January 26, 2024 • 30 mins
Steph and Beth continue to listen to the audiobook version of Steph’s memoir, Discovering My Scars, and discuss what is revealed in chapter 11.
At the end of the episode, Steph and Beth offer you these Questions for Reflection:
(1) Have you had the experience of knowing only the next right step? What was that like?
(2) Reflect on the transitions in your life. What is it like when a transition isn’t attached to a life event like graduating from school?
(3) Have you ever had a God-moment (or sense of knowing) like Steph had on the beach?
(4) What does having faith mean to you?
Buy Discovering My Scars
Audiobook: https://amzn.to/2XCe9a3
Paperback: https://amzn.to/2O4U5dh
ebook: https://amzn.to/2r8mPsA
Steph: https://www.stephaniekostopoulos.com
Beth: http://bethdemme.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth (00:03):
Welcome to the Discover Our Scars Podcast.
Steph (00:05):
Where we share personal experiences so we can learn from
each other.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
I've been in recovery for 17years and am the author of
Discover my Scars, my memoirabout what's done in the
darkness eventually comes tolight.
Beth (00:16):
I'm a lawyer turned pastor , who's all about self-awareness
and emotional health, because Iknow what it's like to have
neither of those things.
Steph (00:23):
Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone
through a recovery programtogether, and when I wanted to
start a podcast, she was onlynamed to came to mind as co-host
.
Beth (00:30):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot
from sharing personalexperiences with Steph over the
years.
Steph (00:35):
We value honest conversations and we hope you do
too.
Beth (00:38):
On today's show, we're going to have an honest
conversation titled Discoveringmy Scars, Chapter 11.
Steph (00:43):
And the show, will close with questions for reflection.
Where we will invite you toreflect on the conversation in
your own life.
Beth (00:48):
So we're diving back into your memoir Discovering my Scars
.
As we've already said, this isgoing to be chapter 11.
So we're going to use the audiobook version of it and we're
going to listen to it, and thenwe're going to pause and ask and
have other discussions about it, and sometimes I ask you
questions when we do this andsometimes other information
comes to mind that you want toshare.
(01:09):
So, yeah, we've done it 10times, let's do it again.
Steph (01:13):
Yes, let's get into it.
This is chapter 11, Faith,which you'll hear me say in just
a second on the auto recordingas well.
So, just so you know, this is mein live, real life.
Then we're going to flip a pageand that will be me recorded.
Part three recovery.
Chapter 11, faith.
Even if you're not a fan ofApple, you know the name Steve
(01:35):
Jobs.
Steve was the CEO of Apple whenI was hired in 2007, the year
of the first iPhone.
He changed the way we work,communicate and use technology
in so many ways.
I feel honored to work for him,even in a small way.
When I became a creative, I wassent to Cupertino, california,
home to Apple's headquarters.
(01:56):
It awed me.
I saw huge, amazing buildingswhere the products I loved were
designed, and Steve was so close.
As we went through training, wewere told not to seek out Steve
and not to react if we saw him.
I had no problem with theseroles, but I was still vocal to
my training group about how coolit would be to see Steve.
(02:17):
Then it happened.
I was having lunch at Cafe Mac,the coolest and best food court
I had ever dined in.
The room seemed to get a littlequiet.
The friend I was talking tolooked at me and said don't turn
around, be cool.
I knew it had to be Steve.
Now, I was cool people.
I really was.
Slowly and casually, I lookedover my shoulder and watched as
(02:40):
the black turtleneck to Stevewalk to his office with a
colleague.
They were just walking andtalking casually to each other.
My eyes stayed on him the wholetime.
I wondered what they weretalking about A new product?
A new update?
Maybe about what they had forlunch?
It was a big moment for me.
I didn't need to talk to Steve,I didn't need to walk next to
(03:02):
him.
Being in his presence just thatone time was enough.
I do remember thinking, wow, helooks a lot thinner in person.
This was just two years beforeSteve passed away from cancer.
After he died, his biography byWalter Isaacson was released.
I bought it on my iPad and readit cover to cover.
By the middle of the book Ithought who's this crazy
(03:24):
arrogant man I'm reading about?
Oh wait, it's Steve FreakinJobs.
I enjoyed learning his lifestory and understanding the man
more than ever before, but howhe created Apple the ins and
outs of his business is not whatstayed with me.
At the end of the book hetalked about his one regret.
It wasn't the products hedidn't release and it wasn't
leaving the company in the 90sand coming back, his biggest
(03:45):
regret was not spending enoughtime with his family.
The most successful man I'veever seen in my lifetime
regretted that his kids did notknow him.
That stuck with me.
After reading his book, mydefinition of success changed.
Success was no longer aboutworking all the hours of the day
or making all the money, butabout spending time with my
family.
Sometimes on my work breaks, Iwould walk around the mall and
(04:09):
call my mom.
In these calls, she told meabout the many meals she, my dad
, brother, sister-in-law andnephew all shared together.
I would hear of the weekendswhen they had just hung out, not
doing much, but doing ittogether.
I longed to be a part of thenothing and everything they did
together.
The burden of being four hoursaway from my family started to
(04:29):
take a toll.
My second nephew was set to beborn right before Christmas 2012
.
I smiled nonstop when my storeleader, marco, gave me the time
off to be in Tallahassee for thebirth.
But with all my planning, youcan't really plan a natural
birth.
And of course, he was born aweek late.
He came into this world in theearly morning of the day I
(04:49):
needed to go back to Orlando.
I saw him for about 20 minutesbefore I had to drive away.
It pained me so much to leavehim so soon.
When I wasn't with my twonephews, my heart felt like a
slinky One part in Tallahasseeand one in Orlando.
When I was in Orlando, itconstantly wanted to slinky back
to Tallahassee, to be all inone piece.
I felt whole in Tallahassee,but not in Orlando.
(05:13):
Back at Apple after the birth, Idid my job, but my heart was
not into the daily grind anymore.
I had reached the five yearmark working for Apple a few
months before and the job hadstarted to feel stale.
I needed to clear my head.
So Jason suggested we go to oneof my favorite places the beach
at night.
On the night of January 1st2013, we headed to Cocoa Beach,
(05:34):
about 45 minutes from ourapartments.
When we arrived, it was perfectthe surface calm and the air
was crisp, cool and peaceful.
Jason walked a few paces behindme so I could walk alone on the
wet sand.
Beth (05:47):
All right, so I wanted to have you pause it there, because
that's pretty cool that you sawSteve Jobs in person.
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
Also, I don't really believeyou when you say I was cool
people I really was, that youwere slow and casual and how you
turned around.
I'm not sure I believe you.
I think maybe in your own mindyou were slow and casual and if
(06:09):
I saw it in real life you werelike the Tasmanian devil, like
whipping around as fast as youcould to see him.
Steph (06:14):
I didn't run up to him or anything, so I was cool.
In that sense.
I mean, I think that counts asbeing cool.
I mean, how many people can saythey've seen Steve Jobs in real
life?
I mean, he's been dead over.
I can't remember what year hepassed, I think it was 09.
So I mean, it's been a longtime.
Yeah, I mean.
Beth (06:32):
I can't say that I've ever seen yeah.
