Beauty and the Beast

Let's turn back the clock and dive into CBS's forgotten fantasy romance Beauty and the Beast, where a lion-man from beneath NYC forms an empathic bond with an assistant district attorney.

It's a tale as old as time.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Indiana Jones.
Tell a different story, Make upa new character.
Give me more mutt.
It's all I've been saying.
Give me more mutt.
Gentlemen, let's broaden ourminds.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Are they in the proper approach pattern for
today?
Negative All weapons.
Now Charge the lightning field.
Uh yeah, okay, so welcome backto Dispatch.

(00:39):
Ajax, I'm Skip, I'm Jake.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, we're doing our thing.
Yes, our thing.
It's called podding.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Not successfully, but doing it.
We're poddy trainingWell-crafted.
Nope, not well-crafted.
In fact, we might just startover.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
I think that might not be a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I am the editor here.
I am the godlike editor here.
I will decide what is it whatis not.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Oh yeah, Welcome back to Dispatch Ajax, I am Jake.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
I'm Skip.
Yeah, he's Skip.
We're doing that again.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Well maybe we'll just do it throughout the episode
when we thought we've done.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Break in like we have to do like station IDs.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh it's half an hour Geez, I fucked it up.
Let's start over All right IDs.
Oh, it's half an hour Jeez, Ifucked it up.
Let's start over.
Alright, you are listening toWKR 96 in Seattle.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's weird that they have both K and W and then a
number Is that not normal.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I'm not from your world.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
You're a drug dealer from another planet.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I'm just a caveman.
Unthought, I don't know aboutyour internet podding ways.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Bang, here's your pod .

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Hey, don't go stealing my pod, blammo sucker,
don't go breaking my heart.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
He immediately murders Kiki D.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, somebody had to .

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Who else is going to?
It's got to be the ghost ofCharles Bronson Skip.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes, one of the greatest stories of Western
culture is the tale of La Belleet la Bête, or the Beauty and
the Beast.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I thought you were going to say the Hangover.
The Hangover 3 is a.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's the third best one, which is actually the
number one, one of all ones inWondom.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I have no idea where that's going, but kudos
for you for-.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
So the Beauty and the Beast was originally attributed
to French I just got a push onTo French novelist
Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbeau deVilleneuve.
Wow, having been published in1740 in La Jeune Americaine et
la Comte Marine, or the YoungAmerican and the Marine.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Tales.
And if you can't tell, jaketook Italian, I did actually, I
know, I know I took French, andso yes, I took French in high
school.
Yeah, yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
And Spanish in grade school.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
I never took Spanish at any point.
I think it's part of aninstitutional racism problem.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
honestly, Well, I mean, that does fit with your
whole ethos.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
so my gestalt, as it were.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yes, yes, that's why you have racist tattooed across
your chest.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
So it says racist for life on my stomach, tattooed
across your chest.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
It says racist for life on my stomach.
R for L.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Live it.
Yeah, I don't want to go downthat rabbit hole.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
So Beauty and the Beast has gone on to be retold,
remade and remodeled forcenturies afterward, Truly one
of the most enduring stories inall of Western culture.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
So it had to be bastardized by Disney.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Well, I mean so one of the most.
So it's captured theimaginations on screen with the
1946 French classic from JeanCocteau, from Jean Cocteau and
probably for our and latergenerations, but immortalized in
the animated form by the 1991Disney classic, as Skip might

(04:30):
wink at that.
Classic in quotes yeah, I reada whole lot of versions of the
story when I was researchingthis, and it's not that far off
from many of the tales, althoughsome are wildly variable.
True, but this tale is old astime.
It had a well-received butalmost forgotten small screen
gem of an appearance back in1987.

