January 18, 2024 • 44 mins
| Increasing first-page rankings and organic traffic has always involved guesswork. Experienced marketers know that deciding what content to produce and how to publish it can lead to wasted time, energy, and money. That can stop anyone dead in their tracks. But what would it look like if guesswork was no longer a factor in SEO and everything that goes into it?Join Ryan Brock, Chief Solutions Officer at DemandJump, for a first-ever look at how DemandJump eliminated guesswork to win 497 first-page rankings in mere weeks on one of the most competitive topics in the game -- "SaaS content" -- and how we’ve productized Pillar-Based Marketing to drive these kinds of results in a repeatable, transparent, and measurable way for dozens of brands and industries since then.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:02):
Good morning, everybody. My name is Ryan
Brock, I am the chief solutionofficer at demand jump. And I am
here to talk about pillar basedmarketing. And because I like to
get on stage and make reallybold and outrageous claims to
people, I decided to not burythe lead on this one and name
this presentation exactly whatit is that pillar based
(00:23):
marketing represents, which isthat this is going to be a case
study about how I was able totake just a few pieces of
content and in just seven weeksdrive 497 page one rankings. And
it's all about a new methodologyfor SEO that involves data. And
it involves a completely new setof best practices that will kind
(00:45):
of override everything thatyou've done when it comes to
SEO. So before I go any furtherand make a lot of assumptions
about the audience here.
Content, who here is allinvolved with content for the
organization? Yeah, pretty muchwhat I expected everybody Well,
good news, you're part of avery, very large group of
people, because turns out 4.4million blogs are produced every
single day. How many blogs aday, I read like two blogs a
(01:10):
day, does anyone in here readmore than like 10 blogs a day
you think? Exactly at thisnumber, it's not a surprise that
90.63% of web pages get zerotraffic. And that's all over the
internet. We all know, there's alot of junk. So I believe
amongst the people in this room,creating content and putting it
out there. Our numbers areprobably a little bit better
(01:32):
than this. But the fact of thematter is content marketing, SEO
in particular has foreverrepresented a black box when it
comes to ROI. When it comes toactually measuring, marketing
spend and making sure that whatwe're doing is driving business
results. Why? I believe theanswer to that is guesswork. So
you I think SEO is one of theseparts of digital marketing,
(01:55):
where we do a lot of things thatlook like data driven decision
making. We look at keywordlists. We analyze monthly search
volumes, we talk aboutcompetition scores, we look at
domain authority, and we seethese numbers and we think,
Okay, I'm making really goodchoices that are informed. But
at the end of the day, theprocess that we've all been
(02:16):
using for the last 10 years ormore is one that's full of bias.
And at the end of the day, thedata that we're looking at, is
just information. In fact, 85%of CMOS say that the ability to
make data driven decisions is acritical competitive advantage.
If we know that what we're doingmakes any logical sense in the
(02:37):
real world, it's going to be alot easier for us to focus and
prioritize what is valuable.
Yeah, more than 67% of CMOSreport that the sheer volume of
data that's available isoverwhelming. Sometimes we got
to skip ahead and see what mynext slide looks like before I
(02:57):
keep going. I like thetransitions to be smooth. The
fact of the matter is, marketingis maybe a little bit late to
the game in my opinion, versuslike sales and finance and other
elements of the business wheredata is just available at all
times. But we have so much dataavailable to us data like that
(03:19):
that search volume estimate thatwe look at on SEM rush or
wherever we're looking atkeywords that it doesn't really
give us a direction to go, itdoesn't tell us anything
prescriptive, we're used tooperating with just a bunch of
information, and then having tomake decisions along the way
that are still going to beinfluenced by the last
conversation we had, or thething we think is coolest about
(03:40):
our products or what we want ourbest customers to be searching
for online. However, if you canmake sense of the data that you
have to inform your organicstrategy, and I mean truly
inform what it is you should bewriting about versus what you
want to be writing about, orwhat your keyword research tool
tells you is a good topic towrite about. You can drive
(04:02):
results that are absolutelyinsane. So for those of you who
are a little bit small up here,I got a laser pointer. Right.
Cool. So these are two differentgraphs on the left, that
represents top 100 positionrankings for terms within a
(04:23):
specific pillar topic network.
I'm gonna talk about what thatmeans in a moment. But shorthand
here is if I as a marketer wholoves pillar based marketing,
because it actually drives goodresults for me, decided that I
want to understand what thetotal market is for organic
traffic around a topic thatmatters to me. In this case, it
would be my pillar, and thatwould be called SAS content if I
wanted to write content aboutSAS content, and I was going to
(04:45):
develop a bunch of SEO contentaround Sass content, because my
business loves writing contentfor Sass companies. The chart on
the left represents the totalnumber of of rankings of that we
have on our domain for keywordsthat are relevant. to that
topic, I'll explain how wedecide what's relevant in a
(05:06):
moment. But here we've got closeto 2000. And as you can see, a
lot of them are in the red, thered are our page four and
beyond. So that's completelyuseless. And total vanity,
yellow is page three, green,page two, but blue is page one.
And that's what the chart on theright breaks into. And as you
can see, in a span from October8, until the very beginning of
(05:28):
January, just a few weeks, I wasable to drive us from zero page
one rankings on important termsrelevant to SAS content, to 497.
Just to put some context aroundthat we did the math 497
rankings, the amount of trafficis actually driving for us is
worth something like $170,000annualized in paid traffic. But
(05:53):
this traffic converts in a thirdof the time, it's paid traffic,
and it comes in better informed.
And it's more valuable to us inevery single way. So just by
producing content, just bymaking the right content, we've
gone from paying absurd amountsof money on digital ads to
driving better quality leadsfaster. How do we do it? It's
(06:18):
all about leveraging the powerof the network, which is not
something you're going to findat all in traditional SEO
methodology. And as an exampleof this, here's an absolute
nonsense slide that I don'texpect any of you to make any
sense of this is actually a sortof two dimensional graph of
(06:38):
search behavior about the topicof hurricane season. And if you
were able to read this, if I'mable to read this, I don't know
if I am. Yeah, questions likeWill 2019 be a bad hurricane
season? This charts old for therecord, but I don't think
hurricane season changes a lot.
Is there a hurricane in Houston?
Was Harvey hurricane when ithits Houston? What are the most
deadly hurricanes see, at amoment in time, in 2019. If you
(07:03):
were to analyze all of thesearch behavior happening around
hurricane season, all of theseyellow and green and red dots
represent the terms that peopleactually search online. There's
they're semantically related.
But importantly, they'rerelated, because Google says
that they are. So what demandjump does what our technology
does, that nobody else is doingis we take that raw data, we
(07:24):
analyze it, think of it likethis, if I were to go onto a
search engine results page, andI were to type hurricane season,
and I see that there are peoplealso ask questions, and then I
see that there are relatedsearches. That happens for every
single search that you can makeon Google new stuff, and a few
really weird whitelisted orcensored once. If you were to
then go research and searchthose recommendations, you're
(07:46):
gonna get a different set ofrecommendations on those pages.
If you then go and search therecommendations from all of
those pages, you do that likethree or four times, you've
gotten insane amount of data.
And it's enough data that youcan start to understand, like on
this map, all of the differentways people search for
information about a topic that'simportant to your business. And
(08:09):
this is truly the totaladdressable market for organic
truck traffic for your business.
It's literally the table stakes,it's the lay of the land, it's
the price, it's the one thingthat you're actually trying to
get as much of as possible inorder to drive reliable organic
traffic to your business. Whatwe're doing is we're taking that
data we're analyzing, and we'refinding that in all of those
infinite customer journeyssomebody can take to learn about
(08:32):
a topic. There's certain phrasesthat come up again and again,
that two or three or even 40,people who are on completely
different journeys, startingwith completely different
questions ending in totallydifferent places, at some point
in their journey, end upsearching for the exact same
thing.
(08:52):
So we learned this, and wefigured out that if that's the
case, there's a new way toanalyze search terms and
keywords and to prioritize whatwe choose to write about.
Because I don't care what thesearch volume estimates are from
Google or from sem rush or fromany other tool on those terms
that happen to be commonlyshared across different
(09:12):
journeys. All I care about isthey're commonly shared across
different journeys. And if I canisolate as many of those terms
as possible, use a littlemachine learning to look at
those tools, or look at thosekeywords and see which ones are
the most commonly searchedquestions, I suddenly start to
have a roadmap, a roadmap forcontent that I can write. That
(09:34):
is a completely prescriptivestrategy. It's something that in
and of itself tells me what todo. And so when we first decided
that we were going to work onthis, what we did is we
experimented a ton we figuredout like okay, what are some
different frameworks for contentthat we can start borrowing from
in order to take this data andput it to use and one of the
things we really liked was topicclusters or pillars. The idea
(09:56):
that you would have main topicsthat you care about with linked
content to it, we took thatinformation. And we just
experimented with it as much aswe possibly could. We said,
Okay, let's experiment withdifferent lengths of content.
Let's experiment with differentways of linking the content
together. And in the end, whatwe came up with was, and this is
just a really simple I mean,this is like not for external
(10:17):
use, really, this is like ourinternal plan and how we did it.
But we found these terms, and wedecided that we would, we would
write about things like SAScontent, that would be a pillar
page. Marketing, SAS companieswould be a sub pillar page, more
on that in a moment. And thenunderneath those, we would also
have blog posts that answeredvery specific questions like,
What is SAS product marketing?