Steph (06:34):
I mean I didn't realize, like, how soon he was gonna pass
after that.
So you know, that was.
I mean he created this wholething Like obviously it's more
complicated than that.
Beth (06:47):
Like there's two.
Steph (06:47):
Steve's that were really involved.
Steve was, and Jobs was reallymore the businessman, the
marketing man, which which isnecessary, really everything.
Yeah, you could have the bestproduct in the world, but if no
one knows about it, there you go.
Shark Tank tells us that, butyeah, so it was definitely like
a cool thing.
But I've also seen Was SteveWas who actually created the
(07:12):
hardware of the Apple computer.
He came to Tallahassee a coupleyears ago to do a talk and I
got to see him and that was socool, like so I have seen both
Steve's in my lifetime, sothat's pretty cool.
Beth (07:23):
I mean, I see a special Steve every day.
Steph (07:25):
You see a pretty cool Steve.
Yeah, you have a pretty coolSteve.
I see my husband Steve everyday.
Do you call him?
Beth (07:31):
Steve.
No, I call him Steven I callhim Steven.
So I wanna ask you somethingelse, but you don't have to
leave this in because I don'tknow, like I don't wanna create
trouble.
In this excerpt that we justlistened to, you know, you talk
about the importance of beingwith family and let me just say
like it makes sense to me thatSteve Jobs' biggest regret was
not spending more time with hisfamily.
Like there's an expressionabout how nobody ever puts on
(07:54):
their tombstone.
You know, wish I had workedmore, like that's not a thing,
but you and your brother havenot been especially close, but
you're very attached to hischildren, which I think is kind
of interesting.
Steph (08:08):
What do you find interesting about it?
That I have a closerrelationship with my siblings
than my sibling?
Beth (08:14):
Yeah, yeah, because I think what I have observed other
times is like people who arekind of not close to their
siblings kind of go, are notusually that close to the
siblings' children either,because it's like, well, I don't
really wanna, I don't reallywanna hang out with my sibling,
but if I hang out with mysiblings' kids, I'm gonna hang
(08:36):
out with my sibling.
You know what I mean.
So it's like that thing.
Steph (08:39):
Yeah, I do see what you're saying because yeah,
that's definitely like a thingthat goes along usually.
Yeah, I don't know, I do feelvery close to my nimblings and I
like doing life with them.
Which is what was cool when welived close is just doing stuff
together, having meals together,hanging out, not having to do
(09:02):
anything fancy, just like doinglife.
Beth (09:06):
But I mean from the moment each of them was born, they
were very important to you,which I think is beautiful,
absolutely beautiful.
It's just interesting to methat comes from a place other
than being close to a sibling.
Steph (09:22):
And I do.
Growing up I was never close tomy aunts and uncles and it was
just kind of like this is whatyou have to do, because this is
family.
You see them one point, twotimes a year and stuff like that
.
But and I remember that and Iwanted to be different from my
nimblings, I wanted to be likean involved aunt and I wanted
(09:43):
them to like wanna spend timewith me, or if they don't wanna
spend time with me, that'stotally fine.
I wanted to like make it notlike this is something you have
to do.
I just wanted to be like moreof a presence in their life than
just like this like obligationthing.
So I think that concept camefrom how I was raised and I was
like I want not necessarily howI was raised, just like how it
(10:04):
was because we weren't close toyou weren't geographically close
, yeah, and so that kind of justwas.
So I knew I wanted to be moreof a presence and I don't know,
they're just great kids andmaybe the fact that I never
wanted to have kids really andnever like had a desire, I think
a lot of times most of my auntsand uncles have kids and so
(10:26):
they're involved with their kidsand so, and then I have an aunt
and uncle that don't have kidsbut always wanted kids.
So I was never really close tothem either.
So maybe they didn't reallywanna get close to us because
they were upset about not havingkids, I don't know.
So maybe that's why I feelclose to them, because I never
wanted my own kids and I wantedto be present in their life.
(10:49):
So maybe that's kinda how itcame about.
Beth (10:52):
Cause you even say in the book and we just heard it when I
wasn't with my two nephews myheart felt like a slinky, one
part in Tallahassee and one inOrlando.
So again, that attachment tothem was really strong and
really beautiful from thebeginning.
Steph (11:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it was just kind of like an instant
thing and it wasn't any like,it wasn't something that I was
like.
Beth (11:13):
Yeah, it wasn't a conscious thing, it just kind of
happened yeah.
Steph (11:16):
You know, since this time we're getting into it, I'm
gonna be moving closer to themin the book, but since this time
in real life, they have movedto Orlando and I'm still in
Tallahassee.
So we have this like we swapped.
We swapped Also, your niece wasborn after this and I have an
niece.
Yeah, so I have three, threeniblings.
But it's not the exact samefeeling as it was back then of
(11:41):
like, oh, like I miss them,because I do see them fairly
often.
Um, possibly once a month I seethem, not like like if you were
to like average it out, butusually they stay with us over
the summer and like, so I do getlike a good time with them and
I'm about to see them.
In a week we're going to Orlando.
So, like we, we travel fairlyoften.
(12:02):
As I walked, I talked to Godabout my life and where I was
headed, I asked for his guidanceand direction.
There was darkness all aroundme.
The only light coming from thebright moon was reflected in the
water.
It felt like God was walkingwith me, holding my hand down
the beach, no longer walking onsand.
(12:23):
It felt like we were walking onwater together.
Beth (12:26):
Okay, I'll just stop you again, because it's like that
poem about the footprints, abouthow there there were two sets
of footprints and then therewere one and it was like God,
where did you go?
And then God's like hey, I wascarrying you.
It's like you had a moment likethat.
Steph (12:41):
I did yeah, and I know that poem.
That's like a very like.
Every Christian has that poem.
I know what?
Can I just tell you that?
Beth (12:47):
a couple of weeks ago, hannah, who's my daughter, who's
been on the podcast, she textedit to me like she had just
discovered it.
It was precious, it wasabsolutely precious.
I was like, oh, what a neatpoem.
I was like, by the way, yourgrandparents had that hanging on
the wall when I was a kid.
It's been around a bit.
Steph (13:06):
It's cute.
It's cute when people discoverthings.
But you know, I don't know if Ihad knew that poem, then, like,
I feel like probably did, likeit's such a like cliche, like
been around.
In the moment you discoveredyou're like, oh my gosh, wow.
And then the moment youdiscovered again and again
you're like, oh, okay, I meanit's so cool, but yeah, it's
like it's been around.
Beth (13:26):
Yeah, I didn't mean to make light of a moment, but it
really did make me think of thatpoem.
All right, so let's go back tolook, you're walking on the
beach with God as you do.
Steph (13:38):
In that moment I had no words, I just listened.
My mind went blank and I onlyheard his voice.
He told me it was time to leaveApple and that I had done good
and enough there.
It was time for me to leave myjob.
That much was clear.
But God wouldn't tell me whatjob I was to take next.
He made it clear that it wouldbe revealed later.
(13:59):
All I had to do was follow hispath.
God knew my concerns.
He knew my hesitations, withoutme expressing them.
After the walk, jason and I gotinto the car, but I didn't tell
him what had just happened.
It was too intense and personalto say.
