July 28, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, Mat Sorensen is joined by Jamison Manwaring, CEO and Co-Founder of Neighborhood Ventures, for a deep dive into the intersection of alternative investing, real estate innovation, and how everyday investors can participate in projects traditionally reserved for institutional capital.
Jamison shares how Neighborhood Ventures became Arizona’s first public real estate crowdfunding platform, structured under Regulation A, and how it enables unaccredited investors to access professionally managed real estate opportunities with low minimums and consistent returns. Mat and Jamison also unpack the regulatory structure that allows these offerings, discuss the due diligence process behind each deal, and explain why real estate continues to serve as a cornerstone asset in many self-directed IRA portfolios.
Whether you're a seasoned investor or just exploring real estate crowdfunding for the first time, this conversation offers actionable insights into building passive income with transparency, regulatory compliance, and community impact in mind.
Chapters
- 00:00 - Buy Low, Sell High Strategy Intro
- 01:36 - Market Cycles and Current Challenges
- 04:50 - Anatomy of a Distressed Deal
- 09:00 - The 7 O'Clock Investment Strategy
- 13:16- Phoenix Market Indicators and Outlook
- 17:00 - Fundraising for Distressed Properties
- 20:36 - Patience and Network Building Payoff
- 24:22 - The Get Rich Slow Philosophy
Neighborhood Ventures Homepage
Directed IRA Homepage: https://directedira.com/
Directed IRA Explore (Linktree): https://linktr.ee/SelfDirectedIRA
Book a Call: https://directedira.com/appointment/
Other:
Mat Sorensen: https://matsorensen.com & https://linktr.ee/MatSorensen
KKOS: https://kkoslawyers.com
Main Street Business https://mainstreetbusiness.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, joinedin studio by the great and
powerful Jameson Manring.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Great intro.
I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You know, I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it.
So we're here to talk aboutinvesting and kind of the tried
and true strategy of buying lowand selling high.
And we're calling this a casestudy because Jameson's got a
deal they're doing right now.
He and I've been talking aboutit.
I'm like this is good to talkabout on the podcast because out
in the real estate space Ithink particularly recently, it
(00:39):
seems like a little flat Peoplelike are there deals out there?
So I want to dig into what youguys are up to right now.
So why don't you kind of firstI mean comment on that buy low,
sell high?
You know, easier said than donemaybe, but let me get your
thoughts on that and then we canget into the case study here.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, you know, when people are talking at the at the
water cooler, about how realestate is hot and where I heard
my friend sold their house andthey made all this money or
they're buying some land,they're in this land deal is
probably not the time to investin real estate.
The folks who are doing well inthose periods are the folks who
(01:20):
had bought prior to that, inthe prior cycle.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
They're realizing their gains now, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So, if you think of just the last five years, when
interest rates went way down,you could sell your buildings
for top dollar.
The folks who are selling inthat cycle that's the smart
money.
They had bought propertiesbeginning in 2010, held them,
ran them well and they saw theopportunity and they sold Groups
(01:50):
who were very aggressive aboutbuying in 2021, 22, 23,.
They were buying at the higherend of the cycle.
I don't want to own thoseportfolios right now.
We know groups that got veryaggressive in those periods
because interest rates were low.
Let's buy.
Things look good.
There was a lot of hype andthere's a lot of hurt in that
(02:13):
group today.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, but you are buying right now.
I know you bought a distresseddeal just a few months ago and
you have another one comingthrough right now.
So, like just from the investormindset, right now is now a
time where you can buy low.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It absolutely is.
Now is a bad time to sell.
So if you are an operator andyou're able to get through this
period, you want to hold yourproperties, focus on operations,
try to get some cashflow, andthere's a few reasons.
Want to hold your properties.
Focus on operations, try to getsome cash flow.
And there's a few reasons.
Debt is still high relative towhere we were and it's high
relative to even where the Fedthinks rates should be.
(02:52):
The Fed is still saying we'rein a restrictive rate
environment, so rates are stillhigh to combat inflation.
Operations are tough becausewe've had a ton of new supply in
the last three years.
In our case in Phoenix, we'reeither one or two of the last
(03:15):
three years in new apartmentsconstructed and new supply has a
big impact on rents.
It has an impact on concessionsand your tenant quality, and so
there's some challenges in themarket right now.
The folks who are operatingwell and they have good teams in
place.
They're doing just fine.
In our case, our buildings arefull, we're cash flowing, so
(03:37):
we're paying all our expenses.
In some cases we have severalbuildings that are still paying
out dividends to investors.
But we also see the next fewyears as the supply gets
absorbed, and it is in marketslike Phoenix.
It's getting absorbed.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Because they're not starting builds right now?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
They were a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
This is stuff coming off the conveyor belt now that
started three, four years agoand now it's getting delivered.
It's getting leased up, andthat's what's been happening the
last couple of years, and sorents have been flat to slightly
down.
But as we look out at theforecast because these new
building projects, these takeyears to plan we're seeing a
(04:18):
drop off a cliff, beginninglater part of this year and then
going forward for several yearswith new construction.
So supply is going to dry up,the supply is already being
absorbed, and so that's whenwe'll start seeing rent growth
and at the same time, weprobably will see relief in
interest rates.
So we think the forecast andthe fundamentals are very good.
(04:42):
Our buildings are full.
We really focus on operationsand the people who are needing
to sell.
They're needing to sell.
In this case that we'll talkabout today, it's a for-sell
situation where the loan was atemporary loan a few years.
They're not able to refinanceit because their debt amount's
too much.
(05:03):
They're not cash-flowing theproperty.
They weren't.
They're not able to refinanceit because their debt amounts
too much.
They're not cash flowing theproperty.
So the bank basically says ifyou don't sell and pay us off,
we're going to, we're going toforeclose, and so that's.
