Liam Finn - Into The Hyperverse - Direct Edition

Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
Welcome back to direct edition of podcast about Nothing and
Everything. I'm your host Dave.
Today's episode features a chat with musician,
singer-songwriter, multi instrumentalist Liam Finn.
I've known Liam for I want to say about 10-15 years now.
I first saw him opening up for Eddie Vedder on his first solo

(00:35):
tour for the Into the Wild soundtrack and Liam was
promoting his first solo album I'll Be Lightning.
Liam's musical history goes way back.
It's in his blood, literally. The son of Neil Finn and the
nephew of Tim Finn, the legendary musicians from New

(00:55):
Zealand. Split ends Crowded House.
It is a family affair, but Liam broke out on his own.
And you're going to hear a lot of different fun stories and
just all these interesting things that I love talking about
musicians with. But somebody I am very familiar
with, like Liam, he has a new album coming out right after you
hear this called Hyperverse. And it started as a COVID

(01:19):
recording project where he was basically doing everything live
on stream, putting together songs and writing them in real
time. Liam's live shows are beyond,
beyond energetic. So if you do get to check them
out at any point soon, please do.
And the the last Crowded House album that came out last year

(01:40):
called Gravity Stairs. Liam is part of the band now
with his brother and obviously his dad.
It, it's, it's exciting to talk to somebody who's been around
music for so long and is still just kind of like, you know, his
career is just in its prime. So we talk about a variety of

(02:00):
things. So thank you for joining this
and checking it out. If you like what you hear,
please hit subscribe. This is a huge passion for me as
well as an output of what I do for a living.
If you like comics, check out mycomic book channel, West Coast
Avengers. But I like to bring interviews
in here with musicians and illustrators of all types and
artists, actors, directors, et cetera.

(02:21):
So hit the subscribe button, sitback and relax.
And check out my chat with Liam Finn.
Good morning, good evening, goodafternoon, everybody.
Today's guest is somebody that I've been listening to musically
for over a decade, somebody who has been playing music since he

(02:42):
was a young, young child with the family band.
You might know them, they're called Crowded House.
But we're not here to talk aboutjust the family band.
We're here to talk about the man.
Liam Finn. How are you today, William?
I'm. I'm doing very good.
I've just gotten home from a home in LA from a brief trip
back to New Zealand to start writing a new Crowded House

(03:05):
album. So just re acclimating at the
moment and getting back into my studio and preparing for the
imminent release of Hyperverse. I saw the record that's coming
out in a month. So so that comes out in a month,
but you just released the How, which is another album.

(03:26):
I want to get into that. It's pretty confusing.
This whole process has been a big experiment in self releasing
and independence. I've always been an independent
artist, but I've licensed records to record companies and
worked with and alongside lots of different people.
And this time from the inceptionof how I was made this record, I

(03:47):
wanted to just do it completely outside of the industry.
So I recorded the records while I wrote, wrote the record with
people viewing me on Twitch, streamed the entire thing from
the moment of like just jamming,making sounds to having Eureka
moments to trying to write melodies on stream.
It was, it was a real weird, weird, but excellent experience.

(04:10):
Sure. But that's kind of passed on
through through the mixing stuffto now self releasing.
I've kind of kept out of the mainstream or the traditional
industry. So that's why I've, I've found a
way I'm trying to, I'm also trying to manipulate the
industry, you know, the algorithm basically because
we're all, as everybody kind of knows now we're all kind of

(04:32):
under the thumb of this really mysterious algorithm thing
that's constantly changing. It's completely impossible to
clock it. So you have to try and keep up
with it. And one thing that me and my, my
manager Dave, his name Dave is agreat name is this idea of
waterfalling. It's called.
And so when you upload a new song, you put the, you make it

(04:57):
an EP or an album and the previous song that you released.
And it would, I'm up to song 8 now.
So it looks like an album. So Spotify sees it as an album,
but you put the put it, it's like this is its own release.
And it means that when someone listens to your new song, it
just immediately goes on to the next song and tries to help you
build that kind of connection inin your streaming.

(05:17):
So, so far on this on this one album, I've managed to release 3
singles, 4 EPS and one album before I've even dropped the
album. So it's just confusing.
Yeah, it's confusing and stuff, but nobody really cares.
Well, and the The thing is, is like you also still believe in
the power of a physical release.You know, you self released 500

(05:40):
copies of the hyperverse and then the record store day
release just got was that like 3weeks ago.
So, you know, I know you're, you're manipulating the
algorithm, but at the same time you're still releasing things
that we can hold, touch, feel and listen to, which is, you
know, you know me, I love vinyl,as you can see from behind me.

(06:01):
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I, I guess I sort of see
it as two different, I don't want to call it, call them
plights. 2 two different missions that I'm on at the
moment and 1 is that I, I as youand me, believe in the power of
music and the power of being a fan of music and the things we
get out of it. The most focus I wanted to give

(06:25):
on this record was servicing my fellow music lovers and the
people that are already really engaged in what I do.
And so the, the highest importance I put into the music
itself, the artwork, the, and I've made a music video for
every song I've put out because I love doing that, you know, and
I, and I enjoy that process as acreative tool.

(06:47):
So I, rather than pushing myselfout there on social media and
trying to make content and following trends, I just thought
I'm going to focus on all the things that I really enjoy
doing. And then I'm going to the
separate mission. Is this trying to, you know,
learn how it's all working in this modern day?
Because it's changed so much since me releasing The Nihilist.

(07:10):
Even even the last two solo records I released were in a
real era of flux. And Spotify wasn't even as big a
deal as it is now. It was more about it was kind of
YouTube and it was kind, I don'tknow, it was kind of a little
bit of everything and a little abig bit of nothing.
So I never really sort of got myfoot in the door and all these
modern things. So I have spent the last year or

(07:32):
so and it's part of why I decided to reach release each
song 1 by 1 is because I knew I'd learned a bit as I went.
So by the time the album drops, I'll be like, all right, this is
what I've learned. I can give one last big push to
a record, which in my experiencein the past, you you record
label releases your album and ifit doesn't really stick within

(07:53):
the first 3 or 4 weeks, they've moved on and you're like, but
it's a new record. And so I'm sort of just, yeah,
from all that experience. I'm just trying to create my new
reality and that reality is is is my hyper verse.
And, and you took advantage of, you know, like, like many
people, you pivoted brilliantly during COVID and started doing

(08:15):
the Twitch stuff and even put some of that stuff on YouTube.
And you were live on Instagram every once in a while and you
were staying engaged. And that's honestly like, as
much as we tire of just talking about, you have to engage with
your audience kind of all the time now.
Yeah, well, I love, I love that the authenticity that you get

(08:35):
from social media. I don't love the doom scrolling
and the you know, like I've managed to remove it all off my
phone, so it's not something I interact with, but I still
upload to it and I still like Instagram Live because I don't
like recording videos and then uploading because you always I
don't know if you find this, if it's not live, I'll stop and

(08:58):
start 1000 times because I'll make a mistake.
But if I know it's live, it's just it's for one, it's done so
you move on, but also you you, it's just so much more
authentic, obviously and like you, you have to act like
yourself and if you make a mistake, it's kind of human and
maybe has a bit more of an endearing quality anyway.
So I think I really I like utilizing these things as tools

(09:20):
and it's the same with reframingthe streamers as well.
Like Spotify. It's like it's, there's no doubt
in my mind that it's kind of evil and it's destroyed a lot of
what I love about music. But I have also discovered a few
things through Spotify that I love now.
And I I also see it as a tool. It's just a shame that we're
giving all of this hard work forfree to all these billionaires.

(09:45):
And that's what I'm trying to kind of dismantle a bit and go,
all right, I'm going to use these things as a tool, but the
the real heart and soul of what I'm doing, I'm going to give to
the people you know, And I know that the fans are actually
genuinely want to find ways to support the artists they love as
well. So I do think that we're on a
little bit of a cusp of a someone, actually someone had

(10:07):
framed it to me as the the plight of a middle class
musician, just like the top echelon are very well served.
And I don't know what a lower class musician is, but, but I
said there's a lot. There's a huge Gray area for
people like myself who have a small but really dedicated
audience, and it's just finding a way to make that actually a

(10:28):
salvageable career. Yeah, I mean, grabbing an
audience in any way, shape or form, and you know, you've done
it over just. I mean, your live performances
are the stuff of legend. Even though you're still doing
it, the legend still precedes you.
And that's just one way to grab people and be like, yeah, here's
the music I record, but come andsee me live and then you'll

(10:51):
really be hooked. Because I, I can speak for many
people, friends of mine, relatives, fellow, you know,
Pearl Jam fans that know that are like, yeah, go see Liam
live. Because you'll never, not you'll
never stop wanting to see him live 0.
That that's that's lovely to hear.
I mean, and I wish I could do itmore.

(11:11):
I mean, that's another sad thingthat about artists at my level
is that it has become continuously harder and harder
and harder to do those kind of tours.
And it probably doesn't help that I'm getting older and have
a family now as well. But, you know, just getting out
on the road and doing the hard slog like we used to this.
It's become between like, you know, Brexit in the UK,

(11:34):
separating things to Europe's made going between those
countries a lot harder. Current administration here is
not making it easier for people,you know, whatever it's, you
could, you could talk about thatstuff for hours.
And I and I, and I kind of love doing that as well.
But it also inspires me just to find it.
It, it feels the punk spirit in me to, to want to, you know, to

(11:58):
push up against it, you know? And that lives through me.
I mean, I, I fund this podcast with my other job, which is
selling comics on YouTube in a live format.
And like, and that's the thing, like when you read, I'm selling
them like literally this wall. I mean, I do read tons of
comics, but yeah, that's my business.
But in a live setting where I have a community of people

(12:20):
buying this stuff and I'm like, yeah, I just want to do that so
that I can interview everybody across all the mediums that I
like. And, you know, you got to find
the thing that you're good at. But like you said, like the live
format, it's more genuine. Anything could happen and
anything should happen. So, so I, I really do, you know,

(12:41):
I find a kinship with my friendswho are musicians and do stuff
performing wise because literally I'm doing it for five
hours in one night and I start, you know, sometimes I start
singing and people don't leave. I mean, so is it, are you doing
that like a live stream thing? Oh, cool.
I mean, there is a buzz that that you get from it and it's

(13:01):
like, I always loved the romantic aspect of radio.
When I was a kid, I would listento the student radio station in
New Zealand, BFM, which I still listen to now when I'm back.
And it's like it just imagining especially something about
nighttime radio or something used to imagining someone in a
dark room like getting lost and tunes and you don't.

