November 27, 2024 • 24 mins
In this episode of #DigicationScholars Conversations, host Kelly Driscoll speaks with Bill Torgerson, a lecturer in Rhetoric and Composition at Appalachian State University.
Bill shares his experiences before Hurricane Helene, discusses his podcast 'Torg Stories,' and reflects on his passions for teaching and coaching basketball.
They explore how sports and academics intersect and emphasize the roles of perseverance, criticism, and community in education and personal growth.
Don't miss this compelling episode that showcases Bill's diverse career.
The show notes include links to the App State Disaster Relief Fund and the restoration of Valle Crucis Park.
App State Disaster Relief Fund
https://today.appstate.edu/2024/10/11/relief-fund
Valle Crucis Community Park:
https://vallecrucispark.org/
Visit Bill's website:
https://thetorg.com/
Bill Torgerson (App. State):
https://english.appstate.edu/faculty-staff/directory/bill-torgerson
For more information about this podcast, please visit our podcast website using the link below: https://bit.ly/3MfBqbo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Kelly Driscoll.
In this episode, you'll hear Part Twoof my conversation with Bill Torgerson,
a lecturer in Rhetoric and Compositionat Appalachian State University.
My conversation with Bill tookplace before Hurricane Helene, which
has had devastating effects on thecampus and surrounding communities.
(00:23):
We have included donation informationin the show notes for the App
State Disaster Relief Fund and therestoration of the treasured Valle
Crucis Park in Bill's neighborhood.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
(00:45):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
I was just curious if you'd stumbledupon some Uh, students in creating these
recommendations, if you encounteredwork that may have been done beyond
your course, that you could view inthe context of what they had done
during their time with you too.
(01:06):
There's so much growth that happens.
Yeah, I don't, um, You know, if I put yourname in, you know, like a student turns in
the wrong link or the links not working.
And so I search and that's anotherthing that's really nice about us all
being on the same platform is, you know,I'll do a little extra work to try to
find your portfolio because whateveryou've turned in, isn't the right link.
(01:28):
And then I'll see that you've maybecreated other portfolios, but usually I
have so much to read and respond to that.
I'm not.
Poking around others, perusing.
Well, so Bill, I, I also wantedto bring up, so you ha I learned a
little bit about you from your own,um, kind of, uh, website when I
(01:53):
was preparing to talk to you today.
And there are some Lovely aspects.
Uh, first of all, youhave your own podcast.
Uh, I wanted to learn a little bitabout that if you'd like to share that
with our listeners and kind of yourperspective on being a Writer that teaches
writing, writing is still somethingthat you're doing creatively today
(02:17):
and how that ties into what you mightbe doing in your classroom currently.
Yeah, so I have a podcast that Icall 'Torg Stories', um, and really
the, the inception of it was, itwas just an excuse to talk to people
I wanted to talk to, which you'veprobably heard like that before.
So I don't know if you know this,um, for a period of maybe five years
(02:41):
or so, um, I was what was calledthe director of Creative Writing for
the, uh, Rhode Island film festival.
Oh, you were?
No, I did not know that.
Okay.
So, I've, you know, been on yourcampus, um, and had a film show there,
actually, had one film show there.
Very cool.
Um, so that started because, um, I wrote afirst novel called Love on the Big Screen.
(03:04):
And, um, and I had studios, et cetera,interested in the novel to option it.
No one ever optioned it.
Um, and I thought, well, I'mgoing to write my own screenplay.
I'm going to adapt my own novel.
Um, and so I did that and then, um,that won the grand prize of the Rhode
Island film festival competition.
(03:27):
Um, and so now I got like this, thisall access pass at a film festival.
And I really fell in lovewith the short films.
Um, it just had so much in common with,uh, the short stories that I loved, for
example, and documentary films, whichI've done a couple of those independently.
Um, and that really paired with, uh,you know, like the idea of an electronic
(03:53):
portfolio and creating in digital spaces.
So I would watch these shortdocumentaries, almost like
character sketches, really.
Um, and I thought I can make one of these.
Uh, and so then I started, I mean, sobeing there led to me, um, going back
to that idea of it's fun to make stuff.
I made my first one was about myfather who hunted these things called
(04:16):
Morale Mushrooms, which is a reallycool family artifact that we have,
um, but, I mean, for example, therewas this guy named Chris Sparling.
He was at the film festival, andhe had just written this screenplay
called Buried, and Ryan Reynolds wasthe star of this, this great, this,
he wrote this screenplay so that hecould star in his own screenplay,
(04:36):
and almost the whole film takes placein a coffin buried in the ground.
I don't know if you've everseen Buried, but anyway.
Ryan Reynolds ended up wanting to do it.
And he was like, well, I can'tsay no to Ryan Reynolds, but I
wanted to interview this guy.
