March 5, 2025 • 23 mins
Welcome to another episode of Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew, where we blend insightful conversations with industry experts to perk up your marketing strategy. In today's episode, your host Brett Deister is joined by Manish Dudharejia, a seasoned entrepreneur and the founder of e2m Solutions, a leading digital agency specializing in white label outsourcing services. Manish discusses the importance of taking real breaks to combat burnout and maintain creativity, sharing insights on the effective lion framework of rest, sprint, and repeat. He also delves into the significance of understanding personal productivity patterns and making time for reflection amidst the hustle. Whether you're an entrepreneur, founder, or creative professional, tune in to discover practical tips to recharge and enhance your work-life balance. Grab your favorite brew and let's get started!
✅ Ready to unleash your potential with the right balance of hustle and rest?
✅ Join us on this week's episode of Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew! Host Brett Deister dives deep with guest Manish Dudharejia on how taking strategic breaks can boost creativity and productivity.
✅ Discover how Manish went from starting with just $1,200 to building a team of over 300 while mastering the art of pacing.
✅ Tune in to learn how the "Lion Method" can be your game-changer for maintaining momentum without the burnout. Listen now and transform your approach to work!
3 Fun Facts
- Manish Dudharejia prefers tea over coffee but enjoys both due to his Indian heritage and travels in the US.
- The 'masala chai' Manish mentions is a blend of black tea, milk, and Indian herbs like cardamom and ginger.
- Manish uses a "lion framework," which includes rest, repeat, and sprint, to maintain productivity and creativity in his work.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Manish Dudharejia (00:00):
Which is very common.
It's if you see the pattern of moresuccessful people, success is all
about doing boring things consistentlyover the longer period of time.
And entrepreneurshipis all about hustling.
Doing business is all about hustling.
But at the same time, findsome time for yourself.
Reflect.
Brett (00:32):
Mm, that's good.
And welcome to a new episode ofDigital Coffee Marketing Brew, and I'm
your host, Brett Deister interview.
Please subscribe to this podcast andall your favorite podcasting apps.
Really does help with the rankingsand let me know how I am doing.
But this week we're gonna talking about.
(00:53):
A break not your little five, 10 minutebreaks that your company makes you take
no actual like rest and keeping yourselffrom getting a burnout or at least.
Getting away from the burnout.
Anyways, I have Monish with me,and he started this in 2012.
He was determined to createa positive company culture.
He founded E two M, leveraging hisSEO expertise to grow the business,
(01:17):
starting only with $1,200 in investment.
Years later, E two M is now a 200.
Two full-time employee digital agencyspecializing in providing white label
outsourcing services to digital agency.
But welcome to the show.
Thank you Grant.
Thank you for hanging me on the show.
You're welcome.
(01:37):
The first question I ask all my guestsis, are you a coffee or tea drinker?
Manish Dudharejia (01:41):
I am a tea drinker, but I love coffee as well.
Because I'm originally from India andI'm born and brought up over here.
You know the history, right?
Like British people ruled Indiaand that's the reason, like tea
is more popular or here in India.
But I lived in the US and I traveleda lot in the states as well.
So I.
(02:01):
I love coffee, but if I have to chooseone, I'll definitely choose the tea.
Lower.
Brett (02:07):
There's any specific types of tea do you like?
Do you like the white,the black, the ONGs?
Manish Dudharejia (02:13):
It's mainly black tea which is mainly root
here, like specifically in northeastpart of India, that's where
we have the biggest thi farms.
I like green tea as well, soI love drinking green teas.
But on a day to day basis I love,I drink more of a black tea, but
it's more about, we there is a chaiword for tea which is now popular.
(02:38):
I see that, a lot of copies.
Coffee is in the US as well.
Chai is actually, it's not just thetea it's blended with milk and, all
the sort of like Indian herbs likeCardi and sometimes ginger as well.
So that's we call it like, masala, chai.
It's a mix of Indianherbs with a tea and milk.
(02:59):
That does it taste really good.
Brett (03:01):
Nice.
Now you have a briefsummary of your expertise.
Can you little, with the listenersa little bit more about what you do?
Manish Dudharejia (03:06):
I.
Sure.
I'm the founder and CEO of E two M.
Like you said, I started this back in2012 and as we speak we are a team of
over 200 people working with over 200plus agency clients all across the
world and mainly in the United States.
And we solve a specific problem.
Which is like helping agenciessolve bandwidth capacity problems
(03:28):
with our white level services.
That includes like building websites withWordPress, building e-commerce stores,
doing an SEO and content marketing.
And also, as we speak we justacquired another white level WordPress
deal company this month itself.
So with that equation, we are gonna add80 plus new team members to our team.
(03:49):
And we'll be adding 100 plus agencyclients to our client's portfolio.
Starting from July, we'll be a teamof over 300 people serving 300 plus
agency clients and all across the world.
And that will make us oneof the largest white level
workplace developer in the world.
So it's sounds exciting.
