July 25, 2025 • 42 mins
Haley McLean shares the story of Hope's Second Chance, Michigan's only animal sanctuary specifically created to help domestic violence survivors escape with their pets. She built this solution after seeing firsthand how survivors were forced to choose between safety and their animals.
• Founded during COVID when Haley realized shelters couldn't accommodate pets due to liability and space issues
• Pets often face abuse or are used as control mechanisms by abusers, making them overlooked victims
• Provides temporary housing for all kinds of animals while survivors establish safe living situations
• Animals receive veterinary care they've often been denied in abusive homes
• Pets frequently show trauma responses and PTSD symptoms from witnessing abuse
• The sanctuary provides a calm, stable environment with loving care for traumatized animals
• Average stays last about three months while survivors rebuild their lives
• Operates completely through volunteers with no paid staff
• Currently reopening after financial challenges and seeking foster homes
• Survivors consistently demonstrate incredible strength in rebuilding their lives
Visit Hope’s Second Chance to learn more about volunteering, fostering, or donating to help survivors and their pets escape domestic violence together.
Zoom link for Tala’s Q&A: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/U1HL5kOnQnuNw2lFSBwx9A
📣 Helpful Facts
- Nearly 50–70% of abuse survivors delay leaving if they can’t bring pets (Human Resources).
- Studies show up to 90% of abusers threaten or hurt pets as a control tactic (banfieldfoundation.org).
🐾 National & Directory Resources
- Safe Havens for Pets – A searchable national directory run by the Animal Welfare Institute to locate local programs that shelter pets of domestic violence victims (Animal Welfare Institute, Safe Havens for Pets).
- Purina Purple Leash Project & RedRover – Grants and support to equip domestic violence shelters to take in survivors with pets; aims for 25% of U.S. shelte
National Domestic Violence Hotline: 800-799-7233 OR text begin to 88788
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hey, girl, welcome back to Dismissed True Stories.
Dts is a podcast for survivors,by survivors, and here we don't
just tell survivors stories toamplify voices, we also leave
advice for victims who are stillstuck in abuse to be able to
escape to.
And not only that, I break inwith sidebar commentary that
(00:39):
helps you decode and understandyour own experiences in real
time.
If you're new here, hey, I'mAlyssa, and we hold space right
here on DTS for the hard stuff,the healing stuff and everything
in between.
So on today's episode, thiswill be just a little bit
(01:04):
different from our normalbroadcast schedule, but it's
really freaking cool and I knowyou'll love it.
Today I'm talking with HaleyMcLean.
She's the founder of Hope'sSecond Chance Animal Sanctuary,
the only domestic violencerescue operation of its kind
right here in Michigan thathelps survivors leave abuse
(01:27):
without having to leave theirpets behind.
And here's what makes Haley sodamn special.
She's not a survivor ofdomestic violence herself.
She didn't live through it.
She didn't live through it, butshe saw it.
She walked into shelters whileinterviewing for jobs and saw
(01:49):
the heartbreaking reality ofsurvivors having to choose
between safety and their animals.
And instead of looking away,she did something.
She built a solution.
She filled a solution.
She filled a gap.
She created a soft landing forthe most overlooked members of
(02:10):
our families the ones with paws.
In this episode, you'll hearhow her work started during
COVID and how it evolved into afull-blown sanctuary, and why
she treats every pet likethey're her own, with love,
(02:31):
stability and a deep respect forthe trauma that they carry too.
This isn't just about animals,it's about humanity, and it's
about what happens when someonechooses to stand in the gap, and
not because they have to, butbecause they can.
(02:58):
Let's get into it.
This really means a lot to me.
I watched the video on yourwebsite.
I cried a little bit because Iwas like, oh my God, this is
just so beautiful.
Like all the help that victimswho are looking to leave can get
.
It's necessary.
Thank you for what you do.
Yeah, yeah, it's um, it's beenquite the learning experience.
(03:21):
I get it that.
That probably isn't easy either.
Like just the paperwork that'sinvolved in the beginning,
that's a lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was likethat was so much.
Luckily it was during COVID, soI had, you know, all the time
in the world, you know, notgoing out anywhere, so might as
(03:45):
well do paperwork.
I think it's been such alearning experience on life in
general and people in generaland I somehow, like I sometimes
have to catch myself and I tellmy husband to like it's a good
thing I didn't start hope secondchance before I met him because
I think I would have a reallyhard time like dating or, you
(04:05):
know, doing relationships oranything, if I knew like how
much is out there, how many badnot bad people, but like how
many abusers are out there.
And now you know, my life iskind of flooded with it.
So I see it more than you, morethan most.
Yeah, I've learned a lotthrough that too and just like
(04:26):
the strength of women or ofsurvivors, it's been a life
changer.
It is.
It's just one of those thingsthat once you know, you can't
not know, you can't look away,you can't pretend that it
doesn't happen.
So so I'm Haley McLean.
(05:07):
I have a huge passion foranimals, always have.
So I was interviewing atdifferent jobs looking for a job
in nonprofits.
That's my background.
I've always loved nonprofitorganizations and volunteering.
I grew up volunteering with WestMichigan therapy dogs and
different organizations relatedaround pets, of course, and so I
(05:32):
was interviewing at somedomestic violence shelters and
you know, walking in theirfacilities and walking around
and like, okay, some of thesewomen have to have pets, like
there has to be animals in someof these houses and so I would
ask, like you have to ask aquestion or whatever, yeah, and
(05:53):
I was like, what happens tothese animals and they?
You know, I had a coupledifferent interviews and they
kept telling me, like differentthings, but basically the
liability that's involved, theallergies, because allergies,
because they have, you know,many women in their houses and
kids, um, so the liability ofanimals being around and is just
too much of a risk they have.
(06:14):
They're already full um, and toallow pets in and then deal
with that extra space and, youknow, all of those extra issues
that go along with it, they justcouldn't allow it.
So they said a lot of them likeand now you can hear my dog
that's on, yeah, yes, so I theysaid that you know like a lot of
(06:35):
them will either leave theirpets behind um or they will
bring them to a shelter wherethey may never see them again.
Um, a lot of, you know, a lotof family ties are cut or friend
ties are cut because of theabuser.
So there's not much of asupport system around that
aspect and it's just been partof the course.
(06:55):
I've talked to so many that youknow they want to leave with
their pets.
They don't want to leavewithout them Because they know
like their abuser most likelywill harm those pets.
To get them back there's just ahuge need.
We're the only ones in the stateof Michigan that really focus
on the pets.
We're also the only ones thatfocus on the survivor.
(07:17):
So you know there's like thehumane societies and stuff like
that, but they focus on the petsand not on all the safety
issues that come with that.
We really want to make surethat the survivors we work with
are as safe as possible.
So we're so careful about wherewe meet them that no one's
allowed on our property.
You know all these differentthings.
(07:38):
So we take that from thesurvivor side and then the pet
side.
You know we try and make thesepets as comfortable as possible.
We understand that they'recoming from a home and they're
going back to a home.
So you know we make sure thattheir patterns are kept the same
, their foods kept the same, allof that Because we look at it
as like a boarding kind of thing, you know, we want them to be
(08:00):
as comfortable as possible goingback to their parents, their
moms and children.
So we kind of take both thoseaspects and so that's made us
the only one in Michigan thatreally has this focus and really
focus on the safety foreveryone too.
And it's, you know,transitioned along the way.
(08:21):
I've learned so much.
Each time I work with asurvivor I'm like OK, how can I
make this better?
Each time I worked with a pet,how can we make this better?
How can we make this morecomfortable?
And it's been just a huge, hugeprocess.
