June 3, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, Andrew Grill welcomes back Chris Juneau from SAP Concur to discuss the latest findings from the 2025 CFO Insights report, “Action for Growth.” The conversation explores the evolving role of CFOs, the growing impact of AI and automation in finance, and the introduction of new agentic AI capabilities within SAP Concur’s platform.
Key Topics Covered
- Evolution of CFO Mindset:
The shift from “repositioning for growth” to “action for growth” reflects CFOs moving from reactive strategies to actively driving business expansion. - Expanded Research Scope:
This year’s report surveyed not only 350 CFOs but also 115 HR and 150 IT leaders, providing a more holistic understanding of business pressures and cross-functional collaboration. - Top Challenges for CFOs in 2025:
- Geopolitical tensions cited as the top external challenge by 37% of CFOs
- Concern over worsening economic conditions has declined
- A dramatic rise in manual processes as a pain point
- AI’s Transformational Role in Finance:
- Adoption of generative AI is now mission-critical for managing data overload and driving efficiency.
- AI is being used for forecasting, closing the books, fraud monitoring and creating new pricing models.
- SAP Concur’s “Verify” tool now automatically audits 100% of expense reports, with 97% requiring no human intervention.
- Agentic AI & SAP Joule:
- Introduction of “Joule,” SAP’s generative AI copilot, embedded across SAP applications.
- Joule automates mundane tasks, pre-audits expense reports, and provides real-time policy compliance checks.
- Joule acts as an agentic AI, orchestrating decisions and actions across multiple business processes, not just within finance.
- Integration and Real-Time Data:
- SAP Concur now integrates with payment providers like MasterCard and American Express to capture real-time authorisation data, streamlining expense reporting and improving categorisation.
- Data Privacy & Security:
- All financial data processed by Joule is contained within the customer’s environment and is not exposed to external AI sources.
- Data is anonymised when used for model training, ensuring compliance with strict privacy standards.
- Customisation & Future-Proofing:
- SAP’s Business Data Cloud enables organisations to unify and govern all SAP and third-party data, supporting custom AI queries across previously siloed data sets.
Resources & Further Reading
SAP Concur CFO Insights Report
Upcoming Events
Catch Andrew Grill and Chris Juneau on stage at Fusion Exchange in London on June 12.
Thanks for listening to Digitally Curious. You can buy the book that showcases these episodes at curious.click/order
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Digitally Curious, brought to you by SAP
Concur.
Your host is world-renownedfuturist and author of Digitally
Curious, Andrew Grill.
Every episode is filled withactionable advice about
technology that will helpenhance you and your business.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Today on the show, we have a returning guest, chris
Janoo, senior Vice President andHead of Product Marketing at
SAP Concur.
Chris was on the show lastseason when we looked at
insights from their 2024 CFOInsights Report Repositioning
for Growth.
He's back again to look atinsights from their 2025 report
titled Action for Growth.
We'll also hear about newagentic AI capabilities from the
(00:42):
platform.
Welcome again, chris.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Thank you, andrew, great to see you and speak to
you again.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So since our last conversation, you've taken on
the role of SPP, of productmarketing, at SAP Concur.
Tell us what you're doing inthis new role.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
In my new role, andrew, I'm even more focused on
growth than I was in myprevious role, and by growth I
mean looking at what we call thefive Ps, but it's really four
out of the five Ps positioning,placement, packaging and pricing
and so my team is bringing anoutside-in view of the
marketplace to enable ourproduct engineering team to
develop the products thatdeliver the outcomes our
customers seek.
You know so.
Product engineering owns thefifth P and then last in this
(01:21):
new role, and it fits right intothe conversation we're going to
have about our 2025 CFOinsights.
I'm spending a lot more timewith the SAP Concur CFO
specifically around growthinitiatives.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So how does the shift in report title from
repositioning for growth toaction for growth reflect the
evolution of CFO strategies andmindset over the last year,
moving from repositioning toactively leading the charge for
further expansion?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You know, andrew and I in the 2025, one of the big
numbers that surveyed.
The big number that stood outto me was 81% of CFOs see
themselves as the primarydrivers of business growth,
which is one of the manyhighlights, and there's a
growing sentiment, particularlyamong SVPs and other leaders,
that this responsibility shouldbe shared.
And so this is where it'ssomewhat of a paradox CFOs see
(02:10):
themselves as the primary driver, but the rest of the C-suite
because we expanded the researchwhich we'll talk about in a
moment sees that as more of acollaborative effort and not
just solely the purview offinance, and that it requires
more coordination acrossmarketing, product HR, it, which
(02:31):
is exactly where I'm findingmyself alongside with the CFO
and so that, when you layer ontop, you know AI.
The digital transformationbeing driven by AI creates an
enormous opportunity fororganizations to really optimize
their business, grow theirbusiness, while also controlling
(02:51):
their costs.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So you mentioned this 2025 survey.
You expanded its scope, so,rather than just HR leaders, you
looked at 350 CFOs, also 115 HRand 150 IT leaders, compared to
just 300 finance leaders lastyear.
So how did incorporating theseadditional viewpoints enrich the
findings and provide that moreholistic understanding of the
business landscape for CFOs?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
We decided to expand the personas to include HR and
IT leaders this year to have abetter understanding of the
pressures concerns and whatsuccess looks like in these key
business functions and what wastheir working relationship with
the finance function of thepressures concerns and what
success looks like in these keybusiness functions and what was
their working relationship withthe finance function Selfishly,
this was also trying tounderstand how the C-suite buys
technology and so we were doingit in part to better understand
(03:36):
how we message and position, butit proved very valuable to
ultimately to all sources oforganization and how we go,
build products and services, andalso it's helping us drive our
technology investments and,ultimately, in how we serve our
customers.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You mentioned some of the findings already, but maybe
you could look at some of yourown key highlights from the
report and did anythingchallenge or surprise you from
the findings compared to lastyear?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
The good news is this is our third report, so now we
have three years to look backand now we have infused the
point of view of IT and HRleaders.
But a few things stand out thisyear versus last year, from a
CFO's perspective, 37% of CFOscited geopolitical tensions as
their top external challenge.
This year that's up from 11%last year.
(04:22):
And, just for context, thisreport was done prior to January
of this year and so we allunderstand what's happened since
January of this year.
Certainly in the US that'shaving an impact.
So even before January, 37% ofCFOs were citing geopolitical
(04:43):
tensions as their top externalchallenge, up from 11%.
Second, we saw a% of CFOs wereciting geopolitical tensions as
their top external challenge, upfrom 11%.
Second, we saw a decrease inCFOs being worried about
worsening economic conditions astheir top challenge, declining
from 55% to 41%.
And that's also whichpre-January 20th, you might say
oh okay, that seemed robusteconomy and so forth.
(05:04):
Of course, that's up for debatenow and then the last shift we
saw that which was significantis in 2023, going back to 23
versus 24, only 1% of CFOslisted manual processes as a top
challenge.
In 2025, we're seeing 38% arestated that treating manual
(05:25):
processes and remedying thosemanual processes is now a top
challenge.
So a significant, significantincrease.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So the report highlights that finance leaders
are now spearheading expansionefforts after repositioning for
growth.
