January 5, 2024 • 49 mins
Steph and Beth continue to listen to the audiobook version of Steph’s memoir, Discovering My Scars, and discuss what is revealed in chapter 10.
In this chapter, God reveals to Steph that she was sexually abused when she was a young child. Steph shares that truth with people she trusts and she finds both common ground and grief.
At the end of the episode, Steph and Beth offer you these Questions for Reflection:
(1) What do you think of how God reveals truth to people?
(2) Have you ever shared a hard truth with a friend and found common ground?
(3) Do you need solid proof to believe things in your own life (like the videotape Steph found), or do you trust your intuition?
(4) Have you discovered someone in your life was not a safe person? What was that reveal like for you?
Buy Discovering My Scars
Audiobook: https://amzn.to/2XCe9a3
Paperback: https://amzn.to/2O4U5dh
ebook: https://amzn.to/2r8mPsA
Steph: https://www.stephaniekostopoulos.com
Beth: http://bethdemme.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth (00:03):
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Steph (00:05):
Were we share personal experiences so we can learn from
each other.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
I've been in recovery for 17years and am the author of
Discovering my Scars, my memoirabout what's done in the
darkness eventually comes tolight.
Beth (00:16):
I'm a lawyer turned pastor who's all about self-awareness
and emotional health, because Iknow what it's like to have
neither of those things.
Steph (00:22):
Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone
through a recovery programtogether, and when I wanted to
start a podcast, she was theonly name that came to mind as
co-host.
Beth (00:29):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot
from sharing personalexperiences with Steph over the
years.
We value honest conversationsand we hope you do too.
On today's show, we're going tohave an honest conversation
titled Discovering My ScarsChapter 10.
And the show will close withquestions for reflection.
Steph (00:45):
We'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in
your own life.
Beth (00:48):
Maybe a quick summary what's happened up to this point
.
Steph (00:52):
Why don't you give a quick summary, Beth?
That would be great to see ifyou've been paying attention.
Beth (00:58):
So at this point in Steph's journey, as she is
telling it to us in the book,she has had a really
misunderstood experience withNSSI, which is non-suicidal
self-injury, and she actuallywas taken to a mental hospital
for a few days, which was atraumatic experience and
(01:19):
resulted in PTSD.
And so she's in treatment withDr Jill and she had been let's
see already in the book you'veworked at Apple and you've taken
time off to go home fromOrlando, to go back to
Tallahassee to really work onyour mental health and kind of
get I don't know if stable isexactly the right word, but to
(01:41):
get clear to get healthier, toget well, and yeah, that's kind
of where we pick up.
Steph (01:48):
Good job.
Yeah what a great review.
All right, so we'll get startedwith chapter 10.
Chapter 10, dear God, one thingI still had not fully addressed
in my recovery with Dr Jill waswhy I use NSSI as a coping
strategy.
Because of this, six yearsafter being released from
(02:09):
Nicole's place, in a year afterworking on my PTSD, the thoughts
were still there.
They were always there when Iwas upset, sad or just doing
normal everyday things.
When I needed any solution orresolution, my thoughts would
still turn to self-injury.
When self-injury didn't work, Ijust escaped my life.
One of my favorite pastimes waswatching a good movie or TV show
(02:31):
.
I had a great collection of myfavorites on DVD and would pop
one into the player when Ineeded an escape.
As technology changed, my DVDsturned into digital copies
living on my hard drive.
Then the world of streamingcame along and Ben's watching TV
shows became a new world for me.
Streaming made it so easy toescape for unknown hours into
(02:52):
countless shows I would havenever seen before, as I did my
normal Netflix search.
One day I came across Felicity,when it was originally on TV.
I had seen maybe one episode,but that's it, because the show
hadn't interested me.
But now, as an adult who hadgraduated from college, it
seemed like an interesting showto watch and not too much of a
commitment.
At four seasons Over a longweekend I watched it non-stop
(03:16):
During the super binge.
I even dreamed of the show whenI slept.
That's how I knew I had watchedtoo much, but since I was
really depressed, I couldn'tstop myself.
Now, so many years later, Idon't remember much about the
show.
I remember it was about collegeand that it brought me right
back to my college days.
It was triggering and itfrustrated me.
(03:37):
It frustrated me because sixyears after my college days, I
was still stuck in college.
I hadn't grown past myunhealthy coping habits.
I spent so long dealing with myPTSD.
Why is self-injury still such apart of me?
I thought I had done therapywith Dr Jill.
I had talked to my family andfriends about the hospital and
(03:58):
about what I had been goingthrough.
I was done.
I was mad.
I was mad at me.
No, I was mad at God.
I yelled and prayed to him.
I have done all this work.
I was tortured in a mentalhospital.
I was treated like dirt.
I went back for treatment andlearned that I have PTSD and I
worked through that.
I have done everything, I havetried to become healthy and
(04:19):
whole and still I deal with NSSI.
I wasn't on my knees when Isaid this.
I was flat on my face, lying onmy bed with my head where my
feet would be when I sleep.
I was getting no godly answersthrough my anger and tearful
prayer.
Beth (04:34):
That sounds like a truly low moment as you hear yourself
reading back the audiobook.
Do you remember that momentEmotionally?
Do you remember that moment?
Steph (04:46):
Yeah, it was definitely one of my lowest moments and all
of that frustration I can feel.
It's not something that I thinktoo much of now, all these
years later, but definitely justhearing the words and reading
back, I can remember exactlywhere I was, all of the things
(05:07):
that happened in that moment.
Beth (05:11):
Were there other times in your journey where you hit a low
point and you called out to Godlike this None that I can
remember specifically thisintense.
Steph (05:23):
I think I addressed it in the book, but I feel like I was
connecting with God duringthese low moments.
I was having a dialogue, butnot to this degree.
I would say yes, and I feellike that's what kept me from
anything worse.
What happened in this one timewas bad, but I do think I was
(05:47):
connected throughout my wholejourney.
Even though it was really hardand it seems like I was left and
lost, I still felt like that is.
What kept me here was that Istill did have that connection
to God.
Beth (06:00):
Yeah, you do talk in the book about a mustard seed space
faith.
I know that even even a littlegranule of faith can sustain us
in the hardest times and I thinkthat that's that you're turning
to that, to that seed You'returning to that.
You know reality in your life,in this moment.
Okay, let's see what happens.
Steph (06:23):
In the silence.
I began a Google search foranswers.
I typed in why do I strugglewith self injury?
Google brought me to pagesabout the disease.
Then I saw it.
I kept seeing it and couldn'tstop.
A common reason for coping withself injury is having been
sexually abused.
I had read this many yearsbefore.
(06:45):
It was always in the back of myhead.
I never told anyone and I neverlet myself think about it too
much.
I just told myself that thatdid not happen to me, that I
must be dealing with NSSI forother reasons.
But that day it struck me likea punch to the gut.
It stayed there and it's all Icould think about.
(07:05):
Then the pain and tension wentaway.
In that moment I knew thatsexual abuse have resulted in my
NSSI.
The room fell silent.
I couldn't hear the carsdriving outside my window.
My brain emptied.
My body lay flat on the bed.
I felt like an empty vessel,all the junk filling my brain
(07:27):
and body.
Pains were gone Just momentsbefore.
I had truly been at my lowest.
I had done every human thing Iknew to deal with my mental
health and still I had been at aloss.
That's when I had come to God,when I had nothing left.
I had yelled at him because Ihad nothing left to lose.
I yelled at him because I, ahuman he had made, was made so
(07:49):
flawed, and he wouldn't tell mewhy.
Yet now I was open to anything.
I threw out my human fears,doubts and speculations.
I was open to whatever thetruth might be.
In that moment my faith was thesize of a mustard seed.
Nothing was impossible.
Then God showed me my truth.
(08:10):
There was baby Stephanie in hercrib, around two years old.
My point of view was a highangle, as if from a security
camera.
I saw a close family member, acolumn person, see, walk into
the room.
His face was very clear to me.
I knew it was him right away.
He walked up to baby Stephanieand put his finger where it
(08:32):
didn't belong in a child ornon-concepting adult.
Baby Stephanie was still asleepand after this act he left.
In a flash the scene disappearedfrom my head.
Then there was just silence.
I was back in my head and Ithought was that real?
Did that really happen to me?
Am I seeing a memory?
How could it be a memory withme so young?
(08:55):
I wasn't even awake and then Iheard a voice in my head, which
I knew for sure was not mine.
It was God's voice.
This is your truth.
This is the truth behind yourin-SSI.
In that moment it all hit me.
My life hit me.
Everything became clear.
I traced moments of my life andit all clicked.
(09:16):
Thoughts and feelings I neverunderstood before all made sense
with this puzzle piece in place.
Beth (09:24):
Wow, I'm conflicted over whether God revealing that to
you is a gift.
Steph (09:33):
Hmm, interesting, I think it is, because I mean, it's
taken a lot of time andperspective and everything, but
there was always something darkinside, and I mean at age 14, I
was diagnosed with depression.
On the surface, I had no reasonto be depressed.
(09:54):
There was no reason.
There was nothing in my lifethat I should have been
depressed about, and I could nottell you why I was depressed.
And there was just always thisdarkness, this cloud, that I
didn't understand, and so it'sso painful to have the truth
revealed, but in reality it wasso freeing.
(10:17):
So, as much as no one wants hardstuff, hard stuff is hard, like
it's in the name.
We don't want to deal with hardstuff, but having gone through
this, I know the importance ofit because it released me and it
was allowed me to explore everytrace of my life and of my
(10:38):
existence and of the things thatare dark.
So when good stuff happens,like oh God made this happen.
And when bad stuff happens, wejust can't rationalize like what
happened, but, like for me, Ifeel like God is part of all of
that, and as much as we try tolook at bad stuff and we don't
(11:00):
want to deal with it, likethat's just part of life and
being human and stuff that wehave to go through, because bad
stuff happens in this world.
Really, bad stuff happens allthe time in this world and we
have to look at it.
We have to look and we have tounderstand it so that it doesn't
keep getting pushed in thedarkness and then not addressed
so it wouldn't be in your wayanymore.
