Archie Never Dies (Except that One Time)

Dive into the remarkable transformation of America's longest-running comic book franchise as we explore how Archie Comics evolved from wholesome teenage stories to groundbreaking horror, genre-bending crossovers, and multimedia dominance.

The year 2009 marked a pivotal turning point when John Goldwater Jr. took the reins following the passing of the previous leadership. What followed was nothing short of revolutionary—Archie Comics became the first major publisher to embrace same-day digital releases, introduced Riverdale's first openly gay character Kevin Keller, and ventured into mature storytelling with "Life with Archie," which culminated in Archie's heroic death protecting Senator Keller from assassination.

Most surprising was Archie's bold foray into horror with titles like "Afterlife with Archie" and "The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina," reimagining these beloved characters in genuinely terrifying scenarios. We examine how these titles weren't merely shock value but thoughtful explorations of the characters' relationships in extreme circumstances. Meanwhile, crossovers with everyone from the Punisher and Predator to KISS and the Ramones demonstrated the remarkable versatility of these iconic characters.

What makes Archie's evolution truly fascinating is how these characters function as universal archetypes that work across genres—whether in post-apocalyptic wastelands, mecha anime homages, or multiverse adventures. This adaptability has allowed Archie to remain culturally relevant across multiple generations and media formats, from comics to television hits like "Riverdale" and "Sabrina."

The enduring appeal of Archie Comics lies in its representation of an idealized American teenage experience—a nostalgic foundation that, when combined with a willingness to evolve with the times, has enabled this franchise to thrive for nearly a century. Join us as we celebrate how Archie has managed to stay true to its essence while constantly reinventing itself for new audiences and changing times.

Subscribe now and share your favorite Archie memories or modern interpretations in the comments!

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Perfect chughead.
Fuck you, Moose.
Get in there, Reggie.
Gentlemen.
Let's broaden our minds.

SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
I mean the proper approach, button for today.
Negative.
Oh button! Charge the lightningfield.

SPEAKER_01 (00:34):
I don't think they made that Archie comic, but I
can't be sure.

SPEAKER_02 (00:38):
It's hard to say.
They did do a lot of weirdstuff.
They did a lot of weird stuff.
We will get to that.
Well, welcome back to DispatchHX.
I'm Skip MJ.
That's true.
We are going to finish up withArchie today, and the reason we
did so many episodes aboutArchie is because Archie got
weird.
Long time Yeah, there's a lot ofArchie out there, you know?

(00:59):
We don't think about it, butit's actually a mainstay of
American comics for nearly acentury now.
And pop culture.
And pop culture in general.
And they not only put out a lotof stuff, they put a lot of
stuff you didn't know was Archieor or even related to Archie,
and is remarkably successful.
So we are finally in sort oflike the final phase of Archie.

(01:22):
By final I mean up to now.
It's Archie, the endgame.
Oh man, so many people die.
Some of your favoritecharacters.
Actually, that is true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If the post-2000 or post-90sArchie was the Renaissance, with
all their weird crossovers andquirks and interesting things

(01:42):
they tried to do, thenpost-2009-2010 is the
enlightenment of Archie.
And so we're gonna cover both ofthose in finality today.
Indeed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
So we were in the 90s before.
We did a little detour throughSonic, which was a property that
was very important to ArchieComics as a whole, helping them
business-wise, and then reallygiving them a platform to reach
a different set of customers andreaders that they hadn't before.
And that started in 92, 93, butthey were still doing stuff in

(02:17):
actual Archie Dem during thistime.
So in 94, you had what's what'stermed the love showdown between
Betty and Veronica.
Now this love triangle got amajor boost in 1984.
Sorry, my notes are all uhscrewed up.
Uh I think Jughead uh was eatinga burger and some of his ketchup
fell on I think I think it wasWimpy and he framed uh Jughead,

(02:40):
to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
See what happened here.

SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Oh, the great the great Wimpy Jughead burger off
the Burger Wars.
Ah, the Burger Wars.

SPEAKER_02 (02:51):
Yeah, somehow Taco Bell still came out on top.
It was a harrowing time.
We all remember how it affectedour lives, how many brave men
and women were lost in theBurger Wars.
Many Bothins died to bring youthis these burger wars.
We had fatigue after the ColaWars and the chicken sandwich
skirmishes of the uh 2020s, butthe burger wars really are a

(03:11):
lasting scar on society.
Poor one out for all those wholost in the great burger
catastrophe.
For a man named Whippy, he sureheld out for a long time.
Like the Blitz.
I'm proud of him.
I'm proud of you, Whippy.
I really am.
It was an ironic name.
Like Tiny.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's like, yeah, he went throughthe essentially the Dunkirk of
the burger wars.

SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
He he was olive oil's secret lover because hey,
he ate burgers and she ate hotdog, if you know what I'm
saying.
That wasn't that wasn't wimpy.

SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
Yeah, I could really go down that.
I'm not gonna uh I bet you couldslide right down that olive oil.

SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
Um Alright, so for this love showdown between Betty
and Veronica in the 90s, Archiereceives a letter, and it's a
secret letter, and so they'retrying to figure out who it is,
and over the course of manymonths and several titles, the
readers finally find out whothis mystery woman who was
reaching out to Archie was, andit was Cheryl Blossom.
The Cheryl Blossom was last seenin 1985.

(04:10):
The return of Cheryl was metwith much enthusiasm, so much so
that she was featured in severaltitles over the next few years
until she was given her owncomic in 1997, when Jason
Blossom was also resurrected atthis time.
And then in 1985, Archie becamethe official ambassador for the
United Cerebal PalsyAssociation.

(04:31):
The characters endorsed healthylifestyle choices and staying
away from drugs and alcohol.
Thanks, Archie.
Lame.
I don't dare you to say that toArchie's face.
Oh, I'd say to his face.
I'd dub his books.
I know, it was the the darething.
Also, in the late 90s in 1996,to be to be precise, Showtime

(04:52):
produced a full-length featurefilm starring Sabrina, the
teenage witch.

SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
This starred Melissa Joan Hart and was such a hit
that she went on to get her ownTV show on ABC that lasted
almost a decade and really gaveMelissa Joan Hart career.

SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (05:10):
Made her a household name.
In 1997.
That in the Hallmark Channel.
Well, you know, get in where youfit in.
In 1997, Archie pushes forwardin an area that a lot of the
competitors of Archie werereally kind of lagging behind
and really brought comics into anew realm.
Archie Comics Online debuts in1997.

(05:30):
That's really ahead of the time.
Yeah, it was a whole differentAOL disc that you got there.
It was in the form of a burgeror jughead crown.

SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Well, I mean, we were literally at that point
still this defining whatcyberspace was.
We were still dealing withcyberpunk at that point.
And they've already moved intothat space.

SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
I mean, this is this is a I don't even know.
Do we have land connections atthis point?
I mean, other than universitiesand big corporations, I think
this was still mostly dial up atthis point in 1997.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah.
I mean, it's around to thattime.
Yeah.
So Archie keeps chugging along.
In 2000, we get Archie's 500thissue.
In 2001, Archie ComicsEntertainment LLC is finally

(06:10):
established.
Finally.
In 2004, IDT Entertainment buysan equity stake in Archie Comics
Entertainment.
And then we get to the early2000s.
John Goldwater, John's son, tookover in 2009 after the death of
Richard Goldwater and MichaelSilverclite.

SPEAKER_02 (06:29):
Yeah, they those were the two oldest.
They were the sons of theoriginal founders.

SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
The oldest sons.
They really wanted to maintainthe classic Archie image, which
includes not just the aesthetic,but also the tone and the
messaging, form of storytelling,though that had already become
sort of increasingly stale.
They ended up being kind oflitigious.
For instance, a trademarklawsuit against Warner Music

(06:55):
Group in 2005, because theypromoted and released an album
by the Veronicas, which is, ofcourse, an Archie reference, but
I mean that seems a little thatseems like a stretch.
In an interview with the NewYork Times, Michael Silverclate
told the reporter that, quote,the importance of the image of
Archie, which everybody knows isgood, clean, and wholesome
stuff, without that image we'renothing.

(07:16):
So then that was like a realdowntime, and we'll get into
some of the other other stuffthat they tried to innovate
with, you know, multimediaArchie cross-pollination,
vertical integration kind ofshit, in a bit.
But I mean, this was kind of adark time for Archie.
They tried to do some new stuff.
They did some interestingthings, like some of the
crossovers we're gonna talkabout, but they were steadfast

(07:38):
and holding on to the look andthe aesthetic of Archie so much
that it kept them from beinginnovative in any real
meaningful way.
And it wasn't until both of themdied of cancer within a year of
each other, which is fuckingcrazy.
And it sounds like they werekilled by a supervillain
secretly.
You mean the fathers.
The original patriarchs diedfrom cancer within a year of

(08:00):
each other.
And then Richard Goldwater'shalf-brother, John, gave up his
career as a music executive tokeep Archie in the family.
Then John Goldwater Jr.
became the Archie comic CEO andpublisher in 2009.
And Goldwater and Silverclyde'seldest sons, Richard and
Michael, were co-CEOs.
Lewis's son died around the sametime that the original Goldwater

(08:24):
CEO died.
So Richard Goldwater and MichaelSilverclite took over the
company as co-CEOs from theirfathers in 1983.
Both of those dudes died.
Wasn't Richard Richard wasJohn's oldest son.
It was a legacy thing.

SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
I thought John Goldwater was John's son.

SPEAKER_02 (08:43):
He is.
He's Richard's half-brother.
And he's older than John, Jr.
So the two matriarchs thematriarchs, Jesus Christ.
The two patriarchs who createdwho founded Archie Comics, they
retired in 83.
Each of their eldest sons becameco-CEOs, and then they both died
within a year of each other ofcancer in 2009.
Richard's half-brother.

(09:06):
Who we're talking about?
Both Michael and Richard died.
The original CEOs.
No, the sons of the originalfounders both died of cancer in
2009, within a year of eachother.
And they were the eldest sons ofthe founders.
Gotcha.
The half-brother of Richard,John Jr., gave up his career as
a music executive, and that's in2009 when everything changes.

(09:28):
That's John Goldwater Jr.
He becomes CEO and publisher.
John Goldwater died in 1999.
But that's where we are at thispoint.
During the 83 to 2009 period wasthis kind of tumultuous thing
where they tried differentmultimedia stuff and different
approaches, but they also didn'twant to change the content tone
or direction of the books, andso they became a bit of a parody

(09:50):
of themselves.
They didn't change with thetimes, and so they lost
relevancy essentially, and theykind of faded into the
background.
Though they had a loyal enoughfollowing with nostalgia and
constant publication, and someof the innovations that they
tried to do toward the end oftheir lives, they were kind of
thought of as a Joe, or forkids, or for old people.
And in 2009, things really startto change.

(10:12):
John Goldwater Jr.
seems to understand the way thewind is blowing.
If they want to stay relevant,they're going to have to do some
serious changes.
So John Goldwater Jr.
did implemented a lot ofreforms.
He had uh quite a task, and Itouched on this briefly in our
first episode.
His half-brother and and MichaelSilbercly wanted to maintain a
certain and you you canunderstand why they wanted to

(10:33):
maintain a certain reverence andloyalty to the original
aesthetic and storytellingvisions of their fathers.
It's kind of the Clark Huntscenario, like how do you update
by keeping it the same, youknow?
But uh John Jr.
came in and he had an outsideperspective.
You know, he wasn't too close tothe scenario, so he realized
that they had to they were gonnahave to do some stuff.
And instead of doing an ArchDeluxe McDonald's rebrand that

(10:57):
was a failure, they decided todo something that was more
culturally relevant and thatactually examined where culture
was and where culture was goingbefore they started just carte
blanche rebooting.
Because a hard reboot would havereally alienated their original
fans.
If they tried to do the Mastersof the Universe reboot, where

(11:20):
they're suddenly they're in thefuture and it's not called
Eternia anymore, you're gonnafail, and that's why that show
ended up sucking.
But if you take it a contextwhere Archie is in society
currently, where he could fit inwhy he would be relevant, bring
in some talent, really think outhow these things are gonna
evolve, and take a modernapproach that isn't a culture

(11:41):
shock, then it might work.
And, crazily enough, it did.
When he was handed the reins,the distribution of Archie
Comics digests in places likegrocery stores, like we had
mentioned before, or like WaldenBooks, or places like that in
malls or or whatever, kind ofkept it alive, basically either
through nostalgia or pricepoint, and the ironic early
online presence of Archie keptit like in the forefront of

(12:04):
media consumption.
But now we're really gonna haveto rethink the identity.
And the Archie Comics apppremiered in 2010, making it
really easy to find old backissues and new issues coming off
the shelves.
So it was actually the firstmajor American comics publisher
to offer new digital issues onthe same release date as the

(12:25):
printed copies.
It made them cutting edge, itmade their distribution model
more efficient, and actuallyreached a bigger audience
because they really weren'tselling a lot in comic book
stores, they were sellingbasically in other ancillary
media, in a different format.
So this kind of really broughttheir actual original comics
format back into mayberelevancy, but also at least
sort of like it was seen more.

(12:46):
On September 1st, 2010, Veronicanumber 202 introduced
Riverdale's first openly gaycharacter, Kevin Keller.
And then soon after, Life withArchie No.
1 debuted, which was supposed tobe Archie being an adult, and
not just some teenage kid inRiverdale forever, which sounds
like a horrible like TwilightZone episode.
The weird thing was that thisseries, it featured him being

(13:09):
married to both Betty andVeronica in two separate
timelines to see how those wouldunfold.
I don't know why that worked,but it did.
People were fascinated.

SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
It's always interesting to see the changes
and and you know, if you takethe different path how that
might go.
And this is the I mean, Archiethe Ultimate can't decide
between X and Y.

SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
Yeah, so let's see where they both went.
It's Marianne and Ginger, it'sBetty and Veronica.
I mean, I mean these are theseare classic like tropes in
American pop culture.
Kind of Mary, Jane, and Gwen,but Gwen died, so that's weird.
There's a lot going on there.
But Lana and Lois, you know,it's this whole like, I have
different relationships withdifferent people.
How am I going to negotiatethose?
Which is better?

(13:50):
And I mean that goes across allsorts of pop culture.

SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
So I mean, it's it's it's in lost with Kate and
Sawyer versus Jack, you know,like it's it's a universal
story, which is one of thereasons that it's persisted and
is so culture relevant to thisday.

SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
And somehow it worked, and it became popular,
and then so Kevin Keller gowould go on to start in his own
series, and Life with Archie wasa big hit.
It didn't have a lot of sex orviolence, but it was adult
because it dealt with adultissues.
Not like Capital A adult, butlike, you know, you know, just
things about being an adult.
And it dealt with some really wetalked about it a little bit,

(14:26):
but some actually controversialstuff like gun control and
same-sex marriage, the economy.
And then, of course, the seriesended with issue 36 in 2014,
with Archie sacrificing his lifeto stop an assassination attempt
on Kevin, who was now a USsenator.
It was in the top 30best-selling comics of that
month, selling nearly 30 timesas many copies as the issue

(14:48):
before it.

SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Yeah.
Because in the 2010s, uh, themonthly comic books were being
outsold three to one by thedigests.
And in 2014, sales for Archiecomics had dropped below 10,000
copies an issue.

SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
Oof.

SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
So some of this life with Archie stuff, especially
the death of Archie, was reallya shot in the arm.
Uh big time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
And so now they're gonna they realize this is
lucrative and people areresponding well to it, so
they're going, like, well, let'sgo down the rabbit hole.
Then premieres Afterlife withArchie, a horror title.
Which sounds weird on itssurface, but if you really think
about the history of Archie,they've dabbled in this before
in many ways with Sabrina theTeenage Witch and certain other
titles.
They all have always kind ofdipped their toes in the

(15:32):
supernatural, the horror side ofthings.
Not quite the sanitized versionthat you see in like Harvey
comics with Casper, butsomething more a little darker,
a little dark twinge, and nowthey're just going to embrace
it.
So they do Afterlife with Archiewith Roberto Aguirre Sakasa and
art by Francesco Villacavilla.
Francavia is Francavia.

(15:53):
I don't know why I'm an idiot.
In this one, they talk aboutSabrina, who accidentally
unleashes a zombie virus, asupernatural zombie outbreak.
Because she's trying to revivethe dead dog of Archie's best
friend, Jughead, but itbackfires, and Jughead is the
first citizen of Riverdale tobecome a zombie.
This is essentially the exactplot of Simpsons Tree House of

(16:15):
Horror either two or three,where they find a book of spells
and Lisa tries to resurrectSnowball, their dead cat, and
then unfortunately raises thedead.
And it has that great scenewhere they go to their dad, we
need your help.
You're like, Did you wreck thecar?
No.
Did you raise the dead?
Yes.
But the car's okay.

(16:36):
So so this is where it startsgetting super weird.
And we did talk about this alittle bit before.
Archie is forced to kill azombie version of his father.
He kills zombie Cheryl Blossomand her infected twin brother
with a machete, like 28 dayslater.
So this is a quote from a Voxarticle by Oliver Salva.

Quote (16:52):
All of this antithetical to the Archie tradition of
kid-friendly comic hijinks, butafterlife with Archie isn't just
giving Riverdale a superficialhorror makeover.
The creative team is using thesegenre elements to explore the
world of Archie comics from anew angle, and this fresh
context brings out differentaspects of the character
relationships while upending theexpectations of what an Archie

(17:13):
story should look like.
And I think that's true.
That ended up being a prettypopular book as well.
Also in 2014, they launched TheChilling Adventures of Sabrina,
which was an homage to EC horrorcomics of the 70s, but it still
maintained Sabrina's like 1950saesthetic at the same time.
And that was also the same yearthat they announced the
development of the TV adaptationof Archie, the most modern TV

(17:36):
adaptation of Archie, Riverdale,which was to air on the CW under
the direction of Greg Berlanteof The Aeroverse, former comic
book writer turned mid-range TVquality universe, The Aeroverse.
Though he gotta say, he had alot of successes, so did
something right.
And that brought even moremodern eyes toward the Archie

(17:58):
imprint, and the brand startedreally picking up.
And the Goldwater decided to dothe same approach to the entire
Archie line with a creativeoverhaul.
And so the Chili Adventures ofSabrina did culminate with the
official debut of a new Archieimprint, the Archie horror
imprint, that tries to dive intothis relatively popular new

(18:22):
angle on Riverdale.
So this led to, of course, likeI said, a creative overhaul in
the actual books themselves.
So in 2015, there was thefounding of Dark Circle Comics,
which was a sub-imprint ofArchie, I'm guessing in
reference to Red Circle Comicsin the 70s, which was their
attempt to go back into thesuperhero branch of Archie

(18:45):
Comics, which is how it startedin the first place.
Dark Circle Comics, which isalso a rehashing of Impact
Comics, published by DC Comicsthat just sort of leased these
Archie superhero characters inthe 90s, included superheroes
like The Fox, The Black Hood,The Shield, and The Hangman and
The Web.
And this was done by somerelatively high profile writers

(19:07):
and artists, including MarkWade, and that went on for a
while.
I don't think that imprint isstill around.
I don't think that's becausethat was 10 years ago.
I don't think it's still around.
It was probably short-listed.
Yeah.
But at least they try, you know?
And of course, then that sameyear, they straight up rebooted
Archie itself with writer MarkWade and artist Fiona Staples of

(19:27):
Saga Fame.

SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Yes, this is because the Archie, long-running Archie
comics, ends with issue 666 onJune 30, June 3rd, 2015.
And you have Archie number onerelaunching July 8th.
But not everything at this timewas smooth sailing flowing off
the back of this excitement andsuccess.

(19:51):
Archie decided to utilize someof their like always being first
to things and pushing ahead.
What if we try to crowdfund somenew titles to really get them
out there and get them get themlaunched?
So they started a Kickstarteraiming to raise$350,000 to
accelerate the launch of threenew comic books spinning out of

(20:15):
that summer's relaunch.
The series were Jughead, Bettyand Veronica, and Life with
Kevin, all featuring AdamHughes, Chip Zadarsky, and Dan
Parent.
This was unfortunately met withan extreme backlash.
A lot of people were very angryat this, and they had to cancel
that Kickstarter and issueapologies.

(20:36):
For those who did donate to theKickstarter during the short
tenure, I think there were 642people who did, raising$34,000.
They received a quote unquotespecial thank you gift from the
publisher, according to ArchieCEO John Gold.

SPEAKER_02 (20:50):
I feel like that was all culture war backlash, too,
that it wasn't it was likemanufactured controversy.
I don't know that it was likeArchie fans that were upset
about it.
I I it feels like it was culturewar stuff, you know, the you
know, the right-wing specialinterest groups upset that Kevin
had his own title, that kind ofthing.
It could be.

SPEAKER_01 (21:08):
These are all books that did come out.
They were all planned to comeout.
This is just like trying to pushthem a little bit sooner, and I
just don't think it was metwell.
But that didn't mean that, asyou said, when Archie, the main
title ended and new Archiestarted in July, that it wasn't
a huge deal.
And and really putting Archie onthe map again as something new

(21:31):
and exciting for both longtimefans and new readers to engage
with.

SPEAKER_02 (21:35):
Yeah, I mean, because now you have a huge new
audience with that and withRiverdale coming into the CW
sort of ecosystem.
They things are actually lookingup for Archie.
They seem to have found a newGen Z audience, and that's a big
deal because if a new generationof people pick up on an old
property, then it's gonna lastfor a while.

SPEAKER_01 (21:54):
The Archie's new title, The New Numbering
Started.
Again, this was kind of a moreupdated both look and feel to
Archie.
In the end of 2018, at issue,which would have been 33 of the
new series, they took the oldnumbering of the original
series, 699, so they could havea big 700th issue in January of
2019, and that book did last upuntil September 2020, ending at

(22:20):
issue 713.

SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
This is where you get, if I remember right, the
launch of the new imprint,Archie Blue Ribbon.
Okay, so Archie Blue Ribbon wasit was released in 2020, where
they did a sort of uh Bruce Timsort of take visually on uh
Betty and Veronica, startingwith the title Betty and
Veronica The Bond of Friendshipin April of 2020, and then

(22:45):
Riverdale, The Ties That Bind inNovember of 2020.
It said, see, Alex Segura, who'snow Archie Comics co-president,
which is good for them.
He said, quote, the biggestgrowth in comics can be seen in
bookstores and in the youngadult space, and our characters
are so perfectly suited to tellthese types of stories.
I have to point to our growingpartnership with Scholastic as a
big eye-opener.

(23:06):
That's interesting.
It showed us there's a strongyoung adult readership from our
IP, and it goes along with thehuge awareness created by our
media adaptations like Riverdaleand Sabrina.
It felt like the perfect time toreally dive into the space and
format.

SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
Because these were original graphic novels they're
producing at this time.
I think very similar to theyoung adult stuff that DC was
putting out at a similar time.

SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
I do believe this was also relatively short-lived.
That was only five years ago,and I've never heard of them.
So I'm pretty sure it didn'tlast all that long.
But they took another swing.
And these are a littlestandalone-ish, so they're not
really failures, no matter what,because it didn't necessarily

(23:53):
need to lead to a new re youknow, imagining of the entire
universe.
These are sort of like when theyused to put out the the comic
versions of like that main theanimated series or Superman
Adventures or whatever.
They could they could kind oflive on their own in these forms
for specific audiences and stillwork.

SPEAKER_01 (24:12):
So they weren't which is something that I think
Archie has excelled at, tryingout new things and trying to
stay relevant with what isinteresting and new and popular,
whether that's you know, liketheir big overhaul reboot,
similar to the Riverdale series,where it's like modern art in a
modern time, their graphicnovels, they're designed for

(24:33):
younger readers, or you know,just capturing what is popular
around them at the time.

SPEAKER_02 (24:38):
As much as the pre-2009 era was a little stuck
in its ways, it did do someother weird stuff.
Not just crossovers that you'regonna talk about, but also there
was a period between 2007 and2010 when they did try to do
some different looks anddifferent feels aesthetically

(25:00):
and storytelling-wise, that weresort of testing the waters for
what would eventually come underJohn Jr.
They did once again, these aredigest forms, so it's one of the
reasons that we don't reallythink about them that much.
But you did Bad Boy Trouble inBetty and Veronica Double Digest
in 2007, an art called TheMatchmakers in Jughead's Double
Digest in 2008, Breakup Blues inArchie's Pals and Gals Double

(25:24):
Digest from 2008 to 2009, MyFather's Betrayal in Betty and
Veronica Double Digest inMay-August 2009, Goodbye
Forever, Archie's Double DigestJuly to November 2009, A Funny
Kind of Love in Archie Pals andGals from 2009 to 2010, and then
No Baseball for Betty, okay, inBetty and Veronica Double Digest

(25:47):
in 2010.
And I think those were the lastof the digest exclusive arcs
that they were doing.
These were a complete aestheticbreakaway.
And you can get them onComixology.
At least it used to be.
I don't know if you still can,but these were aesthetically
different.
They were a more modern look.
To be honest, the art kind ofsucks.
I don't think it's high quality,and they still kind of stick to

(26:09):
a lot of the archy setups.
But it did have some creatorsthat were kind of famous.
Terry Austin did some of thewriting, or no, some of the
inking, actually, which is, youknow, that's not even a job
anymore.
Norman Brayfogel did some of theartwork.
There was an attempt.
We don't really think about thisera because it only lasted until
the reboot that we're talkingabout, but it is worth noting.

(26:30):
Before John Jr.
did know the writing was on thewall, they just didn't go all
the way.
And so that's something to atleast look into.
And like I said, these weren'teven comic books, these were
digest form only.
Because that's what they thoughtthey were now relegated to.
John Jr., I think changedeverybody's perspective on that.

SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
And something like the Double Digest, just Betty
and Veronica's, you know, Imean, it started in 1987 and
it's still going to this day,even though I think they've
reverted back to collectingolder stories.
But yeah, with the reboot,obviously they're like
progressing storytellingforward, but they have found
ways to stay relevant andexciting for decades before

(27:08):
that, and still going today.
Now, a lot of this has comethrough something that's
extremely popular, especiallywith smaller publications.
You're Marvel and DC, they theydefinitely dominate everything.
And so a way for a smallercompany and smaller, less
well-known characters is tocross-pollinate.

(27:28):
Crossovers, special events wherethese characters meet each other
is a big boom for sales andexcitement.
And Archie is no stranger tothat.
They have nigh on countlesscrossovers of a wide-ranging
variety and quality.
And we're talking a lot.
Just as a preview here, you haveArchie's encounter with Kiss,

(27:52):
the band.
Archie crossing over with the TVshow Glee.
Which kind of makes sense,really.
Yeah, I do think one thing thatArchie does well most of the
time is choosing things thateither fit like a glove
together, something like Archiemeets Glee, or something that's
so off the wall you'reautomatically drawn to it.

(28:14):
And we'll cover a bit of both ofthose in just a minute.
Archie meets Batman66, the AdamWest one.
Oh, great.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Archie meets Flash Gordon.
Awesome.
Archie and the Ramones.
Archie versus Shark NATO.
Oh boy.
Archie meets Teenage MutantNinja Turtles.
Now this is 1991 at thebeginning of Archie Comics

(28:35):
producing TMNT books.
This is a great crossover to uhbring those together.
But you definitely have a lot ofother really interesting things.
As things progress withcrossovers, especially when you
see your heavy hitterscrossovers, now I kind of was
looking into which character hashad the most crossovers.

(28:56):
Now it's hard to really pin thatdown.
If you're looking likeunheralded crossovers, you're
probably gonna look at someonelike a character like Wolverine
or Batman or Spider-Man.
Spider-Man, yeah.
Especially outside of the bigtwo, one that I think I saw as a
big heavy hitter would beVampirella.
Vampirella runs the gamut ofcrossovers, producing many, many

(29:20):
crossovers over many decades andjust like pumping them out with
a wide variety of differentcompanies, different characters,
whether it's xenomorphs andaliens, or something like Archie
Red Sonia Vampirella?
Okay.
The Holy Trinity, yeah.
In that similar vein, you havelike a Harley and Ivy meet Betty

(29:43):
and Veronica.

SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
That's kind of that self aware later stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Yeah.
Tiny Titans meets little Archie.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
Or you start having furtheramalgamations here of like
Jughead the Hunger versusVamperonica.
Wow.
You're really mashing stufftogether.
You also have Archie, you know,versus Sharknado, Archie popping
up in Gen 13 comics, along withother characters like Hellboy,

(30:07):
Bone, and Wolverine.
Wow, that's interesting.
So for the 13th issue of Gen 13,the ongoing series, Wild Sword
celebrated by having specialcovers, and Grunt transported
the team to essentially amagical world of comics after
trading his soul for a chromiumedition of a comic book.
Wildstorm got permission to havea bunch of famous comic book

(30:28):
characters appear, like uhHellboy Bone, Wolverine, Archie,
Jughead, Betty, and Veronica.
And J.
Scott Campbell was able to drawin the traditional Archie style,
as well as using his ownparticular style.
It's particular, all right.
It is particular.
But you've also had you knowArchie staying relevant a lot of
times.

(30:49):
They were popular, especiallywith Archie's 616 and 617, the
storyline called Campaign Pains.
And this is where you had BarackObama and Sarah Palin show up.
Good.
It did do a boost for sales.
I have no doubt.
There were a couple that I tryto go out of my way and check

(31:11):
out.
One of those being the classicArchie Meets Punisher.
I had that one in digest form.
Oh, did you?
Yeah.
So this is from 1994.
They had editors' notes at thebeginning of the issue
discussing the origin of thecomic.
And it really flows out ofArchie editorial being, you
know, like, you know, it's like,hey, what's something weird we

(31:32):
could do?
What if what if Archie metPunisher?
Huh?
That'd be something.
And everybody kind of stopped.
It's like, that's an interestingidea.
And they sent it over to Marveleditorial, and they're like,
you're joking, right?
Right.
Oh, you're not joking?
Alright, let's do it.
Whatever.
That's kind of how it happens.
It's a fun tale.
If you get a chance to read it,it's pretty well done.

