April 22, 2024 • 37 mins
Navigating the ebbs and flows of romance can be enough of a challenge, but throw money into the mix, and you've got yourself a complex dance that many of us find ourselves tripping over.
Join us as we traverse the emotional landscape of money management, where tales of self-indulgence, financial guilt, and the fear of a dwindling bank balance become points of connection rather than contention.
Whether you're single, dating, or married, this episode provides a treasure trove of wisdom and practical advice, aiming to empower listeners with the tools needed for financial literacy and communication. So tune in for a discussion that promises to enrich not just your wallet but your heart and your connections with those who matter most.
Visit our IG page at https://www.instagram.com/dc_overcoffee/ to join the conversation!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult
Conversations where we tackletaboo topics in a safe space
through empowerment andeducation.
The information on this podcastis for informational purposes
only and should not beconsidered professional mental
health advice.
Today we are talking aboutmoney, money, money and
(00:23):
relationships.
So I I'm really excited aboutthis topic because I feel like,
um, my husband and I are likemoney languages are on opposite,
so like I hadn't had him sitdown and take a money language
assessment, because I guessnowadays like there's a language
(00:45):
about everything.
But so I was like on this side,a believer where, like we kind
of hope and wish that we haveenough money for everything, and
he was on the opposite end oflike planning and really wanting
to make sure things are paidfor and only paying for things
(01:09):
in cash and being able to affordit and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So I think we I wanted to kind of go back a
little bit of like kind ofgiving the audience introduction
around financial literacy andwhat it means, and what does
that look like for all of us?
And whether you're single,whether you're married, whether
individually, just kind offinancial planning, what does
that look like for you?
(01:32):
I think, growing up, a lot ofus are not really thought to
what needs to happen with money,because for us is money has
attached to survival and beingable to kind of spend what we
have, not to kind of even planahead like rainy day or
emergency day or somebodygetting sick day, or, and if
(01:56):
there's some sort of a crisishappen, what do we do?
And so I feel like thisconversation that today we're
having is like intro to a lot offinancial traumas that a lot of
us experience because we don'tknow what needs to happen.
And there are people who arehoarder, there are people who
are overspender.
That's the two extents that youmeet in our community in
(02:19):
general, whether it's Muslimcommunity, immigrant community.
Overall the people who hoardthe money is like we're going to
have to hold on tight becausewe don't want to be poor again.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Like the Hame says, everything comes from a trauma
response.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes, everything comes from it.
And then there are people whoare like I don't know if I'm
going to see another day, so I'mgoing to enjoy my life to the
fullest and spend what I have,and there's no need for me to
plan, and that includes withkids, with future for the kids
and for themselves as a coupletoo.
And so I'm wondering for bothof you who are married, what was
(02:52):
that conversation like?
Like Apshita, you kind oftalked about that a little bit,
with you and your husbandtalking about financial literacy
, financial planning prior togetting married, or is that
something that you guys didafter you got married?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
oh no, it's after okay planning, um it's after.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
But we did talk about like, how much money do you
have and how much money, howmuch debt do you have and and
how, what like your spendinghabit, what are your goals?
How do you process money, howdo you feel about money, like
that kind of thing.
But not planning.
I think for us, the thing umthe habit you mentioned when you
(03:32):
said you know, with culturallylike we don't have enough not
most of us, at least we don'thave enough money to it's like
money is a like.
It's is like savings is aluxury right.
Savings is a luxury.
Planning for a rainy day is aluxury because most of the time,
especially back home, you getmonthly checks right.
(03:53):
Like the husband or wife, theybring monthly checks home and
then that monthly check is likea rationed throughout the month.
So the kids have to be fed, thekids have to go to school, they
get to, you know, like all ofthese things, and then you pay
for your rent and and then bythe, by the 30th, you're itching
yeah waiting for that paycheckto hit rainy day is is a luxury
(04:18):
back there.
So that from that aspect comestwo different people, like I'm
sure you mentioned also thehoarders and this, you know, the
spenders.
The spenders spent because theynever got a chance to spend
right like they never like, oh,when I was a kid, so and so had
the best shoes and so and so hadthe best you know games and so
on and so forth the best house.
So now that I have money, Iwant, I want those things that I
(04:40):
never had when I was a kid.
And then the other ones arelike, oh, because my parents
didn't have money and they werestruggling a lot, I want to make
sure I never have to feel thatway, that I will have it even
though I'm not going to spend it, but if I want to spend it I
will have it.
So both of those are liketrauma responses from not having
(05:01):
money For me and my husband.
I also grew up in a relativelypaycheck to paycheck household.
You know, I don't think we, myparents, would have been okay,
like if they, you know, theirpaycheck got cut at some point.
So for me, I.
(05:22):
But then the good thing aboutmy family, my parents also is
that they were very honest aboutour financial situation, so
they'd never like shielded us orwhatever.
Whatever.
They were very like hey, youknow, this is how much we get
and this is how much the thingsthat we can afford, this, we can
afford this.
And they were my, my momspecifically.
(05:43):
She was very much, um, likenever made me feel like we don't
have, like we don't have it.
But then, instead of this, getthis anyway like it's the same
thing, not like, oh, you can'thave it, it's the most like you.
If you have it, you will die.
Like someone will like not havefood, right?
You know like instead ofspending 10, 10 bit, like let's
(06:05):
spend five bit on this, or youknow we can't go out all the
time, but like let's go out likeon fridays.
You know, that way I never feltthat need to like want to spend
all the time or the need tolike hoard everything so I live
in that from two incomehousehold, then yes, yes.
Yeah, so and my and my dad hewas a spender Like he, he's the
(06:29):
my mom was the financial brainin our family.
She was the, you know she mydad came and gave the paycheck
to my mom.
She was like, spend it, likeyou know, do something with the
household, so, but she alwayskind of designated like Fridays
(06:49):
we would go out for juice, likeafter work, after school and
after work and stuff like that.
So, or like we, once a monthwe'd go to like Mercato and like
buy clothes or something or eatActually, that's not true, not
clothes, we'll go to Mercato andbuy something small during
either Ramadan and likebirthdays, we will get brand new
clothes and shoes, you know.
So you never felt like without.
And then within our, withinyour community, you everybody's
doing the same thing, right, soyou're fine, so you don't.
(07:12):
I didn't grow up with that like, oh, I have to hoard or I have
to save.
I just was like, if I have it,I will do what's reasonable with
it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, so you know the mediums yeah, growing up, my
mom was the financialbreadwinner in the family and so
I, like I grew up with herworking and and she always tried
her best to provide for us.
Like you know, if anybody allthe other kids will have phones
or whatever she tried her best,you know, to give us as well.
(07:42):
So then, after we got married,I think I made it a point to
have that conversation aboutfinances early on, because they,
you know, they say thatfinancial problems are probably
one of the leading causes ofarguments in a relationship and
you know when you're not.
It's a big stressor, you know,especially when you're not on
the same page, especially whenyou're not on the same page and
(08:04):
when you are talking to somebodyand he or she has put up a
front about either having a lotof money or not having a lot of
money, and then, after themarriage, the reality hits.
So my husband and I have beenreally good about talking every
situation out, talking purchasesand kind of saying, okay, what
(08:27):
do we, we have, what can weafford?
Um, and stuff like that.
And me personally, I've alwaysbeen like I would rather like
spending on other people.
I have no issues with right,like my kids and buying stuff,
um, but for some reason likebuying something for me if it's
like really, really expensive.
I kind of like a hub, you knowyou really don't need that yeah
(08:49):
you really don't need that, orlike you know it's too expensive
or whatever.
So I'm really trying to get itget out of that headspace of
like if I want it, then just buyit.
You know, yeah, especially ifyou like, if I have the means
and I have the money, um.