So how has the role of the CFOevolved over the last few years,
particularly in transformingfrom managing downturns to
driving growth, and how does theimpact of generative AI help
them in their role?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I think there's a few points to that.
I think, tying back first tothe 1% to the 38% in terms of
focus on those manual processes,I think that CFOs' experience
with AI technology and wherethey've infused it within the
organization with the support ofIT, they're seeing the real
benefits and now they're lookingfor other problems to go solve,
(06:11):
particularly those manualprocesses.
Second, the CFOs are overloadedwith data.
All the applications that theyuse generate vast amounts of
information and data and theCFOs rely on data to make quick,
informed business decisions inan ever-changing environment.
But with more and more data tointerpret, the application of
(06:32):
generative AI now becomesmission critical in helping CFOs
make those decisions.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So I believe there's a huge opportunity to build
influence through collaborationwithin the C-suite, and you've
alluded to that.
So where do you see the mostsignificant untapped potential
for collaboration betweenfinance, it, hr across an?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
organization.
Finance leaders had theopportunity, through shared
ownership of growth initiatives,to get buy-in from their peers
in the C-suite.
And the shared ownership modeldoesn't diminish a CFO's
influence anyway.
Instead, I believe, as Ibelieve you do, it enhances the
CFO's influence anyway.
Instead, I believe, as Ibelieve you do, it enhances the
CFO's influence by makingfinance a unifying force within
the organization.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
So when we look at how AI can help every department
, you say in the report thatinternally, manual processes
have become enemy number one,spiking from 1% to 38% of CFOs
cited them as a top challenge injust two years.
So why has this become such apressing issue and what does
this shift indicate aboutfinance priorities?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Andrew, I think the growing adoption of AI is
driving this shift.
A few years ago, generative AIsome would say was a parlor
trick.
In terms of Gartner's hypecycle it was on the upswing.
But each year, as CFOs andtheir organizations and their
competitors have adopted AI,they're seeing the benefits now
(07:51):
from those investments.
And this year's top goal forfueling expansion comes first by
optimizing cost drivingefficiency, and finance leaders
are turning to automation and AIto drive the performance, with
a focus on, as I said that,going from 1% to the 38% in
terms of automating those manualprocesses, so the net-net.
They're seeing the benefits oftheir initial AI investments
(08:13):
bearing fruit and now they'relooking for other opportunities
to drive those greaterefficiencies, ultimately to fuel
their growth.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So one thing that jumped out for me in the 2025
report was this dramaticincrease in AI automation for
general tasks.
Perhaps you could share some ofthe most impactful AI use cases
you're seeing in financedepartments today.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Certainly, finance departments we know are
typically not growing in mostorganizations and especially
even companies I've spoken withthat are going through mergers
and acquisitions.
Those groups typically aren'tgrowing.
So AI has the opportunity toautomate those mundane financial
tasks and so we're seeing AIteams use it for forecasting,
using for closing the quarterand so forth, and our report
(08:57):
significantly at AI automationis creating new pricing models,
which jumped from 5% to 22%.
New pricing models which jumpedfrom 5% to 22%.
Ai is being used for fraudmonitoring, which rose from 28%
to 45%.
In addition, sap Concur we evenintroduced Verify Concur Verify
a few years ago, which is sortof a self-serve audit solution
(09:17):
for expense reporting and itautomatically checks 100% of
expense reports to identifypotential compliance issues and
then has then the company'sauditors then go focus on those
specific reports.
It uses AI and machine learningthat we've developed over the
past decade.
So imagine finance organizationshave to make a choice Do I
(09:41):
manually audit 100% of myexpense claims?
Do I do a random sample oftypically 18% to 20%?
No, I don't have to make thosechoices.
I can evaluate 100% of expenseclaims with Verify and then have
my auditors look at thosequote-unquote reports that were
flagged as an example fromJanuary 2022 to June 2023, we
(10:06):
interrogated almost 3 millionexpense reports pass through
Verify.
63.7 million audit checks wereconducted automatically without
human intervention.
And then 97% of those auditchecks failed didn't require a
human.
Only 3% of the expense reportsliterally required a human
auditor.
(10:27):
So imagine the scale if you'rea CFO sitting there saying, okay
, I've automated 100, I canverify or validate 100% of my
expense claims.
97% were done without humanintervention.
So that's one example.
So if you're a CFO, you say,okay, where can I apply this to
my other financial processes?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
What I say to all my clients is that AI is really
great at things that need speedand scale, and this is one great
example of that having allthose things run by Verify.
So you alluded to the Gartnerhype cycle and GenDriv AI last
year was certainly high on that.
I don't know about you, but myLinkedIn feed today is just full
(11:08):
of people talking about agenticAI or AI agents.
So if 2024 was all aboutgenerative AI, 2025 is all about
agentic AI, and you recentlyannounced some new agentic AI
capabilities called AIJewel.
Can you tell us?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
more about these.
Jewel is SAP's generative AIco-pilot.
These Joule is SAP's generativeAI co-pilot and we've now
integrated Joule into SAP ConcurSolutions.
And Joule is being integratedacross all the SAP applications
and we're excited about thisintegration because it'll
automate some of thehistorically mundane tasks for
employees, specifically withinexpense management, and Concur
(11:42):
Expense is an example.
Joule helps to ensure expensereports are ready for submission
, so Jul will look over and say,hey, you might want to check
this and that's a capabilitythat's coming before you submit,
literally sort of pre-auditing,and it does two things First,
hey, did you mistype something?
So, second, likelihood of thatexpense claim being returned for
(12:03):
correction.
And then, third, it also putsthe employee on notice that hey,
there's technology that'swatching what I'm doing, so it
can benefit the employee forless returned expense claims, so
faster reimbursement.
But it also serves as areminder to employees that hey,
even before I'm submitting, whatI'm potentially claiming on my
(12:26):
expense claim is being reviewed.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Maybe you could give us in a nutshell what is Agentic
AI and how does Joule performthat role as an agentic or an AI
agent?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Joule is the co-pilot , so Joule sits on top of our
application.
You could be in SuccessFactors,the HR system, as a manager and
Joule could say, hey, you nowhave an expense report to
approve and, without getting outof that SuccessFactors
application, you immediately,within Joule, say is there any
(13:00):
exceptions to this expensereport?
No, therefore I approve.
And so that's one example ofJuul.
Specifically with regard toagentic AI, it's about creating
these autonomous decision-makingagents that can work across
processes, and then Juul will bepart of that orchestration
across the processes.
(13:20):
That's the thing.
So when we think of AI ingenerative AI, it's looking at
sets of data with regard to thespecific application, we have
many use cases I'm sure I'llhighlight in a moment.
But then the agentic AI how canI go across processes to make
decisions on my behalf and do itin an automated fashion?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
What I tell all my clients is whatever tool they're
using, they need to really asktheir vendors are they actually
AI enabling the tools?
And clearly you are.
So what inspired SAP Concur todevelop Joule, and how does it
fit into the broader SAP AIstrategy?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Well, sap has a wealth of applications which,
generating tremendous amounts ofdata and so forth, and having
Joule, this AI co-pilotassistant, which can now
traverse all the applicationsand it's always on, so,
regardless of where you'reworking, it can help you work
more efficiently.
