March 8, 2024 • 41 mins
Although we sometimes say that people can’t or don’t change, the truth is, life is all about change. Hopefully, we are always growing and learning so that we can become a better version of ourselves. Beth was recently going through a box of memories and found a bumper sticker declaring her to be a proud member of an organization she would never support in any form these days! She and Steph reflect on all sorts of (mostly) positive changes from the last several years.
Use these Questions for Reflection to apply this episode to your own life:
(1) Do you believe people can change? Have you changed?
(2) Are you the same person you were in high school? Would the high school version of yourself recognize you today?
(3) If you could forecast the next five or ten years of your life, what changes do you think you might see?
(4) Do people hold us back from growing up?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth (00:03):
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast, where we
share personal experiences, sowe can learn from each other.
Our mission is to talk aboutthings you might relate to but
that you don't hear beingdiscussed in other places.
Our hope is that you'reencouraged to have honest
conversations with people inyour own life.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
On today's show we're going tohave an honest conversation
titled I'm Not that Girl.
Steph (00:22):
Then we'll share a slice of life and the show will close
with questions for reflectionand we'll invite you to reflect
on the conversation in your ownlife.
Beth (00:30):
So apparently this is a song title, but it's not
actually what we're talkingabout.
Steph (00:34):
I did want to point out, if anyone is a fan of musicals,
like I am, my favorite musicalis pretty well known.
It's called Wicked the Musicaland there's a song called I'm
Not that Girl in the Musical andevery time I say this title of
this episode I think of thatsong.
But I want to say, if you knowthat musical and that song,
(00:54):
that's not what this episode isabout.
That's my disclaimer, Okay.
Beth (00:59):
Because this episode is about how we change.
I'm not that girl.
Yeah, I'm not that girl.
I'm not that girl.
I'm not that girl.
We're also.
I'm not that girl.
We're struggling withinflection here.
Steph (01:14):
So basically, the concept is are we the same girl or
person?
Beth (01:19):
Obviously, it's or lady or it.
Steph (01:23):
I mean whoever you identify as Are you they Are you
the person you were 10 yearsago, five years ago, back in
high school?
That's the idea is are you thatgirl?
The reason I think this is agreat title is I don't think I'm
that girl.
I don't think I'm that girlfrom yesterday, and that's
really what I wanted to kind ofdig into is are we that girl?
(01:45):
Why not?
Yeah, why?
I feel like there's some stuffto dig into.
For sure, the thing that Iwe've kind of talked about,
which I think is a great exampleof this, is the girl that you
used to be.
I don't know that we would havebeen super close friends, maybe
not.
Maybe not you used to be thatRepublican girl.
Beth (02:07):
Yeah, I mean, actually being Republican was a really
big part of my identity and Iwas very active in college
Republicans and I was veryactive in student government,
which we didn't have.
We had political parties, butthey weren't Democrat and
Republican, but I was in thegroup that was also college
Republicans and then went intostudent government Like that was
my, they were my people.
Steph (02:27):
If you had a shirt, it would say I'm a Republican and
you'd be proud of it.
Beth (02:32):
It probably wouldn't say I'm a Republican, but it would
say Reagan Bush.
It would say Jeb, with a bigexclamation point you would
literally wear that.
Oh yeah, I put that.
I put that bumper stickereverywhere.
Steph (02:47):
Oh my, gosh, you're that car that I would have to go pass
fast because I was annoyed.
Beth (02:52):
I voted Republican in every presidential election
until 2016.
Steph (02:57):
And you like stand by that.
You were like this is the rightpresident for our country.
I know this is the right person.
Beth (03:04):
Yes, like you voted.
I didn't always think it wasthe right person, but I felt
like the party was right.
Oh my, I know.
Steph (03:12):
So you like loved Bush, george Bush, both of them, all
the Bushes, yeah, the Drunks,you're like they're the best for
this country.
Beth (03:22):
I mean, who doesn't like a little bit to drink in the
evening?
Steph (03:27):
There's a little bit and then there's drunk and have a
DUI.
I feel like there's adifference in here's a drink,
here's my DUI.
Beth (03:35):
No, okay, yeah, no, it didn't bother me.
Um, and I, I mean, there arestill things that I believe, I
still have political views thatI actually associate with
Republicanism, that I stillbelieve in.
I just don't see it reflectedin the party today.
Yeah, I mean, in 2016, I upsetsome relatives because I was
(03:57):
like, guys, I'm voting for theRepublican in this election,
that's why I'm voting forHillary Clinton, because I'm
voting for the Republicanbecause?
Steph (04:06):
because you felt she reflected the values more than
the other one.
Beth (04:11):
We're not going to say the name.
Steph (04:12):
Yes, you know who the other one was.
Yeah, um, I guess that wasn'tenough for her to win.
It wasn't.
Your vote did not count tonight.
Beth (04:22):
I mean I voted for her.
The actually the majority ofthe popular vote did go to her
yeah that's a whole nother story, yeah.
But it wasn't enough.
Steph (04:30):
So then, in 2016, you changed your party affiliation
to no party, correct I?
Beth (04:36):
changed it after 2016.
Steph (04:37):
Okay.
Beth (04:37):
Yeah, I was able to vote in the Republican primaries in
2016.
And then I think it was maybeMarch of 2018 or 2019 when I
finally got around to actuallychanging my registration to no
party affiliation.
Steph (04:52):
So then would you say are you the same girl?
You were seven, eight years ago.
Beth (04:57):
I think I'm more the person I was seven or eight
years ago than I than I am theperson I was when I was 20.
I think that my life experiencehas has shown me a lot of
things that I that I wasn'tquite thinking.
I don't only say this aboutmyself, but I just when I look
back I'm like, oh, I wasn'treally thinking through that or
(05:17):
I wasn't thinking criticallyabout that, I was just accepting
it as if it were accurate.
For example, the concept oftrickle down economics.
I believed that that worked.
When the evidence actuallyshows us that it doesn't work.
But I had to think criticallyabout some, some of that stuff
and I had to think through.
I had to think critically aboutsome issues around sexism to
(05:37):
understand why I was reallyopposed to Hillary Clinton.
Yeah, so I mean, all of thatwas just, you know, a journey of
discovery.
And this came to light recentlybecause I was going through an
old box of stuff.
It was like a, you know, like acrayon box or like a cigar box,
but it wasn't cigars, it wasactually crayons and I found um,
I found some mementos fromcollege and in addition to my
(06:02):
Jeb exclamation point sticker,there was also a sticker that
said it was either a sticker ora button that said, um, I'm the
NRA, oh no, yeah, I don't standby that at all.
Were you ever the NRA?
I was never a member of the NRA, but I mean I used to go to
like statewide Republican events, and so you get this swag and
(06:23):
it just becomes part of who youare and you know, part of how
you understand who you are, partof who you understand yourself
to be.
And I really wanted to be inpolitics and I really, you know,
wanted to work on campaigns andI wanted to to set policy, and
I'm so glad that that is not thedirection my life took.
Steph (06:42):
So would you say you were wrong when you were 20?
Like you made the wrong choices.
Or like if you are differentthan if you're not who you were
at 20, then were you wrong.
Or how?
How have you changed?
How'd that change happen?
Beth (06:58):
Yeah, I do think that there are some decisions that I
made, particularly when I thinkabout some of my decisions when
it comes to voting, where I haveregrets.
You know that was a mistake.
I shouldn't have voted that way.
Steph (07:10):
But do you think you were working with the information
you had at the time, in the ageyou were, and you made the best
choice for where you were inlife then, or your ignorant, not
entirely, I just I think I Idon't think I was thinking
critically, I think I, I mean, Igrew up on a pretty steady diet
of conservative talk radio likethat.
Beth (07:30):
We didn't listen to music, we listened to Rush Limbaugh,
and so, with the information Ihad, you know, that was what led
me to make the choices that Imade, which some of which I now
regret.
But also, if at 48, I was thesame person I was at 20, that
would be really disappointing tome.
Like, hopefully there's beenmaturity and personal growth and
(07:53):
you know, self-awareness hasbrought new, new changes, new,
deeper understandings, newopportunities to understand,
don't you think?
I mean, do you think right nowis there even a party, you, that
wants to be the same person youwere at 20?
Steph (08:09):
Well, it's a really weird thought this am I that person?
Because I think both things atthe same time.
I think I'm the same person.
I've always been, but I alsothink I'm completely different
and I kind of look at life likealmost like a puzzle, and like
when you're born, all the piecesare there, they're all
scattered around, they're notput in order and as I've gotten
(08:31):
older, the pieces have startedto go into place, into their
places, and I can see thepicture more clearly.
And and I kind of think, likewhen you talk about you know in
your 20s, like you were makingthe wrong decisions.
Well, but also now that both ofus are older, like when we
think back to our 20s, like wehad such a small view of the
(08:53):
world and our world was so big,though our world was like, look,
I know so much, but we,literally we knew nothing, and
so you know we were working withlike the small piece of what we
had.
But no, I think I'm someonecompletely different than I was
in my 20s.
But everything that I'velearned, like has brought me to
(09:15):
where I am today, and like thestuff that I know now, like if I
knew what I knew now, like backin my 20s I don't know where I
would be, but you know you can'tdo that, you can't go back and
you know, like I think everybodywould like do their 20s
completely different if they hadthe knowledge of you know,
being in their 30s or 40s.
