Join Carolanne Ashley, co-host of the Your MindBody Link podcast, as we journey into the future of AI and unpack Andrew Grill's new book, Digitally Curious.
Have you ever wondered how digital curiosity can shape your career? This episode promises to unravel that and more as we uncover the behind-the-scenes story of "Digitally Curious" and how Andrew's early experiments with technology and over 100 podcast interviews fueled its content.
The episode examines groundbreaking technologies such as quantum computing and self-sovereign identity, discussing their imminent and profound impact on businesses.
We also tackle the looming "Q-Day", and the need for organisations to prepare for a new era where quantum computers will challenge current data security measures.
Find out how Andrew's experience speaking to corporate audiences as the Actionable Futurist, where he leaves them with five things to do next, spawned the "Curious Five", which is included at the end of every chapter, making it practical and actionable.
Carolanne asks how AI can transform everyday workflows like never before, acting as an "always-on intern" to revolutionise business operations.
Watch as the tables are turned, and the interviewer becomes the interviewee!
More information
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Carolanne's website
Carolanne on LinkedIn
Thanks for listening to Digitally Curious. You can buy the book that showcases these episodes at curious.click/order
Your Host is Actionable Futurist® Andrew Grill
For more on Andrew - what he speaks about and recent talks, please visit ActionableFuturist.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Digitally Curious, a podcast to help you
navigate the future of AI andbeyond.
Your host is world-renownedfuturist and author of Digitally
Curious, Andrew Grill.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
In episode nine of the current series of the
podcast, I used the new GoogleNotebook LM tool to create a
podcast that reviewed my newbook Digitally.
Curious On this episode of thepodcast, I asked Carol-Anne
Ashley, host of the your Mind,Body Link podcast, to interview
me about the book.
She was one of the first toread the initial manuscript, so
(00:36):
she's been across the text for awhile.
I hope you enjoy the insightsfrom our discussion about the
book.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So first let's start off with the origins of the book
.
In it you mentioned, you had afew false starts.
So why this book and why?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
now?
Really good question.
I actually started writing abook back in 2009.
It was going to be calledTwitter for Business.
I had a publisher engaged.
I had an advance.
I started writing it.
Then I got really busy withwork and what really was
daunting was writing 60, 70thousand000 words from scratch.
So I actually said, look, Ican't do one right now.
I was actually approachedseveral times when I was at IBM
(01:10):
by other publishers saying wethink you've got a book in you,
and it was actually 2019.
And Michael Levy, my speakingagent, said Andrew, you need a
book.
All the other speakers werepresent have books and then
they go on to speaking.
You've done it the other wayaround You're a speaker and
you're now writing a book.
What about you start a podcastand from that podcast series,
(01:31):
every episode could become achapter of the book, and that's
exactly what I did.
So, 2019, I started theDigitally Curious podcast,
interviewed more than 100 peopleand about 60 people have
appeared in the book.
Why now?
I think one I had the content.
Interestingly, I used AI totranscribe those 60 hours of
(01:51):
interviews into something Icould then use.
So, rather than having to write70,000 words from scratch, I
actually had half a millionwords that I could play with and
had to get those down intosomething that was interesting
enough to read and then put mycommentary around it.
And why now?
Ai is just so hot.
But I think people are almostmesmerized by AI being the only
technology out there.
(02:11):
There are so many othertechnologies that people need to
know about and I think thisbook helps them demystify
technology.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
In Digitally Curious, you emphasize that being
digitally curious is no longer aluxury but a necessity.
You emphasise that beingdigitally curious is no longer a
luxury but a necessity, socould you share a personal
experience where digitalcuriosity made tangible
differences in your career orbusiness?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I've been playing with technology from a very
early age.
As I mentioned in the book.
Around age six I was doingexperiments electronic
experiments with my father.
We joined some lamps up and inone configuration they glow
brightly, another configurationthey glow dimly.
And so we write down theoutcomes of those experiments in
a logbook and I wish I stillhad that logbook from those days
that I was doing it.
So I started being curiousabout technology from a very
(02:54):
early age.
I'm the person that has a brokenTV in front of them and says
can we actually fix it?
Can we make it work?
I studied as an engineer and Ithink that allows you to be
digitally curious.
We're trained to be digitallycurious.
I remember once I was doing anexperiment and the teacher said
you need to come into theexperiment knowing the answer to
(03:14):
the question.
So when you do the experiment,if the answer is five volts, you
know that's right or wrong.
So I was taught from a veryearly age to always be curious,
always be asking why, and solater on in life there have been
a lot of examples where beingdigitally curious has helped my
career.
I had a website from a veryearly age around 1994, I think I
had a website.
I had a domain name in 1999.
(03:36):
I've been playing with thistechnology well before others
did so I could be curious andthen, more importantly, I could
teach other people how to makeit impact their life and their
business.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Your book covers a wide array of topics, from AI to
quantum computing andself-sovereign identity, but
which of these technologies doyou think will have the most
significant impact on businessesin the next few years, and why?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It'd be easy for me to say AI, everything, but the
reason I looked at othertechnologies in the book is I
wanted people to be exposed towhat's coming next.
