Want clearer, more consistent AI outputs? In this episode, we break down three prompting skills that help founders, PMs, and UX leads go from idea → clickable MVP fast—using ChatGPT and Claude. Guest Bastian Epskamp shares his 3-phase system (prepare → implement → learn), how to ship prototypes stupid fast with V0/vibe-coding, and a case study on building Auction Buddy (AI for buyer-side property decisions).
What you’ll learn
The 3 skills: framing, constraint design, and iterative prompting (ChatGPT & Claude).
Prompt templates that work: turn vague asks into structured tasks for reliable outputs.
Speed to MVP: V0/vibe-coding, docs-as-leverage, tight feedback loops.
Real product examples: how “Auction Buddy” scores inspections, plans bids, and does live auction maths.
Team craft: pair human creativity with AI to reduce cycles and increase signal.
Who this helps: Founders, product managers, and UX leads shipping LLM apps, agentic workflows, internal knowledge assistants, and customer-facing AI features.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro — Meet Bastian (BE Innovations) & the “product lens”
03:25 Why AI is a product superpower
05:40 Early builds: Dreamweaver sites, custom PCs, first “maker” wins
08:45 Research & prompting in practice (talk to AI like a teammate)
16:05 Teams, mistakes, and building with intent
19:30 Exit story → starting a strategy/innovation lab
21:00 Monetisation & prioritisation: pick the sharpest pain points
24:30 AI = remove repetition, keep judgment (why experience still matters)
29:10 Aussie ecosystem: capital cycles, resilience, and pivots
31:00 Upskilling across functions (seeing the whole system)
35:30 Prompt frameworks that work (structure, constraints, examples)
38:20 Rapid loop: Prepare → Execute → Learn
39:10 Property tools: “Auction Buddy” & decision support for buyers
👍 If this helped, like, subscribe, and share with a builder who needs faster MVPs.
#ChatGPT #Claude #PromptEngineering #AIProduct #MVP #LLM #Prototyping #VibeCoding #Startups #UX
Other Links
🎙️our podcast links here: https://digitalnexuspodcast.com/
👤Chris on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcsinclair/
👤Mark on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/markmonfort/
👤 Mark on Twitter - https://twitter.com/captdefi
SHOWNOTE LINKS
🔗 SIKE - https://sike.ai/
🌐Digital Village - https://digitalvillage.network/
🌐NotCentralised - https://www.notcentralised.com/
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DigitalNexusPodcast
X (twitter): @DigitalNexus
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Today's guest, we have BastianBoskamp, founder of V
innovation.
I always look at everything inHow could you build a product
but also monetize it?
They are constantly trying tothis new environment, and a lot
There are two types ofafraid of AI, and the other one
(00:24):
use AI for everything.
Identify your biggest painsomething where AI.
If you can use AI and train anmodel with a data set that's
can basically help get knowledgebusiness, but you still need
(00:49):
assistant, so to speak, right?
How do younger people probablyprepare themselves for the
market?
A just understand things changeIf you're able to pivot, you
Because every problem in lifeand in business, you need to
pivot in order to staysuccessful.
The second part of it is AI isBringing these different views
(01:14):
I split my prompts into threeOne is like the pre work where I
like we ask AI a lot ofhey, what did you understand?
What questions would you need toThen I do the implementation
prompt itself and now implementit.
Make sure you follow XYZ rules.
(01:38):
You have an incredibleguess that intersection of
part of your life now.
Um, do you mind just like givingproduct, uh, expertise and how
in this space over the lastimportance and the skill set you
(02:00):
Sure.
Um, I guess I always look atHow could you build a product
but also monetize it?
Yep.
And that has always been my viewRight.
Um, we can dive into this later,wrecks just because I wanted to
building physical products.
(02:21):
I have a software engineeringbackground, and anything I look
at is basic from that productlens.
And there's there's a fewindustries that really interest
me, but everything is more orless about how can new
technologies help?
How can you know new things makethings in product space?
(02:42):
Build more products have beenearly on in blockchain, worked
in that space for a while beforeeveryone actually knew what it
was.
Yeah.
Uh, just because it's I thinkcan do a lot.
And with AI, it's the same.
I've been.
in there early on and I've gonegone through that journey of
GPT.
(03:03):
Why don't you follow myIt's still kind of doing that
Yeah.
But you know, you learn alongprompt, how do you use things?
And with that, I realized thatAI is an incredible tool for
especially products and thatkind of.
Like early stage of like tryingto find market traction, MVP
(03:23):
working with different peoplein.
An environment to express whatproduct is is that link between.
Your customer service, your techYou know, the C-suite,
And you need to speak differentlanguages to explain it in ways
to different stakeholders andgroups.
(03:44):
Um, and that generally means youcontext and focus in that sense.
But also you constantly try andwrite things down and explain
them, but AI helps to speedthose things up that are just
repetitive tasks and also kindof help you to refine it in a
(04:08):
way that it's moreunderstandable.
WIP coding even though the wordlike it is.
It's really cool where you usetools to visualize what you're
trying to do.
MVP coding is so much moreI built probably like a
(04:29):
clickable prototype every two orthree weeks.
Not necessarily because I needto, but I'm also interested in
it.
And that is where I really comesperspective, from a creativity
things up so that I can focus onto spend time.
That's awesome.
Make sure it's your, um.
What's interesting there is thatof being an engineer.
(04:52):
So actually being on the toolsUm, often you see a lot of
product people transitioningfrom, I guess, the design or UX
backgrounds and um, or justgoing straight into product in
itself.
Why did you transition from, Ia product, and how have you
Yeah, I think there are twoI started playing computer
(05:15):
games, you know, youCounter-Strike.
Oh, yes.
Whatever.
We can have a huge conversationThat's awesome.
And back then, I mean, mostpeople our age might understand
it, but otherwise all of asudden you have your blue
screen.
Something doesn't work, right.
And you need it to build yourHow do you connect a graphics
All that stuff.
And it started making me want.
(05:38):
Or it made me want to understandYeah.
Um, on top of this, I started amy neighbor trying to build
put them into emails.
We stopped this because whoRight.
This is this is like years andUm, yeah.
(06:00):
So basically, I always try toAnd when it came to, what do I
I was thinking of studying art.
I'm not an artist at all, so IOr studying software
software engineering, and thatI've done only a few years.
But what I realized is ratherthan just coding, not just
(06:26):
coding, but coding, I wanted tobe the one that's in charge and
responsible for the good and thebad.
Yeah.
And we all know that productpeople usually blame when things
go wrong or that don't getpraised.
I've never done that.
I don't know what you're talkingNo, but this is this is
going into product.
Because why choosing between artMaybe there's still that Yeah.
(06:50):
yeah, just wanting to becool that elevates a product
know, USP in the market.
Um, and that evolves into morethan just product management but
like strategy.
So I do a bit of consulting, um,for like small and medium
(07:11):
from a different angle.
And what's interesting also justto to finish this up is the
market seems to come around fromproduct.
People need to be creative, needhave a design background, to
People that need to beAnd I while if you want me to
code something right now withoutAI, it's probably going to
(07:32):
break.
And it's taken years.
But I can understand code and Ican talk to tech people equally
as well as to, you know, thebusiness side and understand
this and then bring those twothings together.
