October 8, 2021 • 39 mins
There are 200 types of Dwarfism in the world, Sofiya, Nic and their spouses ironically all have different forms and share with us their challenges as new parents and their extensive body of work in and out of the theater. Listen in to hear more for Dwarfism Awareness Month.
To find out more about our guest, visit these links:
Website: https://www.sofiyacheyenne.com/ https://www.nicnovicki.com/
Easter Seals Film Challenge: https://disabilityfilmchallenge.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sofiyacheyenne/ https://www.instagram.com/nicnovicki/
Twitter: @SofiyaCheyenne @NicNovicki
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SofiyaCheyenne https://www.facebook.com/nic.novicki
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:03):
Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by
Abilities in Motion.
I'm your host, Shelly Houser.
Join us for real conversationsand no nonsense talk from
everyday people withdisabilities,l iving their most
independent everyday lives.
Tune in for the latest newssurrounding disability,
accessibility and independence.
(00:23):
Where conversations aren'tdissed and stories that need to
be told aren't missed.
So let's talk.
Shelly (00:30):
Welcome back to DisAbility Talks.
I'm your host, Shelly Houser andtoday's guests are actors,
producers, comedians, advocates,educators, and parents.
And they're here to give us alittle look into their great big
world.
Please welcome to our studio,Sophia Cheyenne, and Nic
Novicki.
Sofiya (00:47):
So excited to be here.
Nic (00:49):
Hey, it's great that, you know, that's the first time I'm
a newer parent, than Sofiya, butthat's the first time I've had
credits and then and parents inthe same kind of thing.
Shelly (01:01):
So you're a little, you're a little guy, right?
You have a little boy?
Nic (01:03):
U h, no, I have a daughter and Sophia has a, has a boy.
Shelly (01:09):
So Sophia your son is a little over a year?
Sofiya (01:12):
That's right.
My son's name is Logan and he's14 months old now.
And it's, it's really amazing tosee him explore it at the house
and also try and make sure thathe's not going to get hurt in
the process!
Shelly (01:26):
Yes, good luck with that.
Yeah.
And Nic, y our, your daughter isfor about four months or so?
Nic (01:31):
That's right.
I have a four month old daughterand, uh, she's already in the
arranged marriage to Sophia'sson.
So....
( laughter).
Shelly (01:41):
Tradition!
Sofiya (01:45):
We love the idea.
We talk about it as parents allthe time back and forth.
Oh my gosh.
They'll be friends, no matterwhat, f or sure!.
Nic (01:53):
Yeah, it is so fun though, to have, uh, you know, to, to go
through the new parentingprocess with, with Sofiy a and
her husband, Clint, you know,just to have that support system
of people that are going throughit or been through everything.
And so literally my wife isliterally calling Sofiya all the
time and w hen should I get withthis or that?
And y ou k now, i t's f un.
Sofiya (02:14):
We relied on each other a lot in, throughout our
pregnancies and this new parentphase.
It's, it's been really nice.
Shelly (02:22):
I wanted to start off and have one or both of you
explaine because I know there'sdifferent types of dwarfism, but
can you explain to me whatexactly for our listeners
dwarfism is?
Nic (02:33):
Yeah.
The, um, Sofiya cut me off ifyou want to jump in, but uh, you
know, dwarfism, there's over 200kinds of dwarfism.
Um, and I havepseudoachondroplasia dwarfism.
Uh, my wife has achondroplasiadwarfism, which is the most
(02:53):
common, kind of dwarfism.
I believe 80 something percentdwarfism is comprised by
achondroplasia and then the restof 200 kinds, you know, makes up
that small population, includingpseudo achondroplasia and
Sophia?\
Sofiya (03:11):
Yeah.
I have a rare form for short, wecall it SEDC type dwarfism, but
it means Spondyloepiphysealdysplasia, congenital type
dwarfism.
Nic (03:24):
You see why I wanted her to set that up?
What that title was?
(laughter)
Shelly (03:30):
You took the easy part of the question.
Good job!( laughter)
Sofiya (03:32):
So that's my title.
It does fall in that 20% whereit's a more rare form.
My husband has diastrophicdysplasia, which is a different
form of dwarfism.
And my son, our son will have,he has the same type of dwarfism
as me and dwarfism.
I mean, if I were to give it adefinition, you know, people
have short stature generallyunder 4'9," 4 foot nine inches
(03:56):
is a genetic condition.
So it is caused by genedifferences in gene changes that
happened and various genes areresponsible for kind of the
various types of dwarfism.
So it's really fascinating onceyou get into like the genealogy
of it, but we're very diversecommunity.
There's so many different typesof dwarfism.
(04:18):
Um, and yeah, it's funny whenNick and his wife and my husband
and I hang out, we always talkabout how the four of us each
have a different type ofdwarfism, which is a really
rare, so, um, it's super fun?
Nic (04:34):
No, it's, uh, but it is, it is really cool though, that
there are so many differentkinds of, of dwarfism.
And actually both of us, we metour significant others at Little
People of America nationalconferences.
So there's a, uh, gathering ofpeople that get together and do
kind of social activities andalso sports.
(04:56):
So the community is able to kindof intermingle and in multiple
ways.
Shelly (05:02):
What are some common stigmas, that there is about
dwarfism that you guys want toset the record straight on?
Sofiya (05:08):
Well, I would, I mean, I would just start off by saying
that when I was born, my parentsdidn't have any exposure to
dwarfism.
They didn't really know whatdwarfism was and all they did
know was Snow White and theSeven Dwarves,Willy Wonka and
the Chocolate Factory, theWizard of Oz.
(05:30):
And so I think when I think ofstigma, I definitely think of
sort of how Hollywood has playeda role in that, for sure.
And how there's been sort ofthis lack of humanity, seeing of
humanity in little people anddwarfism that, you know, we are
people, but a lot of times inHollywood, we've dressed up in
costume where we played thesevery like fantasy sorts of
(05:51):
roles, which are awesome.
And we should be able to playthose too.
But I think a stigma that I likeI face as an artist all the time
is sort of that combating withthat.
And just that it's, it's stillokay to, to not see us as like
mothers and fathers and justpeople.
Shelly (06:07):
Nick, what are your thoughts?
Nic (06:09):
Yeah.
I mean, I think I agree withwhat Sofiya had to say.
And I think a lot of, I wouldsay the biggest stigma issue is
just a lack of exposure.
So in the history of dwarfism,we've always been seen in
different areas, but I thinkit's, you know, dwarfism is
(06:30):
pretty rare.
I think it's one in 40,000.
So growing up, I didn't seeanybody that was like me.
And, you know, there were so fewdepictions of little people in
the media and I think thatthat's changing a lot.
You're seeing, you know, PeterDinklage.
I mean really, I mean, he's, youknow, won Emmys and Golden
Globes and, you know, we've seenso many great three-dimensional
(06:54):
roles of little people and, andfrankly, even reality shows, you
know, that would be kind of, Iguess, demystified, uh,
dwarfism.
And so I think that there's alot more exposure, but I think
in reality, uh, the biggeststigma I think that people have
is there's a big difference, youknow, in reality, it's just,
(07:17):
we're just shorter.
So I think, I think that societybeyond just the little people
and in disability as a whole, Ithink that, uh, now, uh, people
are just so much more open than,than I think they were in, in
previous years,
Shelly (07:34):
You know, with the passing of Verne Troyer who
played mini me in Austin Powersfilms.
He, I thought he had a reallygreat career.
I thought he did a lot ofthings, but he didn't feel he
could do like a lead action filmthat he wasn't getting cast for
those kinds of things.
Do you see the shift inHollywood?
Nic (07:56):
Yeah, I mean, I, I dedicate the majority of my time to is I
created the Disability FilmChallenge, which is a film
competition that helps getpeople with disabilities
involved in the entertainmentindustry.
I created that nine years ago,partnering with Easter Seals,
the nation's largest disabilityservices organization.
And we've had hundreds of filmscreated and countless success
(08:16):
stories.
And these are people withdisabilities creating their own
content, putting themselves outthere.
And I've seen firsthand, youknow, studios, networks,
producers, show runners,reaching out on a weekly basis
and looking to hire people withdisabilities, both in front of
and behind the camera.
(08:36):
Um, Sofiya, you know, has landeda recurring role on Loudermilk
and the Farrelly brothers.