So I'm I'm like I worked a loton trying to not have that
remorse.
You know, you go to the store,you buy a really nice perfume
(09:12):
and then you go home it's like,oh, did you really need that?
Or whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So so for me, I grow up same as bonnie.
I had two parents, um who theyare, two income, but my mom
worked a lot harder than I wouldsay, my dad.
My dad will give what is inOromo Domoza, you know, like
rent, monthly income, likesalary.
He'll give, but sometimes, likeit's not enough and my mom want
(09:37):
to splash a little bit and domore, like let's say for example
what is that?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
again Domoza Is that the same of like that is is
Amharic word, but I don't knowit in normal.
Is that the same thing as likethe Islamic concept of nafqa,
where like no, it's just salary?
Damuz means salary, I know, butI'm saying, like the guy pays,
it's like the work the husbandgives the guy, the husband pays
the wife.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Right the monthly I hear to take care of the it's
the concept of nafqa, exactlyOkay.
So my dad would do that and mymom, like she, likes to do more.
Like, let's say, for examplethis is an example about like
meat, right, meats are veryexpensive regardless of what
country you live in.
And if my dad gave, like, let'ssay, $100 for the lunch and
(10:17):
dinner meals, for the ration orgrocery, Is that a monthly
payment?
she gets that's not monthly.
But then Is that a monthlypayment?
She gets that's not monthly,but then he gives her a specific
amount monthly and that's I sayhe doesn't do monthly, he do
daily.
So because he's like he dodaily for breakfast, lunch and
dinner and whatever extra things, I need to be by for that day,
and so if my mom wants to buysomething extra, she doesn't go
(10:41):
ask my dad.
Instead she used her own moneybecause she also works.
And so for me I grew up in thatenvironment of two people
working and financial literacyis not really something that
discussed it's more like youhave to have money and you can't
(11:01):
really rely on like kind oftake care of myself as the my
only financial person who does.
It is that I had to learn theunlearn a lot of financial
traumas that I was raised around, based on the environment that
I was in, because I come from asmall town, awadai, which means
that there's not a lot of like.
It's more like a daily thing,like the same way my dad does it
(11:23):
, then monthly thing.
So for me, I have to unlearnthose things like oh's more like
a daily thing, like the sameway my dad does it, than monthly
thing.
So for me, I have to unlearnthose things like oh, what are
the things that I'm still doingtoday?
That is similar to my household, and so I think one of the
things that I did which we'regoing to go into is that I kind
of learned, did a lot of likeYouTube learning and reading
books and like learning aboutrainy day, emergency money,
(11:48):
vacation money, saving money andthen investment money.
How do you invest your money?
Do you invest your money instocks?
I didn't know anything aboutstocks until COVID and so I
started learning about savingand doing stock investment in
COVID and like not doing a lotof extensive money.
That is that, as someone who'snow has that understanding of
(12:11):
like there is other way ofinvesting and saving for your
rainy days and things like that,is that the idea of one of the
things that is really fearorientated for me is just going
negative in my account.
Fear orientated for me is justgoing negative in my account,
like going checking out mychecking accounts.
You know, seeing a negativethat's like a heart attack and a
stroke and aneurysm at the sametime happening.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Have you, have you ever had one of those months
like for me?
This used to happen, like incollege, where I avoid my bank
account.
Looking at my bank account,like for a week, because I know
either it's like low account isgonna make me sad.
I just don't spend and I justdon't look at it.
I'm just like until my paycheckcomes.
I'm just not gonna look at ityeah, and if I and I read that
(12:55):
actually people that don't havelike that are very tight in
their in their budget or they'revery tight in their um income.
They don't look at theirspending.
No, they look at their spendingleast and they look at their
bank account, the least amountversus people that have a lot of
money in their bank account.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
They look and check more yeah, which is kind of
opposite I feel like if you havea lot of money, you would just
like rah it out, yeah, no and Ithink also you know the guilt's
conscious, though right it'slike it's also anxiety inducing,
like if you look at it and youknow what you don't have, you're
gonna constantly in that spaceof uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But that's the thing with, like cash versus a card,
right like if when I have cash,I know exactly what I'm spending
it on and then, but when I'myou just using the credit card,
it's like it's out of mind, outof sight, you know, and you just
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I feel like I am one of those people that's like, if
it's cash, it's not money yeah,it's a girl.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Math, yeah, and I, I thought I the weird one.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
But then I saw it in those girls math TikToks videos
that I'm not the only one Likeif I have cash, if I find like
$50 in my purse, that money doesnot count, you just got paid.
I just got paid if I have.
That's why I call it I'm richlike wallahi, like I'm like, oh,
I can go get some sushi, like,yeah, I don't count that as a
spending, yeah.
(14:26):
But one thing I also realizedis that, um, when we were having
this conversation, when I wastalking about myself and so on
and so forth, is that, um, theconcept of money and how money
relates to you and how moneymakes you feel, is the trauma
part right?
And for me, I was told from avery young age and I think this
is probably the only episodewhere maybe I am a little bit
(14:49):
healthier than all of you guyswhat Are you bragging?
No, I'm just saying likenormally I'm the one that that's
like I'm the most traumatic ortraumatized or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
But I don't have any trauma.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
That's what I just said.
I'm the one normally.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Good Anyway so what I'm, what I'm, what I was trying
to say was that normally whenpeople have and I kind of have
learned this through now my, myaunts and so on and so forth is
that I grew up in the idea of,like our house, our income, it
doesn't matter what yourneighbor has.
It does not matter what yourneighbor is doing or what you
(15:26):
know, whatever your environmentis doing.
So if you have $10 on youraccount and you know you can
only spend $9 of that becausethe $1 for your rent or whatever
.
I'm just you know you can onlyspend nine dollars of that
because the one dollar is foryour rent or whatever.
I'm just you know, simplifyingit and that your, your neighbor
is have is working with twentydollars, you don't, you don't
look down and you don't look up.
(15:55):
Or if your neighbor has fivedollars and they're, you know if
you are making $100, make sureyou give yourself $1 to spend on
yourself the way you want to.
That kind of alleviates theguilt aspect of it.
So like if I'm spend and thenlike when I was in high school
and I used to work and after andI used to like and then also
(16:16):
attach money with reward andafter and I used to like and
then also attach money withreward, so like, instead of
spending money uh for like, if Iwant a purse that's like really
a little bit expensive, I wouldattach it to a goal so I'm like
okay, inshallah, like if, whenI was in high school, I would
say okay, when I get, like, if Iget a straight ace this
semester, then I'll get myselfthis thing.
When, when you're older, you sayokay, if I saved this much, or
(16:39):
if I, you know, worked this much, or if I, whatever, I stuck to
this goal of reading this manybooks, or whatever, then I'll
get myself this thing.
That way it alleviates theguilt of it yeah, and you take
it out of that one percent ofthe income that you're getting.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
yeah, um, anyway, that was just I think that's a
really good plan, a way to goabout it, and I think that is a
really good, healthy way thatyou know you're learned by the
environment that you're in and Ithink that is something that to
change the perspective ofreframing the aspect of your
(17:14):
relationship with money.
And I think but we also have tounderstand that for people who
have not even though that soundsreally good, and to apply it
unless they excessively workedon that and tried to unlearn the
behavior that prior to came toit, it makes it so hard because
the same thing that we weresaying earlier is like, if I
(17:37):
know I don't have money, I'm notgoing to look at my account
right.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So then let's go back to, I guess, what we started
with, uh, the beginning of theepisode, in terms of like when,
when you come, you know, comeinto a union with another person
, how do these, how do theselike languages or ways of
dealing with money come up?