(11:21):
Exactly, yeah, but it all cameat the right time, like I think
through, like when I wasstruggling with depression and
in a society if I had turned toalcohol or drugs or you know,
being going to parties andthings like that, like I feel
like this kind of thing couldhave been revealed in a much
(11:43):
worse way in time in life that Iwasn't ready for and then could
have just continued to moredestructive actions.
So, ultimately, like it was theperfect moment.
Now, looking back at it, and Ihad done so much work that
needed to be done before I couldeven understand this part of it
too.
There was a point where I waslike mad that I didn't know
(12:04):
about it before.
It's like, oh my gosh, I'm likein my 20s.
This was like when I was twolike why did it take this long?
But it took this long because Ihad to get to the place to
truly be able to cope with it.
That's a good point.
Beth (12:16):
And you had, you had some of your toolkit in place, you
know, you had your supportstructure in place, and so and
so the timing of when this truthwas revealed to you was
actually grace filled.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
It's hard to tell, it's hard tosay out loud.
Let me just speak for my ownexperience.
(12:38):
Even as a pastor, it is hardfor me to say out loud God has
said this to me, or God hasrevealed this to me, or this is
a truth that I know because ofthe Holy Spirit.
So I wonder if it was hard foryou, as as you were writing the
book and as you, you know, asyou have released the book into
(13:01):
the world, to to kind of be onrecord saying God showed me
something.
Steph (13:07):
Yes, uh for sure, that was definitely something that I
struggled with when it happened.
You know, explain it to people.
When I wrote it, when I publishit, yeah, every step of the way
, even hearing it now, like I'mlike, oh no, oh no, you know.
And there are, there aredifferent, um, like recreational
drugs and like mushrooms andthings like that, like, or
(13:30):
ayahuasca or something.
There's like these differentkinds of chemicals, reactions
that can happen when we use, youknow, different kinds of
substances and people go onjourneys to learn these things
about their life and when theytake these drugs and get into
these other states, they and I'mnot, I've never used anything
(13:51):
like that I'm not actually like,I don't have a full opinion on
really any of it.
I do know a lot of those thingsare are being tested in a
mental health capacity byprofessionals for a tool for,
you know, mental health recoveryand learning about these things
, because it puts you in adifferent state to be able to,
like, discover things.
(14:11):
I've seen programs about theseand things like that, and when I
hear it I'm like, wow, lookwhat was revealed.
And I don't think anything thatthey are crazy for late, these
reveals and things like that.
But when I hear someone, when Ihear someone say God told them
this or that, you know, even I,having gone through the
experience, even I am like, okay, right.
(14:32):
So it's definitely a weird spotto be in because on one hand,
it's literally happened to me,so I believe that it can happen,
but then, on the other hand,I'm like if I had just like
discovered this in some kind oflike ritual setting or something
, I feel like people wouldbelieve it more than more than
this.
So, in my experience, I dobelieve.
(14:55):
Well, all I can do is speak formyself.
I do believe I can get to theplace of this kind of thing
happening without, like, theassistance of drugs and stuff
like that.
Is it, was it freaking hard?
Yes, would I like recommendsomeone to get this depressed in
her life so they can read?
No, I wouldn't recommend it.
I mean, everyone is differentand all I can do is share my
(15:16):
journey.
But it's not I don't share myjourney to say you know, this is
the path.
Everyone's path is different.
I feel like there is no, nopath that looks the same.
But all I can do is encouragepeople to explore their lives
and to try to understand.
You know what has made them whothey are today and if they want
(15:36):
to make changes in that.
That's really what the story isabout.
It's not like God will tell youthese things when you get
really really depressed Right.
Beth (15:46):
But I do think that there is.
I do think that it takescourage, because there is a risk
of people saying, Steph, thisexperience is not verifiable,
Therefore, this is not reliable.
Steph (15:59):
You know, this is something that that your, that
your mind has invented, which iseasy to go to because you
already know I have mentalillness and so it's easy to say
your mind made this up 100%.
I've, I've said it all tomyself.
I've said all of that like whatI think people might say about
it.
But ultimately it doesn'tmatter, because I know this
(16:21):
happened, I'm secure in it, I'mconfident in it.
So you can say whatever youwant to me, but I've done a lot
of work to be secure in my truthand to not let other people
tell me this or that.
But yeah, I mean, does God tellyou stuff, reveal stuff to you?
Beth (16:38):
Yes, I've not had any past experiences reallumined.
I don't think none are comingto mind off the top of my head,
but I do feel like I getguidance from God and I, you
know, I have an act of prayerlife and actually wish that I
would spend more time incontemplation because I think
(16:59):
that's where I really feel asense of God's direction.
But yeah, I definitely.
I mean, listen, I would not bea pastor if I did not think
that's what God wanted me to do.
I would, I would be happilyunemployed.
So I definitely feel like Godhas, has talked and does
continue to talk to me.
Steph (17:20):
Do you feel like you have to be in a conscious prayer
setting to hear from God?
Beth (17:26):
I think that's when I am aware of it, and sometimes I
mean, really, hindsight is abeautiful gift, right, and so
sometimes there'll be a seriesof things that will happen.
And then in hindsight I can gooh, I see it now, right.
Oh, I see how God was directingme or inviting me or nudging me
in a way that I didn't reallyhave an awareness of in the
(17:48):
moment.
Steph (17:49):
I mean, hindsight is good , but isn't it, wouldn't it be
better if we could see hindsightin the moment Like, instead of
having to see it after and thenlike, oh man, I could have been
like way less stressed aboutthat if I had realized it in the
moment.
Yeah, I mean, wouldn't it bebetter if we could just like
understand it just instantly?
Beth (18:08):
It would probably be easier, yeah, but it would
probably be less human.
Steph (18:11):
Yes, that would be more robot and that's not us yeah.
Beth (18:16):
So in the book, god has revealed this to you and you
immediately felt relief.
Yes, interesting.
Steph (18:25):
I think it's because it had been, you know, 20 something
years of draining on me withoutrealizing what it was.
So it's, finally I was able tosee the source of the drain.
Beth (18:36):
Yeah, you know I often have.
I often will say to people thatgrief is one of those things
that will wait for you, butuntil just now I had not made
the connection that it's notjust grief.
Everything that we need to workon waits for us and weighs on
us, ways on us and can erode ourwell-being as it waits, and so
(19:04):
as soon as you had thisimportant piece of the puzzle,
it wasn't draining you anymorebecause it wasn't waiting.
Yeah, Interesting.
Steph (19:18):
As long as I can remember , I had an obsession with person
C liking me.
I wanted him to think I wascool and want to spend time with
me.
I never understood why I didn'thave these feelings toward
other family members.
Now I saw that I was the victimof trauma.
My brain had rewired itself andhad sought approval from my
abuser.
Almost two years before Ilearned of my truth, my mom and
(19:41):
I were out of town staying withperson C.
Since the musical Wicked cameout, my favorite singer has been
Adina Menzel.
I'm a fan of everything shedoes Love her, love her voice,
love it all.
In 2010, I saw that she wasgoing on tour and would be on
tour with me.
I saw that she was going ontour and would be in person C's
town.
This was the first time I wasold enough to drink with person
(20:04):
C, so he was excited to teach meto drink tequila.
We had a couple of shots at hishouse with my mom and person
C's husband.
Yes, person C is gay, notpartaking.
We were just having our ownlittle party, carefree and
really careless.
He had the bright idea to walkthe streets at night, so person
C filled us each a full cup oftequila and we were on our way.
(20:25):
My mom fought this, but heconvinced her we were fine.
Person C said don't you trustme?
Deep down?
She did not, but she couldn'tstop us from leaving.
I should mention that I hadnever done a lot of drinking,
but I was excited to be withperson C and he was cool, so I
wanted him to think I was cooltoo.
I never drank when I was underage or got drunk with my friends
(20:48):
, but all my common sense wentout the window when I drank with
him.
We were walking the streets,made a few stops and then
everything went blank.
I don't remember anything else.
The next thing I saw werepolice officers, feet.
My head was on the concrete andperson C was in my ear, yelling
at me to get up.
Still to this day I can hearhis voice right up in my ear
(21:09):
with force and anger Get up, getup off the ground.
I struggled to stand.
It was so hard because I feltunbalanced and my legs didn't
work.
Then I heard person C say tothe officers she's my family,
she's fine, we're headed home.
The officers left.
I half walked, half held upback to his condo.
When we arrived I collapsed inthe middle of his floor on his
(21:30):
rug.
I threw up most of the nightand my mom looked after me.
She later told me how scaredshe was and that she feared I
might have alcohol poisoning.
The next day I felt like death.
I'd never felt so weirdly sickbefore.
I could hardly move.
I felt so embarrassed that Idrank too much and sorry my mom
had to take care of me the wholeday.
(21:52):
I couldn't do anything but justlay on the couch.
Then it came time to go to theconcert and I didn't feel any
better.
But I got enough strength toget on the subway.
When we got off at our stop Iran to a trash can to throw up.
Not a proud moment, not proudat all.
The concert was great.
Adina was charming as ever, butit was a rough day when I was
(22:12):
fully sober and could processwhat had happened.
It struck me as also strange.
I want a person C to like me,so I had drinks with him.
He kept giving me drinks, so Ithought he knew what enough
would be for me.
I trusted him to keep me safeand not let me drink too much,
just as my friends had done forme in the past.
But he didn't stop me.
This was the first time Irealized person C might not be a
(22:36):
safe man.
And now, two years later, I waslearning the truth of what
happened to me when I was twoyears old.
He didn't keep me safe at twoand he didn't keep me safe at 24
.
Beth (22:47):
What do you think happened ?
Where did the police officercome from?
Why were you on the ground?
Steph (22:54):
I must have passed out, I guess I have no idea.
And isn't that crazy like thatin that moment a police officer
would be there too.
Right Like so.
How long was that amount?
Of time Right.
Beth (23:05):
Yeah, I mean, was this the kind of neighborhood where
police officers were?
Police officers were just likewalking a beat.
Steph (23:11):
It was a major city, so I would assume they were just
kind of around.
Yeah, I don't even really knowwhere we were, like he lived in
a city, but I don't know wherewe were in the city Interesting,
ok, and you don't rememberwhere you went, right, or how
many places you went.
