalways the easiest language for
both of us, because you can, youknow, explain and stuff like
that.
And my Oromo wasn't that strongactually before I married my
husband and his Oromo mashallah,like you know.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Bonnie's.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
like I didn't know that information no honestly,
you know, like my oromo was notthat strong.
But after we got married, youknow, and the funny thing is is
that he would talk to me inEnglish, and so I kept pushing
back on him.
He was like I already knowEnglish, you know, talk to me in
English.
And so I kept pushing back onhim.
He was like I already knowEnglish, you know, talk to me in
Oromo.
Wait pause, how did you loseyour Oromofa?
(09:50):
I didn't lose it, but withoutOkay.
So, for example, when we firstcame to this country, I knew
Swahili too, but completely Iforgot Swahili.
Okay, because if you don't usethe language, you lose it.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's true, and my Oromo, I mean, I started from
second grade here, so it's likeyou.
Like I said earlier, you're inschool and stuff like that.
You don't have a lot of chancesto practice it.
My parents speak Oromo, buteven their Oromo is mixed with
Somali, because my parents.
(10:23):
They spent a lot of time inSomalia and stuff like that.
So the Oromo that I learned islike super mixed, and so when
I'm conversating with my husbandI'll say certain words and
he'll be like no that's not yeah, that's not this, this does not
mean this, and so, like he likefirst couple years, he made fun
(10:43):
of me Like to the moon and back.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So yeah, that's literally my story, except I
didn't speak Oromifa Like barelyI speak Amharic, and Jaylen's
family, and like my family also,kind of what they did is that
we spoke English and Amharic inthe house and then Oromofa was
like I don't not really thatmuch so um, and then context to
(11:12):
that is that we grew up inAntisawa, right, so like yeah,
so I guess that's.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's what I want to know.
Like that, that's my milliondollar question.
Is that why, like in the caseof Oromos, why is it that it's
really easy for us to lose thelanguage?
It's really easy for us to like, assimilate and not visibly be
Oromo.
You know what I mean.
Like what?
(11:35):
What factor?
What?
Like what's going on here?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So do you want the anthropology aspect, do you want
evolutional psychology aspect?
Do you want sociology aspect ofthat answer?
So what?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
give me, give me the layman's, like I think this and
this.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Ok, so here's my understanding of why we do that.
I think we are surviving, Rightunderstanding of why we do that
.
I think we are surviving, right.
When we are surviving, we arenot thinking about how can we
preserve our culture andtradition.
We're thinking about how can Isurvive today, right, and even
coming to the US for Oromopeople, we're still surviving.
Does that make sense?
(12:13):
Even though, like, how do weget here?
War, this come.
Like, how did your parents endup in somalia?
That's true war, right, and sowe didn't come because we want
to be here.
We came because we didn't haveany other choices but to leave
that space.
So when we come, surviving, it'slike we, our generation, are
(12:34):
the one that having theconversation saying how can we
preserve our culture andtradition?
But our parents who are livingin this country or abroad in
Australia, canada, europe arenot thinking about how can we
preserve our culture, instead ofhow can we make bread, how can
we feed our kids, how can weprotect them out of dangers that
exist in reality?
(12:55):
And so, because of thatmechanism, the prevention of
culture, tradition, uh, that andall this stuff is not a
priority, and I think if to.
That's why this episode isreally necessary to have a
conversation around is that ourgeneration.
Let's not be complacent, right?
Let's not be so sucked intothis cultural western culture,
(13:17):
culture of like, surviving, butalso, how can we do
simultaneously a balanced way ofraising kids that are proud?
Oromo are in a different spacesas far as career choices or in
so many aspects of it.
So that's why, when I ask youguys that question of like, did
you and your spouse talk aboutit?
Do you guys have thoseconversation or is just
(13:39):
something automatically you guysare implementing?
And that's why I'm wonderingabout that.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, and I want to answer that question and then
also address the point of thesurvival apparatus.
Yes, me and my husband did talkabout it because, again, I
wanted to learn Ormfa.
One, because I wanted to connectwith his parents and, and
better, um, two, I wanted I feltlike that was an opportunity
(14:08):
for me to to kind of get myroots in my culture and roots in
my, because language is the thefastest way that you can get
acclimated to a culture.
So, um, that and then um and I,because of that we made sure
that was a thing and then alsowe knew that, like I, before we
(14:28):
got pregnant, we did a lot ofresearch about, like how kids
that have roots, strong culturalroots, strong cultural
backgrounds, that like, if youobviously religion is one thing
but culture is also, the moreI'm going to use that word again
the more strong anchors thatyou have, strong ground and you
(14:49):
know fundamentals that you have,the harder it is or the less
likely you are to float to getlost you know and to also have
someone else challenge um ormake you feel inferior, because
then your identity is not basedoff of your feelings and
emotions.
It's based off of so much whatallah says you are, what your
(15:11):
culture says you are, your.
Your do's and don'ts are basedoff of not what you feel like
doing and what you don't feellike doing, but it's also about
like what my culture allows,what my culture doesn't allow.
You know the traditions andthen also, obviously, your dean
right.
So because of that, we reallywere into about talking about
like and that's also how I got alot more involved in the Oromo
(15:34):
activism and obviously, you know, since 2016 till I think it was
like to 2020, there was a lotof like Oromo.
You know aero movements.
It was just so easy to be ableto be focused in the Oromo
culture.
So that's why the conversationstarted and then, that's how you
know we had that conversation.
But talking about that survivalapparatus just to give you
(15:56):
another answer too is that Oromopeople, I think for the last
hundred years, have been theOromo language, has not been,
unless you were in Oromia, likein the Redoa, or you know
Badeysa, or you were in Nageleor some place like that, badeysa
, or you were in Nagele or someplace like that.
(16:18):
If you went outside of Oromia,if you went like, or, you know,
if you wanted to go to thecities, the language that you
needed to know to be able tomake money was a different
language.
It's Amharic, if you.
So again, that survivalapparatus, the ability, and then
that creates an inferioritycomplex right.
(16:39):
That creates an inferioritycomplex right.
So for those people that spokeAmharic, it's kind of like
knowledge instead of languagePrivilege too.
Yeah, so you're more likely toget hired.
If you speak Amharic without anaccent, you're even easier to
get hired, and that's, besidesyour qualifications right.
(17:01):
And then when you come here,english is the language for you
to be able to make money Also aspecific kind of English, right
yeah, professional English.
The reason why I think ourculture, our Oromofa, our
Oromoma or Oromo people are morelikely to kind of get lost in
(17:25):
these spaces is because we havethis culture about community.
We have this culture aboutpushing our family and making
sure that our family does a lotbetter than us.
So our parents, they figured,figured, hey, my accent is
holding me back, my lack oflanguage is holding me back.
So I want to make sure that mykids don't have that problem,
(17:47):
right?
So they make sure that theypush us into more english
speaking you know spaces andthey try to speak to us in
english at home and all of thesethings.
Or, if it's back home, inAmharic and Amharic speaking
spaces.
That way, when you might be,like, completely sterilized from
your Oromo accent, you might becompletely sterilized from you
(18:09):
know your Oromo language in theattempt of you being not having
the same issues that they did.
Because, again, again, survival, like when you are in survival
mentality, like the habe said,you're not thinking about the
future and the you know, thepreservation of traditions and
so on and so forth.
Um so yeah, I think that's why.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Um yeah I think, yeah , so that brings a really good
point, because hearing you saythat you know about the survival
apparatus, um, I think aboutthe whole maslow's hierarchy you
know, like we're we're not evenpast the first two levels for
us to be, like, thinking abouthow to preserve our language,
(18:50):
you know, and all that stuff nowgoing on to you know, now that
we are here, we're in thiscountry, you know, I used to
think about the whole idea oflike a salad versus a melting
pot.
You know about what the US isand I've always wanted to for it
to be more like a salad.
You know that you have all ofthese different parts.
(19:12):
You know, and all these partsare visible and you can see them
in the bowl, but there's stillone whole thing, um, and I, I
wanted my identity, when I passit on to my kids, to be that way
.
You know, I want them to beAmerican, I want them to be
Oromo, I want them to be Muslim,um, you know, and how do we
cultivate that in a way where itsets up our kids for success?
(19:36):
you know, in careers and in justthe American society and also
having roots back home, becauseyou know that is.
I do want to go back home oneday, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I think a couple of things with that right there is,
traditionally, when you'reraising young kids, what are you
doing at home, I think, whenyou know culture-wise, like
bonnie was suggesting earlierlike we play music, do we read,
do we find autumnal books, do wefind um autumnal activities or
do we kind of have autumnalcelebration as community, do we
go to like each other housewhere kids are kind of like
(20:12):
autumnal and they're kind oflike probably talking about that
instead of um aspect?
So it starts from inside thehouse and what you and your
intention as a parent and thegoals that you have for your
kids, right.
So if you decided that you knowwhat I want my kids to go to
Ivy League college, for exampleright, then your focus is going
to be solely academic, right,you're going to go into like
(20:34):
100%.
They're going to do what is it?
Puma or something I'm trying toremember, some like mathematic
stem thing, that it's like a,it's like a tutoring things that
people do after school, likepuma, I don't know.
I don't know, anyway somebodywould know in the audience, but
anyway, like a lot of, forexample I'm not.
I'm not dreaming a lot of Daisykids, for example.
(20:58):
Right, daisy culture isacademic, is like all they think
about.
Daisy parent specificallybecause I grew up with a lot of
Daisy kids, it's like academicis number one thing.
So parents are like puttingtheir kids into this and this
and this and all this planningis kind of like setting them up
for their own academic successso they can attend Ivy League
(21:20):
college, because that is asuccess according to the parents
.
When it comes to, for example,our people, our Oromo people, to
encourage the identity,something similar as that needs
to be provided with the parentsand how, simultaneously, they
can kind of set their kids upfor success when it comes to
being proud of their identity,it's how do we talk about our
culture?
How excited are you about yourculture?
(21:42):
Like those messaging that isprovided inside the household is
what encouraged?
Like, how do we talk aboutother fields of career?
Right, do we kind of minimizethings?
I'm kind of jumping a lot ofstuff you guys can kind of
unpack specifically.
So it's like how do we talkabout anything in the household
so the kids can go to theseother spaces?
That is not like them.
(22:03):
They're able to find theirsense of grounding there.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I think storytelling really helps.
You know, with kids um mydaughter specifically like we do
story um, story time everynight and she kids at this age,
they're like so interested andso curious about everything, uh,
and so I would tell them, like,stories that my parents tell me
um about back home, uh, and andstuff like that.
(22:29):
And one thing I will say is that, like, as Oromos, we are not
one thing right.
We have so many differentcultures, so many.
We're not a homogeneous ethnicgroup.
And you know, if you put like,for example, if you put somebody
from Jimma or Harar or Arsi,they probably need translators
(22:52):
for each other.
You know, and I think sometimesthat's what.
What makes it hard is thatbecause we don't have like, yes,
we are Oromos, but we are, likeso vastly different that when
you see things online it mightconfuse somebody.
And you have people that arekind of gatekeeping warriors,
(23:15):
you know they're like, oh, thisis not Oromor, this is not
Oromor.
You know they're like, oh, thisis an automore, this is an
automore, you know, and stufflike that.
So it makes you, as a parent, Ifeel like have to navigate that
and find ways to get your kidsto understand that as well.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So basically kind of diversifying the automore
culture.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, there's different automores and there's
not one thing.
And you know, we have differentreligions, we have different
practices and you know how.
What like for a long timegrowing up, this is what I
struggled with is that, you know, sometimes I felt like there
was mainstream oromo, you knowthat was being pushed and like
and stuff like that.
(23:52):
And then there was me, right,and so it's like do I fit in
there, you know, and so it was.
It took a lot of soul searchingand a lot of doing a lot of
internal work to be like youknow who says this is Oromo and
this isn't Oromo, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
So yeah, I think I hear, I hear a lot of what
you're saying and, especially assomeone that kind of lived
outside of, like you know, Iguess in a way like bird's eye
view right, I had a veryperipheral vision or sight of
the Oromo community for most ofmy life.
