May 9, 2025 • 44 mins
Sophie shares her powerful journey of surviving domestic abuse during pregnancy and the complex manipulation tactics her abuser used to maintain control.
• Met her abuser at college when she was 15 and he was 19, but didn't begin relationship until she was 23
• Reconnected through Facebook during lockdown where he used love bombing tactics to win her trust
• Relationship moved quickly from messaging to him moving into her apartment without actually being invited (cuckooing)
• Became pregnant within two weeks of him staying with her, potentially through reproductive coercion
• Experienced financial abuse when he used her cards without permission and took money for drugs
• Forced to walk three miles to work while pregnant when he would take her car
• Suffered physical violence at seven months pregnant that left her unconscious
• Faced gaslighting that made her question whether the abuse had actually happened
• Identified the cycle of abuse: tension building, incident, reconciliation, and honeymoon phase
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
are you ready?
I'm ready.
Okay, let's do the dang thing,okay.
So, sophie, first things first.
Um, I guess I would want tointroduce you to the listeners
by saying that you and I havehad a friendship for nearly a
(00:32):
year now.
You've been there sincebasically the beginning of my
journey.
We found each other onInstagram.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's like you and I just started talking via voice
messages and then it was it waslike oh my god, I love her
accent like things you say aredifferent to what I say, so we
learn different, like we dolearn yeah yeah, um, I don't
know, it's just so adorable.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I love talking to you , not just because of your
accent, but because you're asurvivor as well and we relate
to each other on on manydifferent aspects of life, and
you are here to share a littlebit about your story.
Let's walk the listener throughwhere you met, how your
(01:17):
relationship started, like howold were you?
Was there an age gap in any way?
Whatever you're comfortablewith yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Um, we met at college and he was 19 and I was 15
originally, but I didn't getwith him till I was 23 19, you
were 15 in college.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I was like I didn't.
I didn't know this about you.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, so you leave school when you're like 15, here
16, and then you go to college,and I was two months off, 16,
and he was 19.
But I met him at college butdidn't get with him until I was
23.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, so how does your school system work in the
UK?
So?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
we actually do so.
Some schools are different, but, like my schooling, schooling
was I went from four to elevenat primary school, so first
school and then from eleven tofifteen it's your second school
and then it's college.
But yeah, what I know, I know.
But do you like go ahead?
(02:20):
Yeah, but some people have itwhere they'll stay on for an
extra, like year or two, andthey call that six, four, so
that's 15 to 17.
But my school didn't do that,so I just literally was dropped
into college at 15 yeah, that issomething normal too, like
everyone, yeah, but yeah, it isin some ways.
But the thing was obviously Iwas with like him.
(02:42):
He was 19 and then I was withpeople that are like a lot
younger.
Does that make sense?
So like.
So I was like, I was like withones at my age and I was with
ones that were older.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So yeah, and where exactly are you?
Do you feel comfortable sharingwhere you're from in the UK?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
um.
So yeah, I'll say like thesouthwest, because it's like,
yeah, okay, just for anyonelistening like.
Sometimes I'm like oh I thinkthat people identify and um, I
guess a little shameless plugyes, below Bristol, so there's
like London, and then there'sbelow London, there's Bristol.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's the best way to sort of describe it okay,
yeah, well, thank you forsharing that in the UK actually,
um, they are, I guess, numberthree in my listening
demographic.
It goes, uh, the United States,thailand and then the UK.
Um, so you've got, you've gotsome survivor sisters over there
(03:41):
.
Um, I hope they are able tolike reach out to you.
We'll leave, like your hand,your social media handles, if
you're comfortable with thatlike in the show notes?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
yeah, I didn't know.
Thailand, that's reallyinteresting as well.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah um yeah, uh, bangkok actually.
Um yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
I didn't know't know that Ididn't expect it coming from the
United States.
I definitely didn't expect it,but I'm happy that I'm able to
(04:14):
reach survivors globally.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, it's amazing, it's freaking cool, it's amazing
.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Okay, so you had to go to school at 15.
You met him in college, but youdidn't get with him until he
was 23.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
No, I was 23, so he'd have been 24, 27, 28.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Okay, okay, I feel like that's kind of like a
normal age gap.
Yeah, but were you guys friendsbefore?
Like how did this?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
so, um, we were like we didn't speak all the time.
Occasionally we spoke, um, andit would be through facebook,
which is probably like the worstin some ways, social media, but
the best in other ways, if thatmakes sense.
As you know, um, you can hide alot of things.
You can be anyone on socialmedia.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's surprisingly easy to hide who you really are
in a long distance relationship,and abusers they know that when
someone isn't physically close,they only can see what you
choose to show them right.
And it's that distance thatgives abusers the time to curate
a version of themselves thatfeels romantic, attentive and
(05:27):
even safe, even when that is sofar from the truth.
This is especially dangerous tovictims that emotional intimacy
builds quickly through phonecalls, texts and video chats and
then, before you know it,you're invested in someone that
you haven't even really gottenthe chance to like quote unquote
(05:48):
know.
The space between you createsthis illusion of safety, while
behind the scenes they're busytesting your boundaries or
watching how much control theycan actually get away with.
So that's why it's so importantto pay attention to your
intuition even really early on,because if something feels off,
(06:10):
girl, you better listen.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But yeah, we like basically message still through
there, but it was very sporadicand I didn't think of that as a
bad thing.
Like I was going through stuff,I was learning.
I was obviously going throughrelationships myself, learning
to grow as a woman yourself.
And then, when I was 23, Idecided to go back on Facebook
(06:35):
because I hadn't been on it inages and I saw he had messaged
me like four or five monthsbefore and I felt really bad
because I hadn't replied.
So I replied and that is how itstarted.
Basically, yes, I was like I'msorry.
I came off Facebook and I likefelt really bad.
I just felt bad because I waslike, oh, someone must have
(06:55):
missed me.
Essentially, I felt like I wasobviously yeah, yeah, yeah, and
unfortunately I was a peoplepleaser.
I still like it, but not as badas I used to be.
Classic people pleaser.
Oh my gosh, I've done somethingbad.
I need to go and respond to it,if that makes sense, sort of
thing.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So how quickly you have told me before that your
relationship moved prettyquickly, like we really relate,
really, really yeah yeah, so, um, I obviously, like I've
processed it more since we've,like last, properly done a
podcast and stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I think more because I've listened to other survivors
, I heard the stories and stuffthat I realized what it's like,
um, but yeah, it was duringlockdown, um, I was working
crazy hours and I startedmessaging him um, constantly.
It was like constantly if I wasat work he'd be rep replying,
replying, replying.
But I didn't take that as a badthing at the time.
I was taking that as, oh, youknow, he wants to speak to me,
(07:51):
but he was finding out,basically non-intentionally, I
was giving him a Bible of what Iwanted in a relationship, but I
wasn't knowing I was doing that.
But, classic me, I sort ofstarted saying what I wanted,
what I didn't want, andobviously he took that and gave
(08:15):
me what I wanted, if that makessense, via messages.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
One of the most overlooked tactics abusers use,
especially in the beginning, issomething that I like to call
the chameleon effect.
It's where they study you, yourvalues, your insecurities, your
past, the things that you'vetold them in moments of
vulnerability, like what hurtyou, what you've always wanted,
what your ex never did for you,and then, almost instantly, they
become the person that you'vebeen searching for and it feels
(08:42):
like fate, like finally somebodygets me.
But in reality they're justmirroring you to gain your trust
and to hook you in.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I've looked back at some of the messages recently
that I actually used to save onmy phone to send to him, because
he was living in a differentcountry at the time so I had to
do time zone things.
So I used to write down amessage before I sent it to him
and I didn't realize I still hadit on my notes and I was like,
oh my gosh, I would really lovebombing.
Like really, you could tell howmuch it was from that start, if
(09:15):
that makes sense, like what Iwas saying back, but yes, I'd
like that.
And then there was bad, badpoints, but I didn't see that at
the time, if that makes sense.
So I was having alreadyjealousy.
He was in a different countryand he I remember this very
clearly that he'd messaged me tosay, um, that he was going to
(09:36):
speak to me and he didn't.
So I was like this is a bitweird.
Waited a few hours, had noreply.
So I thought, oh, I'll messagehis friend, like you know just
what you do, like you're a bitworried about someone.
Yeah, and um, he straight awaygot a reply back within 10
minutes, him saying, um, whyhave you contacted my friend?
Are you seeing him?
I was like, um, what like notnormal?
(09:57):
That was not normal in any way,shape or form, but I was again
working loads, I was doingthings, so I wasn't focused
solely on the negatives, if thatmakes sense.
And unfortunately it waslockdown, you know.
And then he came up with thewhole my ex cheated on me.
So I'm really sorry, I'mparanoid.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, everyone uses that globally.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Like everyone just uses that.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I've heard it.
Every single person says it now, every person yeah and um.
I was like oh.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I'm really sorry I know that now, but 23 year old
me was like oh gosh, she's gonethrough some stuff and I've been
through stuff.
