October 8, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode of The Directed IRA Podcast, tax attorneys Matt Sorensen and Mark J. Kohler reveal one of the most powerful strategies for crypto investors, how to grow and withdraw your crypto profits completely tax free using a Crypto Roth IRA.
They break down three key scenarios every crypto holder needs to understand:
Getting started, how to buy crypto in a Roth IRA even if you are new to retirement accounts.
Converting existing IRAs or 401(k)s, how to roll over or convert funds into Roth dollars to start investing in crypto.
High net worth or business owners, how to use Roth Solo 401(k)s, HSAs, and Coverdells to expand your tax free crypto empire.
You will also learn the “No More Taxes on My Crypto Pledge,” why it is never too late to start, and how strategic planning can protect your wealth while maximizing long term gains.
Matt and Mark share real examples from clients, explain the difference between traditional and Roth accounts, and highlight the unique advantages Directed IRA offers for crypto investors, including low fees, easy app based trading, and full IRS compliance.
If you believe in the future of crypto and want to keep every penny of your gains, this episode is your roadmap to doing it the smart, legal, and tax free way.
Chapters:
00:06 - Why a Crypto Roth Exists
02:50 - Three Paths to a Crypto Roth
05:00 - Rolling Over Old IRAs and 401(k)s
07:20 - Converting Traditional to Roth Strategically
08:56 - Solo 401k Power for Business Owners
10:53 - The “No More Taxes” Pledge for New Buys
13:13 - Using Family, HSA, and Coverdell Buckets
16:01 - Costs, Providers, and Getting Help
19:35 - Disclaimers and Final Takeaways
Take the pledge. Stop paying taxes on your crypto. Start building your future tax free with Directed IRA.
Directed IRA Homepage: https://directedira.com/
Directed IRA Explore (Linktree): https://linktr.ee/SelfDirectedIRA
Book a Call: https://directedira.com/appointment/
Other:
Mat Sorensen: https://matsorensen.com & https://linktr.ee/MatSorensen
KKOS: https://kkoslawyers.com
Main Street Business https://mainstreetbusiness.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA podcast.
This is Matt Sornson, joined bythe incredible Mark J.
Kohler.
We're two tax lawyers hereteaching you how to not only
make money in crypto, but keepit all, maybe tax-free?
SPEAKER_00 (00:19):
Yeah, I want it all tax-free.
And we've been debating hard forthe last hour on a whiteboard
trying to bring you acutting-edge tip.
And I think we've got it.
We we I know many of you outthere might have even millions.
I talked to someone today thathad$84 million sitting in
multiple wallets.
It's been a great year for them.
(00:40):
But they're like, how do I getthat crypto into my Roth IRA or
my Roth 401k?
Because over there I don't paytax, but I build up all this
wealth in a crypto wallet that Iown personally.
That is the golden question.
And today we are going to breakdown the issues, options,
possibilities of how to get yourfreaking crypto Roth funded so
(01:03):
you don't pay tax ever again onthose trades.
That's the goal.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
Yeah, and we want to talk about three different
scenarios here.
Someone that's new to this,that's like, guys, I can buy
crypto in a Roth IRA.
What even is of that?
Isn't that for stocks and bonds?
Yes, we're gonna talk about thatfor you if you're new to this
topic.
Maybe it's just newcontributions into a Roth IRA.
We'll even talk about thebackdoor Roth IRA.
Maybe you've got some existingRoth money we can transfer over.
(01:27):
Or an old employer 401k.
You can do Roth dollars and buynew crypto.
Or that third category Mark'stalking about here, you're
someone that owns a lot ofcrypto right now, and you want
to get it into more of atax-free growth vehicle.
We're gonna talk about thatcategory too.
So that's our job today.
We want to hit those threecategories and make sure you
understand what it is.
Let me explain the Roth IRAquickly here for everyone.
(01:49):
The government said there's oneaccount you can have, and when
you invest it and you make moneyin it, you don't have to send us
any money.
You don't have to send taxesinto us.
You're selling crypto, you'reselling stock, you're selling
real estate, whatever's in thisaccount, this Roth IRA, don't
send us any money.
You keep it all.
And you know what?
As long as you keep it untilyou're 59 and a half, you can
(02:10):
pull out entirely tax-free too.
Okay, that's the Roth IRA.
It's like in broad daylightsitting in front of us, and Wall
Street's been selling it to youto go buy stocks, bonds, and
mutual funds, which they whichis what they sell.
But you can also own crypto inthis as an asset.
And that's what we've been doingin our company directed IRA for
years.
I bought Bitcoin in 2017 with myretirement account.
(02:32):
Okay, and I know Mark's boughtXRP.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
I'm doing a I'm running a crypto mine in my Roth
IRA right now.
Every three hours, I'm getting apayout through nice hash in
Bitcoin.
And here's some of the myths.
Anyone can have a Roth.
You can if someone's telling youyou make too much money to put
money in a Roth, they're wrong.
It's called a backdoor Roth.
You can have a Roth when you're80 years old.
You can have a Roth when you'reeight years old.
(02:57):
You just have to have earnedincome, very doable.
And you can invest this Roth andkeep it with you for the rest of
your life.
Take it anywhere you want.
You don't have to have anemployer to do it.