With the example that I citedearlier, with approving a simple
(14:21):
expense claim while even thoughyou're in another SAP
application, and then byembedding Juul into Concur
Expense and Concur Travel, webrought our portfolio one step
closer to another step inautomating travel and expense
process.
That's seamless across ourcustomers, and so it's going to
result, we believe, in betterdecision making, but also better
(14:43):
experience for managers andalso the end users as they
perform their task, as theyeither book their travel or
complete their expense claimpost-travel.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So maybe you could walk us through what the most
common pain points are inexpense management that Juul
aims to solve.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
One of the things that we're looking for Juul to
help solve is answer thoseemployees' questions before they
travel.
I can talk to many of ourcustomers and their employees
who reads their travel policyprior to traveling.
I would ensure that's a prettydry document and one that's not
reviewed too often.
So before booking travel, Jewel, am I allowed to take business
(15:22):
class, since my travel is overeight hours from Phoenix,
Arizona to the UK?
So being able to interrogateloading up your travel policy,
your entire T&E policy, is onegreat example before even
booking the trip.
Another is travel requests,very common in Europe and also
in Asia Pacific.
(15:42):
Pre-travel authorization is nowtoday.
Traditionally, users would gousing Concur Travel.
Let me see what my trip's goingto cost.
You know, Chris, come fromPhoenix to the UK.
Okay, my air is going to looklike this.
I think if I rent a car, it'sgoing to look like this.
My hotel rates are going tolook like this.
Now, with Juul, Juul create atravel request for me.
(16:08):
I am traveling to London toconcur Fusion in London, to meet
Andrew and the rest of ourcustomers and partners.
How much is it going to cost?
And Joule will say you'retaking air ride, share hotel and
immediately give me that, Isubmit it for my boss to approve
and ultimately that beginscreating my expense report.
It just saves tremendous amountof time and gives me a more
accurate estimate of my travelcosts.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Now, one thing that's really important for both
employees and managers iscompliance with policy.
So how does Juul ensureaccuracy and compliance when
automating expensecategorization and policy checks
?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Before even submission you know submission
of the expense claim just asyour EA was doing previously.
It's looking like, hey, youknow, you're missing a taxi here
, how did you go from there tothere?
So it's smart enough to look atthat expense claim, that
timeline, to say, hey, theseexpenses align.
So in doing so, you're drivinggreater compliance, but you're
(17:04):
also helping the employee bemore efficient, which is
extremely important for thefrequent travelers such as
myself and yourself.
And as part of thatsimplification, it also means
fewer support cases, betteremployee experience, greater
efficiency, higher reimbursementtimes and ultimately, everyone
(17:25):
benefits the employee, thefinance administrators who are
managing the travel and expenseprocess, and then the managers
of those employees.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
SAP Concur is not the only piece in the travel
solution, so how does Juulintegrate with existing payment
providers like American Expressand MasterCard to deliver
real-time insights?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
We've integrated what we call RTA data real-time
authorization with MasterCardand now with American Express.
And what real-timeauthorization data?
And you've likely experiencedit, and all of us listening to
this podcast experience this intheir personal life You're
tapping your personal card,whether you be at a prep manager
(18:04):
or somewhere else you know,buying quick lunch or coffee,
and you immediately get a textnotification.
You know, x transaction on thisdate.
That's a real-timeauthorization notice.
We're now able to capture thatreal-time authorization
information as another digitaldata point, which now with AI,
(18:26):
then says oh, andrew was at prepmanager, tapped it, it was, you
know, 10 pounds and so forth.
Ah, it's likely lunch and itwas on this date.
So let me start creating theexpense claim even before that
credit card transaction arrives,maybe in 24 to 48 hours later,
within concur expense and so.
So it's another piece of richinformation.
(18:48):
And if it's a big amount, joulewould then say hey, andrew, it
was maybe 50 pounds at prepmanager.
Did you have others with you?
Should this be calledentertainment expense or a lunch
expense?
Who are those other attendees?
So those are the examples that,using another rich source of
information, create that expenseclaim.
(19:08):
Begin now applying policy.
As soon as you tap helpingsaying was this just an
individual meal expense or basedon the value?
Maybe it was an entertainmentexpense and therefore I need
more information.
So at the moment of tap, andrewcan then say you're right,
(19:28):
absolutely.
I took Chris Juno out.
I took Alistair Kent out whojoined me.
Great, I don't have to thinkwhen I'm back in the office, in
my home office in three weeksokay, 50 pounds at PretManager.
I knew I was out.
Who was I with?
Do I go to my calendar andfigure it out?
No, you'd already captured theinformation at that point.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
So everyone's worried about data privacy and security
.
So what measures are in placeto protect sensitive financial
and personal data when usingJuul?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Data privacy and security is top of mind for
everyone when it comes to, firstoff, protecting their rich
financial data and, second,protecting it from being
vacuumed up into these largelanguage models that can contain
sensitive information.
(20:17):
So all the information that iscollected and stored within Juul
is completely contained.
None of this financialinformation that Juul is
interrogating is ever exposedexternally to any other AI
sources.
It's all contained within ourcustomer's, our customer's
(20:38):
environment.
So none of that information isever exposed outside.
Quote, unquote, the four wallsof this, of the expense
management process, and thenalso, as we're analyzing that
data collectively across ourcustomers, we're anonymizing
that data as part of the overallprocess.
So there's no PIA informationthat's being scrutinized, that's
(21:00):
being retained, and then allthe information that we are
using is being anonymized as webuild our models.
But all our models isabsolutely being contained
within Concur Expense and notbeing exposed externally.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
So we talked about how Joule can help with policy
compliance.
In what ways can Joule helpbusinesses identify cost-saving
opportunities?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
First it begins, as I said, the 1% to 38% is
automating, and throughautomation you have that rich
information.
And so, with this automation,faster processing of expense
claims, tracking its policy andapprovals, and so you're
bringing wealth of information,cost efficiency, smarter, more
accurate expense categorizationand, ultimately, reconciliation.
(21:44):
Better views, richer insightsin terms of how you're doing
against budget.
And then identifying and wehave many use cases of where
we're employing AI.
We were talking about Verifyearlier is reducing risk
management and potential fraudis this overall process.
(22:04):
So there's cost savings andcompliance.
What I like to say and I mayhave said it when we previously
spoke AI traditionallyorganizations have had to make a
tradeoff between efficiency,the human experience and,
ultimately, compliance.
Driving compliance in manyorganizations pre-AI was I will
(22:25):
just put more audit rules inplace, which were Boolean.
If this equals this or isgreater than that, then flag it,
or I'm going to put multipleapproval steps in, because I
need more eyes on this, becauseI'm concerned about this
financial process.
With AI now you can actuallydeliver greater efficiency and
an employee experience whilealso driving greater compliance.
(22:48):
Ai is helping us break the bondbetween I want to drive a great
user experience, I trust myemployees to yes, I trust my
employees, but I do want toensure compliance.
I can now do both.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think everyone agrees that AI is going to
change every single role, everysingle process out there.
But how do you see AI, likeJewel, changing the role of
finance teams and travelmanagers in the next few years?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I think Jewel will help ease some of the manual
repetitive tasks that fall underboth finance and travel
managers.
Jewel help ease some of themanual repetitive tasks that
fall under both finance andtravel managers, which I truly
believe will help them focus onmore strategic options.