And, you know, there's a lot ofmomentum, you know, as you said,
there, between the Ruderman'sbetween, between so many,
between Coda just coming out,uh, which is, you know, one
Sundance and a deaf cast.
(08:57):
So I think society wants to seethemselves represented.
And then it's just leading theway for people with disabilities
that want to tell their ownstories too, to be creating
their own content, to be, do, beputting themselves in the
position to get their ownopportunities.
And I think then the networksand the studios are realizing
(09:19):
that they haven't been asinclusive enough and that
they're, you know, frankly,missing out on a huge
demographic that wants to seethemselves represented.
So I think it's not just, youknow, we want to do it because
it's, it's the right thing todo.
I think it's a smart thing to dobecause one, the people are
winning awards through usingdisability centric, storylines,
(09:42):
and two, there's just a lot oftalent out there.
Sofiya (09:45):
I'm excited too.
I mean, I, I definitely see ashift happening and I think that
there are definitely good peoplein Hollywood that want to, you
know, show the diversity of theworld and bring people that
access that they need.
I think that there is a lot offear around that acceptance and
(10:05):
I think there's, um, that's thedisconnect sometimes that's
still going on, but I definitelypersonally know people in the
industry that are reallyfighting for the change and
truly like, you know, I alwaysthink about like the young me
and now my, my son watches TV,uh, you know, these little kid
(10:27):
shows and there are more diversecharacters on these kids' shows
like more than I ever hadgrowing up, you know?
Um, and, and talking aboutdifferent cultures and seeing
kids in wheelchairs or any sortsof diversity, that's so
important.
So it's happening.
It's just like really slow.
( laughter) But I think I doreally do feel very optimistic
(10:51):
for the future.
And, um, and just to touch onreally quickly about Verne
Troyer and sort of like themental health of that as I think
little people and people wouldwork in the industry do have a,
you know, there's a stigma therespecifically for our community.
I think that, you know, we, thisis my personal opinion, but I
(11:12):
think we command a space whenwe're in it.
Are our bodies in space reallymeans something.
And so I think that, um,sometimes that's a little too
intense for the camera, youknow, but it's important and it
can make real impactful change.
Shelly (11:28):
Do you find that there's a mental health crisis in your
community?
I know I've spoken to somepersons of color and they have,
you know, it's taboo to talkabout mental health in the black
and colored communities.
And do you find that it's arampant issue in your community?
Nic (11:47):
I think, you know, to me, I think mental health is not
talked about enough in general,whether you're talking about a
little people, community, thedisability community.
So many friends of mine, youknow, you talk about the
quarantine, you know, uh, thepandemic still happening and
people staying indoors.
Those that don't havesignificant others there by
(12:07):
themselves.
I mean, mental health is a hugeissue.
That is, is a taboo subject, nomatter whether you're talking
about little people or peoplewith disabilities.
Sofiya (12:19):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I definitely agree.
I think mental health needs tobe talked more.
I, I support any mental healthadvocate I see on the internet
or people that are trying to dothat work.
I'm always supporting that work.
It's so important.
That's a stigma in and ofitself, obviously.
And I do, I think that ourcommunity struggles a lot in,
(12:40):
for many reasons, like not evenjust those that are in the
entertainment industry, but, um,sort of like what I was saying.
I think that little people canbe bullied a lot and mistreated
a lot more so than maybe more sothan other sorts of disabilities
or other sorts of, um,adversities.
(13:02):
And I think that does play areal big toll.
And currently our community isstruggling and going through a
lot, talking aboutpharmaceutical companies and
this weird sort of new eugenicsconversation that's happening in
our community, which is reallytough.
And I think people are having ahard time.
It's an issue that isn'taddressed as much as I'd like to
(13:24):
see it addressed.
But that's the case in a lot ofareas when with a lot of people,
like Nic said.
Shelly (13:30):
So, we could just mention it today and do our
part.
Sofiya (13:32):
Exactly!( laughter).
Shelly (13:32):
What were you going to say Nic?
Nic (13:35):
No.
And I think that there'ssomething else that's
interesting about dwarfism as awhole is, you know, when you
talk about disability, the, thestats are according to the CDC,
One in four Americans has someform of disability at 61 million
Americans.
And the vast majority of thosedisabilities are, are, you know,
(13:57):
cognitive or invisibledisabilities when it comes to
being a little person, you know,there is no hiding what you are,
you are, we are very much, uh,Hey, that's, uh, you know, we're
out there.
Sofiya (14:12):
We're here!(laughter)
Nic (14:12):
So I think, I think that that's, that adds another layer
that depending on whether you,whether you were born with uh...
,
Sofiya (14:20):
a limb difference,
Nic (14:22):
Well, yeah, it does.
It doesn't matter what limbdifference or why, you know, you
end up becoming paralyzed orwheelchair user later in life.
You know, I think that withdwarfism, this is something too
where it's everybody kind ofcopes with their disability and
their differences in differentways, you know, as being a
(14:44):
little person.
I think that, you know, at timesit is cool that now we're in a
space in a time, you know, Ithink even the public are coming
up and they're being more, Iguess, open and curious.
And, and I think that they'velearned proper terminology more.
(15:05):
And so I think that that's goingto help.
And so I think that that'sanother layer of just being a
little person is, is beingaccepting yourself.
And whether you're a littleperson and you have a disability
or you don't, that just ends upbeing a big part of life.
(laughter)
Shelly (15:21):
You almost have to find your sense of humor with it and
find your strength.
Do you think maybe that's whyyou guys got into comedy and
acting?
Cause you had to find your senseof humor in life.
Nic (15:30):
I mean, for me, a hundred percent, you know, I had my
mechanism to get out of trouble.
It was always to make a joke or,you know, using comedy to also
disarm situations.
And so I think that that's justa part of who I am.
I didn't look at it like this ismy career in entertainment.
It was just a part of who I amas a person.
(15:52):
And I think probably to anextent it was a, you know,
deflection, uh, but, but theother part was, is just
something fun to do.
Sofiya (16:03):
I totally agree.
But I think it's funny in myjourney.
I would definitely say it wasbeing a performer is sort of a
coping mechanism for me.
Um, I, I didn't realize thatthat's what it was until I was
older as well, but I think itwas just an acceptance of my
body.
I had, you know, a hard timewith, as a kid.
And so being on stage, beingable to tell a story or feel a
(16:27):
character and live, you know,through an empathetic lens in
that way, just healed me and hasalways healed me and always made
me feel more secure in my ownbody.
Um, so I think that that'sdefinitely been part of it being
in the arts and that's sort ofeventually shifted into advocacy
for me because I realized, well,I'm in these spaces and people
(16:50):
are asking questions and I needto advocate for myself.
Like no one else is going to doit for me.
So sort of how I've come on thisjourney to where I am now.
Shelly (17:01):
It is, it really is because I think if, as somebody
in the disability community,it's my, my responsibility to
help crush those stigmas.
And this podcast is just one waythat I can do it by letting you
guys tell your stories andeverybody else is telling their
stories.
So, thank you.
Sofiya (17:17):
Yeah.
Nic (17:18):
You know, I think it's important though, that you bring
up t oo about this podcast andwhat you're doing.
I mean, I think there's so muchpride in disability a nd I for
sure have so much pride in mydwarfism and in the community,
Sofiya talked about, you know,the pharmaceutical companies and
(17:39):
how much this is a sensitiveissue.
You know, I love my height andyou know, my wife w ho i s also
a little person and thecommunity and Sofiya and her
husband is my best f riendssince we were kids.
And I think there's so muchbeauty in our community and in
disability in general.
(17:59):
And so I think that that'ssomething that I've seen more
and more and spend somethingthat I've focused a lot of my
energy on through the filmchallenge and through my
activism.
But, you know, and then the lastthing I want to say is we are
different, you know, cause Iknow y ou w ere, you were
talking about, well, this isdifferent than my point of view
(18:21):
and dwarfism and y ou k now,limb difference or amputee or
wheelchair user a re alldifferent.
But I do feel like we're all inthe same club.
Like if I go into a restaurantand see somebody else who's
blind o r y ou k now, or deaf orin a wheelchair and missing a
leg, I'm like, there's a littlebit of like a wink t here.
I'm like, Hey, what's up?
(18:41):
How you been?
Shelly (18:42):
Do we have a universal sign for,
Nic (18:46):
We should!
Shelly (18:46):
for like you see somebody else?
I think we should all come upwith something.
