The Life, Times and Beats of Jonny Phillip (Limbeck, Benjamins, Trapper Schoepp)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And that's one of my favorite beats actually, is that 4 on the
floor thing. And I try to throw it in
whenever I can. So that guy.
Exactly that guy, whoever you are.
And that guy, ladies and gentlemen, was Matt Cameron from
Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. Remember, if you forgot what

(00:25):
terror was like, it's back. Welcome back to Direct Edition
Podcast, the podcast about nothing and everything.
And I am your host, Davide DavidApostrophe E Davide.
That's not my name. It's Dave.
But you can call me Davide if you're sexy enough.

(00:46):
I'm bringing sexy back. All right, look, this is ruining
the episode already. Dave, shut up.
Today I'm bringing a special guest as I always do.
Everybody's a special guest. If you're not, well, I hope I
never announced you as a non special guest because then that
just makes me feel sad. Cut that part.
Today's guest is an old friend of mine, his name's Johnny

(01:06):
Phillip. If you're a indie music fan,
especially in the Midwest indie music fan, you might know him
from certain bands like The Benjamins.
The Obsolete also plays drums ina band called Limbeck, which is
a West Coast band, but he's not West Coast.
He also played drums for Tommy Stinson of The Replacements, as
well as Trapper Chef and The Shades, which is where I met

(01:27):
Johnny was when he was the drummer for Trapper.
Somebody I became very fast friends with who's been around
in the music field for a long time.
I grew up in Milwaukee and he gotten had gotten sober about 14
years ago, I think now. And he was kind of the person
who helped guide me towards my path to sobriety and helped me

(01:50):
figure out, you know, the help Ineeded to get and all that.
And he just became really great friend in all of those years.
And I had gone to seen him in Milwaukee do some great things.
And I, I thought it would be a fun time to sit down with him,
especially because he's owned a record label, a small record
label called Good Land Records. But now he's an addiction
specialist, counseling, he workswith addiction and recovery and

(02:14):
he's just doing some great things.
And I thought it'd be a fun timeto sit down and talk about that
and joke around and talk about some of the favorite things that
we have in common and some of the differences that we have in
our favorite things. Talk about music and life in
general. I think you're really going to
enjoy this conversation because it it's truly a conversation

(02:34):
that goes from here to there, back to here, back to there.
Big thanks to Johnny for doing this.
And without any further ado, let's get into my conversation
with Johnny Philip, AKA John, AKA the Goodman from the Good
Land. Welcome back Direct edition
friends and family and foes. We got another episode today and

(02:57):
I'm bringing you an old friend of mine, somebody I've known for
well, close to 15 years, a drummer by trade in bands like
Limbeck, The Benjamins, The Obsolete for Trapper Shep, Josh
Burwanger, also his own band Mini Meltdowns and a Co founder
of Good Land Records. And after his, I knew him from

(03:21):
his musical career, Somebody I Ifelt a kinship with in sobriety,
somebody who works with people in recovery, my friend John
Phillip, as well as the biggest Liam Liam Finn fan in the
universe. Oh.
My gosh, what a what a great intro and I can't believe that

(03:41):
you plugged Liam Finn in that intro.
Well, I was going to say. Couldn't have done it better
myself and everybody to be let in on the inside joke.
David Wexler here loves talk about Liam Finn and also his
brother, right? Yeah, well, his, his brother is

(04:02):
Elroy and his dad is Neil. And, you know, I mean his his
dad and uncle are the founding members of Crowded House, the
biggest band. In New Zealand.
I was just great. Yes, they are.
They are. I was almost going to say
today's podcast is getting to the bottom of Why Use Your
Illusion to is a superior out superior album to Appetite for

(04:26):
Destruction. Oh my gosh, that's a bold
statement, Dave. I don't know if I don't know if
I would follow that theory either.
Well, you know, it's, it's something that I think I've been
teasing you about since I've known you.
Not that I don't like appetite, but you know, I don't know, it's
something. What's there to not like

(04:47):
appetite about appetite? Well, that's something is a, you
know, for a musician and a musicmusic fan, you know yourself,
which you're, I would say you'realmost as much of A music fan
then, you know, like your love for music almost supersedes your
love for playing music. But there's something to be said

(05:08):
about these these albums that wegrew up with and love.
I'm tired of hearing the hits from appetite.
Like I they they no longer make me like excited.
Whereas hearing stuff like Brownstone or Night Train or My
Michelle, those songs kind of excite me, kind of like in the

(05:30):
way that never mind, I don't need to hear Teen Spirit ever
again, but give me Drain You andon a plane all fucking day.
Yeah, that's a good statement. You know, I I kind of go in
circles with all of this. They're all I won't touch
appetite for maybe a year or twoand then I'll put it on in the
car and I'm like, fuck, man, this is just, this sounds so

(05:54):
good. Josh Burt, you know, circling
back to Josh Burwanger here. We were driving in his car once
and he is the biggest Guns fan and Axl fan ever.
And we were talking and he goes,if aliens came down to planet
Earth, what is the the piece of art that you would show them or

(06:15):
have them listen to you or have them watch to help them
understand who we are and show them something super badass.
And he was like, I would show them appetite.
I was like that. That's pretty fair.
I had checks it. Would blow it.
Would blow their minds. Well, I think I think that would
blow their minds and possibly feel like we're the aggressors

(06:36):
that we truly are as humans. But alternatively to that, if
you really want to get them to love art real quick, aliens, you
give them OK computer and they'll bring peacefulness to to
meeting humans. You know, give them a little
Radiohead 'cause that that is analbum for aliens, OK?

(06:57):
Computer, that is. You're totally right.
Yeah. But great, great G in our
argument and also talking about never mind because I've dipped
into incesticide recently and inutero.
But you know, if you just take astep back, it's all great.
Oh yeah. You know.
We're just blessed to have thesealbums to circle back to, and it

(07:21):
means something different to us now than it did 20-30 years ago
too. Yeah, the lens of, I wouldn't
even call it nostalgia, just memory, you know, like how we
viewed something when we first heard it and how we view it as a
different person in our lives. It's the beauty of art in, in,
in totality and totality. And it really is the beauty of

(07:44):
music. I mean, me and you both, you
know, you're you're a die hard Beatles fan.
I'm a die hard beat. I love The Beatles.
I know you look to Ringo is likeyou're one of your main
inspirations on the kit and likegoing back and listening to
their albums, taking a break or,you know, like listening to 1
and not listening to another fora while.

(08:05):
It it it changes your perceptionof how good they are and in the
best way possible. For sure.
And another thing to just to throw on top of this is that The
Beatles records are some of themare being remixed by George
Martin's son Giles. He's doing such a great job with
these remixes. I don't know if you've ever
listened to them, but it kind ofbreathes new life into the

(08:28):
albums. And you're hearing things that
weren't so much upfront before, but also maybe you just couldn't
hear because they weren't working with a lot of channels
and the technology was totally different.
But I mean, it's it's pretty awesome to hear these albums in
a whole new light. It's kind of like they were at
70% brightness and now it's like101.

(08:51):
And some of this is being done to to the Replacements albums
too, which I think we're in direneed of remixing cause to the
80s didn't treat them very well.I mean, that's that's super
evident with a, a band that I love, Metallica.
When you hear the remixed, you know, the mixes of these first
four or five albums, it's like, oh shit.

(09:13):
Like there is so much depth to what they were doing in the
studio. Where is when you listen to
something like, you know, Injustice for for the first
time. It's heavy, but it sounds
shallow, you know? No, totally.
And Speaking of injustice, for all there's that whole is there
bass on the is there bass guitaron the album?

(09:35):
And then somebody on YouTube added bass guitar to the album.
It's pretty funny. Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, I mean, those records definitely needed a bit of a
remix too. Speaking of the Replacements, I
mean, that's a that's a guy thatyou've drummed for when you were
in the Tommy Stinson band for a while, right?

(09:56):
I was, it was such a blessing, man Ben Pearlstein, who we all
know and love. And I actually was texting with
him about 20 minutes before I got on the screen with you.
And he says hello, says he's best.
He said he can't wait to to listen to the episode, But Ben
was managing Tommy Stinson. This is years ago, kind of like

(10:19):
in the later aughts, and he was putting together a band for
Tommy and his whole dream. Ben's whole dream was to have
The Obsolete, my old band back, Tommy at some point, and so The
Obsolete be his backing band. And it didn't exactly happen
that way. Me and Tim sort of playing with

(10:39):
Tommy for a couple years and then Justin Perkins would kind
of come in when he would have some spare time.
And now Tim and I are totally out and Justin has been in
Tommy's bashing pop for the last, on and off for the last.
Like, I don't know, 7-8 years? And they did that album together
and they did Little Stevens Rock'n'roll cruise.