How is SAS marketing different?
(10:42):
And then this completelygrammatically incorrect one, how
digital marketing can help us asbusiness? If I were to see those
questions in a keyword researchtool, there's a good chance that
the search volume estimate wouldbe zero, because Google doesn't
share search volume estimatesfor questions. And a lot of the
tools out there are getting alot smarter about that and
(11:02):
making their own estimates. Butin terms of buying potential in
terms of like a purchase intent,these questions don't seem to
make a lot of sense for a brandthat wants to sell software to
somebody who's doing SAScontent. And yet, amongst all of
the internet, views are thequestions that come up again,
and again and again and again.
So the pillar page, sub pillarpages and blog posts. After
(11:25):
experimenting, we learned thatwe can take that network and
turn it into a sort of ahierarchy like this, where a
pillar page was sort of the mainhub for all content on the
domain about the topic of SAScontent, those sub pillar pages
would contain the focus keywordof the pillar page and link up
to it. And then blog posts woulddo the same for sub pillars and
(11:45):
blogs are and pillars. OnePillar page was 3000 words,
roughly, is about as long as wethink we need to go with these
pillar pages in order toactually serve the network
effect and get the hub effectthat we're going for. And
that'll be our sort of longestbut most broad page of content
(12:06):
about SAS content on our on ourwebsite, it's sort of like a
survey, a quick synopsis of whatare the what are the high
points, what are the big thingsthat we need to cover. And then
those six sub pillar pages haveabout 2000 words, they were the
things like marketing, SAScompanies. So again, we're gonna
stay broad in the topic ofmarketing, SAS companies, but
(12:27):
we're going to also be able togo a lot more specific into that
with this content than we wouldif we covered that topic in the
pillar page. And then 20supporting blogs, we're about
750 words, these are about astandard blog, as you can
imagine, they're just simple,short, to the point blogs that
answer the question that peoplereally care about, and then
actually go a little bit furtherto only talk about the aspects
(12:48):
of that, that people have toldus they want to know, altogether
27 pieces of content, we wrotethat content in four weeks, I
have a big writing team. So it'seasy for me to do that. The
point remains, though, that welearned through experimentation,
another big thing that we dodifferent than the normal SEO,
we don't write 20 pieces ofcontent over five, five months
(13:09):
and publish them one or two blogposts a week, we wait till it's
all done, all approved, allloaded up into our CMS. And then
we hit go on everything all atthe same time. And that's how we
got to these results. Just a fewweeks later, we went from 497 to
606. And I actually forgot toupdate the slide before I came
(13:33):
here. Now we're at like 660,something that counts is just
sitting there, we're not doinganything with it. But over time,
it's become an appreciatingasset that is now driving an
insane amount of traffic. We gota question, are we
I just don't know if like ifit's okay to interrupt you and
(13:54):
ask questions.
I mean, I'll let it slide, Iguess. All right, thank you.
Well, plenty of time forquestions at the end, by the
way, but go for it. So on theprevious page.
No, the one that had the thisone. So is it like a ladder
where you're having keywords atthe bottom of the those choice
(14:15):
supporting blogs support or havesent similar keywords to the six
that have similar to the one? Soyou're laddering up? Or is it
not based on the keywords?
It's entirely based on thekeywords, but it's based on it
in a different way. They'regonna as much as possible each
one of these is going to targetdifferent keywords. So I'd have
a slide that like breaks thisdown, and I'll show you exactly
(14:36):
what that looks like. But fornow, just suffice and you know,
scratch that itch for you. Theidea is that across something
like this, we'd probably end uptargeting something like 250
keywords total. And thosekeywords aren't chosen because
they drive a lot of value orvolume or that they look like
they're high purchase intent orthey have low competition so we
(14:58):
feel confident we're going torank for them, they're chosen,
because we know they reflectwhat people actually care about
on this topic. And that has ahuge impact. And I'll explain
exactly why. Beyond the obviouswell, when someone gets here,
they like what they see. So theystay. We think there's a really,
really specific reason whythat's a great question. And I
promise you, I'm gonna give youmore detail in like, four or
five slides. Thank you. You'rewelcome. And this, the last
(15:22):
results site I'll show is,we've, we've done a lot of
pillars now, demand jump, butjust our last three of them.
This is this isrepresentational. It's 2776,
page, one keywords over probablyabout 50 pieces of content
total. And that's just overnightsuccess that keeps sustaining
(15:45):
and keeps going. And some ofthese republished at least two
years ago, in some cases, three.
And it's not, I mean, it'sreally easy for me to get up
here and talk about demand jump,because we're the experts at
this. And so we do it forourselves. It literally does not
matter what industry, you're inwhat topic you want to rank for
how much farther along yourcompetition is, because our
competition are like the bigones, the ones that you all know
(16:07):
and have heard of HubSpotSEMrush H refs, these are the
biggest names in content ContentMarketing Institute, I love
those guys. I get webinars withthem all the time. And we still
want to kick their asses off thefront page, because we don't
want to be in their spot. Right.
So like, even though they'vebeen the experts on content
marketing for years, we're ableto supplant them for a lot of
(16:28):
different topics, because ofthis approach. Oh, yeah, there's
a lot more there's, so we got Imean, we got b2b, we got small
businesses, we got enterprise,we've got people selling
widgets, e commerce, we gotpeople selling services, we got
people selling software, it doesnot matter. What matters is this
network approach. There's noshortcuts here, this is not
(16:48):
something that we're exploitinga weakness in the algorithm. And
when the algorithm updates,we're gonna get screwed. I live
through Panda, like many of youprobably did, and I don't want a
lawsuit on my hands. So if wedon't do that, we don't exploit
something that we know Googlesays not to do. In fact, every
time the algorithm has updatedsince we began implementing
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this, all of the rankings of usand every single practitioner of
PBM, that uses our platform havegone up pretty much instantly
overnight. It's because we'reusing data in a smart and
prescriptive way. And we'reusing a methodology that at this
point in time has been proven,and it works every time. So now,
the meat and potatoes, how doesit work? We're gonna give you a
(17:30):
high level. And then if you wantto talk more, I'll give you the
deeper level after this. Sonumber one, your first job is to
identify the mission critical,short tail keyword, your
business wants to be on page onefor something like SAS content,
something like five gallonbuckets. And that's not a joke.
One time I had a customer thatliterally just sells five gallon
buckets, and they compete withLowe's and Home Depot for him.
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We got him one in number oneposition for five gallon buckets
over national brands. And also,I learned that people care about
five gallon buckets. There'slike more than two questions,
people ask about five gallonbuckets. It's amazing. But
Google is tracking this stuff.
So we can benefit from that. Nowwe do that by taking a look at
all the different topics that wethink are important. So if your
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business has five or sixcategories of products or
services, if you have differentpersonas you serve different
markets you work in, you mighthave several different options
that could make sense. And youmight be led to choose one of
those options based on what youthink is your highest priority
as a business. But actually, wefound that in the data, if you
if you map these networks, likethat hurricane season graph, and
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you look at your position forkeywords within that network,
all throughout the top 10 pagesof search results, and also the
positions of your competitionthe people you want to be taking
traffic away from this, thisapproach gives you very, very
solid clarity on what yourstrongest opportunity is what
topic to focus on, where youshould begin your pillar based
marketing efforts because weknow where you have the most
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ground to catch up and where youhave the biggest opportunity to
drive traffic and take it awayfrom your competition. So next,
once you've felt good enoughthat you've got a pillar topic
that works, you take a deep diveinto the entire network of
search behavior around thisnetwork. At demand job, what we
do is we automate that by justsearching literally everything
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collecting 1000s of keywords,and then finding those patterns
that I talked about looking forall those inflection points and
connection points where peoplewho are learning in different
ways end up asking the samequestions and that drives the
recommendations we make. And theonly metric we care about is
connectedness, how connected isa term across disparate journeys
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in the Search Network. It's notsomething you're going to find
in any other tool because it'snot something people are even
thinking about. And then onceyou know what those important
prioritize terms are, you builda pillar strategy following
these, these best practices.
Again, you start with 16 pieces.
We found trial and error thatyou don't need to write 27 have
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been 28 pieces. In fact, thefirst time we did this, we wrote
90 pieces of content, which wasnot a really solid story to
sell, like I did I tell people,This is amazing. But we had to
write 90 pieces of content todrive results. People are like,
okay, cool, I'll see you in twoyears, right? So. But now, we
found that the network effect,the thing at work here that
makes this so good, it canhappen with just 16 pieces of
(20:21):
content. So it's one pillar pagewith 3000 Plus words, three sub
pillar pages of 2000 plus words,and then 12, supporting blogs.
And you'll notice that there'sonly nine supporting blogs on
there. That's because offscreen, somewhere over here,
there's three more blogs thatlink directly up to the pillar
page. And they do that becausewe want to make sure that we're
sending the right signal thatthat pillar page is a hub that
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in and of itself defines therest of the content so that the
content serves the pillar page,the pillar page serves the rest
of the content. Next, we createcontent that's focused solely on
answering questions, and wethrow out old SEO tricks. So as
we dive deeper into writing aspecific article and deciding
what we're going to talk aboutthat network, again, hurricane
(21:04):
season, it serves as a really,really helpful guide, because
let's say we've picked one ofthose bubbles in that network.