Quantum computing is probablyone area that I want to make
people aware of, and a lot ofpeople aren't aware of what we
call Q-Day.
Q-day is going to be the daywhen quantum computing is able
to decrypt everything that iscurrently encrypted.
(04:22):
Let me put that into simpleterms you do your banking and
when you do your banking online,there's a little padlock to say
that the information you'resending between your computer
and the bank is encrypted.
But if a bad actor, if aforeign national, is actually
recording that transaction, it'sdecrypted in 2024.
But in 2030, a quantum computercan actually decrypt that.
(04:43):
So what people need to be awareof now is the threat of QDA.
It's kind of our next Y2K.
They also then need to look athave we got quantum safe
encryption in our bank, in ourpharma company?
So they should be aware of that.
Self-sovereign identity probablyhas a greater impact going
forward, because it means thatusers are able to claw back
(05:04):
their own data.
They're able to claw back theirown identity.
At the moment, we give our dataaway to Google and Facebook and
Metra and all these differentwebsites and we don't actually
get anything in return.
What self-sovereign identitywill do is allow you and I to
have more control of our owndata.
When you pair that with AI andquantum and everything else pun
(05:25):
intended, there'll be a quantumshift in how we actually get
work done and how we transact inthe new world.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
You've interviewed over 100 global leaders for your
Digitally Curious podcast, andaround 60 are in the book.
Was there a particular insightor story from one of those
interviews that really shiftedyour thinking or direction?
In writing the book.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
There are a couple actually, and they were to do
with AI and they were actuallysome years ago, before ChatGPT
launched onto the stage.
And one of the guests wastalking about artificial general
intelligence, agi.
This is when computers and AIwill act more like human beings
in the way we think and remember.
This is before ChatGPT.
And he, as I said, where willwe actually see the acceleration
(06:10):
in AGI?
And he said really, when itcomes down to people investing a
lot of time and energy andfocus on this research area,
which is happening now.
But, more importantly, heactually said he had studied how
the brain works, because inorder to program a computer to
act like a human, you need tounderstand how humans think.
When I'm on stage and I explainhow chat GPT works, I say look,
(06:33):
massively oversimplifying it.
Chat GPT completes the nextword in a sentence.
It doesn't know whether whatit's telling you is right or
wrong, so it appears to behuman-like.
It's just mathematically doingwhat it's been trained to do.
And so this particular guest,peter Voss, was talking about
AGI and he said you know, I'veunderstood how the brain works.
I just think it's an amazingthing that we have sitting
(06:56):
inside our head that will always, I think, be more powerful and
more intelligent than any AI is.
And the other thing was aboutwhat we call observability and
explainability.
Once you set these AI systemsinto work, can you actually
check whether they're runningoff the rails, whether they're
doing things we don't expectthem to do?
And those two things reallymade me think about where AI is
(07:17):
going, the things we need tothink about as a race and as
business leaders.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
One of the unique aspects of your book is the
Curious Five and tips at the endof each chapter, offering
readers actionable steps.
Can you explain how thisframework came about and how
readers can apply it in theirbusiness?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
The Curious Five came about because every time I do a
public talk, I leave myaudience with five things to do
today, tomorrow, next week.
I've called myself theactionable futurist for a number
of years now, and so I want todifferentiate myself.
I'm not just talking about thefuture, I'm talking about the
near-term future, which is today, tomorrow, next week.
So those five things that Ileave my audience with, I
(07:56):
thought at the end of everychapter.
There are 22 chapters, so thereare five times 22 things that
you can do, and I thought it wasimportant to have some
actionable insights at the endof each chapter.
So I've read about quantum, I'veread about AI, I've read about
self-sovereign identity.
What can I do next tounderstand more?
And I've read a lot of AI booksrecently and they're great, but
(08:17):
they talk about the theory.
But what do I do?
How do I actually put that intoplay into my business?
Wiley were really keen that Iadd this at the end because they
wanted people to pick this bookup and say, every time I've
read a chapter, I've got fivethings that I can do.
And, importantly, the fivethings get harder and harder.
So the first one is quite easyand the fifth one.
Probably not everyone will do,but if they do, they're on the
(08:38):
path to being absolutelydigitally curious.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So in the introduction you asked readers
are you digitally curious?
What are the key traits of adigitally curious individual,
and how can leaders foster thismindset within their teams.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So digitally curious leaders are not just talking
about AI or talking about thistechnology or reading about it.
They're using it, and they'reusing it in a way that they have
that aha moment.
So, for example, I use a toolcalled otterai.
In plain form transcribes voicemeetings into text, and only
recently did I understand thatactually otterai has its own GPT
(09:13):
built in and so you can ask aquestion.
So if you've recorded a meetingwith permission, you can then
say who contributed most in thatmeeting, what are the follow-up
items, what are the threethings I committed to do by next
Thursday, and it actually givesyou some real intelligence
about what you've just beentalking about.
Now I started to use that andactually for the book, what I
did is I thought I want toactually see if I can create an
(09:38):
AI out of the book.
Openai actually allow you tocreate your own generative
pre-trained transformer or GPTbook.
Openai actually allow you tocreate your own generative
pre-trained transformer or GPT.
So I fed the PDF of the bookinto the GPT and now it sits
there and you can ask it anyquestion.