It's an individual IRA that hasthis Roth categorization.
And you can buy crypto Roth.
And in fact, at Directed IRA, wegive you an app on your phone
with your crypto, with your RothIRA money to immediately start
(03:20):
trading crypto.
And I don't need to show youwhat's in my XRP right now.
Woo! I'm up, I'm up 300% in thelast year, tax-free in my crypto
Roth.
But with all that said, that'swhat it is.
You guys are like, ah, I want tolearn more.
We got podcasts on what a RothIRA is.
But here's the thing many of youare gonna go, but I don't have
(03:43):
my crypto in my Roth IRA.
How the hell do I get that moneyin there so I don't have this
problem in the future?
Well, my friends, we are here toserve.
We are gonna figure this outwith you.
So you know what a crypto Rothis, you want to have crypto in a
Roth IRA, and you know enough tobe dangerous.
Matt, you said topic number two,or I guess that type of person,
(04:06):
is someone that might have someIRA money.
It's just not in crypto.
That's almost the easiestsituation.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Yeah, and I think that person, you have a couple
of options, which is you mightbe the average American that has
$160,000 in an IRA already.
Okay.
Well, that's most likely a TDAmeritra trade or a broker
dealer, right?
It's not, and then you're buyingstocks, bonds, and mutual funds.
Well, if you're a cryptoinvestor and you love crypto and
you think the value is gonna goup, why are you using your
(04:35):
retirement account to buy mutualfunds or stocks?
Like, why aren't you using thattax-advantaged vehicle?
And the Roth IRA is tax-free, bythe way.
Why aren't we using that vehicleto go buy the asset we believe
is gonna have the bestappreciation?
Because the whole goal of aretirement account is to have
the biggest account possiblewhen you hit 59 and a half.
That's an important point here.
When we're talking about thesethis Roth IRA account and a
(04:57):
retirement account, this islong-term wealth building.
I'm not talking about you're 30years old and you want to use
the money tomorrow.
That's your other crypto youmight have.
But if you're like, guys, I wantto build long-term wealth in the
most tax-advantaged waypossible.
That's the crypto Roth IRA.
And it's also asset protected,too.
Like you can have a lawsuitagainst you, you can file
(05:19):
bankruptcy and keep the assetsin your retirement account.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
Well, Matt keeps getting you guys all, you know,
hot and bothered with the howcool the Roth is, which I love.
They are awesome.
So I'm gonna restate it thisway, too.
If you have an old IRA layingaround with who the hell knows
what's in it?
Some mutual fund or whatever, oryou have a job you worked out
years ago, and you still have anaccount somewhere.
Sometimes you don't even knowwhere it's at.
(05:43):
An old 401k that's justlanguishing with stock in it,
and you haven't looked at thevalue for months.
Those are perfect to say, youknow what?
Stop the insanity.
I'm gonna open a Crypto RothIRA, and you could roll all that
money over.
There's no limit.
I mean, you could roll a milliondollars over, a hundred grand
over.
Any of those old accounts thatare just cob, you know,
(06:04):
collecting cobwebs, get theminto a new Crypto Roth account
and start buying what you know.
That's the first avatar, if youwill.
Kind of they've got moneysitting over here.
Let's roll it in.
You want to add anything to thatavatar?
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Yeah, and the the thing, the other thing I'll say
is if you have traditionaldollars, like let's say it's an
old employer 401k that'straditional, or you got a
traditional IRA, but you'relike, guys, doesn't the
traditional account I grow itand it I pay taxes, I pull the
money out.
I don't I don't want to have a$100,000 traditional account
that turns into a million dollarcrypto IRA and I got to pay tax
(06:40):
on the million coming out.
What do I do?
Well, we can convert that$100Kto Roth.
Okay.
So that$100,000 will getconverted from traditional to
Roth, and you'll pay tax on that$100K now.
But the the benefit, of course,is now it's Roth dollars.
And if it$x's, 10Xs, now you got$500K a million coming out
(07:01):
totally tax free, okay, ratherthan having to pay tax on the
way out later.
So a lot of our clients, whenthey're setting up their crypto
Roth IRA, they're actuallymoving over traditional dollars
and doing a Roth conversion.
All right.
So that's just a quick update.
And again, the Roth grows, comesout entirely tax free.
SPEAKER_00 (07:21):
I love it.
And that would be, I'm gonnacall them avatar number two, is
that they don't have Roth moneyto roll over.
They have traditional money thatneeds to get converted to
rollover.
Now, Matt and I held a cryptotax summit three hours long,
super fun.
We were giving away stuff,people loved it.
We went fast and hard on ninedifferent topics, and we talked
(07:42):
about how to offset thatconversion.
So if you're gonna convert moneyto Roth, what how could I offset
that with some other taxstrategies out there in real
estate, small business, oil andgas, and other ways so that
we're being smart with ourmoney.
If we're gonna convert, let's besmart on how we could create a
tax write-off to offset it.
(08:02):
So those recordings areavailable.
You can go over to any of ourfamily of companies' websites,
marchjkohler.com, directed IRA,and we're gonna have that
recording of the Crypto TaxSummit for free that you can
watch at your leisure.
Okay, now I think there's athird avatar.
And we're gonna come to you guysthat just have a crap ton of
crypto and no Roth IRA at all.