(13:23):
I loved that there was a slight anonymous aspect about it that
you didn't know what they lookedlike or whatever, but you had
this voice and there's someone is a connection to someone
that's happening in real time. You could call up.
Maybe you get on the air. Like you said, anything can
happen. There's some sort of magic in
that and you can't fake it and AI can't do it yet.
And you know, and like formal life, you know where I still

(13:44):
think humans really crave that kind of thing.
I think it's the slight danger of it.
That's what's cool is the you know, it's anything can happen.
Yeah, yeah, that is the beauty of it.
So, so I wanted to go back because obviously your, your,
your musical history goes back because your family, you know,
you're, you're, you're rounded as a young kid.

(14:07):
And for anybody that is unaware,your, your dad and your uncle
are, you know, crowded. Create a crowded house.
Your mom's amused. Your mom's a musician, like your
entire family is musically brilliant.
But I wanted to ask what was thefirst album or band that was
like your own that you kind of like, oh, I love this and I want

(14:31):
to do this? It's hard because there were
probably different little pivotal moments growing up where
I started reaching outside of what I was hearing at home
because obviously I I had all the musical education the kid
could want in a Beatles sense and Neil Young.
And but I think when I got to the point where I had my own

(14:54):
little cassette deck and I was getting tapes, the first things
that I remember really getting hooked on were Enigma and Wayne.
That's 2 ends of the spectrum right there.
But I can kind of, I mean, it's the same era.
So it's two things that obviously the Wayne was like, I
think, I reckon must have been through either dad or someone in

(15:17):
the band would have gone. You might like this because it
had a childlike fun thing about it.
And I was probably like 8 years old.
And then in turn, I've I've got my kids into Wayne.
I've got a vet that like, I'm surprised that I was handed pure
Guava as a tape and no one said anything.
And this song is like flies on my Dick and all kinds of really

(15:38):
dodgy. Yeah, yeah.
But I was just like, Oh my God, this is amazing.
And then, I don't know, I feel like every second kid of my
generation I know responded to Enigma.
That something about that everywhere.
Yeah, it was. And I thought actually, me and
EJ learnt that song up as a cover years ago when we were

(16:00):
doing some summer festivals in Australia.
And we thought this will just bethe most killer like daytime
festival tune that we can play because people will be drunk and
we'll start this and everyone will join in.
It'll be really funny and reallygood.
And we did it and no one seemed to know it and it was just me
and AJ Osage going and people going What the fuck?

(16:24):
Is this shit? And then really bad lyrics in
the first, like the return to innocence.
Seriously. Yeah.
Anyway, it seemed like I still believe it's gonna go down.
Well, at some time at a party orat a sing along or something,
I'm gonna pull out Enigma and it's I'm gonna bring the house
down. I wonder how often somebody
sings that song and somebody says, wait, is that Enya?

(16:46):
True or deep? Deep Forest.
Yeah, yeah. In the same little realm, but
yes I still actually find when I'm making some dinner or
something I'll be like I might Chuck on some.
Enigma. Interesting.
Got a real? Atmosphere about it, you know,
that takes me down. It does.
It really does. Wow.
I, you know, for me it was, it was appetite for destruction.
That was the first thing that I got that was like, Oh my God,

(17:08):
what's this? But then, you know, we moved, we
moved on to Seattle, the Seattlestuff, and that's when
everything opened up for me. Well, I had that step in my
evolution as well because I was probably quite little when I
discovered these things. And the and the wing thing I
still think is a bit as an influence because it was like 2
guys having fun with their little home studio.
And I'm a big fan of home recording and I like changing

(17:31):
the speed of my voice as well. Yeah.
Yeah. I think all that stuff that
actually is really good inspiration.
And then I think I, when I was about 12 or 11 or something was,
I mean, I, I was in a now and I look back, I'm like, I can't
believe I didn't sort of appreciate how amazing it was
that Crowded House were kind of having their biggest day in the
sun, especially in Europe at thesame time as the grunge.

(17:51):
Yeah. So when they were playing big
festivals, they were, you know, be either preceded or what's the
other, what's the other one postseeded by like Smashing Pumpkins
and Rage Against the Machine andthen Sonic Youth and stuff.
So I got to see a few of those bands playing at their, you

(18:11):
know, at their first peak. I remember seeing Smashing
Pumpkins and I didn't know anything about them.
And I guess it would have been like in 93 or something like
that. And and they came out and played
Somewhere Over the Rainbow, but instrumental were just, you
know, full bigmouth fuzz. And I and I was like distortion,

(18:34):
like, yeah, I didn't know that this was a force to be reckoned
with. And then then later that night,
I think it was, I don't know if I'm completely right, it was
like Pink Pop Festival and it was flashing pumpkins in Crowded
House and then Rage Against the Machine or something.
So after it was a sort of rage and I saw the whole crowd
moshing in unison and all yelling fuck you, I want to do

(18:55):
what you tell me and going cool OK.
Right, right. I'm.
Going to use that when I get asked to clean my room, you
know? I think everybody, every kid in
the 90s used that and thought itwould be smart to use it maybe
in a parental setting or a school setting and probably were
very wrong. Yeah.

(19:16):
So I know you started like smashing the drums when you were
we were really young. But I mean, for for my audience,
Liam can play everything, and I mean everything.
Where does the singing bug come in?
What were you inspired by your dad?
Or is it just something that you're like, oh, I can use my
voice too? Yeah, I think it was kind of, it

(19:40):
was understood that that's just what you do.
You know, I guess I was pretty driven to be a musician from the
moment I probably saw my dad doing it and identified the joy
it can bring people and how muchfun it looked like they were
having doing it. I kind of got the bug.
And I mean, that's why it's completely nuts now them to be

(20:02):
doing it with dad and Nick and, you know, experiencing that
through my childhood eyes. I'm like, of course I was
destined to do it. This, this is fun, you know, but
but the thing you know to to sing on things, I don't know, I
I do think it was. I just understand that like, Oh
no, if you're going to, because that's the way dad did it.
If you're going to make songs, you might as well sing on it.

(20:23):
Because in some ways I, I feel like I'm a good singer, but it's
not like it's my it's, I don't feel like that's the thing.
I'm the most confident. I like singing and I love the
catharsis of it, but it's still probably the thing I'm the most
self-conscious about when I'm making music is the sound of my
voice. And I think a lot of singers are

(20:44):
probably like that anyway. It's like hearing your recorded
voice when you're talking, you know?
But, you know, it was just like a, like a necessity, you know?
But had I found someone early onthat was a singer or something,
that might have been very different.
I don't know. But I like Elroy, you know,
Elroy writes beautiful songs andhe's got a beautiful voice in
his own way, but he's not as outgoing a singer because maybe

(21:10):
he didn't really, again, he didn't need to and he kind of
was writing songs that were moreinstrumental focused and stuff
like that. So it's, it's, it's interesting
that these things just kind of evolve themselves.
And I remember like, you know, learning, like teaching my
friends to play instruments at when I first started high school
and trying to play Tourette's byNirvana.

(21:34):
And it was an easy one just to scream and stuff and folks
coming down and I was like, look, check this out.
And I'm just going. I'm just like shredding my
voice. And I remember the look on their
eyes are like, you're going to destroy your voice.
Like you haven't even got a voice yet.
And you're just. And it probably did, to be
honest. I had a pretty raspy voice for
the first early years of bitch duper.
And I still find, yeah, I don't know.

(21:57):
I you can think about these things too much.
Oh yeah, but I. Mean I've never done.
It it's fun to think about it. I mean, it's fun to I'm big into
influences. I'm big into like kind of
mapping things back. I mean, you can understand this.
Like I I loved, I liked The Who when I was a kid, but it wasn't
until I hear Pearl Jam covering Bob O'Reilly and I start to

(22:17):
really explore them. I go backwards and I start
exploring music that inspired the music that I love.
And so I just love, you know, I love getting into conversations
with people where we think aboutwhy we did the things we did,
even if it's, you know, it's always interesting to me.
And then thinking about it's something you just said where I
don't know if it really speaks to growing up and you know where

(22:40):
you grew up. You were born in Australia, but
you grew up in New Zealand, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
But what you just said, it's like, oh, yeah, I was destined
to do this because it it broughtjoy to people.
And I talked to people that are musicians that grew up in the
States, and it's like, oh, yeah,I took lessons or, you know,
this. It seems that a lot of people in
this country did not start musicin a joyous place.

(23:03):
A lot did, but it seems that a lot of people kind of were
pushed into it. And I love hearing you just
like, yeah, it brings joy to people.
Why wouldn't I want to be a partof this?
Yeah, It was a. Special, pretty unique way to
grow up because from around the time I was born was probably
just before Dad had any kind of actual tangible success with

(23:27):
split ends. They were still an art rock band
that people liked, but they weren't, they hadn't had a hit
or whatever. And it was probably when I was,
Oh no, you know what, it probably is.
Literally after True Colors was when I was born.
So they just had their first. It was all starting to happen.
And so I never got to see, I only got to see the innocent.