And we're gonna write aboutcontent marketing types. That's
what we have on screen here.
Well, we can spatiallyunderstand people who search
content marketing types, whatare the recommendations from
Google's recommendation engineabout the questions people also
(21:26):
ask when they search that, andnot just there, but because of
the way that we are analyzingseveral different possible
futures? For someone who'ssearching this topic, we can
actually make a list ofrecommendations that you can
choose from that tell you if youanswer these specific questions.
These are the questions peoplego and search after they search
this first topic, because thosewere the gag answers they
(21:47):
actually wanted. And they didn'tknow they wanted until they
didn't find them. Does that makesense? We're seeing how the
collective mind thinks about agiven topic and how they want to
learn about it. And so what wedo is we start with those
questions, we start withquestions, and we use them as
the h2 in articles. So we buildan outline around those
questions. And what that does isit locks a writer into only
(22:10):
focusing on the parts of thisthat somebody actually cares
about. Because if I were to givecontent marketing types as a, as
a title to four differentwriters, I'm going to get four
completely different articles,they're going to have different
four different ways of category,categorizing content marketing
types, they're going to focus ondifferent aspects of how you how
you discern between the four.
But if I say no, these are thequestions that we need to answer
(22:31):
in this article. That article isgoing to get a lot closer than
those four holes might be a lotcloser. And then beyond that,
we're going to pick a few otherkeywords that just sort of
naturally once we know whatquestions we're going to answer
naturally fit into that. Andthey're going to come from the
same list because those keywordslike those questions are
spatially related in thenetwork. So for a pillar page
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3000 Plus words, we do about 20keywords, and half of those
would be h2. So we'll pick 10questions that will serve as our
h2, and then another 10keywords, including the title to
just sprinkle in throughout 16for sub pillars again, half and
half questions and keywords, andthen eight for those supporting
blogs, half and half. That meansthere's only four headings and a
(23:16):
750 word blog. And we don'tworry about keyword density,
like Yoast SEO can just kickrocks, we don't listen to it at
all. There's no There's nokeyword cannibalization, there's
no use this keyword so manytimes, just write it as humanly
as you possibly can and makesure you touch on these topics.
(23:38):
And you follow the internallinking strategy, and you
publish the content. Now youdrop that content in three quick
ways, if you have to this isdepending on how healthy your
site is, how frequently youpublish content, your mileage is
gonna vary here. Sometimes itcan take you a day or two to get
a page of content index on yoursite. But what we tell people is
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drop your pillar page first,because it's the hub, and then
go to Google Search Console andrequest indexing. And if it
indexes right away, right away,publish the sub pillars. And if
that index is right away, rightaway, publish the blogs. At this
point, our site is so healthy,we'll literally just publish it
all at once. Now, why is that?
It's because no one article isdesigned to rank for any one
(24:22):
term, even though we're focusingon answering questions. We're
not concerned with how this onearticle on content marketing
types, is going to compete withthe other articles about content
marketing types. What we careabout is that network graph,
because that network graphmirrors Google's own
recommendation engine, which isbased on Google's ample
(24:42):
observation of just millions,maybe billions example of
examples of how people searchfor information. When we drop
that network as a whole. Googleisn't looking at just an
individual piece of content.
They're looking at an entirenetwork of content that is
optimized, and that may actionsthe user experience Google knows
is already the real world, whichmeans you're an authority
(25:05):
instantly. Google isn't havingto decide if it's one page of
content isn't authority. They'renot having to look at domain
authority to decide whether ornot you're an authoritative
brand. By the way, I've beenkeeping track of this, I've got
a whole other presentation onthis domain authority means
nothing. It means absolutelynothing. We haven't paid for a
backlink ever. We haven't askedfor a backlink ever. We don't
(25:27):
tell our customers to do iteither. When you do this, it
works. And so we have never,never asked or paid for a
backlink. But we're on page onefor so many terms that we've got
like 20,000, we don't even haveto ask where they just come in
because we have authoritativecontent. And so all Google knows
is that what you've writtenmirrors its own network, you're
(25:47):
recreating part of Google's ownnetwork understanding of
behavior running topic on yourwebsite, and that whole network,
because of the linking, andbecause of the way that we're
you know, sort of relatingeverything together becomes just
a whole lot more authoritativethan an individual piece could
ever be. And because we'rechoosing to talk about questions
and keywords, and things thatare less obvious, that maybe
(26:08):
don't have a high purchaseintent, don't have a High search
volume aren't the things that wewould actually pay attention to,
if we were looking at atraditional SEO tool. Google
knows we're not just trying tosell something awesome, kind of
we are, but it doesn't look likewe are because we're actually
before anything else providingvalue. We're really answering
the real world questions peopleare asking that makes us an
(26:29):
authority. And Google's job morethan anything else is just to
measure authority, and to decidewho deserves to be on top. Now,
the only thing other thanlearning from this data and
writing this content andpublishing it all at once that
we do that we found really,really works well is we'll take
a little bit of our paid budget,and when we publish that content
(26:49):
will drive a little bit ofqualified traffic to those pages
right away. The reason for thatis this content is so freakin
good. It's so aligned with whatthe market in general wants to
know about any topic, that whenthey get there, they, they read
it, they stay on the page, andthen they click to other pages.
In fact, I've had a lot ofmarketers say to me 3000 words
is absolutely preposterous for apage of content, nobody's going
(27:11):
to read it, and it's going tolook stupid on our site. And yet
across, I want to say hundreds,but it might just be dozens of
customers, I don't want to likeoverstate it. The average time
on page for a pillar page fromthe pillar race Marketing
methodology is about 15 minutes.
Compare that to what the averageis for all of the internet in
2023, which is about two minutesfor any any given web page.
(27:34):
People are actually reading thiscontent because it's what they
want before they even know thatthey want it. And so in order to
prove that that content is good,we just drive some traffic there
right away, we'll use, we useOutbrain. It's a really nice,
like easy, cheap syndicationtool, but your audience might be
on LinkedIn, it might be on onFacebook, Instagram, depending
on your industry, as long asyou're driving some traffic that
(27:57):
is actually in your targetaudience, and you're doing it
across that whole network. Andfor us, we'll spend as little as
$10, an article or as much as50. But still, it's so cheap
compared to the ongoing adspend, we need to put out there
in order to sustain the kind oftraffic we're going to get from
this in the long run. And thatjust kick starts it. And that's
what leads to that hockey stickchart where it just goes and
within days, not six months, nota year, like most SEO content,
(28:21):
we begin ranking. Finally, ifyou start with 16 pieces, you
might find that that gives you areally good start. It'll help
you convince yourself and yourboss, that this is worth
investing more into. You'regoing to get good rankings, but
you're gonna see that maybe yourcompetition has been at it
longer than Eunice's way. How doyou so you go about this in a
very natural way. And you justcontinue growing your network,
(28:43):
you look for the next highestpriority sub pillar topic, blog
topics, you add those asclusters to the network. Over
time, your coverage of thatmarket grows, and you begin
winning a bigger portion of themarket. And that's, I forgot I
had I thought I had a few moreslides. So that's the long and
(29:03):
short of it. If you've beenaround here, the last couple of
days demand jump our booth isright out there. I wrote the
book on this because I'm sopassionate about it if you can't
sell it's called pillar basedmarketing, a data driven
methodology for SEO and contentthat actually works. And we got
copies out there that wereselling for like six or $7 less
than there are they are online,it'll sign up for you if you
(29:24):
want it. But that book breaksdown how we found these mindset
shifts, why they're soimportant. And then goes into
great detail. Each one of thoseseven points that I made is an
entire chapter in that book. Sowe'll break down exactly how to
do this demand jump university,you can search for that. I also
have hours of video contentwhere I go through that
therapeutic session with you andsay I know I'm asking you to
(29:46):
forget a lot of things that youknow about SEO, but I ran an
agency for 10 years strugglingto sell content marketing. I had
a beautiful head of blonde hairwhen I started that agency Do I
care about driving value, I careabout looking someone that I'm
working with in the eye andsaying you invest in this,
you're going to get results, I'mnot going to waste your time,
(30:06):
I'm not going to waste yourmoney. When I found this
technology, I was like themandrup, you don't even know
what you have. I was the firstcustomer, I took it, I
experimented, I built thismethodology. And then I sold my
agency to demand jumps. So theycould send me places like this
and tell this story, because itliterally changed my life and
3x, my agency's revenue in about12 months, the difference
between selling content thatmight rank in six months to
(30:28):
content that always ranks in sixweeks is a big one. So I'll tell
that story in the book demandfrom university, you can learn
all those little details aboutwhy those mindset shifts are
important. And then of course,demand job.com, where you can
just come talk to us. Andactually, we're set up at the
booth to go ahead and startmapping your topic networks
right out the gate. So if youhave something that you want to
(30:49):
see, come tell us, we'll showyou what that network looks
like. We'll shoot you an emailright away. So we're here for
the rest of the day. Thank youfor your time. This has been a
pleasure. And I think we haveplenty of time for questions, if
there are any.
(31:09):
Any questions? All right, we gotone here. Yep. Can you hear me?
Yes.
I do have a question when youbuild your real close
real? Because therethat Yeah. Okay. When you build
your keyword strategy, youmentioned that you use like a
cascading number of keywords,you use 20 for the pillar 16 for
the sub pillar and so forth.