Nic (18:51):
I mean, it's, I've always felt that even as a kid, like
before, you know, any of thisstuff, it would just like, you
just end up getting nudgedtogether with like a family
friend where like," Hey, this ismy Uncle Jimmy, you guys should
get to know each other!"
Sofiya (19:06):
Always.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
(laughter) So let me ask you what appropriate terms
are acceptable and why?
Sofiya (19:13):
That's a good question.
Nic (19:16):
Well, I think, you know, to be honest, like I think it's,
you know, the, the history, uh,words change to, you know,
Little People of America wasfounded as Midgets of America,
which was the term that was usedin a different generation.
I don't really ever, I'm notsomebody that gets offended to
(19:36):
though.
So I just kind of went along.
It was announced as LittlePeople of America and I, you
know, to me, that's the acceptedterm, dwarfism, you know,
Sofiya, I dunno.
What, what do you think?
Sofiya (19:50):
I would agree?
I would, I would say littleperson is the most universal and
dwarfism is as well.
I know, I know little peoplethat don't like to be called a
dwarf or dwarfism.
I love that word.
I am dwarf pride all the way Ihave dwarfism.
That's what I have.
(20:10):
But I think that word seen maybea little more medically, which
is why perhaps folks don't loveit, but that is an acceptable
term for sure.
And so as a little person or alittle people, and I just want
to say that, you know, for anylisteners, I know I've heard
from non-disabled people,average height people.
"Oh, well, calling you a littleperson feels mean feels
(20:33):
derogatory to me".
And I'm like, I get that.
I mean, I guess if that's howsomeone feels then sure.
But at the end of the day, ifthat is what the community wants
to be called, then that's whatthe community wants to be
called.
You know?
So I think little person isacceptable.
It doesn't bother us.
And if it bothers other folks,you know, I think we need to
(20:55):
investigate what that means.
You know what I mean?
But.
Nic (21:00):
Yeah,(laughter) Yeah, people!
Sofiya (21:01):
I don't know, you know, like I think that it's, it might
be too much of a label forpeople that, that really
identifies who we are.
And I know that mistakenlysomeone is talking about a child
and would say, oh, a littleperson, you know?
And I think that there's acrossover there.
So words aren't perfect.
I always say like, call me by myname, ask me what my name is.
(21:26):
You can't go wrong.
You know?
And I, and I feel like that's agreat rule of thumb to follow to
.
Shelly (21:31):
And with that, we're going to take a commercial break
and get back after the break
AD (21:34):
Abilities in Motion is a Pennsylvania based nonprofit
organization dedicated tohelping individuals with
disabilities live their lives ontheir own terms.
Abilities in Motion, strides toeliminate psychological
stereotypes, physical barriers,and outdated attitudes that
prevent social and civicinclusion as well as promote the
independent living movement toempower, educate, and advocate
(21:55):
for individuals withdisabilities.
For more information aboutprograms and services Abilities
in Motion provides call 610-376-0010, or visit our website at
www.abilitiesinmotion.org.
Shelly (22:11):
Welcome back listeners.
This is Shelly and I'm here withSofiya Cheyenne and Nic Novicki
as parents, advocates,educators, and comedians and
producers and actors.
Gosh, did I miss anything?
Sofiya (22:22):
That's a long list.
It's enough!(laughter)
Shelly (22:27):
(laughter) It's not actually everything.
I just gotta like cut it shortbecause you guys are so involved
in so many things.
It's incredible.
Sofiya.
I want to start with you.
You've done a lot of advocacyand a lot of education.
So you were a definite hit forme to, to be on the show here.
A part of you, you have twoorganizations that you work with
and I wanted you to addressthose and tell us more about the
(22:48):
work that you do in the theaterand out of the theater.
Sofiya (22:52):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
And yes, we do.
We wear many hats, Nic and I,and switching gears, even in
this, in this podcast, I have, Ihave been doing education and
advocacy work for a while.
I started after college.
I started out as a teachingartist and that was really the
(23:13):
beginning of me, you know,officially being into, you know,
public school system and workingwith kids.
And from there eventually myadvocacy and my dwarfism kind of
blended.
And then that became part of myeducation work as well.
So I have been working with theDwarf Artist Coalition for the
last six years.
(23:33):
I'm slowly transitioning out ofthat because I'm now going to be
the Inclusion Director forLittle People of America, which
is a big, exciting, ambitiousrole that I'm taking on.
But the work with the ArtistsCoalition was amazing and it
started out really from nothing.
It was just, just a few peoplegathering and it was a very
(23:54):
dormant group of people.
But the goal is to fosterartists, new artists find
artists that have dwarfism inthe country and big goals around
the world and have them connectwith each other and network
collaborate, create together.
So we actually made a projectthat I ended up just calling the
(24:14):
telephone project.
Cause it's lots of, um, artsspaces do something like this,
where it's just a curation ofart.
It can be any kind of art.
It can be spoken, word poetry,it can be a dance, it can be
music, singing.
And we are inspired.
It's like a lineup andeveryone's inspired by the
person before them.
(24:35):
So there's a lineup of artists.
Everyone does their work withintwo weeks.
And by the end of it, you havethis wonderful show.
That's got a bunch of new piecesof work.
And a lot of the work that wedid in our artistry was about
four or five identity and about,you know, our, how we want to be
seen in the world or how we'reseeing or how we feel we're
perceived by the world.
(24:56):
And I think it's been reallyhealing and exciting for the
community.
Um, we've grown so much fromjust three people hanging with
me in that first meeting to likea minimum of 50 artists now and
like people about a hundred, 150people coming to our events.
So it's been fantastic andthat's still very circulated
(25:17):
within the Little People ofAmerica community, which is
which isn't all of little peopleand it's not part of the larger
disability arts community, youknow?
So those are big goals that Ithink are coming, but it's been
great.
And outside of that, a lot ofthe advocacy work I've done, I
go to schools and I do talks andI actually talk about dwarfism
(25:39):
or I talk about disability, myhusband and I will do it
together.
And a lot of times we've done itfor young kids and we'll use the
children's book, I've, you know,create scenes and we like re
re-enact like a bully scene.
And then we talk about it and,you know, kind of dissect that a
little bit.
So it's really good work.
It's I feel like combining myartistry and my passion for
(26:01):
advocacy has been like thebiggest gift I could have given
myself.
And I did it by accident.
And, and so it's, it's beenfantastic.
And I just always want to makesure that people walk away
knowing that, you know, peoplewould dwarfism or just like
anyone else and that we havedifferent needs, but everyone
does.
And so it's a matter of, youknow, making friends and not
(26:22):
bullies and bringing, uh,bringing that artistry about and
empowering those dwarf artiststo tell their stories and shine
their light.
So that's, that's a lot of thework that I've done and that's
the only two hats out of five.
(laughter)
Shelly (26:40):
Nick you've taken on more serious roles in film and
television.
You've also produced numerousproductions and are currently on
a comedy tour right now.
Tell us more about your body ofwork.
Nic (26:50):
Sure.
So I started doing stand-up, uh,really young.
That was just my first week ofcollege, but I started as a kid
doing speeches for Little Peopleof America and for the Dwarf
Athletic Association of America.
And I would do kind offundraiser speeches, but I would
always start with a joke and I'dbe like, you know, address the
(27:13):
situation.
You know, if there was a podiumand I couldn't reach it, I would
make a joke about it so that theaudience would listen to me.
But also I just, it would justinstinctually do it.
And I basically, I was doing aversion of standup comedy before
I knew what standup comedy was.
Uh, you know, I, I started toact when I was in middle school.
(27:34):
And the reason why I startedacting was because I couldn't
play sports anymore in mycommunity.
I got, you know, I'm 3"10".
So I just found a new hobby andthat was acting, that that was
my passion and my goal.
And I continued to do it, but Ilearned pretty early in my
career that I had to be incharge of all aspects.
(27:56):
So I had to learn how to writeand produce and create my own
work.
If I wanted to play the rolesthat I wanted to play by having
real, you know, I always tellpeople whether you have a
disability or you don't, youneed to be in charge of your own
career.
Hollywood's not waiting for you.
You need to get out there andcreate your own projects and
(28:17):
your own work, because this is amedium where people want to look
to see what else you've done.
And I think this is, this isreally hard because as people
with disabilities, many times,we're having a hard time at the
starting point, getting thosefirst jobs.
But the more you can do on yourown, the more opportunities
(28:39):
you're going to have to whereyou're going to be spotted wait.