Now I think that's a trait of adigitally curious leader.
They said what if?
Can I do this.
Can I keep asking the AI to dosomething until it says no?
(09:59):
I think also, people really arevery curious if they then go and
listen to podcasts.
They go to events, they askencouraging questions, they play
with the technology, they signup for something new.
So more recently, google hadlaunched a tool called Notebook
LM it stands for NotebookLanguage Model.
Being curious again, I fed thePDF into Notebook LM and there
(10:21):
was a button there that said ifyou push this button, it will
create a podcast out of the book.
Five minutes later, I had twoAI-generated hosts, a male and a
female, chatting away as ifthey'd read the book cover to
cover, which they had, and Ithought to myself that's what I
want my clients to be doing.
I want them to go.
What if I've heard about thisnew tool?
Let's actually use it in a waythat we can actually use this at
(10:45):
work.
They're the traits of someonewho's really digitally curious.
But, importantly, once they'veuncovered something new, they
share it with the rest of theirteam.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
AI is a dominant theme in Digitally Curious.
With tools like ChatGPT and AIbecoming mainstream, what advice
would you give to leaders andbusinesses who are unsure how to
effectively integrate AI intotheir daily workflows?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You've got to start playing with it.
So I'm sure people have playedwith ChatGPT All of my audiences
.
When I ask for a show of handswho's played with it?
All the hands go up.
When I say who's used it everyday, most hands go down.
I think what's important is forpeople to play with it.
Keep asking it questions untilit says no.
Imagine if I was able to giveeveryone an always-on intern.
(11:29):
Basically, you get a freeintern by using these tools and
I've estimated that I probablysave two to three hours per day
using these tools.
I can either ask it tosummarize meetings I can ask it
to write me a draft of a pressrelease I'm trying to do or an
article for a journalist and Ican either ask it to summarize
meetings.
I can ask it to write me adraft of a press release I'm
trying to do, or an article fora journalist, and I can then go
and analyze that it can go offand actually do the research for
me.
So I'm actively using it everyday and every day I use it.
(11:52):
I find a different use.
I find a different way that Ican use it a different way.
I can ask a question.
A different way.
I can format data that goesinto it to it.
So my advice would be use itevery day.
Just as we send email every day, we probably go on WhatsApp
every day.
We've learned to integrate thatinto our daily workflow because
it gives us utility and itmakes our life easier.
(12:13):
Back in around 1994, I was thefirst of my friends to get a
mobile phone.
At the time everyone said whyhave you spent all this money,
andrew, as a student, on thispiece of plastic?
Slowly they could see that theutility of having a mobile phone
, being more contactable andbeing able to contact people
anywhere, was actually really,really useful.
So when you actually see howyour business processes are
(12:36):
accelerated by using these toolsevery day, you're going to have
that aha moment.
You're then going to go andinfect your team and say guys,
let's actually have a weeklyupdate where we share what we've
played with and how it'simpacting our workflow and how
we can actually get work done ina better way.
But it's so important thatsenior leaders are using this.
(12:56):
Don't basically delegate thisto the IT team.
If you're a senior manager oryou're on a board, don't expect
you've got an IT team lookingafter this.
You need to be trying the toolsthat your organization and your
organization's competitors areusing every day.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
You mentioned that technologies like AI and
blockchain are evolving rapidly,so how do you recommend
businesses to stay ahead of thecurve and avoid being
overwhelmed by these fast-paceddevelopments?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
If you were an alien and came to earth today, you
would expect that the onlytechnology out there is AI, ai
here, ai there.
Ai will change the way we work.
Ai will change my job.
Ai might take my job.
It's not just about thattechnology.
Years ago, we were talking aboutdigital transformation.
It's now transformation.
We're transforming businesseswith technology.
We talked about social media.
(13:45):
I think very soon we'll justtalk about media, because media
has multiple forms, and soeveryone's talking about AI at
the moment, but they're beingoverwhelmed with some of these
technologies and there's thisbig focus on AI, because I think
what's happened is we'veactually had 10 years of
innovation in about two, andbecause there's now this focus,
there's money being thrown atthese AI problems.
(14:06):
Back in 2017, the team atGoogle worked out how to do
generative, pre-trainedtransformers, and that's really
spawned these generative AItools.
We've seen such acceleration.
What I want people to see is seebeyond just AI.
The book talks about quantum.
It talks about self-sovereignidentity.
It talks about NFTs and Bitcoinand blockchain.
(14:26):
These technologies haven't goneaway, nor will they, but
combined with AI and othertechnologies connectivity,
mobile voice, those sorts ofthings it will really propel
businesses forward.
So I want people to look at therange of technologies.
So deliberately, I didn't justwrite an AI book, I wrote a book
that looked at a range oftechnologies.
In the back of the book there'sactually 200 different
(14:48):
technologies that are explainedin a paragraph or two.
So I would encourage people, ifthey buy the book, turn to the
back, see how many of thoseterms they know, and if they
don't, it's time to get morecurious.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Data privacy and security are huge concerns,
especially with the rise of AI.
Now in your book, you talkedabout safeguarding your digital
identity.
