October 17, 2025 • 28 mins
The house was empty, the texts unanswered, and the silence said everything. After exposing a devastating betrayal—her husband’s affair with her mother—Sarah tried to rebuild the “right” way: a prepaid year of rent, a steady job, a car, and a simple plan to co‑parent. What followed maps the hidden terrain many survivors know too well: when direct control ends, post‑separation abuse slips into new uniforms—rumors, court filings, custody leverage, and a “civil matter” that keeps you paying to be heard.
We walk through the playbook. A smear from someone tied to law enforcement turns gossip into “fact.” A protection order becomes a wall between a mother and her children. Each court date bleeds savings. Each knock on a family door goes ignored. Then a single workplace policy violation triggers job loss; the title loan eats the car after a breakdown; rent runs out. Hunger narrows choices until the only option left is the one most people don’t want to understand: survival sex framed as a last, painful way to afford a lawyer and claw back access to her kids. It’s not glamour. It’s the economics of trauma meeting the bureaucracy of custody.
We also name the psychology underneath. When lies come from the people who raised and married you, red flags blur; danger can feel like care. Sarah’s clarity grows as she traces gaslighting, coercive control, and the difference between discipline and abuse. Along the way, we offer language for what’s happening—post‑separation abuse, systems abuse, reputational harm—so listeners can spot it in their lives and communities. And we point to concrete supports: hotlines, documentation, trauma‑informed strategy, and a verified GoFundMe to help Sarah secure safety as her former abuser nears release.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
This episode contains discussions of domestic
violence, homelessness, sexualexploitation, and survival sex.
Listener discretion is stronglyadvised.
These stories shared in thisepisode are told from the
first-hand perspective of asurvivor.
Some details have been changedor omitted to protect the safety
and privacy of those involved.
(00:21):
This podcast does not condone orpromote illegal activity of any
kind.
Any mention of survival sex, sexwork, or criminalized behavior
is presented solely for thepurpose of understanding trauma,
systematic failure, and thecomplex realities survivors face
when navigating abuse andpoverty.
Our goal is to neversensationalize these
(00:42):
experiences, but to shed lighton the difficult choices people
are often forced to make whenevery system has failed them.
If you or someone you know isexperiencing abuse or
exploitation, you can call theNational Domestic Violence
Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE.
That's 7233.
Or text START to 8878.
(01:05):
You can also reach the NationalHuman Trafficking Hotline at
1-800-373-7888, or text HELP to233-733.
Both are free, confidential, andavailable 24-7.
Dismiss True Stories is anindependent documentary podcast
(01:25):
created to educate, empower, andadvocate for survivors of
domestic violence and coercivecontrol.
(01:54):
Thank you so much for comingback and continuing to support
Sarah and her fight for freedomand safety.
So, just to quick recap what youheard last week, we learned how
Sarah's world came crashing downwhen she discovered that the two
people that she thought shecould trust the most, that she
(02:16):
was closest to her husband andher mother, were having an
affair.
What began as a suspicion turnedinto a devastating truth when
she uncovered by accident theirlives and their deceit.
When Sarah confronted them, ofcourse, they denied it.
They gaslit her, they made herquestion her own sanity because
(02:37):
they can't continue what they'redoing if she's not confused
about it, right?
And the betrayal didn't just endher marriage, it fractured her
family and her sense of safetyall over again.
And this episode picks up in theaftermath of that discovery.
When Sarah is trying to rebuild,trying to stand on her own to
(02:57):
create a life outside of all thechaos that she thought she had
left behind.
But of course, she soon findsout that even when the
relationship ends, the abusedoesn't.
It just changes form.
And before we begin, just aquick note.
For safety reasons, some namesand identifying details in this
(03:20):
episode have been changed.
These are not legal names thatwe're using in this episode.
You'll also notice that parts ofthis interview, uh, it sounds a
little different.
So this was the very firstconversation that Sarah and I
recorded over the phone.
So there is some backgroundnoise and some feedback that I
couldn't completely remove.
(03:42):
Believe me, I tried my best.
Um I decided to keep it becausewhat Sarah shares in this
interview is powerful and deeplyimportant to understanding her
story.
So I ask for your patience onthe sound quality of this
episode and for your grace forthe weight of what we're about
to unpack here.
This episode includesdiscussions of domestic
(04:04):
violence, homelessness, andsexual exploitation.
Listener discretion is advised.
Again, I'm Elissa, and this isDismissed.
True stories.
The cost of survival.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Yeah, I thought that that was gonna be the answer to
my suffering.
I thought that I was gonna beable to take that money.
I did get my own place.
I paid a year worth of rent upfront.
I bought a vehicle for myself.
Um, it was paid off.
I stocked up my house withgroceries.
(05:15):
I paid my utilities in advance.
I did everything I could tobudget that money to set myself
up for success.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
Did you feel like life was, you said you f it felt
like freedom.
Did you feel like your life wasfinally turning a corner?
Like, yes, like I'm on the rightpath now.
SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, I had gotten a job as anassistant manager at a store in
the mall.
You know, I was just like, I'mgonna be able to figure this
out.
I can be independent, I can makeit work.
SPEAKER_03 (05:41):
And did anyone around you support this
newsstart, or were you buildingover completely from scratch?
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Completely from scratch.
I really didn't have anybody atthat time.
SPEAKER_03 (05:52):
And you mentioned trying to co-parent peacefully.
What were those first few monthslike before things just like
truly unraveled?
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
He was begging me to go to marriage counseling with
him.
He kept saying we can work itout, we can figure it out.
And I was like, you know, therethere's really no coming back
from you having an affair withmy mom for years and you know,
before, during, and after mysecond second pregnancy, it was
like, no, there's no recoveringfrom that.