We I think we weren't, we didn'tgo in anywhere.
And he also brought morealcohol too.
(23:32):
Like he like poured like a bigcup full and I think it was just
tequila that he put in it.
And my mom was like, no, don'tbring that, Just bring water or
something.
And like he like pretended likehe poured it out, but he just
like kept alcohol in it.
That's all we had with us wasalcohol.
So someone that never reallydrinks and then is just purely
(23:54):
drinking alcohol I mean now as alike full grown adult I know I
can have like one drink.
Then I'd have to drink like awhole water than one drink if I
was to.
But I really have like, if Idrink I have like one drink and
that's it.
And.
Beth (24:08):
I don't drink tequila, obviously.
Yeah, I mean also like part ofme, and then maybe this is just
the adult in me, but it's like,why would someone think that was
a good time?
Like let's leave the house,where we're safe and comfortable
, and go walk on the streets todrink some more, but not go to
any like bars or clubs, I don'tknow, it just doesn't sound fun
(24:30):
to me.
Steph (24:31):
Well, he sexually abused me at two years old, so he
doesn't seem like the most standup smart person that there ever
was.
Yeah, so this happened and afew I don't remember how long
it's been, maybe like a fewyears ago I was processing like
(24:54):
sometimes these things that havehappened to me in my past, so
like something will happen in mylife currently, and then I'll
have like flashbacks to thesemoments but like process other
things that happened.
Like at this time I didn't havethis, this was all I knew.
But like a few years ago I likeprocess this and I had another
(25:17):
one of those God moments whereyou know he just talking,
talking, talking and I'm sorryto interrupt because I know that
you hate that, but are yousaying God's a verbal processor
and that God interrupts?
No, I'm saying that God will.
I feel that God will speak tome at different times in
different ways.
So there was other things thathappened during this too.
(25:39):
I kind of cut it down.
Like he called one of my goodfriends, like when we were like,
oh, we were sitting on thesteps of a church at one point
and he called one of my goodfriends and he I had never
talked to this friend before andhe was just like, hey, man,
keep her safe, just always, keepher safe.
(25:59):
Like really, just, you know,whatever you do is keep her safe
, like something like that.
Like I don't remember this, butmy friend told me this.
It was a male friend of mineand he told me that and he said
it was really weird because heobviously was coherent and on
the other end of the line, so hedidn't know it was going on,
but he just heard like thisperson saying these things and
(26:20):
he thought that was really weird.
And so what I believe happenedwhen I passed out or before I
passed out is, I believe thatperson C told me what happened
when I was two.
He was drinking and was tryingto finally like get it off his
chest and like make amends insome capacity so that he could
(26:46):
like move on.
And so what I believe is hetold me, maybe on the steps of
the church, I don't know, thatwould be wonderful.
And then I passed out after hetold me because it was like too
much for me to take.
And then but I don't have anyconscious memory of that, but I
do believe that's what happenedand that also sets the stage of
(27:09):
why he thought it was a goodidea to get us really drunk and
then walk the streets, Becausethat might have been, that may
have been.
His plan was to finally tell methis so that he could like move
on and feel like he's like donehis part.
And so I do think that makesthe story piece together a
(27:30):
little bit more.
In the darkness of my bedroom,after life had become so much
clearer to me, I spoke with God.
This talk was nothing like I'dever experienced.
When I say talk, I mean I couldhear his words in my head and
knew they were not my own.
When I talked back, I formedthe words in my head.
(27:52):
It was not audible, talkinglike with another human.
As he spoke, he sounded like me, he used words I use and talked
on my level.
I asked him why.
He told me that he speaks to melike this because it's the most
comfortable way for me tounderstand.
He didn't sound like a boomingvoice from above or use language
(28:12):
like thou and thee.
He talked like a friend so Icould understand every word.
This was the first time I hadexperienced a conversation with
God.
I had never heard his voicethis clear before.
I asked him questions about mylife, about where he was at
certain points and about thefuture.
I asked him where he was when Icut my arm so many times.
I was there.
(28:33):
I was always there with you,holding the scissors, making
sure you didn't cut too deep.
I cried with you when the painwas too much, God told me.
Growing up, I was alwaysskeptical when church people
would say they had talked to God.
I had thought there's no way.
That's a thing.
It's never happened to me, soit must not be real.
(28:53):
Once it did happen to me, Iknew that it was very real.
Since that night I have hadconversations with God on many
occasions.
It's real and mind-blowing.
Every time, After the reveal ofmy truth, I had to tell someone
.
Through therapy I had learnedthat I couldn't just leave
things like this inside.
At the time, the closest personto me, both physically and
(29:14):
emotionally, was my Appleco-worker, Jason.
We lived in the same apartmentcomplex and had developed a
long-time friendship.
I walked down to his door andknocked.
We sat down on his floor and Italked.
I told him everything and as Ishared all the emotions started
to hit me.
I started crying more and moreas I tried hard to get the words
(29:35):
out.
When I finished, Jason wasquiet.
I could tell he cared deeplyand believed everything I had
said.
He was just trying to find theright words.
What he said next I could havenever imagined.
He told me about the sexualabuse that happened to him when
he was around seven years old.
He had let it drown from hisbrain when it happened, but when
(29:57):
he was a teenager his abusercame to him to apologize.
His abuser, also a familymember, was going through
recovery and needed to makeamends with Jason.
Jason forgave him.
My words brought all this backfor Jason.
Jason told me about the event,his emotions and his abuser like
in my case, it was a man.
We were both crying.
(30:18):
Now, realizing this hugerevelation bonded us even closer
as friends.
He ended by telling me he hadnever shared that with anyone
else.
He had kept it all lockedinside.
Beth (30:30):
This is probably the same obvious, but you had permission
to share this information.
Jason remains a good friend inyour life.
I see this as another.
I see Jason's presence in yourlife in that moment as another
moment of grace that you hadsomebody who was not only safe
(30:52):
to process it with, but somebodywho could relate to what you
had experienced and help youshare it without any sense of
shame or responsibility.
It's one of those things thatsometimes, when we're mistreated
(31:13):
, we think that it's our fault,and you had somebody with you
who, because of a similarexperience, understood that no,
this is no child's fault.
Steph (31:23):
Yeah, I mean and that's part of the mental toll that
sexual abuse takes on someone,though is the blaming yourself
and all of that.
Yeah, but it was so.
I mean it was just such apowerful moment like that.
He had gone through verysimilar things and had the
abuser actually talk to him andwe've talked about it since and
(31:47):
things like that, and it wasstill hard, even though the
abuser apologized and that'sstill that trauma happened to
you and he, I believe he didn'tremember it happening, but it
all flashback when the abuserbrought it up to him, like that
it was revealed and he never Idon't know if he ever told
anyone else about it and it wasjust kind of something like he
(32:09):
stuffed away.
But yeah, I mean, I think andthat's also showed, it's like,
whether your abuser admits it ordoesn't, it's still hard.
I didn't wanna lock myexperience away.
I had locked away in a coldplace for too long and it had
too much power over me.
I was not gonna give my abuserany more power.
(32:32):
So shortly after I went toTallahassee to tell my parents.
They were very respectful andlistened intently when I shared
my truth.
They were both trying to figureout the timeline, as they
didn't remember a person seeever visiting me in Florida when
I was a baby.
I didn't have all the answersand I didn't need solid proof to
know the truth.
I could tell that my dad wastrying really hard to not say
(32:54):
the wrong thing.
He had enough training to knowyou don't blame the victim and
call them a liar.
But to this day I can't tellfor sure what he really thinks
or if he truly believes me.
I just needed them to know andI accomplished that.
The last step was confronting myabuser.
I had many unanswered questions.
How will I react when I see himin person?
(33:15):
Will he ever admit to me whathe did?
Can I forgive him without himsaying sorry?
I didn't wanna wait and Ididn't wanna put much thought
into it, so I bought a planeticket to see him.
I arrived and met him in thefood area of Amal.
I didn't accuse him of anythingor bring up the past.
We just talked for about twohours on various topics.
(33:36):
I can't even remember most ofthem now.
At the time I was 26 and workingmy first real job at Apple.
He talked about himself in his20s and how confusing and hard
that time was for him.
He told me of his first big jobin 1985.
He also told me about comingout to his friends and family in
1986, my birth year.
As he talked, I started to dothe math and realized he was the
(34:00):
age I was now when he abused me.
It was a chilling realization.
Ultimately, my goal for themeeting was to see how I would
react when I saw him and if Icould still be in the same room
with him.
I learned that I could, buttimes had changed.
I was not seeking his approvalanymore.
I didn't see him as specialanymore.
I saw him as a sad, aging andangry man.
(34:23):
The meeting was over and that'sthe last time I saw him.
I have not made any effort tosee him and he has done nothing
to reach out to me.
After all that, I have forgivenhim, not for him, but for me.
He has no control over my lifeanymore.
Beth (34:41):
I have to stop you because I have so many questions.
Okay, I know that you are aperson who thinks through things
before you do them, and so Iknow before you bought that
plane ticket, you thought aboutwhat is this conversation gonna
be like?
Why did you tell him you werecoming into town?
Steph (34:59):
I had a friend that lived nearby that I stayed with, and
so that was my line is I wasgoing to see that friend and I
just wanted to catch up with himwhile you were there.
Beth (35:09):
Yeah.
Steph (35:10):
It was only for like a day or two, like it was very
short amount of time.
I don't remember actually doingmuch when I was there, because
that was the sole reason ofgoing was to have that
conversation, but theconversation never turned to
what happened when you were two.
No, because I gave space forthat conversation.
If that was something like, Ikept the conversation kind of
(35:32):
specific to you know lifeconversation, not just like
how's the weather.
So the space was there, like Iset the stage for that to come
up if he wanted to, but itwasn't as a victim in this.
I didn't need to have thatmoment of me bringing it up and
(35:53):
him denying it because thatwasn't going to do anything to
help.
For you know, I didn't want toget to a place where he's like
oh my gosh, you're a liar, doall of those kinds of things,
because I know I'm not, I knowyou did this, but I also like
forcing someone to say something.