(23:48):
And it probably was really exciting.
And that's a rare experience forany musician, let alone any kid
of a musician, because I was lucky enough to get to go along
a lot and Dad kept family close.I've learned in the last 40
years that a lot of our friends who are musicians who have kids
either of a similar age or younger than me, the kids maybe

(24:11):
didn't get, not all of them, butsome of them didn't really get
as much experience of being partof it because it wasn't as a
done thing, you know, to have your kids on the road.
And so I'm really grateful that I got to have that experience
and got to, you know, have be ina bunk on a tour bus and listen
to Enigma and go, this is what Iwant to do one day.
You know, I feel like it's exactly what I when I finally

(24:33):
got to the point where I had my first two of us on my own tour,
which probably sent me way into debt, I was like, it's all worth
it because I finally made it. You know, this is wrong.
Listen to Enigma. So it was a really, you know,
like amazing coincidence or, youknow, just amazing destiny that

(24:58):
I happened to experience that and then formed this pretty
unrealistic vision of what it might be like.
Because it's always changing too.
So yeah, you know. Well, I mean, I don't actually
think that I ever when I startedmaking music with bitch duper
and stuff, I think I was a smartenough and and self aware enough
person that I there was nothing guaranteed and I wasn't just

(25:19):
going to have success like dad. I probably was, you know,
self-conscious and sent overly sensitive about it not to be
seen to be using his contacts and not having his involvement.
I probably was unfairly would shut down any idea of him
helping us out. And he was respectful of that.

(25:40):
And and in hindsight, I'm like, well, I probably would have
learned, probably would have been quite helpful to have his
input because he knows what he'sdoing.
But that was part of the the Neppo baby experience really,
his pushing against it. And but you know, it all kind of
makes sense and it all happened the way it did in a in a good
way. And I had it was amazing
formative experience with my first band because we did have

(26:01):
some early success in in New Zealand and Australia.
But then we kind of took that and went to the UK and then had
the really good punishing experience of being a young man
in London, which is a completely, it's a rough, tough,
grueling country. And for a band trying to get
noticed, we, it ultimately brokeus up as a band, but, you know,

(26:25):
also formed some pretty amazing memories.
And, you know, like it was, it was good because I think that
that was where I realized I wanted to do solo stuff.
And then when things started going better with the solo
thing, I really appreciated it. And I didn't ever take it for
granted, I don't think. Yeah, and you know, I, I didn't
start listening to Betcha Dupa until, you know, after, after

(26:46):
you guys were all broken up. But you know, you started that
band young, right? Like 14 or something.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I mean, it seems that a lot of people in the kind of punk
world who did that went on to have the solo career.
It's like you, I feel like you almost have to do 1 to have the
other. Like you said, it's a learning
experience. Yeah, and it makes you

(27:07):
appreciate the ups and downs. I mean, you do see people get
really successful on their firstrecords or their first bands and
you can't help but go, oh, it's going to be tough when it
doesn't going because ultimatelyit never goes always well, you
know, and you, you don't always have an appreciation for how
well it's going if you don't have the other side, you know,

(27:30):
that you've experienced. Yeah, I, I would like to, you
know, you kind of made me think about this.
Maybe in an alternate universe, Billy Joe Armstrong Green Day
broke up when Dookie hit, and Billy Joe Armstrong's been a
solo musician for 25 years, you know?
And he's playing to 200 people. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
You know. Yeah, and people love him and
think he's great. But you know, that's the thing.

(27:51):
It's it's there's so many factors in these things.
And I think now being when I turned 40 and had kids, it did
really make me reevaluate what it was that I was doing.
Like am I like whether this is avocation or whether it's
actually a practical job? Because it's not, it's not very

(28:13):
practical. It's not, it's not, it's really
hard. Yeah.
So you've got to identify it andre identify it constantly.
I think what it is that you loveabout doing it because that's
the only way I see anybody actually succeed is through a
kind of a self barometer of success.
Not not a public 1, you know. Right, right.

(28:34):
It's it's tough to, I got to imagine, it's tough to separate
those things. But like you said, it comes a
point in your life, like you said, it was your kids and, and
turning 40 where you realize things like that, You know,
everybody's got their own path on it.
And music is I, I said I had another interview last week with
Rob Sheridan, who was the creative director for 9 Inch

(28:56):
Nails, and now he's doing Pearl Jams, all the visuals.
Yeah, Yeah. And we were talking about the
music industry and, you know, it's just like the music
industry's worst enemy is the music industry.
And it, it seems, you know, people that were successful at
one point, they make one. It's not even a misstep.
Something changes and they don'tchange with it.
And you get left behind. It's terrible.

(29:18):
Yeah, and also some people have,you know, so much success and
they're everywhere for a minute.And if someone who's working
alongside them doesn't identify when it's time to maybe pull
back and focus on the creative aspect again, it gets they get
the artist gets worn out and people get sick of them.
And, and at least that's what itused to feel like.

(29:39):
You know, it's hard to kind of make that second record if if
one's blown up because the artist feels the burden of it
has to be as successful as the last.
And that's immediately off putting.
And it's you can't really fake it.
You got to find a way that you're like, I think that's why
people rebel, you know, and I certainly found that every
record I've made is a response to the last one and maybe isn't

(30:02):
necessarily a wise move. Well, you know, like it's quite
often people are hoping that you're going to make another one
that's at least a natural progression from that one.
But I've been pushed against that and, and for better or for
worse, you know, and I still really proud of all everything

(30:22):
I've made. But I've certainly seen which
parts were perverse and which parts were, you know,
unnecessarily messing things up just to kind of keep yourself
stimulated. I.
Was going to ask you about your first solo record.
You know I'll be Lightning, which you played pretty much
everything, right? Like there's not too much on

(30:43):
there. You didn't play like, what was
your mindset going into it? You're just like, I'm going to
write all this stuff, I'm going to play everything and just see
what happens. Did you have a contract that
like you did you sign anything or you just like I'm going to
make this and then see what it looks like after the fact?
Yeah, it was exactly that. It was, you know, in the
aftermath of my band deciding tocall it a day, or at least for

(31:07):
now, we didn't fault. We didn't really have a huge
falling out. You know, there was, it was a
tense time and London and I got a bit sick of feeling like I was
the only one pushing it forward,even though the other guys were
fully committed. But they were used to me
probably being the power freak, you know, like I was for so
long, probably the one pushing it forward.

(31:28):
And and I also was probably identifying that some of we were
getting better and better at being the heaviest fucking band,
you know, around. And I was starting to write
songs that didn't want that, andit didn't mean I didn't want to
do that as well. But I I had all these quiet,
introverted metal, melodic sort of things that I had a vision

(31:50):
for how I wanted to hear them. And the same.
It was even a bit of a response to the experiences that Bitch
Dubard had recording because we'd gotten to work with really
great engineers and producers like Nickel Orne made our second
record, who's one of my favoriteproducers.
And Sam Gibson, who I'd grown upworking alongside, was really
great too. But I think through those
experiences, I, I realized that there was something in these

(32:14):
demos that I used to make myselfthat I never managed to capture
in a recording studio. And whatever that was, it was
something that you couldn't put your finger on.
It was some sort of unselfconscious aspect.
It was a looseness and a rough around the edges quality that I
I liked in Sparklehorse and I liked in things that, you know,

(32:36):
I was really into. And so I sort of went, well, I'm
going to follow my muse and kindof do it the way that people
have told me. I can't do it because especially
in that era, you know, if you were on a record company, which
I was with Bitch Duper, they were, you do your demos and
you'd be like, well, I would actually be happy to release
this because the songs come across.
But the labels like you got to go into a professional, you
know, you've got to spend 60 grand on making this record or

(32:59):
more. And so I, when I broke away from
it all, I was sort of just not unlike the same headspace I got
into before I made hyperverse was just kind of like, fuck it
all, I'm just going to do it my way.
And this is for me. I don't have anything to prove
to anyone else. Just I just want to achieve this
idea I have. And again, another incredibly

(33:20):
fortuitous and privileged position is I got to go and
rather than just demo it on my, on a four track, dad was
building his studio and all the gear was being stored up in this
top room, which was in a recording studio.
And it wasn't sound treated or anything, but there was a nave
console and a Ampex tape machine.
And I managed to get those connected together.

(33:43):
And someone showed me how, you know, I got in about, I don't
know, there's about 8 mics or something like that.
And they were just out and they were going through these
channels and I could sort of just basically worked it out as
I went because it was the same process as a little late track
that I would work on myself or whatever.
It was just the really good gearand some really nice mics.

(34:04):
And so it was a real trial and error experience.
And I probably did a whole lot of stuff really wrong.
I got told after the fact that there's lots of drums, they're
out of phase or whatever. And I was like, well, it sounds
good. You know, that that was the kind
of thing I went there was this philosophy really was like, if
it sounds good, then don't question.
It doesn't have to be technically correct.
And that's what I think that combined with these songs that

(34:27):
had actually been brewing and being, you know, a few years in
the making, songs that have beensitting there, some of the most
honest songs I'd ever written, revealing songs I'd ever
written. And so it was kind of a perfect
storm of creativity that just sort of came together at the
right time. And I went back down and spent.
And it was. And it, you know, I can easily

(34:47):
block these things out because my memory of it is like, it was
the most amazing and romantic and easy experience.
But I remember actually really struggling at times and really
going, oh, shit, you know, maybeI need help.
And, you know, I had a few friends, actually, Joel, who
joined my band, who you would have met back in the New York
days. He was an engineer but not like
a on the professional circuit, but he knew how to work stuff

(35:09):
and so I remember always really liking him.
I didn't know him that well yet.So I got him to come in the few
times that I needed someone to hit record and help me with a
few things. He came in and we formed a
little relationship and then Matt, my old drummer from Bitch
Duper was the only other person that came in and played on a few
tracks late at night. You know, we did good all night
sessions. We'd go out to a bar and come

(35:30):
back and we could make noise into the night.
And so we had, there was a few really kind of, you know, almost
biopic like moments, you know that.
Yeah, we're. Watching a movie that didn't
happen that way, there are a fewmoments that did happen that way
in that record. And, and I sort of it'd be, it'd
be almost impossible to ever recreate that again.