(24:32):
One thing I know is that itreally is important to talk
about Oromoma as in somethingthat is just you are.
It's not something that youhave to prove, it's not about
the way you talk, it's not aboutthe way you practice certain
things.
You are, it's in your blood andthat way, it's not something
(24:56):
people can take away from you.
You are that class and that,because you are oromo and I am
oromo, there is a bond thereright, there's a community there
.
Yeah, that has to be somethingthat's extremely emphasized,
because and that's alsosomething that is very important
in my family is that, again, aswe were just excited to be
(25:18):
Oromo, because back in AddisAbaba we really didn't talk
about being Oromo- it was justyou're just Ethiopian, like
moving around, speaking Amharic,and then obviously my name is
very Oromo, all my names are,you know, it's very Oromo, like
my, my, my, you know my uncle,mosisa, mosisa.
(25:40):
It's very like, very, veryhorrible.
So, um, you, and then you havethat like I am it, regardless of
what I am capable of or howmuch I know, right, baseline,
base, foundation.
And then when you have thatrelation and you're like, okay,
because, because it's just likethe blood that runs in our blood
(26:01):
in our body, there there's awhite person that has a blood,
red blood, there's a blackperson that has a red blood,
there's a christian person,there's a muslim, right, so
you're not surprised by the factthat there's different otomo
people that have differentcultures, that have different
religions, that have differentidentities and whatever right.
Cultures that have differentreligions, that have different
identities and whatever right.
That, that kind of bringing itthat simple.
(26:23):
It is.
Uh, I feel like and I lovedthat conversation me and my
grandfather actually used tohave of, like he taught me my
great, great, great, great, likeit's like I could literally go
on and name my great, great,great great by their first name
and last name, and that givesyou roots, and I think I say all
(26:43):
of this to say that one.
We have to be able to go back tothat.
Go back to the source, go backto the fact that you are Oromo,
regardless.
That's what you need.
That's what you need to connectwith another Oromo person.
Stop asking if that person'sHararon.
It's great, you can have that.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Can I ask where do you feel like the
differentiation is coming from?
Within that differentiation,there is a sense of animosity,
there is a sense of resentment,there is a sense of the
hierarchy of I'm better than youkind of, too, I love that.
That's where we should be, andI'm noticing how that is not
where we are.
Does that make sense?
So, like, where do you feel thelevel of this differentiating?
(27:26):
Like you're rc, you're this,you're that, you're shasha money
, you're wallaka, you're hotter?
Like there is.
Why is that even necessary?
Because our sorry, I'm sorry,go that was it.
That's what I think is great totalk about what we want to be
versus like and also notaddressing where we are right we
are at that misplaced placeright now.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, the reason why I say that, what I was going to
jump in and say was that we arehuman, humans, love to
categorize and it's the, it'sour brain's way of finding the
easiest connection, the most themost comfortable place, right,
if you are Harar, I'm Harar, thechances are me and you have
(28:06):
more commonalities based off ofthe way we talk what's
appropriate, what's notappropriate, versus me and RC
person.
Right, and obviously me and anRC person have something more
common than a Somali person andI, and so we categorize and go,
go, go, go.
It's like a Russian doll sothat we can get to that person.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
That's the most comfortable, that we don't have
to code switch with all the time, right, but then with that,
just like all humans, comesjudgment, criticism, superiority
, complex, all of that thing,stereotypes, stereotypes, and we
other the other person, anddefinitely and stereotyped and
we other, the other person and,um, definitely, and I think the
(28:42):
hardest thing sorry to cut youoff, but hardest thing with
oromo is that even before, likewhen somebody speaks in oromo,
you can probably pick it upwhere they are from yeah yeah,
you know, and so I think,because you can do that, it's
really hard for you know, forthem, for everybody to be like
we're all oromo you know, let'swe are, we just have a different
dialogue.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Right, we are oromo, yeah, no, I'm saying to those
people yeah, yeah, and we have adifferent dialogue, we have
different and the culture isbeautiful.
I think our diversity is whatmakes us really nice, exactly
yeah and so to kind of addressthat, it's important to know the
the discomfort that comes upand how do we deal with that
(29:21):
right first before we get to theactual conversation, the things
that we wanted to address today.
So I wonder if you guys cantalk about a little bit of the
discomfort that arises, thatcreates the barriers to the
actual topic that we're havingtoday, even though we're kind of
starting a little bit um, thatdiscomfort, the things that
created with the animosity, theresentment, the I want to be the
(29:43):
only person to be in this space, kind of thing.
Right, that conversation.
I want you guys to expand onthat a little bit.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.
I think it starts at home.
Like with everything, it startsat home, you know, and I think
our parents do us such adisservice when they are
perpetuating these likestereotypes or you know,
so-and-so is like this RC,people are like this, people are
like this, you know.
And so when you hear thatgrowing up, um, and when you
(30:14):
have friends that are thosegroups or whatever, um, you kind
of, it's like you look for whatyou've been told.
You know what I mean and itreinforces what you've been told
at home.
So I think because of that,it's hard to break certain
things, but it's on us to gobeyond these and kind of build
(30:36):
those relationships.
And I think the biggest thingthat in our community that can
bring us all together is these,like community centers or
masjids.
Again, you know, and again thatis where our failure lies yeah,
you know how it's cause.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I think about like resource hoarding right when you
are told yeah, I literally thisthis, this example just kind of
came into my mind.
Yeah, during the 90s and the80s, um, there was only allowed
to be in the supermodel worldone black supermodel, right?
So, um, you know, the fashionshows, whatever, whatever they
(31:18):
will only have have one blacksupermodel and the minute
there's a better, bigger,beautiful supermodel, they kick
this one out and place this one.
So that created a resourcehoarding and that created
competition, not with the other,but between these two equally
beautiful, equally capable blackgirls, because they were all
(31:40):
fighting for one spot, or whatthey thought was that one spot.
Right?
So that, like, if you, if youlisten to a lot of like what's
called, like people, models,like supermodels, old models,
talk about like that competitionand how that was like it really
emotionally draining because,and even in the acting space,
right in hollywood, actresses,black actresses, while there was
(32:02):
like a hundred billion, um,white actresses that were
thriving right in competitionbut like healthy competition, uh
, black art actresses were toldthat there's only one spot for
you, right?
So there was, there was a lackof creating a union, there was a
lack of support, there was alack of this.
That's also the same thing withthe oromo and with, like, in a
(32:25):
bigger context, there's that'salso the same thing with the
oromo people, in the sense thatyou know, when the ethiopian,
the country was, you know,controlled by the empire,
emperor, or you know whatever.
All these amara integrate um,uh, leadership.
There has always been a pointto make sure that the only way
(32:48):
you can divide people is bymaking them one over.
Like you know, fight over eachother, right, fight each other
so they don't fight you.
That's what happened hereduring slavery.
Yeah, rwanda, divide andconquer, yeah, so I think
because of that.
And then you know that kind ofum, that kind of uh, that kind
(33:09):
of um, I guess, in a way,programming.
It takes a long time,conditioning, it takes a long
time to undo.
Yeah, right, so our parents arethe victims of that programming
and they might not be nowfighting over that one job.
And then that also kind of you,you stop separating it from why
(33:30):
, why you are doing because,like, again, I don't know if you
guys have heard about that micetheory you don't know why, why
you feel this way about thispeople, but you feel this way
about these people all of thesudden.
You know because you have thisbeen this thing that you've been
taught a long time ago?
But what you feel stays, notwhat you know, right, um?
(33:51):
So I think that's why everydifferent, every different tribe
has some sort of feeling abouteach other, and I like, for me
specifically, like growing up, Ihear a lot about, like, my
dad's war stories.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
You know, um, he was from a generation that did the
whole uprising, the Baliuprisings with my grandfather,
um, and things like that, and sowhen he tells us stories, it's
all it's.
It's like, you know, thesegroups of people were the ones
that sold us out.
You know, this tribe was theone that brought the you know
(34:28):
the enemy to your grandfather,and so when he tells a story, he
tells it with such emotionbecause he lived through that,
you know, and so, but what ourjob is to disassociate the
people back then that he wasdealing with and their
descendants you know, becauseyou can't hold the children
(34:51):
responsible for what theirfathers did.
The crimes of the parents, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And also even in that moment right, that again I
don't know what stories you'retalking about and who you're
talking about.
I'm just making a statement ingeneral, which is there even in
that moment there's a degree ofseparation between the tribe and
the people that did thosethings.
Right, it's not the whole tribe.
Again, I'm not invalidatingwhat your father was feeling.
(35:16):
I'm just saying that because ofthese stories that we keep
getting told, we don't have amoment as a community to kind of
just stop and say these peoplethat did these things might be
doing it for, you know, gainslike capital gains.
They might have been paid, theymight have been threatened,
they might have been whatever.
(35:37):
It might be an individual basisversus a tribal basis, right,
and it might just be.
Also these people might beextremely tribalistic and then
there might be um, you know thatalso could be.
But then we have to always tryto protect the tokuma aspect of
it, so kind of trying toindividualize it as much as we
can and like maybe even group,you know, keep it in the group
(36:00):
aspect.
But one thing I'll give uscredit for, alhamdulillah, is
that this new generation thatyou know either in diaspora is
very awake to that, more thaneven our generation.
It's much more awake to that,much more awake to being able to
be more involved, more vocal,more knowledgeable.
(36:22):
I mean, the University ofMinnesota is teaching an Oromo
language course, oromo studies.
Like that didn't come out ofnothing, that came because there
is a demand for it, I mean.
So I say all of this to saythat, yes, we are, one step at a
time, breaking away from thatlike tribalistic mentality.
(36:43):
Maybe we're doing it veryslowly, yeah, but I feel like
we're heading somewhere.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
So, basically, what I'm hearing from both of you is
that we also need to do a littlebit of hailing and
simultaneously continues tocreate space for one another and
acknowledging that history didhappen and some of the things
that we can learn from history.
How can we continue to do betterso that we can have a better
foster community that will bekind of collective instead of
(37:13):
kind of, you know, exiling oneanother, right?
So, and that is something thatwe're just trying to talk about
here in today's episode is kindof highlighting okay, this is
what the historical event is,this is our experiences, this is
our challenges and this iswhere we used to be and at in
some aspect of it today, too, isthat?
(37:33):
What are ways that we canimprove that as we move forward
and in a different aspect offields?
Right, this episode was kind ofmainly about talking about
Oromo.
Individuals are not in adifferent professional spaces.
Even if we are, we're not veryvisible, right, and the
visibility is like because we,especially the women, even the
(37:56):
men, they look like Somali, sosometimes it's like everybody
assumed they're Somali but,they're not saying, well, I'm
not Somali but I'm Oromo, likethey're not visibly kind of
saying.
and that's where theconversation about being proud
and finding the identity to beimportant in wherever career
choices that you're at.
So how do we cultivate that?
How do we kind of encourage ourlisteners or individuals that
(38:17):
in our life that, whatevercareer choices that you're in,
how do you make yourself visiblein that?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
space, I think, um reaching out, um and not being
afraid to be the first one tosay hello.
So at my work, um, I'verealized that there's a lot of
people that work with me and youknow, from cleaners to lab
people and stuff like that.
(38:43):
So now I've started to do thisthing where, if they look east
african, I'll talk to them innormal, I'll be'll be like hey,
come here.
And 99% they'll respond backand be like come here you know
what I mean.
So, and I didn't used to do that, and I think on a previous
episode I talked about how I hada nurse working with me who
(39:04):
like for a long time I thoughtshe was Oromo, but then we kept
like passing each other andwe'll just do like this nod
thing, you know.
And so finally I'm like hey,come, how are you?
And then she's like oh my God,this whole time I was thinking
you're Somali, and stuff likethat.
And so, yeah, we became friendsinstantly.
So yeah, that's one thing I'mchanging at work.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, I mean I think I believe in like building
coalition and so if you lookEast African, actually that's
not even true.
I start with black.
I like that If you're justblack.
I am high, my name, I mean Idon't discriminate, I say hi to
everybody, but in speaking, ofin speaking of you know,
(39:46):
building a community.
