PR for Podcasters - Tonya McKenzie, Sand & Shores

 | elevating and optimizing your digital footprint | reputation management | crisis communications online.

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:01):
Who in here is with a company that has a podcast? Can
you lift up your pen for me? Whoin here is with a company that's
considering having a podcastthat is thought about it that's
kind of bounced it around a bit.
Who in here has a side hustleand they podcast? Awesome. So

(00:22):
we're going to be able todiscuss some of these items, I
could talk about this stuffforever. So I'm really going to
try to condense it. I want tomake sure that I have time for
questions and answersafterwards. But also understand
that some of this stuff could beused for you in whatever
position that you're in. Becausewhat we know for sure is that

(00:43):
these days, your brand iseverything, your personal brand,
your business brand, it'severything. And it actually
comes even before PR even beforeyou hop on a podcast, or before
you launch a podcast. So yes,we're going to talk about PR for
podcasts, and we're going tolead with our brand. I run sandy
shores, it's a public relations,communications and leadership

(01:08):
firm. I specialize in yourdigital reputation, your
company's digital reputation,your digital reputation, you
know, the first thing thatpeople do when you say, who you
work for, or even your name islook you up. And your digital
footprint is everything. I don'tthink that people recognize how
important it is. I'm sure youguys all do. But even getting

(01:31):
people to understand that hasbeen a challenge. I have a
strong passion about reputation.
Why? Because most people didn'tknow anything about me. Until I
wrote my own book. They had thisimage of who they thought I was
or who they thought, you know,my company was and what they

(01:52):
represented. I am I'm a gunviolence survivor. I'm from the
Bay Area. I lived in ContraCosta County, I've been on three
Commission's now I serve LACounty Commission for alcohol
and other drugs. I do all thisstuff. And I still run a PR firm
and a leadership firm and I loveit. But my backstory is

(02:15):
incredibly important. Well, whyis that? Because it qualifies me
to talk about a lot of thethings that I talk about your
story, and your company's brandstory qualifies you for so many
things. And if you don't happento every aspect of it, you lose
opportunity to connect withcustomers to connect with other

(02:37):
business owners to connect withthe people that sometimes you
are trying to build businesswith and build community with.
So every iota of the elements ofyour company's brand or of your
personal brand. They deserve tobe told they deserve a place in
the story. Public relations, wetalk a lot in here about

(03:00):
marketing, right? We're gonnatalk a lot about public
relations, they cousins, they'renot brothers and sisters.
They're like cousin eat eachother. But they're not the same.
What is it? And why does itmatter? The professional
maintenance of a favorablepublic image of your show, so
I'm setting up your show, but ifyou guys don't have a show with

(03:21):
your company, right? ReputationManagement is an element of
public relations. Many peopleare dealing with think public
relations is just all aboutcelebrities and getting media.
But there's so many things thatgo into the communication of
your brand or have your podcastto be able to make sure that

(03:41):
your reputation is elevated andsustained. PR means managing the
flow of information about you,your show, or your company to
the public. The goal is toinstill a high level of
confidence in the public thatyour show or your company, right

(04:03):
is a good investment in theirtime and in their money. Many
companies and organizationscompete for limited media space.
So you have to stand out. Here'swhat's important now, especially
since they kind of brought itup, you know about there's a few
things they brought up. But onething that's important to
understand is being trustedthese days, is we don't trust

(04:30):
media outlets the way we want usto. We just don't there's
there's numbers around thispodcast. I happen to be
positioned now to be the expertin their industry. So whether
you have a podcast at yourcompany, and they are serving a
niche or you want to be on apodcast or have your executives

(04:52):
on a podcast. These now serve asnews outlets in a way because
they serve a particularaudience. And if people are
listening, they're a trustedsource. For news for information
for updates for trends, you'regonna get things from a podcast

(05:14):
that you can't get from CNN techin 30 seconds, right? So if your
company is either on there orhost one, people are coming to
that channel, because they trustthem. And then they're getting
shared out because they trustthem. Marketing is people
telling the audience, peopletelling the public how amazing

(05:36):
they are. Public relations issomeone telling someone else how
amazing you are. So to be onsomeone's podcast is saying, I
trust that this person is agreat source of information. So
to already get put on someoneelse's platform, they're saying,
I trust this person. I've vettedher, she's gonna give them

