August 5, 2025 • 31 mins
Are you struggling to attract more visitors to your nonprofit's website? In this episode, I sit down with Steven Schneider, co-founder and CEO of Trio SEO, to explore the power of search engine optimization (SEO) for mission-driven organizations. We discuss why SEO is a crucial long-term strategy for increasing your online visibility and connecting with potential donors and supporters.
Building a Foundation for Sustainable Growth
Steven shares insights on:
- Why SEO is like investing in your retirement account for your nonprofit
- The importance of patience and consistency in your SEO efforts
- How to balance short-term paid strategies with long-term organic growth
Practical SEO Strategies for Nonprofits
Discover actionable advice for improving your website's search rankings:
- Crafting content that aligns with what your audience is actually searching for
- Leveraging free tools like Google Search Console and Google Analytics
- Optimizing your Google Business Profile for local nonprofits
Measuring Success and Adapting Your Approach
Learn how to:
- Track your SEO progress using key metrics and tools
- Identify which content is resonating with your audience
- Adjust your strategy based on real data and user behavior
Overcoming Common SEO Challenges
We address potential hurdles in implementing an SEO strategy:
- Balancing SEO efforts with other marketing priorities
- Staying motivated during the initial “sandbox” period for new websites
- Adapting to changes in search engine algorithms and user behavior
Whether you're new to SEO or looking to refine your current approach, this conversation offers valuable insights to help you increase your nonprofit's online visibility and connect with more supporters.
Want to skip ahead? Here are some key takeaways:
06:28 Understanding Organic vs. Paid Traffic Learn the difference between organic search results and paid advertising, and how they can work together in your digital strategy.
12:15 Essential SEO Tools for Nonprofits Discover free and paid resources to help you research keywords, analyze your website's performance, and track your progress.
19:36 Creating Content That Ranks Explore strategies for developing blog posts and web pages that address your audience's needs and align with popular search terms.
26:15 Optimizing for Local Search Understand how to leverage your Google Business Profile to improve visibility for local nonprofits and events.
Don't miss this opportunity to learn how SEO can help your nonprofit reach more people and make a bigger impact. Tune in for a conversation that could transform your approach to online visibility and donor engagement.
Resources
Google Ad Grant: https://www.google.com/grants/
Google Search Console & Analytics: https://search.google.com/search-console/about
SEMRush: https://www.semrush.com/
Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/
Steven Schneider
Steven is co-founder and CEO at TrioSEO, an agency that helps B2B brands design and implement ROI-focused SEO strategies.
Before TrioSEO, he co-owned a portfolio of 40 blogs, managed 400 articles monthly, and scaled to 7 figures via SEO – no paid ads, social media, or other strategies.
Today, TrioSEO creates content that converts browsers into buyers. Their team manages everything – the process is 100% hands-off for founders and CMOs
Learn more at TrioSEO.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/schneis/
Connect with us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-first-click
Learn more about The First Click: https://thefirstclick.net
Schedule a Digital Marketing Therapy Session: https://thefirstclick.net/officehours
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (00:00):
You can't convert people on your website if
you don't get them to your website.
And search engine optimization, orSEO is one of the ways that you can
increase traffic to your website, getmore people consuming the content,
building trust, engaging with you,taking an action, whether that be,
make a donation, whether that be signup for your newsletter, um, you know,
(00:23):
buy a ticket, whatever it might be.
So that is what we were talkingabout today, some really
foundational ways to think aboutyour SEO strategy for beginners.
So there's not a whole lot of crazytech things in this episode, but so much
good stuff as far as what you need to doto lay the groundwork, how you can pay
attention to what works, what's working,and what's not, and how SEO can really lay
(00:44):
the groundwork for your long term growth.
You're here for the long haul,so let's put strategies in place
that are gonna help you get there.
And to have this conversation, we arejoined by my guest, Steven Schneider.
Steven is the co-founder and CEO ofTrio, SEO, an agency that helps B2B
brands design and implement ROI focusedSEO strategies Before Trio, SEO, he
(01:06):
co-owned a portfolio of 40 blogs,managed 400 articles monthly and scaled
to seven figures via SEO, no paid ads,social media, or other strategies.
Today, trio, SEO creates contentthat converts browsers into buyers.
Their team manages everything.
The process is a hundred percenthands off for the founders and CMOs.
So he's got some greatstrategies to share with you.
(01:29):
You're gonna love it.
I know you are.
And it will help you also understandkind of maybe what questions you wanna
ask or how you should engage, um, withpeople that are helping you do this work.
So let's jump into it before we do it isbrought to you by, uh, do good university.
Dugood University is a membership thatI'm so excited to be invited into.
(01:54):
Um, it is a community of smallto medium sized nonprofits who
are just trying to do the thing.
It's full of on-demand contentfrom everything from grant writing
to marketing, to fundraising,board governance, productivity,
hr, all of the things.
And you can watch anythinglive whenever you want, but.
Patrick Kirby, the founderand I go live every single
(02:17):
week to answer your questions.
You can come hang out with us, see whatother nonprofits are struggling with,
um, hear some solutions and ways thatwe're helping them through fundraising
and marketing, and really just be arounda community of people that are doing
what you're doing every single day.
Um, you can learn more and get two weeksfree@thefirstclick.net slash dge letter u,
(02:39):
but I hope you'll join us and I can't waitto see you soon on one of our live calls.
Let's get into the episode.
You're listening to the DigitalMarketing Therapy Podcast.
I'm your host, Sammy Del Mulhern.
Each month we dive deep into a digitalmarketing or fundraising strategy that
you can implement in your organization.
Each week you'll hear from guestexperts, nonprofits, and myself on
(03:03):
best practices, tips and resourcesto help you raise more money online
and reach your organizational goals.
Hey friends, please join me in welcomingSteven Schneider to the podcast.
Steven, thanks for being here today.
Steven Schneider (03:16):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (03:18):
Yeah, well, we're talking SEO or search engine optimization.
Um, it is one of the acronyms thatI have learned that while it's like
in my vernacular all the time, itis not in everyone's vernacular.
So, um, we haven't talked about it in awhile, so I'm excited to have you here.
Um, but before we kind of jump intosome strategies and some topics.
Like why SEO for you, why is thisa, a strategy that you think is
(03:41):
important for, uh, nonprofits tohave in their, in their toolbox?
Steven Schneider (03:45):
Yeah.
I, I can only speak from my own experienceand I think that the reason that SEO
was such a, like aha moment for me wasthat I was in college and trying to
figure out what to do with my life.
And like many people, I didn'treally have a path in mind.
It was just kind of stay in school untilI get my graduate and I get my master's
and then like, I'll figure it out by then.
(04:07):
And thankfully my friend and soonto be a mentor at that time showed
me that he was making money onlinepassively through free traffic.
And as a result of that, he wasable to use SEO and leverage Google
in such a way that just broughttraffic consistently day after day.
And it started to compound fromthat kind of side of things.
(04:29):
And so.
I just quickly realized howmuch leverage came with SEO.
It's like if you do a lot of the upfrontwork and you're willing to pay the play,
the patience game, and you're willingto just kind of like, you know, sit
on your hands for a little bit, do thebasic principles, like more of the easier
stuff, like it's this snowballing casketeffect that just brings customers to
(04:50):
your site without you even paying for it.
Like from a paid ads perspective.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (04:54):
Um, I love this so much because like, that's
definitely how we approach our marketingstrategies holistically for our clients.
And here on the podcast is it'slike slow and steady wins the race.
