February 23, 2024 • 30 mins
Chances are good that you’ve heard of “The Twelve Steps.” These are often discussed in the context of addiction recovery, but Steph and Beth both learned a lot by walking the steps as part of a step study. Each step helps you address those hurts, habits, and hangups that get in your way. It was a helpful process for them in that season of life. In this episode, Steph and Beth listen to and discuss chapter 12 of Steph’s memoir and share some of their memories beyond what’s captured in the book.
Questions for Reflection:
(1) What are your hurts, habits, or hang-ups?
(2) Who are the people in your life who keep you accountable? Have you been intentional about developing accountability partners?
(3) Is there something you found beneficial in the past that you wouldn’t participate in now?
(4) Reflect on someone who was in your life for only a season. What was the impact that person made on you? Why did that season end?
Show notes:
Episode 14: Invisible Scars, What We Discover in Recovery (with Lori K.)
Buy Discovering My Scars
Audiobook: https://amzn.to/2XCe9a3
Paperback: https://amzn.to/2O4U5dh
ebook: https://amzn.to/2r8mPsA
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth (00:04):
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Steph (00:06):
Where we share personal experiences so we can learn from
each other.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
I've been in recovery for 17years and am the author of
Discovering my Scars, my memoirabout what's done in the
darkness eventually comes tolight.
Beth (00:17):
I'm a lawyer turned pastor who's all about self-awareness
and emotional health, because Iknow what it's like to have
neither of those things.
Steph (00:24):
Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone
through a recovery programtogether, and when I wanted to
start a podcast, she was theonly name that came to mind as
co-host.
Beth (00:31):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot
from sharing personalexperiences with Steph over the
years.
We value honest conversationsand we hope you do too.
On today's show we're going tohave an honest conversation
titled Discovering my ScarsChapter 12.
Then we'll close the show withquestions for reflection.
Steph (00:47):
We'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in
your own life.
All right, Beth, you ready toget into?
Beth (00:52):
Chapter 12?
Yeah, so we're going to playthe audio book and then so
you'll hear Steph's voice.
But it's a recording of Steph'svoice, so we have Steph live
and recorded and then we'llpause it from time to time and
talk about what Steph isrevealing in the book.
Steph (01:12):
Chapter 12, recovery 2.0.
I had seven years off and on oftherapy with Dr Jill.
When I moved back toTallahassee I started to feel a
pull like I needed more.
I felt like I needed Christiancommunity recovery.
So I sought it from CelebrateRecovery CR, a Christ-centered
12-step recovery program.
It's an internationalfellowship but it has a very
(01:34):
strong following at Calarn.
Back in high school I producedvideos for my church to show on
Sunday mornings.
The videos were typically aboutdifferent church ministries and
upcoming events.
In 2003, the church wanted meto produce a video about a new
program.
They were starting the verysame Celebrate Recovery that I
was now planning to attend.
(01:54):
In the video, three peopleshared their many testimonies.
I can still clearly rememberwhere I filmed and what they
talked about.
It was the first time I canremember people in church
talking so openly and honestlyabout life struggles such as
mental illness, alcoholism andsuicide attempts.
When I started working atCalarn, some of the ministry
(02:15):
leaders set up lunches with me.
One of those meetings was withLori, a CR leader.
During lunch I asked questionsabout CR and what it offered.
Lori enthusiastically sharedinformation about it and
mentioned she had tried to starta staff lady's step study but
no one had been interested.
I jumped in and said we shouldtry to start one again.
Hey, I remember that.
(02:37):
You remember wanting to be in astep study.
Beth (02:41):
I remember you and a co-worker who, because we were
working, we were both working atthis place at Calarn, at the
church, and you came into myoffice and were like hey, we
want to start a step study.
Steph (02:52):
I was like, okay, no, you said yes because you're an easy
yes, I'm an easy yes.
Little did I know how easy youwere at.
You would say yes to anything.
I guess you were not part ofthe staff when she originally
tried to start a step study,because you would have been an
easy yes back then.
Beth (03:13):
Yeah, that's probably right, because I wasn't on staff
all that long.
Actually start to finish, itwas only nine months.
Steph (03:19):
I was only over there in a temporary capacity and you
weren't even still on staff atthe end of the step, study right
, but you continued it.
Beth (03:26):
Yeah, I wanted to finish.
Steph (03:28):
Had you known about step studies?
What was your history?
As we saw, my history was I hadmade a video when Celebrate
Recovery first came to Calarnand was really just intrigued by
these stories of being sohonest in church, and I always
was like wanted to do it but thetiming wasn't right.
So what was your history with?
Beth (03:51):
Celebrate Recovery.
It was something that I knewthat we offered on Friday nights
, but it was not something thatI had been a part of, but I had
been in therapy.
I had gone through a periodwhere I was in weekly therapy
working on my anger issues, andthen I was.
I was not still going weekly atthis point, I was going on an
(04:11):
as needed basis but but I knewthat I had hurt habits and
hangups that I needed to work onand I was also interested in
like building community andbeing part of the community,
which is the thing about thestep study that appealed to me.
And I also want to remember tosay that Lori, who you just
mentioned in the book, she wasour guest on episode 14.
Steph (04:32):
Yes, that was a while ago Because we wanted to have her
on, like, talking aboutCelebrate Recovery, which we did
so link to in the descriptionof that episode where we talked
more about this program that wewere part of years ago.
Now it's been.
Beth (04:45):
And I also understood like a general idea of what the 12
steps were.
I mean, we kind of say this inthe intro but like I really am
into self awareness I alwayshave been, and especially since
I did go through that, that timeperiod when my kids were
toddlers, when I really realizedI needed weekly therapy, like
that was.
I was like, oh, the selfawareness is changing everything
, you know, making everythingbetter, Everything clearer.
(05:07):
So I've just figured this wasanother opportunity for that.
Steph (05:12):
And did you know specifically what you wanted to
work on like within the program,or did you just just self
awareness?
Beth (05:20):
just self awareness I mean although I will say I still
really value the confidentialityaround this not for myself, but
I don't want to violate anyoneelse's, so I want to be careful
how I say this but one personsaid that they were working on
self sufficiency and that was alight bulb moment for me.
That that is.
That is a habit that I defaultto when I'm not my healthiest,
(05:43):
and so that became a focus forme in the course of our step
study.
I was like, oh yeah, I amrecovering from self sufficiency
and that presents in a lot ofways.
It gets in the way inrelationships, it gets in the
way of my in my spiritual walk.
I get really, even now I'mgrateful to have had that
opportunity to have worked on it.
Steph (06:02):
Yeah, and as I'm thinking through, is there's not like
one thing specifically that Ican remember was my thing that I
was working on.
I knew my coping with selfinjury was something that I
definitely wanted to recoverfrom, but I don't know if that's
what I said, like if that's theway I phrased it.
Beth (06:26):
Because that really was you didn't share that right away
?