But like, you know somethingthat you know some.
(09:36):
A huge thing that happened inmy life was last year finding
out, discovering that I'm gay,like I always was gay but never
knew that.
Like that was never somethingthat I was aware of.
And so life I look at lifecompletely different now, with
that knowledge, than I did.
Like I always felt likesomething.
(09:58):
Like I always felt like anoutsider for some reason, even
though I was like from like amiddle upper class family, like
I lived in like this part ofTallahassee with like the very
white people.
And like I can, you know I cantalk the talk, like I can do
what I need to do to survive inthis area, but I always felt
(10:20):
like an outsider and.
I just never really fully knewwhy.
Now I definitely feel like anoutsider.
I can really pinpoint likethat's why, but uh, that's why
all these things targeted atstraight people actually are not
so this is why I've always beenreally annoyed and like
bothered by people like notacknowledging gay people and
(10:41):
like people that are different,like why I've always been like
like harping on that.
Like I remember, like I was ina Bible study in college and I
was like why aren't we talkingabout gay people and acceptance?
And like why are we like hushedtones on this?
Like this is important andthey're like no, we don't need
to talk about that.
Okay, okay, great.
(11:02):
But I feel like with every like,every day, I'm learning and
growing and I'm changing in someway, but I'm also like the core
of who I am still stays thesame, but I just get new
knowledge and new.
It's almost like a video.
I don't play video games, butit's almost like a video game,
like as you go to differentlevels, like you get like more
(11:24):
like tokens and powers and like,so.
Like who you are at the end ofthe video game is completely
different than who you were atthe be at the beginning.
I mean, I think that's like aparallel of life, like we aren't
the person that we were when wewere, you know, 20, which I do
think is like an activeparticipant thing.
Like I think you have to choose.
Beth (11:43):
Like there are some people who I would say are stuck in
their ways, right.
Steph (11:46):
Yeah, I don't want to change yeah.
Beth (11:48):
I have encountered people like that and I don't want to be
one of those people.
Steph (11:52):
Yeah, and like I want to take in new information.
Like when the Black LivesMatter, all of that stuff was
happening, like I took that toheart and was really trying to
listen and like, okay, I wasraised to be racist, let me
understand what this means andwhy this is.
And like I'm not afraid to saythat and explore that and find
(12:12):
out this new information that Ishould have known so much
earlier.
But it doesn't matter.
Like now I'm going to learn itand that doesn't make me any
less of a person because thisreally has nothing to do with me
in the sense of I didn'tintentionally go out to harm
right, harm people.
But now that I know thisinformation, like I need to move
(12:33):
forward with it.
It's kind of like, now that Iknow I'm gay, like I was
realizing the day I was, likeI'm actually not happier knowing
I'm gay.
Like it doesn't make me like,oh my gosh, my life is now
complete that I know.
But, I also can't go backwardsand like go back to.
Well, I was never reallystraight, but like I can't go
backwards and say I'm going toknow this.
Beth (12:54):
I know this Like it just is and it's like, and I have to
progress with life with thisknowledge and and you are the
same person that you were a yearago or year and a half ago, or
two years ago.
Steph (13:06):
But I have so much more knowledge but you have more
information?
Yeah, I have so much moreinformation which helps, will
help shape the next steps.
Like and that was the samething with all of the abuse that
I realized as I got older LikeI had been abused at two, five
and 10.
And I had no knowledge of that,like mental knowledge of that,
until I was in my early 20s.
(13:26):
And then I had to work throughall of that and when I learned
that it really unlocked, like me, be able to see what my why my
childhood was the way it was andwhy I felt the way I did
because of all of this abusethat I hadn't worked through.
And again, when I learned aboutabuse it didn't make my life
happier, like that I know thatthese horrible things happened
(13:49):
to me, but I was able to movepast a lot of that stuff that
was holding me back, that didn'teven like realize was holding
me back.
Beth (13:59):
Yeah, that's the thing is, the stuff was still there.
Yeah, the stuff was still thereeven though I didn't have the
word to it, right Right, havingan awareness of the stuff didn't
make the stuff happen.
Having an awareness is whatgave you the the ability, the
power, made it possible for youto to relinquish the emotional
hold that it had on you.
Steph (14:18):
Yeah, and it's like how being gay doesn't mean I'm
happier, but it it unlocks, likeme being able to move forward
in life, like now I have, I havea direction for what life
potentially could be with apartner.
What that could look like, likemy image before was what the
(14:39):
world was showing me of a manand that didn't seem like
something I wanted or was goingto ever work out.
So I was like, okay, I'm goodbeing single, which I still am.
Okay being single, I'm not likeagainst that, but there is this
whole possibility of like, huh,I could have a life with
somebody that I love one day.
So I think the change is in thelearning and not being afraid to
(15:02):
explore these new things andalso like realizing that, like
when I learned about the abusethat was, that was bad, that was
bad stuff, but I needed to workthrough that, because bad
things happen, they happen toeverybody in different ways and
it's it's how we work throughthem that like changes us for
the better.
And it's not necessarily you'regoing to find that out right
(15:25):
away, but working through thatis ultimately like like I've
worked on that abuse so muchthat it doesn't really affect me
on a daily basis and it doesn'tlike derail the person that I
am like.
I'm happy with my life, I likewho I am and I don't live in
that like victim mentality Rightand let that like overshadow
(15:47):
what I can do in life.
Beth (15:49):
I mean based on the number of like self-help blogs and
self-help books, it seems likeAmericans at least have a desire
to be their best selves, whichwould suggest that we are in the
process of changing, improvingWell, I think the like
(16:10):
stereotype is that we want tochange and grow for the better
every day.
Steph (16:15):
I think that's like the like that's what your goal is in
life.
But I think, like there's a lotby listening to the noise of
social media and of the society.
I think that's where you, forme, I know that's where I can
get like lost in it, becausethey're telling you who you want
to be and how you want tochange in this direction, that
(16:35):
direction, and I think that canbe so overwhelming and like.
For me, it's a lot of timesit's not something intentional,
like like I didn't intentionallyseek out to explore my
sexuality.
You know that wasn't somethingbut that was circumstances of
life that presented itself and Iwasn't even really conscious of
it starting.
But when it started and I wasconscious of it, I allowed that
(16:59):
Like I didn't say, no, I'm notgoing to think about girls.
No, not at all.
Beth (17:04):
And I was like wait what is this?
Steph (17:06):
Let me explore this.
Like this is complicated andthis is weird, but like maybe
there's something here I need todig into, and so I.
That's kind of how I've seenthings in life.
I things present themselves tome and I choose to explore them.
But I don't necessarily likelisten to a self-help guru and
say, okay, I'm exploring thisbecause this person on social
(17:28):
media told me to, Right right,right, I think for me.
Beth (17:31):
I mean some of it in some ways.
You know I've already said likeI'm really glad I'm not I don't
think, put in political terms,I don't think the same way that
I thought when I was 20.
I also was a really angry momwhen my kids were toddlers and
I'm really glad I'm not stillthat way.
I am glad that I, that I wentto therapy and I'm glad that I
(17:55):
worked on the grief and the andthe fear and the, the stuff that
was waiting for me, that Ineeded to work on so that I
would not be an angry person.
That didn't present itself in ahey, let's have a moment of fun
, self-discovery kind of way.
(18:15):
It was like a rock bottommoment, you know, and I.
But I think that then somethingreally positive came out of
that rock bottom moment becauseI was able to let, I was able to
work through anger and developtools, coping mechanisms and
tools We've talked before abouta healthy toolbox, you know so
that, so that anger doesn'tcontrol me.
Steph (18:34):
Well, and you are a pastor now I am, and your kids
are out of the house.
They're.
Beth (18:40):
I guess they're grown.
I guess we could say grownright, empty nest, yeah Slothing
, they're grown.
Steph (18:44):
They're adults, but when they were younger, your first
career, would you say, was as alawyer.
Yes, so are you that girl thatwas a lawyer back in the day
Like, would you say that you'restill that?
Beth (18:59):
girl.
Yeah, in a lot of ways, I thinkI am.
I think that there were a lotof things about practicing law
that really that really workedfor me because of who I am.
You know who I was and who I am.
Steph (19:13):
What kind of things?
Beth (19:14):
I love to learn.
You know, that's always beentrue, it's still true, and and
practicing law requires a lot oflearning.
Um, I like to.
I have a.
I place a high value on the,the, the, the.
This is going to be funny nowbecause I've just flubbed it up,
but I place a high value onbeing a good communicator and
that's a big part of the lawpractice.
(19:35):
And, uh, being able to takevolumes of information and and
synthesize them down is a bigpart of what a lawyer needs to
do, and that has served me verywell and it and it.
It is like who I am, like Ilike to be a leader, I like to
be a communicator.
Like you know, that's kind ofhow I'm built.
Steph (19:54):
So well, one thing we're saying is with the new
information we change.
We can change Like with newinformation.
You decided to not be in theRepublican party anymore, but I
wonder how that works with beinga lawyer, because you're hired
for one side of a case and thenyou research the heck out of
(20:14):
that.
What if you learn newinformation that you realize
your side might be wrong?
How does that work being alawyer?
Beth (20:21):
Well, if everyone is doing their job right, then everybody
has all the same information.
If you're withholdinginformation, then you're
probably acting unethically.
Steph (20:32):
So it's how you spend the information, I guess yeah.
