Season Four Finale

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Assalamu alaikum, welcome to Difficult
Conversations where we tackletaboo topics in a safe space
through empowerment andeducation.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everyone, welcome back to our final
episode of season four.
Um, like yesterday, um, or ourlast episode, we were talking
about and we were doing a lot ofreflection on how 2024 went, uh
, individually, um, and also asa group and as a team, and how
we were able to grow, thrive um,struggle through um 2024 and

(00:39):
today, uh, I want us to start byhaving a conversation about
2025, what we hope to be, whatwe hope to do, what we hope it
comes with changes we'd like tomake, and so on and so forth.
So let me throw it back toApsharo how do you see your 2025
going?
Or hope, inshallah, with thelast night inshallah with.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
That's right.
Um so I think like every year Ido this and um so, like going
back, I think we said uh on ourlast episode that like 2024 now,
um, like a couple days ago Ilooked at our calendar because
we have, uh, have you guys seenthose like 12 month calendars
that like are all spread out umheard about it.
Yeah, no, I sent you a linklast year or at the beginning of

(01:30):
the year.
Yeah, anyway, you said you weregonna get it for me oh yeah,
sorry, but um, so I was lookingback at like January and because
we had written some things and,um, I felt like I was really
good at like putting things onthe calendar that I wanted to
achieve and like six months inand then everything else was

(01:53):
blank.
So I think this year I reallywant to work on putting like
three-month goals, six-monthgoals and 12-month goals and
actually, like you know, beingaccountable whether if it's like
telling somebody or whatnot Iwant to really keep myself
accountable for that.
That's what I said last year.

(02:15):
Yeah, because I feel like like Idon't know.
I want to be that person thatmakes goals and crushes them.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Three-month goals yeah, a lot more tangible than
like longer goals yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
So I think this year I have one thing on there that
we want to go back home,hopefully, uh, one ticket family
trip, family trip to Ethiopia.
Girl, this is my first timeback.
I don't know what about me.
Um, I don't know.
It's kind of it seems like adaunting experience, like yeah
you know, yeah, I want to likevisit where I was born.

(02:51):
I have a lot of family back home.
Oh yeah, I don't want to gowith you.
Yeah, sorry, um.
And then the three things Iwant to focus on is self-care,
self-improvement andself-discipline.
Yeah, so those are.
Those are my big things.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
What does discipline look like for?

Speaker 1 (03:08):
you, I think I was talking to a friend of mine and,
um, what she does is impressivebecause, like she homeschools
and she has her whole day, likeum, blocked out.
You know she has, like in themorning she'll get up, you know,
and she sent me her screenshot.
Uh, you know she has, like inthe morning she'll get up, you
know, and she sent me herscreenshot.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Uh, you know what time she gets up, how much time
she allocates to the kids.
Yeah, oh, sorry, sorry, I sawit.
I I got like exhausted justlooking at it.
It's so impressive, but itworks for her right.
Yeah, it works though no, no,I'm not being critical, I'm
being like yeah yeah it's, it'sreally amazing, um.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
We're like to have your time, you know, like sliced
up, like that, you know, um,and so I tried to do that and I
realized that there's a lot oftime that I just waste, you know
, whether it's like on myturkish dramas or like you know,
and all that stuff so, oh, thatmakes sense.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
That's why you like turkish people yeah, that's what
started it all, huh yeah, Ilove, yeah, anyway.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
So I really just want to be intentional with my time,
because you know there arecertain projects that I want to
get into, um, certain thingsthat I want to take on, and at
the beginning of the I do thisthing where, like, I sign up for
a bunch of courses you know,like um, I signed up to um learn
about AI, to do better with AI.
So that's a whole course initself.
Um, how to do some like onlineum, businesses or whatever.

(04:38):
So I sign up for these things,but I think my follow through is
not great.
So that's what I want to workon what about you?

Speaker 3 (04:49):
I honestly don't know .
I was just telling you guys, Idon't.
I really don't know next yearplan looks like.
I know for sure that I want totry things that I've been
wanting to.
I've been saying that I want todo, um, I just want to focus on
that, like, for example, I wantto do boxing.
I want to do, I want to do moretraveling, as always, because I

(05:11):
do enjoy that but going maybedifferent continent in that set
of country, um, but I don't haveyet like a practical,
distinguished plan aboutanything yet.
But one thing for sure I wantto stay consistent.
So consistency more thanmotivation, that's what I was
told not to do.

(05:32):
Don't look for the motivationto do things, just do it
consistently.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
You'll get there eventually.
Yeah, it's so hard to beconsistent though.
Yeah, yeah, cause I think yeah,I self-sabotage a lot Like I'll
be consistent for a week andthen the following week I'll be
like worse than I was on Monday.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, so that's why I remember when I said yesterday
previous episode, which wasyesterday when we recorded is I
said that at least I want to goto the mosque twice a month.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Because I feel like that's doable, versus saying I'm
going to be at the masjid everyFriday around this time.
Because then that commitmentthat you make to yourself, you
feel so guilty and there's somuch shame around not being able
to complete some thingssuccessfully.
And I feel like, because I'vebeen talking about things that I
want to do for so long that Ihaven't I've been just doing the

(06:23):
talking, not the implementation, and staying consistent with it
.
And then I'm realizing there'sa lot of shame and guilt comes
within myself.
The inner critic is telling methat look how much you're
talking, you're not doinganything.
It's basically so loud and soit feels defeating.
So this year, even though meand my friends had like a vision

(06:44):
board party, I did the visionboard and I'm looking at it, but
at the same time I feel like,even with that, I want to be
like, I'm a little bit of like.
Can I actually do it?
There's that fear already there.
So it's like, okay, the visionboard is there, the idea is
there.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Let me just see what I can get to by being consistent
versus trying to make acommitment to something that I'm
eventually gonna you know, sodo you have, like, what are two
things that you want to do onthat vision board or like,
because I feel like sometimes Ido that too, where I was like
you can't do it anyways, orwhatever yeah, I'm not doing
anything yeah, then you feeldefeated, and then you see other

(07:21):
people do it so well.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
You're like see, look , there's so much better than
you.
What are you doing?
So?
Obviously there's spirituality,there's physical health,
there's relationships, there'sfamily and there's a community.
There's a new one.
I want community, and I thinkthose are the five areas of
things, and there's also careerfocus, finances and um areas

(07:47):
that you can improve better.
I did one thing for sure this isa big one for me for coming
here I want to shop less and Ialso want to get rid of more of
the things I I hate how muchclutter my closet is right now,
and I also want to shop qualityversus quantity, and if it means

(08:08):
that I have to spend more moneyon like name consistent jacket
or shoes, I'd rather do that,and I'd rather have like three
quality shoes and kill that andthen buy another one because
that one is broken or somethinghappened to it.
Buy another one because thatone is broken or something
happened to it, because I reallyI like I'm trying to find um

(08:28):
like a homeless shelter.
I don't want to take anythingto thrift stores because I've
learned so much thing about thatthat I'm not.
I don't want to do but I wantto learn I take a lot of stuff.
I know tiktok university, sowhat I've learned that a lot of
the thrift store stuff, productthat you said you it to them.
There are people who take thatand take it to like I'm putting

(08:49):
this in quotation people arejust listening to this third
world country and then they'remaking business out of it and
they're getting wealthy out ofthat.
But it's like you're taking itto thrift store to help people
who are in need.
But there are people becomingmillionaires out of the things
that you're selling at thriftstores.
So they buy from here and theytake it to like Africa, south

(09:10):
America and then who pays for it?
The government, no individuals.
They go import and export.
So they sell it basically.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
They sell it yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
They sell your stuff, but you're giving it for free
and they're making money on it.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
That is free and they're making money on it, but
that is a smart business.
It is.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
It is, but at the same time, yes, exactly that's
where my my principle is tellingme not to like give it to
people actually use it here,versus people who say, like
salvation army does that, youknow, you can do that like
goodwill.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
does that you can like send a tank or whatever
back home, fill it with supplies.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
I would love to do that as a non-profit that I
don't want to make money off.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Does that make sense?
You just have to cover shipping, because I know my husband and
a bunch of his friends did thatwith medical supplies, and then
I think it cost him $20,000 forthe big container.
And then they just fundraisedand stuff and sent it oh man,
yeah, and then I think it costthem like $20,000 for the big
container.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, and then they just like fundraised and stuff
and sent it.
Oh man, yeah, so yeah,decoloring my closet, yeah,
allah, help me.
Stay consistent on that.
That's what I'm going to focuson.
I said a lot but it soundedlike I didn't have any plan.
But it's a plan that is notcommit to.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
No pressure that is not commit to.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah.
So no pressure, no pressure, no, exactly.
What about you, bonnie?
I love it whenever it's likeyou throw it back to me and I'm
like thanks, you don't have likeall these things.
Yeah, yeah I my 2025.
Um, there's a lot of likeinternal work I plan on doing
inshallah, and then there's alot of like actual, actual,
actual things that I want to beable to do.
Um, the first thing is I wantto be very a lot.