(11:02):
But yeah, it's just funny how Tim and I were part of the fold
and Justin wasn't. And now Justin's totally still
part of the fold. And we're not.
Right, right. Yeah, I mean it.
It's, it seems like. So before we even get into your
drumming, I want to tell my listeners how we met, you know,

(11:22):
was at a it was at a Trap or Shep show.
It was the last. It was Yeah, it was it was a
show in New York City. And I had met Ben already, but
but I'd only heard about you. And we met while we were both
still drinking. And it's just, it's like what
you guys were my first introduction to any version of a

(11:45):
Midwest music scene. Like I didn't, I didn't know
anybody in the Midwest music scene and didn't know much about
it. And it seems very much like,
almost like a baseball, like a minor League Baseball league
where you all want to lend you this player and you guys can
have this player. I like 'cause there's so many
people in this scene that have played together in bands or, you

(12:07):
know, same recording studio thateverybody recorded at, same
producers. I mean, it's, it's, it feels
like it's a one of the tightest music scenes that has ever
existed in the US and across thegenres.
Yeah, especially that specific time when I met you too.
It was very incestuous. That's how I got involved with

(12:27):
Screeching Weasel. That's how I got involved with
Tommy. Paul Collins beat Trapper, and
then Trapper got involved with everybody.
It's just, it was very palpable.You know how everybody was
getting along and, and the upswing of everyone's music.
And I think we're all jiving musically as well.

(12:50):
But I also remember when we first met, you weren't the
biggest fan of. Me.
Yeah. Well, that's that's a story for
another time. Yeah, we'll do that for Part 2.
Well, you know, The thing is also when you hear about
somebody, it's completely different from when you meet
somebody, you know, like you could hear great things about a

(13:12):
person and meet them and they'rea total Dick.
Or you could hear, you know, whatever about somebody,
mediocre things and then meet them in their total sweetheart.
Like I felt when I first met you.
Yeah. And when we actually got to
talk, you were like, I don't know, I felt a certain way about
you, like you and I could be best friends.
And then we we were really good friends.

(13:34):
I would come to Queens and stay with you.
I remember. Yeah, and I've been to
Milwaukee, you know, a handful of times.
That is, I mean, I saw you, you know, play the national anthem
in the Brewers game, sing for the National.
Anthem, I forgot that you were there, actually.
Wow. Yeah.
Oh my. God, yeah, I'll, I'll see if I

(13:54):
can dig out a photo and flash iton the screen, because I
definitely took a bunch of photos of that.
Amazing. Yeah.
That was a cool time. Brewers and Cubs, Yeah.
Yeah, and that was the only timeI went to Miller Park.
But what a what a great stadium,what a great city.
Which is a great city, which is now Miller.
Miller Park is now am fam, American family whatever.

(14:19):
Did you see the run that the Brewers are on?
No, I did not. Oh my God, like I I'm not, I've
loved baseball and I love any kind of sport.
But when you are working in the addiction field like me, and
also when you start a family andyou have a 21 month old baby
girl, it's just hard to find thetime.

(14:39):
And especially when you're not living in your the exact state
that your team is playing in allthe time, it's hard to get those
games unless you pay for the expensive app or whatever.
But we almost won twelve in a row.
So we won eleven in a row and then we won fourteen in a row
and we've had the best record inbaseball for like the past three

(15:02):
weeks or so. Oh wow, my brother must be happy
He's a he's an he's an OG Blue Crew fan.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, my brother.
John John Wexler. That's right.
That's right. He grew up by his favorite.
I mean, we were Mets fans by birth, but his favorite player
turned out to be Robin Young when we were kids, so he just
became a Brewers fan. Oh, yeah.

(15:22):
Robin Young's class. Class.
Class Class. See Robin Young and Paul
Molitor, one of the some of the best Brewers of all time.
Yes, yes. And some of the best players of
their time in general, you know?Yeah, we were lucky.
Yeah, we grew up in a, you know,a very wholesome time in a lot
of the things that we love. But you know, we could do

(15:47):
another entire podcast about what it's like to be born in
1979 and growing up with the with the things that we loved.
Absolutely, and I hear the Mets are struggling right now.
So yeah, well, that's. Sorry about that.
Consistent and constant thing throughout my life.
So I I don't even care about sports anymore.
I had I I worked in that field for too long and it just drained

(16:08):
me of loving sports. Yeah.
How how long was that run of youworking in that field?
2008 through basically the pandemic.
Yeah, it's a long time, Dave. And now I switched it up.
And how long you've been doing this comic business for?
Since 2021, I started the YouTube channel, the West Coast

(16:30):
Avengers YouTube channel in 2021and then this podcast about a
year or so ago. But comics have always been, you
know, art in general. You know, that's film, music,
comics, illustration. Like that's really always been
the thing that I've fallen back on for my love and some of my

(16:50):
career. And so this podcast serves to
bring all of that under one umbrella and give me a chance to
create a place for a fan to speak to people that I admire.
Because, you know, I think this is something that you can relate
to, whether it's comics, music, Phantom has driven those both of

(17:13):
those things to places that didn't exist before.
You know, Xenes have existed forboth comics.
And obviously music festivals, whether it's San Diego Comic Con
or even something like Riot Festis started from or Lollapalooza
was, you know, was Perry being like, I'm a fan of music.

(17:34):
I want to take bands out and do this thing.
Like fandom without its toxicityreally does drive the arts.
No, that's, that's a great statement.
Yeah, that was that was very beautiful.
By the way, thanks. Yeah.
I mean, sometimes we can get so obsessed with comics or music,

(17:56):
yeah, or, or whatever it may be.But yeah, I mean, this all comes
back to our fandom is pushing this into a new realm and where
it is right now and where it's going to go.
Yeah, yeah. I mean it.
It's something that I, I don't know if you were ever a comic
collector at all or a comic reader, you know.

(18:18):
Back in middle school and early high school.
Yeah, when The 90s? Yeah, and funny story, I had two
or three of the like the rather large.
White the long boxes. Full of them and I thought I had
some pretty decent comics in there and when I lived in this

(18:38):
house on Oakland and Milwaukee, my upstairs neighbor Vince, he I
basically gave him all my comicsjust to check out and see the
value of all of them. Kind of forgot about it months
and months and months later and time went by.
Actually, Vince ended up passingaway tragically really early.

(18:59):
And I was just, I took it as wherever they end up in his
family. Totally cool.
He had his time with them beforehe passed.
That's pretty cool. So we had that different part of
our relationship together beforewe passed.
So that was kind of neat. But that's where my collection
went. Oh well, I mean, hopefully it
went to a ultimately isn't a good home.

(19:19):
I mean, what what fascinates me in a draw the parallels between
music and comics is the fanzine culture.
You know, you could pick a genreof music.
A lot of it would be punk scenes, obviously, especially
coming out of the Bay Area. But you would you would same
thing with comics. You would have people starting
scenes and getting early contributors to them.

(19:42):
That would turn out to be pros. But a lot of times it was
interviews and, you know, guy like what's his name up in
Canada? Nardwuar.
He's the perfect example of, youknow, somebody that's a fan that
created a A Ave. to interview the musicians he loves and look
at, you know, he's one of the most recognizable, you know,

(20:03):
like punk icons of music. And arguably, I think one of the
the greatest interviewers of alltime.
For sure, for sure. And that's that's where it comes
from. It comes from fandom because you
know, it's every, every artist, what whatever you're doing,
every performer, creator, whatever.
If you've got people that are saying like, hey, I love this

(20:26):
person, I want you to check themout.
Like that's the organic way of growth.
I mean it. And so that's what I try to
represent with what I do. That's really neat.
Have you ever come across any ofthose early Punk magazine?
See, because that's the The Ramones are on the 1st edition
of that. I think it was 1974.

(20:50):
I've never come across anything that early, but I did recently
find some Zine. I can't remember the name of it.
I have it in a box in in one of my my rooms that is more of a
new wave goth fanzine. And you know, it's like I think
1 cover. I think it was a Depeche Mode
cover. And then the next month, it was
9 Inch Nails. And it's like, you know, and it

(21:13):
features articles written by different people and, you know,
a little page of classifieds of people looking for members for
bands. You know, that's how a lot of
people connected in those early days.
In every scene is like, oh, classified ads.
Yeah, and Maximum Rock'n'roll was really big for me in the 90s

(21:35):
in high school and then Comet Bus.
Yeah, Comet Bus. Awesome.
Awesome. It's such great writing and he
writes out all of his and I don't know if he still does and
maybe it's just a font that he uses, but his font is so great.
It is. He hasn't put one out.
I feel like in about a year and two, 'cause my brother, you'd

(21:59):
appreciate this. One day.
My brother just sends me. This must have been a decade and
a half ago. He sends me the issue where he
basically talks about touring with Green Day and, you know,
being there early, you know, oneof their early drummers, but
then kind of going on the road with them.
And ever since I read that, I tracked down as many issues as I
could and read every single one cover to cover.