So maybe we relate in a sort ofno, we didn't in any way kind
of like drama bonding a littlebit and I stupidly said about
(10:51):
like my past and stuff, and Ibasically gave him everything to
use against me, if that makessense and they don't forget it.
Oh no, they remember that fromlike five years ago, but they
can't remember the, you know,the basic stuff.
They do like remember thereally random stuff, don't they?
It's weird.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, these crumbs of care are part of the control
that an abuser exhibits.
They give you just enoughattention to keep you hooked and
just enough effort to make youquestion whether or not they
really meant to hurt you.
Or maybe you're just asking fortoo much.
(11:30):
That's the battle that goes onin your head.
But let's be clear Forgettingyour birthday isn't about memory
.
For them, it's about priorities, and when someone only shows up
in ways that look thoughtfulbut consistently miss what
actually matters to you, that'semotional neglect.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So, yeah, I remembered that part, but like,
yeah, then it got to.
He decided to come back to thiscountry and it literally was
within three days of him comingback here I went to meet him and
it literally was within threedays of him coming back here, I
went to meet him.
Bear in mind, I went to meethim and this is how it started
is I went and drove like an hourand a half way to go meet him
and it became I went to meet himliterally three times a week,
(12:16):
driving after work whenever.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, because you were doing the work, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, I was.
But obviously he was like ohyeah, I'm working, I'm this, I'm
that as they do, um, and yeah,and I then got a flat not long
after I already had a house andI moved and everything oh, a
flat like an apartment yeah,like an apartment.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, I was thinking a tire like you're still talking
about driving to go get himlots of different things, isn't
it okay, yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
so I had like a big house.
It was quite a big house, um,but I couldn't.
It was too overpriced.
So I got like an apartment andit was top floor, like right
right up the top, and so you hadnice views and everything
really nice.
Um, obviously meant for me.
But uh, it turned into he cameto stay um and he didn't leave,
(13:14):
as, as it happens, which iscuckooing, it's cuckooing, but I
didn't know that at the time,sort of thing.
So he came first, like onenight.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
She says cuckooing, and I 'd never really heard of
this term used in a domesticviolence context, so I had to
look it up.
And originally it's a term usedto describe when someone takes
over another person's home, butit's often used in criminal
exploitation.
But in abusive relationshipscuckooing can look like this
(13:47):
they move slowly into your lifewithout asking.
At first it could be like atoothbrush left at your place,
then clothes, then they'restaying the night, every night,
and then, before you know what'shappening, your home isn't
yours anymore.
Your safe place becomes theirterritory, and the scariest part
is that you never actually saidyes to any of it.
(14:10):
And it can feel like love atfirst, like commitment and
closeness, but what it really isis control.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Then I took him back and then it turned to he had to
move out because he couldn'tlive with this person.
But I went to collect him andit was really weird when I went
to collect him but I didn't seethe red flags.
So he was living with a friendwho was a guy.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It was a guy which, yeah but um, yeah, so that's
layered was a guy like, not aguy anymore you hear this stuff
like and people like oh yeah,it's gonna be a girl, it's gonna
be.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Do you know what I mean?
it was actually oh, okay, okayit wasn't any relationship there
, but it was really weird.
He was like quick, get my stuffin the car.
I was like what?
He was like put all my stuff inyour car quickly.
And I was like this is a bitweird.
Um, we started going.
He's like yeah, I haven't toldhim I'm leaving.
And I was like what?
(15:06):
And he was like well, I've justhad enough of living with him,
so I'm just leaving.
I was like, okay, yeah, okay.
I was like, okay, this is a bitweird.
Anyway, he came to stay with me, told me he had somewhere else
to stay and that he was going tomove in somewhere else to stay.
(15:27):
And he was going to move in, um, and within two weeks I was
pregnant.
Two weeks, two weeks, wow, wow.
So that's like three monthsfrom when he came back.
So you can see how quick, veryquick, um.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Okay, so there's a term here um in the US, or maybe
like specifically in Michigan,I don't know um, but I've heard
this term numerous times calledanchor babying um where you know
they.
They get you pregnant onpurpose to kind of like lock you
down yeah um, do you feel likethat's kind of what happened and
(16:03):
like you can?
You can skip that questionbecause I know we're being
sensitive about our children,but I understand like you get it
.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
We've both got children and we get that um and
he's the best thing.
That's like my child's the bestthing, absolutely yeah.
But yeah, it was um, and I knowit was and he'll always deny it
.
Because he got angry one dayand my child was like four
months old and he said, well, hesaid something about like my
Clue app and he was like, well,if it wasn't for that, we
(16:32):
wouldn't have our son.
And I was like, what's he onabout?
And I went through my Clue appand the day I fell pregnant was
my ovulation day and I reckonhe'd gone through my app.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So your Clue app is like your cycle tracker?
Yes, it's an app you can get.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
You might be able to get it in America.
It's amazing, really goodbecause it is quite accurate,
but it tells you when you'regoing to feel mood swings or
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And I used to really document it.
For those here in the US it's28.
I use 28.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
It's great, yeah, ignore the brand name there.
That's what it is, that's this.
That's not what I use.
Um, yeah, so um, but yeah,that's what.
I think that is insane, I know,but it's hard to tell people
that and I don't want to tellpeople that at the same time,
but I think I should.
I get it because do you knowwhat I mean?
That it's a real thing.
People that, and I don't wantto tell people that at the same
time, but I think I should.
I get it because do you knowwhat I mean?
That happens, it's a real thingand it happens to you.
(17:28):
It happens, and I've spoken topolice officers since who've
said about it and said this isso common and it's so common.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
This part gives me chills because it's something
that most people never talkabout unless they've lived it.
But some abusers will get youpregnant on purpose, and it's
not out of love, it's not out ofeven wanting a family, but they
use it as a way to trap you.
Fancy is a strategy for someabusers.
(17:58):
It's a permanent tie to thatperson, a way to make it harder
for you to leave, harder for youto rebuild and harder for you
to ever fully disconnect.
And then, if you leave, theyuse that child as a weapon to
control your schedule, yourfinances, your location and your
emotional well-being.
(18:19):
Your location and youremotional well-being.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
This is reproductive abuse and it is very real and um
, as a woman, you don't expectthat like, do you?
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
but um I know, especially as a people pleaser
too, like you want to believethe best in people.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
you, you really do, but I was like, well, I guess
this is meant to be then thatsort of thing.
But I remember going throughthose processes.
I'm pregnant, because it wasn'twhat was my intention, if that
makes sense.
I was so young and naive that Iwas like, oh, I'm going to be
30 and married and have thismagical life and have this huge
(18:58):
career before I have childrenand it sort of changed the whole
perspective.
But for me, I've had the bestpossible outcome from having my
child.
Do you know what I mean?
I wouldn't be who I am, Iwouldn't be able to be here.
But yeah, that definitelyhappened.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I agree, my, my son.
My son keeps me grounded and Ilearn something new from him.
I swear every single day andI'm a better person because of
him for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Unfortunately, you've gone through the bad stuff, but
you've got the best possiblething.
It's like a little gift thatsounds really horrible but I
think it is.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
No, I love that.
I love that.
Okay, so walk me through.
When you found out you werepregnant, did you get support
from him or from his family, orhow was that?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
We'll get to that.
But no, I remember I found out,I did the test and I was like
maybe it's wrong, maybe it'swrong.
So I went on voice note to myfriend and I walked up the road
and I said to her I'm pregnant.
I was like, what am I evensaying?
Like, what am I saying?
And her conversation with mewas like, are you going to get
(20:11):
rid of it?
Like, literally, because youknow, this is all really fast
and weird and not normal.
And it felt like it was for mebecause it was, um, it didn't
feel right, um, I didn't think Icould have another, like, have
a child, like that andeverything else, um.
But yeah, I then took apregnancy test the next day, um,
(20:32):
a proper one, because I didn'ttrust it, um, and I remember
going in to get one and I feltreally nervous and the woman
looking at me like you haven'tplanned that, you haven't
planned that, and I could see itin her eyes and I was like, oh
gosh, just give me the thing Iwant to get out of here.
Um, and uh, he actually sworeand went F, you've ruined my
(20:53):
life.
And I was like what?
What?
Yeah, um.
But it was like two weeks afterI got pregnant and, um, I
thought that it's like, oh, hedoesn't want me to have a baby,
you know sort of thing.
So in my mind for the next weekI started processing I'm gonna
have to have an abortion, I'mgonna.
You know, that's, that's whatmy process went to, um, which
(21:14):
I'm very grateful.
In the UK we have that still,but you know.
I'm not happy about where it,where it is in the rest of the
world.
But that was what my processwas.
Yeah, but I decided to keep himand, like, I obviously decided
to keep baby, and I told him Iwas and everything else, and he
said, oh yeah, we'll be fine andeverything else, and he started
being all like supportive inthat way.
Yeah, but there was a part ofme that always went back to the
(21:36):
way he reacted.