So, um, and other people like him.
And so I started this podcastcalled it Torg Stories.
So if I was like, Hey, Chris, do you wantto, you know, have dinner for an hour?
Talk to me.
(04:57):
You know, no, not really.
Um, I'm not too busy , but if I, if I getin touch and say, Hey, I have a podcast,
would you be a guest on my podcast?
People tended to say yes tothat more than dinner with me.
So that, that's kind of where it started.
So it's been 20 years.
They're not all available 'cause I'vechanged platforms a couple times.
Sure.
But it's just kind of turned into one.
I get to talk to my sister.
(05:18):
She's my most, we kind ofco-host most of the time.
Okay, great.
And then it continues to be an excuse.
Um, to just invite anybody I want totalk to for an hour onto my podcast.
Well, I certainly understand that.
I mean, that's part ofwhy you're here, Bill
Yeah.
I wondered what, like what youwould say is your motivation.
(05:39):
I mean, I'm sure it's multi-prongedto have these conversations.
Yeah, well, it is multi-pronged.
Um, I absolutely love thecommunity that we get to work
with and that we serve with our.
platform.
Um, and I, you know, I often, I think, asI mentioned before we started recording,
(06:01):
you know, I feel like I've known you for along time, even though we haven't actually
sat down to have a conversation like this.
Um, and there's a lot of people out therelike that, you know, I've discovered them.
Um, through ways that they have beenusing the platform or things that they
(06:22):
have shared in other social media areaswhere they may have tagged Digication
or, um, been speaking specifically about.
using ePortfolios or, um, otherkinds of high impact practices
where they're using Digication.
And it's just been such a joyfulexperience to see how, you know,
(06:48):
people are using something that I'vecreated and the value that they have
found in their teaching, the valuethat students have found in, you
know, learning about themselves.
Connecting to other people within theirschool communities or beyond, um, you
know, we talked a little bit about thesekind of shifting kind of life trajectories
(07:13):
and kind of pinnacle moments and veryoften those Stories come out within the
pages that they create within Digication.
So you do get these kind of windowsinto the, the people that you're, you
know, helping to support and serve.
And, um, but I don't often have theopportunity to interact with everyone.
(07:35):
And, right that's something that reallyshifted when I, um, You know, began
focusing on Digication full time andwas no longer directly in the classroom
working with students one on one.
Um, so this is something thatwe've wanted to do for a long time.
I think we're in our third year nowand, um, it's just so much fun to
(07:57):
have the, the chance to, to talkto people and to be able to share.
Their experience with, with otherpeople that are kind of following
our, our channel and interestedin the, the bigger community that
they've kind of become a part ofthrough the use of this platform too.
Right.
Yeah.
(08:17):
Um, so I know another element ofyour life that's very important
is your love of basketball.
And I hope that you mightshare some stories about that
aspect of yourself as well.
Yeah, you know the first thing, I'vealways kind of balanced between Um,
(08:39):
liking to make stuff, which started aswriting and then just being a basket,
a college, a small college basketballplayer and a basketball coach.
And I used to like try to, Iused to hide those parts of
myself from each other's camp.
Like, um, you know, when I was applyingfor University jobs, I wasn't necessarily
saying anything about basketball.
And so I don't know if you'll know any ofthese names, but somebody like Pat Conroy,
(09:02):
um, who wrote "The Prince of Tides."
Um, so he, he was a Writer.
Um, you know, a respected Writerat universities who also played
basketball at the Citadel.
Um, and who kind of balanced, um, Sportsand Academics and a guy named Richard
Ford, uh, who won the Pulitzer and hewrote a book called "The Sportswriter."
Um, and a guy like John Irving who wrote"The Cider House Rules" and was also
(09:26):
the local high school wrestling coach.
Um, So like those are three people I thinkof who helped me sort of say I can proudly
be a Creative Writer and I can proudlybe, uh, heavily involved in sports and
really, um, I kind of transitioned fromcoaching to, writing around 2002, and
(09:49):
then I had, and I thought I was done withcoaching, and I was done with sports.
Then I had two kids, and I used to,so I lived in New Canaan, Connecticut
for a while, and I had a second gradedaughter who's now a senior, and I
used to play in this old guy pickupbasketball game at lunch, at the Y,
(10:10):
and I had signed my daughter up forsecond grade basketball, and they
were like, and everyone calls me Torg.
And they were like, Torg,you're not a bad player.
We don't have anybody towork with these girls.
Will you do it?
And so literally, I just wentfrom being, okay, I'll, I'll
work with these second graders.
So that was like 15 little girls.
(10:30):
And then I immediately started to seelike, Yes, I'm connecting with my students
in the classroom, um, but nothing like I'mconnecting with these 15 second graders
who I'm spending all this time with.