What should organizations bedoing to protect their data and
build trust with their customers?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
The first thing people should do when they get
the book is turn to Chapter 15.
Why?
Because it is probably the mostpractical part of the book.
Chapter 15 covers why you needa password manager, why you need
to have a password strategy,why you need to turn on
two-factor authentication.
Because I think, regardless ofany other technology in the book
, the last mile of defense isactually the employee.
(15:35):
If you don't have two-factorturned on your Gmail, your
LinkedIn, and you get hackedwith these AI tools out here
today.
Let me give you an example.
So if you haven't gottwo-factor authentication turned
on your Gmail and I hack intoit if I'm a smart hacker, I
don't let you know that I'm inthere.
I sit there for weeks, possiblymonths.
I learn the names of your kids,your family, your friends,
where you go traveling.
(15:55):
I then clone your voice,because your voice is all over
the internet.
And then one day you or someoneclose to you gets an urgent
message in your voice saying Ineed some money.
I really am stuck at the momentand they say things that only
your friends would know and youfoolishly say oh, it definitely
is Andrew, so I'm going to wirethat money to him.
(16:16):
This has happened.
So by having what I call afamily password, that will
alleviate that.
By having two-factorauthentication turned on, they
won't get in there in the firstplace, and not by reusing your
password everywhere, you staysafe in your personal life,
which then firewalls you frombeing attacked in your business
life, and there are now hugefines out there for data that
(16:37):
goes out into the ether, andpeople have been fined for that.
So I think what people shoulddo is go straight to Chapter 15,
look at how they can stay safeonline personally, and when
they've done that, they'llprobably, at the Curious Five,
go.
Well, those five things wereactually really easy to do, and
now I'm feeling more protectedabout my data online.
What else is there in the book?
So some really practical stepsthat could actually save you
(17:01):
from some real embarrassment atwork.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Andrew, you've spent over 30 years leading technology
companies and being at theforefront of tech trends In
Digitally Curious.
You reflect on your earlyexperiences with technology.
How did those experiences shapeyour perspective on the future
of work and AI?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I think by being a curious young boy helped me
through my life and, as Imentioned in the book, my father
and I did some experiments.
When I was just six years old,I had those 101 electronic kits
I got for Christmas.
I made a radio and a burgeralarm and those sorts of things
and then I went to studyengineering.
So I had some formative yearswhere I was comfortable around
(17:42):
technology.
I asked sort of questions and Ianswered my own questions by
playing with tech and astechnology has evolved mobile,
internet, ai, cloud, all thosesorts of things I played with
those tools to understand thembetter.
And so I think by starting atan early age, I'm so comfortable
with technology I'm hungry tounderstand how it works.
And if you throw another pieceof technology at us quantum AI I
(18:05):
know enough about a range oftopics to be able to educate
other people about that.
I think I was incredibly luckyto start off in a family that
allowed me to be curious that,for whatever reason, I got the
bug, the technology bug, and Iplayed with this tech.
I'm now that go-to person formy friends, my family and people
(18:27):
that I work for.
They ask me to come and presentabout AI.
They ask me to fix their Wi-Fibecause I've made a career, I've
made a life out ofunderstanding how technology can
impact you and actually helpyou in your personal and
professional life.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
So, looking ahead, what excites you most about the
future of AI and technology, andwhat should businesses be
preparing for as we enter thisnew frontier of digital
transformation?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So AI is not going away.
Will AI take my job?
No, but someone who knows howto use AI will take your job, so
you need to be aware of it now.
You need to be playing with itnow.
I think we're going to see inour lifetime getting very, very
close to what we call artificialgeneral intelligence, where AI
thinks as close as a human can.
The two things that AI willnever be able to do, experts
(19:09):
tell me, are feel empathy orlove, so there's still a role
for humans in society, but Ithink what we'll find, and what
I'm looking forward to, is theminutiae of our lives will be
replaced by AI agents, digitalagents that'll do some of the
bidding and some of the work forus.
What businesses should bepreparing for is a world where
jobs are going to be augmentednot necessarily replaced but
(19:31):
where there's boring, menialjobs in counting numbers or
doing things that can be done bya robot.
We're going to see thatreplaced.
What I will want to see, though, especially in the school
system, is the introduction ofmore teaching about critical
thinking.
So if an AI tells us the answerto something, can we dissect
that and work out whether thatanswer is right or is there a
(19:51):
better way to do it?
Ai works on what's come beforeus.
We actually need to stillinnovate and think creatively,
as humans do, about the newfrontiers and new things we can
do, but can we use AI to augmentthat and make things happen a
lot faster and get us closer tosolving cancer?
Get us closer to climate changesolutions a lot faster by using
(20:12):
these technologies that we havetoday?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So, andrew, I know that you run each of your
podcast guests through a quickfire round at the end of each
episode, so I thought I'd turnthe tables today and run you
through your own quick fireround Window, or aisle Window
your biggest hope for this yearand next.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
That we actually start seeing AI used by lots of
people and they use it for good.
I wish that.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
AI could do all of my .
My new day of my life.
The app you use the most onyour phone WhatsApp.
The best advice you'd everreceive.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Tell me it can't be done and I'll do it.
