March 26, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode of Digital Coffee Marketing Brew, host Brett Geiser chats with Caroline Crawford, a seasoned marketer and communications expert with 13 years of experience. They discuss strategies for building an effective marketing team on a scrappy budget, emphasizing the importance of being adaptable, organized, and leveraging tools like AI. Caroline shares insights on creating a strategic plan, repurposing content, and making smart hiring decisions between full-time and contract roles. She also offers advice on avoiding common pitfalls, enhancing team communication, and the power of saying 'no' or 'not right now.'
☕ Ready to Brew a Successful Marketing Team? 🌟
✅ Dive into the latest episode of Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew with Brett Deister and special guest Caroline Crawford.
✅ In this episode, they unravel the secrets of building an efficient marketing team on a scrappy budget.
✅ From leveraging AI to the art of saying "not right now," you'll find actionable insights to propel your marketing efforts.
✅ Tune in for strategies that turn challenges into success stories and learn how a clear plan can be your team's superpower. Don't miss it!
3 Fun Facts
- Caroline, the guest, recently stopped drinking coffee and is trying to switch to matcha, although it hasn't been as satisfying as coffee for her.
- Brett, the host, prefers more expensive, high-quality coffee and considers Starbucks only as a last resort when he's unfamiliar with the area.
- Caroline started her company, Cultivate Communications, after observing a gap in how businesses view marketing compared to the support they receive, which inspired her to bridge that gap.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caroline Crawford (00:00):
I think AI can be really helpful to
(00:02):
give the marketers a leg up.
So I use ai for instance, if I'm like,okay, I've got ideas like my heart, my
biggest challenge or what takes me thelongest is not the ideas, but it's how to
piece it together to where it makes sensefor everyone else but me kind of thing.
Right?
Brett (00:33):
Mm, that's good.
And welcome to a new episode ofDigital Coffee Marketing Brew.
I'm your host, Brett Geiser.
Could please subscribe to this podcaston all your favorite podcasting apps.
Leave a five star view reallydoes help with the rankings.
And now you can leave acomment on Spotify because.
Why not?
We love comments.
Anyways, I have with me Caroline, and sheis a business leader and with aligning
(00:58):
marketing initiatives effectively toachieve overarching business goals.
She is a seasoned marketer andcommunication expert with a 13 year
successful track record on blendingthe vision, the visionary with.
Just your business practicesand your sales goals.
But this week as well, we're gonnabe talking about building a market
team on a scrappy budget becausewe're all on that plane ride of
(01:22):
can you cut the marketing budget?
Can you be as lean as possible?
But welcome to the show, Caroline.
Caroline Crawford (01:27):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Brett (01:30):
Yes.
The first question is, all my guestis, are you a coffee or tea drinker?
Caroline Crawford (01:34):
Ooh, I just stopped drinking coffee a couple
months ago, so I wa I think at heartI am, I'm not a tea person very
much, but I've now stopped it all.
Brett (01:47):
Stopped it all.
So is it just like straightwater and that's all you do?
Mostly
Caroline Crawford (01:50):
water.
All.
I've, now, I'm trying toget on the matcha train.
It's not working as well as coffee, but.
Brett (01:59):
Fair enough.
I'm an old drinking person because Sure.
I still love coffee, buthas be a specific coffee.
Caroline Crawford (02:08):
Yeah.
What?
What's the specific coffee?
Brett (02:11):
I usually go for the more expensive ones.
'cause they're actually better.
Yeah.
If I have to, I'll go to Starbucks,but it's not never my first choice.
It's always my.
There's one, I don't know the area I'm inand there's no other coffee shops around.
Caroline Crawford (02:24):
Perfect.
Love that.
Brett (02:27):
Anyways, I gave a brief summary of your expertise.
Can you give our listeners alittle bit more about what you do?
Caroline Crawford (02:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've been in marketingcommunications for 13 years.
Like you said, I, throughoutmy career, I just.
Always had a very heavy hand in kindof all the things with marketing, just
and working with a lot of companiesthat had a very dynamic marketing team.
So they didn't have, it wasn't multipledepartments within the marketing team.
(02:51):
It was a lot of the times myself,maybe one or two other people, and.
The size of the companydid not match that.
So it was very interesting background.
But about three and a half years ago,actually, I think before, even before
that, while I was still in-house, Istarted to recognize the patterns and
(03:12):
look at the patterns I was experiencingin my career around marketing, the way
businesses viewed marketing, treatedmarketing and also the experiences I was
having in-house as an in-house marketer.
From outside marketers and that'sessentially what formed Cultivate.
I really saw this gap that existedbetween the way business leaders
(03:34):
viewed marketing, but also the waythat marketing support was delivered.
And so that's, I.
What I'm now out here doing.
And so ultimately, cultivatecommunications specializes in developing
and optimizing marketing functionsby aligning sales, marketing and
brand to create effective strategiesand create and increase revenue,
(03:56):
increase efficiencies across the team,and then ultimately grow the brand.
Brett (04:01):
All right, so what are some fundamental skills should.
The leader of a scraping marketing teamor the market team should possess to
ensure efficiency and effectiveness.
Because we're all in that.
Can you, and as always, businesses alwayscut the marketing budget first, so how
do you become efficient and effective?
Caroline Crawford (04:22):
Yeah, I think one, first things first, be adaptable.
'cause when you are in an environmentthat is needing to be scrappy.
You have to design everything ina way, in the way you operate.
To be adaptable, and nimbleas best as you possibly can.
That said, you do have to create structurein your marketing system, and I look at
(04:46):
marketing from all angles, everythingunder the marketing umbrella, umbrella.
So the easiest way to do to workwith limited resources and be
scrappy is to see how it allconnect connects together, right?
And what that looks like is developingmarketing strategies where you can
repurpose things, where content can workfor one channel and on multiple channels.
(05:11):
Putting, identifyingand isolating sometimes.
Pieces of your marketing puzzle thatare gonna take more time, effort,
energy, money, whatever that lookslike, and using that to fuel other
pieces of your marketing channel.
So that, those are just acouple ways to do that, but
ultimately structure, having your.
Team in place, being really aware ofwhat the priorities are and then saying
(05:35):
back to the business leaders, especiallyif you're the marketing team working
with business leaders that may makemarketing a little bit more challenging
for whatever reason, they may notunderstand what goes on behind the scenes.
It's really important for you to say,we have all these other priorities.
These are the processesthat we have in place, and.
You keep throwing curve balls at us.