Like even if he was like I'm sosorry, I'm the worst, even if
(36:17):
he had like completelyapologized, it still would have
been hard.
So just like it was for Jason,you know, when his abuser
actually told him it's stillAlthough that trauma was still
really hard.
So I was giving him the spaceto say something.
But even if he didn't saysomething, I was going to be
able to let it go and I justneeded that last seeing of him,
(36:39):
cause the last time I had seenhim.
Well, the last time was thedrinking Um, and so I just
needed that like final moment tomake peace with You're no
longer in my life and you nolonger have control of me.
Beth (36:56):
Yeah, it's really interesting and, I think, great
that you were able to getclosure without giving him the
opportunity to victimize youagain, I denying what he had
done again.
I mean, I I'm going to soundlike a broken record, but I just
see grace all over this, youknow, because there was
(37:16):
something about that moment withhim that was closure for you
that you needed, even if it,even if it isn't what somebody
on the outside would say oh,what you needed was for him to
admit you know and apologize.
Steph (37:32):
No, you didn't actually need that, that's a luxury that
most of us don't get, and Ithink that was something that I
had to learn.
The hard way is, or just it wasa hard reality is like the
world is not a perfect,wonderful place and the things
that we need and we deserve andwe should have don't happen.
(37:53):
And so how can I forgivesomeone without them?
You know apologizing, and Ihave learned that through these
things in my life that I don't Ican let you go without you
apologizing or even admittingany of this to me, because it's
pretty rare that you get that.
Beth (38:13):
Well, and like you say, you did it for yourself.
It was all yeah, I mean there'sno, there's no need to give him
the gift of forgiving him, butyou needed to let it go for your
own mental health.
Steph (38:27):
Yeah, and I wonder, you know, I think I don't have no
idea where he is, what he'sdoing, any of that, if he's ever
been sorrowful, anything likethat.
But I do like, as we're talking, I wonder like what if he's
actually went through recoveryprogram one day and he needed to
make his amends, because that'spart of it, you know we've gone
through recovery program andthat's part of it is you make
(38:49):
amends, you actually recognizethe bad that you've done and
apologize to people.
I wonder, like if he came to meone day and said I'm sorry for
this, ta-da-da-da-da.
Um, I think it would be a veryeasy conversation for me because
I had already let it go and himapologizing would actually not
(39:10):
change any of the progress andwork I've done.
Uh, it would be for him Really.
Yeah, it would be for him, andI would be able to tell him all
of this work that I've done andhow long I've known and all of
this, and let him know that Ihad already forgiven him years
before.
But that would be for him.
All of this was for me, was forme to let go of it, and if he
(39:30):
finally one day realizes theimportance of admitting the
whores he's done and wants tomake amends, I'll be there to
let him know.
I've already done that.
But also, I've never had someonelike tell me something like
like that, that kind of likewell, I have I.
Um, when I was in high schoolearly high school, around a
(39:52):
Christmas time, my dad told methat he had a daughter that was
older than us, that he hadbefore he was married to my mom,
and so he was trying to sharethis with us.
And, you know, be open andhonest, which is great but when
you're on someone else'stimetable, then it just kind of
(40:13):
that just derailed my life.
That news like that justchanged everything I knew about
life, and so I had to deal withthat right in that moment when
that person chose to relievethat stress in their life, like
he chose that he was tired ofkeeping this a secret so he was
(40:33):
going to tell us.
But then that becomes a burdenon the person to have to then
deal with that right then.
And so, in actuality, if personsee had told me this before I
was ready to to take it on, thatwould have really done another
derail in my life.
But the fact that I've alreadydealt with this and cause it was
(40:54):
really about me and letting goof all of this.
It wasn't really about personsee.
But if they, if, if one daythey are like I'm going to admit
it to them, I need to apologize, then I won't be derailed
because I've already dealt withit.
I mean, I probably will stillhave some processing, but I've
already dealt with it and itwon't derail my life like a
(41:15):
bombshell would if somebody justWell, and that's that's why, in
recovery you, you admit whatyou've done and you make amends
in a way that is not harmful tosomeone else.
Beth (41:27):
Yes, make amends wherever possible, except when to do so
would cause harm.
Steph (41:34):
Yeah, A few weeks later I drove to Tallahassee and talked
to Dr Jill about all therealizations and actions I had
taken.
When I was finished, she toldme that since our very first
session she had suspected that Ihad been abused.
This shocked me.
How did she know?
Why didn't she bring it upbefore?
She shared that many of mystruggles signaled that I had
(41:57):
been sexually abused.
She didn't know by who or atwhat age, but she had always
suspected it.
This was very interesting to meand I was glad she hadn't said
anything before.
I believe the truth wasrevealed in the right way at the
right time.
While I was in Tallahasseesharing with my parents, my mom
had given me some old picturesfor me to digitize in a VHS tape
(42:18):
.
She didn't know what was on itor where it came from.
Years prior I had collected allour home movies and spent weeks
converting them into digitalfiles, so it was strange that I
had missed one.
I took the tape back to Orlando, assuming it had gotten
misplaced from all the otherhome movies.
When I began to transfer it, Isaw some old random footage from
(42:41):
when my brother and I wereyoung.
I watched as it transferred inreal time toward the middle of
the tape I couldn't believe whatI saw.
It was a one and a half minuteclip from 1988.
In the clip my mom is in theshot.
This struck me as strangebecause she was usually behind
the camera.
I saw and heard my mom talkingabout the day.
I saw my grandma setting thetable.
(43:02):
Then my mom said this is personC, his first time here in a
long time.
She says this as he walks intothe frame.
Then I saw me walking like atwo year old, with short hair
and a sun dress on.
Mom said this is the first timeperson C has seen Stephanie.
The clip ends with him givingme a drink of juice, asking if I
(43:22):
want anymore.
Apparently I didn't and Iwalked away.
This was proof that person Chad in fact visited Florida.
When I was a baby I alreadyknew it was true.
I didn't need the tape to proveit, but I sent it to my mom as
she was skeptical he had evervisited me in Florida.
She was very surprised to seethe clip.
(43:43):
I think it helped her toprocess my truth that I had
shared with her.
Beth (43:48):
Roll the footage right.
Steph (43:51):
Here you go.
You needed proof.
Yeah, that was Just crazy.
Like the fact that I hadalready transferred all the home
movies, the fact that there wasone random one that she found
and that's the last one she everfound Like there's not been any
tape since then and that thatclip was on it.
Beth (44:10):
Yes, I mean, and that it came into existence the weekend
that you told them what God hadrevealed to you.
I mean, that's incredibletiming.
Steph (44:21):
And some other things that have happened since I
published the book.
Like my grandmother read thebook.
Actually, my mom wasn't sureshe wanted my.
It was my mom's mom.
My mom wasn't sure she wantedher to read it because she
thought it might be upsettingsome of the stuff, but my
grandmother actually ordered itfrom my website and read the
book and I was like so she gotit and she read it and she was
(44:47):
this was a few years ago.
She's since passed, I think ayear or two ago.
She read the book and we wentdown there to see her because
she was sick with something.
She didn't that's not when shepassed, but and so we went to
see her in the hospital orurgent care or something, and
she like came close she is likehad me come close and she was
(45:12):
like I read your book and I waslike, ok, I'm like I'm nervous,
I'm like oh gosh, and she's likeshe said I want you to know,
and she's also always called meher girl.
She's like you're my girl andshe's always.
She has a couple ofgrandchildren but and a couple
of girl grandchildren, but shealways like just like felt like
(45:34):
a protective closeness to meover all the other ones.
In that clip my grandmother wasthere.
I even said it.
And I wrote this book, obviouslybefore she read the book.
So the fact that I mentionedthat my grandmother was sitting
there, yeah, it's even crazythat I wrote that in the book,
but my grandmother was therewhen this happened and she told
(45:55):
me that she always felt likesomething happened to me.
From personcy, she says shealways thought that something
happened and she had thisnagging feeling but she had no
idea what it was, how to bringit up Like, and imagine that.
Imagine being an adult thereand thinking something happened
but having no clue, and see, andprobably she probably had a
(46:17):
feeling that something probablysaw a difference in me, like
from what before happened andafter happened, then she
probably saw something withinperson C2 and to have no, no
proof in any sense, to havenothing to go on, but realizing
she has no idea.
You know how, what do you do inthat situation?
(46:37):
And obviously she didn't doanything and she told me that
she had always just felt likesomething happened and just had
always been, it felt protectiveof me because of that and just
always felt like, convincedherself, like she was just over,
like oh no, it didn't happenwhatever.
And so this actually gave herso much peace to know that she
(46:58):
was right and that, like, thatfeeling was valid and there was
no part of me that was upsetthat she didn't say anything,
because what would she have said?
What would, what would havebeen done?
It just was like another,though, validation of the truth
of this.
You know, to have this adultsay I was there, I felt like
(47:21):
something happened, but I had noidea what it was, and for her
to get the comfort in readingthat and to see where I am now
too, like she saw I mean sheread the whole book, she saw
that the progress I've done, andso she just had this comfort
that she never had about thesituation.
So, yet again, another like justpowerful moment that happened
(47:43):
by sharing this, something thatI would have never expected,
that my grandmother would havebeen affected by this but, like
I said, she passed away a coupleof years after having read my
book, maybe maybe two yearsafter.
I could see the relief likethis understanding brought her.
And you know, there's a part ofme that's like if all of the
(48:07):
work I've done and writing thebook and all of this, if the
only thing it did was to give arelief and a closer to my
grandmother.
You know it's worth it, but tonot even realize like the impact
that this has on more than meand why it's important.
(48:30):
If I didn't understand itbefore, you know I understood it
then in that moment.
The importance of sharing, andespecially the hard stuff.
None of us want to share it.
I don't want to.
It's not like I was like, yay,this is going to be the best
thing to write this.
Beth (48:44):
I'm so glad this happened to me so I can talk about it.
Steph (48:47):
Yes, and.
But you just never know whatsharing your story, how, what
the impact of that will be, andyou may never know.
I may never know exactly whatthat is, but I just knew it had
to be done At the IndieVeeJepposo we have questions for
(49:10):
reflection.
