September 21, 2025 • 48 mins
Mischa Smith, from Canada, is a regular sight around Saigon in the craft beer scene as the Sales Director for Pasteur Street Brewing Company.
Mischa started in the craft beer industry in Toronto, Ontario before he packed up and moved to South Korea to teach English for a year that turned into four years and five months.
After a visit to Saigon he fell in love with the city, left Korea and has now been here for 6 years, seeing massive changes in Saigon in a relatively short time.
Mischa shares how he went from drinking beers to pouring them for free to selling Pasteur Beer nationally and internationally and his tips for eating, drinking and living in Saigon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to Discover Vietnam.
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(00:21):
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(01:03):
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Enjoy the episode.
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(01:35):
So with me today on anotherepisode of 7 Million Bikes, a
Saigon podcast, is Misha Smith,the sales director from Pasto
Street Brewing Company.
How are you doing today?
Good, Neil, how are you?
Pretty good, not too bad.
And so uh how's things going atPastou?
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Going well.
Um yeah, we're just about toopen a location in Hawaiian that
we're really excited about, anduh for me, just getting the beer
out to as many people as I canacross the country.
SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
Would you say that you have a dream job?
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
Uh yeah, without without sounding too trite or
cliche about it, uh 100%.
Um yeah, I didn't I didn'trealize that I was training my
whole life for this specificjob.
Uh, but that's how it turnedout.
I I can drink a lot and I cantalk to people and uh I can
convince people that our beerwell I don't have to do much
convincing the beer, the beerkind of speaks for itself.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
It is good beer.
So we'll get into the beer in am in a minute.
So 7 Million Bikes is all aboutpeople who live here, uh both
expats and locals.
Find out a bit about thebackground and then um also find
out like what it's like to livein Saigon, because we've talked
about it on previous episodes.
Saigon's just a crazy place tolive, right?
Absolutely.
And it's got uh it's definitelyunique and it's challenging and
(02:45):
it can be confronting, butultimately I found after three
years it is a good place to be.
So let's go backwards though.
So um you're from Canada.
Yes.
Whereabouts in Canada?
Uh Sarnia, Ontario.
And would you agree thatCanadians are the politest
people on the planet?
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Uh except for me.
I've I've been told uh peoplewho don't know where I'm from,
uh, they sometimes describe meto my friends as oh, he's he's
the most polite American I'veever met.
Um but then people who know mealso he's the rudest Canadian
I've ever met, which I feel likeis about is about right.
That's about on par.
(03:21):
It's an accurate description.
SPEAKER_00 (03:23):
And so uh where you're in the beer industry in
Canada.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Uh my last job in Toronto uh before I moved to
Asia was uh bartending at alittle brew pub called Mill
Street Brewery.
Uh it's not little anymore.
Uh but uh yeah, I was there thefirst summer they were open, and
that's where I really uh got ataste for craft beer.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
I like the pun.
I got a taste for craft beer.
It was unintentional.
I hate puns.
Um I I actually love puns.
I love dad jokes as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
Yeah, that's the Scottish and Irish thing, I
think.
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
I'm like one of those people that likes the
jokes and Christmas crackers.
Well um we can move on quicklyon that at least.
Um what were you doing at thecraft brewery in Canada?
SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
I was I was working uh at the at the pub.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
I was uh serving in bartending.
And so what's the craft beerlike scene like in Canada?
Obviously it's massive inAmerica, the the West Coast it's
huge.
Uh it's new here in Saigon inCanada, how developed is it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
So this is about ten years ago that I was working
there, and uh like I said, itwas the first summer that that
brewery was open, and um it wasstill pretty new uh at the time.
Not not in terms of the length,because it craft beer had been
around for a while, but itwasn't hugely popular until
until around that time.
It was really just starting totake off uh then, at least in
(04:44):
where I was from in in uhOntario.
Um but yeah, now it's obviouslyit's huge.
Ten years later it's the same aseverywhere, you know, the craft
beer takes off everywhere itgoes.
That's true, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
It's like uh just can't once it starts, it can't
stop.
But there's kind of like alimit, right?
Like it it kind of has a bit ofa glass ceiling, doesn't it?
It's never gonna be like ahundred percent craft beer,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
Uh well yeah, of course not.
Unfortunately.
I mean, having having said that,uh we're nowhere near the limit,
either in Saigon or anywhereelse.
I mean you know, Vietnam is is abeer drinking country, and we've
got just a tiny, tiny, tinypercentage of the of the market.
(05:25):
Not just pasture, but craft beerin general.
It's it's such a small piece ofthe pie.
There's so much room to growstill.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
But in America it's kind of topped out almost every.
I think I remember reading aboutthat.
Like the it grew so fast andthen it's kind of now plateaued
a bit.
SPEAKER_02 (05:38):
Sure, you'd have to talk to an American about that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
I'm not I'm not really keyed into the American
craft beer scene.
Because I was uh quite into theso I lived in New Zealand before
here and was really into thecraft beer scene in Wellington,
like it was unbelievable.
Lived in downtown, it was Ithink like six, seven, eight,
maybe ten, I can't remember,like craft beer breweries within
walking distance of my apartmentin downtown Wellington.
(06:03):
And so in Wellington my wife andI we invested in a craft brewery
in New Zealand calledRenaissance or Renaissance,
depending on your pronunciation.
My wife and I would disagree onthat.
And uh we put in a couple ofthousand New Zealand dollars,
partly because if you put in atthat level, you got a free crate
(06:24):
of beer every year.
unknown (06:26):
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
Beauty sweet, that's long-term investment.
Yeah, and uh you know we wantedto be part of it, we wanted to
see it grow, they needed newequipment, things like that.
Anyway, fast forward.
We then end up leaving NewZealand to come to Asia for just
for a year, but we end up beinghere for three years.
So every year we've been givingaway our free crate of craft
beer to our friends, you know,because we get it anyway, but
like, well, you guys can haveit.
(06:48):
And then last year, we startedto get some emails that didn't
look too good, and eventually itwent out of business.
And uh, that's the risk of afree beer for life.
Yeah, my company got uh wentinto insolvency, got liquidated,
all the investors lost themoney.
We got one free crate of beerout of that because we'd been
(07:10):
given the other crate away.
Sure.
Um eventually the company wasbought up, reopened under the
same brand with the same staffin the same premises, all the
investors lost their money.
So we got burned badly on that.
So I don't think we'll beinvesting anytime soon.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
And uh shame because I uh I've got a notch.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
So yeah, I got my fingers burned a little bit by
that.
But yeah, for sure.
Like here, obviously that theit's a tiny piece of the market,
but the reason I brought that upis because I remember going to
the investors' meeting and theywere talking about how in
America it kind of plateaued,but the room for growth in New
Zealand was still huge.
That's why we invest here.
Um but they were saying itprobably will get to a point
where you know it will plateauin each country because the big
(07:55):
guns are so big, and also peoplehave a taste for like the
traditional beers, right?
But obviously here in Vietnamthere's massive, massive room
for growth, right?
Absolutely, yeah.
And there's still more playerscoming into this.
Yeah, for sure.
You guys are doing pretty well,right?
And so things were going allright in Canada.
Then what made you leave Canada?
(08:15):
How did you end up in Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (08:17):
Um, well, I I I got fired from the the brewery that
I was working at.
Um and I'd been out of schoolfor about a year, um, and I just
didn't really want to keep goingthrough the the F and B C and I
worked at a bunch of restaurantswhile I was going through
school.
Um yeah, and I'd thought aboutteaching overseas for a long
(08:39):
time, and the timing was neverright, and then all of a sudden
it just was.
Uh, and I moved to Korea, SouthKorea, uh, for what I thought
was gonna be a year.
I ended up staying for four anda half years.
Um and then I came to Saigon onvacation a couple times while I
was living over there to visitsome friends, and I just fell in
love with Saigon, Vietnam, thecity.
Like I I I knew I knew once Igot here that this is where I
(09:00):
belonged, so went back, finishedmy contract in Korea, and um
yeah, I moved here.
And that's how I got to Saigon.
And so what was it like livingin Korea then?
I visited Korea, but uh I excuseme.
Um I lived in two differentcities, and there were smaller
they weren't like thecountryside, but they were small
(09:20):
cities.
And uh it was an experience.
I I enjoyed it.
I met some of my best friends inthe world there.
Um I I prefer it here.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
What why do you prefer it here then?
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
I just I don't want to say anything bad about Korea.
I was I lived there for a longtime.
Uh but I just Saigon there's somuch more energy, so much more
excitement.
Like you s the the feeling ispalpable when you're here.
Like it's you know, when I wentback after my after my two
visits to Korea and my friendswere like, oh how's Vietnam?
And I was just gushing about it.
I'm like, oh what's so goodabout it?
And I was like, you know, likethe food, the nightlife, the the
(09:53):
people, everything, but likejust the energy.
I just kept saying the energy.
And I couldn't really describeit, but uh all of those friends
who have come to visit me herenow, they as soon as they get
here, they're like, oh, okay, Iget it.
Yeah, like you know, it's it'ssomething that you can't quite
put your finger on.
But the first time I was herefor two weeks, I just had this
goofy grin on my face the wholetime.
I was just so happy.
And I was like, what?
I don't know, that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
I just love it here.
It's definitely an energeticcity, and I think that can be
both negative and positive,right?
Sure.
And so when you come, I think inthe beginning I was the same.
I came for a visit before wecame to live here and just loved
it.
You know, I don't again youcan't really describe it.
It's just it's Vietnam.
Yeah, it's just amazing.
Yeah, I think everybody's thesame that comes here, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:33):
Yeah.
Well, uh you are or you aren't,like, it depends on your
mileage, right?
Like, definitely some people I Ilive with some people in Korea
who had been here and they'relike, oh, you liked Saigon?
I hated it.
And I can understand why someonewouldn't enjoy the city, but
those people are very differentfrom me, personality-wise.
Like, I it's just it suits me toa T.
Like, and you know, when you'vetraveled, like when you've
(10:56):
traveled a bit, you just have acertain feeling about certain
places.
And you and when you get to aplace that that suits your
personality, you know.
Like, you just knowautomatically, like, yeah, this
is me, right here.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
And so, how long after your visit that you you
went back to Korea and you'relike, right, I'm moving to the
second Korea?
SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
Uh well, I I I came back for a second visit just to
make sure.