That's the deal that we'regoing to talk about today.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, so let's dig into that deal.
This is 78 units, it's inPhoenix, um, and you said you've
been following this for a while.
Like these deals don't just allof a sudden pop up and it's
like on the MLS.
I mean, like, give me the storyabout this.
You said you've been followingit for over a year.
You've just been waiting forthe shoe to drop, type thing or
like the axe to fall?
(05:34):
I don't know what the analogyhere is.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
People realize that we're in a short-term pullback
and so groups are trying to workthings out with lenders.
They're not just handing thekeys back to lenders.
And last year they put this outfor offers.
We put an offer in and thenthey ended up working something
(06:00):
out with a lender to get themanother period of time.
They had to do a principalreduction, so he raised a little
bit more money, put it into thelender and then, uh, here a
year later, they, they still arenot in a position to make it
work.
And um, we at the time lastyear we did an inspection, we
really liked the building.
(06:20):
We, we know the area reallywell.
It's right up from our thestreet, from our office.
We, the same group that webought our 52nd street deal in
foreclosure this is the samegroup, that was the that had
owned that deal as well.
Okay, and so we know the thesome of the work that they had
done, you know and they're no,no folly operator they just kind
(06:43):
of got in at the wrong time.
They weren't able to executetheir plan, they didn't do some
of the renovations they expected, and so when the opportunity
came back up, we looked at itwith fresh eyes.
We said, hey, things haveprobably changed, let's look at
it again.
But we were able to make a goodoffer and move this year.
(07:07):
But we've been looking at itfor over a year.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So how do you know that you're buying low right now
?
Like, give me the numbers youknow, I mean seriously like
right, you want to know that I'mnot buying at the top of the
market, that I'm getting a deal.
You know, I mean multifamilymight be a little more simple,
because I mean I shouldn't saysimple, but you know you're
running probably like thecashflow on the property, but
(07:31):
compared to, like you know whatthey did on the property and
where you're at right now andwhat you can acquire it for, I
mean, are you getting a discounton this?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Like yeah, uh, we believe we're buying it at an
attractive entry point.
The reason is because we cancash flow with this new entry
point, this new purchase price,with the current rent that's
being generated, even thoughit's not being ran well, at an
(08:01):
initial loan of $8 million.
The prior group had a$12-something million loan on it
.
They weren't able to cash flowit, so our debt gets reduced
significantly from what they hadand that's a 25% difference in
debt 25% difference and thenwe're also bringing in a really
strong operations team.
We've been able to do this inthe past where we bring in our
(08:22):
own team and we see immediateimprovements.
The group that owned it.
They didn't have their own team, they were outsourcing
everything.
They were out-of-state type ofowners and it's a little
different when you own it.
I had heard this example by aWall Street veteran when I was
in New York.
He said it's impossible to timethe market perfectly and buy
(08:43):
low, sell high perfectly.
But if you can think of an oldanalog clock where the six is at
the bottom and the 12 is at thetop and you have the minute
hand going around, he said youcan do really well if you don't
have to buy necessarily the six,but if you can start buying at
the seven or eight.
That's when you start seeingthings are moving in the right
(09:03):
direction.
And so some of the things I'dpoint out right now is we're
seeing a drop off in supply andwe're seeing positive things
when it comes to occupancy andrent.
We are also seeing positivethings for interest rates.
So you start to see thatmovement and that's what we're
looking for.
So maybe that's the 7 or 8.
It's not the near bottom andthen you want to sell.
(09:25):
You don't have to sell at the12.
Maybe you can sell at the 10 or11.
And he said you know you can doreally well if you just do that
throughout your life.
You don't have to be perfect ineither scenario, and I like
that analogy because it meansyou don't have to be perfect.
You just have to see thosethings that are forward-looking
and then you know what you wantto sell it.
You don't need to sell it atthe top of the market.
(09:46):
You made a good profit andthat's how we look at these
deals.
These are three-year deals forus.
Once we hit an amount thatwe've already a hurdle rate
internally, we're going to sellit.
We don't have to hold thisthing forever.
Once we've hit our profit andthat's around the 10 or 11 on
the minute hand- yeah, I lovethat analogy.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
That's a great analogy because, if you think
about it, it's hard to know whenyou're at the six, how long are
you there for.
Think about it, it's hard toknow when you're at the six, how
long are you there for?
I mean, the six could bestopped dead and it's the bottom
, bottom, bottom.
But you do see signals of whenit is start moving.
You're going to see there'sother economic signals, there's
other indicators, things youcould look at, whatever asset
you're looking at of oh, this isstarting to come back and
(10:28):
knowing this is the time to actand so you can then make a
decision versus like I'm buyingat the absolute bottom before I
see anything come back because Ineed to get the best deal
possible.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And what we really look at is our existing units,
because we own a lot of unitsseveral hundred in the same
market and we've already startedto see good signs where lease
up is a little quicker, tenantquality is a little better,
we've been able to push therents a little bit and we've got
good response on that.
Once I start seeing that, thenI get confidence that our team
(11:00):
can execute on this plan.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I was just
going to ask that question.
It's like what are the thingsto be looking for?
Because you know, I mean WallStreet's doing this every minute
, right, like what's the nextindicator, what's the next thing
that's going to show me wherethe market's going tomorrow, let
alone in a month or a year.
Right, they're just like sofocused on those, like those
leading indicators to make adecision on, and you have your
own internal things.
(11:23):
I mean real estate's localright, I mean it's it what's
going on in another market,another state or city is
different, but you're likeinvested in the market, have
properties around it, and you'reusing those indicators to
inform you.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I was just going to go there because each market.
I don't know what's going onacross the country, but I can
talk about Phoenix.