These are questions based ontoday's show that Beth will read
and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself.
Beth (49:16):
Number one what do you think of how God reveals truth
to people?
Number two have you ever shareda hard truth with a friend and
found common ground?
Number three do you need solidproof to believe things in your
own life like the videotape, ordo you trust your intuition?
And number four have youdiscovered someone in your life
(49:39):
was not a safe person?
What was that reveal like foryou?
Steph (49:45):
This has been the Discovering Arts Gras podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Steph (00:05):
Were we share personal experiences so we can learn from
each other.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
I've been in recovery for 17years and am the author of
Discovering my Scars, my memoirabout what's done in the
darkness eventually comes tolight.
Beth (00:16):
I'm a lawyer turned pastor who's all about self-awareness
and emotional health, because Iknow what it's like to have
neither of those things.
Steph (00:22):
Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone
through a recovery programtogether, and when I wanted to
start a podcast, she was theonly name that came to mind as
co-host.
Beth (00:29):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot
from sharing personalexperiences with Steph over the
years.
We value honest conversationsand we hope you do too.
On today's show, we're going tohave an honest conversation
titled Discovering My ScarsChapter 10.
And the show will close withquestions for reflection.
Steph (00:45):
We'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in
your own life.
Beth (00:48):
Maybe a quick summary what's happened up to this point
.
Steph (00:52):
Why don't you give a quick summary, Beth?
That would be great to see ifyou've been paying attention.
Beth (00:58):
So at this point in Steph's journey, as she is
telling it to us in the book,she has had a really
misunderstood experience withNSSI, which is non-suicidal
self-injury, and she actuallywas taken to a mental hospital
for a few days, which was atraumatic experience and
(01:19):
resulted in PTSD.
And so she's in treatment withDr Jill and she had been let's
see already in the book you'veworked at Apple and you've taken
time off to go home fromOrlando, to go back to
Tallahassee to really work onyour mental health and kind of
get I don't know if stable isexactly the right word, but to
(01:41):
get clear to get healthier, toget well, and yeah, that's kind
of where we pick up.
Steph (01:48):
Good job.
Yeah what a great review.
All right, so we'll get startedwith chapter 10.
Chapter 10, dear God, one thingI still had not fully addressed
in my recovery with Dr Jill waswhy I use NSSI as a coping
strategy.
Because of this, six yearsafter being released from
(02:09):
Nicole's place, in a year afterworking on my PTSD, the thoughts
were still there.
They were always there when Iwas upset, sad or just doing
normal everyday things.
When I needed any solution orresolution, my thoughts would
still turn to self-injury.
When self-injury didn't work, Ijust escaped my life.
One of my favorite pastimes waswatching a good movie or TV show
(02:31):
.
I had a great collection of myfavorites on DVD and would pop
one into the player when Ineeded an escape.
As technology changed, my DVDsturned into digital copies
living on my hard drive.
Then the world of streamingcame along and Ben's watching TV
shows became a new world for me.
Streaming made it so easy toescape for unknown hours into
(02:52):
countless shows I would havenever seen before, as I did my
normal Netflix search.
One day I came across Felicity,when it was originally on TV.
I had seen maybe one episode,but that's it, because the show
hadn't interested me.
But now, as an adult who hadgraduated from college, it
seemed like an interesting showto watch and not too much of a
commitment.
At four seasons Over a longweekend I watched it non-stop
(03:16):
During the super binge.
I even dreamed of the show whenI slept.
That's how I knew I had watchedtoo much, but since I was
really depressed, I couldn'tstop myself.
Now, so many years later, Idon't remember much about the
show.
I remember it was about collegeand that it brought me right
back to my college days.
It was triggering and itfrustrated me.
(03:37):
It frustrated me because sixyears after my college days, I
was still stuck in college.
I hadn't grown past myunhealthy coping habits.
I spent so long dealing with myPTSD.
Why is self-injury still such apart of me?
I thought I had done therapywith Dr Jill.
I had talked to my family andfriends about the hospital and
(03:58):
about what I had been goingthrough.
I was done.
I was mad.
I was mad at me.
No, I was mad at God.
I yelled and prayed to him.
I have done all this work.
I was tortured in a mentalhospital.
I was treated like dirt.
I went back for treatment andlearned that I have PTSD and I
worked through that.
I have done everything, I havetried to become healthy and
(04:19):
whole and still I deal with NSSI.
I wasn't on my knees when Isaid this.
I was flat on my face, lying onmy bed with my head where my
feet would be when I sleep.
I was getting no godly answersthrough my anger and tearful
prayer.
Beth (04:34):
That sounds like a truly low moment as you hear yourself
reading back the audiobook.
Do you remember that momentEmotionally?
Do you remember that moment?
Steph (04:46):
Yeah, it was definitely one of my lowest moments and all
of that frustration I can feel.
It's not something that I thinktoo much of now, all these
years later, but definitely justhearing the words and reading
back, I can remember exactlywhere I was, all of the things
(05:07):
that happened in that moment.
Beth (05:11):
Were there other times in your journey where you hit a low
point and you called out to Godlike this None that I can
remember specifically thisintense.
Steph (05:23):
I think I addressed it in the book, but I feel like I was
connecting with God duringthese low moments.
I was having a dialogue, butnot to this degree.
I would say yes, and I feellike that's what kept me from
anything worse.
What happened in this one timewas bad, but I do think I was
(05:47):
connected throughout my wholejourney.
Even though it was really hardand it seems like I was left and
lost, I still felt like that is.
What kept me here was that Istill did have that connection
to God.
Beth (06:00):
Yeah, you do talk in the book about a mustard seed space
faith.
I know that even even a littlegranule of faith can sustain us
in the hardest times and I thinkthat that's that you're turning
to that, to that seed You'returning to that.
You know reality in your life,in this moment.
Okay, let's see what happens.
Steph (06:23):
In the silence.
I began a Google search foranswers.
I typed in why do I strugglewith self injury?
Google brought me to pagesabout the disease.
Then I saw it.
I kept seeing it and couldn'tstop.
A common reason for coping withself injury is having been
sexually abused.
I had read this many yearsbefore.
(06:45):
It was always in the back of myhead.
I never told anyone and I neverlet myself think about it too
much.
I just told myself that thatdid not happen to me, that I
must be dealing with NSSI forother reasons.
But that day it struck me likea punch to the gut.
It stayed there and it's all Icould think about.
(07:05):
Then the pain and tension wentaway.
In that moment I knew thatsexual abuse have resulted in my
NSSI.
The room fell silent.
I couldn't hear the carsdriving outside my window.
My brain emptied.
My body lay flat on the bed.
I felt like an empty vessel,all the junk filling my brain
(07:27):
and body.
Pains were gone Just momentsbefore.
I had truly been at my lowest.
I had done every human thing Iknew to deal with my mental
health and still I had been at aloss.
That's when I had come to God,when I had nothing left.
I had yelled at him because Ihad nothing left to lose.
I yelled at him because I, ahuman he had made, was made so
(07:49):
flawed, and he wouldn't tell mewhy.
Yet now I was open to anything.
I threw out my human fears,doubts and speculations.
I was open to whatever thetruth might be.
In that moment my faith was thesize of a mustard seed.
Nothing was impossible.
Then God showed me my truth.
(08:10):
There was baby Stephanie in hercrib, around two years old.
My point of view was a highangle, as if from a security
camera.
I saw a close family member, acolumn person, see, walk into
the room.
His face was very clear to me.
I knew it was him right away.
He walked up to baby Stephanieand put his finger where it
(08:32):
didn't belong in a child ornon-concepting adult.
Baby Stephanie was still asleepand after this act he left.
In a flash the scene disappearedfrom my head.
Then there was just silence.
I was back in my head and Ithought was that real?
Did that really happen to me?
Am I seeing a memory?
How could it be a memory withme so young?
(08:55):
I wasn't even awake and then Iheard a voice in my head, which
I knew for sure was not mine.
It was God's voice.
This is your truth.
This is the truth behind yourin-SSI.
In that moment it all hit me.
My life hit me.
Everything became clear.
I traced moments of my life andit all clicked.
(09:16):
Thoughts and feelings I neverunderstood before all made sense
with this puzzle piece in place.
Beth (09:24):
Wow, I'm conflicted over whether God revealing that to
you is a gift.
Steph (09:33):
Hmm, interesting, I think it is, because I mean, it's
taken a lot of time andperspective and everything, but
there was always something darkinside, and I mean at age 14, I
was diagnosed with depression.
On the surface, I had no reasonto be depressed.
(09:54):
There was no reason.
There was nothing in my lifethat I should have been
depressed about, and I could nottell you why I was depressed.
And there was just always thisdarkness, this cloud, that I
didn't understand, and so it'sso painful to have the truth
revealed, but in reality it wasso freeing.
(10:17):
So, as much as no one wants hardstuff, hard stuff is hard, like
it's in the name.
We don't want to deal with hardstuff, but having gone through
this, I know the importance ofit because it released me and it
was allowed me to explore everytrace of my life and of my
(10:38):
existence and of the things thatare dark.
So when good stuff happens,like oh God made this happen.
And when bad stuff happens, wejust can't rationalize like what
happened, but, like for me, Ifeel like God is part of all of
that, and as much as we try tolook at bad stuff and we don't
(11:00):
want to deal with it, likethat's just part of life and
being human and stuff that wehave to go through, because bad
stuff happens in this world.
Really, bad stuff happens allthe time in this world and we
have to look at it.
We have to look and we have tounderstand it so that it doesn't
keep getting pushed in thedarkness and then not addressed
so it wouldn't be in your wayanymore.
(11:21):
Exactly, yeah, but it all cameat the right time, like I think
through, like when I wasstruggling with depression and
in a society if I had turned toalcohol or drugs or you know,
being going to parties andthings like that, like I feel
like this kind of thing couldhave been revealed in a much
(11:43):
worse way in time in life that Iwasn't ready for and then could
have just continued to moredestructive actions.
So, ultimately, like it was theperfect moment.
Now, looking back at it, and Ihad done so much work that
needed to be done before I couldeven understand this part of it
too.