And when conflicts happen iswhen you have completely
(18:01):
different views, right when youknow you or your husband or one
of them, one of you guys wantsto save more, or one of you guys
, you know, wants to spend more.
How do you deal with thatsituation and how do you avoid
that crisis?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I think, think, when it comes to money you have to
have first of all for those thatare not already in a union, I
would say you have to have thatconversation clearly, with no
sugarcoating, before you getinto marriage, not just about
what's your debt, what's this,what's that, but how do you
relate to money?
(18:35):
How does money make you feel?
Is it important for you to havemoney?
Is it important for you to looklike you have money and not?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
just asking, but like I feel like putting scenarios
out there, you know what I mean.
Like I feel like sometimes whenyou're talking to somebody,
they can tell you anything.
Right, they can tell you, oh,you know, whatever, until you
see it, until you, until you seeit, you know, and I think you
know setting up scenarios or youknow asking questions in a way
(19:06):
where, like you can really seewhat their relationship is with
money is I feel like a lot morehelpful definitely.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
and then also talking about your end goal, right,
like, what does your rich lifelook like?
I was actually.
I don't know if you guys havebeen watching, if you guys have
seen this Netflix show it talksabout.
It's a show called your RichLife, I think I don't remember
and he talks about what doesyour rich life look like If you
were rich?
What does that mean?
(19:34):
How does how do you perceivebeing rich If you were rich?
What does that mean?
How do you perceive being rich?
Does that mean a white picketfence, a house and, like you
know, like nine to five job andlike having a good retirement
account?
Is that your rich life?
Are you imagining a yacht and aboat and whatever that
extravagancy is?
What does your rich life looklike?
How do you plan on gettingthere Right?
(19:56):
Rich life look like, um, how doyou plan on getting there right
?
And having that conversation oflike okay, where, because some
people they don't have ever,they don't ever want to like,
they don't care about being rich, they care about being stable,
they care about being, um, whatis it?
What do you call it?
Like?
Security, secure, yeah, theycare about being secure and
stable, right?
So?
And if that if you're marryingsomeone that's ambitious and
(20:18):
that's just want to go get itand like, or you know, some
people are not really ambitious,but they want to look ambitious
they want to look rich, theywant to.
They want the newest house, theywant the newest car.
When they're buying it with acredit card, that's 29 percent
you know, apr.
So, like you just have to havethat real, honest and sometimes
open up the book in marriage.
(20:38):
While you are married, youcan't be oblivious to the
spending habits of each other.
I don't believe in secrecy andanything but this one is like a
no-go.
You have to be able to talkabout money openly and I don't
think regardless.
I consider myself a veryindependent person.
I'm.
You know, I make money from thehousehold too, just like my
(21:02):
husband does.
But when we come to the table,I'm like, even if I'm trying to
buy from Amazon, you know, fromfrom my $200 of, let's say, my
budget of the month, right, like, I can do whatever I want and I
, if I, if it's gonna step five,five dollars off of that budget
that I have allocated formyself, we know, for whatever, I
(21:24):
have to consult with my husband.
That's not asking for hispermission, that's working
together, because I don't knowif that five dollars is gonna
skew something somewhere, right,so we have to sit down and have
a conversation about it and belike, hey, I'm planning on
spending this much outside of mybudget.
Or, you know, I have this extrabudget from my $200 that I
(21:44):
didn't spend.
Where do you think we shouldput it?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So I think for me I would say you have to ask how
did you grow up around money inyour household?
What was your parents like withmoney and what were you exposed
to?
Because that exposure showsthat how that person is doing.
Because we all have scarcitymindset when it comes to money
and if you see a lot of us, yesand if you're seeing how your
(22:09):
parents and your family memberhas doing it growing up in that
environment, you take on thesame example that Bonnie
provided about our aunt.
You take examples and you applythose examples subconsciously
without not even knowing.
And I think asking thosequestions are like how did you
grow up with money?
How's your parents like withmoney?
That would kind of also, itkind of gives you an idea You're
(22:31):
not really looking for, like,oh, this person has a lot of
money sitting on it.
You're asking an open-endedquestion and now you just have
to observe how they haverelationship with their money
and that's one way to kind ofgive you a little bit of glimpse
of how they deal with money.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So I think one thing I want to transition into is the
fact that sometimes, when oneperson has the money right, it
is power and control right Interms of the dynamics within the
relationship.
And I want to like get youguys' opinion on that in terms
of like is it.
Are you guys, I know, you know,in Islam his money is my money,
(23:11):
my money is my money, right?
So how would you guys navigatethat in terms of do you guys
have joint, would you have jointaccounts?
Would you have your separateaccount?
And is it safe to say that youcan have your own money that is
just yours?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
You can.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, and in two scenarios right One where, like,
you are working and you aremaking your own money, and the
other scenario is that you don'twork, you are a stay-at-home
mom.
Um, but he's still responsiblefor your those are two different
questions yes, I know.
So those, yes both scenariosthough.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So because let's do the first one.
Let's say you're working andyou both are bringing money in.
If there is, I think thequestion to ask is like what
time and days are you living inright now and the time and days
that we live in one income?
Unless he's making more than$300,000 a year, one income is
(24:17):
not going to be able to providefor the whole family.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Depending on your lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Even if it is a lifestyle with education, with
the bills, with the all payment.
I'm sorry but I don't thinklike even that.
Imagine like one income wouldnot be able to sustain one
household unless you have extraside hustles or businesses to
kind of compensate.
Yeah, because even if you make$100,000, it's not going to be
(24:44):
enough for it to take care ofkids and the family and your car
insurance, all that crap thatcomes with it right.
So in that sense there's aspectof contributing in and I do
think that it's okay for thewoman to have her own account
and then there should also be ajoint account based on that
aspect of it.
But if you're going to talkabout the aspect of stay home,
(25:06):
that's a little bit tricky and Idon't have a lot of like.
I don't know.
That conversation itself makesme feel uncomfortable because it
makes me feel like, financially, how are you if anything
happens?
How are you going to take careof yourself?
Is there that conversationhappening with you and your
spouse Right?
Like just unpredictable thingscan happen.
He can get sick, you can getsick, something can happen in
(25:30):
that system.
What are you going to do?
And I think being kind ofhaving that conversation head on
is probably what you're a stayat home wife, but you, you have
a degree.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
You just choose to stay home.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Are you asking my personal opinion?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, both of you guys.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm asking your personal opinion I don't know if
I can be stay at home mombecause I feel like for me, I
like working, I like working, Ilike, I like the, the mental
contribution that I have to thesociety.
It might not be like full-time,excessive working.
It will be a work of like,manageable, where a priority of
the families are being statedand then my work comes second.
(26:10):
After that, first family andthen second my work, but I like
working.
That's the only reason I can'tdo stay-at-home parenting.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think for me, like I would love to be a
stay-at-home mom, right like,but within the compact, like
with a big enough allowance, Ilike that too.
That's really good, you know,with the big enough allowance,
where you know I can do mylittle spa days and I can, you
(26:39):
know, do my stuff here and there.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I think you're talking about Emiratis and
Bahrainians and Qataris andSudanese wives.
I dressed up part two today,not Sudanese, saudi's wives,
like I think, those lifestyle,that's what you want.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, that really is what I want, because, at the end
of the day, I think that mepersonally I've come to the
realization that the biggestcontribution that I can make is
raising really amazing childrenthat are able to participate in
the world.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I mean that makes sense, yeah, and I think
it's taken me a long time torealize that, because I've
always worked, all through highschool, all through college, and
if anybody knows me, I'm alwaysworking yeah, right, yeah.
And I think I've gotten to aspace in my life where I'm just
tired, I'm just, I just need abreak, I just need to that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I can second it.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
I mean there's a difference ofbeing.