I start with like, if there'sanyone there that is black, I
community.
I start with like, if there'sanyone there that is black, I
will make sure to go out of myway to kind of introduce, even
if it's just in a, in a team'smeeting or something, and I see
a name or I see a person,whatever I hi, my name is that,
and then of course you can smellthe and have a stress right
like so are you talking?
(40:07):
about you could not?
No, I mean like you couldliterally look at us and tell we
are what we are.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
You don't know if it's like Amara, tigray or Omo,
but like you're able to tell, orSomali, you know they have
injera there.
You can smell the injera.
So I make sure, hey, how areyou If you're wearing hijab?
I say assalamualaikum hijab.
I say assalamu alaikum.
You know what's your deal, whoare you?
(40:33):
Yeah, and then kind of get intothat building a coalition in
that aspect.
And then the one thing I'mtrying to get better at is I.
Normally, when I get to thenormal aspect of it, fear starts
setting in.
Oh, yeah, right, why?
Because then now I want to knowwho you are, I.
I feel like it's a.
There's a big um again.
(40:55):
My history with the Minnesotaoral community is that it's I.
It comes from a space of a lotof judgment, right, uh.
So I want to know who you are,what's your deal, what's your
personality like and um, howclose are we gonna get?
you know what I mean how closeam I gonna let you get?
Um, you do that right away.
Yeah, no, I mean because thething, the truth of the matter
(41:19):
is right.
Um, I can say hi to a madhulperson and like be really cool,
like you know what I mean.
Case in point isn't that what?
Isn't that what they're calledIn that language?
There's a reason why I use thatlanguage.
I just don't know what it'scalled in Oromafa Gurracha, yeah
, so Gurracha, I, I, I.
(41:41):
If it means something bad, Iapologize.
I don't know, I don't speakthat language.
No, no, no, you said somethingcorrect.
But we use a different.
We didn't you didn't describeit in our language.
That's why she said case inpoint, because of that, well, I
don't count, because I barelyspeak.
That's true.
Be kind to her, she's gettingthere, okay.
So, uh, a gurrecha person.
(42:02):
It's like I can just be um chitchatty, like whatever, whatever
, and I'm leaving you at work,you're not following me to my
community.
A somali person, the same way.
A Habesha person, the same way.
The Ormo person.
There's a chance I might writeon to you at the wedding.
You might know my family, youmight know such and such.
So now I have to know, like,where is the line?
(42:23):
Who are you?
Are you that person that'sgoing to be?
Like, oh my God, can I getthere?
Then, if that's the case, boombye.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
You know what I mean.
You want to understand yourboundaries exactly.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I'll have to be a little bit more careful.
But that comes from the spaceof familiarity.
Right, I say all of this to sayall of we have to make sure
that we are building coalitionand then, when we get to the
space of like, going to work, Ido think again, like I want to
(42:57):
make sure I keep giving ourpeople credit.
There is this like Oromolanguage is known now, like
there's no one that like ingovernment or whatever that
doesn't know in healthcare,whatever that doesn't know what
an Oromo language is.
If you request an Oromotranslator, you will have an
Oromo Like.
That's great.
There's some sort of visibilitythere and I remember people
(43:18):
talking about like when peopleask you where are you from, say
I'm Oromo, and they will ask youwhere is that?
And say it's in Ethiopia.
Right, that is informationbuilding.
That is making sure people askquestions, answering those
questions and what do you mean?
Why did you say that and notjust Ethiopia?
And then you go in to explainwhy and all of these things.
(43:38):
But then, when it comes tovisibility and I'm sorry, I
don't mean to harp on this topic, but we have to also make sure
that we show up in surveys, weshow up in in um, when we are
being, you know, like surveys,how it works, surveys in the
community, when's what is um,censuses and all of these things
, because that's how we getfunding, that's how and also
(43:59):
when we network, making sure weput one thing I will say, I'll
say, I'll say over and overagain mashallah, our somali
brothers and sisters are reallygood about this, about Wallahi
they know something they know aplace that has something going
on.
They would be like I know you,you are really good at this, you
(44:20):
should.
I remember this girl.
I don't, she doesn't even knowmy name.
I was working, I was in college.
I was working at a hospital.
I was a registeringregistration person and she said
she came up to me she said hey,why are you working here?
And I was like I was like Ireally was taken aback.
I was like what do you mean?
Like, what do you, what do?
And she's like no, you should,like you should be a flood
(44:43):
because they make like this muchmoney more.
And I know you guys make thismuch and you they're so much
more over time.
And she was like literallytelling me all these things.
And well, she doesn't ask me.
And she's like here is my name,here is my phone number.
When you, when you decide toapply for the position, give
them me, give them my name as areferral or a reference.
(45:03):
And I was like that is so niceyeah you know she doesn't.
She didn't ask my name, shedidn't ask who I was, she didn't
ask whatever I was.
She just saw me and she justwanted to help and she knew she
had information that might behelpful to me.
They're so good about that I'm.
I've had a lot of, a lot ofsomali people that are just that
, have been able to like reachback and pull me up.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Very generous information where do you guys
think that comes from?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
where do you guys think that comes from?
There is again the.
The model example that bonnieprovided was like is similar to
that.
There's a lot of there'sinternal scarcity, right, um,
meaning that like I don't want I, if I give it to her, she's
going to take my spot, rightthat?
The psyche of that, like notthinking that my hug is my hug
and your hug is your hug, likesomali people don't think it as
(45:54):
like this is my only hug.
We're generalizing somali again.
Everybody's different.
Yeah, so it's.
It's more like everybody caneat whatever allah's gonna give
me, allah's gonna give me.
My risk is not going to beshortened because I've shows
here, right, if it's meant forme, it will be that.
But there's, there's a psychelike it's very deep in there.
(46:15):
Scarcity of that I think.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
I think this is.
This is super hyper, umpronounced when it comes to like
business and like businessdeals and you know and all that
stuff, and navigating the spacefor myself now, um's, I'm trying
to exercise this muscle alittle bit.
And you know, just the other daythere was um cause I do you
(46:37):
know like I manage a business onthe side with my husband and
there the MDH was giving away,you know, surplus supplies and
stuff like that.
So I made it a point to gothrough all my contact and like
be like this is what's going on.
You know, come and get this,apply for it, get this apply for
it, blah, blah and stuff likethat.
And honestly, it's a musclethat you have to exercise for it
to get better, because I don'tknow when it started, but we we
(47:00):
do have this like tunnel visionof like you know, if I'm at this
place, then you know I thereshould be only me and I, you
know, I also want to just addmaybe it's not just that, maybe
it's not just that, maybe it'snot even that and it could be.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
I just want to give a different perspective because
it just came to me when I waslistening to it all it could be
a lot of things.
I just want to get somethingelse.
There's a lot of lisi in ourcommunity like oh you don't.
Don't talk about.
Don't talk about what you do.
Don't talk about how much moneyyou make.
Don't talk about how you gotsomewhere.
Don't talk about what you do.
Don't talk about how much moneyyou make.
Don't talk about how you gotsomewhere.
Don't because it's in the fearof the evil eye yeah, yeah, and
(47:37):
also it's seen asbraggadociousness, right, if you
, I know people that can't sitfive minutes with someone else
talking about themselves, aboutwhat, how, how, like life has
turned into, and and that's notin a negative way of they're
wishing bad on them or anythingit makes them uncomfortable
(47:59):
because they think they'rebragging.
There's a lot of people thatare doing epic things.
You wouldn't know about thembecause you don't see them.
They like to work in quiet.
There's a whole culture of putyour head down and work and let
your work talk for itself right,there's more than that.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
I mean it could be.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I'm just saying there's that part to it and one
thing I'm gonna I'm gonna saytoo, is that when, when, in that
space Ahon, for example, um,and it's not just us, I think
Ethiopian Habesham people have alot of that.
There's this supervisor that Ijust met a couple of weeks ago.
She's Ertrid, and I've knownher for two years.
(48:41):
I didn't know she was asupervisor.
I literally didn't know she wasa supervisor.
She's like top dog.
She works with the medicaldirector of Minnesota Department
of Human Services and like allof these things, and I don't
know she's just like, and it'slike humbleness.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
But I think there's a level of hasadumma there too.
I mean, there is.
You want to be the only onethere in the realm of career or
having a business or whatever itis.
There's a level of hasidumathat I don't want to open the
door for somebody else.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Point blank period and that comes from insecurity
of.
Maybe I don't even want you toknow how much I make, because if
you, again I might be justgiving people a lot of benefit
of the doubt right after I saidI'm stopping to give the people
benefits and doubts.
But I think there's also a lotof like secrecy about how much
people make, right.
So there's like, oh, if youhave the same job as I do, you
(49:42):
will know how much I make andyou will know my financial story
, right.
And then there's that aspect,there's that level of detachment
there.
I also think that there is thereality of sometimes we the same
(50:02):
fear that I have, right, like,if this person comes into my
work profession, are they goingto take my you know, are they
going to take it out into thecommunity?
And they're going have thatconversation.
You know, whoever I am into,that there's a lot of um,
insecurity, insecurity.
There's a lot of moving withmoving through insecurity in our
(50:23):
community.
I think.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I think that's why, um, us having this conversation
is really like it's important,because I one of the most
important thing is like how weare.
We have limitation in adifferent aspect of career
choices too, as in as well asnot bringing each other up in
every directions, right, butthere's also limitation.
Um, for me, I really wishthere's more or more artists
(50:48):
right, like a painter or aphotographer or a documentary
writer or a music writer orvideographer.
That is, professionally, theygo to degree and they sustain
and they do this passionatelyand like that diversified career
choice.
(51:08):
I'm really passionate about itbecause obviously I'm a
therapist and I love when I cansee talent in people.
But I'm trying to like, well,you're so good.
Yes, I told Bonnie once I saidyou'll be so great as a
administration MBA,administration in a corporate
setting.
But the thing is that becauseof her skills, her diverse
(51:31):
skills, will provide so muchsupport.
Not only that, it brings peoplealong, it also can execute her
job.
So there's like balance of herRight.
I think.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
I think, bonnie, you do this really well, right, like
you, whenever she sees a jobpost, she's like OK, do this
sees a job post, she's like okay, do this exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
you know.
But I think if there is thislevel of insecurity and and
thinking like there's, there'sless and I don't want people to
take my spot, I want this is metalking to somebody out there
listening to this episode.
Take a moment and ask yourselfwhy you do that right, why do
you feel like your risk is notprovided, and how do we kind of
work on that to reduce thatfeeling?
(52:14):
I know sometimes I have it too,because I think the best way to
kind of make connection toother people within the audience
is to be honest about how youalso struggle with that.
I used to think that.
I used to think that you knowwhat.
I want to be in a specificplace and I want to be the only
known person.
But because in my field there'snot a lot of me, right, I'm the
only one there and sometimesI'm starting to see more right,
(52:37):
and even in grad school there'sonly me.
They're either I'm the blackperson, the Oromo person and the
Muslim person.
Right, I'm in that space, I'mthe only person, and I realized
how lonely that is, because Iwant to talk about certain
things with people in our space.
I want to talk about thestruggles and the concepts.
Sometimes somebody says, likewhy?
(52:58):
Like the microaggression thathappens, the barriers that
happen?
I want to talk to somebody thatlooks like me so we can try to
break through it together.
But if I'm the only one dealingwith that, I feel like at that
moment I'm the only one who hasthis problem.
It doesn't really kind ofextend to everybody else right.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Do you think that when you wanted to be the only
one in your specific field, orwhatever you're in, it gave you
like a sense of accomplishment?
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yes, then that goes back to psyche right Now.
If you are the only one, didyou feel that way about yourself
as a child, like is this yourway of like getting attention
from your parents, right, right,like.
I think about it from thatperspective, Like if you're the
only one, everybody's praisingyou and you did not get that
(53:47):
praise as a child, like you'refilling a void.
You're filling that void.
For me it's like that, and Idon't know about everybody else
who feels that way.
For me it was like that becauseI'm the middle child and I feel
like I'm kind of always in thebackground of everybody's life.
I'm not the center of theirattentions.