I don't think.
Steph (06:28):
Well, and that really wasn't my issue, it was learning
why.
That was my coping mechanismthat I needed to work on.
And the thing is I really don'tremember a lot of what was said
in the step studies, even whatI said or what other people said
, because part of Because it wasso long ago it will.
Now I'm realizing, yeah, I dohave all the documents like I
(06:49):
can look them up, like myinventory and stuff I could like
look back, but it's becausethere's such a celebrate
recovery is so much it's almostmysterious in a way because of
the confidentiality element toit and how big of a part of
celebrate recovery and not in abad way where, like we're
(07:10):
covering things up.
It's confidential in a waywhere you can say anything and
that doesn't get out Like youcould have a coworker all of us
were coworkers, coworkers inyour group and they're never
gonna say anything outside ofgroup about what you said
because it's very confidential.
So I think I do remember likeglances of what people said, but
it's not my stuff so I wouldnever like bring it up because
(07:33):
it's not even now, even thoughit's been 10 years, that's still
like it was under this blanketof like confidentiality.
It's like no, like I would, no,it's almost like we signed an
NDA but we didn't.
But we did.
I guess we did with God.
Beth (07:49):
Well, and it's okay for us to say like we were in the
study together, because we'reboth okay saying that, but and
Lori said it, and Lori said itwhen she was in episode, but we
wouldn't talk about who else wasin it.
No, of course that would betheir information.
Steph (07:59):
Exactly.
We would only let somebody sayit if and I do think it was
known who was in that groupbecause we met during it was a
more staff thing and so it waskinda it was known, but again we
would never like publicly saybecause?
Well, first of all, why?
Beth (08:15):
it doesn't matter, it wouldn't be relevant to anything
, but there was and it was okayfor it to be known among other
staff members because it wassupported.
It was like, yeah, it was.
Yeah, we think this is a goodthing that you are doing this
and so-.
Steph (08:30):
And we wanted others to be encouraged to possibly join
one or and we actually did asecond one.
You weren't there anymore, butI was part of a second one and
we had a couple more people thatjoined, and that's really what
it is is you choose to tellothers if you want, and we all
kind of agreed that the peopleon staff could know about it.
(08:51):
I mean, obviously we didn'ttalk about what we said in it,
but we wanted people to knowthat, yeah, I have her habits
and hang ups and I'm part ofthis and I'm not ashamed to say
that I'm in this and I thinkeveryone can benefit from
sharing their stuff in a safeenvironment.
Like, I still will say that.
Beth (09:09):
Yeah, I agree.
Okay, let's go back to the book.
Steph (09:13):
A step study is an intense nine months of going
through the 12 steps of CR.
It's similar to alcoholicsynonymous steps, but generic,
so participants can relate toany hurts, habits or hang ups,
not just alcohol.
Okay, we talked about CRrecently and we could not
remember how long it took andit's nine months.
Beth (09:33):
It takes nine months.
Steph (09:36):
Once we advertised the group, we found a few staff
ladies who were interested injoining us.
This group was nothing like Ihad ever experienced.
Everything that was said anddiscussed was completely
confidential, a true safe space.
We didn't discuss the groupoutside of it.
So when I was working alongsidethe same ladies who were in my
group, it never felt weird.
(09:57):
We all respected each other andthe journey we were each on.
One of the early steps isfinding a sponsor, someone who
has already completed a stepstudy and is further along in
the recovery.
This person is dedicated tohelping you in your recovery and
getting you through the goodand bad times.
Having a sponsor is animportant part of the process.
(10:18):
Although you can move forwardwithout one, it's one of the
keys to a successful recovery.
While going through a stepstudy, I knew I needed one, but
the thought of asking someoneterrified me.
Our step study leader told usthat the best place to find a
sponsor was at the Friday nightCR small group.
The three major components ofCelebrate Recovery are large
(10:39):
group meetings, small groupmeetings and step studies.
I already attended large groupeach week, mainly because it was
my job to run tech for theservice, but I had never
attended a small group.
Large group is where allattendees meet and sing worship
songs.
Someone also shares theirpersonal testimony or gives a
lesson on one of the 12 steps.
(11:00):
But small group was thismystical place to me?
These groups are gender andissue specific.
I didn't know exactly what theytalked about or what would be
required of me.
It seemed like a very personaland intimate time.
I was so nervous just to go tosmall group and then to be
vulnerable and ask someone to bemy sponsor.
It was a lot, but when I sloweddown and thought about it I
(11:24):
knew who I wanted to be mysponsor.
Only one person's face came tome whenever I thought about this
.
The only problem I barely knewher.
A few weeks after I startedworking at Calarn, a woman
walked into my office.
I should probably mention thatfor the first six months of my
job, my desk was right next to agiant communal office printer.
(11:45):
It was loud and since anycomputer could print to it, it
would run at any time withoutwarning.
It was a challenge to get workdone, and the worst part was
when volunteers would come inand make copies at the printer.
They were doing nothing wrong,yet their constant copying was
really distracting.
I just want to say I'm stillvery salty about this.
(12:06):
This was very upsetting.
I am not a social person tohave people randomly come into
my office.
Beth (12:12):
Yes.
Steph (12:13):
And to have a randomly allowed thing making noise.
I didn't enjoy it, yeah.
Beth (12:19):
Well, you found different office space and moved yourself
into it, as I recall.
Steph (12:24):
I did, which felt like shouldn't have to be my job to
find a place to work that didn'thave a loud printer next to it
but it was Well.
Beth (12:32):
When I started working there now again, I agreed to do
it on an interim basis.
You had an actual office.
No, I had to clean it out.
It was filled to the ceilingwith stuff Filled.
Steph (12:44):
Oh my gosh.
Beth (12:46):
And so then I went to the, to the pastors, and I was like
I think I know why you've beenhaving a hard time finding
somebody for this job.
And they're like really why?
And I was like because you'renot prepared.
You're not ready for someone.
And they're like what do youmean?
I'm like you don't even have aclean office for them, like you
are.
This organization is literallynot ready to fill this position.
So I cleaned out the office andgot it ready.
Steph (13:07):
So you actually spent nine months getting them ready
for the job.
Yes, wow, yes, getting theorganization Don't you wish you
had a volunteer like you.
Beth (13:15):
I so wish I had an army of volunteers like me.
Steph (13:18):
You just need the one You'll clean out the office.
Beth (13:20):
You know what it's true yeah.
Steph (13:21):
You'd get it done.
Beth (13:22):
Yeah.
Steph (13:25):
On one typical day I was sitting at my desk in Inna walks
, this woman who was very happyto see someone in the copy room.
She introduced herself asMelanie, with two E's, and had
more energy and excitement inher voice than I'd ever heard.
She enthusiastically told meshe was a leader with CR and was
very excited to meet and get toknow me.
(13:45):
I politely chatted with her fora few moments.