What are you reading at themoment?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'm reading a book written by Mustafa Suleiman, the
CEO of Microsoft.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
AI called the Coming Wave.
How do you want to beremembered as someone who brings
out the best in other people,as you are the actionable
futurist.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
what three actionable things should our audience do
today to become more digitallycurious?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Commit to spend a couple of hours a week playing
with new AI tools.
Commit to actually sharing thatinformation with friends and
family and read DigitallyCurious.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Thank you, andrew, and thank you for writing the
book.
I found it absolutelyfascinating.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Thank you for listening to Digitally Curious.
Andrew's new book is availableto order at digitallycuriousai.
Until next time, we invite youto stay digitally curious.
Welcome to Digitally Curious, a podcast to help you
navigate the future of AI andbeyond.
Your host is world-renownedfuturist and author of Digitally
Curious, Andrew Grill.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
In episode nine of the current series of the
podcast, I used the new GoogleNotebook LM tool to create a
podcast that reviewed my newbook Digitally.
Curious On this episode of thepodcast, I asked Carol-Anne
Ashley, host of the your Mind,Body Link podcast, to interview
me about the book.
She was one of the first toread the initial manuscript, so
(00:36):
she's been across the text for awhile.
I hope you enjoy the insightsfrom our discussion about the
book.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So first let's start off with the origins of the book
.
In it you mentioned, you had afew false starts.
So why this book and why?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
now?
Really good question.
I actually started writing abook back in 2009.
It was going to be calledTwitter for Business.
I had a publisher engaged.
I had an advance.
I started writing it.
Then I got really busy withwork and what really was
daunting was writing 60, 70thousand000 words from scratch.
So I actually said, look, Ican't do one right now.
I was actually approachedseveral times when I was at IBM
(01:10):
by other publishers saying wethink you've got a book in you,
and it was actually 2019.
And Michael Levy, my speakingagent, said Andrew, you need a
book.
All the other speakers werepresent have books and then
they go on to speaking.
You've done it the other wayaround You're a speaker and
you're now writing a book.
What about you start a podcastand from that podcast series,
(01:31):
every episode could become achapter of the book, and that's
exactly what I did.
So, 2019, I started theDigitally Curious podcast,
interviewed more than 100 peopleand about 60 people have
appeared in the book.
Why now?
I think one I had the content.
Interestingly, I used AI totranscribe those 60 hours of
(01:51):
interviews into something Icould then use.
So, rather than having to write70,000 words from scratch, I
actually had half a millionwords that I could play with and
had to get those down intosomething that was interesting
enough to read and then put mycommentary around it.
And why now?
Ai is just so hot.
But I think people are almostmesmerized by AI being the only
technology out there.
(02:11):
There are so many othertechnologies that people need to
know about and I think thisbook helps them demystify
technology.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
In Digitally Curious, you emphasize that being
digitally curious is no longer aluxury but a necessity.
You emphasise that beingdigitally curious is no longer a
luxury but a necessity, socould you share a personal
experience where digitalcuriosity made tangible
differences in your career orbusiness?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I've been playing with technology from a very
early age.
As I mentioned in the book.
Around age six I was doingexperiments electronic
experiments with my father.
We joined some lamps up and inone configuration they glow
brightly, another configurationthey glow dimly.
And so we write down theoutcomes of those experiments in
a logbook and I wish I stillhad that logbook from those days
that I was doing it.
So I started being curiousabout technology from a very
(02:54):
early age.
I'm the person that has a brokenTV in front of them and says
can we actually fix it?
Can we make it work?
I studied as an engineer and Ithink that allows you to be
digitally curious.
We're trained to be digitallycurious.
I remember once I was doing anexperiment and the teacher said
you need to come into theexperiment knowing the answer to
(03:14):
the question.
So when you do the experiment,if the answer is five volts, you
know that's right or wrong.
So I was taught from a veryearly age to always be curious,
always be asking why, and solater on in life there have been
a lot of examples where beingdigitally curious has helped my
career.
I had a website from a veryearly age around 1994, I think I
had a website.
I had a domain name in 1999.
(03:36):
I've been playing with thistechnology well before others
did so I could be curious andthen, more importantly, I could
teach other people how to makeit impact their life and their
business.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Your book covers a wide array of topics, from AI to
quantum computing andself-sovereign identity, but
which of these technologies doyou think will have the most
significant impact on businessesin the next few years, and why?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It'd be easy for me to say AI, everything, but the
reason I looked at othertechnologies in the book is I
wanted people to be exposed towhat's coming next.
Quantum computing is probablyone area that I want to make
people aware of, and a lot ofpeople aren't aware of what we
call Q-Day.
Q-day is going to be the daywhen quantum computing is able
to decrypt everything that iscurrently encrypted.
(04:22):
Let me put that into simpleterms you do your banking and
when you do your banking online,there's a little padlock to say
that the information you'resending between your computer
and the bank is encrypted.
But if a bad actor, if aforeign national, is actually
recording that transaction, it'sdecrypted in 2024.
But in 2030, a quantum computercan actually decrypt that.
(04:43):
So what people need to be awareof now is the threat of QDA.
It's kind of our next Y2K.
They also then need to look athave we got quantum safe
encryption in our bank, in ourpharma company?