(06:24):
It wasn't just some girl, itwasn't somebody that he knew
from his past.
Your mom.
It was my mom.
So there was really no gettingover that for me.
SPEAKER_03 (06:35):
When you ended things with him, did you also
end things with your mom?
SPEAKER_02 (06:39):
Yeah.
So initially I told her, like,you're dead to me, you're never
gonna see my kids again.
We are done here, there'snothing to discuss.
Um, I'm moving on and I don'twant you in my life at all.
And um, I thought I was gonna beable to figure everything out on
my own.
I purposely moved just 10minutes away from where Freddy
and I were living at the timebecause I thought the closer
(07:00):
that I was, that the easier itwould be to co-parent.
During the summer, we did finewith the co-parenting.
We were able to work things outwhen the school year started to
roll around.
That's when I said, you know, Ireally think the kids should go
to school from my addressbecause, you know, I have to
work full-time now to supportmyself.
You know, I'm trying to workmainly during school hours.
(07:21):
So mornings and evenings arereally gonna be the only time
that I'm gonna be available tospend with the kids because I
have to work.
And at the time he was gettingdisability, he got injured um in
the line of duty and he had tohave back surgery.
So he was staying at home fulltime and he was getting a
disability check every month.
You know, I was like, we candefinitely figure this out.
(07:42):
Like, even if you do want topick them up from school and
keep them overnight, I'm fine.
We can we can flip-flop back andforth, we can make it work.
You know, I'm not trying to keepyou from the kids.
I don't want to have anyarguments.
Like, we can be adults and wecan figure it out.
And he said, No, the kids needto go to school for my address.
And I'm like, Well, why?
You you're at home all day,every day.
(08:03):
Like, that's gonna make itincredibly difficult for me to
get any time with the kids.
So why don't you why don't youthink that they should go to
school for my address?
And he's like, Well, I just II'm just not gonna let that
happen.
It was one day that I wassupposed to go pick up the kids,
so I drove over to the duplexthat he was living in that we
were living in togetherpreviously, and I knocked on the
(08:25):
door and nobody answered.
And so I looked through thewindow and it was completely
empty.
And he just stopped answering myphone calls, wouldn't respond to
any of my text messages.
I had no idea where they were.
SPEAKER_03 (08:38):
Can you walk me through that day though, when
you're looking in the windowsand there's nothing there?
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
I mean, I'm just heartbroken, confused, scared, a
lot of things.
Angry, just very, very upset.
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
Were you were you like calling him on repeat?
Did you show up to his mom's?
I did file a report.
All of the things.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
Yeah, all of the things.
All the things.
SPEAKER_03 (09:09):
Um the police worked for that in the police
department.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
Yeah.
He definitely used that to hisadvantage, of course.
And you know, every time that Icalled the police on him, they
would say, Well, ma'am, it's acivil issue.
You're gonna have to take himback to court.
That was just a two-yearnightmare of back and forth,
back and forth, back and forthto court.
He was literally as difficult ashe could possibly be.
SPEAKER_03 (09:34):
When Sarah showed up to that duplex and found it
completely empty, it wasn't justthe silence that hit her.
It was a realization that herabuser had found a brand new way
to hurt her.
This is what is calledpost-separation abuse.
And it's what happens when anabuser can no longer control you
directly.
So they find new ways to do itthrough your children, your
(09:57):
finances, your reputation, oreven the legal system itself.
He had started telling everyonethat Sarah was a drug addict, a
lie that spread fast in a smalltown, especially when it came
from someone who worked insidethe police department.
Even his own mother believedhim.
And then he weaponized thesystem.
(10:18):
He used the courts as anotherform of abuse, filing a
protection order to keep Sarahaway from her own kids, dragging
her through hearings that shecould barely afford, knowing
each appearance would drain hera little more.
This kind of abuse doesn't stopwhen you leave, it just changes
form.
(10:39):
It puts on a badge, it hidesbehind paperwork.
It tells the world that it'sprotecting the children when
really it's protecting control.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
He told her that I was the one who left and I
abandoned the kids.
I left him with the kids becauseyou know, a financially stable
ex-wife with stable plans reallydidn't fit into his poor me
(11:14):
victim mentality.
Yes, absolutely.
So um, you know, he convincedeverybody that I was on drugs
and I ran off, I disappeared, Ididn't care about the kids, I
abandoned them completely.
His family believed it.
I still didn't know where helived or what was going on with
the kids.
(11:34):
The only thing that I knew to dowas to just constantly show up
at his mother's house and Iwould show up, I would bet knock
on the door, I would beg at thedoor, please let me know that
you know that my kids are okay.
Please let me know that they'resafe.
Please let me know that they arebeing taken care of.
I haven't seen them in days orweeks or months.
(11:56):
How you know, uh, each time Iarrived at the house, I knew she
was home and she would notanswer the door.
Or if she did answer the door,she would tell me to get off
drugs and get my life together.
I'm leaving clothes and shoesfor my kids, toys, books,
groceries, even.
I'm literally doing everything Ican to make sure that I'm still
(12:18):
supporting them in some sort ofway, even with no communication,
even with no way of knowing howthey were actually doing, where
they were staying, what theywere living through.
It was one of the hardest timesof my life.
SPEAKER_03 (12:32):
Did you have anyone, like friends, neighbors, or even
just like one police officer whowas willing to help you look for
your kids?
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
No.
It was just me.
SPEAKER_03 (12:41):
And what was keeping you going through like that time
that you weren't?
SPEAKER_02 (12:45):
My kids.