(08:22):
But I think the third avatar isthe business owner.
If you're a business owner oryou are one of the 40 million
Americans that have a sidehustle, you can actually do some
cool things with what's called asolo 401k.
It's like a Roth times four.
You can really put more money inon top of your Roth IRA and get
(08:44):
really creative withcontributions so that you can
get more money into that bucket.
So your snowball is getting moreand more snow as it goes down
the hill.
And I think that's an importantoption for the business owner.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
Yeah, so that's the one if you're self-employed, no
other employees, you're thesolopreneur, you got a side
hustle.
And this is even if you have aday job with the 401k, but you
got your own business or sidehustle, you can do this solo
401k and do$70,000 a year of newcontributions in.
Because a lot of self-employedpeople, we run across them, are
like, well, I don't have this401k, this big company that
(09:18):
matched me for 20 years.
Like I have no retirementaccount.
What do I do?
Well, you do the solo K.
It's awesome.
You put$70,000 in Roth dollars.
And now rather than taking that$70K and just going and buying
crypto, why wouldn't you dothat?
If that's$70K 10X's and now it's$700,000, you pull that, you're
gonna pay tax to right when yousell that$630,000 of gain,
(09:43):
right?
Yeah.
If you just bought itpersonally.
Instead, take that same$70Kyou've already made, you already
paid taxes on it, contribute itin as Roth dollars into the Roth
solo 401k, and buy$70,000 worthof crypto.
Now, when it goes 10x to$700,000, you can pull that out
at retirement.
You gotta have$59.5.
Totally tax-free.
(10:04):
You keep every penny.
You don't pay the IRS anything,nothing's going to the state.
You keep every penny of yourcrypto gains entirely tax free.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:13):
Now, our fourth and final avatar that I know is many
of you are vexed as, and that isyou've got a million dollars in
your individual name.
Maybe it's a hundred grand,maybe it's ten million.
I don't know how many zeros areinvolved, but you've got a crap
ton of crypto that's got abuilt-in gain in it, and it's
(10:35):
sitting there, and you're like,ugh, I don't have a small
business right now that I couldfund a new retirement account.
I don't have old retirementmoney laying around that I can
roll over.
How in the what in the heck do Ido with this?
So we've got two things we wantto say.
First, keep investing it.
(10:55):
And if you're gonna harvest someprofit, we have strategies.
We've talked about this in thecrypto tax summit.
You might sell some of thatcrypto to diversify a little
bit.
We might take that money and gobuy a short-term rental property
and take some depreciationwrite-offs, fund a new business,
take some depreciationwrite-offs, buy oil and gas.
We even love the charitableremainder trust.
(11:17):
Awesome way to keep investingyour crypto, pay zero tax, and
start getting asset protecteddistributions.
So the point being is if you'regonna sell any crypto, we want
to offset that capital gain.
But here's what we want tochallenge you to do.
From now on, there's a new rulein town.
And that is you are if you seesome crypto you want to buy,
(11:40):
you've been buying crypto.
Don't don't lie to us.
You've been you got moneysomewhere because you didn't end
up with all that crypto withoutputting money into your wallet
to begin with.
Where in the hell did that moneycome from?
And you may say, well, I sellcrypto once in a while to go buy
a new token that I really like.
Okay, you're gonna pay tax whenyou do that.
You know that, right?
(12:01):
If I trade Bitcoin for Solana,I'm paying tax when I do that,
whatever the market rate is.
Just take an extra step.
Stop doing that.
If you're gonna sell anything inyour wallet to go buy a new
token you love, or you're gonnatake money from your day job or
whatever it is that helped youbuild that wallet in the first
place, take one extra step andput the money in your Roth IRA
(12:25):
first.
So you're already paying tax.
You're already gonna pay the taxon the conversion, or you pay
tax on your W-2 day job.
Take that money, and the rule isno more crypto purchases in your
own name.
Create a wallet owned by yourRoth.
And you can easily do sevengrand right now before the end
of the year, another seven grandin January, and maybe you do
(12:49):
have a side hustle.
We could start a solo 401k.
But I think, Matt, we've got tohave everybody sign a contract.
No more purchases in yourindividual life.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
What do you think?
Yeah.
Yeah, this is like the no moretaxes pledge, you know, that
politicians have to sign, butit's for you.
How do you pledge to not paymore taxes with your crypto?
You start buying it in your RothIRA.
That's how you solve that, okay?
I like that.
And I want to think of uhanother scenario because this is
some of our clients that I'veseen is you know, with our
(13:18):
crypto Roth IRA, we are uhassociated with Gemini.
So you can buy anything on theGemini Exchange with our Roth
IRA.
It's qualified.
You get all the, you know, it'slegit for IRS purposes.
We're a regulated trust company,audited by CPAs.
Mark and I are tax lawyers, beendoing this for 20 plus years as
tax lawyers.
Well, we've been buying crypto,we we eat our own cooking, okay,
(13:40):
guys.
Like we've done this with ourown accounts personally.
And you can go watch all theother videos about how we've
done that.
But let's say that you'resomeone that's like, hey, I've
got a lot of Bitcoin.
I was pretty early on that, butI think Solana is the next
thing, and I think that's got alot of room ahead of it.
Okay, maybe sell some of thatBitcoin personally.
