May 7, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of Digital Coffee Marketing Brew, host Brett Deister discusses the advantages of podcast PR over traditional PR with guest Michelle Glogovac, a podcast publicist and host of the award-winning podcast 'My Simplified Life.' They delve into how podcasts offer unique opportunities for storytelling, building trust, and reaching niche audiences. Michelle shares insights on the importance of personalized pitches, the long-term benefits of podcast appearances, and the cost-efficiency of podcast PR campaigns versus traditional PR. They also touch upon the role of AI in PR, the growing podcast landscape, and strategies for repurposing podcast content for broader marketing efforts.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I love that podcasts allow us to listen to stories we wouldn't otherwise
(00:03):
hear, to build empathy, to gain knowledge, to
since there's so many different types of podcasts, you can be
entertained, you can laugh, you can cry, you can learn how to build a business.
With a podcast, it's a lot of
hobbyists. You know, this is a side hustle. This is something that
people are doing on the side of their full time job, so you
(00:26):
have to practice a lot more patience. And when a host brings on
a guest, that trust is extended to the guest.
And so a listener is going to say, well, you know, if Brett had him
on the show, then they must know what they're talking about because Brett Brett's not
gonna bring on someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. And I want to
also remind people that, you know, size is not what you should be looking
(00:48):
at. You need to look at the value of who's listening
because
That's good. And welcome to a new episode
(01:10):
of Digital Coffee Marketing Brew. I'm your host,
Brett Deister. If you could please subscribe to this podcast and all your favorite podcasting
apps, leave a five star review. It really does help with the rankings, and let
me know how I am doing. But this week, we're gonna be talking about
well, we're gonna be talking about traditional v
PR versus podcasting PR. I know it's a very interesting
(01:32):
little little play on things, but I think it's gonna be a very interesting
episode because PR is PR. We always need to learn new things. But with me,
I have Michelle with me, and she is the podcast
matchmaker, a podcast publicist, and host of award winning
podcast, My Simplified Life. She works with entrepreneurs,
authors, and experts hone in on their story
(01:55):
abilities, grow their business, and elevate themselves
as a thought leader. Her first book, how to get
on podcast debuts in well, it did did debut in
January 2024. And Michelle is a wife, mom of two,
stepmom of two, and a fur mom as well. But
welcome, Michelle, Michelle. Thank you so much for having me, Brett. I'm
(02:16):
excited to be here. Yes. And the first question is, all my guest is, are
you a coffee or tea drinker? Coffee.
Tea maybe in the afternoon, in the winter, but, otherwise, it is coffee,
coffee, coffee. You have any, like, specifics on what
coffee do you like, or is it just kinda give me whatever is hot or
and or cold? I prefer flavored coffee. So right
(02:38):
now, since we're in fall and pumpkin spice is out, it is
pumpkin it's ground coffee, but it is flavored otherwise. Usually, it's
hazelnut for the non fall, but I will buy it at
Target in bulk to the point where I can drink my pumpkin
flavored coffee until May.
That's fair. That's fair. And I gave a brief summary of your expertise and your
(03:01):
listeners a little bit more about what you do.
Yes. So I my clients all get on
podcast to be interviewed around their expertise.
And, you know, I've seen a lot of agency owners who
say, you know, this is the best way to sell, to promote your book, but
I prefer to have my clients go on to share their story and their
(03:22):
knowledge. We know that at the end of every podcast, the host is
gonna say, where can people find you? Where can they buy their book? All of
that good stuff. So the whole purpose of an interview
is to share your knowledge, to share you know, if you have a book, what's
in the book? To share your story of how you got started in your business.
Why do you do what you do? And to really tackle it from that
(03:44):
angle and to, you know, give people something
that they didn't know about before, something that resonates with them.
I love that podcasts allow us to listen to stories we wouldn't otherwise
hear to build empathy, to gain knowledge,
to since there's so many different types of podcasts, you can be
entertained. You can laugh. You can cry. You can learn how to build a business.
(04:08):
You can do anything by listening to a podcast. And
so my job is to define what those
topics are for my clients and then to create media kits,
pitch them to podcasts that align with their message, their target
audience, and then help them repurpose that content
into marketing content so that it is not finished when
(04:30):
the recording stops. They can utilize their shows,
their interviews in all kinds of ways with quotes, with
graphics, and promoting it across a lot of platforms
instead of simply just the podcast as a podcast host does as
well. So how does the reach for
podcast PR compare to traditional PR? Because traditional PR, you have to go
(04:52):
to the journalist. You have to pitch your story. You have to hope
that the journalist will actually open the email. You have to hope that they actually
read the email. Like, there's a lot of hoping and doing a lot
of research. I mean, you have to do a lot of research for the podcast
as well, but a lot more research because you have to make sure that they
are still at the place that you are pitching it to. And
(05:13):
if they're not, then you kinda have to go, where did I go wrong?
So, like, what is the difference between reaches?
There's a lot of similarity in that you have to do your research. You have
to make sure the show is still being produced and is active.
You know, just as the the journalist there. But one of the big differences
is that news has a cycle where you're trying
(05:35):
to garner that attention quickly because there's always breaking
news. There's something else that's happening in the media. So how is it that
you fit in, and do you fit in within that
timeline? You know? And if we're not talking about breaking news, maybe you're looking at,
you know, I need to get on that holiday list that they have coming out.
Well, you need to be looking at that, like, six months in advance.
(05:57):
With a podcast, it's a lot of
hobbyists. You know, this is a side hustle. This is something that
people are doing on the side of their full time job. So you
have to practice a lot more patience. Nobody is sitting here
pining away waiting for that pitch because there's just no one
who wants to be a guest on my show. Everybody wants to be a
(06:19):
guest. And so you have to practice that patience, and that's why it's
so important to personalize the pitch, to create these speaking
topics that align with what the host is trying to put out
there, and then not following up within twenty four hours.
When you're looking at a journalist or a reporter, you're following
up quickly because you need to get that story out there.
(06:42):
When it's a podcast, you shouldn't be following up for maybe two to
three weeks, you know, if that, because
there's the full time job. Like I said, they're doing something where they're
not sitting here going, oh, what else can I get? I I need
that email. I need that pitch. Whereas a journalist is, they
are constantly getting new stories. You know, what is it going to be?
(07:04):
Another difference is in the pitch itself. A
pitch to a journalist is going to be concise. You have to get right
to the point. This is what we're talking about. This is it. Whereas a
podcast pitch is longer. Here are why we
relate to you and your show, and we've listened to it. And here's a two
or three sentence bio on the client, and then here are the speaking
(07:27):
topics. And here's where our client's been featured. So it's a lot
more here's everything that there is so that the
host does not have to leave the email unless they're choosing
to click on a hyperlink of the name to go to the website or the
podcast that they were most recently interviewed on
versus something that's very short and concise and gets right to the
(07:48):
point. So those are two of the big differences along with
you know, if you're going on TV and you're being interviewed for a couple
minutes, that's it. It's a couple minutes. A podcast is
anywhere from twenty to sixty minutes. So it's much longer
form of content, and then that'll also allows you
to pull more content from it to repurpose it versus if you
(08:11):
only got two minutes of airtime, that was it. You know? Did you
have one good quote in those two minutes versus having sixty
minutes of a whole lot of talking in which
things can be pulled from? So those are the big differences between
traditional PR and podcast PR.
(08:31):
And, I do like to mention that there is something called pod fade, which
basically is people do release
their podcast episodes, but then eventually don't release their
podcast episodes and eventually does die. So there is
a vast amount of that going on the podcasting industry
specifically, plus most don't actually go beyond their third
(08:53):
episode. Most do. So, yeah, so if you're if
you're on episode four, you beat out the majority of other podcast.
It's so sad, and yet yet that is, you know, the statistic,
of what it is. And some some
will be on forever. I'm on episode I think I oh, I just
released two forty five this week.