I want to be temporary, liketake a pause from working and
then get back to it.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
No, I don't want to work.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
No, no, I like working.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
What about you, Bonnie?
I was just thinking about thethings that, like I, don't work
at all.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Like.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I think one thing I realized, actually specifically
with this maternity leave that Ihad, is that I love staying
home with my kid and this is new, this is new information like
I've never been the personthat's like stay at home, chill,
like my, you know, but I lovedstaying at home for three months
(28:26):
and just being at home and notdoing any well, not doing, not
having to clock in somewhereright, but at the same time, at
the same token, this is the mostproductive I've ever been in
that three months time.
So like I was like creatingbusinesses and I was like
creating NGOs and I was, youknow, like I was doing things
(28:48):
that were like my passionproject.
So I realized like I would be astay at home no, I want to be
rich enough that I don't have toclock in anywhere and I can
spend most of my time with myfamily, but I don't want to give
(29:09):
up my passion projects and Idon't want to give up my
financial independence.
Yes.
And then when it comes to theoriginal question that you guys
are talking about, when it comesto like, is my money his money?
Sorry, my money my money andhis money my money If I'm
working or if I'm stay at homemom, I think the idea sounds
(29:33):
great.
But then regardless, like Ithink, regardless if you're
working or if you're not working, I think everyone should.
The money pile should beavailable to everybody.
Everything that comes into thehousehold should be available to
everybody, Meaning that fromthat pool of money gets taken
out the food, the mortgage, thekids spending, mali, mali, and
(29:56):
then everyone gets an allowance.
If I get, like I said, $200allowance, he gets $200
allowance.
If I am a stay at home mom andI don't have an income, then
that two hundred dollars.
The only fair way of doing thatis that that two hundred dollars
allowance that I have, I put itaway right you know, I put it
away for a rainy day for myself,because for me, being a being
(30:19):
fair, right in today's economy,it doesn't make sense where I am
taking two hundred dollars tospend and then two hundred
dollars to put away, while myhusband that's working and
coming home is putting, takingthat two hundred dollars and
then to do whatever that's hisallowance, while, like you know
what I mean, that other money isspent for everybody, because
(30:39):
it's not like I'm using that 200to buy groceries, right?
So I think, if you're, if we're,every, any money, any coin that
comes into the household shouldcome into a pool where it's
accessible to everybody.
And once you are married, youhave to think in a union matter,
right?
Um, that's how I would.
(31:00):
I think allowances are great,allowances are awesome in the
sense that, like, the more moneyyou have, the more allowance
you get, like I said, right so,but at the same time, it's up to
you if you want to save thatallowance or if you want to blow
that allowance, regardless ifyou're working and you're
bringing in money to the pool orif you are a stay-at-home mom.
That's just how I see it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I think, think, that makes really good.
I think we all want to have alittle bit of financial freedom.
It sounds like all three of ushave a similar idea around that,
but I do want to talk about alittle bit of differently for
single women out there.
When it comes to financialfreedom in this aspect of it,
this is great for couples andpeople who are planning on
getting married and getting thisadvice for people who are
(31:43):
already married and how they'redoing it and I think this is
something that I'm also keepingnoted in the back of my head and
how y'all do it, and that meansthat how people can learn.
As far as for, like, people whoare single, both men and women,
I think it's a great time foryou to kind of learn about this.
Learn about this informationthat's been shared, learn about
(32:05):
the educational aspect that youdon't have access to yet.
So, kind of taking a step backand like what is budgeting looks
like for me right now and whatis saving looks like right now
for me?
What is saving?
What is investment looks likefor me right now?
What is borrowing and giving toother people looks like for me?
Like, am I comfortable withdoing that?
And what does it look like whenI'm married that my husband
(32:27):
might do something like that?
How do I have conversation?
Do.
I feel uncomfortable with that.
I think sometimes we shy awaybecause we hear so much about
money causing problems betweenpeople and their relationships,
even interpersonal relationshipslike friends and families and
sisters and brothers and in thatlevel.
But I think we also need tolearn that if there is a clear
(32:48):
communication about, hey, I'mborrowing you this money, I need
it back, versus I'm giving youthis money, yeah, yeah, and I'm
giving you this money, that's adifferent conversation, right?
So my thing is that, forindividuals who are singles who
are listening to thisconversation, please take the
time to get to know yourselfwith your relationship with
(33:10):
money.
Just like we talk abouttherapies, we talk about you
know, taking care of your mentalhealth, learning what your
needs are based on.
Financial issues are huge in arelationship.
It's one of the reasons, likeApsharo said earlier, that
people do get divorced and thatis a very stressed conversation
to have because you haven'ttalked about the way you were
raised around money, you haven'ttalked about your own
(33:32):
insecurity around money.
You haven't even talked aboutyour own conditioning things or
that has been happening to youall your life and now you're
noticing like I want somethingand I want to get it Versus.
Well, do I want it or do I needit?
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and all that's going to really like help you.
Once you figure out all that asa single person, then you can
show up so much better when youare in a union.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, so definitely, and I just earlier, when Tahabi
was talking about borrowing,that's one thing that kind of
just jumped at me and I, if Igive anyone any advice, is that
don't borrow people money.
Give it away, yes.
(34:17):
Like if you give away what youcan live without.
Like, let's say, for example,if someone asks you for $1,000
and if you can live with givingthem $500 and them not giving
you back, then just give that.
Don't give the $1,000 expectingthe $1,000 back.
That kills relationships.
I don't believe in borrowingmoney.
(34:40):
If I give you what I can livewithout and then if you have the
ability to return that money tome, alhamdulillah.
If you don't, our relationshipis safe.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
That's my so do you say do you borrow it with the
intention of not expecting itback?
Or do you say do you say like,okay, um, I'm, I'm letting you
like?
It's fine, this is is my giftto you?
How do you do that?
So I kind of just do, withoutexpecting it back, because I
mean if they want to give it tome, but the person knows that
(35:09):
they're borrowing it though.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yes, they think they're borrowing it, Okay okay
and they think they're borrowingit Because I'm not bawling like
that.
If I am bawling like that, thenI would be like so it, you know
it's a mindset thing, it's a,it's for me a lot.
Then I don't have any grudge,any resentment.
I'm not.
You don't have to hide from mewhen you see me.
You know what I mean.
You could just live your life.
Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(35:33):
And wrapping up with it, I onething I want to say is make sure
, make sure, make sure, makesure you therapy.
Therapy is not just like aboutyour relationship with money and
what money means to you,specifically you, because you
can't fix someone else right,you have to fix yourself and you
have to be able to, like,clarify what your relationship
(35:56):
is and how you attract money and, at the same time, kind of
zoning your money out, yoursavings you pay yourself first
before you pay anything else.
Savings have to pay.
Be one of your bills, right,your savings, your bills, your
investments, your, yourdonations.
The more you give, the more youget.
I am 100 believer in that.
(36:17):
Your donations.
Make sure you, you know, andmake sure you allocate those and
not budge, and then you'reobviously you're, you're, you're
.
What's it called?
What is that word?
Bills, no.
Emergency money, no, theemergency money too.
But the Saudi people.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Allowance, allowance.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
You're allowance Allowance, yep, so yeah, and I
think that's that sounds likereally good and I think that's
the way to kind of work on yourfinancial literacies and
financial planning so that youcan unlearn a lot of
conditioning behaviors that weall have learned from society,
from our family, from ourfriends, and so we can have a
(36:59):
better relationship with moneyand better relationship with our
significant other and people inour lives and just give people
like that space to grow to youknow, and like people are not
perfect and your relationships,your spouse, none of you guys
are perfect.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
So just you know, talk it out, have that
conversation and then get on thesame page.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
And remember money is just a tool.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yes, exactly, it's an important tool.