(14:02):
You will pay some tax.
But if you think Solana is whereit's at, don't rebuy that
personally.
Let's take that money, drop itin as a new contribution for
rough dollars,$7,000 a year.
Starting January 1st in just afew months, you can do another
seven grand.
That's$14,000 there.
Oh, you got a spouse?
They can do seven grand now,plus another seven grand on
(14:23):
January 1st of 2026, around thecorner, guys.
Um and but now I'm buying thatnew crypto in these tax-free
buckets, and we can keepoutlining more of those buckets,
by the way.
And and that's the crypto Ibelieve is gonna appreciate and
go up in value.
And and now we're building thistax-free bucket of wealth that
we're building.
That again, I mentioned assetprotected, and when the money
(14:45):
comes out later on, long-termwealth building, 59 and a half,
totally tax-free.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
Okay, now this I love this.
I'm gonna take the pledge andput it up on my social media.
No more taxes on my cryptopledge, and I am not gonna buy
any more crypto in my individualname.
Now you go, well, Mark, I wantto buy a lot more.
Oh, really?
Do you have kids?
Open up a crypto Roth for them.
You just paid for their college.
(15:11):
Oh, you're married?
Great, double down.
It's marital asset anyway.
You're gonna split it if you getdivorced.
Number three.
Oh, Mark, my mom and dad,they're facing Medicare,
Medicaid.
They're they need some extramoney for retirement.
Great.
Open a crypto Roth in theirnames.
Oh, I do have a college kid thatI need to save money for.
(15:34):
Open a Coverdale crypto account.
You can open a crypto Coverdalefor two grand and invest in any
token you want.
You just paid for their college.
So, guys, quit buying crypto inyour own name for these reasons.
You can do it tax-free.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Did you say that health savings account too?
What about your medicalexpenses?
All right.
Oh, I mean, that's one of thenumber one expenses, especially
in retirement, is medicalexpenses.
And so um using that money,contributing to an HSA, which by
the way, you get a tax deductionfor, investing that HSA money
(16:12):
into buying crypto, don't spendit out, don't take
reimbursements out.
We'll we'll draw on that HSAlater when I have when we have
medical.
But instead, let's let's startbuilding that and growing it,
and your HSA can own crypto.
So we have a crypto HSA as well,which grows, no taxes on the
growth, and comes out tax-freefor qualifying medical, by the
way, at any age.
So we want to use these bucketsof money in a more strategic way
(16:36):
to minimize your tax burden, butuse the the crypto as the
vehicle and the wealth buildingthat you already know it is.
And by the way, Mark and I haveno idea where crypto is going to
go.
We've invested in it andbelieved in it.
But this is not meant to beinvestment advice.
We're trying to talk to you thatalready have decided you know
and believe in you love cryptoand you have a perspective on
(16:56):
its growth.
And if you do, what's the moststrategic way for me to do it?
Let's use these tax-freevehicles that are available to
us in the tax code.
That's what we want you to getexcited about.
Um, and they also, like I said,have some asset protection
benefits to it as well.
So that that's really, I think,the the key message here is it
(17:17):
keeps more money in your pocket.
You can use that money to have abetter quality of life, to
better faster go and scale yourbusiness, whatever it is.
That's the outcome we're tryingto get for you.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Yeah.
And get over, here's the bottomline for me get over complaining
the yeah, guys, the cryptoroth's nice, but I don't have
any money in the crypto Roth.
It's too late.
No, it is never too late to stopbuying any new crypto in your
own name.
(17:46):
Start a new snowball.
You've got a big hill here.
You've rolled this big snowballdown the hill.
It's got your name on it, andit's got a bunch of crypto in
it.
I love it.
But let's start a new snowball.
From now on, you're not gonnaadd personal snow to that.
You're just gonna let thatsnowball keep going down the
(18:06):
hill.
You're gonna start a newsnowball, and you're gonna start
investing in your crypto HSA,your crypto coverdale for your
kids' college, your crypto Roth,and you're gonna start putting
new money in those from maybeyou do sell some crypto.
Maybe you've got again incomefrom another source that you
were using to buy crypto anyway.
(18:28):
Stop the insanity.
Take the pledge.
Take the pledge and say no tomore any more taxes on my
crypto.
And you can do that pledge withthe hashtag down below.
Take that video, post it, andtell people I'm gonna open an
account and stop the insanitybecause the crypto market is
(18:49):
gonna be going great.
I'm sorry, because we can'tpredict what the crypto market's
gonna do, but I know you'rewatching because you believe in
it, and it's time to change yourold ways and see the light.
We've shown you the light.
Come to the light, people.
You can come to the light.
(19:10):
Amen, brother.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
That was so good.
I love it.
Um, you know, we we get excitedabout this, and we do love
helping our clients and umtrying to show them the
strategies that are out thereand available to them.
I know sometimes it can seemconfusing.
We try to distill it, make itsimple.
Also, just you know, our cryptoIRA, it's an annual fee of 295,
and then there's a half apercent trade fee.
Okay, there's other providersout there that are 1% trade fee.
(19:33):
All right, our trade fee is halfa percent, annual fee of 295.
That was one of your questionsabout this and how much it
costs.
