September 10, 2025 • 23 mins
Ever feel like SEO is a mysterious black box? You're not alone. In this episode, we're pulling back the curtain on search engine optimization with Jason Berkowitz, founder and CEO of Break the Web.
Jason shares his refreshing approach to SEO that puts users first and demystifies the process for in-house marketing teams. He explains why old-school tactics like keyword stuffing are out, and how focusing on solving real customer problems leads to better rankings.
Key Insights on Modern SEO
- Why light roast coffee packs more caffeine than dark (who knew?)
- The evolving role of link building in 2024 and beyond
- How to balance engaging content with search optimization
- Smart ways to leverage AI for SEO without losing the human touch
Jason also weighs in on the future of search, including voice and AI-powered tools. He offers a bold prediction on where SEO is headed and how content creators can stay relevant.
Actionable Takeaways:
- Focus on middle and bottom-funnel content to drive conversions
- Let data guide your SEO strategy, not shiny object syndrome
- Integrate SEO with other marketing initiatives for maximum impact
- Adapt your content for emerging tech like voice search
Whether you're an SEO newbie or a seasoned pro, you'll come away with fresh perspectives to level up your organic search game. So grab your favorite brew (light roast, anyone?) and get ready for some caffeinated SEO wisdom!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, a little hint for you if you like more caffeine in your coffee.
Light to medium blends or roasts have more caffeine.
The dark roasts have less caffeine. So if you want more caffeine,
don't go for the dark roast. Old school SEO is about like throwing the keyword
in a million times and the content just stinks. Everyone, I
think nowadays is aware of when they see a page that's just optimized
(00:23):
for the sake of SEO. Yeah, I mean, link building
has evolved. The way I was doing it 15 years ago was push a
button and bam. Thousands of links are going to your website.
That of course has changed. But the concept and trust, it's
like, do you have a plumber that you can recommend?
I'm going to trust the plumber because I trust you. AI, I think its
(00:46):
best purpose and use case right now is just helping with things that
used to take a lot of time and just reducing that time.
If there is consistent data entry or push button
clicks or dragging things that can all be automated. I think people
are just tired of seeing AI everything. There's a meme out there.
It's the Jordan Belfort Wolf of Wall street selling me this
(01:08):
pen and their sponsors. It's AI powered
elder Millennial, you know, who's used to
doing things a very certain way, especially when it comes to search. But I'm
also changing the way I'm using Gemini for Q and A. Using
on my computer chatgpt to answer random questions that I
might have. I'm pointing my phone at it and having a conversation with
(01:30):
Gemini about things I can do.
Mmm, that's good. And welcome to a new
episode of Digital Coffee Marketing Brew. And
(01:52):
I'm your host, Brett Deister. If you please subscribe to this podcast
and all your favorite podcasting apps, leave a five star review. It really does help
with the rankings and let me know how I am am doing.
But this week we're talking about SEO
and content. Like the two main things about marketing
that either is great for marketers or a terrible headache for
(02:14):
marketers. And sometimes it goes in between.
Anyways, I have Jason with me. He's a founder and CEO director of Break
the Web, the CEO and content marketing agency.
Helping in house marketing teams of DTC
and BTC brands make SEO more
measurable. Measurable, accessible and less
(02:36):
annoying. So welcome to the show, Jason. Thanks Brett. It's a pleasure to
be here. And the first question ask all my guests is are you a coffee
or tea drinker? But like with Limits.
So coffee in the morning, but after it gets a certain point, I
stay a little too wired. I have a hard time sleeping. So about one
cup of coffee in the morning is what usually sets me
(02:59):
going. Got you. Do you have like any like specific blends you do or it's
just whatever you can get your hands on? Whatever I can get my hands on.
My wife, I know likes strong, dark blends. I don't
care. I. I don't really notice difference. I tend to drink it in the
mornings black, so it's
maybe mixing it up adds different flavor, so to speak of the day.
(03:21):
But yeah, I'm. You have a cup of coffee? Sure, I'll
drink it. Well, a little hint for you if you like more caffeine
in your coffee. Light to medium blends or
roasts have more caffeine. The dark roasts have less
caffeine. So if you want more caffeine, don't go for the dark roast.
I'm gonna tell her that maybe you'll get one less cup per day on her
(03:43):
side. So I gave a brief summary of your expertise. Can you hear those a
little bit more about what you do? Yeah, pretty much. Like you said, I'm the
SEO director of Break the Web. We help in house marketing
teams of direct to consumer or business community type
brands really just take the annoyances and frustrations of
SEO, which is ambiguous, nuanced, jargon
(04:05):
heavy, and just break it down into simple forms and make it
work. Because marketers have to report on
organic to their leadership team and sometimes when they don't really
know what's going on, or the SEO agency they're working with
just is giving them jargon heavy language, it's just hard to translate
internally. So that's where we come in. SEO is often seen
(04:27):
as a mysterious black box by many. Can you demystify your approach
to crafting strategies that consistently rank content at the
top? Yeah, I think it's more so of a mindset shift as
to why we're really good at SEO. Because we're not
intentionally. I mean, rankings is absolutely a powerful
measurement of success, but instead we're trying to solve problems and
(04:49):
answer questions that our clients, their customers are asking.
