April 22, 2025 • 32 mins
As your nonprofit grows, the question of how to manage your marketing efforts becomes increasingly crucial. Should you hire a contractor, bring marketing in-house, or maintain a mix of both? In this episode, we explore the intricacies of building and expanding your marketing team, offering insights on when and how to make these pivotal decisions.
Our guest, Kasper Sierslev, brings a wealth of experience from both agency and in-house perspectives. As a visionary thought leader in marketing operations, Casper shares valuable strategies for nonprofits at various stages of growth.
Key Insights on Marketing Team Development
- The importance of balancing in-house expertise with external perspectives
- How to determine which marketing functions to bring in-house first
- Strategies for effective collaboration between internal teams and external agencies
- The value of documenting processes and creating annual marketing plans
Building Your Marketing Dream Team
Casper suggests starting with a small, versatile team:
- A digital graphic designer for visual content creation
- A copywriter to maintain consistent messaging and brand voice
This foundation allows you to handle day-to-day marketing tasks while still leveraging external expertise for specialized projects or campaigns.
Maximizing Agency Partnerships
When working with external agencies, Casper recommends:
- Clearly defining project scope and expectations
- Fostering transparent communication and collaboration
- Utilizing agencies for their unique insights and industry trends
- Balancing agency work with in-house capabilities for cost-effectiveness
Streamlining Your Marketing Operations
To create more time for creative work, Casper emphasizes the importance of:
- Mapping out processes and creating playbooks
- Batching content creation for efficiency
- Regularly reviewing and refining your marketing strategies
By implementing these strategies, you'll be better equipped to make informed decisions about your marketing team's structure and capabilities, ultimately driving more effective campaigns and better results for your nonprofit.
Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:
07:12 Building Your Initial Marketing Team Start with a digital graphic designer and copywriter as your foundation for handling day-to-day marketing tasks.
15:38 Balancing In-House and External Resources Learn how to effectively collaborate with agencies while maintaining control over your marketing strategy.
23:05 Streamlining Marketing Operations Discover techniques for creating efficient processes that free up time for creative work and strategic thinking.
29:47 Embracing Creative Ideas Understand the power of innovative thinking in marketing and how to prioritize creativity in your campaigns.
Kasper Sierslev
Kasper Sierslev is not just a marketer; he's a visionary thought leader dedicated to transforming in-house marketing and creative collaboration. Kasper's journey is a testament to his commitment to sharing knowledge and nurturing creativity, not solely for client acquisition, but for the elevation of the entire industry.
As the founder of a company that helps brands establish and fortify in-house competencies, Kasper brings a wealth of experience. His extensive background encompasses pivotal roles in respected brand agencies, as well as steering his own startup and overseeing global campaigns for one of the world's largest shipping companies. This multifaceted experience equips him with a unique perspective, allowing him to effortlessly bridge the gap between diverse industry landscapes.
Kasper's passion for in-house marketing is palpable, evident in his best-selling b
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (00:00):
Having a consistent marketing plan and
somebody to consistently do themarketing is super important as
your organization grows. So howdo you know when it's time to
hire a contractor or bring yourmarketing in house? Which parts
of your marketing do you bringin house? Where do you start?
What's the first hire that youmake? All of these things are
questions that nonprofitsstruggle with a lot of times,
(00:21):
you have your marketing done byyour development team or your
development director, and whilethey definitely go hand in hand,
a great marketer might not be agreat fundraiser, and vice
versa. So in today's episode,we're going to be talking
through some strategies to thinkabout as you grow your team,
especially your marketing team,and determine how you want to
handle the tasks, who's going topass who you're going to pass
(00:43):
them off to, and what that lookslike for your team and your
organization. So my guest totalk about this today is Kasper
Siervslev. Kasper is not just amarketer. He is a visionary
thought leader dedicated totransforming in house marketing
and creative collaboration.Kaspers journey is a testament
to his commitment to sharingknowledge and nurturing
(01:04):
creativity, not solely forclient acquisition, but for the
elevation of the entireindustry. As the founder of a
company that helps brandsestablish and fortify in house
competencies, Kasper brings awealth of experience. His
extensive background encompassespivotal roles in respective
brand agencies, as well assteering his own startup and
overseeing global campaigns forone of the world's largest
(01:24):
shipping companies, thismultifaceted experience equips
him with a unique perspective,allowing him to effortlessly
bridge the gap between diverseindustry landscapes. Kaspers
passion for in house marketingis palpable, evident in his best
selling book, moving in house.So you're going to get some
great strategies for how tothink about that first
contractor that you hire, goingall the way through to Who do
(01:47):
you how do you kind of bringyour whole marketing team in
house as you grow and expand? Sowhether you're just starting
with your first hire or tryingto expand your marketing team,
this episode is going to begreat for you, but before we get
into it, is brought to you by dogood university. This nonprofit
membership was created by mydear friend Patrick Kirby, and I
(02:07):
am so honored to be able to be apart of it each and every week.
We go live every single week toanswer all of your burning
questions, about marketing,about fundraising, about events,
grants, capital campaigns andeverything in between. On top of
that, you have access to ondemand courses and trainings in
grant writing, dei fundraising,board management, social media,
(02:30):
marketing, tons and tons oftemplates and worksheets to help
you with everything, and it'sall there for you for just $50 a
month. So if you want to jump inand try two weeks free, come
hang out with us for two live Qand A's and see how it all works
out. You can grab that link atthefirstclick.net/dgu, and
that's the letter U. You canalso listen to an amazing
(02:52):
episode that Patrick and I didtogether talking about the power
of community and coming togetherwith other people that are doing
similar jobs as you, so that youcan learn from them, learn
alongside them, share yourwisdom and really just help all
fundraisers elevate to the nextlevel. So again, if you want two
weeks free, head on over tothefirstclick.net/dgu, grab that
(03:12):
link, and I can't wait to seeyou in an upcoming live Q and A.
Let's get into the episode.
You're listening to the digitalmarketing therapy podcast. I'm
your host, Sami Bedell Mulhern,each month, we dive deep into a
digital marketing or fundraisingstrategy that you can implement
in your organization. Each week,you'll hear from guest experts
nonprofits and myself on bestpractices, tips and resources to
(03:36):
help you raise more money onlineand reach your organizational
goals.
Hey, friends, please join me inwelcoming Kasper Siervslev to
the podcast today. Thanks forbeing here today.
Kasper Siervslev (03:46):
Thank you for having me. And you got my name
right? I know it's a difficultone.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (03:52):
It's like the worst part of podcast
episodes, once we get past thefirst name introduction, like
we're good to go. So I'm excitedfor our conversation today,
Kasper Siervslev (04:01):
but you got it right?
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (04:04):
Oh, well, thank you. Well, I wanted to
kind of jump in and before wekind of talk strategies, just
kind of hear from you whymarketing operations, why kind
of supporting businesses and howthey kind of add to their
marketing teams, whetherinternally or externally, kind
of why is that an area ofexpertise that you love and
something you love to talkabout?