So you're always like achieving,achieving, achieving, yes, I'm
achieving.
To do that because now I'mrealizing at this stage of my
(54:09):
life, like no right, no, it'snot that I need more people
around me, I need community, Ineed collectiveness.
I don't want just being me, Iwant other therapists, I want
other psychologists, I wantother doctors who's doing
similar things, so we can talkabout the actual commonality and
how to make this professionmuch more accessible to
(54:29):
everybody else.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
And I think when you guard your post like that, you
can't bring somebody up, no, andyou won't go up yourself.
You don't because there'sanimosity.
So then everybody's juststagnant.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Exactly that animosity that there I literally
work through that and to knowthat that's not.
And that helps with religion,because Allah helped that.
Because when you understandAllah is a Razak, you know your
risk comes from Him.
Why do you have to worry aboutother people taking your spot?
Don't worry about that.
Exactly, it's about who can Ibring me along.
So talk about that experiencefor you guys.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
I want to just add a little bit about the
diversification of careers.
I think one thing as acommunity that we have to be
really good at is making surethat we have people in different
places of power, differentplaces of employment, different
careers, because, if you noticeagain I love to use the Somali
(55:23):
community as an example there'sa lot like you will find a
Somali person anywhere ingovernment, in police, in
hospitals and in education.
Film and film in music, yeah,but we, I need each other out of
opportunity, like we shame eachother out of opportunity or we
discourage each other out ofopportunity we push our
(55:44):
insecurity on one another.
We are really good at aprojection and sometimes we
don't know what we don't know.
Right and again, not just thepulling app aspect of it, but
the opening doors aspect of it.
Right, making sure that peoplethe when you.
Again, what I was going to sayearlier was that when you don't
tell people what you've done,it's like it has never been done
(56:06):
before it has not been done.
So that's actually mysupervisor told me.
She said if you want people toknow that you are valuable, make
sure you shout about your work.
Make sure you shout about thework that you're doing.
That doesn't mean you'rebraggadocious.
It means that you are lettingthem know this work wouldn't
have gotten done if I didn't doit.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
How would they recognize you?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
Exactly so when we say, hey, I am in this space,
right, I am in this space, right, I am in this space and I'm
doing well.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
People would be like what is this space Curiosity?
Yeah, If you can do it, I cando it.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
If you can do it, I can do it.
And just being like there's areason why there's a lot of
nurses automobile nurses,there's a reason why there's a
lot of RTs, right, because theysaw somebody be able to do it
and they were like, oh okay,this person looks like me, this
person acts like me, this personhas I can do it too.
Yeah, we have to.
And then that creates alsoprotection, like I said, being
involved in census, beinginvolved in surveys, being able
(57:00):
to get you know scholarships andfunding, and like I I told you
guys, I went to this classconference that was literally
being given 25 000 for000 fordifferent community
organizations, and there waseveryone there and there was
there was a section that saidOromo and nay, because the
results are not out there.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
There is not out there.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Yeah, and like it was Oromo and Karen, the language,
karen, like and nay.
And I was like are you kiddingme?
So they went looking for us,but we didn't respond.
Right so we missed out.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
We don't even know where there's resources.
That's another thing right.
Because nobody shares, like yousaid, nobody talks about it,
nobody have the conversationabout it, because it was so kind
of like I should only use fixedmindset, and that level is like
how do we get out of that?
Speaker 3 (57:47):
limitation, yeah, and get out of that survival
mentality or like that you know,survival of the fittest, like
we're at some point.
It's not just about the amountof money you're making, but, yes
, there is money that to be madein a lot of different spheres
that we don't know about.
But it's also about making surethat, thinking of the community
.
What does the community need?
(58:07):
The community needs protectionand government.
The community needs educators.
The community needs lobbyists.
The community needs protectionand government.
The community needs educators,the community lobbyists.
The community needs books,music, art.
Right, that's the only way youcan push your culture forward.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, the last thing I would want to add to that is
that if there are people who aretrying new careers, new
professions, and you see themfail, it doesn't mean that you
will fail too yeah or it's not.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
it doesn't mean time for you to laugh at them and
kick them when they're down,because we're really good at
that and that was not a failureeither.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
Just because they tried and they didn't actually
complete, it doesn't mean thatit's not a failure.
Speaker 3 (58:44):
They figured out one more way not to do it.
Speaker 1 (58:47):
So I think we do a lot of sitting on the sidelines
and waiting, being like youfigure it out, now jump in.
Yeah, so growing up in college,I did Amway, as you know, so
the hardest thing is that when,when I was talking to Ramos,
it's like you do it, you becomea millionaire and then I'll join
(59:09):
.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and Ithink that was.
We don't know how to take risk.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
We are so risk averse so risk averse.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
And then finally, like when you are, when you're
constantly told that you justwere like you know what?
I'm not even going to mess withyou guys anymore and also
supporting our community.
Speaker 3 (59:28):
Yeah, supporting, supporting our community.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
Supporting the people that are doing something, when
someone we are more than happy,like supporting this Beyonce and
whatever like little John andlittle Jim, whatever who they
are.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
But then an automobile person does something
.
You know that's a little bit uh, you know a little bit
different, like that girl thatdid a whole gallery right, like
showing up there and seeing Iwas so happy to see her parents
be so proud of her.
Like work Cause you don't seethat normally.
You know, just being able tolike invest, not just with our
voices but also with our money,with our capital, with, my God,
(01:00:00):
automobile people.
Do you know that they are sostingy with their likes and
their comments and their reviewsand their shares?
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
It's a fixed mindset.
It's a fixed mindset.
It's the resentment.
I love you guys, so you lovethe automobile people, right?
Yes, she loves you guys, andthat's actually.
I want to bring it back to acouple of things that I want to
wrap up our show today with isthat the biggest thing is that
support one another, right, andthat means include this podcast
(01:00:29):
and kind of subscribe and shareand listen to it and give us
feedback as well.
But before we do that, I wantus to kind of provide some
action takeaway and things likethat, so that way that we can
kind of give suggestion how wecan open the gate of providing
more ways to have thisconversation.
Go ahead, abani.
Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Yes, thank you.
Oh, my God, in five minutes.
No, I just was thinking aboutthe conversations that we were
having about building communityand building community resources
, like making sure we utilizethe community resources that we
have.
Oswana, do better, be better.
Make sure that you're not justcreating spaces.
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Slow down, slow down.
Okay, you're okay.
Take a deep breath, deep breath.
Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
They need to hear it.
Okay, deep breath, osvana.
I feel like there's a lot moreto do than just leisure
activities, as parties that areuseless and like soccer awesome,
but parties useless.
Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
You could invest in you know, more you know.
Make sure you even use yoursocial media platforms to do
more community work, you knowand create networking
opportunities.
Maybe we should collaboratewith them and join some of the
things that they allow us.
Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Yeah and also not even just ask other people.
Anyone that wants to do it,invite people to your table or
OSU all these communities thathave platforms that have
followers.
Do something with that, outsideof just shaking your what's
called shoulders and dancing tothe music.
We should be purpose-oriented.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
The Oromo Community Center.
We have a lot more to offer.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Yeah, the Oromo.
Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Community Center that's sitting there blank 90%
of the time, that literallypeople use it for rehearsal
space.
We should be investing into itto create debate centers, youth
centers, whatever it is, so thatwe can do something
constructive instead of justleisure activities, you know,
inviting counselors that arethat are going to be able to do
(01:02:26):
um pro bono work there you know,for all workshop, mental health
workshops there, careernetworking spaces, education,
education centers yeah, putmoney into the community.
Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Y'all put time and effort outside of dance
activities, yeah okay, lastthing, as an actionable item, I
would say uh, try one new thingand bring an aroma person with
you absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I with you, absolutely.
I'll end it there and I thinkthat's the best suggestion.
Thank you both and I do want tokind of encourage the you know
the communities to get involved.
Parents, please continue tohave conversation with your kids
.
Don't be afraid to take risk.
It's important at home, evenoutside of the community, and do
(01:03:12):
not like allow your kids to beafraid going out there and if
they're trying something new,allow them to experiment that
with you within on under yoursupervision, obviously, um.
So we want to appreciate ourlisteners and my co-host.
Thank you so much forincredible conversation in depth
of ways to grow our communityand collectively kind of see
each other and understand eachother and support one another
(01:03:34):
With that difficultconversations.
Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Thank you, y'all.
Okay, bye.
Join the conversation in thecomment section or on our
Instagram page to share with uswhat you think.
We do not have all the answersand our biggest goal is to kick
off and get the conversationgoing.
May Allah accept our effortsand use us as catalysts for
change.
Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
MBC All relation to MBC.
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult
Conversations where we tackletaboo topics in a safe space
through empowerment andeducation.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Assalamu alaikum everybody, welcome back to this
new exciting episode.
But I'm going to start out withasking the ladies how you're
doing, how are you feeling?
I see that there's a cup ofcoffee on the table and there's
so much energy happening already.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'm sorry I'm so jittery.
This is like my third cup ofcoffee today.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, so I think we might have to take that away.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
You just have your water bottle.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Honestly, I don't drink enough water.
Well, I don't, and it shows onmy face.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But yeah, like I said earlier, you look really
beautiful today.
Thank, you.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Both of you look very beautiful.
Mashallah, I like your kajal.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
That you have going on.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yes, so Today we're gonna be.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The highway is the burning queen today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I am.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I love she's representing Fall.
Today we're going to be talkingabout the Hi-Base, the burgundy
queen.
Today, I love she'srepresenting.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's her color, yes, leaning to fall color, and I
love this color and it's kind ofhighlighted.
Is fall your favorite.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I like fall.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I like fall, I like the comfort that it brings and I
think sometime after daylightsaving I have more energy, I
realize, and before that I'mkind of in like in transitional
space After or before Afterdaylight saving I have more
energy when the sun goes down atfour.
I get up early, so I get upreally early and I like the
morning routines to be doneearly in the morning, so I'm
(01:38):
much more productive.
Focused, determined drive,that's good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So that's what I'm at Right before the seasonal
depression.
Yes, exactly, exactly, it'sbeen raining.
I'm glad you clapped that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Right there, yep.
The calm before the storm.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Exactly so.
But today we want to talk aboutour people, oromo people, and
we want to talk about a lot ofstuff that's related to how do
we kind of cultivate, foster ourcommunity and, in a sense of
like visualizing how to bedriven people, creating spaces,
kind of like encouraging oneanother.
(02:15):
And I want to start off withkind of like general discussion
where, like as Oromo people, wewere talking about earlier that
how in the previous episode too,that we're very timid people
and we also, like we have atendency of collective people
pleasing and where we're able todo that to outsider but
(02:37):
internally, among each other,we're not like that.
So today's episode is going tobe about understanding how do we
be able to be in a differentspace with confidence and not
have these reservations and fearorientated, so we can be able
to kind of flourish as people.
(02:59):
I think a lot of that happenshome-wise, environmental-wise
and so many other psychological,social behavior.
Psychology or sociology has animpact on that.
But we're going to talk abouttoday from a different
perspective, which is kind ofunderstanding.
How can we be able to create asupported environment for our
(03:19):
kids in a household that theycan have that quality that we
want in a different spaces.
So that's the question that wewant to kind of explore.
I want you guys as an audienceto please think about that and
how ways that you guys can kindof think about your family too
as well, and for yourself.
But I want to talk to myco-host here and ask them like
(03:41):
how do you as a parent cultivatespace and environment that is
safe for your kids to be able todevelop strength and Oromo
identity?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
For me.
Me and my husband are, like,because I am trying to learn
Oromofa, like, so we speak Oromoin the house, and then I'm
horic, um, and obviously englishtoo, uh, we used to do a lot
more english, uh, but then now,because actually we have, um, a
(04:15):
mexican, uh, neighbor that'sright in front of us and our,
their kids are the same age tomy son and their kids are
completely fluent in Spanish, soI was like I want that.
So I kind of we kind of startedimplementing more of the you
know.
Normally we kind of I go in andout of three different
(04:35):
languages at the same time, butnow we're kind of staying in
that language more.
And even Yusuf, he's askinglike mama, I want to speak
Oromia, how do you say this inOromo, how do you say that in
Oromo?