Imagine if you could ask JewelJewel, I'm considering changing
my expense limit or my dailymeal allowance because of
(23:33):
inflation.
What would be the budgetaryimpact of that?
So instead they would have totry to run reports and try to
calculate what would be theimpact of that, because I'm
seeing the shifting costs and soforth.
Or, juul, I am looking toreplace all short haul flights
in Europe by mandating rail.
(23:54):
What would be the costdifference in that?
And also what would be theimpact in terms of reducing my
carbon footprint?
So imagine those kind of things.
So you have all this richinformation.
Now a travel manager or financemanager can now step back more
strategically and do that.
Hey, how can I help my businesseither be more sustainable, how
(24:15):
can I be more proactive withregard to manage my costs in the
face of changing environmentalconditions and so forth, instead
of stuck in the mundane, manual, paper-intensive processes?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
So one of the issues with AI for a long time now has
been the fact that it's a bit ofa black box.
We're not quite sure howdecisions and recommendations
are made.
So how does SAP concur andensure transparency and
explainability in Joule'sAI-driven recommendations and
actions?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Well, first, SAP's guidance and principles for its
approach to AI are based onUNESCO's recommendation on the
ethics of artificialintelligence.
These principles coverproportionality, safety,
fairness, sustainability,privacy, human oversight,
transparency, responsibility,awareness, etc.
Ensuring that AI solutionsrespect human rights and
(25:06):
contribute to sustainabledevelopment.
In addition, to promote ethicaluse of AI, SAP requires that
all its user interfaces displaya short AI notice when the user
is using an AI feature or theresult has been generated by AI.
So we're informing the user ofwhen AI is being applied or when
results are being delivered byAI, and more complex or
(25:28):
high-risk AI features show amore detailed acknowledgement
Icons or messages also let ourcustomers know when they are
triggering an AI-basedtransaction.
So we're trying to provide fulltransparency to all users of
how AI is being applied, whenit's utilized and when it's
returning information orrecommendations.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think that's really key.
It's the first time I've heardsomeone explain that when AI is
being used, it almost flashes upa warning to say, by the way,
this is now being processed byAI.
Because I think what we'reseeing out there is we're not
quite sure whether AI content,or whether content generally, is
AI generated or not, and if weknow that it's AI generated,
we'll deal with it in adifferent way.
So I think that gives a lot ofcomfort to the end user.
So I'm glad to see that you'redoing that.
(26:09):
Every client tells me that theyare unique and they have
specific business requirements,so can Jool be customized or
extended to meet unique businessneeds?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Well, sap always works with its customer base to
find ways of meeting theirspecific needs.
Sap recently announced whatthey call the SAP Business Data
Cloud, which is a fully managedSaaS solution that unifies and
governs all SAP data and alsowill include third-party data.
Will include third-party dataand in doing so, think of the
(26:38):
Business Data Cloud, as now it'san ability to assimilate all
that rich data that all the SAPapplications are generating,
including concur, expense,concur, travel and including
third-party data.
Then you can harmonize thatdata in a semantic data layer
and then you can apply AI,generative AI and Joule to ask
(27:00):
questions that are now acrossprocesses and across data that
was typically previously siloed.
So in doing so, organizationscan sort of ask their specific
questions that they have bylooking at all their rich data
sources, not just the singledata sources which a given
process or financial applicationis producing.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So, for organizations considering adopting AI-driven
expense management, what advicewould you?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
offer.
Do not attempt to automate yourcurrent manual or
semi-automated expense reportingprocess, and we would recommend
this even pre-AI.
The disservice that we could dofor our customers is automate a
process that may have evolvedover many years for various
reasons.
Instead, define the outcomesthat you want and the insights
(27:47):
that you desire.
So we ask our customers tostart with the outcomes in mind
and share those outcomes thatthey wish to drive and then, in
doing so, then go five years outAre your outcomes the same?
And then, with that five-yearoutlook and then today's outlook
(28:08):
in terms of outcomes, then makethose technology choices,
collaborate with other functionsacross the business to make
sure that you're implementing asolution that not only solves
the problems for today, but intothe future.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So I'm going to get you to look a little further out
.
So maybe in the next five years, what do you see as the future
of AI in business travel andexpense management over that
period?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I think, andrew, it's going to become even more
ubiquitous than it is today.
We've been on a 10-year-plusjourney leveraging machine
learning and AI, now generativeAI, now agentic AI so I think
it's going to be literallyubiquitous across all financial
processes and really continuingto change the shape and how we
(28:52):
consider travel booking expenseclaims, and it's hard to predict
, you know, five years out, letalone one to two years out.
But I think in one to two yearswe could be having a
conversation about no longerabout expense reporting, but
essentially it'll be exceptionreporting, because, with
everything being analyzed inreal time, with real-time
(29:13):
authorization data and so forthpolicies being applied at TAP,
do you need an expense reportanymore?
Why do those transactions?
An expense report is a legacy ofthe old days where you had
paper and you filled out the andI am experienced enough to
remember the days of the formthat you would fill out, staple
(29:36):
the receipts and mail them inyour inter-office mail and
hopefully in a month you wouldget reimbursed.
So, as we think about expensereport today, that's really a
visage of that previous time andwhen I started my career in the
80s.
So maybe we'll be talking aboutexception reporting instead of
expense claim reporting one totwo years, or certainly within
(29:58):
five years.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
So, as a futurist, I must ask given this is the third
iteration of the SAP Concur CFOInsights Report, what emerging
trends or challenges do youanticipate will be the key areas
of focus for finance leaders in2026 and beyond, based on the
trajectory seen in this year'sfindings?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Andrew, I think that the trend with regard to
targeting those manual processesand stamping those manual
processes out withinorganizations will absolutely
continue.
I will continue to see that.
Second, I think that theimportance of data, as it's
already top of everyone's mind,will continue to increase and
(30:38):
then ultimately breaking thosedata silos down so that AI can
be applied across anorganization's business.
Second, I think we'reexperiencing it today.
The geopolitical landscapecontinues to evolve and is
posing risks for businesses, andI think that their investments
they're making from a technologyperspective is to sort of
(30:59):
insulate them from thevolatility that we experience.
And then, third, I think in2026 that we're going to see
more collaboration across theC-suite between the CFO, the
CHRO, the CIO, with financeleaders being in a good place to
lead that cross-functionalcollaboration.
We know that 96% of financeleaders rate themselves
(31:23):
excellent or good at gettingbuy-in from the wider business,
and we believe that that's goingto continue and that's going to
be the superpower that the CFOsbring to the table in 2026.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So, as we close, what are the three most important
pieces of advice you'd offer toCFOs and finance leaders as they
navigate the challenges andopportunities of the coming year
?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Collaboration is key.
By working with otherdepartments, businesses within
your business, you can unlockthe growth opportunities.
Second, continue to embrace AI.
Our report found that 94% offinance leaders say AI has
already helped them improvedecision making.
With 73% it says it'spositively impacted costs and
risk reduction.
And these benefits financeleaders are embracing and I
(32:06):
think there's even more to come.
And then third is not to beafraid to work with your
suppliers, but also to ask theright questions, which you asked
earlier with regard to datasecurity, data privacy, and then
also knowing when that data isbeing used and the results that
you're interpreting is beinggenerated by AI, and I think so.