Just the fact that I wanted themback so bad and that I wasn't
sure how well they were beingtaken care of or what was going
on with with his wholesituation.
I just knew that he was abusive.
SPEAKER_03 (13:01):
He was abusive how?
Because I don't believe thatthat we've touched on that yet.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
Um, there was several times where, you know,
how kids like act out or have atemper tantrum or whatever, he
would try to spank him.
There was one time that he wasspanking him, and my son was
like, he wasn't gonna calm downand he wasn't gonna stop
throwing a fit because he wasn'tgetting his way.
Being beaten for it wasn'thelping the situation at all.
(13:29):
Like he still felt the same waythat he felt.
I'm not sure.
It's been so long.
I can't even remember what hewas upset about.
You know, Freddie just kepthitting him and kept hitting
him, and I'm like, you're justabusing him at this point
because doing anything, likeit's not working.
You're not disciplining him,you're just beating him.
I was worried about them a lot.
It turns out I had very goodreason to be worried.
(13:51):
Um, because found out later thatthey were abused a lot during
that time frame where I was notable to see them mentally,
emotionally, physically.
It was pretty bad.
It was pretty bad.
SPEAKER_03 (14:04):
My heart breaks for Sarah for a million different
reasons, but right here, it doesseem like she's doing everything
right.
She had finally caught in abreak, an inheritance from her
grandfather that she poured intoa brand new start, a brand new
life.
She paid her rent a year inadvance, she stocked her pantry,
she bought a car.
She was being responsible andhopeful even.
(14:28):
But sometimes for women leavingabuse, there always seems to be
those strings attached to goodfortune, you know, like
stability doesn't really stickwhen you're fighting an entire
system that is built todiscredit you.
Because while she was budgetingand rebuilding, her ex was
quietly draining her, using thecourts to bleed out every dollar
(14:50):
that she had left, using rumorsto make her look unfit, and
using their children as leverageto keep control.
And in the middle of all of it,Sarah was alone.
She was surrounded by people whohad already decided what kind of
woman she was, but not oneperson willing to ask if that
was true.
This pattern in Sarah's lifekept repeating.
(15:13):
Every time she reached forpeace, it slipped through her
fingers.
And this time, that fall wouldcost her everything that she'd
worked to rebuild.
SPEAKER_02 (15:26):
So when I had received that inheritance, like
I said, I paid a year worth ofrent up front, I purchased a
vehicle, I paid my bills up, Ihad gotten a new job.
I ended up getting fired from myjob at the mall because we had a
shoplifter in the store.
I didn't like follow them out ofthe store into the mall, but I
was standing outside of thestore doors because I was on the
(15:50):
phone with mall security and Iwas trying to give them a
description of what this personlooked like, what they were
wearing, et cetera, et cetera.
Just trying to do my job andmake sure that this person who
was stealing was caught.
Well, when my boss found outwhat happened, I was immediately
fired for leaving the thresholdof the store because I was the
only manager on duty, and thatwas against their policy.
(16:14):
So I lost my job.
I only had like a couple moremonths of rent that was paid in
advance.
And now I had no income.
I tried to find other employmentand I was really struggling.
So eventually the rent ran outand I became homeless.
I went and got a title loan onmy car, desperate for money.
(16:36):
Shortly after I got the titleloan, the transmission and the
vehicle went out and it wasstranded on the side of the
highway.
So uh the title loan companycalled me and they were like,
Hey, we noticed you were behindon your payments and just call
in to check in and see what'sgoing on.
And I explained, you know, Ilost my job and now the
(16:56):
transmission in the car wentout.
It's stuck on the side of thehighway.
I can't even afford to get ittowed.
I can't afford to fix it.
I can't afford to pay the titleloan.
I really don't know what youwant me to do at this point.
So they said, well, if yousurrender the vehicle, then
we'll just call it even.
So I surrendered the vehicle andI was homeless, living out of a
(17:18):
suitcase, taking publictransportation to get around
town.
SPEAKER_03 (17:23):
After losing your job, did you have anyone at all?
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
I was dating one guy, but he was not great for
me.
He wanted to drink and party alot and things like that.
And when I lost my job and Iwasn't seeing the kids anymore,
then I kind of fell intodrinking and doing drugs with
him and just wanting to escapethose hard feelings.
(17:48):
It's like having your heartripped out of your chest, being
expected to just keep moving andkeep going with no idea how to
navigate things.
SPEAKER_03 (17:57):
After that, that's what I was wondering.
Is is during this time after youlost your job, were you actively
looking for any other jobs?
I was.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
I was.
I'm a little too honest, Isuppose, you know, because
people would ask, Well, whatmade you leave your last job?
And it's like, Well, I got firedfor trying to do my job.
I didn't know what else to say,you know.
I I didn't have any good excusesfor why I would not be in that
position anymore.
So I was honest and then nobodywanted to hire me because of it.
SPEAKER_03 (18:29):
Okay, so what about that guy?
When you started to loseeverything, did he just
disappear?
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
No, he stayed.
Um things got really bad wherelike I didn't even have toilet
paper, I didn't have hot water,uh, we didn't have groceries,
things got bad.
We were going without food.
We were just really desperate.
We started stealing to survive.
We ended up getting arrestedtogether.
I called my mom and my aunt fromjail and you know, explained I
(18:59):
got arrested for stealingbecause I was hungry.
They said, Well, you made yourbed, so you have to lie in it.
That was incredibly hurtful forme because your mother made your
bed.
But that's what narcissists do.
They project all the blame ontoyou and gaslight you into
believing that it's your fault.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
She didn't even raise you, Sara Sarah.
She pushed you to the side andexpected you to figure out life
without anyone showing you theway.