In that moment, with mustardseed faith, I scheduled time
with my store leader, marco, totell him I was leaving.
(14:23):
Over my years with Apple, marcohad become a great mentor to me.
He had given me the month offto take care of my mental health
, had helped me developleadership skills and Encouraged
me every chance he could, andover the summer he had delivered
some validating news.
Every year, while I was atApple, employees would receive a
2 to 5% Raise based onachievements during the year.
(14:43):
I had pretty much received a 3%raise each year, but in the
summer of 2012, things hadchanged.
Normally, my direct superiorwould give me the news about my
race, but that summer, marco hadwanted to meet with me instead.
In the meeting, he told me myperformance have blown him away.
He also told me I was the firstperson who would learn about
(15:04):
their raise and that he wantedto share it with me Personally
because it was the highest inthe store.
After hearing that, I got alittle nervous and excited about
what he might say next.
He told me he had looked intomy salary and the salary of
others in my same position.
Based on his review, he wantedto bring my pay up substantially
.
Then he gave me the news Iwould be getting a 25% raise
(15:29):
Instantly.
That number empowered me.
The raise spoke louder thanwords.
It said you are doing a greatjob, you are noticed, you are
valued.
Now, here I was just a fewmonths later, making more money
than I ever had before, and Iwas preparing to quit a great
job.
It was a huge move, but withGod's direction, I was
determined to do it.
(15:49):
The day came to meet with Marco.
I was so nervous I took a 15minute break right before the
meeting to get myself together.
During my break I checked theemail on my phone and read a
message from my mom.
It said the director oftechnology ministry position had
just opened up at my hometownchurch.
Mom didn't know the details butshe had talked to the pastor in
charge.
The pastor knew me from highschool and I had interned with
(16:12):
the former director oftechnology ministries back then.
Given my history, he was veryinterested in having me apply.
My heart pounded hard thanharder.
This was it.
This was the next step.
I just knew it.
I put my phone away, went tomeet with Marco and I quit.
I gave him a month's notice soI could finish up any projects
(16:33):
and get the new Lee Creative setup for success.
We set my last day in the storeas February 1st.
Marco was very sad to see me goand he did ask if he could do
anything to make me stay.
But he understood why I wantedto be closer to family and
respected my decision.
As January progressed I had twophone interviews for the
director of technologyministries position, but I never
(16:56):
told the church I had alreadyleft my job.
The interviews went really welland I knew a few people on the
hiring committee.
My last day in the Apple storearrived, although I was to be
paid my official last work checkon February 9th.
During the first week ofFebruary I rented a moving truck
and packed up my Orlandoapartment.
I had an in-person interviewslash campus visit for the
(17:17):
director position in Tallahassee.
I heard the job had come downto me and a 55 year old man who
had a load more experience thanI did.
But that didn't stop me.
Deep down I knew the job wasmine.
I drove the moving truck to myparents house and unloaded it.
I planned on starting to lookfor a house in the next week, as
I had been wanting to own myown home for some time.
(17:37):
The next day I headed to thechurch for my campus visit.
I dined with staff members, hada short informal interview with
the hiring pastor and got thejob on February 9th.
In that moment the power of Godwas not lost on me.
I realized that my lastofficial day with Apple was the
same day that Calarn UnitedMethodist Church.
Calarn hired me.
(17:58):
My new job and new life began.
I could see my familypractically every day and I did.
I found the perfect threebedroom and two bath house.
It was rough around the edges,but I could see its potential.
It was rough around the edges,but I could see its potential.
I became a first-time homeownerin May 2013.
Everything felt right.
The pieces were falling intoplace and that's the house we
(18:22):
sit in today.
Beth (18:24):
Here we are.
I bet when you bought it oh, Iwonder, when you bought it Did
you think this would be apodcast studio?
Steph (18:30):
This was a guest room.
Yeah, so no.
Beth (18:34):
I can be it still is.
Steph (18:36):
Yeah, the couches, but it's a it's a lot of things.
Yeah, it's bursting at theseams with.
That's what it is.
Beth (18:44):
It's very multi-purpose and very comfortable actually I
like this room.
That's nice.
So I really relate to themoment you had with God on the
beach where God was like thischapter is over, you know, your
season at Apple is over.
That's what you need to knowright now.
Yeah right, you don't need toknow the next thing or the next
(19:06):
five things, just take this nextstep.
I relate to that because I feellike that's often how it is
with me and God, like that if Iknew the next Five steps, I
would totally get ahead ofmyself.
Right, I have come to peacewith.
Usually I'm only gonna know thenext right thing to do.
Just do the next right thingand then More will.
(19:26):
Then I'll understand better.
You know what to do after that.
Steph (19:29):
Yeah, that's actually a.
It's like a song or themewithin the frozen 2 movie is the
next right thing, and and Istill haven't seen that frozen
to well, both frozen and frozen2 are great, but I actually like
frozen 2 more.
There's kind of a really likevery Low moment for the on a
character where she's like justhas to like put one foot in
(19:51):
front of the other and that'slike all she can do and it's um.
Yeah, I think there's somereally good moments in that
movie, but anyways, yeah, Iagree, like there's definitely
times where I like get one stepbut don't know like the 10 steps
after.
And I've kind of come to peacewith that.
Like you know, and a lot ofthings, the older I get, I
(20:12):
realize it's feelings and I haveto trust those feelings.
It's like this feeling istelling me this, this feeling is
telling me that, and it's justit's hard.
I also feel like it's harder aslife gets progresses, because I
feel like you have naturalendings when you're younger in
life, like you have.
Like I'm graduating high school, I'm graduating college, you
know I'm starting my first job,I'm, you know, getting my first
(20:34):
house.
You know you have these likenatural kind of like places, but
then, as you get older, itbecomes more muddy and you can
easily just continue doing whatyou're doing for a very long
time, because there's no naturalthe next thing?
Beth (20:49):
Yeah, and maybe that's even more true when you are
self-employed, because you don'thave an annual review where
someone is, you know, markingtime for you and you don't have
someone saying oh you know,you've got two weeks of vacation
, use it or lose it.
You really are, you really areon your own to discern what the
(21:09):
next steps are and to sustaineverything.
So I think time does feeldifferent.
Time progresses differently aswe get older, but also I think
that that time moves differentlywhen you're self-employed.
Steph (21:22):
Yeah, for sure.
So have you ever done somethinglike I did here, where I just
like quit a job and you didn'tknow what you were doing next?
You just knew that you weredone with that job, Not in a
like I'm quit way, but just likein a I know this is over and
that I don't know what's next.
Beth (21:39):
I've definitely never quit a job without knowing what was
next.
I've always needed a reason,you know, to move on.
So I had to know what was nextto know, and you did.
I mean, you knew that coming toTallahassee to be closer to
your family was the right thing,was the next thing.
I think for me it's more thatI've started things without
really knowing beyond the nextstep.
(22:00):
You know like I agreed to be aninterim director of children's
ministry at the same church atCalarn, but I was really adamant
that it had to be on an interimbasis, that I knew that wasn't
what I was supposed to dolongterm, but it was what I was
supposed to do, right then.
Steph (22:13):
How long were you interim ?
Beth (22:15):
Just a school year, so just nine months, which was
Really which was much longerthan what I had agreed to.