(32:30):
You shouldn't be afraid of AI,but we should be informed of how
we're using AI every day in ourongoing business so we can
still make the right decisionsfor our organizations.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
So I think, chris, you've whet everyone's appetite.
How can we find out more aboutyou?
Access the report and the newAI dual offerings?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
So I'd suggest you head to the SAP Concur website
to download the CFO Insightsreport and then also visit our
blog, where we announced recentdual updates for everyone to see
.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I'll put all those links in the show notes.
A fascinating discussion, Chris.
Thanks again for your time andI'll see you on stage in Europe,
in London at Fusion Exchange.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Looking forward to it .
Andrew, take care, we'll seeyou.
See you in June.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Thank you for listening to Digitally Curious,
brought to you by SAP Concur.
You can find all of ourprevious shows and order
Andrew's book Digitally Curiousat digitallycuriousai.
Find out more about Andrew andhow he helps corporates become
more digitally curious withkeynote speeches and C-suite
(33:34):
workshops at digitallycuriousai.
Until next time, we invite youto stay digitally curious.
Welcome to Digitally Curious, brought to you by SAP
Concur.
Your host is world-renownedfuturist and author of Digitally
Curious, Andrew Grill.
Every episode is filled withactionable advice about
technology that will helpenhance you and your business.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Today on the show, we have a returning guest, chris
Janoo, senior Vice President andHead of Product Marketing at
SAP Concur.
Chris was on the show lastseason when we looked at
insights from their 2024 CFOInsights Report Repositioning
for Growth.
He's back again to look atinsights from their 2025 report
titled Action for Growth.
We'll also hear about newagentic AI capabilities from the
(00:42):
platform.
Welcome again, chris.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Thank you, andrew, great to see you and speak to
you again.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So since our last conversation, you've taken on
the role of SPP, of productmarketing, at SAP Concur.
Tell us what you're doing inthis new role.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
In my new role, andrew, I'm even more focused on
growth than I was in myprevious role, and by growth I
mean looking at what we call thefive Ps, but it's really four
out of the five Ps positioning,placement, packaging and pricing
and so my team is bringing anoutside-in view of the
marketplace to enable ourproduct engineering team to
develop the products thatdeliver the outcomes our
customers seek.
You know so.
Product engineering owns thefifth P and then last in this
(01:21):
new role, and it fits right intothe conversation we're going to
have about our 2025 CFOinsights.
I'm spending a lot more timewith the SAP Concur CFO
specifically around growthinitiatives.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So how does the shift in report title from
repositioning for growth toaction for growth reflect the
evolution of CFO strategies andmindset over the last year,
moving from repositioning toactively leading the charge for
further expansion?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You know, andrew and I in the 2025, one of the big
numbers that surveyed.
The big number that stood outto me was 81% of CFOs see
themselves as the primarydrivers of business growth,
which is one of the manyhighlights, and there's a
growing sentiment, particularlyamong SVPs and other leaders,
that this responsibility shouldbe shared.
And so this is where it'ssomewhat of a paradox CFOs see
(02:10):
themselves as the primary driver, but the rest of the C-suite
because we expanded the researchwhich we'll talk about in a
moment sees that as more of acollaborative effort and not
just solely the purview offinance, and that it requires
more coordination acrossmarketing, product HR, it, which
(02:31):
is exactly where I'm findingmyself alongside with the CFO
and so that, when you layer ontop, you know AI.
The digital transformationbeing driven by AI creates an
enormous opportunity fororganizations to really optimize
their business, grow theirbusiness, while also controlling
(02:51):
their costs.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So you mentioned this 2025 survey.
You expanded its scope, so,rather than just HR leaders, you
looked at 350 CFOs, also 115 HRand 150 IT leaders, compared to
just 300 finance leaders lastyear.
So how did incorporating theseadditional viewpoints enrich the
findings and provide that moreholistic understanding of the
business landscape for CFOs?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
We decided to expand the personas to include HR and
IT leaders this year to have abetter understanding of the
pressures concerns and whatsuccess looks like in these key
business functions and what wastheir working relationship with
the finance function of thepressures concerns and what
success looks like in these keybusiness functions and what was
their working relationship withthe finance function Selfishly,
this was also trying tounderstand how the C-suite buys
technology and so we were doingit in part to better understand
(03:36):
how we message and position, butit proved very valuable to
ultimately to all sources oforganization and how we go,
build products and services, andalso it's helping us drive our
technology investments and,ultimately, in how we serve our
customers.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You mentioned some of the findings already, but maybe
you could look at some of yourown key highlights from the
report and did anythingchallenge or surprise you from
the findings compared to lastyear?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
The good news is this is our third report, so now we
have three years to look backand now we have infused the
point of view of IT and HRleaders.
But a few things stand out thisyear versus last year, from a
CFO's perspective, 37% of CFOscited geopolitical tensions as
their top external challenge.
This year that's up from 11%last year.
(04:22):
And, just for context, thisreport was done prior to January
of this year and so we allunderstand what's happened since
January of this year.
Certainly in the US that'shaving an impact.
So even before January, 37% ofCFOs were citing geopolitical
(04:43):
tensions as their top externalchallenge, up from 11%.
Second, we saw a% of CFOs wereciting geopolitical tensions as
their top external challenge, upfrom 11%.
Second, we saw a decrease inCFOs being worried about
worsening economic conditions astheir top challenge, declining
from 55% to 41%.
And that's also whichpre-January 20th, you might say
oh okay, that seemed robusteconomy and so forth.
(05:04):
Of course, that's up for debatenow and then the last shift we
saw that which was significantis in 2023, going back to 23
versus 24, only 1% of CFOslisted manual processes as a top
challenge.
In 2025, we're seeing 38% arestated that treating manual
(05:25):
processes and remedying thosemanual processes is now a top
challenge.
So a significant, significantincrease.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So the report highlights that finance leaders
are now spearheading expansionefforts after repositioning for
growth.
So how has the role of the CFOevolved over the last few years,
particularly in transformingfrom managing downturns to
driving growth, and how does theimpact of generative AI help
them in their role?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I think there's a few points to that.
I think, tying back first tothe 1% to the 38% in terms of
focus on those manual processes,I think that CFOs' experience
with AI technology and wherethey've infused it within the
organization with the support ofIT, they're seeing the real
benefits and now they're lookingfor other problems to go solve,
(06:11):
particularly those manualprocesses.
Second, the CFOs are overloadedwith data.
All the applications that theyuse generate vast amounts of
information and data and theCFOs rely on data to make quick,
informed business decisions inan ever-changing environment.
But with more and more data tointerpret, the application of
(06:32):
generative AI now becomesmission critical in helping CFOs
make those decisions.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So I believe there's a huge opportunity to build
influence through collaborationwithin the C-suite, and you've
alluded to that.
So where do you see the mostsignificant untapped potential
for collaboration betweenfinance, it, hr across an?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
organization.
Finance leaders had theopportunity, through shared
ownership of growth initiatives,to get buy-in from their peers
in the C-suite.
And the shared ownership modeldoesn't diminish a CFO's
influence anyway.