Like you're not here justto make a quick buck.
And if you are, those strategies you'reusing are going to stop working just
as quickly as they start working.
Um, and you're just gonnaplay that catch up game.
So I love that you're, you know,you're saying this is a long
(05:17):
game that we're playing here, butevery little thing that you do.
Eventually is gonna steamroll.
So I think that's really important forus to understand that we're building
foundational things here that aregonna work for a long time as opposed
to trying to do a bunch of things thatmight not work, uh, for a long time.
So we're on the same page there for sure.
(05:39):
Um, so before we kind of touchon a few things, I wanted to, um.
Just ask you like, could you maybeshare some definitions like, you know,
organic traffic versus direct traffic?
Like, just so we can kind ofunderstand when we're working on these
strategies, what that, what that isdoing for our, our website traffic.
Steven Schneider (05:58):
Yeah, for sure.
So direct traffic would be anybodythat types in your, um, your brand or
your direct name into the search bar.
It just goes immediately to your website.
So easy example is like if you aregoing to Amazon and you're just
typing amazon.com in your search bar,like that's a direct traffic source.
The alternate to that would be organic,where if you're searching for the
(06:20):
product, maybe it's like, um, maybeyou're looking for like a new pair of
hiking shoes and you're typing like.
Hiking shoes for men size 10.
And when you throw that into Google,you then be directed to an organic
or a more natural placement thatthen would take you to Amazon.
So it's those, those results thatappear on the first page of Google
(06:42):
that you see that don't have thelittle sponsored kind of tag.
Mm-hmm.
Next to it, which would be a PPC play.
So these are what we callorganic showcasing of.
Or ranks or rankings based onkeywords and the keywords you type
and how those two kind of connect.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (06:58):
Yeah.
Well, and I wanna say too, likesearch is, and your website
traffic is a numbers game, right?
Like the more people you havecoming to your site, the more likely
you're gonna have those conversions.
Now it's not as simple as that.
Your website obviously has to have theright setup in order to convert customers
or, or visitors once they're there.
But, um, and we're not gonna talk alot about the Google Ad Grant, but I
do always mention it whenever I can.
(07:19):
'cause most people don'tknow that it exists.
Truly.
And um, as a nonprofit, you have anability to have that top placement much
faster with less money because you get$10,000 for free from from Google Ads.
Now there's work that goes into it.
We were talking about this before that we,both Steven and I, do not do PPC paid ads.
Um, so.
(07:40):
It is a whole nother thing thatyou have to learn, but just it
does give you that top placement.
Um, and you have that advantagethat other businesses don't have.
So just keep that in mind.
There's other podcast episodes we'lllink up that can talk more about that,
but it is part of this overall strategy.
So without getting too much into theweeds, could you maybe just talk a
little bit about how you see like apaid approach working in conjunction
(08:02):
with organic traffic or like whattypes of things we might wanna think
about from the website side of things?
Steven Schneider (08:07):
Yeah, so the main thing is kind of like the, um, the PPC play or
the paid ads approach is going to be your,your short term quick result strategy.
You're obviously paying for aspot in Google that's even higher
than organic search, like PPC.
You get the immediate top thing andthen organic is displayed below that.
So you're paying and trying to competeagainst others in your space, and
(08:31):
that's gonna come with a much quickerROI or return on your investment for.
The keywords that you're bidding on.
Uh, whereas with the SEO play,it's a much longer, more delayed.
I always say it's like the,the biggest game of delayed
gratification that that ever existed.
But the benefit to that is it's free todo, you know, you can presumably create
(08:53):
content on your site, optimize your site,all of these kind of DIY things that
allow you to capture or work toward a topspot for a given keyword without pain.
For every single click or bid inthat space, like once you've secure
a top spot, you could easily livethere for months without even
changing anything on your site.
So it's a really, really advantageousplay that if you just work toward it and
(09:18):
you kind of are patient, you kind of cancapture a lot of that traffic for free.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (09:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
So when we talk patient.
This is the question I get allthe time when we build a website.
Well, when will I rank onthe first page of Google?
And I know you don't havethe magic answer, but what
are we looking at right now?
Um, 'cause I know the timelineand I know there's a lot of things
that come into play, but what arewe talking about with patients?
Like how long are we reallygonna have to kind of wait?
(09:43):
And what types of things mightwe have to do in order to make
sure we're continuing to build.
Up higher in those rankings.
Steven Schneider (09:51):
Yeah, so if you build a website from scratch, say
you go to WordPress or Squarespacetomorrow and click publish, you
actually are what's, you're inthis thing called Google Sandbox.
It's kind of like this protectedarea based on Google's ranking
parameters, where you have to gainthe trust and time in order to even
start getting that SEO traffic.
(10:12):
So.
Brand new sites, I would expectanywhere from six to nine months
depending on how well optimized it is.
Like if you are a top SEO, you canprobably get a ranking in six months.
If you're very new to that world,I would expect nine to 12 months.
Yeah, very realistically.
Um, the big thing that really determineshow quickly you can rank based on what
(10:34):
you're doing to your website is thedomain age, like how old your website is.
So if you're a. You know, 20-year-old,30-year-old nonprofit, you have
much more credibility in your spaceand much more trust with Google.
And so changing something on yoursite is gonna be quickly picked up
on and easily shown, uh, to others.
And then the other thing too is justhow much authority you have in your
(10:56):
space relative to your competitors.
And so.
When I say authority, the bestthing to think about is like
how much, um, you know, trust orexpertise you bring to the table.
And that's just acquired throughrelationships and getting other
people to vouch for you online.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (11:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And to get more specific, thevouching for you online is.
What would be considered a back link.
Right, exactly.
Like another website of rep withgood reputation, sharing your content
and linking back to your website.
Yeah.
Um, I'm sure you've all gottenemails from people saying, Hey, can
we publish a blog on your website?
And, or like, will you add our links here?
So like, there's lots of strategiesthere, but, um, I love that.
(11:35):
And what I also love aboutsome of the, the things with
good, strong SEO is that it.
Is just what you shouldbe doing anyway, right?
You should be sharing authentic content.
You should be sharing withpeople why you're trustworthy.
That's how you're gonna get moredonations into, um, you should be building
relationships with other organizations.
People love collaborations.
(11:55):
It also shows donors and thepeople you serve that, um.
You are here for the long haul,that you're gonna do the right
thing, that you're trustworthy.
So like everythingyou're talking about Yes.
Is specific to the website, but isstuff that we should be just thinking
about big picture with everythingwe're doing in our organization?
Steven Schneider (12:12):
No, absolutely.
And that's kind of what I try toremind clients is that, you know,
nobody gets into business or starting anonprofit in order to finish the race,
so to speak, in six months or a year.
And so.
Anybody who's in a perspective ofwanting to make a change long term
(12:32):
in their industry or space is usuallyattached to some sort of mental timeline
that is in years, not weeks and days.
Mm-hmm.
And so developing that brand perspectiveand creating those connections and
those allies in your space shouldbe a natural part of just how you
do business overall, like you said.
And so I think that the moreit's ingrained in kind of.
(12:54):
A natural part of your ongoing strategy,the less it feels like it's this SEO
work and the more it just becomes like,Hey, I'm on this podcast talking about
X, Y, Z, like if you publish this on yoursite and link to our website in the show
notes, like that's a back link per se.
But it's not like I amdoing SEO strategy first.
(13:16):
Correct.
You know, it's a very kindof like do a, a good thing.
And that's kind of the reciprocal effect.
Of that outcome is how I look at it.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (13:24):
Yep.