Kasper Siervslev (04:25):
Well, it's because, actually, it may be a
funny way around, but I comefrom the creative side of
agency, so I'm actually old artdirector drawing stuff, and I
10-15, years ago, was hired inat Maersk, a big shipping
logistics company, to build thein house agency. And I kind of
(04:47):
found out a lot of people havefound this out before me, that
if you don't have, you know, themachinery running, then it's
very difficult to have time todo the creative stuff. Then
people decide things so. Youhave built the assets. When you
have, you know, shot the film,they say, Oh, could we do it in
blue instead? So, so that kindof got me, got me into the whole
(05:09):
operations, not necessarilybecause I like it, but just
because I saw so many places itwas. It was such a waste of
time. We were wasting time andmoney on, on, on, all the wrong
things. So So I that's kind of,you know, it was out of love for
the creative part of things thatI actually ended up doing all
the boring stuff.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (05:31):
Yeah, I love that, though, because I
often say this as marketers, westill have to hit our deadline,
regardless of if everybody elsedoes their part ahead of time.
So if we don't get our stufftill the very end, then to your
Yeah, to your point, thecreative sometimes tends to
suffer. So I love that that waskind of your passion, your
(05:51):
backstory, because I'vedefinitely felt that, too. And
doesn't matter the size of yourorganization, so you worked for,
I mean, a global organization.There's still not enough people,
there's still not enough bodies,there's still not enough
marketing people. So kind of,you know, for nonprofits, for
small teams, as we're kind ofstarting to grow and expand,
like, where's kind of the firstplace where we start to think of
(06:14):
like, you know, okay, we mighthave some more marketing things
that we need to do. We mightneed to systemize, systematize
us a little bit more, be moreintentional. And where do we
start with that? So
Kasper Siervslev (06:23):
traditionally, in housing and all that, that
started, you know, when yousaid, I need a graphic designer
to do this, because I, I can'twait to hire someone external
just to do these things aroundSo traditionally, that's where
it started. Then I would say,you know, just to be historical
about it. Then in the, you know,coming along social media,
(06:44):
that's the next step, becausethat was something where we
needed to do something fast. Andthen in the last five years, we
really see, you know, top levelcreative people moving in house.
But, but if you're a smallcompany and you want to start, I
would say, you know, thecopywriter especially, it
depends on what you're on, whatyou're doing. You know the kind
(07:05):
of business you're in, but, butthe more complex, the more you
need your own copywriter tounderstand what you're doing,
because there's so much copy andand I would say, even with AI,
you need someone to be theeditor of that. So, so maybe the
digital graphic designer and thecopywriter, someone you know
(07:28):
that would be my small dreamteam, if I was only to build a
two team setup and scale fromfrom that,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (07:35):
yeah, yeah. Well, because I think what's
important that you mentioned islike, even if you're bringing
somebody on board to docopywriting or or social media
or whatever, that storytellingpiece, that voice, even using
AI, like, understanding how youwant to present yourself is
really important. So I wouldlove maybe if you could share
some examples of or just somethoughts around you know, you
(07:59):
can bring somebody internally,there's a training process, but
if you hire an agency, there'sstill a training process. And I
think we tend to think that ifwe hire faster through an
agency, that will get more donefaster, and we forget about that
training process and thecoaching and like that. We have
to let them get to know us, sokind of maybe, what are some
pros and cons to both sides
Kasper Siervslev (08:19):
of Yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm not all in
house. I think my last book wascalled Win Win house. So it's
actually the best of bothworlds. So the pros of in
housing, obviously. I mean, ifyou have a complex product, like
when I was at Maersk, you know,understanding global shipping
(08:39):
and all the different needs. Socar manufacturers had one
shipping needs, meat fromAustralia, going or fish from
going to Japan, from Alaska,something like that. All these
things you know, you know, itwould take ages to onboard an
agency, and then as soon as youonboard them, they will shift
(09:00):
around. That's my experiences.Yeah, you know, then you would
get another team because theywere not available for this task
and so on, and then you have tostart over. So that's, that's
really one of the benefits,knowing the bits and pieces.
Other things would be indigital, you know, in the
digital age, would be, you know,access to the data yourself. So
(09:21):
when a copywriter writessomething, or a graphic
designer, art director doessomething, actually being able
to see is this working? Arepeople picking up on it and then
changing it, not waiting, youknow, a week to get a report
back and calling the agency?Could we do something? Because
then it's too late. The pitfallsof being in houses, of course,
(09:42):
that, you know, you get thetunnel vision. So, so, I mean, I
worked at a company where weinvented our own words, and we
talked so much internally aboutthese, this target group, that
we thought it was somethingeverybody was talking about
until, you know, almost. Havingthe final campaign. Radiance is
(10:02):
a thing people, you know, isthis a thing? So, so I think if
you're bringing people in houseand you're building that in our
team, you need to have thatoutside in perspective. They
don't have to do everything. Youjust have, you know, sometimes
you can just buy the ideas orthe creative thoughts, having
them come in and give your ideasand pay for that and and then do
(10:24):
the work yourself. So, so that'sdefinitely, you know, keeping up
with trends. It does have abenefit, working at an agency,
working with multiple clientsand and understanding and seeing
trends in other industries andso on. So I think that's the
that's, that's the the boat,with the Yeah, not either, or,
(10:46):
but, but both,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (10:48):
actually, yeah, the internal jargon, I
think, is a huge point, because,especially for nonprofit, well,
I guess in any business you'rein, you're so in the day to day
of what you're doing that I lovethat you just said, Yeah, we
thought everybody was talkingthe same language as we are.
Nobody knows that I do the samething. You know, I'll often
(11:10):
forget. I'll just say somethinglike SEO, which feels so normal
to me. And I'll always still beshocked when somebody's like,
wait, what does that stand for?Or, like, even AI. People are
like, well, I don't know. AItools. We don't use it. So I
think that's really important,yeah, and also that outside
perspective, so is there like amiddle grade, like, if we wanted
(11:31):
to hire somebody, maybe internalso that we can kind of do things
more quickly, but also have kindof external like, how do we
manage that balance for ourteams to stay on trend and stay
out there.