And then she turns around andblames you for not knowing when
she never did her job as amother to prepare you for life
outside of her home.
SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
And still to this day, she refuses to accept any
kind of responsibility for anyof that, continues to gaslight
me into believing that she'sbeen nothing but supportive and
that she's always taking care ofme.
And it's taken a lot of years tolearn myself and understand what
(19:57):
I went through was abuse.
When you're raised in abuse, andwhen you're raised in a
situation where you'reconstantly being gaslit, you
don't really understand thatit's not normal because you've
never lived life before.
You don't realize that um thesethings are not healthy.
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Yeah.
Until you're an adult and yougo, oh wow, that was that was
really wrong.
So yeah, it's it's been a lot todeal with and a lot to process
for a really long time.
SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
By now, Sarah has done everything a person's
supposed to do to rebuild.
She's worked, she's budgeted,she's asked for help, and still
every door keeps slamming shut.
She's hungry, she's homeless,she's been arrested for stealing
food just to eat, just to fillher belly.
And when she called home fromjail, her mother told her, You
(20:52):
made your bed, now lie in it.
But Sarah didn't make her bed,it was built for her by the
people who were supposed toprotect her, by the systems that
had failed her, and by a motherwho taught her that love had
conditions.
So by the time she got out, shewasn't just broke, she was
broken.
And when someone finally offeredher what looked like a way out,
(21:16):
she took it.
Because when the world refusesto see your humanity, you start
doing whatever it takes tosurvive.
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
During my season of desperation and homelessness and
being arrested for stealing foodand things like that, all that
mattered to me was getting mykids back by any means
necessary.
And I struggled to findemployment.
I was struggling with hunger,lack of resources, lack of
(21:46):
support.
I'm tired of being hungry.
I'm tired of hurting.
I'm tired of not knowing wheremy kids are at, tired of not
knowing if they're okay.
I need income coming in becauseI had spent the last of my
inheritance on a lawyer already.
After I became homeless, he waslike, Well, we can't move
forward until you pay some moreof the retainer that you owe.
So everything was on hold withmy custody situation until I
(22:09):
could come up with the funds.
So I did what I had to do.
I ended up turning to sex workto support myself.
Initially, I had met a girl.
She had asked me if I would everconsider it.
And I was like, you know, atthis point, I might just do just
about anything.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
It's not though that definitely wasn't my dream job,
or uh something I thought, yeah,I can't wait to grow up and be a
prostitute.
Like it list.
Yeah.
Definitely was not the plan.
But again, being homeless,staying from place to place, not
being able to shower daily,having to sleep on the floor
pretty often, not having moneyfor feminine products, for
(22:51):
toiletries, and being hungry andgetting in put in jail for
stealing food to try to eat.
So, yeah, it was reallydesperation and an unwillingness
to give up, if you will.
I was not prepared to say that,you know, okay, I'm unstable,
maybe I don't deserve my kids.
(23:12):
I never believed that.
I believe I had to do whatever Ihad to do to get them back.
So I met a lady named and sheasked me, you know, have you
ever considered this?
And I said you know, but umshe's like, I know you know
several girls.
I have a few different girlsthat worked for me, and I have a
clientele of different men, andyou know, I can take pictures of
(23:35):
you and send it out to some ofthese gentlemen and see what
they have to say.
So she took pictures of me andshe sent it out, and she started
setting up a screen.
I think the first one wasprobably the worst as far as
just feeling very low anddisgusting and degraded.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
Sarah's first experience wasn't empowering, it
wasn't glamorous, it wassurvival, and it was brutal.
She said the man that she metthat night was high, he was very
unpredictable, and he ignoredevery boundary that she tried to
set.
And this is part of the storythat rarely gets told when a
(24:17):
woman who was already strippedof her choices is forced to
trade what's left just to stayalive.
Zoro wasn't chasing pleasure orrebellion or even fast money.
She was chasing her kids.
The only thing that has everkept her moving forward.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
He was sweaty, he was stinky, he was disgusting,
it was it was just awful.
SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
Um most of the experiences that I had were
great, um to be honest.
So I during that time frame, Imean he was like doing
everything.
You know, um I know my replaydetector was broken a long time
ago, but at the time I thought,wow, he's great, he's a
(25:14):
character, he's so nice, he's sounderstanding, and we really
started behind and build aconnection and I got to a point
where I was like, if we're gonnabe serious, then I need to tell
you the truth about something.
And uh, and I told him I don'twant to be in this position, I
don't want to do this, I'm notproud of it, I'm not happy doing
(25:36):
it.
However, I've been starving,I've had nowhere to live, I have
you know, I've been begging forhelp.
I've I've I don't know what elseto do, but I have got to get
money for my lawyer and get mylife together so that I can get
back on my feet.
And he says, Well, you know, Iknow a few women who've used
(25:58):
this website.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
I've decided to not name the website mentioned here
to protect privacy and to avoidpromoting the platform itself.
What matters here isn't whereSarah ended up, it's why she
felt that she had no otherchoice.
And just a quick reminder thatas this episode releases,
(26:20):
Sarah's former abuser and ex isjust weeks away from being
released from prison.
He's already made publicstatements that he intends to
find her.
So if you want to help Sarahreach safety, you can donate
directly through her verifiedGoFundMe.
The link is in the show notesfor this episode.
(26:41):
And every share, every dollar,every act of support matters.
And next week, Sarah opens upabout what came next.
The relationship that followed.
A man for a moment who felt likesafety until the first time he
put hands on her.
She told me, I understand nowthat my red flag detector was
(27:06):
broken.
And in episode four, we'llunpack how trauma shapes the
kind of love that we accept andwhat it takes to finally start
recognizing danger for what itis.