And when we're able to align content that
accurately matches the intent on what
somebody might be searching for, or maybe more transactional
type pages like a product page. Aligning that with
the intent allows us to be
(05:11):
natural in the way we do things. Old school SEO is about like
throwing the keyword in a million times and the content just stinks.
Like everyone I think nowadays is aware of when they see a page that's just
optimized for the sake of SEO. It's words for the sake of
words that has no, no value. We aim to kind of
blend it all. User experience, conversion, rate optimization and really
(05:33):
good SEO so that our clients can get really awesome
success. But also especially nowadays, see that success in
multiple different places in AI platforms
and other communities that people might be sharing. So
when you're focused on the user first versus SEO first, it's
a really big paradigm shift. And what's one tactic you swear by that's
(05:55):
that the others might overlook? I think the
aspects of link building. People tend to say that
link building, which is the concept of a link from around the
web from another relevant website pointing back to yours is no
longer important or no longer necessary and just content is king.
But we see it as still a 50, 50 split with digital PR
(06:18):
outreach to journalists, connecting with publications.
That's off page SEO, that's trust being built
on pages relevance of your website. But you and your
competitors can all be relevant. How can search engines
differentiate trust factors? And that's where links still very much
do play a part in an overall SEO strategy. And we have clients, for
(06:40):
example, that have taken away links from the service
because maybe links are hard to justify because you see
something, but it's the multitude of aspects leading into good
SEO. But when links are taken away and things aren't
performing well and we bring links back in and you're able to be
competitive, that's when first party data
(07:02):
shows the benefits. So
basically still old school tactics, all of them. But some of them,
like link building is still key to doing really good
SEO. Yeah, I mean link building has
evolved. I mean the way I was doing it 15 years ago was push a
button and bam, thousands of links are going to your website.
(07:24):
That of course has changed. But the concept and trust, it's like,
hey Brett, do you have a plumber that you can recommend? I'm
going to trust the plumber because I trust you. And they came from your
recommendation. That's how search engines might see links. They're going to trust
our client because they trust the website that's
linking to our client. Got you. And so
(07:47):
with Google's algorithm always changing, it seems like
changes daily. Sometimes it's, sometimes it's a quarter. But how do
you stay ahead of the curve? And what's one update in recent years that
completely reshaped your playbook? We just
have an understanding of where Google wants to be and I think that's always been
extremely helpful, especially nowadays where they have to
(08:09):
compete with all the other platforms or potential
traffic stealers, which Google still owns. There's data to prove that
Google still owns the largest percentage of market share in
search by. By a long sh. Just
staying, you know, staying course on the data and following
what's taking place. What changes Google is making in their
(08:31):
tech innovations can allow you to adapt. But also
our philosophies on our playbook hasn't necessarily changed. I mean, our clients at
this moment are still seeing some really great success. Even though we're in the middle
of an evolution of SEO right now, the impact that
AI overviews, AI mode, other platforms may have in
SEO, there's still a lot of really great success to be seen. And I
(08:53):
think that's where just really good SEO helps cover all the bases
is you're helping a brand gain more visibility.
Content is king, but distribution is queen. So how do you
balance creating high quality content with ensuring it reaches the
right audience? User
questions like collaborating directly with our clients.
(09:15):
If they are a product or an e comm business,
there should be some post checkout surveys. How did you hear about us?
What did you type in? Getting an idea of what
people are asking or what pain points are being solved
allows us to really target content that is very specific.
Now there might be a lower search volume if you're looking at it from a
(09:38):
keyword basis, but that doesn't really matter because there's a common problem
taking place among the customer set for our clients. If we're able
to solve and answer that accurately in a way that's meaningful,
compelling and going to help with conversions,
then it's, it's a shoe. And really just understanding our client's brand and their
customers has been really fruitful. A lot of marketers struggle
(10:00):
with creating content that's both engaging and optimized for,
for search. I mean we either, a lot of times we either do one or
the other. And usually you want to do more engaging than optimized
research, but still you want to do both. So how do you find the right
balance without. Without really sounding like a
robot? Yeah, I think it's first off for our clients if
(10:22):
we're helping them with content creation is understanding their brand, their
style, their tonality, and adapting the content to
maybe include SEO, which SEO
optimization is kind of broad, you know, is a topical
relevance. So if we're able to be topically relevant and
whether it's us briefing the clients on how to write an article,
(10:44):
you can Take the style or
the way the content goes, the angle in any direction
as long as it's still topically relevant and that can still hit the SEO
buttons as long as the intent is being matched. While also speaking
from a brand's voice and style and tonality.