(31:54):
Punisher is looking to capturethis criminal who kind of looks
like a funky version of Archie,kind of like a doppelgagger.
Oh, yeah.
And so this fake Archie travelsto Riverdale and the Punisher
chases after him.
Obviously, hijinks ensue whenPunisher actually meets Archie
and mistakes him for this otherguy.

(32:15):
Archie's able to survive thatfirst encounter.
They have this back and forth.
Alright, yeah, yeah, Archieisn't this criminal, while this
fake Archie has inserted himselfinto the Riverdale lifestyle and
is is trying to we'll sayforcefully date Veronica.
That's a kind way to put it.

(32:37):
He kidnaps Veronica.
Punisher inserts himself intothe Riverdale life as a gym
teacher who's new to school.
Again, wackiness hijinks ensue.
There's a lot of in jokes, theydo a lot of references.
It's really well done, honestly,and a lot of fun.
In the end, Veronica helps takedown this non-Archie villain,

(33:00):
and Punisher saves the day.
And you kind of have thiswistful moment of Punisher kind
of sees like what his life couldhave been if his family hadn't
been murdered and he'd picked upguns and led this lifestyle as
vigilante.
And of course, Archie who'slike, hey, I can be almost
superhero and I want to beinvolved in this.

(33:21):
And you know, he's kind oflaughed off.

SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
Jigsaw in that too?
No.
Oh, maybe I'm thinking of adifferent one.

SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
Uh, the only distinctly Marvel characters
that pop up are Punisher,Microchip, which is Punisher's
tech dude.
Kind of like a tech handymanguy.
And then at the end, you get adon't remember how it happens,
but Wolverine's claws pop up.
Okay.
As in, like, there's gonna beanother crossover with
Wolverine.

(33:47):
That one never ends up coming tofruition, but it's just kind of
a little teaser at the end.

SPEAKER_02 (33:52):
Yeah, none of that kind of thing happens.

SPEAKER_01 (33:54):
Yeah.
Another one that I read for thiswas Archie versus Predator,
which is in a similar vein tothat Archie meets Punisher
storytelling.
This one that happened in 2015.
This is actually a four-issueminiseries that then spawned
another five-issue miniseriesfour years later.
This is very much like Archie'screw go on a trip to an island,

(34:19):
and the predator happens to bethere and kind of has a fixation
on Betty, which I don't reallyget.
But then there's this other sidestory of Betty and Veronica
tussling, and Betty encountersan enchanted dagger from like
ancient Aztecs.
It's a mix of wackiness, butwhat if like during the

(34:41):
wackiness people die and aremurdered by the predator?
Okay.
A little uh yeah.
It's all done again in thatoriginal in-house style, similar
to how Archie Predator was done.
I mean Archie Punisher.
It's injecting these quarterpredator tropes into things, you
know, as predators cutting headsoff, people are getting shot

(35:04):
down, Veronica's like sprayedwith blood and things.
They ended up having a back andforth as the predator mows his
way through the cast ofcharacters.
Not to spoil things, but at thevery end, Archie's killed, but
they find a way to revive him bysewing the predator head on top
of Archie's corpse, and thenit's like a pred Archie out

(35:26):
there.
Oh boy.
That follows on in the secondseries.
They abandon the old Archiehouse style for more modern
interpretation, kind of likewhat you'd see in afterlife with
Archie.
From what I read of that, it's apretty lackluster paint by
numbers.
Uh I mean, at least they'retaking swings.
Yeah, they're taking swings.

(35:46):
I think what worked the best forme of all of these that I
encountered was Archie MeetsRiverdale.
Oh, this is just a one-shot.
Yeah, this is a one-shot where,if I remember right, he's trying
to find a way to take both Bettyand Veronica to the dance, you
know, a standard Archie story.

SPEAKER_02 (36:06):
Streets Company episode.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
Now, Archie has over the years developed a huge cast
of characters.
And one of them, God, I can'tremember his name off the top of
my head.
That's the word you were lookingfor.
Oh, well, I am often looking forhead, that's true.
You can looking for head in allthe wrong places, as the song
goes.
Booking Ponub, if I rememberright.

(36:29):
So some reason I knew you weregonna go buckwheat, and I don't
know why.
The character I was trying tothink of was is Dilton Doily.
Oh, good.
Uh most most of the charactersin Archie have alliterative
names, but he's kind of like thenerd inventor trope within the
Archie world.
In Archie Meets Riverdale, hecreates kind of a doorway to
another universe, and it ends upbeing a doorway to the Riverdale

(36:53):
universe, where like it'smodern, it's done in a different
style, you know, everybody's abit more adult, that CW people
sleeping with teachers kind ofvibe.
These Riverdale characters gettransported into the Archie, and
it's fun because Betty andVeronica are like, whoa, this
guy's hot.
You know, because it's Archiewithout a shirt on, you know,

(37:16):
and you they can tell that he'ssimilar but different.
It ends up they only have solong to figure out how to send
them back, and eventuallytechnology isn't working and
it's gonna fail.
So Jughead has the great idea tocontact someone he knows who has
a different route, and that isSabrina.
Sabrina comes and uses magic tolike cross the barriers of the

(37:37):
multiverse, and then you seedifferent multiverse version of
all of the different Sabrina's,whether it's Tiny Sabrina or
like Chilling Adventures,Sabrina from the 50s, Sabrina
from the TV show, all of thesedifferent things.
She transports people back towhere they should be after
everyone has a good time on thedance floor together.
Oh, Scarlet Witch scenario wrapsup as it should.

(37:59):
Yeah.
Um, again, it's quite fun.
I was a little dubious gettinginto these because I've never
been a big Archie fan.
I didn't watch the Riverdaleshow because I didn't really
have any interest, but it was areally well-done issue, kind of
hit on all the tropes.
You know, the characters wereall really well defined and had
a fun interplay with what theold style of Archie is and the
new, new, like riskier versionsof Archie can be.

(38:22):
And I think that's one thingthat Archie has done well over
the years is stay relevant, keeptheir name out there, and push
storytelling boundaries thatmight have held them back, you
know, in the in the 80s and 90s,but do it in a more intelligent
way, I think.
I think you had a lot of stuffin the 80s and 90s they were
trying to push, you know, withthat Archie 3000 or Jughead Time

(38:45):
Police.
But when they do uh you know, anafterlife with Archie or a you
know, Archie versus Short NATOor Archie meets the Ramones,
things like this, they're tryingto like not redesign the wheel,
but you know, graft themselvesonto whatever is like exciting

(39:06):
and and interesting at the time.
This this plays out even furtherwhen I I was going through like
while I was doing this this youknow, writing some of the stuff
and looking at some of thesecomics, I was go, I was kind of
rearranging my room down here,and I happened upon a stack of
comics that I had uh procuredand was meaning to send to a

(39:29):
friend of mine, but I never theynever actually got sent.
And so I was like, oh, well letme look at some of these.
So thankfully they kind ofcovered this was let me see what
exact year and everything thisis.
So this is 2023 around themonths of like February, May,

(39:54):
and whatnot.
So I have uh Archie's ValentineSpectacular, definitely in the
old Archie style.
It has the Archie comics 80years of Archie, and these are
little vignette stories of justyour romance stuff.
Betty and Veronica FriendsForever, Rock and Roll.
This is an all-new lead story.
Joined Betty and Veronica andJoe La Kitt in their brand new

(40:17):
band.
Again, these are all kind ofstories involving Archie and
music, essentially, with a Bettyand Veronica Tinge with the
Archie Comics 80 Years banner.
But then there's another one,Archie and Friends, all new
action, with Archiesupermechateens.
I'll get into this one a littlemore in detail in a second.
Then you have the Archie Comics,the newer brand here,

(40:39):
post-reboot stuff.
And this is Archie versus theworld.
I want to get into that one abit more.
And then there were a coupleArchie Horror ones.
There's Pop's Chocolate Shop ofHorrors.
Nice.
Kind of a Tales from the Crypt,all set in the restaurant of
Riverdale where everybody kindof hangs out.
And then there was Betty.
The Chilling Adventures presentsBetty the Final Girl.