Instead, I believe, as Ibelieve you do, it enhances the
CFO's influence anyway.
Instead, I believe, as Ibelieve you do, it enhances the
CFO's influence by makingfinance a unifying force within
the organization.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
So when we look at how AI can help every department
, you say in the report thatinternally, manual processes
have become enemy number one,spiking from 1% to 38% of CFOs
cited them as a top challenge injust two years.
So why has this become such apressing issue and what does
this shift indicate aboutfinance priorities?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Andrew, I think the growing adoption of AI is
driving this shift.
A few years ago, generative AIsome would say was a parlor
trick.
In terms of Gartner's hypecycle it was on the upswing.
But each year, as CFOs andtheir organizations and their
competitors have adopted AI,they're seeing the benefits now
(07:51):
from those investments.
And this year's top goal forfueling expansion comes first by
optimizing cost drivingefficiency, and finance leaders
are turning to automation and AIto drive the performance, with
a focus on, as I said that,going from 1% to the 38% in
terms of automating those manualprocesses, so the net-net.
They're seeing the benefits oftheir initial AI investments
(08:13):
bearing fruit and now they'relooking for other opportunities
to drive those greaterefficiencies, ultimately to fuel
their growth.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So one thing that jumped out for me in the 2025
report was this dramaticincrease in AI automation for
general tasks.
Perhaps you could share some ofthe most impactful AI use cases
you're seeing in financedepartments today.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Certainly, finance departments we know are
typically not growing in mostorganizations and especially
even companies I've spoken withthat are going through mergers
and acquisitions.
Those groups typically aren'tgrowing.
So AI has the opportunity toautomate those mundane financial
tasks and so we're seeing AIteams use it for forecasting,
using for closing the quarterand so forth, and our report
(08:57):
significantly at AI automationis creating new pricing models,
which jumped from 5% to 22%.
New pricing models which jumpedfrom 5% to 22%.
Ai is being used for fraudmonitoring, which rose from 28%
to 45%.
In addition, sap Concur we evenintroduced Verify Concur Verify
a few years ago, which is sortof a self-serve audit solution
(09:17):
for expense reporting and itautomatically checks 100% of
expense reports to identifypotential compliance issues and
then has then the company'sauditors then go focus on those
specific reports.
It uses AI and machine learningthat we've developed over the
past decade.
So imagine finance organizationshave to make a choice Do I
(09:41):
manually audit 100% of myexpense claims?
Do I do a random sample oftypically 18% to 20%?
No, I don't have to make thosechoices.
I can evaluate 100% of expenseclaims with Verify and then have
my auditors look at thosequote-unquote reports that were
flagged as an example fromJanuary 2022 to June 2023, we
(10:06):
interrogated almost 3 millionexpense reports pass through
Verify.
63.7 million audit checks wereconducted automatically without
human intervention.
And then 97% of those auditchecks failed didn't require a
human.
Only 3% of the expense reportsliterally required a human
auditor.
(10:27):
So imagine the scale if you'rea CFO sitting there saying, okay
, I've automated 100, I canverify or validate 100% of my
expense claims.
97% were done without humanintervention.
So that's one example.
So if you're a CFO, you say,okay, where can I apply this to
my other financial processes?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
What I say to all my clients is that AI is really
great at things that need speedand scale, and this is one great
example of that having allthose things run by Verify.
So you alluded to the Gartnerhype cycle and GenDriv AI last
year was certainly high on that.
I don't know about you, but myLinkedIn feed today is just full
(11:08):
of people talking about agenticAI or AI agents.
So if 2024 was all aboutgenerative AI, 2025 is all about
agentic AI, and you recentlyannounced some new agentic AI
capabilities called AIJewel.
Can you tell us?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
more about these.
Jewel is SAP's generative AIco-pilot.
These Joule is SAP's generativeAI co-pilot and we've now
integrated Joule into SAP ConcurSolutions.
And Joule is being integratedacross all the SAP applications
and we're excited about thisintegration because it'll
automate some of thehistorically mundane tasks for
employees, specifically withinexpense management, and Concur
(11:42):
Expense is an example.
Joule helps to ensure expensereports are ready for submission
, so Jul will look over and say,hey, you might want to check
this and that's a capabilitythat's coming before you submit,
literally sort of pre-auditing,and it does two things First,
hey, did you mistype something?
So, second, likelihood of thatexpense claim being returned for
(12:03):
correction.
And then, third, it also putsthe employee on notice that hey,
there's technology that'swatching what I'm doing, so it
can benefit the employee forless returned expense claims, so
faster reimbursement.
But it also serves as areminder to employees that hey,
even before I'm submitting, whatI'm potentially claiming on my
(12:26):
expense claim is being reviewed.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Maybe you could give us in a nutshell what is Agentic
AI and how does Joule performthat role as an agentic or an AI
agent?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Joule is the co-pilot , so Joule sits on top of our
application.
You could be in SuccessFactors,the HR system, as a manager and
Joule could say, hey, you nowhave an expense report to
approve and, without getting outof that SuccessFactors
application, you immediately,within Joule, say is there any
(13:00):
exceptions to this expensereport?
No, therefore I approve.
And so that's one example ofJuul.
Specifically with regard toagentic AI, it's about creating
these autonomous decision-makingagents that can work across
processes, and then Juul will bepart of that orchestration
across the processes.
(13:20):
That's the thing.
So when we think of AI ingenerative AI, it's looking at
sets of data with regard to thespecific application, we have
many use cases I'm sure I'llhighlight in a moment.
But then the agentic AI how canI go across processes to make
decisions on my behalf and do itin an automated fashion?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
What I tell all my clients is whatever tool they're
using, they need to really asktheir vendors are they actually
AI enabling the tools?
And clearly you are.
So what inspired SAP Concur todevelop Joule, and how does it
fit into the broader SAP AIstrategy?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Well, sap has a wealth of applications which,
generating tremendous amounts ofdata and so forth, and having
Joule, this AI co-pilotassistant, which can now
traverse all the applicationsand it's always on, so,
regardless of where you'reworking, it can help you work
more efficiently.
With the example that I citedearlier, with approving a simple
(14:21):
expense claim while even thoughyou're in another SAP
application, and then byembedding Juul into Concur
Expense and Concur Travel, webrought our portfolio one step
closer to another step inautomating travel and expense
process.
That's seamless across ourcustomers, and so it's going to
result, we believe, in betterdecision making, but also better
(14:43):
experience for managers andalso the end users as they
perform their task, as theyeither book their travel or
complete their expense claimpost-travel.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So maybe you could walk us through what the most
common pain points are inexpense management that Juul
aims to solve.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
One of the things that we're looking for Juul to
help solve is answer thoseemployees' questions before they
travel.
I can talk to many of ourcustomers and their employees
who reads their travel policyprior to traveling.
I would ensure that's a prettydry document and one that's not
reviewed too often.
So before booking travel, Jewel, am I allowed to take business
(15:22):
class, since my travel is overeight hours from Phoenix,
Arizona to the UK?
So being able to interrogateloading up your travel policy,
your entire T&E policy, is onegreat example before even
booking the trip.
Another is travel requests,very common in Europe and also
in Asia Pacific.
(15:42):
Pre-travel authorization is nowtoday.
Traditionally, users would gousing Concur Travel.