Once she left the room I triedto process the burst of energy
that was Melanie.
Her friendliness intimidated me, but it also intrigued me.
I assumed I would not see hermuch afterward and moved on to
the next time.
I moved on to finish my work,Of course.
That Friday at CR I was on stagesetting up mics and cables for
(14:08):
band rehearsal when, in walksMelanie, I watched as she sat
behind the drum set.
We got to talking again andthis time she intimidated me
because she's a drummer.
I'd never met a female drummerbefore.
As a kid I wanted to learn toplay the drums and even had a
practice pad, but I never gotinto it.
That night I heard her play.
Her skill, excitement andpassion blew me away.
(14:32):
I continued to see her off andon at CR.
Melanie's face was the one Ikept seeing when I prayed about
who my sponsor would be.
Then one day I went to smallgroup for the first time and
guess who was leading the groupthat I picked that night?
There are five small groups forwomen and I picked the group
for those who have been abused.
I knew nothing about the groupor leadership.
(14:54):
I just knew that I related tothe topic.
Melanie led the groupwonderfully and all my
hesitation and nerves aboutsmall group went away.
I wasn't required to doanything.
I just introduced myself andlistened.
I heard stories I could relateto, as the other women shared
similar feelings and struggles.
At the end, Melanie askedanyone who wanted a sponsor to
(15:16):
stay.
After our meeting, I andanother woman remained.
Melanie talked to us about howto ask somebody to be our
sponsor.
It felt really strange goingthrough the exercise, but I
really wanted her to fill thatrole.
After the other woman left, itwas just Melanie and me.
Then I got the courage to askher if she would be my sponsor
(15:37):
and she said yes.
That was in 2013 and she isstill my sponsor today.
Yes, I referred to her as mysponsor to others.
She's more than a friend andmore than an accountability
partner.
She is someone who will dropanything if I just need to talk.
She is someone who will maketime in her life to let me share
.
She is someone who cares andencourages me to stay on the
(16:01):
road of recovery.
I know I'm heard when I spendtime with her and that's a
powerful feeling for me.
And that is the end of chapter12.
Beth (16:11):
Yes, so at the time that you published the book, melanie
was still your sponsor.
Where does that stand today?
Steph (16:18):
Melanie is no longer my sponsor, but she was my sponsor
from 2013 to 2020.
Yeah, and do you have a sponsortoday?
I do not have a sponsor anymore.
Melanie was actually my sponsor, probably a little bit longer
than I really needed a sponsor,and it's always interesting to
(16:39):
think back through life and tolook through.
Just remember things that havehappened, because where I stand
today with all of this is a verydifferent place than I stood
when it happened.
So I'm never longer involvedwith celebrate recovery.
I don't know enough aboutcelebrate recovery now to even
(17:02):
recommend it as what I wentthrough.
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know, I don't know, I
don't know, I don't know, Idon't know, I don't know.
I went through.
I don't know, I don't knowanything about it now, honestly,
I will say something that I wasalways curious about with
Celebrate Recovery is theirstance on the LGBTQ plus
(17:24):
community, and I did not know Iwas part of that community.
I was just an ally at the time,but I always believed in
acceptance of all people andeverybody was God's creation and
that being LGBTQ plus was not asin.
(17:45):
I've always believed that, andso I did want to know what was
their stance on LGBTQ plus whenI was part of it and I asked a
couple people and I did not geta satisfying response.
I never got a full response.
You know, if you are trulyaccepting, your answer is we
(18:07):
accept and love everyone and we,just like Jesus does, and we
want them to all be themselvesand come to this program.
And that is not exactly thewording that I got.
I can't even remember thewording it was enough where they
weren't like we don't acceptLGBTQ plus.
It wasn't that blatant but itwasn't like we accept them.
(18:32):
Why wouldn't we accept them?
We accept straight people.
Why wouldn't we accept gaypeople?
Like you know, it wasn'tsomething that was so obvious.
And I got a feeling that theywould accept LGBTQ plus people
into the program because they'llaccept anybody, but they
believed that God would changethem in the program to not to
(18:55):
realize that they were sinningin their life, which it was
never said that way.
But that was the feeling I hadand it was hard for me because,
you know, as an ally, I didn'tlike that, that concept.
But again, I didn't know thatfor sure and I wasn't going
through that at the time and Ireally did need celebrate
(19:16):
recovery for what I was goingthrough, and so I did look past
that and stopped digging into itand took what I needed from the
program.
Whether that is still the case,whether that was that, is just
my observation at the time.
Whether that's truly what washappening, I don't know.
I don't know for sure.
I was not a leader in theprogram.
(19:37):
I was not privy to like thelike behind the scenes
conversations, and whether thathas changed to a stance one way
or the other, I don't knoweither.
So as we stand today, I couldnot recommend celebrate recovery
Me recommend.
I would recommend look into it.
It was a great program when Iwas in it.
(19:58):
Step study was a great program.
Also, I've never been part ofAlcoholics Anonymous, but I've
heard a lot of good things aboutthat for recovering from
alcohol specifically, but it hasa lot of the same principles.
So that's where I stand withcelebrate recovery.
Today, I still am very thankfulfor the time I had within
(20:20):
celebrate recovery and theprocess, and I'm so thankful for
my sponsor.
Melanie was exactly the personI needed to help me through this
journey.
She actually helped me writesome of this book.
She's an editor herself.
She wasn't the editor for mybook, but she definitely read
all the versions of it, gave meher two cents, she gave me
permission to use her name,obviously, and she was
(20:44):
definitely a huge part of mylife for seven years.
But there came a time where Ididn't feel like I really needed
a sponsor anymore and we kindof had changed as people.
We had changed in differentways and when I think that's
part of the process.
Beth (21:01):
I don't think it's like, oh, this person will be your
sponsor for the rest of yourlife, like that would be such a
commitment.
I can't even imagine peopleagreeing to it.
Steph (21:09):
So I think, I think it's a rare cases when your sponsor
is longer than you know, even acouple years, like it was pretty
rare to have a sponsor for thatlong, yeah, and but she was
exactly what I needed for thattime and she is no longer my
sponsor.
We kind of have different pathsin life and I haven't spoken
with her in a few years now.
I wish her well in life and shehas done so many good things
(21:34):
for me and I think that's agreat for me and you know, I
just wish her well in everything.
Beth (21:40):
It's okay for something to be right for a season and not
be right for you forever, youknow, and so we can.
We can appreciate what we gotout of it and continue to be
grateful for what we got out ofit without it.
Steph (21:55):
Well, I think it's like the Marie Kondo what is that?
Where you hug your thing andthen you let it free.
Yeah, you know, and I think wecan.
We appreciated Kalarne for thetime we had it in our life and
you know, we've mentioned it.
Kalarne is no longer a fullyaccepting congregation, no
longer part of the UnitedMethodist Church, and that's not
(22:18):
something we can be a part ofanymore.