(22:21):
Dude, so cool. Yeah.
And I want to say, and if my memory serves me right, I want
to say you sent me that same comic book.
I did. I did.
That is right, I did because I bought like as many copies as I
can find and sent them to people.
Dude thank you for that and it'sso bad ass of you, so kind.

(22:42):
Yeah, I love doing that. I love, you know, 'cause it's
the part of being in, you know, kind of the space that I've
always existed. And it's like trying to connect
dots and be like, oh, you like this, then you might like this.
I mean it. It's what we do.
Also as as music fans, you've shown me so many bands.
I mean, or, or you've played with so many bands that I've

(23:04):
seen live that I'm like, I neverlike you played drums for and
the Paul Collins beat and I saw you play and I was like, I never
heard Paul Collins before. And that was a great show.
Great, great stuff, man. He's, he's been making music and
playing since the, you know, like the middle of the 70s.
Yeah. Great, great stuff.

(23:27):
And what fascinating. But I, I do want to ask you, and
this doesn't have to go into this territory yet if you don't
want it to, but you've got to becoming up on 11 years, right?
Yeah, yeah, actually, no, I'm, I'm eleven years in 12 is next

(23:47):
March and you're you're three years, you're 15, you're coming
up on 16. I'm actually 13 and half almost.
And time, Time is weird 'cause Iwas like the right that gap
between our both getting sober is is not as wide as I think it
is. Yeah, for some reason I so I'm a

(24:08):
year behind of your actual time,but I remember, and correct me
if I'm wrong, my memory is failing me a lot lately, but
Trapper was down recording in Nashville.
This is before I moved down herewith Brendan Benson.
And I want to say I had a lot ofconversations on the phone with

(24:28):
you around that time 'cause that's when you were super sober
curious. Oh yeah, yeah.
I had my my, my, my blow up night where I would just like
you know. We all we all have them and you
know, it's beautiful is that youwanted to make a change and live
differently and feel better and do good.

(24:48):
And I mean, look at you now. You look so fucking healthy.
And. Happy and you do too.
Thank you. You're, you're creating, you're
doing this now, you're starting your own business.
Just would you have been able todo any of this?
Fucked up? No, not at all.
Not at all. I mean, you know, I, I didn't

(25:09):
know you too deep, You know, like I, I knew you on the back
end of your drinking, but you got to me on like the last year
and a half of me just every, youknow, every night, if not, you
know, every other night. And I barely, I don't remember

(25:29):
that person. I remember a lot of situations.
I remember a lot of my places that I would hang out and then,
but I don't remember the person that I was in the best way
possible. I'm so like away from that
person and I would not be able to do fuck.
I don't think I'd be here. Put it that way, you know.

(25:50):
Yeah, Amen. I, I agree with that statement
too. For myself and my my doctor,
when he looked at my charts and I went to treatment, I had I had
hepatitis in the liver at the time I found.
Out the second. Second day I was in treatment
and also did you come help pick me up from Hazelden too?

(26:12):
I did. Yeah, I did.
And I flew all across the country.
I was in the yeah, 'cause I just, I think Ben was telling me
like, was it Danielle who was going to pick you up?
And I was like, yeah, fuck it, I'll go out there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, that just came back to me.
Seriously, so cool. But yeah, so my doctor was

(26:36):
looking at my my chart and he was like, John, I guarantee if
you choose to drink like this after you leave here, you will
not see 40. And I was two days into being 33
at the time. And I just, I heard everything
that he was saying. I understood it.
And that was when I was able to say, OK, I, I get it.

(27:00):
I I need to completely have a funeral for my old self and I
need to move on and become somebody else.
Wave the white flag, if you will.
Like I give up. Yeah.
What? I'll do whatever you tell me to
do. What was the hardest?
What was that like? You know, in general, what was
the hardest thing to let go of? That wasn't the actual booze.

(27:25):
Like for me it was the social aspect of it was like being out
all night. That was the hardest thing for
me to let go of. The social aspect is huge for
me. I mean it's such a great social
lubricant. You know, they call it liquid
courage, nicknamed for a reason.Yes, that is a big reason.

(27:52):
But I want to say anxiety and self hatred was how I, I just
buried it in alcohol and I miss,I miss alcohol for burying my
problems. I mean, I wasn't working on
myself, but it's, it's such a easy thing to drink and be like,

(28:14):
OK, I need to relax. I need to shut my mind off.
But you know, at the same time Isay that and it's like, I like
being present. I like having the lights on, but
it wouldn't it be nice just if you could just have one night,
like when you're super stressed out and depressed and you
fucking hate yourself, you just be like, you know, you're
restless, irritable, discontent if you just have one like 4 hour

(28:37):
night, you know? But, you know, it's, it's
something that like, I know, butbefore, like, whatever happens,
you know, if I live to be 85 andI'm on my deathbed, I'm, I'm
getting a fucking glass of Scotch in before I go because it
doesn't matter. But for me, yeah, I think about

(28:58):
that. And I'm just like, my mind will
flash forward to the next day. And then the next day is like,
oh, you know, just that big fuck.
And. Yeah, what did I say?
What did I do? The hangover.
I don't miss the hangovers. Oh my gosh mine got so bad.

(29:21):
The person who's seen me at my worst hangovers, you know him,
Scott. You know it's it's Scott.
And oh, man, yeah, he's seen me at the worst.
At the worst of the worst. Like a hangover that would kill
a normal human being. Yeah, love Scott too.
By the way, shout out to Scott Horbits.
Yeah, that's right. Scott, He's in.

(29:43):
He's in London right now. He went to go.
He's going to see Gorillaz play one of these very special shows.
They're doing the first album inits entirety.
So cool. Yeah, I saw that.
And you see saw Coldplay. Yeah, you went to see Coldplay
last night or the night before and was like, literally, I was
like, what? Did you get a ticket on stage?
Yeah, I mean, it looks like he was just like on that catwalk

(30:06):
thing. I love and by the.
Way are, are you guys going to any of the Oasis shows or?
No, no, I've never, you know, I've, I've never been the Oasis
fan. I'm a blur guy.
I'm a blur guy as well, but I also love Oasis.
I I have a lot of love for them.I mean, look, what's the story

(30:27):
of Morning Glory is like, you know, that's a Mount Rushmore
type album for a lot of people. And I understand it.
It's I just, I can't get over there like them as people.
It's hard for me to get past howmuch of a fucking piece of shit
both of them seem to be. But also, they're very

(30:48):
hilarious. They are and.
Super entertaining once you get past them being total Dick heads
and assholes and super selfish and self-centered you.
Once you move past all of that, you're like, Oh my God, they're
actually pretty funny. Yeah.
All their disses are just secondto none.
They are. I would almost enjoy them more

(31:08):
if they were comedians instead of musicians.
Some people have said that, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, OK. Anyways, we can move on from
Oasis Blur all day. Well, anyway, here's Wonderwall.
Speaking of nardwar, Blur did not do nardwar very, very nicely

(31:29):
years ago and and have I guess since apologized, but.
That's good. I well, they are a band that I
think they embraced. They got caught up in the same
shit that like bands do when they get huge in their
respective countries. And I think when they stepped
away and he started Gorillas like that was a huge, it seemed

(31:51):
like a huge growing process for everybody because when they came
back with Magic Whip and then they came back with the last
album, it this is a completely different band that has grown
and matured. But Damon to me is one of those
guys that like, I think of like guy like Trent Reznor or Dave
Grohl that can do everything andso well.
Damon is one of those musicians that's just like, I'm going to

(32:14):
choose to do this and it's goingto be so good and you're never
going to see it coming, how goodit is.
Totally. Yeah, but I'm sure there were
twats in their in their heyday. I mean, like, look, I, I think
we all know as humans, as men, that we're just assholes when

(32:35):
especially when we're like growing into our 20s and 30s.
Some people never grow out of itthough.
I think, I think I think it was the the drummer and maybe a
little bit of Alex James. They were the culprits.
But I I want to say they blamed a lot of their usage at the time
and all that, which I totally understand.