(31:31):
Yeah. How do you approach thatkeyword cloud that you'll be you
start with 40. And you spreadthat out, and you'll add or you
just like lower the density asyou go down.
It's just a matter of links.
It's like a function of byanalyzing what tends to show up
on page one, in top positions,for short for shorter tail
(31:54):
turns, that contents usuallybigger, it's usually more
comprehensive, it has more goingon. So we did a lot of analysis,
and then trial and error to getto that. So we realized that if
we want to be at about 3000words, which matches the general
target length of other contentthat's deemed good enough to be
on page one. About 10 questionsis how how many questions we can
(32:17):
like comfortably answer withoutgoing too long or too short in
that time. And we did it longenough that like this is not a
hard and fast rule. It's likewhat Pirates of the Caribbean,
it's like more of a suggestion,right than a rule. It's like, if
you write a 2000 word, pillarpage, because that felt like the
right amount of length, and youcovered everything, and you only
worked in 16 key words, do that.
(32:40):
But I've done this enough, whenyou're speaking at conferences,
when you're telling people abouta new thing. I know it'll work
if you do that. So if you followthose, those guidelines, more
than rules, it'll work for you.
So it's a function of that. Andthen when when it comes to like,
disseminating the keywordsthroughout the entire strategy.
We don't do keyword research forthe whole strategy, we just we
figure out what topics we'regoing to write about. And then
(33:02):
in demand jump, for example, wehave a function where you say
I'm writing about contentmarketing types, we'll then go
and we'll map just that part ofthe network for you and give you
that list of Well, here's thequestions and keywords that are
most important to people who arealso looking into this. So then,
like for us, our writers aretrained in how to analyze the
network. So our writers, whengiven a topic will go in and
(33:24):
they'll find this data andthey'll choose their keywords
themselves. A lot of people,it's the strategist who sets it
for the whole the whole group,but that would come after you've
set your whole strategy. Soyou're kind of really focusing
on each article. What is themost important stuff for this
topic? Does that answer yourquestion?
(33:46):
Yeah, we got a few more. I lovethose things. It's so cool.
It's pretty cool. Sorry, I don'tknow if this is a technical
question or a style one. But youstarted to speak about
clustering. About whatclustering about clusters. So I
just wanted to understand,effectively, the proprietary
(34:09):
element, or one of theproprietary elements is how you
identify that those clusters andhow you put those together. I'm
just wondering to the extentthat you can reveal, and sorry,
if I misinterpreted it, yeah. Tothe extent you can reveal what
will be the next stage like whatdo you want to then later maybe
have an output that comes fromthat automatically? Do you
(34:32):
already have that? I'm trying tounderstand the link between
where the technology is active,and where what you present to a
client is active because itsounds amazing. And obviously,
we'll talk more but yeah,so I think AI is changed that.
The answer that questioncompletely. Right now, in terms
of how we're supporting thisworkflow. Over the next like two
or three months, we're makingsome big changes to the demand
(34:54):
jump application itself. I haverecently developed a new
authority To score to replacethe old domain authority score
called topic authority. It's allabout coverage. And so we're
going to be able to start makingusing AI much more prescriptive
recommendations about, well, thenetwork shifts over time, and
maybe some content you targetedrecently isn't important
anymore. So you need to targetother content. So we're doing a
(35:16):
little bit with that and alittle bit with like how we
output those content briefs. Butwhat's going to be really
exciting is when AI is able tostart doing some contextual
work. One of the things thatwe've already been testing is,
if for example, you've told usyou want to write about a
certain topic, we'll go andwe'll we'll look at the top five
pages on Google and then use AIto summarize, like, what do they
(35:40):
have in common? Or is thereanything they don't have in
common, so you can start gettingmore of a competitive analysis,
what you should focus on. Sothat's the future that's coming
probably in about six months,we're all doing the same thing,
trying to catch up with AI andhow it's ruining everything for
everybody, but also making itsuper awesome. And so we're
keeping on that, but but how thesausage is made and kind of it's
(36:03):
just really it's statisticalanalysis. I mean, it's a data
model. It's math at work here,statistically, these are the
terms that you should writeabout and you should rank for.
And as long as you followbasically, those seven best
practices, you are going tounderstand exactly what to do
every time. And it's just sortof repeatable. Does that answer
the heart of your question? Oris there something more specific
(36:26):
I can get into? Cool, yeah,that's what I love about this.
So I'm a writer, first andforemost, like I started a
marketing agency because Iwanted to get paid to write. And
I published a lot done a lot oflike fiction, that's who I am at
my core, but like thismethodology is equal parts
science and art. Like I like totalk about Shakespeare's
(36:46):
sonnets. Who here doesn't give acrap about Shakespeare sonnets?
Anybody? Yeah, same. Most peopledon't. And those of you who
didn't raise your hands, you'relying to yourself, I know you
are, and the rest of us. But thething that your teachers never
tell you about Shakespearesonnets is, there's 180 of them.
And they all have the same rhymescheme. They all have the same
(37:07):
leader. And they all aredifferent. They tell completely
different stories. And when yousit in an English class, and you
read those things, they'reincredibly boring. But then you
remember that in ElizabethanEngland, like everybody was
illiterate, nobody could read.
So the idea of like writingthese things, in the same
(37:30):
written rhyme scheme in the samemeter, every time meant that
like, it's more likely hisaudience at the pub, is going to
remember the dude who gets up inrecites is like his latest son.
So like him understanding thestructure within he could
operate to be creative, is whatmade him someone we talked about
to this day, it's not that hewas particularly gifted anything
else, he just understood that.
And I think this methodology,while definitely not
(37:54):
Shakespeare, it's the same idea.
It's like, give me my structure.
But within that structure,there's so much room for
creativity. And I really likedthat about this as you can bring
your own art to it. But then youstart with the science, you
know, you're making gooddecisions. Sorry for the English
lesson. In the back. Thanks.
(38:19):
I wanted to know when you talkedabout the syndication of the
content, you mentioned aboutqualifying the traffic, I wanted
to have a better understandingis the intent to have like a
better feeling if this is highquality traffic? Or do you think
it's something that actuallysupports and indexation and
support a natural ranking?
That's a good question. It is100%, about the ranking. The
(38:41):
reason we want qualified trafficis because if these pieces were
to rank on top, they're going tostart driving traffic that is
inherently qualified, becausesomebody had to search for the
term that we're targeting inorder to get their way to the
blog. So everybody reading thatblog, is someone who cares about
that topic. If we were to justlike, drive a bunch of traffic
there. And it wasn't people whocared about the topic. They're
(39:02):
not going to interact with thatpage, they're not going to read
it. And so the engagement isgoing to look off. Google
doesn't care about the contentitself. Beyond some basic stuff
that we all probably know aboutright now, what Google cares
about is how humans interactwith your content. And if we can
drive traffic, that simulatesthe traffic that would be coming
organically. And they like whatthey see they stay on the page
(39:24):
longer than maybe click to otherparts of our network, they visit
other pages of our website.
That's another signal to Googlethat Ooh, not only do we know
that they're aligned with oursearch engine behavior mapping
and our recommendation engine.
We also know that when ouraudience gets there, they like
what they see. So it's just onemore signal to help us really
(39:44):
stand out. It's like a big oldred flag, maybe like a big old
bonfire signal to Google that,hey, we just dropped a ton of
content. It's reallyauthoritative. People are going
to it right away and they likeit. All of that together is what
makes it so that you don't haveto wait six months for rankings
to happen. You You can have itin a week or two weeks or
whatever it is. Good question.
Are you in the front? Let's getyou a mic. Make sure everyone
(40:07):
can hear you. Okay. Catch it.
Hi, I wanted to ask you aboutauthorship signals. So you
mentioned you have a team ofwriters do they publish under
their names? Do you include theauthor byline, or with your
(40:29):
approach, it kind of isn'trelevant because you create such
a strong hub of content that itjust gives the authority to the
brand is and the the content ispublished on the brand website,
positioning it as a subjectmatter expert. Yeah,
I think it's the latter. Likedifferent people do it
differently. Like we'll havecustomers, especially who are in
(40:49):
like, manufacturing space, forexample. And they haven't really
gotten through their digitaltransformation yet. And their
sights kind of old, like theydon't even have the authorship
thing going, it'll still workfor them. On our site. We do put
the actual writers name on everysingle piece of content. So
across a 27 piece pillar, wemight have 14 different writers,
(41:11):
and they're all in house. And ifGoogle cares, and I don't know
if they do or not, if Googlehere, they're gonna see that the
same writers are publishingcontent on our site regularly.
But I just I don't think itmatters because we've never
really had it go worse becauseof that, or we'll never be able
to isolate that is a problembefore. It's a really good
question. And I'll take theopportunity to expand and say
(41:33):
that like, the only thing thatseems to matter is the linking.
We've learned that you link upthe way that I talked about, you
can also link between blog postsand pillar or between, you know,
from a sub pillar down to a blogpost. So you want to be
contextual, and sort of providea choose your own adventure
style experience, like letpeople go on the journey they
(41:54):
want to just like, we know, theyare on Google anyway. So things
like where the pillar page livesin your site structure doesn't
really matter. A lot of times,you'll put it on like a category
page, or like a product page orservice page, but it doesn't
really matter whether or not asub pillar deciles under like
pillar slash blah slide likethat doesn't matter. The blog's
(42:14):
can live where they areauthorship like tagging
categories, none of that reallymatters. What matters is the
contents on the domain. And it'sall linked together in the right
way. And as long as you do that,it should work. Any other
questions? All right. We're atexactly 10 minutes early, but I
(42:38):
think that's good enough to callit right, right. in great shape.