Beth (20:35):
So I mean, I did have cases and remember I defended
people so in civil cases, not incriminal cases, but I defended
people in cases that were justabout money and there were times
where I had to say we're goingto lose this case, we deserve to
lose this case.
Okay, hey, insurance company,if you don't want to have a jury
decide how much you're going tohave to pay, you should settle.
(20:57):
You know, you should try tonegotiate a settlement that the
other side is willing to accept.
Steph (21:03):
Did you help decide what that money would be?
How?
Beth (21:07):
much that would be.
Yes, yes, and there's.
There are a lot of researchtools available for that.
I mean every.
There's a database of juryverdicts and you can go in and
you can keyword search and see,you know.
Oh, if it's a case about a.
Steph (21:19):
So you had the power to say no, you were in.
The wrong.
Pay up yeah To your client.
Yes, wow, okay.
Beth (21:27):
Yeah, yeah, and and that's part of being their advocate is
not taking them to court andexposing them to, you know, an
potentially unlimited amount ofdamages.
You know you've got to.
You got to make sure theyunderstand what they're up
against, yeah, and what ispossible and how a jury might
(21:48):
see it or how a judge might seeit.
So do you use those tools as apastor.
Hmm, that's an interestingquestion.
I definitely use some of thethings I learned as a lawyer.
I also think sometimes some ofthe things I learned as a lawyer
get in my way and I have towork around them.
For example, when you're alawyer, you want you really
(22:09):
don't want to ask questions youdon't already know the answer to
.
Hmm, Right, so you?
So this is this.
That's why you love the podcastbecause we pre-asked we really
have the question, so you knowit's going to be asked.
And sometimes you're like,don't answer it now, answer it
on the podcast.
And I'm like, but I need toknow the answer now.
Yeah, and that's really not agreat way to approach, for
(22:30):
example, when somebody is comingin to talk about where they are
spiritually or if they need alittle bit of pastoral
counseling.
It's like you should not becoming in thinking you already
have all the answers.
You need to approach thosesituations with a sense of
curiosity, you know, and askingquestions and not knowing the
answers, and also realizing theanswers very rarely matter,
(22:52):
right, when you're a lawyer, theanswers matter, so.
So in that way some of thosethings probably get in my way.
But but if at the core of thatis a sense of being curious,
then I think I'm still the sameperson that I was.
It just presents itself indifferent ways.
You know one thing about thisidea of change and and and
(23:15):
evolution and growth if I thinkabout myself as a 20 year old
married person, like everypossibility existed ahead of me,
right, and each year there arekind of fewer possibilities.
Steph (23:31):
Yeah, I've noticed that with my niblings because they're
, all you know, under 13.
And it's it's so interesting tosee life through their eyes
because they're talking aboutwhat their futures might look
like and what they could do.
And I remember when I hear themtalk, I remember being that age
and being like you could doanything, life could be anything
.
And then now that I'm in youknow, 30s, you're in your 40s,
(23:54):
it's like that is a smallerscope, like you and you have
more knowledge of what ispossible, like as a child, just
the world is possible, I coulddo anything, I could go anywhere
.
And like also like I knowmyself better now and so like I
don't really like to travel,like you love to travel, but I
(24:14):
don't really like to travel.
I don't enjoy a lot of thepieces of travel and, like you
know, that's such a stereotypeof, or it's something that a lot
of people like to do is traveland I'm like I'm good, like I
like my house and my dog, and so, like the older I get, the more
I'm like I'm good.
(24:34):
I'll watch the YouTube video onit.
I got it, I'm good.
But I know you like travel, sothat you definitely fit that
stereotype.
Yeah.
Beth (24:43):
But the idea that, like you know, when I was, when
Steven and I were first married,and like before we had bought a
house, like it could have beenany house, or before we had kids
, our kids could have turned outto be any kind of people you
know another.
Steph (24:57):
they're kind of people.
Yeah, Now you know what theyare.
Beth (25:00):
Well, I mean, it's like, yeah, person and dog person my
children will never be, forexample, the president of the
United States.
Steph (25:08):
And you want them to be there.
Beth (25:09):
Constitutionally they can't.
Steph (25:11):
I didn't know that.
Beth (25:12):
Right yeah, that that literally is a possibility that
no longer exists.
It probably never reallyexisted.
Very few people actually growup to be president of the United
States, but so it's an extremeexample Russians are great
astronauts.
Yeah, except Peter's colorblind.
Steph (25:29):
Well, he was not going to be an astronaut.
Oh, you know that.
Beth (25:32):
It's okay.
I mean, very few people areExactly that's how we know.
Steph (25:37):
That's what I was saying.
It's like I don't think we knowany astronauts and we never
will.
I don't think I'm pretty sure.
I mean if that was a goal ofhis, I don't think it ever was.
I think it has to really be agoal and a love for you to even
like.
Pursue that and get there.
Beth (25:51):
Yes, so every year there seems to be fewer and fewer
possibilities.
Steph (25:58):
Is that sad?
Is that a sad thing, do youthink?
Is it sad that your, your scopeof life is getting smaller and
smaller?
Beth (26:06):
I think it's all in how I choose to look at it.
I think if I really saw it as anarrowing or you know that that
would feel like less than, thatlife was becoming less than.
But I don't see it that waybecause at the same time that,
like, things that were never apossibility for me are still not
a possibility for me I'm nevergoing to be an Olympic figure
skater.
I didn't even grow up with iceskates Like that was never going
(26:28):
to happen.
So it's okay with me that thatstill is never going to happen.
As I've gotten older, as I'vegotten further in my career,
like as you know, just becauseit's kind of a typical thing
that as you get older, yourfinances kind of get more secure
, it's like, oh, that opens upnew possibilities and I can lean
into those possibilities.
And then I'm not sad.
Are you?
Are you who you thought youwould be Like?
(26:50):
If you think back to when youwere in high school?
Would high school seniorStephanie recognize the person
sitting across from me?
Steph (26:59):
I think I would recognize myself, but I would be
definitely surprised in a lot ofways.
Well, first of all, there wasno YouTube back then, but I was
very much into TV production.
I mean, that was a I was doingit.
I was actually doing itprofessionally in high school
and I was on my way to major itin college.
So I don't think I would besurprised at all that I'm in
(27:22):
production in any way.
I think I would be excited tosee that I had a house.
I think I would be excited toknow that I had a dog but also
been like oh, a dog, what kindis that?
What is that?
I think I would be shocked toknow that I'm a lesbian.
Beth (27:38):
What about the fact that you've written a memoir?
What high school you'd be like?
Yeah, that tracks.
Steph (27:43):
I think high school me would be like whoa, I have to
read that.
That will be like soinformative.
And then I'd read it and I'd belike, oh, that was too much
information for right now Ihaven't lived that yet.
So I I don't think I would havebeen completely shocked that I
wrote a book, although shockedin a sense because I was
dyslexic and dyslexic and atthat time I didn't have the
(28:06):
knowledge of what was in thebook.
So I probably would have beenlike, oh, what is that about?
Right, yeah.
So I don't think I would havebeen like who is that girl?
I think I'd be pleasantlysurprised.
I'd be like cool, and I'd lookexactly like I did too, so I
would recognize myself.
I still look the same, I likewhen I was five years old.
I still look the exact same.
So, just a couple more wrinkles.
(28:28):
I earned them.
I'm fine with it.
It's cool.
But yeah, would you recognizeyourself?
Beth (28:34):
I think that high school me would be, would be happy.
I think high school me would bereally relieved.
Yeah, I had a lot of fear andanxiety about anxiety might not
be the right word I had a lot offear about is everything going
to turn out okay, which is partof what actually Made me an
angry mom, right, I mean allthat is related.
(28:55):
So I think Some, every once ina while, they'll say you know,
something will come up onFacebook or whatever, and so
somewhere on social media, belike you know what.
What are the the three or fourwords you would want to say To
your younger self and I don'teven have to think about it.
I always it's gonna be okay.
I just would want to tell myyounger self that it's gonna be
okay, you're gonna be okay.
(29:16):
Yeah, things are gonna happenand you're still gonna be okay.
Steph (29:20):
Yeah, I think I would say it's gonna be hard but you're
gonna be okay.
Yeah, like I think that's whatI would tell my high school self
, because it was after.
I mean, it was starting to gethard, but it was like that's
when I started going through allthe self-indulging, all that
stuff right after that, and so Idefinitely would be like it's
gonna be hard but it's gonna beokay.
Beth (29:40):
Yeah, it's gonna be okay.
Steph (29:42):
Well, one thing that you have experience with that I
don't yet, but something we keeptalking about is that we are
constantly changing and growing.
Well, how does that work whenyou're married to somebody?
How do you change and grow withanother person?
Beth (29:57):
I think one of the one of the most incredible truths in my
life, or one of the mostincredible gifts in my life, is
that Steven and I have grown andchanged together in ways that
are really complimentary, and Ithink that's why, all these
years later, we're still reallyhappily married, like 28 years.
Steph (30:19):
How'd you do that?
How did you make sure you weregrowing and changing in the same
way?
I?
Beth (30:23):
Think, just with communication, I think we just I
mean, we talk all the time, wemight talk more than he wants to
, and also Choosing each other.
So I can't remember if I talkedabout this Five years ago or
whatever, when we started thepodcast.