(04:52):
In this version, sarah Connormeets Hellboy and they go to the
hollow earth and fight madgangsters, with magic and
melodrama mixed in the end Greatepisode.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Don't forget to like and subscribe.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Today we shall talk about the cult classic, the CBS
fantasy primetime soap adjacentBeauty and the Beast.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Wow, that's really hard to look up on your Apple TV
or whatever CBS pseudo-fantasyadjacent.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, think of it.
If any of you want to seeDisputing the Beast, it's
nowhere to be found except forYouTube.
Yeah, or I think you can watchlike three episodes total on
Prime, but that's it, oh yeah.
I'm not surprised.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
There, weird I'm surprised it's not like just
readily available on Tubi.
That just seems like theperfect Tubi show.
Yeah, it's weird.
I'm surprised it's not likejust readily available on Tubi.
That just seems like theperfect Tubi show.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, it's just it's nowhere, it's oddly vacant,
which is kind of makes me thinkthat the reason to do this
episode is that it is thisalmost forgotten little diamond
in the rough.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Even just doing a cursory surface level Google
search for it.
The remake of the show is thething that pops up.
Yeah, 90% of the time.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
So yeah, it is kind of forgotten, and if you just
type Beauty and the Beastadaptation, so much else comes
up before this.
Oh yeah, so this was created byRon Koslow and written many of
the episodes by George R Martin.
If you have ever heard of thatguy, or if you're waiting

(06:31):
patiently for his next book,that will never happen.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
What's he doing now?
Has he done anything recently?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
He's doing nothing is what he's doing.
He's reaping the rewards.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
I did share an airplane flight with him and saw
him in the new mexico and then,uh, san diego airports and, uh,
he seemed to be working on ascript then, but that was about
10 years ago or 12, 15 years ago, so the most famous author I've
flown with would have been NeilGaiman.

(07:07):
I was wow.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I was flying from Minneapolis to San Diego.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
That's interesting Actually who was he molesting in
Minneapolis, do you think?

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Oh, whoever we could find.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, he did one of those like
classic.
I'm pretending to be asleep soyou don't sit next to me.
Moves who?
George rr martin.
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad I didn'tdo that, but I I can imagine for
for you.
If that were the case with neilgaiman, you, I'm glad you
avoided that in-flightmolestation that might have

(07:41):
occurred.
I doubt george rr Martin wouldhave diddled my bits.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Is that a tower in those pants, or are you just
happy to see me?
So, alongside George RR Martin,you had Howard Gordon and Alex
Gonza.
These are the minds behind bothHomeland and 24.
Classics, they also wrote someepisodes of the X-Files as well.

(08:19):
Oh, classics, this is LyndallHamilton, who was an assistant
district attorney.
Well, she becomes an assistantdistrict attorney from what we
call the world above, which isthe world we live in.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yes, we all call it that yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
We all say that.
And then there's the beastknown as Vincent Wells.
This is played by Ron Perlman.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Fucking awesome.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yes, who's this kind and noble lion man monstrosity
who lives in the world belowwhich?
First it starts as almostsewer-esque catacombs where the
Ninja Turtles might be, but asthe show goes on, you see,
deeper in, it's like anunderground world, like the

(09:03):
hollow earth that is underneathnew york it to tie it back
around it.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
It's deal game.
It's never where yeah, yeah, ina lot of ways man, if we could
do that crossover between beautyand the beast, the series and
the hb ninja turtles, which werebasically concurrent, I would
fucking die.
He doesn't like pizza, as itturns out.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I have a soliloquy about anchovies that I'd like to
tell you.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
He goes on and on about the Rat King.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
So just to break down how this starts, because I did
watch multiple episodes, becauseI saw the show as a kid, I was
aware of it, but it only lastedthree seasons, even though it
did really well, at least for awhile.
But it's kind of been forgottenand so I needed to kind of
refresh my memory of the show.
So I watched the first coupleseasons, then another later

(09:55):
episode, and then the end of thefirst season and then some into
the second season, the end ofthe second season and the
beginning of the second seasonand the beginning of the third
season.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
so when I discovered the show, I remember it was
because my grandparents owned acabin at the lake of the ozarks
that we would go to every summera kind of privilege that my
family no longer enjoys and weonly got one broadcast channel
and it was a cbs channel, and sowe were able to watch Beauty
and the Beast.
Literally, you couldn't getsignal for anything else.