Cause cause those opportunitieswill come up for you.
You know, now with a cell phoneor a DSLR camera, you can create
in a way that was frankly somuch harder when I started out
and I was like, I needed to, youknow, I'm, I'm sounding like I'm
110, but I was like,"When I shotit, there was a, you know, you
had to have a big film reel!"And I, you know, but if you
(29:01):
literally had to have a littlemini tapes and it was a much
tougher process to, to make yourown content.
Shelly (29:08):
Explain to our listeners more about your Easter Seals
Disability Film Challenge.
Cause you're both involved withthis.
Nic (29:15):
Yeah.
So nine years ago I was lookingaround.
I was like, why aren't morepeople with disabilities
creating their own work?
So I created the Disability FilmChallenge, which is a film
competition that started out asa weekend where you need to have
somebody with a disability infront of, or behind the camera.
And you make a film that doesn'thave to do with disability.
(29:36):
I mean, it doesn't have to berelated to the storyline.
You just have to have somebodywith a disability in front of
her, behind the camera.
And really from that first time,the industry started reaching
out and then the communitypeople with disabilities were
like, when is the next one?
And so it kind of just startedto build and build.
And you know, I partnered withEaster Seals, Southern
(29:59):
California Easter Seals is thelargest disability services
organization.
And so it's now the Easter SealsDisabilityFilm Challenge.
And we've had hundreds of filmscreated from all over the world.
This last year, we had a hundredfilms that were created, uh,
including Sofiya shot a filmfrom New York, which, uh, her
cute and amazing son does alittle cameo in it, possibly
(30:22):
steals the show, even though shegives us an amazing performance.
Um,
Sofiya (30:27):
Oh no, It was all him!
Nic (30:27):
(Laughter) But, but the coolest thing about this is, you
know, many times we talk in thecommunity about what we want.
We want more inclusion.
We want to be more represented.
Well with the film challenge,this is something that becomes
tangible because you can't justtalk about what you want, but
you have to make a film.
(30:48):
But most importantly, it it's ajob opportunity because the
industry are watching thesefilms.
And you never know when it, whena project comes out
specifically, something thathappened a couple of years ago,
Peter Farrelly, who, you know,the Farrelly brothers have
created Dumb and Dumber andSomething About Mary.
(31:08):
And they've really been hugeadvocates for hiring people with
disabilities throughout theirentire career.
So, uh, in 2018, Peter Farrelly,who has been a film challenge
mentor, and somebody who I'vebecome friends with had this
great role for a little personactress.
And he said, do you have anyideas of anybody?
(31:28):
Do you know anybody?
And I said, well, here's 10films that stared little people
from the film challenge.
And he auditioned all thosefactors and Sofiya got, um, you
know, multiple season recurringrole based on her talent.
And she, she was ready for thatopportunity and the fact that he
was able to look through and hewas able to see her film and,
(31:50):
and then that became a jobopportunity for her to audition.
What's so cool about the filmchallenge is it's been something
that has bridged communities andhas allowed people to network
amongst each other.
So that's what I'm kind of mostproud of.
The film challenge is somethingthat, you know, I work on it all
(32:12):
the time and it's a hugepassion, but when you see people
getting jobs from it, I mean, itjust, it's, it's something I
think I'm most proud of! Alsocome see me on tour still, still
tour.
Shelly (32:25):
And where's your tour at now?
And where are you headed?
Nic (32:27):
So I'm going to be opening up for Nate Bergatzy and we're
doing a lot of dates.
I'm doing other shows outside ofN ate, but w e'll be on the West
coast i n October.
And yeah, and then just excitedto, you know, other other p
rojects and other things comingout!
Sofiya (32:45):
And I just wanted to say that he filled a void that was
existing, that people withdisabilities,actors with
disabilities, creativedirectors, wanted an opportunity
to create.
And he really just did that.
He just made it happen and said,so can you! And that's why
everyone has jumped on andjumped on this train that I
(33:05):
think is so fantastic.
I'm so grateful that I've gottento professionally work through
that experience, but more, evenmore so is the connections with
other disabled artists,creatives, and allies in the
community that are working withus, you know, that want to tell
our stories or just want to bepart of the cause.
(33:26):
Like Nic said, it doesn't haveto be about disability.
That it's more about thatcollaboration.
Cause that's, that's like thereal change that we're talking
about.
It's that connection that it'sgoing to help disrupt ableism
and, and help us, you know, comeout of that.
I remember when it started, Iremember it in New York being
like six people around aconference table and it's grown
(33:48):
so much and it's just beenamazing to see the growth.
And I can't believe I did a filmlast year with my baby.
And that was like a moment forme with COVID and everything
going on, that I was like, I'mstill an actor, I'm still a
creative person.
I made a film.
And that really helped me, youknow, personally and the film
(34:10):
challenge gave me an opportunityto do that.
You can't make something up likethat.
You know, that's just realimpactful change that I think is
happening.
Like one story at a time.
So huge fan obviously of thefilm challenge, but just that,
like, it's just an, it's a realopportunity for people.
So anyone that's listening nowthought about it, do it, you
(34:32):
should do it!
Shelly (34:34):
In wrapping it up.
So you guys, each are newparents.
What do you wish for yourchildren and their future with
dwarfism?
Do you think it's going to havebarriers and stigmas when they
get to be parents and your age?
Nic (34:48):
Well, I mean, for me, this is the interesting thing.
We actually don't know if ourdaughter, um, has dwarfism yet.
Um, because my kind of dwarfismis unique and that, uh, my
parents didn't know I was alittle person until I was two or
almost three.
So, um, partially that answercould be different depending on
(35:09):
if she's a little person or ifshe's not, you know, as I said,
society, I feel like is justmore open and I just hope that
she's able to just embraceeverything and just kind of
enjoy life and learn how to, youknow, whether it's us or whether
it's herself, you know, brushoff, you know, comments or
reactions, which are natural.
(35:31):
You know, other kids, kids don'talways know.
I mean, it's, it's instinctualfor a kid to be like, what's,
what's the deal?
Why is this?
I mean, they are, you know, nofilter talking things out.
So, uh, I think it's importantto not over shelter, you know,
to let things happen and toteach or just be comfortable in
those moments.
Sofiya (35:52):
I would, I would agree.
I think it's, it's such a bigquestion that does change every
day in my brain and in my heart,my thoughts about it.
But I think that I would ideallylove the world to be a perfect
place for my son, you know?
But it's not going to be.
And that's because as humans, asa human society, you know, I
(36:16):
think we're working on beingbetter, but it, it does take
time, change, takes time andawareness takes time.
And so I just hope that I'm agood model for him on how to
deal with hard situations and,um, how to, you know, be fully
self accepting of himself, butthat, you know, listening to me
(36:38):
and my husband and sharing withLogan on our experience and how
we've overcome and how we cankeep pushing for the change and
he's going to rock at it!(laughter)
Shelly (36:48):
So one final question, where can our listeners follow
and connect and learn more aboutyou?
Sofiya (36:54):
Yeah.
Thank you.
I mean, my, you can definitelyalways tune in and be up-to-date
on me on my website.
Um, it's my name?
Www.SofiyaCheyenne.
S O F I Y A C H E Y E N N E.COM.
(37:15):
But yeah, you can contact methrough my website and, u m, I
don't have any shows coming up,but possibly working on a
musical that I've been with fora while, Other World, but some
good things coming for sure.
And, u m, and also I do do a lotof consultant work with arts
organizations.
So if that's anything thatpeople are interested in, yeah.
(37:38):
Give me a shout.
Shelly (37:39):
Perfect.
Nick, where are you landingthese days?
Nic (37:42):
So you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook at
Nic Novicki, u h, it's Nic withno K so N IC, N O V I C K I.
And you can learn about theEaster Seals Disability Film
Challenge, go dodisabilityfilmchallenge.
com, and you can follow us@disabilityfilmchallenge.
(38:07):
And we have a lot of differentworkshops and seminars that we
do.
And also if you follow me, youcan find out if I'm coming to a
city near you or any otherupdates about my career.
Shelly (38:17):
Thank you so much.
Sofiya and Nic for being on theshow.
I really appreciate your timeand educating me and all of our
listeners worldwide more ondwarfism for dwarfism awareness
month in October.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Nic (38:29):
Thank you so much.
Sofiya (38:31):
Thank you so nice to meet you, Shelly.
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, it was really great.