Also, if you're someone likeMark said that has a lot of
crypto, you're gonna want tothink about how do I reposition
my wealth to get more money overhere into these Roth accounts
for that new crypto I'm buying,um, do it in a tax-advantage way
or look at some creative ways tomake sure I've got asset
(19:55):
protection and tax planning onthe existing crypto and wealth
I've built.
Our law firm, KQS Lawyers, canhelp you there.
So you can get over tokqoslawyers.com for that as
well.
So uh we're here for you.
Hopefully, you found thishelpful.
Um, the links are below whereyou can take action.
We're here for you.
And thanks everyone.
We'll see you next week onanother amazing episode of the
Directed RA podcast.
(20:16):
Until then, stay calm,self-direct all.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
And thank you everyone for listening.
And a quick disclaimer andreminder this presentation does
not constitute an attorney orCPA client relationship, and it
is always in your best interestto competent legal and tax
professionals when conductingyour own personal transactions.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
We also want to make sure you know this is not
investment advice or financialadvice.
We're just trying to education,ideas, and strategies you can
take to your professionals orconduct your own research on it.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA podcast.
This is Matt Sornson, joined bythe incredible Mark J.
Kohler.
We're two tax lawyers hereteaching you how to not only
make money in crypto, but keepit all, maybe tax-free?
SPEAKER_00 (00:19):
Yeah, I want it all tax-free.
And we've been debating hard forthe last hour on a whiteboard
trying to bring you acutting-edge tip.
And I think we've got it.
We we I know many of you outthere might have even millions.
I talked to someone today thathad$84 million sitting in
multiple wallets.
It's been a great year for them.
(00:40):
But they're like, how do I getthat crypto into my Roth IRA or
my Roth 401k?
Because over there I don't paytax, but I build up all this
wealth in a crypto wallet that Iown personally.
That is the golden question.
And today we are going to breakdown the issues, options,
possibilities of how to get yourfreaking crypto Roth funded so
(01:03):
you don't pay tax ever again onthose trades.
That's the goal.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
Yeah, and we want to talk about three different
scenarios here.
Someone that's new to this,that's like, guys, I can buy
crypto in a Roth IRA.
What even is of that?
Isn't that for stocks and bonds?
Yes, we're gonna talk about thatfor you if you're new to this
topic.
Maybe it's just newcontributions into a Roth IRA.
We'll even talk about thebackdoor Roth IRA.
Maybe you've got some existingRoth money we can transfer over.
(01:27):
Or an old employer 401k.
You can do Roth dollars and buynew crypto.
Or that third category Mark'stalking about here, you're
someone that owns a lot ofcrypto right now, and you want
to get it into more of atax-free growth vehicle.
We're gonna talk about thatcategory too.
So that's our job today.
We want to hit those threecategories and make sure you
understand what it is.
Let me explain the Roth IRAquickly here for everyone.
(01:49):
The government said there's oneaccount you can have, and when
you invest it and you make moneyin it, you don't have to send us
any money.
You don't have to send taxesinto us.
You're selling crypto, you'reselling stock, you're selling
real estate, whatever's in thisaccount, this Roth IRA, don't
send us any money.
You keep it all.
And you know what?
As long as you keep it untilyou're 59 and a half, you can
(02:10):
pull out entirely tax-free too.
Okay, that's the Roth IRA.
It's like in broad daylightsitting in front of us, and Wall
Street's been selling it to youto go buy stocks, bonds, and
mutual funds, which they whichis what they sell.
But you can also own crypto inthis as an asset.
And that's what we've been doingin our company directed IRA for
years.
I bought Bitcoin in 2017 with myretirement account.
(02:32):
Okay, and I know Mark's boughtXRP.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
I'm doing a I'm running a crypto mine in my Roth
IRA right now.
Every three hours, I'm getting apayout through nice hash in
Bitcoin.
And here's some of the myths.
Anyone can have a Roth.
You can if someone's telling youyou make too much money to put
money in a Roth, they're wrong.
It's called a backdoor Roth.
You can have a Roth when you're80 years old.
You can have a Roth when you'reeight years old.
(02:57):
You just have to have earnedincome, very doable.
And you can invest this Roth andkeep it with you for the rest of
your life.
Take it anywhere you want.
You don't have to have anemployer to do it.
It's an individual IRA that hasthis Roth categorization.
And you can buy crypto Roth.
And in fact, at Directed IRA, wegive you an app on your phone
with your crypto, with your RothIRA money to immediately start
(03:20):
trading crypto.
And I don't need to show youwhat's in my XRP right now.
Woo! I'm up, I'm up 300% in thelast year, tax-free in my crypto
Roth.
But with all that said, that'swhat it is.
You guys are like, ah, I want tolearn more.
We got podcasts on what a RothIRA is.
But here's the thing many of youare gonna go, but I don't have
(03:43):
my crypto in my Roth IRA.
How the hell do I get that moneyin there so I don't have this
problem in the future?
Well, my friends, we are here toserve.
We are gonna figure this outwith you.
So you know what a crypto Rothis, you want to have crypto in a
Roth IRA, and you know enough tobe dangerous.
Matt, you said topic number two,or I guess that type of person,
(04:06):
is someone that might have someIRA money.
It's just not in crypto.
That's almost the easiestsituation.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Yeah, and I think that person, you have a couple
of options, which is you mightbe the average American that has
$160,000 in an IRA already.