Kasper Siervslev (11:42):
So, when, when? So now we're running our
own agencies, and we have peoplecoming in, but before that, we
were really transparent and openabout it, and and calling some
of the agencies and says, areyou okay with, you know, us just
paying whatever you you know,let's, let's find something that
we both think is a great deal,and we pay for, for your
(12:04):
knowledge, for your time. But wedon't want you to go back to
your lab and do a big campaignand come back with the whole ta
da thing. We want you to sit ina meeting room over there, next
to us and work, and we can askyou questions, and we can see,
you know, the work. So, so wekind of, you know, get in the
process, and if you're going ina wrong direction, that would
(12:25):
be, you know, that let's juststop it there, and on black ink
and white paper level, so tospeak. So, so that's what, what,
what, what we did in the in thefirst couple of companies, is,
you know, you know, contactingcreative people agencies, or
even, you know, film directorsor something like that. Say, do
(12:47):
you want to come in and worktogether with us and then figure
out a fair price for foreverything? So you're not, it's
not like you're cheating anyone.It's just, you know, you want to
get what they're good at, notnecessarily their production
company or something.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (13:03):
Okay, so if I'm hearing you, it could be
something also, like having yourgeneralist marketing person in
house and contracting with otheragencies for those specific
things. Like maybe you needvideo production for an upcoming
Gala, or maybe you need aspecific type of, type of
fundraising marketingprofessional to come in for a
(13:23):
specific campaign. So maybe youhave your foundational things
running in house, and then youcan utilize some of these other
specialists for some of thesecampaigns that are maybe shorter
term or much more specific innature. Yeah,
Kasper Siervslev (13:34):
definitely. I mean, we always recommend to do
the really boring math. So kindof you know, see, how much, how
much do you need these people?You know, is it? Is it better to
buy an expert for one weekexternally than having them in
house? And you know, they aredrying out because they don't
really get challenged then, Imean, go externally. But if you
(13:58):
are, you know, if you're buyinga graphic designer on a
freelance basis every week. Whynot hire them and actually train
them and put them on your youknow, your your systems and
tools and your computers and soon. So, so you can utilize them,
them better, and train peopleand so on. So, so, so it's
(14:22):
really the math part. That's, Imean, it's kind of boring, some
of the stuff I'm saying, but,but it's really looking at, you
know, how much are you are youusing people? What are they?
What are they doing? What kindof assets do we want to do? Or
are you doing? How fast do wewant to go to markets? I mean,
for some customers, it's veryimportant to do something. You
(14:45):
know, we work with car brands,and when Tesla lowers the price,
then we have to do something.End of Day, we have to be in
market with something that'svery difficult with an external
agency, and you have to callthem up. I mean, that's. Old
Fashioned but and say, you know,can we have something so that
makes a lot of sense to havesomeone in house for that. Other
(15:09):
times, it's complexity, knowinga product or knowing different
markets where or differentcustomer types and so on, and
different behavior where, youknow, an external agency would
struggle. That would bedifficult. On the other hand, if
you're going to a lot ofdifferent markets, it makes a
lot of sense to call the theGerman PR agency. Who knows all
(15:33):
about, you know, German roofs,or Spanish roofs, or Mexican you
know, building structure. So youdon't have all these experts in
house. So I think it's, I mean,it sounds it is stupid, but it's
really simple. Really looking atwhat kind of content do we want
to do? How fast do you want todo it? And then say, Okay, then.
(15:58):
But in my experience, not a lotof companies are actually doing
that. They're more like, oh,let's do this, and let's do
that, and and then hiresomething for for that, and then
the other department is doingsomething different over here.
So
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (16:12):
yeah, well, I think what you're getting to
is it's all about what is whatdid we actually say we were
going to do this year? What dowe need to do to get there? Who
do we have that can do the work,and who are we potentially going
to need to help support thatwork? And I think, you know, one
of the things that was said tome years ago was, if you're
(16:33):
doing the same task more thanthree times, then it's time to
automate. And I think you'resaying a similar thing here. If
you're doing the same thing overand over, then it's time to
bring it in house, and if you'redoing it maybe only once or
twice a year, then it's time tobring in an agency or a
consultant that can kind of helpelevate it to the next level.
Kasper Siervslev (16:51):
Yeah. And so we do a lot of mapping out
processes, again, the reallyboring stuff to get to the
creative stuff. So really say,you know, what's the optimal
process for this? What, whatkind of gates do we need? So
let's say we bring in thatexternal agencies and say we
only want pen and paper, youknow, ideas at this stage, and
(17:13):
then we bring in our CEO to say,you know, if, if they like an
idea on pen and paper, I'm sureit will be great when you shoot
it on, you know, film andeverything, and then you have a
gate saying, This is what weneed to decide now, what kind,
you know, have the playbooks forthe whole year say this is the
kind of things we want to do.These are the assets we need to
(17:36):
create. You know, we're creatingthese every month, so maybe we
need to hire someone to do it,because that's definitely
cheaper and faster and alsoprobably better in terms of
consistency of, you know, lookand feel and everything so, so a
lot of things is, I mean,there's nothing rocket science
and what I'm saying, it's justreally, really common sense,
(17:59):
but, But, I don't think a lot ofmarketing organizations are
really, you know, digging intothis and looking at, you know,
how do we, how do we get moretime to do the creative, the fun
stuff? I mean, that's the wholeidea of doing marketing, is to
get to do something that peoplewill recognize instead of
getting swamped in meetings. Andyeah, redo as well.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (18:25):
Yeah, well. And I love this concept that you
keep bringing up of like we wantto get back to the point where
we can encourage and harness thecreative. So I agree with you. I
think when we get stuck in themundane, we when we you know,
you keep saying the process isboring the process, but if we
don't have the process, then wedon't open up the brain space to
be able to allow for thecreative to happen. We don't
(18:47):
have the time frame for thecreative to happen. We're just
like, you know, now all of asudden, we're just trying to
execute our email newsletter,and we're just trying to get
something out for the sake ofgetting it out, versus we're
thinking about how this fitsinto the bigger picture, and how
we're going to drive peoplethrough our process and continue
to encourage them to buy orrepeat buy or donate or
(19:08):
whatever. And so I think, Ithink that I love that that's
kind of the theme that I'mhearing through everything
you're saying. But it can feel,I think, maybe a little
overwhelming to people to think,Okay, well, now I have to have
an internal marketing person andmaybe have some external and
that's a lot to manage. So howdo we kind of start to think
about the types of people wemight want to hire? Like, what?
(19:31):
What skills or questions? Andthis is a very loaded, vague
question, no, no,
Kasper Siervslev (19:37):
I think it. It kind of goes back to having the
the yearly plan, let's you know,which is basically Mark basic
marketing, saying, What do wewant to do? Maybe even having,
like an ambition to be thoughtleaders, or being in this field,
and say, Okay, these are the theevents we want to do this year.