Versus sounded like you just got an output from an AI
(11:07):
content creator in a way. So really just getting our
clients voice dialed in to the writing has been. The
differentiator AI since it is the shiny new toy in
marketing. Well, it's a shiny new toy in almost just about every industry right now.
Everybody's trying to figure out how to use this effectively.
How are, how are you using AI tools to supercharge your
(11:29):
SEO and content efforts? And where do you draw the line
between automation and human creativity? AI, I think
its best purpose and use case right now is just helping with things
that used to take a lot of time and just reducing that time
if there is consistent data entry or push button clicks
or dragging things that can all be automated. What's interesting
(11:52):
also is kind of research aspects. You can let AI just
aggregate tons and tons of data in one simple format which can
be used to build new workflows, new
content, new things. So our AI usage is
predominantly around automation related to
workflows. SEO still I think at this point and very
(12:15):
much believe needs some human oversight and
creative thinking. Sometimes clients and brands might have
some roadblocks and we have to creatively navigate around those roadblocks
to see success. And, and I don't believe AI is at a place right now
where it can replace humans. But in order to get there and
succeed, there are ways you can utilize AI or automations
(12:37):
to make just the processes so much faster, easier.
Some parts of SEO are just annoying and boring. So let the
robots take care of it. We can focus on other things and then put
everything together and make data and make action
out of the data. And how do you think AI will transform the role of
SEO specialists and content creators in the next five years? I think
(13:00):
content creators more than SEO specialists. It's, it's
rough out there for content creators right now. I think AI has
already transformed it, especially for freelance writers and maybe in
house writers too who are thinking about their job security.
I think transitioning to being a content strategist or
at least a content editor is
(13:23):
a really good move in the short term. AI is at this moment
by itself cannot produce a really awesome article that's ready to
publish. But content editors are winning right now
for brands that want to keep costs low with content Production and
use AI content editors can come in,
fill in the missing pieces, adapt even further to a brand style
(13:46):
and voice. That's probably a really good move. And then
strategy, I mean, it all starts with the strategy. What we're going to
target, the buyer, Persona, interviews, all
these different things that you can't you, I mean, you
probably could use AI for. But I mean, asking a
client's customer to speak to an AI bot is just weird and takes away from
(14:07):
that personal touch. So I think the strategist role is really awesome
and very similar to be said for SEO. You know,
there's going to be, I mean, right now there's tools that can AI
recommend things to do for SEO, like titles, descriptions, add in these
questions, but at what cost? Does the recommendations
just suck? Do they take away messaging? Are you adding
(14:29):
in FAQs that don't help anybody, but AI
suggested that you add them in. That's that weird
place. And again, it might just make things easier in the
future, at this moment or even in the
next five years, both sides, creativity, creatively.
For content and SEO, the best brands will have
(14:52):
some human oversight. So are we just all going to be prompt engineers or
editors soon? Just because AI is just really going to
supposedly take over. But I think there might be a little bit of a backlash
and people may still want that human element. I think there's definitely an
AI burnout right now. I think people are just tired of seeing AI everything.
There's a meme out there. It's the Jordan
(15:15):
Belfort Wolf of Wall street, sell me this pen. And the response is, it's
AI powered. It's hilarious because I think there's
definitely, even in the tech world, most consumers aren't even aware of what's taking
place in the world of AI and OpenAI and
Gemini. But people who are in the broad
category of tech are still also kind of burnt out. Like AI is being thrown
(15:36):
in our face at every single thing, like hopping on here.
I had a tool ask me if I wanted to record this with AI, and
no, I don't. So
we may very well become prompt
engineers, so to speak. I think a super awesome goal would be, you
don't need to be a prompt engineer because natural language processing is just so advanced
(15:58):
that the AI can just pick up your intent and
how to navigate a prompt. Does it need to be a skill? I
think that's like really wide adoption. But
also there's a lot of cool things with AI too. I mean, I have on
my phone, I use Gemini Live. It's actually pretty incredible what I can do with
it. Yeah, it does some amazing things,
(16:20):
but we all still want a little human element
involved with it. Injected there, here and there every once in a
while. I mean they still, for the video side, they still don't get
hands right for whatever reason. I think it's pretty funny. But they don't get hands
right either. There's like six hands or six fingers or there's like
the hands are like way too big for that body type type of a
(16:42):
thing. So there are some weird quirks that it still does.