Okay.
Well, that's most likely a TDAmeritra trade or a broker
dealer, right?
It's not, and then you're buyingstocks, bonds, and mutual funds.
Well, if you're a cryptoinvestor and you love crypto and
you think the value is gonna goup, why are you using your
(04:35):
retirement account to buy mutualfunds or stocks?
Like, why aren't you using thattax-advantaged vehicle?
And the Roth IRA is tax-free, bythe way.
Why aren't we using that vehicleto go buy the asset we believe
is gonna have the bestappreciation?
Because the whole goal of aretirement account is to have
the biggest account possiblewhen you hit 59 and a half.
That's an important point here.
When we're talking about thesethis Roth IRA account and a
(04:57):
retirement account, this islong-term wealth building.
I'm not talking about you're 30years old and you want to use
the money tomorrow.
That's your other crypto youmight have.
But if you're like, guys, I wantto build long-term wealth in the
most tax-advantaged waypossible.
That's the crypto Roth IRA.
And it's also asset protected,too.
Like you can have a lawsuitagainst you, you can file
(05:19):
bankruptcy and keep the assetsin your retirement account.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
Well, Matt keeps getting you guys all, you know,
hot and bothered with the howcool the Roth is, which I love.
They are awesome.
So I'm gonna restate it thisway, too.
If you have an old IRA layingaround with who the hell knows
what's in it?
Some mutual fund or whatever, oryou have a job you worked out
years ago, and you still have anaccount somewhere.
Sometimes you don't even knowwhere it's at.
(05:43):
An old 401k that's justlanguishing with stock in it,
and you haven't looked at thevalue for months.
Those are perfect to say, youknow what?
Stop the insanity.
I'm gonna open a Crypto RothIRA, and you could roll all that
money over.
There's no limit.
I mean, you could roll a milliondollars over, a hundred grand
over.
Any of those old accounts thatare just cob, you know,
(06:04):
collecting cobwebs, get theminto a new Crypto Roth account
and start buying what you know.
That's the first avatar, if youwill.
Kind of they've got moneysitting over here.
Let's roll it in.
You want to add anything to thatavatar?
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Yeah, and the the thing, the other thing I'll say
is if you have traditionaldollars, like let's say it's an
old employer 401k that'straditional, or you got a
traditional IRA, but you'relike, guys, doesn't the
traditional account I grow itand it I pay taxes, I pull the
money out.
I don't I don't want to have a$100,000 traditional account
that turns into a million dollarcrypto IRA and I got to pay tax
(06:40):
on the million coming out.
What do I do?
Well, we can convert that$100Kto Roth.
Okay.
So that$100,000 will getconverted from traditional to
Roth, and you'll pay tax on that$100K now.
But the the benefit, of course,is now it's Roth dollars.
And if it$x's, 10Xs, now you got$500K a million coming out
(07:01):
totally tax free, okay, ratherthan having to pay tax on the
way out later.
So a lot of our clients, whenthey're setting up their crypto
Roth IRA, they're actuallymoving over traditional dollars
and doing a Roth conversion.
All right.
So that's just a quick update.
And again, the Roth grows, comesout entirely tax free.
SPEAKER_00 (07:21):
I love it.
And that would be, I'm gonnacall them avatar number two, is
that they don't have Roth moneyto roll over.
They have traditional money thatneeds to get converted to
rollover.
Now, Matt and I held a cryptotax summit three hours long,
super fun.
We were giving away stuff,people loved it.
We went fast and hard on ninedifferent topics, and we talked
(07:42):
about how to offset thatconversion.
So if you're gonna convert moneyto Roth, what how could I offset
that with some other taxstrategies out there in real
estate, small business, oil andgas, and other ways so that
we're being smart with ourmoney.
If we're gonna convert, let's besmart on how we could create a
tax write-off to offset it.
(08:02):
So those recordings areavailable.
You can go over to any of ourfamily of companies' websites,
marchjkohler.com, directed IRA,and we're gonna have that
recording of the Crypto TaxSummit for free that you can
watch at your leisure.
Okay, now I think there's athird avatar.
And we're gonna come to you guysthat just have a crap ton of
crypto and no Roth IRA at all.
(08:22):
But I think the third avatar isthe business owner.
If you're a business owner oryou are one of the 40 million
Americans that have a sidehustle, you can actually do some
cool things with what's called asolo 401k.
It's like a Roth times four.
You can really put more money inon top of your Roth IRA and get
(08:44):
really creative withcontributions so that you can
get more money into that bucket.
So your snowball is getting moreand more snow as it goes down
the hill.
And I think that's an importantoption for the business owner.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
Yeah, so that's the one if you're self-employed, no
other employees, you're thesolopreneur, you got a side
hustle.
And this is even if you have aday job with the 401k, but you
got your own business or sidehustle, you can do this solo
401k and do$70,000 a year of newcontributions in.
Because a lot of self-employedpeople, we run across them, are
like, well, I don't have this401k, this big company that
(09:18):
matched me for 20 years.
Like I have no retirementaccount.
What do I do?
Well, you do the solo K.
It's awesome.
You put$70,000 in Roth dollars.
And now rather than taking that$70K and just going and buying
crypto, why wouldn't you dothat?