We started in 2020 withpaperwork and then 2021, we
offered services for the firstsurvivor in May, and then we
(08:41):
were able to purchase a kenneland another barn like a cat barn
, and so we kind of stayed openfrom there, built on, and then,
two years ago I think, webasically ran out of money.
It's super expensive.
One of the other things I hadn'treally thought of before
opening was almost all of thesepets have not seen veterinar, um
(09:04):
veterinarians, because a vetwill also see abuse.
So, um, a lot of them have notgone, or the abuser doesn't want
to spend money on the pets, um,so it we've.
We've spent a lot of money onum, spaying and neutering and
all of the all of the um,medications and shots, the
(09:27):
medications and shots and justthe basic preventative care that
they've never received, and Ididn't think about that
beforehand, so that wasexpensive.
It's interesting that you saythe basic care, because, as
you're explaining this, I'mthinking, because, as you're
explaining this, I'm thinking,wow, she's really going above
and beyond.
This isn't boarding.
(09:48):
You could look at it as you'realmost rehabilitating these pets
as well.
The survivors have to go.
They're survivors as well.
They have probably been in thesame room when these situations
are occurring.
Pets can absolutely have PTSD,and that makes me so sad that
(10:09):
you ran out of money because,like you're, you're truly taking
care of these animals Likethey're your own.
Yeah, we've.
We've had a lot live in ourhouse, much to my husband's
unhappiness.
House, much to my husband'sunhappiness, yes, I.
(10:31):
I hope that at least whilethey're here, I can provide some
stability for these animals,because I know, like we've had a
lot of survivors go back totheir abusers.
That's just, that's so common.
So I know that sometimes theseanimals may go back to the chaos
, and so I hope that whilethey're here they can have a
happy life, that's even if it'sjust for a couple of weeks, like
(10:53):
let's.
You know, give them some love.
They all want love.
They're all such loving animals.
They usually have been abusedor they've been around it.
Most of the dogs have hadhorrible issues with my husband
because he has the beard, he hasthe hat, sunglasses he wears
all the time.
(11:13):
You know he's a bigger guy,tall, it's just they see a man,
and so it's kind of good to havehim around too.
He's not necessarily he doesn'tlove the big dogs and stuff
like that.
So I think it's a good learningexperience for both the dogs
and him.
But it's so sad and I almostalways use him as a test of like
(11:38):
.
Okay, if they're completelycomfortable around him, then
they most likely haven't seen asmuch of the abuse or and or
been involved.
But if they're uncomfortable,then I immediately know okay, I
can't have many men around, Ican't have, you know, them
helping as much like I need towork more on these paths and
just hoping that they get usedto that too.
(11:59):
Yeah, they, they tell you in theways, in the ways that they can
how many counties are youserving now in Michigan?
So we started off like MidwestMichigan just because of our
location.
But when we have openings which, yeah, it depends and the story
, it depends on that as well.
(12:20):
But we have opened like to, Ithink, like 13 counties.
We've served um all the way tothe east side.
Um, usually that involves them,like the survivor, traveling to
the side for some reason familyor whatever.
But yeah, we kind of open basedon what is what we have
available.
(12:41):
Okay, um, we only have fivekennels, but you know, sometimes
we've had a couple puppies comein or like really older old
dogs in.
Those can come in the house andstuff, depending on their
attitude.
So you know just what we needto allow.
Yeah, it seems like you justyou try to make it work, if you
can try to make it work.
(13:01):
Yeah, how do you feel that yourmission, if it has, how do you
feel like it's evolved sinceyou've started?
Yeah, you know that I think haspretty much stayed the same
Through all of it.
We have definitely started.
I didn't realize how unique wewere, but other than that, like
(13:22):
we've really stuck to ourmission, just just house pets
temporarily so that thesurvivors can leave.
There's so much more involvedin that just because of each
survivor being different, eachcircumstance being different,
but we've really just we justwant to help the survivors and
(13:45):
their pets.
Can you walk me through theprocess of, let's say, you're a
victim, you're looking to leave,maybe you found a safe place,
but you cannot bring your pet.
So how can you walk us throughthat process of what that victim
could expect?
We've been closed for like twoyears.
We're reopening very soon, atleast to cats, but basically, I
(14:09):
mean, I've had people contactingme the whole time,
unfortunately, but we just havea form on our website.
Um, usually they reach out tome first and you know we talk
through it.
Um, it's okay, I like it.
It just adds to the interviewand that website is hopes,
second chanceorg, second beingum, the number two, nd, yes, nd,
(14:35):
yep, um, so yeah, they can just.
Usually they reach out to mefirst, um, and then I'll refer
them to the website.
Um, we do get a lot of peoplecalling for other circumstances.
Um, we only help pets ofdomestic violence survivors,
that's it.
Because there is such a need,we can't help others.
(15:01):
So I get a lot of calls andthen I, you know, depending on
all the circumstances, I'll sendthem to the website, fill out
the form.
We'll figure out a time to meetbased on when they're leaving
or what you know.
Sometimes they're allowed tohave the pets for a couple days
and then they have to surrenderthem, um, so they sign over
their pets to me, to a lot, well, to the organization, um, to
(15:22):
allow us to do all the vettingand everything like that, um.
But then they get the petsright back once they're ready.
So it's all through lots ofcommunication with them and me,
um, throughout the time that thepets are here, I love to send
pictures and updates, and youknow all of that because I know
it's such a struggle to trust acomplete stranger with your
animals.
(15:44):
So, yeah, it's really basic.
We meet up, transfer the animal, they say goodbye and then I
take them for however long isneeded and as long as they're in
communication with me, we holdthe pet for them and give them
back.
We have had a few besurrendered or where the
survivor kind of ghosts us,which then we have to find a new
(16:05):
home.
But yeah, other than that, it'ssuper simple.
We try to make it as flawlessas possible so that this is one
less thing they have to worryabout?
Yeah, so what does the vettingprocess look like for the
survivor?
Yeah, so it's basically justlooking at why they need housing
for the dogs or cats, um, andtheir location, um kind of thing
(16:32):
, and we don't if or and likehow we're going to be able to
meet and stuff like that.
Also, you know, the the idea isfor three months.
The average is three months.
If they're looking at like, oh,it's going to be a year or
something, we would just suggestthat they, you know, do
surrender them to a humanesociety or shelter rescue,
(16:55):
because at that point that's nothealthy for the animals either.
And since you've started, haveyou only taken dogs and cats or
are you open to taking any kindof other pet?
So we have only had cats anddogs, but we are able to take in
any animal pretty much.
(17:15):
I will not personally take careof, like lizards and snakes and
stuff, but I do have volunteers.
But pretty much any animal I'veheard of, you know, like horses
and stuff like that.
We haven't had that need, butwe are able to do that.
That's incredible because I,even as a survivor of domestic
(17:37):
violence, I've never owned ahorse.
I always wanted one.
I was one of those girls askingfor a pony or a horse when I
was younger for my birthday.
But you don't think aboutbecause I had two dogs when I
left.
But you don't think about thoselarger animals.
If you are a horse owner,that's not something that you
(17:58):
can just pick up and go.
I'd honestly, had never eventhought of that.
And the fact that you're opento that that's incredible.
We understand like you couldhave a connection with any I
mean any of the animals andstuff like that, and an abuser
can use any type of animalagainst the survivor.
So we want to help with that.
(18:19):
Our hope is that because we areable to let them escape with
their animals, that they're morelikely to not go back.
Yes, multiple times, yes.
Do you work with any other likeshelters or organizations, not
just in Michigan but maybeacross the nation, organizations
, not just in Michigan but maybeacross the nation?