That was the critical part thatThere is that the ability to
happening from the developmentproduct people who have they've
They're great at the strategyBut when it comes to the
(07:54):
development building, there's ahuge disconnect.
The why of what is going on isUm, I myself am in a similar
boat while not being on thetools.
I was a producer and productLike actually, like I helped.
I was the guy who managed allSo while I don't have the
technical skill that you have, Ido have a good understanding of
how that core developmentprocess is working, what is
(08:17):
going on, why we're usingcertain codes for certain
reasons, and that does help withthat intersection of how you
deal with stakeholders, how yourproduct becomes more robust when
it goes into market, um, whichis which is a great skill to
have.
So that's awesome.
Yeah.
And just to add here, I thinkthat also helps me to kind of
I'm not an expert, but Iunderstand how AI takes how it
(08:40):
thinks.
Yeah.
Because you talk to AI or I tryto a computer.
More technical.
I structure my prompts.
I structure everything from athan just talking like a human.
And it makes a huge differenceAnd that's the same when when
you talk with engineers, if yousay, I want a product so that
people can record their emailaddress, right.
(09:03):
It's different.
If you were to say, we want tobuild a email capture field, but
we're going to have ten thousandusers coming to this website
every day.
What does that mean forWhat does that mean for the
What does that mean for privacySo you can frame these things a
And that technical knowledge.
Apply this to AI.
Even though coding you don'tI still believe it's beneficial
(09:26):
to know those things because youcan usually prompt more specific
and get better results ingeneral.
Usually it's that when you startprompt, it's even going to the
extent of what does good notlook like.
You know, when you're trying toinsight, as well as all the
dive into a lot of promptI'm pretty excited to talk to
(09:46):
Um, along your journey, you'vedifferent, uh, I guess, uh,
Tell me about your, um, yourstopping point when it came to
the the the surfboard, uh,stuff.
So, yeah, that's an interestingSo I used to when I came to
Australia eleven, twelve yearsago.
Eleven years ago, I startedsurfing and living in a shared
(10:09):
house.
All the surfboards wereIt's strange, as an Australian,
Oh, I don't I'm fearful.
I'm fearful of it.
I just I don't want to go in theI just like, ah yeah, it's fun,
but I'm not claiming to be ableto.
Yeah, yeah, of course I'mprobably the kook that's on that
surfboard annoying everyoneelse.
But anyway, so I looked at thisAnd they're like, oh, I want to
(10:31):
be able to kind of like store mysurfboards.
But they're not just flying onthe garage floor and like
getting dinged and stuff likethat.
And I looked into basicallyproducts that were out there and
There was one specific productfrom the US to have, like a
surfboard rack to store yoursurfboards that was beautifully
designed, but it cost like, Ithink eight thousand nine
(10:54):
hundred Australian dollars, likewe're talking seven, eight years
ago.
Yeah.
And this is the economic side.
If you take inflation intowhatever twelve hundred now.
Yeah.
Um, there was another company,this better also, which.
Yeah.
Um, also, can I really do itDifferent things.
I wanted to understand thebeing responsible for digital
(11:21):
product strategy, you're able towith physical products.
And in the end, I worked with ansurfboard racks, built, um, and
So that's a bit more sustainableYep.
Not talking about shipping andYeah.
Um, but yeah, had that idea oflike, okay, I'm taking the idea
(11:44):
from Ikea.
Flat packs.
Ship them straight to customers.
Um, and it worked okay.
I mean, I spent my own money,learned so much on the way.
Like, before importing them, Iget asked, so where's your
fumigation certificate?
Like, what's your fumigationApplying this back to, like,
like to test because all thismake better strategic decisions,
(12:12):
product and then ultimately theYeah, right.
And did you what was the lessonsknow, it was such a niche thing
these bamboo boards, whichopinion, particularly when
what type of boards they're.
But you, you I mean, you endedYes.
(12:32):
Um, from a what did you learnthat digital environment that
into, I guess, how you positionYeah.
Interesting question.
I think one of the things I'vebottom line, because if I would
you know, I wouldn't have workedLike, there's no salaries for
(12:54):
startup people and expect theunexpected.
Just just to give you an idea.
Um, I get all these boards on,Where do I store them?
I thought I'm going to storeshared house, but all of a
percent of the garage.
Uh, you know, like, I haven'tAnd taking this, this experience
(13:15):
of, like, think about theunexpected.
Be prepared, um, think outsideAnd also have a good network of
A friend of mine, he has ato help me understand how the
I had no idea.
Right.
(13:35):
Like try and import like acontainer full of stuff into
Australia.
Um, yeah.
And taking that into the digitalworld, it it made me understand
working with differentstakeholders.
Again, you need to have thatimportant for them, but also
(13:57):
If I think this works and thiseveryone else likes it.
And even if everyone else likesright thing and then turn it
This is where I is cool.
I'm building something right nowdon't have a designer, I don't
I have no one else but myselfprototype and be able to test it
(14:20):
Yeah, because digital isIn AI helps me to be quite fast,
level in terms of how theUm, and therefore I'm able to
focus on the important thingslike you've gone from, I guess,
(14:42):
like selling these racks,selling these surfboards, but
like going through then thehealth industry you worked in
medical director during theCovid pandemic, which is
incredible.
And they were responsible for, Itelehealth support for
How did you find that sort of, Itime versus the work you were
(15:07):
Because I guess there was a lotThere was a lot of people who
fear that was in the market anda solution for these people in a
How did you find thatUm, incredibly beneficial for my
Yeah.
However, it was obviouslyWe had, I think medical director
(15:35):
had like forty seven percentPercent market share of patient
management systems for GPS inAustralia.
Roughly.
Don't quote me on this, but I'mamount of GPS would rely on it.
And when you get told we need toknow if people otherwise die
(15:56):
physically to a doctor, infectUm, it was a lot of pressure.
Um, but we had an incredibleSo it's not just me, obviously,
and everyone kind of knew thedirection.
And this was more than just aIt was this helps people.
(16:19):
And back then nobody knew what'sI mean, I think we started in
something just before we wentAnd yeah, that, that that was an
I it's going to sound weird, butpositive things from it.
(16:39):
As in, if you work in a team,you have a purpose as in your
There's so much more energy touseful, because of course you
positive purpose, right?
As well, of course.
Yes.
Purpose in the sense of it'sYes, it benefits society.
(17:02):
And of course there's always theYeah.
Of course.
Um, yeah.
That was why people profit.
Yeah.
And you know, like before theold discussion between working
from home or going back to theoffice.
Now, if you think about it,other than a day here and there.
(17:22):
Yeah.
And all of a sudden, people haveThey have their kids with them.
Life got so chaotic, yeteveryone was pulling in the
right direction.
And like, we built somethingtogether, which just means
again, if if you believe in yourproduct, if you believe in what
you can build, and if you have agood network and people that
work with you and you work with,you can achieve some amazing
(17:46):
things that that that'sbasically my main takeaway from
me.
What, um, what has that givenstarting your own business and
because you got be innovations?
Yeah.
Um, you're in consultancy whereconsultancy to people,
Um, as a leading strategy point.
How have you found that hasguided you into where you are
(18:08):
now?
Um, I think it's not just thework at Medicaldirector, but
I've worked in a lot ofdifferent industries.