(35:52):
Sure. And so it was a really special
thing that was captured there. And I think that's why it still
is, you know, really close to myheart.
And a lot of other people still love that record for that
reason. And I kind of try hard not to
compare everything else I've done to that because it was such
AI don't need to make that record again.
I've made it, you know it's there.
Yeah, yeah. And, and the fact that it's

(36:12):
like, I mean, not to be hyperbolic, but it does sound
like there's lightning in a bottle on that record and, you
know, reflected in the title. But it's a nice if I were to
tell somebody to listen to it inthe order, your discography in
the order it would be. Yeah, listen to that first
because then you get a taste forall of the kinds of songs that
are to come from, you know, but you're learning and you're

(36:35):
creating more lush sounds throughout the rest of the
albums that you've put out. But it's it's one that lives
special for me. And I love the fact that it's
something I don't think I've ever seen anybody release
anything like it. 19 tracks on the vinyl and, you know, and the
CD only has what, 14? I think something like that.
Which was long when I think about it now anyway, even 14 is

(36:57):
too many songs. But I had so much stuff.
I had so much stuff. And, and I I think with the
vinyl, because back, you know, it was 2007 or whatever.
And even then was only the beginning of vinyl making its
comeback. I hadn't managed to ever get any
bitch duper record printed on vinyl because it was so
expensive and no one bought it. And that was the first time that

(37:18):
when I put it out there, and because I recorded it all on
tape, I even mixed it onto tape.And then I took the tapes over,
back over to England with me where I was still living.
And Chad Blake suggested a mastering place that I could
take the tapes to. And I mastered directly from the
one inch or whatever it was or half inch that I mixed to on to

(37:39):
acetate for the printing of the vinyl.
So it didn't even touch, didn't even touch a computer.
So there was a really satisfyingprocess and so exciting for me
because I'd always wanted to print to get one of my records
on vinyl. So it was the beginning of that
sort of. And then all of a sudden it
became like, Oh yeah, it's goingto be on vinyl.
It's only, it's only released onvinyl now.
You know, I'm not Even so far I haven't printed any CDs of

(38:03):
Hyperverse. You know, you can people can get
it digitally. But yeah, so, yeah, it was a
really, it was a quite a, a special, special time.
And it is weird to me now. Like when I look, obviously FOMO
was the next record and and thatwas a real, I was pretty burnt
out because I toured I'll be Lightning for like 2 1/2, almost
three years pretty straight. And by that point, I did have

(38:26):
expectation from a label to comeout with something else.
And I did have a manager that was like, we got to capitalize
on this, these gains we've made.Umm, and so FOMO was something
that kind of, in hindsight is, was quite a forced experience of
making a record and, and I endedup getting a producer to do it
with me purely because I, I was not in a state to be able to

(38:49):
take on a project. And had I given myself maybe 6
more months to explore and stuff, I maybe there would have
been a more logical next I'll belightning.
But that's the way it happened. And it it sort of tells its own
story in its own way. And you know, that that's what
brought us to New York was that we kind of we're still on this
on this wave. And kind of if anything, I kind

(39:11):
of wish we'd just got there sooner because that was the next
favorite little point of my lifecreatively was being in New York
and finding that studio that I had.
And yeah, that was doing those residencies was something that I
always wanted to do is play a a residency and be making a record
at the same time. So you could try songs out and
then go back in the studio and with what you learned.
And so that was, yeah, that was a really great little era.

(39:35):
Yeah, and getting to watch that from all sorts of sidelines,
front lines, whatever. I mean, it was I could tell that
things were changing and it was super creative because you would
come out with an energy like you're playing a show every week
in the same venue. You would think, you know, OK,
this person's not going to come out and have the crazy show that
they had last week. No, they're just going to do
something else that's crazy. You know, like 32 people on

(39:57):
stage and you know, you know, playing all these great songs.
Yeah, it was really fun. And I'm so, I mean, obviously we
had the energy for it. Like I'm now with two little
kids, I'm like, how the hell do I do?
We train up, you know, like it was all friends and stuff like
that, and everyone was on the same bus.
But we were like, yeah, learningwhole sets, you know, days

(40:18):
before the show. And but it made for, like you
said, it just made for a really memorable thing.
And what I wanted to build out of it was what I always saw John
Bryan do here in LA was that people would come along every
week because they didn't, they knew it wasn't going to be the
same show. They were going to get a
different show each time. And so it wasn't like, yeah,
I've seen it once. I can miss the next.

(40:38):
You know, I sort of wanted it tobe something that formed a
little community and one of which that you were a big part
of Dave. And and, you know, we every to
every one of the residences, thememorations went from the first
one being, you know, like half full or, you know, not as many
people to finishing on a real high with a sold out show.
And it always felt like, ah, should we keep going?

(40:59):
And no, but I was like, no, no, this is good.
This is yeah, pull, pull your head in.
But you know, I think we did do one extra 1 on the last one at
Union Pool. I think we did the four and it
was going so well. And then the album was about to
come out anyway, so we did one extra 1 where we played the
album front to back. Yeah.
And that was that was a good wayto to do it.

(41:20):
And then sadly, the following year after that, I think I
changed agents and I tried to make AI wanted to continue this
on whether I lived in New York or not.
And then unfortunately, it just fell through the cracks and
never happened again. Yeah, and I feel.
Like I did one in England. Oh, did you?
I did, but it was, it was kind of a, again, I, my, my goal was

(41:43):
to pick the places that I liked playing the most and be able to
do a month long residency in each place, maybe 3 or 4
different ones a year. And the one when I did in
London, I didn't know that my, the guy who had been my promoter
previous to that had been boughtup by Live Nation as they all

(42:03):
did and nobody told me. And I also didn't really know
what Live Nation meant at that point.
And my thing about the memorations was that I loved, it
was like 10 bucks or something, 15 bucks and it was cash on the
door. There was no, don't think there
was pre sales. It was like get there, get there
early, buy ticket. And in London it was like you

(42:25):
had to buy through the website. They were like an extra.
It was like a £10 ticket, but there was 10 lbs of fees and it
turned a lot of people off. And it was only about the third
one in that because we were driving to Europe to play for
like we're doing a Tuesday memoration.
The next day we'd drive over to Belgium, play, go to France,
play. It was like, and in Dallas,

(42:46):
Spain, drive all the way back and play another memoration.
It was ridiculous and kind of taxing on all our friendships.
It was actually, it was completely fine, but it was full
on and and then we get back and we'd be, you know, driven all
this way to get back and then the new show would have sold
less. It was having the opposite
effect that the ones in New Yorkhad.

(43:07):
And we were like, what's going on?
Why is this not? We're getting good reviews and
people are talking about it, butit was literally just like a
whole demographic of people thatcouldn't afford to come or
couldn't be bothered going through the ticket fees and
feeling like they were getting ripped off and stuff.
And so I was quite. That was the beginning of my
like, you know, fuck, fuck this corporate what?

(43:27):
I just keep everything outside and direct to the people.
You know, it kind of is where I started looking into in some
ways it's when I went on to a bit of a hiatus for a while and,
you know, regrouped and stuff. But it.
Yeah, fucking thanks, Live Nation.
Yeah, they killed the memorations.
Dude, they ruin everything. I mean I have, I have put a

(43:48):
pause on a lot of ticket buying because of I just I don't want
to, I don't want to support thatshit.
I'd rather buy like the vinyl. I'd rather go shopping on the
the artist website and then buy a bunch of stuff and not have
Live Nation take 75 bucks for me.
Yeah, no, it is crazy and it is a really sad, you know, and

(44:09):
look, Crowded House at a level where we work with Live Nation
because that's kind of one of our two or three options.
And for whatever reason, it's, it often ends up being our best
option. But you got to keep your wits
about, you got to make sure there's like this dynamic ticket
pricing thing. You know, it's just ridiculous
how they can on your day of on sale to the public if people are

(44:34):
all trying to buy at the same time.
Some people are getting told it's 400 bucks or whatever and
it's not. You know, we've put a cap at
$100 a ticket or something like that.
And these are big venues, but you get fans writing or angry to
you going 400 bucks. Like no way.
I'm like we said that it was not, you know, and then you go
back and she crowded with on thefirst tour we did of New Zealand
after COVID where it was the only country open.

(44:57):
We made Live Nation refund a whole lot of people that got,
you know, done by dynamic ticketpricing after we'd said we
didn't want that. And we made made them pay
everyone back because we were getting messages from people.
And it felt like a little win inmy slight little, you know, like
fuck the man, but it didn't count for anything moving

(45:18):
forward. You know, like I don't.
I'm pretty sure we've managed tonot have it happen again.
But I say that, you know, Robert, Robert Smith went hard
against it and stuff, but which I was really, you know, admired
him for because obviously he's on a huge platform doing it and
stuff. But it just seems like someone
needs to take their shit down orthey need.

(45:40):
It, it seems to be a losing battle and I, I, I have no
evidence to back up the statement I'm about to make, but
I do say it often. They have to be between the Live
Nation Ticketmaster have to be the two of the most powerful
entities in the world because what they do seems to break most
state laws in this country and they're crossing state lines.