And yeah, there are a lotof exciting things going on.
Brett (04:09):
Nice.
We're specifically talking about takingbreaks, and so one of the things I saw
was that this like idea of a 90 day break,so let's say like an entrepreneur or
someone or a founder or someone's tryingto start a business, like how can they
incorporate that into a startup life?
Because startups are just like fast paced.
There are barely any breaks and you don'tsee many founders taking a lot of breaks.
Manish Dudharejia (04:32):
No I agree.
When I started 12 years back,I still remember I used to
work like 18, 20 hours a day.
I barely used to take likefour to six hours of sleep.
And taking a break when youare specifically starting
up is always challeng me.
It's always hard, I have some frameworks,which will be helpful for people who
(04:52):
are starting up, or people who feellike burned out and they don't know,
like how to take a break in betweenand, get recharged in order to make sure
you don't lose your creativity and thenyou still keep the momentum going on.
And I wish I would've learned this wayearlier when I started my business but I'm
glad I learned that one and a half yearback which is a really good framework I
(05:17):
learned, and it works out really well.
So I think we are, we live in a societywhere we believe that okay, the weekdays.
Like Monday to Friday, we have tohave, business hours nine to five
and then week weekends are moreto get energized and get relaxed.
(05:37):
But unfortunately that'snot, how it works.
And I would say it's more of a,fortunately because I don't think, the
creativity, intelligence understands.
The limitations of nine tofive and Monday to Friday.
So we, human beings are not designedto think during the specific time
(05:58):
and during the specific days, right?
So we often make that mistakes thatwe try to be creative during the
weekdays or during the businesshours, but that's not how it works.
I understand.
There are so many things whichare more time sensitive which
you have to do it anyway, whetheryou . You feel like doing it or not?
(06:19):
Which I get it.
But here is the thing that you just haveto think like that In order to be creative
you have to just break this barrier andyou have to just break this a wall of
understanding that, okay, these are thetimes only where you can be creative.
So I'll just put a reallygood example, ago I.
(06:39):
Ran into a situation where therewere days in the weekdays where I
wasn't feeling like doing anything.
I wasn't productive.
And at the end of day I felt I feltlike the regretting that I was seeing
that, my team was really productive.
I didn't accomplish anything.
And I felt kind of regret.
And that kind of made memore think about that.
(07:00):
Whether should I feel it regrettingor not or that's how I am.
And that led me, made me morecurious and started, I started
learning more and more about it.
I started reading more and more about it.
And that's how, I ended up into finding.
Some of the like, validations and I wouldsay more of a conclusion for myself, and
(07:22):
which I found a common pattern in highlysuccessful people as well that you should
really follow a lion framework, right?
And I learned about this lionframework one and a half year ago.
And there is a guy called Noel . Heis a very popular philosopher.
Highly reput and highly popularguy in startup tech investments.
(07:45):
And I always love the way hethinks and then I got to learn
about this line framework whilereading his wisdoms and stuffs.
Essentially it's rest,repeat, and sprint, right?
So ideally you should . There are alwaysdays there are times in a week where
you are fully energized and when youare highly motivated and that's where
(08:05):
you should be working on your all thepriority things and all the things
which you have on your to-do list.
And that's your sprint time.
So there are days where I take an exampleof myself, there are still days, where
I work like 12 to 15, 16 hours a day.
But those are the days when I'm super,super energized and I'm super supercharged
(08:28):
and I'm super, super motivated.
That's my sprint time, right?
And there are one or two days I worklike that and there are one or two days
where I don't feel like working whereI'm just doing some other stuff and.
That is my rest time, right?
Which is more about like you arenot being harsh on yourself and you
don't feel regret if you don't do itbecause you are mentally prepared.
(08:50):
This is my more of a resttime and that ans that kind of
brings to your thing as well.
Taking a break.
So let's take an example.
You know that there are times when you aresuper charged and you run a sprint, then
you, there is a time you take a break.
And then you repeat, right?
So ideally what you have to dois being, when you are starting a
(09:12):
business or you are at a positionin your business where you feel
like, okay, your schedule is crazy.
It's very hard for you to take a longbreaks, then this is the framework you
feel you should really try to follow.
And you can actually Google itin so called a lion framework.
Rest, repeat.
And sprint sprint, rest andrepeat, I would call it.
(09:34):
Put it like that.
So that is something you shouldreally focus on, which kind of helps
you to take in between your weeksrather than taking long breaks.
Brett (09:44):
Yeah, that's it's pretty interesting about the lion method.
'cause you're right, we don't always.
We're not always creative.
Nine to five.
Hell, sometimes I'm creative at3:00 AM in the morning or I have a
dream and it's oh, now I'm creative.
Or I go on a walk with myvery noisy dogs right now.
But let's say they can't take a 90 break.
Let's say they can onlydo like maybe once a week.
(10:06):
Is that beneficial for them as well?
Taking that one time off?
Maybe doing some chores, but not reallyfocusing on like heavy, like work.