We work with pretty much allthe local domestic violence
(18:40):
shelters more on a referralbasis.
They you know, so they knowabout us, we know about them.
That's kind of the connectionwe see there.
We have been in contact withthere's a large organization
somewhat similar to us inGeorgia, so we work with them,
and then Red Rover in California.
(19:04):
We've received one of theirgrants and stuff like that.
Yeah, just kind of trying toshare resources and stuff.
It's been touch and go with,you know, georgia, just trying
to reach out because this is myvolunteer job, so you know
timing and everything hasdefinitely been a struggle to
focus on this.
But, yeah, there's a few thatwe work with, but it's tough to
(19:31):
create something new, to createsomething new.
So I'm I'm wondering I wascurious, um, as I was uh, doing
some research on you, is thereany sort of like database for
services and organizations likeyours where victims can look
into?
Um, just because I, thispodcast is so, is there any type
(19:56):
of database that you know of, Ibelieve the national now I
can't even think what it standsfor National something of
domestic violence survivors?
Yes, they have some stuff likethat, some lists.
I know like a lot of thoseWe've been found on Google.
Um, that's kind of how some ofour survivors we are not on any
(20:21):
list because we are, when we'reopen, we fill up immediately,
okay, um, just withoutadvertising or anything but um,
so I haven't had to really lookinto that, but I think, um, like
I know that the state ofMichigan has like domestic
violence survivor lists andtheir resources, and then also,
(20:41):
I think the national one doestoo.
Now you said that you would keeppets for like upwards to three
months usually longer if, um, ifa survivor needs to Yep, we've
had dogs up to six months andshe was contacting me once a
(21:02):
week just letting me know she'sstill there, she's still working
on it.
We've also had a pit bull for awhile and she was struggling to
find housing because of itbeing a pit.
So there's things like that aswell.
But, yeah, and we've had petsfor like a week.
So it just it really varies.
(21:23):
Yeah, I mean it is.
It is difficult.
I know that.
When I finally found safety sojust a little bit about me and
my story I ended up leaving withjust a laundry basket full of
clothes and my toddler and mydogs and we were staying in my
car for a while.
And then I had found anothersingle mom to move in with and
(21:46):
we moved into her basement butshe was not allowed to have pets
on her property because she wasrenting, and so, luckily, my
parents came and got my dogs,but I was working three jobs and
I was not able to fully cut,just because I don't know if you
(22:08):
know this, but 98% of abusiverelationships also include
financial abuse.
So when I left, I left withover $10,000 in debt.
So trying to get back onto myfeet like that, working three
jobs, it still took me a year tofinally be able to afford my
(22:30):
own apartment.
And I'm sure it's just case bycase for you and getting to form
a relationship with thatsurvivor as well.
Yeah, and it definitely too,depends on how the pets are
doing.
We've had some deteriorate alittle bit and we can definitely
see that.
So if you know, if the dog wasstruggling and cats don't care
(22:52):
as much, typical was strugglingthat would also be like, okay,
you need to figure somethingelse out because they can't be
in this environment.
So, yes, definitely case bycase of what's going on and
usually like, to some extent, atthat point there's a connection
(23:15):
made or something else wheresomeone else is able to help and
maybe let the pets live in ahouse somewhere, even if it's
still not with their survivor.
It's, you know, just a littlebit better of a situation,
because we do have and we doallow the pets inside, but also
it is kennels.
Um, it's, you know a heated,air conditioned barn and they
have, you know, beds and all ofthat, but it is a kennel um with
(23:38):
multiple dogs.
So, um, some animals dostruggle with that.
So some animals do strugglewith that.
My dog was one of the reasonsthat I finally woke up and said,
ok, I got to go.
There were many reasons and Ithink they all just kind of
happened at once for me.
So one of the things that Istarted doing before I left
(24:03):
abuse was I decided I had tostart listening to my inner
voice and shutting out all thenoise.
And how I did that was I wouldtake my dogs on a walk, no phone
, every morning.
And as I started to watch mygirl her name's Kins just become
so happy getting out of thathouse, she was validating for me
(24:26):
Like it's not, it's not just mefeeling this, and so now that I
got her back, I see the samesort of symptoms in her as I do
in me when it comes to, like,our healing process and having
PTSD and being so scared incertain situations, and we've
(24:48):
definitely helped each otherheal.
Do you see something like thatin other pets and how do you
help them?
Some of that is just providingas much love as we can, watching
their behaviors, watchingwhat's going on, showing them
that they are in a safe space,um, that you know nothing's
(25:11):
gonna happen to them here, um,and then slowly like trying to
show them other people as well,um, and just the the love that
others can provide and, um,trying to keep.
You know we try and have musicon in the kennels and just like
a soothing I have all my dogsright here, it's okay A soothing
(25:33):
environment as much as possible.
We do a lot of like the calmingdiffusers and stuff like that
to try and just make them feelsafe in the moment.
Unfortunately, you know, oncethey leave, there's not as much
as I can provide with helpingwith that, but I hope that the
(25:54):
survivor continues that andusually you know, like that's
all they want.
They love their pets.
That's why they took them withthem, so it's just hoping that
they'll stay out of thatsituation again.
Exactly, and a lot of the times, you know, our pets provide
emotional support and safety forus as well.
Again, a lot of them.
(26:15):
I've talked to many survivorsthat have been like nope, my
pets were not abused, and they,that pet is still like, so
reactive.
So, um, even if the pet hasn'tbeen abused, they've seen the
reaction of the survivor, um,and so you know, kind of getting
that to calm down a little bittoo, but they're feeling it, um,
(26:37):
they're.
When they see, you know, theirmom get abused, they feel it too
, um.
So there's a lot of that aswell, of just trying to
understand, like, okay, they maynot have been hurt, but they
see it, they know that, they canfeel it from the owners.
So, yeah, yeah, what has beenone of the most meaningful
experiences that you've hadthrough running the sanctuary.
(27:02):
I think it probably was my firstsurvivor.
She was coming from anotherstate but she was moving into
one of the counties we serve and, because she was the first, I
didn't have any other pets.
She had two pets and these dogswere incredible.
They're massive.
(27:23):
This one was a massive dog.
They were the sweetest things.
But I also, because it was justthem, her and I met up quite a
bit so she could see the dogsthrough the process and I
learned so much from her I'mjust talking to her and she was
so strong and I learned, youknow, like, um, her dad hadn't
(27:47):
been the best and then everyrelationship she had had had all
been abusive and you know justthe the not realizing what, that
there are good people, thereare good guys out there and
stuff like that.
She was used to that abuse, um,and then how strong she was to
completely leave.
She moved to michigan to livewith a friend.
(28:08):
Like she didn't have familyhere, she didn't have anything,
um, and she ended up buying ahouse and within the the few
months that I had the dogs, shebought a house.
She was working on adopting acouple kids that she had been
living with and taking care ofUm, and then to see her with the
dogs once they came back, likeit was just, it was so cool the
(28:29):
dogs could have cared less thatI was there, um, and that's some
of it too.
Like, I don't necessarily wanta connection with the dogs.
I try not to have that becauseit's, you know, bad on both our
parts.
But, um, they were just sohappy to be with their mom and
she was just so, so strong.
So I really learned a lot fromher and her dogs, so that was
(28:51):
probably the best experience.
Mm-hmm, I know that you aregetting ready to open.
I've seen that you've beenworking on a different
fundraising initiatives as well.
But how can, if anybody feelscalled to, how can?
Um, we help support yourmission?
Yeah, so our website providesall that information again, um,
(29:16):
we would love fosters.
Again, we've struggled to findfosters because there are so
many pets right now through allthe humane societies and rescues
that need fostering and I thinkthe fosters are kind of few and
far in between, and we need avery specific house because, you
know, it can't be chaotic.