We've had this huge investmentat TSMC in North Phoenix $100
billion investment Trumpadministration's one of the
biggest wins of theadministration so far.
It started with $40 billion,then it went to $70 billion, now
(11:57):
it's $100 billion.
I think they actually announcedanother chunk.
And not only are we going tosee high-paying jobs for TSMC
there for we're not talking 10years, we're talking for
multiple decades but also theirsuppliers.
It's kind of like the ecosystemin Detroit when the auto
(12:18):
manufacturers were what madeAmerica great.
Then all of these suppliers inOhio and across that area just
drove that economy.
And we're already starting tosee their suppliers Now.
They want to be close to TSMC,they want to.
And so new companies announcingseveral thousand people that
they're hiring here.
That's just almost one exampleof what's happening here.
(12:42):
But the growth in Phoenixcontinues and we have quite a
bit of confidence in themigration growth.
But we're also seeing wagegrowth.
We're seeing, you know, kind oflargely historical construction
jobs here that were more bluecollar.
We're seeing starting to seehigher end, higher, higher
(13:03):
income jobs move here.
So we have a lot of tailwindsin the Phoenix market that we
don't see signs slowing downaround that in the Phoenix
market that we don't see signsslowing down around that.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
What have you seen like outside multifamily, at
least in Phoenix, and I knoweverybody's market is different,
but it's just good to like pickup on some of the things that
you're seeing.
Like someone out there in thesingle family market is
multifamily.
I mean, I know every assetclass is different, even across
real estate, from multifamilywhat's going on in office or
single family.
I mean, what are you guysseeing on the single family
front?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
We follow the single family uh vertical pretty
closely because it does impactuh rentals and multifamily and
it's held up pretty pretty wellthrough the higher interest
rates in our in the Phoenixmarket.
But we are starting to see somedistress from some of the
speculators, the builders.
(13:56):
They have deeper resources soif they've started a project
they can pull back and they canmake that work.
Some of those are publiccompanies and that's part of
their business.
But right now we have morelistings on the MLS in Phoenix
than we've had pre-COVID closeto 30,000.
That's healthy, that's good fora buyer because we typically
(14:21):
you're used to seeing that in abuyer at Buyer's Market in
Phoenix.
So we're around that range.
Homes are staying on therelonger than normal and we
started seeing distress frommultifamily about 18 months ago
and we started seeing thewriting on the wall.
I'm starting to see now somesingle family stuff, some of
those really early risk takers.
(14:43):
One example a group that hadbought five houses to flip and
renovate went into BK.
Houses to flip and renovatewent into BK.
They've handed those homes backto the bank.
You didn't see that for youhaven't seen that for a while in
(15:06):
Arizona and starting to seesome of those things.
I don't think that there'll beanything near what the GFC when
it comes to single family, but Ido think there's going to be
some opportunities out there.
Because interest rates arehigher than normal, costs to
renovate are also elevated.
They've continued to go up andthey don't have an exit.
They can't just put a home onthe market and sell it in a
shorter period of time, and sosome of them start to see the
(15:29):
writing on the wall, and in thiscase, they're just giving those
homes back.
So I do think, if you're abuyer, you know if you're, if
you're, you can be opportunistic.
There's going to be someopportunities there.
I don't know how, how you knowdeep that will be.
I just think, though, that I'malready seeing some.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, um.
Well, let's come back on thisdeal that you're doing right now
.
This is the one in Phoenix 78units.
You guys raise capital on thesedeals.
It's not meant to be anendorsement or anything.
I have invested in neighborhoodventures deals.
I own shares there and, likeI've invested in your REIT, I've
invested in some of your otherfunds, and you have other
offerings from the REIT tospecific funds.
(16:07):
This one's in a, and youactually have a specifically
targeted distressed fund though.
Yeah, is that what this one'sin?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, and this is our fourth asset in our distressed
fund and you can invest in thefund.
We also have the ability toinvest in this deal directly.
Some people would rather investin one asset versus a fund.
Fund gives you somediversification in the portfolio
(16:34):
.
Asset versus a fund.
Fund gives you somediversification in the portfolio
, but this asset is it's alittle smaller raise, so we're
raising about three and a halfmillion.
We have a few share classesthat we are raising so people
can invest in it and get a 12%preferred return in it, or they,
if they invest a little bitmore, they, they can get some of
the upside.
(16:54):
So we, we, um, we startedfundraising last week.
We're almost fully allocated.
So it's been um, uh, this hasbeen one of our busiest years.
You know, we pulled back in 22and 23 because we saw that the,
the, the numbers, the, theunderwriting wasn't making sense
(17:15):
with where interest rates were.
So we started pulling back andnow Some good discipline.
Yeah, we got a little bit luckyin some ways, just because we
said this isn't making sense,let's just pause, and that took
a little bit of discipline andsome hard conversations, but
we've had our most active yearsince uh, you know, 2021, this
(17:36):
year, this is, this is our thirddeal of the year.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And I know at least two of them.
I don't know if all three ofthem I, but I know two of them
have been distressed deals.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
All of them are distressed, all three of them,
the only thing you're buyingright now is distress.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
The only thing we either.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah yeah, that's all we're doing right now, because
that's what makes sense todayand there aren't that many
buyers out there.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So, on this deal, um, there were a few other groups,
um, but uh, this is anopportunity for us and we're not
thinking we're going to make aquick buck and sell this in six
months.
We want to get in there,operate it.
We're going to renovate theproperty, we're going to put in
new appliances, we're going todo all the right things.
We're going to get rents to therest of the market, yeah, and
(18:19):
then we let the market take careof itself.
We'll sell the building whenit's ready, but we're only
buying distress deals.
We hope to get a few more thisyear too.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Interesting, okay, only buying distress.
So you're not even looking atanything else.