I've worked in blockchain earlyon, um, for probably three
years.
Um, I worked in health tech.
Obviously.
I've worked in, in directI worked in big data.
Um, and all these things kind oflike helped me to understand
(18:31):
Different aspects of productbuilding strategy.
What to focus on.
Also, and this ties backprobably to medical director
make hard decisions on what tofocus on versus what's not that
important, right?
Ignore all the shiny things.
If you don't do this thing likeyou know, are you going to
(18:52):
survive?
Is the product you go going toYeah.
And I worked for a lot ofstartups and scale ups, some
successful.
That sold for quite a niceUm, I was just employed.
Yeah.
Um, and others renegotiate.
Renegotiate?
Yeah.
Like, that's that's the thing,Like, some were very successful.
(19:13):
Some weren't.
I was, um, in one startup.
It was the first hire ever.
And other companies were hadBut I was the first product hire
a very technical team andculture and strategy.
All this helped me to understandzero to, you know, one hundred.
(19:38):
So to speak.
And yeah, that combined with Ialways like to build stuff and
experiment.
That's what led me through it.
And funny enough, just tostart my own strategy business
approached by a company to doProduct transition, if you will.
(19:58):
And yeah, that just led oneThey were very happy with my
I'm like, this could lead tointo what I like to do.
You elevating a product, youlooking at a specific problem or
an overall problem and bringingit in this experience from
different industries, softwareengineering background, physical
products, digital products, allthese different things, and then
(20:21):
basically have all theseingredients and make a cake, so
to speak.
Yeah, it's it's perfect.
I like it.
Tell tell me about BDlike what is it that you guys
For people and for businesses, ISure, it's a range of different
One is more looking at strategyEither build products in you
(20:46):
early on as a startup andprioritize and focus on the
right things?
Or how can you strategicallyHow does the market look right
What's your potential user base?
How can you monetize it?
Just the overall strategy ofAnd the other thing is looking
(21:09):
at things like producttransition.
You have too many products.
You have, um, you know, a vendoryou work with that's not the
best to work with and you don'tknow how to basically get things
back on track, as well asbuilding MVPs with AI to bring
this back.
Yeah.
Um, so that when you have ideas,current team with just
(21:36):
someone from the outside thatset of mind or like a fresh
Um, yeah, that's that's prettyI love it.
I guess it's it's great.
I mean, it's it's what theAnd I think we're seeing a lot
over the place, as well as largethrough these big product
(21:58):
The impact driven by AI, eveneven driven by market needs and
change in economics, um, aroundthe globe, they are constantly
trying to figure out how toadapt into this new environment
that is rapidly growing aroundthem.
And there are a lot of them aresuffering and the opportunity is
there.
It's ripe.
Yeah.
But, you know, then the questionfaster to adapt with what's
(22:27):
us supporting them.
So I guess.
Yeah.
How do you see?
What do you see as the painsthat they're suffering for the
most?
And how do they overcome those?
Um, generally speaking, I thinkthe biggest pain is that if you
are an established business, itdoesn't matter if it's small,
medium, big, you, everyone inthe environment or most people
(22:51):
in your environment has aspecific thinking, specific
mindset.
Yeah.
Right.
Because if you work withyou don't have the time to look
ten thousand feet outside view.
Yeah.
Um, you also might be veryindustry specific in terms of
your thinking.
(23:11):
Um, but someone from the outsidethings that have worked for
in different environments.
That's one thing.
The other thing is, I thinkthere are two types of
businesses.
one that are very afraid of AI,and the other one is that
really, really wants to use AIfor everything.
(23:33):
Mhm.
I strongly believe there'sprobably something in between
where identify your biggest painpoints and see if that's
something where AI can help yousolving them.
But because the biggest paina lot of risk.
(23:57):
Do it in a call it R&D fashionas in just an easy example,
let's say your customer serviceteam is overwhelmed with
repetitive questions.
Yep.
And yes, this is an easyTheir solutions are it's common.
It's quite a common exampleEspecially with if you're not
keeping up with what's going on,there is always constant
complaints coming in from yourcustomers.
(24:18):
Fix this I want this, I needLike how does the customer
Um, get their own knowledge.
If you can use AI and train anmodel with a data set that's
can basically help this customerfrom every system in your
(24:45):
engineers document, what yousay to salespeople.
Yeah, there's I think it'sQ it's kind of like an internal
And I've just gone through thisyesterday where I think AI, at
the end of the day, is a tool totake away repetitive tasks or
(25:09):
help you look at data in a wayyou would usually not be able
to, as in connecting A, B, and Ctogether.
And that's something that'sincredibly important for
businesses.
But you also need to be mindfuldo it right, what happens?
Right?
Like, what's the impact of it?
And that's why I'm also not aeveryone and AI will do the job.
(25:35):
Yes.
And that's something that we'reUm, there are people,
businesses, organizations,particularly large corporates
who are getting rid of productteams, UX teams, design teams
and attempting to replace themwith AI with gigantic, you know,
technologies.
Um, is this something obviously,like, what's your view?
And like, why shouldn't they beHow is human in the loop such an
(26:01):
a product person or UX person,Yeah.
Well, first of all, I don'tYeah.
Um, also, everything that I'msaying right now might not be
relevant, might be not relevantin like six months or twelve
months because things change sorapidly.
It is.
But if we take today A kind ofI think the change is that you
(26:29):
your organization andmore in the junior level.
Um, but you still need expertsso to speak, right?
Like, I always see AI tools asout of uni.
Yeah, they are very promisingUm, they have an amazing skill
(26:56):
They will have very brilliantproduce, but because they don't
unfortunately, sometimes youand basically need to question
And if you look at this.
If you look at this from likea lot because AI can produce
(27:24):
keep an eye on it.
And businesses need to keep thiswant to reduce their workforce.
There's also something that ifyou use AI tools every day and
just auction buddy, I'm buildingit.
Um, I use for example, v0 for myIf you use V0 for a while, for
(27:48):
different MVP's, for differentclickable prototypes, for
different industries, you kindof start to see a pattern of
it's always a square box, it'salways this.
And that's where like a humanperspective could change that
in a different way.
(28:08):
And so, long story short, Imarket, they will have a more
the need for less.
Look at my product.
I don't have a designer, nobuilding everything for a usable
if there's some traction.
(28:29):
Right?
Yeah.
Um, that's easily like three,would have needed to hire and
more senior environment.
And I personally think even upunderstand how it works.
And if you understand this,position your business in a way
(28:49):
successful and you're going toIf you don't, you might not use
use it at all.
And that's where you fallSo you've got like, um, things
the founders of Canva, foundersknow, we're not letting go of
impacts of AI.
We're letting them go because ofincreased demand and needs.
(29:09):
We've been able to automate alot of flows that aren't to do
with AI, just specifically withthe technologies generally that
we're implementing.
Um, but on the flip side, youhave, you know, founders of
businesses like, um, uh, Shopifywho are coming out making
reports going, we're not goingto hire people unless you can
prove to me that AI can't dothat job.
(29:30):
Um, so how when you have, youare coming in fresh to the
supposed to enter a market wherean economics point of view, and
AI can do your job.
Like, how do they makeparticularly in product?
