December 17, 2021 • 21 mins
In part 2 of my interview with Doug Goist, we talk about the mission of National Industries for the Blind and how the pandemic has shifted employer's mindset of disabled persons working from home. As Doug and his team work with candidates and employers, he crushes the common stigmas that are not valid and shows how even eyeglasses are assistive technology.
Tune in and enjoy!
Website: https://nsite.org/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:03):
Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by
Abilities in Motion.
I'm your host, Shelly Houser.
Join us for real conversationsand no nonsense talk from
everyday people withdisabilities, living their most
independent everyday lives.
Tune in for the latest newssurrounding accessibility and
independence, whereconversations aren't dis and
(00:25):
stories that need to be toldaren't missed.
So let's talk.
Shelly (00:32):
Welcome back folks.
I'm your host Shelly Houser.
And today is part two of myinterview with Doug Goist
talking about disabilityemployment.
Doug, welcome back to the show,
Doug (00:44):
Shelly.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me,
Shelly (00:49):
Doug.
You've worked for the NationalIndustries for the Blind in out
of Virginia and NSITE for thelast 11 years.
What's your personal goal andmission with the work that you
do?
Doug (01:01):
Thanks Shelly.
That my, my, uh, personalmission thankfully syncs up with
both NIBS mission and NSITE'smission and, and that is, uh,
creating or helping not directlycreating, but helping create
success stories.
(01:22):
Um, I'll give you a quickexample.
We had one, uh, gentleman nearwhen I first started at NIB.
He was in the program that I washelping, uh, run for both the
department of defense, militaryand so forth.
So what basically, what, whatthis program was doing is doing
(01:43):
is, uh, club was in contractsfor the government.
So, you know, crossing the Ts,doting the I's and reconciling
numbers and so forth.
Anyway, this gentleman wasworking at a front desk and he
was basically doing a kind oflike just working reception.
There's nothing wrong with that,but his, uh, skill level was way
above that he was legally blind,uh, impaired and was connected
(02:05):
with a component of Boeing.
And I, in fact, just heard fromhim after all these years, a
couple weeks ago, and he isdoing tremendously well in
Boeing.
So getting those success storiesand hearing his bosses and his
bosses boss saying how wonderfulhe is as an employee.
(02:25):
That is what drives me becausehonestly the struggles that back
in our day, way back, it, it was, um, it was a lot of struggle.
It was a lot of getting doorsclosed in your face and not
there, there really were noresources that I was aware of,
like for employment.
So seeing these, um, talented,very talented individuals a lot,
(02:46):
as you mentioned before, we hadpeople with PhDs master's
degrees, 20 years, experiencemovers and shakers and so forth
and helping them on a path toget back in the game.
So to speak back in theworkforce and being productive
is, is really the most benefit Iget.
It's like, if I can, if I canhelp someone cut the pain
(03:08):
in the cut corners and, and fasttrack to getting on, you know,
with your career in life andeverything else, then that's,
that's all the, uh, benefit thatI could ever, you know, know
want.
Shelly (03:20):
Then you've succeeded in, in your mission.
Doug (03:22):
We have a long way to go, but I.
I, uh, yeah, every day we, everyday we try to find new
opportunities.
We're we're training, Ciscocertified network associates for
cybersecurity.
It, we're doing HR recruiting,sourcing.
We're looking in supply chaintraining.
We're working with Google givingscholarships for it, help desk
(03:42):
support and project management.
So we're trying everything to,uh, get folks, you know, the
skills they need, especially,and the, and the opportunity
with our corporate customers,
Shelly (03:53):
Just putting that seed of inquisitiveness in their
minds as employers and showingthem the possibilities of what
can be done.
It, you know, I know the ADA'sbeen out 31 years and we're
still chipping away at it.
But if we look back at where wewere 31 years ago, we have come
a long way.
Like you said, you, you have tolook at the positive and say,
(04:15):
okay, it's is it perfect rightnow?
No, but is it a heck of a lotbetter than it was in the 60s
and the 70s when centers forindependent living was still
being developed?
Heck yeah, we're getting there.
We talked about how people areunderemployed with disabilities.
And can you tell our listenerswhy it's so important and what
(04:36):
society as a whole can do tocreate a more inclusive, social
model, not just employment, butin society, in, in general to
kind of, when they talk aboutdiversity and inclusion, they
also think firsthand think toadd disabilities into that mix?
Doug (04:57):
Yeah.
It's absolutely it needs, itneeds be in the framework or at
least within the, the sphere ofsomebody's, um, whether it's
their mind or their process or,or what have you.