(09:17):
So it it's crazy, but you have to look and
see, you know, are they still active, active, and when was the most
active episode? Was it a month ago? And if it was
a month ago, was that month because they only release one per
month? You know, how consistent are they? So those are
definitely things that need to be looked at. And, I mean, what are the
(09:38):
unique advantages of podcast PR offer
building a personal connection with the audiences? Is it just is
it just basically, like, being, the audience being aware of
you now, or is it more than that? More than that because they get
to hear your voice. You were literally in their ear. You get
to share your story. You get to share your knowledge,
(10:00):
and there's also the trust factor. You know, people are
listening to podcasts that they trust. They show up
every week listening to that host, that episode, because
they enjoy it. They wanna hear more of what that host is putting out there.
And when a host brings on a guest, that trust is extended
to the guest. And so a listener is going to say, well, you know, if
(10:23):
Brett had him on the show, then they must know what they're talking about because
Brett Brett's not gonna bring on someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. So
that trust is automatically given to you instead
of a cold call where you're sending an email out saying, hey. Do
you wanna work with me? And you know nothing about me, and they're just words
on a screen. Somebody's listening now to you
(10:45):
telling what you know, telling the story of why you started
your business. You get to really be yourself, and they get
to know you by listening to this conversation. And so that
that's a really big deal. That's a gift in my
opinion. And that's why, you know, being a podcast guest
is is so worthwhile because you remove these
(11:07):
barriers, and you also have that trust extended to you from the
get go. And speaking of
costs, since everybody is very worried about how everything costs
these days, what is the cost between a podcast PR
campaign and traditional PR campaign? A
podcast campaign is going to be less expensive than
(11:29):
traditional, and the results are going to be better with a
podcast, tour per
se, because, you know, we we can't guarantee anything. Anyone who
says either traditional or podcast, I guarantee
this, don't do it because nobody can guarantee. I can't
guarantee that, you know, well, I've been on Brett's show, so I know he's going
(11:51):
to take my pitch for this next guest. I can't guarantee that
because I'm not the host of this show. So don't look
for a guarantee because that's not okay.
When we look at podcasts, what I say is I will guarantee
you a certain amount of interviews. And so that means
that we're going to work as hard as we can and as hard as possible
(12:15):
to secure those interviews. We don't
we don't guarantee size audience sizes, but we will give you all of
the stats behind the show that we have access to.
And I want to also remind people that, you know, size is not
what you should be looking at. You need to look at the value of
who's listening. Because if you come on to a show
(12:38):
where your job is all about marketing and we're talking about marketing
and maybe there's 500 listeners, that's perfect
because we want to talk to the marketers versus if you just went on a
show that was aimed at auto mechanics and there were a million
mechanics that were listening that don't care about marketing, then what is
the point? You'd rather get to targeted 500 listeners
(13:01):
versus a million who just aren't interested. So those are things to
all, you know, pay attention to as well. And a podcast, you
you get that targeted audience versus traditional media. You
might have somewhat of a target depending on, you know, are you going to a
certain magazine that focuses on your audience,
maybe, or are you on a TV show that you don't know who's watching? And
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it could be a lot of different people that the target audience is not
there. So be prepared also to invest, you know,
anywhere from podcasts. There are agencies that might charge
500 to 5,000 a month. A PR company
for traditional PR is going to be multiple thousands,
5, 10, 15, up to a hundred thousand a month. So there are
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big differences. I wish I was charging a hundred thousand a month.
I wouldn't have to work so hard. We all
thought we all wish we were charging a hundred thousand a month. But,
I mean, it is true that it's significantly
less money to actually do podcast because, well,
it's not as built up. Plus, you also do get that niche because
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and I think what PR people and marketers traditionally think is that
the bigger the number, the more awareness they get. But then it's not
the right awareness because yeah. Just because
your industry like, for example, marketing. Marketing is not as popular
as, say, like, gaming is. Like, gaming in general is gonna have a bigger
audience because you have young and old gamers. With marketing, you have a
(14:32):
very specific, smaller, specific group
because there's only a certain amount of marketers because there's only a certain amount of
businesses. And so I think for me, a lot of
PR marketers get it wrong saying that we should have this big audience and be
like, no. You you have the right audience.
So in what ways do p podcast PR
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help establish thought leadership more effective way than traditional
PR? More time to really share
your knowledge, to share what you've learned, what you do, how you
do it, why you do it, then, you know, if if you were going
on a two minute TV interview where you don't
get to share all of this. You get a big stage, but is
(15:17):
it really going to promote what you know, who you are,
and all of that? This is and this is also where you get to reach
other people. You don't know who's listening. You have no idea who
could be listening to this podcast right now, and it could be the
one person who goes, oh, yes. I not only wanna work with you. Maybe you
need to write a book. Maybe you need to do a TED talk. Maybe you
(15:39):
need to have your own show. There could be somebody listening who is
going to help elevate you to that next level. And the more
people you reach out to and they get to hear
all of your knowledge, then that promotes you as the thought leader.
This is putting yourself out there, and that's why it's so important to
share these interviews, to repurpose them so that people
(16:01):
can see and hear from you in all of these different ways
of yeah. You know what? Michelle knows what she's talking about because she keeps appearing
on these podcasts, and she's talking about podcast interviews. And
so that then presents you and
elevates you as the thought leader, as the expert in
whatever industry niche that you are in because you keep
(16:22):
showing up, you keep talking about it, and people hear that
repetition in a good way. Not in a, oh, boy. She's talking about it
again. Here we go. But, yeah, she's been invited on this show because
she knows what she's talking about because she is talking about podcast
interviews. And then just moving on to content
wise because, I mean, traditional PR does have its
(16:44):
place, but I feel like with podcast PR, you have
you can have a blog post about your episode. You can have the audio, the
video, the shorts, the audiograms. Like, it
seems like there's a longer tail of content that you could
repurpose through PR podcast PR than actual
traditional PR. Absolutely. You know, if
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you're getting on TV and you've got that two minute clip, then there you go.
There's your two minute clip, and you got probably one quote. Whereas
if you're on a podcast, you do have, some cases, video.
You always have the audio. That's going to live forever on all
of the the podcast platforms. There are show notes that you
can put into a blog post. There are, you know, tweets that you can
(17:28):
do on x. You can put a thread on. You can do it on Instagram.
You can do a story. You can do a reel. You can do a post.
You know, right there, there's three different pieces of content. Then you can use
Facebook. Use Pinterest. There's so many different ways. I
also create a Spotify playlist for all of my clients to put
all of your shows, your interviews in one spot. That one
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playlist can then be embedded on your website, on your press page.
It can be put onto your LinkedIn, under your media, for your current
job. There's so many different ways that you can repurpose
content. You know, we pull a transcript for every
client interview, and then we highlight the quotes of this
was a really good thing you said you should make it into a quote graphic.
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You know, stop quoting famous people or celebrities, quote yourself.
So that way people see that you are the thought leader, and you're also
thanking the host because you're promoting their podcast by
mentioning them and giving them a plug as well. So
it's a it's a double whammy of promoting yourself in a non
sleazy way while also thanking your host for having you
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and hopefully bringing them more listeners as well. And what metrics should
we be using? Now I do know as a podcaster myself,
podcasting metrics aren't the best. I do think they need to
change. I think downloads is a very simplistic
way of gauging the how invested the
audience is. I do think time spent is probably a better metric,
(18:57):
but we're we're still here. So I'll just let I'll let the metric people try
to figure that out. But, I mean, what metrics should they be using?
We look across the board at, you know, how many reviews do they have on
Apple? Do they have some on Spotify? We also then look at,
I have Podchaser, so I can see the approximate downloads,
listens. But unless you pay for that, you don't get to see that. You can
(19:19):
look at listen notes, which I I I love
and hate listen notes because I think that, you know, I'm in the top 2%.