That was like what.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I was like what you know what I mean.
I mean it doesn't.
It doesn't matter how much lovebombing they do.
After the fact, those negativethings really do sit with you
for a very long time, like evenlong into survivorship, like,
yeah, those things are stains onyour perception of yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, definitely, and it definitely it changed how my
perspective was for mypregnancy as well.
Like, do you know what I mean?
I felt like I was going to be,like I didn't know I was going
to be alone, but I felt veryalone in that moment because I,
the one person who you'd expectto be like oh my, you've seen
those videos online wherethey're like, oh, my goodness,
(22:22):
we can have a baby and you'relike saying this to the person
like I'm pregnant and thereaction is, if you've ruined my
life is like all right, thanksright, because you played a like
you were 50% of that you know,and then like yeah, um.
So yeah, it was like a bit bitof it's something that always I
(22:43):
remember, if that makes it rightyou said you always go back to
non-intentional, but you doright?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
um, yeah, so I know that, statistically, the abuse
normally will start to ramp upduring pregnancy.
Is that something that youexperienced as well?
Yeah, this part is difficultfor me to speak on.
I've been stumbling over mywords so I'm going to try to
slow down so I can convey thisto you correctly.
(23:12):
But for many women many womenpregnancy is not a time of
celebration.
It becomes a literal war zone,and that's because one in six
women say that their abuse beganfor the first time ever during
their pregnancy, and for many,if they were already
(23:34):
experiencing abuse before theygot pregnant.
It escalates a lot of the times, especially so in the second
and third trimester, and evenaccording to the CDC, homicide
is one of the leading causes ofdeath for pregnant and
postpartum women here in the US,and it's most often at the
(23:59):
hands of a current or formerpartner.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
So it started off with, obviously, and I was there
panicking now because I'm thesole earner, I'm the one that's
working all these crazy hours.
I had that two weeks off and Iended up getting pregnant in two
weeks and I'm like, ah, and Iremember him.
He'd already done this, but hehad used my card to buy my own
(24:28):
birthday presents with it, withthe condition he was going to
pay me back.
Right, don't look at me likethat I wasn't looking at you.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think that was.
I was just like oh gosh, I know, and it wasn't you at you, I
think that was.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I was just like oh gosh, I know, it wasn't you,
it's him it's just like I know alot of the times when I listen
to everyone's stories, like thefire that I feel in my gut, yeah
, oh, but it started like withthat and then, unfortunately, he
was addicted to weed and he'duse my card and, without my
(25:04):
knowledge, sometimes had takenthe money out and it would be 50
quid at a time.
It's not like a little bit, itwas 50 quid, that's like a lot
of money.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That's $50 over there , isn't it Like yeah, yeah, a
lot of money, in case you wereinterested, like like me, to
know what the conversion is froma quid to at least a US dollar.
It's about 66 to 67 dollarsthat he was taking out of her
account at a time.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It's not a little bit , it's not like you know, tiny
little like cents you'd call itthat like it's not that, it's
like a huge amount and I'm andI'm there, obviously working and
not knowing this is all kind ofhappening.
So it gets to the January um.
So like I'm about two monthspregnant and I decide to leave
um, like my job, and get adifferent job.
(25:52):
So I get a different job, whichis less money, but it means
like I'll be more stressless,everything else.
He's there, like, bear in mind,promising me he's going to get
this job.
He's going to get this job andit gets to.
He's going to start this joband I have to pay for him to do
the training, for the course forhim to do this job.
And I did.
I know, I know it's stupid,whatever else, but it went from
(26:14):
that to everything that hewanted.
I was the one that was meant toprovide it.
If he didn't have money, if heneeded it, I was the one, if
that makes sense.
It was like my money was not mymoney, um, but this money was
like I wasn't noticing itbecause he was using my other
card, so I had loads.
I didn't have loads of cards,but I had, like my main debit I
(26:35):
think that's what you call itthere like your main card, and
then obviously I had savings andyeah, I was panicking, because
pregnant is not the bestsituation anyway, but all of
this, he got a job.
And then it got to.
He needed my car to go to workand he'd take my car without my
(26:58):
permission sometimes, or he'dmake me walk three miles to work
and three miles back.
He made you walk when you werepregnant yeah, and this is like
five o'clock in the morning, Ihad to walk through a town, yeah
, and it gets scarier because Ilike, when I'm about five months
pregnant, um, I had walked.
This doesn't normally happen inthe UK.
I had walked, um, it was caughton CCTV.
(27:18):
I had walked one minute beforesomeone had driven a car for a
department store and I walkedone minute before that.
Well, I was pregnant.
Past that shot, I know, I know,like I have, I have goosebumps
right now.
That is insane, I know and I waslike, but he didn't bat an
(27:39):
eyelid when I told him that Iwas like, like that could have
been me, her or you know, andI'm, and I'm like what?
This is weird at this pointlike there's lots of stuff like
that that I look back and I'mlike that's not how a normal
relationship is.
That's not normal.
I've never like any other manor partner wouldn't want their
pregnant partner to go through atown three miles, three miles
(28:02):
back.
And it wasn't just that I wascarrying shopping, like big bags
of shopping, sometimes backbecause he wouldn't let me have
my car.
So I'm carrying all this stuffback.
It's crazy.
It was crazy to look back on.
But he then started down thejealousy route then as well,
because one of my managersoffered to drop me home.
He saw what I was doing,obviously completely appalled,
(28:22):
and he lived around the cornerfrom me and I was like, oh, it's
okay, thank you.
And I went and told him becauseyou know, you do tell your
partner, and he's like well, areyou seeing him?
And I was like what?
And then he went is that mychild?
And I was like, are you beingfor real?
Like, bear in mind, I didn'tknow this person at this point.
Wow, I know, but there's stufflike that that looking back, I
(28:45):
didn't see it.
I didn't see those sort ofthings, because it's Rosie, like
the tintedness, you get likeone minute happiness.
You know what I mean.
You know what the cycle's like,the cycle of abuse.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Exactly.
Okay, stick with me herebecause I am going to explain to
you what the cycle of abuselooks like.
A lot of the times there arevictims who don't really know or
realize that they're caught inthis cycle, so maybe this will
help you identify something inyour own relationship.
So the cycle of abuse it hasfour stages.
(29:20):
Number one is tension building,and this is when things really
start to feel off Like yourabuser may become irritable,
controlling, critical.
You're walking on eggshells,you're trying to prevent the
next blow up.
And then number two is theincident.
This is the explosion, theverbal, emotional, physical or
even sexual abuse.
It may be screaming, it couldbe hitting, it could be threats,
(29:43):
accusations, even forced sex,and this is the moment that your
body will go into survival mode.
Then they switch up on you andthey go into stage three of the
cycle, which is reconciliation.
This is the apology, the tearsI'm going to get help.
You know I didn't mean it, it'sjust because I love you so much
(30:05):
.
They may cry, promise change,shower you with affections, and
you believe it because you wantto believe it.
And then you move into numberfour, the honeymoon stage, and
this is the calm, like you startto talk to yourself and say,
maybe things are good again,like they're really good,
(30:25):
they're being attentive rightnow, they're sweet, they're
everything that they were in thevery beginning of your
relationship, and you think, oh,maybe it's really going to be
different this time and you holdon to like that hope and those
little crumbs of love thatthey're giving to you during
this time.
And you hold on to like thathope and those little crumbs of
love that they're giving to youduring this time.
But then the tension starts tobuild again and the cycle
(30:47):
repeats and over time thishoneymoon phase actually shrinks
until eventually there is nocalm, it's just chaos.
But by then you're so in it,you're emotionally worn down,
you're confused, you're isolatedand you're unsure of how you
can escape.
It is designed to keep youstuck and you become addicted to
(31:10):
it.
Oh yeah, when you're happy withthe little morsels of love or
gratitude or passion or whateverthat they show you that you're
like oh okay, like I got someand it's like a dopamine hit.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, and then you just, you know, repeat the cycle
, because you're just constantlywaiting for them to show you
that you're worth it to them andalso for me, I felt like,
because I'd known him so long, Ifelt like I lost a friend, like
every time, like do you knowwhat I mean when you're like
pulling away?
You're like, oh, but they'rekind of a friend at times, but
(31:47):
they're not.
They're like they've completelymirrored you, to the point that
they know what's your tickpoints.
It's like having a board withoh, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick
.
They've learned it and it'scrazy.
But you don't want that to bethe fact, because you fall in
love with this person or you're.
It may not even be a romanticpartner.
It might be, you know, as we'veseen, like fathers, you know
(32:08):
mothers, whatever else.
You want that person to be apart of your life, because you
do, and that's fair enough.
But they're not worth it, ifthat makes sense, because you're
worth so much more.
But you won't see that untilthe end.
And that's the hardest part Ithink for me was realizing I'm
worth more than questioningmyself and being like this.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So yeah, I think it was Savannah last season told me
that when she looks back atwhen she finally walked away, it
was that she decided to loveherself just 1% more.