Uh, because we always joked whenI was living in South Korea, we
always used to joke that uh anytrip out of Korea was the best
trip of your life because you'regetting out of Korea for a bit.
How was Moscow?
Oh, it was great.
It was uh really cold andfantastic.
(11:33):
Um so yeah, no, I came back asecond time just to make sure
that I still felt the same wayand that it wasn't just uh uh
you know like a whatever, like afleeting room.
Like a summer fling room, yeah.
Um and yeah, I felt the same waythe second time.
Uh and then I sort of went back,finished my contract, uh, went
home for a couple months, uh,back to Canada, and then yeah,
(11:55):
moved uh moved here for good.
Been here for almost six yearsnow.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Wow, six years.
So you must have seen so muchchange in the city.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Yeah, well, yeah.
I mean when you when you'rehere, you don't notice it so
much, you know.
If you like if you're here andyou leave and then you come back
six years later, I'm sure itwould be like, oh my god, so
much has changed.
And to a certain extent, I wouldsay the same thing.
Yeah, a lot's changed.
Um but yeah, when you're hereevery day, it's just it's not
it's not as noticeable becauseit's so gradual.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
Um, but of course, yeah, so much has changed in six
years.
Especially in the food andbeverage industry.
I feel eaten in three years I'vebeen here.
Yeah, so much is here now.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
Yeah, no, I was just talking to a couple of uh
friends last night, bar andrestaurant owners, and uh yeah,
we're just talking about I mean,we know we see it.
I don't think the the rest ofthe world has caught on yet that
Saigon has become such a greatfoody city and beer city, and
but uh you know hopefullyeventually people will.
It's I mean it's still a hugetourist destination, but I don't
(12:52):
think people realize how howgreat the Saigon food scene has
gotten yet if you don't live inSaigon.
So it'll be exciting to to seemore and more people coming and
enjoying uh just what an amazingcity it is and what how great
the the food scene has become,like you said.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
I've been really bad in the last kind of year or so
because just eating more andmore Western food and but the
food in Vietnam is amazing likeVietnamese food is so famous and
so good, but I find myself moreand more eating Mexican food all
the time.
I had someone say to merecently, Oh, there's no good
Mexican food in Saigon, and mylike jaw hit the floor.
I was like, wait, what?
Are you kidding me?
I was like, There's so much goodMexican food.
(13:28):
And I won't say the name of theplace, but she'd only been to
one Mexican place and didn'tknow about the rest, and I like
listed them all.
She's now been to nearly all ofthem.
District Federal's her favorite,which I agree is the best,
probably.
Food and the mugs there areamazing.
But yeah, and so I find myselfmore and more just eating
non-Vietnamese food, andsometimes I have to remind
(13:49):
myself and my wife were like,we've got to eat some Vietnamese
food.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
I'm I'm the exact same way.
When I first moved here, I wasjust all street food all the
time, like so delicious.
And it I mean, obviously it'sstill the spoon's still just as
good as it was back then.
Uh but yeah, we're just sospoiled for choices now.
Like, what do you feel like?
Oh, Italian, Mexican, Japanese,you know, whatever you want, you
can get a tie.
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
I was laughing this morning because uh in in the
first episode we talked to JKHobson and his one of his
favourite foods was uh bar call.
And I'll ask you about yourfavourite foods at the end.
But um so this morning Iactually was out for breakfast
and uh I had barcot because wetalked about it, I was like, oh
yeah, yeah, I haven't had thatin ages.
And as I was eating it near theend, I was like, just had beef
(14:29):
stew for breakfast.
And totally normal, right?
I think this is you know whenyou've been in Asia for so long,
like this is a completely normaloccurrence.
Yeah.
And I thought about my youngerself or my friends, and you're
like, oh, do you want to havebeef stew for breakfast?
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
So one of my favorite stories about uh just
adjusting to food in Asia, likeyou said, beef stew for
breakfast, uh the the schoolthat I worked at in Korea, we
had uh we had school lunchesevery day.
Made lunch for the kids, theteachers got the same lunch, and
it was different every day, butuh we always got a big bowl of
rice, and we always got thelittle squares of seaweed on the
(15:04):
side.
And about a year and a half intomy school there, um we were
sitting, about five of us aroundthe table, all uh Canadian,
Irish, uh, US teachers, and wewere debating uh which was the
best of the different brands ofseaweed that we got, and it was
just a real like um if you'dtold me two years ago that I'd
(15:28):
be sitting here on this littleplastic chair debating the
merits of different kinds ofsquare seaweed, I was like,
what?
What are you talking about?
I wouldn't have believed you.
So, yeah, that's it's like whenyou know I've been living here
for a whole lot of people.
Yeah, yeah, this ispre-operation.
SPEAKER_00 (15:45):
Like and we talked about as well when I spoke to JK
as well, like not all Vietnamesefood is equal, right?
So there's like everyone knowspha.
But there's good pha and badpha, right?
And when you get here longer,you're like, oh yeah, I won't go
to that place because it's notgood enough.
You get your spots, right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:00):
No, absolutely, yeah.
It's like yeah, Korean peopleask me, like, do you like
kimchi?
Like, I like good kimchi.
Unfortunately, there's a lot ofbad kimchi around.
Right.
Um, yeah, no, same way here,obviously, like you know, you
can get ban mi anywhere, butlike the the perfect ban mi is
as good as anything you'll evereat in your life.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
Yeah, it's so true.
Yeah, I've kind of gone off BanMi a bit because it's just there
is a lot of bad ban me.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah, no, I don't I don't eat it very much anymore.
But yeah, when I first got here,my friend Sean, who I was coming
to visit, there's a little banmi shop around the corner from
the house where he lived, andthat's still the best ban me
sandwich I've ever had in mylife.
It's just nice roasted pork, thethe baguette nice and fluffy,
and yeah, it's whenever I'm inthe neighborhood, I said I go by
and get a ban me from there.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
I was the same when when I first got here every day
without fail, ban me.
Every day.
And not so much anymore.
So what would be your ideal banme?
What's the ingredients?
You said the fluffy bread?
SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yeah, just the the the the hay, like the roasted
pork, uh cucumber, just a littlebit of cilantro, the some onions
and the soy sauce and a littlebit of spicy sauce, and off to
the races.
And you missed the keyingredient pickled veg.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
No?
Not a pickled veg.
For me, uh the best ban me haseverything that you describe
there, but pickled veg as well.
Okay.
And then the worst one is whenthey just throw an egg in it.
unknown (17:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
This is egg and bread.
Well, I mean, I've I've had banmeopla for breakfast before, and
it was great from the right banme purveyor.
Um, but yeah, if it's if you'renot ordering ban meopla and they
just throw an egg on top for noreason, it's like, well, that's
not what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Think this is an idea for a new side podcast
where we just talk about ban me?
The the Bon Mi trial, well, wedidn't scum up the name.
The Nah, never mind.
If I got here six years ago, Ican I can't imagine how
different it would have been interms of even buildings, right?
Like the there's construction isin is going up so fast.
Food and beverage, there wasn'tmany restaurants, definitely no
(17:56):
beer, right?
No good beer.
SPEAKER_02 (17:58):
No good beer at the time, no.
I remember the first time I sawHeineken on draft, I was
excited.
That's how bad the beer scenewas.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Uh that's a low.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
Yes, well, it was all Tiger and San Miguel at the
time.
It's like, oh Heineken, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
We are so spoiled here in Saigon.
Now, now 100%.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
And yeah, at the time there were some nice
restaurants.
Like, it wasn't like there wasno Western restaurants when I
got here.
Um, but obviously nowhere nearthe uh the amount that we have
now.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
And so what what was the biggest challenge that you
found in the beginning of livinghere?
Because I've found and I'vetalked about this in the
beginning, like I couldn't waitto leave the first year.
I really didn't.
Yeah, I was counting down thedays.
I was like, when are we going?
I want to go back to NewZealand.
Like it was just too much.
And there's a few reasons, youknow, uh like health was one of
them, and I couldn't get properhealthcare, things like that.
(18:47):
It was nothing serious, it waslike a back injury.
But yeah, I was couldn't wait toleave, and now I'm like a
complete 180 where I likeliterally like just even the
smalling when I'm out forbreakfast, I'm like, this is
amazing.
Yeah.
And did you have that?
No, that's just me.
Because I've spoken spoken toother people and they've kind of
had similar experiences.
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
Sure.
Well, I you know, like I said,I'd been here already, so I knew
what I was signing up for.
I'd already lived in Asia for along time.
For me, it was it was an upgradecoming here from Korea.
So no, I mean the to be honest,and I'm not just saying this uh
to be self-serving, but the lackof good beer was the only thing
for me that was missing inSaigon at the time.
I was I was drinking gin mostnights.
(19:26):
Um just because I would, youknow.
When you first get here, like acold uh glass of tiger for uh
what a dollar?
I was like, okay, great.
But you know, after a couplemonths of drinking just you know
generic lagers, it's alright.
SPEAKER_00 (19:43):
Well I remember coming the first time here and
the first beer I had was Ba BaBa and thought it was fine.
So this is good.
It was like 15,000, so that'slike 70 cents or something like
that.
And then you drink LaRue, whichis like 12,000 dong, so yeah,
you know, like nearly 60 cents,you're like, this is fine.
But then yeah, it it gets taughtit thin pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_02 (20:04):
Yeah, if that's all you have access to.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Yeah, exactly.
So did you come here then as anEnglish teacher?
SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
Yeah, that's what I was doing in Korea, and uh and
when I came over here, just oneof the one of the like low-key
things that I really liked aboutPsychon was I was meeting people
from all over the world doingall different interesting
things.
Like in Korea, if you were aforeigner, at least the cities I
lived in, you were either ateacher or a US military, and
that was it.
Nobody was doing anything else.
Um so yeah, I didn't know whatat the time, but I did
(20:32):
definitely feel like moving herethat there were gonna be
opportunities to maybe dosomething besides teaching
eventually.
Worked out all right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
So tell us then how did you end up getting into
working for Pastor Street?
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Yeah, so I'd been here about a year and a half uh
when I saw uh an ad on Facebookfor Pastor Street Brewery
Company, and I was just likecraft beer in Saigon, well, this
is this is exactly what I need,and it was it was advertising
the opening date as one weeklater.
It was uh Friday, which was myonly day off at the time, and I
was like, oh a week?