Steph (22:20):
It was only nine months, and that's where we met.
Beth (22:23):
Yes.
Steph (22:23):
I thought we worked together the whole time.
No what in the world?
Oh, because then-.
But then I did volunteer foryou, you volunteered for me.
That's what it was Okay.
Beth (22:32):
Because when I wasn't working there, then I could
volunteer on Sunday mornings,and so I volunteered in the
sound booth.
The sound booth, okay.
Steph (22:39):
So that's why I feel like we worked together a lot,
because you were working thereas the director of children's
ministry at the beginning andthen you were done with that,
but then you volunteered fortech and then you and I got to
hang out a bunch during that.
Okay, that's why I feel like weworked together, because we did
in like, yeah, different ways,different ways, yeah, okay.
(23:02):
So what was the next thingafter the interim director that
you did?
Beth (23:08):
Well, while I was the interim director, I brought back
a program called Bible Basics.
We would give Bibles to thirdgraders and I created my own
curriculum and taught it andreally liked doing that.
And then one of the parentscame to me and said this is
embarrassing, but can you do aBible Basics for adults?
And I was like, yes, I can,let's do that.
(23:30):
And at the same time I knewfrom other things that were
happening in the church thatnobody was going to commit to
like a six-week study or asix-month study.
I don't know how we got throughour step study, but because
people, that was not a thingthat people were committing to,
and so I was like I'm going todo it as a one off workshop.
So that's when I created Bible100, which is where I kind of do
an overview of the Bible in 100minutes or less.
(23:51):
It's never or less, though.
In fact I just did it a coupleof weeks ago and it took me 120
minutes.
Steph (23:56):
Oh no, did you have your timer going?
Beth (23:58):
You're like really, fast or is the end?
Yeah, I have my timer going andthen I just turned it off and
then at the end somebody waslike that was a really good
Bible 120.
Oh, my gosh, sassy, sassy.
I know.
I was like well, you know, Ihad to add some extra stories
and that added some time.
Steph (24:13):
Did people ask questions that you could blame it on that?
No, no, it could be like it wasall me, you were the reason.
I was the reason for the videoof it, because, because you
edited it yeah.
I worked for the productioncompany that did editing, for
the company that produced it.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm remembering a storyinvolving your husband and
(24:34):
because there was like placeswhere you could volunteer within
the church and he worked on acommittee that was part of
getting transitioning a newpastor into the church and I
think, for some reason, like Iwas like making a video about
the new pastor but no one wassupposed to know about him yet,
so it was just me and yourhusband and this new pastor, and
(24:57):
maybe you were there.
Yeah, I think you were theretoo.
I was like in the back of thechurch, like I just remember it
specifically because I was inthe back of the church and I had
just started doing Mother ofour projects, like a couple of
weeks before or something.
I had just started like postingthese videos of like doing
projects around the house withmy mom.
And I remember Stephen, yourhusband.
I remember him being like so.
(25:17):
So what is this?
What is this video stuff you'redoing?
And I was like, oh, you know,just for fun.
He's like are you going to quitand do this full time?
I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, this isn't my job.
What do you know?
No, no, no, no, oh, my goodness.
And he was like, oh, okay, butI just remember that so
distinctively because you knowthat was so foreign, that
concept was such a foreignconcept to me, like I couldn't
(25:40):
even imagine like doing thatfull time and like not having a
standard nine to five job.
And I was like, oh, I couldnever do that.
And you were doing that, likeyou were doing this online
content, you had done Bible 100.
Like you were kind of, and youwere doing speaking events, like
you were doing that.
And I remember like thinkinglike I could never do that, like
just have like my own job andall that stuff, like.
But he was the first personthat like put that into my head
(26:03):
of like, but it totally made methink the opposite.
Like, no, I am not.
But then it was six monthslater.
Yeah, I freaking quit that joband I went full time, and so he
was right, he was right, he wasright.
He basically just wasn't righton the timing.
I wasn't quitting that day.
But just six months later I was, I was there, I quit, um, so I
(26:24):
don't know that just made methink of like him asking me that
and I was just like what?
Beth (26:28):
Yeah, that's not at all.
Steph (26:29):
Yeah, so I don't think that's the reason why, because a
white man suggested it.
I don't think that's why let'snot give him too much power.
But uh, it was the first timeto like, really like, just make
me like think, like, no, no, no,I could never, right.
So this is just a side hustle.
Beth (26:45):
This is just a hop.
Steph (26:45):
Yeah, this is just, you know, for fun, we're just doing
this, yeah.
Beth (26:50):
You were far more successful as an online content
creator than I ever was.
You had good content.
I had good content.
It was not, um, I never wasgood at monetizing it.
Well, that's cool.
That's that, that my Steve, mySteven was a small part of your
story, or that you even havethat memory.
That's cool, I like that.
Steph (27:10):
I really liked that idea of like the next right thing, of
knowing the next right thingbut not knowing knowing like the
next 10 right things.
And I always struggle like when?
When people are like what isyour 10 year plan?
Beth (27:20):
What is your next 10 year plan you?
Steph (27:22):
look like I never have a good answer for that, because I
am somebody that really tries tolive in every day and I don't.
I have no idea what's going tolook like in 10 years.
Like I just learned last yearthat I'm a lesbian.
Like that's huge.
Like I, if you had to, if I hadhad had a 10 year plan, that
wouldn't have been in it.
Like well, this year, learnyour own lesbian.
(27:43):
Like you know, there's just somany things that I have, no, I
can't see the future of, and soif I was to make a 10 year plan,
I feel like it would just boxme in so much to something that
I don't even know, like whatthat's going to look like.
So, yeah, I like that conceptof like the next right thing,
cause, as we're, you know,reading this chapter, like it's
cool to kind of see, likeremember this period of my life,
(28:06):
but I'm almost in anothertransition period of, like you
know, 10 years later, what doesthat next transition look like?
And all I know is the nextright thing.
Beth (28:16):
Right and and it's okay to lean into the next right thing
and trust that after that you'llknow the next right thing
Exactly.
Steph (28:28):
So, beth, as we're talking about the next right
thing, something that me and youhave talked about recently is
that, after we have finishedgoing through every chapter of
the book, that we are going totransition out of the podcast.
We have made that decision,which it doesn't come lightly.
(28:50):
This is something that's beenpart of our lives for five years
.
It'll be five years and westarted 2019,.
May 31st was our first date andthat will be our end date, just
in 2024.
Beth (29:08):
Yeah, from May 31st 2019 to May 31st 2024.
Steph (29:13):
Yeah, which just seems like a pretty little bow to have
on there, and we've alreadyplanned the next, all the next
episodes.
We have a lot of good stuffcoming up and finishing up the
book, so there's definitely morecontent to come.
Beth (29:25):
Yeah, and we're going to end well, we're not just
forgetting about this project orjust abandoning it.
No, we're going to end well, Ithink we always do things with
intention.
Steph (29:34):
It's not just like and it's done, we're like.
There's intention behind it.
Beth (29:37):
Yeah, so we're discerning the next right step.
Steph (29:40):
Yes, yeah, at the end of each episode we end with
questions for reflection.
These are questions based ontoday's show that Beth will read
and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself, or you can find thewritten in the description.