And Nafi's right behind him mama, I want to know too, me too.
So, um, that's like we'restarting with language.
(04:56):
And then also, I play a lot ofAlibera in the house, um, and
just because I feel like I wantthem to see that visual, you
know, um, of Oromia and likethat Oromo sound, because you
know some, there's a thing tomusic, right, like it kind of
introduces you to feelings withthe language and relation to
(05:20):
that.
Um, there's also like this, umviolinist that's in on youtube
she does this.
It's just, it's justinstrumentals and but it's like
it just shows you oromia in,like in, uh yeah, like it's um
bird's eye view the mountains,the waterfalls, literally.
(05:40):
I watched that, I sent it toactually to zehra when we were
doing the mapping of the book,and it just puts you in that
like wow, this is so beautiful,this is home.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I want that.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So we do a lot of that and we're like this is
Oromia, this is back home, andso we kind of do a lot of that
and obviously it helps that wehave, you know, his grandparents
that are here, that we have youknow his grandparents that are
here and that speak fluentOromifa, and I talk to him in
Oromifa, order him around inOromifa.
His favorite word I don't knowit's not necessarily Oromo, but
his favorite word is like Balage.
He's like you're, so, mama,don't be Balage.
(06:15):
Is that Oromo?
I mean, you guys have Oromifiedit.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, the origins are in my heart, really yeah, the
origins are in Park.
Really yeah, balagate, it'slike bad right, don't be bad,
yeah, don't be bad.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, so I think for me, I think for a long time,
like I have family that's kindof mixed with other cultures and
like marriage and stuff likethat, and so I grew up almost
seeing a lot of like oromosaround me, my uncles, my aunts
and whatever marrying outside.
(06:49):
Oromo.
But one thing I've noticed isthat a lot of the times the
Oromo identity, or like it, kindof rarely gets passed on to the
kids.
And so I've thought a lot aboutthat and I've asked myself,
like you know, if my husband wasan Oromo, would I speak Oromo,
(07:10):
you know?
And I guess is there somethingthat allows other cultures to
kind of, you know, hold on totheir language, their culture
and stuff like that.
But that's not necessarily thecase for Oromos and diaspora.
That's one question, becauseright now, you know, as I'm
raising my kids and and stufflike that, like Bonnie said, you
(07:35):
have to be super intentionalabout speaking the language,
because it's not, it's becauseall the you know, all the stuff
they watch, you know, they're atschool eight hours a day and so
you almost have to push against, you know, push against the
current in order to instillthese into your kids.
And the other day my oldest shewas, like you know, mom, I'm the
(07:56):
only Oromo in my class you know, and so right now she's at that
age where she's building heridentity and she's identifying
herself in relations to me andrelations to her.
You know her family and hercousins and stuff like that.
So it's really important for meand, as a parent, you have to
make this decision intentionally, you know.
(08:17):
You have to be like OK, theseare the things that you know
that I can choose to pass on,and I think language and culture
is very, very important to me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I wonder, if you guys talk to your spouse about it
right, like having you'reraising these kids and they're
going to be eventually a moreOromo American kids, right?
Their first identity is goingto be I'm American and in my
ethnicity and my parents'ethnicities are Oromo and
they're from this land.
How do you guys have thoseconversations with your spouse
(08:47):
where, in a sense, that isintentional practices in your
household versus kind of likeideology that everybody knows
this should happen but there'snot an actual practical
conversation happening insidethe house.
So how do you guys have thoseconversations?
Or do you have thoseconversations?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yes, so for my husband and I, you know, we've
talked a lot about making surethat we talk Oromo to each other
, you know, because English isalways the easiest language for
both of us, because you can, youknow, explain and stuff like
that.
And my Oromo wasn't that strongactually before I married my
husband and his Oromo mashallah,like you know.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Bonnie's.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
like I didn't know that information no honestly,
you know, like my oromo was notthat strong.
But after we got married, youknow, and the funny thing is is
that he would talk to me inEnglish, and so I kept pushing
back on him.
He was like I already knowEnglish, you know, talk to me in
English.
And so I kept pushing back onhim.
He was like I already knowEnglish, you know, talk to me in
Oromo.
Wait pause, how did you loseyour Oromofa?
(09:50):
I didn't lose it, but withoutOkay.
So, for example, when we firstcame to this country, I knew
Swahili too, but completely Iforgot Swahili.
Okay, because if you don't usethe language, you lose it.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's true, and my Oromo, I mean, I started from
second grade here, so it's likeyou.
Like I said earlier, you're inschool and stuff like that.
You don't have a lot of chancesto practice it.
My parents speak Oromo, buteven their Oromo is mixed with
Somali, because my parents.
(10:23):
They spent a lot of time inSomalia and stuff like that.
So the Oromo that I learned islike super mixed, and so when
I'm conversating with my husbandI'll say certain words and
he'll be like no that's not yeah, that's not this, this does not
mean this, and so, like he likefirst couple years, he made fun
(10:43):
of me Like to the moon and back.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So yeah, that's literally my story, except I
didn't speak Oromifa Like barelyI speak Amharic, and Jaylen's
family, and like my family also,kind of what they did is that
we spoke English and Amharic inthe house and then Oromofa was
like I don't not really thatmuch so um, and then context to
(11:12):
that is that we grew up inAntisawa, right, so like yeah,
so I guess that's.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's what I want to know.
Like that, that's my milliondollar question.
Is that why, like in the caseof Oromos, why is it that it's
really easy for us to lose thelanguage?
It's really easy for us to like, assimilate and not visibly be
Oromo.
You know what I mean.
Like what?
(11:35):
What factor?
What?
Like what's going on here?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So do you want the anthropology aspect, do you want
evolutional psychology aspect?
Do you want sociology aspect ofthat answer?
So what?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
give me, give me the layman's, like I think this and
this.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Ok, so here's my understanding of why we do that.
I think we are surviving, Rightunderstanding of why we do that
.
I think we are surviving, right.
When we are surviving, we arenot thinking about how can we
preserve our culture andtradition.
We're thinking about how can Isurvive today, right, and even
coming to the US for Oromopeople, we're still surviving.
Does that make sense?
(12:13):
Even though, like, how do weget here?
War, this come.
Like, how did your parents endup in somalia?
That's true war, right, and sowe didn't come because we want
to be here.
We came because we didn't haveany other choices but to leave
that space.
So when we come, surviving, it'slike we, our generation, are
(12:34):
the one that having theconversation saying how can we
preserve our culture andtradition?
But our parents who are livingin this country or abroad in
Australia, canada, europe arenot thinking about how can we
preserve our culture, instead ofhow can we make bread, how can
we feed our kids, how can weprotect them out of dangers that
exist in reality?
(12:55):
And so, because of thatmechanism, the prevention of
culture, tradition, uh, that andall this stuff is not a
priority, and I think if to.
That's why this episode isreally necessary to have a
conversation around is that ourgeneration.
Let's not be complacent, right?
Let's not be so sucked intothis cultural western culture,
(13:17):
culture of like, surviving, butalso, how can we do
simultaneously a balanced way ofraising kids that are proud?
Oromo are in a different spacesas far as career choices or in
so many aspects of it.
So that's why, when I ask youguys that question of like, did
you and your spouse talk aboutit?
Do you guys have thoseconversation or is just
(13:39):
something automatically you guysare implementing?
And that's why I'm wonderingabout that.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, and I want to answer that question and then
also address the point of thesurvival apparatus.
Yes, me and my husband did talkabout it because, again, I
wanted to learn Ormfa.
One, because I wanted to connectwith his parents and, and
better, um, two, I wanted I feltlike that was an opportunity
(14:08):
for me to to kind of get myroots in my culture and roots in
my, because language is the thefastest way that you can get
acclimated to a culture.
So, um, that and then um and I,because of that we made sure
that was a thing and then alsowe knew that, like I, before we
(14:28):
got pregnant, we did a lot ofresearch about, like how kids
that have roots, strong culturalroots, strong cultural
backgrounds, that like, if youobviously religion is one thing
but culture is also, the moreI'm going to use that word again
the more strong anchors thatyou have, strong ground and you
(14:49):
know fundamentals that you have,the harder it is or the less
likely you are to float to getlost you know and to also have
someone else challenge um ormake you feel inferior, because
then your identity is not basedoff of your feelings and
emotions.
It's based off of so much whatallah says you are, what your
(15:11):
culture says you are, your.
Your do's and don'ts are basedoff of not what you feel like
doing and what you don't feellike doing, but it's also about
like what my culture allows,what my culture doesn't allow.
You know the traditions andthen also, obviously, your dean
right.
So because of that, we reallywere into about talking about
like and that's also how I got alot more involved in the Oromo
(15:34):
activism and obviously, you know, since 2016 till I think it was
like to 2020, there was a lotof like Oromo.
You know aero movements.
It was just so easy to be ableto be focused in the Oromo
culture.
So that's why the conversationstarted and then, that's how you
know we had that conversation.
But talking about that survivalapparatus just to give you
(15:56):
another answer too is that Oromopeople, I think for the last
hundred years, have been theOromo language, has not been,
unless you were in Oromia, likein the Redoa, or you know
Badeysa, or you were in Nageleor some place like that, badeysa
, or you were in Nagele or someplace like that.
(16:18):
If you went outside of Oromia,if you went like, or, you know,
if you wanted to go to thecities, the language that you
needed to know to be able tomake money was a different
language.
It's Amharic, if you.
So again, that survivalapparatus, the ability, and then
that creates an inferioritycomplex right.
(16:39):
That creates an inferioritycomplex right.
So for those people that spokeAmharic, it's kind of like
knowledge instead of languagePrivilege too.
Yeah, so you're more likely toget hired.
If you speak Amharic without anaccent, you're even easier to
get hired, and that's, besidesyour qualifications right.
(17:01):
And then when you come here,english is the language for you
to be able to make money Also aspecific kind of English, right
yeah, professional English.
The reason why I think ourculture, our Oromofa, our
Oromoma or Oromo people are morelikely to kind of get lost in
(17:25):
these spaces is because we havethis culture about community.
We have this culture aboutpushing our family and making
sure that our family does a lotbetter than us.
So our parents, they figured,figured, hey, my accent is
holding me back, my lack oflanguage is holding me back.
So I want to make sure that mykids don't have that problem,
(17:47):
right?
So they make sure that theypush us into more english
speaking you know spaces andthey try to speak to us in
english at home and all of thesethings.
Or, if it's back home, inAmharic and Amharic speaking
spaces.
That way, when you might be,like, completely sterilized from
your Oromo accent, you might becompletely sterilized from you
(18:09):
know your Oromo language in theattempt of you being not having
the same issues that they did.
Because, again, again, survival, like when you are in survival
mentality, like the habe said,you're not thinking about the
future and the you know, thepreservation of traditions and
so on and so forth.
Um so yeah, I think that's why.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Um yeah I think, yeah , so that brings a really good
point, because hearing you saythat you know about the survival
apparatus, um, I think aboutthe whole maslow's hierarchy you
know, like we're we're not evenpast the first two levels for
us to be, like, thinking abouthow to preserve our language,
(18:50):
you know, and all that stuff nowgoing on to you know, now that
we are here, we're in thiscountry, you know, I used to
think about the whole idea oflike a salad versus a melting
pot.
You know about what the US isand I've always wanted to for it
to be more like a salad.
You know that you have all ofthese different parts.
(19:12):
You know, and all these partsare visible and you can see them
in the bowl, but there's stillone whole thing, um, and I, I
wanted my identity, when I passit on to my kids, to be that way
.
You know, I want them to beAmerican, I want them to be
Oromo, I want them to be Muslim,um, you know, and how do we
cultivate that in a way where itsets up our kids for success?
(19:36):
you know, in careers and in justthe American society and also
having roots back home, becauseyou know that is.
I do want to go back home oneday, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I think a couple of things with that right there is,
traditionally, when you'reraising young kids, what are you
doing at home, I think, whenyou know culture-wise, like
bonnie was suggesting earlierlike we play music, do we read,
do we find autumnal books, do wefind um autumnal activities or
do we kind of have autumnalcelebration as community, do we
go to like each other housewhere kids are kind of like
(20:12):
autumnal and they're kind oflike probably talking about that
instead of um aspect?
