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June 13, 2025 61 mins

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What happens when you finally break free from abuse but find yourself standing on unfamiliar ground? For Stephanie, a mother of two neurodivergent children and a survivor of narcissistic abuse, that first year became both a battleground and a sacred space of rediscovery.

"Nature loves courage," Stephanie reminds us. "When you open up to the world, it opens itself beyond what you can conceive." After enduring abuse from both her narcissistic mother and ex-partner, she found herself documenting every moment, writing furiously after putting her children to bed, turning her pain into words that would eventually become her pathway back to herself. This episode explores how gaslighting creates a desperate need to record reality when your perception has been systematically undermined for years.

The conversation delves into fascinating psychological patterns – how children of narcissists either become empaths constantly scanning for danger or develop narcissistic tendencies themselves. For empaths like Stephanie, this wiring created vulnerability to relationships where her contributions as a mother to two children with autism were constantly minimized, where her joy was mocked, and where her financial independence was undermined. When her ex laughed in her face about her creative ambitions, she made a powerful decision: "I'm going to prove this motherfucker wrong."

Whether you're freshly out of abuse or years into healing, this episode offers profound insights into reclaiming your voice, finding community, and daring to believe that joy isn't just possible, it's your birthright. Sharing stories becomes an exercise in "unlearning shame," turning personal pain into connection and validation that reminds every survivor they're not alone. Subscribe now to join a growing community where healing happens together, and discover why the world truly is a better place because you're in it.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello and welcome back to Dismissed True Stories.
Still haven't figured out anintro for these things, but I
think that's my intro.
Welcome back to DTS.
Thank you so much for listening.
Remember how last week I toldyou about the fact that we're
like 300 downloads away from1,000 monthly.
I cannot wrap my brain aroundthat one.
I entered my stats into chatand I was like can you please

(00:37):
break this down for me?
And then I kept asking like,are you sure?
Are you sure?
Are you sure?
Because it just doesn't seemreal.
Thank you so much for being asupporter, for being a listener.
You have no idea how much justconfidence in myself that you're
giving back.
I know that's kind of maybethat's self-centered to say.

(00:59):
I don't really know.
All I know is that, like sinceexperiencing abuse,
communicating has been one of mybiggest insecurities.
And getting back behind the micagain, like I just texted my
friend Alex the other day and Iwas like holy cow, girl, like I
feel the most me that I havefelt in a long time.
Being back behind the mic again.

(01:20):
It feels like home.
This is something that justruns in my blood.
I love it so much.
I feel like I get in a flowstate back here in my little
studio.
If you haven't seen me onsocial media, my studio is
literally a closet in mybasement that I revamped.
I put three-inch memory foammattress stoppers on the walls

(01:45):
and hung up extra curtains andput in extra carpets just to
pick up the sound, so it's notbouncing all over the place.
And this is my studio.
And maybe one day we'll be in areally cool studio somewhere, I
don't know.
But here's to humble beginnings, but I'm just really freaking

(02:07):
glad you're here.
So this week on Dismissed TrueStories we are talking to a
survivor named Stephanie andit's interesting to me that
sometimes I will go into aninterview having somebody
reading somebody's story alreadyand having some sort of idea of

(02:28):
what they're going through.
But then it ends up beingsomething else entirely.
And this is one of thoseepisodes and we talk about how
there's something that is sosacred about that first year
after leaving abuse.
You know it's chaotic, it's atender time, it's terrifying,

(02:48):
but also it's strangely so fullof possibility.
You can find yourself sobbingon the couch at midnight with a
pen in hand writing downfeelings you didn't know you had
the words for that was me, infull transparency.
But somehow that ink becomes alifeline, and that's how it was

(03:11):
for Stephanie.
In today's episode of DismissedTrue Stories.
I'm sitting down with Stephanie, a survivor, a mother, a truth
teller, an author and a writerwith a voice that cuts through
shame with sunlight.
Together we talk about what itmeans to grow up with a
narcissistic parent, to grievewhile raising children, to be

(03:33):
silenced, gaslit, threatened andto still rise anyway.
Also, if you hear a bunch oflike thumping in the background,
I'm so sorry.
It's summer break, so my sonand his elephant feet are
stomping around up above me.
This episode is about reclaimingjoy and finding community.

(03:55):
Ah, I love that and daring tobelieve that you are allowed to
live fully and loudly.
So if you're like me, if you'relike Steph and you've ever felt
unseen, unheard or unsure ofyour strength, this one is for
you.
No, I was going to tell yousomething.

(04:33):
I think what I was going to sayis in my first year after
leaving abuse, one of the thingsthat I always felt like I had
to do one was right, justbecause I felt like everything
that I was experiencing therewas so much there, and so a lot
of the time I would put my sonto bed and then I would go out
into the living room and sit onthe couch and like sob and then
write everything that I wasfeeling, because I would have to

(04:54):
.
I'm the kind of person thatlike I have to get it out and
then go back and read it toreally understand everything
that I was feeling.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, that's like a symptom of gaslighting for me
personally and that's how it wasinterpreted In therapy I did.
I did some EMDR at the end oflast year and now I'm doing a
bit of brain swatting in thelast two months.
But those therapies have taughtme that gaslighting as as like

(05:25):
an experience and, and over aprolonged period of time and
coming from the people who youtrust most.
My abuse stemmed from myrelationship with my ex-husband,
but it also came from my mother, so it's sort of been like a
lifelong experience for me tohave my reality brought into
question and my experience iskind of um, just diminished.