(05:56):
information. I like her here,you should like her here to
check her out, see what she'sdoing. Your executives should be
on podcasts, even if you host apodcast, you should still be on
other people's platforms,because there are people in the
space that are trusted, that aresaying you too, are someone that
should be trusted, you too, aresomeone that is credible, you to

(06:19):
have something that is useful,and will make business life
better. Because that's what wedo. We have services. And we
have products that we'rebasically saying this is going
to improve someone's quality oflife or someone's business,
right. So someone getting thatplatform is that it's a third
party endorsement. That is thebiggest difference between your

(06:41):
cousin's marketing and PR. statsthat matter. I think in this
time and age, numbers matter. Idon't want you to just trust me
when I say podcasting isimportant. But there are over 5
million podcast and 70 millionepisodes available. Over 464

(07:02):
point 7 million people listeningto podcast. So just like they
talked about, people scroll forhours listening to tick tock.
You are working, they'relistening to podcasts. They
might not be watching the wholetime, but they're in the
background. They hear whatthey're saying. YouTube now has
podcasting. So they have theregular stuff, and they have

(07:22):
podcast channels now. Soeverywhere you go, just like on
Tiktok. And even with tick tock,people are really sharing their
episodes on tick tockpodcasting, millions of people
are listening worldwide. Daily,the average person listens to
five podcasts per week. The mostpopular genre podcast or comedy,

(07:44):
news and education, news andeducation is where you fall in
mostly, unless you have someonethat makes jokes about what you
do. But then that's a wholedifferent conversation. But your
news and your education andyou're talking to people about
your products and your services.
They're out there, let's tubethe three most popular genres of
podcasting, gender, the majorityof podcasters are men. But

(08:06):
female podcasters areincreasing. So if it's something
that you thought about, thinkabout it this way you're needed
in that space, ladies, yourvoice is needed, your point of
view is needed, the way youinterpret information is needed
in that space. And sometimes menlike to hear us talk to so you

(08:28):
know, there's that location mostpodcasters are worldwide, but
the majority are in the UnitedStates. What does that mean for
companies that are global ortrying to be global is there
people are watching ourpodcasts, podcasts that are done
here. They're trying to get inthe mix. So they want what you
have to offer, even though it'sanother option, just the option

(08:51):
they want that so looking moreappealing. American podcaster
and podcast are where they wantto be take advantage of that.
The majority of podcasters arebetween the age of 25 and 44.
Depending on who your targetaudience is, right, you want to
take that into consideration. In2022, the global podcasting

(09:15):
market was estimated to be worth18 point $52 billion and
growing. So there's money outthere. There's opportunities to
collaborate. There'sopportunities to partner with
other brands. They're spendingthe money on good podcasts on
good content creators on peoplethat can talk about the subject

(09:36):
matter that's important in yourindustry. The majority of
podcast revenue comes fromadvertising, with brands paying
to have their ads placed onpopular podcasts. Other sources
of revenue include obviouslysponsorships, subscription and
sales. What are you sellingtheir space for that in the As

(09:58):
industryas a podcaster, your best
opportunities to get coverageinclude you doing the following.
So now we're talking about ifyou decide to launch a podcast,
or if your company already has apodcast, what are they doing
besides just publishing? Whatelse? What else are you doing
with it? You want to submitpress releases to announce big

(10:20):
shows that are coming up. I seeit all the time. When there are
big influencers or big names inthe industry, they don't just do
the podcast, it's shows upeverywhere. It's in my news
feed, it shows up on otherpodcasts that we're watching on
my YouTube channel, you do apress release, and you get as

(10:42):
much press around the big names.
Editorial coverage is king. Soin media, shooting it out to
different journalists that wantto hear about or put it like
this, there are journalists thatcan get an interview with maybe
someone that is on your podcast,this is a great opportunity to

(11:04):
say and this is what he said inshowing clips, or subscribe, let
me send you this link. Becausethey're going to listen, and
they're going to see where theycan find opportunity for content
or to connect. Because at theend of the day, that's what it's
all about. It's someone sayingsomething that triggers
something in you or something inyour audience, he might say

(11:25):
something that appeals to yourbuyer. Those are the types of
things that you then have accessto, to be able to amplify. And
journalists love it. Becauseyes, editorial coverage is king.
Now, online, offline writers,journalism publishers, they just
need content. Now, now with ChetGVT, doing all the work, they