And we believe in accepting allpeople and believing that all
people are created in God'simage, and so we're no longer a
part of that congregation.
But that does not take awayfrom the good that we got from
it and the time we spent there,and it doesn't erase all of that
(22:40):
.
Right, it was good while it wasgood.
You know, beth, when we were inCelebrate Recovery I can't
remember did you have a sponsor?
Beth (22:47):
I never got a sponsor.
Steph (22:48):
I never did that Was that hard for you Because you like
to follow the rules.
Beth (22:51):
It was hard because I exactly for that reason, because
I like to follow the rules andI wanted to know that, oh, I had
really done everything right.
But it was hard, hard, hard forme to get there on Friday
nights.
You know that season of my life.
My kids were in fifth grade andthird grade and I just really
wanted family time and Fridaynights were the right time for
that.
So I really had a hard timemaking it to large group, which
(23:14):
meant that then I wasn'tavailable for small group, which
meant that I didn't really meetpeople who could be my sponsor.
So there's a step where youhave to share your fearless
moral inventory with yoursponsor, and so I shared mine
with Lori.
I went over to her house.
She made time to meet with meso I could share it with her.
So I was able to do my stepswithout a sponsor.
Steph (23:36):
Do you think not having a sponsor hindered you in any way
during the process?
Beth (23:42):
I don't think so, and Lori and I actually talked about it
at the time.
I had come into it havingalready done a lot of work, you
know, and so it was like maybeshe said it because she knew I
wasn't, I wasn't going to find asponsor, but she was like I
really think, with the workyou've already done, it's going
to be okay.
Steph (24:00):
I was like, okay, thanks, and maybe she knew like I
needed permission to not followthe rules which is interesting,
because you're not supposed toreally tell people what to do or
think in self recovery.
So she knew you.
Just you needed that.
I needed that permission.
Yeah, or you wouldn't be ableto continue.
I'm in your brain.
Did you have any accountabilitypartners?
Beth (24:18):
No, I'm just the group, just the group that we did the
study with.
Steph (24:23):
So if somebody wasn't in celebrate recovery, obviously
we're not in it anymore.
Do you think there's a way,outside of a program like this,
where you could have someonelike a sponsor and someone like
an accountability partner?
Like, how would you put that inreal world?
Beth (24:35):
terms, an accountability partner can be someone who you,
who you are close to, who cancall you on your stuff.
So, like I'm part of um, I'mpart of a clergy covenant group.
There's it's me and three otherclergy women and we have
intentionally, like built thisrelationship where it's like,
(24:58):
okay, I'm going to tell you guyswhat I'm struggling with and I
give you permission to check inwith me about it.
So I think you can build anaccountability.
Uh, yeah, I think you can buildaccountability into, even into
a friendship.
It just has to be the rightfriendship, right, cause you
don't want you don't wantsomebody who is not in touch
with their own stuff always justcalling you on your stuff.
(25:21):
Like that's not healthy, Um, butthe idea of a sponsor I'm I'm
struggling a little bit withthat, like how that works
outside of this particularcontext Cause the sponsor is not
a therapist.
For one thing, I think I mean,you're the one who had a sponsor
, you wouldn't have better mebut I think a sponsor is maybe
more available than a therapist,right, cause you could call and
(25:43):
say, hey, I just need, like Ineed a 10 minute phone call, a
five minute phone call, becauseI'm struggling today.
You don't get really do thatwith a therapist.
Steph (25:52):
Yeah, I mean within the real world, I would think I
would say, uh, the equivalent,and it's not equal.
Equal, I would say, is a is atherapist.
Yeah, Um it's definitelydifferent, which is why I had a
therapist and a sponsor and acouple of partners like I had
all of those Um.
So I would say, though, withoutside of a program, like and
(26:14):
you have sponsors within,alcoholics synonymous as well Um
, again, I don't want to speakto it and never being in it, but
from my observation it'ssomebody that is just like CR.
It's somebody that's longerbeen in the program, longer and
is farther along in the recoverythan you.
And so when you need, like youknow if you're struggling with
this, you know alcohol andyou're about to take a drink,
(26:37):
your sponsor can help like, talkyou through that and, you know,
help you with you.
And a lot of times and we talkedabout this in the um suicide
episode actually um, where it'sa split second decision, when
people you know die by suicide,it's it's a split second thing,
and so that's, I think theconcept with a sponsor is when
(26:58):
you're having those thoughts andfeelings not necessarily
suicide, but when you're youknow about to take a drink, or
when you're able, when you'reabout to do whatever your hurt,
habit or hang up is that you cancall that sponsor and they
already kind of have context towhere you are and what you're
struggling with, and they'rejust there to listen and maybe
(27:18):
to come sit with you, um, whichis different than a therapist,
for sure, like a therapist isnot going to have be able to
come and sit with you, um, so itis a different thing but, um,
and also, I think, a sponsor.
Beth (27:30):
You want to find somebody who's had a similar recovery
journey, exactly because,because, then you know they're
going to approach this withoutshaming you and, um, they will
have developed, hopefully,healthy coping mechanisms to
help you get through that moment.
Steph (27:44):
Yeah.
So I mean, maybe it's notnecessarily I mean there and
there are a lot of otherrecovery programs out there for
you know, different substancesand things like that, but
there's a lot of groups outthere too.
So maybe finding someone thatis with you on your journey is
finding a group out there thathas like-minded people that have
(28:05):
gone through that same kind ofjourney.
So you know, a sponsor doesn'tnecessarily have to be for, like
hard drugs or something likethat.
It could just be someone that issupportive and it has gone
through similar things as you.
So, yeah, any kind of group thatyou can find like-minded people
or people that are kind of inthat same journey space, I think
, is where you can have that,and I think part of part of it
(28:27):
is having that conversation.
The same thing with theaccountability partner is it can
be a friend, but I think you'dhave to have that conversation
of like I need you to ask meabout my stuff, I need you to
call me on my stuff and I wantto, you know, do that for you.
Is that something you want tobe a part of?
And finding and asking theright people too, like you said,
is like if they're in a healthyheadspace, you know what that
(28:50):
looks like.
So I think there's so manydifferent ways that you can work
on your mental health withinrecovery programs, outside of
recovery programs.
I think the first place is justto recognize that you want to
get support and help and kind ofput together a list of places
that you can find that and getsupport and things like that.
Beth (29:11):
Yeah, and the idea of the group and the assist, the value
of being in a group like I.
I know folks who are goingthrough grief share, which is,
you know, when you haveexperienced a loss, but you kind
of meet as a group and it's asupport group.
And also I know folks who haveto speak very highly about
divorce care, like I haven'tpersonally experienced either of
(29:31):
those but I've heard goodthings about them and so if
those were issues I was goingthrough, I would.
I would look into those groupsfor sure, because there's so
much value in in community.
Steph (29:45):
At the Indie Beach episode.