A lot of these pets we don'tknow how they are with children
(29:40):
Most children, most of them arereally good, but, um, you know,
we just want a very safe andquiet and comfortable place and,
um, a lot of them haven't beenaround other pets.
So, you know, there's just weneed, we need, like the unicorn,
fosters basically, and sofostering is great, volunteering
is great, um, having peoplecome out and help take care of
(30:04):
the animals, even just to letthem out and play with them.
We just want them out of thekennels, so that's a huge thing.
We have a fenced-in yard andstuff so that they can just play
with them or hang out with thecats, it doesn't matter.
We just want some love on theseanimals and then people can
(30:25):
donate as well on the website.
We have no staff.
I'm volunteer, so it all goesto taking care of the animals.
What they would want a victimleaving domestic violence to
know, like what would their onepiece of advice be?
(30:46):
So for you, what would you wantthem to know the most about,
like what you offer and theprocess of leaving?
I guess, like the first thingis just like they're so strong.
I feel like they really don'tsee that a lot, and working with
(31:06):
survivors, I've just realizedhow incredibly strong they are
and just yeah, leaving ingeneral is a huge, massive step
and I hope that we can help them.
I know, like locally, but Ireally hope that there's someone
(31:27):
out there that's willing tohelp with pets and all of that,
trying to make it so you don'thave to go back.
Yeah Well, thank you so much formeeting with me today.
Your mission and your supportof victims and survivors really
does change lives.
Mission and your support ofvictims and survivors really
does change lives, and I hopethat you are able to celebrate
(31:47):
yourself and sit in that for alittle bit, because you really
are saving lives more than justthe person leaving, the ones who
may be forgotten in the processas well.
So thank you so much for whatyou do and for meeting with me
today.
Thank you, I do have a questionfor you.
(32:08):
Yeah, so I have been listenedto.
You know all of the stories andstuff, but when are you going
to share your story?
Tomorrow, okay, yeah, Tomorrow.
I have been I don't know if youcan see like I've been breaking
(32:28):
out like crazy because I just Idon't know like you know, like
the body keeps the score, Iguess, and so like having to
write out the things that havehappened and kind of recount
these, these things, has reallyjust kind of shown up on my face
, which sucks.
But also I'm ready to just likeput it out into the world, into
(32:51):
the wild and say, here it is,here you go.
I kind of feel I do feel badnot sharing in the first season
because I really wasn't sure Ididn't get the full gravity and
heaviness that comes withsharing a story.
Um, I just wanted to givesurvivors a platform and then I
(33:17):
was like, yeah, I, I should dothis, I should do this too, like
I asked these people to do this, so I should.
And now I'm like, whoo, we needlike a full self care routine
that goes out the night beforean interview for real, because
that's thank you for asking thatquestion.
But yeah, it'll be tomorrow andI just did a poll on my social
(33:41):
media of like, should I do themin one part or two parts, and
unanimously two parts one?
So it'll be a two part seriesBecause I guess I don't want to
throw too much at you at once.
But yeah, I like hearing partsof your stories and stuff.
I wondered and then just yeah,what led you to this?
(34:01):
I think that the biggest thing,um, and then just yeah, what
led you to this?
I think that the biggest thing,like the thing I always think
about, is I would love forHope's Second Chance to not
exist.
Like, I would absolutely loveto figure out a way to stop this
from happening.
And I think you doing thestories is a really cool way to
kind of look at that too.
I don't know how much likeresearch and stuff has been done
(34:22):
, but like to look at thesimilarities, and you know all
of that stuff through thesestories, um, has been really,
really interesting too.
I I wondered about that withsome of the things you've shared
what your, what your story was.
So I'm excited to listen tothat.
Um, I think what you're doing isa really cool thing, um, and
(34:43):
necessary.
I know so many survivors, um,and a lot of them haven't shared
their stories and don't likepeople don't know about it, um,
that they've gone through thatand it's like I said, it's such
a they're so strong and peopledon't necessarily realize what
they've been through and theirstrength that they have.
So, um, yeah, it's a very coolseries.
(35:05):
Thank you, um.
When people ask me like whereshould I start, I always say
survival similarities.
Um, just because it's a comp,it's a combination of every one
of the stories from season oneand I'm like that is the one I
mean all of the stories, forsure.
But, and I'm like that is theone I mean all of the stories
for sure, but that's the onethat gives me the most
(35:28):
goosebumps because it reallydoes help you understand that a
lot of the times abuses textbookand that's been so interesting
to like.
I was talking to my husbandabout it and I was like, okay,
so do they?
Do these individuals realize,like, what they're doing?
Like I just I can't comprehend.
Like, okay, so do theseindividuals realize what they're
doing?
I just can't comprehend.
Do they realize that they'refollowing this step by step.
(35:50):
Basically, is this what they'retrying to do?
I don't know.
I don't think that they do.
I don't think that they do, Imean, unless they have been a
perpetrator for years and yearsand have done this in multiple
relationships.
I don't think that they do.
I think that it's just acertain type of person yeah,
yeah, that's it.
(36:11):
Yeah, because yeah, and thenyou think like, ok, they just
got out of a bad relationship.
Do they see what they did?
And then are they going intothe next one saying, hey, I'm
going to change, and then theydon't.
I know, I just, I wish that, Iknow, I wish I could.
Sometimes I'm like, okay, tospend a day in your brain to try
(36:33):
to figure it all out would beso exhausting, but at the same
time, like, can I?
Um, it would also be aterrifying place to be.
But, yeah, I understand, I feelyou.
That is one thing that I thinklike, and that's one of the
reasons why survivors stay or goback, is because they're trying
(36:55):
to figure it out.
Like, what is wrong?
How can I help you?
Like so many times.
You know, we're such empatheticpeople that say hand me your
burdens.
Let me help you work throughthese, and that's one of the big
reasons we stay Wanting to helpthem change, or they say
they'll change and then don'tExactly.
(37:15):
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today.
I would love to, as we've beentalking, I would love to maybe,
in our emails, schedule a timefor me to just come out and
check out Hope's Second Chance.
I think it would be really cool.
Maybe I could bring my son.
(37:36):
He loves cats.
Yeah, I would love to, ifyou're up for that.
You know what's really crazy tobe able to look back on how far
I've come and to understandthat at one point I was
absolutely terrified to leaveand wondering if I should leave
(38:00):
my dogs behind, and you heard mespeak about how Kinsley somehow
, some way was able to getthrough to me and there were
many factors that played a partin me finally walking away
forever.
But knowing that her purity andher innocence was something
(38:21):
that I wanted to protect alongwith my child's, and knowing
that there's places like Hope'sSecond Chance out there in the
world, that means a lot and Iwant you to know that these
resources out there aredesignated just for you, and
there's many more like Hope'sSecond Chance.
(38:44):
There are organizations acrossthe country that will
temporarily house your petswhile you find safety, and some
places will even help cover vetbills and provide emotional care
for your animals, because, yes,they are survivors too.
So I'll drop a list ofresources in the show notes, so
(39:07):
check there if that is somethingthat you need, because your
safety and theirs matter.
And speaking of resources, thegrand opening of Tala's closet
was so much bigger than I everimagined.
I dropped an episode on Tala'slast week.
(39:31):
If you want to listen thesupport, the turnout, the
stories my heart is stillcatching up.
I feel like it's a dream.
I'm in awe, and now I've beenbombarded, in the best way, with
(39:52):
messages from people wanting toopen closets, just like Talis,
in their communities.
I'm talking about Montana toMexico, to the United Kingdom
and even South Africa.