So it starts from inside thehouse and what you and your
intention as a parent and thegoals that you have for your
kids, right.
So if you decided that you knowwhat I want my kids to go to
Ivy League college, for exampleright, then your focus is going
to be solely academic, right,you're going to go into like
(20:34):
100%.
They're going to do what is it?
Puma or something I'm trying toremember, some like mathematic
stem thing, that it's like a,it's like a tutoring things that
people do after school, likepuma, I don't know.
I don't know, anyway somebodywould know in the audience, but
anyway, like a lot of, forexample I'm not.
I'm not dreaming a lot of Daisykids, for example.
(20:58):
Right, daisy culture isacademic, is like all they think
about.
Daisy parent specificallybecause I grew up with a lot of
Daisy kids, it's like academicis number one thing.
So parents are like puttingtheir kids into this and this
and this and all this planningis kind of like setting them up
for their own academic successso they can attend Ivy League
(21:20):
college, because that is asuccess according to the parents
.
When it comes to, for example,our people, our Oromo people, to
encourage the identity,something similar as that needs
to be provided with the parentsand how, simultaneously, they
can kind of set their kids upfor success when it comes to
being proud of their identity,it's how do we talk about our
culture?
How excited are you about yourculture?
(21:42):
Like those messaging that isprovided inside the household is
what encouraged?
Like, how do we talk aboutother fields of career?
Right, do we kind of minimizethings?
I'm kind of jumping a lot ofstuff you guys can kind of
unpack specifically.
So it's like how do we talkabout anything in the household
so the kids can go to theseother spaces?
That is not like them.
(22:03):
They're able to find theirsense of grounding there.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I think storytelling really helps.
You know, with kids um mydaughter specifically like we do
story um, story time everynight and she kids at this age,
they're like so interested andso curious about everything, uh,
and so I would tell them, like,stories that my parents tell me
um about back home, uh, and andstuff like that.
(22:29):
And one thing I will say is that, like, as Oromos, we are not
one thing right.
We have so many differentcultures, so many.
We're not a homogeneous ethnicgroup.
And you know, if you put like,for example, if you put somebody
from Jimma or Harar or Arsi,they probably need translators
(22:52):
for each other.
You know, and I think sometimesthat's what.
What makes it hard is thatbecause we don't have like, yes,
we are Oromos, but we are, likeso vastly different that when
you see things online it mightconfuse somebody.
And you have people that arekind of gatekeeping warriors,
(23:15):
you know they're like, oh, thisis not Oromor, this is not
Oromor.
You know they're like, oh, thisis an automore, this is an
automore, you know, and stufflike that.
So it makes you, as a parent, Ifeel like have to navigate that
and find ways to get your kidsto understand that as well.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So basically kind of diversifying the automore
culture.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, there's different automores and there's
not one thing.
And you know, we have differentreligions, we have different
practices and you know how.
What like for a long timegrowing up, this is what I
struggled with is that, you know, sometimes I felt like there
was mainstream oromo, you knowthat was being pushed and like
and stuff like that.
(23:52):
And then there was me, right,and so it's like do I fit in
there, you know, and so it was.
It took a lot of soul searchingand a lot of doing a lot of
internal work to be like youknow who says this is Oromo and
this isn't Oromo, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
So yeah, I think I hear, I hear a lot of what
you're saying and, especially assomeone that kind of lived
outside of, like you know, Iguess in a way like bird's eye
view right, I had a veryperipheral vision or sight of
the Oromo community for most ofmy life.
(24:32):
One thing I know is that itreally is important to talk
about Oromoma as in somethingthat is just you are.
It's not something that youhave to prove, it's not about
the way you talk, it's not aboutthe way you practice certain
things.
You are, it's in your blood andthat way, it's not something
(24:56):
people can take away from you.
You are that class and that,because you are oromo and I am
oromo, there is a bond thereright, there's a community there
.
Yeah, that has to be somethingthat's extremely emphasized,
because and that's alsosomething that is very important
in my family is that, again, aswe were just excited to be
(25:18):
Oromo, because back in AddisAbaba we really didn't talk
about being Oromo- it was justyou're just Ethiopian, like
moving around, speaking Amharic,and then obviously my name is
very Oromo, all my names are,you know, it's very Oromo, like
my, my, my, you know my uncle,mosisa, mosisa.
(25:40):
It's very like, very, veryhorrible.
So, um, you, and then you havethat like I am it, regardless of
what I am capable of or howmuch I know, right, baseline,
base, foundation.
And then when you have thatrelation and you're like, okay,
because, because it's just likethe blood that runs in our blood
(26:01):
in our body, there there's awhite person that has a blood,
red blood, there's a blackperson that has a red blood,
there's a christian person,there's a muslim, right, so
you're not surprised by the factthat there's different otomo
people that have differentcultures, that have different
religions, that have differentidentities and whatever right.
Cultures that have differentreligions, that have different
identities and whatever right.
That, that kind of bringing itthat simple.
(26:23):
It is.
Uh, I feel like and I lovedthat conversation me and my
grandfather actually used tohave of, like he taught me my
great, great, great, great, likeit's like I could literally go
on and name my great, great,great great by their first name
and last name, and that givesyou roots, and I think I say all
(26:43):
of this to say that one.
We have to be able to go back tothat.
Go back to the source, go backto the fact that you are Oromo,
regardless.
That's what you need.
That's what you need to connectwith another Oromo person.
Stop asking if that person'sHararon.
It's great, you can have that.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Can I ask where do you feel like the
differentiation is coming from?
Within that differentiation,there is a sense of animosity,
there is a sense of resentment,there is a sense of the
hierarchy of I'm better than youkind of, too, I love that.
That's where we should be, andI'm noticing how that is not
where we are.
Does that make sense?
So, like, where do you feel thelevel of this differentiating?
(27:26):
Like you're rc, you're this,you're that, you're shasha money
, you're wallaka, you're hotter?
Like there is.
Why is that even necessary?
Because our sorry, I'm sorry,go that was it.
That's what I think is great totalk about what we want to be
versus like and also notaddressing where we are right we
are at that misplaced placeright now.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, the reason why I say that, what I was going to
jump in and say was that we arehuman, humans, love to
categorize and it's the, it'sour brain's way of finding the
easiest connection, the most themost comfortable place, right,
if you are Harar, I'm Harar, thechances are me and you have
(28:06):
more commonalities based off ofthe way we talk what's
appropriate, what's notappropriate, versus me and RC
person.
Right, and obviously me and anRC person have something more
common than a Somali person andI, and so we categorize and go,
go, go, go.
It's like a Russian doll sothat we can get to that person.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
That's the most comfortable, that we don't have
to code switch with all the time, right, but then with that,
just like all humans, comesjudgment, criticism, superiority
, complex, all of that thing,stereotypes, stereotypes, and we
other the other person, anddefinitely and stereotyped and
we other, the other person and,um, definitely, and I think the
(28:42):
hardest thing sorry to cut youoff, but hardest thing with
oromo is that even before, likewhen somebody speaks in oromo,
you can probably pick it upwhere they are from yeah yeah,
you know, and so I think,because you can do that, it's
really hard for you know, forthem, for everybody to be like
we're all oromo you know, let'swe are, we just have a different
dialogue.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Right, we are oromo, yeah, no, I'm saying to those
people yeah, yeah, and we have adifferent dialogue, we have
different and the culture isbeautiful.
I think our diversity is whatmakes us really nice, exactly
yeah and so to kind of addressthat, it's important to know the
the discomfort that comes upand how do we deal with that
(29:21):
right first before we get to theactual conversation, the things
that we wanted to address today.
So I wonder if you guys cantalk about a little bit of the
discomfort that arises, thatcreates the barriers to the
actual topic that we're havingtoday, even though we're kind of
starting a little bit um, thatdiscomfort, the things that
created with the animosity, theresentment, the I want to be the
(29:43):
only person to be in this space, kind of thing.
Right, that conversation.
I want you guys to expand onthat a little bit.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.
I think it starts at home.
Like with everything, it startsat home, you know, and I think
our parents do us such adisservice when they are
perpetuating these likestereotypes or you know,
so-and-so is like this RC,people are like this, people are
like this, you know.
And so when you hear thatgrowing up, um, and when you
(30:14):
have friends that are thosegroups or whatever, um, you kind
of, it's like you look for whatyou've been told.
You know what I mean and itreinforces what you've been told
at home.
So I think because of that,it's hard to break certain
things, but it's on us to gobeyond these and kind of build
(30:36):
those relationships.
And I think the biggest thingthat in our community that can
bring us all together is these,like community centers or
masjids.
Again, you know, and again thatis where our failure lies yeah,
you know how it's cause.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I think about like resource hoarding right when you
are told yeah, I literally thisthis, this example just kind of
came into my mind.
Yeah, during the 90s and the80s, um, there was only allowed
to be in the supermodel worldone black supermodel, right?
So, um, you know, the fashionshows, whatever, whatever they
(31:18):
will only have have one blacksupermodel and the minute
there's a better, bigger,beautiful supermodel, they kick
this one out and place this one.
So that created a resourcehoarding and that created
competition, not with the other,but between these two equally
beautiful, equally capable blackgirls, because they were all
(31:40):
fighting for one spot, or whatthey thought was that one spot.
Right?
So that, like, if you, if youlisten to a lot of like what's
called, like people, models,like supermodels, old models,
talk about like that competitionand how that was like it really
emotionally draining because,and even in the acting space,
right in hollywood, actresses,black actresses, while there was
(32:02):
like a hundred billion, um,white actresses that were
thriving right in competitionbut like healthy competition, uh
, black art actresses were toldthat there's only one spot for
you, right?
So there was, there was a lackof creating a union, there was a
lack of support, there was alack of this.
That's also the same thing withthe oromo and with, like, in a
(32:25):
bigger context, there's that'salso the same thing with the
oromo people, in the sense thatyou know, when the ethiopian,
the country was, you know,controlled by the empire,
emperor, or you know whatever.
All these amara integrate um,uh, leadership.
There has always been a pointto make sure that the only way
(32:48):
you can divide people is bymaking them one over.
Like you know, fight over eachother, right, fight each other
so they don't fight you.
That's what happened hereduring slavery.
Yeah, rwanda, divide andconquer, yeah, so I think
because of that.
And then you know that kind ofum, that kind of uh, that kind
(33:09):
of um, I guess, in a way,programming.
It takes a long time,conditioning, it takes a long
time to undo.
Yeah, right, so our parents arethe victims of that programming
and they might not be nowfighting over that one job.
And then that also kind of you,you stop separating it from why
(33:30):
, why you are doing because,like, again, I don't know if you
guys have heard about that micetheory you don't know why, why
you feel this way about thispeople, but you feel this way
about these people all of thesudden.
You know because you have thisbeen this thing that you've been
taught a long time ago?
But what you feel stays, notwhat you know, right, um?
(33:51):
So I think that's why everydifferent, every different tribe
has some sort of feeling abouteach other, and I like, for me
specifically, like growing up, Ihear a lot about, like, my
dad's war stories.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
You know, um, he was from a generation that did the
whole uprising, the Baliuprisings with my grandfather,
um, and things like that, and sowhen he tells us stories, it's
all it's.
It's like, you know, thesegroups of people were the ones
that sold us out.
You know, this tribe was theone that brought the you know
(34:28):
the enemy to your grandfather,and so when he tells a story, he
tells it with such emotionbecause he lived through that,
you know, and so, but what ourjob is to disassociate the
people back then that he wasdealing with and their
descendants you know, becauseyou can't hold the children
(34:51):
responsible for what theirfathers did.
The crimes of the parents, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And also even in that moment right, that again I
don't know what stories you'retalking about and who you're
talking about.
I'm just making a statement ingeneral, which is there even in
that moment there's a degree ofseparation between the tribe and
the people that did thosethings.
Right, it's not the whole tribe.
Again, I'm not invalidatingwhat your father was feeling.