Well, it's not that hard to get in the top 2% because as long as
you're consistent, you're showing up, and you're promote you're doing an episode, then you
basically get in that top 5% of podcast because, like
you said, most aren't making it past the third episode. The
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other thing we look at is social media. You know, do they have a following
on Instagram? And if they have 10,000 followers, let's look
at a post because out of 10,000 followers, only three people are liking their
posts. So maybe they bought those followers. You know, now you can
buy reviews. I I get Apple Podcast promoters in
my LinkedIn stuff all day long. So everything
(20:03):
can be bought now, which is unfortunate, and that's why we look
at all of the different platforms to see, is it
consistent? You know, if a show has a thousand
reviews, well, how many followers do they have on Instagram? And does
that correlate to each other? So we look at everything to kind
of get a bigger picture of, is this legit? Isn't
(20:25):
it, you know, and then simply reading the description. I
think people forget to just read the description of the show to see who is
the target audience and look at that. Don't get so hung up
on numbers. You know, this would also come into
play if someone asks you to pay to be a guest on their
show because I have found that those who want
(20:47):
money, and I do not pay, do not pay to be a podcast
guest, do not pay for traditional PR placement.
That's advertising either way. And if a podcast host
says, well, you know, I've got a million downloads, and I I do this, do
that, go to their YouTube. Do they actually have subscribers there? And it will
tell you how many views they get. These are public things that you can look
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at. So it takes some extra work, some due diligence, but
there are certain numbers that you can look at and identify and get a good
feel for. Is this truly accurate or not? Yeah.
The bane of my existence is podcast promoters. I swear I get so I got,
like, five of them a day, and it's very, very annoying. I never
respond to them. I never follow them, and I never will
(21:32):
because I do not want that headache. Yeah. It's
them. And do you wanna grow your Instagram by 10,000 followers?
Yeah. Like, all of that, I'm like, stop it. Or on YouTube or
Rumble, it's the same thing. Do you wanna grow this? I see you get less
things. I'm like, yeah. I'm growing my channel, dude. Like, it doesn't happen
overnight. Yeah. Organic growth is is much better
(21:54):
than purchasing followers. Yeah. So
yeah. Look at the podcaster. Usually, most podcasters will never
make you pay or any of that. I don't do it, and we
usually never use, like, the spam stuff because we all know that
it hurts in the long run. Yeah. And if if they do
want you to pay and you're willing to pay despite
(22:16):
being advised not to pay, you know, pay attention also. Are they
letting their audience know that this guest has paid to be on
their show? Because there are rules and regulations per the government
that they have to let the audience know that this is a
paid guest, just like with advertising on
TV because it is advertising. So, you know, we
(22:39):
we need this is it's the the wild, wild west is podcast where
it's great that we have so much flexibility, but at the same time,
some people are abusing it. And at some point, there will be
crackdowns, you know, for that type of a thing. So if
you're paying, pay attention to what is the host saying, and
are they disclosing it? Unfortunately, it's always a
(23:01):
smaller group that ruins it for everybody else.
But I'm speaking about how how does the targeting
capability of PR podcasts compare to traditional PR
methods? You can get much deeper in who you're
targeting. You know, I work with a lot of authors, so we
look at what is your book about, who is going to read your book. Now
(23:23):
what types of podcasts are they listening to? You know, are the Beach
Reads all a bunch of moms that are listening? Then let's target the mom
podcast. You can get much deeper, much more specific when
it comes to podcasts versus traditional
PR. You know, there are going to be places and
blogs and, magazines and digital outlets that you
(23:45):
can target a more specific audience, but
podcast can truly dig down. I the call I was
on just before this, we were talking about a romantacy podcast where
they literally only talk to romance,
authors. So you get very targeted. Those are the people who are listening.
They they want to hear the those authors because those are the books they're
(24:08):
reading. You can't do that really on TV. So
it becomes much more specific, and that's a great thing because you
get to reach the audience that you want to. And
what do you think what types of businesses or individuals benefit from
podcast PR? Because I always say not everybody should
(24:28):
start a podcast, but everybody should be a guest.
I agree, because there's a lot of reasons why not everybody should start one.
One of them is you have to be consistent. You have to show up.
With being a podcast guest, you do need to show up by all means.
You need to, you know, be professional. You need to have your setup for your
audio and your video. But I agree that everybody can
(24:51):
benefit from being a podcast guest because we all have a story to share.
We all have some sort of a pivot that's brought us to where we are.
We all have a reason why we do what we do. Why do
you wake up in the morning excited to do your job? Why did
you write the book that you wrote? What parts of you are in
that book? What is it about your team that
(25:14):
they show up every day for work? You know, what type of clients
are you working with? What type of knowledge do you have? Do
you do you have tips that you can share with somebody about what you
do for work that you can then help someone else do
it too? You're not gonna put yourself out of a job. You're simply sharing
that knowledge. And somebody who listens to a podcast where you're
(25:36):
sharing what you do and how you do it, they're gonna go, oh, that
was great that Michelle shared how to pitch a podcast, and
she did that for free. So imagine then what's going to happen when
you work with me and you pay me to do this for you, how
worthwhile that will be. It's a way to allow people to get to
know you, and yet it's also a comfortable, relaxed setting because
(25:59):
it's just a conversation between two people that everyone gets to
eavesdrop on. So for people who are, you know, more introverted
and don't wanna take the stage, this is a great way to simply have a
one on one conversation with another human being, be
yourself, show up, and yet you're going to also reach
hundreds, thousands, potentially millions of people by doing
(26:21):
podcast interviews. And if you have a good podcast host, it won't even
feel like it's like an interview because it will really be a good
conversation. So always find a good podcast host because they will
guide you as opposed to their learning podcast
host. I'll just say that they're learning how to do it. Like, just find that
one that will help you guide through because we are really guides to this
(26:43):
interview style. Exactly. Yes. And, you you know,
I think a good host is going to be able to read the body
language, to hear the voice of, oh, you know what? This person's nervous,
so let me talk about this instead. Or maybe,
you know, there's another question that I can ask. And that's why it's so important
for both parts to do their homework, you know, to do their research
(27:06):
on who they're interviewing and for the guests to do
their research on who they're being interviewed by. So that way you get
a more comfortable feeling when you show up versus, you know, meeting someone in the
coffee line and saying, hey. Nice shirt. That's
it. You don't know the person. But if you do some
stalking ahead of time, then at least you know that you can have a a
(27:28):
question or two in your back pocket. I always appreciate someone saying
nice shirt, but, I mean, if you see me, more power to you. If you
dealt to me, I'll be like, oh, thank you.
Anyways, in what ways can the podcast
PR be integrated with a comprehensive strategy with traditional? Because I feel like
these can two be very there there can be a lot of symmetry
(27:51):
between them because of the different natures of them.
Can be. And I think that both is is a great strategy.
You know? It it's just that you need to make sure that whoever's pitching you
understands the differences because it can't be the same
type of pitch, the same format for both of them. So
it does take more work and effort on the part of
(28:13):
the publicist. I've worked with PR companies, agencies
where they've brought me in to do the podcast part because it
is so different. And, you know, that's very helpful for the
client to get two experts who know what to do
and how to do it and, you know, team up, but at the same time,
go our separate ways and get the job done. So definitely
(28:36):
integrate both. You know, we would have weekly team meetings of,
okay. Where are you and and did this angle work? You know, there's this breaking
news that might be applicable to you. But, again, podcasting
is much more long term. So we're not going to
we might get a yes on a pitch, and then the calendar link isn't open
(28:57):
for two more months. And then you record, and it's another month before it comes
out. So breaking news is not really the way
to go for podcasts unless you are getting on one of those breaking news podcasts
where they are doing something every single day. So it's a much
longer game. The same can be said for traditional PR. You
might not get a placement for six months to a year. But at least with
(29:19):
a podcast, you're getting a yes. You're getting a calendar link much sooner.
It's just that nobody can guarantee when this is all going to happen.