(32:57):
Sure, sure. You're not the person that you
really are truly when you're when you're using and drinking
like that. Yes, and it the, The thing is,
is when you aren't that you aren't abusing any substances or
you haven't matured and you're in your late 30s going into your
40s, you're in your mid 40s. That's when you really need to

(33:17):
reassess what what's wrong? You know, totally.
Fully agree. So I mean, I'm still a a moron,
but I'm not like, you know, an asshole.
Well, it sounds like you're not as big of a moron as you used to

(33:39):
be 12 years ago. No, definitely, definitely not.
Definitely not. I wanted, I wanted to take it
back to to your early days. Like what's the, I know it's
very well documented that Hysteria by Def Leppard was your
first album. What's the album that makes you
want to or what's the band or orsong that made you want to pick

(34:03):
up the drums and the sticks and start bashing shit?
It's funny you say that. Led Zeppelin 2 and Metallica's
Black Album. Because I mean, know that
there's a lot of differences there.
But when I first got into drums,my dad had this this SVT Ampeg

(34:26):
bass amp which I have now. It's AB15 and we used to wire it
to a boom box and actually record off of CDs and other
tapes and stuff and he would blast tapes through that amp and
I would play along with them. So Led Zeppelin 2 and
Metallica's Black Album is what I learned how to play drums to.

(34:47):
I was self-taught. Yes, yeah, I know that you're
you're that's that's something that you're very proud of, which
is great because like, you know,everybody learns in different
ways. And, you know, I tried to take
guitar lessons. They didn't.
They didn't take at all. It's not for everybody.
Music also playing an instrumentis not for everybody and that's

(35:07):
totally, that's totally OK. Yeah, yeah.
But. Yeah, but being self-taught, and
it's so funny that we're talkingabout this right now because I
was just talking about this at awork breakfast because somebody
asked me somewhat the same question.
You know, I wish I was more trained.
So I was rudimentarily like fit as a drummer and I could do

(35:31):
crazy drum solos and but I'd, I've never wanted to be that
kind of player, but it would be kind of cool to be flashy like
that occasionally. But you know, me learning and
self teaching myself. I have this feel that I can't
learn from anybody. I can't be taught, you know, I
have my own language. Yeah, be like.

(35:55):
I, I think that's what's got me the gigs that I have gotten over
the years, is that also my personality that I, I've, I've
been easy to work with and granted, I'm sure there's times
that I have not been. Easy to work with, sure, sure.
But it's like having, you know, it's like if you're a writer and

(36:16):
you have your own writing style and you never were taught that
style. It's just, you know, it's how
you learned how to write. Sure you can refine it by
watching other people how they do things or learning little
tips and tricks along the way, but organically it's it's great
to self teach, you know 'cause then nobody can tell you you're
doing it wrong. It's literally yours.

(36:38):
It's how you learn. Exactly.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember when I was teaching myself how to play drums and
instead of doing kick and then snare after, I was doing a lot
of floor on the floor. And I think a lot of people that
are learning drums do that 'cause it kind of feels natural.
And I remember somebody that wasa drummer that I was actually

(36:59):
hanging out with was like, you're doing it wrong.
And he's trying to teach me. He's like, screw you, man,
You're never going to be anything on the drums.
And that's one of my favorite beats actually, is that 4 on the
floor thing. And I try to throw it in
whenever I can. So fuck that guy.
Exactly. Fuck that guy, whoever you are.
And that guy, ladies and gentlemen, was Matt Cameron from

(37:19):
Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. And he just resigned.
What do you think about that? You know, I mean, look, he's, I
think he's one of the greatest drummers of my lifetime.
He's played in pretty much any band that he plays in is an
amazing band. Can't forget Temple of the Dog
as well, for sure. I think he's just tired from the

(37:42):
the road and you know, the, you know, even though they don't
tour as frequently as they used to, I think he was just kind of
like, all right, I've done it all and I totally.
Respect that. Yeah, and he still, he basically
said he's like, he may be done with the the band and and doing
that, but he's not done with music.
Like he's still going to create his own stuff, which he's been

(38:04):
doing on and off for years, you know, and Pearl Jam will find
the right fit. Maybe they'll get Jack Irons
back, who knows? Who knows?
Wow, that. 'D be crazy.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, what do?
You think of this? Oh, I'm sorry.
Go ahead. No, no, I mean, I've, you know,
they, they've never had a bad drummer.
They always have good drummers. Great band and great live band.

(38:26):
I hear it's one of these days. The best, The best?
What are you going to ask me? What do you think of this 9 Inch
Nails Foo Fighters drum swap? Oh, the swap, it's so wild.
Like I just hope it was done on good terms with everybody.
I hope it wasn't like this fuck you, fuck you thing.
I just saw nails up in Vancouverand you know, Josh Freeze is,

(38:49):
you know, he's the top. Like he, you know, you're
looking for somebody to drum. He's the top, he's at the top.
He's. Totally nuts, man.
He has been for many, many, many, many years.
And that's how he plays with allthe greats.
With when he was with the vandals still and they had
there's a live video of the vandals playing and it's on
YouTube and they do like a kick drum Cam along with him, him

(39:12):
playing and just he's fucking out of his mind.
He is. And there's videos him him
playing with 9 inch nails in like the later aughts.
He's like, dude, he's otherworldly.
He really is. He's he's and the fact that he
can adapt and play with any bandis just a testament to like not

(39:33):
just his skill, but like his hispassion and like his
workmanship. Like, oh, you need me to play
with. OK, cool.
Yeah, I'll do this tour. Give me like, I mean what?
He jumped on the 9 Inch Nails tour after four days after it
was announced or something like.That they they said two days of
practice or something. Yeah, that's crazy.
And you got to look at his resume.

(39:54):
Devo Guns and Roses sting. Yeah, perfect circle.
The replacements, perfect circle, it's just endless.
It is, It is. And Cortini.
No, no, I'm sorry. Elon Rubin is a fantastic
drummer. I think he'll do great with, you
know, the Foo Fighters. I just like I said, like I'm
Trent and and Dave have worked together a bunch of times.

(40:17):
So I just hope that that relationship wasn't soured
because, you know, they're both not only not to say that they're
not alpha males, but they are alpha dogs of their their world.
But we all know Trent has a very, very, very sharp side to
him. Like, you know, he's he's told
off pretty much everybody that'sever crossed his path.

(40:38):
But you know, these are both bands that I absolutely love
with front men that I will, you know, pay money to see and buy
their albums whenever they release whatever it is, you
know, and but seeing Freese especially, they played Perfect
Drug. And then right after they played
I'm Afraid of Americans, it was like, oh man, this is a treat.

(41:01):
Dude, it's, he's absolutely out of his mind.
Yeah, yeah, it seems like a really good dude too.
Totally, Yeah, He's he's a really nice guy.
I've only I met him a couple times 'cause he was with the
Replacements when they reunited IN20142015 whatever 2013.
To 20. That's right.
Then I I saw him play with them.You did, and I went down to

(41:23):
Atlanta to shaky knees. It was my birthday in 2014, and
Ben and Tommy flew me down, so Igot to hang out with him a
little bit. Super nice, Super nice guy.
You know, he'll talk to anybody.Super goofy.
Yeah, he seems really goofy. I shit, I'd love to have him on
this show. He would be a fun guy to talk to
you, but it could be like a 12 hour interview because he's done

(41:45):
so much. Yeah, yeah.
And Alan, Alan Rubin, I'm reallyexcited to see what he does with
the Foo Fighters because he's got that open drum style.
And it's, I mean, the, the dude I never knew much about until
when I first moved down here, I became friends with this guy
Jonathan Clark, who great musician down here in Franklin.

(42:09):
I remember we were driving in mycar and he had a couple CDs,
burnt CDs on. And this is 10 years ago.
And he threw in a Paramore CD. And in my mind, I was like, I've
never been a fan of Paramore. I'm like, I guess I have to sit
through this. And he he put on that song Ain't
It Fun. And then I learned that Elon

(42:29):
Rubin plays on that album. And that song in particular is a
fucking monster of a song. And I was like, well, I guess
Paramore is really good. I didn't know that.
And and that was the first time I heard Elon Rubin.
I'm like this dude is crazy. Yeah, and when he so good he was
with 9 Inch Nails for what decade?
Decade and a half. And you know, I'd seen them,

(42:49):
I've seen them. They're probably like the 4th
band, the fourth most band I've seen the most, you know,
16/17/18 times. And he's just between like
seeing him and Freeze play over the last two decades.
It's like, man, they're the the just two talented guys.
It's it's funny that you mentioned Paramore.
I've been listening to Hayley Williams released like 17 self

(43:12):
released like 17 songs over the last month.
And I've been listening to that a lot.
And I was never a Paramore fan, but I'll say it's like a singer
song, like a songwriter, like she's the stuff that she just
released is fantastic. It's got a nice variety to it
sound wise, but it's all just really good lyrically and

(43:35):
musically. I'm I'm excited to hear that
because I enjoyed her last couple solo records.
Yeah, yeah, they have variety. Really, really good textures and
good variety, like you said, Butas a singer to you, like, she's
really fucking good, man. Yeah, You can't deny it.
Feels like her voice hasn't really aged the day.