(19:58):
This is the supporting act.Activities we want to do. We
want to do podcasts. We want todo blog posts. And, you know,
don't spread yourself too thin.Pick out a few things that you
can actually manage and say, andthen start looking at how last
time we did a podcast, how muchtime did we actually spend on
preparing, editing, doing theinterview and so on. Yeah, that
(20:22):
took a lot, you know. Could wedo something, you know? Could we
have a plan for it next time soit's not something that comes
up? Yeah, we could probably dothat. Could we use the content
in different ways? Yeah, so andso. It doesn't take that much
time. It's, I would say a weekor two weeks efficiency in the
(20:44):
efficiently in, in January,February, where we are now to to
to map this out for the wholeyear, and do these, you know,
points, and then say, Okay, howmuch time and effort doing is do
we need for this? How can wereuse the content, or can we use
it in another way? And ofcourse, then pick out also
(21:08):
something, you know, fun. Sowe're not, you know, getting
swarmed. And what I experienceis also try to produce. You
know, not not sitting andwaiting, but producing. If
you're doing newsletters. Imean, you probably know what
you're gonna do next week andnext week again. So so a lot of
that you could actually producethree or four newsletters in a
(21:29):
bulk. It's much easier once yougo you're in that role to do the
next one and so on. So what Imean, that's what I seen a lot
of social media teams. You know,every day they come in and say,
oh, what should we do now,instead of producing,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (21:46):
yes, no, 100% well, and you mentioned
like, we're recording this inFebruary. This episode doesn't
go live until April, and sothat's a very prime example of
like we are fully batchingcontent ahead of time, so that
we give ourselves the space todo what you just said, right? So
those systems become even moreimportant, and also as we've
(22:10):
kind of because, I mean, this isepisode 298 so we're coming up
on Episode 300 but we did notget to our process in episode
one like it has continued to berefined. We've continued to add
support and how we kind of runthat process. So I think what I
love about what you're saying isthat that flexibility to say,
(22:32):
Okay, well, we're going to bringsomebody in to do this, but then
we might need to hire some outside sources to help us with
where we're at right now. Wemight bring it back in house. We
might move it out, but at theend of the day, you're still
working on your consistentsystems, because it is your
organization you own that thatprocess, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Kasper Siervslev (22:47):
Because, I mean, so you're still working on
the same stream, you have thesame playbooks and plans and so
on. And then you can, you know,adjust and refine, you know, all
the bits and pieces, you know,and then the steps in between,
say, Okay, this worked reallywell last time. Should we try it
again? Or should we trysomething different? So it is,
(23:07):
and, yeah, it sounds so boringwhen you say it. And so, you
know, it's very common. It's,it's just because, in the long
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (23:17):
run, when, when
Kasper Siervslev (23:18):
you keep, you know, meeting people, and say,
and you say, Oh, how are youdoing this? Yeah, we really
don't know. You know, every, youknow, we come every and every
day and say, What should we doon, you know, what's today's
campaign? And, yeah, and it'sjust a really, really stupid way
to work, because you waste a lotof time in meetings and, you
(23:39):
know, and not decisions and soon so
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (23:43):
And okay, so let's jump into, oh, go
ahead. No, no, go ahead. Sorry.Oh, I was just gonna say, let's
jump into like, if we aretalking to agencies or
consultants to bring them in toour organization, they're gonna
also come in with their ownprocesses and systems and way
for how or ways that they work,strategies that they have. So as
(24:06):
we're kind of interviewingpeople, how can we what types of
questions can we ask, or how canwe engage with them to make sure
that we're the right fit to workwith each other? Because that's
sometimes really hard. Itdoesn't you know, the work that
they do is one thing. They'rethe results that they give you,
but you still need to findpartners that you can work
together with synergistically.
Kasper Siervslev (24:27):
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I'm
really a big fan of working onthe ideas separately from the
production. I think a lot of youknow, especially when you work
with these, you know, one man,Army camera guys or smaller
agencies, you know, they havetheir own ways of doing
(24:47):
everything. And it's a bit, youknow, secret black box thing you
don't really know. And I'mreally in favor of doing the
transparent model, where yousay, I mean, it's okay. You go
back and you come back with someideas, and so on. But let's,
let's work together. I mean,most people go into marketing
because they like marketing. Ifthey just wanted, you know, do
(25:08):
spreadsheets and and writingchecks to any checks to
agencies, they know they wouldprobably be in accounting. So,
so we do this because, I mean,the in house Product Marketing
Manager, Head of Marketing, theythey know the business. They
know their clients, probablybetter than the agencies. So, so
you should work together. That'sthe benefit of working, not
(25:30):
necessarily in house, but withan in house team. So it's, you
know, I would really much, youknow, I'm a big fan of telling
people up front say, could youwork like this? Can you work
with, you know, bringing inideas on this level. We can be
on a retainer or whatever, but Idon't need you to, you know, to
do all the fancy stuff. I mean,maybe, but that's, that's a
(25:54):
different project. Now I'mbuying the idea from you, the
the film, the script, orsomething like that. Then we
talk about who should produce itand so on. So. So instead of
going to these big companieswhere you get everything and you
don't really know what whatyou're paying for, and in my
experience, you're you get thejunior work for the senior
(26:18):
price. Yeah, I'm getting a lotof enemies, and with this is
probably but, but in no
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (26:27):
but, I mean, I think it's your it's
it's transparency andcommunication, and we work that
way too. I think it's the overcommunication. I think when
you're a smaller business andyou're entering into a
conversation with an agency, thefeeling is that, well, they must
know better than we do, and soyou might take a back seat,
because you don't feel likemaybe they know better than you,
(26:50):
so you should just do whateverthey say, whereas I love what
you're saying, that if we bothcome to the table with this is
what we need, this is wherewe're going, and here's my
ideas, and let's have aconversation about you're going
To get much better results in amuch better partnership from
whomever you're working with,
Kasper Siervslev (27:04):
yeah, and you know, if they know something
from a different, you know,industry, because that's the
benefit of working with them,then, then they could just say,
we know this. We just done thisfor another client. This is a
great idea. And just tell itlike it is, and show that case
they don't, you know, they don'tneed to come back with
everything and the whole, yeah,flipping cardboard idea, like,
(27:29):
you know, Mad Men stuff. I don'tthink anyone does that anymore,
but, but so, so, I mean, sitdown book, spend time together,
go away on in a hotel room or ameeting room for a week, and
work work closely together, andyou know, the company comes with
(27:49):
the insights of customers andand if there's something you
know you need to figure outalong the way, then you have the
people who can call them or goback to sales and figure out
what Are people actually sayingso I'm really a big fan of this.
You know, working really closelytogether, not necessarily 100%
in house, but working as as oneteam. It's, it's yeah, it's,
(28:13):
it's yeah, it's easy. So
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (28:15):
good. Okay, well, if there's anything else
that you might want to leave askind of something to think
about, with regards to theconcept around external
information, ideas from yourinsular team, kind of, what
advice might you have to thepower of higher and I say this,
(28:37):
although this is what I do for aliving, so I'm an external
person, so This is not a salespitch for me or people to help
you whatever. I mean, I do. I dothink there's very strong value
in that. So I would just lovefor you to maybe, like, say,
share a little bit kind of amindset thing of like, why this
can be really powerful fororganizations. Well,
Kasper Siervslev (28:54):
I'm an external too, right? So, so we
come in and build in houseagencies and help companies with
this. So, so I'm so I'm probablynot selling it the best way. But
another thing I would say, Imean, trust the idea, I think
that's especially the last10-15, years, you know,
(29:17):
everything's been performancemarketing and looking at the
data and the last click, andwhat I'm really seeing the last
couple of years is, you know,the greater the idea, not
necessarily expensive oranything, but just a really
creative way of doing thingsthat people will notice is What
(29:38):
actually moves the needle. Sodon't get swamped in in doing
social media posts every day. Ifthey are boring, then cut out
some and do something that'sthat's better. So I would really
say, you know, trust thecreative idea, and that's, you
know, spend some time on that.You know, figure out your
(29:58):
processes so you don't. Spendtoo much time in the last part
of it and have more time to dothe great creative ideas,
because I really thinkcreativity works so
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (30:13):
good. Yeah, it's definitely what helps you
stand out amongst the noise, forsure. Well, Kasper, this has
been amazing. If people want toconnect with you, learn more
about how you support companiesand engage with you. How do they
Kasper Siervslev (30:25):
do that? Well, our company is called
zite.agency, so I can leave anote, or they could go every
year I have we publish a reportcalled the in house parameter,
where we we survey 100,000 No,1000 1000 people, I think, are
(30:47):
around the world about inhousing trends, what to do, what
not to do, the biggest issueswith in house agencies, and, of
course, also some benefits. Andthe next one is actually coming
out in April. So, so, so it'sprobably, it's called the in
house parameter. You canprobably just Google that or
(31:08):
find it inhouseparameter.com. Ithink,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (31:13):
well, we'll link all of that up in the show
notes at thefirstclick.net/298,so you can grab all of those
links as well. But Kasper, thankyou so much for joining us and
sharing your insights. Yourinsights today. Thank
Kasper Siervslev (31:23):
you for having me. It was fun.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (31:26):
Okay, so what was your biggest takeaway
from this episode? Kasper wassuch a great guest, and I'm so
grateful for him for coming toshare his insight. You can grab
all of the resources and shownotes at thefirstclick.net/298
we are so close to 300 and it'sgoing to be a fun one. But for
now, make sure you subscribewherever you listen, and if
you're watching on YouTube,comment below with your favorite
(31:47):
takeaway, what was the one thingthat you learned or something
that you're excited to implementnow leave us a review. It just
helps us get this podcast infront of more nonprofit
professionals that could reallyuse support in their
fundraising. And as always,thank you so much for listening
and joining us today on thedigital marketing therapy
podcast, I appreciate you somuch for taking time to listen
to me every week, and I will seeyou in the next one.