It's true. I mean, I a lot of times, it's months ahead
for what I'm actually doing because, I mean, you get a lot of guests. You
prerecord all this stuff. So and plus mine's not timely at
all. I mean, we talk about marketing and PR, and, yes, there's some new
(29:43):
trends, but they're not traditional marketing and traditional PR
is always gonna be the same. There's nothing different about it. Yeah.
And some like to you know, I love to batch record. I love to be
able to get ahead, especially if the summer months are coming or, you know, the
holidays are around the corner. Right now, I'm into the October, and
we're recording this in the September. So, you know,
(30:04):
if you have something that needs to come out, October 1
for my show, you're too late because it's already done. So you have to
plan ahead. And you could also ask the host if they
can move it up too, because a lot of them will be like, okay. That's
fine. I can rearrange things, but don't expect and I've
had some guests be like, oh, so when is it coming up? And be like,
(30:25):
I told you it's been several months. Let the process work out. I
will let you know when it it gets released. Don't badger me because then you're
gonna make me mad. Right. And then it'll never come out.
Imagine that, because there's that too. It could be
that, you know, and that's on both ends, traditionally and podcasts that something
happens and maybe a show stops airing and there goes
(30:47):
that interview. You know, it it could be that breaking news happened and
there went your interview over there. So, yeah, it can
happen. And, I mean, can you use the role
of AI within podcast PR? I mean, we're gonna have to talk about it
because everybody's using AI. I will admit that I do use
AI to help me automate a lot of this stuff. Can you use that for
(31:09):
research and maybe either our first draft pitch or to help
you clarify pitches? Is that does that
work? I've tested it. I've I've told AI
to pitch myself to my own show,
and I was surprised at what it regurgitated because it said that I
had been interviewed places that I've never been interviewed.
(31:31):
So you and and AI tells you, you know, fact check it. So
there are some errors. I would say don't use it because you need
to personalize it. You need to listen.
The times when I do use it might be if I need a bio
changed for a client because they've given it to me in first person, and I
want it changed to third person. If I have topic
(31:54):
ideas that I'm not feeling as creative with my
words than to throw in what I already have created
and ask it to, you know, make it sound more professional or be more
creative or do something to that extent, then I will use
it. But I I rarely copy and paste
it word for word. I change it even then some more. So for me, it's
(32:16):
more of a brainstorming. What do I have? I love the you know,
to use it as a process. I do use it for my show, like, for
show notes, because there's already a format. Just pull,
you know, things together, that type of a thing. But, again, the
content's already created. It's just, you know, formatting
it in a in a nicer way. So that's when I would use it,
(32:39):
but not to write a pitch. I know there are agencies who are using it
for pitch writing, and I cringe be because I've tested it, and I I don't
like it. Eventually. But right now, yes.
Check all your stuff, reread it over, change it minorly if you
do. I do think they are getting better, but I don't think they're there yet.
Yeah. I I still think there's a ways to go. And
(33:02):
what are some of the challenges that podcast PR
may face that traditional PR doesn't face at all?
Oh, that's a good question. You
know, with podcasts, we're it's changing. It's always because it
is even though it's been around for over two decades, it's
still new. It's still, you know, question people question,
(33:25):
oh, well, is it going away? Is it growing? And, you know, with
the pandemic, we saw podcasts grow immensely
of new shows coming on, but then you also saw shows fall off
because we were all stuck at home and people who had a studio didn't know
how to record at home. And then you saw people who have kids who
went, oh, now I can't record because there's too much noise. We've got homeschooling
(33:47):
and all of that. So not knowing what the future is
going to hold, you don't know. I think it's going to continue to
grow. I think that we see, you know, Spotify.
We see iHeart. We see more deals continue to be done
with celebrity hosts. We see more true crime
popping up. It's growing. I don't think it's going anywhere.
(34:11):
So in that sense, I think that a podcast publicist is in a great
spot. We do see more of the automation, the AI, you know,
more of these, websites where you can
just sign up and be a guest, and that's it. But are
those shows going to stick around too? So I think it's important
to continue that personalized touch, for a podcast
(34:33):
publicist to make sure that that doesn't go away,
and and for those to be replaced per se.
It is true. Unfortunately, a lot of times, it changes a little too quickly where
Google just decides to take away things and move things around.
And from Google if people don't know, from Google Podcast
to YouTube Music, that's been, like, the biggest headache is Google
(34:55):
decides to make something and then do away with it, then you have to pivot
because it's Google. Right. So don't put all your eggs in one
basket. This is true. But, yeah, it is it is changing.
Spotify added comments. So if you wanna comment on this podcast,
be be sure to do it. They also added video to it so you
can now upload videos. So there's a lot of things changing. We are pushing into
(35:17):
video a little bit more, which for better than worst,
that's just how it is. I mean, you just kinda have to roll with the
punches or figure out how to do a better job with just your audio if
you want to. So, I mean,
where do, where do you think, like we're going with
podcast, PR or podcast in general? Are we going to see more
(35:39):
podcasts, more niching going on? Because I mean, the future is
still up in the air. It is growing. I mean, I've seen all the numbers.
The numbers always say it's growing. It's not growing as fast as it was during
the pandemic, but that's because it's a different we're back into the
somewhat normal settings where people go out and have jobs. So
where is the future going? Is it gonna be more video
(36:00):
centric podcast and less about audio,
or is audio still gonna play a really big role on it? I think audio
is still gonna play a really big role. I think that not everybody's pivoting
to video, because no you know, who's
sitting down and has time to watch? It's it's the same thing with television. You
know? Are you watching all of your shows? Are you streaming them?
(36:22):
You know, there there's a difference in all of that. So I think the audio
is still going to be extremely relevant. It's not going
anywhere. You will see more videos. And if you wanna watch the
videos and watch the interview, then, you know, that's great. Or maybe you wanna match
the face to the voice, then you can go and and look at even
the episode art if you want to or the video to see how
(36:45):
that person interacts. But I think it's only going to
grow more. I I think that we will see more shows. We'll probably see
more networks. And I think that it's it's a great opportunity
for people who are not celebrities to have
a platform to highlight their knowledge, to
show that they can interview somebody else as a guest on a show.
(37:08):
I I think that we're gonna see more and more of that. And so
it's only going to elevate more. Podcasts are not they're not
gonna go anywhere. They will see more growth. We will see more
sponsors. I think that people are understanding that it doesn't
have to be a huge show, again, because of that
specialization of you can reach exactly who you want
(37:30):
to. And so people are going to sponsor that type of a thing
versus, you know, a Super Bowl ad for a million dollars for two
seconds. And you're reaching a lot of people, but are they your people?
And podcasts allow you to reach your people. And so I think it's going
to grow across the board with more shows. People are going to
understand that you need to be a guest, so we'll see more guests, more pitches
(37:54):
for better or for worse, and we'll see more sponsors.
Gotcha. And people listen to this episode, they're wondering where can they find you online
to learn more about what you do and podcast PR in general? Thank you.
My website is themlgcollective.com. You can
find me on Instagram at Michelle Glogovac. You can
also purchase my book anywhere you purchase books. How to Get on
(38:16):
Podcasts is available. There's an audiobook. So if you love listening to
me, you can listen to me read the book to you as well. And my
show, My Simplified Life, is everywhere you listen to podcasts.
And any final thoughts for listeners? Put yourself out
there. You know? I think that podcasts allow us to get to know
people that we wouldn't otherwise hear from. And so that's why
(38:39):
it's really important to be a guest, to, you know,
let people know that you are out there, you know what you're doing, to share
your story. And so don't be afraid to
put yourself out there as a guest and and let hosts know that
you appreciate what they do as well because they're connecting you with people
that you might never have heard of or have gotten to meet on the street
(39:01):
or in the coffee shop unless they say nice shirt.
Fair enough. Well, thank you, Michelle, for joining Digital Coffee Marketing Brew and
sharing your knowledge on podcast PR versus traditional PR.
You so much for having me, Brett. And thank you for listening. As always,
please subscribe to this podcast on all your favorite podcasting. Absolutely, a five star review.