Oh just 1% more, and that 1% iswhat made the difference for
(32:50):
her.
Oh that's a really cute saying.
I really, I know, I reallyloved that.
Go Savannah, go Savannah,that's really nice.
Oh, that's nice, I like that.
Um, so, how?
How did things escalate from it?
There was jealousy.
There was, you know, a littlebit of isolation, because you
(33:12):
know he's taking your car.
You can't go anywhere there was, I'm hearing so far, financial
abuse.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
For sure, then it was making melate for midwife appointments.
I was always late and theynever picked up on it.
I think they thought this wasme at this point.
But I remember this time thatI'm like we need to go and he's
there, like I need to gel myhair, I'm like I need to go to
an appointment, and in the endwe obviously went to the
(33:41):
appointments and stuff and hedid come with me, which was nice
, but some of them he didn'tbecause of working, which I
don't know whether he was or not, do you know what I mean?
But yeah, yeah, so that thatthat's what sort of happened
then.
Um, and then then it was Iwanted to move to a bigger house
, obviously, because I'm livingat the point in a top floor
apartment one bedroom, by theway, so it's like small um, and
(34:06):
it actually said on my likeagreement, I guess, like do you
have like an agreement, likewhen you sign for a place, like
an agreement?
Yeah, like a lease.
We can't, yeah, yeah and it saidno children allowed to be in
this building.
So I'm like, oh god, I reallyneed to move because I don't
want to be kicked out and behomeless with a baby.
I'm like thinking in my mind,I'm thinking, the day I come
(34:28):
home with this baby, it's gonnabe taken like I'm gonna have to
go somewhere.
You know what I mean, becauseyou want that security.
So I'm like looking for housesand everything else and I found
this house and this was the weekbefore I had my son.
So I had a week off formaternity and I actually had him
early and I think it's becauseI did so much, I was doing so
(34:48):
much by myself, but I didn'tnotice.
It Is I had.
I literally went, went.
I literally went on a busbecause he took my car and it
was a two-hour bus journey andit was like the hottest week.
It was 32 degrees on this bus,bear in mind.
I had no water with me.
I was like feeling like I wasgonna pass out.
I got off the bus, my mum cameand found me, luckily, and I
(35:10):
went to see this whole house bymyself and, um, I didn't get it
but like he didn't, like hedidn't want to be there sort of
thing.
It felt very much like he wasthere for the show or for
telling people, but but when itcame to actual things he wasn't
there like the things you needed, like a support system, if that
makes sense for an abuser image.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Everything.
As long as the world will seethem as kind and caring, it
becomes so much easier togaslight you into silence, and
that's because they may show upto your doctor's appointments,
rub your back in public, crackjokes with your friends and even
compliment you in front of yourfamily and these people,
because this is what they'reshown.
(35:54):
They eat it up and they'll saythings this is what they're
shown.
They eat it up and they'll saythings like oh, you're so lucky,
he's such a great guy.
And that's because what theydon't see is that other version
of him, the one that comes outwhen you two are alone, the one
that comes out behind closeddoors.
They use that publicperformance to make sure that no
(36:15):
one believes you, the victim,when you finally decide to speak
up.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, but I've skipped a whole part there
because at seven months pregnanthe hurt me for the first time.
But I didn't believe that, ifthat makes sense, because I was
love-bombed and didn't believeit happened.
So, yeah, it's, it's crazy.
Well, do you feel comfortabletalking?
about what happened about itabsolutely because it's a.
It's quite common in pregnancy,um, I've spoken to a few people
(36:45):
that have had it since.
So it's quite normal.
Not normal, but in in terms ofabuse statistically, yeah, um,
but yeah, I was seven monthspregnant.
I had done a 12 hour shift, Ithink it's something like that
crazy.
Um, and I come home and Ithought, oh, he's gonna come and
kiss me because he came towardsme and he I remember him
(37:05):
grabbing me by the neck andpushing me into the door.
I was like okay, and then hetwisted me around and hit my
head on the headboard and that'sall I remember.
But like, I didn't know if thiswas like me thinking it or not.
Do you know what I mean?
But I woke up and it had beenlike two or three hours.
I must have literally beenpassed out for two or three
hours.
(37:26):
And he come into the bedroom.
He's like hey, I've made dinner.
And I'm like what?
And he's like I've made dinnerand I like what.
And he's like I've made dinnerand I'm there like what the hell
just happened?
Like I'm still in my workuniform at this point.
I'm like what happened?
He was like oh, you fell asleepand I'm like I'm pretty sure
that didn't just happen, like I.
Like I was so gaslit at thispoint that I was like I don't
(37:48):
think it's happened, but Iwanted to prove to myself in the
future that I that that didn'thappen right, so it gets even
more insane.
He then goes I think we need togo out for a drive and I'm
thinking what the hell'shappening and he goes and takes
me for a drive two hours away,not like a little drive, a
two-hour drive and he's likethis is the same night, same
night, like after okay, so thisis like now at probably nine or
(38:11):
ten at night.
He's like.
So he's like oh, yeah, we're gofor a drive.
We went for a barbecue in themiddle of nowhere, which was
really weird, after he made food.
Yeah, it's just weird.
This is what was weird.
I can't even remember what itwas, but yeah, but I took a
picture of myself deliberatelyand I've told people before and
they're like oh, but there's noproof that he did anything.
I took it because I didn't knowif it was some weird dream or
(38:34):
if it happened, because it wasso gaslighting.
Do you know what I mean?
Did that happen?
But it did.
It definitely did.
I just couldn't believe it andI didn't want to believe it.
You don't want to believe it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
No, you really don't.
And it's kind of like,especially in situations like
that, because I also I know thatI've never told my story and
I've been asked to tell my story, but, um, just a side note, I'm
working on remembering it.
So, like you, there are thingsthat are so hazy and fuzzy that
I'm like did that really, didthat really happen?
(39:08):
Um, and I think it's justeasier to say oh, no, it didn't.
It's easier to gaslightyourself yeah into yeah, and I
think it's just easier to say oh, no, it didn't.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
It's easier to gaslight yourself into yeah, and
I think for me my brain's like,yeah, you've had so much trauma
.
Just put that in a little box,leave it in a box, then we'll
come back to it in about 10years' time.
In the most random place You'llbe like, oh yeah, that happened
.
That seems to happen with me.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I'll be like somewhere, like a supermarket,
like, oh yeah, that happened tome as well, didn't it?
Yes, and why does it come backat at the worst times?
And I feel like we're talkingabout PTSD?
Because the further away thatyou remove yourself from your
abuse, the safer you are goingto feel on your healing journey,
and then your brain is going tolet you start remembering
things, which is what I'm goingthrough right now.
Yeah and um, it's always soinconvenient because you're like
(40:02):
I want to put the pieces of myown puzzle together, but, yeah,
not right now it's never likewhen you're just about to like
calm down.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
it's like you're in the middle of something.
You're like, really right nowI've come to a realization.
I don't want to process this,but it's right now.
Okay, let's deal with this,apparently, but brain wants me
to.
So, yeah, it's a hard one withthat one, but yeah, so, yeah,
that's what happened duringpregnancy.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
He made her dinner, he took her to a barbecue, he
smiled, he laughed, he playedthe role of a loving boyfriend,
like he hadn't just tried tounalive her.
This is not just manipulation.
This is psychological warfare,because when an abuser flips the
(40:50):
switch that fast fromlife-threatening violence to
bliss, it messes with yourreality.
You start to wonder did thatreally happen?
Was it that bad?
If he's acting normal now,maybe I'm the one that's
overreacting.
You were just violently hurtand then somebody asked you to
(41:11):
pretend as if it never happened.
This is a form of gaslightingand it's designed to keep you
silent and confused.
The best example I can think ofthis is in the movie.
It Ends With Us when Lily ispushed down the stairs by Ryle.
(41:33):
She wakes up after the fact,disoriented, wondering what
really happened, and Ryle islike you fell, you fell and what
really?
What you think you rememberhappening didn't really happen.
Believe me, because I'm the onethat is telling the truth.
I'm the one that didn't passout.
I remember right.
This is abuse.
(41:59):
Sitting here with Sophie's storyhas me feeling this fire in my
soul.
I'm angry for her.
I'm angry for all of us thathave to deal.
I'm angry for all of us thathave to deal with abuse, and if
you're like me and this episodehas brought up something for you
(42:20):
, please take care of yourself,whether that means reaching out
to a friend or being by yourselfin some stillness, taking a
walk in nature, journaling Justremember that you deserve that
care.
Okay, capisce, signaling.
(42:41):
Just remember that you deservethat care.
Okay, capisce.
I also want to correct myself,because I think Sophie and I
originally interviewed back inFebruary and I had said, oh,
I've never told my story.
I have.
Now we've.
We've got over that hump formyself.
If you're interested in hearingmy own personal story, it is the
past two episodes on thispodcast.
It's part one and part two.
(43:02):
Thug it out and, girl, you gotto go.