There was a point where I waslike mad that I didn't know
(12:04):
about it before.
It's like, oh my gosh, I'm likein my 20s.
This was like when I was twolike why did it take this long?
But it took this long because Ihad to get to the place to
truly be able to cope with it.
That's a good point.
Beth (12:16):
And you had, you had some of your toolkit in place, you
know, you had your supportstructure in place, and so and
so the timing of when this truthwas revealed to you was
actually grace filled.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
It's hard to tell, it's hard tosay out loud.
Let me just speak for my ownexperience.
(12:38):
Even as a pastor, it is hardfor me to say out loud God has
said this to me, or God hasrevealed this to me, or this is
a truth that I know because ofthe Holy Spirit.
So I wonder if it was hard foryou, as as you were writing the
book and as you, you know, asyou have released the book into
(13:01):
the world, to to kind of be onrecord saying God showed me
something.
Steph (13:07):
Yes, uh for sure, that was definitely something that I
struggled with when it happened.
You know, explain it to people.
When I wrote it, when I publishit, yeah, every step of the way
, even hearing it now, like I'mlike, oh no, oh no, you know.
And there are, there aredifferent, um, like recreational
drugs and like mushrooms andthings like that, like, or
(13:30):
ayahuasca or something.
There's like these differentkinds of chemicals, reactions
that can happen when we use, youknow, different kinds of
substances and people go onjourneys to learn these things
about their life and when theytake these drugs and get into
these other states, they and I'mnot, I've never used anything
(13:51):
like that I'm not actually like,I don't have a full opinion on
really any of it.
I do know a lot of those thingsare are being tested in a
mental health capacity byprofessionals for a tool for,
you know, mental health recoveryand learning about these things
, because it puts you in adifferent state to be able to,
like, discover things.
(14:11):
I've seen programs about theseand things like that, and when I
hear it I'm like, wow, lookwhat was revealed.
And I don't think anything thatthey are crazy for late, these
reveals and things like that.
But when I hear someone, when Ihear someone say God told them
this or that, you know, even I,having gone through the
experience, even I am like, okay, right.
(14:32):
So it's definitely a weird spotto be in because on one hand,
it's literally happened to me,so I believe that it can happen,
but then, on the other hand,I'm like if I had just like
discovered this in some kind oflike ritual setting or something
, I feel like people wouldbelieve it more than more than
this.
So, in my experience, I dobelieve.
(14:55):
Well, all I can do is speak formyself.
I do believe I can get to theplace of this kind of thing
happening without, like, theassistance of drugs and stuff
like that.
Is it, was it freaking hard?
Yes, would I like recommendsomeone to get this depressed in
her life so they can read?
No, I wouldn't recommend it.
I mean, everyone is differentand all I can do is share my
(15:16):
journey.
But it's not I don't share myjourney to say you know, this is
the path.
Everyone's path is different.
I feel like there is no, nopath that looks the same.
But all I can do is encouragepeople to explore their lives
and to try to understand.
You know what has made them whothey are today and if they want
(15:36):
to make changes in that.
That's really what the story isabout.
It's not like God will tell youthese things when you get
really really depressed Right.
Beth (15:46):
But I do think that there is.
I do think that it takescourage, because there is a risk
of people saying, Steph, thisexperience is not verifiable,
Therefore, this is not reliable.
Steph (15:59):
You know, this is something that that your, that
your mind has invented, which iseasy to go to because you
already know I have mentalillness and so it's easy to say
your mind made this up 100%.
I've, I've said it all tomyself.
I've said all of that like whatI think people might say about
it.
But ultimately it doesn'tmatter, because I know this
(16:21):
happened, I'm secure in it, I'mconfident in it.
So you can say whatever youwant to me, but I've done a lot
of work to be secure in my truthand to not let other people
tell me this or that.
But yeah, I mean, does God tellyou stuff, reveal stuff to you?
Beth (16:38):
Yes, I've not had any past experiences reallumined.
I don't think none are comingto mind off the top of my head,
but I do feel like I getguidance from God and I, you
know, I have an act of prayerlife and actually wish that I
would spend more time incontemplation because I think
(16:59):
that's where I really feel asense of God's direction.
But yeah, I definitely.
I mean, listen, I would not bea pastor if I did not think
that's what God wanted me to do.
I would, I would be happilyunemployed.
So I definitely feel like Godhas, has talked and does
continue to talk to me.
Steph (17:20):
Do you feel like you have to be in a conscious prayer
setting to hear from God?
Beth (17:26):
I think that's when I am aware of it, and sometimes I
mean, really, hindsight is abeautiful gift, right, and so
sometimes there'll be a seriesof things that will happen.
And then in hindsight I can gooh, I see it now, right.
Oh, I see how God was directingme or inviting me or nudging me
in a way that I didn't reallyhave an awareness of in the
(17:48):
moment.
Steph (17:49):
I mean, hindsight is good , but isn't it, wouldn't it be
better if we could see hindsightin the moment Like, instead of
having to see it after and thenlike, oh man, I could have been
like way less stressed aboutthat if I had realized it in the
moment.
Yeah, I mean, wouldn't it bebetter if we could just like
understand it just instantly?
Beth (18:08):
It would probably be easier, yeah, but it would
probably be less human.
Steph (18:11):
Yes, that would be more robot and that's not us yeah.
Beth (18:16):
So in the book, god has revealed this to you and you
immediately felt relief.
Yes, interesting.
Steph (18:25):
I think it's because it had been, you know, 20 something
years of draining on me withoutrealizing what it was.
So it's, finally I was able tosee the source of the drain.
Beth (18:36):
Yeah, you know I often have.
I often will say to people thatgrief is one of those things
that will wait for you, butuntil just now I had not made
the connection that it's notjust grief.
Everything that we need to workon waits for us and weighs on
us, ways on us and can erode ourwell-being as it waits, and so
(19:04):
as soon as you had thisimportant piece of the puzzle,
it wasn't draining you anymorebecause it wasn't waiting.
Yeah, Interesting.
Steph (19:18):
As long as I can remember , I had an obsession with person
C liking me.
I wanted him to think I wascool and want to spend time with
me.
I never understood why I didn'thave these feelings toward
other family members.
Now I saw that I was the victimof trauma.
My brain had rewired itself andhad sought approval from my
abuser.
Almost two years before Ilearned of my truth, my mom and
(19:41):
I were out of town staying withperson C.
Since the musical Wicked cameout, my favorite singer has been
Adina Menzel.
I'm a fan of everything shedoes Love her, love her voice,
love it all.
In 2010, I saw that she wasgoing on tour and would be on
tour with me.
I saw that she was going ontour and would be in person C's
town.
This was the first time I wasold enough to drink with person
(20:04):
C, so he was excited to teach meto drink tequila.
We had a couple of shots at hishouse with my mom and person
C's husband.
Yes, person C is gay, notpartaking.
We were just having our ownlittle party, carefree and
really careless.
He had the bright idea to walkthe streets at night, so person
C filled us each a full cup oftequila and we were on our way.
(20:25):
My mom fought this, but heconvinced her we were fine.
Person C said don't you trustme?
Deep down?
She did not, but she couldn'tstop us from leaving.
I should mention that I hadnever done a lot of drinking,
but I was excited to be withperson C and he was cool, so I
wanted him to think I was cooltoo.
I never drank when I was underage or got drunk with my friends
(20:48):
, but all my common sense wentout the window when I drank with
him.
We were walking the streets,made a few stops and then
everything went blank.
I don't remember anything else.
The next thing I saw werepolice officers, feet.
My head was on the concrete andperson C was in my ear, yelling
at me to get up.
Still to this day I can hearhis voice right up in my ear
(21:09):
with force and anger Get up, getup off the ground.
I struggled to stand.
It was so hard because I feltunbalanced and my legs didn't
work.
Then I heard person C say tothe officers she's my family,
she's fine, we're headed home.
The officers left.
I half walked, half held upback to his condo.
When we arrived I collapsed inthe middle of his floor on his
(21:30):
rug.
I threw up most of the nightand my mom looked after me.
She later told me how scaredshe was and that she feared I
might have alcohol poisoning.
The next day I felt like death.
I'd never felt so weirdly sickbefore.
I could hardly move.
I felt so embarrassed that Idrank too much and sorry my mom
had to take care of me the wholeday.
(21:52):
I couldn't do anything but justlay on the couch.
Then it came time to go to theconcert and I didn't feel any
better.
But I got enough strength toget on the subway.
When we got off at our stop Iran to a trash can to throw up.
Not a proud moment, not proudat all.
The concert was great.
Adina was charming as ever, butit was a rough day when I was
(22:12):
fully sober and could processwhat had happened.
It struck me as also strange.
I want a person C to like me,so I had drinks with him.
He kept giving me drinks, so Ithought he knew what enough
would be for me.
I trusted him to keep me safeand not let me drink too much,
just as my friends had done forme in the past.
But he didn't stop me.
This was the first time Irealized person C might not be a
(22:36):
safe man.
And now, two years later, I waslearning the truth of what
happened to me when I was twoyears old.
He didn't keep me safe at twoand he didn't keep me safe at 24
.
Beth (22:47):
What do you think happened ?
Where did the police officercome from?
Why were you on the ground?
Steph (22:54):
I must have passed out, I guess I have no idea.
And isn't that crazy like thatin that moment a police officer
would be there too.
Right Like so.
How long was that amount?
Of time Right.
Beth (23:05):
Yeah, I mean, was this the kind of neighborhood where
police officers were?
Police officers were just likewalking a beat.
Steph (23:11):
It was a major city, so I would assume they were just
kind of around.
Yeah, I don't even really knowwhere we were, like he lived in
a city, but I don't know wherewe were in the city Interesting,
ok, and you don't rememberwhere you went, right, or how
many places you went.
We I think we weren't, we didn'tgo in anywhere.
And he also brought morealcohol too.
(23:32):
Like he like poured like a bigcup full and I think it was just
tequila that he put in it.
And my mom was like, no, don'tbring that, Just bring water or
something.
And like he like pretended likehe poured it out, but he just
like kept alcohol in it.
That's all we had with us wasalcohol.