We end the questions forreflection.
These are questions that basedon today's show that Beth will
read and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself, or you can find awritten in the description.
Beth (29:55):
Number one what are your heart's habits or hangups?
Number two who are the peoplein your life who keep you
accountable?
Have you been intentional aboutdeveloping accountability
partners?
Number three is there somethingyou found beneficial in the
past that you wouldn'tparticipate in now?
And number four reflect onsomeone who was in your life for
(30:18):
only a season.
What was the impact that personmade on you?
Why did that season end?
Steph (30:26):
This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Steph (00:06):
Where we share personal experiences so we can learn from
each other.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
I've been in recovery for 17years and am the author of
Discovering my Scars, my memoirabout what's done in the
darkness eventually comes tolight.
Beth (00:17):
I'm a lawyer turned pastor who's all about self-awareness
and emotional health, because Iknow what it's like to have
neither of those things.
Steph (00:24):
Beth and I have been friends for years, have gone
through a recovery programtogether, and when I wanted to
start a podcast, she was theonly name that came to mind as
co-host.
Beth (00:31):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot
from sharing personalexperiences with Steph over the
years.
We value honest conversationsand we hope you do too.
On today's show we're going tohave an honest conversation
titled Discovering my ScarsChapter 12.
Then we'll close the show withquestions for reflection.
Steph (00:47):
We'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in
your own life.
All right, Beth, you ready toget into?
Beth (00:52):
Chapter 12?
Yeah, so we're going to playthe audio book and then so
you'll hear Steph's voice.
But it's a recording of Steph'svoice, so we have Steph live
and recorded and then we'llpause it from time to time and
talk about what Steph isrevealing in the book.
Steph (01:12):
Chapter 12, recovery 2.0.
I had seven years off and on oftherapy with Dr Jill.
When I moved back toTallahassee I started to feel a
pull like I needed more.
I felt like I needed Christiancommunity recovery.
So I sought it from CelebrateRecovery CR, a Christ-centered
12-step recovery program.
It's an internationalfellowship but it has a very
(01:34):
strong following at Calarn.
Back in high school I producedvideos for my church to show on
Sunday mornings.
The videos were typically aboutdifferent church ministries and
upcoming events.
In 2003, the church wanted meto produce a video about a new
program.
They were starting the verysame Celebrate Recovery that I
was now planning to attend.
(01:54):
In the video, three peopleshared their many testimonies.
I can still clearly rememberwhere I filmed and what they
talked about.
It was the first time I canremember people in church
talking so openly and honestlyabout life struggles such as
mental illness, alcoholism andsuicide attempts.
When I started working atCalarn, some of the ministry
(02:15):
leaders set up lunches with me.
One of those meetings was withLori, a CR leader.
During lunch I asked questionsabout CR and what it offered.
Lori enthusiastically sharedinformation about it and
mentioned she had tried to starta staff lady's step study but
no one had been interested.
I jumped in and said we shouldtry to start one again.
Hey, I remember that.
(02:37):
You remember wanting to be in astep study.
Beth (02:41):
I remember you and a co-worker who, because we were
working, we were both working atthis place at Calarn, at the
church, and you came into myoffice and were like hey, we
want to start a step study.
Steph (02:52):
I was like, okay, no, you said yes because you're an easy
yes, I'm an easy yes.
Little did I know how easy youwere at.
You would say yes to anything.
I guess you were not part ofthe staff when she originally
tried to start a step study,because you would have been an
easy yes back then.
Beth (03:13):
Yeah, that's probably right, because I wasn't on staff
all that long.
Actually start to finish, itwas only nine months.
Steph (03:19):
I was only over there in a temporary capacity and you
weren't even still on staff atthe end of the step, study right
, but you continued it.
Beth (03:26):
Yeah, I wanted to finish.
Steph (03:28):
Had you known about step studies?
What was your history?
As we saw, my history was I hadmade a video when Celebrate
Recovery first came to Calarnand was really just intrigued by
these stories of being sohonest in church, and I always
was like wanted to do it but thetiming wasn't right.
So what was your history with?
Beth (03:51):
Celebrate Recovery.
It was something that I knewthat we offered on Friday nights
, but it was not something thatI had been a part of, but I had
been in therapy.
I had gone through a periodwhere I was in weekly therapy
working on my anger issues, andthen I was.
I was not still going weekly atthis point, I was going on an
(04:11):
as needed basis but but I knewthat I had hurt habits and
hangups that I needed to work onand I was also interested in
like building community andbeing part of the community,
which is the thing about thestep study that appealed to me.
And I also want to remember tosay that Lori, who you just
mentioned in the book, she wasour guest on episode 14.
Steph (04:32):
Yes, that was a while ago Because we wanted to have her
on, like, talking aboutCelebrate Recovery, which we did
so link to in the descriptionof that episode where we talked
more about this program that wewere part of years ago.
Now it's been.
Beth (04:45):
And I also understood like a general idea of what the 12
steps were.
I mean, we kind of say this inthe intro but like I really am
into self awareness I alwayshave been, and especially since
I did go through that, that timeperiod when my kids were
toddlers, when I really realizedI needed weekly therapy, like
that was.
I was like, oh, the selfawareness is changing everything
, you know, making everythingbetter, Everything clearer.
(05:07):
So I've just figured this wasanother opportunity for that.
Steph (05:12):
And did you know specifically what you wanted to
work on like within the program,or did you just just self
awareness?
Beth (05:20):
just self awareness I mean although I will say I still
really value the confidentialityaround this not for myself, but
I don't want to violate anyoneelse's, so I want to be careful
how I say this but one personsaid that they were working on
self sufficiency and that was alight bulb moment for me.
That that is.
That is a habit that I defaultto when I'm not my healthiest,
(05:43):
and so that became a focus forme in the course of our step
study.
I was like, oh yeah, I amrecovering from self sufficiency
and that presents in a lot ofways.
It gets in the way inrelationships, it gets in the
way of my in my spiritual walk.
I get really, even now I'mgrateful to have had that
opportunity to have worked on it.
Steph (06:02):
Yeah, and as I'm thinking through, is there's not like
one thing specifically that Ican remember was my thing that I
was working on.
I knew my coping with selfinjury was something that I
definitely wanted to recoverfrom, but I don't know if that's
what I said, like if that's theway I phrased it.
Beth (06:26):
Because that really was you didn't share that right away
?
I don't think.
Steph (06:28):
Well, and that really wasn't my issue, it was learning
why.
That was my coping mechanismthat I needed to work on.
And the thing is I really don'tremember a lot of what was said
in the step studies, even whatI said or what other people said
, because part of Because it wasso long ago it will.
Now I'm realizing, yeah, I dohave all the documents like I
(06:49):
can look them up, like myinventory and stuff I could like
look back, but it's becausethere's such a celebrate
recovery is so much it's almostmysterious in a way because of
the confidentiality element toit and how big of a part of
celebrate recovery and not in abad way where, like we're
(07:10):
covering things up.