Beth (29:54):
Number one have you had the experience of knowing only
the next right step?
What was that like?
Number two Reflect on thetransitions in your life.
What is it like when atransition isn't attached to a
life event, like graduating fromschool?
Number three have you ever hada God moment or a sense of
knowing like Steph had on thebeach?
(30:15):
And number four what doeshaving faith mean to you?
Steph (30:21):
This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
Welcome to the Discover Our Scars Podcast.
Steph (00:05):
Where we share personal experiences so we can learn from
each other.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
I've been in recovery for 17years and am the author of
Discover my Scars, my memoirabout what's done in the
darkness eventually comes tolight.
Beth (00:16):
I'm a lawyer turned pastor , who's all about self-awareness
and emotional health, because Iknow what it's like to have
neither of those things.
Steph (00:23):
Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone
through a recovery programtogether, and when I wanted to
start a podcast, she was onlynamed to came to mind as co-host
.
Beth (00:30):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot
from sharing personalexperiences with Steph over the
years.
Steph (00:35):
We value honest conversations and we hope you do
too.
Beth (00:38):
On today's show, we're going to have an honest
conversation titled Discoveringmy Scars, Chapter 11.
Steph (00:43):
And the show, will close with questions for reflection.
Where we will invite you toreflect on the conversation in
your own life.
Beth (00:48):
So we're diving back into your memoir Discovering my Scars
.
As we've already said, this isgoing to be chapter 11.
So we're going to use the audiobook version of it and we're
going to listen to it, and thenwe're going to pause and ask and
have other discussions about it, and sometimes I ask you
questions when we do this andsometimes other information
comes to mind that you want toshare.
(01:09):
So, yeah, we've done it 10times, let's do it again.
Steph (01:13):
Yes, let's get into it.
This is chapter 11, Faith,which you'll hear me say in just
a second on the auto recordingas well.
So, just so you know, this is mein live, real life.
Then we're going to flip a pageand that will be me recorded.
Part three recovery.
Chapter 11, faith.
Even if you're not a fan ofApple, you know the name Steve
(01:35):
Jobs.
Steve was the CEO of Apple whenI was hired in 2007, the year
of the first iPhone.
He changed the way we work,communicate and use technology
in so many ways.
I feel honored to work for him,even in a small way.
When I became a creative, I wassent to Cupertino, california,
home to Apple's headquarters.
(01:56):
It awed me.
I saw huge, amazing buildingswhere the products I loved were
designed, and Steve was so close.
As we went through training, wewere told not to seek out Steve
and not to react if we saw him.
I had no problem with theseroles, but I was still vocal to
my training group about how coolit would be to see Steve.
(02:17):
Then it happened.
I was having lunch at Cafe Mac,the coolest and best food court
I had ever dined in.
The room seemed to get a littlequiet.
The friend I was talking tolooked at me and said don't turn
around, be cool.
I knew it had to be Steve.
Now, I was cool people.
I really was.
Slowly and casually, I lookedover my shoulder and watched as
(02:40):
the black turtleneck to Stevewalk to his office with a
colleague.
They were just walking andtalking casually to each other.
My eyes stayed on him the wholetime.
I wondered what they weretalking about A new product?
A new update?
Maybe about what they had forlunch?
It was a big moment for me.
I didn't need to talk to Steve,I didn't need to walk next to
(03:02):
him.
Being in his presence just thatone time was enough.
I do remember thinking, wow, helooks a lot thinner in person.
This was just two years beforeSteve passed away from cancer.
After he died, his biography byWalter Isaacson was released.
I bought it on my iPad and readit cover to cover.
By the middle of the book Ithought who's this crazy
(03:24):
arrogant man I'm reading about?
Oh wait, it's Steve FreakinJobs.
I enjoyed learning his lifestory and understanding the man
more than ever before, but howhe created Apple the ins and
outs of his business is not whatstayed with me.
At the end of the book hetalked about his one regret.
It wasn't the products hedidn't release and it wasn't
leaving the company in the 90sand coming back, his biggest
(03:45):
regret was not spending enoughtime with his family.
The most successful man I'veever seen in my lifetime
regretted that his kids did notknow him.
That stuck with me.
After reading his book, mydefinition of success changed.
Success was no longer aboutworking all the hours of the day
or making all the money, butabout spending time with my
family.
Sometimes on my work breaks, Iwould walk around the mall and
(04:09):
call my mom.
In these calls, she told meabout the many meals she, my dad
, brother, sister-in-law andnephew all shared together.
I would hear of the weekendswhen they had just hung out, not
doing much, but doing ittogether.
I longed to be a part of thenothing and everything they did
together.
The burden of being four hoursaway from my family started to
(04:29):
take a toll.
My second nephew was set to beborn right before Christmas 2012
.
I smiled nonstop when my storeleader, marco, gave me the time
off to be in Tallahassee for thebirth.
But with all my planning, youcan't really plan a natural
birth.
And of course, he was born aweek late.
He came into this world in theearly morning of the day I
(04:49):
needed to go back to Orlando.
I saw him for about 20 minutesbefore I had to drive away.
It pained me so much to leavehim so soon.
When I wasn't with my twonephews, my heart felt like a
slinky One part in Tallahasseeand one in Orlando.
When I was in Orlando, itconstantly wanted to slinky back
to Tallahassee, to be all inone piece.
I felt whole in Tallahassee,but not in Orlando.
(05:13):
Back at Apple after the birth, Idid my job, but my heart was
not into the daily grind anymore.
I had reached the five yearmark working for Apple a few
months before and the job hadstarted to feel stale.
I needed to clear my head.
So Jason suggested we go to oneof my favorite places the beach
at night.
On the night of January 1st2013, we headed to Cocoa Beach,
(05:34):
about 45 minutes from ourapartments.
When we arrived, it was perfectthe surface calm and the air
was crisp, cool and peaceful.
Jason walked a few paces behindme so I could walk alone on the
wet sand.
Beth (05:47):
All right, so I wanted to have you pause it there, because
that's pretty cool that you sawSteve Jobs in person.
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
Also, I don't really believeyou when you say I was cool
people I really was, that youwere slow and casual and how you
turned around.
I'm not sure I believe you.
I think maybe in your own mindyou were slow and casual and if
(06:09):
I saw it in real life you werelike the Tasmanian devil, like
whipping around as fast as youcould to see him.
Steph (06:14):
I didn't run up to him or anything, so I was cool.
In that sense.
I mean, I think that counts asbeing cool.
I mean, how many people can saythey've seen Steve Jobs in real
life?
I mean, he's been dead over.
I can't remember what year hepassed, I think it was 09.
So I mean, it's been a longtime.
Yeah, I mean.
Beth (06:32):
I can't say that I've ever seen yeah.
Steph (06:34):
I mean I didn't realize, like, how soon he was gonna pass
after that.
So you know, that was.
I mean he created this wholething Like obviously it's more
complicated than that.
Beth (06:47):
Like there's two.
Steph (06:47):
Steve's that were really involved.
Steve was, and Jobs was reallymore the businessman, the
marketing man, which which isnecessary, really everything.
Yeah, you could have the bestproduct in the world, but if no
one knows about it, there you go.