But part of our journey toadoption was a very brief spin
(30:45):
through the world of infertilityand we had this moment where it
was like, well, we are notgoing to be able to have a baby
together Biologically,biologically, so is that why
we're together?
Like, did we get married to beable to?
Reproduce by a lot, you know,and it was like, no, that's not,
(31:06):
that was not our purpose inbeing married.
And so then it kind of opened,opened us up to the realization
that we get to choose each otherevery day, like what a gift is
that?
And I Think having that, thatshared Experience and having
that shared realization has hasreally helped us a lot.
(31:27):
You know, it's like, no, Ichoose to grow with you, I
choose to, I choose to sharethis journey with you, you know.
And also he was with me whenthings got really rough and I
was really struggling with griefand really struggling with
anger.
He, you know, he was rightthere for me and I have been
there for him through similarthings.
So those, I think those sharedexperiences really help.
Steph (31:50):
Was there ever a moment when you realized that you
couldn't biologically have kids,that you thought are we really
compatible, since we can'tbiologically have children?
Beth (32:00):
No, I don't remember thinking that.
I just remember thinking moreabout Purpose, because we've
always been goal oriented, youknow, and it was like, okay,
well, we have a plan, and ourplan is that we're gonna get
we're gonna get our bachelor'sdegrees as quick as we can we're
gonna get married, we're gonnaget settled in our careers,
we're gonna get, you know, ahouse that is great, a great
(32:21):
place for kids to grow up in,and then we're gonna have our
babies Biologically yeah.
Steph (32:26):
Which is always what I always think is like Funny about
plans is like you're likewhat's your plan, what's your
five-year plan with your 10-yearplan?
Then you write it all out, yousay what it is, and then it's
kind of funny because the momentyou write it down, as the
moment, it seems like it's allgonna change.
Yeah, you know, I and I don'tknow, I kind of I don't make
(32:46):
those kind of long-term goalsBecause I'm like I have zero
idea what's gonna happen next,and that's I'm okay with that.
And I feel like if I try to putmyself in a box, it's a not
gonna happen, because somethingelse is gonna happen that I have
no idea what that is.
Now.
I mean, I'm not against goals.
Like I do make goals here andthere, but I had no idea five
(33:09):
years ago where I'd be today,like so how could I have planned
for that then?
So it's kind of funny thatyou're like we're gonna have
kids 2.4 kids, right, and youdid, though, but it was, it was
better.
Yeah, it's just chose them.
It was just you picked them up.
Beth (33:25):
Yeah, it was.
I say it all the time, but thechildren that God gave us are
better than the children wewould have made biologically,
like I just, I just see that assuch a gift and a positive way
that the plan Veered off courseor, you know, didn't come to
fruition.
I'm really thankful for it.
Steph (33:44):
It did, it did just in a way that you didn't so big
parents, yeah, so we stillremain parents.
Beth (33:51):
I remember people saying that and I thought it was weird.
But even when your children are, oh yeah.
Adults, you still are theparent, and sometimes I'm tired
of being the parent, but I do itanyway Because you know it's a
privilege.
Steph (34:07):
It switches a little bit as you get older, though, like I
do feel, like you know, my momand I work together and we see
each other every day and I feellike there's times where I'm
parenting her not in a I meanthat sounds a little too extreme
, but the Revolve, the roles canreverse in ways then then they
always were.
I mean, she still is Caring andall those things, but like
(34:30):
there's things that I will dothat, you know, like a parent
would have done for me, but sothe lines are blurred.
Beth (34:38):
Yeah, and hopefully our parents are open to Growing and
learning too, and so sometimesit can feel like that, like, oh
Well, now I, as the parent, havesomething I need to learn and I
can learn it for my kids.
Yeah, whereas I've been theteacher, you know that's been,
yeah, my role as they've beengrowing up, for sure.
Steph (34:56):
So obviously you seem like you're the kind of person
that likes to have goals andplans and structure.
I do so.
I guess my question is like Areyou still that way today, like
this year?
Are you have your goals?
You're playing your structure.
You ready to go?
You know what's happening, youknow where everything's going.
Beth (35:13):
I still want to be that person.
However, I have moreuncertainty in my life right now
that I've ever had before, andsome days that is hard and it's
because I I've been approved forordination in the United
Methodist Church and that partof that process is you agree
that you will serve in thechurch that they send you to?
(35:35):
And in my particular situation,because of the conference.
You know, I serve in theFlorida conference.
That means anywhere fromChattahoochee, florida, to Key
West, florida, and I'm notgetting Key West because my
friend Madeline is the pastorthere and she's amazing and
awesome.
There's only one.
I just got appointed there lastJuly, so I know I'm not getting
(35:55):
Key West, so it's we can govisit.
I'll go with you.
Steph (35:58):
Yes, I went in.
Beth (35:59):
November and it was amazing.
We had a great time.
If you happen to be in the KeyWest area, you should definitely
check out Key West.
You died at Beth at a church.
It's fantastic.
It's the first and only it'sthe only, yeah, the only.
Steph (36:13):
So your uncertainty is coming from the fact that you
could be appointed to a churchanywhere in Florida.
Beth (36:21):
Almost anywhere.
Yeah, almost anywhere.
Anywhere that's in the Easterntime zone.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm not incontrol of that, and oh, you
love that.
I am having a hard time withthat.
Steph (36:33):
How is your husband?
Beth (36:34):
dealing with that.
It depends on the day, okay.
Steph (36:37):
Yeah.
Beth (36:38):
But actually we have fallen back to well, remember,
when we thought that we weregonna have biological children
and we thought that it was gonnawork out a certain way and
actually the way that it workedout was better.
I mean, our lens for that isthat that was a gift from God,
and so it's like, okay, well,this too could be filled with-.
Steph (36:58):
Well, of course it's gonna be God related.
It's church, Church, God Doneyeah.
Beth (37:05):
Yeah, so I but still I mean, and there's so much head
up in that right.
I mean, when you're a pastor,the church provides your housing
.
Yeah, so we might not get topick the house we live in.
I will say gone are the days ofwhen the church used to also
provide the furniture for thehouse, because that would be
gross.
Steph (37:22):
Can't they just do stipends now?
Beth (37:23):
They do, and a lot of churches are doing that now
Instead of an actual house.
But if you ask Stephen, he'llsay Right, beth, right, you're
gonna find a house that's withinthe housing allowance.
Sure, you are Cause he teasesme a little bit about being
extra and liking things to be alittle bit extra nice or a
little bit extra big or a littlebit you know.
So I don't know.
(37:45):
I don't know what will happen.
That's the thing is, I justdon't know what will happen.
Steph (37:50):
And.
Beth (37:50):
I don't know where my kids are gonna live.
Hannah is getting ready tofinish community college, which
means it's time for her totransfer, and I don't know
exactly which city she's gonnatransfer to.
And then, if I move and shemoves, probably my son will move
too.
Like I don't know where we'regonna be living.
(38:10):
I mean, you can't see me, youguys, but my shoulders are up at
my ears Cause I'm like I don'tknow what's happening.
Yeah, but I do.
Steph (38:20):
I know that it's gonna be okay.
Yeah, you want all the answersbut you can't have them now.
And it's gonna be okay, butit's really hard to live in that
uncertainty.
Beth (38:29):
Yes, I don't like the uncertainty.
It's just like when someone isreally sick and you're waiting
on test results that's the worsttime.
Sometimes the waiting is worsethan just getting their results
and knowing.
Okay, now I have to make a planfor what's gonna happen next.
It's just the uncertainty of itis uncomfortable.
Steph (38:47):
Yes, and that is kind of crazy, because I am in that same
uncertainty because my mom hasbeen talking about wanting to
possibly move to Orlando, yeah,and to be with her grandkids,
yes, which you know, I've livedin Orlando and that was enough
for me.
So I'm in a very uncertain time.
(39:09):
Where would I move?
Is she gonna move?
What does that look like?
So I kind of have the same kindof uncertainty about like and
that's a big thing, like thesecurity of where you're going
to live, like is a big deal,like, at least it is to me, I'm
assuming it is for a lot ofpeople but like knowing where
you're gonna be and I loveTallahassee as much as, like I
(39:32):
know people might.
Beth (39:33):
Just I know, I know I love Tallahassee.
I choose Tallahassee every day.
Yes, I mean Stephen, and I havesaid that so many times because
you know, as he's built hisbusiness, he doesn't have any
clients in Tallahassee.
So this is a choice.
This is the place where we havechosen to live, and now my job
might make us move.
Steph (39:52):
Yeah, it's scary, I know, I know my job that is not
lucrative, yeah, but it's a Godgiven job and you got to listen,
yeah, yeah.
Beth (40:04):
I yeah.
And then, when everything is,you know, when I'm at my best,
I'm like, oh, I want to listen.
Yeah, I want you know, yeah.
Steph (40:10):
And I'm comfortable, I'll listen here.
I'm ready, yes, yes, but whenI'm uncomfortable, no, I don't
know what's happening.
I just make sure.
I want to know everything.
Beth (40:19):
I need to know the plans, but it's going to be okay.
Just like I would tell myselfof however many years ago.
I need to remind myself of that.
Now it's going to be okay.
Steph (40:33):
At the IndieViege episode we end with questions for
reflection.
These are questions based ontoday's show that Beth will read
and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself, or you can find thewritten in our description.
Beth (40:44):
Number one do you believe people can change?
Have you changed?