(05:48):
And and at one point I wastelling my therapist I was like
you know, I'm no expert on this,but like I've done, you know so
and so therapy.
And she was like, well, youknow, steph, you're, you're the
expert of your own experience,like you are, and you need to
start like taking ownership overthat.
And I think the best way for meto do it I've.
I'm like I have a degree inliterature.

(06:11):
I have always been told that Ihave like this gift for writing
and and I feel it like I feel it, but I never really tapped into
it until until I came out ofabuse and that became like my
saving grace was like writingdown what happened to me and
like letting it consume the pagerather than like my soul,
because it became too much andit's just been such a healing

(06:36):
experience.
So I hear you, it's, it'swriting is one of the best tools
when, when, when we come out ofabuse, to understand sort of
what happened to us.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I know that my journal from the time.
So I didn't start writing untilI was maybe a couple months
before I left, and then I hadthe same journal the year after
I left.
Abuse when I say that thatpiece is like an artifact of my

(07:09):
history.
That is my baby.
That journal is like somethingthat I'm going to keep in a
locked box in my closet forprobably the rest of my life,
Because that was the mostterrifying and liberating
experience of my life.
Yeah, that first year, I feelfor you and I feel like I see it

(07:34):
a little bit in you, Just thatfeeling of being in that first
year and having, when I firstmet my now boyfriend, the first
date that we went on, he said tome, he said I don't know what
it is about you, but I feel likeI can feel how strong you are

(07:55):
and I feel like when I look atyou, I can see it.
It's just like I don't know,have you ever heard that
survivors of trauma like wespeak a different language.
It's almost like a superpowerthat we understand.
Once you've been throughsomething, you see it in
somebody else.
And I that's what I feel likelike you just like have this
aura like strength andconfidence about you, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
That means a lot.
Actually, I don't feel like avery confident person.
I mean, I'm stepping into itmore and more and I think, like
learning to be on my own andlike embracing solitude was such
a tool for me to like get to myabusers were preventing me from
stepping into.
I feel like you heal, youbecome like.
You have this ability now toheal others, and that's why I

(09:08):
think the work that you do bylike showcasing and and hearing
other people's stories is so, sofucking important, because we
don't really understand it once,once we come out of it, until
we've heard other people'saccounts of things that they
have been through that aresimilar to ours, and it takes so

(09:28):
much courage and so muchstrength to come out and speak.
I know personally, I was buriedunder a mountain of threats
after I posted my first video,the one that I shared with you,
the one that I shared with you,I think, within the first hour
of it being posted, he sent me adefamation letter by email and

(09:50):
the letter ended with likeplease govern yourself
accordingly, and I was like youknow that I shall.
Like I shall.
It's your story to tell.
Yeah, I have every right totell my story.
I never even like named him.
I mean, people who know us fromour community know who I'm
talking about.

(10:10):
But you know you and othershave no idea.
So I'm not doing anythingillegal.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
I'm not stepping out of line by any means, and we
don't care to know him.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, exactly Like everything I'm sharing is the
truth.
It's quite an empoweringfeeling when you come from like
an environment of lies andmanipulation and there's still
some of that going on, but my,like my truth outshines his lies

(10:44):
by you know, a record amount,whereas before, when I was
silenced, there's this thingwhen you come out of
narcissistic abuse or come outof a narcissistic relationship
in general, it's it's anarcissistic smear campaign and
I was a victim of that andlearning of that after I shared

(11:05):
my story was a very traumatizingexperience in itself, because I
used to care so deeply whateveryone thought of me and he
knew that.
He knew that too well and heused it to his advantage and, um
, yeah, it just it.

(11:26):
It outshines all of thedarkness, is the light that I'm
putting out, and sometimes it'ssometimes it's dark and
sometimes it's heavy, but mostof the time I'm really happy and
like I live a very fulfilledlife for for the first time ever
.
And yeah, I think it would takeaway from the authenticity if I

(11:46):
was to like keep, keep thedarkness to myself yeah um,
rather than when you, when youstart to actually feel your
emotions rather than avoid them,they do this silly thing where
they just go away.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
The only way through it is through it, isn't that
crazy.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I know.
So yeah, I stopped avoiding andI just faced everything head on
, and now nothing really scaresme anymore.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
I love that for you.
I think that I'm still at apoint where I'm trying to work
through all of that.
It's been five years for me,but I think for a very long
amount of time of that I didn'twant to feel the things.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, and you share a child, right?
Yeah, am I?
Yeah, how?

Speaker 1 (12:37):
is that Interesting.
However, he has a new partnerand so I mainly co-parent with
her, which isn't too bad, so,yeah, well, this one is so
interesting to me because shesaid that when you've lived
through long-term gaslightingfrom a parent or a partner or

(13:00):
both, your reality stops feelingreliable.
And what do we do when we haveto survive?
That?
We document, we write, werecord voice notes.
I started video journaling.
We journal, like our livesdepend on it, because in a lot
of ways, they absolutely do.
That's how we say this happened.

(13:22):
I felt this, I was here and itwon't be erased.
I want to talk about.
I guess the biggest part ofyour story would be you growing
up with a mother and that kindof planting or forming your

(13:46):
perception of yourself.
You said you had a difficultchildhood.
You dealt with a narcissisticparent and you had one person in
your life who was a healthyrole model for you, which was
your grandfather, and you endedup losing him when you were 19.
Who was a healthy role model foryou?