(05:57):
So we need to either go back and put focusfor you on what's needed for marketing.
And that way we can structure ourteam a little bit better or we need
to completely reprioritize some thingsor operate a little bit differently.
Brett (06:12):
And on the content side, is it more focusing on the
evergreen content because that can.
Be either repurposed or refresheda little bit more than just the
seasonal or just the one-offs,because I feel like budgets are kinda
like, okay, what can I actually do?
And Evergreen is usually the one that'sthe easiest to repurpose and use.
(06:35):
Longer than anything else.
Caroline Crawford (06:37):
Yeah, you could look at it that way.
I see any content that's created honestlyas an opportunity to potentially repurpose
in some shape or form, as long as it'sstill relevant to the brand and what
the messaging is and things like that.
But ultimately, when you're creatingcontent, even older campaigns
and seasonal campaigns, there'susually a core message there.
(06:58):
That can then be repurposed.
Obviously, if it's a seasonal campaign,you did a winter campaign, let's
say, and then you're now in summer,some things have to be updated.
But I think the Evergreen content isgreat because you can squeeze a lot of
juice out of one particular Evergreencontent, and it's just a matter of
(07:20):
finding fresh ideas from that same thing.
But I think it doesn't really,to me, it doesn't really.
It doesn't have to be eitheror Evergreen or campaign.
I think that's where the strategicplanning comes into play and
the structure comes into play.
Because if you know what's ahead, you canunderstand how you can create content.
(07:41):
So if you're planning a marketingstrategy where you are, again, let's
say you're focused on an evergreencampaign about how to create, how
to maximize your marketing team.
Whatever.
What if you have a scrappymarketing team, right?
That's an, that can standalone as an evergreen content.
But let's say, okay, December's comingup, so how to then you can create
(08:05):
additional content, leveraging thefirst evergreen content that says,
okay, how do you maximize your team?
During vacation, heavyvacation schedules or whatever.
I'm just coming up with some randomexamples, but there's ways to do that,
and then even by vice versa, if youcreated the winter thing first, I.
You can then generalizeit to make it evergreen.
(08:28):
So I think that there's, it's moreso what is the core message you're
trying to convey and what's the corevalue you're trying to get out there?
And then I think you can get creative withall the different ways to go about it.
Brett (08:40):
And how do you identify and leverage the unique
competitive advantages of a.
Small marketing budget or a toneddown marketing budget depending on
what's the size of your business.
And is that also leveraging more ai?
Because you're a small marketing team, AIis prevalent and it's a little bit easier
to use given that you have a small budget.
Caroline Crawford (09:01):
Yeah.
I think AI can be really helpfulto give the marketers a leg up.
So I use ai for instance, if I'm like,okay, I've got ideas like my heart, my
biggest challenge or what takes me thelongest is not the ideas, but it's how to.
Piece it together to where itmakes sense for everyone else
but me kind of thing, right?
(09:22):
And so AI can be really helpful with that.
AI can also present different ideas.
It can lay out a strategy, itcan organize thoughts in term.
And then of course there's alwaysarguments about whether or not AI
should be used for generating content.
I err on the side of best.
You don't, if not, you vet it through.
I think in terms of the competitiveadvantages, the scrappier, the team
(09:46):
every, yes, it's hard on the marketers,but I think if you set up the right
structure, if you really optimize itcorrectly, the scrappier the team, the
more connected they have to be to survive.
So they have to serve.
They have to be so connectedto the business leaders.
They have to be so awareof what's going on.
They have to.
(10:06):
Become a well-oiled machine becausethey don't have room for error.
They don't have a high margin ofjust letting things fall to the
wayside or things getting overlooked.
They have to have, that's whereagain, you optimize your team.
It doesn't matter the sizeof your team, you can op.
I've operated with one or two people.
(10:27):
I've operated with just myselfmanaging a very large team.
Or, sorry, very large company.
I think it's just, I think that'swhere the competitive advantage
could be is because if you connect.
The greatest brands, the reason theyare getting so much attention, there's
multiple reasons to be fair, but a hugechunk of the reason if you really analyze
(10:48):
it is they're showing up everywhere.
And that's a challenge, right?
Because you, if you are showing upeverywhere, it takes a lot of resources
to really go heavy on some things.
But if you refine your focus becauseyour team is scrappy, it makes you go.
Do perform at that channel verywell, and then you can scale up
from there and then get really smartwith how you scale up from there.
(11:12):
But if you're looking at what otherbrands that are doing that are essentially
everywhere, they're doing the same thingjust on across the board on every channel.
So they're just repurposinga bunch of different things.
So if you have that kind of mindset,obviously maybe at a smaller scale, I'm
not saying everyone should be everywhere.
I think that's where you start to getinto this groove where, okay, everything's
(11:34):
gonna be connected, and then let's get,let's determine what our baseline is.
Once we have that going, let'sintroduce another channel.
And then once we have that going, weintroduce another and then we just
keep growing and growing from there.
Brett (11:48):
And is this part kind of the part of importance of
creating like a clear marketinggoal, marketing targets and goals?
So you can like.
Make your team efficient in delegationbecause it's not, or yourself, because
like you said, you've done it by yourself.
Is it like that part of things?
Because if you have a plan, it's easierto effectively delegate you or your.
(12:10):
Teammates or people under you?
Caroline Crawford (12:12):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that's really the first stepbecause if you don't have that, then
you're just come basically identifyinglike, okay, here's an idea I have.
Let's execute it, and it starts, andthat keeps happening over and over.
So it starts to become very inefficient.
But if you're like, okay, this isour goal, these are our marketing
goals, these are our sales goals,these are our business goals, you
(12:33):
can then be more intentional withwhere you're putting your efforts.
That then lend itself better to youbeing able to plan ahead for things.
So when I'm creating strategies,I'm thinking ultimately,
what's the bigger vision goal?
What's our immediate short-term goal?
So if someone, if a company's'cause everyone wants more sales,
everyone wants more brand awareness.
(12:55):
But you do at some point, especially witha scrappy budget, have to prioritize.
So if let's just say sales is the firstbudget that's gonna end, or sales is the
first primary goal in the short term.
That's gonna indicate what andhow and where you're putting
your marketing efforts, right?
So it's if you're doing sales,but you're doing brand awareness
(13:17):
campaigns, there's a disconnect, right?
So that's how you startplanning accordingly.
But I think having that strategy upfrontis going to be, it takes away so much
of that guessing and that legwork.
So then as.
The process evolves.