Number two are you the sameperson you were in high school?
Would the high school versionof yourself recognize you today?
Number three if you couldforecast the next five or 10
years of your life, what changesdo you think you might see?
And number four do people holdus back from growing up?
Steph (41:09):
This has been the Discovering Our Scores podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
Beth (41:14):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast, where we
share personal experiences, sowe can learn from each other.
Our mission is to talk aboutthings you might relate to but
that you don't hear beingdiscussed in other places.
Our hope is that you'reencouraged to have honest
conversations with people inyour own life.
I'm Steph and I'm Beth.
On today's show we're going tohave an honest conversation
titled I'm Not that Girl.
Steph (00:22):
Then we'll share a slice of life and the show will close
with questions for reflectionand we'll invite you to reflect
on the conversation in your ownlife.
Beth (00:30):
So apparently this is a song title, but it's not
actually what we're talkingabout.
Steph (00:34):
I did want to point out, if anyone is a fan of musicals,
like I am, my favorite musicalis pretty well known.
It's called Wicked the Musicaland there's a song called I'm
Not that Girl in the Musical andevery time I say this title of
this episode I think of thatsong.
But I want to say, if you knowthat musical and that song,
(00:54):
that's not what this episode isabout.
That's my disclaimer, Okay.
Beth (00:59):
Because this episode is about how we change.
I'm not that girl.
Yeah, I'm not that girl.
I'm not that girl.
I'm not that girl.
We're also.
I'm not that girl.
We're struggling withinflection here.
Steph (01:14):
So basically, the concept is are we the same girl or
person?
Beth (01:19):
Obviously, it's or lady or it.
Steph (01:23):
I mean whoever you identify as Are you they Are you
the person you were 10 yearsago, five years ago, back in
high school?
That's the idea is are you thatgirl?
The reason I think this is agreat title is I don't think I'm
that girl.
I don't think I'm that girlfrom yesterday, and that's
really what I wanted to kind ofdig into is are we that girl?
(01:45):
Why not?
Yeah, why?
I feel like there's some stuffto dig into.
For sure, the thing that Iwe've kind of talked about,
which I think is a great exampleof this, is the girl that you
used to be.
I don't know that we would havebeen super close friends, maybe
not.
Maybe not you used to be thatRepublican girl.
Beth (02:07):
Yeah, I mean, actually being Republican was a really
big part of my identity and Iwas very active in college
Republicans and I was veryactive in student government,
which we didn't have.
We had political parties, butthey weren't Democrat and
Republican, but I was in thegroup that was also college
Republicans and then went intostudent government Like that was
my, they were my people.
Steph (02:27):
If you had a shirt, it would say I'm a Republican and
you'd be proud of it.
Beth (02:32):
It probably wouldn't say I'm a Republican, but it would
say Reagan Bush.
It would say Jeb, with a bigexclamation point you would
literally wear that.
Oh yeah, I put that.
I put that bumper stickereverywhere.
Steph (02:47):
Oh my, gosh, you're that car that I would have to go pass
fast because I was annoyed.
Beth (02:52):
I voted Republican in every presidential election
until 2016.
Steph (02:57):
And you like stand by that.
You were like this is the rightpresident for our country.
I know this is the right person.
Beth (03:04):
Yes, like you voted.
I didn't always think it wasthe right person, but I felt
like the party was right.
Oh my, I know.
Steph (03:12):
So you like loved Bush, george Bush, both of them, all
the Bushes, yeah, the Drunks,you're like they're the best for
this country.
Beth (03:22):
I mean, who doesn't like a little bit to drink in the
evening?
Steph (03:27):
There's a little bit and then there's drunk and have a
DUI.
I feel like there's adifference in here's a drink,
here's my DUI.
Beth (03:35):
No, okay, yeah, no, it didn't bother me.
Um, and I, I mean, there arestill things that I believe, I
still have political views thatI actually associate with
Republicanism, that I stillbelieve in.
I just don't see it reflectedin the party today.
Yeah, I mean, in 2016, I upsetsome relatives because I was
(03:57):
like, guys, I'm voting for theRepublican in this election,
that's why I'm voting forHillary Clinton, because I'm
voting for the Republicanbecause?
Steph (04:06):
because you felt she reflected the values more than
the other one.
Beth (04:11):
We're not going to say the name.
Steph (04:12):
Yes, you know who the other one was.
Yeah, um, I guess that wasn'tenough for her to win.
It wasn't.
Your vote did not count tonight.
Beth (04:22):
I mean I voted for her.
The actually the majority ofthe popular vote did go to her
yeah that's a whole nother story, yeah.
But it wasn't enough.
Steph (04:30):
So then, in 2016, you changed your party affiliation
to no party, correct I?
Beth (04:36):
changed it after 2016.
Steph (04:37):
Okay.
Beth (04:37):
Yeah, I was able to vote in the Republican primaries in
2016.
And then I think it was maybeMarch of 2018 or 2019 when I
finally got around to actuallychanging my registration to no
party affiliation.
Steph (04:52):
So then would you say are you the same girl?
You were seven, eight years ago.
Beth (04:57):
I think I'm more the person I was seven or eight
years ago than I than I am theperson I was when I was 20.
I think that my life experiencehas has shown me a lot of
things that I that I wasn'tquite thinking.
I don't only say this aboutmyself, but I just when I look
back I'm like, oh, I wasn'treally thinking through that or
(05:17):
I wasn't thinking criticallyabout that, I was just accepting
it as if it were accurate.
For example, the concept oftrickle down economics.
I believed that that worked.
When the evidence actuallyshows us that it doesn't work.
But I had to think criticallyabout some, some of that stuff
and I had to think through.
I had to think critically aboutsome issues around sexism to
(05:37):
understand why I was reallyopposed to Hillary Clinton.
Yeah, so I mean, all of thatwas just, you know, a journey of
discovery.
And this came to light recentlybecause I was going through an
old box of stuff.
It was like a, you know, like acrayon box or like a cigar box,
but it wasn't cigars, it wasactually crayons and I found um,
I found some mementos fromcollege and in addition to my
(06:02):
Jeb exclamation point sticker,there was also a sticker that
said it was either a sticker ora button that said, um, I'm the
NRA, oh no, yeah, I don't standby that at all.
Were you ever the NRA?
I was never a member of the NRA, but I mean I used to go to
like statewide Republican events, and so you get this swag and
(06:23):
it just becomes part of who youare and you know, part of how
you understand who you are, partof who you understand yourself
to be.
And I really wanted to be inpolitics and I really, you know,
wanted to work on campaigns andI wanted to to set policy, and
I'm so glad that that is not thedirection my life took.
Steph (06:42):
So would you say you were wrong when you were 20?
Like you made the wrong choices.
Or like if you are differentthan if you're not who you were
at 20, then were you wrong.
Or how?
How have you changed?
How'd that change happen?
Beth (06:58):
Yeah, I do think that there are some decisions that I
made, particularly when I thinkabout some of my decisions when
it comes to voting, where I haveregrets.
You know that was a mistake.
I shouldn't have voted that way.
Steph (07:10):
But do you think you were working with the information
you had at the time, in the ageyou were, and you made the best
choice for where you were inlife then, or your ignorant, not
entirely, I just I think I Idon't think I was thinking
critically, I think I, I mean, Igrew up on a pretty steady diet
of conservative talk radio likethat.
Beth (07:30):
We didn't listen to music, we listened to Rush Limbaugh,
and so, with the information Ihad, you know, that was what led
me to make the choices that Imade, which some of which I now
regret.
But also, if at 48, I was thesame person I was at 20, that
would be really disappointing tome.
Like, hopefully there's beenmaturity and personal growth and
(07:53):
you know, self-awareness hasbrought new, new changes, new,
deeper understandings, newopportunities to understand,
don't you think?
I mean, do you think right nowis there even a party, you, that
wants to be the same person youwere at 20?
Steph (08:09):
Well, it's a really weird thought this am I that person?
Because I think both things atthe same time.
I think I'm the same person.
I've always been, but I alsothink I'm completely different
and I kind of look at life likealmost like a puzzle, and like
when you're born, all the piecesare there, they're all
scattered around, they're notput in order and as I've gotten
(08:31):
older, the pieces have startedto go into place, into their
places, and I can see thepicture more clearly.
And and I kind of think, likewhen you talk about you know in
your 20s, like you were makingthe wrong decisions.
Well, but also now that both ofus are older, like when we
think back to our 20s, like wehad such a small view of the
(08:53):
world and our world was so big,though our world was like, look,
I know so much, but we,literally we knew nothing, and
so you know we were working withlike the small piece of what we
had.
But no, I think I'm someonecompletely different than I was
in my 20s.
But everything that I'velearned, like has brought me to
(09:15):
where I am today, and like thestuff that I know now, like if I
knew what I knew now, like backin my 20s I don't know where I
would be, but you know you can'tdo that, you can't go back and
you know, like I think everybodywould like do their 20s
completely different if they hadthe knowledge of you know,
being in their 30s or 40s.
But like, you know somethingthat you know some.
(09:36):
A huge thing that happened inmy life was last year finding
out, discovering that I'm gay,like I always was gay but never
knew that.
Like that was never somethingthat I was aware of.
And so life I look at lifecompletely different now, with
that knowledge, than I did.
Like I always felt likesomething.