But it's a tool yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Assalamualaikum, waalaikumussalam, this has been
Difficult.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Conversations.
Join the conversation in thecomment section or on our social
media pages.
We do not have all the answers,and our biggest goal is to kick
off the conversation and get itstarted.
May Allah accept our effortsand use us for catalysts of
change.
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult
Conversations where we tackletaboo topics in a safe space
through empowerment andeducation.
The information on this podcastis for informational purposes
only and should not beconsidered professional mental
health advice.
Today we are talking aboutmoney, money, money and
(00:23):
relationships.
So I I'm really excited aboutthis topic because I feel like,
um, my husband and I are likemoney languages are on opposite,
so like I hadn't had him sitdown and take a money language
assessment, because I guessnowadays like there's a language
(00:45):
about everything.
But so I was like on this side,a believer where, like we kind
of hope and wish that we haveenough money for everything, and
he was on the opposite end oflike planning and really wanting
to make sure things are paidfor and only paying for things
(01:09):
in cash and being able to affordit and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So I think we I wanted to kind of go back a
little bit of like kind ofgiving the audience introduction
around financial literacy andwhat it means, and what does
that look like for all of us?
And whether you're single,whether you're married, whether
individually, just kind offinancial planning, what does
that look like for you?
(01:32):
I think, growing up, a lot ofus are not really thought to
what needs to happen with money,because for us is money has
attached to survival and beingable to kind of spend what we
have, not to kind of even planahead like rainy day or
emergency day or somebodygetting sick day, or, and if
(01:56):
there's some sort of a crisishappen, what do we do?
And so I feel like thisconversation that today we're
having is like intro to a lot offinancial traumas that a lot of
us experience because we don'tknow what needs to happen.
And there are people who arehoarder, there are people who
are overspender.
That's the two extents that youmeet in our community in
(02:19):
general, whether it's Muslimcommunity, immigrant community.
Overall the people who hoardthe money is like we're going to
have to hold on tight becausewe don't want to be poor again.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Like the Hame says, everything comes from a trauma
response.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes, everything comes from it.
And then there are people whoare like I don't know if I'm
going to see another day, so I'mgoing to enjoy my life to the
fullest and spend what I have,and there's no need for me to
plan, and that includes withkids, with future for the kids
and for themselves as a coupletoo.
And so I'm wondering for bothof you who are married, what was
(02:52):
that conversation like?
Like Apshita, you kind oftalked about that a little bit,
with you and your husbandtalking about financial literacy
, financial planning prior togetting married, or is that
something that you guys didafter you got married?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
oh no, it's after okay planning, um it's after.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
But we did talk about like, how much money do you
have and how much money, howmuch debt do you have and and
how, what like your spendinghabit, what are your goals?
How do you process money, howdo you feel about money, like
that kind of thing.
But not planning.
I think for us, the thing umthe habit you mentioned when you
(03:32):
said you know, with culturallylike we don't have enough not
most of us, at least we don'thave enough money to it's like
money is a like.
It's is like savings is aluxury right.
Savings is a luxury.
Planning for a rainy day is aluxury because most of the time,
especially back home, you getmonthly checks right.
(03:53):
Like the husband or wife, theybring monthly checks home and
then that monthly check is likea rationed throughout the month.
So the kids have to be fed, thekids have to go to school, they
get to, you know, like all ofthese things, and then you pay
for your rent and and then bythe, by the 30th, you're itching
yeah waiting for that paycheckto hit rainy day is is a luxury
(04:18):
back there.
So that from that aspect comestwo different people, like I'm
sure you mentioned also thehoarders and this, you know, the
spenders.
The spenders spent because theynever got a chance to spend
right like they never like, oh,when I was a kid, so and so had
the best shoes and so and so hadthe best you know games and so
on and so forth the best house.
So now that I have money, Iwant, I want those things that I
(04:40):
never had when I was a kid.
And then the other ones arelike, oh, because my parents
didn't have money and they werestruggling a lot, I want to make
sure I never have to feel thatway, that I will have it even
though I'm not going to spend it, but if I want to spend it I
will have it.
So both of those are liketrauma responses from not having
(05:01):
money For me and my husband.
I also grew up in a relativelypaycheck to paycheck household.
You know, I don't think we, myparents, would have been okay,
like if they, you know, theirpaycheck got cut at some point.
So for me, I.
(05:22):
But then the good thing aboutmy family, my parents also is
that they were very honest aboutour financial situation, so
they'd never like shielded us orwhatever.
Whatever.
They were very like hey, youknow, this is how much we get
and this is how much the thingsthat we can afford, this, we can
afford this.
And they were my, my momspecifically.
(05:43):
She was very much, um, likenever made me feel like we don't
have, like we don't have it.
But then, instead of this, getthis anyway like it's the same
thing, not like, oh, you can'thave it, it's the most like you.
If you have it, you will die.
Like someone will like not havefood, right?
You know like instead ofspending 10, 10 bit, like let's
(06:05):
spend five bit on this, or youknow we can't go out all the
time, but like let's go out likeon fridays.
You know, that way I never feltthat need to like want to spend
all the time or the need tolike hoard everything so I live
in that from two incomehousehold, then yes, yes.
Yeah, so and my and my dad hewas a spender Like he, he's the
(06:29):
my mom was the financial brainin our family.
She was the, you know she mydad came and gave the paycheck
to my mom.
She was like, spend it, likeyou know, do something with the
household, so, but she alwayskind of designated like Fridays
(06:49):
we would go out for juice, likeafter work, after school and
after work and stuff like that.
So, or like we, once a monthwe'd go to like Mercato and like
buy clothes or something or eatActually, that's not true, not
clothes, we'll go to Mercato andbuy something small during
either Ramadan and likebirthdays, we will get brand new
clothes and shoes, you know.
So you never felt like without.
And then within our, withinyour community, you everybody's
doing the same thing, right, soyou're fine, so you don't.
(07:12):
I didn't grow up with that like, oh, I have to hoard or I have
to save.
I just was like, if I have it,I will do what's reasonable with
it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, so you know the mediums yeah, growing up, my
mom was the financialbreadwinner in the family and so
I, like I grew up with herworking and and she always tried
her best to provide for us.
Like you know, if anybody allthe other kids will have phones
or whatever she tried her best,you know, to give us as well.
(07:42):
So then, after we got married,I think I made it a point to
have that conversation aboutfinances early on, because they,
you know, they say thatfinancial problems are probably
one of the leading causes ofarguments in a relationship and
you know when you're not.
It's a big stressor, you know,especially when you're not on
the same page, especially whenyou're not on the same page and
(08:04):
when you are talking to somebodyand he or she has put up a
front about either having a lotof money or not having a lot of
money, and then, after themarriage, the reality hits.
So my husband and I have beenreally good about talking every
situation out, talking purchasesand kind of saying, okay, what
(08:27):
do we, we have, what can weafford?
Um, and stuff like that.
And me personally, I've alwaysbeen like I would rather like
spending on other people.
I have no issues with right,like my kids and buying stuff,
um, but for some reason likebuying something for me if it's
like really, really expensive.
I kind of like a hub, you knowyou really don't need that yeah
(08:49):
you really don't need that, orlike you know it's too expensive
or whatever.
So I'm really trying to get itget out of that headspace of
like if I want it, then just buyit.
You know, yeah, especially ifyou like, if I have the means
and I have the money, um.
So I'm I'm like I worked a loton trying to not have that
remorse.
You know, you go to the store,you buy a really nice perfume
(09:12):
and then you go home it's like,oh, did you really need that?
Or whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So so for me, I grow up same as bonnie.
I had two parents, um who theyare, two income, but my mom
worked a lot harder than I wouldsay, my dad.