Having a consistent marketing plan and
somebody to consistently do themarketing is super important as
your organization grows. So howdo you know when it's time to
hire a contractor or bring yourmarketing in house? Which parts
of your marketing do you bringin house? Where do you start?
What's the first hire that youmake? All of these things are
questions that nonprofitsstruggle with a lot of times,
(00:21):
you have your marketing done byyour development team or your
development director, and whilethey definitely go hand in hand,
a great marketer might not be agreat fundraiser, and vice
versa. So in today's episode,we're going to be talking
through some strategies to thinkabout as you grow your team,
especially your marketing team,and determine how you want to
handle the tasks, who's going topass who you're going to pass
(00:43):
them off to, and what that lookslike for your team and your
organization. So my guest totalk about this today is Kasper
Siervslev. Kasper is not just amarketer. He is a visionary
thought leader dedicated totransforming in house marketing
and creative collaboration.Kaspers journey is a testament
to his commitment to sharingknowledge and nurturing
(01:04):
creativity, not solely forclient acquisition, but for the
elevation of the entireindustry. As the founder of a
company that helps brandsestablish and fortify in house
competencies, Kasper brings awealth of experience. His
extensive background encompassespivotal roles in respective
brand agencies, as well assteering his own startup and
overseeing global campaigns forone of the world's largest
(01:24):
shipping companies, thismultifaceted experience equips
him with a unique perspective,allowing him to effortlessly
bridge the gap between diverseindustry landscapes. Kaspers
passion for in house marketingis palpable, evident in his best
selling book, moving in house.So you're going to get some
great strategies for how tothink about that first
contractor that you hire, goingall the way through to Who do
(01:47):
you how do you kind of bringyour whole marketing team in
house as you grow and expand? Sowhether you're just starting
with your first hire or tryingto expand your marketing team,
this episode is going to begreat for you, but before we get
into it, is brought to you by dogood university. This nonprofit
membership was created by mydear friend Patrick Kirby, and I
(02:07):
am so honored to be able to be apart of it each and every week.
We go live every single week toanswer all of your burning
questions, about marketing,about fundraising, about events,
grants, capital campaigns andeverything in between. On top of
that, you have access to ondemand courses and trainings in
grant writing, dei fundraising,board management, social media,
(02:30):
marketing, tons and tons oftemplates and worksheets to help
you with everything, and it'sall there for you for just $50 a
month. So if you want to jump inand try two weeks free, come
hang out with us for two live Qand A's and see how it all works
out. You can grab that link atthefirstclick.net/dgu, and
that's the letter U. You canalso listen to an amazing
(02:52):
episode that Patrick and I didtogether talking about the power
of community and coming togetherwith other people that are doing
similar jobs as you, so that youcan learn from them, learn
alongside them, share yourwisdom and really just help all
fundraisers elevate to the nextlevel. So again, if you want two
weeks free, head on over tothefirstclick.net/dgu, grab that
(03:12):
link, and I can't wait to seeyou in an upcoming live Q and A.
Let's get into the episode.
You're listening to the digitalmarketing therapy podcast. I'm
your host, Sami Bedell Mulhern,each month, we dive deep into a
digital marketing or fundraisingstrategy that you can implement
in your organization. Each week,you'll hear from guest experts
nonprofits and myself on bestpractices, tips and resources to
(03:36):
help you raise more money onlineand reach your organizational
goals.
Hey, friends, please join me inwelcoming Kasper Siervslev to
the podcast today. Thanks forbeing here today.
Kasper Siervslev (03:46):
Thank you for having me. And you got my name
right? I know it's a difficultone.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (03:52):
It's like the worst part of podcast
episodes, once we get past thefirst name introduction, like
we're good to go. So I'm excitedfor our conversation today,
Kasper Siervslev (04:01):
but you got it right?
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (04:04):
Oh, well, thank you. Well, I wanted to
kind of jump in and before wekind of talk strategies, just
kind of hear from you whymarketing operations, why kind
of supporting businesses and howthey kind of add to their
marketing teams, whetherinternally or externally, kind
of why is that an area ofexpertise that you love and
something you love to talkabout?
Kasper Siervslev (04:25):
Well, it's because, actually, it may be a
funny way around, but I comefrom the creative side of
agency, so I'm actually old artdirector drawing stuff, and I
10-15, years ago, was hired inat Maersk, a big shipping
logistics company, to build thein house agency. And I kind of
(04:47):
found out a lot of people havefound this out before me, that
if you don't have, you know, themachinery running, then it's
very difficult to have time todo the creative stuff. Then
people decide things so. Youhave built the assets. When you
have, you know, shot the film,they say, Oh, could we do it in
blue instead? So, so that kindof got me, got me into the whole
(05:09):
operations, not necessarilybecause I like it, but just
because I saw so many places itwas. It was such a waste of
time. We were wasting time andmoney on, on, on, all the wrong
things. So So I that's kind of,you know, it was out of love for
the creative part of things thatI actually ended up doing all
the boring stuff.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (05:31):
Yeah, I love that, though, because I
often say this as marketers, westill have to hit our deadline,
regardless of if everybody elsedoes their part ahead of time.