(10:52):
I want to be nicer to myself,like.
I want to be like more kinder,kinder and like giving myself a
little bit more grace, becauseone one of the things, um, I
learned in 2024 is that I kindof like what it's called.
I count myself out of thingslike really fast.
I would be like I told you guysabout the classes, right, the

(11:14):
two classes that.
I almost dropped out of beforeand I'm just like I can't do
this.
I get into it thinking I will,I can do this in the middle of
it because I have aprocrastination and stuff like
that.
I'm like I can't do this in themiddle of it because I have a
procrastination and stuff likethat.
I'm like I can't do this.
My brain doesn't work like this.
La, la, la la, and then I endup crushing the class.
So I um doing it very well,mashallah so I, I'm, I'm gonna

(11:38):
be kinder to myself um and speakpositive, positive positivity
into my actions and in, sothat's that it sounds like
opposite of what I said but yeah.
I love that for you so that'smy first internal work.
Um my second thing I I am also.

(12:00):
I love getting rid of things.
That's like my favorite thingto do is like I love a
minimalistic home, I love aminimalistic lifestyle, my
closet, I want to get rid ofmore things.
So similar to you.
I love, like when I clean things, my husband's mother always is

(12:22):
like why are you getting?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
you know, I'm just like because you know older
people.
They like to hold on to thingsI think I rarely throw things
away honestly, oh my god that'smy favorite activities, can I
tell you?

Speaker 3 (12:33):
guys, something about that holding on to things, not
getting rid of things, which isthat's a trauma response.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
No, it's just it is we hoarding time.
I just don't have the time togo through and like especially
the kids toys like I.
First we started with like thecorner of their room.
Now it has invaded our likeliving space upstairs.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
It's different.
So that's different, though I'mtalking about, like us holding
on to something from 2000.
Yeah, 2003.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
You know what I mean.
Like those things, like when.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
I got married 20 years ago, like when you're
holding on to things like 20years ago, that it doesn't have
any sustainable memoriesattached to it.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, some of them are like sentimental Some of
them are Two different things,by the way, it's not saying two
different things.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
By the way, it's not, I mean like if it doesn't have
sentimentally, like pictures andor like art or things like
really tangible things thatattach memories to.
But sometimes we even hold onto shoes that like, oh, this was
my shoes that I wore to thisevent and it's.
I'm like, yes, it is great, butyou have a thousand shoes, so,
anyway, keep going.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Sorry no, no, no.
I I am right there with you,like because there's there I
used to, when I first gotmarried and had kids and stuff
like that.
I used to hold on to a lot ofmy like clothes of my heydays,
my skinny days, um, and then, uh, I was like you know what I?
I, I don't, I literally don'town anything older than two

(14:03):
years old because, I one.
I was like, even if I, you know,lose all the weight and get
back to that body, my style isprobably not similar to then
yeah so therefore, I'm probablynot going to want to wear those
things.
Um, and then if it's likeclothes or like if it's shoes or
whatever, and I know likethere's so many like emotions

(14:23):
attached to it because of likehow that dress made me feel how
that shoot made me feel right,like wear or walk.
But I'm just like you know what?
Because the thing is I'm Idon't, I this might be an ADHD
thing, but I'm not diagnosed, soI don't know but I, whenever
things get cluttered, whenever Ican't be like, okay, these are

(14:46):
the things that I have and thisis the thing that I wear, I get
really like my brain getscluttered.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Does that make?

Speaker 2 (14:53):
sense.
So like um if like for the kidstoys, I know that they use the
same 15, 10, 20 toys over andover again, so with them, I
don't throw them away, I justbox them and put them in the
basement out of and then I justin case, if they want something
new or whatever, I'll go backand grab a couple and I make

(15:14):
sure I like turn it around, youknow, and so on and so forth, so
that we don't keep buyingthings um.
But like normally, kids gethyper fixated on specific toys
for a very long time so I justdo that with me, the same thing.
I put it in a luggage, put itdownstairs and then, if I feel
like, oh you know, I want a longdress or whatever, I want to.

(15:35):
You know, when you want to go toa wedding or something and
you're like, oh, I want a fancydress, I'm like, okay, let me go
downstairs see what I have, andthen, if I, don't I usually
forget about those, though, likethe ones you put in the
suitcase.
Yes, yeah, so my rule isactually I learned this from my
aunt is that if I didn't go backto that box in a year time,
that box has to go.

(15:55):
So if I don't like I, if Idon't have, if I don't go back
in it, sometimes two years.
But if I don't go back in twoyears because um time I start
out like I don't even open thatluggage so yeah, um, but so
that's my thing too.
I would love to do that.
One thing I'm really reallyexcited about is, um, I want to

(16:17):
start traveling again.
I think I got hit by the travelbug this year, traveling a lot.
Me and my husband keep talkingabout you know what?
We're not like.
We can't.
If we don't find babysitters,it's okay, you go, I'll come
back.
I go, you come back, I'm goingto switch.
So we'll see how that goes.
I want to travel a lot.

(16:38):
I want to travel a lot.
I want to go back to school.
I'm true, in school, I know,but I signed up for another
degree I just enrolled intoanother program mashallah,
mashallah.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
I wish I had that uh no, you don't understand school,
are you?

Speaker 3 (16:53):
gonna be.
Is there like a timeline?
I know because I'm curious nowbecause I think ever since we
are started this podcast, you'vebeen in school, yeah, this
whole time, yes, betweenundergrad.
So how many degrees you have?

Speaker 2 (17:05):
now, so I I basically have my MBA now okay and then I
am going.
I'm in my second year of mywell, I'm going to start my
second year um this Decemberfinishes.
I'm going to start my secondyear of my master's in clinical
psychology, but it's anaccelerated course, so by the
time I'm done with this year,the next year it starts being um

(17:27):
, a quote like um a thing, uh,what's called uh, cohort, not
cohort, it's a combinationclasses of phd classes and
master's classes so technically,I'm going to be a phd program
next year in clinical psych, inclinical psych, okay.

(17:47):
And then this semester Ienrolled in a master's in human
resource uh management, uhprogram.
So I my eyes Management program.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
So I, my eyes are puffy.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
So it's like three different programs Three
different programs yeah somaster's in human resource
program.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
And.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I should be starting that In the fall of In the fall
of this year.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
What brought?
What brought about the humanresources?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well, I thought I was going to fail out of this class
.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
So I was like Plan B, action B and then I was like,
oh, but now you're passing, doyou still want to do human
resources?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
because I I also have been thinking a lot about like
going to a different country andliving in a different country,
um the more, especially kids.
My kids are going to school andI have been having nightmares
about school shootings and so onand so forth in the states.
So I want to make sure I raisemy kids somewhere else.

(18:46):
And living like being in Medinafor 10 days.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
It was like this is what you need to be.
This is where I want to be, so.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I want to.
I want stuff that's travelable.
Like you know, I want a degreethat I can.
So I hear you yeah so um I,when I was in Makkah, I was
doing a lot of research on likebusiness, like um jobs that, uh,
you know I can do for expats,yeah, and so human resource was
a lot.
There was a lot of thought uh,obviously psych, but psych, I'm

(19:15):
probably going to be in schoolfor the next five years.
Five to six years so, um, I'mjust like until this comes and I
can use that to like you know,travel and work.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, no, I think I think you'd like it.
I think, family, what?
Like raising a family?
Probably Saudi Arabia is thebest place you can raise your
kids.
Yeah, yeah, it's such a like, awholesome environment yeah,
definitely it was.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
It was a whole new experience of peace for me.
I, my brain was quiet, I and Iloved, like our medina does that
to you medina.
I loved.
Medina was like I.
The only way I can explain it islike I remember the first and

(19:59):
if people feel some type of wayabout this, I don't know, but
like the first time when I was akid, when I went to the Redawa
and there was this feeling ofRaha, like going from Addis
Ababa to the Redawa, at thattime it was very different.
It was like the Redawa peoplewere just Raha, they just moved
and like they kind of floated,felt like yeah and yeah, and you

(20:20):
hear like there's there were somany masjids around and you
just hear the adhan, you know,and everybody just wore hijab
and it was like, or like youknow, the fota and they had
their, the shita, and it justfelt so like one, you know, and
warm and warm too, and at thisphysically, what, real, what,

(20:41):
what?
But warm metaphorically andwarm too but um, and so when I
went, when I was in medina,actually I I can genuinely say,
because normally when I walkinto a room here I am very much
aware of my race I'm very muchaware of my religion.