And to our listeners, thanks forlistening worldwide to us.
And don't forget to hit thatLike and Subscribe button, so
you never miss an opportunity tohear DisAbility Talks.
Outro (39:08):
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of DisAbility Talks
want to keep the conversationgoing then visit our website at
AbilitiesinMotion.org, orconnect with us on social media
and remember don't dis myability.
Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by
Abilities in Motion.
I'm your host, Shelly Houser.
Join us for real conversationsand no nonsense talk from
everyday people withdisabilities,l iving their most
independent everyday lives.
Tune in for the latest newssurrounding disability,
accessibility and independence.
(00:23):
Where conversations aren'tdissed and stories that need to
be told aren't missed.
So let's talk.
Shelly (00:30):
Welcome back to DisAbility Talks.
I'm your host, Shelly Houser andtoday's guests are actors,
producers, comedians, advocates,educators, and parents.
And they're here to give us alittle look into their great big
world.
Please welcome to our studio,Sophia Cheyenne, and Nic
Novicki.
Sofiya (00:47):
So excited to be here.
Nic (00:49):
Hey, it's great that, you know, that's the first time I'm
a newer parent, than Sofiya, butthat's the first time I've had
credits and then and parents inthe same kind of thing.
Shelly (01:01):
So you're a little, you're a little guy, right?
You have a little boy?
Nic (01:03):
U h, no, I have a daughter and Sophia has a, has a boy.
Shelly (01:09):
So Sophia your son is a little over a year?
Sofiya (01:12):
That's right.
My son's name is Logan and he's14 months old now.
And it's, it's really amazing tosee him explore it at the house
and also try and make sure thathe's not going to get hurt in
the process!
Shelly (01:26):
Yes, good luck with that.
Yeah.
And Nic, y our, your daughter isfor about four months or so?
Nic (01:31):
That's right.
I have a four month old daughterand, uh, she's already in the
arranged marriage to Sophia'sson.
So....
( laughter).
Shelly (01:41):
Tradition!
Sofiya (01:45):
We love the idea.
We talk about it as parents allthe time back and forth.
Oh my gosh.
They'll be friends, no matterwhat, f or sure!.
Nic (01:53):
Yeah, it is so fun though, to have, uh, you know, to, to go
through the new parentingprocess with, with Sofiy a and
her husband, Clint, you know,just to have that support system
of people that are going throughit or been through everything.
And so literally my wife isliterally calling Sofiya all the
time and w hen should I get withthis or that?
And y ou k now, i t's f un.
Sofiya (02:14):
We relied on each other a lot in, throughout our
pregnancies and this new parentphase.
It's, it's been really nice.
Shelly (02:22):
I wanted to start off and have one or both of you
explaine because I know there'sdifferent types of dwarfism, but
can you explain to me whatexactly for our listeners
dwarfism is?
Nic (02:33):
Yeah.
The, um, Sofiya cut me off ifyou want to jump in, but uh, you
know, dwarfism, there's over 200kinds of dwarfism.
Um, and I havepseudoachondroplasia dwarfism.
Uh, my wife has achondroplasiadwarfism, which is the most
(02:53):
common, kind of dwarfism.
I believe 80 something percentdwarfism is comprised by
achondroplasia and then the restof 200 kinds, you know, makes up
that small population, includingpseudo achondroplasia and
Sophia?\
Sofiya (03:11):
Yeah.
I have a rare form for short, wecall it SEDC type dwarfism, but
it means Spondyloepiphysealdysplasia, congenital type
dwarfism.
Nic (03:24):
You see why I wanted her to set that up?
What that title was?
(laughter)
Shelly (03:30):
You took the easy part of the question.
Good job!( laughter)
Sofiya (03:32):
So that's my title.
It does fall in that 20% whereit's a more rare form.
My husband has diastrophicdysplasia, which is a different
form of dwarfism.
And my son, our son will have,he has the same type of dwarfism
as me and dwarfism.
I mean, if I were to give it adefinition, you know, people
have short stature generallyunder 4'9," 4 foot nine inches
(03:56):
is a genetic condition.
So it is caused by genedifferences in gene changes that
happened and various genes areresponsible for kind of the
various types of dwarfism.
So it's really fascinating onceyou get into like the genealogy
of it, but we're very diversecommunity.
There's so many different typesof dwarfism.
(04:18):
Um, and yeah, it's funny whenNick and his wife and my husband
and I hang out, we always talkabout how the four of us each
have a different type ofdwarfism, which is a really
rare, so, um, it's super fun?
Nic (04:34):
No, it's, uh, but it is, it is really cool though, that
there are so many differentkinds of, of dwarfism.
And actually both of us, we metour significant others at Little
People of America nationalconferences.
So there's a, uh, gathering ofpeople that get together and do
kind of social activities andalso sports.
(04:56):
So the community is able to kindof intermingle and in multiple
ways.
Shelly (05:02):
What are some common stigmas, that there is about
dwarfism that you guys want toset the record straight on?
Sofiya (05:08):
Well, I would, I mean, I would just start off by saying
that when I was born, my parentsdidn't have any exposure to
dwarfism.
They didn't really know whatdwarfism was and all they did
know was Snow White and theSeven Dwarves,Willy Wonka and
the Chocolate Factory, theWizard of Oz.
(05:30):
And so I think when I think ofstigma, I definitely think of
sort of how Hollywood has playeda role in that, for sure.
And how there's been sort ofthis lack of humanity, seeing of
humanity in little people anddwarfism that, you know, we are
people, but a lot of times inHollywood, we've dressed up in
costume where we played thesevery like fantasy sorts of
(05:51):
roles, which are awesome.
And we should be able to playthose too.
But I think a stigma that I likeI face as an artist all the time
is sort of that combating withthat.
And just that it's, it's stillokay to, to not see us as like
mothers and fathers and justpeople.
Shelly (06:07):
Nick, what are your thoughts?
Nic (06:09):
Yeah.
I mean, I think I agree withwhat Sofiya had to say.
And I think a lot of, I wouldsay the biggest stigma issue is
just a lack of exposure.
So in the history of dwarfism,we've always been seen in
different areas, but I thinkit's, you know, dwarfism is
(06:30):
pretty rare.
I think it's one in 40,000.
So growing up, I didn't seeanybody that was like me.
And, you know, there were so fewdepictions of little people in
the media and I think thatthat's changing a lot.
You're seeing, you know, PeterDinklage.
I mean really, I mean, he's, youknow, won Emmys and Golden
Globes and, you know, we've seenso many great three-dimensional
(06:54):
roles of little people and, andfrankly, even reality shows, you
know, that would be kind of, Iguess, demystified, uh,
dwarfism.
And so I think that there's alot more exposure, but I think
in reality, uh, the biggeststigma I think that people have
is there's a big difference, youknow, in reality, it's just,
(07:17):
we're just shorter.
So I think, I think that societybeyond just the little people
and in disability as a whole, Ithink that, uh, now, uh, people
are just so much more open than,than I think they were in, in
previous years,
Shelly (07:34):
You know, with the passing of Verne Troyer who
played mini me in Austin Powersfilms.
He, I thought he had a reallygreat career.
I thought he did a lot ofthings, but he didn't feel he
could do like a lead action filmthat he wasn't getting cast for
those kinds of things.
Do you see the shift inHollywood?
Nic (07:56):
Yeah, I mean, I, I dedicate the majority of my time to is I
created the Disability FilmChallenge, which is a film
competition that helps getpeople with disabilities
involved in the entertainmentindustry.
I created that nine years ago,partnering with Easter Seals,
the nation's largest disabilityservices organization.
And we've had hundreds of filmscreated and countless success
(08:16):
stories.
And these are people withdisabilities creating their own
content, putting themselves outthere.
And I've seen firsthand, youknow, studios, networks,
producers, show runners,reaching out on a weekly basis
and looking to hire people withdisabilities, both in front of
and behind the camera.
(08:36):
Um, Sofiya, you know, has landeda recurring role on Loudermilk
and the Farrelly brothers.
And, you know, there's a lot ofmomentum, you know, as you said,
there, between the Ruderman'sbetween, between so many,
between Coda just coming out,uh, which is, you know, one
Sundance and a deaf cast.
(08:57):
So I think society wants to seethemselves represented.
And then it's just leading theway for people with disabilities
that want to tell their ownstories too, to be creating
their own content, to be, do, beputting themselves in the
position to get their ownopportunities.