So I've decided to take the nextfew weeks off from podcasting
(40:14):
to meet that need and to pourinto this movement that is
unfolding, unfolding.
If you're one of the peoplewho've reached out wanting to
build something similar whereyou live, I'll be hosting an
informational Zoom this Fridaynight at 8 pm Eastern, walking
you through how we did it, whatit took and what I've learned
(40:40):
along the way.
What I've learned along the way.
The link will be in the shownotes and, lastly, an update on
Tala's story.
The plea deal for her allegedabuser is scheduled for this
week and right now I'm waiting,alongside her mother, connie,
(41:04):
and the rest of her team, tofind out whether we'll be moving
forward with trial or not, andonce we know more we'll decide
on how to continue telling herstory on this podcast.
So for now, I'll speak to youagain on August 22nd.
Take care of yourselves, takecare of your animals and
(41:30):
remember the world is a betterplace because you are in it.
Thank you.
Hey, girl, welcome back to Dismissed True Stories.
Dts is a podcast for survivors,by survivors, and here we don't
just tell survivors stories toamplify voices, we also leave
advice for victims who are stillstuck in abuse to be able to
escape to.
And not only that, I break inwith sidebar commentary that
(00:39):
helps you decode and understandyour own experiences in real
time.
If you're new here, hey, I'mAlyssa, and we hold space right
here on DTS for the hard stuff,the healing stuff and everything
in between.
So on today's episode, thiswill be just a little bit
(01:04):
different from our normalbroadcast schedule, but it's
really freaking cool and I knowyou'll love it.
Today I'm talking with HaleyMcLean.
She's the founder of Hope'sSecond Chance Animal Sanctuary,
the only domestic violencerescue operation of its kind
right here in Michigan thathelps survivors leave abuse
(01:27):
without having to leave theirpets behind.
And here's what makes Haley sodamn special.
She's not a survivor ofdomestic violence herself.
She didn't live through it.
She didn't live through it, butshe saw it.
She walked into shelters whileinterviewing for jobs and saw
(01:49):
the heartbreaking reality ofsurvivors having to choose
between safety and their animals.
And instead of looking away,she did something.
She built a solution.
She filled a solution.
She filled a gap.
She created a soft landing forthe most overlooked members of
(02:10):
our families the ones with paws.
In this episode, you'll hearhow her work started during
COVID and how it evolved into afull-blown sanctuary, and why
she treats every pet likethey're her own, with love,
(02:31):
stability and a deep respect forthe trauma that they carry too.
This isn't just about animals,it's about humanity, and it's
about what happens when someonechooses to stand in the gap, and
not because they have to, butbecause they can.
(02:58):
Let's get into it.
This really means a lot to me.
I watched the video on yourwebsite.
I cried a little bit because Iwas like, oh my God, this is
just so beautiful.
Like all the help that victimswho are looking to leave can get
.
It's necessary.
Thank you for what you do.
Yeah, yeah, it's um, it's beenquite the learning experience.
(03:21):
I get it that.
That probably isn't easy either.
Like just the paperwork that'sinvolved in the beginning,
that's a lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was likethat was so much.
Luckily it was during COVID, soI had, you know, all the time
in the world, you know, notgoing out anywhere, so might as
(03:45):
well do paperwork.
I think it's been such alearning experience on life in
general and people in generaland I somehow, like I sometimes
have to catch myself and I tellmy husband to like it's a good
thing I didn't start hope secondchance before I met him because
I think I would have a reallyhard time like dating or, you
(04:05):
know, doing relationships oranything, if I knew like how
much is out there, how many badnot bad people, but like how
many abusers are out there.
And now you know, my life iskind of flooded with it.
So I see it more than you, morethan most.
Yeah, I've learned a lotthrough that too and just like
(04:26):
the strength of women or ofsurvivors, it's been a life
changer.
It is.
It's just one of those thingsthat once you know, you can't
not know, you can't look away,you can't pretend that it
doesn't happen.
So so I'm Haley McLean.
(05:07):
I have a huge passion foranimals, always have.
So I was interviewing atdifferent jobs looking for a job
in nonprofits.
That's my background.
I've always loved nonprofitorganizations and volunteering.
I grew up volunteering with WestMichigan therapy dogs and
different organizations relatedaround pets, of course, and so I
(05:32):
was interviewing at somedomestic violence shelters and
you know, walking in theirfacilities and walking around
and like, okay, some of thesewomen have to have pets, like
there has to be animals in someof these houses and so I would
ask, like you have to ask aquestion or whatever, yeah, and
(05:53):
I was like, what happens tothese animals and they?
You know, I had a coupledifferent interviews and they
kept telling me, like differentthings, but basically the
liability that's involved, theallergies, because allergies,
because they have, you know,many women in their houses and
kids, um, so the liability ofanimals being around and is just
too much of a risk they have.
(06:14):
They're already full um, and toallow pets in and then deal
with that extra space and, youknow, all of those extra issues
that go along with it, they justcouldn't allow it.
So they said a lot of them likeand now you can hear my dog
that's on, yeah, yes, so I theysaid that you know like a lot of
(06:35):
them will either leave theirpets behind um or they will
bring them to a shelter wherethey may never see them again.
Um, a lot of, you know, a lotof family ties are cut or friend
ties are cut because of theabuser.
So there's not much of asupport system around that
aspect and it's just been partof the course.
(06:55):
I've talked to so many that youknow they want to leave with
their pets.
They don't want to leavewithout them Because they know
like their abuser most likelywill harm those pets.
To get them back there's just ahuge need.
We're the only ones in the stateof Michigan that really focus
on the pets.
We're also the only ones thatfocus on the survivor.
(07:17):
So you know there's like thehumane societies and stuff like
that, but they focus on the petsand not on all the safety
issues that come with that.
We really want to make surethat the survivors we work with
are as safe as possible.
So we're so careful about wherewe meet them that no one's
allowed on our property.
You know all these differentthings.
(07:38):
So we take that from thesurvivor side and then the pet
side.
You know we try and make thesepets as comfortable as possible.
We understand that they'recoming from a home and they're
going back to a home.
So you know we make sure thattheir patterns are kept the same
, their foods kept the same, allof that Because we look at it
as like a boarding kind of thing, you know, we want them to be
(08:00):
as comfortable as possible goingback to their parents, their
moms and children.
So we kind of take both thoseaspects and so that's made us
the only one in Michigan thatreally has this focus and really
focus on the safety foreveryone too.
And it's, you know,transitioned along the way.
(08:21):
I've learned so much.
Each time I work with asurvivor I'm like OK, how can I
make this better?
Each time I worked with a pet,how can we make this better?
How can we make this morecomfortable?
And it's been just a huge, hugeprocess.
We started in 2020 withpaperwork and then 2021, we
offered services for the firstsurvivor in May, and then we
(08:41):
were able to purchase a kenneland another barn like a cat barn
, and so we kind of stayed openfrom there, built on, and then,
two years ago I think, webasically ran out of money.
It's super expensive.
One of the other things I hadn'treally thought of before
opening was almost all of thesepets have not seen veterinar, um
(09:04):
veterinarians, because a vetwill also see abuse.
So, um, a lot of them have notgone, or the abuser doesn't want
to spend money on the pets, um,so it we've.
We've spent a lot of money onum, spaying and neutering and
all of the all of the um,medications and shots, the
(09:27):
medications and shots and justthe basic preventative care that
they've never received, and Ididn't think about that
beforehand, so that wasexpensive.
It's interesting that you saythe basic care, because, as
you're explaining this, I'mthinking, because, as you're
explaining this, I'm thinking,wow, she's really going above
and beyond.