The statement I think the CEO ofShopify, that was three or six
(29:53):
months ago.
It was.
Yes.
This is like in AI terms, thisis like a decade in anomaly,
right?
So so it would be interesting toUm, I also think reading between
in everyone in the organization,So you like ahead of the curve
(30:15):
and we have the best talentpossible.
Yes, there are certain tasksreplace a human.
And this is the second part ofUm, in terms of how do younger
themselves for the market?
I think a just understand thingsAnd I've seen this in blockchain
(30:37):
You wake up and somethingRegulatory changes, whatever and
Yeah that is crazy sometimes andBut at the same time it also
you think differently.
Because every problem in lifeand in business, you need to
pivot in order to staysuccessful.
So you learn something out of itAnd the second part of it is, I
(31:00):
think, experiment, if, you know,fingers crossed, maybe somebody
gets successful and I need toand can will be able to hire
some people.
I would hire people that use AI.
And when I say you say, show mewhat you've built in your
private time.
It doesn't have to be pretty.
It doesn't have to work.
But show me that you haveinterest because I, at this
(31:21):
point is still a juniorassistant.
Still needs to understand how itThere are people saying, oh, you
don't need to understand howprompting works anymore because
there are tools that can promptfor you.
That is correct.
But I want people still tounderstand how to prompt,
because that structure makes aworld of difference in the
results.
And if you know this, you canthen, you know, like basically
(31:43):
upskill yourself.
So if everyone built as much asyou can, it's the idea of, you
know, as technologistsourselves, particularly product
people, UX, that all thatstrategic technology and
digital.
Our role is to stay ahead ofunderstand how the product needs
And if we're not staying aheadof the curve and what's
happening in AI, we're makingourselves irrelevant.
(32:05):
Essentially, half of the workexactly if I wouldn't use AI.
And also one thing is, I thinkmore, as in human design.
But that doesn't mean thatyou're not a product person,
because AI helps you to kind oflike be a bit more of a product
person.
I'm a product, but doesn't meancertain degree, because AI helps
(32:30):
So it's it's blurring the line.
And it's interesting thatI've seen you talk about is that
know, the need for structuredalso the intersection of
Um, how do you see that working,where there's a lot of question
(32:52):
Um, I for one, one of thebiggest areas of creativity that
I see the most when it comes torunning any of these type of
processes is, is the differentroles that people can play in
the development.
So whether you're a financeor you're a CEO or you know,
started that difference.
And diversity brings so muchany kind of process and project.
(33:15):
And now, with AI on top, that'scompletely changing, but also
kind of leveling the field withthat mentality and that creative
element.
How are you seeing those twoI think creativity lies in
Creativity is something that AIThe creativity that AI does is
(33:39):
And when I say you, I mean likewhat it got trained on is in the
large language models aretrained on.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, creativity for me is alsobeing able to see things from
different angles and connectingthe dots.
Which brings me back to aMight see things more from a
This would be beautiful andThe I don't know, the
(34:04):
like, but this doesn't make uswould be like, but this takes
one only one month.
So you bring in these differentcreativity I think.
AI.
Perfect.
I love that helps.
Like I would love companiessometimes to build your call it
(34:26):
like your rapid strike squad asin one designer, one product,
one dev.
Take the vision or the missionfree with AI and build something
Right?
And the other thing is just tocreative as what we feed it
(34:51):
and how we think and how youOf course.
Right.
Will it be relevant that thingsperfect in five years time?
Maybe not because nobody caresMaybe I don't know, but right
And that's where Havingdifferent people in in your
(35:11):
circle of friends, differentdemographics, different mindset,
different everything as well asin your professional life makes
a difference.
Which brings us back toThink outside of the box.
Yeah.
Awesome.
That was that was really wellI liked that a lot too.
That just the creative elementan important piece for me.
Whenever I run any of theseproduct roles, whenever I run a
(35:32):
project, whenever I helpcustomers develop startups,
develop something.
Diversity is always a crucialwas well summarized.
Thanks.
Um, obviously in practice, um, Ipiece that you mentioned.
As we as we dive into that,there's a lot of, I guess,
naivety and how we structure theprompts that or how people who
(35:53):
are inexperienced structureprompts.
Um, and you've come out, we hadaround the importance of that
style and how you structure thatSo we're touching on that
How do you see prompting beingsuch an important piece of the
output that you need it toproduce?
(36:14):
I got to be bold and sayprompting is ninety percent of
what quality of result you willget.
Yeah.
Um, like I said in theChatGPT the way I would use
build me a website to do emailNowadays what I've learned is
(36:38):
Format in a structured way.
Yeah, but also I split myprompts into three different
components.
One is like the pre work where Iwhere I explain things,
these kind of things.
Um, and then ask AI to come backwith what it understood, what,
(37:00):
what the potential outcome wouldbe if this would be used to
implement a new featurefunctionality.
Whatever.
What does that mean to risk?
Ask me questions.
So it's a two way street for me,Like, we ask AI a lot of
hey, what did you understand?
What questions would you need todesigner, a software engineer?
(37:22):
So give it a role.
The result I'm getting from thisunderstand how AI thinks, based
terms of information, and thenit before I implement something
implementation prompt itself andMake sure you follow XYZ rules.
(37:47):
Make sure you don't touch this.
Remember last time we had youRemember it's for this customer
And yes you can outsource thisLike this is a mobile first
So seventy percent of users willHow does that impact your coding
Whatever.
(38:07):
Once this is done, the third andlast problem is what have we not
AI?
But what have we learned fromAs in, should I have prompted
What has I learned in it?
And that will be then documentedin a rules file like for
auction.
But I think my rules file is nowUm, and I have multiple files,
(38:29):
rules for specific projects forSo I don't need to type it every
itself takes the most time, andit's going to be.
Right.
Yeah.
And then that's where things goSo prompt structure prepare.
Execute.
Learn.
Nice.
Touched on a couple of timesyour your auction platform that
(38:52):
you're building.
Tell me about this that sure.
Because it sounds reallyWhat you've uh what you've been
hopefully by the time thisbe launched and ready to be
Yeah.
Auction.
If anyone wants to hear first.
Yes.
Um, basically, again, thealways looking at things from a
(39:14):
I build and how could youday, how could it help users?
And the idea is the propertymarket in Australia is very much
Um, except from buyers agents,you don't really have anyone
that supports the buyer upfrontwith informed information and
that product.
(39:35):
The idea is you, as a potentialbuyer, go to different
properties that you areinterested in.
Inspect them, record informationfor you specifically of your
interest, um, specifically forthis property.
And once you have gone to likeyou all of a sudden realize
(39:56):
whatever, this needs fiftyit's One hundred thousand
that doesn't need the repairs.
Um, so you get more and moretailored to you.
You then set a bidding strategyYou equip with this property
similar to XYZ and your tailoredinformation.
(40:19):
You know, um, you should bid uplive auction day.
What does one hundred thousandfor your down payment, for your
yield and everything else?
And it's basically supportinginformation, because you go
(40:43):
auctions and see information.
And then obviously, yes, there'sYeah.
Um, to help you make the rightinformed decisions because
property in Australia is veryemotion driven.
A lot of people overspend.