(35:16):
I'm just saying that because ofthese stories that we keep
getting told, we don't have amoment as a community to kind of
just stop and say these peoplethat did these things might be
doing it for, you know, gainslike capital gains.
They might have been paid, theymight have been threatened,
they might have been whatever.
(35:37):
It might be an individual basisversus a tribal basis, right,
and it might just be.
Also these people might beextremely tribalistic and then
there might be um, you know thatalso could be.
But then we have to always tryto protect the tokuma aspect of
it, so kind of trying toindividualize it as much as we
can and like maybe even group,you know, keep it in the group
(36:00):
aspect.
But one thing I'll give uscredit for, alhamdulillah, is
that this new generation thatyou know either in diaspora is
very awake to that, more thaneven our generation.
It's much more awake to that,much more awake to being able to
be more involved, more vocal,more knowledgeable.
(36:22):
I mean, the University ofMinnesota is teaching an Oromo
language course, oromo studies.
Like that didn't come out ofnothing, that came because there
is a demand for it, I mean.
So I say all of this to saythat, yes, we are, one step at a
time, breaking away from thatlike tribalistic mentality.
(36:43):
Maybe we're doing it veryslowly, yeah, but I feel like
we're heading somewhere.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
So, basically, what I'm hearing from both of you is
that we also need to do a littlebit of hailing and
simultaneously continues tocreate space for one another and
acknowledging that history didhappen and some of the things
that we can learn from history.
How can we continue to do betterso that we can have a better
foster community that will bekind of collective instead of
(37:13):
kind of, you know, exiling oneanother, right?
So, and that is something thatwe're just trying to talk about
here in today's episode is kindof highlighting okay, this is
what the historical event is,this is our experiences, this is
our challenges and this iswhere we used to be and at in
some aspect of it today, too, isthat?
(37:33):
What are ways that we canimprove that as we move forward
and in a different aspect offields?
Right, this episode was kind ofmainly about talking about
Oromo.
Individuals are not in adifferent professional spaces.
Even if we are, we're not veryvisible, right, and the
visibility is like because we,especially the women, even the
(37:56):
men, they look like Somali, sosometimes it's like everybody
assumed they're Somali but,they're not saying, well, I'm
not Somali but I'm Oromo, likethey're not visibly kind of
saying.
and that's where theconversation about being proud
and finding the identity to beimportant in wherever career
choices that you're at.
So how do we cultivate that?
How do we kind of encourage ourlisteners or individuals that
(38:17):
in our life that, whatevercareer choices that you're in,
how do you make yourself visiblein that?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
space, I think, um reaching out, um and not being
afraid to be the first one tosay hello.
So at my work, um, I'verealized that there's a lot of
people that work with me and youknow, from cleaners to lab
people and stuff like that.
(38:43):
So now I've started to do thisthing where, if they look east
african, I'll talk to them innormal, I'll be'll be like hey,
come here.
And 99% they'll respond backand be like come here you know
what I mean.
So, and I didn't used to do that, and I think on a previous
episode I talked about how I hada nurse working with me who
(39:04):
like for a long time I thoughtshe was Oromo, but then we kept
like passing each other andwe'll just do like this nod
thing, you know.
And so finally I'm like hey,come, how are you?
And then she's like oh my God,this whole time I was thinking
you're Somali, and stuff likethat.
And so, yeah, we became friendsinstantly.
So yeah, that's one thing I'mchanging at work.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, I mean I think I believe in like building
coalition and so if you lookEast African, actually that's
not even true.
I start with black.
I like that If you're justblack.
I am high, my name, I mean Idon't discriminate, I say hi to
everybody, but in speaking, ofin speaking of you know,
(39:46):
building a community.
I start with like, if there'sanyone there that is black, I
community.
I start with like, if there'sanyone there that is black, I
will make sure to go out of myway to kind of introduce, even
if it's just in a, in a team'smeeting or something, and I see
a name or I see a person,whatever I hi, my name is that,
and then of course you can smellthe and have a stress right
like so are you talking?
(40:07):
about you could not?
No, I mean like you couldliterally look at us and tell we
are what we are.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
You don't know if it's like Amara, tigray or Omo,
but like you're able to tell, orSomali, you know they have
injera there.
You can smell the injera.
So I make sure, hey, how areyou If you're wearing hijab?
I say assalamualaikum hijab.
I say assalamu alaikum.
You know what's your deal, whoare you?
(40:33):
Yeah, and then kind of get intothat building a coalition in
that aspect.
And then the one thing I'mtrying to get better at is I.
Normally, when I get to thenormal aspect of it, fear starts
setting in.
Oh, yeah, right, why?
Because then now I want to knowwho you are, I.
I feel like it's a.
There's a big um again.
(40:55):
My history with the Minnesotaoral community is that it's I.
It comes from a space of a lotof judgment, right, uh.
So I want to know who you are,what's your deal, what's your
personality like and um, howclose are we gonna get?
you know what I mean how closeam I gonna let you get?
Um, you do that right away.
Yeah, no, I mean because thething, the truth of the matter
(41:19):
is right.
Um, I can say hi to a madhulperson and like be really cool,
like you know what I mean.
Case in point isn't that what?
Isn't that what they're calledIn that language?
There's a reason why I use thatlanguage.
I just don't know what it'scalled in Oromafa Gurracha, yeah
, so Gurracha, I, I, I.
(41:41):
If it means something bad, Iapologize.
I don't know, I don't speakthat language.
No, no, no, you said somethingcorrect.
But we use a different.
We didn't you didn't describeit in our language.
That's why she said case inpoint, because of that, well, I
don't count, because I barelyspeak.
That's true.
Be kind to her, she's gettingthere, okay.
So, uh, a gurrecha person.
(42:02):
It's like I can just be um chitchatty, like whatever, whatever
, and I'm leaving you at work,you're not following me to my
community.
A somali person, the same way.
A Habesha person, the same way.
The Ormo person.
There's a chance I might writeon to you at the wedding.
You might know my family, youmight know such and such.
So now I have to know, like,where is the line?
(42:23):
Who are you?
Are you that person that'sgoing to be?
Like, oh my God, can I getthere?
Then, if that's the case, boombye.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
You know what I mean.
You want to understand yourboundaries exactly.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I'll have to be a little bit more careful.
But that comes from the spaceof familiarity.
Right, I say all of this to sayall of we have to make sure
that we are building coalitionand then, when we get to the
space of like, going to work, Ido think again, like I want to
(42:57):
make sure I keep giving ourpeople credit.
There is this like Oromolanguage is known now, like
there's no one that like ingovernment or whatever that
doesn't know in healthcare,whatever that doesn't know what
an Oromo language is.
If you request an Oromotranslator, you will have an
Oromo Like.
That's great.
There's some sort of visibilitythere and I remember people
(43:18):
talking about like when peopleask you where are you from, say
I'm Oromo, and they will ask youwhere is that?
And say it's in Ethiopia.
Right, that is informationbuilding.
That is making sure people askquestions, answering those
questions and what do you mean?
Why did you say that and notjust Ethiopia?
And then you go in to explainwhy and all of these things.
(43:38):
But then, when it comes tovisibility and I'm sorry, I
don't mean to harp on this topic, but we have to also make sure
that we show up in surveys, weshow up in in um, when we are
being, you know, like surveys,how it works, surveys in the
community, when's what is um,censuses and all of these things
, because that's how we getfunding, that's how and also
(43:59):
when we network, making sure weput one thing I will say, I'll
say, I'll say over and overagain mashallah, our somali
brothers and sisters are reallygood about this, about Wallahi
they know something they know aplace that has something going
on.
They would be like I know you,you are really good at this, you
(44:20):
should.
I remember this girl.
I don't, she doesn't even knowmy name.
I was working, I was in college.
I was working at a hospital.
I was a registeringregistration person and she said
she came up to me she said hey,why are you working here?
And I was like I was like Ireally was taken aback.
I was like what do you mean?
Like, what do you, what do?
And she's like no, you should,like you should be a flood
(44:43):
because they make like this muchmoney more.
And I know you guys make thismuch and you they're so much
more over time.
And she was like literallytelling me all these things.
And well, she doesn't ask me.
And she's like here is my name,here is my phone number.
When you, when you decide toapply for the position, give
them me, give them my name as areferral or a reference.
(45:03):
And I was like that is so niceyeah you know she doesn't.
She didn't ask my name, shedidn't ask who I was, she didn't
ask whatever I was.
She just saw me and she justwanted to help and she knew she
had information that might behelpful to me.
They're so good about that I'm.
I've had a lot of, a lot ofsomali people that are just that
, have been able to like reachback and pull me up.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Very generous information where do you guys
think that comes from?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
where do you guys think that comes from?
There is again the.
The model example that bonnieprovided was like is similar to
that.
There's a lot of there'sinternal scarcity, right, um,
meaning that like I don't want I, if I give it to her, she's
going to take my spot, rightthat?
The psyche of that, like notthinking that my hug is my hug
and your hug is your hug, likesomali people don't think it as
(45:54):
like this is my only hug.
We're generalizing somali again.
Everybody's different.
Yeah, so it's.
It's more like everybody caneat whatever allah's gonna give
me, allah's gonna give me.
My risk is not going to beshortened because I've shows
here, right, if it's meant forme, it will be that.
But there's, there's a psychelike it's very deep in there.
(46:15):
Scarcity of that I think.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
I think this is.
This is super hyper, umpronounced when it comes to like
business and like businessdeals and you know and all that
stuff, and navigating the spacefor myself now, um's, I'm trying
to exercise this muscle alittle bit.
And you know, just the other daythere was um cause I do you
(46:37):
know like I manage a business onthe side with my husband and
there the MDH was giving away,you know, surplus supplies and
stuff like that.
So I made it a point to gothrough all my contact and like
be like this is what's going on.
You know, come and get this,apply for it, get this apply for
it, blah, blah and stuff likethat.
And honestly, it's a musclethat you have to exercise for it
to get better, because I don'tknow when it started, but we we
(47:00):
do have this like tunnel visionof like you know, if I'm at this
place, then you know I thereshould be only me and I, you
know, I also want to just addmaybe it's not just that, maybe
it's not just that, maybe it'snot even that and it could be.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
I just want to give a different perspective because
it just came to me when I waslistening to it all it could be
a lot of things.
I just want to get somethingelse.
There's a lot of lisi in ourcommunity like oh you don't.
Don't talk about.
Don't talk about what you do.
Don't talk about how much moneyyou make.
Don't talk about how you gotsomewhere.
Don't talk about what you do.
Don't talk about how much moneyyou make.
Don't talk about how you gotsomewhere.
Don't because it's in the fearof the evil eye yeah, yeah, and
(47:37):
also it's seen asbraggadociousness, right, if you
, I know people that can't sitfive minutes with someone else
talking about themselves, aboutwhat, how, how, like life has
turned into, and and that's notin a negative way of they're
wishing bad on them or anythingit makes them uncomfortable
(47:59):
because they think they'rebragging.
There's a lot of people thatare doing epic things.
You wouldn't know about thembecause you don't see them.
They like to work in quiet.
There's a whole culture of putyour head down and work and let
your work talk for itself right,there's more than that.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
I mean it could be.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I'm just saying there's that part to it and one
thing I'm gonna I'm gonna saytoo, is that when, when, in that
space Ahon, for example, um,and it's not just us, I think
Ethiopian Habesham people have alot of that.
There's this supervisor that Ijust met a couple of weeks ago.
She's Ertrid, and I've knownher for two years.
(48:41):
I didn't know she was asupervisor.
I literally didn't know she wasa supervisor.
She's like top dog.
She works with the medicaldirector of Minnesota Department
of Human Services and like allof these things, and I don't
know she's just like, and it'slike humbleness.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
But I think there's a level of hasadumma there too.
I mean, there is.
You want to be the only onethere in the realm of career or
having a business or whatever itis.
There's a level of hasidumathat I don't want to open the
door for somebody else.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Point blank period and that comes from insecurity
of.
Maybe I don't even want you toknow how much I make, because if
you, again I might be justgiving people a lot of benefit
of the doubt right after I saidI'm stopping to give the people
benefits and doubts.