I have to wait a week for like aweek ago, I didn't know this
(21:05):
would ever exist in my life, andnow that I know I'm so excited I
need to So uh it was a longweek, and then yeah, I was there
the first day they were open.
Uh apparently I was the thirdperson through the door.
Um, and yeah, it was only fourbeers at the time, and Jasmine
IPA was one of them, and I wasjust I'm an IPA guy, it was just
oh my god, it was so good.
(21:25):
And yeah, I just I hung around.
Um I started out, uh I justtalked to Bethany, uh one of the
co-founders who was workingbehind the bar at the time.
Uh I told her I had crap somecraft beer experience.
If she needs some help behind abar, I'd be happy to do it for
just for free beers.
Um and she was like, she'sthinking about it.
And I think the second or thirdFriday I was there, uh they
(21:47):
didn't have any food yet.
There was no kitchen.
So I stayed long enough that Ihad to order from Vietnam MM
three different times from threedifferent places.
And uh Bethany told John, one ofthe other co-founders, about
this, and he was like, Oh yeah,hire that guy for sure.
Like give him a job.
Um and that was it.
Just started out working onenight a week behind the bar for
free beer.
And for me, that was that wasthe height of my ambition.
(22:08):
I I was so happy.
That was just you know, pullingpints and just talking to
people, and it was great.
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
And so what happened after that?
Because now you're the CEOdirector for the country?
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
Yeah, that's correct.
Um yeah, so uh you just keptlike I took it seriously.
I was working, like I said, onenight a week, still teaching six
nights a week.
Um and yeah, eventually theythey started paying me with
money and not just beer, andthen so I s took a couple more
shifts behind the bar and a fewless shifts teaching.
(22:40):
Um and then uh a few monthslater, uh our original sales guy
he quit.
John was doing it for a while,and he's the CEO of the company.
He's also our like domesticsales rep who was a little bit
beneath his position at thetime.
Uh excuse me.
So yeah, he asked me if I wantto do the job, and I was just
(23:02):
like, I don't have anybackground in sales, I I
wouldn't know what to do.
And he's like, ah, just drinkbeer and tell people how good
our beer is.
I can do that.
Um is that a reality?
No, he kind of sold me on thesales job.
Uh there's a lot more emailsthan I ever would have guessed.
Uh but no, I mean it it's youknow, you do the parts that you
(23:27):
have to do so that you get to dothe parts that you like to do.
Um and I wouldn't, like I said,it's I wouldn't change anything.
It's a dream job.
Uh uh Some days I have to remindmyself, like, they're paying you
to drink beer.
Like, just do the do the otherwork and don't complain.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
You know, it's it's a pretty great job.
And what uh what's like some ofthe feedback you get from
friends back home or anythingwhen they see what you do?
SPEAKER_02 (23:51):
Oh, they think it's mad.
Like especially the kind of thestate of mind I was in before I
left.
I was I was uh I was not being aresponsible adult my last little
while in Canada.
I was I was partying a lot anduh just not I was just in a kind
of a bad place.
You know, I'd been out of schoolfor a while and I wasn't really
(24:11):
happy with the fact that I wasstill bartending and I was kind
of taking that out on myself.
Um so yeah, like when my friendslike they give you
responsibilities, like you'vegot an expense account?
Like what are you talking about?
It's it's pretty cool.
Um and then yeah, so whenobviously when they come to
visit they see that yeah, I'mworking, it's not just all fun
(24:31):
and games, like there is thereis a professional side to it,
and I've kind of matured alittle bit uh in the ten years
I've been abroad.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
Because that thing, right, because you're very
active on social media andyou're always posting, basically
drinking beer, right?
Promoting the brand, yeah.
Promoting the brand.
And um we've talked about thisbefore about the the difference.
I was talking to somebodyrecently about it, the
difference between reality, likeInstagram, yes, and social
media.
So the difference between whatwe see on social media and then
(25:01):
what is the reality, right?
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
And so I guess that's what people don't see the
reality of your job is emailsand sure spreadsheets and Yeah,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna posta picture on Facebook of me like
taking a call from a from aclient who's upset because you
know the the the coupler won'tfit into the keg or or yeah,
like me, you know, working onspreadsheets.
(25:25):
No, one of the So I've got aclient in Hanoi who uh usually
when I go up there to see him, Iuh he's it's usually one of my
last stops of the night becauseit's a nice bar and you know
he's a he's a friend as well asa client.
What bar is this?
Uh the Moose and Roo smokehouse.
Um so yeah, usually by the timeI get there I'm just having a
(25:46):
few beers and talking andeverything.
I went for lunch one day and theowner was behind the bar.
I pulled up my laptop andstarted banging out emails, and
he's just like, Oh, you do work.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
But if you follow on social media, like all he does
is drink beer.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
Right, well and and for me, I've always said like if
if people think that all I do isdrink beer, then I'm I'm doing a
good job of of you knowpromoting the brand and myself
and the lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
I do want to see a post this week of you working at
a computer with a spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_02 (26:16):
I yeah, I've done sure.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
Joking.
So VM's famous for cheap beer.
Yeah, like dirt cheap beer,right?
But it comes at a price ofquality, and the craft beer is
unbelievable quality, but it'sexpensive relatively.
What would you say to peoplethat are kind of, well no, VM is
(26:38):
meant to be cheap beer?
I've seen people post thisonline, you know, it's too
expensive.
What's your response to that?
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
Well, like you said, it's all relative.
So my friend that I was drinkingwith last night he just got back
from Australia, and he's like,this is cheap.
This is really cheap.
He's drinking our Irish stoutand he was like, This is an
amazing beer, and it'll be atleast twice the cost in
Australia.
Three times maybe.
So, yeah, it is all relative,and you know, we didn't when we
(27:07):
well, when we when John and Alexand Bethany, when they started
the company, it wasn't aboutgetting rich or making a cash
grab, or you know, they set thethe retail price where they had
to set it to in in order to oneday become profitable as a
company.
And and I think there's uhthere's still maybe a certain
segment of the local population,the local expat population, who
(27:29):
think that everybody at PasteurStreet and everybody at Quanu is
just like sitting on piles ofmoney and laughing to the bank.
It's not like that at all.
You know, we're we're stillsmall companies struggling to to
make it happen, and the factthat we're expanding quickly is
just you know keeping up thedemand and also trying to to be
sustainable and excuse me.
(27:50):
So yeah, I mean it's you knowthe over the overheads of
running a brewery are aremassive.
So and the the cost of qualityingredients are huge.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
So yeah, it's and is that what puts the price up?
Is it the ingredients then momostly?
Or what makes it more than a lotof things?
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
It's the labor, it's it's the you know the cost of
running a brewery and adistribution system and these
different tap rooms.
Um it's it's everything.
And I'm not crying poor again.
I I I love my job, I'm doingwell, I'm happy.
Um but yeah, to be sustainable,you know, we have to charge a
premium price.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
I'm gonna ask you a question later, which uh what
I'm about to say now mightanswer that question, but we'll
see what your what your answeris.
One of the things that um Ithink is amazing, and it always
surprises me, is when you gointo Pastor Street or Beercraft
or any of these Western placeswhich do cost that a premium
prize, it's filled withVietnamese people, like more
(28:49):
Vietnamese people than expats.
So it's not like just an expatthing, and I think that people
get surprised.
Vietnam, the perception fromabroad is it's a war-home, poor
country, right?
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
And that's true in some respects.
There are problems and it thereare there is severe poverty
here, but also it's climbing outof poverty in one uh one of the
fastest grown economies in theworld.
So there are lots of localpeople who can enjoy that
lifestyle, right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
And I don't know what my point is to that, but
but I think it's refreshingbecause you go in and and maybe
you if someone's visiting, ormaybe you just think, oh, it's
just all these expats that areliving it up here.
But it's actually not yourservicing and providing a
service to the local community.
Sure, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (29:30):
Especially when we uh when we first opened uh and I
was working behind the bar, Iremember a lot of uh younger
Vietnamese guys, like you know,mid-twenties to late twenties,
uh a lot who had been abroad andwho had had craft beer before,
they were just so excited to bein the bar.
Uh you know, they'd be likesitting by out by the window and
they'd come up to me behind thebar, like, you guys make this
(29:51):
beer?
This is you you guys make thishere?
And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he's like, dude, thank youso much.
This is awesome, like, this isgreat.
Um, and yeah, for for us, theWhole thing was to use fresh
local ingredients to make likereal Vietnamese craft beer, and
that's uh you know, useVietnamese coffee, Vietnamese
chocolate, uh, you know,different Vietnamese fruits and
and spices.
You know, we really want to tolocate it in Vietnam.
(30:14):
And yeah, that really appealedto to uh to the local
Vietnamese, that they to givethem a sense of pride about you
know the how good somethinglocally made could be, and that
we could then send it out to theworld and say this this comes
from Viet this comes fromVietnam.
This look at how good this is.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
And I think uh like every country, the generation is
changing.
The younger generation isdifferent to the older
generation, right?
So in Vietnam, I think they havethe highest consumption of beer
in the world, one of thehighest, it's like eight billion
litres of beer a yearconsumption.
SPEAKER_02 (30:45):
Like top five per capita.
Yeah, yeah.
I uh don't quote me on that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
But I think that's changing, right?
That's like the older generationwhere you see the guys on the
street with like a crate oftiger and just but the younger
generation now are more enjoyinglike craft beers and yeah, yeah,
they've got a taste forsomething better, and once you
get you know, it's like uh it'slike hamburgers and steak.
SPEAKER_02 (31:05):
Yeah, if you if you've only eaten hamburgers all
your life, you think hamburgeris the greatest thing in the
world.
Once you have a nice, perfect,medium rare ribeye, it's like,
oh yeah, no, that's better.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Yeah.
So we're gonna finish up withthe same questions that I ask in
every episode.
Cool.
Are we going like lightninground style?
Or no.
No, okay.
You can take your time.
Okay.
So the first question is whatare your top three foods in
Vietnam?
SPEAKER_02 (31:28):
Um, yeah, it I mean, there's a reason that pho is the
most popular and most well-knownVietnamese food is because it's
the best.
Um like, you know, when I'msick, a bowl of pho ga is better
than any bowl of chicken noodlesoup I've ever had in my life.
Um, and the best way to preventa hangover in Vietnam is to get
a bowl of pho ba on your wayhome from the bar.
(31:50):
It's fills you up nicely, it'salmost perfect.