A lot of people Regret, probablyI mean, you know, there's
(41:04):
that's available and thereforeoverbidding because they've been
they've been struggling to getAnd then suddenly then it's out
Hundreds of thousands more thanexactly what they're willing to
stretch themselves.
And the buyout.
I mean, the buyer can either goan Excel sheet or somewhere, or
a lot of money.
This is an alternative whereit's free, potentially some
(41:27):
premium features.
Again, I take a picture of aroom and say, what would it cost
to renovate this in a countryhouse style, which medium to
cheap furniture?
And it can basically calculateAnd all of a sudden, you see, I
want to renovate.
It cost me an extra one hundredThis is cheaper than getting a
(41:49):
And then obviously, from acould then connect you to
shops selling shares, whatever.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And I've done the business case.
I've done everything.
I think there's there's I'veI had some people already
Well, we'll make sure to includeMate, that sounds really awesome
(42:11):
because it's definitelysomething that people are
needing out there in thiscurrent market.
Bastion.
It has been an absolute pleasureAny final words that you want to
Um, no. Just anything you wantCom.au give me some feedback.
There will be a whitelist forfive hundred people to have it
(42:31):
Other than that, just thanks forThis is amazing.
I've been a pleasure.
Thanks.
Thank you buddy.
Cheers, everyone.
Thank you very much.
Like subscribe and we'll see you
Today's guest, we have BastianBoskamp, founder of V
innovation.
I always look at everything inHow could you build a product
but also monetize it?
They are constantly trying tothis new environment, and a lot
There are two types ofafraid of AI, and the other one
(00:24):
use AI for everything.
Identify your biggest painsomething where AI.
If you can use AI and train anmodel with a data set that's
can basically help get knowledgebusiness, but you still need
(00:49):
assistant, so to speak, right?
How do younger people probablyprepare themselves for the
market?
A just understand things changeIf you're able to pivot, you
Because every problem in lifeand in business, you need to
pivot in order to staysuccessful.
The second part of it is AI isBringing these different views
(01:14):
I split my prompts into threeOne is like the pre work where I
like we ask AI a lot ofhey, what did you understand?
What questions would you need toThen I do the implementation
prompt itself and now implementit.
Make sure you follow XYZ rules.
(01:38):
You have an incredibleguess that intersection of
part of your life now.
Um, do you mind just like givingproduct, uh, expertise and how
in this space over the lastimportance and the skill set you
(02:00):
Sure.
Um, I guess I always look atHow could you build a product
but also monetize it?
Yep.
And that has always been my viewRight.
Um, we can dive into this later,wrecks just because I wanted to
building physical products.
(02:21):
I have a software engineeringbackground, and anything I look
at is basic from that productlens.
And there's there's a fewindustries that really interest
me, but everything is more orless about how can new
technologies help?
How can you know new things makethings in product space?
(02:42):
Build more products have beenearly on in blockchain, worked
in that space for a while beforeeveryone actually knew what it
was.
Yeah.
Uh, just because it's I thinkcan do a lot.
And with AI, it's the same.
I've been.
in there early on and I've gonegone through that journey of
GPT.
(03:03):
Why don't you follow myIt's still kind of doing that
Yeah.
But you know, you learn alongprompt, how do you use things?
And with that, I realized thatAI is an incredible tool for
especially products and thatkind of.
Like early stage of like tryingto find market traction, MVP
(03:23):
working with different peoplein.
An environment to express whatproduct is is that link between.
Your customer service, your techYou know, the C-suite,
And you need to speak differentlanguages to explain it in ways
to different stakeholders andgroups.
(03:44):
Um, and that generally means youcontext and focus in that sense.
But also you constantly try andwrite things down and explain
them, but AI helps to speedthose things up that are just
repetitive tasks and also kindof help you to refine it in a
(04:08):
way that it's moreunderstandable.
WIP coding even though the wordlike it is.
It's really cool where you usetools to visualize what you're
trying to do.
MVP coding is so much moreI built probably like a
(04:29):
clickable prototype every two orthree weeks.
Not necessarily because I needto, but I'm also interested in
it.
And that is where I really comesperspective, from a creativity
things up so that I can focus onto spend time.
That's awesome.
Make sure it's your, um.
What's interesting there is thatof being an engineer.
(04:52):
So actually being on the toolsUm, often you see a lot of
product people transitioningfrom, I guess, the design or UX
backgrounds and um, or justgoing straight into product in
itself.
Why did you transition from, Ia product, and how have you
Yeah, I think there are twoI started playing computer
(05:15):
games, you know, youCounter-Strike.
Oh, yes.
Whatever.
We can have a huge conversationThat's awesome.
And back then, I mean, mostpeople our age might understand
it, but otherwise all of asudden you have your blue
screen.
Something doesn't work, right.
And you need it to build yourHow do you connect a graphics
All that stuff.
And it started making me want.
(05:38):
Or it made me want to understandYeah.
Um, on top of this, I started amy neighbor trying to build
put them into emails.
We stopped this because whoRight.
This is this is like years andUm, yeah.
(06:00):
So basically, I always try toAnd when it came to, what do I
I was thinking of studying art.
I'm not an artist at all, so IOr studying software
software engineering, and thatI've done only a few years.
But what I realized is ratherthan just coding, not just
(06:26):
coding, but coding, I wanted tobe the one that's in charge and
responsible for the good and thebad.
Yeah.
And we all know that productpeople usually blame when things
go wrong or that don't getpraised.
I've never done that.
I don't know what you're talkingNo, but this is this is
going into product.
Because why choosing between artMaybe there's still that Yeah.
(06:50):
yeah, just wanting to becool that elevates a product
know, USP in the market.
Um, and that evolves into morethan just product management but
like strategy.
So I do a bit of consulting, um,for like small and medium
(07:11):
from a different angle.
And what's interesting also justto to finish this up is the
market seems to come around fromproduct.
People need to be creative, needhave a design background, to
People that need to beAnd I while if you want me to
code something right now withoutAI, it's probably going to
(07:32):
break.
And it's taken years.
But I can understand code and Ican talk to tech people equally
as well as to, you know, thebusiness side and understand
this and then bring those twothings together.
That was the critical part thatThere is that the ability to
happening from the developmentproduct people who have they've
They're great at the strategyBut when it comes to the
(07:54):
development building, there's ahuge disconnect.
The why of what is going on isUm, I myself am in a similar
boat while not being on thetools.
I was a producer and productLike actually, like I helped.
I was the guy who managed allSo while I don't have the
technical skill that you have, Ido have a good understanding of
how that core developmentprocess is working, what is
(08:17):
going on, why we're usingcertain codes for certain
reasons, and that does help withthat intersection of how you
deal with stakeholders, how yourproduct becomes more robust when
it goes into market, um, whichis which is a great skill to
have.
So that's awesome.
Yeah.
And just to add here, I thinkthat also helps me to kind of
I'm not an expert, but Iunderstand how AI takes how it
(08:40):
thinks.
Yeah.
Because you talk to AI or I tryto a computer.
More technical.
I structure my prompts.
I structure everything from athan just talking like a human.
And it makes a huge differenceAnd that's the same when when
you talk with engineers, if yousay, I want a product so that
people can record their emailaddress, right.
(09:03):
It's different.
If you were to say, we want tobuild a email capture field, but
we're going to have ten thousandusers coming to this website
every day.