So someone that never reallydrinks and then is just purely
(23:54):
drinking alcohol I mean now as alike full grown adult I know I
can have like one drink.
Then I'd have to drink like awhole water than one drink if I
was to.
But I really have like, if Idrink I have like one drink and
that's it.
And.
Beth (24:08):
I don't drink tequila, obviously.
Yeah, I mean also like part ofme, and then maybe this is just
the adult in me, but it's like,why would someone think that was
a good time?
Like let's leave the house,where we're safe and comfortable
, and go walk on the streets todrink some more, but not go to
any like bars or clubs, I don'tknow, it just doesn't sound fun
(24:30):
to me.
Steph (24:31):
Well, he sexually abused me at two years old, so he
doesn't seem like the most standup smart person that there ever
was.
Yeah, so this happened and afew I don't remember how long
it's been, maybe like a fewyears ago I was processing like
(24:54):
sometimes these things that havehappened to me in my past, so
like something will happen in mylife currently, and then I'll
have like flashbacks to thesemoments but like process other
things that happened.
Like at this time I didn't havethis, this was all I knew.
But like a few years ago I likeprocess this and I had another
(25:17):
one of those God moments whereyou know he just talking,
talking, talking and I'm sorryto interrupt because I know that
you hate that, but are yousaying God's a verbal processor
and that God interrupts?
No, I'm saying that God will.
I feel that God will speak tome at different times in
different ways.
So there was other things thathappened during this too.
(25:39):
I kind of cut it down.
Like he called one of my goodfriends, like when we were like,
oh, we were sitting on thesteps of a church at one point
and he called one of my goodfriends and he I had never
talked to this friend before andhe was just like, hey, man,
keep her safe, just always, keepher safe.
(25:59):
Like really, just, you know,whatever you do is keep her safe
, like something like that.
Like I don't remember this, butmy friend told me this.
It was a male friend of mineand he told me that and he said
it was really weird because heobviously was coherent and on
the other end of the line, so hedidn't know it was going on,
but he just heard like thisperson saying these things and
(26:20):
he thought that was really weird.
And so what I believe happenedwhen I passed out or before I
passed out is, I believe thatperson C told me what happened
when I was two.
He was drinking and was tryingto finally like get it off his
chest and like make amends insome capacity so that he could
(26:46):
like move on.
And so what I believe is hetold me, maybe on the steps of
the church, I don't know, thatwould be wonderful.
And then I passed out after hetold me because it was like too
much for me to take.
And then but I don't have anyconscious memory of that, but I
do believe that's what happenedand that also sets the stage of
(27:09):
why he thought it was a goodidea to get us really drunk and
then walk the streets, Becausethat might have been, that may
have been.
His plan was to finally tell methis so that he could like move
on and feel like he's like donehis part.
And so I do think that makesthe story piece together a
(27:30):
little bit more.
In the darkness of my bedroom,after life had become so much
clearer to me, I spoke with God.
This talk was nothing like I'dever experienced.
When I say talk, I mean I couldhear his words in my head and
knew they were not my own.
When I talked back, I formedthe words in my head.
(27:52):
It was not audible, talkinglike with another human.
As he spoke, he sounded like me, he used words I use and talked
on my level.
I asked him why.
He told me that he speaks to melike this because it's the most
comfortable way for me tounderstand.
He didn't sound like a boomingvoice from above or use language
(28:12):
like thou and thee.
He talked like a friend so Icould understand every word.
This was the first time I hadexperienced a conversation with
God.
I had never heard his voicethis clear before.
I asked him questions about mylife, about where he was at
certain points and about thefuture.
I asked him where he was when Icut my arm so many times.
I was there.
(28:33):
I was always there with you,holding the scissors, making
sure you didn't cut too deep.
I cried with you when the painwas too much, God told me.
Growing up, I was alwaysskeptical when church people
would say they had talked to God.
I had thought there's no way.
That's a thing.
It's never happened to me, soit must not be real.
(28:53):
Once it did happen to me, Iknew that it was very real.
Since that night I have hadconversations with God on many
occasions.
It's real and mind-blowing.
Every time, After the reveal ofmy truth, I had to tell someone
.
Through therapy I had learnedthat I couldn't just leave
things like this inside.
At the time, the closest personto me, both physically and
(29:14):
emotionally, was my Appleco-worker, Jason.
We lived in the same apartmentcomplex and had developed a
long-time friendship.
I walked down to his door andknocked.
We sat down on his floor and Italked.
I told him everything and as Ishared all the emotions started
to hit me.
I started crying more and moreas I tried hard to get the words
(29:35):
out.
When I finished, Jason wasquiet.
I could tell he cared deeplyand believed everything I had
said.
He was just trying to find theright words.
What he said next I could havenever imagined.
He told me about the sexualabuse that happened to him when
he was around seven years old.
He had let it drown from hisbrain when it happened, but when
(29:57):
he was a teenager his abusercame to him to apologize.
His abuser, also a familymember, was going through
recovery and needed to makeamends with Jason.
Jason forgave him.
My words brought all this backfor Jason.
Jason told me about the event,his emotions and his abuser like
in my case, it was a man.
We were both crying.
(30:18):
Now, realizing this hugerevelation bonded us even closer
as friends.
He ended by telling me he hadnever shared that with anyone
else.
He had kept it all lockedinside.
Beth (30:30):
This is probably the same obvious, but you had permission
to share this information.
Jason remains a good friend inyour life.
I see this as another.
I see Jason's presence in yourlife in that moment as another
moment of grace that you hadsomebody who was not only safe
(30:52):
to process it with, but somebodywho could relate to what you
had experienced and help youshare it without any sense of
shame or responsibility.
It's one of those things thatsometimes, when we're mistreated
(31:13):
, we think that it's our fault,and you had somebody with you
who, because of a similarexperience, understood that no,
this is no child's fault.
Steph (31:23):
Yeah, I mean and that's part of the mental toll that
sexual abuse takes on someone,though is the blaming yourself
and all of that.
Yeah, but it was so.
I mean it was just such apowerful moment like that.
He had gone through verysimilar things and had the
abuser actually talk to him andwe've talked about it since and
(31:47):
things like that, and it wasstill hard, even though the
abuser apologized and that'sstill that trauma happened to
you and he, I believe he didn'tremember it happening, but it
all flashback when the abuserbrought it up to him, like that
it was revealed and he never Idon't know if he ever told
anyone else about it and it wasjust kind of something like he
(32:09):
stuffed away.
But yeah, I mean, I think andthat's also showed, it's like,
whether your abuser admits it ordoesn't, it's still hard.
I didn't wanna lock myexperience away.
I had locked away in a coldplace for too long and it had
too much power over me.
I was not gonna give my abuserany more power.
(32:32):
So shortly after I went toTallahassee to tell my parents.
They were very respectful andlistened intently when I shared
my truth.
They were both trying to figureout the timeline, as they
didn't remember a person seeever visiting me in Florida when
I was a baby.
I didn't have all the answersand I didn't need solid proof to
know the truth.
I could tell that my dad wastrying really hard to not say
(32:54):
the wrong thing.
He had enough training to knowyou don't blame the victim and
call them a liar.
But to this day I can't tellfor sure what he really thinks
or if he truly believes me.
I just needed them to know andI accomplished that.
The last step was confronting myabuser.
I had many unanswered questions.
How will I react when I see himin person?
(33:15):
Will he ever admit to me whathe did?
Can I forgive him without himsaying sorry?
I didn't wanna wait and Ididn't wanna put much thought
into it, so I bought a planeticket to see him.
I arrived and met him in thefood area of Amal.
I didn't accuse him of anythingor bring up the past.
We just talked for about twohours on various topics.
(33:36):
I can't even remember most ofthem now.
At the time I was 26 and workingmy first real job at Apple.
He talked about himself in his20s and how confusing and hard
that time was for him.
He told me of his first big jobin 1985.
He also told me about comingout to his friends and family in
1986, my birth year.
As he talked, I started to dothe math and realized he was the
(34:00):
age I was now when he abused me.
It was a chilling realization.
Ultimately, my goal for themeeting was to see how I would
react when I saw him and if Icould still be in the same room
with him.
I learned that I could, buttimes had changed.
I was not seeking his approvalanymore.
I didn't see him as specialanymore.
I saw him as a sad, aging andangry man.
(34:23):
The meeting was over and that'sthe last time I saw him.
I have not made any effort tosee him and he has done nothing
to reach out to me.
After all that, I have forgivenhim, not for him, but for me.
He has no control over my lifeanymore.
Beth (34:41):
I have to stop you because I have so many questions.
Okay, I know that you are aperson who thinks through things
before you do them, and so Iknow before you bought that
plane ticket, you thought aboutwhat is this conversation gonna
be like?
Why did you tell him you werecoming into town?
Steph (34:59):
I had a friend that lived nearby that I stayed with, and
so that was my line is I wasgoing to see that friend and I
just wanted to catch up with himwhile you were there.
Beth (35:09):
Yeah.
Steph (35:10):
It was only for like a day or two, like it was very
short amount of time.
I don't remember actually doingmuch when I was there, because
that was the sole reason ofgoing was to have that
conversation, but theconversation never turned to
what happened when you were two.
No, because I gave space forthat conversation.
If that was something like, Ikept the conversation kind of
(35:32):
specific to you know lifeconversation, not just like
how's the weather.
So the space was there, like Iset the stage for that to come
up if he wanted to, but itwasn't as a victim in this.
I didn't need to have thatmoment of me bringing it up and
(35:53):
him denying it because thatwasn't going to do anything to
help.
For you know, I didn't want toget to a place where he's like
oh my gosh, you're a liar, doall of those kinds of things,
because I know I'm not, I knowyou did this, but I also like
forcing someone to say something.
Like even if he was like I'm sosorry, I'm the worst, even if
(36:17):
he had like completelyapologized, it still would have
been hard.
So just like it was for Jason,you know, when his abuser
actually told him it's stillAlthough that trauma was still
really hard.
So I was giving him the spaceto say something.
But even if he didn't saysomething, I was going to be
able to let it go and I justneeded that last seeing of him,
(36:39):
cause the last time I had seenhim.