This isn't boarding.
(09:48):
You could look at it as you'realmost rehabilitating these pets
as well.
The survivors have to go.
They're survivors as well.
They have probably been in thesame room when these situations
are occurring.
Pets can absolutely have PTSD,and that makes me so sad that
(10:09):
you ran out of money because,like you're, you're truly taking
care of these animals Likethey're your own.
Yeah, we've.
We've had a lot live in ourhouse, much to my husband's
unhappiness.
House, much to my husband'sunhappiness, yes, I.
(10:31):
I hope that at least whilethey're here, I can provide some
stability for these animals,because I know, like we've had a
lot of survivors go back totheir abusers.
That's just, that's so common.
So I know that sometimes theseanimals may go back to the chaos
, and so I hope that whilethey're here they can have a
happy life, that's even if it'sjust for a couple of weeks, like
(10:53):
let's.
You know, give them some love.
They all want love.
They're all such loving animals.
They usually have been abusedor they've been around it.
Most of the dogs have hadhorrible issues with my husband
because he has the beard, he hasthe hat, sunglasses he wears
all the time.
(11:13):
You know he's a bigger guy,tall, it's just they see a man,
and so it's kind of good to havehim around too.
He's not necessarily he doesn'tlove the big dogs and stuff
like that.
So I think it's a good learningexperience for both the dogs
and him.
But it's so sad and I almostalways use him as a test of like
(11:38):
.
Okay, if they're completelycomfortable around him, then
they most likely haven't seen asmuch of the abuse or and or
been involved.
But if they're uncomfortable,then I immediately know okay, I
can't have many men around, Ican't have, you know, them
helping as much like I need towork more on these paths and
just hoping that they get usedto that too.
(11:59):
Yeah, they, they tell you in theways, in the ways that they can
how many counties are youserving now in Michigan?
So we started off like MidwestMichigan just because of our
location.
But when we have openings which, yeah, it depends and the story
, it depends on that as well.
(12:20):
But we have opened like to, Ithink, like 13 counties.
We've served um all the way tothe east side.
Um, usually that involves them,like the survivor, traveling to
the side for some reason familyor whatever.
But yeah, we kind of open basedon what is what we have
available.
(12:41):
Okay, um, we only have fivekennels, but you know, sometimes
we've had a couple puppies comein or like really older old
dogs in.
Those can come in the house andstuff, depending on their
attitude.
So you know just what we needto allow.
Yeah, it seems like you justyou try to make it work, if you
can try to make it work.
(13:01):
Yeah, how do you feel that yourmission, if it has, how do you
feel like it's evolved sinceyou've started?
Yeah, you know that I think haspretty much stayed the same
Through all of it.
We have definitely started.
I didn't realize how unique wewere, but other than that, like
(13:22):
we've really stuck to ourmission, just just house pets
temporarily so that thesurvivors can leave.
There's so much more involvedin that just because of each
survivor being different, eachcircumstance being different,
but we've really just we justwant to help the survivors and
(13:45):
their pets.
Can you walk me through theprocess of, let's say, you're a
victim, you're looking to leave,maybe you found a safe place,
but you cannot bring your pet.
So how can you walk us throughthat process of what that victim
could expect?
We've been closed for like twoyears.
We're reopening very soon, atleast to cats, but basically, I
(14:09):
mean, I've had people contactingme the whole time,
unfortunately, but we just havea form on our website.
Um, usually they reach out tome first and you know we talk
through it.
Um, it's okay, I like it.
It just adds to the interviewand that website is hopes,
second chanceorg, second beingum, the number two, nd, yes, nd,
(14:35):
yep, um, so yeah, they can just.
Usually they reach out to mefirst, um, and then I'll refer
them to the website.
Um, we do get a lot of peoplecalling for other circumstances.
Um, we only help pets ofdomestic violence survivors,
that's it.
Because there is such a need,we can't help others.
(15:01):
So I get a lot of calls andthen I, you know, depending on
all the circumstances, I'll sendthem to the website, fill out
the form.
We'll figure out a time to meetbased on when they're leaving
or what you know.
Sometimes they're allowed tohave the pets for a couple days
and then they have to surrenderthem, um, so they sign over
their pets to me, to a lot, well, to the organization, um, to
(15:22):
allow us to do all the vettingand everything like that, um.
But then they get the petsright back once they're ready.
So it's all through lots ofcommunication with them and me,
um, throughout the time that thepets are here, I love to send
pictures and updates, and youknow all of that because I know
it's such a struggle to trust acomplete stranger with your
animals.
(15:44):
So, yeah, it's really basic.
We meet up, transfer the animal, they say goodbye and then I
take them for however long isneeded and as long as they're in
communication with me, we holdthe pet for them and give them
back.
We have had a few besurrendered or where the
survivor kind of ghosts us,which then we have to find a new
(16:05):
home.
But yeah, other than that, it'ssuper simple.
We try to make it as flawlessas possible so that this is one
less thing they have to worryabout?
Yeah, so what does the vettingprocess look like for the
survivor?
Yeah, so it's basically justlooking at why they need housing
for the dogs or cats, um, andtheir location, um kind of thing
(16:32):
, and we don't if or and likehow we're going to be able to
meet and stuff like that.
Also, you know, the the idea isfor three months.
The average is three months.
If they're looking at like, oh,it's going to be a year or
something, we would just suggestthat they, you know, do
surrender them to a humanesociety or shelter rescue,
(16:55):
because at that point that's nothealthy for the animals either.
And since you've started, haveyou only taken dogs and cats or
are you open to taking any kindof other pet?
So we have only had cats anddogs, but we are able to take in
any animal pretty much.
(17:15):
I will not personally take careof, like lizards and snakes and
stuff, but I do have volunteers.
But pretty much any animal I'veheard of, you know, like horses
and stuff like that.
We haven't had that need, butwe are able to do that.
That's incredible because I,even as a survivor of domestic
(17:37):
violence, I've never owned ahorse.
I always wanted one.
I was one of those girls askingfor a pony or a horse when I
was younger for my birthday.
But you don't think aboutbecause I had two dogs when I
left.
But you don't think about thoselarger animals.
If you are a horse owner,that's not something that you
(17:58):
can just pick up and go.
I'd honestly, had never eventhought of that.
And the fact that you're opento that that's incredible.
We understand like you couldhave a connection with any I
mean any of the animals andstuff like that, and an abuser
can use any type of animalagainst the survivor.
So we want to help with that.
(18:19):
Our hope is that because we areable to let them escape with
their animals, that they're morelikely to not go back.
Yes, multiple times, yes.
Do you work with any other likeshelters or organizations, not
just in Michigan but maybeacross the nation, organizations
, not just in Michigan but maybeacross the nation?
We work with pretty much allthe local domestic violence
(18:40):
shelters more on a referralbasis.
They you know, so they knowabout us, we know about them.
That's kind of the connectionwe see there.
We have been in contact withthere's a large organization
somewhat similar to us inGeorgia, so we work with them,
and then Red Rover in California.
(19:04):
We've received one of theirgrants and stuff like that.
Yeah, just kind of trying toshare resources and stuff.
It's been touch and go with,you know, georgia, just trying
to reach out because this is myvolunteer job, so you know
timing and everything hasdefinitely been a struggle to
focus on this.
But, yeah, there's a few thatwe work with, but it's tough to
(19:31):
create something new, to createsomething new.
So I'm I'm wondering I wascurious, um, as I was uh, doing
some research on you, is thereany sort of like database for
services and organizations likeyours where victims can look
into?
Um, just because I, thispodcast is so, is there any type
(19:56):
of database that you know of, Ibelieve the national now I
can't even think what it standsfor National something of
domestic violence survivors?