My dad will give what is inOromo Domoza, you know, like
rent, monthly income, likesalary.
He'll give, but sometimes, likeit's not enough and my mom want
(09:37):
to splash a little bit and domore, like let's say for example
what is that?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
again Domoza Is that the same of like that is is
Amharic word, but I don't knowit in normal.
Is that the same thing as likethe Islamic concept of nafqa,
where like no, it's just salary?
Damuz means salary, I know, butI'm saying, like the guy pays,
it's like the work the husbandgives the guy, the husband pays
the wife.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Right the monthly I hear to take care of the it's
the concept of nafqa, exactlyOkay.
So my dad would do that and mymom, like she, likes to do more.
Like, let's say, for examplethis is an example about like
meat, right, meats are veryexpensive regardless of what
country you live in.
And if my dad gave, like, let'ssay, $100 for the lunch and
(10:17):
dinner meals, for the ration orgrocery, Is that a monthly
payment?
she gets that's not monthly.
But then Is that a monthlypayment?
She gets that's not monthly,but then he gives her a specific
amount monthly and that's I sayhe doesn't do monthly, he do
daily.
So because he's like he dodaily for breakfast, lunch and
dinner and whatever extra things, I need to be by for that day,
and so if my mom wants to buysomething extra, she doesn't go
(10:41):
ask my dad.
Instead she used her own moneybecause she also works.
And so for me I grew up in thatenvironment of two people
working and financial literacyis not really something that
discussed it's more like youhave to have money and you can't
(11:01):
really rely on like kind oftake care of myself as the my
only financial person who does.
It is that I had to learn theunlearn a lot of financial
traumas that I was raised around, based on the environment that
I was in, because I come from asmall town, awadai, which means
that there's not a lot of like.
It's more like a daily thing,like the same way my dad does it
(11:23):
, then monthly thing.
So for me, I have to unlearnthose things like oh's more like
a daily thing, like the sameway my dad does it, than monthly
thing.
So for me, I have to unlearnthose things like oh, what are
the things that I'm still doingtoday?
That is similar to my household, and so I think one of the
things that I did which we'regoing to go into is that I kind
of learned, did a lot of likeYouTube learning and reading
books and like learning aboutrainy day, emergency money,
(11:48):
vacation money, saving money andthen investment money.
How do you invest your money?
Do you invest your money instocks?
I didn't know anything aboutstocks until COVID and so I
started learning about savingand doing stock investment in
COVID and like not doing a lotof extensive money.
That is that, as someone who'snow has that understanding of
(12:11):
like there is other way ofinvesting and saving for your
rainy days and things like that,is that the idea of one of the
things that is really fearorientated for me is just going
negative in my account.
Fear orientated for me is justgoing negative in my account,
like going checking out mychecking accounts.
You know, seeing a negativethat's like a heart attack and a
stroke and aneurysm at the sametime happening.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Have you, have you ever had one of those months
like for me?
This used to happen, like incollege, where I avoid my bank
account.
Looking at my bank account,like for a week, because I know
either it's like low account isgonna make me sad.
I just don't spend and I justdon't look at it.
I'm just like until my paycheckcomes.
I'm just not gonna look at ityeah, and if I and I read that
(12:55):
actually people that don't havelike that are very tight in
their in their budget or they'revery tight in their um income.
They don't look at theirspending.
No, they look at their spendingleast and they look at their
bank account, the least amountversus people that have a lot of
money in their bank account.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
They look and check more yeah, which is kind of
opposite I feel like if you havea lot of money, you would just
like rah it out, yeah, no and Ithink also you know the guilt's
conscious, though right it'slike it's also anxiety inducing,
like if you look at it and youknow what you don't have, you're
gonna constantly in that spaceof uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But that's the thing with, like cash versus a card,
right like if when I have cash,I know exactly what I'm spending
it on and then, but when I'myou just using the credit card,
it's like it's out of mind, outof sight, you know, and you just
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I feel like I am one of those people that's like, if
it's cash, it's not money yeah,it's a girl.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Math, yeah, and I, I thought I the weird one.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
But then I saw it in those girls math TikToks videos
that I'm not the only one Likeif I have cash, if I find like
$50 in my purse, that money doesnot count, you just got paid.
I just got paid if I have.
That's why I call it I'm richlike wallahi, like I'm like, oh,
I can go get some sushi, like,yeah, I don't count that as a
spending, yeah.
(14:26):
But one thing I also realizedis that, um, when we were having
this conversation, when I wastalking about myself and so on
and so forth, is that, um, theconcept of money and how money
relates to you and how moneymakes you feel, is the trauma
part right?
And for me, I was told from avery young age and I think this
is probably the only episodewhere maybe I am a little bit
(14:49):
healthier than all of you guyswhat Are you bragging?
No, I'm just saying likenormally I'm the one that that's
like I'm the most traumatic ortraumatized or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
But I don't have any trauma.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
That's what I just said.
I'm the one normally.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Good Anyway so what I'm, what I'm, what I was trying
to say was that normally whenpeople have and I kind of have
learned this through now my, myaunts and so on and so forth is
that I grew up in the idea of,like our house, our income, it
doesn't matter what yourneighbor has.
It does not matter what yourneighbor is doing or what you
(15:26):
know, whatever your environmentis doing.
So if you have $10 on youraccount and you know you can
only spend $9 of that becausethe $1 for your rent or whatever
.
I'm just you know you can onlyspend nine dollars of that
because the one dollar is foryour rent or whatever.
I'm just you know, simplifyingit and that your, your neighbor
is have is working with twentydollars, you don't, you don't
look down and you don't look up.
(15:55):
Or if your neighbor has fivedollars and they're, you know if
you are making $100, make sureyou give yourself $1 to spend on
yourself the way you want to.
That kind of alleviates theguilt aspect of it.
So like if I'm spend and thenlike when I was in high school
and I used to work and after andI used to like and then also
(16:16):
attach money with reward andafter and I used to like and
then also attach money withreward, so like, instead of
spending money uh for like, if Iwant a purse that's like really
a little bit expensive, I wouldattach it to a goal so I'm like
okay, inshallah, like if, whenI was in high school, I would
say okay, when I get, like, if Iget a straight ace this
semester, then I'll get myselfthis thing.
When, when you're older, you sayokay, if I saved this much, or
(16:39):
if I, you know, worked this much, or if I, whatever, I stuck to
this goal of reading this manybooks, or whatever, then I'll
get myself this thing.
That way it alleviates theguilt of it yeah, and you take
it out of that one percent ofthe income that you're getting.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
yeah, um, anyway, that was just I think that's a
really good plan, a way to goabout it, and I think that is a
really good, healthy way thatyou know you're learned by the
environment that you're in and Ithink that is something that to
change the perspective ofreframing the aspect of your
(17:14):
relationship with money.
And I think but we also have tounderstand that for people who
have not even though that soundsreally good, and to apply it
unless they excessively workedon that and tried to unlearn the
behavior that prior to came toit, it makes it so hard because
the same thing that we weresaying earlier is like, if I
(17:37):
know I don't have money, I'm notgoing to look at my account
right.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So then let's go back to, I guess, what we started
with, uh, the beginning of theepisode, in terms of like when,
when you come, you know, comeinto a union with another person
, how do these, how do theselike languages or ways of
dealing with money come up?
And when conflicts happen iswhen you have completely
(18:01):
different views, right when youknow you or your husband or one
of them, one of you guys wantsto save more, or one of you guys
, you know, wants to spend more.
How do you deal with thatsituation and how do you avoid
that crisis?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I think, think, when it comes to money you have to
have first of all for those thatare not already in a union, I
would say you have to have thatconversation clearly, with no
sugarcoating, before you getinto marriage, not just about
what's your debt, what's this,what's that, but how do you
relate to money?