Yeah. And I think it'll be also just
dependent on what the younger generations lean to. I
don't think anyone really has any. There's a lot of assumptions and predictions out
there on, on what's going to happen with AI, but nobody really knows. It's about
what the younger generations. Plus I'm a, I'm a self proclaimed elder
(17:04):
millennial, you know, who's used to doing
things a very certain way, especially when it comes to search. But I'm also
changing the way I make searches. I'm using Gemini for Q and A. I'm using
on my computer chat GPT to answer random questions that I
might have. So there is an evolution taking place. And
I mean good marketing is about being where your
(17:27):
Persona and your customer is making these searches.
And so what's one SEO trend on the horizon that you think
most marketers are sleeping on? How and how can they start to
prepare to use it now? Thinking of SEO
in its own little silo. SEO historically is
like the ugly stepchild, so to speak, and put in its own little box
(17:49):
away from all other marketing activities. They need to be well
rounded because SEO in fact can support all the other marketing
initiatives taking place, especially when it comes to some of the research
that could help with social email and vice
versa. Other marketing initiatives could help with
SEO. So I think still to this day there's
(18:11):
that stigma that SEO is its own little line item put away in its own
little box, but it needs to be integrated with other marketing
initiatives. We like to collaborate with other marketing departments also, whether
it's internal third party, because we are all serving
the bigger picture, a very specific campaign goal or marketing
goal. How can we collaborate? How can we benefit each other
(18:34):
in this way? And I think SEO may no
longer just be SEO might fall into a larger
category of just good digital marketing in the future. And
with voice search, which is kind of evolving into AI search at
the same time, how is the CEO landscape
evolving? Does it feel like More like Star Trek where we just kind of like
(18:56):
use the computer and it talks back to us and it gives us the information.
I mean even then that was still pretty limited in
even the TV series, but it was still futuristic when it came out.
So what's your bold prediction for search is headed and how should
content creators adapt to stay relevant? I think
being aware of what people might be speaking about
(19:19):
because I like I mentioned before, I use Gemini Live
from my phone so I can turn my camera on, point to something
like I have an issue with my lawn. Like there's like weird patchiness
taking place in my lawn. The other day, I'm pointing my phone at
it and having conversation with Gemini about things I can do. Now
the interesting part is I wasn't, I'm not in
(19:41):
purchase mode. I'm not ready to spend money on a brand. I'm just looking for
answers at this moment. So I think good marketers and good content creators
can focus more middle bottom of the funnel, keeping the
focus more to transactional intent versus
answering high level questions, which even if you are ranked number one
on Google, may not have led to a conversion anyways.
(20:04):
So if you could focus more on the conversion activities versus the
Q& A high level answers, that's a
route. And Gemini Live is already that conversational. And
ChatGPT has it too. Where I think the coolest thing is I can point my
camera on my phone at something and just talk to it. Like I'm like, hey,
what's happening over there? Oh, your dog is really seems to be very happy
(20:27):
playing with her ball. That's weird. What type of dog do you think this
is? Oh, that looks like a cocker spaniel, you know. And
so for aspiring SEO wizards listening, what's one
actual tip or tool you recommend they start using today to boost
their skills or results? I would say a tip over tool because it's like
a tool overload right now. But one tip is try
(20:49):
to avoid the noise and the
shiny objects and let data drive decisions.
SEO is very data driven. So let the data
speak for itself and how you adapt your SEO strategy, how you
change things in your playbook
versus oh, I read this LinkedIn post that said SEO is
(21:12):
now switched to this and I got to do that. Let the data speak
for itself. Take a breath. And one of your unique value
propositions as an SEO could be that you have your own
framework of success that works versus someone else's
framework of success. Yeah, I mean how many times have we heard that email
marketing is dead? Everything is Dead right. SEO, email
(21:34):
marketing, social. Now, social media platforms are going to go away
now in favor of the metaverse.
Who knows? They're still trying to do the metaverse that people actually want to
go to. I think that circles back to what you said before about
people still. I mean, we are humans. We're going to need
human interaction. We can't just put on a goggle and just communicate
(21:57):
virtually. It's like a black mirror. If you ever watch any black mirror episodes.
I haven't, but I mean, I understand it. I mean, I could even go even
further. Like Demolition man kind of had like that dystopian future too,
a little bit. And then that's, you know, we as humans
evolved the way we have been because of
real time, real life community, you know, and you take that away, you
(22:19):
can have community, but it's virtual, you know, like, I'm meeting you,
Brett, for the first time. The likelihood of us meeting a
person is very low. We can still absolutely maintain a friendship, but there's going to
be a point where if the friendship needs to grow, there's going to be. There's
going to need to be a real life exchange. And people listening to this episode,
they're wondering, where can people find you online? You can find us at
(22:41):
breaktheweb Agency, you can go to Google, type in Break the Web.