So if we don't get our stufftill the very end, then to your
Yeah, to your point, thecreative sometimes tends to
suffer. So I love that that waskind of your passion, your
(05:51):
backstory, because I'vedefinitely felt that, too. And
doesn't matter the size of yourorganization, so you worked for,
I mean, a global organization.There's still not enough people,
there's still not enough bodies,there's still not enough
marketing people. So kind of,you know, for nonprofits, for
small teams, as we're kind ofstarting to grow and expand,
like, where's kind of the firstplace where we start to think of
(06:14):
like, you know, okay, we mighthave some more marketing things
that we need to do. We mightneed to systemize, systematize
us a little bit more, be moreintentional. And where do we
start with that? So
Kasper Siervslev (06:23):
traditionally, in housing and all that, that
started, you know, when yousaid, I need a graphic designer
to do this, because I, I can'twait to hire someone external
just to do these things aroundSo traditionally, that's where
it started. Then I would say,you know, just to be historical
about it. Then in the, you know,coming along social media,
(06:44):
that's the next step, becausethat was something where we
needed to do something fast. Andthen in the last five years, we
really see, you know, top levelcreative people moving in house.
But, but if you're a smallcompany and you want to start, I
would say, you know, thecopywriter especially, it
depends on what you're on, whatyou're doing. You know the kind
(07:05):
of business you're in, but, butthe more complex, the more you
need your own copywriter tounderstand what you're doing,
because there's so much copy andand I would say, even with AI,
you need someone to be theeditor of that. So, so maybe the
digital graphic designer and thecopywriter, someone you know
(07:28):
that would be my small dreamteam, if I was only to build a
two team setup and scale fromfrom that,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (07:35):
yeah, yeah. Well, because I think what's
important that you mentioned islike, even if you're bringing
somebody on board to docopywriting or or social media
or whatever, that storytellingpiece, that voice, even using
AI, like, understanding how youwant to present yourself is
really important. So I wouldlove maybe if you could share
some examples of or just somethoughts around you know, you
(07:59):
can bring somebody internally,there's a training process, but
if you hire an agency, there'sstill a training process. And I
think we tend to think that ifwe hire faster through an
agency, that will get more donefaster, and we forget about that
training process and thecoaching and like that. We have
to let them get to know us, sokind of maybe, what are some
pros and cons to both sides
Kasper Siervslev (08:19):
of Yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm not all in
house. I think my last book wascalled Win Win house. So it's
actually the best of bothworlds. So the pros of in
housing, obviously. I mean, ifyou have a complex product, like
when I was at Maersk, you know,understanding global shipping
(08:39):
and all the different needs. Socar manufacturers had one
shipping needs, meat fromAustralia, going or fish from
going to Japan, from Alaska,something like that. All these
things you know, you know, itwould take ages to onboard an
agency, and then as soon as youonboard them, they will shift
(09:00):
around. That's my experiences.Yeah, you know, then you would
get another team because theywere not available for this task
and so on, and then you have tostart over. So that's, that's
really one of the benefits,knowing the bits and pieces.
Other things would be indigital, you know, in the
digital age, would be, you know,access to the data yourself. So
(09:21):
when a copywriter writessomething, or a graphic
designer, art director doessomething, actually being able
to see is this working? Arepeople picking up on it and then
changing it, not waiting, youknow, a week to get a report
back and calling the agency?Could we do something? Because
then it's too late. The pitfallsof being in houses, of course,
(09:42):
that, you know, you get thetunnel vision. So, so, I mean, I
worked at a company where weinvented our own words, and we
talked so much internally aboutthese, this target group, that
we thought it was somethingeverybody was talking about
until, you know, almost. Havingthe final campaign. Radiance is
(10:02):
a thing people, you know, isthis a thing? So, so I think if
you're bringing people in houseand you're building that in our
team, you need to have thatoutside in perspective. They
don't have to do everything. Youjust have, you know, sometimes
you can just buy the ideas orthe creative thoughts, having
them come in and give your ideasand pay for that and and then do
(10:24):
the work yourself. So, so that'sdefinitely, you know, keeping up
with trends. It does have abenefit, working at an agency,
working with multiple clientsand and understanding and seeing
trends in other industries andso on. So I think that's the
that's, that's the the boat,with the Yeah, not either, or,
(10:46):
but, but both,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (10:48):
actually, yeah, the internal jargon, I
think, is a huge point, because,especially for nonprofit, well,
I guess in any business you'rein, you're so in the day to day
of what you're doing that I lovethat you just said, Yeah, we
thought everybody was talkingthe same language as we are.
Nobody knows that I do the samething. You know, I'll often
(11:10):
forget. I'll just say somethinglike SEO, which feels so normal
to me. And I'll always still beshocked when somebody's like,
wait, what does that stand for?Or, like, even AI. People are
like, well, I don't know. AItools. We don't use it. So I
think that's really important,yeah, and also that outside
perspective, so is there like amiddle grade, like, if we wanted
(11:31):
to hire somebody, maybe internalso that we can kind of do things
more quickly, but also have kindof external like, how do we
manage that balance for ourteams to stay on trend and stay
out there.
Kasper Siervslev (11:42):
So, when, when? So now we're running our
own agencies, and we have peoplecoming in, but before that, we
were really transparent and openabout it, and and calling some
of the agencies and says, areyou okay with, you know, us just
paying whatever you you know,let's, let's find something that
we both think is a great deal,and we pay for, for your
(12:04):
knowledge, for your time. But wedon't want you to go back to
your lab and do a big campaignand come back with the whole ta
da thing. We want you to sit ina meeting room over there, next
to us and work, and we can askyou questions, and we can see,
you know, the work. So, so wekind of, you know, get in the
process, and if you're going ina wrong direction, that would
(12:25):
be, you know, that let's juststop it there, and on black ink
and white paper level, so tospeak. So, so that's what, what,
what, what we did in the in thefirst couple of companies, is,
you know, you know, contactingcreative people agencies, or
even, you know, film directorsor something like that. Say, do
(12:47):
you want to come in and worktogether with us and then figure
out a fair price for foreverything? So you're not, it's
not like you're cheating anyone.It's just, you know, you want to
get what they're good at, notnecessarily their production
company or something.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (13:03):
Okay, so if I'm hearing you, it could be
something also, like having yourgeneralist marketing person in
house and contracting with otheragencies for those specific
things. Like maybe you needvideo production for an upcoming
Gala, or maybe you need aspecific type of, type of
fundraising marketingprofessional to come in for a
(13:23):
specific campaign. So maybe youhave your foundational things
running in house, and then youcan utilize some of these other
specialists for some of thesecampaigns that are maybe shorter
term or much more specific innature. Yeah,
Kasper Siervslev (13:34):
definitely. I mean, we always recommend to do
the really boring math. So kindof you know, see, how much, how
much do you need these people?You know, is it? Is it better to
buy an expert for one weekexternally than having them in
house? And you know, they aredrying out because they don't
really get challenged then, Imean, go externally. But if you
(13:58):
are, you know, if you're buyinga graphic designer on a
freelance basis every week. Whynot hire them and actually train
them and put them on your youknow, your your systems and
tools and your computers and soon. So, so you can utilize them,
them better, and train peopleand so on. So, so, so it's
(14:22):
really the math part. That's, Imean, it's kind of boring, some
of the stuff I'm saying, but,but it's really looking at, you
know, how much are you are youusing people? What are they?
