Episode 10: Anthony Lince - Writing about Writing / Labor-Based Grading

Anthony Lince is a Latinx educator and scholar, and is currently a lecturer at University of California San Diego and other local institutions, teaching rhetoric and writing studies courses. His current work is focused on equitable assessment practices in higher education, which is the praxis in his courses where he utilizes labor-based grading. Anthony has published the journals California English and WPA Writing Program Administration, and has an upcoming chapter released in Effective Alternative Assessment Practices in Higher Education. 

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
Greetings and welcome to DWR discussions
on writing and rhetoric, a space forinformal conversations around research and
practice in the field at the universitylevel, a place inclusive for curious
novices, blossoming scholars, and seasonedacademics to consider and share their ink,
stories, experiences, and passionssurrounding writing and rhetoric.

(00:29):
We are your hosts, professors Megan
Falconer and Nikolas Gardiakos, withthe University of Central Florida.
Thank you for joining us.
Now let's get this conversation started.
We're joined today by Anthony Leance.
Anthony is a Latinx educator and scholar

(00:51):
and is currently a lecturer at UC SanDiego and other local community colleges
teaching rhetoric andwriting studies courses.
His current work is focused on equitableassessment practices in higher education,
which is part of the practice in hiscourses, where he utilizes labor based
grading, a method of assessment that aimsto create a positive, less anxious

(01:13):
equitable and antiracistlearning environment.
Anthony has published in the journal's
California English and WPA Writing ProgramAdministration, and has an upcoming
chapter released in Effective AlternativeAssessment Practices in Higher Education.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

(01:33):
I really appreciate it.
And like I said, I'm abig fan of the podcast.
So really happy to be here.Thank you.
So sort of a funny story and we'll lead
into how we are heretoday, the three of us.
Over break, I received an email that.
Just said, hey, I listened to the.
Podcast, I really loved it.
Can I see a copy of your syllabus?
And because I was checking the email on my

(01:54):
phone over the holiday break, I couldn'tsee anything other than your name.
It didn't say like, where it originated
from, usually with an emailthere's like or something.
Unfortunately, the state we'reliving in, I'm a little paranoid.
And so I was like, okay, I'm not sure what
this is, but I'll investigate it whenwe kind of come back from winter break.
And so I was speaking to Nick and I was

(02:16):
like, I got the oddest email anddoes this sound weird to you?
And he goes, no, I got the same email and
actually, I think you might beour next guest for the podcast.
Yeah.And so for me, I got
the same email, of course, but I had justgone through the university's
cybersecurity training and one of thethings they were like, look for emails

(02:37):
that are kind of out ofthe blue or whatever.
But I was at home, so I was able to
obviously search and confirmthat everything was good.
So my first question is, how did youhear about or come across our podcast?
Because that was really exciting.
Yeah, I posted a question onTwitter asking if any other educators had

(03:02):
any resources that they had or any ideason a writing about writing course.
That was just something that I'vebeen really interested in as of late.
Based off of Wardle's workand Downs and others.
And Dustin Edwards over from San Diego
State University, he let me know, he waslike, hey, I don't have any resources to

(03:22):
share, but there's this fantastic podcastthat you should listen to, and
specifically this episode, which I thinkit was episode seven, and I did just that.
I listened to it, and I waslike, oh, this is great.
I got a lot of useful information fromthat particular episode talking about
writing about writing, and it's importantfor students and for faculty, and then how

(03:47):
do you email over thosevery suspicious emails?
Yeah, I was wondering if because DustinEdwards obviously was
here in our department for a few years,and I was wondering I'm like San Diego.
That's got to be the connection.
But I knew you weren't at the sameinstitution.

(04:08):
You're not at the sameuniversity, or are you?
No.So he teaches now at San Diego State
University, which is where I taught for myMasters as a teaching associate, and then
I taught over there as well as adjunct orlecturer for a semester last semester.