You're here to pro provide value.
I love that.
Okay, so I know we're saying it'sgonna take a, you know, let's just say
it's gonna take us a year, which isactually a shorter timeline than what I
expected you to say, but that's great.
Um, but, uh, how do we know that we'reat least pushing the needle forward?
Like where do we get theinformation about how we're ranking?
(13:46):
Um, I know people search is all different.
So if I search, if I just go into Googleand search for a brand, it's gonna show
up differently for me than it's gonna showup for you based off location, based off
of search history, all that good stuff.
So how do we actually know thatwe're kind of pushing the needle
forward, um, in, in this process?
Steven Schneider (14:05):
Yeah, so I'll start by saying that if you are
an established website, likeyou can probably see results in.
90 days or, yeah, maybe six months.
So it's, it's much quicker.
And you can get all that data from GoogleSearch Console and Google Analytics.
They're free tools, um, straightfrom the source of Google.
And all you could do is implementa, um, a piece of code essentially
(14:26):
in your site, and it will just startcommunicating and give you all that
information so you can look at.
What keywords are actuallygenerating clicks to your site
and where those people are going.
Maybe it's two specific pages, et cetera.
How many impressions clicks, whatregions people are coming from,
whether they're on mobile or desktop.
And so a lot of information is free, butwhen it comes to keyword research and
(14:48):
trying to create a strategy first andthen set out to accomplish that strategy.
Tools like SEMrush, hres.
Mm-hmm.
Like those are top tier tools.
And so you can find that data inmaking, you know, a, a legitimate
strategy or use case for saying, Hey,we want to go after this keyword.
We want to connect with this sortof audience, and here's the type of
(15:10):
content that it takes to succeed,and this is what they're expecting
to get on the other side of that.
Mm-hmm.
So it's more or less trying tounderstand your ideal audience, first
and foremost, and then just meeting them.
Where they're looking at and how youcan kind of like, you know, outshine
your competitors in that same space.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (15:27):
Well, and I think this is a really hard thing for people to
understand too, is that like, when we'redoing our work, we use our own words.
Like we use our own jar jargonfor like what it is that we do.
So like we use terms, s se I'll useterms like SEO or whatever with my
clients and, and some of the membersin our membership and they get super
confused 'cause that's not what they're.
They're, they would be searchinglike, how do I rank higher in Google?
(15:50):
They're not gonna say,how would I do better?
SEO?
Right?
Right.
So I think the, the great part aboutthat research, uh, and maybe you can
lend some other tips, is it we have toremove ourselves from the situation.
And it's like, this is a problem we'resolving, but how do they talk about it?
I think that's a hard concept forpeople to grasp when it comes to
like, creating content that's gonnagenerate the traffic that you want.
(16:13):
'cause you know that, who thataudience is, but this is what they say.
They say this, not that.
You know?
Steven Schneider (16:18):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean, that's kind of the biggestpuzzle in my life, is trying to work
with clients and work in an industrythat I have zero knowledge about,
and then having to figure out all ofthose kind of nuances that go into it.
The nice part about it is though,if you're using those tools like
(16:39):
hres or SEMrush, they allow youto look at all of the associated
keywords on a given page, so.
The kind of the misconception thatis always nice to clear up is that
we think about keywords as being likea one-to-one relationship, but at
least as far as content is concerned.
But if you write a blog, ablog could actually rank for
(17:00):
a thousand different keywords.
And so those are all doors or entry pointsfor people to find you on your website.
And so what we can do is actuallygo and look at one of your
competitors' blogs and say.
Well, here's the primary keyword that isprobably the most opportunistic to target.
But there's actually 999 otherkeywords that are all synonyms of that.
(17:22):
Yeah.
Or other phrases or maybe FAQsthat people are asking and
arriving at that destination.
So that's kind of like where,what's the term called?
Secondary keywords comes into play.
Yeah.
And so you're trying to figure out,okay, here's the, the overarching topic.
What's everything that would fallinto that conversation that we want to
incorporate in that conversation as well?
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
Um.
Because I think when we're creatingcontent without having a goal
in mind, it, it gets tricky.
So we have to kind of understand whatthat conversion is and then how also,
I guess that would come into playyour secondary keywords with also
how we're getting a little bit moretechnical here, but how you are linking
(18:04):
your own content on your website.
So having a good knowledge of what,okay, these are the main key words
that we think are gonna perform for us.
These are the secondary ones.
So as we create.
Other pieces around that we cankind of also take our visitors
through that journey of gettingmore of the content that they need.
Um, that's very specific and value added.
Steven Schneider (18:23):
Yeah.
I, I don't wanna like, I don't thinkthat, um, I don't wanna complicate
things, but yeah, nine times outta10, if you just look at a competing
article and you just Google what youwanna rank for and say, Hey, I think
that it would make sense for us to.
Connect with people who are searchingfor this, and you just do the legwork
(18:44):
yourself as if you are that audience,and you go and look at a article and
say, oh, it's interesting that they'readding this keyword into where they're
heading or they're talking about this.
And like, yeah, just reverseengineer that process.
Don't overthink it.
And then create a piece of contentyourself that is clear, concise,
written in a conversational tone.
(19:05):
Act as if you're almost having aconversation with somebody on the
other side of it and you're nottrying to write it for a robot.
And yeah, everything works out.
Like it's not, there's a lot of technical
hoops to jump through mm-hmm.
Per se.
Mm-hmm.
But you can get really far withouthaving to worry about that.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (19:25):
Yeah.
No, that's good.
And I think what also always surprisesme is when I go look at my analytics,
some of the content that I write.
That I think is like killerand everybody's gonna love it.
And then you go to your analytics andlike it's not ranking, but then something
that you didn't necessarily think wasamazing might be ranking really high.
And so I think also paying attentionto the content, like your own
(19:48):
individual analytics and see whatpeople are consuming and do more
of that regardless of if you thinkthat's like the most impactful.
Thing.
'cause you want to get people thereand then move them through, but if
you don't get 'em there, then theycan't get there in the first place.
So, um, like both sides of that coinare important for your strategy as
you're kind of creating that contentthat's gonna fuel, I mean, obviously
(20:10):
everything still needs to be authentic.
You're not, but um, like how oftenare you, how often are you popping in?
To your analytics for those content ideas?
Like how often are you managing that?
Uh, I'm assuming quite often,but I think most people don't get
into their analytics very often.
Steven Schneider (20:29):
Yeah, I, I mean, if you're not someone like me who's a big
data nerd, and this is all I do in myfree time, yeah, you could probably
check it once a month and be mm-hmm.
Totally content.
I think the more important thingthough is that you are doing a little
bit of upfront research to mm-hmm.
Create content mindfully, because themost common pitfall that I see that
(20:51):
is like the easiest thing to avoid is.
Writing a blog because you think it'sa good topic and then kinda like what
you said it doesn't perform and it'sbecause no one's actually searching
for that and you're just kind ofgoing off a gut feeling and vibe.
Where had you done, you know, a littlebit of research to know that like, oh.
Interesting.
It's, I didn't expect people toactually be asking about this.
(21:13):
And then you just go after that,you're like, oh, this article's
blowing up now because mm-hmm.
300 people per monthare searching for this.
And so yeah, knowing where that storyis being told and where demand is, just
avoids so many, um, wasted efforts.
Yeah.
On everyone's end, it's so, so important.
(21:33):
'cause it also leaves a badtaste in your mouth from SEO.
It's like, what?
I wrote a hundred blogsand nothing happened.