It will just help with the rankings. Let me know how I am doing. And
(39:24):
join me next week as I talk to another great thought leader in the PR
marketing industry. Alright, guys. Stay safe. Get to understanding podcasts and podcast
PR if you have never heard it before. And see you next week.
Later.
I love that podcasts allow us to listen to stories we wouldn't otherwise
(00:03):
hear, to build empathy, to gain knowledge, to
since there's so many different types of podcasts, you can be
entertained, you can laugh, you can cry, you can learn how to build a business.
With a podcast, it's a lot of
hobbyists. You know, this is a side hustle. This is something that
people are doing on the side of their full time job, so you
(00:26):
have to practice a lot more patience. And when a host brings on
a guest, that trust is extended to the guest.
And so a listener is going to say, well, you know, if Brett had him
on the show, then they must know what they're talking about because Brett Brett's not
gonna bring on someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. And I want to
also remind people that, you know, size is not what you should be looking
(00:48):
at. You need to look at the value of who's listening
because
That's good. And welcome to a new episode
(01:10):
of Digital Coffee Marketing Brew. I'm your host,
Brett Deister. If you could please subscribe to this podcast and all your favorite podcasting
apps, leave a five star review. It really does help with the rankings, and let
me know how I am doing. But this week, we're gonna be talking about
well, we're gonna be talking about traditional v
PR versus podcasting PR. I know it's a very interesting
(01:32):
little little play on things, but I think it's gonna be a very interesting
episode because PR is PR. We always need to learn new things. But with me,
I have Michelle with me, and she is the podcast
matchmaker, a podcast publicist, and host of award winning
podcast, My Simplified Life. She works with entrepreneurs,
authors, and experts hone in on their story
(01:55):
abilities, grow their business, and elevate themselves
as a thought leader. Her first book, how to get
on podcast debuts in well, it did did debut in
January 2024. And Michelle is a wife, mom of two,
stepmom of two, and a fur mom as well. But
welcome, Michelle, Michelle. Thank you so much for having me, Brett. I'm
(02:16):
excited to be here. Yes. And the first question is, all my guest is, are
you a coffee or tea drinker? Coffee.
Tea maybe in the afternoon, in the winter, but, otherwise, it is coffee,
coffee, coffee. You have any, like, specifics on what
coffee do you like, or is it just kinda give me whatever is hot or
and or cold? I prefer flavored coffee. So right
(02:38):
now, since we're in fall and pumpkin spice is out, it is
pumpkin it's ground coffee, but it is flavored otherwise. Usually, it's
hazelnut for the non fall, but I will buy it at
Target in bulk to the point where I can drink my pumpkin
flavored coffee until May.
That's fair. That's fair. And I gave a brief summary of your expertise and your
(03:01):
listeners a little bit more about what you do.
Yes. So I my clients all get on
podcast to be interviewed around their expertise.
And, you know, I've seen a lot of agency owners who
say, you know, this is the best way to sell, to promote your book, but
I prefer to have my clients go on to share their story and their
(03:22):
knowledge. We know that at the end of every podcast, the host is
gonna say, where can people find you? Where can they buy their book? All of
that good stuff. So the whole purpose of an interview
is to share your knowledge, to share you know, if you have a book, what's
in the book? To share your story of how you got started in your business.
Why do you do what you do? And to really tackle it from that
(03:44):
angle and to, you know, give people something
that they didn't know about before, something that resonates with them.
I love that podcasts allow us to listen to stories we wouldn't otherwise
hear to build empathy, to gain knowledge,
to since there's so many different types of podcasts, you can be
entertained. You can laugh. You can cry. You can learn how to build a business.
(04:08):
You can do anything by listening to a podcast. And
so my job is to define what those
topics are for my clients and then to create media kits,
pitch them to podcasts that align with their message, their target
audience, and then help them repurpose that content
into marketing content so that it is not finished when
(04:30):
the recording stops. They can utilize their shows,
their interviews in all kinds of ways with quotes, with
graphics, and promoting it across a lot of platforms
instead of simply just the podcast as a podcast host does as
well. So how does the reach for
podcast PR compare to traditional PR? Because traditional PR, you have to go
(04:52):
to the journalist. You have to pitch your story. You have to hope
that the journalist will actually open the email. You have to hope that they actually
read the email. Like, there's a lot of hoping and doing a lot
of research. I mean, you have to do a lot of research for the podcast
as well, but a lot more research because you have to make sure that they
are still at the place that you are pitching it to. And
(05:13):
if they're not, then you kinda have to go, where did I go wrong?
So, like, what is the difference between reaches?
There's a lot of similarity in that you have to do your research. You have
to make sure the show is still being produced and is active.
You know, just as the the journalist there. But one of the big differences
is that news has a cycle where you're trying
(05:35):
to garner that attention quickly because there's always breaking
news. There's something else that's happening in the media. So how is it that
you fit in, and do you fit in within that
timeline? You know? And if we're not talking about breaking news, maybe you're looking at,
you know, I need to get on that holiday list that they have coming out.
Well, you need to be looking at that, like, six months in advance.
(05:57):
With a podcast, it's a lot of
hobbyists. You know, this is a side hustle. This is something that
people are doing on the side of their full time job. So you
have to practice a lot more patience. Nobody is sitting here
pining away waiting for that pitch because there's just no one
who wants to be a guest on my show. Everybody wants to be a
(06:19):
guest. And so you have to practice that patience, and that's why it's
so important to personalize the pitch, to create these speaking
topics that align with what the host is trying to put out
there, and then not following up within twenty four hours.
When you're looking at a journalist or a reporter, you're following
up quickly because you need to get that story out there.
(06:42):
When it's a podcast, you shouldn't be following up for maybe two to
three weeks, you know, if that, because
there's the full time job. Like I said, they're doing something where they're
not sitting here going, oh, what else can I get? I I need
that email. I need that pitch. Whereas a journalist is, they
are constantly getting new stories. You know, what is it going to be?
(07:04):
Another difference is in the pitch itself. A
pitch to a journalist is going to be concise. You have to get right
to the point. This is what we're talking about. This is it. Whereas a
podcast pitch is longer. Here are why we
relate to you and your show, and we've listened to it. And here's a two
or three sentence bio on the client, and then here are the speaking
(07:27):
topics. And here's where our client's been featured. So it's a lot
more here's everything that there is so that the
host does not have to leave the email unless they're choosing
to click on a hyperlink of the name to go to the website or the
podcast that they were most recently interviewed on
versus something that's very short and concise and gets right to the
(07:48):
point. So those are two of the big differences along with
you know, if you're going on TV and you're being interviewed for a couple
minutes, that's it. It's a couple minutes. A podcast is
anywhere from twenty to sixty minutes. So it's much longer
form of content, and then that'll also allows you
to pull more content from it to repurpose it versus if you
(08:11):
only got two minutes of airtime, that was it. You know? Did you
have one good quote in those two minutes versus having sixty
minutes of a whole lot of talking in which
things can be pulled from? So those are the big differences between
traditional PR and podcast PR.
(08:31):
And, I do like to mention that there is something called pod fade, which
basically is people do release
their podcast episodes, but then eventually don't release their
podcast episodes and eventually does die. So there is
a vast amount of that going on the podcasting industry
specifically, plus most don't actually go beyond their third
(08:53):
episode. Most do. So, yeah, so if you're if
you're on episode four, you beat out the majority of other podcast.
It's so sad, and yet yet that is, you know, the statistic,
of what it is. And some some
will be on forever. I'm on episode I think I oh, I just
released two forty five this week.
(09:17):
So it it's crazy, but you have to look and
see, you know, are they still active, active, and when was the most
active episode? Was it a month ago? And if it was
a month ago, was that month because they only release one per
month? You know, how consistent are they? So those are
definitely things that need to be looked at. And, I mean, what are the
(09:38):
unique advantages of podcast PR offer
building a personal connection with the audiences? Is it just is
it just basically, like, being, the audience being aware of
you now, or is it more than that? More than that because they get
to hear your voice. You were literally in their ear. You get
to share your story. You get to share your knowledge,
(10:00):
and there's also the trust factor. You know, people are
listening to podcasts that they trust. They show up
every week listening to that host, that episode, because
they enjoy it. They wanna hear more of what that host is putting out there.