And I think then the networksand the studios are realizing
(09:19):
that they haven't been asinclusive enough and that
they're, you know, frankly,missing out on a huge
demographic that wants to seethemselves represented.
So I think it's not just, youknow, we want to do it because
it's, it's the right thing todo.
I think it's a smart thing to dobecause one, the people are
winning awards through usingdisability centric, storylines,
(09:42):
and two, there's just a lot oftalent out there.
Sofiya (09:45):
I'm excited too.
I mean, I, I definitely see ashift happening and I think that
there are definitely good peoplein Hollywood that want to, you
know, show the diversity of theworld and bring people that
access that they need.
I think that there is a lot offear around that acceptance and
(10:05):
I think there's, um, that's thedisconnect sometimes that's
still going on, but I definitelypersonally know people in the
industry that are reallyfighting for the change and
truly like, you know, I alwaysthink about like the young me
and now my, my son watches TV,uh, you know, these little kid
(10:27):
shows and there are more diversecharacters on these kids' shows
like more than I ever hadgrowing up, you know?
Um, and, and talking aboutdifferent cultures and seeing
kids in wheelchairs or any sortsof diversity, that's so
important.
So it's happening.
It's just like really slow.
( laughter) But I think I doreally do feel very optimistic
(10:51):
for the future.
And, um, and just to touch onreally quickly about Verne
Troyer and sort of like themental health of that as I think
little people and people wouldwork in the industry do have a,
you know, there's a stigma therespecifically for our community.
I think that, you know, we, thisis my personal opinion, but I
(11:12):
think we command a space whenwe're in it.
Are our bodies in space reallymeans something.
And so I think that, um,sometimes that's a little too
intense for the camera, youknow, but it's important and it
can make real impactful change.
Shelly (11:28):
Do you find that there's a mental health crisis in your
community?
I know I've spoken to somepersons of color and they have,
you know, it's taboo to talkabout mental health in the black
and colored communities.
And do you find that it's arampant issue in your community?
Nic (11:47):
I think, you know, to me, I think mental health is not
talked about enough in general,whether you're talking about a
little people, community, thedisability community.
So many friends of mine, youknow, you talk about the
quarantine, you know, uh, thepandemic still happening and
people staying indoors.
Those that don't havesignificant others there by
(12:07):
themselves.
I mean, mental health is a hugeissue.
That is, is a taboo subject, nomatter whether you're talking
about little people or peoplewith disabilities.
Sofiya (12:19):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I definitely agree.
I think mental health needs tobe talked more.
I, I support any mental healthadvocate I see on the internet
or people that are trying to dothat work.
I'm always supporting that work.
It's so important.
That's a stigma in and ofitself, obviously.
And I do, I think that ourcommunity struggles a lot in,
(12:40):
for many reasons, like not evenjust those that are in the
entertainment industry, but, um,sort of like what I was saying.
I think that little people canbe bullied a lot and mistreated
a lot more so than maybe more sothan other sorts of disabilities
or other sorts of, um,adversities.
(13:02):
And I think that does play areal big toll.
And currently our community isstruggling and going through a
lot, talking aboutpharmaceutical companies and
this weird sort of new eugenicsconversation that's happening in
our community, which is reallytough.
And I think people are having ahard time.
It's an issue that isn'taddressed as much as I'd like to
(13:24):
see it addressed.
But that's the case in a lot ofareas when with a lot of people,
like Nic said.
Shelly (13:30):
So, we could just mention it today and do our
part.
Sofiya (13:32):
Exactly!( laughter).
Shelly (13:32):
What were you going to say Nic?
Nic (13:35):
No.
And I think that there'ssomething else that's
interesting about dwarfism as awhole is, you know, when you
talk about disability, the, thestats are according to the CDC,
One in four Americans has someform of disability at 61 million
Americans.
And the vast majority of thosedisabilities are, are, you know,
(13:57):
cognitive or invisibledisabilities when it comes to
being a little person, you know,there is no hiding what you are,
you are, we are very much, uh,Hey, that's, uh, you know, we're
out there.
Sofiya (14:12):
We're here!(laughter)
Nic (14:12):
So I think, I think that that's, that adds another layer
that depending on whether you,whether you were born with uh...
,
Sofiya (14:20):
a limb difference,
Nic (14:22):
Well, yeah, it does.
It doesn't matter what limbdifference or why, you know, you
end up becoming paralyzed orwheelchair user later in life.
You know, I think that withdwarfism, this is something too
where it's everybody kind ofcopes with their disability and
their differences in differentways, you know, as being a
(14:44):
little person.
I think that, you know, at timesit is cool that now we're in a
space in a time, you know, Ithink even the public are coming
up and they're being more, Iguess, open and curious.
And, and I think that they'velearned proper terminology more.
(15:05):
And so I think that that's goingto help.
And so I think that that'sanother layer of just being a
little person is, is beingaccepting yourself.
And whether you're a littleperson and you have a disability
or you don't, that just ends upbeing a big part of life.
(laughter)
Shelly (15:21):
You almost have to find your sense of humor with it and
find your strength.
Do you think maybe that's whyyou guys got into comedy and
acting?
Cause you had to find your senseof humor in life.
Nic (15:30):
I mean, for me, a hundred percent, you know, I had my
mechanism to get out of trouble.
It was always to make a joke or,you know, using comedy to also
disarm situations.
And so I think that that's justa part of who I am.
I didn't look at it like this ismy career in entertainment.
It was just a part of who I amas a person.
(15:52):
And I think probably to anextent it was a, you know,
deflection, uh, but, but theother part was, is just
something fun to do.
Sofiya (16:03):
I totally agree.
But I think it's funny in myjourney.
I would definitely say it wasbeing a performer is sort of a
coping mechanism for me.
Um, I, I didn't realize thatthat's what it was until I was
older as well, but I think itwas just an acceptance of my
body.
I had, you know, a hard timewith, as a kid.
And so being on stage, beingable to tell a story or feel a
(16:27):
character and live, you know,through an empathetic lens in
that way, just healed me and hasalways healed me and always made
me feel more secure in my ownbody.
Um, so I think that that'sdefinitely been part of it being
in the arts and that's sort ofeventually shifted into advocacy
for me because I realized, well,I'm in these spaces and people
(16:50):
are asking questions and I needto advocate for myself.
Like no one else is going to doit for me.
So sort of how I've come on thisjourney to where I am now.
Shelly (17:01):
It is, it really is because I think if, as somebody
in the disability community,it's my, my responsibility to
help crush those stigmas.
And this podcast is just one waythat I can do it by letting you
guys tell your stories andeverybody else is telling their
stories.
So, thank you.
Sofiya (17:17):
Yeah.
Nic (17:18):
You know, I think it's important though, that you bring
up t oo about this podcast andwhat you're doing.
I mean, I think there's so muchpride in disability a nd I for
sure have so much pride in mydwarfism and in the community,
Sofiya talked about, you know,the pharmaceutical companies and
(17:39):
how much this is a sensitiveissue.
You know, I love my height andyou know, my wife w ho i s also
a little person and thecommunity and Sofiya and her
husband is my best f riendssince we were kids.
And I think there's so muchbeauty in our community and in
disability in general.
(17:59):
And so I think that that'ssomething that I've seen more
and more and spend somethingthat I've focused a lot of my
energy on through the filmchallenge and through my
activism.
But, you know, and then the lastthing I want to say is we are
different, you know, cause Iknow y ou w ere, you were
talking about, well, this isdifferent than my point of view
(18:21):
and dwarfism and y ou k now,limb difference or amputee or
wheelchair user a re alldifferent.
But I do feel like we're all inthe same club.
Like if I go into a restaurantand see somebody else who's
blind o r y ou k now, or deaf orin a wheelchair and missing a
leg, I'm like, there's a littlebit of like a wink t here.
I'm like, Hey, what's up?
(18:41):
How you been?
Shelly (18:42):
Do we have a universal sign for,
Nic (18:46):
We should!
Shelly (18:46):
for like you see somebody else?
I think we should all come upwith something.
Nic (18:51):
I mean, it's, I've always felt that even as a kid, like
before, you know, any of thisstuff, it would just like, you
just end up getting nudgedtogether with like a family
friend where like," Hey, this ismy Uncle Jimmy, you guys should
get to know each other!"
Sofiya (19:06):
Always.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
(laughter) So let me ask you what appropriate terms
are acceptable and why?
Sofiya (19:13):
That's a good question.