If that's$70K 10X's and now it's$700,000, you pull that, you're
gonna pay tax to right when yousell that$630,000 of gain,
(09:43):
right?
Yeah.
If you just bought itpersonally.
Instead, take that same$70Kyou've already made, you already
paid taxes on it, contribute itin as Roth dollars into the Roth
solo 401k, and buy$70,000 worthof crypto.
Now, when it goes 10x to$700,000, you can pull that out
at retirement.
You gotta have$59.5.
Totally tax-free.
(10:04):
You keep every penny.
You don't pay the IRS anything,nothing's going to the state.
You keep every penny of yourcrypto gains entirely tax free.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:13):
Now, our fourth and final avatar that I know is many
of you are vexed as, and that isyou've got a million dollars in
your individual name.
Maybe it's a hundred grand,maybe it's ten million.
I don't know how many zeros areinvolved, but you've got a crap
ton of crypto that's got abuilt-in gain in it, and it's
(10:35):
sitting there, and you're like,ugh, I don't have a small
business right now that I couldfund a new retirement account.
I don't have old retirementmoney laying around that I can
roll over.
How in the what in the heck do Ido with this?
So we've got two things we wantto say.
First, keep investing it.
(10:55):
And if you're gonna harvest someprofit, we have strategies.
We've talked about this in thecrypto tax summit.
You might sell some of thatcrypto to diversify a little
bit.
We might take that money and gobuy a short-term rental property
and take some depreciationwrite-offs, fund a new business,
take some depreciationwrite-offs, buy oil and gas.
We even love the charitableremainder trust.
(11:17):
Awesome way to keep investingyour crypto, pay zero tax, and
start getting asset protecteddistributions.
So the point being is if you'regonna sell any crypto, we want
to offset that capital gain.
But here's what we want tochallenge you to do.
From now on, there's a new rulein town.
And that is you are if you seesome crypto you want to buy,
(11:40):
you've been buying crypto.
Don't don't lie to us.
You've been you got moneysomewhere because you didn't end
up with all that crypto withoutputting money into your wallet
to begin with.
Where in the hell did that moneycome from?
And you may say, well, I sellcrypto once in a while to go buy
a new token that I really like.
Okay, you're gonna pay tax whenyou do that.
You know that, right?
(12:01):
If I trade Bitcoin for Solana,I'm paying tax when I do that,
whatever the market rate is.
Just take an extra step.
Stop doing that.
If you're gonna sell anything inyour wallet to go buy a new
token you love, or you're gonnatake money from your day job or
whatever it is that helped youbuild that wallet in the first
place, take one extra step andput the money in your Roth IRA
(12:25):
first.
So you're already paying tax.
You're already gonna pay the taxon the conversion, or you pay
tax on your W-2 day job.
Take that money, and the rule isno more crypto purchases in your
own name.
Create a wallet owned by yourRoth.
And you can easily do sevengrand right now before the end
of the year, another seven grandin January, and maybe you do
(12:49):
have a side hustle.
We could start a solo 401k.
But I think, Matt, we've got tohave everybody sign a contract.
No more purchases in yourindividual life.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
What do you think?
Yeah.
Yeah, this is like the no moretaxes pledge, you know, that
politicians have to sign, butit's for you.
How do you pledge to not paymore taxes with your crypto?
You start buying it in your RothIRA.
That's how you solve that, okay?
I like that.
And I want to think of uhanother scenario because this is
some of our clients that I'veseen is you know, with our
(13:18):
crypto Roth IRA, we are uhassociated with Gemini.
So you can buy anything on theGemini Exchange with our Roth
IRA.
It's qualified.
You get all the, you know, it'slegit for IRS purposes.
We're a regulated trust company,audited by CPAs.
Mark and I are tax lawyers, beendoing this for 20 plus years as
tax lawyers.
Well, we've been buying crypto,we we eat our own cooking, okay,
(13:40):
guys.
Like we've done this with ourown accounts personally.
And you can go watch all theother videos about how we've
done that.
But let's say that you'resomeone that's like, hey, I've
got a lot of Bitcoin.
I was pretty early on that, butI think Solana is the next
thing, and I think that's got alot of room ahead of it.
Okay, maybe sell some of thatBitcoin personally.
(14:02):
You will pay some tax.
But if you think Solana is whereit's at, don't rebuy that
personally.
Let's take that money, drop itin as a new contribution for
rough dollars,$7,000 a year.
Starting January 1st in just afew months, you can do another
seven grand.
That's$14,000 there.
Oh, you got a spouse?
They can do seven grand now,plus another seven grand on
(14:23):
January 1st of 2026, around thecorner, guys.
Um and but now I'm buying thatnew crypto in these tax-free
buckets, and we can keepoutlining more of those buckets,
by the way.
And and that's the crypto Ibelieve is gonna appreciate and
go up in value.
And and now we're building thistax-free bucket of wealth that
we're building.
That again, I mentioned assetprotected, and when the money
(14:45):
comes out later on, long-termwealth building, 59 and a half,
totally tax-free.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
Okay, now this I love this.
I'm gonna take the pledge andput it up on my social media.
No more taxes on my cryptopledge, and I am not gonna buy
any more crypto in my individualname.
Now you go, well, Mark, I wantto buy a lot more.