Shark Tank tells us that, butyeah, so it was definitely like
a cool thing.
But I've also seen Was SteveWas who actually created the
(07:12):
hardware of the Apple computer.
He came to Tallahassee a coupleyears ago to do a talk and I
got to see him and that was socool, like so I have seen both
Steve's in my lifetime, sothat's pretty cool.
Beth (07:23):
I mean, I see a special Steve every day.
Steph (07:25):
You see a pretty cool Steve.
Yeah, you have a pretty coolSteve.
I see my husband Steve everyday.
Do you call him?
Beth (07:31):
Steve.
No, I call him Steven I callhim Steven.
So I wanna ask you somethingelse, but you don't have to
leave this in because I don'tknow, like I don't wanna create
trouble.
In this excerpt that we justlistened to, you know, you talk
about the importance of beingwith family and let me just say
like it makes sense to me thatSteve Jobs' biggest regret was
not spending more time with hisfamily.
Like there's an expressionabout how nobody ever puts on
(07:54):
their tombstone.
You know, wish I had workedmore, like that's not a thing,
but you and your brother havenot been especially close, but
you're very attached to hischildren, which I think is kind
of interesting.
Steph (08:08):
What do you find interesting about it?
That I have a closerrelationship with my siblings
than my sibling?
Beth (08:14):
Yeah, yeah, because I think what I have observed other
times is like people who arekind of not close to their
siblings kind of go, are notusually that close to the
siblings' children either,because it's like, well, I don't
really wanna, I don't reallywanna hang out with my sibling,
but if I hang out with mysiblings' kids, I'm gonna hang
(08:36):
out with my sibling.
You know what I mean.
So it's like that thing.
Steph (08:39):
Yeah, I do see what you're saying because yeah,
that's definitely like a thingthat goes along usually.
Yeah, I don't know, I do feelvery close to my nimblings and I
like doing life with them.
Which is what was cool when welived close is just doing stuff
together, having meals together,hanging out, not having to do
(09:02):
anything fancy, just like doinglife.
Beth (09:06):
But I mean from the moment each of them was born, they
were very important to you,which I think is beautiful,
absolutely beautiful.
It's just interesting to methat comes from a place other
than being close to a sibling.
Steph (09:22):
And I do.
Growing up I was never close tomy aunts and uncles and it was
just kind of like this is whatyou have to do, because this is
family.
You see them one point, twotimes a year and stuff like that
.
But and I remember that and Iwanted to be different from my
nimblings, I wanted to be likean involved aunt and I wanted
(09:43):
them to like wanna spend timewith me, or if they don't wanna
spend time with me, that'stotally fine.
I wanted to like make it notlike this is something you have
to do.
I just wanted to be like moreof a presence in their life than
just like this like obligationthing.
So I think that concept camefrom how I was raised and I was
like I want not necessarily howI was raised, just like how it
(10:04):
was because we weren't close toyou weren't geographically close
, yeah, and so that kind of justwas.
So I knew I wanted to be moreof a presence and I don't know,
they're just great kids andmaybe the fact that I never
wanted to have kids really andnever like had a desire, I think
a lot of times most of my auntsand uncles have kids and so
(10:26):
they're involved with their kidsand so, and then I have an aunt
and uncle that don't have kidsbut always wanted kids.
So I was never really close tothem either.
So maybe they didn't reallywanna get close to us because
they were upset about not havingkids, I don't know.
So maybe that's why I feelclose to them, because I never
wanted my own kids and I wantedto be present in their life.
(10:49):
So maybe that's kinda how itcame about.
Beth (10:52):
Cause you even say in the book and we just heard it when I
wasn't with my two nephews myheart felt like a slinky, one
part in Tallahassee and one inOrlando.
So again, that attachment tothem was really strong and
really beautiful from thebeginning.
Steph (11:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it was just kind of like an instant
thing and it wasn't any like,it wasn't something that I was
like.
Beth (11:13):
Yeah, it wasn't a conscious thing, it just kind of
happened yeah.
Steph (11:16):
You know, since this time we're getting into it, I'm
gonna be moving closer to themin the book, but since this time
in real life, they have movedto Orlando and I'm still in
Tallahassee.
So we have this like we swapped.
We swapped Also, your niece wasborn after this and I have an
niece.
Yeah, so I have three, threeniblings.
But it's not the exact samefeeling as it was back then of
(11:41):
like, oh, like I miss them,because I do see them fairly
often.
Um, possibly once a month I seethem, not like like if you were
to like average it out, butusually they stay with us over
the summer and like, so I do getlike a good time with them and
I'm about to see them.
In a week we're going to Orlando.
So, like we, we travel fairlyoften.
(12:02):
As I walked, I talked to Godabout my life and where I was
headed, I asked for his guidanceand direction.
There was darkness all aroundme.
The only light coming from thebright moon was reflected in the
water.
It felt like God was walkingwith me, holding my hand down
the beach, no longer walking onsand.
(12:23):
It felt like we were walking onwater together.
Beth (12:26):
Okay, I'll just stop you again, because it's like that
poem about the footprints, abouthow there there were two sets
of footprints and then therewere one and it was like God,
where did you go?
And then God's like hey, I wascarrying you.
It's like you had a moment likethat.
Steph (12:41):
I did yeah, and I know that poem.
That's like a very like.
Every Christian has that poem.
I know what?
Can I just tell you that?
Beth (12:47):
a couple of weeks ago, hannah, who's my daughter, who's
been on the podcast, she textedit to me like she had just
discovered it.
It was precious, it wasabsolutely precious.
I was like, oh, what a neatpoem.
I was like, by the way, yourgrandparents had that hanging on
the wall when I was a kid.
It's been around a bit.
Steph (13:06):
It's cute.
It's cute when people discoverthings.
But you know, I don't know if Ihad knew that poem, then, like,
I feel like probably did, likeit's such a like cliche, like
been around.
In the moment you discoveredyou're like, oh my gosh, wow.
And then the moment youdiscovered again and again
you're like, oh, okay, I meanit's so cool, but yeah, it's
like it's been around.
Beth (13:26):
Yeah, I didn't mean to make light of a moment, but it
really did make me think of thatpoem.
All right, so let's go back tolook, you're walking on the
beach with God as you do.
Steph (13:38):
In that moment I had no words, I just listened.
My mind went blank and I onlyheard his voice.
He told me it was time to leaveApple and that I had done good
and enough there.
It was time for me to leave myjob.
That much was clear.
But God wouldn't tell me whatjob I was to take next.
He made it clear that it wouldbe revealed later.
(13:59):
All I had to do was follow hispath.
God knew my concerns.
He knew my hesitations, withoutme expressing them.
After the walk, jason and I gotinto the car, but I didn't tell
him what had just happened.
It was too intense and personalto say.
In that moment, with mustardseed faith, I scheduled time
with my store leader, marco, totell him I was leaving.
(14:23):
Over my years with Apple, marcohad become a great mentor to me.
He had given me the month offto take care of my mental health
, had helped me developleadership skills and Encouraged
me every chance he could, andover the summer he had delivered
some validating news.
Every year, while I was atApple, employees would receive a
2 to 5% Raise based onachievements during the year.