Yes, they have some stuff likethat, some lists.
I know like a lot of thoseWe've been found on Google.
Um, that's kind of how some ofour survivors we are not on any
(20:21):
list because we are, when we'reopen, we fill up immediately,
okay, um, just withoutadvertising or anything but um,
so I haven't had to really lookinto that, but I think, um, like
I know that the state ofMichigan has like domestic
violence survivor lists andtheir resources, and then also,
(20:41):
I think the national one doestoo.
Now you said that you would keeppets for like upwards to three
months usually longer if, um, ifa survivor needs to Yep, we've
had dogs up to six months andshe was contacting me once a
(21:02):
week just letting me know she'sstill there, she's still working
on it.
We've also had a pit bull for awhile and she was struggling to
find housing because of itbeing a pit.
So there's things like that aswell.
But, yeah, and we've had petsfor like a week.
So it just it really varies.
(21:23):
Yeah, I mean it is.
It is difficult.
I know that.
When I finally found safety sojust a little bit about me and
my story I ended up leaving withjust a laundry basket full of
clothes and my toddler and mydogs and we were staying in my
car for a while.
And then I had found anothersingle mom to move in with and
(21:46):
we moved into her basement butshe was not allowed to have pets
on her property because she wasrenting, and so, luckily, my
parents came and got my dogs,but I was working three jobs and
I was not able to fully cut,just because I don't know if you
(22:08):
know this, but 98% of abusiverelationships also include
financial abuse.
So when I left, I left withover $10,000 in debt.
So trying to get back onto myfeet like that, working three
jobs, it still took me a year tofinally be able to afford my
(22:30):
own apartment.
And I'm sure it's just case bycase for you and getting to form
a relationship with thatsurvivor as well.
Yeah, and it definitely too,depends on how the pets are
doing.
We've had some deteriorate alittle bit and we can definitely
see that.
So if you know, if the dog wasstruggling and cats don't care
(22:52):
as much, typical was strugglingthat would also be like, okay,
you need to figure somethingelse out because they can't be
in this environment.
So, yes, definitely case bycase of what's going on and
usually like, to some extent, atthat point there's a connection
(23:15):
made or something else wheresomeone else is able to help and
maybe let the pets live in ahouse somewhere, even if it's
still not with their survivor.
It's, you know, just a littlebit better of a situation,
because we do have and we doallow the pets inside, but also
it is kennels.
Um, it's, you know a heated,air conditioned barn and they
have, you know, beds and all ofthat, but it is a kennel um with
(23:38):
multiple dogs.
So, um, some animals dostruggle with that.
So some animals do strugglewith that.
My dog was one of the reasonsthat I finally woke up and said,
ok, I got to go.
There were many reasons and Ithink they all just kind of
happened at once for me.
So one of the things that Istarted doing before I left
(24:03):
abuse was I decided I had tostart listening to my inner
voice and shutting out all thenoise.
And how I did that was I wouldtake my dogs on a walk, no phone
, every morning.
And as I started to watch mygirl her name's Kins just become
so happy getting out of thathouse, she was validating for me
(24:26):
Like it's not, it's not just mefeeling this, and so now that I
got her back, I see the samesort of symptoms in her as I do
in me when it comes to, like,our healing process and having
PTSD and being so scared incertain situations, and we've
(24:48):
definitely helped each otherheal.
Do you see something like thatin other pets and how do you
help them?
Some of that is just providingas much love as we can, watching
their behaviors, watchingwhat's going on, showing them
that they are in a safe space,um, that you know nothing's
(25:11):
gonna happen to them here, um,and then slowly like trying to
show them other people as well,um, and just the the love that
others can provide and, um,trying to keep.
You know we try and have musicon in the kennels and just like
a soothing I have all my dogsright here, it's okay A soothing
(25:33):
environment as much as possible.
We do a lot of like the calmingdiffusers and stuff like that
to try and just make them feelsafe in the moment.
Unfortunately, you know, oncethey leave, there's not as much
as I can provide with helpingwith that, but I hope that the
(25:54):
survivor continues that andusually you know, like that's
all they want.
They love their pets.
That's why they took them withthem, so it's just hoping that
they'll stay out of thatsituation again.
Exactly, and a lot of the times, you know, our pets provide
emotional support and safety forus as well.
Again, a lot of them.
(26:15):
I've talked to many survivorsthat have been like nope, my
pets were not abused, and they,that pet is still like, so
reactive.
So, um, even if the pet hasn'tbeen abused, they've seen the
reaction of the survivor, um,and so you know, kind of getting
that to calm down a little bittoo, but they're feeling it, um,
(26:37):
they're.
When they see, you know, theirmom get abused, they feel it too
, um.
So there's a lot of that aswell, of just trying to
understand, like, okay, they maynot have been hurt, but they
see it, they know that, they canfeel it from the owners.
So, yeah, yeah, what has beenone of the most meaningful
experiences that you've hadthrough running the sanctuary.
(27:02):
I think it probably was my firstsurvivor.
She was coming from anotherstate but she was moving into
one of the counties we serve and, because she was the first, I
didn't have any other pets.
She had two pets and these dogswere incredible.
They're massive.
(27:23):
This one was a massive dog.
They were the sweetest things.
But I also, because it was justthem, her and I met up quite a
bit so she could see the dogsthrough the process and I
learned so much from her I'mjust talking to her and she was
so strong and I learned, youknow, like, um, her dad hadn't
(27:47):
been the best and then everyrelationship she had had had all
been abusive and you know justthe the not realizing what, that
there are good people, thereare good guys out there and
stuff like that.
She was used to that abuse, um,and then how strong she was to
completely leave.
She moved to michigan to livewith a friend.
(28:08):
Like she didn't have familyhere, she didn't have anything,
um, and she ended up buying ahouse and within the the few
months that I had the dogs, shebought a house.
She was working on adopting acouple kids that she had been
living with and taking care ofUm, and then to see her with the
dogs once they came back, likeit was just, it was so cool the
(28:29):
dogs could have cared less thatI was there, um, and that's some
of it too.
Like, I don't necessarily wanta connection with the dogs.
I try not to have that becauseit's, you know, bad on both our
parts.
But, um, they were just sohappy to be with their mom and
she was just so, so strong.
So I really learned a lot fromher and her dogs, so that was
(28:51):
probably the best experience.
Mm-hmm, I know that you aregetting ready to open.
I've seen that you've beenworking on a different
fundraising initiatives as well.
But how can, if anybody feelscalled to, how can?
Um, we help support yourmission?
Yeah, so our website providesall that information again, um,
(29:16):
we would love fosters.
Again, we've struggled to findfosters because there are so
many pets right now through allthe humane societies and rescues
that need fostering and I thinkthe fosters are kind of few and
far in between, and we need avery specific house because, you
know, it can't be chaotic.
A lot of these pets we don'tknow how they are with children
(29:40):
Most children, most of them arereally good, but, um, you know,
we just want a very safe andquiet and comfortable place and,
um, a lot of them haven't beenaround other pets.
So, you know, there's just weneed, we need, like the unicorn,
fosters basically, and sofostering is great, volunteering
is great, um, having peoplecome out and help take care of
(30:04):
the animals, even just to letthem out and play with them.
We just want them out of thekennels, so that's a huge thing.
We have a fenced-in yard andstuff so that they can just play
with them or hang out with thecats, it doesn't matter.
We just want some love on theseanimals and then people can
(30:25):
donate as well on the website.
We have no staff.
I'm volunteer, so it all goesto taking care of the animals.
What they would want a victimleaving domestic violence to
know, like what would their onepiece of advice be?