You can come together as a team withthe lead the business leaders and say,
based on our goals, I don't think wehave the ability to, or I don't think
(13:41):
it's worth our effort right now to doa brand awareness campaign or, it's
helps this shiny object syndrome thatreally appears with marketing and
allows you to maintain that focus.
Brett (13:53):
The other side of it is, have you found some like cost
effective tools or resources forthat scrapping marketing team?
Because I feel like you're gonna needtools, but you gotta pick and choose which
tools will be effective for you have.
Which ones have you found to be themost cost effective for doing the job?
Caroline Crawford (14:12):
I think Clickup is like any project management tool.
You can really plan like those typesof like specific marketing tech tools,
CL like a pro, any project managementsystem where you can really see what's
ahead and pri easily prioritize.
That is the best way.
But I've done it in like GoogleSheets, I've planned it all out.
(14:33):
All you really need, it doesn'treally matter what the specific.
Tool you use as long as it, yourteam is, as long as it's easily
adoptable by your team, essentially.
But you have to have the abilityto plan ahead and see what's coming
down the pipeline for marketing andalso to give yourself the ability to
(14:54):
see everything from a big picture.
I like to plan my strategies,like when I'm actually doing
the specific planning of.
What's going out when, what arewe talking about and kind of
content outlines and all of that.
I like to know what is happening withevery channel and what's happening with
our offerings, what's happening withother parts of the company in case that
(15:16):
has to influence marketing in some way.
Brett (15:18):
And could it be, you said Clickup, but could it be like
notion or anything like that?
Because Yeah, any type of
Caroline Crawford (15:23):
project planning a tool for sure.
I personally would just use Clickup.
Brett (15:29):
That's fair.
The main thing from what I'm getting isbasically just being like super organized
and knowing like you have a checklisteach day and actually doing it because
the hard part of being organized is thatyou actually have to do it each day and.
Be organized.
I think that's the hardestpart for a lot of people.
Oh yeah, I got all this done.
Wait, I have to do thisevery week now or every day.
This is not, I'm not gonna like this.
Caroline Crawford (15:50):
I know.
That's the hardest part.
And I would say and I've struggled withthat too, and I would say it's less even
about here's the to-do list, check itoff, make sure you're maintaining it.
Like that alone is a job.
That's why project managersexist because it's hard.
I would say it's moreof the sentiment, right?
It's how can you.
(16:10):
Con strengthen connection andcommunication amongst your
team and awareness of what'shappening with the company.
How you do that is going to be dependenton the leader, dependent on the
team, because everyone's different.
Everyone organizes different,like some people prefer p post-it
notes as their to-do list, right?
Like it's not about thespecifics necessarily, however.
(16:34):
As the marketing leader, you should havea very clear visibility to see what's
happening with your team, to understandwhat's coming, what's gonna be thrown at
marketing and how that's all gonna impact.
And then you can use tools likeNotion, you can use even Miro.
Anything that can like.
(16:55):
Where you can map out, or at least have,okay, even if it's a whiteboard in your
office, this is what's gonna happenand this is what we need to plan for.
And so there is a little bit ofthat organization, but for the
people who are really not organized,it's, it really is how can you just
stay in tune to what's going on?
So that's.
(17:15):
Enhancing maybe some communicationswith your team that's asking questions
around what's going on with therest of the business that's, just
being proactive in some areas.
Just to even if you're not actingon it now, just to open your
mind up to these other activitiesthat may impact marketing.
Brett (17:36):
And how important is it to have diverse skill sets within your team?
Because sometimes we're like, whydoes everybody have the same skillset?
I need people to actually dodifferent things that I can't do.
So how do you pick and choose that?
Because it, it is difficultto figure out unless you know
somebody, their actual skill sets.
And I think that's the hardest partis like, what can you effectively do?
(17:57):
Don't tell me.
Show me.
Caroline Crawford (17:59):
Yeah.
That's a great question.
I think it's.
Depend it.
I will say this, like it's, there's asmall caveat in that what you focus on is
going to be a little bit different, right?
There are some companies where.
Design really isn't abig deal for them, right?
But then there are some companieswhere it is a really big deal.
(18:19):
So I think that's where some ofthe caveats come into play is how
specialized do people really need to be.
But I would say that, again, goingback if you do tend, if you do create
a strategy and a plan ahead of time,you have more of an ability to predict.
This is where I think.
It is gonna take us a long time.
(18:40):
So for instance, if you're planninga team around and you know you're
gonna need some automations,how savvy is your current team?
If you're working with abunch of generalists, for
instance, to try to do that?
Or is like maybe you're workingwith a bunch of copywriters.
Is anyone willing or able to get into thetech mindset and really build things out?
(19:03):
I think it's really understanding what.
If everyone's generally quote unquote,doing the same thing or have the
same skillset isolate what uniquequalities they have within your team.
And potentially diversify that team,diversify their responsibilities
in some shape or form.
(19:23):
No one should be doing the same things.
If you have a scrappy team,you can't afford to have
someone do two people doing.
I.
Same work, unless it's a heavy,significantly heavy workload.
But that usually, that actuallycreates more inefficiencies if you
have people doing the same thing.
So you've got two people creatingcontent for things that really can
(19:46):
be consolidated and have you be the,I'm gonna be the copy person, you're
gonna be the tech person, right?
So that's where you can diversify.
I think in terms of otherskill sets and actually hiring.
I, it really is a matter of howspecialized do they need to be, right?
If you want someone to really build veryadvanced email automations within, you
(20:09):
are not able to give them direction,then you need someone highly specialized.
But if you're able, if as a marketingleader or business leader, you're able
to provide a little bit more creativedirection or guidance for them to execute.
They don't really needto be that specialized.
They just need to be organized or be veryclear about what their responsibility
(20:30):
is and be willing to learn as they go.
Brett (20:34):
And just to go along with that, is it also the decision between
hiring full-time or contract because.
You may sometimes just need a reallyshort span of somebody, so you just
might wanna hire a contractor insteadof a full-time employee because
you may just want them to build outand that's all you need them to do.
So how do you distinguish betweenhiring the full-time person and just
(20:54):
hiring a freelancer slash contractor?
Caroline Crawford (20:56):
Yeah, I think that's also a great question.
I would say that more and more companiesare leaning towards contractors because.
Marketing, but like you saidat the beginning, marketing
budgets are the first to get cut.
The fir they get like the bottomof the barrel budget so often.