Nic (19:16):
Well, I think, you know, to be honest, like I think it's,
you know, the, the history, uh,words change to, you know,
Little People of America wasfounded as Midgets of America,
which was the term that was usedin a different generation.
I don't really ever, I'm notsomebody that gets offended to
(19:36):
though.
So I just kind of went along.
It was announced as LittlePeople of America and I, you
know, to me, that's the acceptedterm, dwarfism, you know,
Sofiya, I dunno.
What, what do you think?
Sofiya (19:50):
I would agree?
I would, I would say littleperson is the most universal and
dwarfism is as well.
I know, I know little peoplethat don't like to be called a
dwarf or dwarfism.
I love that word.
I am dwarf pride all the way Ihave dwarfism.
That's what I have.
(20:10):
But I think that word seen maybea little more medically, which
is why perhaps folks don't loveit, but that is an acceptable
term for sure.
And so as a little person or alittle people, and I just want
to say that, you know, for anylisteners, I know I've heard
from non-disabled people,average height people.
"Oh, well, calling you a littleperson feels mean feels
(20:33):
derogatory to me".
And I'm like, I get that.
I mean, I guess if that's howsomeone feels then sure.
But at the end of the day, ifthat is what the community wants
to be called, then that's whatthe community wants to be
called.
You know?
So I think little person isacceptable.
It doesn't bother us.
And if it bothers other folks,you know, I think we need to
(20:55):
investigate what that means.
You know what I mean?
But.
Nic (21:00):
Yeah,(laughter) Yeah, people!
Sofiya (21:01):
I don't know, you know, like I think that it's, it might
be too much of a label forpeople that, that really
identifies who we are.
And I know that mistakenlysomeone is talking about a child
and would say, oh, a littleperson, you know?
And I think that there's acrossover there.
So words aren't perfect.
I always say like, call me by myname, ask me what my name is.
(21:26):
You can't go wrong.
You know?
And I, and I feel like that's agreat rule of thumb to follow to
.
Shelly (21:31):
And with that, we're going to take a commercial break
and get back after the break
AD (21:34):
Abilities in Motion is a Pennsylvania based nonprofit
organization dedicated tohelping individuals with
disabilities live their lives ontheir own terms.
Abilities in Motion, strides toeliminate psychological
stereotypes, physical barriers,and outdated attitudes that
prevent social and civicinclusion as well as promote the
independent living movement toempower, educate, and advocate
(21:55):
for individuals withdisabilities.
For more information aboutprograms and services Abilities
in Motion provides call 610-376-0010, or visit our website at
www.abilitiesinmotion.org.
Shelly (22:11):
Welcome back listeners.
This is Shelly and I'm here withSofiya Cheyenne and Nic Novicki
as parents, advocates,educators, and comedians and
producers and actors.
Gosh, did I miss anything?
Sofiya (22:22):
That's a long list.
It's enough!(laughter)
Shelly (22:27):
(laughter) It's not actually everything.
I just gotta like cut it shortbecause you guys are so involved
in so many things.
It's incredible.
Sofiya.
I want to start with you.
You've done a lot of advocacyand a lot of education.
So you were a definite hit forme to, to be on the show here.
A part of you, you have twoorganizations that you work with
and I wanted you to addressthose and tell us more about the
(22:48):
work that you do in the theaterand out of the theater.
Sofiya (22:52):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
And yes, we do.
We wear many hats, Nic and I,and switching gears, even in
this, in this podcast, I have, Ihave been doing education and
advocacy work for a while.
I started after college.
I started out as a teachingartist and that was really the
(23:13):
beginning of me, you know,officially being into, you know,
public school system and workingwith kids.
And from there eventually myadvocacy and my dwarfism kind of
blended.
And then that became part of myeducation work as well.
So I have been working with theDwarf Artist Coalition for the
last six years.
(23:33):
I'm slowly transitioning out ofthat because I'm now going to be
the Inclusion Director forLittle People of America, which
is a big, exciting, ambitiousrole that I'm taking on.
But the work with the ArtistsCoalition was amazing and it
started out really from nothing.
It was just, just a few peoplegathering and it was a very
(23:54):
dormant group of people.
But the goal is to fosterartists, new artists find
artists that have dwarfism inthe country and big goals around
the world and have them connectwith each other and network
collaborate, create together.
So we actually made a projectthat I ended up just calling the
(24:14):
telephone project.
Cause it's lots of, um, artsspaces do something like this,
where it's just a curation ofart.
It can be any kind of art.
It can be spoken, word poetry,it can be a dance, it can be
music, singing.
And we are inspired.
It's like a lineup andeveryone's inspired by the
person before them.
(24:35):
So there's a lineup of artists.
Everyone does their work withintwo weeks.
And by the end of it, you havethis wonderful show.
That's got a bunch of new piecesof work.
And a lot of the work that wedid in our artistry was about
four or five identity and about,you know, our, how we want to be
seen in the world or how we'reseeing or how we feel we're
perceived by the world.
(24:56):
And I think it's been reallyhealing and exciting for the
community.
Um, we've grown so much fromjust three people hanging with
me in that first meeting to likea minimum of 50 artists now and
like people about a hundred, 150people coming to our events.
So it's been fantastic andthat's still very circulated
(25:17):
within the Little People ofAmerica community, which is
which isn't all of little peopleand it's not part of the larger
disability arts community, youknow?
So those are big goals that Ithink are coming, but it's been
great.
And outside of that, a lot ofthe advocacy work I've done, I
go to schools and I do talks andI actually talk about dwarfism
(25:39):
or I talk about disability, myhusband and I will do it
together.
And a lot of times we've done itfor young kids and we'll use the
children's book, I've, you know,create scenes and we like re
re-enact like a bully scene.
And then we talk about it and,you know, kind of dissect that a
little bit.
So it's really good work.
It's I feel like combining myartistry and my passion for
(26:01):
advocacy has been like thebiggest gift I could have given
myself.
And I did it by accident.
And, and so it's, it's beenfantastic.
And I just always want to makesure that people walk away
knowing that, you know, peoplewould dwarfism or just like
anyone else and that we havedifferent needs, but everyone
does.
And so it's a matter of, youknow, making friends and not
(26:22):
bullies and bringing, uh,bringing that artistry about and
empowering those dwarf artiststo tell their stories and shine
their light.
So that's, that's a lot of thework that I've done and that's
the only two hats out of five.
(laughter)
Shelly (26:40):
Nick you've taken on more serious roles in film and
television.
You've also produced numerousproductions and are currently on
a comedy tour right now.
Tell us more about your body ofwork.
Nic (26:50):
Sure.
So I started doing stand-up, uh,really young.
That was just my first week ofcollege, but I started as a kid
doing speeches for Little Peopleof America and for the Dwarf
Athletic Association of America.
And I would do kind offundraiser speeches, but I would
always start with a joke and I'dbe like, you know, address the
(27:13):
situation.
You know, if there was a podiumand I couldn't reach it, I would
make a joke about it so that theaudience would listen to me.
But also I just, it would justinstinctually do it.
And I basically, I was doing aversion of standup comedy before
I knew what standup comedy was.
Uh, you know, I, I started toact when I was in middle school.
(27:34):
And the reason why I startedacting was because I couldn't
play sports anymore in mycommunity.
I got, you know, I'm 3"10".
So I just found a new hobby andthat was acting, that that was
my passion and my goal.
And I continued to do it, but Ilearned pretty early in my
career that I had to be incharge of all aspects.
(27:56):
So I had to learn how to writeand produce and create my own
work.
If I wanted to play the rolesthat I wanted to play by having
real, you know, I always tellpeople whether you have a
disability or you don't, youneed to be in charge of your own
career.
Hollywood's not waiting for you.
You need to get out there andcreate your own projects and
(28:17):
your own work, because this is amedium where people want to look
to see what else you've done.
And I think this is, this isreally hard because as people
with disabilities, many times,we're having a hard time at the
starting point, getting thosefirst jobs.
But the more you can do on yourown, the more opportunities
(28:39):
you're going to have to whereyou're going to be spotted wait.
Cause cause those opportunitieswill come up for you.
You know, now with a cell phoneor a DSLR camera, you can create
in a way that was frankly somuch harder when I started out
and I was like, I needed to, youknow, I'm, I'm sounding like I'm
110, but I was like,"When I shotit, there was a, you know, you
had to have a big film reel!"And I, you know, but if you
(29:01):
literally had to have a littlemini tapes and it was a much
tougher process to, to make yourown content.