(21:02):
I'm very much scanning the roomto see who's an ally and who's
foe.
I am choosing my words to see,um, like, how I can get my point
across without tipping some,you know, some sort of um racial
line or some sort of racialline or some sort of whatever
you know, because I just want todo my job and get out of there

(21:24):
Right.
So, being there, I honestly cansay I experienced, like Malcolm
X's experience of like notseeing people through color and
like just being able to interactwith people um and and having
experiences um humanity tohumanity and like humans to

(21:46):
humans, and it was just so I Idon't know, it was so beautiful.
I remember seeing a bunch ofcelebrities there, like you know
.
We saw um sean king and we sawlike oh, did you see sean king?

Speaker 1 (21:57):
because I was.
I was watching his live whenyou guys were there.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, yeah, so jaylan actually they took pictures and
they had a whole conversationas he, like I saw his wife, but
I I didn't even feel the need.
Normally I'm like, oh, I wantto like.
I'm not a celeb person, but I'mmore of like oh, I want to like
, yeah, especially like someonelike shankin.
I want to like exchange ideas,I have thoughts and you're just
too focused on your own.

(22:21):
Yeah, and I saw some thesupermodel that was there and I
was like wow, that's so cool.
And I think it.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
I think it does that like medina, like because it's
but in makkah as well too.
But I think you feel it alittle bit more in medina I
think, you feel?

Speaker 3 (22:35):
yeah, excuse me, you feel prophet's dua for medina as
exactly how you imagine that tobe, and more when you're there
physically, because, first ofall, medina is very slow, very
calming and very like you gowith the flow and it's it's.
People are also a little bitdifferent in medina but, then
you go to makkah.
It just feels like everything'srushed, yeah, hustle and bustle

(22:57):
it's like, it's like, it's likethat, and even like in the Kaaba
areas and the malls there'smalls literally across the
street, yeah, and so it's like,yeah, I do feel the same way
about Medina.
Medina is the way ProphetMuhammad sallallahu wasallam
said is how much the heart ofMedina, of the people of Medina,
is way different, and you don'tget annoyed with it too like no
, because.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I think, like in reality, when I was there,
because it was slow and like andstuff like that, I kind of got
really annoyed because, comingfrom here, where, like it's,
you're going, going and you knowyou go to like a what is it
called?
Um, like a queue or whatever,and you want everything to go
and it's like just like notreally orderly, it's not it's

(23:38):
there's no lines.
Yeah, there's no lines and stufflike that.
And so I think for the first umweek, and I like it really hit
me hard, but in Medina it's likeyou, it's just, it's a heart
you literally let it go yeah,you let go of your personality,
you're like.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's how I felt.
I felt like um in Medina, the,the place, the soil challenged
you to be a better version ofyourself.
Yeah, this like the soil.
I say the soil because each theminute you get in, yeah, it's
just, there's just I don't know,and I'm not like rainbows and
butterflies.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
It is actually.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
It really feels so calming, feels so serene.
It feels like you're so clearabout your purpose.
There you get a lot of clarity.
Yeah, a lot of clarity.
You don't care, I didn't carewho was wearing what, I didn't
care.
You know, normally people arelike so-and-so, has something

(24:42):
fly and also the feeling ofbeing around people that have
the gloves, and you're just likethis is not weird.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
No, sorry, it's okay, you okay, yeah, I'm okay.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
I don't know why I'm beating your arm.
You want my water?

Speaker 1 (24:58):
No, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
You want my water?

Speaker 1 (24:59):
No, no, it's okay.
You want my coffee?
I'm okay.
No, I'm okay, you sure.
Yeah, I'm getting over like asore throat type of thing.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
I was not going to drink after you, but I was going
to give it to you.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
I was like do you really want me to drink your
water?
Yes, you can drink it, I justcan't.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Thank you so much for sharing, Bonnie, about your
future endeavors and experiencesand the things that you have
planned to do, and it soundslike mashallah, like everything
else you're going to doincredible.
Well, and I think it's going tobe amazing and if Shiro sounds
like your goals for next year,90-day period is probably going
to be successful.

(25:35):
Yes it's going to start in aweek, but think the the
commitment that you have to that90 days is gonna be the things
that's gonna drive you to stayconsistent with it.
So I'm inshallah, I'm gonna.
I'm looking forward to youtelling us an update on how you
do with that too you gotta keepme accountable, I gotta keep you
accountable, I got you, I gotyou um, so we can definitely do
that, so anyway.

(25:56):
So in that case, what are weshifting to today's
conversations?

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh, so are we doing the first thing or the second
thing, either, or whatever youwant to do, bonnie?
Oh, I'm excited about it Allright.
So you know, our producer waskind of talking about how we
haven't talked about how we metthe first impression, first
impressions, first impressionshow we met First impression,
first impression, firstimpressions, and so I thought

(26:21):
that was a really cool thing totalk about what our first
impressions of each other was,and then we should get into what
we plan on doing In our nextendeavor.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
As difficult conversations you can start,
bonnie, you seem really excited.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, I know.
No, I just I genuinely thinkthat, like first, I'm someone
that goes with my gut often, andnormally things go south when I
don't go with my gut.
So I think that was the habit.
I think your work had a youcame and coated candy like I
can't.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I think you guys both did, because everybody it's an
introvert thing, I feel likekind of well, no, I mean.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
What I mean is that, like everybody that I knew at
the time was talking so greatlyabout the habe, the habe was
like the poster child.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Oh, my god, I'm so sorry no, no, no, that is so
that they put me on that doesn'texist.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
You never failed, though, that's so, that's great
you.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Please don't say that you never failed that, but you
guys have known each other.
How long have you guys knowneach other Since I came to this
country?

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
So that's why I'm always third wheeled.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Where I wouldn't be like, where I can't say that, so
where?
Okay, karla.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
That's a lie.
There's a lot of history.
We both were like I'm the thirdexactly, there's a lot of
history here though you know,and I think there's like a
cultural context too for youguys a little bit maybe not
really, because I am an addisgirl and I'm hotter, but I'm an
addis girl.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
My personality is more I feel like, even though
her families are like part ofher families, are grown like her
aunt and uncles, like allraised in Addis and grow up
there, there's part of them arehotter too, but because they
grow up in Addis, there's a lotmore attachment to Addis than it
is hotter.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, like that's your first identity, yeah as
like at this site or whateveryeah.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
I mean yeah, yeah, because we it's.
It's different when you meetsomeone from and their aroma is
just so different.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, I think you immediately become friends
cousins and, uh, this and stufflike that, but yeah, the little
impression of seem like they're.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
They're kind of stuck up no, is that what it is like?
No, I at least.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
People are not compared to other, or almost,
though, like in relation toother I mean, it depends.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
It depends, all right , like it depends on, like I'm
gonna have.
Yeah, you know like well, youknow that kind of like well, I
think actually at these people,that are these people I knew and
these people I grew up around,right, uh, because I can't speak
for everybody, but it at least.
People tend to be a lot moreopen-minded and we are.

(29:05):
Oromuma is like it's.
It's here because most of thetime we had to like we, we code,
switch and we play, run ourfirst languages and all of these
things?
yeah, because some of them don'teven know Oromo.
That's what I'm saying.
That's why I think it's sowrong.
But then when anybody saysanything about like Oromo people

(29:28):
, we're there to pop off likewe're more, but you don't know
the language that's not ourfault, though it's the same as
raising kids in the west thatdoesn't speak Oromo and the
thing is too I don't know how itis now right, because I'm like
20-something years removed fromthere now, but when I was there,
amharic was the workinglanguage.

(29:50):
It's the main language.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
It's the main language, it's the working
language, it's like English.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes and it was equated with intelligence.
So if you wanted your kids todo well in school, you had to
teach them Amharic and they hadto be fluent in Amharic, and
there was a big bias against theaccent of Oromo.
And not just Oromo, if I haveto be honest in any other
language.
So if you spoke Amharic, withhaving a different accent, you

(30:19):
were considered to be illiterateNot someone that doesn't speak
the language, but illiterate.
Yeah, so you know if yourparents were born there.
I mean not born there, but ifyour parents raised you there.
They want the best for you.
Therefore, they focused on yourAmharic, you know learning and
Amharic studies more than andthey normally used Oromifa to
hide things from you.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
So you learned Oromifa in that way.
So they spoke automifa in thehouse to kind of so uh, but that
, but you just that part, yeah,that part.
I feel like I need so much timeand energy to process it?