And when a host brings on a guest, that trust is extended
to the guest. And so a listener is going to say, well, you know, if
(10:23):
Brett had him on the show, then they must know what they're talking about because
Brett Brett's not gonna bring on someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. So
that trust is automatically given to you instead
of a cold call where you're sending an email out saying, hey. Do
you wanna work with me? And you know nothing about me, and they're just words
on a screen. Somebody's listening now to you
(10:45):
telling what you know, telling the story of why you started
your business. You get to really be yourself, and they get
to know you by listening to this conversation. And so that
that's a really big deal. That's a gift in my
opinion. And that's why, you know, being a podcast guest
is is so worthwhile because you remove these
(11:07):
barriers, and you also have that trust extended to you from the
get go. And speaking of
costs, since everybody is very worried about how everything costs
these days, what is the cost between a podcast PR
campaign and traditional PR campaign? A
podcast campaign is going to be less expensive than
(11:29):
traditional, and the results are going to be better with a
podcast, tour per
se, because, you know, we we can't guarantee anything. Anyone who
says either traditional or podcast, I guarantee
this, don't do it because nobody can guarantee. I can't
guarantee that, you know, well, I've been on Brett's show, so I know he's going
(11:51):
to take my pitch for this next guest. I can't guarantee that
because I'm not the host of this show. So don't look
for a guarantee because that's not okay.
When we look at podcasts, what I say is I will guarantee
you a certain amount of interviews. And so that means
that we're going to work as hard as we can and as hard as possible
(12:15):
to secure those interviews. We don't
we don't guarantee size audience sizes, but we will give you all of
the stats behind the show that we have access to.
And I want to also remind people that, you know, size is not
what you should be looking at. You need to look at the value of
who's listening. Because if you come on to a show
(12:38):
where your job is all about marketing and we're talking about marketing
and maybe there's 500 listeners, that's perfect
because we want to talk to the marketers versus if you just went on a
show that was aimed at auto mechanics and there were a million
mechanics that were listening that don't care about marketing, then what is
the point? You'd rather get to targeted 500 listeners
(13:01):
versus a million who just aren't interested. So those are things to
all, you know, pay attention to as well. And a podcast, you
you get that targeted audience versus traditional media. You
might have somewhat of a target depending on, you know, are you going to a
certain magazine that focuses on your audience,
maybe, or are you on a TV show that you don't know who's watching? And
(13:23):
it could be a lot of different people that the target audience is not
there. So be prepared also to invest, you know,
anywhere from podcasts. There are agencies that might charge
500 to 5,000 a month. A PR company
for traditional PR is going to be multiple thousands,
5, 10, 15, up to a hundred thousand a month. So there are
(13:46):
big differences. I wish I was charging a hundred thousand a month.
I wouldn't have to work so hard. We all
thought we all wish we were charging a hundred thousand a month. But,
I mean, it is true that it's significantly
less money to actually do podcast because, well,
it's not as built up. Plus, you also do get that niche because
(14:10):
and I think what PR people and marketers traditionally think is that
the bigger the number, the more awareness they get. But then it's not
the right awareness because yeah. Just because
your industry like, for example, marketing. Marketing is not as popular
as, say, like, gaming is. Like, gaming in general is gonna have a bigger
audience because you have young and old gamers. With marketing, you have a
(14:32):
very specific, smaller, specific group
because there's only a certain amount of marketers because there's only a certain amount of
businesses. And so I think for me, a lot of
PR marketers get it wrong saying that we should have this big audience and be
like, no. You you have the right audience.
So in what ways do p podcast PR
(14:54):
help establish thought leadership more effective way than traditional
PR? More time to really share
your knowledge, to share what you've learned, what you do, how you
do it, why you do it, then, you know, if if you were going
on a two minute TV interview where you don't
get to share all of this. You get a big stage, but is
(15:17):
it really going to promote what you know, who you are,
and all of that? This is and this is also where you get to reach
other people. You don't know who's listening. You have no idea who
could be listening to this podcast right now, and it could be the
one person who goes, oh, yes. I not only wanna work with you. Maybe you
need to write a book. Maybe you need to do a TED talk. Maybe you
(15:39):
need to have your own show. There could be somebody listening who is
going to help elevate you to that next level. And the more
people you reach out to and they get to hear
all of your knowledge, then that promotes you as the thought leader.
This is putting yourself out there, and that's why it's so important to
share these interviews, to repurpose them so that people
(16:01):
can see and hear from you in all of these different ways
of yeah. You know what? Michelle knows what she's talking about because she keeps appearing
on these podcasts, and she's talking about podcast interviews. And
so that then presents you and
elevates you as the thought leader, as the expert in
whatever industry niche that you are in because you keep
(16:22):
showing up, you keep talking about it, and people hear that
repetition in a good way. Not in a, oh, boy. She's talking about it
again. Here we go. But, yeah, she's been invited on this show because
she knows what she's talking about because she is talking about podcast
interviews. And then just moving on to content
wise because, I mean, traditional PR does have its
(16:44):
place, but I feel like with podcast PR, you have
you can have a blog post about your episode. You can have the audio, the
video, the shorts, the audiograms. Like, it
seems like there's a longer tail of content that you could
repurpose through PR podcast PR than actual
traditional PR. Absolutely. You know, if
(17:06):
you're getting on TV and you've got that two minute clip, then there you go.
There's your two minute clip, and you got probably one quote. Whereas
if you're on a podcast, you do have, some cases, video.
You always have the audio. That's going to live forever on all
of the the podcast platforms. There are show notes that you
can put into a blog post. There are, you know, tweets that you can
(17:28):
do on x. You can put a thread on. You can do it on Instagram.
You can do a story. You can do a reel. You can do a post.
You know, right there, there's three different pieces of content. Then you can use
Facebook. Use Pinterest. There's so many different ways. I
also create a Spotify playlist for all of my clients to put
all of your shows, your interviews in one spot. That one
(17:49):
playlist can then be embedded on your website, on your press page.
It can be put onto your LinkedIn, under your media, for your current
job. There's so many different ways that you can repurpose
content. You know, we pull a transcript for every
client interview, and then we highlight the quotes of this
was a really good thing you said you should make it into a quote graphic.
(18:11):
You know, stop quoting famous people or celebrities, quote yourself.
So that way people see that you are the thought leader, and you're also
thanking the host because you're promoting their podcast by
mentioning them and giving them a plug as well. So
it's a it's a double whammy of promoting yourself in a non
sleazy way while also thanking your host for having you
(18:34):
and hopefully bringing them more listeners as well. And what metrics should
we be using? Now I do know as a podcaster myself,
podcasting metrics aren't the best. I do think they need to
change. I think downloads is a very simplistic
way of gauging the how invested the
audience is. I do think time spent is probably a better metric,
(18:57):
but we're we're still here. So I'll just let I'll let the metric people try
to figure that out. But, I mean, what metrics should they be using?
We look across the board at, you know, how many reviews do they have on
Apple? Do they have some on Spotify? We also then look at,
I have Podchaser, so I can see the approximate downloads,
listens. But unless you pay for that, you don't get to see that. You can
(19:19):
look at listen notes, which I I I love
and hate listen notes because I think that, you know, I'm in the top 2%.