And I'm on LinkedIn. Jason Berkowitz. All right, any final
thoughts for the listeners trucking along? Yeah.
All right, well, thank you, Jason, for joining Digital Coffee
Marketing Brew and sharing your knowledge on SEO and content. Thank you,
Brad. I appreciate it and thank you for listening as always. Please subscribe to this
(23:03):
podcast and all your favorite podcasting apps. Leave. A five star review really does help
the rankings. Let me know how I am doing and join me
next week as I talk to another great thought leader in the PR and
marketing industry. All right, guys, stay safe. Get to understanding your
SEO and your content strategy and maybe learning a little bit more about
AI if you need to. And see you next week later.
Well, a little hint for you if you like more caffeine in your coffee.
Light to medium blends or roasts have more caffeine.
The dark roasts have less caffeine. So if you want more caffeine,
don't go for the dark roast. Old school SEO is about like throwing the keyword
in a million times and the content just stinks. Everyone, I
think nowadays is aware of when they see a page that's just optimized
(00:23):
for the sake of SEO. Yeah, I mean, link building
has evolved. The way I was doing it 15 years ago was push a
button and bam. Thousands of links are going to your website.
That of course has changed. But the concept and trust, it's
like, do you have a plumber that you can recommend?
I'm going to trust the plumber because I trust you. AI, I think its
(00:46):
best purpose and use case right now is just helping with things that
used to take a lot of time and just reducing that time.
If there is consistent data entry or push button
clicks or dragging things that can all be automated. I think people
are just tired of seeing AI everything. There's a meme out there.
It's the Jordan Belfort Wolf of Wall street selling me this
(01:08):
pen and their sponsors. It's AI powered
elder Millennial, you know, who's used to
doing things a very certain way, especially when it comes to search. But I'm
also changing the way I'm using Gemini for Q and A. Using
on my computer chatgpt to answer random questions that I
might have. I'm pointing my phone at it and having a conversation with
(01:30):
Gemini about things I can do.
Mmm, that's good. And welcome to a new
episode of Digital Coffee Marketing Brew. And
(01:52):
I'm your host, Brett Deister. If you please subscribe to this podcast
and all your favorite podcasting apps, leave a five star review. It really does help
with the rankings and let me know how I am am doing.
But this week we're talking about SEO
and content. Like the two main things about marketing
that either is great for marketers or a terrible headache for
(02:14):
marketers. And sometimes it goes in between.
Anyways, I have Jason with me. He's a founder and CEO director of Break
the Web, the CEO and content marketing agency.
Helping in house marketing teams of DTC
and BTC brands make SEO more
measurable. Measurable, accessible and less
(02:36):
annoying. So welcome to the show, Jason. Thanks Brett. It's a pleasure to
be here. And the first question ask all my guests is are you a coffee
or tea drinker? But like with Limits.
So coffee in the morning, but after it gets a certain point, I
stay a little too wired. I have a hard time sleeping. So about one
cup of coffee in the morning is what usually sets me
(02:59):
going. Got you. Do you have like any like specific blends you do or it's
just whatever you can get your hands on? Whatever I can get my hands on.
My wife, I know likes strong, dark blends. I don't
care. I. I don't really notice difference. I tend to drink it in the
mornings black, so it's
maybe mixing it up adds different flavor, so to speak of the day.
(03:21):
But yeah, I'm. You have a cup of coffee? Sure, I'll
drink it. Well, a little hint for you if you like more caffeine
in your coffee. Light to medium blends or
roasts have more caffeine. The dark roasts have less
caffeine. So if you want more caffeine, don't go for the dark roast.
I'm gonna tell her that maybe you'll get one less cup per day on her
(03:43):
side. So I gave a brief summary of your expertise. Can you hear those a
little bit more about what you do? Yeah, pretty much. Like you said, I'm the
SEO director of Break the Web. We help in house marketing
teams of direct to consumer or business community type
brands really just take the annoyances and frustrations of
SEO, which is ambiguous, nuanced, jargon
(04:05):
heavy, and just break it down into simple forms and make it
work. Because marketers have to report on
organic to their leadership team and sometimes when they don't really
know what's going on, or the SEO agency they're working with
just is giving them jargon heavy language, it's just hard to translate
internally. So that's where we come in. SEO is often seen
(04:27):
as a mysterious black box by many. Can you demystify your approach
to crafting strategies that consistently rank content at the
top? Yeah, I think it's more so of a mindset shift as
to why we're really good at SEO. Because we're not
intentionally. I mean, rankings is absolutely a powerful
measurement of success, but instead we're trying to solve problems and
(04:49):
answer questions that our clients, their customers are asking.
And when we're able to align content that
accurately matches the intent on what
somebody might be searching for, or maybe more transactional
type pages like a product page. Aligning that with
the intent allows us to be
(05:11):
natural in the way we do things. Old school SEO is about like
throwing the keyword in a million times and the content just stinks.