Everybody give Mr. Ryan Brock awarm round of applause thanking
him first.
Good morning, everybody. My name is Ryan
Brock, I am the chief solutionofficer at demand jump. And I am
here to talk about pillar basedmarketing. And because I like to
get on stage and make reallybold and outrageous claims to
people, I decided to not burythe lead on this one and name
this presentation exactly whatit is that pillar based
(00:23):
marketing represents, which isthat this is going to be a case
study about how I was able totake just a few pieces of
content and in just seven weeksdrive 497 page one rankings. And
it's all about a new methodologyfor SEO that involves data. And
it involves a completely new setof best practices that will kind
(00:45):
of override everything thatyou've done when it comes to
SEO. So before I go any furtherand make a lot of assumptions
about the audience here.
Content, who here is allinvolved with content for the
organization? Yeah, pretty muchwhat I expected everybody Well,
good news, you're part of avery, very large group of
people, because turns out 4.4million blogs are produced every
single day. How many blogs aday, I read like two blogs a
(01:10):
day, does anyone in here readmore than like 10 blogs a day
you think? Exactly at thisnumber, it's not a surprise that
90.63% of web pages get zerotraffic. And that's all over the
internet. We all know, there's alot of junk. So I believe
amongst the people in this room,creating content and putting it
out there. Our numbers areprobably a little bit better
(01:32):
than this. But the fact of thematter is content marketing, SEO
in particular has foreverrepresented a black box when it
comes to ROI. When it comes toactually measuring, marketing
spend and making sure that whatwe're doing is driving business
results. Why? I believe theanswer to that is guesswork. So
you I think SEO is one of theseparts of digital marketing,
(01:55):
where we do a lot of things thatlook like data driven decision
making. We look at keywordlists. We analyze monthly search
volumes, we talk aboutcompetition scores, we look at
domain authority, and we seethese numbers and we think,
Okay, I'm making really goodchoices that are informed. But
at the end of the day, theprocess that we've all been
(02:16):
using for the last 10 years ormore is one that's full of bias.
And at the end of the day, thedata that we're looking at, is
just information. In fact, 85%of CMOS say that the ability to
make data driven decisions is acritical competitive advantage.
If we know that what we're doingmakes any logical sense in the
(02:37):
real world, it's going to be alot easier for us to focus and
prioritize what is valuable.
Yeah, more than 67% of CMOSreport that the sheer volume of
data that's available isoverwhelming. Sometimes we got
to skip ahead and see what mynext slide looks like before I
(02:57):
keep going. I like thetransitions to be smooth. The
fact of the matter is, marketingis maybe a little bit late to
the game in my opinion, versuslike sales and finance and other
elements of the business wheredata is just available at all
times. But we have so much dataavailable to us data like that
(03:19):
that search volume estimate thatwe look at on SEM rush or
wherever we're looking atkeywords that it doesn't really
give us a direction to go, itdoesn't tell us anything
prescriptive, we're used tooperating with just a bunch of
information, and then having tomake decisions along the way
that are still going to beinfluenced by the last
conversation we had, or thething we think is coolest about
(03:40):
our products or what we want ourbest customers to be searching
for online. However, if you canmake sense of the data that you
have to inform your organicstrategy, and I mean truly
inform what it is you should bewriting about versus what you
want to be writing about, orwhat your keyword research tool
tells you is a good topic towrite about. You can drive
(04:02):
results that are absolutelyinsane. So for those of you who
are a little bit small up here,I got a laser pointer. Right.
Cool. So these are two differentgraphs on the left, that
represents top 100 positionrankings for terms within a
(04:23):
specific pillar topic network.
I'm gonna talk about what thatmeans in a moment. But shorthand
here is if I as a marketer wholoves pillar based marketing,
because it actually drives goodresults for me, decided that I
want to understand what thetotal market is for organic
traffic around a topic thatmatters to me. In this case, it
would be my pillar, and thatwould be called SAS content if I
wanted to write content aboutSAS content, and I was going to
(04:45):
develop a bunch of SEO contentaround Sass content, because my
business loves writing contentfor Sass companies. The chart on
the left represents the totalnumber of of rankings of that we
have on our domain for keywordsthat are relevant. to that
topic, I'll explain how wedecide what's relevant in a
(05:06):
moment. But here we've got closeto 2000. And as you can see, a
lot of them are in the red, thered are our page four and
beyond. So that's completelyuseless. And total vanity,
yellow is page three, green,page two, but blue is page one.
And that's what the chart on theright breaks into. And as you
can see, in a span from October8, until the very beginning of
(05:28):
January, just a few weeks, I wasable to drive us from zero page
one rankings on important termsrelevant to SAS content, to 497.
Just to put some context aroundthat we did the math 497
rankings, the amount of trafficis actually driving for us is
worth something like $170,000annualized in paid traffic. But
(05:53):
this traffic converts in a thirdof the time, it's paid traffic,
and it comes in better informed.
And it's more valuable to us inevery single way. So just by
producing content, just bymaking the right content, we've
gone from paying absurd amountsof money on digital ads to
driving better quality leadsfaster. How do we do it? It's
(06:18):
all about leveraging the powerof the network, which is not
something you're going to findat all in traditional SEO
methodology. And as an exampleof this, here's an absolute
nonsense slide that I don'texpect any of you to make any
sense of this is actually a sortof two dimensional graph of
(06:38):
search behavior about the topicof hurricane season. And if you
were able to read this, if I'mable to read this, I don't know
if I am. Yeah, questions likeWill 2019 be a bad hurricane
season? This charts old for therecord, but I don't think
hurricane season changes a lot.
Is there a hurricane in Houston?
Was Harvey hurricane when ithits Houston? What are the most
deadly hurricanes see, at amoment in time, in 2019. If you
(07:03):
were to analyze all of thesearch behavior happening around
hurricane season, all of theseyellow and green and red dots
represent the terms that peopleactually search online. There's
they're semantically related.
But importantly, they'rerelated, because Google says
that they are. So what demandjump does what our technology
does, that nobody else is doingis we take that raw data, we
(07:24):
analyze it, think of it likethis, if I were to go onto a
search engine results page, andI were to type hurricane season,
and I see that there are peoplealso ask questions, and then I
see that there are relatedsearches. That happens for every
single search that you can makeon Google new stuff, and a few
really weird whitelisted orcensored once. If you were to
then go research and searchthose recommendations, you're
(07:46):
gonna get a different set ofrecommendations on those pages.
If you then go and search therecommendations from all of
those pages, you do that likethree or four times, you've
gotten insane amount of data.
And it's enough data that youcan start to understand, like on
this map, all of the differentways people search for
information about a topic that'simportant to your business. And
(08:09):
this is truly the totaladdressable market for organic
truck traffic for your business.
It's literally the table stakes,it's the lay of the land, it's
the price, it's the one thingthat you're actually trying to
get as much of as possible inorder to drive reliable organic
traffic to your business. Whatwe're doing is we're taking that
data we're analyzing, and we'refinding that in all of those
infinite customer journeyssomebody can take to learn about
(08:32):
a topic. There's certain phrasesthat come up again and again,
that two or three or even 40,people who are on completely
different journeys, startingwith completely different
questions ending in totallydifferent places, at some point
in their journey, end upsearching for the exact same
thing.
(08:52):
So we learned this, and wefigured out that if that's the
case, there's a new way toanalyze search terms and
keywords and to prioritize whatwe choose to write about.
Because I don't care what thesearch volume estimates are from
Google or from sem rush or fromany other tool on those terms
that happen to be commonlyshared across different
(09:12):
journeys. All I care about isthey're commonly shared across
different journeys. And if I canisolate as many of those terms
as possible, use a littlemachine learning to look at
those tools, or look at thosekeywords and see which ones are
the most commonly searchedquestions, I suddenly start to
have a roadmap, a roadmap forcontent that I can write. That
(09:34):
is a completely prescriptivestrategy. It's something that in
and of itself tells me what todo. And so when we first decided
that we were going to work onthis, what we did is we
experimented a ton we figuredout like okay, what are some
different frameworks for contentthat we can start borrowing from
in order to take this data andput it to use and one of the
things we really liked was topicclusters or pillars. The idea
(09:56):
that you would have main topicsthat you care about with linked
content to it, we took thatinformation. And we just
experimented with it as much aswe possibly could. We said,
Okay, let's experiment withdifferent lengths of content.
Let's experiment with differentways of linking the content
together. And in the end, whatwe came up with was, and this is
just a really simple I mean,this is like not for external
(10:17):
use, really, this is like ourinternal plan and how we did it.
But we found these terms, and wedecided that we would, we would
write about things like SAScontent, that would be a pillar
page. Marketing, SAS companieswould be a sub pillar page, more
on that in a moment. And thenunderneath those, we would also
have blog posts that answeredvery specific questions like,
What is SAS product marketing?
How is SAS marketing different?
(10:42):
And then this completelygrammatically incorrect one, how
digital marketing can help us asbusiness? If I were to see those
questions in a keyword researchtool, there's a good chance that
the search volume estimate wouldbe zero, because Google doesn't
share search volume estimatesfor questions. And a lot of the
tools out there are getting alot smarter about that and
(11:02):
making their own estimates. Butin terms of buying potential in
terms of like a purchase intent,these questions don't seem to
make a lot of sense for a brandthat wants to sell software to
somebody who's doing SAScontent. And yet, amongst all of
the internet, views are thequestions that come up again,
and again and again and again.