Shelly (29:08):
Explain to our listeners more about your Easter Seals
Disability Film Challenge.
Cause you're both involved withthis.
Nic (29:15):
Yeah.
So nine years ago I was lookingaround.
I was like, why aren't morepeople with disabilities
creating their own work?
So I created the Disability FilmChallenge, which is a film
competition that started out asa weekend where you need to have
somebody with a disability infront of, or behind the camera.
And you make a film that doesn'thave to do with disability.
(29:36):
I mean, it doesn't have to berelated to the storyline.
You just have to have somebodywith a disability in front of
her, behind the camera.
And really from that first time,the industry started reaching
out and then the communitypeople with disabilities were
like, when is the next one?
And so it kind of just startedto build and build.
And you know, I partnered withEaster Seals, Southern
(29:59):
California Easter Seals is thelargest disability services
organization.
And so it's now the Easter SealsDisabilityFilm Challenge.
And we've had hundreds of filmscreated from all over the world.
This last year, we had a hundredfilms that were created, uh,
including Sofiya shot a filmfrom New York, which, uh, her
cute and amazing son does alittle cameo in it, possibly
(30:22):
steals the show, even though shegives us an amazing performance.
Um,
Sofiya (30:27):
Oh no, It was all him!
Nic (30:27):
(Laughter) But, but the coolest thing about this is, you
know, many times we talk in thecommunity about what we want.
We want more inclusion.
We want to be more represented.
Well with the film challenge,this is something that becomes
tangible because you can't justtalk about what you want, but
you have to make a film.
(30:48):
But most importantly, it it's ajob opportunity because the
industry are watching thesefilms.
And you never know when it, whena project comes out
specifically, something thathappened a couple of years ago,
Peter Farrelly, who, you know,the Farrelly brothers have
created Dumb and Dumber andSomething About Mary.
(31:08):
And they've really been hugeadvocates for hiring people with
disabilities throughout theirentire career.
So, uh, in 2018, Peter Farrelly,who has been a film challenge
mentor, and somebody who I'vebecome friends with had this
great role for a little personactress.
And he said, do you have anyideas of anybody?
(31:28):
Do you know anybody?
And I said, well, here's 10films that stared little people
from the film challenge.
And he auditioned all thosefactors and Sofiya got, um, you
know, multiple season recurringrole based on her talent.
And she, she was ready for thatopportunity and the fact that he
was able to look through and hewas able to see her film and,
(31:50):
and then that became a jobopportunity for her to audition.
What's so cool about the filmchallenge is it's been something
that has bridged communities andhas allowed people to network
amongst each other.
So that's what I'm kind of mostproud of.
The film challenge is somethingthat, you know, I work on it all
(32:12):
the time and it's a hugepassion, but when you see people
getting jobs from it, I mean, itjust, it's, it's something I
think I'm most proud of! Alsocome see me on tour still, still
tour.
Shelly (32:25):
And where's your tour at now?
And where are you headed?
Nic (32:27):
So I'm going to be opening up for Nate Bergatzy and we're
doing a lot of dates.
I'm doing other shows outside ofN ate, but w e'll be on the West
coast i n October.
And yeah, and then just excitedto, you know, other other p
rojects and other things comingout!
Sofiya (32:45):
And I just wanted to say that he filled a void that was
existing, that people withdisabilities,actors with
disabilities, creativedirectors, wanted an opportunity
to create.
And he really just did that.
He just made it happen and said,so can you! And that's why
everyone has jumped on andjumped on this train that I
(33:05):
think is so fantastic.
I'm so grateful that I've gottento professionally work through
that experience, but more, evenmore so is the connections with
other disabled artists,creatives, and allies in the
community that are working withus, you know, that want to tell
our stories or just want to bepart of the cause.
(33:26):
Like Nic said, it doesn't haveto be about disability.
That it's more about thatcollaboration.
Cause that's, that's like thereal change that we're talking
about.
It's that connection that it'sgoing to help disrupt ableism
and, and help us, you know, comeout of that.
I remember when it started, Iremember it in New York being
like six people around aconference table and it's grown
(33:48):
so much and it's just beenamazing to see the growth.
And I can't believe I did a filmlast year with my baby.
And that was like a moment forme with COVID and everything
going on, that I was like, I'mstill an actor, I'm still a
creative person.
I made a film.
And that really helped me, youknow, personally and the film
(34:10):
challenge gave me an opportunityto do that.
You can't make something up likethat.
You know, that's just realimpactful change that I think is
happening.
Like one story at a time.
So huge fan obviously of thefilm challenge, but just that,
like, it's just an, it's a realopportunity for people.
So anyone that's listening nowthought about it, do it, you
(34:32):
should do it!
Shelly (34:34):
In wrapping it up.
So you guys, each are newparents.
What do you wish for yourchildren and their future with
dwarfism?
Do you think it's going to havebarriers and stigmas when they
get to be parents and your age?
Nic (34:48):
Well, I mean, for me, this is the interesting thing.
We actually don't know if ourdaughter, um, has dwarfism yet.
Um, because my kind of dwarfismis unique and that, uh, my
parents didn't know I was alittle person until I was two or
almost three.
So, um, partially that answercould be different depending on
(35:09):
if she's a little person or ifshe's not, you know, as I said,
society, I feel like is justmore open and I just hope that
she's able to just embraceeverything and just kind of
enjoy life and learn how to, youknow, whether it's us or whether
it's herself, you know, brushoff, you know, comments or
reactions, which are natural.
(35:31):
You know, other kids, kids don'talways know.
I mean, it's, it's instinctualfor a kid to be like, what's,
what's the deal?
Why is this?
I mean, they are, you know, nofilter talking things out.
So, uh, I think it's importantto not over shelter, you know,
to let things happen and toteach or just be comfortable in
those moments.
Sofiya (35:52):
I would, I would agree.
I think it's, it's such a bigquestion that does change every
day in my brain and in my heart,my thoughts about it.
But I think that I would ideallylove the world to be a perfect
place for my son, you know?
But it's not going to be.
And that's because as humans, asa human society, you know, I
(36:16):
think we're working on beingbetter, but it, it does take
time, change, takes time andawareness takes time.
And so I just hope that I'm agood model for him on how to
deal with hard situations and,um, how to, you know, be fully
self accepting of himself, butthat, you know, listening to me
(36:38):
and my husband and sharing withLogan on our experience and how
we've overcome and how we cankeep pushing for the change and
he's going to rock at it!(laughter)
Shelly (36:48):
So one final question, where can our listeners follow
and connect and learn more aboutyou?
Sofiya (36:54):
Yeah.
Thank you.
I mean, my, you can definitelyalways tune in and be up-to-date
on me on my website.
Um, it's my name?
Www.SofiyaCheyenne.
S O F I Y A C H E Y E N N E.COM.
(37:15):
But yeah, you can contact methrough my website and, u m, I
don't have any shows coming up,but possibly working on a
musical that I've been with fora while, Other World, but some
good things coming for sure.
And, u m, and also I do do a lotof consultant work with arts
organizations.
So if that's anything thatpeople are interested in, yeah.
(37:38):
Give me a shout.
Shelly (37:39):
Perfect.
Nick, where are you landingthese days?
Nic (37:42):
So you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook at
Nic Novicki, u h, it's Nic withno K so N IC, N O V I C K I.
And you can learn about theEaster Seals Disability Film
Challenge, go dodisabilityfilmchallenge.
com, and you can follow us@disabilityfilmchallenge.
(38:07):
And we have a lot of differentworkshops and seminars that we
do.
And also if you follow me, youcan find out if I'm coming to a
city near you or any otherupdates about my career.
Shelly (38:17):
Thank you so much.
Sofiya and Nic for being on theshow.
I really appreciate your timeand educating me and all of our
listeners worldwide more ondwarfism for dwarfism awareness
month in October.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Nic (38:29):
Thank you so much.
Sofiya (38:31):
Thank you so nice to meet you, Shelly.
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, it was really great.
And to our listeners, thanks forlistening worldwide to us.
And don't forget to hit thatLike and Subscribe button, so
you never miss an opportunity tohear DisAbility Talks.
Outro (39:08):
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of DisAbility Talks
want to keep the conversationgoing then visit our website at
AbilitiesinMotion.org, orconnect with us on social media
and remember don't dis myability.
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