So I just, it's sort of weird, I just kindof follow my daughter Charlotte through
school from second grade up through beinga senior and then like one thing leads to
(10:54):
another, you know, she's a seventh grader.
And they're like, would youcoach the seventh grade?
And then I was an assistant and ourhead coach here at Watauga High School.
Her name is Laura Barry.
And she took an assistant job surprisinglyto us at Davidson College last August.
And so it's like, she's like,I think you should do it.
And you know, some of the parentswere like, you should do it.
(11:16):
Um, and there's trickiness in being that.
So I have two daughters on the team.
It's hard on them.
You know, I make.
Every day you make decisionsthat make some people unhappy.
There's no way you can avoid it.
Um, I'm sure you run intothat managing your company.
Um, and they, sometimes people takeit out on my kids a little bit.
Um, but they were all for it.
(11:36):
So we just had a really incredibleseason, uh, where we went to the final
four and we played at Wake Forest.
Um, so we lost in the final fourin a close game, um, which was
exhausting, but also thrilling.
So, um, I've always kind of just likebalanced those two parts of my life, my,
my writing, teaching, writing self withmy, um, spending my afternoons playing,
(11:59):
you know, working with kids in the gym.
So it's much more, it started out muchmore as a way to be around my daughters
and be around their peers and it didbasketball, um, although I might be
tricking myself a little bit on that.
Oh, I mean, I just think that that is sowonderful and what an opportunity for your
daughters to, to be able to watch you inthis kind of leadership and mentoring and
(12:30):
coaching role throughout their childhood.
And, you know, you mentioned that.
Um, you know, you're making thesedecisions every day and that not,
you know, not everyone's going to behappy with those decisions and even
for them to be able to see that kindof decision making and response to,
(12:53):
you know, certain times where theremay be friction and, uh, enjoying the,
the competition, even when, you know,the, the wind might not come through.
Um, you know, what a wonderful experience.
Right.
If you take it back to like Art andSports, I mean, something I could
(13:14):
start to see when my kids were veryyoung was some of the things that
I had learned from sports that hadserved me well, um, as being creative
in that, for example, just the ideaof perseverance or taking criticism.
So, you know, I grew up abasketball player, constantly
being evaluated, sometimes not verycheerfully, um, my performance.
(13:38):
And so when I was in graduate school and.
Getting feedback on things I hadwritten, you know, some people
really struggled with that.
And for me, it was something thatI was used to, or, um, maybe, maybe
set my first novel out, you know, 75times, um, until finally someone, you
know, an independent press took it.
And just that it never occurred to methat I was going to stop sending it out.
(14:02):
Whereas, I could see that otherpeople without that sports background
maybe were more apt to give up.
Or, you know, I applied for50 jobs coming out of school
and only had four interviews.
So just like some of the thingsI learned from sticking with
something in Sports or gettingused to setbacks really transferred
(14:23):
to lots of other areas of life.
And so that's like something I wantedfor my kids and the reason I sort of
re engaged with Sports, which of courseyou can get in other ways from sports,
but that was just a path that we took.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel really fortunate that, um,you know, I had a lot of support
from my father and he alwayswatched a lot of College Basketball.
(14:45):
So, uh, I also playedbasketball growing up.
Um, and, and soccer.
I was better on the soccer field thanon the basketball court, but I always
enjoyed the game and being part ofthe team and I talked to my kids a
lot about, you know, just go try out.
You may not get to play most games.
(15:07):
You may end up sitting on the bench unlessyour team's really far ahead and you might
get out there for the last five minutesor something, or you might find that this
is something that, you know, becomes a newpassion for you, but you know, you don't
know until you, until you give it a go.
And I loved being part of the basketballteam, even though most of my role
(15:29):
was just helping during practice.
You know, I didn't mind thatI was spending time just
cheering on the the sideline.
Yeah, that's a hard sell probablyalways but today just that all the
rewards there are for being on a teamwhich have nothing to do with the
number of minutes that you're on thecourt or the shots that you're getting.
(15:50):
That's something that I'm alwaystrying to point out and that I think
kids would see if they were sortof left to see it on their own, but
they hear so much from you know.
'How many points did you score?'
You're not getting to play.
You should be playing.
So it just always, you know, it isfun to do those things, but also just
pointing out all the rewards thereare that have nothing to do with play.
Yeah.
(16:11):
Yeah.
And I'm sure so, and you may have someobvious parallels that you can draw
from, but I can't imagine that thisexperience coaching doesn't somehow find
its way into the way that you teach too.
Are there certain thingsthat you draw from?
And I feel.
(16:31):
I sort of try to not like behavetotally like a coach in the
classroom, but I think I fail in that.
I guess I worry about that.
I know that the classroom is notthe practice court gym, um, but even
some of my students, I think there'sjust something about me that says
coach because some of my studentssort of fall into calling me coach.