All right, I'll talk to you nextweek and cue my outro.
I'm Elissa, and this isDismissed True Stories.
(27:30):
Season three continues nextweek.
But before you go, I have twoquick asks.
If this episode spoke to you,please share it with someone who
needs to hear Sarah's story.
Because you never know who mightfeel less alone because of it.
And I would love to hear fromyou too.
(27:52):
I've set up a voicemail whereyou can call and share your
opinions on this season.
Call 1-844-TELL-DTS.
Your voice may even be featuredin a future episode of Dismissed
True Stories.
That's 1-844-TELLL D T S.
(28:16):
Together, we're breaking thesilence.
One episode, one sentence, andone story at a time.
This episode contains discussions of domestic
violence, homelessness, sexualexploitation, and survival sex.
Listener discretion is stronglyadvised.
These stories shared in thisepisode are told from the
first-hand perspective of asurvivor.
Some details have been changedor omitted to protect the safety
and privacy of those involved.
(00:21):
This podcast does not condone orpromote illegal activity of any
kind.
Any mention of survival sex, sexwork, or criminalized behavior
is presented solely for thepurpose of understanding trauma,
systematic failure, and thecomplex realities survivors face
when navigating abuse andpoverty.
Our goal is to neversensationalize these
(00:42):
experiences, but to shed lighton the difficult choices people
are often forced to make whenevery system has failed them.
If you or someone you know isexperiencing abuse or
exploitation, you can call theNational Domestic Violence
Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE.
That's 7233.
Or text START to 8878.
(01:05):
You can also reach the NationalHuman Trafficking Hotline at
1-800-373-7888, or text HELP to233-733.
Both are free, confidential, andavailable 24-7.
Dismiss True Stories is anindependent documentary podcast
(01:25):
created to educate, empower, andadvocate for survivors of
domestic violence and coercivecontrol.
(01:54):
Thank you so much for comingback and continuing to support
Sarah and her fight for freedomand safety.
So, just to quick recap what youheard last week, we learned how
Sarah's world came crashing downwhen she discovered that the two
people that she thought shecould trust the most, that she
(02:16):
was closest to her husband andher mother, were having an
affair.
What began as a suspicion turnedinto a devastating truth when
she uncovered by accident theirlives and their deceit.
When Sarah confronted them, ofcourse, they denied it.
They gaslit her, they made herquestion her own sanity because
(02:37):
they can't continue what they'redoing if she's not confused
about it, right?
And the betrayal didn't just endher marriage, it fractured her
family and her sense of safetyall over again.
And this episode picks up in theaftermath of that discovery.
When Sarah is trying to rebuild,trying to stand on her own to
(02:57):
create a life outside of all thechaos that she thought she had
left behind.
But of course, she soon findsout that even when the
relationship ends, the abusedoesn't.
It just changes form.
And before we begin, just aquick note.
For safety reasons, some namesand identifying details in this
(03:20):
episode have been changed.
These are not legal names thatwe're using in this episode.
You'll also notice that parts ofthis interview, uh, it sounds a
little different.
So this was the very firstconversation that Sarah and I
recorded over the phone.
So there is some backgroundnoise and some feedback that I
couldn't completely remove.
(03:42):
Believe me, I tried my best.
Um I decided to keep it becausewhat Sarah shares in this
interview is powerful and deeplyimportant to understanding her
story.
So I ask for your patience onthe sound quality of this
episode and for your grace forthe weight of what we're about
to unpack here.
This episode includesdiscussions of domestic
(04:04):
violence, homelessness, andsexual exploitation.
Listener discretion is advised.
Again, I'm Elissa, and this isDismissed.
True stories.
The cost of survival.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Yeah, I thought that that was gonna be the answer to
my suffering.
I thought that I was gonna beable to take that money.
I did get my own place.
I paid a year worth of rent upfront.
I bought a vehicle for myself.
Um, it was paid off.
I stocked up my house withgroceries.
(05:15):
I paid my utilities in advance.
I did everything I could tobudget that money to set myself
up for success.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
Did you feel like life was, you said you f it felt
like freedom.
Did you feel like your life wasfinally turning a corner?
Like, yes, like I'm on the rightpath now.
SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, I had gotten a job as anassistant manager at a store in
the mall.
You know, I was just like, I'mgonna be able to figure this
out.
I can be independent, I can makeit work.
SPEAKER_03 (05:41):
And did anyone around you support this
newsstart, or were you buildingover completely from scratch?
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Completely from scratch.
I really didn't have anybody atthat time.
SPEAKER_03 (05:52):
And you mentioned trying to co-parent peacefully.
What were those first few monthslike before things just like
truly unraveled?
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
He was begging me to go to marriage counseling with
him.
He kept saying we can work itout, we can figure it out.
And I was like, you know, therethere's really no coming back
from you having an affair withmy mom for years and you know,
before, during, and after mysecond second pregnancy, it was
like, no, there's no recoveringfrom that.
(06:24):
It wasn't just some girl, itwasn't somebody that he knew
from his past.
Your mom.
It was my mom.
So there was really no gettingover that for me.
SPEAKER_03 (06:35):
When you ended things with him, did you also
end things with your mom?
SPEAKER_02 (06:39):
Yeah.
So initially I told her, like,you're dead to me, you're never
gonna see my kids again.
We are done here, there'snothing to discuss.
Um, I'm moving on and I don'twant you in my life at all.
And um, I thought I was gonna beable to figure everything out on
my own.
I purposely moved just 10minutes away from where Freddy
and I were living at the timebecause I thought the closer
(07:00):
that I was, that the easier itwould be to co-parent.