Manish Dudharejia (10:17):
Yeah, I think, you e everyone have their own time
of identifying that, okay, theseare the days and these are the times
I'm super, super charged, right?
And these are the times Idon't feel like productive.
So if I take in my exampleI'm more productive at night.
So I'm not an early riser.
I, some of the things, sometimes Ihave to do some of the most important
(10:37):
items and then things to work on.
I usually stay up till latewhen I'm fully focused.
I don't have any disturbance.
I don't have any kind of notificationsand I can actually do a focused
work and I'm, I prefer to do, notdoing any meetings before 11 and I
prefer to do my important meetings.
(10:58):
Which is in the before lunch,in the morning and post lunch, I
don't feel super, super productive.
So that's where I'll keep my othermeetings where it's more about the
discussions and we don't have to do alot of brainstorming and in the evening
time I don't feel so much productive.
So take that time off.
To do something different, right?
So I think, you identified calledlike hyper productive type.
(11:22):
So when you are super hyper productivethose are the times, you try to finish
as much as you have on your plate and thetimes when you are not productive those
are the times, like you said, you takea walk or if you love to play any sort
of musical instruments, you play that.
Or you maybe hit the gym orwhatever it works for you.
(11:45):
Start feeling like lethargicyou start moving your body.
So that's the sign where you don'tforce yourself to work on something.
That's the time you have to move yourbody and just do it what you really like
instead of like just, where you sit andkeep working where you know that you
will not be getting the desired output.
Brett (12:07):
Got you.
And maybe people aren't like convincedright now, like how, what are the
benefits of actually taking a breakbesides rest, but what are the benefits?
Is it creating, is itmaking your mind sharper?
Is it being more creative that way?
Is the rest actually likethat beneficial for them?
Because I'm pretty sure likeeverybody's focused on their job.
They're like, I wannado the best job I can.
But sometimes it's just convincingpeople that breast actually does
(12:31):
make you better at your job.
Manish Dudharejia (12:34):
That's a good question.
See, it breaks the pattern, right?
Technically what happens, I'lltake an analogy of driving, right?
Think like that.
All this, fancy cars and all thelatest cars when you are driving
and when you are driving for anhour or two at certain kilometers,
it'll give you a kind of a warningthat, hey, you should take a break.
And.
(12:55):
Have some coffee or something.
It'll show it on yourspeedometer screen itself.
The reason is, there is a pattern, right?
You are driving for two to three hours.
The chances are most likely high, whereyou start feeling like busy, where you
might fi start like feeling like sleepy.
Now we have all these autonomous cars,so thanks to that, but think like that.
(13:16):
The same goes with work as well.
When you are working and thereis a . There is one technique
called, I think it's a Pomodoro.
Yeah it's called a Pomodoro.
It's a Pomodoro timer, right?
Pomodoro technique.
A Pomodoro technique is you set,like if there is a one hour of task.
You could like 15 minutes of task andthen 10 minutes break, another 15 minutes
(13:36):
of task and 10 minutes break, right?
It's called the promoter timer,and there is an app for that.
You can activate, install it on yourcomputer or mobile phone as well.
So essentially it's all about thebreaking the pattern when you are working
for a longer period of time, takinga break, it just breaks the pattern.
It resets your mind by switching your mindto doing something different, completely
(14:00):
different than what you are doing, right?
And essentially, if you see the sleepis sleep does the same thing to your
mind, it is breaking the pattern, right?
And sometimes you like, taking ashower, just breaking your pattern.
The biggest benefit of takinga break is it helps you.
Break the pattern in order for your mindto be open for any creative new ideas.
Brett (14:28):
Got you.
And for that is, is likebreaking the pattern connect.
Can that also be part of the pattern too?
Because there's somethingcalled like block scheduling
or block or blocking on your.
Calendar where you block time out.
Is that the more beneficial way ofdoing it by blocking your time so
you can actually take the breaks?
Or is it more spontaneous?
(14:49):
Just, I'm gonna take a break now becauseI'm trying to be spontaneous and break
the cycle or the habit or whatever.
Manish Dudharejia (14:57):
So I would say at least once a week you should
block your entire calendar.
And you don't decide what you willbe, what you are gonna do on that
day unless at the same time as anentrepreneur, as a, like a business
owner, you should not be raise yetthat, Hey, I have blocked my calendar.
So today I said I'm not gonna doanything, which is fine, but there are
(15:17):
times, there are days where you haveto do it, although it's boring, right?
Because that's what the needof a business, although it's
boring, you still have to do it.
But I would say, yeah, I think that'sa, that's the way I also do it where
sometimes you just block entire day.
And if that's not the,privilege you have probably like
(15:40):
blocking some hours of the day.
When you are more proactive, those arethe times you block on your calendar.
And then those are the times.
Ideally you don't decide anything.
This is the thing I'm gonnawork on because, sometimes our
minds are not ready for that.
You are blocked.