(18:35):
How does money make you feel?
Is it important for you to havemoney?
Is it important for you to looklike you have money and not?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
just asking, but like I feel like putting scenarios
out there, you know what I mean.
Like I feel like sometimes whenyou're talking to somebody,
they can tell you anything.
Right, they can tell you, oh,you know, whatever, until you
see it, until you, until you seeit, you know, and I think you
know setting up scenarios or youknow asking questions in a way
(19:06):
where, like you can really seewhat their relationship is with
money is I feel like a lot morehelpful definitely.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
and then also talking about your end goal, right,
like, what does your rich lifelook like?
I was actually.
I don't know if you guys havebeen watching, if you guys have
seen this Netflix show it talksabout.
It's a show called your RichLife, I think I don't remember
and he talks about what doesyour rich life look like If you
were rich?
What does that mean?
(19:34):
How does how do you perceivebeing rich If you were rich?
What does that mean?
How do you perceive being rich?
Does that mean a white picketfence, a house and, like you
know, like nine to five job andlike having a good retirement
account?
Is that your rich life?
Are you imagining a yacht and aboat and whatever that
extravagancy is?
What does your rich life looklike?
How do you plan on gettingthere Right?
(19:56):
Rich life look like, um, how doyou plan on getting there right
?
And having that conversation oflike okay, where, because some
people they don't have ever,they don't ever want to like,
they don't care about being rich, they care about being stable,
they care about being, um, whatis it?
What do you call it?
Like?
Security, secure, yeah, theycare about being secure and
stable, right?
So?
And if that if you're marryingsomeone that's ambitious and
(20:18):
that's just want to go get itand like, or you know, some
people are not really ambitious,but they want to look ambitious
they want to look rich, theywant to.
They want the newest house, theywant the newest car.
When they're buying it with acredit card, that's 29 percent
you know, apr.
So, like you just have to havethat real, honest and sometimes
open up the book in marriage.
(20:38):
While you are married, youcan't be oblivious to the
spending habits of each other.
I don't believe in secrecy andanything but this one is like a
no-go.
You have to be able to talkabout money openly and I don't
think regardless.
I consider myself a veryindependent person.
I'm.
You know, I make money from thehousehold too, just like my
(21:02):
husband does.
But when we come to the table,I'm like, even if I'm trying to
buy from Amazon, you know, fromfrom my $200 of, let's say, my
budget of the month, right, like, I can do whatever I want and I
, if I, if it's gonna step five,five dollars off of that budget
that I have allocated formyself, we know, for whatever, I
(21:24):
have to consult with my husband.
That's not asking for hispermission, that's working
together, because I don't knowif that five dollars is gonna
skew something somewhere, right,so we have to sit down and have
a conversation about it and belike, hey, I'm planning on
spending this much outside of mybudget.
Or, you know, I have this extrabudget from my $200 that I
(21:44):
didn't spend.
Where do you think we shouldput it?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So I think for me I would say you have to ask how
did you grow up around money inyour household?
What was your parents like withmoney and what were you exposed
to?
Because that exposure showsthat how that person is doing.
Because we all have scarcitymindset when it comes to money
and if you see a lot of us, yesand if you're seeing how your
(22:09):
parents and your family memberhas doing it growing up in that
environment, you take on thesame example that Bonnie
provided about our aunt.
You take examples and you applythose examples subconsciously
without not even knowing.
And I think asking thosequestions are like how did you
grow up with money?
How's your parents like withmoney?
That would kind of also, itkind of gives you an idea You're
(22:31):
not really looking for, like,oh, this person has a lot of
money sitting on it.
You're asking an open-endedquestion and now you just have
to observe how they haverelationship with their money
and that's one way to kind ofgive you a little bit of glimpse
of how they deal with money.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So I think one thing I want to transition into is the
fact that sometimes, when oneperson has the money right, it
is power and control right Interms of the dynamics within the
relationship.
And I want to like get youguys' opinion on that in terms
of like is it.
Are you guys, I know, you know,in Islam his money is my money,
(23:11):
my money is my money, right?
So how would you guys navigatethat in terms of do you guys
have joint, would you have jointaccounts?
Would you have your separateaccount?
And is it safe to say that youcan have your own money that is
just yours?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
You can.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, and in two scenarios right One where, like,
you are working and you aremaking your own money, and the
other scenario is that you don'twork, you are a stay-at-home
mom.
Um, but he's still responsiblefor your those are two different
questions yes, I know.
So those, yes both scenariosthough.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So because let's do the first one.
Let's say you're working andyou both are bringing money in.
If there is, I think thequestion to ask is like what
time and days are you living inright now and the time and days
that we live in one income?
Unless he's making more than$300,000 a year, one income is
(24:17):
not going to be able to providefor the whole family.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Depending on your lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Even if it is a lifestyle with education, with
the bills, with the all payment.
I'm sorry but I don't thinklike even that.
Imagine like one income wouldnot be able to sustain one
household unless you have extraside hustles or businesses to
kind of compensate.
Yeah, because even if you make$100,000, it's not going to be
(24:44):
enough for it to take care ofkids and the family and your car
insurance, all that crap thatcomes with it right.
So in that sense there's aspectof contributing in and I do
think that it's okay for thewoman to have her own account
and then there should also be ajoint account based on that
aspect of it.
But if you're going to talkabout the aspect of stay home,
(25:06):
that's a little bit tricky and Idon't have a lot of like.
I don't know.
That conversation itself makesme feel uncomfortable because it
makes me feel like, financially, how are you if anything
happens?
How are you going to take careof yourself?
Is there that conversationhappening with you and your
spouse Right?
Like just unpredictable thingscan happen.
He can get sick, you can getsick, something can happen in
(25:30):
that system.
What are you going to do?
And I think being kind ofhaving that conversation head on
is probably what you're a stayat home wife, but you, you have
a degree.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
You just choose to stay home.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Are you asking my personal opinion?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, both of you guys.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm asking your personal opinion I don't know if
I can be stay at home mombecause I feel like for me, I
like working, I like working, Ilike, I like the, the mental
contribution that I have to thesociety.
It might not be like full-time,excessive working.
It will be a work of like,manageable, where a priority of
the families are being statedand then my work comes second.
(26:10):
After that, first family andthen second my work, but I like
working.
That's the only reason I can'tdo stay-at-home parenting.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think for me, like I would love to be a
stay-at-home mom, right like,but within the compact, like
with a big enough allowance, Ilike that too.
That's really good, you know,with the big enough allowance,
where you know I can do mylittle spa days and I can, you
(26:39):
know, do my stuff here and there.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I think you're talking about Emiratis and
Bahrainians and Qataris andSudanese wives.
I dressed up part two today,not Sudanese, saudi's wives,
like I think, those lifestyle,that's what you want.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, that really is what I want, because, at the end
of the day, I think that mepersonally I've come to the
realization that the biggestcontribution that I can make is
raising really amazing childrenthat are able to participate in
the world.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I mean that makes sense, yeah, and I think
it's taken me a long time torealize that, because I've
always worked, all through highschool, all through college, and
if anybody knows me, I'm alwaysworking yeah, right, yeah.
And I think I've gotten to aspace in my life where I'm just
tired, I'm just, I just need abreak, I just need to that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I can second it.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
I mean there's a difference ofbeing.
I want to be temporary, liketake a pause from working and
then get back to it.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
No, I don't want to work.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
No, no, I like working.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
What about you, Bonnie?