(14:07):
Which was your grandfather?
And you ended up losing himwhen you were 19.
I felt for you there.
Was it 19?
Correct, yeah, I felt for youthere because I went through the
same exact thing, but it was mygrandmother and I think, and
understanding why we walk intothese relationships and deal

(14:30):
with these relationships for solong.
I think it's really importantto understand that it's so
layered because we already havea perception of ourself and then
we're usually love bombed andkind of like sold this dream and
they do a lot of future fakingwith you.
But to understand your story, Ithought that it was really

(14:55):
interesting that you hadrecently lost someone and you
had also dealt with anarcissistic parent that warped
your sense of self and so youwere feeling lost and confused
and all these emotions, and letalone being 19.
Like, I know that we'reconsidered adult, but I was not

(15:19):
adulting at 19.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
No, we're extremely vulnerable and volatile too.
Like I would not want to goback to those days.
Like I would not want to goback to those days.

(15:46):
I probably wouldn't do it anydifferent if I had to go back.
To be completely honest, like Ilearned so much.
I just think I don't see my expartner as this, like malicious
love bomber from the get go whowas, like you know, out to get
me, and like we were very muchwounded in similar ways.
That's something I touched on inmy writing is that we both grew
up with narcissistic mothersand our moms had a similar path

(16:10):
in the mistakes that they madein our childhoods.
So we bonded over that quiteand like, quite instantaneously,
yeah, and we sort of like drewout this map of okay, we're
gonna have children of our ownsomeday and we're going to do
things the opposite of what wewere raised in, and that sort of

(16:32):
became like the guiding path toto how the relationship evolved
so quickly.
We became parents.
He was 21 and I was 23 like wewere babies.
We were four years or threeyears, three and a half years, I
think, into the relationshipwhen I got pregnant and you know

(16:54):
, as my story unfolds, pregnancybecomes quite a large trigger.
I am a proud mother, but I'malso, like, extremely fertile.
I get pregnant like incrediblyeasily, and it's been a
challenge for me to navigatethat with someone who you know,

(17:19):
has since wanted to harm me inso many ways and has has
successfully done so in the lastyear and and having to do with
with my fertility and andwhatnot.
So, um, yeah, I thinknarcissism is, is is, um, and

(17:41):
this is like the empath in me.
I think when you grow up with anarcissistic parents, you have
like one of two outcomes.
You either become an empath,where, like, your ability to
feel other people's emotions isvery heightened and that becomes
like your mechanism forsurvival right, that's how you
manage to get your needs met orfeel safe is by like sensing
when someone else is, is, youknow feeling whatever range of

(18:05):
emotions there is um.
Or there's the other outcome,which is to become a narcissist
yourself, and usually that comesfrom like inflation and you
know being told by yournarcissistic parent that you're
a walking representation ofevery good thing they've ever
done on this earth and you justsort of become a replica of them

(18:27):
.
But it's, it's built in shame.
There's a a, there's a deepsense of shame that comes comes
with that.
I was made to feel ashamed ofmyself, whereas he was made to
feel ashamed of others.
So it became this like push andpull of of um.

(18:48):
Well, we know the gaslightingtechniques of like always
bringing up past mistakes.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
I wanted to stop right here because I think it is
so interesting what she saidabout growing up with a
narcissistic parent, how it doessomething to your wiring.
You can either become theperson who needs to control how
you've seen people be controlledor the person who constantly
scans for danger just to survive.

(19:15):
If you're listening to thispodcast, you more than likely
fall on the scanning for dangerside.
That's why you'll often hearthat kids of narcissists can
either become narcissiststhemselves or empaths and I had
to research this after she saidit, because I was like I wonder
if this is just a quote, becauseI've heard this before but I've

(19:35):
never actually done theresearch.
But research from the Journalof Personality Disorders
actually backs this.
Studies show that kids ofnarcissistic parents often
develop either narcissistictendencies mirroring what the
parent did to gain the parent'sapproval, or hyper-empathy as a

(19:56):
survival response to theunpredictability and the
emotional neglect.
Empaths like Steph, like me,like you we grow up attuned to
other people's moods, otherpeople's comforts, and that
makes us prime targets forabusers.
I don't know.

(20:17):
We must be a lighthouse with abeacon on our freaking forehead,
because if you've ever wonderedwhy you stayed or why you
tolerated the intolerable, andmaybe you're relating to
Stephanie's story right now.
It's not because you're weak.
It's because you're wired toprioritize peace, and doing
whatever you can to bring peaceto a situation is how you cope,

(20:40):
is how you manage, even if it'sat your own expense.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Never making it about themselves, not taking
accountability, all of thosethings.
So the dynamic between him andI was very much like the
foundation was already set.
We were sort of we were builtto fail.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
But I think, like when you met, you said that he
was 18 and you were 20.
Yeah, you were both young andyou trauma bonded, as you said,
um, from the very beginning, um,and it seemed like sorry, it
seemed like you know you bothwanted the same things, um, but

(21:28):
maybe in being built to failwith the sort of foundation that
you all had laid, romanticabusive relationships do come
from two very different people.
Like there is the one empathwho is like okay, hand me your
burdens, they are my blessingand I will try to help you and

(22:12):
fix you and work things through.
And then there's just that,that other person that takes
advantage of that person andthey become like a vampire and
just and just suck the life outof you.
Um, I want to talk about, um,your first pregnancy, because
you said that you were aboutlike three, three and a half
years into your relationship.