And if you're ready to shareyour story, my inbox is open
DismissTrueStories atTheSurvivorSisterhoodcom.
Dismisstruestories atTheSurvivorSisterhoodcom.
If you're ready to share yourtruth, I'd be honored to help
you tell it in your own words.
(43:22):
Part 2 of Sophie's story iscoming this following Friday,
and thank you so much forlistening to Dismiss True
Stories.
Until next time, keep healing,keep speaking and remember the
world is a better place becauseyou are in it.
are you ready?
I'm ready.
Okay, let's do the dang thing,okay.
So, sophie, first things first.
Um, I guess I would want tointroduce you to the listeners
by saying that you and I havehad a friendship for nearly a
(00:32):
year now.
You've been there sincebasically the beginning of my
journey.
We found each other onInstagram.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's like you and I just started talking via voice
messages and then it was it waslike oh my god, I love her
accent like things you say aredifferent to what I say, so we
learn different, like we dolearn yeah yeah, um, I don't
know, it's just so adorable.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I love talking to you , not just because of your
accent, but because you're asurvivor as well and we relate
to each other on on manydifferent aspects of life, and
you are here to share a littlebit about your story.
Let's walk the listener throughwhere you met, how your
(01:17):
relationship started, like howold were you?
Was there an age gap in any way?
Whatever you're comfortablewith yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Um, we met at college and he was 19 and I was 15
originally, but I didn't getwith him till I was 23 19, you
were 15 in college.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I was like I didn't.
I didn't know this about you.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, so you leave school when you're like 15, here
16, and then you go to college,and I was two months off, 16,
and he was 19.
But I met him at college butdidn't get with him until I was
23.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, so how does your school system work in the
UK?
So?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
we actually do so.
Some schools are different, but, like my schooling, schooling
was I went from four to elevenat primary school, so first
school and then from eleven tofifteen it's your second school
and then it's college.
But yeah, what I know, I know.
But do you like go ahead?
(02:20):
Yeah, but some people have itwhere they'll stay on for an
extra, like year or two, andthey call that six, four, so
that's 15 to 17.
But my school didn't do that,so I just literally was dropped
into college at 15 yeah, that issomething normal too, like
everyone, yeah, but yeah, it isin some ways.
But the thing was obviously Iwas with like him.
(02:42):
He was 19 and then I was withpeople that are like a lot
younger.
Does that make sense?
So like.
So I was like, I was like withones at my age and I was with
ones that were older.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So yeah, and where exactly are you?
Do you feel comfortable sharingwhere you're from in the UK?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
um.
So yeah, I'll say like thesouthwest, because it's like,
yeah, okay, just for anyonelistening like.
Sometimes I'm like oh I thinkthat people identify and um, I
guess a little shameless plugyes, below Bristol, so there's
like London, and then there'sbelow London, there's Bristol.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's the best way to sort of describe it okay,
yeah, well, thank you forsharing that in the UK actually,
um, they are, I guess, numberthree in my listening
demographic.
It goes, uh, the United States,thailand and then the UK.
Um, so you've got, you've gotsome survivor sisters over there
(03:41):
.
Um, I hope they are able tolike reach out to you.
We'll leave, like your hand,your social media handles, if
you're comfortable with thatlike in the show notes?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
yeah, I didn't know.
Thailand, that's reallyinteresting as well.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah um yeah, uh, bangkok actually.
Um yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
I didn't know't know that Ididn't expect it coming from the
United States.
I definitely didn't expect it,but I'm happy that I'm able to
(04:14):
reach survivors globally.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, it's amazing, it's freaking cool, it's amazing
.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Okay, so you had to go to school at 15.
You met him in college, but youdidn't get with him until he
was 23.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
No, I was 23, so he'd have been 24, 27, 28.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Okay, okay, I feel like that's kind of like a
normal age gap.
Yeah, but were you guys friendsbefore?
Like how did this?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
so, um, we were like we didn't speak all the time.
Occasionally we spoke, um, andit would be through facebook,
which is probably like the worstin some ways, social media, but
the best in other ways, if thatmakes sense.
As you know, um, you can hide alot of things.
You can be anyone on socialmedia.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's surprisingly easy to hide who you really are
in a long distance relationship,and abusers they know that when
someone isn't physically close,they only can see what you
choose to show them right.
And it's that distance thatgives abusers the time to curate
a version of themselves thatfeels romantic, attentive and
(05:27):
even safe, even when that is sofar from the truth.
This is especially dangerous tovictims that emotional intimacy
builds quickly through phonecalls, texts and video chats and
then, before you know it,you're invested in someone that
you haven't even really gottenthe chance to like quote unquote
(05:48):
know.
The space between you createsthis illusion of safety, while
behind the scenes they're busytesting your boundaries or
watching how much control theycan actually get away with.
So that's why it's so importantto pay attention to your
intuition even really early on,because if something feels off,
(06:10):
girl, you better listen.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But yeah, we like basically message still through
there, but it was very sporadicand I didn't think of that as a
bad thing.
Like I was going through stuff,I was learning.
I was obviously going throughrelationships myself, learning
to grow as a woman yourself.
And then, when I was 23, Idecided to go back on Facebook
(06:35):
because I hadn't been on it inages and I saw he had messaged
me like four or five monthsbefore and I felt really bad
because I hadn't replied.
So I replied and that is how itstarted.
Basically, yes, I was like I'msorry.
I came off Facebook and I likefelt really bad.
I just felt bad because I waslike, oh, someone must have
(06:55):
missed me.
Essentially, I felt like I wasobviously yeah, yeah, yeah, and
unfortunately I was a peoplepleaser.
I still like it, but not as badas I used to be.
Classic people pleaser.
Oh my gosh, I've done somethingbad.
I need to go and respond to it,if that makes sense, sort of
thing.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So how quickly you have told me before that your
relationship moved prettyquickly, like we really relate,
really, really yeah yeah, so, um, I obviously, like I've
processed it more since we've,like last, properly done a
podcast and stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I think more because I've listened to other survivors
, I heard the stories and stuffthat I realized what it's like,
um, but yeah, it was duringlockdown, um, I was working
crazy hours and I startedmessaging him um, constantly.
It was like constantly if I wasat work he'd be rep replying,
replying, replying.
But I didn't take that as a badthing at the time.
I was taking that as, oh, youknow, he wants to speak to me,
(07:51):
but he was finding out,basically non-intentionally, I
was giving him a Bible of what Iwanted in a relationship, but I
wasn't knowing I was doing that.
But, classic me, I sort ofstarted saying what I wanted,
what I didn't want, andobviously he took that and gave
(08:15):
me what I wanted, if that makessense, via messages.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
One of the most overlooked tactics abusers use,
especially in the beginning, issomething that I like to call
the chameleon effect.
It's where they study you, yourvalues, your insecurities, your
past, the things that you'vetold them in moments of
vulnerability, like what hurtyou, what you've always wanted,
what your ex never did for you,and then, almost instantly, they
become the person that you'vebeen searching for and it feels
(08:42):
like fate, like finally somebodygets me.
But in reality they're justmirroring you to gain your trust
and to hook you in.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I've looked back at some of the messages recently
that I actually used to save onmy phone to send to him, because
he was living in a differentcountry at the time so I had to
do time zone things.
So I used to write down amessage before I sent it to him
and I didn't realize I still hadit on my notes and I was like,
oh my gosh, I would really lovebombing.
Like really, you could tell howmuch it was from that start, if
(09:15):
that makes sense, like what Iwas saying back, but yes, I'd
like that.
And then there was bad, badpoints, but I didn't see that at
the time, if that makes sense.
So I was having alreadyjealousy.
He was in a different countryand he I remember this very
clearly that he'd messaged me tosay, um, that he was going to
(09:36):
speak to me and he didn't.
So I was like this is a bitweird.
Waited a few hours, had noreply.
So I thought, oh, I'll messagehis friend, like you know just
what you do, like you're a bitworried about someone.
Yeah, and um, he straight awaygot a reply back within 10
minutes, him saying, um, whyhave you contacted my friend?
Are you seeing him?
I was like, um, what like notnormal?
(09:57):
That was not normal in any way,shape or form, but I was again
working loads, I was doingthings, so I wasn't focused
solely on the negatives, if thatmakes sense.
And unfortunately it waslockdown, you know.
And then he came up with thewhole my ex cheated on me.
So I'm really sorry, I'mparanoid.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, everyone uses that globally.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Like everyone just uses that.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I've heard it.
Every single person says it now, every person yeah and um.
I was like oh.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I'm really sorry I know that now, but 23 year old
me was like oh gosh, she's gonethrough some stuff and I've been
through stuff.
So maybe we relate in a sort ofno, we didn't in any way kind
of like drama bonding a littlebit and I stupidly said about
(10:51):
like my past and stuff, and Ibasically gave him everything to
use against me, if that makessense and they don't forget it.
Oh no, they remember that fromlike five years ago, but they
can't remember the, you know,the basic stuff.
They do like remember thereally random stuff, don't they?