(41:02):
And this was little vignettestories of different Riverdale
girls being the final girl inlittle mini horror stories.

SPEAKER_02 (41:11):
That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 (41:12):
They were both fine.
Yeah.
What is interesting, what ispopular, what's a new way to
like incorporate the stories wedo in a new way?
All of these do that.
But I wanted to highlight alittle bit of these.
I wanted to touch on this Archieversus the world.
I don't know if you can tell,but it is what does this look
like, Skip?

SPEAKER_02 (41:31):
Uh I'm gonna say it looks a well, I've got some
Street Fighter vibes, I've gotsome twisted metal dune a little
bit, the uh David Lynch's Dune.

SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
Interesting.
Uh well, I think I think whatit's it's kind of like this
would have been 2023 in March.
If if you see like this opening,it's an old jughead discussing
the end of the world and hisadventures on the road with his
his buddy in thepost-apocalyptic wasteland.

(42:04):
Okay, so it's kind of this umthis mix of like Mad Max, but as
it goes on, it becomes likeArchie's Fist of the North Star.

SPEAKER_02 (42:12):
Oh, okay, I could see that.
Yeah, yeah, because at first Ithought like Dragon Ball Z, but
I'm like, we never really didn'tshare anything with Dragon Ball
Z, but then yeah, I could seeFist of the North Star.

SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
Yeah, yeah.
You have like um Cheryl Blossomis the queen of the Wasteland.
Oh wow making Archie and Reggie,who are like competing different
martial arts schools, as Archiehas to unleash his final form uh
to kill Reggie in a uh two menenter, one man leave battle.

(42:42):
Wow.
Yeah.
Reggie had kidnapped Veronica inthe Wasteland, and Archie's been
trying to get her back.
And Betty is like the supermechanic of the wasteland who
keeps Archie Schloppy going, andCheryl Blossom is the Tina
Turner, the warrior wastelandqueen.
And at the end, like Archie hasto like decide which of these is

(43:04):
he gonna is he gonna go with youknow power, wealth, or
happiness.
And of course, Archie decides tojust continue being the hero
that he must be in the wastelandand travel the world that has
gone to shit with his buddyJughead and his dog.
But again, this is like this islike this adult weird story, but

(43:25):
it always hits like these sametropes.

SPEAKER_02 (43:27):
Right.
Maybe the writers are finallykeying in on it that these are
actual tropes, archetypes thatendure because they are
archetypes, whether they definedthem or they represent others.

SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
Yeah, just to hit that one more time, I just want
to like focus on this Archie andfriends.
Now, this is done, as you cansee, in the more traditional
Archie style.
Uh this is the original archiestuff.
Now, this is uh Super Mechateens, Archie.
Of course.
Essentially, this is a mix ofEvangelion and Pacific Rim.

SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
Which makes it also kind of like Voltron and Power
Rangers in some sort respects,yes.

SPEAKER_01 (44:06):
Yeah.
In this one, each of the teenshas their own specific mech, and
Archie is the super driftcompatible person.
And so Archie must choose whohe's going to pair with to take
on the kaiju.
And of course, like he can'tchoose between Betty Veronica
and Cheryl's mech has alreadybeen destroyed, blossom red, and

(44:29):
so of course he can't decide,but he has to figure it out.
So he's like, oh, who's gonnachoose?
Obviously, you know, there's oneperson that hungers for heroics
in this world, and that's who heshould choose.
He's got to get into the jughead bot and take on this kaiju
with a hamburger.

SPEAKER_02 (44:48):
Oh dear lord, yes.
Yes, yeah.
It's Mayor McCheese gone wild.

unknown (44:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:56):
So last little bit, it's called Archie in Crisis on
Riverdale Earth.
Oh my god, yes, just go for it.
Yeah, uh, this is this is great.
Uh Time Police Jughead shows upon Archie's doorstep, and he
starts introducing thesedifferent archies.
There's Archie One that he is,there's the Archie 3000, there's

(45:16):
the Hollywood Archie, which islike the Riverdale Archie,
there's little Archie, newlittle Archie, the new Archies,
Archie babies.
Oh, that's right.
They have to figure out the bestway to take out Mad Doctor Doom,
little Archie's nemesis, becausehe's joined up with Evil Heart,
Pureheart's nemesis.

(45:36):
And obviously, like they can'tfigure out exactly what to do,
so Pureheart tries to take himout, doesn't quite work, so then
they get Pure Heart Archie 3000,who's Pureheart Archie with this
sweet mullet.

SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
Oh man, Captain Planet style.

SPEAKER_01 (45:53):
Oh, yeah, very much so.
And he has to go save the day,and of course, all the different
Betty's and Veronicas from thedifferent universes then collide
with him to try and and thankhim for saving the day.
Wink.
Yeah, then there's a into theRiverdale Triangle where they
meet dinosaurs and a whole bunchof it's like Librea.

SPEAKER_02 (46:17):
Okay, whatever.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (46:19):
One of the things about Archie that's so endearing
and enduring is they are tropesin and of themselves.
That you can take the veryessence of these detailed,
wide-ranging characters, and youcan put them in a variety of
different scenarios, whetherthat is something silly, whether

(46:41):
it's something thoughtful,something more childish,
something more adult.
They're all characters that wefundamentally recognize.
They're all well explained andthoroughly extrapolated, and
they just work in whateverscenario you generally put them
in, which I think is one reasonwhy they have been able to
expand their presence in comics,you know, touching on different

(47:05):
genres, interacting withdifferent groups and popular
icons, both of pop culture, ofthe real world, and in comics,
and how they've been able to beexposed to different audiences
in a completely different set offormats that really allow them
to be out there and sustain fordecades on end.

SPEAKER_02 (47:27):
I think that's really fascinating too, because
I wonder if that, in yearshence, that will be Archie's
real legacy, because it took along time to get to this point.
And now I wonder if in futuregenerations if the legacy
looking back on it is that theyare universal tropes able to be
applied to different, like yousaid, different scenarios and
different, you know, stories andand genres.

(47:50):
I mean, ironically, they startedout as this fantasy about a very
specific period in time inAmerica that never really
existed.
That's fascinating.
And I wonder if that willeventually become its its in
enduring legacy.
Well, I mean, we've already seenit starting to happen, and and I
mean hopefully it will in thefuture.
To your point, there have been alot of Archie comics, a lot of
Archie imprints, a lot of Archiespin-offs, and uh obviously the

(48:13):
comics are the backbone of youknow the brand, but you would
not believe how much is going onin multimedia with Archie.
Some of which is hilariouslybad, some of which is
surprisingly good, some of whichyou wouldn't know that was
Archie at all.
But even before this rebrand,there was a long history of
Archie and multimedia to mixedresults.