What does that mean forWhat does that mean for the
What does that mean for privacySo you can frame these things a
And that technical knowledge.
Apply this to AI.
Even though coding you don'tI still believe it's beneficial
(09:26):
to know those things because youcan usually prompt more specific
and get better results ingeneral.
Usually it's that when you startprompt, it's even going to the
extent of what does good notlook like.
You know, when you're trying toinsight, as well as all the
dive into a lot of promptI'm pretty excited to talk to
(09:46):
Um, along your journey, you'vedifferent, uh, I guess, uh,
Tell me about your, um, yourstopping point when it came to
the the the surfboard, uh,stuff.
So, yeah, that's an interestingSo I used to when I came to
Australia eleven, twelve yearsago.
Eleven years ago, I startedsurfing and living in a shared
(10:09):
house.
All the surfboards wereIt's strange, as an Australian,
Oh, I don't I'm fearful.
I'm fearful of it.
I just I don't want to go in theI just like, ah yeah, it's fun,
but I'm not claiming to be ableto.
Yeah, yeah, of course I'mprobably the kook that's on that
surfboard annoying everyoneelse.
But anyway, so I looked at thisAnd they're like, oh, I want to
(10:31):
be able to kind of like store mysurfboards.
But they're not just flying onthe garage floor and like
getting dinged and stuff likethat.
And I looked into basicallyproducts that were out there and
There was one specific productfrom the US to have, like a
surfboard rack to store yoursurfboards that was beautifully
designed, but it cost like, Ithink eight thousand nine
(10:54):
hundred Australian dollars, likewe're talking seven, eight years
ago.
Yeah.
And this is the economic side.
If you take inflation intowhatever twelve hundred now.
Yeah.
Um, there was another company,this better also, which.
Yeah.
Um, also, can I really do itDifferent things.
I wanted to understand thebeing responsible for digital
(11:21):
product strategy, you're able towith physical products.
And in the end, I worked with ansurfboard racks, built, um, and
So that's a bit more sustainableYep.
Not talking about shipping andYeah.
Um, but yeah, had that idea oflike, okay, I'm taking the idea
(11:44):
from Ikea.
Flat packs.
Ship them straight to customers.
Um, and it worked okay.
I mean, I spent my own money,learned so much on the way.
Like, before importing them, Iget asked, so where's your
fumigation certificate?
Like, what's your fumigationApplying this back to, like,
like to test because all thismake better strategic decisions,
(12:12):
product and then ultimately theYeah, right.
And did you what was the lessonsknow, it was such a niche thing
these bamboo boards, whichopinion, particularly when
what type of boards they're.
But you, you I mean, you endedYes.
(12:32):
Um, from a what did you learnthat digital environment that
into, I guess, how you positionYeah.
Interesting question.
I think one of the things I'vebottom line, because if I would
you know, I wouldn't have workedLike, there's no salaries for
(12:54):
startup people and expect theunexpected.
Just just to give you an idea.
Um, I get all these boards on,Where do I store them?
I thought I'm going to storeshared house, but all of a
percent of the garage.
Uh, you know, like, I haven'tAnd taking this, this experience
(13:15):
of, like, think about theunexpected.
Be prepared, um, think outsideAnd also have a good network of
A friend of mine, he has ato help me understand how the
I had no idea.
Right.
(13:35):
Like try and import like acontainer full of stuff into
Australia.
Um, yeah.
And taking that into the digitalworld, it it made me understand
working with differentstakeholders.
Again, you need to have thatimportant for them, but also
(13:57):
If I think this works and thiseveryone else likes it.
And even if everyone else likesright thing and then turn it
This is where I is cool.
I'm building something right nowdon't have a designer, I don't
I have no one else but myselfprototype and be able to test it
(14:20):
Yeah, because digital isIn AI helps me to be quite fast,
level in terms of how theUm, and therefore I'm able to
focus on the important thingslike you've gone from, I guess,
(14:42):
like selling these racks,selling these surfboards, but
like going through then thehealth industry you worked in
medical director during theCovid pandemic, which is
incredible.
And they were responsible for, Itelehealth support for
How did you find that sort of, Itime versus the work you were
(15:07):
Because I guess there was a lotThere was a lot of people who
fear that was in the market anda solution for these people in a
How did you find thatUm, incredibly beneficial for my
Yeah.
However, it was obviouslyWe had, I think medical director
(15:35):
had like forty seven percentPercent market share of patient
management systems for GPS inAustralia.
Roughly.
Don't quote me on this, but I'mamount of GPS would rely on it.
And when you get told we need toknow if people otherwise die
(15:56):
physically to a doctor, infectUm, it was a lot of pressure.
Um, but we had an incredibleSo it's not just me, obviously,
and everyone kind of knew thedirection.
And this was more than just aIt was this helps people.
(16:19):
And back then nobody knew what'sI mean, I think we started in
something just before we wentAnd yeah, that, that that was an
I it's going to sound weird, butpositive things from it.
(16:39):
As in, if you work in a team,you have a purpose as in your
There's so much more energy touseful, because of course you
positive purpose, right?
As well, of course.
Yes.
Purpose in the sense of it'sYes, it benefits society.
(17:02):
And of course there's always theYeah.
Of course.
Um, yeah.
That was why people profit.
Yeah.
And you know, like before theold discussion between working
from home or going back to theoffice.
Now, if you think about it,other than a day here and there.
(17:22):
Yeah.
And all of a sudden, people haveThey have their kids with them.
Life got so chaotic, yeteveryone was pulling in the
right direction.
And like, we built somethingtogether, which just means
again, if if you believe in yourproduct, if you believe in what
you can build, and if you have agood network and people that
work with you and you work with,you can achieve some amazing
(17:46):
things that that that'sbasically my main takeaway from
me.
What, um, what has that givenstarting your own business and
because you got be innovations?
Yeah.
Um, you're in consultancy whereconsultancy to people,
Um, as a leading strategy point.
How have you found that hasguided you into where you are
(18:08):
now?
Um, I think it's not just thework at Medicaldirector, but
I've worked in a lot ofdifferent industries.
I've worked in blockchain earlyon, um, for probably three
years.
Um, I worked in health tech.
Obviously.
I've worked in, in directI worked in big data.
Um, and all these things kind oflike helped me to understand
(18:31):
Different aspects of productbuilding strategy.
What to focus on.
Also, and this ties backprobably to medical director
make hard decisions on what tofocus on versus what's not that
important, right?
Ignore all the shiny things.
If you don't do this thing likeyou know, are you going to
(18:52):
survive?
Is the product you go going toYeah.
And I worked for a lot ofstartups and scale ups, some
successful.
That sold for quite a niceUm, I was just employed.
Yeah.
Um, and others renegotiate.
Renegotiate?
Yeah.
Like, that's that's the thing,Like, some were very successful.
(19:13):
Some weren't.
I was, um, in one startup.
It was the first hire ever.
And other companies were hadBut I was the first product hire
a very technical team andculture and strategy.
All this helped me to understandzero to, you know, one hundred.
(19:38):
So to speak.
And yeah, that combined with Ialways like to build stuff and
experiment.
That's what led me through it.
And funny enough, just tostart my own strategy business
approached by a company to doProduct transition, if you will.