(10:27):
How odd Zad, or VHS tapes ofold Looney Tunes cartoons or
Three Stooges movies, over and,over, and over again.
So that's how I remember seeingit for the first time.
But it was always not only atreat but a sweeping romance,
like a live action romance novel.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I mean we'll get to the enduring qualities of this
show and why it still has afandom to this day that even put
on annual festivals and cosplaythings.
So just to set the scene, inthe first episode you have
Catherine, played again byLyndall Hamilton.
She is the daughter of a topcorporate lawyer in Manhattan

(11:09):
and she's dating one of the badguys from Robocop.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Oh, now I'm interested.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, I don't know if you.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
It's not Kirkwood Smith, obviously, but no, it's
Ray Wise.
You had to dig down for RayWise, I don't know One of the
greatest B-movie characteractors of all time.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Well, there's a lot of fun actors in this show.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Which is one of the coolest parts about it.
Yeah, there's lots of coolstuff.
Ray fucking Wise man Awesome,she's dating Ray Wise.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
He's kind of a little uptight, you know.
He's like, hey, your friend ishaving a bad time.
She's bumming us out at thisupscale cocktail party.
Don't talk to her.
And she's like, hey, you're adick.
And she's like, hey, you know,it's what you like about me,
baby he played a lot of thosecharacters in that era strangely
like.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Like for a guy that looks like Ray Wise and is Ray
Wise like?

Speaker 1 (12:06):
really Ray Wise Just getting typecast, kind of slimy,
yuppie, scummy guy.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, but I just don't see it from him, and maybe
that's just us looking backwardat all of his other roles,
including Laura Palmer's dadRight, which was around this
time he kind of sticks out likea sore thumb, even in RoboCop.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
I think of the time we could go on about that, but
yeah, I mean.
Didn't seem out of place to me.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
He is one of the great character actors of all
time.
So that's he and Kurtwood Smith.
Both are just fucking alwaysknocking it out of the park.
So, yeah, sure, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, he's a bit of a more of a side character in the
series and he drops off prettyquickly in the scope of the show
.
But she leaves this party andshe's going to walk to go get a
taxi and all of a sudden she iskidnapped by these guys, thrown
in a van and it is unclearwhether she is sexually
assaulted or not, oof.

(13:04):
But she is beaten and she'slike called the wrong name and
this guy like the switchblades,like hey, you're never going to
talk bad about us again, neverbe pretty.
And he cuts her face up Likereal, like jigsaw.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Jesus Christ and then throw her out.
The van.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Can you fly, bobby?
She most certainly cannot fly.
Throw her out the van.
Can you fly, bobby?
She most certainly cannot fly.
So she lands.
And then you see that she hasbeen found and taken to this
underground, which you find outis an underground lair full of
old books and tapestries andknickknacks and statues, and
that someone is caring for her.

(13:42):
Her face is all wrapped up andshe can't see anything.
She's down there for weeks atleast, and we see that there is
someone caring for her, readingliterature to her and nursing
her long.
Finally she gets the strengthup and she tears off the bandage
and she see who is caring forher, and it is is a I don't know

(14:04):
, maybe six foot two lion man.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, that's weird.
Also, isn't that an interestinginversion In stories like this?
You would think, especially inthe modern era, you would think
that the person bandaged wouldbe the oddly looking one, the
beast.
Yes, who would be the beast?

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, which is how you think that maybe this is
going to play out, which wouldbe interesting.
You see that, like she's allscarred up, her face is just
covered in deep lacerations.
I don't want to say she looksfreakish, but she's horribly
mutilated.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
From this point on, let me just put a bookmark here.
You said from this porn onwhich I I that's how you heard
it.
Please expand on that.
Uh, no freud's ears, uh methanks.
Here's what they want to hearfrom your lips to freud's ears.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
But yeah, that's kind of how it sets up.
Maybe she recoils in horror atthe sight of this guy at first,
but then right away she's like,oh no, there's something inside
of him.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
He was kind to me and I I shouldn't lash out just
like knight rider, where michaelknight is horrifically
mutilated in a car accident andthen they give him a new face
and then now he's just or RemoWilliams, if that helps you.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
I mean, I don't remember either of them being
horribly mutilated.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
But that's the premise of both of those is that
they were horribly mutilated inlike accidents and then are
given new faces and identities.
Oh OK, I know it's weird tothink because they never in
night rider they never addressit again.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah I mean similar in this.
I didn't remember her beinghorribly mutilated at the
beginning of this series.
She's just linda hamilton,right?
So the way they get to that isthat she's like who are you?
He's like I'm, I'm vincent, youknow, I've, I've cared for you.
And then she sees a little bit.
There's this underground worldthat he is a part of, cast off