It's confidential in a waywhere you can say anything and
that doesn't get out Like youcould have a coworker all of us
were coworkers, coworkers inyour group and they're never
gonna say anything outside ofgroup about what you said
because it's very confidential.
So I think I do remember likeglances of what people said, but
it's not my stuff so I wouldnever like bring it up because
(07:33):
it's not even now, even thoughit's been 10 years, that's still
like it was under this blanketof like confidentiality.
It's like no, like I would, no,it's almost like we signed an
NDA but we didn't.
But we did.
I guess we did with God.
Beth (07:49):
Well, and it's okay for us to say like we were in the
study together, because we'reboth okay saying that, but and
Lori said it, and Lori said itwhen she was in episode, but we
wouldn't talk about who else wasin it.
No, of course that would betheir information.
Steph (07:59):
Exactly.
We would only let somebody sayit if and I do think it was
known who was in that groupbecause we met during it was a
more staff thing and so it waskinda it was known, but again we
would never like publicly saybecause?
Well, first of all, why?
Beth (08:15):
it doesn't matter, it wouldn't be relevant to anything
, but there was and it was okayfor it to be known among other
staff members because it wassupported.
It was like, yeah, it was.
Yeah, we think this is a goodthing that you are doing this
and so-.
Steph (08:30):
And we wanted others to be encouraged to possibly join
one or and we actually did asecond one.
You weren't there anymore, butI was part of a second one and
we had a couple more people thatjoined, and that's really what
it is is you choose to tellothers if you want, and we all
kind of agreed that the peopleon staff could know about it.
(08:51):
I mean, obviously we didn'ttalk about what we said in it,
but we wanted people to knowthat, yeah, I have her habits
and hang ups and I'm part ofthis and I'm not ashamed to say
that I'm in this and I thinkeveryone can benefit from
sharing their stuff in a safeenvironment.
Like, I still will say that.
Beth (09:09):
Yeah, I agree.
Okay, let's go back to the book.
Steph (09:13):
A step study is an intense nine months of going
through the 12 steps of CR.
It's similar to alcoholicsynonymous steps, but generic,
so participants can relate toany hurts, habits or hang ups,
not just alcohol.
Okay, we talked about CRrecently and we could not
remember how long it took andit's nine months.
Beth (09:33):
It takes nine months.
Steph (09:36):
Once we advertised the group, we found a few staff
ladies who were interested injoining us.
This group was nothing like Ihad ever experienced.
Everything that was said anddiscussed was completely
confidential, a true safe space.
We didn't discuss the groupoutside of it.
So when I was working alongsidethe same ladies who were in my
group, it never felt weird.
(09:57):
We all respected each other andthe journey we were each on.
One of the early steps isfinding a sponsor, someone who
has already completed a stepstudy and is further along in
the recovery.
This person is dedicated tohelping you in your recovery and
getting you through the goodand bad times.
Having a sponsor is animportant part of the process.
(10:18):
Although you can move forwardwithout one, it's one of the
keys to a successful recovery.
While going through a stepstudy, I knew I needed one, but
the thought of asking someoneterrified me.
Our step study leader told usthat the best place to find a
sponsor was at the Friday nightCR small group.
The three major components ofCelebrate Recovery are large
(10:39):
group meetings, small groupmeetings and step studies.
I already attended large groupeach week, mainly because it was
my job to run tech for theservice, but I had never
attended a small group.
Large group is where allattendees meet and sing worship
songs.
Someone also shares theirpersonal testimony or gives a
lesson on one of the 12 steps.
(11:00):
But small group was thismystical place to me?
These groups are gender andissue specific.
I didn't know exactly what theytalked about or what would be
required of me.
It seemed like a very personaland intimate time.
I was so nervous just to go tosmall group and then to be
vulnerable and ask someone to bemy sponsor.
It was a lot, but when I sloweddown and thought about it I
(11:24):
knew who I wanted to be mysponsor.
Only one person's face came tome whenever I thought about this
.
The only problem I barely knewher.
A few weeks after I startedworking at Calarn, a woman
walked into my office.
I should probably mention thatfor the first six months of my
job, my desk was right next to agiant communal office printer.
(11:45):
It was loud and since anycomputer could print to it, it
would run at any time withoutwarning.
It was a challenge to get workdone, and the worst part was
when volunteers would come inand make copies at the printer.
They were doing nothing wrong,yet their constant copying was
really distracting.
I just want to say I'm stillvery salty about this.
(12:06):
This was very upsetting.
I am not a social person tohave people randomly come into
my office.
Beth (12:12):
Yes.
Steph (12:13):
And to have a randomly allowed thing making noise.
I didn't enjoy it, yeah.
Beth (12:19):
Well, you found different office space and moved yourself
into it, as I recall.
Steph (12:24):
I did, which felt like shouldn't have to be my job to
find a place to work that didn'thave a loud printer next to it
but it was Well.
Beth (12:32):
When I started working there now again, I agreed to do
it on an interim basis.
You had an actual office.
No, I had to clean it out.
It was filled to the ceilingwith stuff Filled.
Steph (12:44):
Oh my gosh.
Beth (12:46):
And so then I went to the, to the pastors, and I was like
I think I know why you've beenhaving a hard time finding
somebody for this job.
And they're like really why?
And I was like because you'renot prepared.
You're not ready for someone.
And they're like what do youmean?
I'm like you don't even have aclean office for them, like you
are.
This organization is literallynot ready to fill this position.
So I cleaned out the office andgot it ready.
Steph (13:07):
So you actually spent nine months getting them ready
for the job.
Yes, wow, yes, getting theorganization Don't you wish you
had a volunteer like you.
Beth (13:15):
I so wish I had an army of volunteers like me.
Steph (13:18):
You just need the one You'll clean out the office.
Beth (13:20):
You know what it's true yeah.
Steph (13:21):
You'd get it done.
Beth (13:22):
Yeah.
Steph (13:25):
On one typical day I was sitting at my desk in Inna walks
, this woman who was very happyto see someone in the copy room.
She introduced herself asMelanie, with two E's, and had
more energy and excitement inher voice than I'd ever heard.
She enthusiastically told meshe was a leader with CR and was
very excited to meet and get toknow me.
(13:45):
I politely chatted with her fora few moments.
Once she left the room I triedto process the burst of energy
that was Melanie.
Her friendliness intimidated me, but it also intrigued me.
I assumed I would not see hermuch afterward and moved on to
the next time.
I moved on to finish my work,Of course.
That Friday at CR I was on stagesetting up mics and cables for
(14:08):
band rehearsal when, in walksMelanie, I watched as she sat
behind the drum set.
We got to talking again andthis time she intimidated me
because she's a drummer.
I'd never met a female drummerbefore.
As a kid I wanted to learn toplay the drums and even had a
practice pad, but I never gotinto it.