(11:49):
start scrubbing, looking forsound bites. They're looking for
somebody that talks aboutwhatever it is that you're
covering, then you get thecoverage. So podcasting is a
great way for your company, oryou or your side hustle to start

(12:09):
getting media coverage. Again,that's a third party endorsement
that you yourself can't give.
Right? You can tell people howamazing the product and the
services all day long, but whensomeone else says it, oh, yeah,
then we have a littlecredibility going on. via live
events. Also, for those of youthat are looking for ways to
elevate your brand, yourcompany, being invited to live

(12:32):
events for you to be there as apodcast or talking live with
speakers talking live withpeople that just come and visit
your organization. I know atDeloitte, they do that now, they
will have they have a podcaststudio, where when they're
having meetings, sometimes theywill head and set up an

(12:53):
opportunity for whoever thisdignitary is that came in to
visit. So now they have thevisit and the deal they were
working on. And now they havesnippets of podcasting that
they've done. There's so manyopportunities to help elevate
and supplement the marketingthat organizations are doing
with podcasting. What is publicrelations have to do with

(13:17):
podcasting? Most people arelooking to get on podcast as a
part of their PR strategy, asyou can use them as part of your
own. If you're trying to growyour own career, right, you're
trying to find ways to elevateyour own personal branding
company. Be selective about yourguests that you're putting on
your podcast and make it workfor you. This is the art of

(13:39):
defining your podcast brand andgrowing your organization's
positive PR coverage throughvarious different media
modalities. Again, they weretalking about what were you
doing on Twitter? Are you on TikTok? Podcasting is just another
way of having great content thatyou can spread throughout the
digital world. It's really whatit is. So let's dig into

(14:01):
effective branding PR andstorytelling for you because
what I've said and I stand bythis is branding comes before
all of this. I actually have apitch template if there's anyone
that needs it. I'll you know,I'd love to email it out if you
want to connect later. But thereare ways to get media's

(14:23):
attention for the work thatyou're doing in podcasting. But
let's talk about thestorytelling piece of it really
quick. Because, you know, itfeels like storytelling is such
a cliche word these days ofstorytelling and storytelling
like what is that? For me?

(14:43):
Storytelling starts withsomething that connects to the
audience that you are speakingto.
Go ahead okay. Cool. Awesomestorytelling, it starts with
something that connects to theaudience that you are speaking

(15:05):
to. So whether you're podcastingor storytelling in your
marketing, trigger, an emotionalresponse, hit a nerve. That's
how you start. How many of youhave watched went into a movie
theater in the beginning is soslow, you are like, you get to
the good stuff before I fallasleep. Same with your

(15:27):
storytelling on podcast. Samewith your storytelling in your
marketing, trigger a nerve,trigger an emotion, get right
into it, you don't have to slowwalk in. People aren't got
delayed gratification these daysAnyways, if we got their
attention, let's keep it. Ownit. Don't shy away from the
details. Put a face on it. Whoare the people involved? When

(15:51):
you are interviewing someonewhen you're talking about your
company? Who's involved? Who arethese people? Get descriptive.
Don't be afraid of maybe some ofthe not so pretty pieces of your
company. People want to knowthings haven't always been
sunshine and roses. Where wasthe tough stuff at? How did we

(16:14):
get through there put a face onthe people that are involved in
any of your storytelling relatedto us, let us know why we should
care. That's the first thing Ialways ask when someone's
talking like who are you? Andwhy should I care? While you are
in your storytelling? triggeryour audience in a way that lets

(16:34):
them know why they should careabout what you guys are talking
about? Whether it's on a podcastor in your marketing? Why should
they be listening? What is thisgoing to do for them? How is
this going to enrich them? Andthen your journey again? Take us
with you. Not just oh, it wassad. Oh, that was so hard. That

(16:55):
thing we did it was so hard. No,I want to know why it was hard.
I want to know where the hardestpart was. If you're hosting a
podcast, don't let your guestsoff easy. If you're on a
podcast, don't let them let youoff easy because you're going to
miss something that's going totrigger someone to either buy or

(17:18):
research more or dig in orconnect or look you up. Know
what you want when you go intothe conversation into the story
and get it. But you're not goingto get it by camouflaging the
face by hiding the ugly stuff.
We have to expose that becausethat is what connects people.