Like you're like there's justnothing worth buying unless you
can get it to stress, like rightnow in the rate environment and
kind of where rents are at,like you have to buy distress to
make it work.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Because sellers are not selling non-distress
buildings right now, if they-.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
They're trying to weather the storm.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, and we're not selling anything either.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
We're just holding everything tight, running things
Well I know you've talked toyou guys feel like you have some
really good assets and it'slike this is not the time to
sell.
No Like unless you have to sell, you're a fool to sell right
now.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
You want to wait because you want to sell high.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, that's the other end of it.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Right, we've talked about the buy low.
The time to buy low is not thetime to sell.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And and you may get in a situation where you have to
sell.
You know various things theloans coming due, there's a
partnership that's fizzling out.
We're looking at all thosedeals and we see it as an
opportunity right now, but butwe're not selling anything.
Um, we need to get through thecycle.
You know there'll be a time tosell, and that's the beautiful
(19:32):
thing about real estate andabout investing in general as
things, things cycle around,there will definitely be a time
where where we'll be able tosell these assets for where we
want them to be.
And you just have to have thepatience and and uh and know
that um, control what you cancontrol.
That's run things well.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Make good decisions and then we'll wait for the
market to come back.
Awesome, all right.
Any other tips out?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
there for investors.
I don't know, I just want togive you kind of a catch-all
thing, a little catchphrase orsomething I love the six o'clock
thing with the handle.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
See, you did learn something on Wall Street.
There was some valuableinformation working at Goldman
Sachs.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
There's a lot of smart people there, and then it
comes down to a little anecdotelike that that I remember, after
all my time there, and it's allthe modeling and analysis, and
it's a little anecdote.
No, I I I've had conversationswith several investors who
they're having some liquidityevents.
Maybe they're selling abusiness.
They have some investments thathave matured.
(20:32):
I think right now, multifamilyis a great time to invest and
you can tell when you look atour numbers of what we're buying
this at and where the rents aregoing to be as we do our work
on it.
It's a good time to put moneyin this asset.
So, going all the way back tothe beginning, you know the
water cooler conversations of 22and 23,.
(20:54):
Hey, things are hot real estate, let's buy.
I think now is the time to gobuy those assets and in, in, uh,
the, the.
The next water coolerconversations that's when you'll
be selling those, but now isthe time to go acquire them.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Awesome, okay, well, thanks so much.
Neighborhood Ventures.
The website isneighborhoodventures.
You can learn more there.
Um, and thanks James for comingin talking about this.
I think that you know investingis tough and a lot of you know
our people who have accountshere myself clients I talked to
(21:30):
on our law firm right, somepeople are trying to time the
market but also just find theright deals and buying
opportunities and there's somuch noise going on out there,
you know, with what's happenedwith rates and the economy and I
think a good kind of look atthis again and talk about buying
low and selling high.
I just want to keep it simpletoday and try and do a case
study, because I think it comesdown to every individual deal.
(21:52):
Like, what do I look for rightnow?
How do I know it's a good deal?
I know you guys ran your numberson this, but it's just
interesting to me that, like,you guys are only buying
distress right now and sometimesI think if you're an investor,
you do need to wait.
Maybe, like, if you don't havedistressed opportunity like,
let's say me, I don't havedistressed opportunity deals I
(22:13):
can find I guess I can invest inyour deal, but like, I think
sometimes as an investor, youmight need to be patient or get
active in finding those distressdeals, which for you guys has
been about building a network.
And maybe actually let me askthat as a last question, here is
any advice for people and like,how have you guys gotten the
position where you got those?
You know now three distressdeals in the last year.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, I think if, if you're in that position right
now, it may be the time for youto build your network.
Do your homework, figure outwhat your strategy will be, you
know, for next year, for 2026.
Um, if you're a real estateinvestor, what are the markets
that are interesting and startfollowing those markets?
Start finding your niche Causewe've been doing this for eight
(22:57):
years, so we have the rightbroker relationships.
My business partner has beenhere for 40 years.
He knows all the sellers in thein this in the market, and we
started putting this strategy uhto uh together about 18 months
ago and now we're executing onit this year.
So you know you use those gapsto.
(23:17):
You know, sharpen the saw,figure out what your strategy
might be.
And it's a great time if youhave money on the sidelines,
that's a great time to go figureout what you want to do with it
and not be in a hurry.
That's that's, you know, aformula for disaster.
But when you can be slow aboutit and use that time to to fine
(23:37):
tune your strategy, then you'llbe ready when you're, when the
deal comes up.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was.
Who was it?
I think Jeff Bezos wasinterviewing Warren Buffett and
Warren Buffett was kind ofgiving his investment philosophy
and how to build wealth andBezos summarized it and he's
like it just kind of sounds likeget rich slow really is what
you're saying.
And he's like how comeeveryone's not doing it?
(24:03):
And he's like that's the thingEverybody wants to get rich fast
, that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I remember that interview and John and I my
partner for the first four yearsof our business we made $0.
We put a lot of money and workin and we made $0, even though
our business was doing well.
Then we went into COVID, thenwe went into this cycle.
So we've been very patient, youknow, for eight years, and
that's the name of the game.
(24:28):
But we enjoy it.
We enjoy the grind, we enjoythe, the, the opportunity to
figure figure out what.
What will our, our strategy be?
But you have to be patient andand and I think Warren Buffett
said yeah, most people justdon't want to be so, yeah,
they're just impatient, and that, uh, and I think Warren Buffett
said yeah, most people justdon't want to be so.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, they're just impatient and that's.
You know, that's when you makebad decisions.
So cause I mean, sometimes, uh,a good investment is the one
you don't make?
Oh, absolutely, it's the one youdon't make and you take the
patience to wait right and buyright.
So, um well, thanks so much forcoming in again.
I for coming in again.
I appreciate all the time.