(16:55):
In the classroom, I think just becauseof the way I am, which is probably louder
than most professors, more excitable, morelike moving around the room, sitting down
next to you like, what's going on here?
Maybe, you know, not not likeconfrontational, but just More like, I
am a presence here that you're going tointeract with when you're in this room.
(17:17):
Um, and I think it, most of the time, inobservations, you know, from superiors or
colleagues, it's usually very positive,even though I feel self conscious about
trying to tone that down a little bit.
Um, but I do think that this, this wouldbe what I would point to as a coach and
as a professor, you know, the abilityto learn content, the ability to present
(17:42):
the content in an engaging way that makesit easily digestible to the audience,
whether it's a player or a student.
Um, those are really importantin both of those spaces and
probably strengths of mine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I imagine that your students reallyEnjoy the level of energy that you bring
to the classroom, and I think for manypeople, you know, that maybe don't know
(18:07):
you and your classroom just listening tothis and thinking back that your title is
Lecturer and Rhetoric and Composition, andI can imagine that, you know, the first
vision may have been someone standing at apodium at the front of the classroom and I
can imagine that, you know, the experiencein your classroom is very different that,
you know, you're moving around and talkingto students and have a, um, high level
(18:32):
of enthusiasm about, um, Storytellingand learning and student success.
And I think that, um, one of the mosttransformative experiences I had as a
teacher was I participated in what'scalled the National Writing Project.
And that's when I say I went froma person who set, who stood at the
(18:57):
podium and prepared lessons to aperson who sat next to my students
as a fellow Writer and creator.
So that changed everything.
So it's even, even.
Sometimes that's caused me, you know,cause I've also, I've taught every
grade, um, six through graduate school.
So I've taught sixth graders and I'vetaught every single grade in between sixth
grade and seniors, uh, in high school.
(19:18):
And then all the way up to workingwith graduate students, um, in college.
So, um, and one thing that raninto trouble sometimes Would be a
supervisor like a principal would comein and observe me and they would be
like, well, where's your teaching?
You didn't do anything It's like everyonein the room has a book that they're
really interested in and everyoneis working on a writing project.
(19:41):
You know with enthusiasm and all I'mdoing is walking around and saying
keep going you're doing great as youask questions So it's a style that
sometimes I had to sell and frame tomy superiors, but, uh, it's certainly a
much more fun day working with studentswhen that's the way that you're working.
(20:03):
Absolutely.
And that, you know, I wish that moreclassrooms could, could be that way.
And, uh, I hope you get a lotof support from your superiors
currently in, in that style.
I mean, great teaching is havingthat student engagement, right?
Yeah.
(20:24):
The last two stops for me, you know, St.
John's, uh, and here at AppState, um, incredible support.
Just like, um, I feel like,um, yeah, everybody's concerned
about how I'm feeling.
It is my energy good.
And, um, as opposed to likegiving me orders about things.
So, um, I, I, at App State, Ifeel like I'm with my people, uh,
(20:47):
as far as pedagogy is concerned.
Yeah.
Now, Bill, I have to.
Mention this because it's behind you.
In your video, you have a big, uh,the big word 'Believe' up there.
Right.
Would you mind talkingabout that a little bit?
So does that mean that you'veseen 'Ted Lasso' or you have not?
I have seen a, I have not seen everyepisode, but I am a fan, but yeah.
(21:12):
Um, it sounds like that mightbe coming from Ted Lasso
That's right.
So, um, I mean, I already had,uh, I can't quite remember the
poster, but way before Ted Lasso.
I had a picture, um, ofa unicorn in therapy.
On the wall of my office, um,and the unicorn is being told
you have to believe in yourself.
(21:33):
Um, so just a super corny, earnest,perhaps midwestern - I'm from Indiana
- um, you know, of just being a good personand being helpful and we can do it.
Um, and so Ted Lasso was a reallyunusual show about, you know, kindness,
uh, and it was weird to have, um, Sucha positive lead character in a show.
(21:59):
Um, and so I, I also have someTed Lasso figurines back there.
Some of those, those arepresents also from my family.
Um, but, um, I just sortof load up behind me.
With artifacts of family life,mostly a little bit of basketball.
I got a little Larry Bird back there.
Um, and then, and then Ted, you know,I like Jason Sudeikis, who I think co
(22:23):
created Ted Lasso, um, college basketballplayer, which people don't know.
Um, I'm also a big standup comedy guy.
Um, so that's SNL and he was on SNL.
So there's a lot of intersectionsof like the stuff I love, which is
sports and laughing and making stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and it sounds likekindness also, and yeah.
(22:47):
Thanks.
Good.
I, yeah.
Great.
Care for people.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so muchfor joining me today, Bill.