(46:02):
So, you know, don't come after me to master Live Nation, but I
don't like you. Speaking of, I wanted to go back
a little bit to to the reason why I know who you are and saw
you live and a, a, a band that, well, a man that fought
Ticketmaster, part of a band, but you you were opening up for

(46:25):
Eddie Vedder on his first solo tour, first two solo tours for
the into the wild stuff. And that's where I saw you
playing on this stage with EJ going absolute ape shit for the
first time. Like for for for you.
What was that like? Like, obviously you got all
these new fans, all these new people listening to your music

(46:46):
that still do today. I, you know.
Hi. Yeah.
Yeah, people that own all the records and sit in front of them
on their podcast. No.
And it was amazing. And, and that experience was,
you know, it was right as as I started touring America, it was
like maybe the second, maybe third thing that we did as as me

(47:11):
and EJ had only really been touring for about 6 months on
I'll Be Lightning. And that all kind of happened at
pretty organically as well. Like EJ just was singing from
the side of stage one night and all of a sudden was in the band
and touring the world me. And then it was like in early
January or something just beforewe were heading over to the
States and I got a call from Eddie, who just had a really

(47:32):
great New Year's Eve with just with him and boom, Hawaii.
And he'd I'd sent him a live CD that I'd done the year before at
Spaceland. First thing I released over
before I'll be lightning came out.
It was like a a live show that friend of mine, really good old
friend Brady, Rest in Peace put out.

(47:53):
And it showed what the one man band thing was.
And he'd and I hadn't explained anything to Eddie.
And I told him it was my solo show and he saw the picture and
then all of a sudden is like, you know, 180 BPM punk songs
coming and boom were like, what the fuck is this?
And he called me, you know, likeit was maybe the 7th of Jan or

(48:13):
something like that. And he was like, man, I just
want to say that that CD you gave me really was great on New
Year's Eve. And how did you do it?
And I sort of told him what I was doing.
And he said, well, I'm about to do my first solo tours.
Do you want to come out and open?
And I was like, fucking of course, you know, like, and, and
the rest was history. You know, we got, it was such a

(48:35):
wonderful thing. And anyone that knows the Pearl
Jam and Pearl Jam intimately, you know, as a fan knows that
they're a big family. You know, their whole
infrastructure is built on long relationships.
And we were just so lucky to getpulled into that and really
looked after by all his crew. We were, as much as we'd had a
lot of experience of touring through our own growing up, this

(49:00):
was a different thing where we were quite naive but really got
taken under their wing. And it just was made so easy for
us. And also it was so encouraged to
just do. It was not never nerve wracking
at any point. It was kind of like, go out
there and entertain them, you know, And it was a great way to
sort of find our feet in Americaand find out what works with

(49:23):
American audiences and, you know, what part of our humor
works and what part doesn't or what part you've got to really
emphasize the punchline so they know that it's a joke.
And, you know, I learned a lot. I learned a lot, a lot from it,
but also fucking got loose as well and made a lot of fans.
And we had so many like just because it was a really great

(49:43):
audience to play to because it was people that like songs and
people that like, you know, relatively, you know, personal
and beautiful lyrics, but they also fucking like to rock.
So it was perfect for us becausewe were doing all that and we
were singing beautiful harmoniesand then we were screaming
beautiful scream harmonies and, and we had a, you know, a few

(50:06):
crazy like experiences because we quite often go out and sell
our merch afterwards. And, you know, we were really
trying to make the most of the situation.
But I remember 1 show, I don't think it was in Canada maybe
where the where we had to come out from, from backstage to come
down to the foyer where the merch stand was, was this big,
you know, like big staircase that was really beautiful and

(50:28):
kind of lavish. It looked like some from a scene
from a film. And we came down and someone
went, Hey, it's Liam and EJ and the whole room quietened down
and everyone looked at us at thetop of the staircase.
And as we walked down to the merchandise, everyone, it was
like a slow clap situation. And I was like, and we were both
really stoned. Like we didn't just really

(50:50):
stoned after the show. And we're like.
Really. Yeah, that's like just run back
sticky, turn around. Took it in and went and sat at
the thing and I just, that's a very memorable little moment.
But yeah, we met so many nice people and made a lot of really
great fans that like you're saying, like a lot of people
still show up to this day and are still really big supporters.

(51:12):
So yeah, it was a pivotal littlemoment.
Yeah, I mean, it's I can attest just, you know, for seeing that
band since I was 15, there's nota opening band that I saw that I
didn't become a fan of or didn'tlisten to because of like, oh,
well, you know, they're bringingthem to me.
So I I'm going to enjoy it because.

(51:34):
They're very thoughtful. Yeah, yeah, with very thoughts,
selections. And, you know, we have got the
chance to do a tour with Pearl Jam as well in Australia.
I'm in New Zealand. And the weird thing about that
was when I was first met my wife, she came along on the
tour. It was a pretty good way to sort
of caught her. Yeah.
It's like, come along with the Pearl Jam tour.

(51:57):
But that was what what maybe this is not maybe this is only
interesting to me. But it it was on the on the what
Lightning Bolt tour. And I'd say that Pearl Jam
probably the same age on that tour that I am now.
Yeah, it sounds right. And, and you know, that just
buzzles me out because I just, Iremember thinking, well, they're

(52:19):
quite old. And now I'm, and I'm, I guess I
feel old too, but I don't feel like it just makes you realize
how you're perceived by young musicians.
Now when I hang out, when I hangout with young musicians now,
I'm quite conscious of like, OK,I'm a, I'm a veteran now, as I
always call myself, I'm a veteran up and Comer.

(52:40):
There you go. There you go.
Still, still up and coming. But he's been around a while,
yeah. But I've been around.
I haven't gone Gray, you know. Hey look, Gray is good.
Gray is great. Gray is great.
There we go. Yeah.
And you know, it's it, it was. It's just something like, I
think the first time I saw you was in.

(53:01):
Yeah. It was Albany IN New York,
Albany, NY and you know, I went with Scott and you you remember
Scott and we were just like looking at each other like holy
shit. And one thing you said, it's
like, you know, American audiences appreciate the
thoughtfulness. I appreciate the tongue in cheek
humor that you've always kind ofhad, not just in your stage
banter, but also in the lyrics, some of the song titles.

(53:22):
But the theremin, that was the thing that that kind of sold
people on. Like I've never seen anybody
play a theremin on stage, this joystick looking thing and
you're you're like a mad scientist.
Where I mean when, when did you introduce that into your life
and your than your music? It was all around the time that
I started doing the solo thing. I, I when I was living in

(53:45):
London, man was disintegrating. I started thinking how I could I
had this Line 6 loop pedal for the past five years or something
since they came out and I'd seenJohn Bryan do looping, but no
one else was really doing it yet.
At that point it became very, itbecame the new thing, although

(54:06):
you know the instrument a coupleof years later, but but John
Bryan had always buzzed me out with it and because he plays
everything and I was like, well,I play everything.
And I love, I use the loop pedala lot as a texture on recordings
because you could, but the more you add to it, the more it sort
of glues things together and youend up with this cool texture

(54:26):
And you can make things go backwards or you can double
speed it or whatever. But you can also, I was using it
to write because I'd be like, well, here's my chords.
I can loop that and then I can start, you know, I don't have to
keep playing and I can start writing melodies and I can write
guitar lines. And then I thought, well, I
could do this live. So I booked a couple of gigs in
London. I bought a child's drum kit for,

(54:48):
you know, 50 lbs or something like that.
And Drew, drew a face on the kick drum thing.
And I, you know, I had a lot of,I was excited about this whole
new thing. And I was also, I think maybe it
was even the same place I boughtthe child's drum kit.
It was Denmark St. in London. It's like the main music shop
street with instruments and stuff.
And there was this one that I was in that I saw the joystick

(55:13):
and I'd been a big fan. I'd say I knew what it was.
I didn't know what it was until I asked him this.
It was a theremin. And I was like, oh, I'd seen
John Spencer Blues Explosion play and I'd seen him play the
theremin. And I was like, that is fun.
And that is also another part ofthis, you know, like that's
another thing I can do on top ofwhat's the loops going?
I can do the drums. You know, I wanted to find more

(55:35):
things to play with. So I got it.
And I think that it probably waseven the first solo show I did
that I had the theremin and it was all a discovery.
And I probably did it on Lead Balloon where I first was doing
it. When you saw it, it was probably
that song where I realized I built this cacophony of this
song and I could go play drums. But I could also before I got on

(55:55):
the drums, which is the big crescendo, I could, you know,
strangle the hell out of this theremin for 30 seconds and
really freak people out because it just sounded like complete
mayhem, you know? And and I think I realized
pretty quickly that that the audience all took a step forward
every time I pulled out another one of these things that wasn't,

(56:15):
you know, nothing's pre programmed.
It was all seat of the pants andall dangerous.
Every time I pulled out another little trick, it was yeah, step
forward and I lean in and I really saw that again,
engagement level change. So I sort of knew that.
And I and I, it took me to a newplace as well.
Like the more I did these sort of wild sounds and drumming, my

(56:36):
adrenaline level went through the roof.
And then I realized it's like I'm, you know, I got to be on a
really strong amphetamine with no, no drugs needed.
You know, I was just. Serious, I felt.
Like I was invincible or something.
So it was after that first show I did with the child's drum kit,
I realized I'm going to need an adult drum kit because it was
completely just crushed and destroyed.

(56:57):
All the hardware was bent and was barely holding itself
together by the end, which was kind of quite good.
If I could have a fresh child's kit every show, it would be
pretty cool. But yeah, no, it was a it was a
really great, you know, again, it was all part of that
discovery time in my life. And but the theremin was a you
know, came up came up with me from the day dot.

(57:18):
Well, it's and I and I'm on my I'm only on my third one.
Like the first 2 broke pretty quickly because I was probably
getting too loose with it. And also if I went and jumped
into the crowd to play with it, people thought it was a joystick
and would just snap it like try.And so by the time I got to my
third one, Geraldine, which I'lljust grab right now.