Particular, my, my classic exampleis like that, think like that you
(16:02):
have blocked the calendar and youhave sent, send an invite to your,
one of your team member that okay.
Of, in afternoon three to five, we aregonna discuss marketing ideas, right?
And believe me, that's nothow you will get ideas.
Not at all, right?
Probably you just have to.
Hang out with your marketing teammore casually, maybe take out them
on a lunch or dinner and then,start having that casual discussion.
(16:26):
Those are the times when you'll comeup with a really good ideas other
than scheduling that brainstormingideas meeting on your calendar.
Yeah, I think there is no rule of thumb.
That you block entire day oryou just block couple of hours.
It really depends on what yourbusiness schedule looks like.
Not everyone have that luxury orprivilege to block entire day.
(16:48):
In that case, you just blockcertain number of hours.
Brett (16:53):
Got you.
And and how has it helped youfor doing this type of thing?
Ha.
Have you seen the benefit of youworking better to be more creative?
Being nicer to your team at more times?
Manish Dudharejia (17:07):
Yeah.
It worked out for me actually reallywell, because, now I have more clarity,
and I do accomplish more this wayrather than feeling like an obligation
that, okay, I have to work this many.
Days and I have to workduring these hours.
Yeah, I have to availableduring the critical times.
(17:28):
Although, I don't like to do that aswell, but it's more about when your job
does not have a schedule that you have toaccomplish this every single day, then you
should definitely plan it in a way whereyou are accomplishing what is needed.
But at the same time you are, youdon't have an obligation for days and
(17:51):
hours where you have to manually workon the things because that's where you
will feel, you'll feel more exhausted.
So it's like that.
If there is a day where you are workinglike 16, 18 hours a day, because.
That's where you aremore inspired naturally.
Then obviously the secondday you go slowly, right?
(18:12):
Because you will not be able to becreative and you really need a rest
to get charged off for the day after.
So you just have to identify yourpattern based on your business needs.
But yeah, it personally definitely helpedme a lot to accomplish actually more
and helped me be more organized and.
(18:33):
It helped me a lot to be clearin my head what's actually looks
like to be really productive.
Brett (18:42):
Got it.
Got you.
And I mean for the founders, it seemslike if you're on your boss, you could
do that for the regular employees.
How do they convince theirboss or maybe how do they find
ways of taking that break?
Because most bosses are like, you gottaget here nine to five, you gotta work.
You're not gonna have theselike breaks that you want to
take, or all day off breaks.
(19:02):
So how do you like balance that partout for just the regular employees?
Manish Dudharejia (19:07):
No, that's a great question and a lot of people
have asked me this similar question.
So here is the thing.
Now, unfortunately, that's not theluxury and that's not the privilege.
Everyone have c certain types of jobswhich required to be, available during the
specific days and specific time period.
Let's take an example of customerservice people where they have to be
(19:28):
available during the specific daysand specific hours, because that's
a nature of their job is but thereare lot of jobs, creatives where,
you know, you, at the end of day youhave to produce an output, right?
And it doesn't matter that whether youare working nine to five or whether
you start working early and you.
(19:49):
Finish off your day early oryou start working late and
finish your day late as well.
So I think, like I said, it'snot luxury or plus for everyone.
It really depends on your job profile.
But I think everyone have that I wouldsay majority have that flexibility.
So what we do at our company,people have their flexibility.
(20:11):
In certain jobs.
Yeah, I understand.
They have to accomplish at the sametime, like I was saying, even as
a founder, although, we have theprivilege, we have the luxury to decide
where we want to when we want to work.
There are days where wecannot have that luxury.
We have to do it becausethat's the business need.
So now that's, that goes same withpeople who also have flexibility in
(20:34):
their jobs, where although they haveflexibility, but there are days.
When they have to be available,although they don't like it.
And that kind of relates to oneof the favorite things which I
read and which is very common.
It's if you see the pattern of moresuccessful people, success is all
about doing boring things consistentlyover the longer period of time.
(20:57):
If you see the successful people,the one of the most qualities you
will see in them is persistence.
Like they have a pattern of doing themost boring things on a consistent basis.
So that's a reality as well.
But that's not true all the times.
And there are and if you arecreative and if you need to function.
(21:22):
Without working in specific time,you'll always figure out these.
Brett (21:26):
And so people are listening to this and they're like more
interested in what you do and like morelearning about how they can do this.
So where can they find you online?
Manish Dudharejia (21:35):
I'm more active on LinkedIn, Twitter.
It's, my name is Manis reia.
It's only me on thisfirst name and last name.
And we, our website,e two m solutions com.
That's our company's website.
That's where you can learn moreabout what we do and that's what
pretty much majority of time I do.
No.
I believe I just one advice fromfrom a founder to a founder and,
(21:59):
from one business person to otherbusiness person is don't go.
I know.
And entrepreneurshipis all about hustling.
Doing business is all about hustling.
But at the same time, find sometime for yourself, reflect on
your experiencing thoughts.
And take it easy.
You, it's a sprint.