So I'm seeing a lot of companies nowusing virtual assistants, for instance,
(21:18):
and I think it goes back to theearlier point of you have to understand
what hole you're filling, right?
If you.
Don't know what help you need andsometimes you, we as marketers, because
there's so much, you're like, I justneed someone to help with everything.
I have no idea.
Especially when your budget's so small,you just need one extra, like an extra
(21:38):
set of hands and you can do it that way.
And you could try to find ageneralist and in that case they
should probably be full time.
But I think if you're doingsomething, if you're very clear
about what's getting done, you havemore freedom to say, you know what?
I think we just need this contractor forX amount of time in a month, and they're
(21:58):
gonna focus on these primary tasks.
But I think it's just a matter of, I thinkif you're looking to generalize people
more, it's gonna cost them more time.
So therefore they shouldbe more full-time.
And ideally you can hire in-house sothat they are completely dedicated
to you, but a lot of people are goingthe contractor route and, working with
(22:19):
them as much as they have capacity orsetting up retainers with them to make
sure that they at least can deliverspecific things that are needed.
So you can either go the hourly route orthe retainer route with contractors a lot
of the time, and that's where it matter.
It's just a matter of how much.
How much support are you looking to fill?
Brett (22:41):
What are some of the common pitfalls to avoid when
building out that scrappy team?
Because some people maybe new, they'relike, I don't know how to build a team.
What should I look for andplease help me avoid it.
Caroline Crawford (22:50):
Yeah, for sure.
And the, so there's so many pitfalls withmarketing, and that's the unfortunate
part about our industry, right?
There's a lot of people thatclaim they can do things, and then
you get there and you're like.
This is not what I expected it tobe, or whatever that looks like.
And I think that's where, as theleader, as the business leader
(23:11):
in particular, you have to be.
If you are not focused, then itis much harder for you to discern.
I.
Between what's actuallygonna work and what isn't.
And marketing is one of those areaswhere people are apprehensive around
what they're spending because the resultscan sometimes be, feel very uncertain.
But I think when you'rehiring actual support, I.
(23:32):
One being extremely clear about whatthe expectations are of that role.
Be very as organized as you can be.
So that way 'cause there's gonna be alearning curve no matter what, doesn't
matter who you start with, right?
There's always somewhat some ofthat catch up that they need to do.
The more you can be so crystal clearabout what your expectations are, what
(23:55):
the company is, what the offeringsare, what they're supposed to do.
The more that person has theability to find their place within
a system already that is in motion.
And so I think for, in terms ofavoiding specific pitfalls, look
for the red flags with hiring.
Look at assess, especiallyin a creative environment.
(24:16):
Identify someone's work like, makesure to look at a portfolio, make sure
that they have the, either a range ofstyles or match a style that fits you.
And fits your aesthetic.
I think from a copy standpoint, right?
All of these kind of creative, same thing.
What do they have a range of tone?
Are they, are you looking for moreshort, succinct copywriting or are
(24:39):
you looking for long form content?
There's some questions to ask yourself.
And then when it comes to the tech orthe generalist, it's that's where you
wanna find someone who's very organizedwho has the ability to communicate.
Get those red flags out of the way.
If they show up late to theinterview, that's a red flag.
If they're not communicativeabout things, that's a red flag.
(25:01):
Give them some, potentiallyeven some test projects, if
that's within reason, of course.
I think those are someways to avoid that unfor.
And then also too, be willing,if you are hiring contractors,
at least be willing to.
Cut them if they're not working out andI'm, I say that almost in a cutthroat
way, but at the same time, you'rejust gonna waste more money if someone
(25:24):
really doesn't have the skillset orthe personality to be willing to learn.
So they have to be willing to learnand adapt to what's gonna work for you.
Brett (25:34):
And your boss is gonna get mad at you saying, why are we
spending this much money on someonethat's not producing anything?
Caroline Crawford (25:39):
Exactly.
They have to.
Here's the thing, I think more and more.
There are some people, like I don't alwayshire unless I'm hiring for a very specific
thing that needs to be specialized.
More and more people are, or businessleaders are willing to work with
someone who has maybe a littlebit less experience or skillset.
(26:00):
But if their personality is one thatthey're driven, they're ambitious,
they wanna learn, they're curious.
Those end up being the bestemployees, and so I think.
There is that balance between what'sneeded now, because sometimes you're
willing to shape someone, but then itends up costing you more to do that.
So it is a balance, but I thinkjust try to weed out the red
(26:23):
flags as best as you possibly can.
Brett (26:25):
And what are some like inspirational things to save people
going through this marketing budget?
Cut?
Because I'm pretty sure everybody'sI don't know how I'm gonna get
all this stuff done by myselfor with a very small team.
Caroline Crawford (26:36):
This is so cliche, but if there's a will, there's a way for sure.
And I think don't be afraid to cut things.
Don't be afraid to say, you know what?
We're gonna do this, but not right now.
Focus, identify.
The first thing is toidentify what is draining you?
What's draining your team?
What's draining your budget?
(26:57):
Is it worth it?
If it is, if you really see the long-termvision, you need to optimize it.
If it's not right now,then put it on pause.
You can always go back to something.
I think that's the first step and I thinkthat's the hardest step too, because I.
Especially when you're workingwith business leaders that don't
understand marketing, they'regonna throw everything at you.
(27:18):
They're gonna, marketing is thecatchall and they're not gonna
understand what they're doing.
So you really do need to I, I like touse the approach of, I understand where.
What you're trying to accomplish,here are the barriers that
we have to accomplish that.
This is my suggestion, become verysolution oriented in the process.
(27:39):
I think you have a right to say, wejust simply don't have the capacity.
You either give us more budget tohire more hands, or you get, you
be the leader and you tell yougive us the focus that we need.
Brett (27:52):
So basically what I'm hearing is the power of No.
Caroline Crawford (27:54):
The power of No, absolutely.
Or the power of not right now is alittle bit more palatable for some.
Brett (28:04):
Yeah, the PR answer, not right now.
Caroline Crawford (28:06):
Yeah.
Brett (28:08):
Anyways, people are listening to this episode and wondering where
can they find you online to learn more?
Caroline Crawford (28:13):
So I have a website that has all the
information that they probably need.
So cultivate communications.com.
Cultivate is spelled alittle bit differently.
It's.
C-U-L-T-I-V-E-I-G-H-T.
I'm also on LinkedIn andvery active on LinkedIn.
So if they wanna add me, theusername is c Crawford 22.
Brett (28:33):
All right.