(57:38):
Oh, we're about to see Geraldine.
I don't know if this podcast is a visual one.
It is. It is without the visual aspect,
but I guess the Geraldine is third and and the only one
that's sort of lasted the test of time.
Someone I hit some one of my texts at some point has written
Red Nob goes here but I'm not sure why, it's pretty obvious to

(57:59):
me. Yeah, yeah.
She's she's been through the she's been through the ringer.
She's the only one that's got anactual name, Geraldine.
The other two, I don't even knowwhere they are.
I feel like I probably gave gifted them broken to someone.
They died before they could get a name.
Yeah, it's. A yeah, it's, it's something,
you know, I mean, I've seen somemusicians, I've seen John Zorn

(58:20):
before who does stuff on stage that you just don't know what's
happening, you don't know what'sgoing on.
But I just remember the first time seeing that and then
watching people see it at the, you know, during the residencies
in these small rooms. And just like smiling, you know,
I like looking at people seeing it for the first time.
And I'm like, yeah, I remember. I remember the first time I saw
that. It's great that it makes people

(58:43):
smile, you know, like what a cool thing, you know?
Yeah, Yeah. Well, now, yeah.
Now I've got my, my new things, my headset mic.
I play with a headset mic and I can go anywhere now.
So it's changed my life in the new way where I can, you know, I
can go and sit on top of the PA to sing a song.
And you know, it's quite good. I was watching, I guess it was

(59:03):
from an LA show that you somebody shot a couple videos of
you live with the headset mic. Maybe it was in New Zealand, but
how does that does that respond pretty well?
Like doesn't blow out at all. Like it's calibrated for singing
and screaming. I mean, I've did quite a lot of
research to find the right one for me, especially one that's
going to not pick up as much of the drums when I'm on the drums,

(59:24):
you know? I mean, there's always going to
be a bit of spill. And it completely has destroyed
my years of mic technique mastery because you can't, you
know, I always sing off and on the mic depending on your
dynamic or whatever and which you can't do.
But it's yeah, it took a bit of getting used to because I've
never like, I never used any monitors.

(59:45):
I've never been connected to thething.
And, and through making the Hyperverse record and realizing
that because I got some videos made for me when I joined
Crowded House and just immediately was like, no, I
can't do this. I need to hear the air.
I used them when I was recordingbecause it was great to not have
to have any sound in the room. I could stay in time with the

(01:00:07):
loops easier and stuff like that.
And, and I realized making this record that if I'm going to pull
off some of these songs that arekind of like really utilizing
the loops and the drums and stuff, I'm going to need to have
that level of accuracy. And so I so I gave in and I was
like, all right, I'm doing the, I've got the pack now for the
inniers. And then I was like, what's
another pack? You know, I got another pack at
one point when I had radio signal guitar, you know, like,

(01:00:31):
so I could go anywhere. I was opening for Crowded House.
I could go play in the crowd if I wanted to.
Yeah. Three US, three packs of RF from
me like. You were in a science fiction
movie. Yeah, I really was, I was
carrying an extra, you know, 15 lbs or something like that of
batteries and head headpieces and stuff like that.
And it is, you know, it took quite a while to get used to
because you all of a sudden, youknow, you're sucked into this

(01:00:54):
world and you're wearing the, you've got a head attachment and
you know, but I kind of, and I don't know, I just leaned into
it and it was, it's just nice. Again, you just, it's all
another step of evolution to keep things fresh and good.
And I've even been, as I've beenwriting in my room here, I've
even kept the headset mic so I can go and play piano and sing.

(01:01:15):
I can come over here and sing and and just putting down ideas
and stuff because I quite often would forget that that first
idea you have, which happens when I'm improvising on stage is
probably quite good. If just really did it in the
studio because it would the mic would be over there and I'd be
over here. And so it's been really it's.
New freedom, yeah, it's a new freedom when you're writing.

(01:01:36):
Speaking of Crowded House, last year you guys released was the
last year Gravity Stairs came out.
Was it late 2020? Yeah, so last year Gravity
Stairs came out and you guys dida full tour and I, I, I, I'm
bummed I missed you guys up in Woodinville up at the winery,
but that's like 60 miles from meand I just don't go to shows
that much anymore, but. Hit me up next time.

(01:01:57):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Make it worth your while man.
No, definitely. I totally, you know, you know, a
little personal aside, like eversince I was a mailman during
COVID, so I was literally out every day and I used to travel
for work and like COVID kind of grounding me, kind of made me
feel like maybe I didn't need totravel as much anymore.

(01:02:17):
And it kind of just like stoppedme from going out a lot, you
know? And so that's the.
No, totally. I think we're all still in a,
you know, response to that and traumatized by it, you know, and
even if we've blocked it out a bit, I certainly couldn't
believe when our luck when we were managing to tour again,

(01:02:37):
because I sort of thought for a while there I was like, those
days are through, you know? And then unfortunately for those
first tours back in 2021 and 2022, it was incredibly
stressful and we weren't allowedto see anybody.
We were in a bubble. And but yet people were, some
people were acting like everything was normal.
So we were staying in hotels where you're trying your best

(01:02:59):
not to get into an elevator withanybody.
You're trying to avoid people. But we were coming home or
arriving and they'd be like, youknow, 10 year old girls Barbie
convention in the foyer. You're like great.
A whole lot of kids like we needto book out the whole hotel or
we were just being we were so careful for so long because we

(01:03:20):
were, you know, we had 40 people's jobs relying on the
five of us not getting COVID or basically because at that point
you had to cancel your whole tour as soon as someone got
COVID. And inevitably me and dad ended
up getting COVID on that first Australian tour and we had to
cancel two weeks of shows. And so it was quite, it was a
pretty anxious time to be honestto really.
But I was at the same time, those two hours on stage where

(01:03:44):
something that again, you're reminded not to take stuff for
granted because it can be taken away.
But, but I know my folks are definitely like, we don't really
want to travel that much anymore.
And I'm so used to it, you know,but I, but doing it with my
family, you know, we all still wear masks and stuff because it
just even whether it does anything or not, I don't know.

(01:04:05):
It just feels, it just feels like a good idea, you know?
Exactly. Yeah, because it's, I've had,
almost all of us have had COVID on the road now, because now you
don't have to cancel it. So we've done a couple of tours
now. We always had it, Nick's had it,
I've had it and we've all just had to stay away from the
person. This is really weird because
you're on the band, you get up and then, oh, I've got COVID and

(01:04:28):
Nick is such a, you know, he always runs everyone.
He'll run over because he's forgetting and assuming.
And same thing. When Elroy had it, they were
wrecked. They put some, you know, what do
they call it that, you know, fiberglass, whatever screen.
So look, it just looks like, oh,it's of sound.
It's like, no, it's for his breathing.

(01:04:48):
Yeah, and I mean, like, you've, you and your brother have spent
so much time together, it's likeyou used to just go near him.
So it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. No one's actually we've when
someone's got it on the road, it's never passed on to another
member. Oh wow, which is amazing.
Yeah, so. We've managed the protocols, do
work and stuff. Oh, except for Paul, our

(01:05:09):
percussionist got it from Elroy.And that makes sense because
they're both making the beats. I don't know.
They're making the beats of yeah, so so with the, the, the
gravity stairs toward it was huge.
And the album is great. What what I thought was
interesting is you brought a song which ended up on the

(01:05:30):
record, the how, and then you have it recorded on the
Hyperverse. It's a beautiful song.
It it's an amazing song and you've got 2 videos, 1 the
Crowded House song and one for your song, which are linked
together with, you know, a wolf.Yeah, that song.
Like is there anything specific behind that song?

(01:05:51):
It seems to be pretty. I mean, it's a great song, but
it seems to be important to you to have it now in two iterations
on 2 albums. Yeah, I mean, it's, it was
probably, you know, if not my favorite thing I had made.
So I'm not really really squeakydrumstick or steel.
That's OK, my chair is squeaky as hell.
I'm just, I'm not farting. Honestly, it's just this chair,

(01:06:11):
yeah. You are.
It was one of the songs that kind of came quite effortlessly
and quickly out of these improvised live streamed
sessions. I did and and I've got to go
actually and find the little Genesis moment of it because

(01:06:33):
I've been kind of, there's a lotof shit to sort through, but I
go through some of these old streams and I can find the exact
moment that the song came to be.And that one was just the guitar
chords you hear at the beginningof my version of it is the first
bit of the loop that I made and put the bass on it.
And then it was it had an atmosphere about it immediately.

(01:06:55):
And I got on the drums and I think I was just playing, you
know, Kraut rock like beats along to it and immediately just
started singing the melody. That became the melody and just
kind of came out of thin air. And I knew that that was good.
I knew it was like, well, this is something, you know, I could
identify pretty quickly. And I knew that even as much as

(01:07:16):
that you could play those three chords over over for 4 minutes
and it's actually doesn't it doesn't wear itself out.
It's actually a very durable thing because of the atmosphere.
But I knew it needed one other part.
So I think I don't know whether I did it on stream or after the
stream was finished. I kind of just found where it
might go and muted the all the tracks, kept the drums going and

(01:07:39):
played those chords over it. And, and pretty much what my
version is is kind of that firstday of writing the song, all the
the rhythm track of it, the drums, the actually I did
change. I put some different drums on
the B section, which I think I might have even recorded
somewhere else. But anyway, what you hear is
kind of all from that original Eureka moment.

(01:08:02):
And it took a long time over dubbing on it, putting all the
guitar things on it. But while I was working on it,
I'd given dad a whole lot of thestuff I've been working on and
kind of, you know, not really thinking any of it was suitable
for Crowded House. But he had put, he gravitated to
that one naturally, was probablyone of the most formed songs and

(01:08:23):
had a little summer playlist that he was listening to while
on vacation. And every time that song came
up, he didn't necessarily identify that it was me.
He just kept on going, what's this?
What is this one? Like this keeps coming up on my
playlist. And he really liked it and it
was something about it. And then he don't look.
And it was like, oh, shit, All right, we got to, I got to steal
this one for Crowded House, you know?