Um yeah, I I I like noodles alot, so like you know, boon cha,
boom ba way, bon tip noong, likethose are all my go-to
Vietnamese dishes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
For me on the way home, it's bopin.
I don't even know that.
It's like the deep fried riceflour.
Oh, okay.
Had that?
Seen that?
Yeah, it doesn't.
Should you get that?
Yeah?
So good.
So fattening though.
It's like it's like fried inlike pork clouds or something
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
No, that's it.
I mean, like, yeah, when I'mafter I've had a lot to drink,
like just the I I wouldn't thinkof eating it except for you know
Western fast food, and this isthis is also the best way to to
avoid that, is just go for thepho ba.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
So top three, number one pho.
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
Yeah.
Two, three.
Uh buntit noong would be numbertwo, and then yeah, buncha.
When I go to Hanoi, there's thisgreat little place close to our
tap room there.
That's I've had Buncha downhere, and it's good, but the the
stuff in Hanoi is I mean, that'swhere it's from.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
That's Buntit Nung, Buncha are two of my favorites.
Really good.
Uh what's your favorite bar andbeer?
We ask this to everybody.
Yeah.
I feel like we need astipulation here that it's not
you can't say past though forthis.
SPEAKER_02 (33:00):
Sure.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
So but maybe is that is that your favorite bar in
bio?
SPEAKER_02 (33:04):
Um, I mean it it's home, you know?
I I feel like I'm going homewhen I go to any one of our tap
rooms.
Um, but anybody who knows me uhwill tell you that malt is my
favorite bar in Saigon.
Uh 46 MACT Boy.
They they've got usually fiveplus of our beers on tap at any
time.
Um it's just it's just so cozyand nice.
(33:26):
And when they opened, there waslike now you can get a similar
vibe to malt at different barsaround the city.
At the time they opened, therewas nothing like that.
It was all like, you know, thePastor Street uh girly bars or
like really expensive rooftopbars, and there was really
nothing in between.
And it it sounds crazy to saythat now, but it's it's true.
SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
Um it's how much the scene has changed.
Like I completely agree.
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
I'm just thinking back when I came there three
years ago, it's like malt wasthe closest place to like uh
American bar or like a nice pubthat you could sit down and
relax, and like men and womencould go together and not feel
uncomfortable, and like everyit's just it had something for
everyone.
And uh yeah, just another quickstory.
So at the time, uh EmergencyRoom, I don't know if you know
(34:09):
the emergency room.
It was kind of a weird bar, butthe the pizza and the chicken
wings were awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
Was it a weird bar, but it was cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
Well, when Matt Ryan was running it, it was before he
started there and then after heleft, it was the difference in
quality was noticeable.
Um, but yeah, so uh I wasclosing the bar on Friday nights
and a couple other nights, andI'd usually go to an emergency
room after because I could getyou know a pizza or some chicken
wings, someone eat.
The kitchen was open late.
Uh and when I met Matt King, theowner of malt with his wife, uh
(34:40):
the first time I met him atPasteur Street, uh, another
friend of ours, Jeff Pechowski,was sitting uh around the end of
the bar.
Matt's describing the concept ofmalt to me, and I'm like, this
sounds amazing, like, thissounds great.
And he wants to put a couple ofour beers on.
And uh Jeff pipes up from aroundthe corner, like, if you really
want your bar to be successful,you gotta get Misha to go there
every night instead of emergencyroom after he gets off work
(35:01):
here.
And obviously that's not theonly reason that malt's been
successful, but that's exactlywhat happened.
As soon as they opened, I wasjust I was over to malt every
night, and I'd get a spinach andartichoke dip instead of uh
instead of the pizza and thechicken wings at the emergency
room.
SPEAKER_00 (35:15):
That that spinach and artichoke dip is still class
dishes.
Even my mum and dad visited uhabout 18 months ago, and they
loved malt.
They've like that we had to goback because they love the
shuffle board, they love thebeers, the atmosphere, and they
were like, Can we go back tomalt tonight?
I was like, Yeah, sure, let'sgo.
SPEAKER_02 (35:32):
Well, and that's any any age, any gender, any you
know, any style, like it's justit's malt's got something for
everyone.
It's a great bar.
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
And then so what's your favorite Pasteur street
beer and your favoritenon-pasteur street beer?
SPEAKER_02 (35:46):
Sure.
So uh our double IPA is is stillmy favorite beer that we've ever
done.
Strong hoppy, it gets you itgets you where you need to go.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
You can't have too many though.
SPEAKER_02 (35:57):
Uh well you can't.
I can't, definitely not.
I remember one night uh I justthe the the phrase double IPA
all day came into my head, andwe were we were at uh the D1 tap
room with some of my friends,and I was buying around at
double IPAs for everyone.
Uh, and then some of them triedto order something else for the
second beer, and I was like, no,no, no, no, no, double IPA all
(36:19):
day.
So we were getting into it, anduh and then I got a call from my
boss at the time.
He's like, Oh, we're bringing uhsome people down from the from
the production facility.
Uh are you are you at thetavern?
Like, yeah.
And I'm like, alright, it's it'skind of an important, you know,
like be on your best behavior.
And I was like, oh yeah, yeah,I'll be fine.
(36:42):
A bunch of doubles at the time.
They all come down, we're we'resitting upstairs, and I'm still
just housing double IPAs.
And uh I I remember I was reallycharming.
I was just on my on definitelyon my best behavior.
Um but yeah, now in our D2chapter, and that's on the wall
double IPA all day.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
And what what is it what is the strength of the
double IPA?
8.7%.
8.7%.
Yeah, I could be a good one.
A nice sessionable double IPA.
Uh what's your favorite daytimeplace to drink or hang out in in
Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
Um The Boathouse in District 2 is a great uh daytime
spot, just on the river, nice,calm, quiet.
Obviously, they have a few ofour beers on top.
Uh they have great Bloody Marys,uh, great margaritas.
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
It's the first time the boathouse has come up and
I've been waiting for it.
Okay.
That's my favorite place withouta doubt.
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
Yeah, well that was one of the the boathouse is one
of the uh one of the originallike it was here long before I
moved here.
You know, it's like I said, whenwhen I first moved here, there
wasn't as many choices now,obviously, but there were some
good ones.
And yeah, the boathouse has beena standby for a long time.
Uh it's a great little spot inD2.
Uh the food's really goodnowadays.
(37:56):
And yeah, the drinks areexcellent.
That's and the the view, youknow, can't be.
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
Well, I like the boathouse because as we've
mentioned, Saigon is crazy, it'snoisy, it's busy.
And it's difficult to get out ofSaigon because it is so big and
it's such a metropolis.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:11):
And sometimes you can just be like, I just need to
get out, but you can't.
And then one day I realize,let's go to the boathouse.
And you get there and it'sserene and it's by the river and
it's calm and there's nobeeping.
And yeah, it's a good spot.
So that's now like my go-toplace of like I just need to get
out, but I can't go anywhere.
Nice.
Like boathouse kind of fillsthat fills that uh need.
(38:32):
Um now I mean maybe we'vecovered this, but why do you
stay in Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (38:37):
I think we have.
Um they pay me to drink beer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
Yeah, it's good enough reason.
Yeah.
The reason I asked that is justbecause maybe, and then you've
kind of said you didn't findthat, you haven't had as many
challenges, but I've had a lotof expatches speak to and even
locals.
It is a challenging environmentto live in.
Sure.
And so that's the reason I askis why do you stay?
Because I know for me there's akind of story to that.
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
Yeah.
Um, I mean, I've I've beensaying this for a while, like,
if if I find a place that I likemore in my travels, then maybe
I'll move there.
But so far Saigon's been it.
Fair enough, good answer.
Uh, what one thing would youchange about Saigon?
Nothing.
No, yeah, I mean uh I wasthinking of something about you
know the traffic police or thethe petty theft that happens,
(39:24):
but like, you know, every cityhas its its good and its bad,
and you gotta kinda take take itall as a piece.
Um I mean I love it here.
SPEAKER_00 (39:33):
There's nothing I would change.
Fair enough.
And what do you think is themost misunderstood thing about
Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (39:40):
Um, just from like you said before, from people who
haven't been here, that it's uhyou know, that it's it's this
underdeveloped, you know,war-torn place.
And you know, obviously there'sa there's that history here.
Um but yeah, people don't peoplewho've never been here probably
don't realize what what a greatcity Saigon is and Hanoi as well
(40:01):
to a certain extent.
SPEAKER_00 (40:02):
There is that rivalry.
Every c every country's gottahave two cities that have a
rivalry, right?
Like you can't not.
Uh so talking about the boathouse and getting out of town,
what's your favorite place toget out of town?
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
Uh Hoyan uh it's it's so different from Saigon in
in in in all the nice ways.
Um just quiet, peaceful.
Uh it's the only place inVietnam I could see myself maybe
moving to someday, but that'd beway down the road.
Um yeah, it's I've been all overVietnam and Oyan's definitely my
(40:39):
my second favorite place after asaga.
SPEAKER_00 (40:42):
Last question What advice would you give to
somebody who's thinking of ofliving here?
SPEAKER_02 (40:48):
Come do it.
Any if you have any any uh anyidea that you might want to move
here, just go for it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
It's amazing.
Nice.
And so that's just finished upthere then.
So thank you so much.
Um what's next then for Pasto?
SPEAKER_02 (41:03):
Like I said, we've got a uh our first place in
Hoyan coming soon.
Um probably looking for anotherone in uh in Hanoi or Saigon
after that.
Um yeah, we just we're stillfocused on uh on the domestic
market.
Uh, you know, Vietnam is ourhome, it's where we live, it's
what we love.
Um yeah, and we've been gettingback to export as well recently.
(41:26):
Uh yeah, uh I don't want toreveal too many uh long-term
plans.
Um but yeah, just keep pumpingout good beers, uh, you know,
get it get them around to thepeople who want them and just
keep expanding.
SPEAKER_00 (41:41):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (41:42):
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (41:43):
You're very welcome.
It's been really interesting,it's good to chat to you.
And thank you to everyone forlistening to another episode of
7 Million Bites, Saigon Podcast.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of 7 Million Bites, a
Saigon Podcast.
Thanks to Michelle for joiningme today, and a massive thank
(42:04):
you as always to Lewis Wrightfor composing our theme tune and
Leoyn for designing our coverart, which you can see on our
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If you want to get in touch,then you can send me a message
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(42:27):
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(00:21):
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(00:42):
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(01:03):
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(01:35):
So with me today on anotherepisode of 7 Million Bikes, a
Saigon podcast, is Misha Smith,the sales director from Pasto
Street Brewing Company.