You are gonna, you areplaying a long-term game.
(22:21):
So yes, there are days where you willfind, you'll feel burned out, but
always think remember, remind yourselflike, why did you start it here?
Regionally, right?
And that will always.
Keeps you going on.
Brett (22:35):
All right, thank you Manish for joining Digital Coffee Marketing brand
sharing knowledge on taking breaks.
Manish Dudharejia (22:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you, Brett, for having me,
Brett (22:43):
and thank you for listening.
As always, please subscribe to thispodcast on all your favorite podcasting.
Have a five star review, reallydoes help with the rankings.
Let me know I'm doing and join me nextweek as a talk to the great thought
leader in the PR and marketing industry.
Alright guys, stay safe.
Get the understanding how to take a breakthat works for you and see you next week.
Later.
Which is very common.
It's if you see the pattern of moresuccessful people, success is all
about doing boring things consistentlyover the longer period of time.
And entrepreneurshipis all about hustling.
Doing business is all about hustling.
But at the same time, findsome time for yourself.
Reflect.
Brett (00:32):
Mm, that's good.
And welcome to a new episode ofDigital Coffee Marketing Brew, and I'm
your host, Brett Deister interview.
Please subscribe to this podcast andall your favorite podcasting apps.
Really does help with the rankingsand let me know how I am doing.
But this week we're gonna talking about.
(00:53):
A break not your little five, 10 minutebreaks that your company makes you take
no actual like rest and keeping yourselffrom getting a burnout or at least.
Getting away from the burnout.
Anyways, I have Monish with me,and he started this in 2012.
He was determined to createa positive company culture.
He founded E two M, leveraging hisSEO expertise to grow the business,
(01:17):
starting only with $1,200 in investment.
Years later, E two M is now a 200.
Two full-time employee digital agencyspecializing in providing white label
outsourcing services to digital agency.
But welcome to the show.
Thank you Grant.
Thank you for hanging me on the show.
You're welcome.
(01:37):
The first question I ask all my guestsis, are you a coffee or tea drinker?
Manish Dudharejia (01:41):
I am a tea drinker, but I love coffee as well.
Because I'm originally from India andI'm born and brought up over here.
You know the history, right?
Like British people ruled Indiaand that's the reason, like tea
is more popular or here in India.
But I lived in the US and I traveleda lot in the states as well.
So I.
(02:01):
I love coffee, but if I have to chooseone, I'll definitely choose the tea.
Lower.
Brett (02:07):
There's any specific types of tea do you like?
Do you like the white,the black, the ONGs?
Manish Dudharejia (02:13):
It's mainly black tea which is mainly root
here, like specifically in northeastpart of India, that's where
we have the biggest thi farms.
I like green tea as well, soI love drinking green teas.
But on a day to day basis I love,I drink more of a black tea, but
it's more about, we there is a chaiword for tea which is now popular.
(02:38):
I see that, a lot of copies.
Coffee is in the US as well.
Chai is actually, it's not just thetea it's blended with milk and, all
the sort of like Indian herbs likeCardi and sometimes ginger as well.
So that's we call it like, masala, chai.
It's a mix of Indianherbs with a tea and milk.
(02:59):
That does it taste really good.
Brett (03:01):
Nice.
Now you have a briefsummary of your expertise.
Can you little, with the listenersa little bit more about what you do?
Manish Dudharejia (03:06):
I.
Sure.
I'm the founder and CEO of E two M.
Like you said, I started this back in2012 and as we speak we are a team of
over 200 people working with over 200plus agency clients all across the
world and mainly in the United States.
And we solve a specific problem.
Which is like helping agenciessolve bandwidth capacity problems
(03:28):
with our white level services.
That includes like building websites withWordPress, building e-commerce stores,
doing an SEO and content marketing.
And also, as we speak we justacquired another white level WordPress
deal company this month itself.
So with that equation, we are gonna add80 plus new team members to our team.
(03:49):
And we'll be adding 100 plus agencyclients to our client's portfolio.
Starting from July, we'll be a teamof over 300 people serving 300 plus
agency clients and all across the world.
And that will make us oneof the largest white level
workplace developer in the world.
So it's sounds exciting.
And yeah, there are a lotof exciting things going on.
Brett (04:09):
Nice.
We're specifically talking about takingbreaks, and so one of the things I saw
was that this like idea of a 90 day break,so let's say like an entrepreneur or
someone or a founder or someone's tryingto start a business, like how can they
incorporate that into a startup life?
Because startups are just like fast paced.
There are barely any breaks and you don'tsee many founders taking a lot of breaks.
Manish Dudharejia (04:32):
No I agree.
When I started 12 years back,I still remember I used to
work like 18, 20 hours a day.
I barely used to take likefour to six hours of sleep.
And taking a break when youare specifically starting
up is always challeng me.
It's always hard, I have some frameworks,which will be helpful for people who
(04:52):
are starting up, or people who feellike burned out and they don't know,
like how to take a break in betweenand, get recharged in order to make sure
you don't lose your creativity and thenyou still keep the momentum going on.