(15:49):
from society.
They live underground of thecity.
There are people that help themout and that, the same way,
like he's providing help to her,the Morlocks I mean, yeah, in a
lot of ways he and his father,who's just known as Father to
everybody underground in theseries.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Played by Marlon Brando in Gauze, played by Roy
DeTriese actually.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Oh interesting, he and Ron Perlman are the only
people that are in every singleepisode of the show.
Oh wow, not even Linda.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Hamilton.
We will get to that.
I can guess why.
Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Huh, we could play a game.
Why do you think she wasn't inthe series?
I'm assuming you don't know so.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Actually I don't.
I intentionally didn't look itup.
I assume filming Terminator 2.
Wrong, but not a bad guess,Okay.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
So she sees this world and then he's like but you
must go back to the surfaceworld where you belong.
And she's like, thank you.
And she's brought up to thesurface world where people have
been like, hey, where is she at?
They've been looking for herfor weeks.
I mean, they seem worried, butnot as worried as you should be.
She is found, they kind ofimmediately bring her to surgery

(17:03):
and she has, like a miracle,plastic surgery done to her face
which makes her look exactly asshe was before, just as
beautiful, except that she has asmall scar on the side of her
face, right below where her earis, that she just hides with
hair for the rest of the serieslike she was in a face-off type
scenario.

(17:24):
Yeah, how could they possibly dothis?
It's almost like to the pointof why you could have done other
things.
She was partially blinded orstabbed in the gut, and he had
nursed her to health for a bituntil she regained her gumption
and her eyesight, without havingthis weird scarring of the face
and then taking it away withinlike the first I don't know 20

(17:47):
minutes of the show.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's like extremely intricate for trying to take a
twist on that show unnecessarilyso yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
It seems bizarre Drops out of being a corporate
lawyer and becomes a districtattorney for the city of New
York and helping fight the goodfight which sets up the law and
order-esque crime mystery of theweek that follows throughout at
least the first season.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Essentially, what you're saying is that it's the
show TNT with Mr T.
I have no idea what TNT is.
We have talked about thismultiple times on this show.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
We have not talked about it on this show.
Just because you believesomething does not mean it's
true.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
You with the greatest memory in the world.
It's true, I don't have thegreatest memory, but I do not
know.
Tnt and I've never heard ofthis.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
We haven't talked about this, Skip.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
It was a crime procedural show with MrT who
teams up with a districtattorney and then whatever,
whatever criminal or whatevergets off on some technicality.
Then mr t takes it on himselfto mete out justice.
I know for a fact this is inone of our episodes where he
basically like just tears thesleeves off his suit and then

(18:57):
goes out and kicks somebody'sass and then solves all the
crime I don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
I'm looking it up.
It went from 88 to 91, so aboutthe same time period, started a
little after Exactly, but thisis the first time I've ever
heard of this.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
This is so in the zeitgeist, this concept of
following through the legalcracks and all that kind of
stuff.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
So she then uses her resources to try and figure out
who it was who attacked her.
She finds that it was this pimpcharacter who had hired these
goons to try and find a girl whowas gonna expose them and had
beat her up previously.
She has like this bond with her.