Speaker 2 (30:53):
yeah, it's a process, and I'm that also gives you,
because you are your best whenyou are.
Always your back is against thewall and you're fighting for
something.
So when people think you'reless than.
That's why I say these peopleat Oromoma is like in our gut,
in our blood, hopefully,hopefully a little bit of that
has changed.
I was saying a statement.
First of all, let me finish mystatement, hopefully a little
bit of that has changed no yeah,but what I was going to say was

(31:16):
that we are, we feel outOromoma very much.
We are very protective of it.
We fight for it all the timeversus people like you that grew
up in there.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
But I will say that I mean, I didn't grow up back
home, though I think I left whenI was like five.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
So I'm saying, yeah, like when people, when you grow
up, even here, if you thinkabout it, like if you grew up in
Minnesota and you see you'reused to seeing a lot of hijabis,
a lot of verses yeah, versussome other place, yeah you don't
appreciate it as much as youknow, or the comfort of that
yeah so yeah, but so ourexperiences, our personalities
are a little bit different than,but you know, obviously we're a
little bit more closer becausewe're there's a harder side and

(31:56):
there's a family link right yes,yeah, yeah yeah.
So what I was gonna say was thatthe habe was very much like oh,
it's so so great, habe is theperson to be.
Everybody loved habe and I waslike, oh, that's so cool and I I
didn't think I was gonna likeher.
And then I met her and I justloved her and I was like, oh my
god, and I used to telleverybody, can I say this, okay?

(32:16):
So I used to tell everybody,like when everybody, because I I
had a lot of friends, for somereason I was friends with the
people older than me, um and um,I they would be like, oh, that
would be so pretty, like let meholla at her.
I was like, nah, she's way outof your league, bro.

(32:36):
I was like she's way out ofyour league, like.
So I had, I had like thispedestal for the hubby and
alhamdulillah, I feel likesometime you made people fall in
love with me because the wayyou talk about me to them I
swear, I swear.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
And the people that she hanged out with, I'm like
they already have this thingwhen I meet them and I'm like
you don't even know me, why areyou, but like you do that a
really good job with that yeahwith, like all of your friends,
if you like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
If I don't like them, I do that too.
No, no, I think yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
So I mean back then it was just like weird for me,
because I'm like I'm alreadytimid and very quiet person and
then all of a sudden, likethere's people or bubbly friends
are like yeah, it's like howokay.
And then, and then sheintroduced me and she says those
same thing and I'm like that'swhy they're like they're acting
this way.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, I feel like the only time that I really was
like was I had a crush onsomebody and that person had a
crush on her, and then I wouldbe in the same room together
because like no, and then Iwould be like they're talking
too much and I didn't know thatand that's weird.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
But then eventually, the more the person got
comfortable with me, the more Irealized like, oh, I need to
distance myself from this placeyeah, I thought it was their
friend, yeah, and I'm just kindof like, okay, come in, hey,
hello, kind of thing.
Yeah, then I'm like, oh, thisperson is getting too
comfortable here, so I need toleave.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Then I leave and go downstairs usually.
Yeah, I think it goes back tothe guys and girls friends thing
we talked about.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Well, no, that was an exception to the rule.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
But, the.
Apsuro there's no such thing.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
I mean, I mean Haya, haya, go ahead.
I mean you can talk about this.
What was your first impressionof me?
First impression of Apshido, sowhen?
Because I met you through myhusband's family, husband's
family.
Yeah, and also the same thingEverybody was talking about.
Oh, apshido is Miss, okayEverything.
She's so zen, she's so chilland she's so like she just says

(34:35):
okay to everything she never,like, argues back.
She never like okay toeverything.
She never like argues back, shenever like turns into.
I don't know if that's a goodthing or a bad thing.
No, they said it for adults,for older people.
That's the best thing ever.
They see you as like thisproblem solver.
That doesn't make anything abig deal, that's just like
solves the problem it rolls off,rolls off your back, kind of
thing so I was like, oh, she'sso cool, la, la, la la.

(34:58):
And then uh, but then I had nointerest in making friendship
because I was like I.
I was told like in-laws arein-laws yeah, like yeah till
this day I don't think Iactually meet.
She's the only person that I'mclose to from yeah, and it's,
and it's weird too.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
No, it's not weird, but it's just like I don't know,
and they're like your friend,that like your friend yeah, no,
no, no, like now I'm like, okay,yeah, she is, yeah, well are
they mad that they're notfriends with them too.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
No, I don't think it's that way I think I think
there is there's aspects of like, because first it was like oh,
absharharo is their Apsharo, andnow she's my Apsharo, and then
I don't know how, if that's thatis that a healthy jealousy,
then at the same time, there arepeople I think the Apsharo is
literally the exception.
I don't and not.

(35:51):
There's nothing wrong.
Everybody's amazing, greatpeople you know, I my
personalities.
I'm very protective of likerelationships and the way you
protect relationships.
Sometimes it's not, is notgetting too comfortable with
each other and having that lineof respect.
So I want to make sure I do that, because you don't want to get
into murky waters with in-laws.
So I met.

(36:13):
My husband and her husband arealso really close friends, so
they invited us for dinner totheir apartment.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
It was early on, right Early on, when you guys
got married.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, yeah, we were in our apartment too, yeah.
And then I met you and I didn'tput two and two together, I
didn't put the Apsuro that I washearing about and then the
Apsuro that I met two together.
I didn't put the upshur that Iwas hearing about and then I'm
sure that I met, so, um, theperson that I met I was like you
actually reminded me of I thinkI told you this before you

(36:46):
reminded me of this lady um thatI really, really loved in in
kenya.
She was like so sweet, she waslike a little bit like she was
just I don don't know, she wasjust so cool.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
So cool.
I think it's rose coloredglasses.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
No, no, no, no, she means real.
I told you then and I rememberI was like, wow, she looks like
this lady so much and you weretalking and you're so Zen and I
I was very careful and and thenI just kept pushing because I
was like I have no interest.
And then you invited us to.
When you came back we were atour house, I think.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
When you came back, because I think we met and then
I left.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, we met and you left and I left.
Yeah, and when you came back,it was like a year, like almost
two years in between, yeah, andthen, when you came, back.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
You invited us to you like I'm absolutely craving
lobsters, so let's go havelobsters at shake shack.
Oh, yes, I remember that.
Yeah, so we remember, isn'tthat great?
But yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
And then I was like oh yeah, yeah and I was like, oh
she, but okay, cool, like let'sgo.
And then you invited ussomething else again and then I
was like, okay, cool, I wasstill very like I don't know if
I yeah I was very cautious, um,and then I was like, and then I
don't know what happened.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
To be honest, after that, I think I think what it
was is um, I was also cautiousand the thing is that I don't I
don't necessarily go 10 toesdeep with people.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
I don't know.
You know, like I, it's likewhat the sheikh said last time
we met him.
Like you know the Arab, likeyou have to let things grow,
yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
I don't like first impression or not.
First impression I'd be like,oh yeah, she seems like a cool
person and you know my husbandand your husband are friends.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
But like I didn't have like a good or a bad, like,
oh, she was good or she was bad.
Oh my, when you met me.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yeah, when I met you, is that just her or just this?
How you do with everybody?
I think that's just how I do.
So you start with neutral andthen you're allowed to think, to
develop with you yeah, but youdidn't start neutral.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
You got to neutral, I got to neutral.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Let's tell the truth oh okay, I missed out hard no,
but I.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
but I think it was like um, she came with
preconceived notions.
It wasn't really preconceivednotions, but it was just like,
oh, like he married like Bonnieand she used to be a model.
Yeah, like da-da-da-da, that'swhat they were saying.
Yeah, or whatever.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Like I think, Bonnie, you are so misunderstood.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, because there's a, it's okay, but misunderstood
.
Yeah, because there's there's athere it's okay.
But yeah, go ahead, finish yourthought it's not okay.
No, no, no, no.
I am so like, okay, okay withit now because, it's not okay
that that happened, but that I'mso okay like it doesn't bother
me anymore because yeah I think.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
But I don't even remember like where I got it
from.
It was just like in the ether,like it was just there I'm
talking about the ether, noteven the ether that.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Can you guys please quantify what you guys are
talking about so that peopleknow like, no like as your
personality, right, youpersonality like, because you're
you're bubbly and you're likevery friendly and very like.
That's what happened.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
That's what happened.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
It's okay, like it's because you're friendly.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
You're open.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
And you're like very hospital and like you bring
everybody in.
Yeah, there's an assumptionthat everybody has without
knowing you.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, and I think that's what I mean by that.
When you meet people and Ithink we talked about this when
we went on our trip to Cancun, Idon't know if I remember like I
think for you as a firstimpression, like you would tell
people you give a lot of peopleammunition.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Oh yeah, because I'm just like, I'm open, I'm just
yeah you're very open.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and sometimes I think that can be
taken as like, oh, like, can you, like she tell me a, b and c or
whatever blah blah, you knowwhat I mean, yeah does that make
sense kind of no, no, just talkfreely I'm yeah she's like why
are you filtering?
just say I'm not filtering,though.
All I'm saying is that, like,okay, all I knew was that he,