(17:39):
That is what connects us. Takeus on this journey with you. If
you were sad, walk us from whenyou were happy to when you got
sad what happened? Because thenwe get to ride that journey with
you. That's the connection.
That's where we go Oh, yeah, Iwant I'm gonna make sure I look

(18:00):
her up. Think about this. Idon't know when the last time we
actually looked at a papermagazine, right, a real magazine
hardcover. Open up the magazine,you have this beautiful front
page ad, which probably costsabout $20,000, if not more.

(18:20):
Don't know if you remember thelast ad last full page ad you
saw. But I bet you remember thelast story someone told you. I
bet you remember the last storythat made you think twice about
something you were doing, ormade you tear up or made you
decide to do somethingdifferent, or made you decide to
hug somebody in your family. Idon't remember the last ad I

(18:43):
saw. But I definitely rememberthe last story someone told me
that touched me. So podcastingis a way to help connect and
touch people that you want tocontinue to support your
organization. help grow yourbusiness by your services. might

(19:04):
sound a little emotional whenyou're talking about work, but
it's emotional people haveemotional wise, you get people
excited about the things thatyou're doing, but you got to
take him on this journey withyou. So I have I have a podcast
network. Because I like to talk.
No, I'm just kidding. I have itbecause I have people around me

(19:27):
that like to empower others.
It's important and they allserve a different purpose. If
you have a podcast at yourcompany, you can have various
different one maybe one is tosupport your staff. And the
other one is to support yourconsumer your product or your

(19:48):
service. You can have variousdifferent things going on, open
up the options, find ways toconnect at the end of the day.
That is what this is all aboutfinding ways to connect, and
bring people into your circle,bring people into your company,
bring people into what it isthat you are doing to make a

(20:08):
difference. So if you do this,right, okay, if you do this,
right, you have your podcasts,you have all these other things
that are going on in yourcompany. You learn how to pitch
the media, you let people knowwhat's going on. Also, let me

(20:30):
not forget this part. Publicrelations is really how you get
people to know like and trustyou. Again, trust is what is
lacking so much in our society.
So having the opportunity andhaving a tool that helps your
consumer learn to trust you.

(20:52):
There's a couple of things thathappen here. One, you're
consistent, right? You'vemastered your message, and
you're consistent with it. Youhave a pot, every time they go
to it, they know what they'regetting consistency, your
message consistent. They'restarting to trust you because
they see that the people thatyou're putting on and the
subjects that you arediscussing, oh, yeah, I learned

(21:14):
something. And please believethey're gonna go verify you
though the time he said this,let me go look. But
understanding that you haveopportunity to get people to
know like and trust you throughanother media outlet, and
sharing that out. One of mybiggest accomplishments, which

(21:35):
is crazy, is after we startedour podcast during the George
Floyd, upheaval in our countryover two years ago, me and my co
host, started working with blackpolice officers, because no one
was listening to them. Right. Itwas either defund the police, or

(22:02):
something else. We felt like theAfrican American police officers
did not have a voice. So we gotofficers together from every
state, we could think of everymajor state, we had Ohio, we, we
had Ohio, la Atlanta, Tennessee.
You had some Vegas. And we justtalked to them about different

(22:29):
things that they were doing.
Were the non bias your podcastis a non bias space. It's your
opportunity to ask questions,get answers, help people
discover new things. There arepeople that didn't want to have
anything to do with that backand forth. But I bet you one
thing, everybody learnedsomething. And from that we had

(22:53):
our first partnership with apolice department because they
decided we were a very nonbiased, but informational outlet
that then they trusted and thecommunity trusted. So they
worked with us, they would haveone officer a week come and just
talk about different issues thatno one else was really able to

(23:17):
touch or free to touch. Theywound up getting picked up for a
couple of awards and placed inthis magazine about oh, we heard
them on, you know, on yourpodcast, this is great. Can we
talk to them, they want to talkto them, they get placed. This
is the first time thatdepartment has ever been in a

(23:38):
publication. And since thenthey've been able to go on and
do greater things in theircommunity. All that being said,
you have the opportunity to makea difference in your industry.
Right. This is an opportunity toconnect and humanize what you
do. This is an opportunity foryou to have discussions around