In other words, you know,there's this concept of
universal design.
It it's very important.
Shelly, You, you know, this it'sfar as, uh, accessible life, you
(05:22):
know, social life events,buildings.
When cities, uh, what have you,they're doing curb cutouts, you
know, don't just do one curbcutout that goes in the middle
of the intersection.
You know, do do two, dotwo of them that costs a little
bit more.
And then, you know, you havetruncated domes, they're called
the little, the bumps that, uh,person that uses a white cane.
(05:43):
Like I do can feel that thatthat's marks the street
crossing.
So that's, that's just theinfrastructure side of it.
But even with new buildings anddesigners and architects, you
know, NRB, our headquarters isit's pretty spectacular.
We hired a, uh, totally blindarchitect, professional
architect, Chris Downey, out ofSan Francisco, who, who lost his
(06:05):
vision at 40 and went totallyblind and re revived his career
as a, as an architect, he's donelike Duke University eye center.
But anyway, he came in and hehelped helped us with boost
sticks.
We have talking elevators, wehave, uh, a really nice roof
area that we installed aartificial grass surface with a
(06:25):
trash can, so people can relievetheir dogs in the wintertime or,
or whenever.
And they don't have to go acrossthe street, find a patch of
grass or what have you.
But anyway, so, you know,that's, that's unusual,
obviously.
So socially when you'repurchasing things, when you're
setting up things, designingthings, whether you're running a
business, whether you're gettingorganizing social events, you
(06:46):
know, have that in the back ofyour mind, or, or just keep it
in mind that there, there are, Ithink your number was 43 million
in the US.
Anyway, I think it's like abillion worldwide people with
disability that they're, they'revery loyal.
Whether if you're business orloyal customers, if, if they're,
if it's a society they're gonnabe resilient and, and productive
(07:07):
because they're the best, um,advocates, Cuz they're gonna
talk to their friends and talkto their friends and their
family members and those type of, uh, situations.
And it, you know, in the, in andout of the workplace, if you
make, let's just say technology,uh, whether it's a kiosk or
whether it's a, like, I just sawthat, um, Freedom Scientifics
working with, uh, McDonald's,they're having these, uh,
(07:28):
checkout kiosks where it's selforder, they're already working
to make them accessible.
So a lot of times these, theseaccessibility features tools,
designs, they're they helpeveryone.
They help people who areelderly, who, um, maybe have a
hard time singing, you know,they don't have a, uh, the
latest and assistive techsoftware built into their, you
(07:50):
know, phones or what have you.
But if you make it, you know,accessible to people, uh, with
vision impairment, wheelchairs,people who are hearing impaired,
it, it just helps everyone andit doesn't have to be expensive.
Shelly (08:05):
Very good.
Yeah.
So the pandemic, we are stillsort of at the tail end of it.
Uh, it's, it's quieted down, butmillions of us able bodied or
disabled workers we're workingfrom home and did this shift
employers and hiring manager'sperspective on hiring with
(08:28):
people with disabilities nowthat they see it can be done,
has it shifted their mindset on,on this opportunity for us?
Doug (08:38):
It definitely has shifted for their entire workforce
sighted and other and non didnon-disabled, disabled because
they quickly realized havingpeople work from home.
I know we served serviced, uh,one of our customers at NIB, uh,
was a military air force andthey had to, um, distribute
(09:02):
10,000 laptops.
Um, so what, what they discover,not them, but just in general,
uh, corporate society hasdiscovered is you find out your
gaps really quickly when youhave everybody working remotely
.
Yeah.
So, yeah, and it's, and, and forpeople, you know, with blindness
(09:23):
it's, it's what systems maywork, what, what may not work.
And I'm talking in the greater,uh, private sector, you know,
that, that if somebody was usedto coming and working on a
couple processes and nowsuddenly they're setting up
remote meetings and everything,well, you know, you wanna use
tools like zoom, which isincredibly, uh, accessible and,
(09:45):
o r Microsoft teams, and be ableto understand that not all
technology is going to havethese t ool, these features
built into them.
So i t's, it's a lot of thatkind of vetting and, a nd
validating and assessing, Ithink a challenge is you still
want, when you're interviewingsomebody, you still want to have
that person in front of you.
(10:05):
I think all of us k ind o f, uh,,,, w ould, would you agree
that i t j ust, you just k ind of get a different vibe, u m, j
ust being around somebody and then through zoom?
Shelly (10:17):
you, you feel
their body language, you feel
their energy or, or lack oftheir energy.