(40:55):
like my husband's friend,married um, you, a model, a
model, or like you know somebodythat um does poetry slams.
Yes, actually, the first time Idid see you was at mass ikna,
where you recited the hijabpoetry.
Yeah, um, but then, and I don'tthink you had got married to
your husband yet, no, and sothen, after the wedding, I put

(41:16):
two and two together.
I was like, okay, that was heryou know, what I mean yeah, yeah
, so that was the firstimpression and then, and two
together, I was like, okay, thatwas her.
You know what I mean, yeah,yeah.
So that was the firstimpression.
And then I met you and I waslike, okay, yeah, she seems cool
.
And then we became friends.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
I swear to God Such a lie I swear to God I wouldn't
lie.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
I wouldn't lie.
Okay, anyway, anyway, but yeah,anyway, but yeah, but yeah.
Then we, then we became friendsand now it's like I don't know
and, honestly, like you know, Ithis is like new territory of
having like really good friendsin my 30s that, like I know

(42:02):
closer to you guys, becausewe've kind of created this
comfortability and like safespace of, like you know, um,
sharing things and stuff likethat.
And I think, and I think that,like a lot of people, maybe even
in my community, I'm just, I'mjust really like closed off.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like I don't.
I have very few people I wouldsay in my life that I I'm super,
super open with does it come?

Speaker 2 (42:22):
you know, I'm, I'm like that.
No, but that came from theether, responding to my openness
no, I think.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
I just I think that we went um, I kind of explained
some of this in our like seasona couple of seasons ago that,
like, growing up, like in ourfamily, there's just this big
fear of like, like friendship,and that there's no such thing
as like a, like, a really deepfriendship, yeah, that you can

(42:53):
have.
You know, um, and like Iremember my mom always saying
like, um, she would say toherself like oh, I don't need
friends.
Or like you know, like I coulddo it all by myself.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
And like you know um, by the way, this, that episode
is season two and season three,so if you want to listen to the
friendship, episodes yeah, so soyeah, yeah, no, I, I that's.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
I feel like you guys kind of came in like with that
in mind, of like when you guyswere navigating the world.
You're like, oh you know, Iwant to make sure I create
boundaries and barriers so thatI protect myself.
I was just like here I am, takeme take me as I am and I was
like you know what?
No, not everybody gets access,not everybody deserves access to

(43:39):
my personality and who I am, soI can mirror whatever know what
?
no, not everybody gets access,not everybody deserves access to
my personality and who I amyeah, so I can mirror whatever
the heck you want me to mirrorand to like feel comfortable
with you to know who I am yeahyou know what I mean.
So um, there's a lot of like.
I actually was having aconversation with somebody about
like, uh, my um, but before,yeah, like, about like what they
thought and so on and so forth.

(44:00):
And there's this idea and Ithink this is a really good time
because I tell you to say,because I feel like there is a
learning lesson here where wedemonize and I use that word
very, very carefully people thatdon't wear hijabs and we equate
that with palaguma, yeah, um,and we equate that with palaguma

(44:25):
, yeah, and with me.
Anyone that that has known mein my life knows like I was the
prude person in my family and myfriend group.
I was the person that they theywere more like afraid to tell
like what if they were doingsomething like not okay yeah,
than their own parents.
Like my friend tiff, she used tobe like Bonnie.
You're so much more stricterthan my mom, like I was that
person from middle school tillyou know, whenever and so, and

(44:46):
there's also this concept, thisidea that, like, my husband made
me religious, which is like bs,you know mashallah, he's like
good on his deen and everything,but my relationship with Islam
was like there when I was backat home in Ethiopia.
But there's this assumptionthat because A I was modeling

(45:06):
and B I didn't wear hijab andyou know whatever, or I didn't
talk in an immure like soft,voice.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
I will say, though, I did have a friend in high
school that was like that didn'twear hijab at all and like I
was full niqabi.
Yeah, and I do understand whatyou're saying.
Where like people are?
They automatically judge you.
You know, even though, like myfriend, she just like she was
single mom, she was much morelike she knew a lot more Quran

(45:38):
than even me, you know, and Ithink she got like that snap
judgments about her, which isn'tfair because, like one day, her
mom had picked her, picked usup from school, and then she
commented she's like look, I'mlooking at shaitan standing next
to our first bully starts athome.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
yeah, yeah, so I completely understand that.
So I think that's one thing asa community Allah has put me and
I feel like I'm so okay with myexperience because my judgment
of people, I'm the mostnon-judgmental person when it
comes to this.
I have met so many non-hijabisthat have a prayer rug in their

(46:18):
purse and a Quran in their pursedo you think I'm judgmental?
I don't think I don't, I don'tknow you can't, you can't.
You have your moments and it'snot.
It's not your person, it's,it's more of the things you are
programmed with yes, I love thatyou said that it's a

(46:39):
programming, and I do see youdeconstruct that in your head
when you are in the middle of aconversation.
Yeah, it's always oh I.
So I think your settings is ajudgmental, but you get on on.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Reset, master reset but no, but I think you judge me
too, like because sometimes,like we'll have a conversation,
and I think you think that I'mjudging you because you're not
quote-unquote as whatever youknow as religious yeah, that's
what I think, because sometimeslike we'll have a conversation
and I think you make it like,you make my, like reservations

(47:12):
about Dean or like about youknow, like a certain way that
you're taking things when it'ssometimes it's not necessarily
the case, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
I think, okay, I can hear that, but can I explain it?
Yeah, go ahead, and I'm notlike devaluing your experience
with me or anything.
I just think, because myrelationship with hijabis is
completely different, I alwaysput hijabis in a pedestal and I
think I've talked about thisbefore, like I, which is why
when I wore hijab, I took itvery seriously.

(47:41):
I was never hijab for Allah andpants for Abdullah.
I was always like, like, like.
I took it very seriously becauseI thought I saw it like being a
hijabi and wearing a hijab andsomeone that is like being an
ambassador of the dean, so youhave to conduct yourself in a
certain way.
So I always put being a hijabiwith being um, religiously savvy

(48:03):
and religiously aware and wise,and all of that in the same
scale.
So most of the time, if you dosay something, um, and I'm like
there is a possibility, I equateit to deen, but it's not
because I think, um, you are.
I don't think it comes fromjudgment.
I think it comes from myperception of like your islam
uma, like your muslim uma, likeI.

(48:24):
I'm like, oh, she's so muchmore which is unfair, yes, yes,
but I'm just saying it's notnecessarily a negative thing,
it's more of like.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
I just assume, and I've said this most can we just
normalize that we do all judge?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah , I just I'm saying that I just
normally put hijabis and peoplethat and anyone that I'm in a
room with in a more, uh,knowledgeable pedestal than I do
I am.
So I just I, I just kind oflike, oh, she's probably doing
this because, and so it could bea judgment, yes, but yeah, not
like, oh, my god, she's a hijabiand she's judging me and

(48:59):
therefore I'm going to judge herlike not, yeah, yeah, oh, what
were we talking about?
You didn't tell me yourimpression of me or us.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
You're a kid.
When I mentioned you're a kid,you're a sneaky kid, kind kid,
aw, you're so cute Was a veryadultified kid.
So you had to be an adult whenyou didn't have to.
So I don't have anything.
Okay, what about her?