So they should be aware of that.
Self-sovereign identity probablyhas a greater impact going
forward, because it means thatusers are able to claw back
(05:04):
their own data.
They're able to claw back theirown identity.
At the moment, we give our dataaway to Google and Facebook and
Metra and all these differentwebsites and we don't actually
get anything in return.
What self-sovereign identitywill do is allow you and I to
have more control of our owndata.
When you pair that with AI andquantum and everything else pun
(05:25):
intended, there'll be a quantumshift in how we actually get
work done and how we transact inthe new world.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
You've interviewed over 100 global leaders for your
Digitally Curious podcast, andaround 60 are in the book.
Was there a particular insightor story from one of those
interviews that really shiftedyour thinking or direction?
In writing the book.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
There are a couple actually, and they were to do
with AI and they were actuallysome years ago, before ChatGPT
launched onto the stage.
And one of the guests wastalking about artificial general
intelligence, agi.
This is when computers and AIwill act more like human beings
in the way we think and remember.
This is before ChatGPT.
And he, as I said, where willwe actually see the acceleration
(06:10):
in AGI?
And he said really, when itcomes down to people investing a
lot of time and energy andfocus on this research area,
which is happening now.
But, more importantly, heactually said he had studied how
the brain works, because inorder to program a computer to
act like a human, you need tounderstand how humans think.
When I'm on stage and I explainhow chat GPT works, I say look,
(06:33):
massively oversimplifying it.
Chat GPT completes the nextword in a sentence.
It doesn't know whether whatit's telling you is right or
wrong, so it appears to behuman-like.
It's just mathematically doingwhat it's been trained to do.
And so this particular guest,peter Voss, was talking about
AGI and he said you know, I'veunderstood how the brain works.
I just think it's an amazingthing that we have sitting
(06:56):
inside our head that will always, I think, be more powerful and
more intelligent than any AI is.
And the other thing was aboutwhat we call observability and
explainability.
Once you set these AI systemsinto work, can you actually
check whether they're runningoff the rails, whether they're
doing things we don't expectthem to do?
And those two things reallymade me think about where AI is
(07:17):
going, the things we need tothink about as a race and as
business leaders.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
One of the unique aspects of your book is the
Curious Five and tips at the endof each chapter, offering
readers actionable steps.
Can you explain how thisframework came about and how
readers can apply it in theirbusiness?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
The Curious Five came about because every time I do a
public talk, I leave myaudience with five things to do
today, tomorrow, next week.
I've called myself theactionable futurist for a number
of years now, and so I want todifferentiate myself.
I'm not just talking about thefuture, I'm talking about the
near-term future, which is today, tomorrow, next week.
So those five things that Ileave my audience with, I
(07:56):
thought at the end of everychapter.
There are 22 chapters, so thereare five times 22 things that
you can do, and I thought it wasimportant to have some
actionable insights at the endof each chapter.
So I've read about quantum, I'veread about AI, I've read about
self-sovereign identity.
What can I do next tounderstand more?
And I've read a lot of AI booksrecently and they're great, but
(08:17):
they talk about the theory.
But what do I do?
How do I actually put that intoplay into my business?
Wiley were really keen that Iadd this at the end because they
wanted people to pick this bookup and say, every time I've
read a chapter, I've got fivethings that I can do.
And, importantly, the fivethings get harder and harder.
So the first one is quite easyand the fifth one.
Probably not everyone will do,but if they do, they're on the
(08:38):
path to being absolutelydigitally curious.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So in the introduction you asked readers
are you digitally curious?
What are the key traits of adigitally curious individual,
and how can leaders foster thismindset within their teams.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So digitally curious leaders are not just talking
about AI or talking about thistechnology or reading about it.
They're using it, and they'reusing it in a way that they have
that aha moment.
So, for example, I use a toolcalled otterai.
In plain form transcribes voicemeetings into text, and only
recently did I understand thatactually otterai has its own GPT
(09:13):
built in and so you can ask aquestion.
So if you've recorded a meetingwith permission, you can then
say who contributed most in thatmeeting, what are the follow-up
items, what are the threethings I committed to do by next
Thursday, and it actually givesyou some real intelligence
about what you've just beentalking about.
Now I started to use that andactually for the book, what I
did is I thought I want toactually see if I can create an
(09:38):
AI out of the book.
Openai actually allow you tocreate your own generative
pre-trained transformer or GPTbook.
Openai actually allow you tocreate your own generative
pre-trained transformer or GPT.
So I fed the PDF of the bookinto the GPT and now it sits
there and you can ask it anyquestion.
Now I think that's a trait of adigitally curious leader.
They said what if?
Can I do this.
Can I keep asking the AI to dosomething until it says no?
(09:59):
I think also, people really arevery curious if they then go and
listen to podcasts.
They go to events, they askencouraging questions, they play
with the technology, they signup for something new.
So more recently, google hadlaunched a tool called Notebook
LM it stands for NotebookLanguage Model.
Being curious again, I fed thePDF into Notebook LM and there
(10:21):
was a button there that said ifyou push this button, it will
create a podcast out of the book.