(19:38):
Tries to get her to testify.
She does end up saying that shewill testify.
She takes her to this friend ofhers house to stay off the grid
until the trial can start.
But people within the DA'soffice get word out to this guy.
He gets those same goons tokill her and then try to kill

(20:01):
Linda Hamilton's character,Catherine.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Not too different from the plot of Blind Fury.
We're talking the Rucker.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Hauer vehicle.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yes, I watched it yesterday actually.
I think that's why it's freshin your mind.
Well, yeah, it's true.
Yes, I have all sorts ofquestions on how sharp that
fucking sword is and how he cancut through anything Like it's
adamantium.
You can just do that.
It is that's how you explain itDone.
They're all looking for TerryO'Quinn and then whomever I
think it's Tex Cobb, actually hehas the cops in the back and

(20:31):
then they go to the woman'shouse the woman who played
Evelyn and was in.
They Live and they'repretending to be legitimate cops
, looking for him and then theymurder her and that's how you
get the whole Rutger Hauer storyarc kicking off there.
It's really not that dissimilarif you think about it, but
don't think about it.
No.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I'll try not to.
I'll do my best.
So at this point her life is indanger.
As she is trying to escapethese goons, she uses some of
the skills that she has acquiredbecause as she became DA, she
also was like, terrified to bealone and didn't feel safe.
So she found a self-defenseinstructor who was teaching her

(21:15):
to fight dirty and take onanybody anywhere.
The first episode is played byone actor, but in the subsequent
appearances, before he'sdropped off the show,
unfortunately, delroy Lindoplays this character.
Oh wow, cool.
Yeah, totally cool.
But the character is completelydropped, sadly.
Oh wow, prematurely.
So she's trying to fight thisguy's off.

(21:35):
She succumbs and is about to bemurdered when Vincent breaks
through the walls down in thebasement and then comes and
murders these guys with his lionferocity.
That's all you need.
This is where we find that theyhave some empathic bond.
He has bonded to her spirituallyand emotionally, and later on

(21:59):
in the series it flows the otherdirection as well.
But throughout the series hecan sense her emotions and
whenever she's in danger he canfind where she's at and remedy
the situation.
So she constantly finds herselfin danger throughout the series
and this is how he, like, findsher and saves the day.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
So could Twilight be more?

Speaker 1 (22:20):
derivative Probably, but it'd be hard to do.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Every time you look into something else it's like oh
, twilight stole from that.
Oh, yep, that's just whatTwilight did.
Oh, that's a shame, but Mormon.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
But more man than beast, more man than human.
So, and that sets the scene ofhow the show flows after that.
As they have a will-they't,they for most of the series, at
least up until the end of thesecond season.
But we'll get to that.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's a lot like moonlighting, isn't it?
Moonlighting does come up.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
We'll get to a bit of that.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Funny thing is, I was literally quoting from Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles, the moviewhich is also concurrent to this
.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Oh, right With Casey Jones and April O'Neil.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, this will they, won't they drama?

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, the Sam Malone.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, the tailspin, as it were.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Instead of cheers, we just substitute tailspin.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know the romantic drama of tailspin which
actually came out around thistime the early 90s oh man tnt.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Tailspin were both and well, so how does tommy
westfall fit into this?

Speaker 1 (23:38):
yeah, and 1990 yeah, so, uh, cmnc was also all at the
same time while the show was on.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Wow.
So Tommy Westfall is staringinto his snow globe.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
It would have been like coming off the end of the
show.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
But still, but still.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Indeed.
So originally Ron Perlmandidn't want to have anything to
do with this show.
He wasn't interested in any way.
He had done some work withstuff on his face and he didn't
want to have anything to do withthat again.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Oh, poor Ron Perlman, if you only knew, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
So Perlman's big break was in Quest for Fire,
where he had gotten a lot ofclaim for his performance, and
that involved him with somemakeup work to look like a
Neanderthal.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
He kind of screams Neanderthal as it is.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
He had also worked in the Name of the Rose, which
also required heavy applicationof makeup.
But at this point in his careerhe was a bit despondent and he
didn't want to have any moremakeup work and was kind of
thinking about not being inacting anymore.
But thankfully the guy whoworked on Michael Jackson's

(24:49):
Thriller came to the rescue RickBaker, who worked on Thriller
and American Werewolf in London.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Didn't he also do, star?