During the summer, we did finewith the co-parenting.
We were able to work things outwhen the school year started to
roll around.
That's when I said, you know, Ireally think the kids should go
to school from my addressbecause, you know, I have to
work full-time now to supportmyself.
You know, I'm trying to workmainly during school hours.
(07:21):
So mornings and evenings arereally gonna be the only time
that I'm gonna be available tospend with the kids because I
have to work.
And at the time he was gettingdisability, he got injured um in
the line of duty and he had tohave back surgery.
So he was staying at home fulltime and he was getting a
disability check every month.
You know, I was like, we candefinitely figure this out.
(07:42):
Like, even if you do want topick them up from school and
keep them overnight, I'm fine.
We can we can flip-flop back andforth, we can make it work.
You know, I'm not trying to keepyou from the kids.
I don't want to have anyarguments.
Like, we can be adults and wecan figure it out.
And he said, No, the kids needto go to school for my address.
And I'm like, Well, why?
You you're at home all day,every day.
(08:03):
Like, that's gonna make itincredibly difficult for me to
get any time with the kids.
So why don't you why don't youthink that they should go to
school for my address?
And he's like, Well, I just II'm just not gonna let that
happen.
It was one day that I wassupposed to go pick up the kids,
so I drove over to the duplexthat he was living in that we
were living in togetherpreviously, and I knocked on the
(08:25):
door and nobody answered.
And so I looked through thewindow and it was completely
empty.
And he just stopped answering myphone calls, wouldn't respond to
any of my text messages.
I had no idea where they were.
SPEAKER_03 (08:38):
Can you walk me through that day though, when
you're looking in the windowsand there's nothing there?
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
I mean, I'm just heartbroken, confused, scared, a
lot of things.
Angry, just very, very upset.
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
Were you were you like calling him on repeat?
Did you show up to his mom's?
I did file a report.
All of the things.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
Yeah, all of the things.
All the things.
SPEAKER_03 (09:09):
Um the police worked for that in the police
department.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
Yeah.
He definitely used that to hisadvantage, of course.
And you know, every time that Icalled the police on him, they
would say, Well, ma'am, it's acivil issue.
You're gonna have to take himback to court.
That was just a two-yearnightmare of back and forth,
back and forth, back and forthto court.
He was literally as difficult ashe could possibly be.
SPEAKER_03 (09:34):
When Sarah showed up to that duplex and found it
completely empty, it wasn't justthe silence that hit her.
It was a realization that herabuser had found a brand new way
to hurt her.
This is what is calledpost-separation abuse.
And it's what happens when anabuser can no longer control you
directly.
So they find new ways to do itthrough your children, your
(09:57):
finances, your reputation, oreven the legal system itself.
He had started telling everyonethat Sarah was a drug addict, a
lie that spread fast in a smalltown, especially when it came
from someone who worked insidethe police department.
Even his own mother believedhim.
And then he weaponized thesystem.
(10:18):
He used the courts as anotherform of abuse, filing a
protection order to keep Sarahaway from her own kids, dragging
her through hearings that shecould barely afford, knowing
each appearance would drain hera little more.
This kind of abuse doesn't stopwhen you leave, it just changes
form.
(10:39):
It puts on a badge, it hidesbehind paperwork.
It tells the world that it'sprotecting the children when
really it's protecting control.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
He told her that I was the one who left and I
abandoned the kids.
I left him with the kids becauseyou know, a financially stable
ex-wife with stable plans reallydidn't fit into his poor me
(11:14):
victim mentality.
Yes, absolutely.
So um, you know, he convincedeverybody that I was on drugs
and I ran off, I disappeared, Ididn't care about the kids, I
abandoned them completely.
His family believed it.
I still didn't know where helived or what was going on with
the kids.
(11:34):
The only thing that I knew to dowas to just constantly show up
at his mother's house and Iwould show up, I would bet knock
on the door, I would beg at thedoor, please let me know that
you know that my kids are okay.
Please let me know that they'resafe.
Please let me know that they arebeing taken care of.
I haven't seen them in days orweeks or months.
(11:56):
How you know, uh, each time Iarrived at the house, I knew she
was home and she would notanswer the door.
Or if she did answer the door,she would tell me to get off
drugs and get my life together.
I'm leaving clothes and shoesfor my kids, toys, books,
groceries, even.
I'm literally doing everything Ican to make sure that I'm still
(12:18):
supporting them in some sort ofway, even with no communication,
even with no way of knowing howthey were actually doing, where
they were staying, what theywere living through.
It was one of the hardest timesof my life.
SPEAKER_03 (12:32):
Did you have anyone, like friends, neighbors, or even
just like one police officer whowas willing to help you look for
your kids?
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
No.
It was just me.
SPEAKER_03 (12:41):
And what was keeping you going through like that time
that you weren't?
SPEAKER_02 (12:45):
My kids.
Just the fact that I wanted themback so bad and that I wasn't
sure how well they were beingtaken care of or what was going
on with with his wholesituation.
I just knew that he was abusive.
SPEAKER_03 (13:01):
He was abusive how?
Because I don't believe thatthat we've touched on that yet.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
Um, there was several times where, you know,
how kids like act out or have atemper tantrum or whatever, he
would try to spank him.
There was one time that he wasspanking him, and my son was
like, he wasn't gonna calm downand he wasn't gonna stop
throwing a fit because he wasn'tgetting his way.
Being beaten for it wasn'thelping the situation at all.
(13:29):
Like he still felt the same waythat he felt.
I'm not sure.
It's been so long.
I can't even remember what hewas upset about.