(48:36):
Let's go with live-action TV.
You had several pilots forArchie TV shows that never went
to series.
Most notably Archie in 1964 onNBC, and then Archie again in
1978 on ABC.
Then you had Sabrina the TeenageWitch, obviously, which we
touched on from 96 to 2003.
Interestingly enough, and thisis this one I really appreciate.
Akemi Kadi, the Turkishinterpretation of Sabrina the

(48:59):
Teenage Witch on Turkish Star TVfrom 2005 to 2007, in 58
episodes in two seasons.
Wow.
Alright.
Of course, you had uh Riverdalefrom 2017 to 2023, and The
Chilling Adventures of Sabrinaon Netflix, which we're all
familiar with, and then peopleforget about Katie Keane, which
was also done by Berlante andWarner Brothers on the CW in

(49:20):
2020, one season for 13episodes.
Now that's just television.
Live action film, on the otherhand, you had, let's see, going
back to 1969, Archie and his newpals.
And then you had in 1978 theArchie Situation Comedy Musical
Variety Show.
Okay.
Yeah, it is a 48-minute varietyshow, which just says that it's

(49:44):
set in the mythical town ofRiverdale and follows the
misadventures of Archie and hisgang.
There was a pilot of Archie from1976 that didn't get picked up,
and this is a rehashing of thatas a musical.
A bold choice, and then therewas a kind of a gap, and then
you had Archie to Riverdale andBack Again in 1990.

(50:07):
An Archie tale.
Yeah.
This one is a live-action madefor TV movie by DIC or DEEK, if
anybody remembers that.
It premiered on NBC Sunday nightat the movies on May 6th, 1990.
It was shown, for some reason,in the UK as weekend reunion.
I guess because they didn't haveany context for Archie.

(50:28):
I guess.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
The idea was that it was a afollow-up to like what Archie
would be like now if theoriginal Archie comics were in
real life.
Like, like where would they be alittle while after he graduated
high school and all that?
This one had basically theArchie crew in their 30s.
Betty was a grade schoolteacher, Veronica was living in

(50:49):
France and had been married anddivorced four times.
Jughead was a psychiatrist witha son that he has sole custody
of.
Moose and Midge were marriedchiropractors.
Okay.
Right.
Reggie owns a gym.
And also a used car lot.
Those are two different scams.

(51:10):
That's interesting.
That fits.
It kind of does.
I believe this was supposed tobe a pilot.
I mean, it just ended up being aone-off made-for-TV movie.
Archie was played by ChristopherRich Wilson.
He did a lot of stuff,including, oh, something we
should definitely talk about atsome point.
The sitcom The Charmings,starring Snow White and Prince

(51:32):
Charming in a modern suburbansitcom, and we've talked about
it before.
He was, of course, PrinceCharming.
Eric Charming.
And he also appeared in thingslike Murphy Brown, The Reba TV
show, which he was a regular on,and Boston Legal.
Reba.
Yeah, well.
He also did shows like StrapYourselves in Boys, Renegade.

(51:55):
Everybody did that shit.
Not enough to be renegade, I'lltell you that.
So that was that one, I believeit was supposed to be a backdoor
pilot, but it ended up justbeing a major TV movie.
It's weird that he played suchodd archetypal characters, but
then was never really all thatsuccessful.
But whatever.
And then in 96 you had Sabrinathe Teenage Witch, obviously.
Then a spin-off movie from theTV show, Sabrina Goes to Rome,

(52:17):
and then again another one,Sabrina Down Under.
Jesus.
Which is like way late forAmerica's obsession with
Australia, by the way.
Like 15 years too late for that.
And then you had animated moviesstarting in 1969 with Archina's
New Pals.
One that related to that calledThe Archies in Jugman, which is
part of Archie's WeirdMysteries.

(52:38):
And Sabrina Friends Forever,which is part of the Sabrina,
the animated series.
It was like a made-for-TV moviefor that.
And then Stan Lee had a coupleof ones that were published,
like the adaptations of his werepublished by Archie Comics, one
of which stars ArnoldSchwarzenegger.
So I didn't really includethose, but it is weird that that
happened.
And then let's see, you alsodon't forget about um Josie and

(53:00):
the Pussycats.
Oh, how could I?
Which is actually a pretty goodmovie in its own right.

SPEAKER_01 (53:07):
There's been like a a re not reinterpretation, but
uh rediscovery.
Yes.
Especially with the youngergenerations, but I I didn't
expect people love it.

SPEAKER_02 (53:18):
They do.
There was also a made for TVlive action one just called
Archie in 1964.
Didn't go anywhere.
Some of the pilots of some ofthe animated series were
considered movies, but they'renot really.
We shan't forget the Archies in2023, a Bollywood production,
set in 1960s India, where Archieand the gang navigate romance

(53:40):
friendship and the future ofRiverdale as developers threaten
to destroy a beloved park.
So it's essentially breaking,but Bollywood and about Archie.
Love it.
I'm down, let's do it.
Why not?
What a weird format to pick forthat.
But then of course you had butthe animated ones are just it's
a numerous.
It's like The Archie Show, theArchie Comedy Hour, Archie's

(54:01):
Funhouse, Josie and thePussycats, Groovy Ghoulies,
which featured Sabrina, Archie'sTV Funny, Sabrina the Teenage
Witch Show, Josie and thePussycats in Outer Space.
The US of Archie, which came outaround the time of the
Bicentennial, The New Archie andSabrina Hour, that's done by
Filmation.
The new Archie's in 1987, whichonly ran 13 episodes, but was on

(54:24):
NBC.
Sabrina the Animated Series,which was produced by DIC or
DEEK, and showed first on UPNand then subsequently on ABC.
Sabrina's Secret Life from 2003to 2004, which was just
syndicated.
Sabrina's Secrets of a TeenageWitch, 26 episodes from 2013 to

(54:47):
2014, on the Hub Network.
Wow, like most of these don'teven exist anymore.
And then, like I said, SuperheroKindergarten, which is the
Stanley written and producedstarring Arnold Schwarzenegger,
that is only Archie relatedbecause the comic book
adaptation was published byArchie.
This was on the Cartoon Channel,and that's Cartoon with a K in
2021.
I have no idea what that is.

(55:08):
Don't I've never heard of that.
I don't know what that is, andit obviously didn't last very
long.
But they also had a differentone called Stan Lee's Mighty
Seven, which was another of thesame thing.
I I'm very confused by all ofthat.
But uh the most successful ofwhich of all of these was if you
don't count Riverdale, was Joseof the Pussycats, which grossed
domestically$14,271,005.

(55:32):
Foreign, that's about$600,000.
So about$15 million worldwide.
This is the one that surprisedme.
Worldwide did$15 million.
The budget was$57 million.
I'm shocked by all of thosenumbers and for different
reasons.
It's really bizarre.

(55:54):
You know, at the time Archie didkind of have that stigma around
it for being kind of cheesy andout of date or whatever, but I
remember watching that movie andbeing like, oh, this isn't bad.
I I thought it was gonna belame, or no, it has some good
themes.
It talks about celebrity andHollywood culture and or just
like fame in general, but it wasa huge bomb, which is probably
why you never saw any sequels.
Even though it is, I think,pretty well regarded today.

(56:16):
Unfortunately, I think what it'sthe Rotten Tomato score is like
53%, which is not great.
Metacritic score is 47%.
Not great, but there are worsethings.
Cinema score is B.
That's pretty good.
So it has endured.
Weirdly, its successes weren'teven all that successful, but
it's still there.
It still exists.
People remember a lot of thisstuff fondly.

(56:38):
Now, Josie and the Pussycats,the movie, is nostalgic for
millennials.
And just being discovered now byGen Z.
That was a grab at nostalgiathat happened in the late 90s
and early 2000s for the boomers.
So, like the fact that now thatis nostalgic is mind-blowing.
But it's you know the enduringappeal somehow of Archie and his

(56:59):
pals.