(22:34):
What did your relationship looklike at the time?
Did you experience other thanthe trauma bonding?
Did you experience, like, anytype of abuse before you got
pregnant?
Because statistics say, like,after you get pregnant, abuse
usually will escalate.

(22:55):
Can?
you kind of like walk me throughwhat your relationship looked
like.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
So there was betrayal very early on in the
relationship, like within thefirst year of us dating.
He had cheated on me multipletimes.
An ex-girlfriend of his hadreached out to me on my birthday
to let me know that he wassending her some inappropriate
messages and she wasn't engaging.
But she wanted to let me know.
And as soon as I confronted him, he gaslit me shreds, which was

(23:22):
so indicative of what my futurewould look like down the line.
But at the time I fullybelieved him.
I was like, oh, she's, you know, she's manipulating me.
This is like he would never dosuch a thing.
It's my birthday.
I was in the shower while he waslike sending apparently sending

(23:44):
these photos Like happybirthday.
Yeah, exactly, this couldn'thave happened.
But I believed him.
And then, two years later, wewere living together, um, and,
and we sort of brought thatinstance back into the
discussion and he admitted to methat what she was saying was

(24:06):
the truth.
So I I flipped out, I was readyto leave the relationship and
when I called my mom to you know, gain, gain, sympathy or
comfort she basically told melike you guys are living
together now, like you shouldstick this out.
Yeah, he's a good guy Like justyou know it happened a long

(24:29):
time ago.
He's not like that anymore.
Just forget it and move on.
So you know, my mom and my exhave a lot in common.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
I was just sitting here thinking like is that
something that she would do?
Is would she just forget it andmove on?

Speaker 2 (24:49):
I mean, I'm not too sure she cheated on my dad and
and that's sort of how therelationship erupted between
them.
But um, and it was.
You know it was a precarioussituation and yeah, so that
became a thing.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Hold the phone.
I have to pause right here.
Stephanie had called her mom,hoping for comfort, hoping for
clarity after discoveringbetrayal, and instead she got a
message that so many of us haveheard in different ways.
When in a toxic and abusiverelationship, just move on, or

(25:32):
it happened a long time ago.
Here's the thing Her mom wasn'tjust ignoring the pain.
This is what got under my skinso much.
She was reenacting a script,because when Stephanie shared
that her mom had an affair,something that obviously causes
chaos in their family and theircommunity but instead of

(25:52):
accountability, it was sweptunder the rug.
So what do you think you dowhen you're the one that caused
all the chaos, all the rupture?
You teach your family how tosurvive your shame.
You model denial.
You normalize betrayal.
Model denial.
You normalize betrayal.
You raise your children in ahome where truth is inconvenient

(26:12):
and silence is accepted.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
We did university like a couple months prior, and
he was still in school and thenI got pregnant, sort of by
happenstance, and then a weeklater I had a miscarriage and
that devastated us.
And I think that thedevastation was what was the
indicator for us that we didwant to start a family.
So we kind of just impulsivelydecided like as soon as I don't

(26:40):
even think I had a periodbetween my miscarriage and when
I got pregnant with Thomas, likewe just instantly started
trying and I got pregnant rightaway just instantly started
trying and I got pregnant rightaway.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
So um you said that, you said that um you guys
grieved very differently.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah.
So he, I went back to work likea week after my miscarriage and
I was working over an hour awayfrom our place of residence and
I was like falling asleep atthe wheel and it was just
getting like very dangerous forme to go to work.
So my doctor put me on medicalleave and I ended up getting

(27:22):
super, super depressed where,like I couldn't get out of bed
for a couple months, and I wasearly on in pregnancy with this
new child and I was early on inpregnancy with this new child
and I was having a really hardtime bonding with with the
pregnancy because I felt veryguilty, for I felt like I was
replacing the baby that I hadlost.
And he, on the other hand, washe wanted to pursue like a stand

(27:47):
up comedy career.
So he was out at bars prettymuch every night, like with
friends doing stand up comedyand improv and things like that.
So we just had this likefracture in the relationship
where I was I felt veryneglected.
I was I felt very neglected andI think that was like those

(28:13):
were the first signs of abusefor me were like was like the
emotional neglect and that wasvery much a replica of what I
had experienced with my momgrowing up when, when I had
gotten pregnant the first, thefirst time, the one that I
miscarried we told my mom rightaway and she reacted very, very
poorly.
Um, she basically said like youguys are ruining your life and

(28:38):
blah, blah, blah.
It put me in like a severedistress and I've I've sort of
attributed that experience to mymiscarriage for a while,
because I was so like angry anddistraught from her reaction and
how selfish it was and I didn'ttalk to my mom until I was like

(28:59):
six months pregnant with Thomas, like we didn't have any sort
of interaction.
And that's just how she is.
Like I haven't spoken to my mom, not not a word.
Since everything went down withmy ex, like last fall Did she
approve of?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
you like, finally walking away from him for good.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Not really.
No, I don't ever really getapproval from my mom, like I
stopped seeking it to be, quitehonest, understandable, I think,
yeah, I'm pretty much like sofar removed from this
relationship at this point andI've I've expanded so much since
, since I've sort of called itquits with my mom, that I've