So the pillar page, sub pillarpages and blog posts. After
(11:25):
experimenting, we learned thatwe can take that network and
turn it into a sort of ahierarchy like this, where a
pillar page was sort of the mainhub for all content on the
domain about the topic of SAScontent, those sub pillar pages
would contain the focus keywordof the pillar page and link up
to it. And then blog posts woulddo the same for sub pillars and
(11:45):
blogs are and pillars. OnePillar page was 3000 words,
roughly, is about as long as wethink we need to go with these
pillar pages in order toactually serve the network
effect and get the hub effectthat we're going for. And
that'll be our sort of longestbut most broad page of content
(12:06):
about SAS content on our on ourwebsite, it's sort of like a
survey, a quick synopsis of whatare the what are the high
points, what are the big thingsthat we need to cover. And then
those six sub pillar pages haveabout 2000 words, they were the
things like marketing, SAScompanies. So again, we're gonna
stay broad in the topic ofmarketing, SAS companies, but
(12:27):
we're going to also be able togo a lot more specific into that
with this content than we wouldif we covered that topic in the
pillar page. And then 20supporting blogs, we're about
750 words, these are about astandard blog, as you can
imagine, they're just simple,short, to the point blogs that
answer the question that peoplereally care about, and then
actually go a little bit furtherto only talk about the aspects
(12:48):
of that, that people have toldus they want to know, altogether
27 pieces of content, we wrotethat content in four weeks, I
have a big writing team. So it'seasy for me to do that. The
point remains, though, that welearned through experimentation,
another big thing that we dodifferent than the normal SEO,
we don't write 20 pieces ofcontent over five, five months
(13:09):
and publish them one or two blogposts a week, we wait till it's
all done, all approved, allloaded up into our CMS. And then
we hit go on everything all atthe same time. And that's how we
got to these results. Just a fewweeks later, we went from 497 to
606. And I actually forgot toupdate the slide before I came
(13:33):
here. Now we're at like 660,something that counts is just
sitting there, we're not doinganything with it. But over time,
it's become an appreciatingasset that is now driving an
insane amount of traffic. We gota question, are we
I just don't know if like ifit's okay to interrupt you and
(13:54):
ask questions.
I mean, I'll let it slide, Iguess. All right, thank you.
Well, plenty of time forquestions at the end, by the
way, but go for it. So on theprevious page.
No, the one that had the thisone. So is it like a ladder
where you're having keywords atthe bottom of the those choice
(14:15):
supporting blogs support or havesent similar keywords to the six
that have similar to the one? Soyou're laddering up? Or is it
not based on the keywords?
It's entirely based on thekeywords, but it's based on it
in a different way. They'regonna as much as possible each
one of these is going to targetdifferent keywords. So I'd have
a slide that like breaks thisdown, and I'll show you exactly
(14:36):
what that looks like. But fornow, just suffice and you know,
scratch that itch for you. Theidea is that across something
like this, we'd probably end uptargeting something like 250
keywords total. And thosekeywords aren't chosen because
they drive a lot of value orvolume or that they look like
they're high purchase intent orthey have low competition so we
(14:58):
feel confident we're going torank for them, they're chosen,
because we know they reflectwhat people actually care about
on this topic. And that has ahuge impact. And I'll explain
exactly why. Beyond the obviouswell, when someone gets here,
they like what they see. So theystay. We think there's a really,
really specific reason whythat's a great question. And I
promise you, I'm gonna give youmore detail in like, four or
five slides. Thank you. You'rewelcome. And this, the last
(15:22):
results site I'll show is,we've, we've done a lot of
pillars now, demand jump, butjust our last three of them.
This is this isrepresentational. It's 2776,
page, one keywords over probablyabout 50 pieces of content
total. And that's just overnightsuccess that keeps sustaining
(15:45):
and keeps going. And some ofthese republished at least two
years ago, in some cases, three.
And it's not, I mean, it'sreally easy for me to get up
here and talk about demand jump,because we're the experts at
this. And so we do it forourselves. It literally does not
matter what industry, you're inwhat topic you want to rank for
how much farther along yourcompetition is, because our
competition are like the bigones, the ones that you all know
(16:07):
and have heard of HubSpotSEMrush H refs, these are the
biggest names in content ContentMarketing Institute, I love
those guys. I get webinars withthem all the time. And we still
want to kick their asses off thefront page, because we don't
want to be in their spot. Right.
So like, even though they'vebeen the experts on content
marketing for years, we're ableto supplant them for a lot of
(16:28):
different topics, because ofthis approach. Oh, yeah, there's
a lot more there's, so we got Imean, we got b2b, we got small
businesses, we got enterprise,we've got people selling
widgets, e commerce, we gotpeople selling services, we got
people selling software, it doesnot matter. What matters is this
network approach. There's noshortcuts here, this is not
(16:48):
something that we're exploitinga weakness in the algorithm. And
when the algorithm updates,we're gonna get screwed. I live
through Panda, like many of youprobably did, and I don't want a
lawsuit on my hands. So if wedon't do that, we don't exploit
something that we know Googlesays not to do. In fact, every
time the algorithm has updatedsince we began implementing
(17:08):
this, all of the rankings of usand every single practitioner of
PBM, that uses our platform havegone up pretty much instantly
overnight. It's because we'reusing data in a smart and
prescriptive way. And we'reusing a methodology that at this
point in time has been proven,and it works every time. So now,
the meat and potatoes, how doesit work? We're gonna give you a
(17:30):
high level. And then if you wantto talk more, I'll give you the
deeper level after this. Sonumber one, your first job is to
identify the mission critical,short tail keyword, your
business wants to be on page onefor something like SAS content,
something like five gallonbuckets. And that's not a joke.
One time I had a customer thatliterally just sells five gallon
buckets, and they compete withLowe's and Home Depot for him.
(17:52):
We got him one in number oneposition for five gallon buckets
over national brands. And also,I learned that people care about
five gallon buckets. There'slike more than two questions,
people ask about five gallonbuckets. It's amazing. But
Google is tracking this stuff.
So we can benefit from that. Nowwe do that by taking a look at
all the different topics that wethink are important. So if your
(18:13):
business has five or sixcategories of products or
services, if you have differentpersonas you serve different
markets you work in, you mighthave several different options
that could make sense. And youmight be led to choose one of
those options based on what youthink is your highest priority
as a business. But actually, wefound that in the data, if you
if you map these networks, likethat hurricane season graph, and
(18:34):
you look at your position forkeywords within that network,
all throughout the top 10 pagesof search results, and also the
positions of your competitionthe people you want to be taking
traffic away from this, thisapproach gives you very, very
solid clarity on what yourstrongest opportunity is what
topic to focus on, where youshould begin your pillar based
marketing efforts because weknow where you have the most
(18:57):
ground to catch up and where youhave the biggest opportunity to
drive traffic and take it awayfrom your competition. So next,
once you've felt good enoughthat you've got a pillar topic
that works, you take a deep diveinto the entire network of
search behavior around thisnetwork. At demand job, what we
do is we automate that by justsearching literally everything
(19:18):
collecting 1000s of keywords,and then finding those patterns
that I talked about looking forall those inflection points and
connection points where peoplewho are learning in different
ways end up asking the samequestions and that drives the
recommendations we make. And theonly metric we care about is
connectedness, how connected isa term across disparate journeys
(19:38):
in the Search Network. It's notsomething you're going to find
in any other tool because it'snot something people are even
thinking about. And then onceyou know what those important
prioritize terms are, you builda pillar strategy following
these, these best practices.
Again, you start with 16 pieces.
We found trial and error thatyou don't need to write 27 have
(19:58):
been 28 pieces. In fact, thefirst time we did this, we wrote
90 pieces of content, which wasnot a really solid story to
sell, like I did I tell people,This is amazing. But we had to
write 90 pieces of content todrive results. People are like,
okay, cool, I'll see you in twoyears, right? So. But now, we
found that the network effect,the thing at work here that
makes this so good, it canhappen with just 16 pieces of
(20:21):
content. So it's one pillar pagewith 3000 Plus words, three sub
pillar pages of 2000 plus words,and then 12, supporting blogs.
And you'll notice that there'sonly nine supporting blogs on
there. That's because offscreen, somewhere over here,
there's three more blogs thatlink directly up to the pillar
page. And they do that becausewe want to make sure that we're
sending the right signal thatthat pillar page is a hub that
(20:42):
in and of itself defines therest of the content so that the
content serves the pillar page,the pillar page serves the rest
of the content. Next, we createcontent that's focused solely on
answering questions, and wethrow out old SEO tricks. So as
we dive deeper into writing aspecific article and deciding
what we're going to talk aboutthat network, again, hurricane
(21:04):
season, it serves as a really,really helpful guide, because
let's say we've picked one ofthose bubbles in that network.
And we're gonna write aboutcontent marketing types. That's
what we have on screen here.
Well, we can spatiallyunderstand people who search
content marketing types, whatare the recommendations from
Google's recommendation engineabout the questions people also
(21:26):
ask when they search that, andnot just there, but because of
the way that we are analyzingseveral different possible
futures? For someone who'ssearching this topic, we can
actually make a list ofrecommendations that you can
choose from that tell you if youanswer these specific questions.