SPEAKER_01 (57:00):
Yeah.
This speaks to Archie's enduringlegacy because Archie is like
this wonderful snapshot ofAmericana viewed from the
perspective of the teenageexperience, and that's something
that was revolutionary when itcame out, but over like, you
know, it's 85 years, a lot'schanged.
And Archie has been able to stayabreast of those changes, market

(57:25):
itself with dips, obviously,from time to time.
I mean, no one's gonna be smoothsailing for you know almost a
hundred years, but they've beenable to, you know, appeal to a
broad audience by creatingsomething that is kind of geared
towards a younger, childlikeaudiences, but with enough
subtle humor and savvy for thepopular culture that also

(57:47):
engages adult readers andviewers, able to target
everyone.
And by doing this, they havebeen able to speak on a number
of issues throughout the time,whether that's that's bullying,
gender equality, LGBTQ, cultureacceptance, politics, war, gun
violence, violence, you know,obviously that the Christianity

(58:10):
stuff of the 70s, which we had along discussion about.
But they've also like it'sinteresting that it showed both
sides.
Yeah.
Uh, and they they've been ableto show the sides that a lot of
other books, especially of thetime, you know, and a lot of
books that are much morepopular, just haven't been able
to do.
I mean, they incorporateAfrican-American characters,
Asian characters, Latinocharacters, Indian characters.

(58:31):
There is something in someonefor everyone.
And while doing all of this,they've been able to stay
abreast of what is interestingand new, but not be beholden to
it.
They haven't tried to competewith Marvel and DC.
They haven't tried to be the newimage or dark horse or anything.
They're happy doing what they doand being who they are,

(58:54):
regardless of the trends thathave been established by others
in the same market.
No idea is too big, no idea toowild.
They tell whatever stories theywant to, and they work a lot of
times because they have thesecharacters and these
storytelling tropes that havebecome icons in and of
themselves, and they can utilizethat to do with and play with in

(59:18):
whatever way they see fit.

SPEAKER_02 (59:20):
Would they have been able to do so without that
backbone of constant readershipthat was due to Sonic?
I don't know.
Either way, at least they wereable to do so.
They always find a way to keepthemselves going, whether it's
through digest form, whetherit's through digital presence
when that wasn't even a thing,whether it was through IP

(59:41):
licensing that sort of keepsthem afloat during thin times,
or reinventing themselves.
They've always figured out a wayto make it work and somehow
still relevant.

SPEAKER_01 (59:51):
As Victor Gorlich puts it in an interview, why I
think Archie is so enduring andendearing is simple.
Archie is about the importanceof home, family, and friendship.
The town of Riverdale, whereArchie and his friends live, is
a nice, safe place to gowhenever you need some cheering
up.
The characters are warm andfriendly and care about each
other.
They live in a world that usedto be, might be, or is the way

(01:00:13):
we would like it to be.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:15):
But never was.
It's important to remember that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:18):
Unfortunately, America wasn't like that then.
It's not going to be like that.
But Archie is an ideal, which Ithink kind of sets it apart and
lets it rise above and sustainover these 85 plus years.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:31):
That's true.
And it doesn't seem to beslowing down anytime soon.
In fact, it's found its mostsuccess, I think, in the last
few years.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:38):
Archie's never been my thing.
Honestly, I've read the mostArchie I've ever read over the
past three weeks.
Surprisingly, I've enjoyed mostof what I read.
Yeah.
Weird, isn't it?
I'm I'm excited to see whatArchie does in the in the in the
future.
And I'm I'm happy that it's beena sustained.
Uh, I would be remiss if Ididn't mention, before we
finally wrap this up, myfavorite Archie adjacent story.

(01:01:03):
And that would be an EdBrewbaker and Sean Phillips
criminal series last of theinnocent.
If you guys don't know, Criminalis a noir pulp crime series,
pound for pound, one of thegreatest comics ever, regardless
of genre.
But if you're into crime booksand neon noir stuff, it is like
the pinnacle.

(01:01:24):
And The Last of the Innocent, hedoes his dark take on the Archie
characters.
They're all kind of representedin the story in adult versions
where their lives have have goneastray and crime becomes central
to what's happened.
I don't want to spoil any of it.
I'd love for you all to go onread it because it's that good
of a story.

(01:01:45):
But it was always been like myfavorite fun interpretation of
those archie characters,especially as someone who's not
married to Archie as aninstitution necessarily.
It's just a great story and it'sa fun, dark take on Archie.
I'm gonna have to read thatactually.
Oh, yeah.
If you've never read it, it'sgreat.
A real, a real very far awayfrom what Goldwater probably

(01:02:07):
intended.
But it's not an official Archiestory either.
Taking these tropes, theseiconic versions of these
characters, doing his ownversion.
It's great stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:17):
It's like Tarantino's Archie.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:19):
Yeah, well, I'm interested.
Well worth it.
And we hope you've all beeninterested in this journey
through Archie.
It's it's something when Skippitched it.
I was very much I don't knowabout that.
Hesitant.
A little behind the word of thebathrobe here when we do this
podcast.
Sometimes either one of us willpitch an idea for an episode,

(01:02:39):
and the other one's a littlehesitant, a little unsure
whether they're not as into theidea, not as into the subject
matter, maybe as unsure whetherwe can reasonably tell the story
that needs to be told to itsbest ability and deliver it in a
way that's both engaging,entertaining, and fruitful

(01:02:59):
enough.
That's how I felt when we gotinto Archie, something I wasn't
really sure about.
But through us researching this,through me reading some, through
our discussions, I found Archieand Archie's life to be quite
fascinating.
And I'm glad that he suggestedit.
And I hope it has beenfulfilling for you guys and
you've enjoyed it as much aswe'd enjoy sharing it with you.

(01:03:23):
Uh most of the pods we do havesomething to say.
That's true.
Because we have something tosay.
Sometimes, sometimes they'rebetter than others.
We've had, I think, some realwinners over the years,
especially in ones I didn'tthink that would come off at
all.
Well, thanks for at least tuningin.
We're happy that you hung outwith us, hung out with Archie.
If you did enjoy it, if youwouldn't mind liking, sharing,

(01:03:43):
subscribing.
If you know an Archie fan outthere who you can give this to,
and they can get angry that wedidn't cover XYZ or breeze
through too much or stayed onSonic too long, or whatever it
might be, if they want to reachout to us, hey, all engagement's
good engagement, so we don'tmind that.
If you wouldn't mind rating usthree Jughead Time Police stars

(01:04:04):
on the favorite podcast app ofyour choice, ideally Apple
Podcasts, it's the best way forus to get heard and thus seen,
and we can spread out and havemore time and ability to cover
more interesting subject matterlike this.
But again, we just want to say,hey, thanks for listening.
Hope you enjoyed it as much aswe have.
But until you have to put yourlife on the line and decide

(01:04:25):
Betty or Veronica, or maybe evenCheryl, Skip.
Or Kevin.
Or Kevin.
Um, or Chughead.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:32):
You know, are you a burger sexual like he is?
So do you have to sacrifice yourlife for Kevin's existence?
These are important questions.
I think it's important also toremember it's five stars, not
three.
That's shooting a little low, Ithink, for our for the
algorithms, but you know.
Did I say three?

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:48):
Yeah, you did say three.
I did?
That's weird.
Hmm.
We're shooting low today.
Here, uh, if I say that, couldyou just like go and post and
say five?
Like one of those um wheneverthey have you know an R-rated
film, they have to PG it up.
Mother Father.
This is what happens when youfind a stranger in the Alps.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:08):
You feed a stranger scrambled eggs.
Well, I mean, other than uh theadditional two stars, but make
sure that you have cleaned upyourselves to some sort of
reasonable degree.
Make sure you've paid your tabs,paid your weight staff, your
bartenders to cages, yourpodcasters, and supported your
local comic shops and retailersfrom Dispatch Ajax.
We would both like to sayGodspeed, fair wizards.
Man, Archie doesn't have a likea saying.

(01:05:30):
Oh, Archie.
I know that's from L and thefamily, but that's all I can
think of.
It's a completely differentArchie.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:36):
Please go away.