(29:40):
realized that there's no,there's no, really there's no
point in me going back to that.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
How was she when you uh had your miscarriage?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
um, like in the fall your first one.
The first one she, she knewabout it but she never reached
out.
She knew I was like upset withher for the way that she reacted
.
So she just she, can't takeaccountability.
She's like a textbooknarcissist in that sense.
It's sort of crazy to me how itfeels like they're literally
all reading from the exact sametextbook.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
They're all the same, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, they're all the same.
But again, it's this defensemechanism that they develop in
childhood and it comes fromshame.
My mom is deeply, deeply,deeply ashamed of herself.
She always and well, she alwayssaid that like she wished that

(30:32):
I was a boy, which was hurtful,but beyond that, she was very
like.
She would always hold itagainst me that I was blonde and
blue eyed.
Because she was.
She had brown hair and browneyes and she was like oh, like
you're so like privileged forbeing as beautiful as you are,

(30:52):
and like you'll have life easyand this and that, but like it
never came with with any sort ofapproval from her.
It always came down to like mylooks were the extent of what I
had to offer to this world andit was something that I had over
her.
It was like my ex and my momhave so much in common, but he
always hated her.
He always hated her.

(31:13):
He always said like she'sjealous of you.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
In short form, this made me question why don't
narcissists get along,especially when they're
basically reading from the sametextbook?
The answer in a one wordcompetition.
Narcissists need to dominatethe emotional environment.
They feed off of control,admiration and power.

(31:39):
So when another narcissistenters the picture, someone who
also demands the spotlight, whorefuses accountability, who also
manipulates, it's like lookingin a freaking mirror and instead
of bonding, they're going tohit heads.
They're going to battle becausethere's only room for one in

(32:02):
that emotional ecosystem, if youwill, because your pain becomes
their stage and only one ofthem gets to be the lead star.
I think that's interesting andheartbreaking for me to hear
that you were experiencing abusenot only from a romantic

(32:26):
partner, but also from yourmother.
At the same time, I couldn'timagine how alone and isolated
you felt, especially whilegrieving something like a
miscarriage.
Because full transparency.
I've had one too, and I'veexperienced also that the way
that I chose to grieve wascompletely different from my

(32:48):
partner, and I couldn't imaginenot, I did not have support from
him, but I did have supportfrom other people and I'm I'm so
sorry.
I could not imagine that, butor I understand why you chose to
cut her off.
You said that a month after theloss, after your first

(33:14):
miscarriage, you became pregnant.
We touched on that and youended up having your first son
at the end of July of 2019.
Yeah, and then you guys becamecommon law.
Yeah, kind of as soon as youbecame parents.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yes, pretty much actually right before Thomas was
born, and that was you know.
We had been living together forover a year at that point, so
we were already I live in Canada, so by any legal means we were
already considered common law.
But I had a tumultuousrelationship with my dad growing
up.
My dad is now he's passed on,but he also had borderline

(33:57):
personality disorder.
There's no shadow of a doubt inmy mind.
His mother was a narcissist andhe chose a familiar hell over
an unfamiliar heaven.
And that was my mom.
And so I ended up with anarcissistic mother and a father
who is absent and volatile andaggressive and just overall like

(34:21):
unpleasant.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
So just a very quick break to explain what common law
is for those listening outsideof Canada or even unfamiliar
with the term, Common law is alegal recognition of a
relationship.
It's kind of like a marriage,but without the paperwork.
So in Canada, once you've livedtogether for 12 consecutive

(34:44):
months, the law considers youcommon law partners.
This means for things likefinances, property rights and
even parental responsibilities,for things like finances,
property rights and evenparental responsibilities, that
can start to fall under similarlegal frameworks as a married
couple, even if there are novows, no rings exchanged.
So when Stephanie says theybecame common law just before

(35:08):
their son was born, it meansthat they were officially
recognized as sort of a unit,with all the emotional and legal
weight that that carries.
And, as you'll hear, that legalbond added a whole nother layer
to an already complexrelationship.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
I have been wanting to get rid of my dad's name
forever.
My dad's name was Stefan, myname is Stephanie, so my name
was literally one letter offfrom his and that sort of you
know.
It grinded my gears a lot.
So, right before we had Thomas,I decided that I wanted to just
get it over with, sign thepapers and be able to take his

(35:49):
name legally.
So I did, and, and now both mychildren have all of the same
last names on on their birthcertificate.
But, um, you know, I've beenasked this quite a few times on
why I keep the name.
Um, even after, aftereverything that's happened, and

(36:09):
I don't intend on keeping itforever.
Like I, I'm in love again and Ithink like there is a path
forward for me and things willevolve eventually, but for the
time being, it's my children'sname and I've said it in one of
my pieces of writing.
Like I will single handedlyrestore honor to their name.

(36:32):
That's something that I'm verykeen on.
So for the time being, my nameremains what it is.
But yeah, we'll see.
That's all it really came downto was the name change.
So that was the decision.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
And kind of like running from what your dad meant
in your mind and what he stoodfor.
Yeah, so after you had um, youhad Thomas, um.
You got pregnant with yoursecond son pretty close to um

(37:10):
after after you had your firstum, and then you write that both
of your sons ended up diagnosedwith autism and that diagnosis
was something that was verydifficult for both you and um,
your partner Um, and in thistimeframe and your relationship,

(37:32):
you had both turned tosubstances to cope.
What did that look like for theboth of you?
What did that look like foryour family?

Speaker 2 (37:43):
It was very difficult .
They were both well.
They were born 12 months and 12days apart, so already that was
like an enormous challenge.
So already that was like anenormous challenge.