Let me see what my trip's goingto cost.
You know, Chris, come fromPhoenix to the UK.
Okay, my air is going to looklike this.
I think if I rent a car, it'sgoing to look like this.
My hotel rates are going tolook like this.
Now, with Juul, Juul create atravel request for me.
(16:08):
I am traveling to London toconcur Fusion in London, to meet
Andrew and the rest of ourcustomers and partners.
How much is it going to cost?
And Joule will say you'retaking air ride, share hotel and
immediately give me that, Isubmit it for my boss to approve
and ultimately that beginscreating my expense report.
It just saves tremendous amountof time and gives me a more
accurate estimate of my travelcosts.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Now, one thing that's really important for both
employees and managers iscompliance with policy.
So how does Juul ensureaccuracy and compliance when
automating expensecategorization and policy checks
?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Before even submission you know submission
of the expense claim just asyour EA was doing previously.
It's looking like, hey, youknow, you're missing a taxi here
, how did you go from there tothere?
So it's smart enough to look atthat expense claim, that
timeline, to say, hey, theseexpenses align.
So in doing so, you're drivinggreater compliance, but you're
(17:04):
also helping the employee bemore efficient, which is
extremely important for thefrequent travelers such as
myself and yourself.
And as part of thatsimplification, it also means
fewer support cases, betteremployee experience, greater
efficiency, higher reimbursementtimes and ultimately, everyone
(17:25):
benefits the employee, thefinance administrators who are
managing the travel and expenseprocess, and then the managers
of those employees.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
SAP Concur is not the only piece in the travel
solution, so how does Juulintegrate with existing payment
providers like American Expressand MasterCard to deliver
real-time insights?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
We've integrated what we call RTA data real-time
authorization with MasterCardand now with American Express.
And what real-timeauthorization data?
And you've likely experiencedit, and all of us listening to
this podcast experience this intheir personal life You're
tapping your personal card,whether you be at a prep manager
(18:04):
or somewhere else you know,buying quick lunch or coffee,
and you immediately get a textnotification.
You know, x transaction on thisdate.
That's a real-timeauthorization notice.
We're now able to capture thatreal-time authorization
information as another digitaldata point, which now with AI,
(18:26):
then says oh, andrew was at prepmanager, tapped it, it was, you
know, 10 pounds and so forth.
Ah, it's likely lunch and itwas on this date.
So let me start creating theexpense claim even before that
credit card transaction arrives,maybe in 24 to 48 hours later,
within concur expense and so.
So it's another piece of richinformation.
(18:48):
And if it's a big amount, joulewould then say hey, andrew, it
was maybe 50 pounds at prepmanager.
Did you have others with you?
Should this be calledentertainment expense or a lunch
expense?
Who are those other attendees?
So those are the examples that,using another rich source of
information, create that expenseclaim.
(19:08):
Begin now applying policy.
As soon as you tap helpingsaying was this just an
individual meal expense or basedon the value?
Maybe it was an entertainmentexpense and therefore I need
more information.
So at the moment of tap, andrewcan then say you're right,
(19:28):
absolutely.
I took Chris Juno out.
I took Alistair Kent out whojoined me.
Great, I don't have to thinkwhen I'm back in the office, in
my home office in three weeksokay, 50 pounds at PretManager.
I knew I was out.
Who was I with?
Do I go to my calendar andfigure it out?
No, you'd already captured theinformation at that point.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
So everyone's worried about data privacy and security
.
So what measures are in placeto protect sensitive financial
and personal data when usingJuul?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Data privacy and security is top of mind for
everyone when it comes to, firstoff, protecting their rich
financial data and, second,protecting it from being
vacuumed up into these largelanguage models that can contain
sensitive information.
(20:17):
So all the information that iscollected and stored within Juul
is completely contained.
None of this financialinformation that Juul is
interrogating is ever exposedexternally to any other AI
sources.
It's all contained within ourcustomer's, our customer's
(20:38):
environment.
So none of that information isever exposed outside.
Quote, unquote, the four wallsof this, of the expense
management process, and thenalso, as we're analyzing that
data collectively across ourcustomers, we're anonymizing
that data as part of the overallprocess.
So there's no PIA informationthat's being scrutinized, that's
(21:00):
being retained, and then allthe information that we are
using is being anonymized as webuild our models.
But all our models isabsolutely being contained
within Concur Expense and notbeing exposed externally.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
So we talked about how Joule can help with policy
compliance.
In what ways can Joule helpbusinesses identify cost-saving
opportunities?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
First it begins, as I said, the 1% to 38% is
automating, and throughautomation you have that rich
information.
And so, with this automation,faster processing of expense
claims, tracking its policy andapprovals, and so you're
bringing wealth of information,cost efficiency, smarter, more
accurate expense categorizationand, ultimately, reconciliation.
(21:44):
Better views, richer insightsin terms of how you're doing
against budget.
And then identifying and wehave many use cases of where
we're employing AI.
We were talking about Verifyearlier is reducing risk
management and potential fraudis this overall process.
(22:04):
So there's cost savings andcompliance.
What I like to say and I mayhave said it when we previously
spoke AI traditionallyorganizations have had to make a
tradeoff between efficiency,the human experience and,
ultimately, compliance.
Driving compliance in manyorganizations pre-AI was I will
(22:25):
just put more audit rules inplace, which were Boolean.
If this equals this or isgreater than that, then flag it,
or I'm going to put multipleapproval steps in, because I
need more eyes on this, becauseI'm concerned about this
financial process.
With AI now you can actuallydeliver greater efficiency and
an employee experience whilealso driving greater compliance.
(22:48):
Ai is helping us break the bondbetween I want to drive a great
user experience, I trust myemployees to yes, I trust my
employees, but I do want toensure compliance.
I can now do both.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think everyone agrees that AI is going to
change every single role, everysingle process out there.
But how do you see AI, likeJewel, changing the role of
finance teams and travelmanagers in the next few years?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I think Jewel will help ease some of the manual
repetitive tasks that fall underboth finance and travel
managers.
Jewel help ease some of themanual repetitive tasks that
fall under both finance andtravel managers, which I truly
believe will help them focus onmore strategic options.
Imagine if you could ask JewelJewel, I'm considering changing
my expense limit or my dailymeal allowance because of
(23:33):
inflation.
What would be the budgetaryimpact of that?
So instead they would have totry to run reports and try to
calculate what would be theimpact of that, because I'm
seeing the shifting costs and soforth.
Or, juul, I am looking toreplace all short haul flights
in Europe by mandating rail.
(23:54):
What would be the costdifference in that?
And also what would be theimpact in terms of reducing my
carbon footprint?
So imagine those kind of things.
So you have all this richinformation.
Now a travel manager or financemanager can now step back more
strategically and do that.
Hey, how can I help my businesseither be more sustainable, how
(24:15):
can I be more proactive withregard to manage my costs in the
face of changing environmentalconditions and so forth, instead
of stuck in the mundane, manual, paper-intensive processes?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
So one of the issues with AI for a long time now has
been the fact that it's a bit ofa black box.
We're not quite sure howdecisions and recommendations
are made.
So how does SAP concur andensure transparency and
explainability in Joule'sAI-driven recommendations and
actions?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Well, first, SAP's guidance and principles for its
approach to AI are based onUNESCO's recommendation on the
ethics of artificialintelligence.