(09:58):
Like I always felt like anoutsider for some reason, even
though I was like from like amiddle upper class family, like
I lived in like this part ofTallahassee with like the very
white people.
And like I can, you know I cantalk the talk, like I can do
what I need to do to survive inthis area, but I always felt
(10:20):
like an outsider and.
I just never really fully knewwhy.
Now I definitely feel like anoutsider.
I can really pinpoint likethat's why, but uh, that's why
all these things targeted atstraight people actually are not
so this is why I've always beenreally annoyed and like
bothered by people like notacknowledging gay people and
(10:41):
like people that are different,like why I've always been like
like harping on that.
Like I remember, like I was ina Bible study in college and I
was like why aren't we talkingabout gay people and acceptance?
And like why are we like hushedtones on this?
Like this is important andthey're like no, we don't need
to talk about that.
Okay, okay, great.
(11:02):
But I feel like with every like,every day, I'm learning and
growing and I'm changing in someway, but I'm also like the core
of who I am still stays thesame, but I just get new
knowledge and new.
It's almost like a video.
I don't play video games, butit's almost like a video game,
like as you go to differentlevels, like you get like more
(11:24):
like tokens and powers and like,so.
Like who you are at the end ofthe video game is completely
different than who you were atthe be at the beginning.
I mean, I think that's like aparallel of life, like we aren't
the person that we were when wewere, you know, 20, which I do
think is like an activeparticipant thing.
Like I think you have to choose.
Beth (11:43):
Like there are some people who I would say are stuck in
their ways, right.
Steph (11:46):
Yeah, I don't want to change yeah.
Beth (11:48):
I have encountered people like that and I don't want to be
one of those people.
Steph (11:52):
Yeah, and like I want to take in new information.
Like when the Black LivesMatter, all of that stuff was
happening, like I took that toheart and was really trying to
listen and like, okay, I wasraised to be racist, let me
understand what this means andwhy this is.
And like I'm not afraid to saythat and explore that and find
(12:12):
out this new information that Ishould have known so much
earlier.
But it doesn't matter.
Like now I'm going to learn itand that doesn't make me any
less of a person because thisreally has nothing to do with me
in the sense of I didn'tintentionally go out to harm
right, harm people.
But now that I know thisinformation, like I need to move
(12:33):
forward with it.
It's kind of like, now that Iknow I'm gay, like I was
realizing the day I was, likeI'm actually not happier knowing
I'm gay.
Like it doesn't make me like,oh my gosh, my life is now
complete that I know.
But, I also can't go backwardsand like go back to.
Well, I was never reallystraight, but like I can't go
backwards and say I'm going toknow this.
Beth (12:54):
I know this Like it just is and it's like, and I have to
progress with life with thisknowledge and and you are the
same person that you were a yearago or year and a half ago, or
two years ago.
Steph (13:06):
But I have so much more knowledge but you have more
information?
Yeah, I have so much moreinformation which helps, will
help shape the next steps.
Like and that was the samething with all of the abuse that
I realized as I got older LikeI had been abused at two, five
and 10.
And I had no knowledge of that,like mental knowledge of that,
until I was in my early 20s.
(13:26):
And then I had to work throughall of that and when I learned
that it really unlocked, like me, be able to see what my why my
childhood was the way it was andwhy I felt the way I did
because of all of this abusethat I hadn't worked through.
And again, when I learned aboutabuse it didn't make my life
happier, like that I know thatthese horrible things happened
(13:49):
to me, but I was able to movepast a lot of that stuff that
was holding me back, that didn'teven like realize was holding
me back.
Beth (13:59):
Yeah, that's the thing is, the stuff was still there.
Yeah, the stuff was still thereeven though I didn't have the
word to it, right Right, havingan awareness of the stuff didn't
make the stuff happen.
Having an awareness is whatgave you the the ability, the
power, made it possible for youto to relinquish the emotional
hold that it had on you.
Steph (14:18):
Yeah, and it's like how being gay doesn't mean I'm
happier, but it it unlocks, likeme being able to move forward
in life, like now I have, I havea direction for what life
potentially could be with apartner.
What that could look like, likemy image before was what the
(14:39):
world was showing me of a manand that didn't seem like
something I wanted or was goingto ever work out.
So I was like, okay, I'm goodbeing single, which I still am.
Okay being single, I'm not likeagainst that, but there is this
whole possibility of like, huh,I could have a life with
somebody that I love one day.
So I think the change is in thelearning and not being afraid to
(15:02):
explore these new things andalso like realizing that, like
when I learned about the abusethat was, that was bad, that was
bad stuff, but I needed to workthrough that, because bad
things happen, they happen toeverybody in different ways and
it's it's how we work throughthem that like changes us for
the better.
And it's not necessarily you'regoing to find that out right
(15:25):
away, but working through thatis ultimately like like I've
worked on that abuse so muchthat it doesn't really affect me
on a daily basis and it doesn'tlike derail the person that I
am like.
I'm happy with my life, I likewho I am and I don't live in
that like victim mentality Rightand let that like overshadow
(15:47):
what I can do in life.
Beth (15:49):
I mean based on the number of like self-help blogs and
self-help books, it seems likeAmericans at least have a desire
to be their best selves, whichwould suggest that we are in the
process of changing, improvingWell, I think the like
(16:10):
stereotype is that we want tochange and grow for the better
every day.
Steph (16:15):
I think that's like the like that's what your goal is in
life.
But I think, like there's a lotby listening to the noise of
social media and of the society.
I think that's where you, forme, I know that's where I can
get like lost in it, becausethey're telling you who you want
to be and how you want tochange in this direction, that
(16:35):
direction, and I think that canbe so overwhelming and like.
For me, it's a lot of timesit's not something intentional,
like like I didn't intentionallyseek out to explore my
sexuality.
You know that wasn't somethingbut that was circumstances of
life that presented itself and Iwasn't even really conscious of
it starting.
But when it started and I wasconscious of it, I allowed that
(16:59):
Like I didn't say, no, I'm notgoing to think about girls.
No, not at all.
Beth (17:04):
And I was like wait what is this?
Steph (17:06):
Let me explore this.
Like this is complicated andthis is weird, but like maybe
there's something here I need todig into, and so I.
That's kind of how I've seenthings in life.
I things present themselves tome and I choose to explore them.
But I don't necessarily likelisten to a self-help guru and
say, okay, I'm exploring thisbecause this person on social
(17:28):
media told me to, Right right,right, I think for me.
Beth (17:31):
I mean some of it in some ways.
You know I've already said likeI'm really glad I'm not I don't
think, put in political terms,I don't think the same way that
I thought when I was 20.
I also was a really angry momwhen my kids were toddlers and
I'm really glad I'm not stillthat way.
I am glad that I, that I wentto therapy and I'm glad that I
(17:55):
worked on the grief and the andthe fear and the, the stuff that
was waiting for me, that Ineeded to work on so that I
would not be an angry person.
That didn't present itself in ahey, let's have a moment of fun
, self-discovery kind of way.
(18:15):
It was like a rock bottommoment, you know, and I.
But I think that then somethingreally positive came out of
that rock bottom moment becauseI was able to let, I was able to
work through anger and developtools, coping mechanisms and
tools We've talked before abouta healthy toolbox, you know so
that, so that anger doesn'tcontrol me.
Steph (18:34):
Well, and you are a pastor now I am, and your kids
are out of the house.
They're.
Beth (18:40):
I guess they're grown.
I guess we could say grownright, empty nest, yeah Slothing
, they're grown.
Steph (18:44):
They're adults, but when they were younger, your first
career, would you say, was as alawyer.
Yes, so are you that girl thatwas a lawyer back in the day
Like, would you say that you'restill that?
Beth (18:59):
girl.
Yeah, in a lot of ways, I thinkI am.
I think that there were a lotof things about practicing law
that really that really workedfor me because of who I am.
You know who I was and who I am.
Steph (19:13):
What kind of things?
Beth (19:14):
I love to learn.
You know, that's always beentrue, it's still true, and and
practicing law requires a lot oflearning.
Um, I like to.
I have a.
I place a high value on the,the, the, the.
This is going to be funny nowbecause I've just flubbed it up,
but I place a high value onbeing a good communicator and
that's a big part of the lawpractice.
(19:35):
And, uh, being able to takevolumes of information and and
synthesize them down is a bigpart of what a lawyer needs to
do, and that has served me verywell and it and it.
It is like who I am, like Ilike to be a leader, I like to
be a communicator.
Like you know, that's kind ofhow I'm built.
Steph (19:54):
So well, one thing we're saying is with the new
information we change.
We can change Like with newinformation.
You decided to not be in theRepublican party anymore, but I
wonder how that works with beinga lawyer, because you're hired
for one side of a case and thenyou research the heck out of
(20:14):
that.
What if you learn newinformation that you realize
your side might be wrong?
How does that work being alawyer?
Beth (20:21):
Well, if everyone is doing their job right, then everybody
has all the same information.
If you're withholdinginformation, then you're
probably acting unethically.
Steph (20:32):
So it's how you spend the information, I guess yeah.
Beth (20:35):
So I mean, I did have cases and remember I defended
people so in civil cases, not incriminal cases, but I defended
people in cases that were justabout money and there were times
where I had to say we're goingto lose this case, we deserve to
lose this case.
Okay, hey, insurance company,if you don't want to have a jury
decide how much you're going tohave to pay, you should settle.