It was wonderful to have a chance toconnect with you and get to know you
a bit more, even though I've felt likewe've known each other a long time.
I really appreciate it.
Um, I'm excited to share yourstory with our listeners too.
(23:09):
Yeah, I enjoyed, I enjoyedtalking with a host for a change.
Usually I'm the one who's tryingto listen and also see what
question I'm going to next.
So it was, it was great to have you,uh, carry the workload today, Kelly.
Yeah.
Well, my, my absolute pleasure.
Take good care.
All right.
(23:29):
Thank you.
Bye.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Kelly Driscoll.
In this episode, you'll hear Part Twoof my conversation with Bill Torgerson,
a lecturer in Rhetoric and Compositionat Appalachian State University.
My conversation with Bill tookplace before Hurricane Helene, which
has had devastating effects on thecampus and surrounding communities.
(00:23):
We have included donation informationin the show notes for the App
State Disaster Relief Fund and therestoration of the treasured Valle
Crucis Park in Bill's neighborhood.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
(00:45):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
I was just curious if you'd stumbledupon some Uh, students in creating these
recommendations, if you encounteredwork that may have been done beyond
your course, that you could view inthe context of what they had done
during their time with you too.
(01:06):
There's so much growth that happens.
Yeah, I don't, um, You know, if I put yourname in, you know, like a student turns in
the wrong link or the links not working.
And so I search and that's anotherthing that's really nice about us all
being on the same platform is, you know,I'll do a little extra work to try to
find your portfolio because whateveryou've turned in, isn't the right link.
(01:28):
And then I'll see that you've maybecreated other portfolios, but usually I
have so much to read and respond to that.
I'm not.
Poking around others, perusing.
Well, so Bill, I, I also wantedto bring up, so you ha I learned a
little bit about you from your own,um, kind of, uh, website when I
(01:53):
was preparing to talk to you today.
And there are some Lovely aspects.
Uh, first of all, youhave your own podcast.
Uh, I wanted to learn a little bitabout that if you'd like to share that
with our listeners and kind of yourperspective on being a Writer that teaches
writing, writing is still somethingthat you're doing creatively today
(02:17):
and how that ties into what you mightbe doing in your classroom currently.
Yeah, so I have a podcast that Icall 'Torg Stories', um, and really
the, the inception of it was, itwas just an excuse to talk to people
I wanted to talk to, which you'veprobably heard like that before.
So I don't know if you know this,um, for a period of maybe five years
(02:41):
or so, um, I was what was calledthe director of Creative Writing for
the, uh, Rhode Island film festival.
Oh, you were?
No, I did not know that.
Okay.
So, I've, you know, been on yourcampus, um, and had a film show there,
actually, had one film show there.
Very cool.
Um, so that started because, um, I wrote afirst novel called Love on the Big Screen.
(03:04):
And, um, and I had studios, et cetera,interested in the novel to option it.
No one ever optioned it.
Um, and I thought, well, I'mgoing to write my own screenplay.
I'm going to adapt my own novel.
Um, and so I did that and then, um,that won the grand prize of the Rhode
Island film festival competition.
(03:27):
Um, and so now I got like this, thisall access pass at a film festival.
And I really fell in lovewith the short films.
Um, it just had so much in common with,uh, the short stories that I loved, for
example, and documentary films, whichI've done a couple of those independently.
Um, and that really paired with, uh,you know, like the idea of an electronic
(03:53):
portfolio and creating in digital spaces.
So I would watch these shortdocumentaries, almost like
character sketches, really.
Um, and I thought I can make one of these.
Uh, and so then I started, I mean, sobeing there led to me, um, going back
to that idea of it's fun to make stuff.
I made my first one was about myfather who hunted these things called
(04:16):
Morale Mushrooms, which is a reallycool family artifact that we have,
um, but, I mean, for example, therewas this guy named Chris Sparling.
He was at the film festival, andhe had just written this screenplay
called Buried, and Ryan Reynolds wasthe star of this, this great, this,
he wrote this screenplay so that hecould star in his own screenplay,
(04:36):
and almost the whole film takes placein a coffin buried in the ground.
I don't know if you've everseen Buried, but anyway.
Ryan Reynolds ended up wanting to do it.
And he was like, well, I can'tsay no to Ryan Reynolds, but I
wanted to interview this guy.
So, um, and other people like him.
And so I started this podcastcalled it Torg Stories.
So if I was like, Hey, Chris, do you wantto, you know, have dinner for an hour?
Talk to me.
(04:57):
You know, no, not really.
Um, I'm not too busy , but if I, if I getin touch and say, Hey, I have a podcast,
would you be a guest on my podcast?
People tended to say yes tothat more than dinner with me.
So that, that's kind of where it started.
So it's been 20 years.
They're not all available 'cause I'vechanged platforms a couple times.