And it's just, it's just adifferent feeling, being human
to human.
And I was just actually sayingto somebody yesterday that we
almost have to reconfigure howto be social again with one
another.
Because of pandemic, we, we wereforced to not be social and hang
(10:40):
out with the water cooler or goout to lunch with our coworkers
for over a year.
And now we have to get back tothat.
Um, but there's definitely somebenefits
Doug (10:50):
And that I, I, I agree.
It's, it's really importantbecause, um, I made the joke
with another, a blind employeethat, uh, when the, when the, uh
, quarantine started that, uh,oh, well, you know, its like,
well, when you lose eyesight,we're kind of used to self
quarantine because that's kind we kind of have that
experience because you know, youlose your car and you can't get,
(11:10):
maybe you're living in a citywith no transportation.
So you kind of do feelquarantined, but um, to your
point that the importance isespecially with disabilities,
it's very easy to get back slideinto being, uh, less social
let's just say maybe because,well, maybe that restaurant's
too challenging to go to, ormaybe that, that office, I, I
(11:32):
would just rather be in my safebubble versus putting yourself
out there because you, in somecases in ambassador or pioneer,
when you're the only disabledperson walking or interacting
with cited, coworkers,colleagues, friends, and so
forth that, uh, you, you wannamaintain that close connection
with people.
And so it's, it's a trade off.
(11:53):
I, I think it could be done bothways.
So, you know, having thatinteraction, I think's
important.
And sometimes in meetings whereyou're brainstorming, it's
sometimes it's, it's great tosit around the table and
brainstorm with people versushitting your mute button and
then unmuting and nobodynobody's unmuted.
So like you said, around thewater cooler, lunchroom, those
(12:13):
type of things, the good news istechnology because of the
quarantine or the pandemic hasreally advanced a advanced the
capability of doing a lot morework from home.
Shelly (12:26):
Yeah.
Because we can connect.
So it's all great.
What are some common stigmasthat you would like employers t
o k now about persons withdisabilities and employment?
Doug (12:39):
Um, I, I think the, the main probable stigma is with,
um, maybe a hiring manager thathas never interviewed somebody
with a disability is what theymight see in the, you know, past
films or they just have no, uh,understanding, uh, that they
(13:00):
kind of jumped to a conclusionbefore really digging into it.
Just not keeping that open mind.
And it's, it's not to criticizesomebody for doing that because
it's totally understandable.
But for instance, I was stunnedafter I lost vision, how many
people were yelling at me andtalked, yelling very loudly and
(13:20):
slowly at me.
And I'm, I'm like, I'm standingright here.
, I'm looking at you.
Right, right.
Hear you just fine.
can hear
Shelly (13:29):
I can hear you fine.
And you're yelling.
Doug (13:30):
Yes.
And they think, yeah, theythink, you know, you're hearing
must be, you must have superhearing.
It's, it's not it's because yourvision is taken away that your
brain is searching for a soundinformation, things like that.
But as far as that stigma isthat what I addressed earlier
is, well, you're, you're blind.
How, how are you going to use acomputer in this job?
(13:53):
And I just don't see how that'sgonna, how that's gonna work.
And is this gonna be expensivebecause we don't have a lot of
money in, in 20 years ago, 30years ago.
Yeah.
It was expensive to get a soundcard and, and get new speaking
technology and all the, but nowit's built into apps, phone
apps, speaking technology,magnification it's, it's built
(14:16):
into computers.
It's built in a lot of devicesthat it's, you know, for under
$3,000, you could have somebodycompletely set up,
Shelly (14:26):
But things like a standing, uh, workbench, my IT
guy has one and he sometimesopts to stand.
Um, just my other coworker, justbringing in her, seeing eye dog
is her reasonable accommodationthat doesn't cost them anything.
She has a very small littleoffice and the dog is, is in her
space and, you know, doesn'tbother people.
(14:48):
And, uh, it, it could be a, evenjust a, a specialized chair for
somebody with chronic backissues, uh, that we had a
coworker here.
So reasonable accommodations.
And like you said earlier,eyeglasses, hearing aids.
These are all assistivetechnology that can be low cost.
And I, I challenge any employeror hiring manager to, to reach
(15:11):
out to Doug and his team andlearn more about how to be less
afraid of these outdated stigmasthat really are just that
they're assumptions that arereally, I don't know, Doug, do
you agree?
They're, they're really, for themost part, not even true.
Doug (15:26):
They are, they aren't true.