It's like, yeah, but nobody waslooking for those a hundred topics.
So
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (21:43):
I think we often feel the same about
social media too, and Oh yeah.
You know, the algorithms like, youknow, content you're sharing and what
you think is gonna hit and what's notgonna hit, and then you feel like you're
putting your effort in for nothing.
But I think to your point, totally,that that foundational piece, and then
having the patients, like you said atthe beginning, to trust the process.
Um, how important is consistencyin this space currently?
(22:06):
Like, how often do we need to beadding new things to our website?
Um, in order to continue to buildthat trust and that, uh, authority,
Steven Schneider (22:16):
I would say have some sort of content strategy that allows you
to publish something on a routine basisevery month, whether that be one blog
or five blogs, whatever that looks like.
If you're a. Nonprofit who works ina local space, like maybe you are,
um, you know, wanting to show up andconnect with a local audience instead
(22:36):
of more of a national online audience.
Mm-hmm.
You should almost be treating yourbusiness profile like your Google
business profile as a social media tool.
'cause that's gonna havemore of an influence over.
Your SEO locally, then your website will.
And so, yeah, you know, like if you havelike you can add blog or content updates
in your Google business profile, andmost people don't know how to do that.
(22:58):
Very easy to do other thingswould be adding new photos.
So if you host an event over theweekend, take a couple photos,
upload them to your Google Businessprofile as like an update or.
Look what we did with ourcommunity sort of thing.
And like that just kind of showsGoogle that, hey, you're alive
and well and that you're active.
And so, yeah, that kind of, youknow, spark will just make your
(23:21):
profile come to life and put youhigher, more visibility wise.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (23:25):
Yeah, because Google's kind of entering the same game
as all of the social media platformsand that the longer they can keep you.
In the Google search interface, right?
The more ad revenue they can generate.
And so a lot of the features thatyou see there now with the AI
results and all the interactivepieces are meant to keep you there.
So I, that's a great tip to include orto have a robust Google business profile.
(23:49):
But is that something that can, canalso be helpful for an if you have
a national base or is that somethingthat really just only local businesses
would want to invest time in?
Steven Schneider (23:59):
I think it's probably only beneficial for local only
because the, um, the national presenceis gonna have more opportunistic
keywords to target from that sense.
Hmm.
Like, you know, there's gonna be servicepages or product pages or industry
pages that you can create that have muchhigher intent for people to take action.
Um, whereas if it's a local thing,it's usually people who are looking
(24:21):
to get like information around.
An event on a weekend.
Mm-hmm.
Or you know, a where they can goand donate their time or whatever.
That kind of like in-person thingis at that given time and date
versus how do I research this thingthat I'm thinking about doing.
Two months from now.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (24:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
So now that we've been doing, uh, SEOfor a little bit, um, and we're adding
content, we're starting to see tractionand activity, we're being consistent
with at least one piece of content.
Um, like what does it take then?
Moving forward, like is that it?
Like we just need tocontinue to stay consistent.
(25:01):
Um, because the other thing thatI'll hear from people is, well,
I was ranking and now I'm not.
What are they doing?
Or what did I do wrong?
Like, how do we kind of continue tonavigate the shifting of all of that,
um, once we've kind of already startedto get our website ranking and up there.
Steven Schneider (25:14):
Yeah.
So a huge part of that processcomes down to the user experience
and what is the experience on page.
Visitors are met with once they land onyour site, and so if your website was
built in 2005 and hasn't been updatedin 15 years, yeah, my guess is that it's
probably time to update your website.
(25:36):
The other thing would be, you know, if youare sending them to a landing page that
doesn't have a lot of trust on it, thenmm-hmm There's probably another reason
that they're leaving and going elsewhereto get their information or needs met.
If they're going to your blog andmaybe you don't have an author bio
and a picture of your team and whowrote it, and a little bit about their
(25:56):
expertise and why they can speak onthis topic, knowledgeably, there may
be a disconnect in them, not fullytrusting what you have to offer there.
So all of those little nuances thatwe don't typically think about, but.
We also really think about it ifwe go to someone else's website
(26:16):
and do the same exact thing.
Yeah.
And in reverse, that's exactly how yourvisitors are kind of taking all that into
consideration and that's what determineswhether they're gonna take action or not.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (26:26):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, and I think also not havingan action for people to take Right.
Sometimes, like something as simpleas that, we forget to put on there.
Um, 'cause we think they're just gonnaread our content and fall in love with it.
And then.
Steven Schneider (26:41):
That's it.
That's easy.
Still know what to do.
Yeah know, right?
Yeah.
If,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (26:43):
if only, um, okay.
And so I guess the last thing that Ikind of want to touch on is, you know,
yes we're doing these blog pieces orcontent adding, um, for organic search,
but we don't want to just trust theprocess of that and just not promote it.
Like does promoting that contentin other places also help?
(27:06):
Kind of drive increased SEO for that.
I mean, we don't just wannaput some, we put work into it.
Right?
You don't just assumeeverybody's gonna come to it.
So sharing it in your email, sharing iton social media, all of those things,
um, is helpful to get it out there.
But does that also thenhelp give SEO visibility?
Steven Schneider (27:20):
Yeah, it's a, it's a marginal boost, I would
say, relative to all the otherthings that you could be doing.
But it's definitely beneficialto an ongoing strategy and just
making sure that, you know,if your audience is living in.
Um, LinkedIn primarily.
Mm-hmm.
Like there's no reason that you can'ttake a blog article, repurpose it.
Don't just copy and paste it word forword, but offer a summarized version of
(27:45):
that with a link to read more on yourwebsite, and then potentially a lead
magnet or some action to take from thereand out and work them through a funnel.
But yes, the more you can beactive on social media, the more
you can be active in a newsletter.
If you have a YouTube channel, likeall these other things that kind of
feed off each other will definitelycontribute long-term towards your success.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (28:05):
Love that.
Um, okay, well as we wrap thisup, Steven, is there any kind of
last words of wisdom, motivation?
I mean, I feel like if you'relistening to this, you might
just kind of be like, okay, well.
Why would I do this as a strategy?
It's gonna take too longand I need results now.
But trust, trust, Steven.
Trust us.
It works.
Um, yeah.
But any kind of last words of wisdomyou'd like to leave listeners?
Steven Schneider (28:28):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I always like to
try and convey is that, um, your PVCstrategy is gonna be very similar to
you getting a paycheck every month.
You know, it's kind of like that quick.
Quick term need solution.
Whereas your SEO is almost likeyou investing in your retirement
account at the end of the day.
Like, you know, it's something thatyou just need to do because you're
(28:51):
gonna look back and be like, dang it, Iwish I would've done this so long ago.
Yeah.
But I'm so happy that I did it.
And so if you're doing that personallyin your own life and you know that it's
just the responsible thing to do, that'skind of how you should be thinking about a
PBC strategy and an SEO strategy because.
When you look back in five years and yousee all your competitors who are crushing
(29:12):
it on Google, you know, especially asthings start to rank in chat GBT, and
that becomes a really dominant searchengine over the next couple years,
you're gonna look back, same thing,and I wish I would've started sooner.
So playing that slow patient game ishard to bear through, but it's very,
very positive at the end of the road.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (29:32):
Yep.
So good.
Well, Steven, thanks for your timeand sharing all of these strategies.
Um, many that you all can implement.
Now they aren't, you know, crazy.
Um, but Steven, if people wannaconnect with you and learn more
about you, how do they do that?
Steven Schneider (29:46):
Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm super active there.