(24:01):
some of the more intrinsicpieces in your industry that
maybe you know, you know gets alittle dicey. Maybe it's DNI,
maybe it's culture. But you havean opportunity to use tools. A
lot of tech tools now that canhelp you have an incredible

(24:24):
podcast, get your message out,elevate your brand, and unite
your community. So think aboutit, talk to your management
about it. If you're doing it onyour own. There are people out
there to help you. But know thatPR for your podcast. If you're
going to have one it can doincredible things for your

(24:47):
organization. And for youbecause when people go to Google
you now then they'll see yourname attached to all these
awesome conversations.
So that's it for me today totalk to you about PR for your
podcast. But if you have anyspecific questions, I'm here to
answer any and all. Any specificquestions for agencies and

(25:15):
yeah, and they are like, oh,we'll do a podcast. And they'll
have like four topics of apodcast. And then that's it. And
it's like, what's our promotionplan? Like, what's our long term
plan? And there's just silence.
No one has any other thoughtsother than, like, let's create a
podcast, they don't even knowwhere they're gonna put it. So
is that like a pretty bigfoundational, like, do you feel

(25:37):
like you have to have at least ayear long plan of how many
you're going to release? Like,how often you're going to do it?
Where are you going to put it?
Like, how are you going to makesure that it's successful? And
at what point do you say, youknow, after six months, if you
have no listeners? Do you justsay like, Okay, that's it, we're
done. Try something different,you know, like,

(26:00):
what are your thoughts on allthat? Okay, so there's various I
reverse engineer everything, Ibelieve in reverse engineering,
what are you trying toaccomplish here? What are we
trying to? Are we just trying toget more subscribers to our
service? Are we trying to tell astory about this project that we
did over eight episodes, you canhave a limited podcast, you can

(26:22):
say, this is a limited podcast.
And by the time you're done,you're going to be able to A, B
and C. It could be learn projectmanagement. I have a guy that he
does did a limited series onmedia training. And he just has
snippets on eight podcasts.

(26:44):
That's it. Like, he's not doingextra, he's not going all over
the place. He's not doing ayear, he's giving you eight
episodes. But that's the pointis, decide what it is that
you're trying to do. And thenhow you are going to get there.
So it can be okay, well, ifwe're just going to do four
episodes, what are those fourepisodes going to accomplish?

(27:06):
What do we want people to thinkabout us when they're done with
these four, so people know areonly got to get through these
four, and then I'll know how tofix my car after you know, it's
very, you guys creative, it's anopportunity to be creative about
the goal. So yeah, with agenciestoo. And the creatives, you

(27:30):
know, can go all over the place,it's sometimes best to define
what the goal is going to be.
But you can create a limitedpodcast and say, This is episode
six, eight, taking taking youfrom point A to point Z, just
defining what that is. Becauseyeah, it can get all over the

(27:50):
place. But also, yes, it doestake a while, unless you're
going to spend an immense amountof money with your advertising.
Group growing pod, because it'sthe consistency, right? So yeah,
you you say on Tuesday, everyTuesday, we're gonna have a new
drop about, well, if they startgoing on Tuesdays, and it's not

(28:12):
there, they're gonna stopcoming. So the minute you're
inconsistent, the people thatwork following you or not, it
really just depends on how youdecide to market it. Some people
don't start a pod until theyhave all the first 20 episodes
done, then they have those andthey can start dropping them.
But yeah, they're still recordedwith the intention of by the

(28:34):
time we're done with this, thisis what's going to, we will have
accomplished this is the storywe're going to tell this is, you
know, the amount of newsubscribers, the amount of new
customers that we want to havecome in, but with all that in
mind, that goes into the piethat goes into the conversation,

(28:55):
the marketing and theadvertising. So it's just
a tool. It's a tool. Did thathelp? One more and then we got
to go to the next session.
I'm sure that it depends on youknow, the content and how many

(29:16):
episodes that you end up making.
What would you say the sweetspot is for time of a podcast?
3030 minutes should be 30minutes is Matt 25 minutes is
the best timing. Um, you know,some go a little over a little
less depending on subjectmatter, but 25 minutes is the
amount of time that gets themost viewership. Complete

(29:40):
viewership. Right.
Thank you. Thank you, Tanya.
So much