And you know, again, in the caseof blindness, if his, if a
hiring manager, you know, waswearing glasses, I'm in a
position where I'm notfortunately not, um,
interviewing for work, but youknow, you know, if I were really
bold and brash, you would, youwould just wanna say, I noticed
you wear glasses.
Well, you know, can you readwithout them?
(15:48):
And if they say, no, it's like,well now are you unemployable?
Because if, if you say you'renot, that's exactly what that's
exactly what, um, people withvision impairments and other
disabilities, it's just, we'redoing things differently.
The, the resilience aspect of itis huge.
And the retention is I, I forgotthe numbers, but it's 60, 70%
(16:09):
retention versus the job jumpersmaybe who don't have
disabilities.
That company has an accessibleonboarding system and
interviewing system and, or theyneed help.
They can reach out to insightobviously, but disabled
employees are gonna know it.
It's a great place to work, andthey're gonna tell their friends
and, and they're gonna, they'regonna stay with the, all that
brain knowledge is gonna bethere.
Shelly (16:32):
Finally, where can listeners find more about you
and NSITE on social media?
Where are you located at?
Doug (16:40):
Well, I would, uh, recommend both, you know,
listeners and, and alsocorporate customer, potential
customers, o r even justcorporate listeners in general.
O ur website is NSITE.
org, and that's s pelled N SITE.
org.
And, u h, job seekers click onNSITE.
(17:01):
org and look at, u h, i nsight connect j ob org.
And you can upload your resume.
You can p ut your profile inthere and look for jobs a nd
corporate customers can also useo nsite connect and post j obs.
So we work with them as well.
That's the main entry point forus as far as the, u m, web
activity, u h, social media, Iwould, I would say I'm available
on LinkedIn, Douglas last n ameGOIST you c an see some of my
(17:25):
information and I'm happy totalk with anyone who, again,
either needs some guidance onhow to, how to work with people
with disabilities or somebodywho's struggling, or somebody
who's a, that h as somequestions on, Hey, I, I don't
know where to start.
Can you, you know, g ive m e aadvice.I'm happy to do that.
Those would be the main, mainones I would say.
(17:45):
I'm not too active on othersocial ones.
Shelly (17:47):
That's okay.
But yeah, in your spare time, Iwanted to bring up quickly, you
are part of the Team USA icehockey team as well, right?
Doug (17:57):
Yes.
Um, and, uh, I appreciate youmentioned that because, uh, I'm
really proud of my teammates.
They come from all over thecountry and they're all, all
ages.
I mean, I, from teenage on upand, um, you know, we, we played
Team Canada for the first timein 2019, and those games can be
(18:17):
found in other games on YouTube.
If you look up USA or Team USAversus Team Canada just don't
look at the score.
Uh, we've been, we've been, um,a team now for three or years.
We unfortunately the pandemiccanceled.
We're supposed to play TeamCanada two weeks ago in St.
Louis and it was canceled.
But, um, yeah, this it's soblind hockey is a thing.
(18:42):
And, um, it uses a steel puckthat has eight metal ball
bearings in it, it rattles, andit makes a lot of noise.
It's about, size of a p ot pie.
The, the nets are the same widthas a n NHL net.
I t's just a foot shorter.
So, and I'm the goalie.
So I, I try to keep that steelpuck, that's moving at 40, 50
miles an hour from< laugh>getting into the net.
(19:04):
And, u h, it's, it's reallyamazing.
U m, a nd people with differentvision impairments and t hat I
could go into a whole otherexplanation about how that
breaks down, like the, thehelmets a re different colors
based on your level of vision.
So, and there's a point system
Shelly (19:23):
I'm gonna have to have you back when your team goes to
the next, uh, Olympics in thewinter, and we'll, we'll have
you and your team mates onanother day to explain the
breakdown of all of that.
How's that sound?
Doug (19:34):
It's good.
We're, we're working on the 2026Paralympics, but Finland,
Russia, Sweden, and the UK nowhave blind hockey teams.
And we're looking to get more.
So, uh, hopefully in 2026, but,but when we face Canada, I'll
definitely let you know.
Shelly (19:51):
Thank You.
So, Doug, thank you so much foryour time and attention and all
this wonderful information andcrushing those stigmas, cuz
they're so important.
Those thank you for your timeand being here on the show
today,
Doug (20:01):
Shelly, I really appreciate it on, on behalf of
my teammates at NSITE andNational Industries for the
Blind.
We really, we really appreciate,uh, you getting the word out
there and um, we're always,we're always here to help.