Neighborhood Venture is whereyou can learn more about Jameson
, what they're up to not meantto be an endorsement and, again,
I have invested in some oftheir stuff before but we just
(25:09):
want to get in experts here totalk about this, get some
insights to maybe do whatJameson's doing.
I know you've talked about thesingle family market Also.
They do have some investmentofferings if you do want to look
at that.
So thanks everybody for beinghere.
We will see you next time.
Until then, stay calm.
Self-direct on.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
And thank you everyone for listening.
A quick disclaimer and reminderthis presentation does not
constitute an attorney or CPAclient relationship and it is
always in your best interest toconsult competent legal and tax
professionals when conductingyour own personal transactions.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
We also want to make sure you know this is not
investment advice or financialadvice.
We're just trying to give youeducation, ideas and strategies
you can take to yourprofessionals or conduct your
own research on.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, joinedin studio by the great and
powerful Jameson Manring.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Great intro.
I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You know, I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it.
So we're here to talk aboutinvesting and kind of the tried
and true strategy of buying lowand selling high.
And we're calling this a casestudy because Jameson's got a
deal they're doing right now.
He and I've been talking aboutit.
I'm like this is good to talkabout on the podcast because out
in the real estate space Ithink particularly recently, it
(00:39):
seems like a little flat Peoplelike are there deals out there?
So I want to dig into what youguys are up to right now.
So why don't you kind of firstI mean comment on that buy low,
sell high?
You know, easier said than donemaybe, but let me get your
thoughts on that and then we canget into the case study here.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, you know, when people are talking at the at the
water cooler, about how realestate is hot and where I heard
my friend sold their house andthey made all this money or
they're buying some land,they're in this land deal is
probably not the time to investin real estate.
The folks who are doing well inthose periods are the folks who
(01:20):
had bought prior to that, inthe prior cycle.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
They're realizing their gains now, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So, if you think of just the last five years, when
interest rates went way down,you could sell your buildings
for top dollar.
The folks who are selling inthat cycle that's the smart
money.
They had bought propertiesbeginning in 2010, held them,
ran them well and they saw theopportunity and they sold Groups
(01:50):
who were very aggressive aboutbuying in 2021, 22, 23,.
They were buying at the higherend of the cycle.
I don't want to own thoseportfolios right now.
We know groups that got veryaggressive in those periods
because interest rates were low.
Let's buy.
Things look good.
There was a lot of hype andthere's a lot of hurt in that
(02:13):
group today.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, but you are buying right now.
I know you bought a distresseddeal just a few months ago and
you have another one comingthrough right now.
So, like just from the investormindset, right now is now a
time where you can buy low.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It absolutely is.
Now is a bad time to sell.
So if you are an operator andyou're able to get through this
period, you want to hold yourproperties, focus on operations,
try to get some cashflow, andthere's a few reasons.
Want to hold your properties.
Focus on operations, try to getsome cash flow.
And there's a few reasons.
Debt is still high relative towhere we were and it's high
relative to even where the Fedthinks rates should be.
(02:52):
The Fed is still saying we'rein a restrictive rate
environment, so rates are stillhigh to combat inflation.
Operations are tough becausewe've had a ton of new supply in
the last three years.
In our case in Phoenix, we'reeither one or two of the last
(03:15):
three years in new apartmentsconstructed and new supply has a
big impact on rents.
It has an impact on concessionsand your tenant quality, and so
there's some challenges in themarket right now.
The folks who are operatingwell and they have good teams in
place.
They're doing just fine.
In our case, our buildings arefull, we're cash flowing, so
(03:37):
we're paying all our expenses.
In some cases we have severalbuildings that are still paying
out dividends to investors.
But we also see the next fewyears as the supply gets
absorbed, and it is in marketslike Phoenix.
It's getting absorbed.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Because they're not starting builds right now?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
They were a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
This is stuff coming off the conveyor belt now that
started three, four years agoand now it's getting delivered.
It's getting leased up, andthat's what's been happening the
last couple of years, and sorents have been flat to slightly
down.
But as we look out at theforecast because these new
building projects, these takeyears to plan we're seeing a
(04:18):
drop off a cliff, beginninglater part of this year and then
going forward for several yearswith new construction.
So supply is going to dry up,the supply is already being
absorbed, and so that's whenwe'll start seeing rent growth
and at the same time, weprobably will see relief in
interest rates.
So we think the forecast andthe fundamentals are very good.
(04:42):
Our buildings are full.
We really focus on operationsand the people who are needing
to sell.
They're needing to sell.
In this case that we'll talkabout today, it's a for-sell
situation where the loan was atemporary loan a few years.
They're not able to refinanceit because their debt amount's
too much.
(05:03):
They're not cash-flowing theproperty.
They weren't.
They're not able to refinanceit because their debt amounts
too much.
They're not cash flowing theproperty.
So the bank basically says ifyou don't sell and pay us off,
we're going to, we're going toforeclose, and so that's.
That's the deal that we'regoing to talk about today.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, so let's dig into that deal.
This is 78 units, it's inPhoenix, um, and you said you've
been following this for a while.
Like these deals don't just allof a sudden pop up and it's
like on the MLS.
I mean, like, give me the storyabout this.
You said you've been followingit for over a year.
You've just been waiting forthe shoe to drop, type thing or
like the axe to fall?
(05:34):
I don't know what the analogyhere is.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
People realize that we're in a short-term pullback
and so groups are trying to workthings out with lenders.
They're not just handing thekeys back to lenders.
And last year they put this outfor offers.
We put an offer in and thenthey ended up working something
(06:00):
out with a lender to get themanother period of time.
They had to do a principalreduction, so he raised a little
bit more money, put it into thelender and then, uh, here a
year later, they, they still arenot in a position to make it
work.