That night I heard her play.
Her skill, excitement andpassion blew me away.
(14:32):
I continued to see her off andon at CR.
Melanie's face was the one Ikept seeing when I prayed about
who my sponsor would be.
Then one day I went to smallgroup for the first time and
guess who was leading the groupthat I picked that night?
There are five small groups forwomen and I picked the group
for those who have been abused.
I knew nothing about the groupor leadership.
(14:54):
I just knew that I related tothe topic.
Melanie led the groupwonderfully and all my
hesitation and nerves aboutsmall group went away.
I wasn't required to doanything.
I just introduced myself andlistened.
I heard stories I could relateto, as the other women shared
similar feelings and struggles.
At the end, Melanie askedanyone who wanted a sponsor to
(15:16):
stay.
After our meeting, I andanother woman remained.
Melanie talked to us about howto ask somebody to be our
sponsor.
It felt really strange goingthrough the exercise, but I
really wanted her to fill thatrole.
After the other woman left, itwas just Melanie and me.
Then I got the courage to askher if she would be my sponsor
(15:37):
and she said yes.
That was in 2013 and she isstill my sponsor today.
Yes, I referred to her as mysponsor to others.
She's more than a friend andmore than an accountability
partner.
She is someone who will dropanything if I just need to talk.
She is someone who will maketime in her life to let me share
.
She is someone who cares andencourages me to stay on the
(16:01):
road of recovery.
I know I'm heard when I spendtime with her and that's a
powerful feeling for me.
And that is the end of chapter12.
Beth (16:11):
Yes, so at the time that you published the book, melanie
was still your sponsor.
Where does that stand today?
Steph (16:18):
Melanie is no longer my sponsor, but she was my sponsor
from 2013 to 2020.
Yeah, and do you have a sponsortoday?
I do not have a sponsor anymore.
Melanie was actually my sponsor, probably a little bit longer
than I really needed a sponsor,and it's always interesting to
(16:39):
think back through life and tolook through.
Just remember things that havehappened, because where I stand
today with all of this is a verydifferent place than I stood
when it happened.
So I'm never longer involvedwith celebrate recovery.
I don't know enough aboutcelebrate recovery now to even
(17:02):
recommend it as what I wentthrough.
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know, I don't know, I
don't know, I don't know, Idon't know, I don't know.
I went through.
I don't know, I don't knowanything about it now, honestly,
I will say something that I wasalways curious about with
Celebrate Recovery is theirstance on the LGBTQ plus
(17:24):
community, and I did not know Iwas part of that community.
I was just an ally at the time,but I always believed in
acceptance of all people andeverybody was God's creation and
that being LGBTQ plus was not asin.
(17:45):
I've always believed that, andso I did want to know what was
their stance on LGBTQ plus whenI was part of it and I asked a
couple people and I did not geta satisfying response.
I never got a full response.
You know, if you are trulyaccepting, your answer is we
(18:07):
accept and love everyone and we,just like Jesus does, and we
want them to all be themselvesand come to this program.
And that is not exactly thewording that I got.
I can't even remember thewording it was enough where they
weren't like we don't acceptLGBTQ plus.
It wasn't that blatant but itwasn't like we accept them.
(18:32):
Why wouldn't we accept them?
We accept straight people.
Why wouldn't we accept gaypeople?
Like you know, it wasn'tsomething that was so obvious.
And I got a feeling that theywould accept LGBTQ plus people
into the program because they'llaccept anybody, but they
believed that God would changethem in the program to not to
(18:55):
realize that they were sinningin their life, which it was
never said that way.
But that was the feeling I hadand it was hard for me because,
you know, as an ally, I didn'tlike that, that concept.
But again, I didn't know thatfor sure and I wasn't going
through that at the time and Ireally did need celebrate
(19:16):
recovery for what I was goingthrough, and so I did look past
that and stopped digging into itand took what I needed from the
program.
Whether that is still the case,whether that was that, is just
my observation at the time.
Whether that's truly what washappening, I don't know.
I don't know for sure.
I was not a leader in theprogram.
(19:37):
I was not privy to like thelike behind the scenes
conversations, and whether thathas changed to a stance one way
or the other, I don't knoweither.
So as we stand today, I couldnot recommend celebrate recovery
Me recommend.
I would recommend look into it.
It was a great program when Iwas in it.
(19:58):
Step study was a great program.
Also, I've never been part ofAlcoholics Anonymous, but I've
heard a lot of good things aboutthat for recovering from
alcohol specifically, but it hasa lot of the same principles.
So that's where I stand withcelebrate recovery.
Today, I still am very thankfulfor the time I had within
(20:20):
celebrate recovery and theprocess, and I'm so thankful for
my sponsor.
Melanie was exactly the personI needed to help me through this
journey.
She actually helped me writesome of this book.
She's an editor herself.
She wasn't the editor for mybook, but she definitely read
all the versions of it, gave meher two cents, she gave me
permission to use her name,obviously, and she was
(20:44):
definitely a huge part of mylife for seven years.
But there came a time where Ididn't feel like I really needed
a sponsor anymore and we kindof had changed as people.
We had changed in differentways and when I think that's
part of the process.
Beth (21:01):
I don't think it's like, oh, this person will be your
sponsor for the rest of yourlife, like that would be such a
commitment.
I can't even imagine peopleagreeing to it.
Steph (21:09):
So I think, I think it's a rare cases when your sponsor
is longer than you know, even acouple years, like it was pretty
rare to have a sponsor for thatlong, yeah, and but she was
exactly what I needed for thattime and she is no longer my
sponsor.
We kind of have different pathsin life and I haven't spoken
with her in a few years now.
I wish her well in life and shehas done so many good things
(21:34):
for me and I think that's agreat for me and you know, I
just wish her well in everything.
Beth (21:40):
It's okay for something to be right for a season and not
be right for you forever, youknow, and so we can.
We can appreciate what we gotout of it and continue to be
grateful for what we got out ofit without it.
Steph (21:55):
Well, I think it's like the Marie Kondo what is that?
Where you hug your thing andthen you let it free.
Yeah, you know, and I think wecan.
We appreciated Kalarne for thetime we had it in our life and
you know, we've mentioned it.
Kalarne is no longer a fullyaccepting congregation, no
longer part of the UnitedMethodist Church, and that's not
(22:18):
something we can be a part ofanymore.
And we believe in accepting allpeople and believing that all
people are created in God'simage, and so we're no longer a
part of that congregation.
But that does not take awayfrom the good that we got from
it and the time we spent there,and it doesn't erase all of that
(22:40):
.
Right, it was good while it wasgood.
You know, beth, when we were inCelebrate Recovery I can't
remember did you have a sponsor?
Beth (22:47):
I never got a sponsor.
Steph (22:48):
I never did that Was that hard for you Because you like
to follow the rules.