Shelly (20:12):
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
And to my listeners worldwide,thank you so much for listening
today and make sure you hit thatlike and subscribe button so you
never miss an opportunity tolisten to DisAbility Talks.
Outro w/ Music (20:47):
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of
disability talks, wanna keep theconversation going then visit
our website at abilitiesinmotion.org or connect with us on
social media.
And remember don't dis myability.
Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by
Abilities in Motion.
I'm your host, Shelly Houser.
Join us for real conversationsand no nonsense talk from
everyday people withdisabilities, living their most
independent everyday lives.
Tune in for the latest newssurrounding accessibility and
independence, whereconversations aren't dis and
(00:25):
stories that need to be toldaren't missed.
So let's talk.
Shelly (00:32):
Welcome back folks.
I'm your host Shelly Houser.
And today is part two of myinterview with Doug Goist
talking about disabilityemployment.
Doug, welcome back to the show,
Doug (00:44):
Shelly.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me,
Shelly (00:49):
Doug.
You've worked for the NationalIndustries for the Blind in out
of Virginia and NSITE for thelast 11 years.
What's your personal goal andmission with the work that you
do?
Doug (01:01):
Thanks Shelly.
That my, my, uh, personalmission thankfully syncs up with
both NIBS mission and NSITE'smission and, and that is, uh,
creating or helping not directlycreating, but helping create
success stories.
(01:22):
Um, I'll give you a quickexample.
We had one, uh, gentleman nearwhen I first started at NIB.
He was in the program that I washelping, uh, run for both the
department of defense, militaryand so forth.
So what basically, what, whatthis program was doing is doing
(01:43):
is, uh, club was in contractsfor the government.
So, you know, crossing the Ts,doting the I's and reconciling
numbers and so forth.
Anyway, this gentleman wasworking at a front desk and he
was basically doing a kind oflike just working reception.
There's nothing wrong with that,but his, uh, skill level was way
above that he was legally blind,uh, impaired and was connected
(02:05):
with a component of Boeing.
And I, in fact, just heard fromhim after all these years, a
couple weeks ago, and he isdoing tremendously well in
Boeing.
So getting those success storiesand hearing his bosses and his
bosses boss saying how wonderfulhe is as an employee.
(02:25):
That is what drives me becausehonestly the struggles that back
in our day, way back, it, it was, um, it was a lot of struggle.
It was a lot of getting doorsclosed in your face and not
there, there really were noresources that I was aware of,
like for employment.
So seeing these, um, talented,very talented individuals a lot,
(02:46):
as you mentioned before, we hadpeople with PhDs master's
degrees, 20 years, experiencemovers and shakers and so forth
and helping them on a path toget back in the game.
So to speak back in theworkforce and being productive
is, is really the most benefit Iget.
It's like, if I can, if I canhelp someone cut the pain
(03:08):
in the cut corners and, and fasttrack to getting on, you know,
with your career in life andeverything else, then that's,
that's all the, uh, benefit thatI could ever, you know, know
want.
Shelly (03:20):
Then you've succeeded in, in your mission.
Doug (03:22):
We have a long way to go, but I
I, uh, yeah, every day we, everyday we try to find new
opportunities.
We're we're training, Ciscocertified network associates for
cybersecurity.
It, we're doing HR recruiting,sourcing.
We're looking in supply chaintraining.
We're working with Google givingscholarships for it, help desk
(03:42):
support and project management.
So we're trying everything to,uh, get folks, you know, the
skills they need, especially,and the, and the opportunity
with our corporate customers,
Shelly (03:53):
Just putting that seed of inquisitiveness in their
minds as employers and showingthem the possibilities of what
can be done.
It, you know, I know the ADA'sbeen out 31 years and we're
still chipping away at it.
But if we look back at where wewere 31 years ago, we have come
a long way.
Like you said, you, you have tolook at the positive and say,
(04:15):
okay, it's is it perfect rightnow?
No, but is it a heck of a lotbetter than it was in the 60s
and the 70s when centers forindependent living was still
being developed?
Heck yeah, we're getting there.
We talked about how people areunderemployed with disabilities.
And can you tell our listenerswhy it's so important and what
(04:36):
society as a whole can do tocreate a more inclusive, social
model, not just employment, butin society, in, in general to
kind of, when they talk aboutdiversity and inclusion, they
also think firsthand think toadd disabilities into that mix?
Doug (04:57):
Yeah.
It's absolutely it needs, itneeds be in the framework or at
least within the, the sphere ofsomebody's, um, whether it's
their mind or their process or,or what have you.
In other words, you know,there's this concept of
universal design.
It it's very important.