And um, we at the time lastyear we did an inspection, we
really liked the building.
(06:20):
We, we know the area reallywell.
It's right up from our thestreet, from our office.
We, the same group that webought our 52nd street deal in
foreclosure this is the samegroup, that was the that had
owned that deal as well.
Okay, and so we know the thesome of the work that they had
done, you know and they're no,no folly operator they just kind
(06:43):
of got in at the wrong time.
They weren't able to executetheir plan, they didn't do some
of the renovations they expected, and so when the opportunity
came back up, we looked at itwith fresh eyes.
We said, hey, things haveprobably changed, let's look at
it again.
But we were able to make a goodoffer and move this year.
(07:07):
But we've been looking at itfor over a year.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So how do you know that you're buying low right now
?
Like, give me the numbers youknow, I mean seriously like
right, you want to know that I'mnot buying at the top of the
market, that I'm getting a deal.
You know, I mean multifamilymight be a little more simple,
because I mean I shouldn't saysimple, but you know you're
running probably like thecashflow on the property, but
(07:31):
compared to, like you know whatthey did on the property and
where you're at right now andwhat you can acquire it for, I
mean, are you getting a discounton this?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Like yeah, uh, we believe we're buying it at an
attractive entry point.
The reason is because we cancash flow with this new entry
point, this new purchase price,with the current rent that's
being generated, even thoughit's not being ran well, at an
(08:01):
initial loan of $8 million.
The prior group had a$12-something million loan on it
.
They weren't able to cash flowit, so our debt gets reduced
significantly from what they hadand that's a 25% difference in
debt 25% difference and thenwe're also bringing in a really
strong operations team.
We've been able to do this inthe past where we bring in our
(08:22):
own team and we see immediateimprovements.
The group that owned it.
They didn't have their own team, they were outsourcing
everything.
They were out-of-state type ofowners and it's a little
different when you own it.
I had heard this example by aWall Street veteran when I was
in New York.
He said it's impossible to timethe market perfectly and buy
(08:43):
low, sell high perfectly.
But if you can think of an oldanalog clock where the six is at
the bottom and the 12 is at thetop and you have the minute
hand going around, he said youcan do really well if you don't
have to buy necessarily the six,but if you can start buying at
the seven or eight.
That's when you start seeingthings are moving in the right
(09:03):
direction.
And so some of the things I'dpoint out right now is we're
seeing a drop off in supply andwe're seeing positive things
when it comes to occupancy andrent.
We are also seeing positivethings for interest rates.
So you start to see thatmovement and that's what we're
looking for.
So maybe that's the 7 or 8.
It's not the near bottom andthen you want to sell.
(09:25):
You don't have to sell at the12.
Maybe you can sell at the 10 or11.
And he said you know you can doreally well if you just do that
throughout your life.
You don't have to be perfect ineither scenario, and I like
that analogy because it meansyou don't have to be perfect.
You just have to see thosethings that are forward-looking
and then you know what you wantto sell it.
You don't need to sell it atthe top of the market.
(09:46):
You made a good profit andthat's how we look at these
deals.
These are three-year deals forus.
Once we hit an amount thatwe've already a hurdle rate
internally, we're going to sellit.
We don't have to hold thisthing forever.
Once we've hit our profit andthat's around the 10 or 11 on
the minute hand- yeah, I lovethat analogy.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
That's a great analogy because, if you think
about it, it's hard to know whenyou're at the six, how long are
you there for.
Think about it, it's hard toknow when you're at the six, how
long are you there for?
I mean, the six could bestopped dead and it's the bottom
, bottom, bottom.
But you do see signals of whenit is start moving.
You're going to see there'sother economic signals, there's
other indicators, things youcould look at, whatever asset
you're looking at of oh, this isstarting to come back and
(10:28):
knowing this is the time to actand so you can then make a
decision versus like I'm buyingat the absolute bottom before I
see anything come back because Ineed to get the best deal
possible.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And what we really look at is our existing units,
because we own a lot of unitsseveral hundred in the same
market and we've already startedto see good signs where lease
up is a little quicker, tenantquality is a little better,
we've been able to push therents a little bit and we've got
good response on that.
Once I start seeing that, thenI get confidence that our team
(11:00):
can execute on this plan.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I was just
going to ask that question.
It's like what are the thingsto be looking for?
Because you know, I mean WallStreet's doing this every minute
, right, like what's the nextindicator, what's the next thing
that's going to show me wherethe market's going tomorrow, let
alone in a month or a year.
Right, they're just like sofocused on those, like those
leading indicators to make adecision on, and you have your
own internal things.
(11:23):
I mean real estate's localright, I mean it's it what's
going on in another market,another state or city is
different, but you're likeinvested in the market, have
properties around it, and you'reusing those indicators to
inform you.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I was just going to go there because each market.
I don't know what's going onacross the country, but I can
talk about Phoenix.
We've had this huge investmentat TSMC in North Phoenix $100
billion investment Trumpadministration's one of the
biggest wins of theadministration so far.
It started with $40 billion,then it went to $70 billion, now
(11:57):
it's $100 billion.
I think they actually announcedanother chunk.
And not only are we going tosee high-paying jobs for TSMC
there for we're not talking 10years, we're talking for
multiple decades but also theirsuppliers.
It's kind of like the ecosystemin Detroit when the auto
(12:18):
manufacturers were what madeAmerica great.
Then all of these suppliers inOhio and across that area just
drove that economy.
And we're already starting tosee their suppliers Now.
They want to be close to TSMC,they want to.
And so new companies announcingseveral thousand people that
they're hiring here.
That's just almost one exampleof what's happening here.
(12:42):
But the growth in Phoenixcontinues and we have quite a
bit of confidence in themigration growth.
But we're also seeing wagegrowth.