How are you doing today?
Good, Neil, how are you?
Pretty good, not too bad.
And so uh how's things going atPastou?
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Going well.
Um yeah, we're just about toopen a location in Hawaiian that
we're really excited about, anduh for me, just getting the beer
out to as many people as I canacross the country.
SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
Would you say that you have a dream job?
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
Uh yeah, without without sounding too trite or
cliche about it, uh 100%.
Um yeah, I didn't I didn'trealize that I was training my
whole life for this specificjob.
Uh, but that's how it turnedout.
I I can drink a lot and I cantalk to people and uh I can
convince people that our beerwell I don't have to do much
convincing the beer, the beerkind of speaks for itself.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
It is good beer.
So we'll get into the beer in am in a minute.
So 7 Million Bikes is all aboutpeople who live here, uh both
expats and locals.
Find out a bit about thebackground and then um also find
out like what it's like to livein Saigon, because we've talked
about it on previous episodes.
Saigon's just a crazy place tolive, right?
Absolutely.
And it's got uh it's definitelyunique and it's challenging and
(02:45):
it can be confronting, butultimately I found after three
years it is a good place to be.
So let's go backwards though.
So um you're from Canada.
Yes.
Whereabouts in Canada?
Uh Sarnia, Ontario.
And would you agree thatCanadians are the politest
people on the planet?
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Uh except for me.
I've I've been told uh peoplewho don't know where I'm from,
uh, they sometimes describe meto my friends as oh, he's he's
the most polite American I'veever met.
Um but then people who know mealso he's the rudest Canadian
I've ever met, which I feel likeis about is about right.
That's about on par.
(03:21):
It's an accurate description.
SPEAKER_00 (03:23):
And so uh where you're in the beer industry in
Canada.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Uh my last job in Toronto uh before I moved to
Asia was uh bartending at alittle brew pub called Mill
Street Brewery.
Uh it's not little anymore.
Uh but uh yeah, I was there thefirst summer they were open, and
that's where I really uh got ataste for craft beer.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
I like the pun.
I got a taste for craft beer.
It was unintentional.
I hate puns.
Um I I actually love puns.
I love dad jokes as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
Yeah, that's the Scottish and Irish thing, I
think.
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
I'm like one of those people that likes the
jokes and Christmas crackers.
Well um we can move on quicklyon that at least.
Um what were you doing at thecraft brewery in Canada?
SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
I was I was working uh at the at the pub.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
I was uh serving in bartending.
And so what's the craft beerlike scene like in Canada?
Obviously it's massive inAmerica, the the West Coast it's
huge.
Uh it's new here in Saigon inCanada, how developed is it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
So this is about ten years ago that I was working
there, and uh like I said, itwas the first summer that that
brewery was open, and um it wasstill pretty new uh at the time.
Not not in terms of the length,because it craft beer had been
around for a while, but itwasn't hugely popular until
until around that time.
It was really just starting totake off uh then, at least in
(04:44):
where I was from in in uhOntario.
Um but yeah, now it's obviouslyit's huge.
Ten years later it's the same aseverywhere, you know, the craft
beer takes off everywhere itgoes.
That's true, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
It's like uh just can't once it starts, it can't
stop.
But there's kind of like alimit, right?
Like it it kind of has a bit ofa glass ceiling, doesn't it?
It's never gonna be like ahundred percent craft beer,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
Uh well yeah, of course not.
Unfortunately.
I mean, having having said that,uh we're nowhere near the limit,
either in Saigon or anywhereelse.
I mean you know, Vietnam is is abeer drinking country, and we've
got just a tiny, tiny, tinypercentage of the of the market.
(05:25):
Not just pasture, but craft beerin general.
It's it's such a small piece ofthe pie.
There's so much room to growstill.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
But in America it's kind of topped out almost every.
I think I remember reading aboutthat.
Like the it grew so fast andthen it's kind of now plateaued
a bit.
SPEAKER_02 (05:38):
Sure, you'd have to talk to an American about that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
I'm not I'm not really keyed into the American
craft beer scene.
Because I was uh quite into theso I lived in New Zealand before
here and was really into thecraft beer scene in Wellington,
like it was unbelievable.
Lived in downtown, it was Ithink like six, seven, eight,
maybe ten, I can't remember,like craft beer breweries within
walking distance of my apartmentin downtown Wellington.
(06:03):
And so in Wellington my wife andI we invested in a craft brewery
in New Zealand calledRenaissance or Renaissance,
depending on your pronunciation.
My wife and I would disagree onthat.
And uh we put in a couple ofthousand New Zealand dollars,
partly because if you put in atthat level, you got a free crate
(06:24):
of beer every year.
unknown (06:26):
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
Beauty sweet, that's long-term investment.
Yeah, and uh you know we wantedto be part of it, we wanted to
see it grow, they needed newequipment, things like that.
Anyway, fast forward.
We then end up leaving NewZealand to come to Asia for just
for a year, but we end up beinghere for three years.
So every year we've been givingaway our free crate of craft
beer to our friends, you know,because we get it anyway, but
like, well, you guys can haveit.
(06:48):
And then last year, we startedto get some emails that didn't
look too good, and eventually itwent out of business.
And uh, that's the risk of afree beer for life.
Yeah, my company got uh wentinto insolvency, got liquidated,
all the investors lost themoney.
We got one free crate of beerout of that because we'd been
(07:10):
given the other crate away.
Sure.
Um eventually the company wasbought up, reopened under the
same brand with the same staffin the same premises, all the
investors lost their money.
So we got burned badly on that.
So I don't think we'll beinvesting anytime soon.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
And uh shame because I uh I've got a notch.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
So yeah, I got my fingers burned a little bit by
that.
But yeah, for sure.
Like here, obviously that theit's a tiny piece of the market,
but the reason I brought that upis because I remember going to
the investors' meeting and theywere talking about how in
America it kind of plateaued,but the room for growth in New
Zealand was still huge.
That's why we invest here.
Um but they were saying itprobably will get to a point
where you know it will plateauin each country because the big
(07:55):
guns are so big, and also peoplehave a taste for like the
traditional beers, right?
But obviously here in Vietnamthere's massive, massive room
for growth, right?
Absolutely, yeah.
And there's still more playerscoming into this.
Yeah, for sure.
You guys are doing pretty well,right?
And so things were going allright in Canada.
Then what made you leave Canada?
(08:15):
How did you end up in Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (08:17):
Um, well, I I I got fired from the the brewery that
I was working at.
Um and I'd been out of schoolfor about a year, um, and I just
didn't really want to keep goingthrough the the F and B C and I
worked at a bunch of restaurantswhile I was going through
school.
Um yeah, and I'd thought aboutteaching overseas for a long
(08:39):
time, and the timing was neverright, and then all of a sudden
it just was.
Uh, and I moved to Korea, SouthKorea, uh, for what I thought
was gonna be a year.
I ended up staying for four anda half years.
Um and then I came to Saigon onvacation a couple times while I
was living over there to visitsome friends, and I just fell in
love with Saigon, Vietnam, thecity.
Like I I I knew I knew once Igot here that this is where I
(09:00):
belonged, so went back, finishedmy contract in Korea, and um
yeah, I moved here.
And that's how I got to Saigon.
And so what was it like livingin Korea then?
I visited Korea, but uh I excuseme.
Um I lived in two differentcities, and there were smaller
they weren't like thecountryside, but they were small
(09:20):
cities.
And uh it was an experience.
I I enjoyed it.
I met some of my best friends inthe world there.
Um I I prefer it here.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
What why do you prefer it here then?
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
I just I don't want to say anything bad about Korea.
I was I lived there for a longtime.
Uh but I just Saigon there's somuch more energy, so much more
excitement.
Like you s the the feeling ispalpable when you're here.
Like it's you know, when I wentback after my after my two
visits to Korea and my friendswere like, oh how's Vietnam?
And I was just gushing about it.
I'm like, oh what's so goodabout it?
And I was like, you know, likethe food, the nightlife, the the
(09:53):
people, everything, but likejust the energy.
I just kept saying the energy.
And I couldn't really describeit, but uh all of those friends
who have come to visit me herenow, they as soon as they get
here, they're like, oh, okay, Iget it.
Yeah, like you know, it's it'ssomething that you can't quite
put your finger on.
But the first time I was herefor two weeks, I just had this
goofy grin on my face the wholetime.
I was just so happy.
And I was like, what?
I don't know, that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
I just love it here.
It's definitely an energeticcity, and I think that can be
both negative and positive,right?
Sure.
And so when you come, I think inthe beginning I was the same.
I came for a visit before wecame to live here and just loved
it.
You know, I don't again youcan't really describe it.
It's just it's Vietnam.
Yeah, it's just amazing.
Yeah, I think everybody's thesame that comes here, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:33):
Yeah.
Well, uh you are or you aren't,like, it depends on your
mileage, right?
Like, definitely some people I Ilive with some people in Korea
who had been here and they'relike, oh, you liked Saigon?
I hated it.
And I can understand why someonewouldn't enjoy the city, but
those people are very differentfrom me, personality-wise.
Like, I it's just it suits me toa T.
Like, and you know, when you'vetraveled, like when you've
(10:56):
traveled a bit, you just have acertain feeling about certain
places.
And you and when you get to aplace that that suits your
personality, you know.
Like, you just knowautomatically, like, yeah, this
is me, right here.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
And so, how long after your visit that you you
went back to Korea and you'relike, right, I'm moving to the
second Korea?
SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
Uh well, I I I came back for a second visit just to
make sure.
Uh, because we always joked whenI was living in South Korea, we
always used to joke that uh anytrip out of Korea was the best
trip of your life because you'regetting out of Korea for a bit.
How was Moscow?
Oh, it was great.
It was uh really cold andfantastic.
(11:33):
Um so yeah, no, I came back asecond time just to make sure
that I still felt the same wayand that it wasn't just uh uh
you know like a whatever, like afleeting room.
Like a summer fling room, yeah.
Um and yeah, I felt the same waythe second time.
Uh and then I sort of went back,finished my contract, uh, went
home for a couple months, uh,back to Canada, and then yeah,
(11:55):
moved uh moved here for good.
Been here for almost six yearsnow.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Wow, six years.