(43:56):
And you know, I, I was thinking about, I was doing a little old
research trying to figure out ifI ever saw them live and they
were at work tour on Long Islandin 2007.
I'm like, holy shit, they've been, you know, she's, she's
been singing professionally in front of crowds for 20 plus
years now. And it's.

(44:16):
And I want to, I want to say management back then.
I want to see if they were trying to edge her out of the
band and try to make her go sololike Gwen Stefani and and that
kind of thing. Yeah, I I guess it just didn't
work. That's OK, because Gwen Stefani,
I, I wouldn't, I mean, like, I'msure everybody would like to
have her success, but I wouldn'twant to follow her musical

(44:38):
career because it's just kind ofwent that way for me.
Yeah, personally. Yeah, I I agree with that
statement. Yeah, and you know, she's
probably a Trumper anyway. Any who.
I I did want to ask about you. You touched on The Replacements,

(45:01):
but that's a band to me that I, you know, not that I don't know
a lot about, but I never realized their impact on music
because it wasn't a band that I was anywhere.
They weren't in my radius. Westerberg came into my radius
on the single soundtrack, but I didn't even have the connection
that Paul Westerberg was the guysinging in a band called The

(45:24):
Replacements. I just thought he was a guy
named Paul Westerberg for for you.
Can you give me a little bit more of your love of them, but
also like how they impact music so much and how many people like
how, you know, give me a little history on them as it pertains
to the Midwest music and all that?
Yeah. So me being from Milwaukee, our

(45:46):
neighbor to the north is Minneapolis, where they're from.
So I've always been in tune to that Midwest punk rock'n'roll
sound. I never grew up with The
Replacement. So in the 90s when I was, you
know, early 90s and I was getting into punk, they weren't
on my radar, probably because ofthe people I was hanging out

(46:06):
with at the time. But then early 2000s, I had this
roommate named Nate and The Replacements were his favorite
band. Tim was his favorite record of
all time and I remember he put on Tim for me and my first
thought was, man, this album sounds like shit.
Like the drums are terrible. There's a couple songs on it

(46:31):
that didn't really sound that great to me, like Lay It Down,
Clown and Dose of Thunder. I didn't quite get it the first.
I would say six months of being introduced to the Replacements
and then all of a sudden it it just clicked and I got it's like
Paul Westerberg's writing these songs.

(46:53):
He's like the lovable loser. Everything's very self
deprecating. He has really good metaphors in
his songs and imagery. But you know, he kind of is
writing for us loners out there with heartache and broken
families what whatever it may be.
And then I I found out later that he is also suffered with

(47:16):
substance abuse and I think the band as a whole did too.
Tommy is now sober too, which isreally.
Cool. So I got really exposed to their
music and then I just got obsessed with it, 'cause it, it
clicked and I got it. And the sounds of the records,
you know, like they're very 80s.Yeah.

(47:37):
Reverb, drums and some of it's alittle bit low fi for the first
2-3 records, which all of it hasjust gotten more charming with
me over the years. But then if you take apart some
of their great songs, it's like the start of with with R.E.M. of

(48:01):
course, too. They're like the big starters of
college alternative rock. Like they're the ones that put
college alternative rock on the map.
R.E.M., you know, like 30 more times.
So they went on to sell like millions of records and
replacements were like the the indie darlings of alternative

(48:21):
college rock where I think they're probably selling 150,
two 100,000 records. Pretty awesome for this little
punk rock band from Minneapolis,though.
And then Paul went Paul went on to be on, you know, the single
soundtrack. And what is that?
The he also did another soundtrack and Tommy plays with

(48:45):
the bass on it. It's like, God, I'd have to look
something out of season or it's some animated cartoon movie.
Oh, OK. And then Tommy did soundtrack
for another movie with that guy,BT he's kind of like a an
Electro pop guy. So they've just gone on to do

(49:06):
interesting things. And then Tommy going on to play
with Guns and Roses and ultimately playing on Chinese
Democracy, which is very ironic.Yeah, yeah.
And and then being part of that camp in a way through Ben and
getting to know them as a band personally and being in the same

(49:27):
van rides as Paul Westerberg, you just totally get it.
You get this like lovable loser charm.
Yeah. Paul Paul Westerberg, he doesn't
own a cell phone, I guess, or hedoesn't have an, he doesn't have
Internet and I guess maybe he might have gotten a cell phone
and maybe just has his son's number in it.

(49:47):
I think there's a lot of lore around everything.
Replacements. And especially.
Paul Westerberg It's just there's, there's nobody like
Paul Westerberg in the world. He's, he's like an alien.
I mean, and he, you know, their music is responsible for so much
like they're so many bands that'll cite the replacements,

(50:10):
you know, or, or as they're called the Mets, you know, as,
as their favorite band or the the reason why they, they
started a band. I mean, it's, you know, there
there's and I got to see them twice and they were fantastic.
I'm, I'm not ultra familiar withtheir music, but you know, there
are songs I know Alex Chilton and, you know, there's a couple

(50:31):
other ones. Yeah, Yeah.
And they're, they're fantastic. Like the one, the more I got to
be around you and Ben, the more I learned about how important
this band was. And it just when I hear that
even if I'm not a huge fan of the music, I enjoy the music
because I know it affects so many people in such a positive
way. You, you have to respect it,

(50:53):
even if you don't dig on what you're hearing.
Yeah. I mean, it's super
groundbreaking for that time. And I think they're getting more
love than ever now. They're, you know, they're,
they're going back and remixing some of the albums.
They're doing these expanded boxsets.
That seems to be the big thing for the anniversary of a lot of
these older albums, which is really cool because you get to

(51:15):
hear live shows from that era that you haven't heard before.
Or maybe it sounded like shit from a really crappy bootleg.
And now it sounds really great and you're hearing these extra
bonus tracks that never made thealbum, that didn't see the light
of day. Or if they did, they sounded
like shit. Yeah, it's really cool.
Yeah, and, and getting the extrastuff.
I mean, look, it's going to makeme feel old saying this out

(51:38):
loud. Last year, American Idiot turned
fucking 20 years old. And the box set, which I had to
buy because the show I was at that they played the day the
album came out is part of that box set.
And I'm like, I went to the showat Irving Plaza.
I got to see them play the entire album the day it came

(51:58):
out. 20 years later, I get to hear that show again.
That is so cool, Dave. It's.
How was how was that show? And it was bonkers things.
It was bonkers because like we're hearing, you know, we knew
American Idiot because that was the first single.
We're hearing this album for thefirst time live.
And then after they played the album, they launched into like a

(52:18):
six or seven song set with, you know, Longview and basket Case
and they played Brain Stew into jaded.
It was it was ape shit. And then craziest thing about
that is MTV was had a camera crew there and they thought that
they should go on the floor for when they play Brain Stew and
jaded and the cameraman got wrecked.

(52:38):
Oh my gosh, that's fun. Yeah, yeah.
And it it's the one thing, you know, I'm not a big fan of
record companies exploiting and releasing this thing every
fucking time that they can. But when they do it right, when
the band is involved and they doit right, you get these great
box sets. You know, Radiohead has done it

(53:00):
with OK Computer. Pearl Jam did it with 10 verses
in Vitology and, you know, included all this cool extra
stuff. When it's not a cash grab, when
it's an actual like, involvementof archiving and putting stuff
out, Metallica's so good at that.
They put out these giant box sets with all this stuff.

(53:20):
So yeah, for a Replacements fan,if they're doing that, that's
amazing. Dude, the replacements box sets
couldn't have been done better. I mean, they're winning Grammys
for these Bob, Bob Murray, whichis a writer from Memphis, he's
going back and he he helped write the liner notes and I
think he was working with Sire and whoever is doing these these

(53:43):
box sets, he's working with the band and the record label execs.
So he's kind of the middle man and I guess his days of doing
these are over. But then the Let It Be box
that's coming out and Darren, who's Paul's manager, I'm sure
he picked somebody in the right place and that's going to be

(54:04):
really awesome to you. And Justin Perkins from The
Obsolete is he. He remastered the album, but
then he also helped mix some of the live concert and extras,
which is pretty cool. People that care doing this
stuff is, is really what matters, especially as we as we
dip into the late, late stages of late capitalism and and

(54:28):
things start to literally go on fire.
We need people that care about the arts to be in charge of
releasing stuff. Right, right.
Couldn't agree more. And by the way, I saw Metallica
for the first time. Oh nice, this year and.
What you think it? Was fucking.
It was fucking great, dude. What they do, they do very well.