These are the questions peoplego and search after they search
this first topic, because thosewere the gag answers they
(21:47):
actually wanted. And they didn'tknow they wanted until they
didn't find them. Does that makesense? We're seeing how the
collective mind thinks about agiven topic and how they want to
learn about it. And so what wedo is we start with those
questions, we start withquestions, and we use them as
the h2 in articles. So we buildan outline around those
questions. And what that does isit locks a writer into only
(22:10):
focusing on the parts of thisthat somebody actually cares
about. Because if I were to givecontent marketing types as a, as
a title to four differentwriters, I'm going to get four
completely different articles,they're going to have different
four different ways of category,categorizing content marketing
types, they're going to focus ondifferent aspects of how you how
you discern between the four.
But if I say no, these are thequestions that we need to answer
(22:31):
in this article. That article isgoing to get a lot closer than
those four holes might be a lotcloser. And then beyond that,
we're going to pick a few otherkeywords that just sort of
naturally once we know whatquestions we're going to answer
naturally fit into that. Andthey're going to come from the
same list because those keywordslike those questions are
spatially related in thenetwork. So for a pillar page
(22:53):
3000 Plus words, we do about 20keywords, and half of those
would be h2. So we'll pick 10questions that will serve as our
h2, and then another 10keywords, including the title to
just sprinkle in throughout 16for sub pillars again, half and
half questions and keywords, andthen eight for those supporting
blogs, half and half. That meansthere's only four headings and a
(23:16):
750 word blog. And we don'tworry about keyword density,
like Yoast SEO can just kickrocks, we don't listen to it at
all. There's no There's nokeyword cannibalization, there's
no use this keyword so manytimes, just write it as humanly
as you possibly can and makesure you touch on these topics.
(23:38):
And you follow the internallinking strategy, and you
publish the content. Now youdrop that content in three quick
ways, if you have to this isdepending on how healthy your
site is, how frequently youpublish content, your mileage is
gonna vary here. Sometimes itcan take you a day or two to get
a page of content index on yoursite. But what we tell people is
(24:01):
drop your pillar page first,because it's the hub, and then
go to Google Search Console andrequest indexing. And if it
indexes right away, right away,publish the sub pillars. And if
that index is right away, rightaway, publish the blogs. At this
point, our site is so healthy,we'll literally just publish it
all at once. Now, why is that?
It's because no one article isdesigned to rank for any one
(24:22):
term, even though we're focusingon answering questions. We're
not concerned with how this onearticle on content marketing
types, is going to compete withthe other articles about content
marketing types. What we careabout is that network graph,
because that network graphmirrors Google's own
recommendation engine, which isbased on Google's ample
(24:42):
observation of just millions,maybe billions example of
examples of how people searchfor information. When we drop
that network as a whole. Googleisn't looking at just an
individual piece of content.
They're looking at an entirenetwork of content that is
optimized, and that may actionsthe user experience Google knows
is already the real world, whichmeans you're an authority
(25:05):
instantly. Google isn't havingto decide if it's one page of
content isn't authority. They'renot having to look at domain
authority to decide whether ornot you're an authoritative
brand. By the way, I've beenkeeping track of this, I've got
a whole other presentation onthis domain authority means
nothing. It means absolutelynothing. We haven't paid for a
backlink ever. We haven't askedfor a backlink ever. We don't
(25:27):
tell our customers to do iteither. When you do this, it
works. And so we have never,never asked or paid for a
backlink. But we're on page onefor so many terms that we've got
like 20,000, we don't even haveto ask where they just come in
because we have authoritativecontent. And so all Google knows
is that what you've writtenmirrors its own network, you're
(25:47):
recreating part of Google's ownnetwork understanding of
behavior running topic on yourwebsite, and that whole network,
because of the linking, andbecause of the way that we're
you know, sort of relatingeverything together becomes just
a whole lot more authoritativethan an individual piece could
ever be. And because we'rechoosing to talk about questions
and keywords, and things thatare less obvious, that maybe
(26:08):
don't have a high purchaseintent, don't have a High search
volume aren't the things that wewould actually pay attention to,
if we were looking at atraditional SEO tool. Google
knows we're not just trying tosell something awesome, kind of
we are, but it doesn't look likewe are because we're actually
before anything else providingvalue. We're really answering
the real world questions peopleare asking that makes us an
(26:29):
authority. And Google's job morethan anything else is just to
measure authority, and to decidewho deserves to be on top. Now,
the only thing other thanlearning from this data and
writing this content andpublishing it all at once that
we do that we found really,really works well is we'll take
a little bit of our paid budget,and when we publish that content
(26:49):
will drive a little bit ofqualified traffic to those pages
right away. The reason for thatis this content is so freakin
good. It's so aligned with whatthe market in general wants to
know about any topic, that whenthey get there, they, they read
it, they stay on the page, andthen they click to other pages.
In fact, I've had a lot ofmarketers say to me 3000 words
is absolutely preposterous for apage of content, nobody's going
(27:11):
to read it, and it's going tolook stupid on our site. And yet
across, I want to say hundreds,but it might just be dozens of
customers, I don't want to likeoverstate it. The average time
on page for a pillar page fromthe pillar race Marketing
methodology is about 15 minutes.
Compare that to what the averageis for all of the internet in
2023, which is about two minutesfor any any given web page.
(27:34):
People are actually reading thiscontent because it's what they
want before they even know thatthey want it. And so in order to
prove that that content is good,we just drive some traffic there
right away, we'll use, we useOutbrain. It's a really nice,
like easy, cheap syndicationtool, but your audience might be
on LinkedIn, it might be on onFacebook, Instagram, depending
on your industry, as long asyou're driving some traffic that
(27:57):
is actually in your targetaudience, and you're doing it
across that whole network. Andfor us, we'll spend as little as
$10, an article or as much as50. But still, it's so cheap
compared to the ongoing adspend, we need to put out there
in order to sustain the kind oftraffic we're going to get from
this in the long run. And thatjust kick starts it. And that's
what leads to that hockey stickchart where it just goes and
within days, not six months, nota year, like most SEO content,
(28:21):
we begin ranking. Finally, ifyou start with 16 pieces, you
might find that that gives you areally good start. It'll help
you convince yourself and yourboss, that this is worth
investing more into. You'regoing to get good rankings, but
you're gonna see that maybe yourcompetition has been at it
longer than Eunice's way. How doyou so you go about this in a
very natural way. And you justcontinue growing your network,
(28:43):
you look for the next highestpriority sub pillar topic, blog
topics, you add those asclusters to the network. Over
time, your coverage of thatmarket grows, and you begin
winning a bigger portion of themarket. And that's, I forgot I
had I thought I had a few moreslides. So that's the long and
(29:03):
short of it. If you've beenaround here, the last couple of
days demand jump our booth isright out there. I wrote the
book on this because I'm sopassionate about it if you can't
sell it's called pillar basedmarketing, a data driven
methodology for SEO and contentthat actually works. And we got
copies out there that wereselling for like six or $7 less
than there are they are online,it'll sign up for you if you
(29:24):
want it. But that book breaksdown how we found these mindset
shifts, why they're soimportant. And then goes into
great detail. Each one of thoseseven points that I made is an
entire chapter in that book. Sowe'll break down exactly how to
do this demand jump university,you can search for that. I also
have hours of video contentwhere I go through that
therapeutic session with you andsay I know I'm asking you to
(29:46):
forget a lot of things that youknow about SEO, but I ran an
agency for 10 years strugglingto sell content marketing. I had
a beautiful head of blonde hairwhen I started that agency Do I
care about driving value, I careabout looking someone that I'm
working with in the eye andsaying you invest in this,
you're going to get results, I'mnot going to waste your time,
(30:06):
I'm not going to waste yourmoney. When I found this
technology, I was like themandrup, you don't even know
what you have. I was the firstcustomer, I took it, I
experimented, I built thismethodology. And then I sold my
agency to demand jumps. So theycould send me places like this
and tell this story, because itliterally changed my life and
3x, my agency's revenue in about12 months, the difference
between selling content thatmight rank in six months to
(30:28):
content that always ranks in sixweeks is a big one. So I'll tell
that story in the book demandfrom university, you can learn
all those little details aboutwhy those mindset shifts are
important. And then of course,demand job.com, where you can
just come talk to us. Andactually, we're set up at the
booth to go ahead and startmapping your topic networks
right out the gate. So if youhave something that you want to
(30:49):
see, come tell us, we'll showyou what that network looks
like. We'll shoot you an emailright away. So we're here for
the rest of the day. Thank youfor your time. This has been a
pleasure. And I think we haveplenty of time for questions, if
there are any.
(31:09):
Any questions? All right, we gotone here. Yep. Can you hear me?
Yes.
I do have a question when youbuild your real close
real? Because therethat Yeah. Okay. When you build
your keyword strategy, youmentioned that you use like a
cascading number of keywords,you use 20 for the pillar 16 for
the sub pillar and so forth.
(31:31):
Yeah. How do you approach thatkeyword cloud that you'll be you
start with 40. And you spreadthat out, and you'll add or you
just like lower the density asyou go down.
It's just a matter of links.