(30:46):
So for you, what would you wantthem to know the most about,
like what you offer and theprocess of leaving?
I guess, like the first thingis just like they're so strong.
I feel like they really don'tsee that a lot, and working with
(31:06):
survivors, I've just realizedhow incredibly strong they are
and just yeah, leaving ingeneral is a huge, massive step
and I hope that we can help them.
I know, like locally, but Ireally hope that there's someone
(31:27):
out there that's willing tohelp with pets and all of that,
trying to make it so you don'thave to go back.
Yeah Well, thank you so much formeeting with me today.
Your mission and your supportof victims and survivors really
does change lives.
Mission and your support ofvictims and survivors really
does change lives, and I hopethat you are able to celebrate
(31:47):
yourself and sit in that for alittle bit, because you really
are saving lives more than justthe person leaving, the ones who
may be forgotten in the processas well.
So thank you so much for whatyou do and for meeting with me
today.
Thank you, I do have a questionfor you.
(32:08):
Yeah, so I have been listenedto.
You know all of the stories andstuff, but when are you going
to share your story?
Tomorrow, okay, yeah, Tomorrow.
I have been I don't know if youcan see like I've been breaking
(32:28):
out like crazy because I just Idon't know like you know, like
the body keeps the score, Iguess, and so like having to
write out the things that havehappened and kind of recount
these, these things, has reallyjust kind of shown up on my face
, which sucks.
But also I'm ready to just likeput it out into the world, into
(32:51):
the wild and say, here it is,here you go.
I kind of feel I do feel badnot sharing in the first season
because I really wasn't sure Ididn't get the full gravity and
heaviness that comes withsharing a story.
Um, I just wanted to givesurvivors a platform and then I
(33:17):
was like, yeah, I, I should dothis, I should do this too, like
I asked these people to do this, so I should.
And now I'm like, whoo, we needlike a full self care routine
that goes out the night beforean interview for real, because
that's thank you for asking thatquestion.
But yeah, it'll be tomorrow andI just did a poll on my social
(33:41):
media of like, should I do themin one part or two parts, and
unanimously two parts one?
So it'll be a two part seriesBecause I guess I don't want to
throw too much at you at once.
But yeah, I like hearing partsof your stories and stuff.
I wondered and then just yeah,what led you to this?
(34:01):
I think that the biggest thing,um, and then just yeah, what
led you to this?
I think that the biggest thing,like the thing I always think
about, is I would love forHope's Second Chance to not
exist.
Like, I would absolutely loveto figure out a way to stop this
from happening.
And I think you doing thestories is a really cool way to
kind of look at that too.
I don't know how much likeresearch and stuff has been done
(34:22):
, but like to look at thesimilarities, and you know all
of that stuff through thesestories, um, has been really,
really interesting too.
I I wondered about that withsome of the things you've shared
what your, what your story was.
So I'm excited to listen tothat.
Um, I think what you're doing isa really cool thing, um, and
(34:43):
necessary.
I know so many survivors, um,and a lot of them haven't shared
their stories and don't likepeople don't know about it, um,
that they've gone through thatand it's like I said, it's such
a they're so strong and peopledon't necessarily realize what
they've been through and theirstrength that they have.
So, um, yeah, it's a very coolseries.
(35:05):
Thank you, um.
When people ask me like whereshould I start, I always say
survival similarities.
Um, just because it's a comp,it's a combination of every one
of the stories from season oneand I'm like that is the one I
mean all of the stories, forsure.
But, and I'm like that is theone I mean all of the stories
for sure, but that's the onethat gives me the most
(35:28):
goosebumps because it reallydoes help you understand that a
lot of the times abuses textbookand that's been so interesting
to like.
I was talking to my husbandabout it and I was like, okay,
so do they?
Do these individuals realize,like, what they're doing?
Like I just I can't comprehend.
Like, okay, so do theseindividuals realize what they're
doing?
I just can't comprehend.
Do they realize that they'refollowing this step by step.
(35:50):
Basically, is this what they'retrying to do?
I don't know.
I don't think that they do.
I don't think that they do, Imean, unless they have been a
perpetrator for years and yearsand have done this in multiple
relationships.
I don't think that they do.
I think that it's just acertain type of person yeah,
yeah, that's it.
(36:11):
Yeah, because yeah, and thenyou think like, ok, they just
got out of a bad relationship.
Do they see what they did?
And then are they going intothe next one saying, hey, I'm
going to change, and then theydon't.
I know, I just, I wish that, Iknow, I wish I could.
Sometimes I'm like, okay, tospend a day in your brain to try
(36:33):
to figure it all out would beso exhausting, but at the same
time, like, can I?
Um, it would also be aterrifying place to be.
But, yeah, I understand, I feelyou.
That is one thing that I thinklike, and that's one of the
reasons why survivors stay or goback, is because they're trying
(36:55):
to figure it out.
Like, what is wrong?
How can I help you?
Like so many times.
You know, we're such empatheticpeople that say hand me your
burdens.
Let me help you work throughthese, and that's one of the big
reasons we stay Wanting to helpthem change, or they say
they'll change and then don'tExactly.
(37:15):
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today.
I would love to, as we've beentalking, I would love to maybe,
in our emails, schedule a timefor me to just come out and
check out Hope's Second Chance.
I think it would be really cool.
Maybe I could bring my son.
(37:36):
He loves cats.
Yeah, I would love to, ifyou're up for that.
You know what's really crazy tobe able to look back on how far
I've come and to understandthat at one point I was
absolutely terrified to leaveand wondering if I should leave
(38:00):
my dogs behind, and you heard mespeak about how Kinsley somehow
, some way was able to getthrough to me and there were
many factors that played a partin me finally walking away
forever.
But knowing that her purity andher innocence was something
(38:21):
that I wanted to protect alongwith my child's, and knowing
that there's places like Hope'sSecond Chance out there in the
world, that means a lot and Iwant you to know that these
resources out there aredesignated just for you, and
there's many more like Hope'sSecond Chance.
(38:44):
There are organizations acrossthe country that will
temporarily house your petswhile you find safety, and some
places will even help cover vetbills and provide emotional care
for your animals, because, yes,they are survivors too.
So I'll drop a list ofresources in the show notes, so
(39:07):
check there if that is somethingthat you need, because your
safety and theirs matter.
And speaking of resources, thegrand opening of Tala's closet
was so much bigger than I everimagined.
I dropped an episode on Tala'slast week.
(39:31):
If you want to listen thesupport, the turnout, the
stories my heart is stillcatching up.
I feel like it's a dream.
I'm in awe, and now I've beenbombarded, in the best way, with
(39:52):
messages from people wanting toopen closets, just like Talis,
in their communities.
I'm talking about Montana toMexico, to the United Kingdom
and even South Africa.
So I've decided to take the nextfew weeks off from podcasting
(40:14):
to meet that need and to pourinto this movement that is
unfolding, unfolding.
If you're one of the peoplewho've reached out wanting to
build something similar whereyou live, I'll be hosting an
informational Zoom this Fridaynight at 8 pm Eastern, walking
you through how we did it, whatit took and what I've learned
(40:40):
along the way.
What I've learned along the way.
The link will be in the shownotes and, lastly, an update on
Tala's story.
The plea deal for her allegedabuser is scheduled for this
week and right now I'm waiting,alongside her mother, connie,
(41:04):
and the rest of her team, tofind out whether we'll be moving
forward with trial or not, andonce we know more we'll decide
on how to continue telling herstory on this podcast.
So for now, I'll speak to youagain on August 22nd.
Take care of yourselves, takecare of your animals and
(41:30):
remember the world is a betterplace because you are in it.
Thank you.
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