It's weird.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, these crumbs of care are part of the control
that an abuser exhibits.
They give you just enoughattention to keep you hooked and
just enough effort to make youquestion whether or not they
really meant to hurt you.
Or maybe you're just asking fortoo much.
(11:30):
That's the battle that goes onin your head.
But let's be clear Forgettingyour birthday isn't about memory
.
For them, it's about priorities, and when someone only shows up
in ways that look thoughtfulbut consistently miss what
actually matters to you, that'semotional neglect.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So, yeah, I remembered that part, but like,
yeah, then it got to.
He decided to come back to thiscountry and it literally was
within three days of him comingback here I went to meet him and
it literally was within threedays of him coming back here, I
went to meet him.
Bear in mind, I went to meethim and this is how it started
is I went and drove like an hourand a half way to go meet him
and it became I went to meet himliterally three times a week,
(12:16):
driving after work whenever.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, because you were doing the work, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, I was.
But obviously he was like ohyeah, I'm working, I'm this, I'm
that as they do, um, and yeah,and I then got a flat not long
after I already had a house andI moved and everything oh, a
flat like an apartment yeah,like an apartment.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, I was thinking a tire like you're still talking
about driving to go get himlots of different things, isn't
it okay, yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
so I had like a big house.
It was quite a big house, um,but I couldn't.
It was too overpriced.
So I got like an apartment andit was top floor, like right
right up the top, and so you hadnice views and everything
really nice.
Um, obviously meant for me.
But uh, it turned into he cameto stay um and he didn't leave,
(13:14):
as, as it happens, which iscuckooing, it's cuckooing, but I
didn't know that at the time,sort of thing.
So he came first, like onenight.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
She says cuckooing, and I 'd never really heard of
this term used in a domesticviolence context, so I had to
look it up.
And originally it's a term usedto describe when someone takes
over another person's home, butit's often used in criminal
exploitation.
But in abusive relationshipscuckooing can look like this
(13:47):
they move slowly into your lifewithout asking.
At first it could be like atoothbrush left at your place,
then clothes, then they'restaying the night, every night,
and then, before you know what'shappening, your home isn't
yours anymore.
Your safe place becomes theirterritory, and the scariest part
is that you never actually saidyes to any of it.
(14:10):
And it can feel like love atfirst, like commitment and
closeness, but what it really isis control.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Then I took him back and then it turned to he had to
move out because he couldn'tlive with this person.
But I went to collect him andit was really weird when I went
to collect him but I didn't seethe red flags.
So he was living with a friendwho was a guy.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It was a guy which, yeah but um, yeah, so that's
layered was a guy like, not aguy anymore you hear this stuff
like and people like oh yeah,it's gonna be a girl, it's gonna
be.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Do you know what I mean?
it was actually oh, okay, okayit wasn't any relationship there
, but it was really weird.
He was like quick, get my stuffin the car.
I was like what?
He was like put all my stuff inyour car quickly.
And I was like this is a bitweird.
Um, we started going.
He's like yeah, I haven't toldhim I'm leaving.
And I was like what?
(15:06):
And he was like well, I've justhad enough of living with him,
so I'm just leaving.
I was like, okay, yeah, okay.
I was like, okay, this is a bitweird.
Anyway, he came to stay with me, told me he had somewhere else
to stay and that he was going tomove in somewhere else to stay.
(15:27):
And he was going to move in, um, and within two weeks I was
pregnant.
Two weeks, two weeks, wow, wow.
So that's like three monthsfrom when he came back.
So you can see how quick, veryquick, um.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Okay, so there's a term here um in the US, or maybe
like specifically in Michigan,I don't know um, but I've heard
this term numerous times calledanchor babying um where you know
they.
They get you pregnant onpurpose to kind of like lock you
down yeah um, do you feel likethat's kind of what happened and
(16:03):
like you can?
You can skip that questionbecause I know we're being
sensitive about our children,but I understand like you get it
.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
We've both got children and we get that um and
he's the best thing.
That's like my child's the bestthing, absolutely yeah.
But yeah, it was um, and I knowit was and he'll always deny it
.
Because he got angry one dayand my child was like four
months old and he said, well, hesaid something about like my
Clue app and he was like, well,if it wasn't for that, we
(16:32):
wouldn't have our son.
And I was like, what's he onabout?
And I went through my Clue appand the day I fell pregnant was
my ovulation day and I reckonhe'd gone through my app.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So your Clue app is like your cycle tracker?
Yes, it's an app you can get.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
You might be able to get it in America.
It's amazing, really goodbecause it is quite accurate,
but it tells you when you'regoing to feel mood swings or
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And I used to really document it.
For those here in the US it's28.
I use 28.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
It's great, yeah, ignore the brand name there.
That's what it is, that's this.
That's not what I use.
Um, yeah, so um, but yeah,that's what.
I think that is insane, I know,but it's hard to tell people
that and I don't want to tellpeople that at the same time,
but I think I should.
I get it because do you knowwhat I mean?
That it's a real thing.
People that, and I don't wantto tell people that at the same
time, but I think I should.
I get it because do you knowwhat I mean?
That happens, it's a real thingand it happens to you.
(17:28):
It happens, and I've spoken topolice officers since who've
said about it and said this isso common and it's so common.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
This part gives me chills because it's something
that most people never talkabout unless they've lived it.
But some abusers will get youpregnant on purpose, and it's
not out of love, it's not out ofeven wanting a family, but they
use it as a way to trap you.
Fancy is a strategy for someabusers.
(17:58):
It's a permanent tie to thatperson, a way to make it harder
for you to leave, harder for youto rebuild and harder for you
to ever fully disconnect.
And then, if you leave, theyuse that child as a weapon to
control your schedule, yourfinances, your location and your
emotional well-being.
(18:19):
Your location and youremotional well-being.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
This is reproductive abuse and it is very real and um
, as a woman, you don't expectthat like, do you?
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
but um I know, especially as a people pleaser
too, like you want to believethe best in people.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
you, you really do, but I was like, well, I guess
this is meant to be then thatsort of thing.
But I remember going throughthose processes.
I'm pregnant, because it wasn'twhat was my intention, if that
makes sense.
I was so young and naive that Iwas like, oh, I'm going to be
30 and married and have thismagical life and have this huge
(18:58):
career before I have childrenand it sort of changed the whole
perspective.
But for me, I've had the bestpossible outcome from having my
child.
Do you know what I mean?
I wouldn't be who I am, Iwouldn't be able to be here.
But yeah, that definitelyhappened.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I agree, my, my son.
My son keeps me grounded and Ilearn something new from him.
I swear every single day andI'm a better person because of
him for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Unfortunately, you've gone through the bad stuff, but
you've got the best possiblething.
It's like a little gift thatsounds really horrible but I
think it is.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
No, I love that.
I love that.
Okay, so walk me through.
When you found out you werepregnant, did you get support
from him or from his family, orhow was that?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
We'll get to that.
But no, I remember I found out,I did the test and I was like
maybe it's wrong, maybe it'swrong.
So I went on voice note to myfriend and I walked up the road
and I said to her I'm pregnant.
I was like, what am I evensaying?
Like, what am I saying?
And her conversation with mewas like, are you going to get
(20:11):
rid of it?
Like, literally, because youknow, this is all really fast
and weird and not normal.
And it felt like it was for mebecause it was, um, it didn't
feel right, um, I didn't think Icould have another, like, have
a child, like that andeverything else, um.
But yeah, I then took apregnancy test the next day, um,
(20:32):
a proper one, because I didn'ttrust it, um, and I remember
going in to get one and I feltreally nervous and the woman
looking at me like you haven'tplanned that, you haven't
planned that, and I could see itin her eyes and I was like, oh
gosh, just give me the thing Iwant to get out of here.
Um, and uh, he actually sworeand went F, you've ruined my
(20:53):
life.
And I was like what?
What?
Yeah, um.
But it was like two weeks afterI got pregnant and, um, I
thought that it's like, oh, hedoesn't want me to have a baby,
you know sort of thing.
So in my mind for the next weekI started processing I'm gonna
have to have an abortion, I'mgonna.
You know, that's, that's whatmy process went to, um, which
(21:14):
I'm very grateful.
In the UK we have that still,but you know.
I'm not happy about where it,where it is in the rest of the
world.
But that was what my processwas.
Yeah, but I decided to keep himand, like, I obviously decided
to keep baby, and I told him Iwas and everything else, and he
said, oh yeah, we'll be fine andeverything else, and he started
being all like supportive inthat way.
Yeah, but there was a part ofme that always went back to the
(21:36):
way he reacted.
That was like what.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I was like what you know what I mean.
I mean it doesn't.
It doesn't matter how much lovebombing they do.
After the fact, those negativethings really do sit with you
for a very long time, like evenlong into survivorship, like,
yeah, those things are stains onyour perception of yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, definitely, and it definitely it changed how my
perspective was for mypregnancy as well.
Like, do you know what I mean?