Oh, really?
Do you have kids?
Open up a crypto Roth for them.
You just paid for their college.
(15:11):
Oh, you're married?
Great, double down.
It's marital asset anyway.
You're gonna split it if you getdivorced.
Number three.
Oh, Mark, my mom and dad,they're facing Medicare,
Medicaid.
They're they need some extramoney for retirement.
Great.
Open a crypto Roth in theirnames.
Oh, I do have a college kid thatI need to save money for.
(15:34):
Open a Coverdale crypto account.
You can open a crypto Coverdalefor two grand and invest in any
token you want.
You just paid for their college.
So, guys, quit buying crypto inyour own name for these reasons.
You can do it tax-free.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Did you say that health savings account too?
What about your medicalexpenses?
All right.
Oh, I mean, that's one of thenumber one expenses, especially
in retirement, is medicalexpenses.
And so um using that money,contributing to an HSA, which by
the way, you get a tax deductionfor, investing that HSA money
(16:12):
into buying crypto, don't spendit out, don't take
reimbursements out.
We'll we'll draw on that HSAlater when I have when we have
medical.
But instead, let's let's startbuilding that and growing it,
and your HSA can own crypto.
So we have a crypto HSA as well,which grows, no taxes on the
growth, and comes out tax-freefor qualifying medical, by the
way, at any age.
So we want to use these bucketsof money in a more strategic way
(16:36):
to minimize your tax burden, butuse the the crypto as the
vehicle and the wealth buildingthat you already know it is.
And by the way, Mark and I haveno idea where crypto is going to
go.
We've invested in it andbelieved in it.
But this is not meant to beinvestment advice.
We're trying to talk to you thatalready have decided you know
and believe in you love cryptoand you have a perspective on
(16:56):
its growth.
And if you do, what's the moststrategic way for me to do it?
Let's use these tax-freevehicles that are available to
us in the tax code.
That's what we want you to getexcited about.
Um, and they also, like I said,have some asset protection
benefits to it as well.
So that that's really, I think,the the key message here is it
(17:17):
keeps more money in your pocket.
You can use that money to have abetter quality of life, to
better faster go and scale yourbusiness, whatever it is.
That's the outcome we're tryingto get for you.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Yeah.
And get over, here's the bottomline for me get over complaining
the yeah, guys, the cryptoroth's nice, but I don't have
any money in the crypto Roth.
It's too late.
No, it is never too late to stopbuying any new crypto in your
own name.
(17:46):
Start a new snowball.
You've got a big hill here.
You've rolled this big snowballdown the hill.
It's got your name on it, andit's got a bunch of crypto in
it.
I love it.
But let's start a new snowball.
From now on, you're not gonnaadd personal snow to that.
You're just gonna let thatsnowball keep going down the
(18:06):
hill.
You're gonna start a newsnowball, and you're gonna start
investing in your crypto HSA,your crypto coverdale for your
kids' college, your crypto Roth,and you're gonna start putting
new money in those from maybeyou do sell some crypto.
Maybe you've got again incomefrom another source that you
were using to buy crypto anyway.
(18:28):
Stop the insanity.
Take the pledge.
Take the pledge and say no tomore any more taxes on my
crypto.
And you can do that pledge withthe hashtag down below.
Take that video, post it, andtell people I'm gonna open an
account and stop the insanitybecause the crypto market is
(18:49):
gonna be going great.
I'm sorry, because we can'tpredict what the crypto market's
gonna do, but I know you'rewatching because you believe in
it, and it's time to change yourold ways and see the light.
We've shown you the light.
Come to the light, people.
You can come to the light.
(19:10):
Amen, brother.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
That was so good.
I love it.
Um, you know, we we get excitedabout this, and we do love
helping our clients and umtrying to show them the
strategies that are out thereand available to them.
I know sometimes it can seemconfusing.
We try to distill it, make itsimple.
Also, just you know, our cryptoIRA, it's an annual fee of 295,
and then there's a half apercent trade fee.
Okay, there's other providersout there that are 1% trade fee.
(19:33):
All right, our trade fee is halfa percent, annual fee of 295.
That was one of your questionsabout this and how much it
costs.
Also, if you're someone likeMark said that has a lot of
crypto, you're gonna want tothink about how do I reposition
my wealth to get more money overhere into these Roth accounts
for that new crypto I'm buying,um, do it in a tax-advantage way
or look at some creative ways tomake sure I've got asset
(19:55):
protection and tax planning onthe existing crypto and wealth
I've built.
Our law firm, KQS Lawyers, canhelp you there.
So you can get over tokqoslawyers.com for that as
well.
So uh we're here for you.
Hopefully, you found thishelpful.
Um, the links are below whereyou can take action.
We're here for you.
And thanks everyone.
We'll see you next week onanother amazing episode of the
Directed RA podcast.
(20:16):
Until then, stay calm,self-direct all.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
And thank you everyone for listening.
And a quick disclaimer andreminder this presentation does
not constitute an attorney orCPA client relationship, and it
is always in your best interestto competent legal and tax
professionals when conductingyour own personal transactions.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
We also want to make sure you know this is not
investment advice or financialadvice.
We're just trying to education,ideas, and strategies you can
take to your professionals orconduct your own research on it.
We'll see you next time.
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