These principles coverproportionality, safety,
fairness, sustainability,privacy, human oversight,
transparency, responsibility,awareness, etc.
Ensuring that AI solutionsrespect human rights and
(25:06):
contribute to sustainabledevelopment.
In addition, to promote ethicaluse of AI, SAP requires that
all its user interfaces displaya short AI notice when the user
is using an AI feature or theresult has been generated by AI.
So we're informing the user ofwhen AI is being applied or when
results are being delivered byAI, and more complex or
(25:28):
high-risk AI features show amore detailed acknowledgement
Icons or messages also let ourcustomers know when they are
triggering an AI-basedtransaction.
So we're trying to provide fulltransparency to all users of
how AI is being applied, whenit's utilized and when it's
returning information orrecommendations.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think that's really key.
It's the first time I've heardsomeone explain that when AI is
being used, it almost flashes upa warning to say, by the way,
this is now being processed byAI.
Because I think what we'reseeing out there is we're not
quite sure whether AI content,or whether content generally, is
AI generated or not, and if weknow that it's AI generated,
we'll deal with it in adifferent way.
So I think that gives a lot ofcomfort to the end user.
So I'm glad to see that you'redoing that.
(26:09):
Every client tells me that theyare unique and they have
specific business requirements,so can Jool be customized or
extended to meet unique businessneeds?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Well, sap always works with its customer base to
find ways of meeting theirspecific needs.
Sap recently announced whatthey call the SAP Business Data
Cloud, which is a fully managedSaaS solution that unifies and
governs all SAP data and alsowill include third-party data.
Will include third-party dataand in doing so, think of the
(26:38):
Business Data Cloud, as now it'san ability to assimilate all
that rich data that all the SAPapplications are generating,
including concur, expense,concur, travel and including
third-party data.
Then you can harmonize thatdata in a semantic data layer
and then you can apply AI,generative AI and Joule to ask
(27:00):
questions that are now acrossprocesses and across data that
was typically previously siloed.
So in doing so, organizationscan sort of ask their specific
questions that they have bylooking at all their rich data
sources, not just the singledata sources which a given
process or financial applicationis producing.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So, for organizations considering adopting AI-driven
expense management, what advicewould you?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
offer.
Do not attempt to automate yourcurrent manual or
semi-automated expense reportingprocess, and we would recommend
this even pre-AI.
The disservice that we could dofor our customers is automate a
process that may have evolvedover many years for various
reasons.
Instead, define the outcomesthat you want and the insights
(27:47):
that you desire.
So we ask our customers tostart with the outcomes in mind
and share those outcomes thatthey wish to drive and then, in
doing so, then go five years outAre your outcomes the same?
And then, with that five-yearoutlook and then today's outlook
(28:08):
in terms of outcomes, then makethose technology choices,
collaborate with other functionsacross the business to make
sure that you're implementing asolution that not only solves
the problems for today, but intothe future.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So I'm going to get you to look a little further out
.
So maybe in the next five years, what do you see as the future
of AI in business travel andexpense management over that
period?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I think, andrew, it's going to become even more
ubiquitous than it is today.
We've been on a 10-year-plusjourney leveraging machine
learning and AI, now generativeAI, now agentic AI so I think
it's going to be literallyubiquitous across all financial
processes and really continuingto change the shape and how we
(28:52):
consider travel booking expenseclaims, and it's hard to predict
, you know, five years out, letalone one to two years out.
But I think in one to two yearswe could be having a
conversation about no longerabout expense reporting, but
essentially it'll be exceptionreporting, because, with
everything being analyzed inreal time, with real-time
(29:13):
authorization data and so forthpolicies being applied at TAP,
do you need an expense reportanymore?
Why do those transactions?
An expense report is a legacy ofthe old days where you had
paper and you filled out the andI am experienced enough to
remember the days of the formthat you would fill out, staple
(29:36):
the receipts and mail them inyour inter-office mail and
hopefully in a month you wouldget reimbursed.
So, as we think about expensereport today, that's really a
visage of that previous time andwhen I started my career in the
80s.
So maybe we'll be talking aboutexception reporting instead of
expense claim reporting one totwo years, or certainly within
(29:58):
five years.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
So, as a futurist, I must ask given this is the third
iteration of the SAP Concur CFOInsights Report, what emerging
trends or challenges do youanticipate will be the key areas
of focus for finance leaders in2026 and beyond, based on the
trajectory seen in this year'sfindings?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Andrew, I think that the trend with regard to
targeting those manual processesand stamping those manual
processes out withinorganizations will absolutely
continue.
I will continue to see that.
Second, I think that theimportance of data, as it's
already top of everyone's mind,will continue to increase and
(30:38):
then ultimately breaking thosedata silos down so that AI can
be applied across anorganization's business.
Second, I think we'reexperiencing it today.
The geopolitical landscapecontinues to evolve and is
posing risks for businesses, andI think that their investments
they're making from a technologyperspective is to sort of
(30:59):
insulate them from thevolatility that we experience.
And then, third, I think in2026 that we're going to see
more collaboration across theC-suite between the CFO, the
CHRO, the CIO, with financeleaders being in a good place to
lead that cross-functionalcollaboration.
We know that 96% of financeleaders rate themselves
(31:23):
excellent or good at gettingbuy-in from the wider business,
and we believe that that's goingto continue and that's going to
be the superpower that the CFOsbring to the table in 2026.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So, as we close, what are the three most important
pieces of advice you'd offer toCFOs and finance leaders as they
navigate the challenges andopportunities of the coming year
?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Collaboration is key.
By working with otherdepartments, businesses within
your business, you can unlockthe growth opportunities.
Second, continue to embrace AI.
Our report found that 94% offinance leaders say AI has
already helped them improvedecision making.
With 73% it says it'spositively impacted costs and
risk reduction.
And these benefits financeleaders are embracing and I
(32:06):
think there's even more to come.
And then third is not to beafraid to work with your
suppliers, but also to ask theright questions, which you asked
earlier with regard to datasecurity, data privacy, and then
also knowing when that data isbeing used and the results that
you're interpreting is beinggenerated by AI, and I think so.
(32:30):
You shouldn't be afraid of AI,but we should be informed of how
we're using AI every day in ourongoing business so we can
still make the right decisionsfor our organizations.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
So I think, chris, you've whet everyone's appetite.
How can we find out more aboutyou?
Access the report and the newAI dual offerings?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
So I'd suggest you head to the SAP Concur website
to download the CFO Insightsreport and then also visit our
blog, where we announced recentdual updates for everyone to see
.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I'll put all those links in the show notes.
A fascinating discussion, Chris.
Thanks again for your time andI'll see you on stage in Europe,
in London at Fusion Exchange.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Looking forward to it .
Andrew, take care, we'll seeyou.
See you in June.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Thank you for listening to Digitally Curious,
brought to you by SAP Concur.
You can find all of ourprevious shows and order
Andrew's book Digitally Curiousat digitallycuriousai.
Find out more about Andrew andhow he helps corporates become
more digitally curious withkeynote speeches and C-suite
(33:34):
workshops at digitallycuriousai.
Until next time, we invite youto stay digitally curious.
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