I post daily content.
You can also google trio,S-E-O-T-R-I-O-S-E o.com, plus
my name or one or the other.
I always joke that if you can't findme on Google, I'm doing my job wrong,
so you should be able to track me down.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (30:03):
That's true.
I love that.
Well, and we'll link everything up,including all of the different tools and
resources that, um, so you can mentionin the show notes@thefirstclick.net
slash 3 1 3, so three 13.
Um, but Steven, thank youso much for your time today.
Steven Schneider (30:18):
Thank you.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (30:20):
Wow.
Okay.
So many good things to takeaway from this episode.
Um, but really just love the focus onauthenticity and building trust, and
how are we doing that in the digitalspace and in person, all of that user
experience, how our customers engagewith us, how our donors engage with us.
You, I hope, starting to see that there'sa familiar thread that kind of gets
(30:41):
woven through all of our strategies,and that is the more you just show
up authentically for your people,connect with the right people, add
value, the more you're going to havelong-term growth and sustainability.
And SEO is no different, so.
Have any questions aboutit, feel free to reach out.
Hello, at the first click.net.
I'd love to hear your key takeaway.
If you're watching this onYouTube or if you have any
(31:03):
questions, let us know there too.
Um, but make sure yousubscribe wherever you listen.
We're here every Tuesday with greattopics around digital marketing, your
website, fundraising, all of the things.
I'm here for you.
So, uh, again, grab the shownotes@thefirstclick.net slash three
13 and we'll see you in the next one.
You can't convert people on your website if
you don't get them to your website.
And search engine optimization, orSEO is one of the ways that you can
increase traffic to your website, getmore people consuming the content,
building trust, engaging with you,taking an action, whether that be,
make a donation, whether that be signup for your newsletter, um, you know,
(00:23):
buy a ticket, whatever it might be.
So that is what we were talkingabout today, some really
foundational ways to think aboutyour SEO strategy for beginners.
So there's not a whole lot of crazytech things in this episode, but so much
good stuff as far as what you need to doto lay the groundwork, how you can pay
attention to what works, what's working,and what's not, and how SEO can really lay
(00:44):
the groundwork for your long term growth.
You're here for the long haul,so let's put strategies in place
that are gonna help you get there.
And to have this conversation, we arejoined by my guest, Steven Schneider.
Steven is the co-founder and CEO ofTrio, SEO, an agency that helps B2B
brands design and implement ROI focusedSEO strategies Before Trio, SEO, he
(01:06):
co-owned a portfolio of 40 blogs,managed 400 articles monthly and scaled
to seven figures via SEO, no paid ads,social media, or other strategies.
Today, trio, SEO creates contentthat converts browsers into buyers.
Their team manages everything.
The process is a hundred percenthands off for the founders and CMOs.
So he's got some greatstrategies to share with you.
(01:29):
You're gonna love it.
I know you are.
And it will help you also understandkind of maybe what questions you wanna
ask or how you should engage, um, withpeople that are helping you do this work.
So let's jump into it before we do it isbrought to you by, uh, do good university.
Dugood University is a membership thatI'm so excited to be invited into.
(01:54):
Um, it is a community of smallto medium sized nonprofits who
are just trying to do the thing.
It's full of on-demand contentfrom everything from grant writing
to marketing, to fundraising,board governance, productivity,
hr, all of the things.
And you can watch anythinglive whenever you want, but.
Patrick Kirby, the founderand I go live every single
(02:17):
week to answer your questions.
You can come hang out with us, see whatother nonprofits are struggling with,
um, hear some solutions and ways thatwe're helping them through fundraising
and marketing, and really just be arounda community of people that are doing
what you're doing every single day.
Um, you can learn more and get two weeksfree@thefirstclick.net slash dge letter u,
(02:39):
but I hope you'll join us and I can't waitto see you soon on one of our live calls.
Let's get into the episode.
You're listening to the DigitalMarketing Therapy Podcast.
I'm your host, Sammy Del Mulhern.
Each month we dive deep into a digitalmarketing or fundraising strategy that
you can implement in your organization.
Each week you'll hear from guestexperts, nonprofits, and myself on
(03:03):
best practices, tips and resourcesto help you raise more money online
and reach your organizational goals.
Hey friends, please join me in welcomingSteven Schneider to the podcast.
Steven, thanks for being here today.
Steven Schneider (03:16):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (03:18):
Yeah, well, we're talking SEO or search engine optimization.
Um, it is one of the acronyms thatI have learned that while it's like
in my vernacular all the time, itis not in everyone's vernacular.
So, um, we haven't talked about it in awhile, so I'm excited to have you here.
Um, but before we kind of jump intosome strategies and some topics.
Like why SEO for you, why is thisa, a strategy that you think is
(03:41):
important for, uh, nonprofits tohave in their, in their toolbox?
Steven Schneider (03:45):
Yeah.
I, I can only speak from my own experienceand I think that the reason that SEO
was such a, like aha moment for me wasthat I was in college and trying to
figure out what to do with my life.
And like many people, I didn'treally have a path in mind.
It was just kind of stay in school untilI get my graduate and I get my master's
and then like, I'll figure it out by then.
(04:07):
And thankfully my friend and soonto be a mentor at that time showed
me that he was making money onlinepassively through free traffic.
And as a result of that, he wasable to use SEO and leverage Google
in such a way that just broughttraffic consistently day after day.
And it started to compound fromthat kind of side of things.
(04:29):
And so.
I just quickly realized howmuch leverage came with SEO.
It's like if you do a lot of the upfrontwork and you're willing to pay the play,
the patience game, and you're willingto just kind of like, you know, sit
on your hands for a little bit, do thebasic principles, like more of the easier
stuff, like it's this snowballing casketeffect that just brings customers to
(04:50):
your site without you even paying for it.
Like from a paid ads perspective.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (04:54):
Um, I love this so much because like, that's
definitely how we approach our marketingstrategies holistically for our clients.
And here on the podcast is it'slike slow and steady wins the race.
Like you're not here justto make a quick buck.
And if you are, those strategies you'reusing are going to stop working just
as quickly as they start working.
Um, and you're just gonnaplay that catch up game.
So I love that you're, you know,you're saying this is a long
(05:17):
game that we're playing here, butevery little thing that you do.
Eventually is gonna steamroll.
So I think that's really important forus to understand that we're building
foundational things here that aregonna work for a long time as opposed
to trying to do a bunch of things thatmight not work, uh, for a long time.
So we're on the same page there for sure.
(05:39):
Um, so before we kind of touchon a few things, I wanted to, um.
Just ask you like, could you maybeshare some definitions like, you know,
organic traffic versus direct traffic?
Like, just so we can kind ofunderstand when we're working on these
strategies, what that, what that isdoing for our, our website traffic.
Steven Schneider (05:58):
Yeah, for sure.
So direct traffic would be anybodythat types in your, um, your brand or
your direct name into the search bar.
It just goes immediately to your website.
So easy example is like if you aregoing to Amazon and you're just
typing amazon.com in your search bar,like that's a direct traffic source.
The alternate to that would be organic,where if you're searching for the
(06:20):
product, maybe it's like, um, maybeyou're looking for like a new pair of
hiking shoes and you're typing like.
Hiking shoes for men size 10.
And when you throw that into Google,you then be directed to an organic
or a more natural placement thatthen would take you to Amazon.
So it's those, those results thatappear on the first page of Google
(06:42):
that you see that don't have thelittle sponsored kind of tag.
Mm-hmm.