Well, it's not that hard to get in the top 2% because as long as
you're consistent, you're showing up, and you're promote you're doing an episode, then you
basically get in that top 5% of podcast because, like
you said, most aren't making it past the third episode. The
(19:41):
other thing we look at is social media. You know, do they have a following
on Instagram? And if they have 10,000 followers, let's look
at a post because out of 10,000 followers, only three people are liking their
posts. So maybe they bought those followers. You know, now you can
buy reviews. I I get Apple Podcast promoters in
my LinkedIn stuff all day long. So everything
(20:03):
can be bought now, which is unfortunate, and that's why we look
at all of the different platforms to see, is it
consistent? You know, if a show has a thousand
reviews, well, how many followers do they have on Instagram? And does
that correlate to each other? So we look at everything to kind
of get a bigger picture of, is this legit? Isn't
(20:25):
it, you know, and then simply reading the description. I
think people forget to just read the description of the show to see who is
the target audience and look at that. Don't get so hung up
on numbers. You know, this would also come into
play if someone asks you to pay to be a guest on their
show because I have found that those who want
(20:47):
money, and I do not pay, do not pay to be a podcast
guest, do not pay for traditional PR placement.
That's advertising either way. And if a podcast host
says, well, you know, I've got a million downloads, and I I do this, do
that, go to their YouTube. Do they actually have subscribers there? And it will
tell you how many views they get. These are public things that you can look
(21:09):
at. So it takes some extra work, some due diligence, but
there are certain numbers that you can look at and identify and get a good
feel for. Is this truly accurate or not? Yeah.
The bane of my existence is podcast promoters. I swear I get so I got,
like, five of them a day, and it's very, very annoying. I never
respond to them. I never follow them, and I never will
(21:32):
because I do not want that headache. Yeah. It's
them. And do you wanna grow your Instagram by 10,000 followers?
Yeah. Like, all of that, I'm like, stop it. Or on YouTube or
Rumble, it's the same thing. Do you wanna grow this? I see you get less
things. I'm like, yeah. I'm growing my channel, dude. Like, it doesn't happen
overnight. Yeah. Organic growth is is much better
(21:54):
than purchasing followers. Yeah. So
yeah. Look at the podcaster. Usually, most podcasters will never
make you pay or any of that. I don't do it, and we
usually never use, like, the spam stuff because we all know that
it hurts in the long run. Yeah. And if if they do
want you to pay and you're willing to pay despite
(22:16):
being advised not to pay, you know, pay attention also. Are they
letting their audience know that this guest has paid to be on
their show? Because there are rules and regulations per the government
that they have to let the audience know that this is a
paid guest, just like with advertising on
TV because it is advertising. So, you know, we
(22:39):
we need this is it's the the wild, wild west is podcast where
it's great that we have so much flexibility, but at the same time,
some people are abusing it. And at some point, there will be
crackdowns, you know, for that type of a thing. So if
you're paying, pay attention to what is the host saying, and
are they disclosing it? Unfortunately, it's always a
(23:01):
smaller group that ruins it for everybody else.
But I'm speaking about how how does the targeting
capability of PR podcasts compare to traditional PR
methods? You can get much deeper in who you're
targeting. You know, I work with a lot of authors, so we
look at what is your book about, who is going to read your book. Now
(23:23):
what types of podcasts are they listening to? You know, are the Beach
Reads all a bunch of moms that are listening? Then let's target the mom
podcast. You can get much deeper, much more specific when
it comes to podcasts versus traditional
PR. You know, there are going to be places and
blogs and, magazines and digital outlets that you
(23:45):
can target a more specific audience, but
podcast can truly dig down. I the call I was
on just before this, we were talking about a romantacy podcast where
they literally only talk to romance,
authors. So you get very targeted. Those are the people who are listening.
They they want to hear the those authors because those are the books they're
(24:08):
reading. You can't do that really on TV. So
it becomes much more specific, and that's a great thing because you
get to reach the audience that you want to. And
what do you think what types of businesses or individuals benefit from
podcast PR? Because I always say not everybody should
(24:28):
start a podcast, but everybody should be a guest.
I agree, because there's a lot of reasons why not everybody should start one.
One of them is you have to be consistent. You have to show up.
With being a podcast guest, you do need to show up by all means.
You need to, you know, be professional. You need to have your setup for your
audio and your video. But I agree that everybody can
(24:51):
benefit from being a podcast guest because we all have a story to share.
We all have some sort of a pivot that's brought us to where we are.
We all have a reason why we do what we do. Why do
you wake up in the morning excited to do your job? Why did
you write the book that you wrote? What parts of you are in
that book? What is it about your team that
(25:14):
they show up every day for work? You know, what type of clients
are you working with? What type of knowledge do you have? Do
you do you have tips that you can share with somebody about what you
do for work that you can then help someone else do
it too? You're not gonna put yourself out of a job. You're simply sharing
that knowledge. And somebody who listens to a podcast where you're
(25:36):
sharing what you do and how you do it, they're gonna go, oh, that
was great that Michelle shared how to pitch a podcast, and
she did that for free. So imagine then what's going to happen when
you work with me and you pay me to do this for you, how
worthwhile that will be. It's a way to allow people to get to
know you, and yet it's also a comfortable, relaxed setting because
(25:59):
it's just a conversation between two people that everyone gets to
eavesdrop on. So for people who are, you know, more introverted
and don't wanna take the stage, this is a great way to simply have a
one on one conversation with another human being, be
yourself, show up, and yet you're going to also reach
hundreds, thousands, potentially millions of people by doing
(26:21):
podcast interviews. And if you have a good podcast host, it won't even
feel like it's like an interview because it will really be a good
conversation. So always find a good podcast host because they will
guide you as opposed to their learning podcast
host. I'll just say that they're learning how to do it. Like, just find that
one that will help you guide through because we are really guides to this
(26:43):
interview style. Exactly. Yes. And, you you know,
I think a good host is going to be able to read the body
language, to hear the voice of, oh, you know what? This person's nervous,
so let me talk about this instead. Or maybe,
you know, there's another question that I can ask. And that's why it's so important
for both parts to do their homework, you know, to do their research
(27:06):
on who they're interviewing and for the guests to do
their research on who they're being interviewed by. So that way you get
a more comfortable feeling when you show up versus, you know, meeting someone in the
coffee line and saying, hey. Nice shirt. That's
it. You don't know the person. But if you do some
stalking ahead of time, then at least you know that you can have a a
(27:28):
question or two in your back pocket. I always appreciate someone saying
nice shirt, but, I mean, if you see me, more power to you. If you
dealt to me, I'll be like, oh, thank you.
Anyways, in what ways can the podcast
PR be integrated with a comprehensive strategy with traditional? Because I feel like
these can two be very there there can be a lot of symmetry
(27:51):
between them because of the different natures of them.
Can be. And I think that both is is a great strategy.
You know? It it's just that you need to make sure that whoever's pitching you
understands the differences because it can't be the same
type of pitch, the same format for both of them. So
it does take more work and effort on the part of
(28:13):
the publicist. I've worked with PR companies, agencies
where they've brought me in to do the podcast part because it
is so different. And, you know, that's very helpful for the
client to get two experts who know what to do
and how to do it and, you know, team up, but at the same time,
go our separate ways and get the job done. So definitely
(28:36):
integrate both. You know, we would have weekly team meetings of,
okay. Where are you and and did this angle work? You know, there's this breaking
news that might be applicable to you. But, again, podcasting
is much more long term. So we're not going to
we might get a yes on a pitch, and then the calendar link isn't open
(28:57):
for two more months. And then you record, and it's another month before it comes
out. So breaking news is not really the way
to go for podcasts unless you are getting on one of those breaking news podcasts
where they are doing something every single day. So it's a much
longer game. The same can be said for traditional PR. You
might not get a placement for six months to a year. But at least with
(29:19):
a podcast, you're getting a yes. You're getting a calendar link much sooner.
It's just that nobody can guarantee when this is all going to happen.
It's true. I mean, I a lot of times, it's months ahead
for what I'm actually doing because, I mean, you get a lot of guests. You
prerecord all this stuff. So and plus mine's not timely at
all. I mean, we talk about marketing and PR, and, yes, there's some new
(29:43):
trends, but they're not traditional marketing and traditional PR
is always gonna be the same. There's nothing different about it. Yeah.