Five minutes later, I had twoAI-generated hosts, a male and a
female, chatting away as ifthey'd read the book cover to
cover, which they had, and Ithought to myself that's what I
want my clients to be doing.
I want them to go.
What if I've heard about thisnew tool?
Let's actually use it in a waythat we can actually use this at
(10:45):
work.
They're the traits of someonewho's really digitally curious.
But, importantly, once they'veuncovered something new, they
share it with the rest of theirteam.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
AI is a dominant theme in Digitally Curious.
With tools like ChatGPT and AIbecoming mainstream, what advice
would you give to leaders andbusinesses who are unsure how to
effectively integrate AI intotheir daily workflows?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You've got to start playing with it.
So I'm sure people have playedwith ChatGPT All of my audiences
.
When I ask for a show of handswho's played with it?
All the hands go up.
When I say who's used it everyday, most hands go down.
I think what's important is forpeople to play with it.
Keep asking it questions untilit says no.
Imagine if I was able to giveeveryone an always-on intern.
(11:29):
Basically, you get a freeintern by using these tools and
I've estimated that I probablysave two to three hours per day
using these tools.
I can either ask it tosummarize meetings I can ask it
to write me a draft of a pressrelease I'm trying to do or an
article for a journalist and Ican either ask it to summarize
meetings.
I can ask it to write me adraft of a press release I'm
trying to do, or an article fora journalist, and I can then go
and analyze that it can go offand actually do the research for
me.
So I'm actively using it everyday and every day I use it.
(11:52):
I find a different use.
I find a different way that Ican use it a different way.
I can ask a question.
A different way.
I can format data that goesinto it to it.
So my advice would be use itevery day.
Just as we send email every day, we probably go on WhatsApp
every day.
We've learned to integrate thatinto our daily workflow because
it gives us utility and itmakes our life easier.
(12:13):
Back in around 1994, I was thefirst of my friends to get a
mobile phone.
At the time everyone said whyhave you spent all this money,
andrew, as a student, on thispiece of plastic?
Slowly they could see that theutility of having a mobile phone
, being more contactable andbeing able to contact people
anywhere, was actually really,really useful.
So when you actually see howyour business processes are
(12:36):
accelerated by using these toolsevery day, you're going to have
that aha moment.
You're then going to go andinfect your team and say guys,
let's actually have a weeklyupdate where we share what we've
played with and how it'simpacting our workflow and how
we can actually get work done ina better way.
But it's so important thatsenior leaders are using this.
(12:56):
Don't basically delegate thisto the IT team.
If you're a senior manager oryou're on a board, don't expect
you've got an IT team lookingafter this.
You need to be trying the toolsthat your organization and your
organization's competitors areusing every day.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
You mentioned that technologies like AI and
blockchain are evolving rapidly,so how do you recommend
businesses to stay ahead of thecurve and avoid being
overwhelmed by these fast-paceddevelopments?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
If you were an alien and came to earth today, you
would expect that the onlytechnology out there is AI, ai
here, ai there.
Ai will change the way we work.
Ai will change my job.
Ai might take my job.
It's not just about thattechnology.
Years ago, we were talking aboutdigital transformation.
It's now transformation.
We're transforming businesseswith technology.
We talked about social media.
(13:45):
I think very soon we'll justtalk about media, because media
has multiple forms, and soeveryone's talking about AI at
the moment, but they're beingoverwhelmed with some of these
technologies and there's thisbig focus on AI, because I think
what's happened is we'veactually had 10 years of
innovation in about two, andbecause there's now this focus,
there's money being thrown atthese AI problems.
(14:06):
Back in 2017, the team atGoogle worked out how to do
generative, pre-trainedtransformers, and that's really
spawned these generative AItools.
We've seen such acceleration.
What I want people to see is seebeyond just AI.
The book talks about quantum.
It talks about self-sovereignidentity.
It talks about NFTs and Bitcoinand blockchain.
(14:26):
These technologies haven't goneaway, nor will they, but
combined with AI and othertechnologies connectivity,
mobile voice, those sorts ofthings it will really propel
businesses forward.
So I want people to look at therange of technologies.
So deliberately, I didn't justwrite an AI book, I wrote a book
that looked at a range oftechnologies.
In the back of the book there'sactually 200 different
(14:48):
technologies that are explainedin a paragraph or two.
So I would encourage people, ifthey buy the book, turn to the
back, see how many of thoseterms they know, and if they
don't, it's time to get morecurious.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Data privacy and security are huge concerns,
especially with the rise of AI.
Now in your book, you talkedabout safeguarding your digital
identity.
What should organizations bedoing to protect their data and
build trust with their customers?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
The first thing people should do when they get
the book is turn to Chapter 15.
Why?
Because it is probably the mostpractical part of the book.
Chapter 15 covers why you needa password manager, why you need
to have a password strategy,why you need to turn on
two-factor authentication.
Because I think, regardless ofany other technology in the book
, the last mile of defense isactually the employee.
(15:35):
If you don't have two-factorturned on your Gmail, your
LinkedIn, and you get hackedwith these AI tools out here
today.
Let me give you an example.
So if you haven't gottwo-factor authentication turned
on your Gmail and I hack intoit if I'm a smart hacker, I
don't let you know that I'm inthere.