Next to it, which would be a PPC play.
So these are what we callorganic showcasing of.
Or ranks or rankings based onkeywords and the keywords you type
and how those two kind of connect.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (06:58):
Yeah.
Well, and I wanna say too, likesearch is, and your website
traffic is a numbers game, right?
Like the more people you havecoming to your site, the more likely
you're gonna have those conversions.
Now it's not as simple as that.
Your website obviously has to have theright setup in order to convert customers
or, or visitors once they're there.
But, um, and we're not gonna talk alot about the Google Ad Grant, but I
do always mention it whenever I can.
(07:19):
'cause most people don'tknow that it exists.
Truly.
And um, as a nonprofit, you have anability to have that top placement much
faster with less money because you get$10,000 for free from from Google Ads.
Now there's work that goes into it.
We were talking about this before that we,both Steven and I, do not do PPC paid ads.
Um, so.
(07:40):
It is a whole nother thing thatyou have to learn, but just it
does give you that top placement.
Um, and you have that advantagethat other businesses don't have.
So just keep that in mind.
There's other podcast episodes we'lllink up that can talk more about that,
but it is part of this overall strategy.
So without getting too much into theweeds, could you maybe just talk a
little bit about how you see like apaid approach working in conjunction
(08:02):
with organic traffic or like whattypes of things we might wanna think
about from the website side of things?
Steven Schneider (08:07):
Yeah, so the main thing is kind of like the, um, the PPC play or
the paid ads approach is going to be your,your short term quick result strategy.
You're obviously paying for aspot in Google that's even higher
than organic search, like PPC.
You get the immediate top thing andthen organic is displayed below that.
So you're paying and trying to competeagainst others in your space, and
(08:31):
that's gonna come with a much quickerROI or return on your investment for.
The keywords that you're bidding on.
Uh, whereas with the SEO play,it's a much longer, more delayed.
I always say it's like the,the biggest game of delayed
gratification that that ever existed.
But the benefit to that is it's free todo, you know, you can presumably create
(08:53):
content on your site, optimize your site,all of these kind of DIY things that
allow you to capture or work toward a topspot for a given keyword without pain.
For every single click or bid inthat space, like once you've secure
a top spot, you could easily livethere for months without even
changing anything on your site.
So it's a really, really advantageousplay that if you just work toward it and
(09:18):
you kind of are patient, you kind of cancapture a lot of that traffic for free.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (09:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
So when we talk patient.
This is the question I get allthe time when we build a website.
Well, when will I rank onthe first page of Google?
And I know you don't havethe magic answer, but what
are we looking at right now?
Um, 'cause I know the timelineand I know there's a lot of things
that come into play, but what arewe talking about with patients?
Like how long are we reallygonna have to kind of wait?
(09:43):
And what types of things mightwe have to do in order to make
sure we're continuing to build.
Up higher in those rankings.
Steven Schneider (09:51):
Yeah, so if you build a website from scratch, say
you go to WordPress or Squarespacetomorrow and click publish, you
actually are what's, you're inthis thing called Google Sandbox.
It's kind of like this protectedarea based on Google's ranking
parameters, where you have to gainthe trust and time in order to even
start getting that SEO traffic.
(10:12):
So.
Brand new sites, I would expectanywhere from six to nine months
depending on how well optimized it is.
Like if you are a top SEO, you canprobably get a ranking in six months.
If you're very new to that world,I would expect nine to 12 months.
Yeah, very realistically.
Um, the big thing that really determineshow quickly you can rank based on what
(10:34):
you're doing to your website is thedomain age, like how old your website is.
So if you're a. You know, 20-year-old,30-year-old nonprofit, you have
much more credibility in your spaceand much more trust with Google.
And so changing something on yoursite is gonna be quickly picked up
on and easily shown, uh, to others.
And then the other thing too is justhow much authority you have in your
(10:56):
space relative to your competitors.
And so.
When I say authority, the bestthing to think about is like
how much, um, you know, trust orexpertise you bring to the table.
And that's just acquired throughrelationships and getting other
people to vouch for you online.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (11:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And to get more specific, thevouching for you online is.
What would be considered a back link.
Right, exactly.
Like another website of rep withgood reputation, sharing your content
and linking back to your website.
Yeah.
Um, I'm sure you've all gottenemails from people saying, Hey, can
we publish a blog on your website?
And, or like, will you add our links here?
So like, there's lots of strategiesthere, but, um, I love that.
(11:35):
And what I also love aboutsome of the, the things with
good, strong SEO is that it.
Is just what you shouldbe doing anyway, right?
You should be sharing authentic content.
You should be sharing withpeople why you're trustworthy.
That's how you're gonna get moredonations into, um, you should be building
relationships with other organizations.
People love collaborations.
(11:55):
It also shows donors and thepeople you serve that, um.
You are here for the long haul,that you're gonna do the right
thing, that you're trustworthy.
So like everythingyou're talking about Yes.
Is specific to the website, but isstuff that we should be just thinking
about big picture with everythingwe're doing in our organization?
Steven Schneider (12:12):
No, absolutely.
And that's kind of what I try toremind clients is that, you know,
nobody gets into business or starting anonprofit in order to finish the race,
so to speak, in six months or a year.
And so.
Anybody who's in a perspective ofwanting to make a change long term
(12:32):
in their industry or space is usuallyattached to some sort of mental timeline
that is in years, not weeks and days.
Mm-hmm.
And so developing that brand perspectiveand creating those connections and
those allies in your space shouldbe a natural part of just how you
do business overall, like you said.
And so I think that the moreit's ingrained in kind of.
(12:54):
A natural part of your ongoing strategy,the less it feels like it's this SEO
work and the more it just becomes like,Hey, I'm on this podcast talking about
X, Y, Z, like if you publish this on yoursite and link to our website in the show
notes, like that's a back link per se.
But it's not like I amdoing SEO strategy first.
(13:16):
Correct.
You know, it's a very kindof like do a, a good thing.
And that's kind of the reciprocal effect.
Of that outcome is how I look at it.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (13:24):
Yep.
You're here to pro provide value.
I love that.
Okay, so I know we're saying it'sgonna take a, you know, let's just say
it's gonna take us a year, which isactually a shorter timeline than what I
expected you to say, but that's great.
Um, but, uh, how do we know that we'reat least pushing the needle forward?
Like where do we get theinformation about how we're ranking?
(13:46):
Um, I know people search is all different.
So if I search, if I just go into Googleand search for a brand, it's gonna show
up differently for me than it's gonna showup for you based off location, based off
of search history, all that good stuff.
So how do we actually know thatwe're kind of pushing the needle
forward, um, in, in this process?
Steven Schneider (14:05):
Yeah, so I'll start by saying that if you are
an established website, likeyou can probably see results in.
90 days or, yeah, maybe six months.
So it's, it's much quicker.
And you can get all that data from GoogleSearch Console and Google Analytics.
They're free tools, um, straightfrom the source of Google.
And all you could do is implementa, um, a piece of code essentially
(14:26):
in your site, and it will just startcommunicating and give you all that
information so you can look at.
What keywords are actuallygenerating clicks to your site
and where those people are going.
Maybe it's two specific pages, et cetera.
How many impressions clicks, whatregions people are coming from,
whether they're on mobile or desktop.
And so a lot of information is free, butwhen it comes to keyword research and
(14:48):
trying to create a strategy first andthen set out to accomplish that strategy.
Tools like SEMrush, hres.
Mm-hmm.
Like those are top tier tools.