We're seeing, you know, kind oflargely historical construction
jobs here that were more bluecollar.
We're seeing starting to seehigher end, higher, higher
(13:03):
income jobs move here.
So we have a lot of tailwindsin the Phoenix market that we
don't see signs slowing downaround that in the Phoenix
market that we don't see signsslowing down around that.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
What have you seen like outside multifamily, at
least in Phoenix, and I knoweverybody's market is different,
but it's just good to like pickup on some of the things that
you're seeing.
Like someone out there in thesingle family market is
multifamily.
I mean, I know every assetclass is different, even across
real estate, from multifamilywhat's going on in office or
single family.
I mean, what are you guysseeing on the single family
front?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
We follow the single family uh vertical pretty
closely because it does impactuh rentals and multifamily and
it's held up pretty pretty wellthrough the higher interest
rates in our in the Phoenixmarket.
But we are starting to see somedistress from some of the
speculators, the builders.
(13:56):
They have deeper resources soif they've started a project
they can pull back and they canmake that work.
Some of those are publiccompanies and that's part of
their business.
But right now we have morelistings on the MLS in Phoenix
than we've had pre-COVID closeto 30,000.
That's healthy, that's good fora buyer because we typically
(14:21):
you're used to seeing that in abuyer at Buyer's Market in
Phoenix.
So we're around that range.
Homes are staying on therelonger than normal and we
started seeing distress frommultifamily about 18 months ago
and we started seeing thewriting on the wall.
I'm starting to see now somesingle family stuff, some of
those really early risk takers.
(14:43):
One example a group that hadbought five houses to flip and
renovate went into BK.
Houses to flip and renovatewent into BK.
They've handed those homes backto the bank.
You didn't see that for youhaven't seen that for a while in
(15:06):
Arizona and starting to seesome of those things.
I don't think that there'll beanything near what the GFC when
it comes to single family, but Ido think there's going to be
some opportunities out there.
Because interest rates arehigher than normal, costs to
renovate are also elevated.
They've continued to go up andthey don't have an exit.
They can't just put a home onthe market and sell it in a
shorter period of time, and sosome of them start to see the
(15:29):
writing on the wall, and in thiscase, they're just giving those
homes back.
So I do think, if you're abuyer, you know if you're, if
you're, you can be opportunistic.
There's going to be someopportunities there.
I don't know how, how you knowdeep that will be.
I just think, though, that I'malready seeing some.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, um.
Well, let's come back on thisdeal that you're doing right now
.
This is the one in Phoenix 78units.
You guys raise capital on thesedeals.
It's not meant to be anendorsement or anything.
I have invested in neighborhoodventures deals.
I own shares there and, likeI've invested in your REIT, I've
invested in some of your otherfunds, and you have other
offerings from the REIT tospecific funds.
(16:07):
This one's in a, and youactually have a specifically
targeted distressed fund though.
Yeah, is that what this one'sin?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, and this is our fourth asset in our distressed
fund and you can invest in thefund.
We also have the ability toinvest in this deal directly.
Some people would rather investin one asset versus a fund.
Fund gives you somediversification in the portfolio
(16:34):
.
Asset versus a fund.
Fund gives you somediversification in the portfolio
, but this asset is it's alittle smaller raise, so we're
raising about three and a halfmillion.
We have a few share classesthat we are raising so people
can invest in it and get a 12%preferred return in it, or they,
if they invest a little bitmore, they, they can get some of
the upside.
(16:54):
So we, we, um, we startedfundraising last week.
We're almost fully allocated.
So it's been um, uh, this hasbeen one of our busiest years.
You know, we pulled back in 22and 23 because we saw that the,
the, the numbers, the, theunderwriting wasn't making sense
(17:15):
with where interest rates were.
So we started pulling back andnow Some good discipline.
Yeah, we got a little bit luckyin some ways, just because we
said this isn't making sense,let's just pause, and that took
a little bit of discipline andsome hard conversations, but
we've had our most active yearsince uh, you know, 2021, this
(17:36):
year, this is, this is our thirddeal of the year.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And I know at least two of them.
I don't know if all three ofthem I, but I know two of them
have been distressed deals.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
All of them are distressed, all three of them,
the only thing you're buyingright now is distress.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
The only thing we either.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah yeah, that's all we're doing right now, because
that's what makes sense todayand there aren't that many
buyers out there.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So, on this deal, um, there were a few other groups,
um, but uh, this is anopportunity for us and we're not
thinking we're going to make aquick buck and sell this in six
months.
We want to get in there,operate it.
We're going to renovate theproperty, we're going to put in
new appliances, we're going todo all the right things.
We're going to get rents to therest of the market, yeah, and
(18:19):
then we let the market take careof itself.
We'll sell the building whenit's ready, but we're only
buying distress deals.
We hope to get a few more thisyear too.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Interesting, okay, only buying distress.
So you're not even looking atanything else.
Like you're like there's justnothing worth buying unless you
can get it to stress, like rightnow in the rate environment and
kind of where rents are at,like you have to buy distress to
make it work.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Because sellers are not selling non-distress
buildings right now, if they-.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
They're trying to weather the storm.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, and we're not selling anything either.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
We're just holding everything tight, running things
Well I know you've talked toyou guys feel like you have some
really good assets and it'slike this is not the time to
sell.
No Like unless you have to sell, you're a fool to sell right
now.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
You want to wait because you want to sell high.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, that's the other end of it.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Right, we've talked about the buy low.
The time to buy low is not thetime to sell.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And and you may get in a situation where you have to
sell.
You know various things theloans coming due, there's a
partnership that's fizzling out.
We're looking at all thosedeals and we see it as an
opportunity right now, but butwe're not selling anything.
Um, we need to get through thecycle.