You know, Freddie just kepthitting him and kept hitting
him, and I'm like, you're justabusing him at this point
because doing anything, likeit's not working.
You're not disciplining him,you're just beating him.
I was worried about them a lot.
It turns out I had very goodreason to be worried.
(13:51):
Um, because found out later thatthey were abused a lot during
that time frame where I was notable to see them mentally,
emotionally, physically.
It was pretty bad.
It was pretty bad.
SPEAKER_03 (14:04):
My heart breaks for Sarah for a million different
reasons, but right here, it doesseem like she's doing everything
right.
She had finally caught in abreak, an inheritance from her
grandfather that she poured intoa brand new start, a brand new
life.
She paid her rent a year inadvance, she stocked her pantry,
she bought a car.
She was being responsible andhopeful even.
(14:28):
But sometimes for women leavingabuse, there always seems to be
those strings attached to goodfortune, you know, like
stability doesn't really stickwhen you're fighting an entire
system that is built todiscredit you.
Because while she was budgetingand rebuilding, her ex was
quietly draining her, using thecourts to bleed out every dollar
(14:50):
that she had left, using rumorsto make her look unfit, and
using their children as leverageto keep control.
And in the middle of all of it,Sarah was alone.
She was surrounded by people whohad already decided what kind of
woman she was, but not oneperson willing to ask if that
was true.
This pattern in Sarah's lifekept repeating.
(15:13):
Every time she reached forpeace, it slipped through her
fingers.
And this time, that fall wouldcost her everything that she'd
worked to rebuild.
SPEAKER_02 (15:26):
So when I had received that inheritance, like
I said, I paid a year worth ofrent up front, I purchased a
vehicle, I paid my bills up, Ihad gotten a new job.
I ended up getting fired from myjob at the mall because we had a
shoplifter in the store.
I didn't like follow them out ofthe store into the mall, but I
was standing outside of thestore doors because I was on the
(15:50):
phone with mall security and Iwas trying to give them a
description of what this personlooked like, what they were
wearing, et cetera, et cetera.
Just trying to do my job andmake sure that this person who
was stealing was caught.
Well, when my boss found outwhat happened, I was immediately
fired for leaving the thresholdof the store because I was the
only manager on duty, and thatwas against their policy.
(16:14):
So I lost my job.
I only had like a couple moremonths of rent that was paid in
advance.
And now I had no income.
I tried to find other employmentand I was really struggling.
So eventually the rent ran outand I became homeless.
I went and got a title loan onmy car, desperate for money.
(16:36):
Shortly after I got the titleloan, the transmission and the
vehicle went out and it wasstranded on the side of the
highway.
So uh the title loan companycalled me and they were like,
Hey, we noticed you were behindon your payments and just call
in to check in and see what'sgoing on.
And I explained, you know, Ilost my job and now the
(16:56):
transmission in the car wentout.
It's stuck on the side of thehighway.
I can't even afford to get ittowed.
I can't afford to fix it.
I can't afford to pay the titleloan.
I really don't know what youwant me to do at this point.
So they said, well, if yousurrender the vehicle, then
we'll just call it even.
So I surrendered the vehicle andI was homeless, living out of a
(17:18):
suitcase, taking publictransportation to get around
town.
SPEAKER_03 (17:23):
After losing your job, did you have anyone at all?
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
I was dating one guy, but he was not great for
me.
He wanted to drink and party alot and things like that.
And when I lost my job and Iwasn't seeing the kids anymore,
then I kind of fell intodrinking and doing drugs with
him and just wanting to escapethose hard feelings.
(17:48):
It's like having your heartripped out of your chest, being
expected to just keep moving andkeep going with no idea how to
navigate things.
SPEAKER_03 (17:57):
After that, that's what I was wondering.
Is is during this time after youlost your job, were you actively
looking for any other jobs?
I was.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
I was.
I'm a little too honest, Isuppose, you know, because
people would ask, Well, whatmade you leave your last job?
And it's like, Well, I got firedfor trying to do my job.
I didn't know what else to say,you know.
I I didn't have any good excusesfor why I would not be in that
position anymore.
So I was honest and then nobodywanted to hire me because of it.
SPEAKER_03 (18:29):
Okay, so what about that guy?
When you started to loseeverything, did he just
disappear?
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
No, he stayed.
Um things got really bad wherelike I didn't even have toilet
paper, I didn't have hot water,uh, we didn't have groceries,
things got bad.
We were going without food.
We were just really desperate.
We started stealing to survive.
We ended up getting arrestedtogether.
I called my mom and my aunt fromjail and you know, explained I
(18:59):
got arrested for stealingbecause I was hungry.
They said, Well, you made yourbed, so you have to lie in it.
That was incredibly hurtful forme because your mother made your
bed.
But that's what narcissists do.
They project all the blame ontoyou and gaslight you into
believing that it's your fault.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
She didn't even raise you, Sara Sarah.
She pushed you to the side andexpected you to figure out life
without anyone showing you theway.
And then she turns around andblames you for not knowing when
she never did her job as amother to prepare you for life
outside of her home.
SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
And still to this day, she refuses to accept any
kind of responsibility for anyof that, continues to gaslight
me into believing that she'sbeen nothing but supportive and
that she's always taking care ofme.
And it's taken a lot of years tolearn myself and understand what
(19:57):
I went through was abuse.
When you're raised in abuse, andwhen you're raised in a
situation where you'reconstantly being gaslit, you
don't really understand thatit's not normal because you've
never lived life before.
You don't realize that um thesethings are not healthy.
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Yeah.
Until you're an adult and yougo, oh wow, that was that was
really wrong.
So yeah, it's it's been a lot todeal with and a lot to process
for a really long time.
SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
By now, Sarah has done everything a person's
supposed to do to rebuild.
She's worked, she's budgeted,she's asked for help, and still
every door keeps slamming shut.
She's hungry, she's homeless,she's been arrested for stealing
food just to eat, just to fillher belly.
And when she called home fromjail, her mother told her, You
(20:52):
made your bed, now lie in it.
But Sarah didn't make her bed,it was built for her by the
people who were supposed toprotect her, by the systems that
had failed her, and by a motherwho taught her that love had
conditions.
So by the time she got out, shewasn't just broke, she was
broken.
And when someone finally offeredher what looked like a way out,
(21:16):
she took it.
Because when the world refusesto see your humanity, you start
doing whatever it takes tosurvive.
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
During my season of desperation and homelessness and
being arrested for stealing foodand things like that, all that
mattered to me was getting mykids back by any means
necessary.
And I struggled to findemployment.
I was struggling with hunger,lack of resources, lack of
(21:46):
support.
I'm tired of being hungry.
I'm tired of hurting.
I'm tired of not knowing wheremy kids are at, tired of not
knowing if they're okay.
I need income coming in becauseI had spent the last of my
inheritance on a lawyer already.
After I became homeless, he waslike, Well, we can't move
forward until you pay some moreof the retainer that you owe.
So everything was on hold withmy custody situation until I
(22:09):
could come up with the funds.
So I did what I had to do.
I ended up turning to sex workto support myself.
Initially, I had met a girl.
She had asked me if I would everconsider it.
And I was like, you know, atthis point, I might just do just
about anything.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
It's not though that definitely wasn't my dream job,
or uh something I thought, yeah,I can't wait to grow up and be a
prostitute.
Like it list.
Yeah.
Definitely was not the plan.
But again, being homeless,staying from place to place, not
being able to shower daily,having to sleep on the floor
pretty often, not having moneyfor feminine products, for
(22:51):
toiletries, and being hungry andgetting in put in jail for
stealing food to try to eat.
So, yeah, it was reallydesperation and an unwillingness
to give up, if you will.
I was not prepared to say that,you know, okay, I'm unstable,
maybe I don't deserve my kids.
(23:12):
I never believed that.
I believe I had to do whatever Ihad to do to get them back.
So I met a lady named and sheasked me, you know, have you
ever considered this?
And I said you know, but umshe's like, I know you know
several girls.
I have a few different girlsthat worked for me, and I have a
clientele of different men, andyou know, I can take pictures of
(23:35):
you and send it out to some ofthese gentlemen and see what
they have to say.
So she took pictures of me andshe sent it out, and she started
setting up a screen.
I think the first one wasprobably the worst as far as
just feeling very low anddisgusting and degraded.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
Sarah's first experience wasn't empowering, it
wasn't glamorous, it wassurvival, and it was brutal.
She said the man that she metthat night was high, he was very
unpredictable, and he ignoredevery boundary that she tried to
set.
And this is part of the storythat rarely gets told when a
(24:17):
woman who was already strippedof her choices is forced to
trade what's left just to stayalive.
Zoro wasn't chasing pleasure orrebellion or even fast money.
She was chasing her kids.
The only thing that has everkept her moving forward.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
He was sweaty, he was stinky, he was disgusting,
it was it was just awful.
SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
Um most of the experiences that I had were
great, um to be honest.
So I during that time frame, Imean he was like doing
everything.
You know, um I know my replaydetector was broken a long time
ago, but at the time I thought,wow, he's great, he's a
(25:14):
character, he's so nice, he's sounderstanding, and we really
started behind and build aconnection and I got to a point
where I was like, if we're gonnabe serious, then I need to tell
you the truth about something.
And uh, and I told him I don'twant to be in this position, I
don't want to do this, I'm notproud of it, I'm not happy doing
(25:36):
it.
However, I've been starving,I've had nowhere to live, I have
you know, I've been begging forhelp.
I've I've I don't know what elseto do, but I have got to get
money for my lawyer and get mylife together so that I can get
back on my feet.
And he says, Well, you know, Iknow a few women who've used
(25:58):
this website.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
I've decided to not name the website mentioned here
to protect privacy and to avoidpromoting the platform itself.
What matters here isn't whereSarah ended up, it's why she
felt that she had no otherchoice.
And just a quick reminder thatas this episode releases,
(26:20):
Sarah's former abuser and ex isjust weeks away from being
released from prison.
He's already made publicstatements that he intends to
find her.
So if you want to help Sarahreach safety, you can donate
directly through her verifiedGoFundMe.
The link is in the show notesfor this episode.
(26:41):
And every share, every dollar,every act of support matters.
And next week, Sarah opens upabout what came next.
The relationship that followed.
A man for a moment who felt likesafety until the first time he
put hands on her.
She told me, I understand nowthat my red flag detector was
(27:06):
broken.
And in episode four, we'llunpack how trauma shapes the
kind of love that we accept andwhat it takes to finally start
recognizing danger for what itis.
All right, I'll talk to you nextweek and cue my outro.
I'm Elissa, and this isDismissed True Stories.
(27:30):
Season three continues nextweek.
But before you go, I have twoquick asks.
If this episode spoke to you,please share it with someone who
needs to hear Sarah's story.
Because you never know who mightfeel less alone because of it.
And I would love to hear fromyou too.
(27:52):
I've set up a voicemail whereyou can call and share your
opinions on this season.
Call 1-844-TELL-DTS.
Your voice may even be featuredin a future episode of Dismissed
True Stories.
That's 1-844-TELLL D T S.
(28:16):
Together, we're breaking thesilence.
One episode, one sentence, andone story at a time.
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