Sure.
But it's just kind of turned into one.
I get to talk to my sister.
(05:18):
She's my most, we kind ofco-host most of the time.
Okay, great.
And then it continues to be an excuse.
Um, to just invite anybody I want totalk to for an hour onto my podcast.
Well, I certainly understand that.
I mean, that's part ofwhy you're here, Bill
Yeah.
I wondered what, like what youwould say is your motivation.
(05:39):
I mean, I'm sure it's multi-prongedto have these conversations.
Yeah, well, it is multi-pronged.
Um, I absolutely love thecommunity that we get to work
with and that we serve with our.
platform.
Um, and I, you know, I often, I think, asI mentioned before we started recording,
(06:01):
you know, I feel like I've known you for along time, even though we haven't actually
sat down to have a conversation like this.
Um, and there's a lot of people out therelike that, you know, I've discovered them.
Um, through ways that they have beenusing the platform or things that they
(06:22):
have shared in other social media areaswhere they may have tagged Digication
or, um, been speaking specifically about.
using ePortfolios or, um, otherkinds of high impact practices
where they're using Digication.
And it's just been such a joyfulexperience to see how, you know,
(06:48):
people are using something that I'vecreated and the value that they have
found in their teaching, the valuethat students have found in, you
know, learning about themselves.
Connecting to other people within theirschool communities or beyond, um, you
know, we talked a little bit about thesekind of shifting kind of life trajectories
(07:13):
and kind of pinnacle moments and veryoften those Stories come out within the
pages that they create within Digication.
So you do get these kind of windowsinto the, the people that you're, you
know, helping to support and serve.
And, um, but I don't often have theopportunity to interact with everyone.
(07:35):
And, right that's something that reallyshifted when I, um, You know, began
focusing on Digication full time andwas no longer directly in the classroom
working with students one on one.
Um, so this is something thatwe've wanted to do for a long time.
I think we're in our third year nowand, um, it's just so much fun to
(07:57):
have the, the chance to, to talkto people and to be able to share.
Their experience with, with otherpeople that are kind of following
our, our channel and interestedin the, the bigger community that
they've kind of become a part ofthrough the use of this platform too.
Right.
Yeah.
(08:17):
Um, so I know another element ofyour life that's very important
is your love of basketball.
And I hope that you mightshare some stories about that
aspect of yourself as well.
Yeah, you know the first thing, I'vealways kind of balanced between Um,
(08:39):
liking to make stuff, which started aswriting and then just being a basket,
a college, a small college basketballplayer and a basketball coach.
And I used to like try to, Iused to hide those parts of
myself from each other's camp.
Like, um, you know, when I was applyingfor University jobs, I wasn't necessarily
saying anything about basketball.
And so I don't know if you'll know any ofthese names, but somebody like Pat Conroy,
(09:02):
um, who wrote "The Prince of Tides."
Um, so he, he was a Writer.
Um, you know, a respected Writerat universities who also played
basketball at the Citadel.
Um, and who kind of balanced, um, Sportsand Academics and a guy named Richard
Ford, uh, who won the Pulitzer and hewrote a book called "The Sportswriter."
Um, and a guy like John Irving who wrote"The Cider House Rules" and was also
(09:26):
the local high school wrestling coach.
Um, So like those are three people I thinkof who helped me sort of say I can proudly
be a Creative Writer and I can proudlybe, uh, heavily involved in sports and
really, um, I kind of transitioned fromcoaching to, writing around 2002, and
(09:49):
then I had, and I thought I was done withcoaching, and I was done with sports.
Then I had two kids, and I used to,so I lived in New Canaan, Connecticut
for a while, and I had a second gradedaughter who's now a senior, and I
used to play in this old guy pickupbasketball game at lunch, at the Y,
(10:10):
and I had signed my daughter up forsecond grade basketball, and they
were like, and everyone calls me Torg.
And they were like, Torg,you're not a bad player.
We don't have anybody towork with these girls.
Will you do it?
And so literally, I just wentfrom being, okay, I'll, I'll
work with these second graders.
So that was like 15 little girls.
(10:30):
And then I immediately started to seelike, Yes, I'm connecting with my students
in the classroom, um, but nothing like I'mconnecting with these 15 second graders
who I'm spending all this time with.
So I just, it's sort of weird, I just kindof follow my daughter Charlotte through
school from second grade up through beinga senior and then like one thing leads to
(10:54):
another, you know, she's a seventh grader.
And they're like, would youcoach the seventh grade?
And then I was an assistant and ourhead coach here at Watauga High School.
Her name is Laura Barry.
And she took an assistant job surprisinglyto us at Davidson College last August.
And so it's like, she's like,I think you should do it.
And you know, some of the parentswere like, you should do it.
(11:16):
Um, and there's trickiness in being that.