Any final thoughts for listeners?
Caroline Crawford (28:36):
Hang in there.
You got this.
Brett (28:39):
Alright.
Thank you Caroline for joining DigitalCoffee Marketing Brew and sharing your
knowledge on just building a scrappy teamwith a marketing, small marketing budget.
Caroline Crawford (28:47):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was, this was a blast
Brett (28:50):
and thank you for listening.
As always, please subscribedto this podcast on all your
favorite podcast at gaps.
You with Five star Review.
It really does help with the rankings.
Let me know how I am doing and join menext week as I talk to another great
thought leader in the PR marketing.
Industry.
Alright guys.
Stay safe.
It's understanding yoursmall marketing budget.
Stay safe as well and stay saneand see you next week later.
I think AI can be really helpful to
(00:02):
give the marketers a leg up.
So I use ai for instance, if I'm like,okay, I've got ideas like my heart, my
biggest challenge or what takes me thelongest is not the ideas, but it's how to
piece it together to where it makes sensefor everyone else but me kind of thing.
Right?
Brett (00:33):
Mm, that's good.
And welcome to a new episode ofDigital Coffee Marketing Brew.
I'm your host, Brett Geiser.
Could please subscribe to this podcaston all your favorite podcasting apps.
Leave a five star view reallydoes help with the rankings.
And now you can leave acomment on Spotify because.
Why not?
We love comments.
Anyways, I have with me Caroline, and sheis a business leader and with aligning
(00:58):
marketing initiatives effectively toachieve overarching business goals.
She is a seasoned marketer andcommunication expert with a 13 year
successful track record on blendingthe vision, the visionary with.
Just your business practicesand your sales goals.
But this week as well, we're gonnabe talking about building a market
team on a scrappy budget becausewe're all on that plane ride of
(01:22):
can you cut the marketing budget?
Can you be as lean as possible?
But welcome to the show, Caroline.
Caroline Crawford (01:27):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Brett (01:30):
Yes.
The first question is, all my guestis, are you a coffee or tea drinker?
Caroline Crawford (01:34):
Ooh, I just stopped drinking coffee a couple
months ago, so I wa I think at heartI am, I'm not a tea person very
much, but I've now stopped it all.
Brett (01:47):
Stopped it all.
So is it just like straightwater and that's all you do?
Mostly
Caroline Crawford (01:50):
water.
All.
I've, now, I'm trying toget on the matcha train.
It's not working as well as coffee, but.
Brett (01:59):
Fair enough.
I'm an old drinking person because Sure.
I still love coffee, buthas be a specific coffee.
Caroline Crawford (02:08):
Yeah.
What?
What's the specific coffee?
Brett (02:11):
I usually go for the more expensive ones.
'cause they're actually better.
Yeah.
If I have to, I'll go to Starbucks,but it's not never my first choice.
It's always my.
There's one, I don't know the area I'm inand there's no other coffee shops around.
Caroline Crawford (02:24):
Perfect.
Love that.
Brett (02:27):
Anyways, I gave a brief summary of your expertise.
Can you give our listeners alittle bit more about what you do?
Caroline Crawford (02:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've been in marketingcommunications for 13 years.
Like you said, I, throughoutmy career, I just.
Always had a very heavy hand in kindof all the things with marketing, just
and working with a lot of companiesthat had a very dynamic marketing team.
So they didn't have, it wasn't multipledepartments within the marketing team.
(02:51):
It was a lot of the times myself,maybe one or two other people, and.
The size of the companydid not match that.
So it was very interesting background.
But about three and a half years ago,actually, I think before, even before
that, while I was still in-house, Istarted to recognize the patterns and
(03:12):
look at the patterns I was experiencingin my career around marketing, the way
businesses viewed marketing, treatedmarketing and also the experiences I was
having in-house as an in-house marketer.
From outside marketers and that'sessentially what formed Cultivate.
I really saw this gap that existedbetween the way business leaders
(03:34):
viewed marketing, but also the waythat marketing support was delivered.
And so that's, I.
What I'm now out here doing.
And so ultimately, cultivatecommunications specializes in developing
and optimizing marketing functionsby aligning sales, marketing and
brand to create effective strategiesand create and increase revenue,
(03:56):
increase efficiencies across the team,and then ultimately grow the brand.
Brett (04:01):
All right, so what are some fundamental skills should.
The leader of a scraping marketing teamor the market team should possess to
ensure efficiency and effectiveness.
Because we're all in that.
Can you, and as always, businesses alwayscut the marketing budget first, so how
do you become efficient and effective?
Caroline Crawford (04:22):
Yeah, I think one, first things first, be adaptable.
'cause when you are in an environmentthat is needing to be scrappy.
You have to design everything ina way, in the way you operate.
To be adaptable, and nimbleas best as you possibly can.
That said, you do have to create structurein your marketing system, and I look at
(04:46):
marketing from all angles, everythingunder the marketing umbrella, umbrella.
So the easiest way to do to workwith limited resources and be
scrappy is to see how it allconnect connects together, right?
And what that looks like is developingmarketing strategies where you can
repurpose things, where content can workfor one channel and on multiple channels.
(05:11):
Putting, identifyingand isolating sometimes.
Pieces of your marketing puzzle thatare gonna take more time, effort,
energy, money, whatever that lookslike, and using that to fuel other
pieces of your marketing channel.
So that, those are just acouple ways to do that, but
ultimately structure, having your.
Team in place, being really aware ofwhat the priorities are and then saying
(05:35):
back to the business leaders, especiallyif you're the marketing team working
with business leaders that may makemarketing a little bit more challenging
for whatever reason, they may notunderstand what goes on behind the scenes.
It's really important for you to say,we have all these other priorities.
These are the processesthat we have in place, and.
You keep throwing curve balls at us.
(05:57):
So we need to either go back and put focusfor you on what's needed for marketing.
And that way we can structure ourteam a little bit better or we need
to completely reprioritize some thingsor operate a little bit differently.
Brett (06:12):
And on the content side, is it more focusing on the
evergreen content because that can.
Be either repurposed or refresheda little bit more than just the
seasonal or just the one-offs,because I feel like budgets are kinda
like, okay, what can I actually do?
And Evergreen is usually the one that'sthe easiest to repurpose and use.
(06:35):
Longer than anything else.
Caroline Crawford (06:37):
Yeah, you could look at it that way.
I see any content that's created honestlyas an opportunity to potentially repurpose
in some shape or form, as long as it'sstill relevant to the brand and what
the messaging is and things like that.