(14:43):
I had pretty much received a 3%raise each year, but in the
summer of 2012, things hadchanged.
Normally, my direct superiorwould give me the news about my
race, but that summer, marco hadwanted to meet with me instead.
In the meeting, he told me myperformance have blown him away.
He also told me I was the firstperson who would learn about
(15:04):
their raise and that he wantedto share it with me Personally
because it was the highest inthe store.
After hearing that, I got alittle nervous and excited about
what he might say next.
He told me he had looked intomy salary and the salary of
others in my same position.
Based on his review, he wantedto bring my pay up substantially
.
Then he gave me the news Iwould be getting a 25% raise
(15:29):
Instantly.
That number empowered me.
The raise spoke louder thanwords.
It said you are doing a greatjob, you are noticed, you are
valued.
Now, here I was just a fewmonths later, making more money
than I ever had before, and Iwas preparing to quit a great
job.
It was a huge move, but withGod's direction, I was
determined to do it.
(15:49):
The day came to meet with Marco.
I was so nervous I took a 15minute break right before the
meeting to get myself together.
During my break I checked theemail on my phone and read a
message from my mom.
It said the director oftechnology ministry position had
just opened up at my hometownchurch.
Mom didn't know the details butshe had talked to the pastor in
charge.
The pastor knew me from highschool and I had interned with
(16:12):
the former director oftechnology ministries back then.
Given my history, he was veryinterested in having me apply.
My heart pounded hard thanharder.
This was it.
This was the next step.
I just knew it.
I put my phone away, went tomeet with Marco and I quit.
I gave him a month's notice soI could finish up any projects
(16:33):
and get the new Lee Creative setup for success.
We set my last day in the storeas February 1st.
Marco was very sad to see me goand he did ask if he could do
anything to make me stay.
But he understood why I wantedto be closer to family and
respected my decision.
As January progressed I had twophone interviews for the
director of technologyministries position, but I never
(16:56):
told the church I had alreadyleft my job.
The interviews went really welland I knew a few people on the
hiring committee.
My last day in the Apple storearrived, although I was to be
paid my official last work checkon February 9th.
During the first week ofFebruary I rented a moving truck
and packed up my Orlandoapartment.
I had an in-person interviewslash campus visit for the
(17:17):
director position in Tallahassee.
I heard the job had come downto me and a 55 year old man who
had a load more experience thanI did.
But that didn't stop me.
Deep down I knew the job wasmine.
I drove the moving truck to myparents house and unloaded it.
I planned on starting to lookfor a house in the next week, as
I had been wanting to own myown home for some time.
(17:37):
The next day I headed to thechurch for my campus visit.
I dined with staff members, hada short informal interview with
the hiring pastor and got thejob on February 9th.
In that moment the power of Godwas not lost on me.
I realized that my lastofficial day with Apple was the
same day that Calarn UnitedMethodist Church.
Calarn hired me.
(17:58):
My new job and new life began.
I could see my familypractically every day and I did.
I found the perfect threebedroom and two bath house.
It was rough around the edges,but I could see its potential.
It was rough around the edges,but I could see its potential.
I became a first-time homeownerin May 2013.
Everything felt right.
The pieces were falling intoplace and that's the house we
(18:22):
sit in today.
Beth (18:24):
Here we are.
I bet when you bought it oh, Iwonder, when you bought it Did
you think this would be apodcast studio?
Steph (18:30):
This was a guest room.
Yeah, so no.
Beth (18:34):
I can be it still is.
Steph (18:36):
Yeah, the couches, but it's a it's a lot of things.
Yeah, it's bursting at theseams with.
That's what it is.
Beth (18:44):
It's very multi-purpose and very comfortable actually I
like this room.
That's nice.
So I really relate to themoment you had with God on the
beach where God was like thischapter is over, you know, your
season at Apple is over.
That's what you need to knowright now.
Yeah right, you don't need toknow the next thing or the next
(19:06):
five things, just take this nextstep.
I relate to that because I feellike that's often how it is
with me and God, like that if Iknew the next Five steps, I
would totally get ahead ofmyself.
Right, I have come to peacewith.
Usually I'm only gonna know thenext right thing to do.
Just do the next right thingand then More will.
(19:26):
Then I'll understand better.
You know what to do after that.
Steph (19:29):
Yeah, that's actually a.
It's like a song or themewithin the frozen 2 movie is the
next right thing, and and Istill haven't seen that frozen
to well, both frozen and frozen2 are great, but I actually like
frozen 2 more.
There's kind of a really likevery Low moment for the on a
character where she's like justhas to like put one foot in
(19:51):
front of the other and that'slike all she can do and it's um.
Yeah, I think there's somereally good moments in that
movie, but anyways, yeah, Iagree, like there's definitely
times where I like get one stepbut don't know like the 10 steps
after.
And I've kind of come to peacewith that.
Like you know, and a lot ofthings, the older I get, I
(20:12):
realize it's feelings and I haveto trust those feelings.
It's like this feeling istelling me this, this feeling is
telling me that, and it's justit's hard.
I also feel like it's harder aslife gets progresses, because I
feel like you have naturalendings when you're younger in
life, like you have.
Like I'm graduating high school, I'm graduating college, you
know I'm starting my first job,I'm, you know, getting my first
(20:34):
house.
You know you have these likenatural kind of like places, but
then, as you get older, itbecomes more muddy and you can
easily just continue doing whatyou're doing for a very long
time, because there's no naturalthe next thing?
Beth (20:49):
Yeah, and maybe that's even more true when you are
self-employed, because you don'thave an annual review where
someone is, you know, markingtime for you and you don't have
someone saying oh you know,you've got two weeks of vacation
, use it or lose it.
You really are, you really areon your own to discern what the
(21:09):
next steps are and to sustaineverything.
So I think time does feeldifferent.
Time progresses differently aswe get older, but also I think
that that time moves differentlywhen you're self-employed.
Steph (21:22):
Yeah, for sure.
So have you ever done somethinglike I did here, where I just
like quit a job and you didn'tknow what you were doing next?
You just knew that you weredone with that job, Not in a
like I'm quit way, but just likein a I know this is over and
that I don't know what's next.
Beth (21:39):
I've definitely never quit a job without knowing what was
next.
I've always needed a reason,you know, to move on.
So I had to know what was nextto know, and you did.
I mean, you knew that coming toTallahassee to be closer to
your family was the right thing,was the next thing.
I think for me it's more thatI've started things without
really knowing beyond the nextstep.
(22:00):
You know like I agreed to be aninterim director of children's
ministry at the same church atCalarn, but I was really adamant
that it had to be on an interimbasis, that I knew that wasn't
what I was supposed to dolongterm, but it was what I was
supposed to do, right then.
Steph (22:13):
How long were you interim ?
Beth (22:15):
Just a school year, so just nine months, which was
Really which was much longerthan what I had agreed to.
Steph (22:20):
It was only nine months, and that's where we met.
Beth (22:23):
Yes.
Steph (22:23):
I thought we worked together the whole time.
No what in the world?
Oh, because then-.
But then I did volunteer foryou, you volunteered for me.
That's what it was Okay.
Beth (22:32):
Because when I wasn't working there, then I could
volunteer on Sunday mornings,and so I volunteered in the
sound booth.