Shelly, You, you know, this it'sfar as, uh, accessible life, you
(05:22):
know, social life events,buildings.
When cities, uh, what have you,they're doing curb cutouts, you
know, don't just do one curbcutout that goes in the middle
of the intersection.
You know,
bit more.
And then, you know, you havetruncated domes, they're called
the little, the bumps that, uh,person that uses a white cane.
(05:43):
Like I do can feel that thatthat's marks the street
crossing.
So that's, that's just theinfrastructure side of it.
But even with new buildings anddesigners and architects, you
know, NRB, our headquarters isit's pretty spectacular.
We hired a, uh, totally blindarchitect, professional
architect, Chris Downey, out ofSan Francisco, who, who lost his
(06:05):
vision at 40 and went totallyblind and re revived his career
as a, as an architect, he's donelike Duke University eye center.
But anyway, he came in and hehelped helped us with boost
sticks.
We have talking elevators, wehave, uh, a really nice roof
area that we installed aartificial grass surface with a
(06:25):
trash can, so people can relievetheir dogs in the wintertime or,
or whenever.
And they don't have to go acrossthe street, find a patch of
grass or what have you.
But anyway, so, you know,that's, that's unusual,
obviously.
So socially when you'repurchasing things, when you're
setting up things, designingthings, whether you're running a
business, whether you're gettingorganizing social events, you
(06:46):
know, have that in the back ofyour mind, or, or just keep it
in mind that there, there are, Ithink your number was 43 million
in the US.
Anyway, I think it's like abillion worldwide people with
disability that they're, they'revery loyal.
Whether if you're business orloyal customers, if, if they're,
if it's a society they're gonnabe resilient and, and productive
(07:07):
because they're the best, um,advocates, Cuz they're gonna
talk to their friends and talkto their friends and their
family members and those type of, uh, situations.
And it, you know, in the, in andout of the workplace, if you
make, let's just say technology,uh, whether it's a kiosk or
whether it's a, like, I just sawthat, um, Freedom Scientifics
working with, uh, McDonald's,they're having these, uh,
(07:28):
checkout kiosks where it's selforder, they're already working
to make them accessible.
So a lot of times these, theseaccessibility features tools,
designs, they're they helpeveryone.
They help people who areelderly, who, um, maybe have a
hard time singing, you know,they don't have a, uh, the
latest and assistive techsoftware built into their, you
(07:50):
know, phones or what have you.
But if you make it, you know,accessible to people, uh, with
vision impairment, wheelchairs,people who are hearing impaired,
it, it just helps everyone andit doesn't have to be expensive.
Shelly (08:05):
Very good.
Yeah.
So the pandemic, we are stillsort of at the tail end of it.
Uh, it's, it's quieted down, butmillions of us able bodied or
disabled workers we're workingfrom home and did this shift
employers and hiring manager'sperspective on hiring with
(08:28):
people with disabilities nowthat they see it can be done,
has it shifted their mindset on,on this opportunity for us?
Doug (08:38):
It definitely has shifted for their entire workforce
sighted and other and non didnon-disabled, disabled because
they quickly realized havingpeople work from home.
I know we served serviced, uh,one of our customers at NIB, uh,
was a military air force andthey had to, um, distribute
(09:02):
10,000 laptops.
Um, so what, what they discover,not them, but just in general,
uh, corporate society hasdiscovered is you find out your
gaps really quickly when youhave everybody working remotely
Yeah.
So, yeah, and it's, and, and forpeople, you know, with blindness
(09:23):
it's, it's what systems maywork, what, what may not work.
And I'm talking in the greater,uh, private sector, you know,
that, that if somebody was usedto coming and working on a
couple processes and nowsuddenly they're setting up
remote meetings and everything,well, you know, you wanna use
tools like zoom, which isincredibly, uh, accessible and,
(09:45):
o r Microsoft teams, and be ableto understand that not all
technology is going to havethese t ool, these features
built into them.
So i t's, it's a lot of thatkind of vetting and, a nd
validating and assessing, Ithink a challenge is you still
want, when you're interviewingsomebody, you still want to have
that person in front of you.
(10:05):
I think all of us k ind o f, uh,,,, w ould, would you agree
that i t j ust, you just k ind of get a different vibe, u m, j
ust being around somebody and then through zoom?
Shelly (10:17):
their energy or, or lack oftheir energy.
And it's just, it's just adifferent feeling, being human
to human.
And I was just actually sayingto somebody yesterday that we
almost have to reconfigure howto be social again with one
another.