What are they doing? What kindof assets do we want to do? Or
are you doing? How fast do wewant to go to markets? I mean,
for some customers, it's veryimportant to do something. You
(14:45):
know, we work with car brands,and when Tesla lowers the price,
then we have to do something.End of Day, we have to be in
market with something that'svery difficult with an external
agency, and you have to callthem up. I mean, that's. Old
Fashioned but and say, you know,can we have something so that
makes a lot of sense to havesomeone in house for that. Other
(15:09):
times, it's complexity, knowinga product or knowing different
markets where or differentcustomer types and so on, and
different behavior where, youknow, an external agency would
struggle. That would bedifficult. On the other hand, if
you're going to a lot ofdifferent markets, it makes a
lot of sense to call the theGerman PR agency. Who knows all
(15:33):
about, you know, German roofs,or Spanish roofs, or Mexican you
know, building structure. So youdon't have all these experts in
house. So I think it's, I mean,it sounds it is stupid, but it's
really simple. Really looking atwhat kind of content do we want
to do? How fast do you want todo it? And then say, Okay, then.
(15:58):
But in my experience, not a lotof companies are actually doing
that. They're more like, oh,let's do this, and let's do
that, and and then hiresomething for for that, and then
the other department is doingsomething different over here.
So
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (16:12):
yeah, well, I think what you're getting to
is it's all about what is whatdid we actually say we were
going to do this year? What dowe need to do to get there? Who
do we have that can do the work,and who are we potentially going
to need to help support thatwork? And I think, you know, one
of the things that was said tome years ago was, if you're
(16:33):
doing the same task more thanthree times, then it's time to
automate. And I think you'resaying a similar thing here. If
you're doing the same thing overand over, then it's time to
bring it in house, and if you'redoing it maybe only once or
twice a year, then it's time tobring in an agency or a
consultant that can kind of helpelevate it to the next level.
Kasper Siervslev (16:51):
Yeah. And so we do a lot of mapping out
processes, again, the reallyboring stuff to get to the
creative stuff. So really say,you know, what's the optimal
process for this? What, whatkind of gates do we need? So
let's say we bring in thatexternal agencies and say we
only want pen and paper, youknow, ideas at this stage, and
(17:13):
then we bring in our CEO to say,you know, if, if they like an
idea on pen and paper, I'm sureit will be great when you shoot
it on, you know, film andeverything, and then you have a
gate saying, This is what weneed to decide now, what kind,
you know, have the playbooks forthe whole year say this is the
kind of things we want to do.These are the assets we need to
(17:36):
create. You know, we're creatingthese every month, so maybe we
need to hire someone to do it,because that's definitely
cheaper and faster and alsoprobably better in terms of
consistency of, you know, lookand feel and everything so, so a
lot of things is, I mean,there's nothing rocket science
and what I'm saying, it's justreally, really common sense,
(17:59):
but, But, I don't think a lot ofmarketing organizations are
really, you know, digging intothis and looking at, you know,
how do we, how do we get moretime to do the creative, the fun
stuff? I mean, that's the wholeidea of doing marketing, is to
get to do something that peoplewill recognize instead of
getting swamped in meetings. Andyeah, redo as well.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (18:25):
Yeah, well. And I love this concept that you
keep bringing up of like we wantto get back to the point where
we can encourage and harness thecreative. So I agree with you. I
think when we get stuck in themundane, we when we you know,
you keep saying the process isboring the process, but if we
don't have the process, then wedon't open up the brain space to
be able to allow for thecreative to happen. We don't
(18:47):
have the time frame for thecreative to happen. We're just
like, you know, now all of asudden, we're just trying to
execute our email newsletter,and we're just trying to get
something out for the sake ofgetting it out, versus we're
thinking about how this fitsinto the bigger picture, and how
we're going to drive peoplethrough our process and continue
to encourage them to buy orrepeat buy or donate or
(19:08):
whatever. And so I think, Ithink that I love that that's
kind of the theme that I'mhearing through everything
you're saying. But it can feel,I think, maybe a little
overwhelming to people to think,Okay, well, now I have to have
an internal marketing person andmaybe have some external and
that's a lot to manage. So howdo we kind of start to think
about the types of people wemight want to hire? Like, what?
(19:31):
What skills or questions? Andthis is a very loaded, vague
question, no, no,
Kasper Siervslev (19:37):
I think it. It kind of goes back to having the
the yearly plan, let's you know,which is basically Mark basic
marketing, saying, What do wewant to do? Maybe even having,
like an ambition to be thoughtleaders, or being in this field,
and say, Okay, these are the theevents we want to do this year.
(19:58):
This is the supporting act.Activities we want to do. We
want to do podcasts. We want todo blog posts. And, you know,
don't spread yourself too thin.Pick out a few things that you
can actually manage and say, andthen start looking at how last
time we did a podcast, how muchtime did we actually spend on
preparing, editing, doing theinterview and so on. Yeah, that
(20:22):
took a lot, you know. Could wedo something, you know? Could we
have a plan for it next time soit's not something that comes
up? Yeah, we could probably dothat. Could we use the content
in different ways? Yeah, so andso. It doesn't take that much
time. It's, I would say a weekor two weeks efficiency in the
(20:44):
efficiently in, in January,February, where we are now to to
to map this out for the wholeyear, and do these, you know,
points, and then say, Okay, howmuch time and effort doing is do
we need for this? How can wereuse the content, or can we use
it in another way? And ofcourse, then pick out also
(21:08):
something, you know, fun. Sowe're not, you know, getting
swarmed. And what I experienceis also try to produce. You
know, not not sitting andwaiting, but producing. If
you're doing newsletters. Imean, you probably know what
you're gonna do next week andnext week again. So so a lot of
that you could actually producethree or four newsletters in a
(21:29):
bulk. It's much easier once yougo you're in that role to do the
next one and so on. So what Imean, that's what I seen a lot
of social media teams. You know,every day they come in and say,
oh, what should we do now,instead of producing,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (21:46):
yes, no, 100% well, and you mentioned
like, we're recording this inFebruary. This episode doesn't
go live until April, and sothat's a very prime example of
like we are fully batchingcontent ahead of time, so that
we give ourselves the space todo what you just said, right? So
those systems become even moreimportant, and also as we've
(22:10):
kind of because, I mean, this isepisode 298 so we're coming up
on Episode 300 but we did notget to our process in episode
one like it has continued to berefined. We've continued to add
support and how we kind of runthat process. So I think what I
love about what you're saying isthat that flexibility to say,
(22:32):
Okay, well, we're going to bringsomebody in to do this, but then
we might need to hire some outside sources to help us with
where we're at right now. Wemight bring it back in house. We
might move it out, but at theend of the day, you're still
working on your consistentsystems, because it is your
organization you own that thatprocess, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Kasper Siervslev (22:47):
Because, I mean, so you're still working on
the same stream, you have thesame playbooks and plans and so
on. And then you can, you know,adjust and refine, you know, all
the bits and pieces, you know,and then the steps in between,
say, Okay, this worked reallywell last time. Should we try it
again? Or should we trysomething different? So it is,
(23:07):
and, yeah, it sounds so boringwhen you say it. And so, you
know, it's very common. It's,it's just because, in the long
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (23:17):
run, when, when
Kasper Siervslev (23:18):
you keep, you know, meeting people, and say,
and you say, Oh, how are youdoing this? Yeah, we really
don't know. You know, every, youknow, we come every and every
day and say, What should we doon, you know, what's today's
campaign? And, yeah, and it'sjust a really, really stupid way
to work, because you waste a lotof time in meetings and, you
(23:39):
know, and not decisions and soon so
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (23:43):
And okay, so let's jump into, oh, go
ahead. No, no, go ahead. Sorry.Oh, I was just gonna say, let's
jump into like, if we aretalking to agencies or
consultants to bring them in toour organization, they're gonna
also come in with their ownprocesses and systems and way
for how or ways that they work,strategies that they have. So as
(24:06):
we're kind of interviewingpeople, how can we what types of
questions can we ask, or how canwe engage with them to make sure
that we're the right fit to workwith each other? Because that's
sometimes really hard. Itdoesn't you know, the work that
they do is one thing. They'rethe results that they give you,
but you still need to findpartners that you can work
together with synergistically.