But ultimately, when you're creatingcontent, even older campaigns
and seasonal campaigns, there'susually a core message there.
(06:58):
That can then be repurposed.
Obviously, if it's a seasonal campaign,you did a winter campaign, let's
say, and then you're now in summer,some things have to be updated.
But I think the Evergreen content isgreat because you can squeeze a lot of
juice out of one particular Evergreencontent, and it's just a matter of
(07:20):
finding fresh ideas from that same thing.
But I think it doesn't really,to me, it doesn't really.
It doesn't have to be eitheror Evergreen or campaign.
I think that's where the strategicplanning comes into play and
the structure comes into play.
Because if you know what's ahead, you canunderstand how you can create content.
(07:41):
So if you're planning a marketingstrategy where you are, again, let's
say you're focused on an evergreencampaign about how to create, how
to maximize your marketing team.
Whatever.
What if you have a scrappymarketing team, right?
That's an, that can standalone as an evergreen content.
But let's say, okay, December's comingup, so how to then you can create
(08:05):
additional content, leveraging thefirst evergreen content that says,
okay, how do you maximize your team?
During vacation, heavyvacation schedules or whatever.
I'm just coming up with some randomexamples, but there's ways to do that,
and then even by vice versa, if youcreated the winter thing first, I.
You can then generalizeit to make it evergreen.
(08:28):
So I think that there's, it's moreso what is the core message you're
trying to convey and what's the corevalue you're trying to get out there?
And then I think you can get creative withall the different ways to go about it.
Brett (08:40):
And how do you identify and leverage the unique
competitive advantages of a.
Small marketing budget or a toneddown marketing budget depending on
what's the size of your business.
And is that also leveraging more ai?
Because you're a small marketing team, AIis prevalent and it's a little bit easier
to use given that you have a small budget.
Caroline Crawford (09:01):
Yeah.
I think AI can be really helpfulto give the marketers a leg up.
So I use ai for instance, if I'm like,okay, I've got ideas like my heart, my
biggest challenge or what takes me thelongest is not the ideas, but it's how to.
Piece it together to where itmakes sense for everyone else
but me kind of thing, right?
(09:22):
And so AI can be really helpful with that.
AI can also present different ideas.
It can lay out a strategy, itcan organize thoughts in term.
And then of course there's alwaysarguments about whether or not AI
should be used for generating content.
I err on the side of best.
You don't, if not, you vet it through.
I think in terms of the competitiveadvantages, the scrappier, the team
(09:46):
every, yes, it's hard on the marketers,but I think if you set up the right
structure, if you really optimize itcorrectly, the scrappier the team, the
more connected they have to be to survive.
So they have to serve.
They have to be so connectedto the business leaders.
They have to be so awareof what's going on.
They have to.
(10:06):
Become a well-oiled machine becausethey don't have room for error.
They don't have a high margin ofjust letting things fall to the
wayside or things getting overlooked.
They have to have, that's whereagain, you optimize your team.
It doesn't matter the sizeof your team, you can op.
I've operated with one or two people.
(10:27):
I've operated with just myselfmanaging a very large team.
Or, sorry, very large company.
I think it's just, I think that'swhere the competitive advantage
could be is because if you connect.
The greatest brands, the reason theyare getting so much attention, there's
multiple reasons to be fair, but a hugechunk of the reason if you really analyze
(10:48):
it is they're showing up everywhere.
And that's a challenge, right?
Because you, if you are showing upeverywhere, it takes a lot of resources
to really go heavy on some things.
But if you refine your focus becauseyour team is scrappy, it makes you go.
Do perform at that channel verywell, and then you can scale up
from there and then get really smartwith how you scale up from there.
(11:12):
But if you're looking at what otherbrands that are doing that are essentially
everywhere, they're doing the same thingjust on across the board on every channel.
So they're just repurposinga bunch of different things.
So if you have that kind of mindset,obviously maybe at a smaller scale, I'm
not saying everyone should be everywhere.
I think that's where you start to getinto this groove where, okay, everything's
(11:34):
gonna be connected, and then let's get,let's determine what our baseline is.
Once we have that going, let'sintroduce another channel.
And then once we have that going, weintroduce another and then we just
keep growing and growing from there.
Brett (11:48):
And is this part kind of the part of importance of
creating like a clear marketinggoal, marketing targets and goals?
So you can like.
Make your team efficient in delegationbecause it's not, or yourself, because
like you said, you've done it by yourself.
Is it like that part of things?
Because if you have a plan, it's easierto effectively delegate you or your.
(12:10):
Teammates or people under you?
Caroline Crawford (12:12):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that's really the first stepbecause if you don't have that, then
you're just come basically identifyinglike, okay, here's an idea I have.
Let's execute it, and it starts, andthat keeps happening over and over.
So it starts to become very inefficient.
But if you're like, okay, this isour goal, these are our marketing
goals, these are our sales goals,these are our business goals, you
(12:33):
can then be more intentional withwhere you're putting your efforts.
That then lend itself better to youbeing able to plan ahead for things.
So when I'm creating strategies,I'm thinking ultimately,
what's the bigger vision goal?
What's our immediate short-term goal?
So if someone, if a company's'cause everyone wants more sales,
everyone wants more brand awareness.
(12:55):
But you do at some point, especially witha scrappy budget, have to prioritize.
So if let's just say sales is the firstbudget that's gonna end, or sales is the
first primary goal in the short term.
That's gonna indicate what andhow and where you're putting
your marketing efforts, right?
So it's if you're doing sales,but you're doing brand awareness
(13:17):
campaigns, there's a disconnect, right?
So that's how you startplanning accordingly.
But I think having that strategy upfrontis going to be, it takes away so much
of that guessing and that legwork.
So then as.
The process evolves.
You can come together as a team withthe lead the business leaders and say,
based on our goals, I don't think wehave the ability to, or I don't think
(13:41):
it's worth our effort right now to doa brand awareness campaign or, it's
helps this shiny object syndrome thatreally appears with marketing and
allows you to maintain that focus.
Brett (13:53):
The other side of it is, have you found some like cost
effective tools or resources forthat scrapping marketing team?
Because I feel like you're gonna needtools, but you gotta pick and choose which
tools will be effective for you have.
Which ones have you found to be themost cost effective for doing the job?
Caroline Crawford (14:12):
I think Clickup is like any project management tool.
You can really plan like those typesof like specific marketing tech tools,
CL like a pro, any project managementsystem where you can really see what's
ahead and pri easily prioritize.