(54:50):
Yes, and not playing the same set list twice and doing all
these, you know, making sure they're pulling out songs that
people haven't heard or haven't heard in a while.
And you know, like those guys are consummate performers.
Like they know how to. The thing that impresses me the
most is we've watched now 40 years of James Hetfield and his

(55:14):
voice has it, it, it's, it was apoint where he wasn't taking
care of it and you could hear it.
And he has taken so good care ofhimself in the last 20 years.
It's like, wow, this is this is a, a real treat to hear how he
sounds. Kirk never lost a step.
Never. Oh yeah, yeah, I, I, there are
some hang ups I have, but I rather concentrate on all the

(55:37):
positive things. Metallica is still out there and
doing it, and James and Kirk arekicking fucking ass.
Like James, like watching him. You're like, OK, you're watching
greatness right now. And these songs are ingrained
almost in your DNA because you've heard them so many times
and they they're like an old friend or like a family member,

(55:57):
you know? And he does not get the credit
that he, I mean, Kirk is Kirk, but James doesn't get the credit
as as a guitarist that he shouldbecause, like, to play what he
plays while he's singing is not an easy task.
No, not at all. I mean, he's he's one of the
greats. Kirk Hammett.

(56:19):
Yeah, so all, all cheers to Metallica.
Speaking of record labels, you know you, you Co founded, right?
Co founded Good Land Records. Co founded Good Land Records in
November 2010, so we are coming up on our 15 year anniversary in
a couple of months. What's your biggest pleasure of

(56:41):
running a record label? Having a record label like what
you know, getting to release stuff, but like, let's hear from
you what your your biggest pleasure of it is.
I First off, I never set out to ever start my own record label.
That was never a goal. So it was very unexpected.
I had a friend that I went to high school with, Andrew

(57:02):
Wieland, and he presented me with this idea and he had ideas
of how to get funding and how toput everything in place and he
wanted my connections. It basically this lunch that we
had it all makes it all made sense and I threw in all these
ideas to help this plan happen and we came up with the logo and

(57:24):
the name together. And basically we were releasing
5-6 albums a year in our heyday,which is pretty hefty for a very
small label. And we were we had a a publicist
that was basically hired for every album.
Heather W out of Chicago and Heather W also does all of the

(57:46):
publicity for Riot Fest for years, but then also she is
written instrumental and gettingmusic Here's involved in getting
me sober. So it's it's all everything that
has happened. It's just been so it's it's like
destiny, you know, like I was supposed to start this record
label. I was supposed to become a total

(58:07):
worthless drunk, get sober and go to Hazelden and have these
best friends and have this love and support.
But the the I want to say just to get back to your question,
the the best thing is just releasing art.
So I am one of the people out inthe world that has helped art

(58:28):
get out to the other people and and have helped friends release
their album that don't have the resources to exactly do that.
You know, like my friend Nick Junkins, his alias is Archie
Powell, Archie Paul in the exports we released two of their
albums, which was a total pleasure.
And, you know, they, they didn'thave money for a publicist and

(58:51):
to press the album and they didn't have any distribution or
anything like that. So it was the perfect thing to,
for me to step in and help and use all of our connections to
try to help the label, to have the label help the band,
publicist, help everything. And it was a lot of trial and

(59:12):
error because I never did it before and didn't know what I
was doing. Made a lot of mistakes
financially, made some mistakes on releases.
Maybe like I, I pressed too much.
Sure, like this thing is going to sell 500.
No worries. We end up selling 250, so we're

(59:32):
sitting on 250 albums. But All in all, it's been so
cool to be a musician, to be on the other side of the coin and
help musicians and their art getout to the world.
And I really tried to do my bestthat that I actually could to to

(59:53):
help that release, get wheels and sell more copies and help
them out on the road, get more notice.
It was wonderful and we still have it, but it's just not as
functioning as it once was. And we don't have the capital
and we don't have all these bands touring on the road and an
in house publicist anymore. But we are still helping friends

(01:00:17):
like. There's this honky tonk band out
of Milwaukee, the Hughes Family Band.
They, we, they have 2 releases, A7 inch and a full length.
And we did both of them for them.
And sadly, right while we're working on the full length, one
of the twin brothers ended up dying unexpectedly and so we got
to release that in his honor. So it's actually the album's

(01:00:40):
actually called One Last Night with Nathan Hughes and it was
really, it was really touching to be a part of it.
And I had people message me likethanking me for putting it out.
And it was awesome to work with the band and just help them
through all of their pain and, and handle some of the things
that I don't think they wanted to at the time.

(01:01:02):
And then this new, this new release, not to, to jump off of
this like truly painful, beautiful release, but this,
this band, Hello face. It's super crazy that we
released their album because their lead guitar player is Dan
from the Benjamins. So it's a full circle moment.

(01:01:24):
And for my old band. And then their singer Bobby is
somebody that I went to high school with that I actually
played in a very, very, very tiny high school kind of emo
rock bandwidth in the 90s. And then now I'm putting out his
new record, and that's just so wild, man.

(01:01:45):
That's how it works. Like you said, it's it's
destiny, but it's also like you trusting a choice that you made
and trusting yourself to make a choice with whether the outcome
is good or not. You know, that's, that's The
thing is like you, you, I can't even remember the complete

(01:02:06):
quote, but it's in the, it's in Lord of the Rings.
It's a it's when you step out ofyour door, you take a step.
You never know what you know, like it's the talking about like
you got to make that first step.And you know, we, we can't, if
you sit around and don't, you never know what's going to
happen. But if you do, you don't know
what's going to happen when you do.
But at least you did it. I love that and it also reminds

(01:02:31):
me of this thing. Did you ever listen to the Rich
Roll Podcast? I haven't, no.
He's a recovery guy too. So if you ever get a chance to
check it out and he had this woman on talking about the
decision making process and how decisions are so important,
right? Like if you're going to choose
to go to Yale or go to Harvard, you know what if you go to

(01:02:54):
Harvard and you don't meet many friends, you have a bad time
academically. You don't get the job that you
wanted from this. So it's like maybe you think you
made the wrong decision because you didn't choose Yale.
Maybe you would have even had a worse decision if you would have
chose Yale. So you don't have to choose

(01:03:16):
something and still want it thathard.
You have to make it the right choice.
Yeah, that's a great that's. A big thing, you know, it's like
you can't also this is also another thing that I want to
throw into the mix too, because this woman said it to me.
I was shipping a good land records order at the post office

(01:03:37):
and there was a mom with two toddlers, a boy and a girl.
And you know, my, my wife and I have a 21 month month girl.
And you look at parents and kidstotally different after having
one, I'm sure. And I'm, I'm sitting there
waiting for this mom to be done with her transaction.

(01:04:00):
She has the kids grabbing cards out of the little end cap thing
that they have at the post office.
They're creating such a ruckus. And I'm kind of giggling to
myself because I'm like this, this mom has her hands full
today. This is, this is a lot for her
and I feel bad. And then I, my transaction was
super quick and then she ended up holding the door for me when

(01:04:22):
I left the post office and I said, you don't have to do that.
I'm like, I'm thank you so much,ma'am.
I'm like, you have your hands full.
She goes, she just stops. She goes, Oh my God, I do, but
she goes, she goes, I love thesetwo kids and I go, I have one
myself. We just have one baby girl 21
months and she goes, are you guys thinking about a second?
And I was like, we, we've been talking about it.