Beth (22:51):
It was hard because I exactly for that reason, because
I like to follow the rules andI wanted to know that, oh, I had
really done everything right.
But it was hard, hard, hard forme to get there on Friday
nights.
You know that season of my life.
My kids were in fifth grade andthird grade and I just really
wanted family time and Fridaynights were the right time for
that.
So I really had a hard timemaking it to large group, which
(23:14):
meant that then I wasn'tavailable for small group, which
meant that I didn't really meetpeople who could be my sponsor.
So there's a step where youhave to share your fearless
moral inventory with yoursponsor, and so I shared mine
with Lori.
I went over to her house.
She made time to meet with meso I could share it with her.
So I was able to do my stepswithout a sponsor.
Steph (23:36):
Do you think not having a sponsor hindered you in any way
during the process?
Beth (23:42):
I don't think so, and Lori and I actually talked about it
at the time.
I had come into it havingalready done a lot of work, you
know, and so it was like maybeshe said it because she knew I
wasn't, I wasn't going to find asponsor, but she was like I
really think, with the workyou've already done, it's going
to be okay.
Steph (24:00):
I was like, okay, thanks, and maybe she knew like I
needed permission to not followthe rules which is interesting,
because you're not supposed toreally tell people what to do or
think in self recovery.
So she knew you.
Just you needed that.
I needed that permission.
Yeah, or you wouldn't be ableto continue.
I'm in your brain.
Did you have any accountabilitypartners?
Beth (24:18):
No, I'm just the group, just the group that we did the
study with.
Steph (24:23):
So if somebody wasn't in celebrate recovery, obviously
we're not in it anymore.
Do you think there's a way,outside of a program like this,
where you could have someonelike a sponsor and someone like
an accountability partner?
Like, how would you put that inreal world?
Beth (24:35):
terms, an accountability partner can be someone who you,
who you are close to, who cancall you on your stuff.
So, like I'm part of um, I'mpart of a clergy covenant group.
There's it's me and three otherclergy women and we have
intentionally, like built thisrelationship where it's like,
(24:58):
okay, I'm going to tell you guyswhat I'm struggling with and I
give you permission to check inwith me about it.
So I think you can build anaccountability.
Uh, yeah, I think you can buildaccountability into, even into
a friendship.
It just has to be the rightfriendship, right, cause you
don't want you don't wantsomebody who is not in touch
with their own stuff always justcalling you on your stuff.
(25:21):
Like that's not healthy, Um, butthe idea of a sponsor I'm I'm
struggling a little bit withthat, like how that works
outside of this particularcontext Cause the sponsor is not
a therapist.
For one thing, I think I mean,you're the one who had a sponsor
, you wouldn't have better mebut I think a sponsor is maybe
more available than a therapist,right, cause you could call and
(25:43):
say, hey, I just need, like Ineed a 10 minute phone call, a
five minute phone call, becauseI'm struggling today.
You don't get really do thatwith a therapist.
Steph (25:52):
Yeah, I mean within the real world, I would think I
would say, uh, the equivalent,and it's not equal.
Equal, I would say, is a is atherapist.
Yeah, Um it's definitelydifferent, which is why I had a
therapist and a sponsor and acouple of partners like I had
all of those Um.
So I would say, though, withoutside of a program, like and
(26:14):
you have sponsors within,alcoholics synonymous as well Um
, again, I don't want to speakto it and never being in it, but
from my observation it'ssomebody that is just like CR.
It's somebody that's longerbeen in the program, longer and
is farther along in the recoverythan you.
And so when you need, like youknow if you're struggling with
this, you know alcohol andyou're about to take a drink,
(26:37):
your sponsor can help like, talkyou through that and, you know,
help you with you.
And a lot of times and we talkedabout this in the um suicide
episode actually um, where it'sa split second decision, when
people you know die by suicide,it's it's a split second thing,
and so that's, I think theconcept with a sponsor is when
(26:58):
you're having those thoughts andfeelings not necessarily
suicide, but when you're youknow about to take a drink, or
when you're able, when you'reabout to do whatever your hurt,
habit or hang up is that you cancall that sponsor and they
already kind of have context towhere you are and what you're
struggling with, and they'rejust there to listen and maybe
(27:18):
to come sit with you, um, whichis different than a therapist,
for sure, like a therapist isnot going to have be able to
come and sit with you, um, so itis a different thing but, um,
and also, I think, a sponsor.
Beth (27:30):
You want to find somebody who's had a similar recovery
journey, exactly because,because, then you know they're
going to approach this withoutshaming you and, um, they will
have developed, hopefully,healthy coping mechanisms to
help you get through that moment.
Steph (27:44):
Yeah.
So I mean, maybe it's notnecessarily I mean there and
there are a lot of otherrecovery programs out there for
you know, different substancesand things like that, but
there's a lot of groups outthere too.
So maybe finding someone thatis with you on your journey is
finding a group out there thathas like-minded people that have
(28:05):
gone through that same kind ofjourney.
So you know, a sponsor doesn'tnecessarily have to be for, like
hard drugs or something likethat.
It could just be someone that issupportive and it has gone
through similar things as you.
So, yeah, any kind of group thatyou can find like-minded people
or people that are kind of inthat same journey space, I think
, is where you can have that,and I think part of part of it
(28:27):
is having that conversation.
The same thing with theaccountability partner is it can
be a friend, but I think you'dhave to have that conversation
of like I need you to ask meabout my stuff, I need you to
call me on my stuff and I wantto, you know, do that for you.
Is that something you want tobe a part of?
And finding and asking theright people too, like you said,
is like if they're in a healthyheadspace, you know what that
(28:50):
looks like.
So I think there's so manydifferent ways that you can work
on your mental health withinrecovery programs, outside of
recovery programs.
I think the first place is justto recognize that you want to
get support and help and kind ofput together a list of places
that you can find that and getsupport and things like that.
Beth (29:11):
Yeah, and the idea of the group and the assist, the value
of being in a group like I.
I know folks who are goingthrough grief share, which is,
you know, when you haveexperienced a loss, but you kind
of meet as a group and it's asupport group.
And also I know folks who haveto speak very highly about
divorce care, like I haven'tpersonally experienced either of
(29:31):
those but I've heard goodthings about them and so if
those were issues I was goingthrough, I would.
I would look into those groupsfor sure, because there's so
much value in in community.
Steph (29:45):
At the Indie Beach episode.
We end the questions forreflection.
These are questions that basedon today's show that Beth will
read and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself, or you can find awritten in the description.
Beth (29:55):
Number one what are your heart's habits or hangups?
Number two who are the peoplein your life who keep you
accountable?
Have you been intentional aboutdeveloping accountability
partners?
Number three is there somethingyou found beneficial in the
past that you wouldn'tparticipate in now?
And number four reflect onsomeone who was in your life for
(30:18):
only a season.
What was the impact that personmade on you?
Why did that season end?
Steph (30:26):
This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
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