(20:57):
You know, you should try tonegotiate a settlement that the
other side is willing to accept.
Steph (21:03):
Did you help decide what that money would be?
How?
Beth (21:07):
much that would be.
Yes, yes, and there's.
There are a lot of researchtools available for that.
I mean every.
There's a database of juryverdicts and you can go in and
you can keyword search and see,you know.
Oh, if it's a case about a.
Steph (21:19):
So you had the power to say no, you were in.
The wrong.
Pay up yeah To your client.
Yes, wow, okay.
Beth (21:27):
Yeah, yeah, and and that's part of being their advocate is
not taking them to court andexposing them to, you know, an
potentially unlimited amount ofdamages.
You know you've got to.
You got to make sure theyunderstand what they're up
against, yeah, and what ispossible and how a jury might
(21:48):
see it or how a judge might seeit.
So do you use those tools as apastor.
Hmm, that's an interestingquestion.
I definitely use some of thethings I learned as a lawyer.
I also think sometimes some ofthe things I learned as a lawyer
get in my way and I have towork around them.
For example, when you're alawyer, you want you really
(22:09):
don't want to ask questions youdon't already know the answer to
.
Hmm, Right, so you?
So this is this.
That's why you love the podcastbecause we pre-asked we really
have the question, so you knowit's going to be asked.
And sometimes you're like,don't answer it now, answer it
on the podcast.
And I'm like, but I need toknow the answer now.
Yeah, and that's really not agreat way to approach, for
(22:30):
example, when somebody is comingin to talk about where they are
spiritually or if they need alittle bit of pastoral
counseling.
It's like you should not becoming in thinking you already
have all the answers.
You need to approach thosesituations with a sense of
curiosity, you know, and askingquestions and not knowing the
answers, and also realizing theanswers very rarely matter,
(22:52):
right, when you're a lawyer, theanswers matter, so.
So in that way some of thosethings probably get in my way.
But but if at the core of thatis a sense of being curious,
then I think I'm still the sameperson that I was.
It just presents itself indifferent ways.
You know one thing about thisidea of change and and and
(23:15):
evolution and growth if I thinkabout myself as a 20 year old
married person, like everypossibility existed ahead of me,
right, and each year there arekind of fewer possibilities.
Steph (23:31):
Yeah, I've noticed that with my niblings because they're
, all you know, under 13.
And it's it's so interesting tosee life through their eyes
because they're talking aboutwhat their futures might look
like and what they could do.
And I remember when I hear themtalk, I remember being that age
and being like you could doanything, life could be anything
.
And then now that I'm in youknow, 30s, you're in your 40s,
(23:54):
it's like that is a smallerscope, like you and you have
more knowledge of what ispossible, like as a child, just
the world is possible, I coulddo anything, I could go anywhere
.
And like also like I knowmyself better now and so like I
don't really like to travel,like you love to travel, but I
(24:14):
don't really like to travel.
I don't enjoy a lot of thepieces of travel and, like you
know, that's such a stereotypeof, or it's something that a lot
of people like to do is traveland I'm like I'm good, like I
like my house and my dog, and so, like the older I get, the more
I'm like I'm good.
(24:34):
I'll watch the YouTube video onit.
I got it, I'm good.
But I know you like travel, sothat you definitely fit that
stereotype.
Yeah.
Beth (24:43):
But the idea that, like you know, when I was, when
Steven and I were first married,and like before we had bought a
house, like it could have beenany house, or before we had kids
, our kids could have turned outto be any kind of people you
know another.
Steph (24:57):
they're kind of people.
Yeah, Now you know what theyare.
Beth (25:00):
Well, I mean, it's like, yeah, person and dog person my
children will never be, forexample, the president of the
United States.
Steph (25:08):
And you want them to be there.
Beth (25:09):
Constitutionally they can't.
Steph (25:11):
I didn't know that.
Beth (25:12):
Right yeah, that that literally is a possibility that
no longer exists.
It probably never reallyexisted.
Very few people actually growup to be president of the United
States, but so it's an extremeexample Russians are great
astronauts.
Yeah, except Peter's colorblind.
Steph (25:29):
Well, he was not going to be an astronaut.
Oh, you know that.
Beth (25:32):
It's okay.
I mean, very few people areExactly that's how we know.
Steph (25:37):
That's what I was saying.
It's like I don't think we knowany astronauts and we never
will.
I don't think I'm pretty sure.
I mean if that was a goal ofhis, I don't think it ever was.
I think it has to really be agoal and a love for you to even
like.
Pursue that and get there.
Beth (25:51):
Yes, so every year there seems to be fewer and fewer
possibilities.
Steph (25:58):
Is that sad?
Is that a sad thing, do youthink?
Is it sad that your, your scopeof life is getting smaller and
smaller?
Beth (26:06):
I think it's all in how I choose to look at it.
I think if I really saw it as anarrowing or you know that that
would feel like less than, thatlife was becoming less than.
But I don't see it that waybecause at the same time that,
like, things that were never apossibility for me are still not
a possibility for me I'm nevergoing to be an Olympic figure
skater.
I didn't even grow up with iceskates Like that was never going
(26:28):
to happen.
So it's okay with me that thatstill is never going to happen.
As I've gotten older, as I'vegotten further in my career,
like as you know, just becauseit's kind of a typical thing
that as you get older, yourfinances kind of get more secure
, it's like, oh, that opens upnew possibilities and I can lean
into those possibilities.
And then I'm not sad.
Are you?
Are you who you thought youwould be Like?
(26:50):
If you think back to when youwere in high school?
Would high school seniorStephanie recognize the person
sitting across from me?
Steph (26:59):
I think I would recognize myself, but I would be
definitely surprised in a lot ofways.
Well, first of all, there wasno YouTube back then, but I was
very much into TV production.
I mean, that was a I was doingit.
I was actually doing itprofessionally in high school
and I was on my way to major itin college.
So I don't think I would besurprised at all that I'm in
(27:22):
production in any way.
I think I would be excited tosee that I had a house.
I think I would be excited toknow that I had a dog but also
been like oh, a dog, what kindis that?
What is that?
I think I would be shocked toknow that I'm a lesbian.
Beth (27:38):
What about the fact that you've written a memoir?
What high school you'd be like?
Yeah, that tracks.
Steph (27:43):
I think high school me would be like whoa, I have to
read that.
That will be like soinformative.
And then I'd read it and I'd belike, oh, that was too much
information for right now Ihaven't lived that yet.
So I I don't think I would havebeen completely shocked that I
wrote a book, although shockedin a sense because I was
dyslexic and dyslexic and atthat time I didn't have the
(28:06):
knowledge of what was in thebook.
So I probably would have beenlike, oh, what is that about?
Right, yeah.
So I don't think I would havebeen like who is that girl?
I think I'd be pleasantlysurprised.
I'd be like cool, and I'd lookexactly like I did too, so I
would recognize myself.
I still look the same, I likewhen I was five years old.
I still look the exact same.
So, just a couple more wrinkles.
(28:28):
I earned them.
I'm fine with it.
It's cool.
But yeah, would you recognizeyourself?
Beth (28:34):
I think that high school me would be, would be happy.
I think high school me would bereally relieved.
Yeah, I had a lot of fear andanxiety about anxiety might not
be the right word I had a lot offear about is everything going
to turn out okay, which is partof what actually Made me an
angry mom, right, I mean allthat is related.
(28:55):
So I think Some, every once ina while, they'll say you know,
something will come up onFacebook or whatever, and so
somewhere on social media, belike you know what.
What are the the three or fourwords you would want to say To
your younger self and I don'teven have to think about it.
I always it's gonna be okay.
I just would want to tell myyounger self that it's gonna be
okay, you're gonna be okay.
(29:16):
Yeah, things are gonna happenand you're still gonna be okay.
Steph (29:20):
Yeah, I think I would say it's gonna be hard but you're
gonna be okay.
Yeah, like I think that's whatI would tell my high school self
, because it was after.
I mean, it was starting to gethard, but it was like that's
when I started going through allthe self-indulging, all that
stuff right after that, and so Idefinitely would be like it's
gonna be hard but it's gonna beokay.
Beth (29:40):
Yeah, it's gonna be okay.
Steph (29:42):
Well, one thing that you have experience with that I
don't yet, but something we keeptalking about is that we are
constantly changing and growing.
Well, how does that work whenyou're married to somebody?
How do you change and grow withanother person?
Beth (29:57):
I think one of the one of the most incredible truths in my
life, or one of the mostincredible gifts in my life, is
that Steven and I have grown andchanged together in ways that
are really complimentary, and Ithink that's why, all these
years later, we're still reallyhappily married, like 28 years.
Steph (30:19):
How'd you do that?
How did you make sure you weregrowing and changing in the same
way?
I?
Beth (30:23):
Think, just with communication, I think we just I
mean, we talk all the time, wemight talk more than he wants to
, and also Choosing each other.
So I can't remember if I talkedabout this Five years ago or
whatever, when we started thepodcast.
But part of our journey toadoption was a very brief spin
(30:45):
through the world of infertilityand we had this moment where it
was like, well, we are notgoing to be able to have a baby
together Biologically,biologically, so is that why
we're together?
Like, did we get married to beable to?
Reproduce by a lot, you know,and it was like, no, that's not,
(31:06):
that was not our purpose inbeing married.
And so then it kind of opened,opened us up to the realization
that we get to choose each otherevery day, like what a gift is
that?