But I think there's also a lotof like secrecy about how much
people make, right.
So there's like, oh, if youhave the same job as I do, you
(49:42):
will know how much I make andyou will know my financial story
, right.
And then there's that aspect,there's that level of detachment
there.
I also think that there is thereality of sometimes we the same
(50:02):
fear that I have, right, like,if this person comes into my
work profession, are they goingto take my you know, are they
going to take it out into thecommunity?
And they're going have thatconversation.
You know, whoever I am into,that there's a lot of um,
insecurity, insecurity.
There's a lot of moving withmoving through insecurity in our
(50:23):
community.
I think.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I think that's why, um, us having this conversation
is really like it's important,because I one of the most
important thing is like how weare.
We have limitation in adifferent aspect of career
choices too, as in as well asnot bringing each other up in
every directions, right, butthere's also limitation.
Um, for me, I really wishthere's more or more artists
(50:48):
right, like a painter or aphotographer or a documentary
writer or a music writer orvideographer.
That is, professionally, theygo to degree and they sustain
and they do this passionatelyand like that diversified career
choice.
(51:08):
I'm really passionate about itbecause obviously I'm a
therapist and I love when I cansee talent in people.
But I'm trying to like, well,you're so good.
Yes, I told Bonnie once I saidyou'll be so great as a
administration MBA,administration in a corporate
setting.
But the thing is that becauseof her skills, her diverse
(51:31):
skills, will provide so muchsupport.
Not only that, it brings peoplealong, it also can execute her
job.
So there's like balance of herRight.
I think.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
I think, bonnie, you do this really well, right, like
you, whenever she sees a jobpost, she's like OK, do this
sees a job post, she's like okay, do this exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
you know.
But I think if there is thislevel of insecurity and and
thinking like there's, there'sless and I don't want people to
take my spot, I want this is metalking to somebody out there
listening to this episode.
Take a moment and ask yourselfwhy you do that right, why do
you feel like your risk is notprovided, and how do we kind of
work on that to reduce thatfeeling?
(52:14):
I know sometimes I have it too,because I think the best way to
kind of make connection toother people within the audience
is to be honest about how youalso struggle with that.
I used to think that.
I used to think that you knowwhat.
I want to be in a specificplace and I want to be the only
known person.
But because in my field there'snot a lot of me, right, I'm the
only one there and sometimesI'm starting to see more right,
(52:37):
and even in grad school there'sonly me.
They're either I'm the blackperson, the Oromo person and the
Muslim person.
Right, I'm in that space, I'mthe only person, and I realized
how lonely that is, because Iwant to talk about certain
things with people in our space.
I want to talk about thestruggles and the concepts.
Sometimes somebody says, likewhy?
(52:58):
Like the microaggression thathappens, the barriers that
happen?
I want to talk to somebody thatlooks like me so we can try to
break through it together.
But if I'm the only one dealingwith that, I feel like at that
moment I'm the only one who hasthis problem.
It doesn't really kind ofextend to everybody else right.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Do you think that when you wanted to be the only
one in your specific field, orwhatever you're in, it gave you
like a sense of accomplishment?
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yes, then that goes back to psyche right Now.
If you are the only one, didyou feel that way about yourself
as a child, like is this yourway of like getting attention
from your parents, right, right,like.
I think about it from thatperspective, Like if you're the
only one, everybody's praisingyou and you did not get that
(53:47):
praise as a child, like you'refilling a void.
You're filling that void.
For me it's like that, and Idon't know about everybody else
who feels that way.
For me it was like that becauseI'm the middle child and I feel
like I'm kind of always in thebackground of everybody's life.
I'm not the center of theirattentions.
So you're always like achieving,achieving, achieving, yes, I'm
achieving.
To do that because now I'mrealizing at this stage of my
(54:09):
life, like no right, no, it'snot that I need more people
around me, I need community, Ineed collectiveness.
I don't want just being me, Iwant other therapists, I want
other psychologists, I wantother doctors who's doing
similar things, so we can talkabout the actual commonality and
how to make this professionmuch more accessible to
(54:29):
everybody else.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
And I think when you guard your post like that, you
can't bring somebody up, no, andyou won't go up yourself.
You don't because there'sanimosity.
So then everybody's juststagnant.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Exactly that animosity that there I literally
work through that and to knowthat that's not.
And that helps with religion,because Allah helped that.
Because when you understandAllah is a Razak, you know your
risk comes from Him.
Why do you have to worry aboutother people taking your spot?
Don't worry about that.
Exactly, it's about who can Ibring me along.
So talk about that experiencefor you guys.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
I want to just add a little bit about the
diversification of careers.
I think one thing as acommunity that we have to be
really good at is making surethat we have people in different
places of power, differentplaces of employment, different
careers, because, if you noticeagain I love to use the Somali
(55:23):
community as an example there'sa lot like you will find a
Somali person anywhere ingovernment, in police, in
hospitals and in education.
Film and film in music, yeah,but we, I need each other out of
opportunity, like we shame eachother out of opportunity or we
discourage each other out ofopportunity we push our
(55:44):
insecurity on one another.
We are really good at aprojection and sometimes we
don't know what we don't know.
Right and again, not just thepulling app aspect of it, but
the opening doors aspect of it.
Right, making sure that peoplethe when you.
Again, what I was going to sayearlier was that when you don't
tell people what you've done,it's like it has never been done
(56:06):
before it has not been done.
So that's actually mysupervisor told me.
She said if you want people toknow that you are valuable, make
sure you shout about your work.
Make sure you shout about thework that you're doing.
That doesn't mean you'rebraggadocious.
It means that you are lettingthem know this work wouldn't
have gotten done if I didn't doit.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
How would they recognize you?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
Exactly so when we say, hey, I am in this space,
right, I am in this space, right, I am in this space and I'm
doing well.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
People would be like what is this space Curiosity?
Yeah, If you can do it, I cando it.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
If you can do it, I can do it.
And just being like there's areason why there's a lot of
nurses automobile nurses,there's a reason why there's a
lot of RTs, right, because theysaw somebody be able to do it
and they were like, oh okay,this person looks like me, this
person acts like me, this personhas I can do it too.
Yeah, we have to.
And then that creates alsoprotection, like I said, being
involved in census, beinginvolved in surveys, being able
(57:00):
to get you know scholarships andfunding, and like I I told you
guys, I went to this classconference that was literally
being given 25 000 for000 fordifferent community
organizations, and there waseveryone there and there was
there was a section that saidOromo and nay, because the
results are not out there.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
There is not out there.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Yeah, and like it was Oromo and Karen, the language,
karen, like and nay.
And I was like are you kiddingme?
So they went looking for us,but we didn't respond.
Right so we missed out.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
We don't even know where there's resources.
That's another thing right.
Because nobody shares, like yousaid, nobody talks about it,
nobody have the conversationabout it, because it was so kind
of like I should only use fixedmindset, and that level is like
how do we get out of that?
Speaker 3 (57:47):
limitation, yeah, and get out of that survival
mentality or like that you know,survival of the fittest, like
we're at some point.
It's not just about the amountof money you're making, but, yes
, there is money that to be madein a lot of different spheres
that we don't know about.
But it's also about making surethat, thinking of the community
.
What does the community need?
(58:07):
The community needs protectionand government.
The community needs educators.
The community needs lobbyists.
The community needs protectionand government.
The community needs educators,the community lobbyists.
The community needs books,music, art.
Right, that's the only way youcan push your culture forward.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, the last thing I would want to add to that is
that if there are people who aretrying new careers, new
professions, and you see themfail, it doesn't mean that you
will fail too yeah or it's not.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
it doesn't mean time for you to laugh at them and
kick them when they're down,because we're really good at
that and that was not a failureeither.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
Just because they tried and they didn't actually
complete, it doesn't mean thatit's not a failure.
Speaker 3 (58:44):
They figured out one more way not to do it.
Speaker 1 (58:47):
So I think we do a lot of sitting on the sidelines
and waiting, being like youfigure it out, now jump in.
Yeah, so growing up in college,I did Amway, as you know, so
the hardest thing is that when,when I was talking to Ramos,
it's like you do it, you becomea millionaire and then I'll join
(59:09):
.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and Ithink that was.
We don't know how to take risk.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
We are so risk averse so risk averse.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
And then finally, like when you are, when you're
constantly told that you justwere like you know what?
I'm not even going to mess withyou guys anymore and also
supporting our community.
Speaker 3 (59:28):
Yeah, supporting, supporting our community.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
Supporting the people that are doing something, when
someone we are more than happy,like supporting this Beyonce and
whatever like little John andlittle Jim, whatever who they
are.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
But then an automobile person does something
.
You know that's a little bit uh, you know a little bit
different, like that girl thatdid a whole gallery right, like
showing up there and seeing Iwas so happy to see her parents
be so proud of her.
Like work Cause you don't seethat normally.
You know, just being able tolike invest, not just with our
voices but also with our money,with our capital, with, my God,
(01:00:00):
automobile people.
Do you know that they are sostingy with their likes and
their comments and their reviewsand their shares?
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
It's a fixed mindset.
It's a fixed mindset.
It's the resentment.
I love you guys, so you lovethe automobile people, right?
Yes, she loves you guys, andthat's actually.
I want to bring it back to acouple of things that I want to
wrap up our show today with isthat the biggest thing is that
support one another, right, andthat means include this podcast
(01:00:29):
and kind of subscribe and shareand listen to it and give us
feedback as well.
But before we do that, I wantus to kind of provide some
action takeaway and things likethat, so that way that we can
kind of give suggestion how wecan open the gate of providing
more ways to have thisconversation.
Go ahead, abani.
Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Yes, thank you.
Oh, my God, in five minutes.
No, I just was thinking aboutthe conversations that we were
having about building communityand building community resources
, like making sure we utilizethe community resources that we
have.
Oswana, do better, be better.
Make sure that you're not justcreating spaces.
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Slow down, slow down.
Okay, you're okay.
Take a deep breath, deep breath.
Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
They need to hear it.
Okay, deep breath, osvana.
I feel like there's a lot moreto do than just leisure
activities, as parties that areuseless and like soccer awesome,
but parties useless.
Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
You could invest in you know, more you know.
Make sure you even use yoursocial media platforms to do
more community work, you knowand create networking
opportunities.
Maybe we should collaboratewith them and join some of the
things that they allow us.
Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Yeah and also not even just ask other people.
Anyone that wants to do it,invite people to your table or
OSU all these communities thathave platforms that have
followers.
Do something with that, outsideof just shaking your what's
called shoulders and dancing tothe music.
We should be purpose-oriented.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
The Oromo Community Center.
We have a lot more to offer.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Yeah, the Oromo.
Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Community Center that's sitting there blank 90%
of the time, that literallypeople use it for rehearsal
space.
We should be investing into itto create debate centers, youth
centers, whatever it is, so thatwe can do something
constructive instead of justleisure activities, you know,
inviting counselors that arethat are going to be able to do
(01:02:26):
um pro bono work there you know,for all workshop, mental health
workshops there, careernetworking spaces, education,
education centers yeah, putmoney into the community.
Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Y'all put time and effort outside of dance
activities, yeah okay, lastthing, as an actionable item, I
would say uh, try one new thingand bring an aroma person with
you absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I with you, absolutely.
I'll end it there and I thinkthat's the best suggestion.
Thank you both and I do want tokind of encourage the you know
the communities to get involved.
Parents, please continue tohave conversation with your kids
.
Don't be afraid to take risk.
It's important at home, evenoutside of the community, and do
(01:03:12):
not like allow your kids to beafraid going out there and if
they're trying something new,allow them to experiment that
with you within on under yoursupervision, obviously, um.
So we want to appreciate ourlisteners and my co-host.
Thank you so much forincredible conversation in depth
of ways to grow our communityand collectively kind of see
each other and understand eachother and support one another
(01:03:34):
With that difficultconversations.
Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Thank you, y'all.
Okay, bye.
Join the conversation in thecomment section or on our
Instagram page to share with uswhat you think.
We do not have all the answersand our biggest goal is to kick
off and get the conversationgoing.
May Allah accept our effortsand use us as catalysts for
change.
Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
MBC All relation to MBC.
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