(19:58):
And yeah, that just led oneThey were very happy with my
I'm like, this could lead tointo what I like to do.
You elevating a product, youlooking at a specific problem or
an overall problem and bringingit in this experience from
different industries, softwareengineering background, physical
products, digital products, allthese different things, and then
(20:21):
basically have all theseingredients and make a cake, so
to speak.
Yeah, it's it's perfect.
I like it.
Tell tell me about BDlike what is it that you guys
For people and for businesses, ISure, it's a range of different
One is more looking at strategyEither build products in you
(20:46):
early on as a startup andprioritize and focus on the
right things?
Or how can you strategicallyHow does the market look right
What's your potential user base?
How can you monetize it?
Just the overall strategy ofAnd the other thing is looking
(21:09):
at things like producttransition.
You have too many products.
You have, um, you know, a vendoryou work with that's not the
best to work with and you don'tknow how to basically get things
back on track, as well asbuilding MVPs with AI to bring
this back.
Yeah.
Um, so that when you have ideas,current team with just
(21:36):
someone from the outside thatset of mind or like a fresh
Um, yeah, that's that's prettyI love it.
I guess it's it's great.
I mean, it's it's what theAnd I think we're seeing a lot
over the place, as well as largethrough these big product
(21:58):
The impact driven by AI, eveneven driven by market needs and
change in economics, um, aroundthe globe, they are constantly
trying to figure out how toadapt into this new environment
that is rapidly growing aroundthem.
And there are a lot of them aresuffering and the opportunity is
there.
It's ripe.
Yeah.
But, you know, then the questionfaster to adapt with what's
(22:27):
us supporting them.
So I guess.
Yeah.
How do you see?
What do you see as the painsthat they're suffering for the
most?
And how do they overcome those?
Um, generally speaking, I thinkthe biggest pain is that if you
are an established business, itdoesn't matter if it's small,
medium, big, you, everyone inthe environment or most people
(22:51):
in your environment has aspecific thinking, specific
mindset.
Yeah.
Right.
Because if you work withyou don't have the time to look
ten thousand feet outside view.
Yeah.
Um, you also might be veryindustry specific in terms of
your thinking.
(23:11):
Um, but someone from the outsidethings that have worked for
in different environments.
That's one thing.
The other thing is, I thinkthere are two types of
businesses.
one that are very afraid of AI,and the other one is that
really, really wants to use AIfor everything.
(23:33):
Mhm.
I strongly believe there'sprobably something in between
where identify your biggest painpoints and see if that's
something where AI can help yousolving them.
But because the biggest paina lot of risk.
(23:57):
Do it in a call it R&D fashionas in just an easy example,
let's say your customer serviceteam is overwhelmed with
repetitive questions.
Yep.
And yes, this is an easyTheir solutions are it's common.
It's quite a common exampleEspecially with if you're not
keeping up with what's going on,there is always constant
complaints coming in from yourcustomers.
(24:18):
Fix this I want this, I needLike how does the customer
Um, get their own knowledge.
If you can use AI and train anmodel with a data set that's
can basically help this customerfrom every system in your
(24:45):
engineers document, what yousay to salespeople.
Yeah, there's I think it'sQ it's kind of like an internal
And I've just gone through thisyesterday where I think AI, at
the end of the day, is a tool totake away repetitive tasks or
(25:09):
help you look at data in a wayyou would usually not be able
to, as in connecting A, B, and Ctogether.
And that's something that'sincredibly important for
businesses.
But you also need to be mindfuldo it right, what happens?
Right?
Like, what's the impact of it?
And that's why I'm also not aeveryone and AI will do the job.
(25:35):
Yes.
And that's something that we'reUm, there are people,
businesses, organizations,particularly large corporates
who are getting rid of productteams, UX teams, design teams
and attempting to replace themwith AI with gigantic, you know,
technologies.
Um, is this something obviously,like, what's your view?
And like, why shouldn't they beHow is human in the loop such an
(26:01):
a product person or UX person,Yeah.
Well, first of all, I don'tYeah.
Um, also, everything that I'msaying right now might not be
relevant, might be not relevantin like six months or twelve
months because things change sorapidly.
It is.
But if we take today A kind ofI think the change is that you
(26:29):
your organization andmore in the junior level.
Um, but you still need expertsso to speak, right?
Like, I always see AI tools asout of uni.
Yeah, they are very promisingUm, they have an amazing skill
(26:56):
They will have very brilliantproduce, but because they don't
unfortunately, sometimes youand basically need to question
And if you look at this.
If you look at this from likea lot because AI can produce
(27:24):
keep an eye on it.
And businesses need to keep thiswant to reduce their workforce.
There's also something that ifyou use AI tools every day and
just auction buddy, I'm buildingit.
Um, I use for example, v0 for myIf you use V0 for a while, for
(27:48):
different MVP's, for differentclickable prototypes, for
different industries, you kindof start to see a pattern of
it's always a square box, it'salways this.
And that's where like a humanperspective could change that
in a different way.
(28:08):
And so, long story short, Imarket, they will have a more
the need for less.
Look at my product.
I don't have a designer, nobuilding everything for a usable
if there's some traction.
(28:29):
Right?
Yeah.
Um, that's easily like three,would have needed to hire and
more senior environment.
And I personally think even upunderstand how it works.
And if you understand this,position your business in a way
(28:49):
successful and you're going toIf you don't, you might not use
use it at all.
And that's where you fallSo you've got like, um, things
the founders of Canva, foundersknow, we're not letting go of
impacts of AI.
We're letting them go because ofincreased demand and needs.
(29:09):
We've been able to automate alot of flows that aren't to do
with AI, just specifically withthe technologies generally that
we're implementing.
Um, but on the flip side, youhave, you know, founders of
businesses like, um, uh, Shopifywho are coming out making
reports going, we're not goingto hire people unless you can
prove to me that AI can't dothat job.
(29:30):
Um, so how when you have, youare coming in fresh to the
supposed to enter a market wherean economics point of view, and
AI can do your job.
Like, how do they makeparticularly in product?
The statement I think the CEO ofShopify, that was three or six
(29:53):
months ago.
It was.
Yes.
This is like in AI terms, thisis like a decade in anomaly,
right?
So so it would be interesting toUm, I also think reading between
in everyone in the organization,So you like ahead of the curve
(30:15):
and we have the best talentpossible.
Yes, there are certain tasksreplace a human.
And this is the second part ofUm, in terms of how do younger
themselves for the market?
I think a just understand thingsAnd I've seen this in blockchain
(30:37):
You wake up and somethingRegulatory changes, whatever and
Yeah that is crazy sometimes andBut at the same time it also
you think differently.
Because every problem in lifeand in business, you need to
pivot in order to staysuccessful.
So you learn something out of itAnd the second part of it is, I
(31:00):
think, experiment, if, you know,fingers crossed, maybe somebody
gets successful and I need toand can will be able to hire
some people.
I would hire people that use AI.
And when I say you say, show mewhat you've built in your
private time.
It doesn't have to be pretty.
It doesn't have to work.
But show me that you haveinterest because I, at this
(31:21):
point is still a juniorassistant.
Still needs to understand how itThere are people saying, oh, you
don't need to understand howprompting works anymore because
there are tools that can promptfor you.