(01:04:43):
We don't really know if it's something that we want,
something that we don't. We're kind of in the in between
just kind of like talking about it stage and she goes, I do want
to tell you, I don't regret having a second one.
She goes, I don't want to have athird one because that would be
chaotic. But she goes, I never regret the
things that I do. I regret the things that I don't

(01:05:05):
do. And she goes, you have to live
your life that way. And I'm just like I never
expected to have this conversation at the post.
Office at the post Office well, I could tell you from a former
post postal employee, a mailman,I have weird conversations like
that I had those a lot because especially it was during COVID,

(01:05:26):
so you know people didn't see you know a lot of people didn't
see anybody beside me all day so.
Very true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
remember this. You're a walking postman, right?
I was, yeah, in Seattle for a year and a half.
I mean, the post office is ultimately what gets me never
wanting to work for somebody else again and puts me on this,

(01:05:49):
you know, talk about decision, right?
Like COVID hits, I make the decision, I'm like, all right,
let me apply. I get the job.
I'm like, all right, let me do this.
And then it ultimately, like I said, it just kills my spirit of
ever working for anybody other than myself again and puts me
where I am today. And you know, five years from
now, if I haven't, and you'll appreciate this, if I haven't

(01:06:10):
interviewed Eddie Vedder on thispodcast, I will consider myself
a failure. Eddie Vedder is going to come on
the pod one of these days. He is, he is, I will, I will
make it happen. I mean, that's, you know, the
decision making thing, like you said, you, you make a decision
to do something. I mean, there, there are days
where I, I sit here and I'm justlike, I got to send out five

(01:06:32):
pitch emails for the podcast. I just got to do it and I got to
push through that like weird mental block that says nobody
wants to fucking come on your podcast, Dave.
And I do it and I do it and like, if I don't do it,
nothing's ever going to happen. If I do do it, maybe nothing
happens. But the other side of it is it
does work and it does happen, but absolutely in but

(01:06:54):
indecision. I mean, so bring it back to
sobriety and, and being a sober person, you know, it took me
years to figure out who I was post sobriety.
Like as David, you know, as myself, like who am I?
And that journey continued. You know, I moved to the
northwest, which definitely changed who I was and made me

(01:07:18):
feel like I'm supposed to be here.
But what about you? Like, you know, you took you at
3 1/2 years before you got out of Milwaukee after being sober
and you're in Nashville. Like, where did you start?
When did you start to feel like,OK, this is the John Phillip,
this is who I am? That's such a great question and

(01:07:43):
I'm actually still figuring thatout 13 1/2 years later.
You know, I thought getting sober was going to give me all
of the answers. I thought it was going to answer
my anxiety, my self hatred, my fears, my shortcomings.
I thought just everything is going to be solved over the next
couple years. It's just not real.

(01:08:05):
You have to do more work than just putting the the drink down
because the alcohol was the solution to my problems.
So I had to, I had to find a different solution.
And I would say getting in the right relationship is, has been
a big help because I, I haven't picked the greatest partners.

(01:08:27):
And sometimes it's, it's not, it's not the partner that I
chose. It's just we're not maybe, maybe
the best choice to be together as people in a relationship.
So finding the right partner, somebody that supports you that
I have right now and that was wanting to start a family with
me. I want to say therapy is, is the

(01:08:51):
biggest help to figure out who Iam.
Also finding a partner that calls you out on all your shit
because if you'd have no accountability like you have
nobody their daily dealing with your fears and anxiety and your
white lies. And you know, it's easy to
bullshit things in life. It's, it's nice to have somebody

(01:09:12):
to call you out on things so that you can continue to grow
'cause I, I think I was constantly in the wrong
relationship in my life that wasn't challenging me and wasn't
calling me out in the right way,wasn't supporting me in the
right way. But I think I'm finally making
steps to figure out who I am. And life also gets in the way

(01:09:35):
too. So, you know, COVID happened.
That was hard for everybody and everybody had their own
challenges for it. Three years prior to that, my my
dad passed away suddenly of cancer.
And I'm glad that I was sober for that 'cause I remember
everything of like the last yearthat I had with my dad and I

(01:09:58):
wouldn't, I wouldn't have had that if I was still drinking.
And I'm also glad I got through it sober after he passed because
it would have been so easy to pick something up, you know?
Yeah. I remember talking to you in the
months surrounding that and we talked about that a little bit.
No, I, we, we've had really goodconversations.

(01:10:21):
And I know over the last four orfive years they've gotten less
and less. You know, life just gets in the
way. And yeah, and I and I know that
you haven't held it against me or anything and and vice versa.
No, it's, it's just, we're, we're separated by the amount of
stuff that we're doing. And, and just like you said,
it's life. But it we we pick it up as if

(01:10:43):
there was no time. Right, right.
I I also thought I was this person that was going to be a
musician all my life. Yeah.
That's all I wanted to do and that was all I saw myself doing.
And I wasn't going to be happy if I was if I wasn't doing
music. And that was a big part of my
downfall of the last year of my drinking was Lembeck wasn't

(01:11:07):
touring anymore. I wasn't playing with Ben Weasel
and the the version of Screeching Weasel that was
around anymore. I was in this thrilled,
directionless phase in my life. I was working the same job that
I had for eight years at a bar restaurant.
Yeah. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't
being creative at all. And I had to figure out like,

(01:11:29):
OK, who do I want to be? What's my Plan B?
And that's when I discovered that I am somebody that wants to
help somebody on their journey to live differently and live a
life of recovery or sober 'causeevery program, everybody's
program looks different. So once I figured out that I'm
not just a musician and this guybehind the drums, this crazy

(01:11:53):
drunk, I had to figure out like I am a helper and I want to help
people and that my Plan B ended up becoming my Plan A.
And I want to do this as long asI possibly can.
But it's funny. It'll take you 13 1/2 years or
13 years, whatever it is, to help try to figure yourself out

(01:12:16):
because you're always changing. We're complex beings.
We're onions. We're onions.
We have so many layers to peel back.
I mean, that's the thing that I,I think I found out the most was
like 3 years after my sobriety. And you know, like I'm like this
person in Seattle and I go hiking a lot.
And then six years after my sobriety, I'm like, I want more.

(01:12:41):
I want more for my life. Like I want to do something
that's more meaningful and then,you know, just the last 3 1/2
years, I feel like I'm still a work in progress.
But God damn, I found I found this Ave. that I've created and
that's where I want to be and who I want to be.
And yeah, I could probably use some some shit calling out, but

(01:13:03):
you know, my therapist gets to hear all of that.
That's. Great.
And that makes me really happy that you're in therapy too,
because I, I think everybody needs a therapist.
Yes, I think that's, you know, unfortunately in this country,
not everybody can even be guaranteed to get assistance in
in in healthcare. But if you can, I think it's a

(01:13:24):
definite good idea to have therapy, especially right now.
God. Positive positive mind frame is
really big thing too. Yes, positive mental attitude
that PMAP. MA baby.
This and this brings me back to some an interview that I saw

(01:13:46):
with Kevin Smith a few years ago.
I we can all get lost in this like selfish loop this, this
negativity loop, whatever it maybe.
And you know, it's really easy to talk about music or this
person you don't like or to judge something.
And you know, Kevin Smith had that brush with death and

(01:14:10):
somebody wants to talk to him about like, what didn't you like
about this movie or what, what albums have you heard that you
don't like? He goes, you know what?
I'm not going to waste a minute of my life after having this
brush with death. Talk about things that I don't
like. But I will talk to you for 8
hours about the things that I love.
I love that so much. I think it's such a great
perspective, man. Yeah, I'm trying to focus more

(01:14:31):
on that. Me too.
And and I do you know, I, I, youknow, I could could probably
talk to you. And if you've listened to the
new Deftones album for 1/2 hour about how fucking good it is,
you know, or you know how much Ienjoyed the last three movies I
saw Weapons, Superman and and Fantastic Four, you know, I.
Weapons was so good. Oh.
God, it was great and and and that movie would have caused us

(01:14:54):
all extra therapy time if it didn't have humor in it.
Luckily it had enough humor in it to like, not make you feel
like you want to invert your skin and run away. 100% There
are times where people in the lab in the movie theater were
laughing so hard like I thought I was going to pee my pants.
It's worth that last 10 minutes of.
The movie yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah no and.

(01:15:16):
And I try not to waste my time on the negativity or even being
negative. It's when you look at what's
going on around us, is, is the scary part.
It's the, you know, all the things which, yeah, I talk about
at length on this podcast. They usually when I do a, a solo
episode, I just, I just go into it because like, I don't have to
worry about somebody being like,Dave, I can't be around you

(01:15:38):
while you're saying those words.It's a federal crime.
But but but in in sobriety totally.
Like I feel like, and I, I don'tknow if this is the same for
you. Like you said, it's a
everybody's different. But I feel like I'm never going
to betray myself being sober. Like there's never anything I'm

(01:16:01):
going to do that's going to betray Dave.
Like I'm as clear headed as possible even when I'm sleep
deprived, delirious. I'm on a ramp, whatever it is.
Yeah, sick if. You're not feeling well.
Yeah, you know what? You, you know.
What you've done this you sayingthat is you have different

(01:16:23):
boundaries than you did before. And these are boundaries that
you've worked on, I'm guessing because it's something that
doesn't happen overnight and your boundaries keep getting
stronger and stronger and you'renot going to accept anything
else. And you're not, you're not
turning back. You're not looking back on that
old Dave that that old Dave's gone.

(01:16:43):
Yeah, he only exists in photos and and videos and you know,
and, and writings or whatever, but he is not the person that's
sitting in front of you right now.
Right. That old Dave was a beautiful
person to you though. Oh yeah, I want you to know
that. And I will always think about
that Dave fondly. That guy's still my friend too.