(38:09):
And then, within I think fiveto six months of my second son
being born, my first son wasflagged by our family doctor for
autism spectrum disorder andyou know it's such a shock.
I remember so vividly feelinglike it was like a hammer to the
head and I just like I feltlike a concussion and I just
couldn't get over it.
So I started smoking weed.

(38:29):
I was like heavily into thatand that was was my escape.
That was like my way of gettingaway from from the you know
hour-long tantrums or you knowthe stims and every, every
indicator that was like blaringright at us that my kids had
special needs and that thiswould be like a lifelong
challenge for us.
Um, which I will say likethey've overcome with flying

(38:55):
colors.
They're now like I wouldconsider them to be, like the
stereotypical autistic kids thatare like excessively smart and
very, very sociable and likevery lovable.
They're like they're exceedingwith flying colors.
But that there's a reason forthat.
That's because we we were sokeen on on um early intervention

(39:16):
for them, but that the brunt ofthat fell on me 100% and it
affected my career.
Um, I had given my job literallyto my ex-husband when we were
together and I got pregnant withmy second son.
So I was working for a localschool board and for my mat

(39:38):
leave they had asked you knowwho should cover it?
And I had said to them that myhusband at the time was
available, so he covered my matleave.
And then when I got pregnantagain, it sort of just made
sense for me to hand over mypermanent position so that he
could keep the pay and thebenefits and all that.
What was your position?

(40:02):
It was it's first French school.
Specifically, I'm Frenchspeaking.
So it's essentially like astudent life counselor would be
the direct translation, but youbasically put on workshops with
them.
So it's essentially like astudent life counselor would be
the direct translation, but youbasically put on workshops with
them.
You take care of everything inthe school that's

(40:22):
extracurricular, everything thathas to do with outside of the
classroom.
So you know, for Christmas, forHalloween, for special events,
you're the, you're the leadperson for that, and it was a
very interesting and fulfillingtime in my life and I wish I
could have done it for longer,but I gave all of it up so that
he could have it and then I wasworking from home full-time with

(40:47):
both kids at home.
It was during COVID, so he washome as well.
His substance abuse was verymuch not limited to alcohol like
he would smoke weed with mehere and there, but alcohol
became very prevalent for himand he has like a history of

(41:07):
substance abuse in his family.
It's something that's like beena trigger for him and and I
remember when him and I firstmet, he would always tell me
like I would never drink if Iwas upset.
Like if I'm upset, that's likenumber one reason for me not to
drink.
And it became the oppositewhere we were now stuck at home

(41:28):
all four of us all the time.
Our kids were both non-verbal,um, they were never aggressive,
but they were like hurtingthemselves.
They were having like very longtantrums that were difficult to
manage and it got to a pointwhere like it was 9 30 in the
morning and he would pop open abeer and then keep drinking

(41:48):
throughout the day.
And I think the breaking pointfor me was was on my son
Thomas's birthday one year.
He like couldn't get out of bedbecause he was so hungover and
he's a pretty like lanky guy,like he's pretty skinny, so you
know it doesn't take much forhim to get very much obliterated

(42:10):
and his, his system has a hardtime recovering.
So his hangovers were prettysignificant and that became like
a big source of tension for us.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I want to name something that might not be
obvious to you unless you'velived it Grief.
Grief, especially unprocessedgrief, can become a gateway to
abuse.
When Stephanie talked aboutlosing her first baby and then
getting pregnant again whilestill grieving, and then

(42:44):
parenting two toddlers withcomplex needs during a pandemic,
that's easy to understand howraw and heavy of a chapter in
life that was and how easy itmight have been to reach for
something, anything to numb thepain.
That's what weed was for herand that's what alcohol became

(43:04):
for him.
But here's the thing there's adifference between someone
coping and someone completelychecking out, and there's a
difference between mutualstruggle and then using the pain
as permission to slip and tostop showing up or, worse, to
start tearing someone else down.

(43:25):
According to the NationalDomestic Violence Hotline,
substance use doesn't causeabuse.
I mean, I guess that opens up awhole argument between
correlation and causation, butit often coexists with it,
because the deeper truth is thatsubstance can lower inhibitions
and escalate behavior, but itdoesn't plant the seed.

(43:49):
The seed is always about powerand control.
So for victims like Stephanie,who are already carrying the
weight of motherhood, emotionalneglect and a partner spiraling
out of reach.
These quote-unquote copinghabits become another form of
abandonment and eventuallyanother form of harm.

(44:12):
That's the pattern Unprocessedgrief leads to unchecked
behavior, and unchecked behaviorbecomes normalized.
And before you know it, theabuse isn't just emotional or
verbal anymore.
It's structural.
It's your career, it's yourstability, it's your joy being
handed over or chipped away orjust outright stolen and just

(44:38):
like that you're surviving awhole new kind of storm.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Because he was drinking a lot, so he was
hungover often, yeah, and whenhe was hungover he was so
unpleasant and even when he wasdrunk he was unpleasant.
So smoking when he was drunk hewas unpleasant.
So like smoking weed for mereally did like become this like
full-on escape because I couldgo to the garage and have like
some alone time.
Um, but in other areas of mylife I was shouldering quite a

(45:10):
lot and I was being told that Iwas not contributing enough and
that was mainly pertaining tolike finances and like work,
because I didn't have like thisnine to five job like he did,
which was, you know, I will sayagain, it was my job before it
was ever his.
I was considered to beinadequate in that sense and

(45:35):
that's something that's like.
That's a big trigger for mestill to this day is the
employment.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Same.
They really do all read fromthe same textbook.
Because my situation was heused to say he had a nine to
five and he used to say, well,if I'm going to go and put in
eight hours and you're going tobe at home, then you have to put
in the same eight hours that Ido.
So, like he would like give meprojects to do and then I would

(46:07):
have to show him proof that I'mcompleting these projects as
well and he would say that Iwouldn't be contributing as much
, even though I mean, we knowwhat it's like as mothers to
raise children but also work atthe same time and take care of a

(46:28):
house and all of theirresponsibilities that come along
with that.
Yeah, that is also a trigger forme as well, I feel you there?