(01:08:45):
No, Then he kind of just got excited about it and, and said,
let's next time we're in the studio, which was in a few
weeks, let's try it with the band.
And and that was an exciting prospect because I love hearing
what it sounds like. You know, we've Crowded House
have actually learned up a few of my older songs as well.
We were playing I from the Nihilist on the last tours,
which is a pretty psychedelic, trippy song.

(01:09:06):
Yeah. Something that you would
immediately go, oh, that's a Crowded House 1.
But that was probably why he thought, well, let's learn it up
and see. That would be a really cool part
of a live set for it to trip outand go into a completely
different space. So again, it was like just he's
always got a bit of a vision of where he sees the band evolving
to and changing. And that song, he kind of did a

(01:09:30):
bit of work on my demo where he cut it down because it was mine
was full of guitar breaks and you know, it's sprawling.
And he was like, well, I like this guitar line.
So let's let's do popper fire this and we're just let's just
use that as a hook. And we made a shorter bridge and
I hadn't even finished my version at the time.

(01:09:50):
And we went and recorded it withCrowded House.
Got it to this point where I waslike, shit, this is better than
my version, which was the point.Dad was sort of like, we're not
going to use it unless we make it better than what you've got,
you know, otherwise. But I hadn't finished my record
yet. So then we got to finish the
Crowded House version. Then I got to go and with
everything I learned about that version, go back into my 1 and

(01:10:13):
make my one better again. Yeah, I don't know if it's fair,
but it's like, you know, I got to take the bits of what I liked
about what we changed for Crowded House and also keep what
I missed about, you know, the the slight taming of my unruly
version and made, you know, whatturned to be my version, which

(01:10:35):
is a really, again, a very durable, nice atmosphere of a
song. And, you know, yeah, it.
Yeah. So it's really happy that exists
in two. It's even got different lyrics.
Yeah, some of it. Yeah, some of it.
So which is really confusing to my publishing company who are
like, which one is it? It's like, well, it's both.
And they're like, well, we don'tknow how that works for
publishing. Like which are they two

(01:10:56):
different songs or? It's, I never thought about
that. Yeah, I, I really do appreciate
it because the Crowded House version sounds like a Crowded
House song, but your version has, you know, like the drums
don't kick in until a certain part.
And then it's got the, you know,the, I like to think it's almost
your signature kind of move, even though the fill's different

(01:11:17):
all the time. But at the end, it's got the way
that the drums kind of fill by the way that song ends.
But that's you. Like I hear that.
I'm like, oh, that's Liam being Liam at the end of at the end of
your version of the song. It's got some tongue in cheek.
It's got some, you know, it's got the first Ubarak.
Then you leaf or leaf. Yeah, I'm.
Glad you picked up on that, no? One, yeah, yeah.

(01:11:39):
And I the videos, the videos areboth beautiful.
And let's talk about the videos that you're doing for all the
songs that you you put out on Hyperverse, the standouts to me
how and then Con man is absolutely what first of all,
your heaviest song, end of story.
And that video is very much likethe franticness of that song.

(01:12:02):
It's fantastic. Yeah.
Well, I mean, I wanted to make avisual accompaniment to every
song on the record, and I kind of tackled it with each time I
put a song out, I thought I was like, back to square one, which
one should we go with next? And it was whatever, I guess a
vote, a visual or something thatI would be excited to make

(01:12:24):
something for. So when that one came along, I
was kind of somewhat saving it because early on in the process,
I put a word out on social media, which is again, why I
think it's useful. I, I did it live saying, hey, I
need someone to help film a liveshow that I'm doing here in LA.
And a few people got in touch, but one person kind of stood

(01:12:44):
out. I had a chat with and connected
with and an Australian guy called James Douglas Cooper.
I think, I think I always get his middle and last name mixed
up, but it's pretty sure that's right.
James Cooper. And he was sort of like very
quickly became clear that he wasgoing to be able to help me with

(01:13:05):
these ideas I had for how I was going to make a video for each
song. Because what I wanted to do was
shoot myself in front of a greenscreen performing every song on
the record. You know, basically kill ten
birds with one stone. One day of shooting every song,
every instrument, just so I had it because I was about to go
touring with Crowded House. And so we, we did it and it was

(01:13:26):
one of the hardest work days I've ever had in my life.
I was just dripping sweat. We did all the drums 1st and I
changed outfits for every song to make it look different.
We changed angles, we changed lighting to try and give it
different points of difference. And we shot every song on drums.
We shot every song on guitar, I performed every song singing and

(01:13:50):
then sometimes without guitar. It was just like, we only just
got it all done in the day. And I think we had to cull a
couple of songs that we thought we'll do something different
for. But I ended up with all the
stuff and the first one I cut from it was Living Daylights,
which worked out really well. We're using the old video
feedback loop kind of thing and trails.

(01:14:11):
And then I shot that off my TV with a Super 8, so it didn't
look digital and came out looking awesome.
And but I was like, well, I wantto do con man next.
But I, you know, how do we use the same style of green screen
performance thing but not recreate the same video over and
over? And I'd been talking about how I

(01:14:32):
loved and miss I, how I loved the diversity of Beastie Boys
records and how they had punk songs and funk songs and rap
songs. And, and I also love that videos
that they used to make where it was just a low, low angle
camera, you know, whether it be a shy lens or whatever.
And then rapping down at it was a really powerful thing.
And Conman has got a bit of a Beastie Boys shout.

(01:14:55):
For sure. Rap rock thing about it, rap
rock. God, that's a that's a dirty
word, isn't it? And I'd also had shown James how
I loved the video for I don't know whether it's is it past the
mic or no. It's something off Paul's
Boutique where it's all rotoscoped.
I think Eddie the Auch made it where it's painted on the cells
of the film. So they'd filmed themselves and

(01:15:17):
he'd painted on top of it, that's how.
These all animated films. Exactly, yeah.
And so I, so I was like, let's use this as an inspiration.
And he went away. And I also said I had a few
ideas of what I was trying to convey and the lyrics and stuff
like that. And he started doing a bit of
rotoscoping on my performance because he was, he was like,

(01:15:38):
look, the performance alone of just you with the mic is quite
good to watch. I would happily just see that.
And I was like, well, I've got the drums and I want to get the
fills in there. And then he, there's some
boxing. It's kind of a bit of a almost a
diss track of of sorts. It's got a actual story behind
it and what I was angry about, which is why it sounds so angry.

(01:16:01):
But he just, he did a bit of rotoscoping on his iPad over
some of the cells and just immediate was like, yeah, that
that's awesome. Like that just looks like, looks
like the distortion and the white noise of the song.
And I kind of thought how are wegoing to do this?
Because my general go to is like, I can get a lot out of not

(01:16:21):
much by repeating things. And, you know, I quite like
looping video and stuff. Yeah.
He went ahead and cut whole video out of the performance and
rotoscope the entire thing like A7, I can't remember what it
was. I'm pulling this out of my ass.
7000 drawings, you know. Yeah, it's a lot.
Over the cells and I, I said I'll make the backgrounds then
and I just went and did he was doing 16 frames a second or 24

(01:16:44):
even then I was like, backgrounds are going to be 8
frames a second. You know, like we're not let's
be real here because I just got sharpie and like colored in
black backgrounds and then did colors and then I was like, why
don't I exploit my children and I got my kids to color and I was
like printed out a bunch of 16 by 9 frames and said hey, let's
do some coloring in like, you know and my oldest one did it

(01:17:06):
for like 1 and it was like sucksand he moved on.
But when I am my youngest is like quite artistic and we sat
there and I sort of set him little goals of like I didn't
make him sit there in colour andthousands of things.
I didn't most of it, but I was like you, why don't you just
different shapes and saw a few of the parts and the bridge,
like the different shapes kind of moving stuff for all my five
year old at the times, you know,drawings and it was really fun.

(01:17:29):
It was I just this is the thing I like about making videos is
the bringing it out into the real world, physically making
stuff, getting it back into the computer and messing with it and
sometimes printing it back out again and whatnot.
And slowly but surely we kind offinished this chaotic
masterpiece that it is. Actually James went and entered

(01:17:50):
it into a few film festivals andit won.
It was won the Swedish Film Awards for best Music Video and
we won best Directors. Hell yeah, that's awesome.
Congratulations. Sounds great.
Yeah. Yeah.
And we were nominated for that Los Angeles Film Awards, too.
Oh wow yeah it's you know, I we're we talked about age bunch,

(01:18:12):
but we grew up watching music videos and like to see you keep
the traditional live but doing it for every song cause singles
don't exist. Radio doesn't exist anymore
anyway and MTV doesn't exist. So you're just putting them up
on your YouTube channel, which for anybody listening or
watching, I will have the links down below.
Go watch those videos. There's a playlist, you can

(01:18:33):
watch them all. And then the Hal obviously
filmed on Hollywood Blvd. or Sunset Blvd. in LA, you know,
and in a mask. And it's just very much a simple
premise, but it's extremely effective because it's you and
you're making all these moves and it's just, you know,
movement is such an interesting art.