That is the best way.
But I've done it in like GoogleSheets, I've planned it all out.
(14:33):
All you really need, it doesn'treally matter what the specific.
Tool you use as long as it, yourteam is, as long as it's easily
adoptable by your team, essentially.
But you have to have the abilityto plan ahead and see what's coming
down the pipeline for marketing andalso to give yourself the ability to
(14:54):
see everything from a big picture.
I like to plan my strategies,like when I'm actually doing
the specific planning of.
What's going out when, what arewe talking about and kind of
content outlines and all of that.
I like to know what is happening withevery channel and what's happening with
our offerings, what's happening withother parts of the company in case that
(15:16):
has to influence marketing in some way.
Brett (15:18):
And could it be, you said Clickup, but could it be like
notion or anything like that?
Because Yeah, any type of
Caroline Crawford (15:23):
project planning a tool for sure.
I personally would just use Clickup.
Brett (15:29):
That's fair.
The main thing from what I'm getting isbasically just being like super organized
and knowing like you have a checklisteach day and actually doing it because
the hard part of being organized is thatyou actually have to do it each day and.
Be organized.
I think that's the hardestpart for a lot of people.
Oh yeah, I got all this done.
Wait, I have to do thisevery week now or every day.
This is not, I'm not gonna like this.
Caroline Crawford (15:50):
I know.
That's the hardest part.
And I would say and I've struggled withthat too, and I would say it's less even
about here's the to-do list, check itoff, make sure you're maintaining it.
Like that alone is a job.
That's why project managersexist because it's hard.
I would say it's moreof the sentiment, right?
It's how can you.
(16:10):
Con strengthen connection andcommunication amongst your
team and awareness of what'shappening with the company.
How you do that is going to be dependenton the leader, dependent on the
team, because everyone's different.
Everyone organizes different,like some people prefer p post-it
notes as their to-do list, right?
Like it's not about thespecifics necessarily, however.
(16:34):
As the marketing leader, you should havea very clear visibility to see what's
happening with your team, to understandwhat's coming, what's gonna be thrown at
marketing and how that's all gonna impact.
And then you can use tools likeNotion, you can use even Miro.
Anything that can like.
(16:55):
Where you can map out, or at least have,okay, even if it's a whiteboard in your
office, this is what's gonna happenand this is what we need to plan for.
And so there is a little bit ofthat organization, but for the
people who are really not organized,it's, it really is how can you just
stay in tune to what's going on?
So that's.
(17:15):
Enhancing maybe some communicationswith your team that's asking questions
around what's going on with therest of the business that's, just
being proactive in some areas.
Just to even if you're not actingon it now, just to open your
mind up to these other activitiesthat may impact marketing.
Brett (17:36):
And how important is it to have diverse skill sets within your team?
Because sometimes we're like, whydoes everybody have the same skillset?
I need people to actually dodifferent things that I can't do.
So how do you pick and choose that?
Because it, it is difficultto figure out unless you know
somebody, their actual skill sets.
And I think that's the hardest partis like, what can you effectively do?
(17:57):
Don't tell me.
Show me.
Caroline Crawford (17:59):
Yeah.
That's a great question.
I think it's.
Depend it.
I will say this, like it's, there's asmall caveat in that what you focus on is
going to be a little bit different, right?
There are some companies where.
Design really isn't abig deal for them, right?
But then there are some companieswhere it is a really big deal.
(18:19):
So I think that's where some ofthe caveats come into play is how
specialized do people really need to be.
But I would say that, again, goingback if you do tend, if you do create
a strategy and a plan ahead of time,you have more of an ability to predict.
This is where I think.
It is gonna take us a long time.
(18:40):
So for instance, if you're planninga team around and you know you're
gonna need some automations,how savvy is your current team?
If you're working with abunch of generalists, for
instance, to try to do that?
Or is like maybe you're workingwith a bunch of copywriters.
Is anyone willing or able to get into thetech mindset and really build things out?
(19:03):
I think it's really understanding what.
If everyone's generally quote unquote,doing the same thing or have the
same skillset isolate what uniquequalities they have within your team.
And potentially diversify that team,diversify their responsibilities
in some shape or form.
(19:23):
No one should be doing the same things.
If you have a scrappy team,you can't afford to have
someone do two people doing.
I.
Same work, unless it's a heavy,significantly heavy workload.
But that usually, that actuallycreates more inefficiencies if you
have people doing the same thing.
So you've got two people creatingcontent for things that really can
(19:46):
be consolidated and have you be the,I'm gonna be the copy person, you're
gonna be the tech person, right?
So that's where you can diversify.
I think in terms of otherskill sets and actually hiring.
I, it really is a matter of howspecialized do they need to be, right?
If you want someone to really build veryadvanced email automations within, you
(20:09):
are not able to give them direction,then you need someone highly specialized.
But if you're able, if as a marketingleader or business leader, you're able
to provide a little bit more creativedirection or guidance for them to execute.
They don't really needto be that specialized.
They just need to be organized or be veryclear about what their responsibility
(20:30):
is and be willing to learn as they go.
Brett (20:34):
And just to go along with that, is it also the decision between
hiring full-time or contract because.
You may sometimes just need a reallyshort span of somebody, so you just
might wanna hire a contractor insteadof a full-time employee because
you may just want them to build outand that's all you need them to do.
So how do you distinguish betweenhiring the full-time person and just
(20:54):
hiring a freelancer slash contractor?
Caroline Crawford (20:56):
Yeah, I think that's also a great question.
I would say that more and more companiesare leaning towards contractors because.
Marketing, but like you saidat the beginning, marketing
budgets are the first to get cut.
The fir they get like the bottomof the barrel budget so often.
So I'm seeing a lot of companies nowusing virtual assistants, for instance,
(21:18):
and I think it goes back to theearlier point of you have to understand
what hole you're filling, right?
If you.
Don't know what help you need andsometimes you, we as marketers, because
there's so much, you're like, I justneed someone to help with everything.
I have no idea.
Especially when your budget's so small,you just need one extra, like an extra
(21:38):
set of hands and you can do it that way.
And you could try to find ageneralist and in that case they
should probably be full time.
But I think if you're doingsomething, if you're very clear
about what's getting done, you havemore freedom to say, you know what?
I think we just need this contractor forX amount of time in a month, and they're
(21:58):
gonna focus on these primary tasks.
But I think it's just a matter of, I thinkif you're looking to generalize people
more, it's gonna cost them more time.