Because of pandemic, we, we wereforced to not be social and hang
(10:40):
out with the water cooler or goout to lunch with our coworkers
for over a year.
And now we have to get back tothat.
Um, but there's definitely somebenefits
Doug (10:50):
And that I, I, I agree.
It's, it's really importantbecause, um, I made the joke
with another, a blind employeethat, uh, when the, when the, uh
, quarantine started that, uh,oh, well, you know, its like,
well, when you lose eyesight,we're kind of used to self
quarantine because that's kind
experience because you know, youlose your car and you can't get,
(11:10):
maybe you're living in a citywith no transportation.
So you kind of do feelquarantined, but um, to your
point that the importance isespecially with disabilities,
it's very easy to get back slideinto being, uh, less social
let's just say maybe because,well, maybe that restaurant's
too challenging to go to, ormaybe that, that office, I, I
(11:32):
would just rather be in my safebubble versus putting yourself
out there because you, in somecases in ambassador or pioneer,
when you're the only disabledperson walking or interacting
with cited, coworkers,colleagues, friends, and so
forth that, uh, you, you wannamaintain that close connection
with people.
And so it's, it's a trade off.
(11:53):
I, I think it could be done bothways.
So, you know, having thatinteraction, I think's
important.
And sometimes in meetings whereyou're brainstorming, it's
sometimes it's, it's great tosit around the table and
brainstorm with people versushitting your mute button and
then
So like you said, around thewater cooler, lunchroom, those
(12:13):
type of things, the good news istechnology because of the
quarantine or the pandemic hasreally advanced a advanced the
capability of doing a lot morework from home.
Shelly (12:26):
Yeah.
Because we can connect.
So it's all great.
What are some common stigmasthat you would like employers t
o k now about persons withdisabilities and employment?
Doug (12:39):
Um, I, I think the, the main probable stigma is with,
um, maybe a hiring manager thathas never interviewed somebody
with a disability is what theymight see in the, you know, past
films or they just have no, uh,understanding, uh, that they
(13:00):
kind of jumped to a conclusionbefore really digging into it.
Just not keeping that open mind.
And it's, it's not to criticizesomebody for doing that because
it's totally understandable.
But for instance, I was stunnedafter I lost vision, how many
people were yelling at me andtalked, yelling very loudly and
(13:20):
slowly at me.
And I'm, I'm like, I'm standingright here.
Right, right.
Hear you just fine.
can hear
Shelly (13:29):
I can hear you fine.
And you're yelling.
Doug (13:30):
Yes.
And they think, yeah, theythink, you know, you're hearing
must be, you must have superhearing.
It's, it's not it's because yourvision is taken away that your
brain is searching for a soundinformation, things like that.
But as far as that stigma isthat what I addressed earlier
is, well, you're, you're blind.
How, how are you going to use acomputer in this job?
(13:53):
And I just don't see how that'sgonna, how that's gonna work.
And is this gonna be expensivebecause we don't have a lot of
money in, in 20 years ago, 30years ago.
Yeah.
It was expensive to get a soundcard and, and get new speaking
technology and all the, but nowit's built into apps, phone
apps, speaking technology,magnification it's, it's built
(14:16):
into computers.
It's built in a lot of devicesthat it's, you know, for under
$3,000, you could have somebodycompletely set up,
Shelly (14:26):
But things like a standing, uh, workbench, my IT
guy has one and he sometimesopts to stand.
Um, just my other coworker, justbringing in her, seeing eye dog
is her reasonable accommodationthat doesn't cost them anything.
She has a very small littleoffice and the dog is, is in her
space and, you know, doesn'tbother people.
(14:48):
And, uh, it, it could be a, evenjust a, a specialized chair for
somebody with chronic backissues, uh, that we had a
coworker here.
So reasonable accommodations.
And like you said earlier,eyeglasses, hearing aids.
These are all assistivetechnology that can be low cost.
And I, I challenge any employeror hiring manager to, to reach
(15:11):
out to Doug and his team andlearn more about how to be less
afraid of these outdated stigmasthat really are just that
they're assumptions that arereally, I don't know, Doug, do
you agree?
They're, they're really, for themost part, not even true.
Doug (15:26):
They are, they aren't true.
And you know, again, in the caseof blindness, if his, if a
hiring manager, you know, waswearing glasses, I'm in a
position where I'm notfortunately not, um,
interviewing for work, but youknow, you know, if I were really
bold and brash, you would, youwould just wanna say, I noticed
you wear glasses.
Well, you know, can you readwithout them?
(15:48):
And if they say, no, it's like,well now are you unemployable?