(01:17:05):
Yeah, oh, no. And he wasn't a bad person, just
like old Johnny's not a bad person.
We're all we're all works in progress and like, dude, just.
Questionable about me? Well, dude, you're but to me,
for me and you know, our relationship only exists between
me and you. Like I don't I owe you so much

(01:17:28):
just for being there for me. And like, I don't mean like I
owe you anything, you know, likematerial.
I'm just saying like without you, I wouldn't have found it
was you and my buddy and Kevin and and that's it.
Like those are the two people that I was able to talk to about
sobriety that had experience with it.
And I owe you so much for that. Just being there for me.

(01:17:49):
Like that's true friendship. I mean, I can't have brother.
You're a brother. Thank you bud.
No, same here. Same here.
You've also helped me too, because helping somebody that is
a addict drug, an addict or alcoholic helping somebody is it

(01:18:10):
helps me a great deal. That's that's part of my program
is because everything could be about self you.
Know. Like think about other people
first. Yeah, there could be a lot more
of that going around. It would really, really be a
positive thing. And like, dude, your path to
doing what you're doing now, like, I'm so proud of you.
I mean, you're thank you. I remember when you first told

(01:18:32):
me I was like, man, this makes so much sense that you're going
to go into this field because it's especially because you've
had the I, I, I, is it safe to say, like not only your
experience with being an addict,but your experience with music
and touring in that sphere, because it is so prevalent in
that sphere, it's harbored and it's encouraged.

(01:18:55):
I mean, I, I think that's one ofthe things that makes me feel
like you are doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing.
No, thank you, man. I finally feel as if I'm doing
the thing that I should have been doing all along in my life.
Just took me a long time to get there and bridging the gap of

(01:19:20):
what I was doing work wise to starting to work in treatment
was really tricky because it wasalso the first six months of
COVID. So I was trying to, yeah, I was
also, I was getting that bonus money.
So it was hard to get an actual.I was laid off for like 6 months

(01:19:42):
and then I got a supervisor to become a licensed alcohol and
drug counselor and I had to start getting job hours.
So she was trying to pressure meinto getting a job.
And I'm like, man, I'm making all this money.
Not working like this is kind ofnice, you know?
And also not dying is cool because I was still afraid of
getting it and being around a lot of people.

(01:20:04):
And then an opportunity presented itself to where I was
in a supervision session with her.
And she goes, we had really haveto get you getting job hours
because I needed 6000 job hours even.
To. To remotely come close to
getting this certificate. So I was like, OK, Nan, you're

(01:20:24):
right. And she goes, there's this place
that's hiring. It's 10 minutes from your house.
It's called recovery Unplugged. They also do music therapy.
It would be perfect for you. And she goes, bring your, bring
your resume and go knock on the front door.
And so that was my assignment atat the end of our supervision
hour, I'm like, OK, I'll, I'll see you later.

(01:20:45):
And I went over to recovery unplugged and, and rang the
doorbell and handed my resume And I got a interview 2 weeks
later. There's a little bit more to the
story, but got an interview and I started working just from the
ground up. I was a behavioral health
technician, which is a fancy term for somebody that just does

(01:21:06):
rounds and make sure people don't die and that people aren't
messing around or getting drugs in and that kind of thing.
And then I, I became an alumni coordinator and then I became an
alumni manager and then I becamea virtual services alumni
manager. And then I started working in
business development the last three years.

(01:21:28):
So it's just been, it's been such a wild ride and I wonder
where it's going to take me. That's the fun of it, right?
Isn't that the, the, the fun is not knowing.
I, I think about the same thing for myself.
You know, I mean shit, not, not to change the subject, but last
year I went to Japan for three weeks and that trip was
completely paid for by my trip. Like I brought home 4 suitcases

(01:21:51):
of of books and I sold everything and like yeah my job
take took me to and I'm going back this year for a month.
So Oh my gosh, man. So is it going to be the same
kind of deal where you can bringsuitcases and make the trip pay
for itself? Yep, that's the goal.
And, you know, I, I've get to experience this entire beautiful

(01:22:13):
culture that I never thought I'd, you know, get to experience
at such length. So and you were also in a in a
Curb Your Enthusiasm episode. A Curb Your Enthusiasm episode,
a book about the NHL, and a music video for Frightened
Rabbit. I'm good, I'm good.
The the frightened rabbit thing was super fucking cool.

(01:22:36):
Yeah, yeah. You know, I miss, I miss Scott
so fucking much. And, you know, that's a whole
other part of my life that you know will be with me till I'm no
longer here, you know? But it's, it's part of your
legacy and I think Scott is smiling down upon you and, and
so happy for these healthy mental and physical changes that

(01:22:59):
you've bestowed upon yourself. Yeah, I mean, we talked about
sobriety a bunch in the last couple years of his life, and he
had gotten sober a couple times.And, you know, depression is a
different story. You know, that's a whole other,
you know, world to, to, to existwith.
But you know, without him, I wouldn't have experienced

(01:23:20):
Scotland, which, you know, I've been there four times.
And, you know, it's kind of likethis overlying theme that we've
been talking about. It's like you open your world up
and you just kind of follow along with what these doors open
that you open with and that you open by making choices.

(01:23:41):
And sometimes they're terrible choices and you just hope that
you can get through those terrible choices to make the
good choices. Right, right.
Make the right choice. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think
unless there's something else, Ifeel bad we didn't talk about
Limbeck, but we can do that someother time.

(01:24:01):
Sorry Limbeck fans, but I think this is a great place to end it
with with my buddy John. Yeah, perfect.
And do you mind if I leave you with a couple of things here?
Please yes. So just to touch on the Limbeck
thing, we are slowly chipping away at a new album.
I mean, it's like a snail's pace.

(01:24:22):
And we did release A7 Inch with two new songs from it.
And we're actually going to do really nice sounding versions of
those songs and put them on streaming soon, however long
that takes, because we're all sobusy and there's seven kids
between the four of us that we're taking care care of.
So that that's exciting. And then I have a podcast in my

(01:24:45):
work that I started just recently and we're a couple
episodes in and it's called Breaking Down Addiction.
I'll. Throw the links in the
description. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Yeah, we, we've aired 1 episode
and the second one is coming up soon.
And it's all stories about experience, strength and hope
surrounding recovery, whether it's substance use disorder or

(01:25:08):
mental health issues. So it's going to be really
exciting. And I, I hope to maybe like
maybe if you're in Nashville sometime, we love to do in
person interviews. So I'd love to get you on the
pod if you ever in Nashville sometime.
I mean, I haven't been in a longtime and I have people to visit
there you and and and meet your,your kid and your wife too.

(01:25:29):
Yes. And to have you on the podcast,
yeah, that'd be also great. That would perfect anything
else, anything else to plug, Anything else we we want to let
the world know about. No shows coming up.
Life is great. My my baby is going to be 22
months old soon so her second birthday is coming up November

(01:25:54):
9th which is wild. My wife and I have our year
wedding anniversary coming up October 2nd.
We got a couple vacations comingup.
Thank you. And that's, that is all great,
but I just want to tell everybody be kind to yourself
and be good to others that especially the people that you
don't understand. Words to live by.

(01:26:15):
And John, this has been great. I mean, you know me and you
could have talked for five straight hours, but we'll cut it
here. Everybody check out the podcast.
I'll have the links in the description below.
Go back and take a look at some old, you know, good Lane Records
and and John, thank you so much,my brother.

(01:26:38):
Thank you, Dave. Appreciate you bro Love you.
Love you. Thanks for watching and
listening to my chat with Johnnyand thank you to Johnny for his
time. I will.
I'm sure we'll do that again in the future.
I, I like to continue a conversation with somebody that
I'm friends with. Even if I was an enemy, I'd
still like to continue the conversation.
It just might get heated. And thank you to you for

(01:26:58):
watching. You can check out Goodland
Records website and find some ofthe bands that he's worked with
on obviously all the major streaming services.
Keep your eye on Limbeck for whenever they release a new
album and probably play some shows.
And the links for Johnny's podcast is in the description
below. So check that out.
Maybe one day I'll be on there. Don't forget to check out the

(01:27:20):
Patreon. I would love to see you come
over there and be a part of thatcommunity.
You get an extra episode and extra content and all that good
stuff from both of my channels over there.
And if you haven't rated or reviewed this podcast on any of
the platforms that you can on, I'd appreciate it.
Spotify or Apple or drop a comment on YouTube or drop a

(01:27:40):
comment on Spotify. Any interaction with you, my
listener, with me, that whole thing with the numbers, the
ones, the zeros, the algorithms,it really does help.
It helps bring it to new people.And more new people we get, the
happier the society it'll be. Because there's no fascism here.
None at all. All right, enjoy the rest of

(01:28:00):
your week. My name is Dave.
This is DIRECT Edition. See you later.

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