I felt like I was going to be,like I didn't know I was going
to be alone, but I felt veryalone in that moment because I,
the one person who you'd expectto be like oh my, you've seen
those videos online wherethey're like, oh, my goodness,
(22:22):
we can have a baby and you'relike saying this to the person
like I'm pregnant and thereaction is, if you've ruined my
life is like all right, thanksright, because you played a like
you were 50% of that you know,and then like yeah, um.
So yeah, it was like a bit bitof it's something that always I
(22:43):
remember, if that makes it rightyou said you always go back to
non-intentional, but you doright?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
um, yeah, so I know that, statistically, the abuse
normally will start to ramp upduring pregnancy.
Is that something that youexperienced as well?
Yeah, this part is difficultfor me to speak on.
I've been stumbling over mywords so I'm going to try to
slow down so I can convey thisto you correctly.
(23:12):
But for many women many womenpregnancy is not a time of
celebration.
It becomes a literal war zone,and that's because one in six
women say that their abuse beganfor the first time ever during
their pregnancy, and for many,if they were already
(23:34):
experiencing abuse before theygot pregnant.
It escalates a lot of the times, especially so in the second
and third trimester, and evenaccording to the CDC, homicide
is one of the leading causes ofdeath for pregnant and
postpartum women here in the US,and it's most often at the
(23:59):
hands of a current or formerpartner.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
So it started off with, obviously, and I was there
panicking now because I'm thesole earner, I'm the one that's
working all these crazy hours.
I had that two weeks off and Iended up getting pregnant in two
weeks and I'm like, ah, and Iremember him.
He'd already done this, but hehad used my card to buy my own
(24:28):
birthday presents with it, withthe condition he was going to
pay me back.
Right, don't look at me likethat I wasn't looking at you.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think that was.
I was just like oh gosh, I know, and it wasn't you at you, I
think that was.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I was just like oh gosh, I know, it wasn't you,
it's him it's just like I know alot of the times when I listen
to everyone's stories, like thefire that I feel in my gut, yeah
, oh, but it started like withthat and then, unfortunately, he
was addicted to weed and he'duse my card and, without my
(25:04):
knowledge, sometimes had takenthe money out and it would be 50
quid at a time.
It's not like a little bit, itwas 50 quid, that's like a lot
of money.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That's $50 over there , isn't it Like yeah, yeah, a
lot of money, in case you wereinterested, like like me, to
know what the conversion is froma quid to at least a US dollar.
It's about 66 to 67 dollarsthat he was taking out of her
account at a time.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It's not a little bit , it's not like you know, tiny
little like cents you'd call itthat like it's not that, it's
like a huge amount and I'm andI'm there, obviously working and
not knowing this is all kind ofhappening.
So it gets to the January um.
So like I'm about two monthspregnant and I decide to leave
um, like my job, and get adifferent job.
(25:52):
So I get a different job, whichis less money, but it means
like I'll be more stressless,everything else.
He's there, like, bear in mind,promising me he's going to get
this job.
He's going to get this job andit gets to.
He's going to start this joband I have to pay for him to do
the training, for the course forhim to do this job.
And I did.
I know, I know it's stupid,whatever else, but it went from
(26:14):
that to everything that hewanted.
I was the one that was meant toprovide it.
If he didn't have money, if heneeded it, I was the one, if
that makes sense.
It was like my money was not mymoney, um, but this money was
like I wasn't noticing itbecause he was using my other
card, so I had loads.
I didn't have loads of cards,but I had, like my main debit I
(26:35):
think that's what you call itthere like your main card, and
then obviously I had savings andyeah, I was panicking, because
pregnant is not the bestsituation anyway, but all of
this, he got a job.
And then it got to.
He needed my car to go to workand he'd take my car without my
(26:58):
permission sometimes, or he'dmake me walk three miles to work
and three miles back.
He made you walk when you werepregnant yeah, and this is like
five o'clock in the morning, Ihad to walk through a town, yeah
, and it gets scarier because Ilike, when I'm about five months
pregnant, um, I had walked.
This doesn't normally happen inthe UK.
I had walked, um, it was caughton CCTV.
(27:18):
I had walked one minute beforesomeone had driven a car for a
department store and I walkedone minute before that.
Well, I was pregnant.
Past that shot, I know, I know,like I have, I have goosebumps
right now.
That is insane, I know and I waslike, but he didn't bat an
(27:39):
eyelid when I told him that Iwas like, like that could have
been me, her or you know, andI'm, and I'm like what?
This is weird at this pointlike there's lots of stuff like
that that I look back and I'mlike that's not how a normal
relationship is.
That's not normal.
I've never like any other manor partner wouldn't want their
pregnant partner to go through atown three miles, three miles
(28:02):
back.
And it wasn't just that I wascarrying shopping, like big bags
of shopping, sometimes backbecause he wouldn't let me have
my car.
So I'm carrying all this stuffback.
It's crazy.
It was crazy to look back on.
But he then started down thejealousy route then as well,
because one of my managersoffered to drop me home.
He saw what I was doing,obviously completely appalled,
(28:22):
and he lived around the cornerfrom me and I was like, oh, it's
okay, thank you.
And I went and told him becauseyou know, you do tell your
partner, and he's like well, areyou seeing him?
And I was like what?
And then he went is that mychild?
And I was like, are you beingfor real?
Like, bear in mind, I didn'tknow this person at this point.
Wow, I know, but there's stufflike that that looking back, I
(28:45):
didn't see it.
I didn't see those sort ofthings, because it's Rosie, like
the tintedness, you get likeone minute happiness.
You know what I mean.
You know what the cycle's like,the cycle of abuse.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Exactly.
Okay, stick with me herebecause I am going to explain to
you what the cycle of abuselooks like.
A lot of the times there arevictims who don't really know or
realize that they're caught inthis cycle, so maybe this will
help you identify something inyour own relationship.
So the cycle of abuse it hasfour stages.
(29:20):
Number one is tension building,and this is when things really
start to feel off Like yourabuser may become irritable,
controlling, critical.
You're walking on eggshells,you're trying to prevent the
next blow up.
And then number two is theincident.
This is the explosion, theverbal, emotional, physical or
even sexual abuse.
It may be screaming, it couldbe hitting, it could be threats,
(29:43):
accusations, even forced sex,and this is the moment that your
body will go into survival mode.
Then they switch up on you andthey go into stage three of the
cycle, which is reconciliation.
This is the apology, the tearsI'm going to get help.
You know I didn't mean it, it'sjust because I love you so much
(30:05):
.
They may cry, promise change,shower you with affections, and
you believe it because you wantto believe it.
And then you move into numberfour, the honeymoon stage, and
this is the calm, like you startto talk to yourself and say,
maybe things are good again,like they're really good,
(30:25):
they're being attentive rightnow, they're sweet, they're
everything that they were in thevery beginning of your
relationship, and you think, oh,maybe it's really going to be
different this time and you holdon to like that hope and those
little crumbs of love thatthey're giving to you during
this time.
And you hold on to like thathope and those little crumbs of
love that they're giving to youduring this time.
But then the tension starts tobuild again and the cycle
(30:47):
repeats and over time thishoneymoon phase actually shrinks
until eventually there is nocalm, it's just chaos.
But by then you're so in it,you're emotionally worn down,
you're confused, you're isolatedand you're unsure of how you
can escape.
It is designed to keep youstuck and you become addicted to
(31:10):
it.
Oh yeah, when you're happy withthe little morsels of love or
gratitude or passion or whateverthat they show you that you're
like oh okay, like I got someand it's like a dopamine hit.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, and then you just, you know, repeat the cycle
, because you're just constantlywaiting for them to show you
that you're worth it to them andalso for me, I felt like,
because I'd known him so long, Ifelt like I lost a friend, like
every time, like do you knowwhat I mean when you're like
pulling away?
You're like, oh, but they'rekind of a friend at times, but
(31:47):
they're not.
They're like they've completelymirrored you, to the point that
they know what's your tickpoints.
It's like having a board withoh, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick
.
They've learned it and it'scrazy.
But you don't want that to bethe fact, because you fall in
love with this person or you're.
It may not even be a romanticpartner.
It might be, you know, as we'veseen, like fathers, you know
(32:08):
mothers, whatever else.
You want that person to be apart of your life, because you
do, and that's fair enough.
But they're not worth it, ifthat makes sense, because you're
worth so much more.
But you won't see that untilthe end.
And that's the hardest part Ithink for me was realizing I'm
worth more than questioningmyself and being like this.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So yeah, I think it was Savannah last season told me
that when she looks back atwhen she finally walked away, it
was that she decided to loveherself just 1% more.
Oh just 1% more, and that 1% iswhat made the difference for
(32:50):
her.
Oh that's a really cute saying.
I really, I know, I reallyloved that.
Go Savannah, go Savannah,that's really nice.
Oh, that's nice, I like that.
Um, so, how?
How did things escalate from it?
There was jealousy.
There was, you know, a littlebit of isolation, because you
(33:12):
know he's taking your car.