So therefore they shouldbe more full-time.
And ideally you can hire in-house sothat they are completely dedicated
to you, but a lot of people are goingthe contractor route and, working with
(22:19):
them as much as they have capacity orsetting up retainers with them to make
sure that they at least can deliverspecific things that are needed.
So you can either go the hourly route orthe retainer route with contractors a lot
of the time, and that's where it matter.
It's just a matter of how much.
How much support are you looking to fill?
Brett (22:41):
What are some of the common pitfalls to avoid when
building out that scrappy team?
Because some people maybe new, they'relike, I don't know how to build a team.
What should I look for andplease help me avoid it.
Caroline Crawford (22:50):
Yeah, for sure.
And the, so there's so many pitfalls withmarketing, and that's the unfortunate
part about our industry, right?
There's a lot of people thatclaim they can do things, and then
you get there and you're like.
This is not what I expected it tobe, or whatever that looks like.
And I think that's where, as theleader, as the business leader
(23:11):
in particular, you have to be.
If you are not focused, then itis much harder for you to discern.
I.
Between what's actuallygonna work and what isn't.
And marketing is one of those areaswhere people are apprehensive around
what they're spending because the resultscan sometimes be, feel very uncertain.
But I think when you'rehiring actual support, I.
(23:32):
One being extremely clear about whatthe expectations are of that role.
Be very as organized as you can be.
So that way 'cause there's gonna be alearning curve no matter what, doesn't
matter who you start with, right?
There's always somewhat some ofthat catch up that they need to do.
The more you can be so crystal clearabout what your expectations are, what
(23:55):
the company is, what the offeringsare, what they're supposed to do.
The more that person has theability to find their place within
a system already that is in motion.
And so I think for, in terms ofavoiding specific pitfalls, look
for the red flags with hiring.
Look at assess, especiallyin a creative environment.
(24:16):
Identify someone's work like, makesure to look at a portfolio, make sure
that they have the, either a range ofstyles or match a style that fits you.
And fits your aesthetic.
I think from a copy standpoint, right?
All of these kind of creative, same thing.
What do they have a range of tone?
Are they, are you looking for moreshort, succinct copywriting or are
(24:39):
you looking for long form content?
There's some questions to ask yourself.
And then when it comes to the tech orthe generalist, it's that's where you
wanna find someone who's very organizedwho has the ability to communicate.
Get those red flags out of the way.
If they show up late to theinterview, that's a red flag.
If they're not communicativeabout things, that's a red flag.
(25:01):
Give them some, potentiallyeven some test projects, if
that's within reason, of course.
I think those are someways to avoid that unfor.
And then also too, be willing,if you are hiring contractors,
at least be willing to.
Cut them if they're not working out andI'm, I say that almost in a cutthroat
way, but at the same time, you'rejust gonna waste more money if someone
(25:24):
really doesn't have the skillset orthe personality to be willing to learn.
So they have to be willing to learnand adapt to what's gonna work for you.
Brett (25:34):
And your boss is gonna get mad at you saying, why are we
spending this much money on someonethat's not producing anything?
Caroline Crawford (25:39):
Exactly.
They have to.
Here's the thing, I think more and more.
There are some people, like I don't alwayshire unless I'm hiring for a very specific
thing that needs to be specialized.
More and more people are, or businessleaders are willing to work with
someone who has maybe a littlebit less experience or skillset.
(26:00):
But if their personality is one thatthey're driven, they're ambitious,
they wanna learn, they're curious.
Those end up being the bestemployees, and so I think.
There is that balance between what'sneeded now, because sometimes you're
willing to shape someone, but then itends up costing you more to do that.
So it is a balance, but I thinkjust try to weed out the red
(26:23):
flags as best as you possibly can.
Brett (26:25):
And what are some like inspirational things to save people
going through this marketing budget?
Cut?
Because I'm pretty sure everybody'sI don't know how I'm gonna get
all this stuff done by myselfor with a very small team.
Caroline Crawford (26:36):
This is so cliche, but if there's a will, there's a way for sure.
And I think don't be afraid to cut things.
Don't be afraid to say, you know what?
We're gonna do this, but not right now.
Focus, identify.
The first thing is toidentify what is draining you?
What's draining your team?
What's draining your budget?
(26:57):
Is it worth it?
If it is, if you really see the long-termvision, you need to optimize it.
If it's not right now,then put it on pause.
You can always go back to something.
I think that's the first step and I thinkthat's the hardest step too, because I.
Especially when you're workingwith business leaders that don't
understand marketing, they'regonna throw everything at you.
(27:18):
They're gonna, marketing is thecatchall and they're not gonna
understand what they're doing.
So you really do need to I, I like touse the approach of, I understand where.
What you're trying to accomplish,here are the barriers that
we have to accomplish that.
This is my suggestion, become verysolution oriented in the process.
(27:39):
I think you have a right to say, wejust simply don't have the capacity.
You either give us more budget tohire more hands, or you get, you
be the leader and you tell yougive us the focus that we need.
Brett (27:52):
So basically what I'm hearing is the power of No.
Caroline Crawford (27:54):
The power of No, absolutely.
Or the power of not right now is alittle bit more palatable for some.
Brett (28:04):
Yeah, the PR answer, not right now.
Caroline Crawford (28:06):
Yeah.
Brett (28:08):
Anyways, people are listening to this episode and wondering where
can they find you online to learn more?
Caroline Crawford (28:13):
So I have a website that has all the
information that they probably need.
So cultivate communications.com.
Cultivate is spelled alittle bit differently.
It's.
C-U-L-T-I-V-E-I-G-H-T.
I'm also on LinkedIn andvery active on LinkedIn.
So if they wanna add me, theusername is c Crawford 22.
Brett (28:33):
All right.
Any final thoughts for listeners?
Caroline Crawford (28:36):
Hang in there.
You got this.
Brett (28:39):
Alright.
Thank you Caroline for joining DigitalCoffee Marketing Brew and sharing your
knowledge on just building a scrappy teamwith a marketing, small marketing budget.
Caroline Crawford (28:47):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was, this was a blast
Brett (28:50):
and thank you for listening.
As always, please subscribedto this podcast on all your
favorite podcast at gaps.
You with Five star Review.
It really does help with the rankings.
Let me know how I am doing and join menext week as I talk to another great
thought leader in the PR marketing.
Industry.
Alright guys.
Stay safe.
It's understanding yoursmall marketing budget.
Stay safe as well and stay saneand see you next week later.
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