(49:27):
She was very timid and veryclose-off's, as simple as I can
get very timid, very um,suspicious of people and but
mashallah, she's kind too.
Oh yeah, her kindness shows upwithout even even trying to be
kind.
I think that's innately builtwithin you, yeah, and but I do.
She's very thoughtful too.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, very thoughtful , very she is, and I think
that's innately built within you, yeah, and, but I do she's very
thoughtful too.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Yeah, very thoughtful , very she is, and I think the
more I spend time with you, themore I see it vivically what
that reservation is.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Right Say more Like.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
I can see why you have reservation and I
understand it, but I'm nottrying to change your mind about
it.
Right, and I understand it, butI'm not trying to change your
mind about it.
Right, I think we talked aboutfriendships in the two season
and where a program for you comefrom, and the thing is that I
get it At the same time.
You're kind of like slowlycoming out of that shell too,

(50:23):
but it's going to take you timefor you to be in a place where,
like, let me let all my guardsdown.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Oh, okay.
So I remember a couple ofcouple conversations ago I don't
know which one, but you hadsaid that, like if somebody has
their guards down, I'muncomfortable with that I am
okay.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
I am because that tells me that I can't.
Okay, so I'm going to betransparent.
Okay, when I, when I seeindividuals have guard up, it
tells me that I also have tokeep my guard up.
It also tells me that Iquestion whether I feel safe
enough with this person.
And for me, at this stage of mylife, emotional safety is my

(51:04):
number one criteria ofrelationship, meaning that I can
say what I need to say to youand you don't look for
misunderstanding based on yourown experiences.
You try to be curious with meand try to understand where I'm
coming from, versus making anassumption about what I said and
kind of write me off of it,right?
One of the things that wetalked about is like, how do we
give each other grace in theconflict situation?

(51:27):
Is that's what it is?
So what I'm realizing?
That emotional safety is likenot negotiable in relationship.
For me, in friendships and theolder I see that in like I come
with something and if I feellike that was not received very
well, then I kind of gobackwards.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
How is that negotiated, though?
Because I think, like I think,for me it's like initial, it
depends, you know.
So I think in its situation bysituation.
So how would you like gauge ifsomebody is being completely
like guarding or like open?

(52:05):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
Open is how curious they are with me and how curious
they are with themselves.
Open mean asking themselvesquestions, constantly evolving,
constantly re-evaluating, and Isense there's level of
accountability, acknowledgement,introspection, like they don't
stray away from conflict andemotions.
Right those things doesn't?

Speaker 1 (52:28):
it's not a fear thing for them, and so it's not yeah,
I'm, yeah, I just, I just Ithink it's not my strongest suit
.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
I would say emotions and like yeah, yeah, because I
get really annoyed.
I'm very, I'm very sensitiveperson.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Yeah very both of you are.
I think both of you are verysensitive.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Emotions annoy me.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
They do.
I'm sorry.
I'm a highly sensitive person,yeah, and I recognize that.
And I used to really stray awayfrom it because I used to be
made fun of for that by lovedones and relationships and
people misunderstanding theirsensitivities.
And so, because I know I'msensitive, the emotional safety
attached to that sensitivityRight.

(53:10):
And so, because I know I'msensitive, the emotional safety
attached to that sensitivityright.
I know me enough to know thatwhere my sensitivity is accepted
, where my sensitivity is goingto be bullied, right.
So I no longer accept beingdismissed for my sensitivity,
right.
And I no longer accept that inany way, whether it's my mother,
I no longer accept that Becauseif that's what you're going to

(53:31):
do to me, I'm going to take astep back and you do you there,
even if it's my mother.
Because for me it's that Ican't mask not being sensitive.
I'm an emotional person and Ilove that about me.
Why do I need to kind of shrinkmyself for the other people to
accept me?

Speaker 2 (53:50):
and right now is in like it's such a great place,
but it's like relationships isgreat if it works, yeah, yeah,
it's also okay if it doesn'tyeah yeah yeah, so yeah, yeah
yeah, I think, I think if Icould just add one thing about
the habit, I think, um, like Isaid about the fact that you
know how I experience, if Icould just add one thing about
the habit, I think, like I said,about the fact that you know

(54:11):
how I experienced what Iexperienced and therefore it has
made me, like, less judgmentaland enough people and so on and
so forth, I think yoursensitivity and your experience
with that, I think and not tomake it about me, but like even
anyone that you I'm an exampleof that, make it about me, but

(54:32):
like even anyone that you did,I'm an example of that like it
had made you someone with somuch compassion for anyone that
I, you were like a lifeboat forme for a very long time.
You know like, so I, a lotdoesn't put us through things
for nothing.
I think it's just likesometimes we, um, we experience
things, so we know how peopleare.
You know, like we can actuallyrelate and um yeah.

(54:55):
So I think that that wholeexperience, I think it might
have contributed to the factthat you're one of the most
compassionate.
You are compassionate people, Iknow yeah, like you're a big
pumping heart walking around100%.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
I know and I think yeah and and you know, with your
therapist and everything,you're definitely like working
through a lot of stuff that wehad shared and stuff.
Um, and I think for me, likebecause I grew up in such a non
like emotionally charged house,you know like we just you just

(55:30):
got over it.
You know, like you, I thinkApsharo you don't give yourself
credit.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
You think so, I, I think so yeah, no, I think, I
think you process differentlyyeah.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
So I think where my comfort, like comfortability,
comes from is that like, yes,you, you are 100% entitled to
your own emotions, um, but Ifeel like you have to process
that yourself.
Like you, like you can't expectme to watch you through it,
yeah, or like I don't know whatI'm trying to say, but like, not

(56:03):
, like it's not myresponsibility.
Like you, you are, like you areentitled to your emotions, but
don't expect me to um suffer theconsequences of those emotions.
Yeah, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (56:18):
like okay um, it's not the person that you call if
you're having emotions and youhaven't processed through them
yet.
Right, is that true?
I?

Speaker 1 (56:28):
feel like she, she will have a hard time yeah,
because, like, I will, like, Iwill tell you, like, do a, b and
c, like you know what I mean.
Like, why are you complicatingit?
Yeah, problem so much like butthat's generally everybody,
unfortunately that's not true?

Speaker 2 (56:44):
that's not true.
You, you sit with people.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
You're like I sit with people because I know what
it feels like when people aretrying to problem solve for me,
and I don't want anybody tosolve my problems.
Yeah, I think a lot of timepeople want to problem solve
their stuff while they havesupport to solve it with.
Not that support is going tosolve their problem.
It's like let's say, forexample, I have a car issue.

(57:07):
I don't want you to come fix mycar.
I want you to come sit with meat the garage, with me while my
car gets fixed.
I want you to pick me up whenmy car is fixed so I can go pick
it up.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
People just that I can do.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Yeah, but what I'm saying is like If you're crying
about the fact that your carbroke down, like hurling that
emotion at me, or like you know,like just how do you reassure
your kiddos?

Speaker 3 (57:32):
no, she's figuring it out I'm figuring that okay,
because you have one of thoselike you have me one of your
kids.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Usually the dad, my husband, deals with her, you
know and my oldest.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
We click you're like okay, yeah, you're fine you,
because I know me and father isvery sensitive.
We like emotion and re likereassure.
Yeah, that's why You're likeokay, yeah, you're fine, because
I know me and Fati are verysensitive.
We like emotion and reassure.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yeah, that's why we're like fire.
I mean it's a work in progress.
It's a work in progress.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
I think that's good.
That's the whole thing aboutfriendship, right?
You grow, you learn each otherand you try to meet each other's
needs, based on everybody, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
but then I feel like there's a difference between
having emotion and then justhaving it run you as well.
Like what does that mean?
Having it like every, likeevery decision, or whatever it's
like?

Speaker 2 (58:19):
I don't know um, you want to like reiterate that,
like re-say that, like?
Okay, because I I think I knowwhat you're saying, but what
you're saying is not what you'retrying to say.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
I love that.
Okay, what do you?
What is she okay?

Speaker 1 (58:38):
yeah what do you think?

Speaker 2 (58:39):
I'm saying, I think again, if I'm right, what I
think you're saying is that it'syou can't process like, you
can't go through life, havingevery decision you make pass
through an emotional channel.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Pass through an emotional channel and then have
that emotion be the one thing itgoes through.
You know what I mean, becausenot every decision that you make
is an emotional decision.
Can you give me an example,like let's go back to the car

(59:15):
example.
Like, okay, your car broke down.
Okay, you know you need aproblem fixer, or you need this
problem to be fixed, you know,but like having crying about it
or whatever, whatever it's notgoing to get that done.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
right, but there's sense of experiences that happen
prior to getting the car fixed,which is the problem.
Yes, so what do you do withthat experiences?