Like everyone I think nowadays is aware of when they see a page that's just
optimized for the sake of SEO. It's words for the sake of
words that has no, no value. We aim to kind of
blend it all. User experience, conversion, rate optimization and really
(05:33):
good SEO so that our clients can get really awesome
success. But also especially nowadays, see that success in
multiple different places in AI platforms
and other communities that people might be sharing. So
when you're focused on the user first versus SEO first, it's
a really big paradigm shift. And what's one tactic you swear by that's
(05:55):
that the others might overlook? I think the
aspects of link building. People tend to say that
link building, which is the concept of a link from around the
web from another relevant website pointing back to yours is no
longer important or no longer necessary and just content is king.
But we see it as still a 50, 50 split with digital PR
(06:18):
outreach to journalists, connecting with publications.
That's off page SEO, that's trust being built
on pages relevance of your website. But you and your
competitors can all be relevant. How can search engines
differentiate trust factors? And that's where links still very much
do play a part in an overall SEO strategy. And we have clients, for
(06:40):
example, that have taken away links from the service
because maybe links are hard to justify because you see
something, but it's the multitude of aspects leading into good
SEO. But when links are taken away and things aren't
performing well and we bring links back in and you're able to be
competitive, that's when first party data
(07:02):
shows the benefits. So
basically still old school tactics, all of them. But some of them,
like link building is still key to doing really good
SEO. Yeah, I mean link building has
evolved. I mean the way I was doing it 15 years ago was push a
button and bam, thousands of links are going to your website.
(07:24):
That of course has changed. But the concept and trust, it's like,
hey Brett, do you have a plumber that you can recommend? I'm
going to trust the plumber because I trust you. And they came from your
recommendation. That's how search engines might see links. They're going to trust
our client because they trust the website that's
linking to our client. Got you. And so
(07:47):
with Google's algorithm always changing, it seems like
changes daily. Sometimes it's, sometimes it's a quarter. But how do
you stay ahead of the curve? And what's one update in recent years that
completely reshaped your playbook? We just
have an understanding of where Google wants to be and I think that's always been
extremely helpful, especially nowadays where they have to
(08:09):
compete with all the other platforms or potential
traffic stealers, which Google still owns. There's data to prove that
Google still owns the largest percentage of market share in
search by. By a long sh. Just
staying, you know, staying course on the data and following
what's taking place. What changes Google is making in their
(08:31):
tech innovations can allow you to adapt. But also
our philosophies on our playbook hasn't necessarily changed. I mean, our clients at
this moment are still seeing some really great success. Even though we're in the middle
of an evolution of SEO right now, the impact that
AI overviews, AI mode, other platforms may have in
SEO, there's still a lot of really great success to be seen. And I
(08:53):
think that's where just really good SEO helps cover all the bases
is you're helping a brand gain more visibility.
Content is king, but distribution is queen. So how do you
balance creating high quality content with ensuring it reaches the
right audience? User
questions like collaborating directly with our clients.
(09:15):
If they are a product or an e comm business,
there should be some post checkout surveys. How did you hear about us?
What did you type in? Getting an idea of what
people are asking or what pain points are being solved
allows us to really target content that is very specific.
Now there might be a lower search volume if you're looking at it from a
(09:38):
keyword basis, but that doesn't really matter because there's a common problem
taking place among the customer set for our clients. If we're able
to solve and answer that accurately in a way that's meaningful,
compelling and going to help with conversions,
then it's, it's a shoe. And really just understanding our client's brand and their
customers has been really fruitful. A lot of marketers struggle
(10:00):
with creating content that's both engaging and optimized for,
for search. I mean we either, a lot of times we either do one or
the other. And usually you want to do more engaging than optimized
research, but still you want to do both. So how do you find the right
balance without. Without really sounding like a
robot? Yeah, I think it's first off for our clients if
(10:22):
we're helping them with content creation is understanding their brand, their
style, their tonality, and adapting the content to
maybe include SEO, which SEO
optimization is kind of broad, you know, is a topical
relevance. So if we're able to be topically relevant and
whether it's us briefing the clients on how to write an article,
(10:44):
you can Take the style or
the way the content goes, the angle in any direction
as long as it's still topically relevant and that can still hit the SEO
buttons as long as the intent is being matched. While also speaking
from a brand's voice and style and tonality.
Versus sounded like you just got an output from an AI
(11:07):
content creator in a way. So really just getting our
clients voice dialed in to the writing has been. The
differentiator AI since it is the shiny new toy in
marketing. Well, it's a shiny new toy in almost just about every industry right now.
Everybody's trying to figure out how to use this effectively.