(04:31):
So coming into Twitter, just saying, hey,I'm thinking about switching to a writing
about writing approachto teaching composition.
I mean, for those of us in composition or
those that teach writing about writing,it's like, oh, yeah, of course.
What was your approach previously and whatwas maybe making you rethink those
pedagogical decisions to how you'reapproaching eleven one or eleven two?

(04:56):
Yeah, before I've been teaching a themeapproach where my classes are focused on
thinking critically about the educationsystem or about language practices.
And there's still some of that in this new
writing about writing approachthat I'm thinking about.
But I was becoming really unsettled with

(05:20):
the writing that I was having studentsdoing and asking myself, is this
going to be helpful forthem outside of this class?
And is this going to transfer from this
writing situation toanother writing situation?
And I'm not entirely sure, but howexactly, but I stumbled upon Wardell's

(05:42):
work and specifically genres, and thatwas really influential in getting me.
And then I went down the rabbit hole ofher and dug Downs
and then Threshold Concepts as well,and just like going deep into that.
And after reading that, itall just started clicking.

(06:04):
I'm like, oh, this is why I've beenfeeling this discomfort
within my own courses, specifically asit relates to the writing assignments.
I mean, students love doing them, and I
had positive reviews from students andthings like that, but I just started to
wonder about those questions abouttransfer, about

(06:27):
are they leaving this classbetter equipped to go into the various
other discourses that they'regoing to be asked to go into.
Yeah, I love the emphasis onfostering existing literacies
that often in the writing classroomwe come up against the challenge of, oh,

(06:52):
it's a writing class, Idon't want to do writing.
I don't know how to write, or writing is
very fraught for me, or I'm justambivalent about it, whatever.
But the idea that we tap into these
literacies these students have that theydidn't even realize were an asset, and we
shine a light on them and show them howthis can help them in multiple facets of
their lives, not just inthe classroom, but out.

(07:12):
I feel like it made me drink the KoolAid, for lack of a better analogy.
Coming into learning about
teaching, writing and having theseexperiences, because it's a very different
approach than I had at my first go aroundto taking these classes 20 years ago, even
where it was we're going to read BillyBud was what I read and write a theme.

(07:38):
And that was our composition class,like, write a paper on Billy Bud.
And it's like, well, that's great ifyou're going to be an English major.
And maybe that's why I was one.
I was just programmed early.
But this idea that, no, we're always
writing, we're always communicating, andthese are literacies that you have, and
here you can take ownership ofthem and also be proud of them.

(07:59):
The fact that texting is often so frowned
upon, but it's a literacythat people have.
It's developing all these different
rhetorical awarenesses,even not knowing that they're doing them.
And then we kind of open their eyes to
them and show them how itcan work in the real life.
It's very rewarding.
And again, it's why I'm all on board.
But it's interesting to see how other

(08:19):
people in the field cometo that approach as well.
Sure.Yeah.
And I think that's really interesting,that idea of the asset based approach.
And I'm noticing it now just in my first
week of running this sort of writing aboutwriting course, where students are now
drawing onthe stuff that they are writing, the text

(08:39):
messages or social media posts, andthey're seeing the ways in which they
formatted those or they tailor those forparticular audience specific audiences.
And to me, it's just exciting.
It's like, oh, this is really cool.
Our whole core versus focus on writingas opposed to a theme and then trying to

(09:00):
fit in writing, which there's alwaysthe conflict between the two.
And I can never really make that work.
And I think probably that's why Iended up making the transition.
So you're rolling these things out thissemester right now, is that correct?
Yeah, as we speak.
Oh, that is exciting.Yeah.
So can you tell us what is the course andwhat were some of the major changes or

(09:26):
shifts that you are kind of putting inplace and kind of seeing how they're going
and kind of looking at theresponse from students?
Yeah, I guess it's like the first coursein the first year writing sequence.
So there are two for our college and it's

(09:48):
essentially one A and then one B aftertypically, we don't see the same students
again in one b unless theylook for us specifically.