Because if, if you say you'renot, that's exactly what that's
exactly what, um, people withvision impairments and other
disabilities, it's just, we'redoing things differently.
The, the resilience aspect of itis huge.
And the retention is I, I forgotthe numbers, but it's 60, 70%
(16:09):
retention versus the job jumpersmaybe who don't have
disabilities.
That company has an accessibleonboarding system and
interviewing system and, or theyneed help.
They can reach out to insightobviously, but disabled
employees are gonna know it.
It's a great place to work, andthey're gonna tell their friends
and, and they're gonna, they'regonna stay with the, all that
brain knowledge is gonna bethere.
Shelly (16:32):
Finally, where can listeners find more about you
and NSITE on social media?
Where are you located at?
Doug (16:40):
Well, I would, uh, recommend both, you know,
listeners and, and alsocorporate customer, potential
customers, o r even justcorporate listeners in general.
O ur website is NSITE.
org, and that's s pelled N SITE.
org.
And, u h, job seekers click onNSITE.
(17:01):
org and look at, u h, i nsight connect j ob org.
And you can upload your resume.
You can p ut your profile inthere and look for jobs a nd
corporate customers can also useo nsite connect and post j obs.
So we work with them as well.
That's the main entry point forus as far as the, u m, web
activity, u h, social media, Iwould, I would say I'm available
on LinkedIn, Douglas last n ameGOIST you c an see some of my
(17:25):
information and I'm happy totalk with anyone who, again,
either needs some guidance onhow to, how to work with people
with disabilities or somebodywho's struggling, or somebody
who's a, that h as somequestions on, Hey, I, I don't
know where to start.
Can you, you know, g ive m e aadvice.I'm happy to do that.
Those would be the main, mainones I would say.
(17:45):
I'm not too active on othersocial ones.
Shelly (17:47):
But yeah, in your spare time, Iwanted to bring up quickly, you
are part of the Team USA icehockey team as well, right?
Doug (17:57):
Yes.
Um, and, uh, I appreciate youmentioned that because, uh, I'm
really proud of my teammates.
They come from all over thecountry and they're all, all
ages.
I mean, I, from teenage on upand, um, you know, we, we played
Team Canada for the first timein 2019, and those games can be
(18:17):
found in other games on YouTube.
If you look up USA or Team USAversus Team Canada just don't
look at the score.
Uh, we've been, we've been, um,a team now for three or years.
We unfortunately the pandemiccanceled.
We're supposed to play TeamCanada two weeks ago in St.
Louis and it was canceled.
But, um, yeah, this it's soblind hockey is a thing.
(18:42):
And, um, it uses a steel puckthat has eight metal ball
bearings in it, it rattles, andit makes a lot of noise.
It's about, size of a p ot pie.
The, the nets are the same widthas a n NHL net.
I t's just a foot shorter.
So, and I'm the goalie.
So I, I try to keep that steelpuck, that's moving at 40, 50
miles an hour from< laugh>getting into the net.
(19:04):
And, u h, it's, it's reallyamazing.
U m, a nd people with differentvision impairments and t hat I
could go into a whole otherexplanation about how that
breaks down, like the, thehelmets a re different colors
based on your level of vision.
So, and there's a point system
Shelly (19:23):
I'm gonna have to have you back when your team goes to
the next, uh, Olympics in thewinter, and we'll, we'll have
you and your team mates onanother day to explain the
breakdown of all of that.
How's that sound?
Doug (19:34):
It's good.
We're, we're working on the 2026Paralympics, but Finland,
Russia, Sweden, and the UK nowhave blind hockey teams.
And we're looking to get more.
So, uh, hopefully in 2026, but,but when we face Canada, I'll
definitely let you know.
Shelly (19:51):
Thank You.
So, Doug, thank you so much foryour time and attention and all
this wonderful information andcrushing those stigmas, cuz
they're so important.
Those thank you for your timeand being here on the show
today,
Doug (20:01):
Shelly, I really appreciate it on, on behalf of
my teammates at NSITE andNational Industries for the
Blind.
We really, we really appreciate,uh, you getting the word out
there and um, we're always,we're always here to help.
Shelly (20:12):
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
And to my listeners worldwide,thank you so much for listening
today and make sure you hit thatlike and subscribe button so you
never miss an opportunity tolisten to DisAbility Talks.
Outro w/ Music (20:47):
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of
disability talks, wanna keep theconversation going then visit
our website at abilitiesinmotion.org or connect with us on
social media.
And remember don't dis myability.
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