How are, how are you using AI tools to supercharge your
(11:29):
SEO and content efforts? And where do you draw the line
between automation and human creativity? AI, I think
its best purpose and use case right now is just helping with things
that used to take a lot of time and just reducing that time
if there is consistent data entry or push button clicks
or dragging things that can all be automated. What's interesting
(11:52):
also is kind of research aspects. You can let AI just
aggregate tons and tons of data in one simple format which can
be used to build new workflows, new
content, new things. So our AI usage is
predominantly around automation related to
workflows. SEO still I think at this point and very
(12:15):
much believe needs some human oversight and
creative thinking. Sometimes clients and brands might have
some roadblocks and we have to creatively navigate around those roadblocks
to see success. And, and I don't believe AI is at a place right now
where it can replace humans. But in order to get there and
succeed, there are ways you can utilize AI or automations
(12:37):
to make just the processes so much faster, easier.
Some parts of SEO are just annoying and boring. So let the
robots take care of it. We can focus on other things and then put
everything together and make data and make action
out of the data. And how do you think AI will transform the role of
SEO specialists and content creators in the next five years? I think
(13:00):
content creators more than SEO specialists. It's, it's
rough out there for content creators right now. I think AI has
already transformed it, especially for freelance writers and maybe in
house writers too who are thinking about their job security.
I think transitioning to being a content strategist or
at least a content editor is
(13:23):
a really good move in the short term. AI is at this moment
by itself cannot produce a really awesome article that's ready to
publish. But content editors are winning right now
for brands that want to keep costs low with content Production and
use AI content editors can come in,
fill in the missing pieces, adapt even further to a brand style
(13:46):
and voice. That's probably a really good move. And then
strategy, I mean, it all starts with the strategy. What we're going to
target, the buyer, Persona, interviews, all
these different things that you can't you, I mean, you
probably could use AI for. But I mean, asking a
client's customer to speak to an AI bot is just weird and takes away from
(14:07):
that personal touch. So I think the strategist role is really awesome
and very similar to be said for SEO. You know,
there's going to be, I mean, right now there's tools that can AI
recommend things to do for SEO, like titles, descriptions, add in these
questions, but at what cost? Does the recommendations
just suck? Do they take away messaging? Are you adding
(14:29):
in FAQs that don't help anybody, but AI
suggested that you add them in. That's that weird
place. And again, it might just make things easier in the
future, at this moment or even in the
next five years, both sides, creativity, creatively.
For content and SEO, the best brands will have
(14:52):
some human oversight. So are we just all going to be prompt engineers or
editors soon? Just because AI is just really going to
supposedly take over. But I think there might be a little bit of a backlash
and people may still want that human element. I think there's definitely an
AI burnout right now. I think people are just tired of seeing AI everything.
There's a meme out there. It's the Jordan
(15:15):
Belfort Wolf of Wall street, sell me this pen. And the response is, it's
AI powered. It's hilarious because I think there's
definitely, even in the tech world, most consumers aren't even aware of what's taking
place in the world of AI and OpenAI and
Gemini. But people who are in the broad
category of tech are still also kind of burnt out. Like AI is being thrown
(15:36):
in our face at every single thing, like hopping on here.
I had a tool ask me if I wanted to record this with AI, and
no, I don't. So
we may very well become prompt
engineers, so to speak. I think a super awesome goal would be, you
don't need to be a prompt engineer because natural language processing is just so advanced
(15:58):
that the AI can just pick up your intent and
how to navigate a prompt. Does it need to be a skill? I
think that's like really wide adoption. But
also there's a lot of cool things with AI too. I mean, I have on
my phone, I use Gemini Live. It's actually pretty incredible what I can do with
it. Yeah, it does some amazing things,
(16:20):
but we all still want a little human element
involved with it. Injected there, here and there every once in a
while. I mean they still, for the video side, they still don't get
hands right for whatever reason. I think it's pretty funny. But they don't get hands
right either. There's like six hands or six fingers or there's like
the hands are like way too big for that body type type of a
(16:42):
thing. So there are some weird quirks that it still does.
Yeah. And I think it'll be also just
dependent on what the younger generations lean to. I
don't think anyone really has any. There's a lot of assumptions and predictions out
there on, on what's going to happen with AI, but nobody really knows. It's about
what the younger generations. Plus I'm a, I'm a self proclaimed elder
(17:04):
millennial, you know, who's used to doing
things a very certain way, especially when it comes to search. But I'm also
changing the way I make searches. I'm using Gemini for Q and A. I'm using
on my computer chat GPT to answer random questions that I
might have. So there is an evolution taking place. And
I mean good marketing is about being where your
(17:27):
Persona and your customer is making these searches.