Speaker 2 (59:40):
but she just jumps.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Yeah, fix it to fixing yeah, fix it first and
then you can deal with it.
You know, because my like how Ioperate is, whatever emotion
you have about this thing is notgonna get you to be like you
have a and you have b.
It's not gonna get you to be goto be first and then you can
circle retroactively, yeah, andthen you can go back and fix

(01:00:03):
whatever you feel about it orwhatever that's a very
interesting perspective.
You know that's not work for meI don't know that works for me
and I've lived 30 years and it'sdamn because I feel like maybe
for me and her is like I don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I understand that, and I understand because I have
like a balance over there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
Yeah, no, I think I can handle crisis, but I don't.
Because I've been through somuch of life experiences, I feel
my emotion later than I do atthe beginning.
Now I do exactly what you'resaying.
Okay, I don't cry right away.
Okay, crying actually doesn'thappen when something scary
happened for me, crying happenslater.

(01:00:51):
All of a sudden, in the middleof something else, I start
crying about the thing thathappened.
I can't relate.
It was that thing that made mecry.
But I know I'm crying aboutsomething.
So sometimes I don't evenunderstand, but because of I
would say I know you guys don'tlike this, but because of trauma

(01:01:12):
, I can.
Only my body, my nerve systemdoesn't go into crying goes the
same thing as you said.
It's like it feels likeeverything is a war and I have
to go fight that war battle andfigure it out how I can handle
it and then cry later.
But the crying then is comingon a different form, like either
let's say that my I'm makingcookies and my cookie was not
hot enough.
I'm crying about that, butthat's not what made me cry.

(01:01:32):
That's not the root of it.
The root of it.
The root is that I got into caraccident.
I didn't really process my caraccident and now I'm crying
about the cookie that wasn'twarm enough for me, so now I
learned to not do that because Idon't want my emotion for you
to do it in the moment.
I want you to instead of crying.
I want you to recognize thatI'm pissed about what happened.

(01:01:52):
I want to go through theemotional experiences that
happened.
I'm mad, I'm frustrated.
This is not happening for me.
Okay, now take a deep breath,go eat something, take a water,
sit down and then now let's goproblem solve.
Before I didn't have that toolsright, I suppressed the emotion
back.
Let's go solve problem and thensolve problem, and then I'm

(01:02:13):
having fighting with somebodyelse about the thing that they
didn't even do, because youdidn't go back to the emotion.
I didn't deal with the emotion.
So it's.
All of this is lesson learned,but in a sense of being young
again, adultified children arealways going to go into problem
solving because that's a toolthat we learn.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah, we don't know how to sit with our feelings.
I'm a little bit different inthe sense that I would cry when
I need to cry, when something ishappening, but then, in the
middle of my tears, my brain'salready coming up with the
solution.
That's very cool.
that's yeah, since I was a childand that's why one of the

(01:02:49):
things that, like um, used toirritate my little sister- is
that like she would be stuck inthe emotion, right going through
it, and then I would just belike I would be right there,
like crying with her feeling,her feelings, our feelings
together, and then I would just,um, I would just like, by the
time I'm done crying, I alreadyhave like, okay, we should do

(01:03:12):
this and that and the other, andwe should move this way, okay
and then so, and I think that, Ithink it's a survival apparatus
I think it is um, but likethat's just how I like, even if
it's it's something minute, it'slike um, um, you know, like I
got in a fight with my husbandor whatever
whatever I would like, feel myfeelings, and then in the moment

(01:03:32):
I'm like, okay, how didliterally this is one thing that
used to happen to me in themiddle of crying and like being
sad or upset or whatever angry,I would be like, okay, what are
the parts that?
Who are you fighting right now?
What actually took place?
Uh, what did you say?
Fact checking yeah, like place.
Uh, what did you say?
Yeah, like I would be like,what did you say to ignite this?

(01:03:56):
What is your role?
I normally start in the middle,in the middle of feeling,
thinking.
I remember, literally when ourapartment times I would be like
sitting and I'll just be like,okay, you're pregnant, you are
emotional, so what is the issueright now?
Are you, are you like, is thisas big as you're trying?
You are emotional, so what isthe issue right now?
Are you, are you like, is thisas big as you're trying to make
it?
Or are you making it this bigbecause you're emotional?
Like I'll like process and he'sright there and having a

(01:04:19):
conversation and he's talkingand I'm listening to what he's
saying, but then, at the sametime, my brain is doing these
things.
Okay, what are the facts thathe's, he's he's saying that
makes sense, what are the thingsthat you're saying?
And are you saying it in a waythat actually ignites with the
way he likes to get communicatedto?
It was it's so weird, likethat's how, and even, like you
know, when I told you guys withum, something as serious as like

(01:04:41):
my son when he he had a seizurein the in the soccer field um,
jaylan called me.
I went to the field to to him.
I grabbed him.
I was like, okay, my brain ispanicking, I'm literally tears
are running down my face becausemy brain is telling me he's
dying.
He's like I, my brain just wentthere because my dark thoughts
right.
But then at the same time I waslike okay, listen for breathing

(01:05:03):
.
Okay, you're okay, he'sbreathing, he's fine.
Okay, cool, um, pulse, he, youknow, obviously he.
And okay, now, what?
What's the next thing to do?
Where?
Where did I see?
Uh, security people, yeah, whodo I?
You know?
Yeah, grab the thing, grab thekid, go.
So you're going to crisis I'mlike crisis mode, yeah, but then
I'm still shaking and feelingthe things and I could feel my
body trying to kind of like drop.

(01:05:27):
So I went into soldier standslike so you're fighting yeah, so
you're fighting the emotion.
I'm processing it, but I'macknowledging my emotions and
they said my body wants to falldown, so what can I do to keep
myself?
Up, so I literally was insoldier stands like my legs open
and I was like, okay, if I openmy legs like this and put my

(01:05:49):
arms out like that, I'm gonnahave more whatever torque
whatever strength or whateverokay, now this is happening.
He needs I literally that's howI process things in the middle.
I'm feeling the things, I'macknowledging my body, but I'm
also so so you do fighting.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
so there, you know how there's fight and flight and
freeze and fawn.
Yeah, so you do fighting.
So I do fight and freeze at thesame time, you see that.
I think I just fight yeah youjust fight.
So I fight and then it dependsif it's related to people that I
love, I will freeze.
I fight while I'm fighting, mybody's freezing slowly, the

(01:06:26):
processing slows down in thebrain.
Fighting my body's freezingslowly, the processing slows
down in the brain.
So, and then I go into funlater, yeah, after the situation
has been taken care of.
So, yeah, it's our, ourexperiences like either you
either fight, you either freeze,or you either flee, or you
either go into fun and trying tomake sure that everybody's okay
.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's the four areas thatwe do anytime emotions arises

(01:06:48):
and crisis open.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Yeah, that's why, whenever I'm tired, like
whenever the situation is solved, I am collapsed, I'm on the
ground, sleep tired Becauseyou're working hard.
My brain has a Overdrive Like Ican't even make a decision
about like water.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
I just need to shut down and sleep.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
Yeah, what are incredible ways of kind of
connecting on today's episodeand I think, but it works it
works.
Yeah, it's understandingdifferent personalities and
different experiences anddifferent ways that we all got
connected um, but I think it's agreat way to wrap up our yeah,
wrap, let's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Let's wrap up this episode by saying something
positive about each other,something that we either
appreciate or love or whatever,whatever, or what we hope.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
I'm going to go first .
I'm going to go with Bonnie andthen I'll come this direction.
I love that you're verycompassionate and you have very
like positive drive when itcomes to yourself and your
family and the.
The way that you handlemultiple things at the same time
is incredible, and it's also,at the same time, can be

(01:07:59):
frightened because I'm likebecause the frightened part for
me is, like when are you takingcare of yourself?
right, it's like I know, I knowyou and I know you're you.
I hear about your health, too,from you and I worry a lot more
about that as much as you'retrying to do all these
magnificent things like where iswhere you like?

(01:08:19):
Where do you take care of yourhealth and your mind?
And you're eating and you'resleeping and you're resting
because you're doing it,mashallah all, and so that's
probably something that I don'tknow.
You didn't ask for advice, butthat was unsolicited, by the way
.
Please, please, center you,because everything that you're

(01:08:41):
doing needs you, that's true.
And so, as far as for afshiro,I love your kindness, I love
your depth and I love that youare very calm and how to handle
things, and I also like thatyou're evolving when it comes to
a lot of the things that youusually shy away in the past
four years, but you're startingto be much more curious and
being open to things.