You know there'll be a time tosell, and that's the beautiful
(19:32):
thing about real estate andabout investing in general as
things, things cycle around,there will definitely be a time
where where we'll be able tosell these assets for where we
want them to be.
And you just have to have thepatience and and uh and know
that um, control what you cancontrol.
That's run things well.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Make good decisions and then we'll wait for the
market to come back.
Awesome, all right.
Any other tips out?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
there for investors.
I don't know, I just want togive you kind of a catch-all
thing, a little catchphrase orsomething I love the six o'clock
thing with the handle.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
See, you did learn something on Wall Street.
There was some valuableinformation working at Goldman
Sachs.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
There's a lot of smart people there, and then it
comes down to a little anecdotelike that that I remember, after
all my time there, and it's allthe modeling and analysis, and
it's a little anecdote.
No, I I I've had conversationswith several investors who
they're having some liquidityevents.
Maybe they're selling abusiness.
They have some investments thathave matured.
(20:32):
I think right now, multifamilyis a great time to invest and
you can tell when you look atour numbers of what we're buying
this at and where the rents aregoing to be as we do our work
on it.
It's a good time to put moneyin this asset.
So, going all the way back tothe beginning, you know the
water cooler conversations of 22and 23,.
(20:54):
Hey, things are hot real estate, let's buy.
I think now is the time to gobuy those assets and in, in, uh,
the, the.
The next water coolerconversations that's when you'll
be selling those, but now isthe time to go acquire them.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Awesome, okay, well, thanks so much.
Neighborhood Ventures.
The website isneighborhoodventures.
You can learn more there.
Um, and thanks James for comingin talking about this.
I think that you know investingis tough and a lot of you know
our people who have accountshere myself clients I talked to
(21:30):
on our law firm right, somepeople are trying to time the
market but also just find theright deals and buying
opportunities and there's somuch noise going on out there,
you know, with what's happenedwith rates and the economy and I
think a good kind of look atthis again and talk about buying
low and selling high.
I just want to keep it simpletoday and try and do a case
study, because I think it comesdown to every individual deal.
(21:52):
Like, what do I look for rightnow?
How do I know it's a good deal?
I know you guys ran your numberson this, but it's just
interesting to me that, like,you guys are only buying
distress right now and sometimesI think if you're an investor,
you do need to wait.
Maybe, like, if you don't havedistressed opportunity like,
let's say me, I don't havedistressed opportunity deals I
(22:13):
can find I guess I can invest inyour deal, but like, I think
sometimes as an investor, youmight need to be patient or get
active in finding those distressdeals, which for you guys has
been about building a network.
And maybe actually let me askthat as a last question, here is
any advice for people and like,how have you guys gotten the
position where you got those?
You know now three distressdeals in the last year.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, I think if, if you're in that position right
now, it may be the time for youto build your network.
Do your homework, figure outwhat your strategy will be, you
know, for next year, for 2026.
Um, if you're a real estateinvestor, what are the markets
that are interesting and startfollowing those markets?
Start finding your niche Causewe've been doing this for eight
(22:57):
years, so we have the rightbroker relationships.
My business partner has beenhere for 40 years.
He knows all the sellers in thein this in the market, and we
started putting this strategy uhto uh together about 18 months
ago and now we're executing onit this year.
So you know you use those gapsto.
(23:17):
You know, sharpen the saw,figure out what your strategy
might be.
And it's a great time if youhave money on the sidelines,
that's a great time to go figureout what you want to do with it
and not be in a hurry.
That's that's, you know, aformula for disaster.
But when you can be slow aboutit and use that time to to fine
(23:37):
tune your strategy, then you'llbe ready when you're, when the
deal comes up.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was.
Who was it?
I think Jeff Bezos wasinterviewing Warren Buffett and
Warren Buffett was kind ofgiving his investment philosophy
and how to build wealth andBezos summarized it and he's
like it just kind of sounds likeget rich slow really is what
you're saying.
And he's like how comeeveryone's not doing it?
(24:03):
And he's like that's the thingEverybody wants to get rich fast
, that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I remember that interview and John and I my
partner for the first four yearsof our business we made $0.
We put a lot of money and workin and we made $0, even though
our business was doing well.
Then we went into COVID, thenwe went into this cycle.
So we've been very patient, youknow, for eight years, and
that's the name of the game.
(24:28):
But we enjoy it.
We enjoy the grind, we enjoythe, the, the opportunity to
figure figure out what.
What will our, our strategy be?
But you have to be patient andand and I think Warren Buffett
said yeah, most people justdon't want to be so, yeah,
they're just impatient, and that, uh, and I think Warren Buffett
said yeah, most people justdon't want to be so.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, they're just impatient and that's.
You know, that's when you makebad decisions.
So cause I mean, sometimes, uh,a good investment is the one
you don't make?
Oh, absolutely, it's the one youdon't make and you take the
patience to wait right and buyright.
So, um well, thanks so much forcoming in again.
I for coming in again.
I appreciate all the time.
Neighborhood Venture is whereyou can learn more about Jameson
, what they're up to not meantto be an endorsement and, again,
I have invested in some oftheir stuff before but we just
(25:09):
want to get in experts here totalk about this, get some
insights to maybe do whatJameson's doing.
I know you've talked about thesingle family market Also.
They do have some investmentofferings if you do want to look
at that.
So thanks everybody for beinghere.
We will see you next time.
Until then, stay calm.
Self-direct on.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
And thank you everyone for listening.
A quick disclaimer and reminderthis presentation does not
constitute an attorney or CPAclient relationship and it is
always in your best interest toconsult competent legal and tax
professionals when conductingyour own personal transactions.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
We also want to make sure you know this is not
investment advice or financialadvice.
We're just trying to give youeducation, ideas and strategies
you can take to yourprofessionals or conduct your
own research on.
We'll see you next time.
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