I sit there for weeks, possiblymonths.
I learn the names of your kids,your family, your friends,
where you go traveling.
(15:55):
I then clone your voice,because your voice is all over
the internet.
And then one day you or someoneclose to you gets an urgent
message in your voice saying Ineed some money.
I really am stuck at the momentand they say things that only
your friends would know and youfoolishly say oh, it definitely
is Andrew, so I'm going to wirethat money to him.
(16:16):
This has happened.
So by having what I call afamily password, that will
alleviate that.
By having two-factorauthentication turned on, they
won't get in there in the firstplace, and not by reusing your
password everywhere, you staysafe in your personal life,
which then firewalls you frombeing attacked in your business
life, and there are now hugefines out there for data that
(16:37):
goes out into the ether, andpeople have been fined for that.
So I think what people shoulddo is go straight to Chapter 15,
look at how they can stay safeonline personally, and when
they've done that, they'llprobably, at the Curious Five,
go.
Well, those five things wereactually really easy to do, and
now I'm feeling more protectedabout my data online.
What else is there in the book?
So some really practical stepsthat could actually save you
(17:01):
from some real embarrassment atwork.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Andrew, you've spent over 30 years leading technology
companies and being at theforefront of tech trends In
Digitally Curious.
You reflect on your earlyexperiences with technology.
How did those experiences shapeyour perspective on the future
of work and AI?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I think by being a curious young boy helped me
through my life and, as Imentioned in the book, my father
and I did some experiments.
When I was just six years old,I had those 101 electronic kits
I got for Christmas.
I made a radio and a burgeralarm and those sorts of things
and then I went to studyengineering.
So I had some formative yearswhere I was comfortable around
(17:42):
technology.
I asked sort of questions and Ianswered my own questions by
playing with tech and astechnology has evolved mobile,
internet, ai, cloud, all thosesorts of things I played with
those tools to understand thembetter.
And so I think by starting atan early age, I'm so comfortable
with technology I'm hungry tounderstand how it works.
And if you throw another pieceof technology at us quantum AI I
(18:05):
know enough about a range oftopics to be able to educate
other people about that.
I think I was incredibly luckyto start off in a family that
allowed me to be curious that,for whatever reason, I got the
bug, the technology bug, and Iplayed with this tech.
I'm now that go-to person formy friends, my family and people
(18:27):
that I work for.
They ask me to come and presentabout AI.
They ask me to fix their Wi-Fibecause I've made a career, I've
made a life out ofunderstanding how technology can
impact you and actually helpyou in your personal and
professional life.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
So, looking ahead, what excites you most about the
future of AI and technology, andwhat should businesses be
preparing for as we enter thisnew frontier of digital
transformation?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So AI is not going away.
Will AI take my job?
No, but someone who knows howto use AI will take your job, so
you need to be aware of it now.
You need to be playing with itnow.
I think we're going to see inour lifetime getting very, very
close to what we call artificialgeneral intelligence, where AI
thinks as close as a human can.
The two things that AI willnever be able to do, experts
(19:09):
tell me, are feel empathy orlove, so there's still a role
for humans in society, but Ithink what we'll find, and what
I'm looking forward to, is theminutiae of our lives will be
replaced by AI agents, digitalagents that'll do some of the
bidding and some of the work forus.
What businesses should bepreparing for is a world where
jobs are going to be augmentednot necessarily replaced but
(19:31):
where there's boring, menialjobs in counting numbers or
doing things that can be done bya robot.
We're going to see thatreplaced.
What I will want to see, though, especially in the school
system, is the introduction ofmore teaching about critical
thinking.
So if an AI tells us the answerto something, can we dissect
that and work out whether thatanswer is right or is there a
(19:51):
better way to do it?
Ai works on what's come beforeus.
We actually need to stillinnovate and think creatively,
as humans do, about the newfrontiers and new things we can
do, but can we use AI to augmentthat and make things happen a
lot faster and get us closer tosolving cancer?
Get us closer to climate changesolutions a lot faster by using
(20:12):
these technologies that we havetoday?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So, andrew, I know that you run each of your
podcast guests through a quickfire round at the end of each
episode, so I thought I'd turnthe tables today and run you
through your own quick fireround Window, or aisle Window
your biggest hope for this yearand next.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
That we actually start seeing AI used by lots of
people and they use it for good.
I wish that.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
AI could do all of my .
My new day of my life.
The app you use the most onyour phone WhatsApp.
The best advice you'd everreceive.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Tell me it can't be done and I'll do it.
What are you reading at themoment?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'm reading a book written by Mustafa Suleiman, the
CEO of Microsoft.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
AI called the Coming Wave.
How do you want to beremembered as someone who brings
out the best in other people,as you are the actionable
futurist.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
what three actionable things should our audience do
today to become more digitallycurious?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Commit to spend a couple of hours a week playing
with new AI tools.
Commit to actually sharing thatinformation with friends and
family and read DigitallyCurious.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Thank you, andrew, and thank you for writing the
book.
I found it absolutelyfascinating.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Thank you for listening to Digitally Curious.
Andrew's new book is availableto order at digitallycuriousai.
Until next time, we invite youto stay digitally curious.
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