(01:09:02):
Slowly, but you're kind ofgetting there too, hey, hey hey,
you know, I love that you alsohave so much goals and ambition
and you're also doingmultifaceted things, just like
Bonnie, and I like that.
You guys are trying to balanceyou.
The same thing goes for Bonnie.
I'm saying to you too the partwhere is you right?
Like seriously, like you guysare doing so many great things

(01:09:26):
but you need to drink water orsomething.
So that's it Stay hydrated,sleep and do fun things, and fun
Like I don't know, don't forgetabout yourself.
Yeah, you right, because Ithink, at the end of the day,
all of those things matter andyou are the main character to
make that happen, that's true.

(01:09:47):
So I want you to think of likeI am the main character of my
life.
So for the unknown, or the maincharacter, to do justice to the
character, it needs to be ableto have that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
So, yeah, I have so many things to say, but I'll try
to keep it short.
One thing I love about Apsharois the fact that she one is she.
She's capable of anything likeliterally.
You throw anything in Apsharo'sway, she's like, okay, I got

(01:10:19):
this, I'll figure it out, andshe's just literally, she knows
everything.
Like I, literally, no, no, no,I mean.
I mean I don't mean this in thehyperbolic sense, I mean like
she, if she doesn't know it now,she will know it by the time
that you talk to her next time,which is like she figured it out
, or she doesn't like.
She's like oh, you know, you gohere and do that and you click

(01:10:42):
this button and you figure itout.
Now, like yesterday, we were,yeah, like she's so good at that
and I her.
I love the way her brain works.
Her brain is like I can do it,I, I can do the business, I can
do the IT.
She was just talking abouttaking a course about AI thing.
I'm like chat GBT, I pay $20,collage, I'm done, I don't need

(01:11:02):
to learn anything.
So I, I love that.
And then I also love the factthat she is very certain.
She's certain in who, she iscertain in where she's going
certain in what she likes andwhat she doesn't like and F the
world In the sense that, likeyou know, this is my dean, this

(01:11:24):
is my culture, this is my family, this is my friends and this is
what I abide by and everythingelse comes and goes, but that's,
that's real and that's true andI think, um, I've always
searched for that certainty andI think that's also I've said
this a lot, a lot of times likemy everyone in my circle.
I learn I wouldn't they're myteachers and I want to learn

(01:11:46):
something from and I think I'mkind of like, uh, trying to take
that and observe that, becauseI am a people pleaser and I I
just I love the fact that youare so certain and so zen and
you just don't get rattled, likeeven when you get rattled,
you're, you're rattled is likemy cool like you're so she's

(01:12:08):
just consistent and um, and whenshe loves, she loves, or she
won't tell you she loves you,but she loves you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
I do, I know you do I wouldn't be here if I did
that's there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
And then I, I also love the fact that, um you, you
tend to process other people'sthoughts and feelings, and how
the other person thinks and howthe what the other person needs,
and so on and so forth.
So, um, and what I hope for youis also, um, honestly, I just

(01:12:47):
hope, like after that, have Isaid, for you to be able to have
time to take care of yourself,to do things that you want to do
, uh, to be a little bit moreadventurous, I think um with
yourself, uh.
But yeah, I think that's that'swhat I hope for you.
I hope allah opens all thedoors that you have been
knocking on and, yeah, answersall your duas.

(01:13:10):
And for the habe, my darling, Ican't say enough positive
things about the habe.
I feel like it's this podcastactually has gotten us more in
contact, like I don't think wefought once or argued once in
like before a podcast never.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
Then we argue all the time not argue disagreement,
okay argue disagree, alldifferent ways of looking at
things.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Yeah, and I also think I I know you better now.
I I know you better in thesense because I get to see
different aspects of you.
And, um, um, like I've saidearlier, you are one of the most
compassionate.
I've always said you're one ofthe most compassionate, one of
the smartest people I know.
Um, you also are very, um,you're one of those people that

(01:14:04):
I look up to in the sense that Iwant to emulate um, in the
sense you, you have always kindof just danced to your own beat
and your own drum and I mayAllah also open the wait.
I have more.
Oh, my goodness, oh my goodness.
One thing your joy, your joy,your joy, your joy.

(01:14:25):
You just have, like, you justhave this infectious like
welcoming spirit that everyonearound you just feels so welcome
and warm and like, even whenyou're uncomfortable, people
don't walk away feeling like, oh, you know, so-and-so made me
feel very uncomfortable, or sothey just feel, wow, she's so,
she's so welcoming, she's sowarm, she's so kind.

(01:14:45):
Um, my, my husband is soprotective of her.
Like it's crazy.
I told you this, right, he'slike the habit is just so, so
musky, the habit is so nice.
I just may allah protect thehabit he he's so he always does
stuff like that.
Um, so yeah, I think I can'tsay anything in so much, but
yeah may allah open the doors toyour positive you doors you've

(01:15:07):
been knocking on.
May Allah make all the thingsthat you're concerned about Out
the window Story of the past.
I hope Allah Makes 2025 andbeyond Just ease.
Filled with ease, Filled withGreatness, lots of money, Lots

(01:15:28):
of power lots, lots of healthgood health, yes, so I just I
just wish all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Did you wagon?

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
yes, yes, you can judge me if you want to but, yes
to that um, yeah, so that's,that's what I have to say for us
.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
Well, thank you thank you for those kind words.
Of course and this has- beenGirl.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
I didn't say my piece , oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
This is a payback Payback.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Payback, payback.
Okay, I'm going to start withthe heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Um, I can feel how uncomfortable she is.
She's just like no, it's notabout uncomfortability.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
I will.
I will say that I appreciatethat.
You are the heart of this team.
Um, we, you always bring itback to like the person.
You know how the person isdoing, cause I think a lot of
times we I don't know me morethan Bonnie, I guess we think
about like the bigger picture.
You know how does this look, um, and I love that you are always

(01:16:33):
centering the person, how theperson feels, how the person
takes it.
Um, you know the traumaresponses and all that stuff, um
, and I love that you're alwaysbringing your strength of um
seeing this person whole and notnecessarily the different parts
and you know, I really doappreciate that that's actually

(01:16:55):
my life goal always see wholeperson.
Yeah, yeah, not not that likenot only the Muslim side, not
only the women's side, not onlyyou know the human side, so I
really do appreciate that andI've learned so much from you.
Um, and I'm inching towards,maybe we can meet in the middle

(01:17:16):
you know, I love that.
I don't know that I want to be,you know, all the way there.
She's not comfortable there yet, but um, I do appreciate you
and I think that you know.
I think that's that's whatcompletes our team.
You're the glue, yeah um andnow this one.

(01:17:40):
No, I will say, you know, uh,bonnie, what I do appreciate
about you is that your drive um,you're such a go-getter and you
push our team to do better,always looking at the next thing
that we can do.
You know, keeping things thatlike let's do this, and I just I

(01:18:00):
love how multi-gold you are,like faceted and you want to do
so many different things andhonestly, that's a strength,
because then it keeps us fromnot being stagnant, it pushes us
kind of outside ourcomfortability and our comfort
zones, and we definitely needthat, I think, for both of you.

(01:18:22):
I will say we just need to meeteach other in the middle, all
of us.
I think so too, and I think thatand I've said this before that
you know just giving each othergrace and kind of saying that
like, yes, I am this way and yes, you are this way, but let's
meet somewhere that we can allbalance each other out.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Now you guys see why she sits in the middle, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
Absolutely To that note.
We want to say thank you somuch to my incredible host and
so much, so much buttering today.
So I'm going to go home withthat and I hope everybody has
incredible upcoming year and Ihope this season brought you so
much joy and tears and laughterand awareness, and I think it's

(01:19:14):
a lot of a hard episode, but Ithink I love that we ended on
this episode because it's a lotlighter than everything else,
but it's been an incredibleexperience.
We did push each other outsideof our comfort zone this season
as well.
I want to be grateful.
I'm grateful for my team andI'm grateful for their kindness
and their patience, and so Ihope you'll enjoy that and

(01:19:37):
please go ahead and acknowledgeone or two person in your life
that makes you feel the same way.
So this is a difficultconversation, assalamualaikum.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
Join the conversation in the comment section or on
our Instagram page to share withus what you think.
We do not have all the answersand our biggest goal is to kick
off and get the conversationgoing.
May Allah accept our effortsand use us as catalysts for for
change.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
NBC All relation to NBC.

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