You can't go anywhere there was, I'm hearing so far, financial
abuse.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
For sure, then it was making melate for midwife appointments.
I was always late and theynever picked up on it.
I think they thought this wasme at this point.
But I remember this time thatI'm like we need to go and he's
there, like I need to gel myhair, I'm like I need to go to
an appointment, and in the endwe obviously went to the
(33:41):
appointments and stuff and hedid come with me, which was nice
, but some of them he didn'tbecause of working, which I
don't know whether he was or not, do you know what I mean?
But yeah, yeah, so that thatthat's what sort of happened
then.
Um, and then then it was Iwanted to move to a bigger house
, obviously, because I'm livingat the point in a top floor
apartment one bedroom, by theway, so it's like small um, and
(34:06):
it actually said on my likeagreement, I guess, like do you
have like an agreement, likewhen you sign for a place, like
an agreement?
Yeah, like a lease.
We can't, yeah, yeah and it saidno children allowed to be in
this building.
So I'm like, oh god, I reallyneed to move because I don't
want to be kicked out and behomeless with a baby.
I'm like thinking in my mind,I'm thinking, the day I come
(34:28):
home with this baby, it's gonnabe taken like I'm gonna have to
go somewhere.
You know what I mean, becauseyou want that security.
So I'm like looking for housesand everything else and I found
this house and this was the weekbefore I had my son.
So I had a week off formaternity and I actually had him
early and I think it's becauseI did so much, I was doing so
(34:48):
much by myself, but I didn'tnotice.
It Is I had.
I literally went, went.
I literally went on a busbecause he took my car and it
was a two-hour bus journey andit was like the hottest week.
It was 32 degrees on this bus,bear in mind.
I had no water with me.
I was like feeling like I wasgonna pass out.
I got off the bus, my mum cameand found me, luckily, and I
(35:10):
went to see this whole house bymyself and, um, I didn't get it
but like he didn't, like hedidn't want to be there sort of
thing.
It felt very much like he wasthere for the show or for
telling people, but but when itcame to actual things he wasn't
there like the things you needed, like a support system, if that
makes sense for an abuser image.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Everything.
As long as the world will seethem as kind and caring, it
becomes so much easier togaslight you into silence, and
that's because they may show upto your doctor's appointments,
rub your back in public, crackjokes with your friends and even
compliment you in front of yourfamily and these people,
because this is what they'reshown.
(35:54):
They eat it up and they'll saythings this is what they're
shown.
They eat it up and they'll saythings like oh, you're so lucky,
he's such a great guy.
And that's because what theydon't see is that other version
of him, the one that comes outwhen you two are alone, the one
that comes out behind closeddoors.
They use that publicperformance to make sure that no
(36:15):
one believes you, the victim,when you finally decide to speak
up.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, but I've skipped a whole part there
because at seven months pregnanthe hurt me for the first time.
But I didn't believe that, ifthat makes sense, because I was
love-bombed and didn't believeit happened.
So, yeah, it's, it's crazy.
Well, do you feel comfortabletalking?
about what happened about itabsolutely because it's a.
It's quite common in pregnancy,um, I've spoken to a few people
(36:45):
that have had it since.
So it's quite normal.
Not normal, but in in terms ofabuse statistically, yeah, um,
but yeah, I was seven monthspregnant.
I had done a 12 hour shift, Ithink it's something like that
crazy.
Um, and I come home and Ithought, oh, he's gonna come and
kiss me because he came towardsme and he I remember him
(37:05):
grabbing me by the neck andpushing me into the door.
I was like okay, and then hetwisted me around and hit my
head on the headboard and that'sall I remember.
But like, I didn't know if thiswas like me thinking it or not.
Do you know what I mean?
But I woke up and it had beenlike two or three hours.
I must have literally beenpassed out for two or three
hours.
(37:26):
And he come into the bedroom.
He's like hey, I've made dinner.
And I'm like what?
And he's like I've made dinnerand I like what.
And he's like I've made dinnerand I'm there like what the hell
just happened?
Like I'm still in my workuniform at this point.
I'm like what happened?
He was like oh, you fell asleepand I'm like I'm pretty sure
that didn't just happen, like I.
Like I was so gaslit at thispoint that I was like I don't
(37:48):
think it's happened, but Iwanted to prove to myself in the
future that I that that didn'thappen right, so it gets even
more insane.
He then goes I think we need togo out for a drive and I'm
thinking what the hell'shappening and he goes and takes
me for a drive two hours away,not like a little drive, a
two-hour drive and he's likethis is the same night, same
night, like after okay, so thisis like now at probably nine or
(38:11):
ten at night.
He's like.
So he's like oh, yeah, we're gofor a drive.
We went for a barbecue in themiddle of nowhere, which was
really weird, after he made food.
Yeah, it's just weird.
This is what was weird.
I can't even remember what itwas, but yeah, but I took a
picture of myself deliberatelyand I've told people before and
they're like oh, but there's noproof that he did anything.
I took it because I didn't knowif it was some weird dream or
(38:34):
if it happened, because it wasso gaslighting.
Do you know what I mean?
Did that happen?
But it did.
It definitely did.
I just couldn't believe it andI didn't want to believe it.
You don't want to believe it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
No, you really don't.
And it's kind of like,especially in situations like
that, because I also I know thatI've never told my story and
I've been asked to tell my story, but, um, just a side note, I'm
working on remembering it.
So, like you, there are thingsthat are so hazy and fuzzy that
I'm like did that really, didthat really happen?
(39:08):
Um, and I think it's justeasier to say oh, no, it didn't.
It's easier to gaslightyourself yeah into yeah, and I
think it's just easier to say oh, no, it didn't.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
It's easier to gaslight yourself into yeah, and
I think for me my brain's like,yeah, you've had so much trauma
.
Just put that in a little box,leave it in a box, then we'll
come back to it in about 10years' time.
In the most random place You'llbe like, oh yeah, that happened
.
That seems to happen with me.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I'll be like somewhere, like a supermarket,
like, oh yeah, that happened tome as well, didn't it?
Yes, and why does it come backat at the worst times?
And I feel like we're talkingabout PTSD?
Because the further away thatyou remove yourself from your
abuse, the safer you are goingto feel on your healing journey,
and then your brain is going tolet you start remembering
things, which is what I'm goingthrough right now.
Yeah and um, it's always soinconvenient because you're like
(40:02):
I want to put the pieces of myown puzzle together, but, yeah,
not right now it's never likewhen you're just about to like
calm down.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
it's like you're in the middle of something.
You're like, really right nowI've come to a realization.
I don't want to process this,but it's right now.
Okay, let's deal with this,apparently, but brain wants me
to.
So, yeah, it's a hard one withthat one, but yeah, so, yeah,
that's what happened duringpregnancy.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
He made her dinner, he took her to a barbecue, he
smiled, he laughed, he playedthe role of a loving boyfriend,
like he hadn't just tried tounalive her.
This is not just manipulation.
This is psychological warfare,because when an abuser flips the
(40:50):
switch that fast fromlife-threatening violence to
bliss, it messes with yourreality.
You start to wonder did thatreally happen?
Was it that bad?
If he's acting normal now,maybe I'm the one that's
overreacting.
You were just violently hurtand then somebody asked you to
(41:11):
pretend as if it never happened.
This is a form of gaslightingand it's designed to keep you
silent and confused.
The best example I can think ofthis is in the movie.
It Ends With Us when Lily ispushed down the stairs by Ryle.
(41:33):
She wakes up after the fact,disoriented, wondering what
really happened, and Ryle islike you fell, you fell and what
really?
What you think you rememberhappening didn't really happen.
Believe me, because I'm the onethat is telling the truth.
I'm the one that didn't passout.
I remember right.
This is abuse.
(41:59):
Sitting here with Sophie's storyhas me feeling this fire in my
soul.
I'm angry for her.
I'm angry for all of us thathave to deal.
I'm angry for all of us thathave to deal with abuse, and if
you're like me and this episodehas brought up something for you
(42:20):
, please take care of yourself,whether that means reaching out
to a friend or being by yourselfin some stillness, taking a
walk in nature, journaling Justremember that you deserve that
care.
Okay, capisce, signaling.
(42:41):
Just remember that you deservethat care.
Okay, capisce.
I also want to correct myself,because I think Sophie and I
originally interviewed back inFebruary and I had said, oh,
I've never told my story.
I have.
Now we've.
We've got over that hump formyself.
If you're interested in hearingmy own personal story, it is the
past two episodes on thispodcast.
It's part one and part two.
(43:02):
Thug it out and, girl, you gotto go.
And if you're ready to shareyour story, my inbox is open
DismissTrueStories atTheSurvivorSisterhoodcom.
Dismisstruestories atTheSurvivorSisterhoodcom.
If you're ready to share yourtruth, I'd be honored to help
you tell it in your own words.
(43:22):
Part 2 of Sophie's story iscoming this following Friday,
and thank you so much forlistening to Dismiss True
Stories.
Until next time, keep healing,keep speaking and remember the
world is a better place becauseyou are in it.
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