And I wish I would've learned this wayearlier when I started my business but I'm
glad I learned that one and a half yearback which is a really good framework I
(05:17):
learned, and it works out really well.
So I think we are, we live in a societywhere we believe that okay, the weekdays.
Like Monday to Friday, we have tohave, business hours nine to five
and then week weekends are moreto get energized and get relaxed.
(05:37):
But unfortunately that'snot, how it works.
And I would say it's more of a,fortunately because I don't think, the
creativity, intelligence understands.
The limitations of nine tofive and Monday to Friday.
So we, human beings are not designedto think during the specific time
(05:58):
and during the specific days, right?
So we often make that mistakes thatwe try to be creative during the
weekdays or during the businesshours, but that's not how it works.
I understand.
There are so many things whichare more time sensitive which
you have to do it anyway, whetheryou . You feel like doing it or not?
(06:19):
Which I get it.
But here is the thing that you just haveto think like that In order to be creative
you have to just break this barrier andyou have to just break this a wall of
understanding that, okay, these are thetimes only where you can be creative.
So I'll just put a reallygood example, ago I.
(06:39):
Ran into a situation where therewere days in the weekdays where I
wasn't feeling like doing anything.
I wasn't productive.
And at the end of day I felt I feltlike the regretting that I was seeing
that, my team was really productive.
I didn't accomplish anything.
And I felt kind of regret.
And that kind of made memore think about that.
(07:00):
Whether should I feel it regrettingor not or that's how I am.
And that led me, made me morecurious and started, I started
learning more and more about it.
I started reading more and more about it.
And that's how, I ended up into finding.
Some of the like, validations and I wouldsay more of a conclusion for myself, and
(07:22):
which I found a common pattern in highlysuccessful people as well that you should
really follow a lion framework, right?
And I learned about this lionframework one and a half year ago.
And there is a guy called Noel . Heis a very popular philosopher.
Highly reput and highly popularguy in startup tech investments.
(07:45):
And I always love the way hethinks and then I got to learn
about this line framework whilereading his wisdoms and stuffs.
Essentially it's rest,repeat, and sprint, right?
So ideally you should . There are alwaysdays there are times in a week where
you are fully energized and when youare highly motivated and that's where
(08:05):
you should be working on your all thepriority things and all the things
which you have on your to-do list.
And that's your sprint time.
So there are days where I take an exampleof myself, there are still days, where
I work like 12 to 15, 16 hours a day.
But those are the days when I'm super,super energized and I'm super supercharged
(08:28):
and I'm super, super motivated.
That's my sprint time, right?
And there are one or two days I worklike that and there are one or two days
where I don't feel like working whereI'm just doing some other stuff and.
That is my rest time, right?
Which is more about like you arenot being harsh on yourself and you
don't feel regret if you don't do itbecause you are mentally prepared.
(08:50):
This is my more of a resttime and that ans that kind of
brings to your thing as well.
Taking a break.
So let's take an example.
You know that there are times when you aresuper charged and you run a sprint, then
you, there is a time you take a break.
And then you repeat, right?
So ideally what you have to dois being, when you are starting a
(09:12):
business or you are at a positionin your business where you feel
like, okay, your schedule is crazy.
It's very hard for you to take a longbreaks, then this is the framework you
feel you should really try to follow.
And you can actually Google itin so called a lion framework.
Rest, repeat.
And sprint sprint, rest andrepeat, I would call it.
(09:34):
Put it like that.
So that is something you shouldreally focus on, which kind of helps
you to take in between your weeksrather than taking long breaks.
Brett (09:44):
Yeah, that's it's pretty interesting about the lion method.
'cause you're right, we don't always.
We're not always creative.
Nine to five.
Hell, sometimes I'm creative at3:00 AM in the morning or I have a
dream and it's oh, now I'm creative.
Or I go on a walk with myvery noisy dogs right now.
But let's say they can't take a 90 break.
Let's say they can onlydo like maybe once a week.
(10:06):
Is that beneficial for them as well?
Taking that one time off?
Maybe doing some chores, but not reallyfocusing on like heavy, like work.
Manish Dudharejia (10:17):
Yeah, I think, you e everyone have their own time
of identifying that, okay, theseare the days and these are the times
I'm super, super charged, right?
And these are the times Idon't feel like productive.
So if I take in my exampleI'm more productive at night.
So I'm not an early riser.
I, some of the things, sometimes Ihave to do some of the most important
(10:37):
items and then things to work on.
I usually stay up till latewhen I'm fully focused.
I don't have any disturbance.
I don't have any kind of notificationsand I can actually do a focused
work and I'm, I prefer to do, notdoing any meetings before 11 and I
prefer to do my important meetings.
(10:58):
Which is in the before lunch,in the morning and post lunch, I
don't feel super, super productive.
So that's where I'll keep my othermeetings where it's more about the
discussions and we don't have to do alot of brainstorming and in the evening
time I don't feel so much productive.