So you must have seen so muchchange in the city.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Yeah, well, yeah.
I mean when you when you'rehere, you don't notice it so
much, you know.
If you like if you're here andyou leave and then you come back
six years later, I'm sure itwould be like, oh my god, so
much has changed.
And to a certain extent, I wouldsay the same thing.
Yeah, a lot's changed.
Um but yeah, when you're hereevery day, it's just it's not
it's not as noticeable becauseit's so gradual.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
Um, but of course, yeah, so much has changed in six
years.
Especially in the food andbeverage industry.
I feel eaten in three years I'vebeen here.
Yeah, so much is here now.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
Yeah, no, I was just talking to a couple of uh
friends last night, bar andrestaurant owners, and uh yeah,
we're just talking about I mean,we know we see it.
I don't think the the rest ofthe world has caught on yet that
Saigon has become such a greatfoody city and beer city, and
but uh you know hopefullyeventually people will.
It's I mean it's still a hugetourist destination, but I don't
(12:52):
think people realize how howgreat the Saigon food scene has
gotten yet if you don't live inSaigon.
So it'll be exciting to to seemore and more people coming and
enjoying uh just what an amazingcity it is and what how great
the the food scene has become,like you said.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
I've been really bad in the last kind of year or so
because just eating more andmore Western food and but the
food in Vietnam is amazing likeVietnamese food is so famous and
so good, but I find myself moreand more eating Mexican food all
the time.
I had someone say to merecently, Oh, there's no good
Mexican food in Saigon, and mylike jaw hit the floor.
I was like, wait, what?
Are you kidding me?
I was like, There's so much goodMexican food.
(13:28):
And I won't say the name of theplace, but she'd only been to
one Mexican place and didn'tknow about the rest, and I like
listed them all.
She's now been to nearly all ofthem.
District Federal's her favorite,which I agree is the best,
probably.
Food and the mugs there areamazing.
But yeah, and so I find myselfmore and more just eating
non-Vietnamese food, andsometimes I have to remind
(13:49):
myself and my wife were like,we've got to eat some Vietnamese
food.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
I'm I'm the exact same way.
When I first moved here, I wasjust all street food all the
time, like so delicious.
And it I mean, obviously it'sstill the spoon's still just as
good as it was back then.
Uh but yeah, we're just sospoiled for choices now.
Like, what do you feel like?
Oh, Italian, Mexican, Japanese,you know, whatever you want, you
can get a tie.
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
I was laughing this morning because uh in in the
first episode we talked to JKHobson and his one of his
favourite foods was uh bar call.
And I'll ask you about yourfavourite foods at the end.
But um so this morning Iactually was out for breakfast
and uh I had barcot because wetalked about it, I was like, oh
yeah, yeah, I haven't had thatin ages.
And as I was eating it near theend, I was like, just had beef
(14:29):
stew for breakfast.
And totally normal, right?
I think this is you know whenyou've been in Asia for so long,
like this is a completely normaloccurrence.
Yeah.
And I thought about my youngerself or my friends, and you're
like, oh, do you want to havebeef stew for breakfast?
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
So one of my favorite stories about uh just
adjusting to food in Asia, likeyou said, beef stew for
breakfast, uh the the schoolthat I worked at in Korea, we
had uh we had school lunchesevery day.
Made lunch for the kids, theteachers got the same lunch, and
it was different every day, butuh we always got a big bowl of
rice, and we always got thelittle squares of seaweed on the
(15:04):
side.
And about a year and a half intomy school there, um we were
sitting, about five of us aroundthe table, all uh Canadian,
Irish, uh, US teachers, and wewere debating uh which was the
best of the different brands ofseaweed that we got, and it was
just a real like um if you'dtold me two years ago that I'd
(15:28):
be sitting here on this littleplastic chair debating the
merits of different kinds ofsquare seaweed, I was like,
what?
What are you talking about?
I wouldn't have believed you.
So, yeah, that's it's like whenyou know I've been living here
for a whole lot of people.
Yeah, yeah, this ispre-operation.
SPEAKER_00 (15:45):
Like and we talked about as well when I spoke to JK
as well, like not all Vietnamesefood is equal, right?
So there's like everyone knowspha.
But there's good pha and badpha, right?
And when you get here longer,you're like, oh yeah, I won't go
to that place because it's notgood enough.
You get your spots, right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:00):
No, absolutely, yeah.
It's like yeah, Korean peopleask me, like, do you like
kimchi?
Like, I like good kimchi.
Unfortunately, there's a lot ofbad kimchi around.
Right.
Um, yeah, no, same way here,obviously, like you know, you
can get ban mi anywhere, butlike the the perfect ban mi is
as good as anything you'll evereat in your life.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
Yeah, it's so true.
Yeah, I've kind of gone off BanMi a bit because it's just there
is a lot of bad ban me.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah, no, I don't I don't eat it very much anymore.
But yeah, when I first got here,my friend Sean, who I was coming
to visit, there's a little banmi shop around the corner from
the house where he lived, andthat's still the best ban me
sandwich I've ever had in mylife.
It's just nice roasted pork, thethe baguette nice and fluffy,
and yeah, it's whenever I'm inthe neighborhood, I said I go by
and get a ban me from there.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
I was the same when when I first got here every day
without fail, ban me.
Every day.
And not so much anymore.
So what would be your ideal banme?
What's the ingredients?
You said the fluffy bread?
SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yeah, just the the the the hay, like the roasted
pork, uh cucumber, just a littlebit of cilantro, the some onions
and the soy sauce and a littlebit of spicy sauce, and off to
the races.
And you missed the keyingredient pickled veg.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
No?
Not a pickled veg.
For me, uh the best ban me haseverything that you describe
there, but pickled veg as well.
Okay.
And then the worst one is whenthey just throw an egg in it.
unknown (17:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
This is egg and bread.
Well, I mean, I've I've had banmeopla for breakfast before, and
it was great from the right banme purveyor.
Um, but yeah, if it's if you'renot ordering ban meopla and they
just throw an egg on top for noreason, it's like, well, that's
not what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Think this is an idea for a new side podcast
where we just talk about ban me?
The the Bon Mi trial, well, wedidn't scum up the name.
The Nah, never mind.
If I got here six years ago, Ican I can't imagine how
different it would have been interms of even buildings, right?
Like the there's construction isin is going up so fast.
Food and beverage, there wasn'tmany restaurants, definitely no
(17:56):
beer, right?
No good beer.
SPEAKER_02 (17:58):
No good beer at the time, no.
I remember the first time I sawHeineken on draft, I was
excited.
That's how bad the beer scenewas.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Uh that's a low.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
Yes, well, it was all Tiger and San Miguel at the
time.
It's like, oh Heineken, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
We are so spoiled here in Saigon.
Now, now 100%.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
And yeah, at the time there were some nice
restaurants.
Like, it wasn't like there wasno Western restaurants when I
got here.
Um, but obviously nowhere nearthe uh the amount that we have
now.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
And so what what was the biggest challenge that you
found in the beginning of livinghere?
Because I've found and I'vetalked about this in the
beginning, like I couldn't waitto leave the first year.
I really didn't.
Yeah, I was counting down thedays.
I was like, when are we going?
I want to go back to NewZealand.
Like it was just too much.
And there's a few reasons, youknow, uh like health was one of
them, and I couldn't get properhealthcare, things like that.
(18:47):
It was nothing serious, it waslike a back injury.
But yeah, I was couldn't wait toleave, and now I'm like a
complete 180 where I likeliterally like just even the
smalling when I'm out forbreakfast, I'm like, this is
amazing.
Yeah.
And did you have that?
No, that's just me.
Because I've spoken spoken toother people and they've kind of
had similar experiences.
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
Sure.
Well, I you know, like I said,I'd been here already, so I knew
what I was signing up for.
I'd already lived in Asia for along time.
For me, it was it was an upgradecoming here from Korea.
So no, I mean the to be honest,and I'm not just saying this uh
to be self-serving, but the lackof good beer was the only thing
for me that was missing inSaigon at the time.
I was I was drinking gin mostnights.
(19:26):
Um just because I would, youknow.
When you first get here, like acold uh glass of tiger for uh
what a dollar?
I was like, okay, great.
But you know, after a couplemonths of drinking just you know
generic lagers, it's alright.
SPEAKER_00 (19:43):
Well I remember coming the first time here and
the first beer I had was Ba BaBa and thought it was fine.
So this is good.
It was like 15,000, so that'slike 70 cents or something like
that.
And then you drink LaRue, whichis like 12,000 dong, so yeah,
you know, like nearly 60 cents,you're like, this is fine.
But then yeah, it it gets taughtit thin pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_02 (20:04):
Yeah, if that's all you have access to.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Yeah, exactly.
So did you come here then as anEnglish teacher?
SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
Yeah, that's what I was doing in Korea, and uh and
when I came over here, just oneof the one of the like low-key
things that I really liked aboutPsychon was I was meeting people
from all over the world doingall different interesting
things.
Like in Korea, if you were aforeigner, at least the cities I
lived in, you were either ateacher or a US military, and
that was it.
Nobody was doing anything else.
Um so yeah, I didn't know whatat the time, but I did
(20:32):
definitely feel like moving herethat there were gonna be
opportunities to maybe dosomething besides teaching
eventually.
Worked out all right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
So tell us then how did you end up getting into
working for Pastor Street?
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Yeah, so I'd been here about a year and a half uh
when I saw uh an ad on Facebookfor Pastor Street Brewery
Company, and I was just likecraft beer in Saigon, well, this
is this is exactly what I need,and it was it was advertising
the opening date as one weeklater.
It was uh Friday, which was myonly day off at the time, and I
was like, oh a week?
I have to wait a week for like aweek ago, I didn't know this
(21:05):
would ever exist in my life, andnow that I know I'm so excited I
need to So uh it was a longweek, and then yeah, I was there
the first day they were open.
Uh apparently I was the thirdperson through the door.
Um, and yeah, it was only fourbeers at the time, and Jasmine
IPA was one of them, and I wasjust I'm an IPA guy, it was just
oh my god, it was so good.
(21:25):
And yeah, I just I hung around.
Um I started out, uh I justtalked to Bethany, uh one of the
co-founders who was workingbehind the bar at the time.
Uh I told her I had crap somecraft beer experience.
If she needs some help behind abar, I'd be happy to do it for
just for free beers.
Um and she was like, she'sthinking about it.