(01:18:56):
It really is like what you're doing.
And so I do love that video and the I Just want you to be so
happy video is absolutely horrifying in the best way.
That was the first one. That was the, you know, the
first moment. That part of this whole process.
I'd got to the point where I wasfeeling a bit overwhelmed before
I'd mix the album. But I, I had someone mix the

(01:19:19):
first song and I had someone starting to help me make this
video for just want you to be sohappy.
And both the things I started getting back were great and no
great people I was working with.But I just made me feel like,
no, I need to see this through on my own with this vision.
And so I went back in and started making the video the way

(01:19:40):
I sort of imagined it, which is horrifying, but kind of had the
right spirit of the track and then and mixing.
And so I at that point I was like mixing a song and making a
video at the same time to and then getting it mastered and
releasing it was I was going to maybe do that for each song.
But I got to the point where I was like getting up a good pace
on mixing. I was like, I'm going to mix

(01:20:01):
this whole record now. Like get it done so I can move
on with my life. Yeah.
But yeah, no, it's it's been a really cool process.
And I think there's a cool little evolution between the
first video and where we got to.The purple dress video was very
much thrown together and like shot at Lago actually I managed
to get in there before they had a show and I just got my friend

(01:20:21):
who was willing to help me for free.
Good shout outs to Elvie to comein.
And just like we just went out and filmed stuff and then I
performed on stage and she we had all these, we had iPhone set
up to film the whole thing, but she had my old SLR camera, like
one of the early digital ones and it had a look about it and
she was all shooting from underneath, which is a terrible

(01:20:42):
angle that most musicians would agree you would get stuck with
all these photos up your nose ofbecause there's always the shots
in the pit. But I decided to lean into it
and it's kind of about an uncomfortable thing the song
anyway. So I was like, let's have the
uncomfortable angle for the entire video and pulled it all
out of the stuff she shot underneath because it just
looked better. And again, it wasn't like it's

(01:21:02):
probably not. It's probably the least good
video of all the eight that I'vemade so far, but it's all heads,
the most views. I know it does.
I was, I was looking at it yesterday.
I'm like, I'm not sure, maybe it's the lyrics, maybe it's
because of the lyrics. Maybe, yeah, I don't know.
It's a it's because the ones that I've put the most work
into, apart from if you end up chucking money into YouTube

(01:21:26):
promotion or whatever, which pushes your numbers up, but I
don't think it's real. Numbers.
No, I don't think it is either. Because it I don't see any
change in engagement and everything else so.
Exactly. So I've stopped doing that.
I'm sick of giving out money to billionaires, you know, a
billionaire corporations. It's like.
Me too. I'm not.
I'm just going to let it be. It's if it only gets seen by

(01:21:46):
3000 people, whatever, it's still out there in the world and
will be forever hopefully, and someone will see it at some
point that likes it, you know? And you know, I mean, maybe 5 or
6 people from listening to this podcast, they'll go over and
watch it and maybe they'll writea comment, which honestly, the
way I look at it, it's the people who leave comments,

(01:22:08):
whether it's good or bad, but they're engaging with it,
they're listening to it. They may have an opinion you
don't like, which, you know, it's humans, but a lot of them
have, you know, are touched by it or love the song.
And, you know, I'm very aware ofthat.
I mean, that's why I created this podcast, to talk about the
things I love, because I'm not going to waste my time about

(01:22:29):
talking stuff I don't like or I don't love.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Before we get going, I did want to ask, do you have any tour
dates or shows on the books witheither Solo or Crowded House
coming up this calendar year? No.
No, I, I would love to. I mean, look, there's going to

(01:22:50):
be definitely Crowded House stuff later in the year down in
the Southern Hemisphere, I think.
But we're kind of obviously it'san off season for that band as
we make another record. But also I would love, I really
would love to do some more showsaround the States.
It's just finding someone to I again, I withdrew from the full

(01:23:16):
industry and I'm realizing is one thing you probably do need
to book a tour as an agent. And that was what I always said.
I can book my shows in LA or whatever.
If I go to New York, I can probably book a show if I come
up, sure, Seattle or Portland ORwhatever.
But it's just so much work and I'm pretty stretched as it is.
So if anyone out there is listening, is a, is a booking

(01:23:36):
agent and you know, wants to book me a tour, I'm definitely,
I really miss it. And I, I feel like it's also the
missing factor in, in this process that to get my good
message out there. So, you know, you never know,
we'll see. I'm, I'm in and out of the
states this year. I'm here for May and bit of June

(01:23:58):
and I'm back for September, but there's not much time.
And when I am back, I'm probablylike, I get excited about coming
into this room and just mucking around.
So we'll see. You never know next year, maybe
early next year. But again, I feel like I've
relied and it's actually delivered very well.
Is that you put it out there online and say, hey, look, if

(01:24:20):
there's any booking agents or anyone that wants to have, we
could even book like lounge roomshows, you know, like that sort
of thing. I've heard working really well.
As long as it covers its cost, I'm not out there to try and
make bank. You know, I would, I would, I'd
love to not lose money. That's the idea.
But it's the same with thing like I'm kind of with this
record coming out. I'm and I'm really glad you

(01:24:40):
reached out to me about coming on here.
And I'm like, I bet you, there'sa lot of people that are in the
network of, of engaged fans and people that have been tuned in
at some point along the line that now do quite interesting
things with podcasts or online blogs or whatever.
And if anyone wants to talk to me about this record, I, I like
to talk, as you probably realized through a lot of

(01:25:01):
talking on here. I'm, I think I'm just going to
put it out there again and say, because I, you know, I could, I
could hire a publicist, but it seems like that money would be
better spent making more music videos just for my enjoyment
level. But if anyone, yeah, if anyone
listening wants to get me on their podcast, hey, get in
touch. Sure.
Yeah. Through the socials I guess.
Do we, do we have, do we have a yeah, do we have a release date

(01:25:24):
for Hyperverse? 20th of June. 20th of June.
So maybe we can do another, we can do another talk when the
album comes out. And you know, Liam, I always
enjoy talking to you. And it's been so goddamn long.
It's just, you know, I finally have this place where I can have
these discussions. And like I said, it's fandom.

(01:25:46):
And I don't know if you are evera comics person, but fan scenes
obviously in punk, punk scenes have always been a thing.
And fan scenes and comics have always been the connecting
tissue of like, hey, you like this, I like this.
Let's connect and let's, you know, write an article about a
book that we're reading or writean article about an album we
listen to. And I think in what we've talked
about on the Internet and, and, and the algorithm and stuff,

(01:26:09):
it's just, I want to be connected with people about the
things that I love. And I want to connect other
people with these things so theycan discover them just like I
did. So cool.
Well, I've had similar from the streaming experience with
Hyperverse. It made me realize it made me
get comfortable in front of a camera either talking to
somebody or talking to nobody ortalking, responding to comments.

(01:26:31):
I made me realize I quite like doing that.
And again, it's the same thing where you feel like even if it's
no matter the size of the platform, it's really nice to,
to connect to people and interact and, and have things on
a in real time, have a reaction to things.
So I've often thought about continuing on the hyper verse,

(01:26:51):
whether it be making music or not, just kind of trying to keep
a, a way to, it's like bouncing off someone, isn't it?
You know, it's like, you know, these conversations that we
have, I've learned quite a bit from and it'll inform the next
step of what I do with hyper verse, you know, And again, I
thought about how it'd be great to just even make AI guess, for

(01:27:11):
lack of a better term. Podcast where talking to other
artists in a similar position tome is the topic and finding out
what they're doing to try and navigate the shit show that is
the modern and music industry and, and sharing some of what
I've learned and hopefully coming out of the conversation
with a few new ideas, each a bitof excitement and inspiration.

(01:27:33):
And then whoever watches it, whether they be a aspiring or
established artists watching getget something out of it too.
You know, it's all part of the education.
So, so you know, you never know.I'll get you on my podcast.
Yeah, I would love that about whatever.
I don't know the one last question I want to ask you,
which is literally an unanswerable question, but I
need to ask it because you and your family are one of the many

(01:27:58):
exports from New Zealand that have touched my life personally
in creative ways. But what is it, you know, Flight
of the Conchords and Peter Jackson and all of these
wonderful people? Is it in the water?
What's the secret to New Zealandand why does it produce such
wonderful people? Depression.

(01:28:22):
That's why Scotland produces so many, so many amazing people
too. I think being so isolated and,
you know, it's a really unique upbringing to have and a
different perspective to have. And also probably not unlike the
Pacific Northwest, there's a lotof rain.
There's a lot of time spent indoors trying to make something

(01:28:46):
to entertain yourself. So that's some quite good fodder
for arts. You know, that's why a lot of
good art comes out of the South Island or Dunedin had that, you
know, the whole Flying Nun kind of sound out of Dunedin is got a
similar darkness and depth to itthat some of the Seattle stuff
in, you know, that does as well.And I don't know, I but I do
think isolation has a huge part of it.

(01:29:07):
And there is an element of feeling like no one's ever going
to hear what you're doing. So maybe you make something that
without the rest of the world inmind, and that's quite a good
tool for creativity. Yeah, but it's.
Probably changed because there'sa lot of new stuff that's
getting quite successful out of New Zealand now.
And I can't put my finger on what has created this stuff

(01:29:31):
because it's obviously a lot in the pop world and but I just
think there's a lot of creativity down there and it's a
beautiful place. So it is.
There's a lot of inspiration to be had.
Thanks for watching I'm I was soexcited to finally get to have
Liam on here and it's perfect timing with his new album coming
out. If you did buy, you could have

(01:29:53):
actually purchased this album already via record store day.
They released a limited amount. You can check him out on Spotify
and all the places that we talked about as we listen to
music, but I will link his YouTube channel in the
description below so you can check out all these videos that
he's done for these songs. Honestly, it's the best way to
digest this stuff before the album comes out.

(01:30:15):
And you know, you can follow himon socials and all that good
stuff. For me, I appreciate it.
If you do hit the subscribe button on whatever you're
listening to or watching this onSpotify, Apple, Amazon, YouTube,
whatever, iHeartRadio reviews dohelp.
If you're on Spotify, you can scroll up to the top, the header
of the podcast, and if you go all the way to the top, it'll

(01:30:37):
give you the option to give a star rating.
On Apple, you can leave a star rating and you can actually
leave a review. You can leave comments and all
this stuff. All that stuff helps me get this
out to more people. So I really do appreciate it.
And I'll see you next week for the season finale of Direct
Edition. Bye now.

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Liam Finn - Into The Hyperverse

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Liam Finn - Into The Hyperverse