And I Think having that, thatshared Experience and having
that shared realization has hasreally helped us a lot.
(31:27):
You know, it's like, no, Ichoose to grow with you, I
choose to, I choose to sharethis journey with you, you know.
And also he was with me whenthings got really rough and I
was really struggling with griefand really struggling with
anger.
He, you know, he was rightthere for me and I have been
there for him through similarthings.
So those, I think those sharedexperiences really help.
Steph (31:50):
Was there ever a moment when you realized that you
couldn't biologically have kids,that you thought are we really
compatible, since we can'tbiologically have children?
Beth (32:00):
No, I don't remember thinking that.
I just remember thinking moreabout Purpose, because we've
always been goal oriented, youknow, and it was like, okay,
well, we have a plan, and ourplan is that we're gonna get
we're gonna get our bachelor'sdegrees as quick as we can we're
gonna get married, we're gonnaget settled in our careers,
we're gonna get, you know, ahouse that is great, a great
(32:21):
place for kids to grow up in,and then we're gonna have our
babies Biologically yeah.
Steph (32:26):
Which is always what I always think is like Funny about
plans is like you're likewhat's your plan, what's your
five-year plan with your 10-yearplan?
Then you write it all out, yousay what it is, and then it's
kind of funny because the momentyou write it down, as the
moment, it seems like it's allgonna change.
Yeah, you know, I and I don'tknow, I kind of I don't make
(32:46):
those kind of long-term goalsBecause I'm like I have zero
idea what's gonna happen next,and that's I'm okay with that.
And I feel like if I try to putmyself in a box, it's a not
gonna happen, because somethingelse is gonna happen that I have
no idea what that is.
Now.
I mean, I'm not against goals.
Like I do make goals here andthere, but I had no idea five
(33:09):
years ago where I'd be today,like so how could I have planned
for that then?
So it's kind of funny thatyou're like we're gonna have
kids 2.4 kids, right, and youdid, though, but it was, it was
better.
Yeah, it's just chose them.
It was just you picked them up.
Beth (33:25):
Yeah, it was.
I say it all the time, but thechildren that God gave us are
better than the children wewould have made biologically,
like I just, I just see that assuch a gift and a positive way
that the plan Veered off courseor, you know, didn't come to
fruition.
I'm really thankful for it.
Steph (33:44):
It did, it did just in a way that you didn't so big
parents, yeah, so we stillremain parents.
Beth (33:51):
I remember people saying that and I thought it was weird.
But even when your children are, oh yeah.
Adults, you still are theparent, and sometimes I'm tired
of being the parent, but I do itanyway Because you know it's a
privilege.
Steph (34:07):
It switches a little bit as you get older, though, like I
do feel, like you know, my momand I work together and we see
each other every day and I feellike there's times where I'm
parenting her not in a I meanthat sounds a little too extreme
, but the Revolve, the roles canreverse in ways then then they
always were.
I mean, she still is Caring andall those things, but like
(34:30):
there's things that I will dothat, you know, like a parent
would have done for me, but sothe lines are blurred.
Beth (34:38):
Yeah, and hopefully our parents are open to Growing and
learning too, and so sometimesit can feel like that, like, oh
Well, now I, as the parent, havesomething I need to learn and I
can learn it for my kids.
Yeah, whereas I've been theteacher, you know that's been,
yeah, my role as they've beengrowing up, for sure.
Steph (34:56):
So obviously you seem like you're the kind of person
that likes to have goals andplans and structure.
I do so.
I guess my question is like Areyou still that way today, like
this year?
Are you have your goals?
You're playing your structure.
You ready to go?
You know what's happening, youknow where everything's going.
Beth (35:13):
I still want to be that person.
However, I have moreuncertainty in my life right now
that I've ever had before, andsome days that is hard and it's
because I I've been approved forordination in the United
Methodist Church and that partof that process is you agree
that you will serve in thechurch that they send you to?
(35:35):
And in my particular situation,because of the conference.
You know, I serve in theFlorida conference.
That means anywhere fromChattahoochee, florida, to Key
West, florida, and I'm notgetting Key West because my
friend Madeline is the pastorthere and she's amazing and
awesome.
There's only one.
I just got appointed there lastJuly, so I know I'm not getting
(35:55):
Key West, so it's we can govisit.
I'll go with you.
Steph (35:58):
Yes, I went in.
Beth (35:59):
November and it was amazing.
We had a great time.
If you happen to be in the KeyWest area, you should definitely
check out Key West.
You died at Beth at a church.
It's fantastic.
It's the first and only it'sthe only, yeah, the only.
Steph (36:13):
So your uncertainty is coming from the fact that you
could be appointed to a churchanywhere in Florida.
Beth (36:21):
Almost anywhere.
Yeah, almost anywhere.
Anywhere that's in the Easterntime zone.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm not incontrol of that, and oh, you
love that.
I am having a hard time withthat.
Steph (36:33):
How is your husband?
Beth (36:34):
dealing with that.
It depends on the day, okay.
Steph (36:37):
Yeah.
Beth (36:38):
But actually we have fallen back to well, remember,
when we thought that we weregonna have biological children
and we thought that it was gonnawork out a certain way and
actually the way that it workedout was better.
I mean, our lens for that isthat that was a gift from God,
and so it's like, okay, well,this too could be filled with-.
Steph (36:58):
Well, of course it's gonna be God related.
It's church, Church, God Doneyeah.
Beth (37:05):
Yeah, so I but still I mean, and there's so much head
up in that right.
I mean, when you're a pastor,the church provides your housing
.
Yeah, so we might not get topick the house we live in.
I will say gone are the days ofwhen the church used to also
provide the furniture for thehouse, because that would be
gross.
Steph (37:22):
Can't they just do stipends now?
Beth (37:23):
They do, and a lot of churches are doing that now
Instead of an actual house.
But if you ask Stephen, he'llsay Right, beth, right, you're
gonna find a house that's withinthe housing allowance.
Sure, you are Cause he teasesme a little bit about being
extra and liking things to be alittle bit extra nice or a
little bit extra big or a littlebit you know.
So I don't know.
(37:45):
I don't know what will happen.
That's the thing is, I justdon't know what will happen.
Steph (37:50):
And.
Beth (37:50):
I don't know where my kids are gonna live.
Hannah is getting ready tofinish community college, which
means it's time for her totransfer, and I don't know
exactly which city she's gonnatransfer to.
And then, if I move and shemoves, probably my son will move
too.
Like I don't know where we'regonna be living.
(38:10):
I mean, you can't see me, youguys, but my shoulders are up at
my ears Cause I'm like I don'tknow what's happening.
Yeah, but I do.
Steph (38:20):
I know that it's gonna be okay.
Yeah, you want all the answersbut you can't have them now.
And it's gonna be okay, butit's really hard to live in that
uncertainty.
Beth (38:29):
Yes, I don't like the uncertainty.
It's just like when someone isreally sick and you're waiting
on test results that's the worsttime.
Sometimes the waiting is worsethan just getting their results
and knowing.
Okay, now I have to make a planfor what's gonna happen next.
It's just the uncertainty of itis uncomfortable.
Steph (38:47):
Yes, and that is kind of crazy, because I am in that same
uncertainty because my mom hasbeen talking about wanting to
possibly move to Orlando, yeah,and to be with her grandkids,
yes, which you know, I've livedin Orlando and that was enough
for me.
So I'm in a very uncertain time.
(39:09):
Where would I move?
Is she gonna move?
What does that look like?
So I kind of have the same kindof uncertainty about like and
that's a big thing, like thesecurity of where you're going
to live, like is a big deal,like, at least it is to me, I'm
assuming it is for a lot ofpeople but like knowing where
you're gonna be and I loveTallahassee as much as, like I
(39:32):
know people might.
Beth (39:33):
Just I know, I know I love Tallahassee.
I choose Tallahassee every day.
Yes, I mean Stephen, and I havesaid that so many times because
you know, as he's built hisbusiness, he doesn't have any
clients in Tallahassee.
So this is a choice.
This is the place where we havechosen to live, and now my job
might make us move.
Steph (39:52):
Yeah, it's scary, I know, I know my job that is not
lucrative, yeah, but it's a Godgiven job and you got to listen,
yeah, yeah.
Beth (40:04):
I yeah.
And then, when everything is,you know, when I'm at my best,
I'm like, oh, I want to listen.
Yeah, I want you know, yeah.
Steph (40:10):
And I'm comfortable, I'll listen here.
I'm ready, yes, yes, but whenI'm uncomfortable, no, I don't
know what's happening.
I just make sure.
I want to know everything.
Beth (40:19):
I need to know the plans, but it's going to be okay.
Just like I would tell myselfof however many years ago.
I need to remind myself of that.
Now it's going to be okay.
Steph (40:33):
At the IndieViege episode we end with questions for
reflection.
These are questions based ontoday's show that Beth will read
and leave a little pausebetween for you to answer to
yourself, or you can find thewritten in our description.
Beth (40:44):
Number one do you believe people can change?
Have you changed?
Number two are you the sameperson you were in high school?
Would the high school versionof yourself recognize you today?
Number three if you couldforecast the next five or 10
years of your life, what changesdo you think you might see?
And number four do people holdus back from growing up?
Steph (41:09):
This has been the Discovering Our Scores podcast.
Thank you for joining us.
Beth (41:14):
Thank you.
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