It's like a function of byanalyzing what tends to show up
on page one, in top positions,for short for shorter tail
(31:54):
turns, that contents usuallybigger, it's usually more
comprehensive, it has more goingon. So we did a lot of analysis,
and then trial and error to getto that. So we realized that if
we want to be at about 3000words, which matches the general
target length of other contentthat's deemed good enough to be
on page one. About 10 questionsis how how many questions we can
(32:17):
like comfortably answer withoutgoing too long or too short in
that time. And we did it longenough that like this is not a
hard and fast rule. It's likewhat Pirates of the Caribbean,
it's like more of a suggestion,right than a rule. It's like, if
you write a 2000 word, pillarpage, because that felt like the
right amount of length, and youcovered everything, and you only
worked in 16 key words, do that.
(32:40):
But I've done this enough, whenyou're speaking at conferences,
when you're telling people abouta new thing. I know it'll work
if you do that. So if you followthose, those guidelines, more
than rules, it'll work for you.
So it's a function of that. Andthen when when it comes to like,
disseminating the keywordsthroughout the entire strategy.
We don't do keyword research forthe whole strategy, we just we
figure out what topics we'regoing to write about. And then
(33:02):
in demand jump, for example, wehave a function where you say
I'm writing about contentmarketing types, we'll then go
and we'll map just that part ofthe network for you and give you
that list of Well, here's thequestions and keywords that are
most important to people who arealso looking into this. So then,
like for us, our writers aretrained in how to analyze the
network. So our writers, whengiven a topic will go in and
(33:24):
they'll find this data andthey'll choose their keywords
themselves. A lot of people,it's the strategist who sets it
for the whole the whole group,but that would come after you've
set your whole strategy. Soyou're kind of really focusing
on each article. What is themost important stuff for this
topic? Does that answer yourquestion?
(33:46):
Yeah, we got a few more. I lovethose things. It's so cool.
It's pretty cool. Sorry, I don'tknow if this is a technical
question or a style one. But youstarted to speak about
clustering. About whatclustering about clusters. So I
just wanted to understand,effectively, the proprietary
(34:09):
element, or one of theproprietary elements is how you
identify that those clusters andhow you put those together. I'm
just wondering to the extentthat you can reveal, and sorry,
if I misinterpreted it, yeah. Tothe extent you can reveal what
will be the next stage like whatdo you want to then later maybe
have an output that comes fromthat automatically? Do you
(34:32):
already have that? I'm trying tounderstand the link between
where the technology is active,and where what you present to a
client is active because itsounds amazing. And obviously,
we'll talk more but yeah,so I think AI is changed that.
The answer that questioncompletely. Right now, in terms
of how we're supporting thisworkflow. Over the next like two
or three months, we're makingsome big changes to the demand
(34:54):
jump application itself. I haverecently developed a new
authority To score to replacethe old domain authority score
called topic authority. It's allabout coverage. And so we're
going to be able to start makingusing AI much more prescriptive
recommendations about, well, thenetwork shifts over time, and
maybe some content you targetedrecently isn't important
anymore. So you need to targetother content. So we're doing a
(35:16):
little bit with that and alittle bit with like how we
output those content briefs. Butwhat's going to be really
exciting is when AI is able tostart doing some contextual
work. One of the things thatwe've already been testing is,
if for example, you've told usyou want to write about a
certain topic, we'll go andwe'll we'll look at the top five
pages on Google and then use AIto summarize, like, what do they
(35:40):
have in common? Or is thereanything they don't have in
common, so you can start gettingmore of a competitive analysis,
what you should focus on. Sothat's the future that's coming
probably in about six months,we're all doing the same thing,
trying to catch up with AI andhow it's ruining everything for
everybody, but also making itsuper awesome. And so we're
keeping on that, but but how thesausage is made and kind of it's
(36:03):
just really it's statisticalanalysis. I mean, it's a data
model. It's math at work here,statistically, these are the
terms that you should writeabout and you should rank for.
And as long as you followbasically, those seven best
practices, you are going tounderstand exactly what to do
every time. And it's just sortof repeatable. Does that answer
the heart of your question? Oris there something more specific
(36:26):
I can get into? Cool, yeah,that's what I love about this.
So I'm a writer, first andforemost, like I started a
marketing agency because Iwanted to get paid to write. And
I published a lot done a lot oflike fiction, that's who I am at
my core, but like thismethodology is equal parts
science and art. Like I like totalk about Shakespeare's
(36:46):
sonnets. Who here doesn't give acrap about Shakespeare sonnets?
Anybody? Yeah, same. Most peopledon't. And those of you who
didn't raise your hands, you'relying to yourself, I know you
are, and the rest of us. But thething that your teachers never
tell you about Shakespearesonnets is, there's 180 of them.
And they all have the same rhymescheme. They all have the same
(37:07):
leader. And they all aredifferent. They tell completely
different stories. And when yousit in an English class, and you
read those things, they'reincredibly boring. But then you
remember that in ElizabethanEngland, like everybody was
illiterate, nobody could read.
So the idea of like writingthese things, in the same
(37:30):
written rhyme scheme in the samemeter, every time meant that
like, it's more likely hisaudience at the pub, is going to
remember the dude who gets up inrecites is like his latest son.
So like him understanding thestructure within he could
operate to be creative, is whatmade him someone we talked about
to this day, it's not that hewas particularly gifted anything
else, he just understood that.
And I think this methodology,while definitely not
(37:54):
Shakespeare, it's the same idea.
It's like, give me my structure.
But within that structure,there's so much room for
creativity. And I really likedthat about this as you can bring
your own art to it. But then youstart with the science, you
know, you're making gooddecisions. Sorry for the English
lesson. In the back. Thanks.
(38:19):
I wanted to know when you talkedabout the syndication of the
content, you mentioned aboutqualifying the traffic, I wanted
to have a better understandingis the intent to have like a
better feeling if this is highquality traffic? Or do you think
it's something that actuallysupports and indexation and
support a natural ranking?
That's a good question. It is100%, about the ranking. The
(38:41):
reason we want qualified trafficis because if these pieces were
to rank on top, they're going tostart driving traffic that is
inherently qualified, becausesomebody had to search for the
term that we're targeting inorder to get their way to the
blog. So everybody reading thatblog, is someone who cares about
that topic. If we were to justlike, drive a bunch of traffic
there. And it wasn't people whocared about the topic. They're
(39:02):
not going to interact with thatpage, they're not going to read
it. And so the engagement isgoing to look off. Google
doesn't care about the contentitself. Beyond some basic stuff
that we all probably know aboutright now, what Google cares
about is how humans interactwith your content. And if we can
drive traffic, that simulatesthe traffic that would be coming
organically. And they like whatthey see they stay on the page
(39:24):
longer than maybe click to otherparts of our network, they visit
other pages of our website.
That's another signal to Googlethat Ooh, not only do we know
that they're aligned with oursearch engine behavior mapping
and our recommendation engine.
We also know that when ouraudience gets there, they like
what they see. So it's just onemore signal to help us really
(39:44):
stand out. It's like a big oldred flag, maybe like a big old
bonfire signal to Google that,hey, we just dropped a ton of
content. It's reallyauthoritative. People are going
to it right away and they likeit. All of that together is what
makes it so that you don't haveto wait six months for rankings
to happen. You You can have itin a week or two weeks or
whatever it is. Good question.
Are you in the front? Let's getyou a mic. Make sure everyone
(40:07):
can hear you. Okay. Catch it.
Hi, I wanted to ask you aboutauthorship signals. So you
mentioned you have a team ofwriters do they publish under
their names? Do you include theauthor byline, or with your
(40:29):
approach, it kind of isn'trelevant because you create such
a strong hub of content that itjust gives the authority to the
brand is and the the content ispublished on the brand website,
positioning it as a subjectmatter expert. Yeah,
I think it's the latter. Likedifferent people do it
differently. Like we'll havecustomers, especially who are in
(40:49):
like, manufacturing space, forexample. And they haven't really
gotten through their digitaltransformation yet. And their
sights kind of old, like theydon't even have the authorship
thing going, it'll still workfor them. On our site. We do put
the actual writers name on everysingle piece of content. So
across a 27 piece pillar, wemight have 14 different writers,
(41:11):
and they're all in house. And ifGoogle cares, and I don't know
if they do or not, if Googlehere, they're gonna see that the
same writers are publishingcontent on our site regularly.
But I just I don't think itmatters because we've never
really had it go worse becauseof that, or we'll never be able
to isolate that is a problembefore. It's a really good
question. And I'll take theopportunity to expand and say
(41:33):
that like, the only thing thatseems to matter is the linking.
We've learned that you link upthe way that I talked about, you
can also link between blog postsand pillar or between, you know,
from a sub pillar down to a blogpost. So you want to be
contextual, and sort of providea choose your own adventure
style experience, like letpeople go on the journey they
(41:54):
want to just like, we know, theyare on Google anyway. So things
like where the pillar page livesin your site structure doesn't
really matter. A lot of times,you'll put it on like a category
page, or like a product page orservice page, but it doesn't
really matter whether or not asub pillar deciles under like
pillar slash blah slide likethat doesn't matter. The blog's
(42:14):
can live where they areauthorship like tagging
categories, none of that reallymatters. What matters is the
contents on the domain. And it'sall linked together in the right
way. And as long as you do that,it should work. Any other
questions? All right. We're atexactly 10 minutes early, but I
(42:38):
think that's good enough to callit right, right. in great shape.
Everybody give Mr. Ryan Brock awarm round of applause thanking
him first.
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