So I have two daughters on the team.
It's hard on them.
You know, I make.
Every day you make decisionsthat make some people unhappy.
There's no way you can avoid it.
Um, I'm sure you run intothat managing your company.
Um, and they, sometimes people takeit out on my kids a little bit.
Um, but they were all for it.
(11:36):
So we just had a really incredibleseason, uh, where we went to the final
four and we played at Wake Forest.
Um, so we lost in the final fourin a close game, um, which was
exhausting, but also thrilling.
So, um, I've always kind of just likebalanced those two parts of my life, my,
my writing, teaching, writing self withmy, um, spending my afternoons playing,
(11:59):
you know, working with kids in the gym.
So it's much more, it started out muchmore as a way to be around my daughters
and be around their peers and it didbasketball, um, although I might be
tricking myself a little bit on that.
Oh, I mean, I just think that that is sowonderful and what an opportunity for your
daughters to, to be able to watch you inthis kind of leadership and mentoring and
(12:30):
coaching role throughout their childhood.
And, you know, you mentioned that.
Um, you know, you're making thesedecisions every day and that not,
you know, not everyone's going to behappy with those decisions and even
for them to be able to see that kindof decision making and response to,
(12:53):
you know, certain times where theremay be friction and, uh, enjoying the,
the competition, even when, you know,the, the wind might not come through.
Um, you know, what a wonderful experience.
Right.
If you take it back to like Art andSports, I mean, something I could
(13:14):
start to see when my kids were veryyoung was some of the things that
I had learned from sports that hadserved me well, um, as being creative
in that, for example, just the ideaof perseverance or taking criticism.
So, you know, I grew up abasketball player, constantly
being evaluated, sometimes not verycheerfully, um, my performance.
(13:38):
And so when I was in graduate school and.
Getting feedback on things I hadwritten, you know, some people
really struggled with that.
And for me, it was something thatI was used to, or, um, maybe, maybe
set my first novel out, you know, 75times, um, until finally someone, you
know, an independent press took it.
And just that it never occurred to methat I was going to stop sending it out.
(14:02):
Whereas, I could see that otherpeople without that sports background
maybe were more apt to give up.
Or, you know, I applied for50 jobs coming out of school
and only had four interviews.
So just like some of the thingsI learned from sticking with
something in Sports or gettingused to setbacks really transferred
(14:23):
to lots of other areas of life.
And so that's like something I wantedfor my kids and the reason I sort of
re engaged with Sports, which of courseyou can get in other ways from sports,
but that was just a path that we took.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel really fortunate that, um,you know, I had a lot of support
from my father and he alwayswatched a lot of College Basketball.
(14:45):
So, uh, I also playedbasketball growing up.
Um, and, and soccer.
I was better on the soccer field thanon the basketball court, but I always
enjoyed the game and being part ofthe team and I talked to my kids a
lot about, you know, just go try out.
You may not get to play most games.
(15:07):
You may end up sitting on the bench unlessyour team's really far ahead and you might
get out there for the last five minutesor something, or you might find that this
is something that, you know, becomes a newpassion for you, but you know, you don't
know until you, until you give it a go.
And I loved being part of the basketballteam, even though most of my role
(15:29):
was just helping during practice.
You know, I didn't mind thatI was spending time just
cheering on the the sideline.
Yeah, that's a hard sell probablyalways but today just that all the
rewards there are for being on a teamwhich have nothing to do with the
number of minutes that you're on thecourt or the shots that you're getting.
(15:50):
That's something that I'm alwaystrying to point out and that I think
kids would see if they were sortof left to see it on their own, but
they hear so much from you know.
'How many points did you score?'
You're not getting to play.
You should be playing.
So it just always, you know, it isfun to do those things, but also just
pointing out all the rewards thereare that have nothing to do with play.
Yeah.
(16:11):
Yeah.
And I'm sure so, and you may have someobvious parallels that you can draw
from, but I can't imagine that thisexperience coaching doesn't somehow find
its way into the way that you teach too.
Are there certain thingsthat you draw from?
And I feel.
(16:31):
I sort of try to not like behavetotally like a coach in the
classroom, but I think I fail in that.
I guess I worry about that.
I know that the classroom is notthe practice court gym, um, but even
some of my students, I think there'sjust something about me that says
coach because some of my studentssort of fall into calling me coach.
(16:55):
In the classroom, I think just becauseof the way I am, which is probably louder
than most professors, more excitable, morelike moving around the room, sitting down
next to you like, what's going on here?
Maybe, you know, not not likeconfrontational, but just More like, I
am a presence here that you're going tointeract with when you're in this room.
(17:17):
Um, and I think it, most of the time, inobservations, you know, from superiors or
colleagues, it's usually very positive,even though I feel self conscious about
trying to tone that down a little bit.