And I think the second or thirdFriday I was there, uh they
(21:47):
didn't have any food yet.
There was no kitchen.
So I stayed long enough that Ihad to order from Vietnam MM
three different times from threedifferent places.
And uh Bethany told John, one ofthe other co-founders, about
this, and he was like, Oh yeah,hire that guy for sure.
Like give him a job.
Um and that was it.
Just started out working onenight a week behind the bar for
free beer.
And for me, that was that wasthe height of my ambition.
(22:08):
I I was so happy.
That was just you know, pullingpints and just talking to
people, and it was great.
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
And so what happened after that?
Because now you're the CEOdirector for the country?
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
Yeah, that's correct.
Um yeah, so uh you just keptlike I took it seriously.
I was working, like I said, onenight a week, still teaching six
nights a week.
Um and yeah, eventually theythey started paying me with
money and not just beer, andthen so I s took a couple more
shifts behind the bar and a fewless shifts teaching.
(22:40):
Um and then uh a few monthslater, uh our original sales guy
he quit.
John was doing it for a while,and he's the CEO of the company.
He's also our like domesticsales rep who was a little bit
beneath his position at thetime.
Uh excuse me.
So yeah, he asked me if I wantto do the job, and I was just
(23:02):
like, I don't have anybackground in sales, I I
wouldn't know what to do.
And he's like, ah, just drinkbeer and tell people how good
our beer is.
I can do that.
Um is that a reality?
No, he kind of sold me on thesales job.
Uh there's a lot more emailsthan I ever would have guessed.
Uh but no, I mean it it's youknow, you do the parts that you
(23:27):
have to do so that you get to dothe parts that you like to do.
Um and I wouldn't, like I said,it's I wouldn't change anything.
It's a dream job.
Uh uh Some days I have to remindmyself, like, they're paying you
to drink beer.
Like, just do the do the otherwork and don't complain.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
You know, it's it's a pretty great job.
And what uh what's like some ofthe feedback you get from
friends back home or anythingwhen they see what you do?
SPEAKER_02 (23:51):
Oh, they think it's mad.
Like especially the kind of thestate of mind I was in before I
left.
I was I was uh I was not being aresponsible adult my last little
while in Canada.
I was I was partying a lot anduh just not I was just in a kind
of a bad place.
You know, I'd been out of schoolfor a while and I wasn't really
(24:11):
happy with the fact that I wasstill bartending and I was kind
of taking that out on myself.
Um so yeah, like when my friendslike they give you
responsibilities, like you'vegot an expense account?
Like what are you talking about?
It's it's pretty cool.
Um and then yeah, so whenobviously when they come to
visit they see that yeah, I'mworking, it's not just all fun
(24:31):
and games, like there is thereis a professional side to it,
and I've kind of matured alittle bit uh in the ten years
I've been abroad.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
Because that thing, right, because you're very
active on social media andyou're always posting, basically
drinking beer, right?
Promoting the brand, yeah.
Promoting the brand.
And um we've talked about thisbefore about the the difference.
I was talking to somebodyrecently about it, the
difference between reality, likeInstagram, yes, and social
media.
So the difference between whatwe see on social media and then
(25:01):
what is the reality, right?
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
And so I guess that's what people don't see the
reality of your job is emailsand sure spreadsheets and Yeah,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna posta picture on Facebook of me like
taking a call from a from aclient who's upset because you
know the the the coupler won'tfit into the keg or or yeah,
like me, you know, working onspreadsheets.
(25:25):
No, one of the So I've got aclient in Hanoi who uh usually
when I go up there to see him, Iuh he's it's usually one of my
last stops of the night becauseit's a nice bar and you know
he's a he's a friend as well asa client.
What bar is this?
Uh the Moose and Roo smokehouse.
Um so yeah, usually by the timeI get there I'm just having a
(25:46):
few beers and talking andeverything.
I went for lunch one day and theowner was behind the bar.
I pulled up my laptop andstarted banging out emails, and
he's just like, Oh, you do work.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
But if you follow on social media, like all he does
is drink beer.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
Right, well and and for me, I've always said like if
if people think that all I do isdrink beer, then I'm I'm doing a
good job of of you knowpromoting the brand and myself
and the lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
I do want to see a post this week of you working at
a computer with a spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_02 (26:16):
I yeah, I've done sure.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
Joking.
So VM's famous for cheap beer.
Yeah, like dirt cheap beer,right?
But it comes at a price ofquality, and the craft beer is
unbelievable quality, but it'sexpensive relatively.
What would you say to peoplethat are kind of, well no, VM is
(26:38):
meant to be cheap beer?
I've seen people post thisonline, you know, it's too
expensive.
What's your response to that?
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
Well, like you said, it's all relative.
So my friend that I was drinkingwith last night he just got back
from Australia, and he's like,this is cheap.
This is really cheap.
He's drinking our Irish stoutand he was like, This is an
amazing beer, and it'll be atleast twice the cost in
Australia.
Three times maybe.
So, yeah, it is all relative,and you know, we didn't when we
(27:07):
well, when we when John and Alexand Bethany, when they started
the company, it wasn't aboutgetting rich or making a cash
grab, or you know, they set thethe retail price where they had
to set it to in in order to oneday become profitable as a
company.
And and I think there's uhthere's still maybe a certain
segment of the local population,the local expat population, who
(27:29):
think that everybody at PasteurStreet and everybody at Quanu is
just like sitting on piles ofmoney and laughing to the bank.
It's not like that at all.
You know, we're we're stillsmall companies struggling to to
make it happen, and the factthat we're expanding quickly is
just you know keeping up thedemand and also trying to to be
sustainable and excuse me.
(27:50):
So yeah, I mean it's you knowthe over the overheads of
running a brewery are aremassive.
So and the the cost of qualityingredients are huge.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
So yeah, it's and is that what puts the price up?
Is it the ingredients then momostly?
Or what makes it more than a lotof things?
SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
It's the labor, it's it's the you know the cost of
running a brewery and adistribution system and these
different tap rooms.
Um it's it's everything.
And I'm not crying poor again.
I I I love my job, I'm doingwell, I'm happy.
Um but yeah, to be sustainable,you know, we have to charge a
premium price.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
I'm gonna ask you a question later, which uh what
I'm about to say now mightanswer that question, but we'll
see what your what your answeris.
One of the things that um Ithink is amazing, and it always
surprises me, is when you gointo Pastor Street or Beercraft
or any of these Western placeswhich do cost that a premium
prize, it's filled withVietnamese people, like more
(28:49):
Vietnamese people than expats.
So it's not like just an expatthing, and I think that people
get surprised.
Vietnam, the perception fromabroad is it's a war-home, poor
country, right?
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
And that's true in some respects.
There are problems and it thereare there is severe poverty
here, but also it's climbing outof poverty in one uh one of the
fastest grown economies in theworld.
So there are lots of localpeople who can enjoy that
lifestyle, right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
And I don't know what my point is to that, but
but I think it's refreshingbecause you go in and and maybe
you if someone's visiting, ormaybe you just think, oh, it's
just all these expats that areliving it up here.
But it's actually not yourservicing and providing a
service to the local community.
Sure, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (29:30):
Especially when we uh when we first opened uh and I
was working behind the bar, Iremember a lot of uh younger
Vietnamese guys, like you know,mid-twenties to late twenties,
uh a lot who had been abroad andwho had had craft beer before,
they were just so excited to bein the bar.
Uh you know, they'd be likesitting by out by the window and
they'd come up to me behind thebar, like, you guys make this
(29:51):
beer?
This is you you guys make thishere?
And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he's like, dude, thank youso much.
This is awesome, like, this isgreat.
Um, and yeah, for for us, theWhole thing was to use fresh
local ingredients to make likereal Vietnamese craft beer, and
that's uh you know, useVietnamese coffee, Vietnamese
chocolate, uh, you know,different Vietnamese fruits and
and spices.
You know, we really want to tolocate it in Vietnam.
(30:14):
And yeah, that really appealedto to uh to the local
Vietnamese, that they to givethem a sense of pride about you
know the how good somethinglocally made could be, and that
we could then send it out to theworld and say this this comes
from Viet this comes fromVietnam.
This look at how good this is.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
And I think uh like every country, the generation is
changing.
The younger generation isdifferent to the older
generation, right?
So in Vietnam, I think they havethe highest consumption of beer
in the world, one of thehighest, it's like eight billion
litres of beer a yearconsumption.
SPEAKER_02 (30:45):
Like top five per capita.
Yeah, yeah.
I uh don't quote me on that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
But I think that's changing, right?
That's like the older generationwhere you see the guys on the
street with like a crate oftiger and just but the younger
generation now are more enjoyinglike craft beers and yeah, yeah,
they've got a taste forsomething better, and once you
get you know, it's like uh it'slike hamburgers and steak.
SPEAKER_02 (31:05):
Yeah, if you if you've only eaten hamburgers all
your life, you think hamburgeris the greatest thing in the
world.
Once you have a nice, perfect,medium rare ribeye, it's like,
oh yeah, no, that's better.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Yeah.
So we're gonna finish up withthe same questions that I ask in
every episode.
Cool.
Are we going like lightninground style?
Or no.
No, okay.
You can take your time.
Okay.
So the first question is whatare your top three foods in
Vietnam?
SPEAKER_02 (31:28):
Um, yeah, it I mean, there's a reason that pho is the
most popular and most well-knownVietnamese food is because it's
the best.
Um like, you know, when I'msick, a bowl of pho ga is better
than any bowl of chicken noodlesoup I've ever had in my life.
Um, and the best way to preventa hangover in Vietnam is to get
a bowl of pho ba on your wayhome from the bar.
(31:50):
It's fills you up nicely, it'salmost perfect.
Um yeah, I I I like noodles alot, so like you know, boon cha,
boom ba way, bon tip noong, likethose are all my go-to
Vietnamese dishes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
For me on the way home, it's bopin.
I don't even know that.
It's like the deep fried riceflour.
Oh, okay.
Had that?
Seen that?
Yeah, it doesn't.
Should you get that?
Yeah?
So good.
So fattening though.
It's like it's like fried inlike pork clouds or something
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
No, that's it.
I mean, like, yeah, when I'mafter I've had a lot to drink,
like just the I I wouldn't thinkof eating it except for you know
Western fast food, and this isthis is also the best way to to
avoid that, is just go for thepho ba.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
So top three, number one pho.