And so you can find that data inmaking, you know, a, a legitimate
strategy or use case for saying, Hey,we want to go after this keyword.
We want to connect with this sortof audience, and here's the type of
(15:10):
content that it takes to succeed,and this is what they're expecting
to get on the other side of that.
Mm-hmm.
So it's more or less trying tounderstand your ideal audience, first
and foremost, and then just meeting them.
Where they're looking at and how youcan kind of like, you know, outshine
your competitors in that same space.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (15:27):
Well, and I think this is a really hard thing for people to
understand too, is that like, when we'redoing our work, we use our own words.
Like we use our own jar jargonfor like what it is that we do.
So like we use terms, s se I'll useterms like SEO or whatever with my
clients and, and some of the membersin our membership and they get super
confused 'cause that's not what they're.
They're, they would be searchinglike, how do I rank higher in Google?
(15:50):
They're not gonna say,how would I do better?
SEO?
Right?
Right.
So I think the, the great part aboutthat research, uh, and maybe you can
lend some other tips, is it we have toremove ourselves from the situation.
And it's like, this is a problem we'resolving, but how do they talk about it?
I think that's a hard concept forpeople to grasp when it comes to
like, creating content that's gonnagenerate the traffic that you want.
(16:13):
'cause you know that, who thataudience is, but this is what they say.
They say this, not that.
You know?
Steven Schneider (16:18):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean, that's kind of the biggestpuzzle in my life, is trying to work
with clients and work in an industrythat I have zero knowledge about,
and then having to figure out all ofthose kind of nuances that go into it.
The nice part about it is though,if you're using those tools like
(16:39):
hres or SEMrush, they allow youto look at all of the associated
keywords on a given page, so.
The kind of the misconception thatis always nice to clear up is that
we think about keywords as being likea one-to-one relationship, but at
least as far as content is concerned.
But if you write a blog, ablog could actually rank for
(17:00):
a thousand different keywords.
And so those are all doors or entry pointsfor people to find you on your website.
And so what we can do is actuallygo and look at one of your
competitors' blogs and say.
Well, here's the primary keyword that isprobably the most opportunistic to target.
But there's actually 999 otherkeywords that are all synonyms of that.
(17:22):
Yeah.
Or other phrases or maybe FAQsthat people are asking and
arriving at that destination.
So that's kind of like where,what's the term called?
Secondary keywords comes into play.
Yeah.
And so you're trying to figure out,okay, here's the, the overarching topic.
What's everything that would fallinto that conversation that we want to
incorporate in that conversation as well?
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
Um.
Because I think when we're creatingcontent without having a goal
in mind, it, it gets tricky.
So we have to kind of understand whatthat conversion is and then how also,
I guess that would come into playyour secondary keywords with also
how we're getting a little bit moretechnical here, but how you are linking
(18:04):
your own content on your website.
So having a good knowledge of what,okay, these are the main key words
that we think are gonna perform for us.
These are the secondary ones.
So as we create.
Other pieces around that we cankind of also take our visitors
through that journey of gettingmore of the content that they need.
Um, that's very specific and value added.
Steven Schneider (18:23):
Yeah.
I, I don't wanna like, I don't thinkthat, um, I don't wanna complicate
things, but yeah, nine times outta10, if you just look at a competing
article and you just Google what youwanna rank for and say, Hey, I think
that it would make sense for us to.
Connect with people who are searchingfor this, and you just do the legwork
(18:44):
yourself as if you are that audience,and you go and look at a article and
say, oh, it's interesting that they'readding this keyword into where they're
heading or they're talking about this.
And like, yeah, just reverseengineer that process.
Don't overthink it.
And then create a piece of contentyourself that is clear, concise,
written in a conversational tone.
(19:05):
Act as if you're almost having aconversation with somebody on the
other side of it and you're nottrying to write it for a robot.
And yeah, everything works out.
Like it's not, there's a lot of technical
hoops to jump through mm-hmm.
Per se.
Mm-hmm.
But you can get really far withouthaving to worry about that.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (19:25):
Yeah.
No, that's good.
And I think what also always surprisesme is when I go look at my analytics,
some of the content that I write.
That I think is like killerand everybody's gonna love it.
And then you go to your analytics andlike it's not ranking, but then something
that you didn't necessarily think wasamazing might be ranking really high.
And so I think also paying attentionto the content, like your own
(19:48):
individual analytics and see whatpeople are consuming and do more
of that regardless of if you thinkthat's like the most impactful.
Thing.
'cause you want to get people thereand then move them through, but if
you don't get 'em there, then theycan't get there in the first place.
So, um, like both sides of that coinare important for your strategy as
you're kind of creating that contentthat's gonna fuel, I mean, obviously
(20:10):
everything still needs to be authentic.
You're not, but um, like how oftenare you, how often are you popping in?
To your analytics for those content ideas?
Like how often are you managing that?
Uh, I'm assuming quite often,but I think most people don't get
into their analytics very often.
Steven Schneider (20:29):
Yeah, I, I mean, if you're not someone like me who's a big
data nerd, and this is all I do in myfree time, yeah, you could probably
check it once a month and be mm-hmm.
Totally content.
I think the more important thingthough is that you are doing a little
bit of upfront research to mm-hmm.
Create content mindfully, because themost common pitfall that I see that
(20:51):
is like the easiest thing to avoid is.
Writing a blog because you think it'sa good topic and then kinda like what
you said it doesn't perform and it'sbecause no one's actually searching
for that and you're just kind ofgoing off a gut feeling and vibe.
Where had you done, you know, a littlebit of research to know that like, oh.
Interesting.
It's, I didn't expect people toactually be asking about this.
(21:13):
And then you just go after that,you're like, oh, this article's
blowing up now because mm-hmm.
300 people per monthare searching for this.
And so yeah, knowing where that storyis being told and where demand is, just
avoids so many, um, wasted efforts.
Yeah.
On everyone's end, it's so, so important.
(21:33):
'cause it also leaves a badtaste in your mouth from SEO.
It's like, what?
I wrote a hundred blogsand nothing happened.
It's like, yeah, but nobody waslooking for those a hundred topics.
So
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (21:43):
I think we often feel the same about
social media too, and Oh yeah.
You know, the algorithms like, youknow, content you're sharing and what
you think is gonna hit and what's notgonna hit, and then you feel like you're
putting your effort in for nothing.
But I think to your point, totally,that that foundational piece, and then
having the patients, like you said atthe beginning, to trust the process.
Um, how important is consistencyin this space currently?
(22:06):
Like, how often do we need to beadding new things to our website?
Um, in order to continue to buildthat trust and that, uh, authority,
Steven Schneider (22:16):
I would say have some sort of content strategy that allows you
to publish something on a routine basisevery month, whether that be one blog
or five blogs, whatever that looks like.
If you're a. Nonprofit who works ina local space, like maybe you are,
um, you know, wanting to show up andconnect with a local audience instead
(22:36):
of more of a national online audience.
Mm-hmm.
You should almost be treating yourbusiness profile like your Google
business profile as a social media tool.
'cause that's gonna havemore of an influence over.
Your SEO locally, then your website will.
And so, yeah, you know, like if you havelike you can add blog or content updates
in your Google business profile, andmost people don't know how to do that.
(22:58):
Very easy to do other thingswould be adding new photos.
So if you host an event over theweekend, take a couple photos,
upload them to your Google Businessprofile as like an update or.
Look what we did with ourcommunity sort of thing.
And like that just kind of showsGoogle that, hey, you're alive
and well and that you're active.