Well, the last time was thedrinking Um, and so I just
needed that like final moment tomake peace with You're no
longer in my life and you nolonger have control of me.
Beth (36:56):
Yeah, it's really interesting and, I think, great
that you were able to getclosure without giving him the
opportunity to victimize youagain, I denying what he had
done again.
I mean, I I'm going to soundlike a broken record, but I just
see grace all over this, youknow, because there was
(37:16):
something about that moment withhim that was closure for you
that you needed, even if it,even if it isn't what somebody
on the outside would say oh,what you needed was for him to
admit you know and apologize.
Steph (37:32):
No, you didn't actually need that, that's a luxury that
most of us don't get, and Ithink that was something that I
had to learn.
The hard way is, or just it wasa hard reality is like the
world is not a perfect,wonderful place and the things
that we need and we deserve andwe should have don't happen.
(37:53):
And so how can I forgivesomeone without them?
You know apologizing, and Ihave learned that through these
things in my life that I don't Ican let you go without you
apologizing or even admittingany of this to me, because it's
pretty rare that you get that.
Beth (38:13):
Well, and like you say, you did it for yourself.
It was all yeah, I mean there'sno, there's no need to give him
the gift of forgiving him, butyou needed to let it go for your
own mental health.
Steph (38:27):
Yeah, and I wonder, you know, I think I don't have no
idea where he is, what he'sdoing, any of that, if he's ever
been sorrowful, anything likethat.
But I do like, as we're talking, I wonder like what if he's
actually went through recoveryprogram one day and he needed to
make his amends, because that'spart of it, you know we've gone
through recovery program andthat's part of it is you make
(38:49):
amends, you actually recognizethe bad that you've done and
apologize to people.
I wonder, like if he came to meone day and said I'm sorry for
this, ta-da-da-da-da.
Um, I think it would be a veryeasy conversation for me because
I had already let it go and himapologizing would actually not
(39:10):
change any of the progress andwork I've done.
Uh, it would be for him Really.
Yeah, it would be for him, andI would be able to tell him all
of this work that I've done andhow long I've known and all of
this, and let him know that Ihad already forgiven him years
before.
But that would be for him.
All of this was for me, was forme to let go of it, and if he
(39:30):
finally one day realizes theimportance of admitting the
whores he's done and wants tomake amends, I'll be there to
let him know.
I've already done that.
But also, I've never had someonelike tell me something like
like that, that kind of likewell, I have I.
Um, when I was in high schoolearly high school, around a
(39:52):
Christmas time, my dad told methat he had a daughter that was
older than us, that he hadbefore he was married to my mom,
and so he was trying to sharethis with us.
And, you know, be open andhonest, which is great but when
you're on someone else'stimetable, then it just kind of
(40:13):
that just derailed my life.
That news like that justchanged everything I knew about
life, and so I had to deal withthat right in that moment when
that person chose to relievethat stress in their life, like
he chose that he was tired ofkeeping this a secret so he was
(40:33):
going to tell us.
But then that becomes a burdenon the person to have to then
deal with that right then.
And so, in actuality, if personsee had told me this before I
was ready to to take it on, thatwould have really done another
derail in my life.
But the fact that I've alreadydealt with this and cause it was
(40:54):
really about me and letting goof all of this.
It wasn't really about personsee.
But if they, if, if one daythey are like I'm going to admit
it to them, I need to apologize, then I won't be derailed
because I've already dealt withit.
I mean, I probably will stillhave some processing, but I've
already dealt with it and itwon't derail my life like a
(41:15):
bombshell would if somebody justWell, and that's that's why, in
recovery you, you admit whatyou've done and you make amends
in a way that is not harmful tosomeone else.
Beth (41:27):
Yes, make amends wherever possible, except when to do so
would cause harm.
Steph (41:34):
Yeah, A few weeks later I drove to Tallahassee and talked
to Dr Jill about all therealizations and actions I had
taken.
When I was finished, she toldme that since our very first
session she had suspected that Ihad been abused.
This shocked me.
How did she know?
Why didn't she bring it upbefore?
She shared that many of mystruggles signaled that I had
(41:57):
been sexually abused.
She didn't know by who or atwhat age, but she had always
suspected it.
This was very interesting to meand I was glad she hadn't said
anything before.
I believe the truth wasrevealed in the right way at the
right time.
While I was in Tallahasseesharing with my parents, my mom
had given me some old picturesfor me to digitize in a VHS tape
(42:18):
.
She didn't know what was on itor where it came from.
Years prior I had collected allour home movies and spent weeks
converting them into digitalfiles, so it was strange that I
had missed one.
I took the tape back to Orlando, assuming it had gotten
misplaced from all the otherhome movies.
When I began to transfer it, Isaw some old random footage from
(42:41):
when my brother and I wereyoung.
I watched as it transferred inreal time toward the middle of
the tape I couldn't believe whatI saw.
It was a one and a half minuteclip from 1988.
In the clip my mom is in theshot.
This struck me as strangebecause she was usually behind
the camera.
I saw and heard my mom talkingabout the day.
I saw my grandma setting thetable.
(43:02):
Then my mom said this is personC, his first time here in a
long time.
She says this as he walks intothe frame.
Then I saw me walking like atwo year old, with short hair
and a sun dress on.
Mom said this is the first timeperson C has seen Stephanie.
The clip ends with him givingme a drink of juice, asking if I
(43:22):
want anymore.
Apparently I didn't and Iwalked away.
This was proof that person Chad in fact visited Florida.
When I was a baby I alreadyknew it was true.
I didn't need the tape to proveit, but I sent it to my mom as
she was skeptical he had evervisited me in Florida.
She was very surprised to seethe clip.
(43:43):
I think it helped her toprocess my truth that I had
shared with her.
Beth (43:48):
Roll the footage right.
Steph (43:51):
Here you go.
You needed proof.
Yeah, that was Just crazy.
Like the fact that I hadalready transferred all the home
movies, the fact that there wasone random one that she found
and that's the last one she everfound Like there's not been any
tape since then and that thatclip was on it.
Beth (44:10):
Yes, I mean, and that it came into existence the weekend
that you told them what God hadrevealed to you.
I mean, that's incredibletiming.
Steph (44:21):
And some other things that have happened since I
published the book.
Like my grandmother read thebook.
Actually, my mom wasn't sureshe wanted my.
It was my mom's mom.
My mom wasn't sure she wantedher to read it because she
thought it might be upsettingsome of the stuff, but my
grandmother actually ordered itfrom my website and read the
book and I was like so she gotit and she read it and she was
(44:47):
this was a few years ago.
She's since passed, I think ayear or two ago.
She read the book and we wentdown there to see her because
she was sick with something.
She didn't that's not when shepassed, but and so we went to
see her in the hospital orurgent care or something, and
she like came close she is likehad me come close and she was
(45:12):
like I read your book and I waslike, ok, I'm like I'm nervous,
I'm like oh gosh, and she's likeshe said I want you to know,
and she's also always called meher girl.
She's like you're my girl andshe's always.
She has a couple ofgrandchildren but and a couple
of girl grandchildren, but shealways like just like felt like
(45:34):
a protective closeness to meover all the other ones.
In that clip my grandmother wasthere.
I even said it.
And I wrote this book, obviouslybefore she read the book.
So the fact that I mentionedthat my grandmother was sitting
there, yeah, it's even crazythat I wrote that in the book,
but my grandmother was therewhen this happened and she told
(45:55):
me that she always felt likesomething happened to me.
From personcy, she says shealways thought that something
happened and she had thisnagging feeling but she had no
idea what it was, how to bringit up Like, and imagine that.
Imagine being an adult thereand thinking something happened
but having no clue, and see, andprobably she probably had a
(46:17):
feeling that something probablysaw a difference in me, like
from what before happened andafter happened, then she
probably saw something withinperson C2 and to have no, no
proof in any sense, to havenothing to go on, but realizing
she has no idea.
You know how, what do you do inthat situation?
(46:37):
And obviously she didn't doanything and she told me that
she had always just felt likesomething happened and just had
always been, it felt protectiveof me because of that and just
always felt like, convincedherself, like she was just over,
like oh no, it didn't happenwhatever.
And so this actually gave herso much peace to know that she
(46:58):
was right and that, like, thatfeeling was valid and there was
no part of me that was upsetthat she didn't say anything,
because what would she have said?
What would, what would havebeen done?
It just was like another,though, validation of the truth
of this.
You know, to have this adultsay I was there, I felt like
(47:21):
something happened, but I had noidea what it was, and for her
to get the comfort in readingthat and to see where I am now
too, like she saw I mean sheread the whole book, she saw
that the progress I've done, andso she just had this comfort
that she never had about thesituation.
So, yet again, another like justpowerful moment that happened
(47:43):
by sharing this, something thatI would have never expected,
that my grandmother would havebeen affected by this but, like
I said, she passed away a coupleof years after having read my
book, maybe maybe two yearsafter.
I could see the relief likethis understanding brought her.
And you know, there's a part ofme that's like if all of the
(48:07):
work I've done and writing thebook and all of this, if the
only thing it did was to give arelief and a closer to my
grandmother.
You know it's worth it, but tonot even realize like the impact
that this has on more than meand why it's important.
(48:30):
If I didn't understand itbefore, you know I understood it
then in that moment.
The importance of sharing, andespecially the hard stuff.
None of us want to share it.
I don't want to.
It's not like I was like, yay,this is going to be the best
thing to write this.
Beth (48:44):
I'm so glad this happened to me so I can talk about it.
Steph (48:47):
Yes, and.
But you just never know whatsharing your story, how, what
the impact of that will be, andyou may never know.
I may never know exactly whatthat is, but I just knew it had
to be done At the IndieVeeJepposo we have questions for
(49:10):
reflection.
These are questions based ontoday's show that Beth will read
and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself.
Beth (49:16):
Number one what do you think of how God reveals truth
to people?
Number two have you ever shareda hard truth with a friend and
found common ground?
Number three do you need solidproof to believe things in your
own life like the videotape, ordo you trust your intuition?
And number four have youdiscovered someone in your life
(49:39):
was not a safe person?
What was that reveal like foryou?
Steph (49:45):
This has been the Discovering Arts Gras podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
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