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, I've had a hard time maintaining employment,
since.
Everything has happened Prettymuch since that point.
Actually, I was hired for asix-month contract as an editor
for this like food subscriptioncompany and it was a lot of work
but I could at least, you know,make it work within my schedule

(47:01):
, so I wasn't necessarily stuckin meetings all day.
I could work at 9 pm and, youknow, have it be done the next
day.
So I was making it work for me.
But then when, after my firstson was diagnosed and then my
second son was flagged forautism, it became like really
overwhelming and I ended uphaving to leave that that

(47:23):
employment early and and thenfurther down the line, like that
became fuel for him to toessentially imply that I was
unemployable and unable to work,although he has seen me like I
am a hustler at heart, like Ihave built businesses from

(47:44):
scratch, I had an Etsy shop,like I was trying my best to
contribute in ways that weredriving me forward and things
that I felt that I waspassionate about and it was
never enough, it was never goingto be enough.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
How is it that raising two neurodivergent
toddlers, managing a household,cooking, cleaning, advocating
for early intervention, runninga business and still trying to
be a person somehow isn't seenas real work?
Some narcissists will alwaysreach for the one thing that

(48:26):
they think makes them superior,just so they can tear you down.
For Stephanie's ex, it was apaycheck, just so they can tear
you down.
For Stephanie's ex, it was apaycheck.
For mine it was hours logged onthe clock.
And for someone listening,maybe it was a college degree or
the fact that he never raisedhis voice or that you were the

(48:50):
emotional one.
But here's what's reallyhappening.
It's about control.
It's about shifting the focusaway from their shortcomings and
shining a flashlight on yours,or at least convincing you that
there's something wrong with you.
And this tactic classicminimize your contributions,

(49:11):
undermine your financial value,ignore the mental load you carry
every single second of the day,and then hold it all over your
head like it's proof that you'renot enough.
Let me be really clear aboutthis being a stay-at-home mom is
a full-time job.
Time job so is caregiving, sois surviving.

(49:40):
And if someone is using yourunpaid labor as a weapon instead
of a shared sacrifice, that'snot partnership, that's power
imbalance, and it's not justunfair, it's abusive.
Did he ever kind of minimizethe things that brought you joy
too?

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Oh, yeah, yeah 100%, but that was like, that was him
being threatened by my light,like that was him just.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I'm really glad that you say that, because I don't
know that there.
I know that there are othervictims out there who may still
be in a relationship, who arelistening to this episode, who
don't quite have the words forthat feeling.
Yeah, I was always made fun ofbecause I was in radio and.

(50:27):
I love editing audio, I mean,that's why I have a podcast.
And he would be like that andhe would a podcast, and he would
be like that and he would callme weird.
And he would be like what areyou contributing to the world?
Like when you're just sittingbehind your computer and blah,
blah, blah.
And I think that you sayinglike that's them being

(50:49):
intimidated by your light andyour joy.
Bingo, babe, write that down,keep that and you're not good.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Because you're not wrong for the things that you
love, especially when they makeyou happy and they're not
hurting anyone else.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
I know, after, in the fall like of last year, after I
lost Alice, after I had themiscarriage again, everything
sort of went to shit.
I lost my job.
I was a librarian at that point.
I had been at the library foralmost a full year and I was let
go and instead of him steppingup to finally pay child support

(51:28):
which is still an issue hehasn't paid any since our
separation and it's been a yearand a half now.
Um, he questioned like what Iwould do for work next, and I
was like like I don't owe youthat information.
That's not, it's not up to youanymore.
And he was like well, well,what is it like?
What are you hiding?

(51:49):
And I was like I, I am gonna,I'm going all in on my social
media Like I, I don'tnecessarily know what's next,
but I know that I want to createcontent like that that excites
me, that drives me and thatturned into writing and that
feels way more authentic.
But at the time I didn't reallyknow and especially telling him

(52:09):
was intimidating, because Iknew his reaction and I was
right and thinking because helooked at me, laughed at my face
, like he went good luck withthat.
And then he turned around andwalked away and in that moment I
was like I am going to provethis motherfucker Right, like

(52:30):
you're going to prove him wrong.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
I loved what you said in your story that you sent to
me.
I hope this finds you unwell.
You had said because you talkedabout going all in on your
social media, and I talk aboutthat too, in the sense of like
healing happens in community.
I fully believe that, and yousaid sharing my journey through
healing as the furthest thingfrom easy, but it has proven

(52:54):
shockingly rewarding just howmuch people relate to what I
share.
It's true what they say Natureloves courage.
When you open up to the world,it opens itself beyond what you
can conceive in your previouslevel of awareness, and I was
like, yes, yes.
I like wanted to like slam mylaptop shut because I was like,

(53:15):
okay done, like I've read allthat I've needed to read here.
But I just like that piece ofyou saying that you know, like
I'm just going to go all in onthis, I'm going to, I'm going to
believe in myself, I'm going togo chase after something,
something that like brings mejoy.
I cannot emphasize on thisenough the fact that allowing

(53:37):
yourself to do the things afterleaving abuse, that like that
make you happy and just give youlike that smallest amount of
peace, those are the things thatyou're supposed to be living
for, and I know that we losethat in abuse.
But then, like, once you openup and you start to find a
community on whatever that is itcould be writing, like you, or

(54:02):
editing like me, or knitting, Idon't care you find your
community and then through that,you're also going to find
validation for the person thatyou are, because you have to
fight so hard to be, this personthat you know deep down you are
when you're in abuse, becausesomeone is constantly telling
you that you're never goodenough.