And so, yeah, that kind of, youknow, spark will just make your
(23:21):
profile come to life and put youhigher, more visibility wise.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (23:25):
Yeah, because Google's kind of entering the same game
as all of the social media platformsand that the longer they can keep you.
In the Google search interface, right?
The more ad revenue they can generate.
And so a lot of the features thatyou see there now with the AI
results and all the interactivepieces are meant to keep you there.
So I, that's a great tip to include orto have a robust Google business profile.
(23:49):
But is that something that can, canalso be helpful for an if you have
a national base or is that somethingthat really just only local businesses
would want to invest time in?
Steven Schneider (23:59):
I think it's probably only beneficial for local only
because the, um, the national presenceis gonna have more opportunistic
keywords to target from that sense.
Hmm.
Like, you know, there's gonna be servicepages or product pages or industry
pages that you can create that have muchhigher intent for people to take action.
Um, whereas if it's a local thing,it's usually people who are looking
(24:21):
to get like information around.
An event on a weekend.
Mm-hmm.
Or you know, a where they can goand donate their time or whatever.
That kind of like in-person thingis at that given time and date
versus how do I research this thingthat I'm thinking about doing.
Two months from now.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (24:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
So now that we've been doing, uh, SEOfor a little bit, um, and we're adding
content, we're starting to see tractionand activity, we're being consistent
with at least one piece of content.
Um, like what does it take then?
Moving forward, like is that it?
Like we just need tocontinue to stay consistent.
(25:01):
Um, because the other thing thatI'll hear from people is, well,
I was ranking and now I'm not.
What are they doing?
Or what did I do wrong?
Like, how do we kind of continue tonavigate the shifting of all of that,
um, once we've kind of already startedto get our website ranking and up there.
Steven Schneider (25:14):
Yeah.
So a huge part of that processcomes down to the user experience
and what is the experience on page.
Visitors are met with once they land onyour site, and so if your website was
built in 2005 and hasn't been updatedin 15 years, yeah, my guess is that it's
probably time to update your website.
(25:36):
The other thing would be, you know, if youare sending them to a landing page that
doesn't have a lot of trust on it, thenmm-hmm There's probably another reason
that they're leaving and going elsewhereto get their information or needs met.
If they're going to your blog andmaybe you don't have an author bio
and a picture of your team and whowrote it, and a little bit about their
(25:56):
expertise and why they can speak onthis topic, knowledgeably, there may
be a disconnect in them, not fullytrusting what you have to offer there.
So all of those little nuances thatwe don't typically think about, but.
We also really think about it ifwe go to someone else's website
(26:16):
and do the same exact thing.
Yeah.
And in reverse, that's exactly how yourvisitors are kind of taking all that into
consideration and that's what determineswhether they're gonna take action or not.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (26:26):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, and I think also not havingan action for people to take Right.
Sometimes, like something as simpleas that, we forget to put on there.
Um, 'cause we think they're just gonnaread our content and fall in love with it.
And then.
Steven Schneider (26:41):
That's it.
That's easy.
Still know what to do.
Yeah know, right?
Yeah.
If,
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (26:43):
if only, um, okay.
And so I guess the last thing that Ikind of want to touch on is, you know,
yes we're doing these blog pieces orcontent adding, um, for organic search,
but we don't want to just trust theprocess of that and just not promote it.
Like does promoting that contentin other places also help?
(27:06):
Kind of drive increased SEO for that.
I mean, we don't just wannaput some, we put work into it.
Right?
You don't just assumeeverybody's gonna come to it.
So sharing it in your email, sharing iton social media, all of those things,
um, is helpful to get it out there.
But does that also thenhelp give SEO visibility?
Steven Schneider (27:20):
Yeah, it's a, it's a marginal boost, I would
say, relative to all the otherthings that you could be doing.
But it's definitely beneficialto an ongoing strategy and just
making sure that, you know,if your audience is living in.
Um, LinkedIn primarily.
Mm-hmm.
Like there's no reason that you can'ttake a blog article, repurpose it.
Don't just copy and paste it word forword, but offer a summarized version of
(27:45):
that with a link to read more on yourwebsite, and then potentially a lead
magnet or some action to take from thereand out and work them through a funnel.
But yes, the more you can beactive on social media, the more
you can be active in a newsletter.
If you have a YouTube channel, likeall these other things that kind of
feed off each other will definitelycontribute long-term towards your success.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (28:05):
Love that.
Um, okay, well as we wrap thisup, Steven, is there any kind of
last words of wisdom, motivation?
I mean, I feel like if you'relistening to this, you might
just kind of be like, okay, well.
Why would I do this as a strategy?
It's gonna take too longand I need results now.
But trust, trust, Steven.
Trust us.
It works.
Um, yeah.
But any kind of last words of wisdomyou'd like to leave listeners?
Steven Schneider (28:28):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I always like to
try and convey is that, um, your PVCstrategy is gonna be very similar to
you getting a paycheck every month.
You know, it's kind of like that quick.
Quick term need solution.
Whereas your SEO is almost likeyou investing in your retirement
account at the end of the day.
Like, you know, it's something thatyou just need to do because you're
(28:51):
gonna look back and be like, dang it, Iwish I would've done this so long ago.
Yeah.
But I'm so happy that I did it.
And so if you're doing that personallyin your own life and you know that it's
just the responsible thing to do, that'skind of how you should be thinking about a
PBC strategy and an SEO strategy because.
When you look back in five years and yousee all your competitors who are crushing
(29:12):
it on Google, you know, especially asthings start to rank in chat GBT, and
that becomes a really dominant searchengine over the next couple years,
you're gonna look back, same thing,and I wish I would've started sooner.
So playing that slow patient game ishard to bear through, but it's very,
very positive at the end of the road.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (29:32):
Yep.
So good.
Well, Steven, thanks for your timeand sharing all of these strategies.
Um, many that you all can implement.
Now they aren't, you know, crazy.
Um, but Steven, if people wannaconnect with you and learn more
about you, how do they do that?
Steven Schneider (29:46):
Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm super active there.
I post daily content.
You can also google trio,S-E-O-T-R-I-O-S-E o.com, plus
my name or one or the other.
I always joke that if you can't findme on Google, I'm doing my job wrong,
so you should be able to track me down.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (30:03):
That's true.
I love that.
Well, and we'll link everything up,including all of the different tools and
resources that, um, so you can mentionin the show notes@thefirstclick.net
slash 3 1 3, so three 13.
Um, but Steven, thank youso much for your time today.
Steven Schneider (30:18):
Thank you.
Sami Bedell-Mulhern (30:20):
Wow.
Okay.
So many good things to takeaway from this episode.
Um, but really just love the focus onauthenticity and building trust, and
how are we doing that in the digitalspace and in person, all of that user
experience, how our customers engagewith us, how our donors engage with us.
You, I hope, starting to see that there'sa familiar thread that kind of gets
(30:41):
woven through all of our strategies,and that is the more you just show
up authentically for your people,connect with the right people, add
value, the more you're going to havelong-term growth and sustainability.
And SEO is no different, so.
Have any questions aboutit, feel free to reach out.
Hello, at the first click.net.
I'd love to hear your key takeaway.
If you're watching this onYouTube or if you have any
(31:03):
questions, let us know there too.
Um, but make sure yousubscribe wherever you listen.
We're here every Tuesday with greattopics around digital marketing, your
website, fundraising, all of the things.
I'm here for you.
So, uh, again, grab the shownotes@thefirstclick.net slash three
13 and we'll see you in the next one.
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