Kasper Siervslev (24:27):
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I'm
really a big fan of working onthe ideas separately from the
production. I think a lot of youknow, especially when you work
with these, you know, one man,Army camera guys or smaller
agencies, you know, they havetheir own ways of doing
(24:47):
everything. And it's a bit, youknow, secret black box thing you
don't really know. And I'mreally in favor of doing the
transparent model, where yousay, I mean, it's okay. You go
back and you come back with someideas, and so on. But let's,
let's work together. I mean,most people go into marketing
because they like marketing. Ifthey just wanted, you know, do
(25:08):
spreadsheets and and writingchecks to any checks to
agencies, they know they wouldprobably be in accounting. So,
so we do this because, I mean,the in house Product Marketing
Manager, Head of Marketing, theythey know the business. They
know their clients, probablybetter than the agencies. So, so
you should work together. That'sthe benefit of working, not
(25:30):
necessarily in house, but withan in house team. So it's, you
know, I would really much, youknow, I'm a big fan of telling
people up front say, could youwork like this? Can you work
with, you know, bringing inideas on this level. We can be
on a retainer or whatever, but Idon't need you to, you know, to
do all the fancy stuff. I mean,maybe, but that's, that's a
(25:54):
different project. Now I'mbuying the idea from you, the
the film, the script, orsomething like that. Then we
talk about who should produce itand so on. So. So instead of
going to these big companieswhere you get everything and you
don't really know what whatyou're paying for, and in my
experience, you're you get thejunior work for the senior
(26:18):
price. Yeah, I'm getting a lotof enemies, and with this is
probably but, but in no
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (26:27):
but, I mean, I think it's your it's
it's transparency andcommunication, and we work that
way too. I think it's the overcommunication. I think when
you're a smaller business andyou're entering into a
conversation with an agency, thefeeling is that, well, they must
know better than we do, and soyou might take a back seat,
because you don't feel likemaybe they know better than you,
(26:50):
so you should just do whateverthey say, whereas I love what
you're saying, that if we bothcome to the table with this is
what we need, this is wherewe're going, and here's my
ideas, and let's have aconversation about you're going
To get much better results in amuch better partnership from
whomever you're working with,
Kasper Siervslev (27:04):
yeah, and you know, if they know something
from a different, you know,industry, because that's the
benefit of working with them,then, then they could just say,
we know this. We just done thisfor another client. This is a
great idea. And just tell itlike it is, and show that case
they don't, you know, they don'tneed to come back with
everything and the whole, yeah,flipping cardboard idea, like,
(27:29):
you know, Mad Men stuff. I don'tthink anyone does that anymore,
but, but so, so, I mean, sitdown book, spend time together,
go away on in a hotel room or ameeting room for a week, and
work work closely together, andyou know, the company comes with
(27:49):
the insights of customers andand if there's something you
know you need to figure outalong the way, then you have the
people who can call them or goback to sales and figure out
what Are people actually sayingso I'm really a big fan of this.
You know, working really closelytogether, not necessarily 100%
in house, but working as as oneteam. It's, it's yeah, it's,
(28:13):
it's yeah, it's easy. So
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (28:15):
good. Okay, well, if there's anything else
that you might want to leave askind of something to think
about, with regards to theconcept around external
information, ideas from yourinsular team, kind of, what
advice might you have to thepower of higher and I say this,
(28:37):
although this is what I do for aliving, so I'm an external
person, so This is not a salespitch for me or people to help
you whatever. I mean, I do. I dothink there's very strong value
in that. So I would just lovefor you to maybe, like, say,
share a little bit kind of amindset thing of like, why this
can be really powerful fororganizations. Well,
Kasper Siervslev (28:54):
I'm an external too, right? So, so we
come in and build in houseagencies and help companies with
this. So, so I'm so I'm probablynot selling it the best way. But
another thing I would say, Imean, trust the idea, I think
that's especially the last10-15, years, you know,
(29:17):
everything's been performancemarketing and looking at the
data and the last click, andwhat I'm really seeing the last
couple of years is, you know,the greater the idea, not
necessarily expensive oranything, but just a really
creative way of doing thingsthat people will notice is What
(29:38):
actually moves the needle. Sodon't get swamped in in doing
social media posts every day. Ifthey are boring, then cut out
some and do something that'sthat's better. So I would really
say, you know, trust thecreative idea, and that's, you
know, spend some time on that.You know, figure out your
(29:58):
processes so you don't. Spendtoo much time in the last part
of it and have more time to dothe great creative ideas,
because I really thinkcreativity works so
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (30:13):
good. Yeah, it's definitely what helps you
stand out amongst the noise, forsure. Well, Kasper, this has
been amazing. If people want toconnect with you, learn more
about how you support companiesand engage with you. How do they
Kasper Siervslev (30:25):
do that? Well, our company is called
zite.agency, so I can leave anote, or they could go every
year I have we publish a reportcalled the in house parameter,
where we we survey 100,000 No,1000 1000 people, I think, are
(30:47):
around the world about inhousing trends, what to do, what
not to do, the biggest issueswith in house agencies, and, of
course, also some benefits. Andthe next one is actually coming
out in April. So, so, so it'sprobably, it's called the in
house parameter. You canprobably just Google that or
(31:08):
find it inhouseparameter.com. Ithink,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (31:13):
well, we'll link all of that up in the show
notes at thefirstclick.net/298,so you can grab all of those
links as well. But Kasper, thankyou so much for joining us and
sharing your insights. Yourinsights today. Thank
Kasper Siervslev (31:23):
you for having me. It was fun.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (31:26):
Okay, so what was your biggest takeaway
from this episode? Kasper wassuch a great guest, and I'm so
grateful for him for coming toshare his insight. You can grab
all of the resources and shownotes at thefirstclick.net/298
we are so close to 300 and it'sgoing to be a fun one. But for
now, make sure you subscribewherever you listen, and if
you're watching on YouTube,comment below with your favorite
(31:47):
takeaway, what was the one thingthat you learned or something
that you're excited to implementnow leave us a review. It just
helps us get this podcast infront of more nonprofit
professionals that could reallyuse support in their
fundraising. And as always,thank you so much for listening
and joining us today on thedigital marketing therapy
podcast, I appreciate you somuch for taking time to listen
to me every week, and I will seeyou in the next one.
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