The sound booth, okay.
Steph (22:39):
So that's why I feel like we worked together a lot,
because you were working thereas the director of children's
ministry at the beginning andthen you were done with that,
but then you volunteered fortech and then you and I got to
hang out a bunch during that.
Okay, that's why I feel like weworked together, because we did
in like, yeah, different ways,different ways, yeah, okay.
(23:02):
So what was the next thingafter the interim director that
you did?
Beth (23:08):
Well, while I was the interim director, I brought back
a program called Bible Basics.
We would give Bibles to thirdgraders and I created my own
curriculum and taught it andreally liked doing that.
And then one of the parentscame to me and said this is
embarrassing, but can you do aBible Basics for adults?
And I was like, yes, I can,let's do that.
(23:30):
And at the same time I knewfrom other things that were
happening in the church thatnobody was going to commit to
like a six-week study or asix-month study.
I don't know how we got throughour step study, but because
people, that was not a thingthat people were committing to,
and so I was like I'm going todo it as a one off workshop.
So that's when I created Bible100, which is where I kind of do
an overview of the Bible in 100minutes or less.
(23:51):
It's never or less, though.
In fact I just did it a coupleof weeks ago and it took me 120
minutes.
Steph (23:56):
Oh no, did you have your timer going?
Beth (23:58):
You're like really, fast or is the end?
Yeah, I have my timer going andthen I just turned it off and
then at the end somebody waslike that was a really good
Bible 120.
Oh, my gosh, sassy, sassy.
I know.
I was like well, you know, Ihad to add some extra stories
and that added some time.
Steph (24:13):
Did people ask questions that you could blame it on that?
No, no, it could be like it wasall me, you were the reason.
I was the reason for the videoof it, because, because you
edited it yeah.
I worked for the productioncompany that did editing, for
the company that produced it.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm remembering a storyinvolving your husband and
(24:34):
because there was like placeswhere you could volunteer within
the church and he worked on acommittee that was part of
getting transitioning a newpastor into the church and I
think, for some reason, like Iwas like making a video about
the new pastor but no one wassupposed to know about him yet,
so it was just me and yourhusband and this new pastor, and
(24:57):
maybe you were there.
Yeah, I think you were theretoo.
I was like in the back of thechurch, like I just remember it
specifically because I was inthe back of the church and I had
just started doing Mother ofour projects, like a couple of
weeks before or something.
I had just started like postingthese videos of like doing
projects around the house withmy mom.
And I remember Stephen, yourhusband.
I remember him being like so.
(25:17):
So what is this?
What is this video stuff you'redoing?
And I was like, oh, you know,just for fun.
He's like are you going to quitand do this full time?
I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, this isn't my job.
What do you know?
No, no, no, no, oh, my goodness.
And he was like, oh, okay, butI just remember that so
distinctively because you knowthat was so foreign, that
concept was such a foreignconcept to me, like I couldn't
(25:40):
even imagine like doing thatfull time and like not having a
standard nine to five job.
And I was like, oh, I couldnever do that.
And you were doing that, likeyou were doing this online
content, you had done Bible 100.
Like you were kind of, and youwere doing speaking events, like
you were doing that.
And I remember like thinkinglike I could never do that, like
just have like my own job andall that stuff, like.
But he was the first personthat like put that into my head
(26:03):
of like, but it totally made methink the opposite.
Like, no, I am not.
But then it was six monthslater.
Yeah, I freaking quit that joband I went full time, and so he
was right, he was right, he wasright.
He basically just wasn't righton the timing.
I wasn't quitting that day.
But just six months later I was, I was there, I quit, um, so I
(26:24):
don't know that just made methink of like him asking me that
and I was just like what?
Beth (26:28):
Yeah, that's not at all.
Steph (26:29):
Yeah, so I don't think that's the reason why, because a
white man suggested it.
I don't think that's why let'snot give him too much power.
But uh, it was the first timeto like, really like, just make
me like think, like, no, no, no,I could never, right.
So this is just a side hustle.
Beth (26:45):
This is just a hop.
Steph (26:45):
Yeah, this is just, you know, for fun, we're just doing
this, yeah.
Beth (26:50):
You were far more successful as an online content
creator than I ever was.
You had good content.
I had good content.
It was not, um, I never wasgood at monetizing it.
Well, that's cool.
That's that, that my Steve, mySteven was a small part of your
story, or that you even havethat memory.
That's cool, I like that.
Steph (27:10):
I really liked that idea of like the next right thing, of
knowing the next right thingbut not knowing knowing like the
next 10 right things.
And I always struggle like when?
When people are like what isyour 10 year plan?
Beth (27:20):
What is your next 10 year plan you?
Steph (27:22):
look like I never have a good answer for that, because I
am somebody that really tries tolive in every day and I don't.
I have no idea what's going tolook like in 10 years.
Like I just learned last yearthat I'm a lesbian.
Like that's huge.
Like I, if you had to, if I hadhad had a 10 year plan, that
wouldn't have been in it.
Like well, this year, learnyour own lesbian.
(27:43):
Like you know, there's just somany things that I have, no, I
can't see the future of, and soif I was to make a 10 year plan,
I feel like it would just boxme in so much to something that
I don't even know, like whatthat's going to look like.
So, yeah, I like that conceptof like the next right thing,
cause, as we're, you know,reading this chapter, like it's
cool to kind of see, likeremember this period of my life,
(28:06):
but I'm almost in anothertransition period of, like you
know, 10 years later, what doesthat next transition look like?
And all I know is the nextright thing.
Beth (28:16):
Right and and it's okay to lean into the next right thing
and trust that after that you'llknow the next right thing
Exactly.
Steph (28:28):
So, beth, as we're talking about the next right
thing, something that me and youhave talked about recently is
that, after we have finishedgoing through every chapter of
the book, that we are going totransition out of the podcast.
We have made that decision,which it doesn't come lightly.
(28:50):
This is something that's beenpart of our lives for five years
.
It'll be five years and westarted 2019,.
May 31st was our first date andthat will be our end date, just
in 2024.
Beth (29:08):
Yeah, from May 31st 2019 to May 31st 2024.
Steph (29:13):
Yeah, which just seems like a pretty little bow to have
on there, and we've alreadyplanned the next, all the next
episodes.
We have a lot of good stuffcoming up and finishing up the
book, so there's definitely morecontent to come.
Beth (29:25):
Yeah, and we're going to end well, we're not just
forgetting about this project orjust abandoning it.
No, we're going to end well, Ithink we always do things with
intention.
Steph (29:34):
It's not just like and it's done, we're like.
There's intention behind it.
Beth (29:37):
Yeah, so we're discerning the next right step.
Steph (29:40):
Yes, yeah, at the end of each episode we end with
questions for reflection.
These are questions based ontoday's show that Beth will read
and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself, or you can find thewritten in the description.
Beth (29:54):
Number one have you had the experience of knowing only
the next right step?
What was that like?
Number two Reflect on thetransitions in your life.
What is it like when atransition isn't attached to a
life event, like graduating fromschool?
Number three have you ever hada God moment or a sense of
knowing like Steph had on thebeach?
(30:15):
And number four what doeshaving faith mean to you?
Steph (30:21):
This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
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