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
Yeah.
Two, three.
Uh buntit noong would be numbertwo, and then yeah, buncha.
When I go to Hanoi, there's thisgreat little place close to our
tap room there.
That's I've had Buncha downhere, and it's good, but the the
stuff in Hanoi is I mean, that'swhere it's from.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
That's Buntit Nung, Buncha are two of my favorites.
Really good.
Uh what's your favorite bar andbeer?
We ask this to everybody.
Yeah.
I feel like we need astipulation here that it's not
you can't say past though forthis.
SPEAKER_02 (33:00):
Sure.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
So but maybe is that is that your favorite bar in
bio?
SPEAKER_02 (33:04):
Um, I mean it it's home, you know?
I I feel like I'm going homewhen I go to any one of our tap
rooms.
Um, but anybody who knows me uhwill tell you that malt is my
favorite bar in Saigon.
Uh 46 MACT Boy.
They they've got usually fiveplus of our beers on tap at any
time.
Um it's just it's just so cozyand nice.
(33:26):
And when they opened, there waslike now you can get a similar
vibe to malt at different barsaround the city.
At the time they opened, therewas nothing like that.
It was all like, you know, thePastor Street uh girly bars or
like really expensive rooftopbars, and there was really
nothing in between.
And it it sounds crazy to saythat now, but it's it's true.
SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
Um it's how much the scene has changed.
Like I completely agree.
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
I'm just thinking back when I came there three
years ago, it's like malt wasthe closest place to like uh
American bar or like a nice pubthat you could sit down and
relax, and like men and womencould go together and not feel
uncomfortable, and like everyit's just it had something for
everyone.
And uh yeah, just another quickstory.
So at the time, uh EmergencyRoom, I don't know if you know
(34:09):
the emergency room.
It was kind of a weird bar, butthe the pizza and the chicken
wings were awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
Was it a weird bar, but it was cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
Well, when Matt Ryan was running it, it was before he
started there and then after heleft, it was the difference in
quality was noticeable.
Um, but yeah, so uh I wasclosing the bar on Friday nights
and a couple other nights, andI'd usually go to an emergency
room after because I could getyou know a pizza or some chicken
wings, someone eat.
The kitchen was open late.
Uh and when I met Matt King, theowner of malt with his wife, uh
(34:40):
the first time I met him atPasteur Street, uh, another
friend of ours, Jeff Pechowski,was sitting uh around the end of
the bar.
Matt's describing the concept ofmalt to me, and I'm like, this
sounds amazing, like, thissounds great.
And he wants to put a couple ofour beers on.
And uh Jeff pipes up from aroundthe corner, like, if you really
want your bar to be successful,you gotta get Misha to go there
every night instead of emergencyroom after he gets off work
(35:01):
here.
And obviously that's not theonly reason that malt's been
successful, but that's exactlywhat happened.
As soon as they opened, I wasjust I was over to malt every
night, and I'd get a spinach andartichoke dip instead of uh
instead of the pizza and thechicken wings at the emergency
room.
SPEAKER_00 (35:15):
That that spinach and artichoke dip is still class
dishes.
Even my mum and dad visited uhabout 18 months ago, and they
loved malt.
They've like that we had to goback because they love the
shuffle board, they love thebeers, the atmosphere, and they
were like, Can we go back tomalt tonight?
I was like, Yeah, sure, let'sgo.
SPEAKER_02 (35:32):
Well, and that's any any age, any gender, any you
know, any style, like it's justit's malt's got something for
everyone.
It's a great bar.
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
And then so what's your favorite Pasteur street
beer and your favoritenon-pasteur street beer?
SPEAKER_02 (35:46):
Sure.
So uh our double IPA is is stillmy favorite beer that we've ever
done.
Strong hoppy, it gets you itgets you where you need to go.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
You can't have too many though.
SPEAKER_02 (35:57):
Uh well you can't.
I can't, definitely not.
I remember one night uh I justthe the the phrase double IPA
all day came into my head, andwe were we were at uh the D1 tap
room with some of my friends,and I was buying around at
double IPAs for everyone.
Uh, and then some of them triedto order something else for the
second beer, and I was like, no,no, no, no, no, double IPA all
(36:19):
day.
So we were getting into it, anduh and then I got a call from my
boss at the time.
He's like, Oh, we're bringing uhsome people down from the from
the production facility.
Uh are you are you at thetavern?
Like, yeah.
And I'm like, alright, it's it'skind of an important, you know,
like be on your best behavior.
And I was like, oh yeah, yeah,I'll be fine.
(36:42):
A bunch of doubles at the time.
They all come down, we're we'resitting upstairs, and I'm still
just housing double IPAs.
And uh I I remember I was reallycharming.
I was just on my on definitelyon my best behavior.
Um but yeah, now in our D2chapter, and that's on the wall
double IPA all day.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
And what what is it what is the strength of the
double IPA?
8.7%.
8.7%.
Yeah, I could be a good one.
A nice sessionable double IPA.
Uh what's your favorite daytimeplace to drink or hang out in in
Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
Um The Boathouse in District 2 is a great uh daytime
spot, just on the river, nice,calm, quiet.
Obviously, they have a few ofour beers on top.
Uh they have great Bloody Marys,uh, great margaritas.
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
It's the first time the boathouse has come up and
I've been waiting for it.
Okay.
That's my favorite place withouta doubt.
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
Yeah, well that was one of the the boathouse is one
of the uh one of the originallike it was here long before I
moved here.
You know, it's like I said, whenwhen I first moved here, there
wasn't as many choices now,obviously, but there were some
good ones.
And yeah, the boathouse has beena standby for a long time.
Uh it's a great little spot inD2.
Uh the food's really goodnowadays.
(37:56):
And yeah, the drinks areexcellent.
That's and the the view, youknow, can't be.
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
Well, I like the boathouse because as we've
mentioned, Saigon is crazy, it'snoisy, it's busy.
And it's difficult to get out ofSaigon because it is so big and
it's such a metropolis.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:11):
And sometimes you can just be like, I just need to
get out, but you can't.
And then one day I realize,let's go to the boathouse.
And you get there and it'sserene and it's by the river and
it's calm and there's nobeeping.
And yeah, it's a good spot.
So that's now like my go-toplace of like I just need to get
out, but I can't go anywhere.
Nice.
Like boathouse kind of fillsthat fills that uh need.
(38:32):
Um now I mean maybe we'vecovered this, but why do you
stay in Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (38:37):
I think we have.
Um they pay me to drink beer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
Yeah, it's good enough reason.
Yeah.
The reason I asked that is justbecause maybe, and then you've
kind of said you didn't findthat, you haven't had as many
challenges, but I've had a lotof expatches speak to and even
locals.
It is a challenging environmentto live in.
Sure.
And so that's the reason I askis why do you stay?
Because I know for me there's akind of story to that.
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
Yeah.
Um, I mean, I've I've beensaying this for a while, like,
if if I find a place that I likemore in my travels, then maybe
I'll move there.
But so far Saigon's been it.
Fair enough, good answer.
Uh, what one thing would youchange about Saigon?
Nothing.
No, yeah, I mean uh I wasthinking of something about you
know the traffic police or thethe petty theft that happens,
(39:24):
but like, you know, every cityhas its its good and its bad,
and you gotta kinda take take itall as a piece.
Um I mean I love it here.
SPEAKER_00 (39:33):
There's nothing I would change.
Fair enough.
And what do you think is themost misunderstood thing about
Saigon?
SPEAKER_02 (39:40):
Um, just from like you said before, from people who
haven't been here, that it's uhyou know, that it's it's this
underdeveloped, you know,war-torn place.
And you know, obviously there'sa there's that history here.
Um but yeah, people don't peoplewho've never been here probably
don't realize what what a greatcity Saigon is and Hanoi as well
(40:01):
to a certain extent.
SPEAKER_00 (40:02):
There is that rivalry.
Every c every country's gottahave two cities that have a
rivalry, right?
Like you can't not.
Uh so talking about the boathouse and getting out of town,
what's your favorite place toget out of town?
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
Uh Hoyan uh it's it's so different from Saigon in
in in in all the nice ways.
Um just quiet, peaceful.
Uh it's the only place inVietnam I could see myself maybe
moving to someday, but that'd beway down the road.
Um yeah, it's I've been all overVietnam and Oyan's definitely my
(40:39):
my second favorite place after asaga.
SPEAKER_00 (40:42):
Last question What advice would you give to
somebody who's thinking of ofliving here?
SPEAKER_02 (40:48):
Come do it.
Any if you have any any uh anyidea that you might want to move
here, just go for it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
It's amazing.
Nice.
And so that's just finished upthere then.
So thank you so much.
Um what's next then for Pasto?
SPEAKER_02 (41:03):
Like I said, we've got a uh our first place in
Hoyan coming soon.
Um probably looking for anotherone in uh in Hanoi or Saigon
after that.
Um yeah, we just we're stillfocused on uh on the domestic
market.
Uh, you know, Vietnam is ourhome, it's where we live, it's
what we love.
Um yeah, and we've been gettingback to export as well recently.
(41:26):
Uh yeah, uh I don't want toreveal too many uh long-term
plans.
Um but yeah, just keep pumpingout good beers, uh, you know,
get it get them around to thepeople who want them and just
keep expanding.
SPEAKER_00 (41:41):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (41:42):
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (41:43):
You're very welcome.
It's been really interesting,it's good to chat to you.
And thank you to everyone forlistening to another episode of
7 Million Bites, Saigon Podcast.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of 7 Million Bites, a
Saigon Podcast.
Thanks to Michelle for joiningme today, and a massive thank
(42:04):
you as always to Lewis Wrightfor composing our theme tune and
Leoyn for designing our coverart, which you can see on our
Facebook page and the website7millionbikes.com.
If you want to get in touch,then you can send me a message
on Facebook or you can email meat 7millionbikes at gmail.com.
You can listen to futureepisodes on the website or on
Stitcher, SoundCloud, Spotify,and iTunes.
(42:27):
If you can leave us a review oniTunes, that would be massively
helpful.
It helps the podcast be morevisible so that more people can
listen and hopefully enjoy it asmuch as you are.
So thanks again for listening,and I hope you can tune in for
further episodes.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you're like me, you may useyour laptop at places where you
(42:49):
have to use public Wi-Fi.
This opens you up to digitalsnoopers, it's a massive
problem.
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These days it is vital that youkeep your data safe.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.