And some like to you know, I love to batch record. I love to be
able to get ahead, especially if the summer months are coming or, you know, the
holidays are around the corner. Right now, I'm into the October, and
we're recording this in the September. So, you know,
(30:04):
if you have something that needs to come out, October 1
for my show, you're too late because it's already done. So you have to
plan ahead. And you could also ask the host if they
can move it up too, because a lot of them will be like, okay. That's
fine. I can rearrange things, but don't expect and I've
had some guests be like, oh, so when is it coming up? And be like,
(30:25):
I told you it's been several months. Let the process work out. I
will let you know when it it gets released. Don't badger me because then you're
gonna make me mad. Right. And then it'll never come out.
Imagine that, because there's that too. It could be
that, you know, and that's on both ends, traditionally and podcasts that something
happens and maybe a show stops airing and there goes
(30:47):
that interview. You know, it it could be that breaking news happened and
there went your interview over there. So, yeah, it can
happen. And, I mean, can you use the role
of AI within podcast PR? I mean, we're gonna have to talk about it
because everybody's using AI. I will admit that I do use
AI to help me automate a lot of this stuff. Can you use that for
(31:09):
research and maybe either our first draft pitch or to help
you clarify pitches? Is that does that
work? I've tested it. I've I've told AI
to pitch myself to my own show,
and I was surprised at what it regurgitated because it said that I
had been interviewed places that I've never been interviewed.
(31:31):
So you and and AI tells you, you know, fact check it. So
there are some errors. I would say don't use it because you need
to personalize it. You need to listen.
The times when I do use it might be if I need a bio
changed for a client because they've given it to me in first person, and I
want it changed to third person. If I have topic
(31:54):
ideas that I'm not feeling as creative with my
words than to throw in what I already have created
and ask it to, you know, make it sound more professional or be more
creative or do something to that extent, then I will use
it. But I I rarely copy and paste
it word for word. I change it even then some more. So for me, it's
(32:16):
more of a brainstorming. What do I have? I love the you know,
to use it as a process. I do use it for my show, like, for
show notes, because there's already a format. Just pull,
you know, things together, that type of a thing. But, again, the
content's already created. It's just, you know, formatting
it in a in a nicer way. So that's when I would use it,
(32:39):
but not to write a pitch. I know there are agencies who are using it
for pitch writing, and I cringe be because I've tested it, and I I don't
like it. Eventually. But right now, yes.
Check all your stuff, reread it over, change it minorly if you
do. I do think they are getting better, but I don't think they're there yet.
Yeah. I I still think there's a ways to go. And
(33:02):
what are some of the challenges that podcast PR
may face that traditional PR doesn't face at all?
Oh, that's a good question. You
know, with podcasts, we're it's changing. It's always because it
is even though it's been around for over two decades, it's
still new. It's still, you know, question people question,
(33:25):
oh, well, is it going away? Is it growing? And, you know, with
the pandemic, we saw podcasts grow immensely
of new shows coming on, but then you also saw shows fall off
because we were all stuck at home and people who had a studio didn't know
how to record at home. And then you saw people who have kids who
went, oh, now I can't record because there's too much noise. We've got homeschooling
(33:47):
and all of that. So not knowing what the future is
going to hold, you don't know. I think it's going to continue to
grow. I think that we see, you know, Spotify.
We see iHeart. We see more deals continue to be done
with celebrity hosts. We see more true crime
popping up. It's growing. I don't think it's going anywhere.
(34:11):
So in that sense, I think that a podcast publicist is in a great
spot. We do see more of the automation, the AI, you know,
more of these, websites where you can
just sign up and be a guest, and that's it. But are
those shows going to stick around too? So I think it's important
to continue that personalized touch, for a podcast
(34:33):
publicist to make sure that that doesn't go away,
and and for those to be replaced per se.
It is true. Unfortunately, a lot of times, it changes a little too quickly where
Google just decides to take away things and move things around.
And from Google if people don't know, from Google Podcast
to YouTube Music, that's been, like, the biggest headache is Google
(34:55):
decides to make something and then do away with it, then you have to pivot
because it's Google. Right. So don't put all your eggs in one
basket. This is true. But, yeah, it is it is changing.
Spotify added comments. So if you wanna comment on this podcast,
be be sure to do it. They also added video to it so you
can now upload videos. So there's a lot of things changing. We are pushing into
(35:17):
video a little bit more, which for better than worst,
that's just how it is. I mean, you just kinda have to roll with the
punches or figure out how to do a better job with just your audio if
you want to. So, I mean,
where do, where do you think, like we're going with
podcast, PR or podcast in general? Are we going to see more
(35:39):
podcasts, more niching going on? Because I mean, the future is
still up in the air. It is growing. I mean, I've seen all the numbers.
The numbers always say it's growing. It's not growing as fast as it was during
the pandemic, but that's because it's a different we're back into the
somewhat normal settings where people go out and have jobs. So
where is the future going? Is it gonna be more video
(36:00):
centric podcast and less about audio,
or is audio still gonna play a really big role on it? I think audio
is still gonna play a really big role. I think that not everybody's pivoting
to video, because no you know, who's
sitting down and has time to watch? It's it's the same thing with television. You
know? Are you watching all of your shows? Are you streaming them?
(36:22):
You know, there there's a difference in all of that. So I think the audio
is still going to be extremely relevant. It's not going
anywhere. You will see more videos. And if you wanna watch the
videos and watch the interview, then, you know, that's great. Or maybe you wanna match
the face to the voice, then you can go and and look at even
the episode art if you want to or the video to see how
(36:45):
that person interacts. But I think it's only going to
grow more. I I think that we will see more shows. We'll probably see
more networks. And I think that it's it's a great opportunity
for people who are not celebrities to have
a platform to highlight their knowledge, to
show that they can interview somebody else as a guest on a show.
(37:08):
I I think that we're gonna see more and more of that. And so
it's only going to elevate more. Podcasts are not they're not
gonna go anywhere. They will see more growth. We will see more
sponsors. I think that people are understanding that it doesn't
have to be a huge show, again, because of that
specialization of you can reach exactly who you want
(37:30):
to. And so people are going to sponsor that type of a thing
versus, you know, a Super Bowl ad for a million dollars for two
seconds. And you're reaching a lot of people, but are they your people?
And podcasts allow you to reach your people. And so I think it's going
to grow across the board with more shows. People are going to
understand that you need to be a guest, so we'll see more guests, more pitches
(37:54):
for better or for worse, and we'll see more sponsors.
Gotcha. And people listen to this episode, they're wondering where can they find you online
to learn more about what you do and podcast PR in general? Thank you.
My website is themlgcollective.com. You can
find me on Instagram at Michelle Glogovac. You can
also purchase my book anywhere you purchase books. How to Get on
(38:16):
Podcasts is available. There's an audiobook. So if you love listening to
me, you can listen to me read the book to you as well. And my
show, My Simplified Life, is everywhere you listen to podcasts.
And any final thoughts for listeners? Put yourself out
there. You know? I think that podcasts allow us to get to know
people that we wouldn't otherwise hear from. And so that's why
(38:39):
it's really important to be a guest, to, you know,
let people know that you are out there, you know what you're doing, to share
your story. And so don't be afraid to
put yourself out there as a guest and and let hosts know that
you appreciate what they do as well because they're connecting you with people
that you might never have heard of or have gotten to meet on the street
(39:01):
or in the coffee shop unless they say nice shirt.
Fair enough. Well, thank you, Michelle, for joining Digital Coffee Marketing Brew and
sharing your knowledge on podcast PR versus traditional PR.
You so much for having me, Brett. And thank you for listening. As always,
please subscribe to this podcast on all your favorite podcasting. Absolutely, a five star review.
It will just help with the rankings. Let me know how I am doing. And
(39:24):
join me next week as I talk to another great thought leader in the PR
marketing industry. Alright, guys. Stay safe. Get to understanding podcasts and podcast
PR if you have never heard it before. And see you next week.
Later.
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