So take that time off.
To do something different, right?
So I think, you identified calledlike hyper productive type.
(11:22):
So when you are super hyper productivethose are the times, you try to finish
as much as you have on your plate and thetimes when you are not productive those
are the times, like you said, you takea walk or if you love to play any sort
of musical instruments, you play that.
Or you maybe hit the gym orwhatever it works for you.
(11:45):
Start feeling like lethargicyou start moving your body.
So that's the sign where you don'tforce yourself to work on something.
That's the time you have to move yourbody and just do it what you really like
instead of like just, where you sit andkeep working where you know that you
will not be getting the desired output.
Brett (12:07):
Got you.
And maybe people aren't like convincedright now, like how, what are the
benefits of actually taking a breakbesides rest, but what are the benefits?
Is it creating, is itmaking your mind sharper?
Is it being more creative that way?
Is the rest actually likethat beneficial for them?
Because I'm pretty sure likeeverybody's focused on their job.
They're like, I wannado the best job I can.
But sometimes it's just convincingpeople that breast actually does
(12:31):
make you better at your job.
Manish Dudharejia (12:34):
That's a good question.
See, it breaks the pattern, right?
Technically what happens, I'lltake an analogy of driving, right?
Think like that.
All this, fancy cars and all thelatest cars when you are driving
and when you are driving for anhour or two at certain kilometers,
it'll give you a kind of a warningthat, hey, you should take a break.
And.
(12:55):
Have some coffee or something.
It'll show it on yourspeedometer screen itself.
The reason is, there is a pattern, right?
You are driving for two to three hours.
The chances are most likely high, whereyou start feeling like busy, where you
might fi start like feeling like sleepy.
Now we have all these autonomous cars,so thanks to that, but think like that.
(13:16):
The same goes with work as well.
When you are working and thereis a . There is one technique
called, I think it's a Pomodoro.
Yeah it's called a Pomodoro.
It's a Pomodoro timer, right?
Pomodoro technique.
A Pomodoro technique is you set,like if there is a one hour of task.
You could like 15 minutes of task andthen 10 minutes break, another 15 minutes
(13:36):
of task and 10 minutes break, right?
It's called the promoter timer,and there is an app for that.
You can activate, install it on yourcomputer or mobile phone as well.
So essentially it's all about thebreaking the pattern when you are working
for a longer period of time, takinga break, it just breaks the pattern.
It resets your mind by switching your mindto doing something different, completely
(14:00):
different than what you are doing, right?
And essentially, if you see the sleepis sleep does the same thing to your
mind, it is breaking the pattern, right?
And sometimes you like, taking ashower, just breaking your pattern.
The biggest benefit of takinga break is it helps you.
Break the pattern in order for your mindto be open for any creative new ideas.
Brett (14:28):
Got you.
And for that is, is likebreaking the pattern connect.
Can that also be part of the pattern too?
Because there's somethingcalled like block scheduling
or block or blocking on your.
Calendar where you block time out.
Is that the more beneficial way ofdoing it by blocking your time so
you can actually take the breaks?
Or is it more spontaneous?
(14:49):
Just, I'm gonna take a break now becauseI'm trying to be spontaneous and break
the cycle or the habit or whatever.
Manish Dudharejia (14:57):
So I would say at least once a week you should
block your entire calendar.
And you don't decide what you willbe, what you are gonna do on that
day unless at the same time as anentrepreneur, as a, like a business
owner, you should not be raise yetthat, Hey, I have blocked my calendar.
So today I said I'm not gonna doanything, which is fine, but there are
(15:17):
times, there are days where you haveto do it, although it's boring, right?
Because that's what the needof a business, although it's
boring, you still have to do it.
But I would say, yeah, I think that'sa, that's the way I also do it where
sometimes you just block entire day.
And if that's not the,privilege you have probably like
(15:40):
blocking some hours of the day.
When you are more proactive, those arethe times you block on your calendar.
And then those are the times.
Ideally you don't decide anything.
This is the thing I'm gonnawork on because, sometimes our
minds are not ready for that.
You are blocked.
Particular, my, my classic exampleis like that, think like that you
(16:02):
have blocked the calendar and youhave sent, send an invite to your,
one of your team member that okay.
Of, in afternoon three to five, we aregonna discuss marketing ideas, right?
And believe me, that's nothow you will get ideas.
Not at all, right?
Probably you just have to.
Hang out with your marketing teammore casually, maybe take out them
on a lunch or dinner and then,start having that casual discussion.
(16:26):
Those are the times when you'll comeup with a really good ideas other
than scheduling that brainstormingideas meeting on your calendar.
Yeah, I think there is no rule of thumb.
That you block entire day oryou just block couple of hours.
It really depends on what yourbusiness schedule looks like.
Not everyone have that luxury orprivilege to block entire day.
(16:48):
In that case, you just blockcertain number of hours.
Brett (16:53):
Got you.