And so what's one SEO trend on the horizon that you think
most marketers are sleeping on? How and how can they start to
prepare to use it now? Thinking of SEO
in its own little silo. SEO historically is
like the ugly stepchild, so to speak, and put in its own little box
(17:49):
away from all other marketing activities. They need to be well
rounded because SEO in fact can support all the other marketing
initiatives taking place, especially when it comes to some of the research
that could help with social email and vice
versa. Other marketing initiatives could help with
SEO. So I think still to this day there's
(18:11):
that stigma that SEO is its own little line item put away in its own
little box, but it needs to be integrated with other marketing
initiatives. We like to collaborate with other marketing departments also, whether
it's internal third party, because we are all serving
the bigger picture, a very specific campaign goal or marketing
goal. How can we collaborate? How can we benefit each other
(18:34):
in this way? And I think SEO may no
longer just be SEO might fall into a larger
category of just good digital marketing in the future. And
with voice search, which is kind of evolving into AI search at
the same time, how is the CEO landscape
evolving? Does it feel like More like Star Trek where we just kind of like
(18:56):
use the computer and it talks back to us and it gives us the information.
I mean even then that was still pretty limited in
even the TV series, but it was still futuristic when it came out.
So what's your bold prediction for search is headed and how should
content creators adapt to stay relevant? I think
being aware of what people might be speaking about
(19:19):
because I like I mentioned before, I use Gemini Live
from my phone so I can turn my camera on, point to something
like I have an issue with my lawn. Like there's like weird patchiness
taking place in my lawn. The other day, I'm pointing my phone at
it and having conversation with Gemini about things I can do. Now
the interesting part is I wasn't, I'm not in
(19:41):
purchase mode. I'm not ready to spend money on a brand. I'm just looking for
answers at this moment. So I think good marketers and good content creators
can focus more middle bottom of the funnel, keeping the
focus more to transactional intent versus
answering high level questions, which even if you are ranked number one
on Google, may not have led to a conversion anyways.
(20:04):
So if you could focus more on the conversion activities versus the
Q& A high level answers, that's a
route. And Gemini Live is already that conversational. And
ChatGPT has it too. Where I think the coolest thing is I can point my
camera on my phone at something and just talk to it. Like I'm like, hey,
what's happening over there? Oh, your dog is really seems to be very happy
(20:27):
playing with her ball. That's weird. What type of dog do you think this
is? Oh, that looks like a cocker spaniel, you know. And
so for aspiring SEO wizards listening, what's one
actual tip or tool you recommend they start using today to boost
their skills or results? I would say a tip over tool because it's like
a tool overload right now. But one tip is try
(20:49):
to avoid the noise and the
shiny objects and let data drive decisions.
SEO is very data driven. So let the data
speak for itself and how you adapt your SEO strategy, how you
change things in your playbook
versus oh, I read this LinkedIn post that said SEO is
(21:12):
now switched to this and I got to do that. Let the data speak
for itself. Take a breath. And one of your unique value
propositions as an SEO could be that you have your own
framework of success that works versus someone else's
framework of success. Yeah, I mean how many times have we heard that email
marketing is dead? Everything is Dead right. SEO, email
(21:34):
marketing, social. Now, social media platforms are going to go away
now in favor of the metaverse.
Who knows? They're still trying to do the metaverse that people actually want to
go to. I think that circles back to what you said before about
people still. I mean, we are humans. We're going to need
human interaction. We can't just put on a goggle and just communicate
(21:57):
virtually. It's like a black mirror. If you ever watch any black mirror episodes.
I haven't, but I mean, I understand it. I mean, I could even go even
further. Like Demolition man kind of had like that dystopian future too,
a little bit. And then that's, you know, we as humans
evolved the way we have been because of
real time, real life community, you know, and you take that away, you
(22:19):
can have community, but it's virtual, you know, like, I'm meeting you,
Brett, for the first time. The likelihood of us meeting a
person is very low. We can still absolutely maintain a friendship, but there's going to
be a point where if the friendship needs to grow, there's going to be. There's
going to need to be a real life exchange. And people listening to this episode,
they're wondering, where can people find you online? You can find us at
(22:41):
breaktheweb Agency, you can go to Google, type in Break the Web.
And I'm on LinkedIn. Jason Berkowitz. All right, any final
thoughts for the listeners trucking along? Yeah.
All right, well, thank you, Jason, for joining Digital Coffee
Marketing Brew and sharing your knowledge on SEO and content. Thank you,
Brad. I appreciate it and thank you for listening as always. Please subscribe to this
(23:03):
podcast and all your favorite podcasting apps. Leave. A five star review really does help
the rankings. Let me know how I am doing and join me
next week as I talk to another great thought leader in the PR and
marketing industry. All right, guys, stay safe. Get to understanding your
SEO and your content strategy and maybe learning a little bit more about
AI if you need to. And see you next week later.
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