(54:22):
Yeah, so I just I wanted totouch on that because I thought
that that was so relatable andabsolutely beautiful.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Thank you.
To me, I think, like posting isan exercise of unlearning shame
, like I was made to feel shameliterally my whole life and he
has been banking on that that Iwould feel so ashamed that I
would maintain my silence and hewould benefit off of it.
And you know the first fewvideos I posted like you can see

(54:52):
when you post a video how manypeople share your video.
And there's this one video oflike me laughing at myself in
the mirror and I thought thatwas like so symbolic because I
just like have learned to nottake myself so seriously and
like to enjoy my reflection.
I used to not be able to lookat myself in the mirror Like I
was a shell of myself.

(55:13):
That video you posted the otherday saying you felt vacant.
I was in therapy and I rememberto this day my therapist being
like Can you name one hobby, onehobby that you have that's
yours?
And I couldn't, I couldn't forthe life of me, come up with one
single thing that lit me upbesides like providing for my
husband and my children.
Like that was such a low for meand I'm I'm now at the point

(55:39):
where I can't like there's notenough room, and on on both my
hands to name all of my hobbies,like I'm so driven by so many
different things and I am likefeeling this sense of
fulfillment now that I didn'thave previously.
But you know, yeah, he was justbanking on on on my

(56:04):
insecurities, on my shame, and Ijust said, fuck that.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
These kinds of abusers, the ones who laugh in
your face when you share yourdream, or call your hobbies
worthless or make you feel likeloving something deeply is
childish or embarrassing they'renot being honest critics.
They're being strategic.
Strategic because they've liedto themselves and they want to

(56:33):
tell themselves that they haveto find a way to feel better
than your power, because themoment that you start to feel
good, you start to remember whoyou are, and the moment when you
remember who you are, youbecome harder to control.
This is part of the reason thatI tell victims who are still

(56:55):
stuck in abuse to find youranger.
That's why Stephanie's exmocked her.
That's why so many survivorswill tell you that their partner
didn't just belittle them.
They belittled the brightestparts of them.
Remember how, in my story, Isaid that my personality was the

(57:18):
thing that he started to attackthe most and first in that
relationship, because that wassomething that made me bright
and that's what moments likethis moment right here, that's
what makes it so powerful,because when she says fuck that,
she's not just rejecting him,she's rejecting every single lie

(57:44):
that said that she had tominimize herself to be loved.
Joy you'll find if you're stillstuck in an abusive
relationship.
Right now, when us survivorsreclaim it, even in the smallest
ways, like laughing at theirreflection or posting that first

(58:04):
vulnerable video, we shift theentire story, the entire
narrative.
So if you're listening rightnow and there's something that
brings you peace, that bringsyou joy, that brings you love,
if you have something thatlights you up, hold it close,
protect it, share it wheneveryou're ready.

(58:26):
I want to know, but never giveit up because someone else has
threatened you, because youshine too bright.
I hit stop recording after Irecorded that last bit Because I

(58:50):
just I had to ground myself alittle bit.
I've been kind of mouthy.
This episode no passionate.
I've been passionate.
This episode, I feel like lastweek really got me going and now
this I'm just.
I think I'm reaching the pointof like finding my anger again

(59:12):
and maybe that's just a reallygood educational tool for me.
I don't know.
Anyway, I think I'm justaudibly processing, I'm sorry.
Thank you for joining me forthis powerful wow conversation
with Stephanie.
She's really been through itand she's still found a way to

(59:33):
rebuild, to reclaim her voiceand to say fuck that to anything
that tried to keep her small.
If you're a survivor listeningto this.
I hope that you heard pieces ofyourself in this story.
It's powerful, it's badass.
The heartbreak, the rage, thetiny sparks of joy, the

(59:53):
rediscovery even of who you arebeneath the shame, beyond the
silence.
And whether you're still in thethick of it, freshly out or
years into healing, pleaseremember that your voice matters
.
It is your story to tell andyou will find your joy again,

(01:00:16):
joy that's your birthright girl.
It's not a bonus.
So if this episode resonatedwith you, please share it with
someone who needs it.
All right, like.
Let's help these stories reachthe victims and survivors who
need to hear them.
If you want to share your story, I do appreciate you sending me

(01:00:41):
an email.
Dismissed true stories atthesurvivorsisterhoodcom.
I'm pretty sure that's in theshow notes.
If not, I'll update it, Ipromise.
Anyways, we're buildingsomething really freaking real
over here, because healinghappens in community and you

(01:01:02):
don't have to do this aloneanymore.
Thank you so much for beinghere with me.
I'll see you next Friday andremember the world is a better
place because you are in it.
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