That is correct.
But I want people still tounderstand how to prompt,
because that structure makes aworld of difference in the
results.
And if you know this, you canthen, you know, like basically
(31:43):
upskill yourself.
So if everyone built as much asyou can, it's the idea of, you
know, as technologistsourselves, particularly product
people, UX, that all thatstrategic technology and
digital.
Our role is to stay ahead ofunderstand how the product needs
And if we're not staying aheadof the curve and what's
happening in AI, we're makingourselves irrelevant.
(32:05):
Essentially, half of the workexactly if I wouldn't use AI.
And also one thing is, I thinkmore, as in human design.
But that doesn't mean thatyou're not a product person,
because AI helps you to kind oflike be a bit more of a product
person.
I'm a product, but doesn't meancertain degree, because AI helps
(32:30):
So it's it's blurring the line.
And it's interesting thatI've seen you talk about is that
know, the need for structuredalso the intersection of
Um, how do you see that working,where there's a lot of question
(32:52):
Um, I for one, one of thebiggest areas of creativity that
I see the most when it comes torunning any of these type of
processes is, is the differentroles that people can play in
the development.
So whether you're a financeor you're a CEO or you know,
started that difference.
And diversity brings so muchany kind of process and project.
(33:15):
And now, with AI on top, that'scompletely changing, but also
kind of leveling the field withthat mentality and that creative
element.
How are you seeing those twoI think creativity lies in
Creativity is something that AIThe creativity that AI does is
(33:39):
And when I say you, I mean likewhat it got trained on is in the
large language models aretrained on.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, creativity for me is alsobeing able to see things from
different angles and connectingthe dots.
Which brings me back to aMight see things more from a
This would be beautiful andThe I don't know, the
(34:04):
like, but this doesn't make uswould be like, but this takes
one only one month.
So you bring in these differentcreativity I think.
AI.
Perfect.
I love that helps.
Like I would love companiessometimes to build your call it
(34:26):
like your rapid strike squad asin one designer, one product,
one dev.
Take the vision or the missionfree with AI and build something
Right?
And the other thing is just tocreative as what we feed it
(34:51):
and how we think and how youOf course.
Right.
Will it be relevant that thingsperfect in five years time?
Maybe not because nobody caresMaybe I don't know, but right
And that's where Havingdifferent people in in your
(35:11):
circle of friends, differentdemographics, different mindset,
different everything as well asin your professional life makes
a difference.
Which brings us back toThink outside of the box.
Yeah.
Awesome.
That was that was really wellI liked that a lot too.
That just the creative elementan important piece for me.
Whenever I run any of theseproduct roles, whenever I run a
(35:32):
project, whenever I helpcustomers develop startups,
develop something.
Diversity is always a crucialwas well summarized.
Thanks.
Um, obviously in practice, um, Ipiece that you mentioned.
As we as we dive into that,there's a lot of, I guess,
naivety and how we structure theprompts that or how people who
(35:53):
are inexperienced structureprompts.
Um, and you've come out, we hadaround the importance of that
style and how you structure thatSo we're touching on that
How do you see prompting beingsuch an important piece of the
output that you need it toproduce?
(36:14):
I got to be bold and sayprompting is ninety percent of
what quality of result you willget.
Yeah.
Um, like I said in theChatGPT the way I would use
build me a website to do emailNowadays what I've learned is
(36:38):
Format in a structured way.
Yeah, but also I split myprompts into three different
components.
One is like the pre work where Iwhere I explain things,
these kind of things.
Um, and then ask AI to come backwith what it understood, what,
(37:00):
what the potential outcome wouldbe if this would be used to
implement a new featurefunctionality.
Whatever.
What does that mean to risk?
Ask me questions.
So it's a two way street for me,Like, we ask AI a lot of
hey, what did you understand?
What questions would you need todesigner, a software engineer?
(37:22):
So give it a role.
The result I'm getting from thisunderstand how AI thinks, based
terms of information, and thenit before I implement something
implementation prompt itself andMake sure you follow XYZ rules.
(37:47):
Make sure you don't touch this.
Remember last time we had youRemember it's for this customer
And yes you can outsource thisLike this is a mobile first
So seventy percent of users willHow does that impact your coding
Whatever.
(38:07):
Once this is done, the third andlast problem is what have we not
AI?
But what have we learned fromAs in, should I have prompted
What has I learned in it?
And that will be then documentedin a rules file like for
auction.
But I think my rules file is nowUm, and I have multiple files,
(38:29):
rules for specific projects forSo I don't need to type it every
itself takes the most time, andit's going to be.
Right.
Yeah.
And then that's where things goSo prompt structure prepare.
Execute.
Learn.
Nice.
Touched on a couple of timesyour your auction platform that
(38:52):
you're building.
Tell me about this that sure.
Because it sounds reallyWhat you've uh what you've been
hopefully by the time thisbe launched and ready to be
Yeah.
Auction.
If anyone wants to hear first.
Yes.
Um, basically, again, thealways looking at things from a
(39:14):
I build and how could youday, how could it help users?
And the idea is the propertymarket in Australia is very much
Um, except from buyers agents,you don't really have anyone
that supports the buyer upfrontwith informed information and
that product.
(39:35):
The idea is you, as a potentialbuyer, go to different
properties that you areinterested in.
Inspect them, record informationfor you specifically of your
interest, um, specifically forthis property.
And once you have gone to likeyou all of a sudden realize
(39:56):
whatever, this needs fiftyit's One hundred thousand
that doesn't need the repairs.
Um, so you get more and moretailored to you.
You then set a bidding strategyYou equip with this property
similar to XYZ and your tailoredinformation.
(40:19):
You know, um, you should bid uplive auction day.
What does one hundred thousandfor your down payment, for your
yield and everything else?
And it's basically supportinginformation, because you go
(40:43):
auctions and see information.
And then obviously, yes, there'sYeah.
Um, to help you make the rightinformed decisions because
property in Australia is veryemotion driven.
A lot of people overspend.
A lot of people Regret, probablyI mean, you know, there's
(41:04):
that's available and thereforeoverbidding because they've been
they've been struggling to getAnd then suddenly then it's out
Hundreds of thousands more thanexactly what they're willing to
stretch themselves.
And the buyout.
I mean, the buyer can either goan Excel sheet or somewhere, or
a lot of money.
This is an alternative whereit's free, potentially some
(41:27):
premium features.
Again, I take a picture of aroom and say, what would it cost
to renovate this in a countryhouse style, which medium to
cheap furniture?
And it can basically calculateAnd all of a sudden, you see, I
want to renovate.
It cost me an extra one hundredThis is cheaper than getting a
(41:49):
And then obviously, from acould then connect you to
shops selling shares, whatever.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And I've done the business case.
I've done everything.
I think there's there's I'veI had some people already
Well, we'll make sure to includeMate, that sounds really awesome
(42:11):
because it's definitelysomething that people are
needing out there in thiscurrent market.
Bastion.
It has been an absolute pleasureAny final words that you want to
Um, no. Just anything you wantCom.au give me some feedback.
There will be a whitelist forfive hundred people to have it
(42:31):
Other than that, just thanks forThis is amazing.
I've been a pleasure.
Thanks.
Thank you buddy.
Cheers, everyone.
Thank you very much.
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