I was just thinking about thethings that, like I, don't work
at all.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Like.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I think one thing I realized, actually specifically
with this maternity leave that Ihad, is that I love staying
home with my kid and this is new, this is new information like
I've never been the personthat's like stay at home, chill,
like my, you know, but I lovedstaying at home for three months
(28:26):
and just being at home and notdoing any well, not doing, not
having to clock in somewhereright, but at the same time, at
the same token, this is the mostproductive I've ever been in
that three months time.
So like I was like creatingbusinesses and I was like
creating NGOs and I was, youknow, like I was doing things
(28:48):
that were like my passionproject.
So I realized like I would be astay at home no, I want to be
rich enough that I don't have toclock in anywhere and I can
spend most of my time with myfamily, but I don't want to give
(29:09):
up my passion projects and Idon't want to give up my
financial independence.
Yes.
And then when it comes to theoriginal question that you guys
are talking about, when it comesto like, is my money his money?
Sorry, my money my money andhis money my money If I'm
working or if I'm stay at homemom, I think the idea sounds
(29:33):
great.
But then regardless, like Ithink, regardless if you're
working or if you're not working, I think everyone should.
The money pile should beavailable to everybody.
Everything that comes into thehousehold should be available to
everybody, Meaning that fromthat pool of money gets taken
out the food, the mortgage, thekids spending, mali, mali, and
(29:56):
then everyone gets an allowance.
If I get, like I said, $200allowance, he gets $200
allowance.
If I am a stay at home mom andI don't have an income, then
that two hundred dollars.
The only fair way of doing thatis that that two hundred dollars
allowance that I have, I put itaway right you know, I put it
away for a rainy day for myself,because for me, being a being
(30:19):
fair, right in today's economy,it doesn't make sense where I am
taking two hundred dollars tospend and then two hundred
dollars to put away, while myhusband that's working and
coming home is putting, takingthat two hundred dollars and
then to do whatever that's hisallowance, while, like you know
what I mean, that other money isspent for everybody, because
(30:39):
it's not like I'm using that 200to buy groceries, right?
So I think, if you're, if we're,every, any money, any coin that
comes into the household shouldcome into a pool where it's
accessible to everybody.
And once you are married, youhave to think in a union matter,
right?
Um, that's how I would.
(31:00):
I think allowances are great,allowances are awesome in the
sense that, like, the more moneyyou have, the more allowance
you get, like I said, right so,but at the same time, it's up to
you if you want to save thatallowance or if you want to blow
that allowance, regardless ifyou're working and you're
bringing in money to the pool orif you are a stay-at-home mom.
That's just how I see it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I think, think, that makes really good.
I think we all want to have alittle bit of financial freedom.
It sounds like all three of ushave a similar idea around that,
but I do want to talk about alittle bit of differently for
single women out there.
When it comes to financialfreedom in this aspect of it,
this is great for couples andpeople who are planning on
getting married and getting thisadvice for people who are
(31:43):
already married and how they'redoing it and I think this is
something that I'm also keepingnoted in the back of my head and
how y'all do it, and that meansthat how people can learn.
As far as for, like, people whoare single, both men and women,
I think it's a great time foryou to kind of learn about this.
Learn about this informationthat's been shared, learn about
(32:05):
the educational aspect that youdon't have access to yet.
So, kind of taking a step backand like what is budgeting looks
like for me right now and whatis saving looks like right now
for me?
What is saving?
What is investment looks likefor me right now?
What is borrowing and giving toother people looks like for me?
Like, am I comfortable withdoing that?
And what does it look like whenI'm married that my husband
(32:27):
might do something like that?
How do I have conversation?
Do.
I feel uncomfortable with that.
I think sometimes we shy awaybecause we hear so much about
money causing problems betweenpeople and their relationships,
even interpersonal relationshipslike friends and families and
sisters and brothers and in thatlevel.
But I think we also need tolearn that if there is a clear
(32:48):
communication about, hey, I'mborrowing you this money, I need
it back, versus I'm giving youthis money, yeah, yeah, and I'm
giving you this money, that's adifferent conversation, right?
So my thing is that, forindividuals who are singles who
are listening to thisconversation, please take the
time to get to know yourselfwith your relationship with
(33:10):
money.
Just like we talk abouttherapies, we talk about you
know, taking care of your mentalhealth, learning what your
needs are based on.
Financial issues are huge in arelationship.
It's one of the reasons, likeApsharo said earlier, that
people do get divorced and thatis a very stressed conversation
to have because you haven'ttalked about the way you were
raised around money, you haven'ttalked about your own
(33:32):
insecurity around money.
You haven't even talked aboutyour own conditioning things or
that has been happening to youall your life and now you're
noticing like I want somethingand I want to get it Versus.
Well, do I want it or do I needit?
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and all that's going to really like help you.
Once you figure out all that asa single person, then you can
show up so much better when youare in a union.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, so definitely, and I just earlier, when Tahabi
was talking about borrowing,that's one thing that kind of
just jumped at me and I, if Igive anyone any advice, is that
don't borrow people money.
Give it away, yes.
(34:17):
Like if you give away what youcan live without.
Like, let's say, for example,if someone asks you for $1,000
and if you can live with givingthem $500 and them not giving
you back, then just give that.
Don't give the $1,000 expectingthe $1,000 back.
That kills relationships.
I don't believe in borrowingmoney.
(34:40):
If I give you what I can livewithout and then if you have the
ability to return that money tome, alhamdulillah.
If you don't, our relationshipis safe.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
That's my so do you say do you borrow it with the
intention of not expecting itback?
Or do you say do you say like,okay, um, I'm, I'm letting you
like?
It's fine, this is is my giftto you?
How do you do that?
So I kind of just do, withoutexpecting it back, because I
mean if they want to give it tome, but the person knows that
(35:09):
they're borrowing it though.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yes, they think they're borrowing it, Okay okay
and they think they're borrowingit Because I'm not bawling like
that.
If I am bawling like that, thenI would be like so it, you know
it's a mindset thing, it's a,it's for me a lot.
Then I don't have any grudge,any resentment.
I'm not.
You don't have to hide from mewhen you see me.
You know what I mean.
You could just live your life.
Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(35:33):
And wrapping up with it, I onething I want to say is make sure
, make sure, make sure, makesure you therapy.
Therapy is not just like aboutyour relationship with money and
what money means to you,specifically you, because you
can't fix someone else right,you have to fix yourself and you
have to be able to, like,clarify what your relationship
(35:56):
is and how you attract money and, at the same time, kind of
zoning your money out, yoursavings you pay yourself first
before you pay anything else.
Savings have to pay.
Be one of your bills, right,your savings, your bills, your
investments, your, yourdonations.
The more you give, the more youget.
I am 100 believer in that.
(36:17):
Your donations.
Make sure you, you know, andmake sure you allocate those and
not budge, and then you'reobviously you're, you're, you're
.
What's it called?
What is that word?
Bills, no.
Emergency money, no, theemergency money too.
But the Saudi people.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Allowance, allowance.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
You're allowance Allowance, yep, so yeah, and I
think that's that sounds likereally good and I think that's
the way to kind of work on yourfinancial literacies and
financial planning so that youcan unlearn a lot of
conditioning behaviors that weall have learned from society,
from our family, from ourfriends, and so we can have a
(36:59):
better relationship with moneyand better relationship with our
significant other and people inour lives and just give people
like that space to grow to youknow, and like people are not
perfect and your relationships,your spouse, none of you guys
are perfect.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
So just you know, talk it out, have that
conversation and then get on thesame page.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
And remember money is just a tool.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yes, exactly, it's an important tool.
But it's a tool yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Assalamualaikum, waalaikumussalam, this has been
Difficult.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Conversations.
Join the conversation in thecomment section or on our social
media pages.
We do not have all the answers,and our biggest goal is to kick
off the conversation and get itstarted.
May Allah accept our effortsand use us for catalysts of
change.
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