And and how has it helped youfor doing this type of thing?
Ha.
Have you seen the benefit of youworking better to be more creative?
Being nicer to your team at more times?
Manish Dudharejia (17:07):
Yeah.
It worked out for me actually reallywell, because, now I have more clarity,
and I do accomplish more this wayrather than feeling like an obligation
that, okay, I have to work this many.
Days and I have to workduring these hours.
Yeah, I have to availableduring the critical times.
(17:28):
Although, I don't like to do that aswell, but it's more about when your job
does not have a schedule that you have toaccomplish this every single day, then you
should definitely plan it in a way whereyou are accomplishing what is needed.
But at the same time you are, youdon't have an obligation for days and
(17:51):
hours where you have to manually workon the things because that's where you
will feel, you'll feel more exhausted.
So it's like that.
If there is a day where you are workinglike 16, 18 hours a day, because.
That's where you aremore inspired naturally.
Then obviously the secondday you go slowly, right?
(18:12):
Because you will not be able to becreative and you really need a rest
to get charged off for the day after.
So you just have to identify yourpattern based on your business needs.
But yeah, it personally definitely helpedme a lot to accomplish actually more
and helped me be more organized and.
(18:33):
It helped me a lot to be clearin my head what's actually looks
like to be really productive.
Brett (18:42):
Got it.
Got you.
And I mean for the founders, it seemslike if you're on your boss, you could
do that for the regular employees.
How do they convince theirboss or maybe how do they find
ways of taking that break?
Because most bosses are like, you gottaget here nine to five, you gotta work.
You're not gonna have theselike breaks that you want to
take, or all day off breaks.
(19:02):
So how do you like balance that partout for just the regular employees?
Manish Dudharejia (19:07):
No, that's a great question and a lot of people
have asked me this similar question.
So here is the thing.
Now, unfortunately, that's not theluxury and that's not the privilege.
Everyone have c certain types of jobswhich required to be, available during the
specific days and specific time period.
Let's take an example of customerservice people where they have to be
(19:28):
available during the specific daysand specific hours, because that's
a nature of their job is but thereare lot of jobs, creatives where,
you know, you, at the end of day youhave to produce an output, right?
And it doesn't matter that whether youare working nine to five or whether
you start working early and you.
(19:49):
Finish off your day early oryou start working late and
finish your day late as well.
So I think, like I said, it'snot luxury or plus for everyone.
It really depends on your job profile.
But I think everyone have that I wouldsay majority have that flexibility.
So what we do at our company,people have their flexibility.
(20:11):
In certain jobs.
Yeah, I understand.
They have to accomplish at the sametime, like I was saying, even as
a founder, although, we have theprivilege, we have the luxury to decide
where we want to when we want to work.
There are days where wecannot have that luxury.
We have to do it becausethat's the business need.
So now that's, that goes same withpeople who also have flexibility in
(20:34):
their jobs, where although they haveflexibility, but there are days.
When they have to be available,although they don't like it.
And that kind of relates to oneof the favorite things which I
read and which is very common.
It's if you see the pattern of moresuccessful people, success is all
about doing boring things consistentlyover the longer period of time.
(20:57):
If you see the successful people,the one of the most qualities you
will see in them is persistence.
Like they have a pattern of doing themost boring things on a consistent basis.
So that's a reality as well.
But that's not true all the times.
And there are and if you arecreative and if you need to function.
(21:22):
Without working in specific time,you'll always figure out these.
Brett (21:26):
And so people are listening to this and they're like more
interested in what you do and like morelearning about how they can do this.
So where can they find you online?
Manish Dudharejia (21:35):
I'm more active on LinkedIn, Twitter.
It's, my name is Manis reia.
It's only me on thisfirst name and last name.
And we, our website,e two m solutions com.
That's our company's website.
That's where you can learn moreabout what we do and that's what
pretty much majority of time I do.
No.
I believe I just one advice fromfrom a founder to a founder and,
(21:59):
from one business person to otherbusiness person is don't go.
I know.
And entrepreneurshipis all about hustling.
Doing business is all about hustling.
But at the same time, find sometime for yourself, reflect on
your experiencing thoughts.
And take it easy.
You, it's a sprint.
You are gonna, you areplaying a long-term game.
(22:21):
So yes, there are days where you willfind, you'll feel burned out, but
always think remember, remind yourselflike, why did you start it here?
Regionally, right?
And that will always.
Keeps you going on.
Brett (22:35):
All right, thank you Manish for joining Digital Coffee Marketing brand
sharing knowledge on taking breaks.
Manish Dudharejia (22:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you, Brett, for having me,
Brett (22:43):
and thank you for listening.
As always, please subscribe to thispodcast on all your favorite podcasting.
Have a five star review, reallydoes help with the rankings.
Let me know I'm doing and join me nextweek as a talk to the great thought
leader in the PR and marketing industry.
Alright guys, stay safe.
Get the understanding how to take a breakthat works for you and see you next week.
Later.
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