Um, but I do think that this, this wouldbe what I would point to as a coach and
as a professor, you know, the abilityto learn content, the ability to present
(17:42):
the content in an engaging way that makesit easily digestible to the audience,
whether it's a player or a student.
Um, those are really importantin both of those spaces and
probably strengths of mine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I imagine that your students reallyEnjoy the level of energy that you bring
to the classroom, and I think for manypeople, you know, that maybe don't know
(18:07):
you and your classroom just listening tothis and thinking back that your title is
Lecturer and Rhetoric and Composition, andI can imagine that, you know, the first
vision may have been someone standing at apodium at the front of the classroom and I
can imagine that, you know, the experiencein your classroom is very different that,
you know, you're moving around and talkingto students and have a, um, high level
(18:32):
of enthusiasm about, um, Storytellingand learning and student success.
And I think that, um, one of the mosttransformative experiences I had as a
teacher was I participated in what'scalled the National Writing Project.
And that's when I say I went froma person who set, who stood at the
(18:57):
podium and prepared lessons to aperson who sat next to my students
as a fellow Writer and creator.
So that changed everything.
So it's even, even.
Sometimes that's caused me, you know,cause I've also, I've taught every
grade, um, six through graduate school.
So I've taught sixth graders and I'vetaught every single grade in between sixth
grade and seniors, uh, in high school.
(19:18):
And then all the way up to workingwith graduate students, um, in college.
So, um, and one thing that raninto trouble sometimes Would be a
supervisor like a principal would comein and observe me and they would be
like, well, where's your teaching?
You didn't do anything It's like everyonein the room has a book that they're
really interested in and everyoneis working on a writing project.
(19:41):
You know with enthusiasm and all I'mdoing is walking around and saying
keep going you're doing great as youask questions So it's a style that
sometimes I had to sell and frame tomy superiors, but, uh, it's certainly a
much more fun day working with studentswhen that's the way that you're working.
(20:03):
Absolutely.
And that, you know, I wish that moreclassrooms could, could be that way.
And, uh, I hope you get a lotof support from your superiors
currently in, in that style.
I mean, great teaching is havingthat student engagement, right?
Yeah.
(20:24):
The last two stops for me, you know, St.
John's, uh, and here at AppState, um, incredible support.
Just like, um, I feel like,um, yeah, everybody's concerned
about how I'm feeling.
It is my energy good.
And, um, as opposed to likegiving me orders about things.
So, um, I, I, at App State, Ifeel like I'm with my people, uh,
(20:47):
as far as pedagogy is concerned.
Yeah.
Now, Bill, I have to.
Mention this because it's behind you.
In your video, you have a big, uh,the big word 'Believe' up there.
Right.
Would you mind talkingabout that a little bit?
So does that mean that you'veseen 'Ted Lasso' or you have not?
I have seen a, I have not seen everyepisode, but I am a fan, but yeah.
(21:12):
Um, it sounds like that mightbe coming from Ted Lasso
That's right.
So, um, I mean, I already had,uh, I can't quite remember the
poster, but way before Ted Lasso.
I had a picture, um, ofa unicorn in therapy.
On the wall of my office, um,and the unicorn is being told
you have to believe in yourself.
(21:33):
Um, so just a super corny, earnest,perhaps midwestern - I'm from Indiana
- um, you know, of just being a good personand being helpful and we can do it.
Um, and so Ted Lasso was a reallyunusual show about, you know, kindness,
uh, and it was weird to have, um, Sucha positive lead character in a show.
(21:59):
Um, and so I, I also have someTed Lasso figurines back there.
Some of those, those arepresents also from my family.
Um, but, um, I just sortof load up behind me.
With artifacts of family life,mostly a little bit of basketball.
I got a little Larry Bird back there.
Um, and then, and then Ted, you know,I like Jason Sudeikis, who I think co
(22:23):
created Ted Lasso, um, college basketballplayer, which people don't know.
Um, I'm also a big standup comedy guy.
Um, so that's SNL and he was on SNL.
So there's a lot of intersectionsof like the stuff I love, which is
sports and laughing and making stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and it sounds likekindness also, and yeah.
(22:47):
Thanks.
Good.
I, yeah.
Great.
Care for people.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so muchfor joining me today, Bill.
It was wonderful to have a chance toconnect with you and get to know you
a bit more, even though I've felt likewe've known each other a long time.
I really appreciate it.
Um, I'm excited to share yourstory with our listeners too.
(23:09):
Yeah, I enjoyed, I enjoyedtalking with a host for a change.
Usually I'm the one who's tryingto listen and also see what
question I'm going to next.
So it was, it was great to have you,uh, carry the workload today, Kelly.
Yeah.
Well, my, my absolute pleasure.
Take good care.
All right.
(23:29):
Thank you.
Bye.
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