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Wars, he went on to become one of the most famous
special effects makeup artistsof all time.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Second to like Stan Winston.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
If there's a Mount Rushmore of makeup effects, Rick
Baker's 100% on there.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Oh yeah, it's like him and Stan Winston, the dude
that did all the Star Trek stuffand Planet of the Apes and
worked for the CIA.
That would be at least three ofthe four right there.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
But he had lobbied for Perlman because he had seen
him act before under makeup andhe knew that he could do really
good.
And so, even though Ron Perlmandidn't want to read the script
and it was thankfully, his agentwho kept like pushing it on him
left it on his doorstep.
When he did read it he kind offell in love with it and because

(25:42):
of Baker's persistence andpushing for him, he got cast to
play this role and it reallychanged his career completely.
This became one of his favoritecharacters that he ever played
in his career.
With the success of the show itshowed him that he did have a
career and he could be a viableactor for the rest of his days

(26:02):
and went on to give him success.
Now, unfortunately, Ron Perlmanhad to sit in the in the makeup
chair four hours every day forthis, so filming usually went on
for 10 hours.
That meant his day was 15 hourslong.
That last hour obviously neededto take off all the makeup and
prosthetics for his face andbody.
But, odd fact, Ron Perlman isallergic to almost every type of

(26:25):
prosthetic glue on the market.
Jesus, Fortunately they foundan alternative, but apparently
it was terrible for theenvironment and was discontinued
at the time, but they didmanage to make it work.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh, okay, that explains a lot about John
Rhys-Davies.
Then he has the same conditionand when he was in lord of the
rings, most of the time his eyesare swelled shut and they have
to like cut away.
So you don't see the fact thathe's having a horrible allergic
reaction to all of theprosthetics, though it could
have been the muslims that wereon set, that maybe he was
allergic to it was just theimmigrants in general.

(26:56):
Yeah, yeah, in new zealand,well, he felt them.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
It was a tremor in the force.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
It was a great disturbance.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yes, so obviously like Linda Hamilton, your front
facing star, and you had RonPerlman as the poetry sighting,
empathetic beast character.
But there are plenty of otherpeople in the show.
We had talked about RoyDeTriese again, who plays father
.
He was the head of thisunderground society.
He helped start it, whichapparently like at least in he

(27:26):
was the head of this undergroundsociety, he helped start it,
which apparently like at leastin the context of the show.
It's I don't know 30 years old,so I don't know what was
happening with all of theseKavner's underground dwellings
previous to that.
Oh, you mean the Chuds.
Oh, it was all the Chuds' hardwork, they kicked out the Chuds,

(27:46):
the Morlocks, and just took itover.
That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, and so at what point does he have a knife fight
with Callisto is what I'mcurious about.
I think that was about 1986.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
That famous period where Linda Hamilton had that
mohawk oh man.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, you know what Badass.
She shows up in Terminator 2with a mohawk.
I'm so way more in than I wasbefore.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I don't know.
I don't know if I'd get more inthan what Little Hampton was in
T2.
Kicks so much ass in that movie.
So you have these undergroundpeople again, fringes of society
that have gone underground tofind a home and brethren find a

(28:31):
home and brethren.
It's like if the ren fair mettmnt land.
There are all these people, buteveryone wears tattered garb.
But you also have normal-ishpeople.
You have helpers, very akin tothe watchers in highlander okay
where, like they have thehelpers when they come and go.
But you know they provide helpor like medical assistance.
They're sympathetic people fromthe world above, as it were,

(28:52):
and they're all in charge ofsafeguarding the secret of the
underground utopia Of the ooze.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
You're essentially describing Daniel Stern's
character.
From Chud, remember, he runsthe soup kitchen and helps out
all the underground dwellers.
You know I had forgotten that.
From chud, remember, he runsthe soup kitchen and helps out
all the underground dwellers.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
You know, I had forgotten that.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Um, he's like the second major character in the
movie.
What you're describingessentially is chud, but okay,
all right, I'm with you, I cancobble these references together
, okay we'll go with that, butyou did have Armin Shimmerman as
a occurring character, wow.
That pops up.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
He's the supervisor of the pipe-based communication
system of the underground world.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Okay, all right.
So he's like the Walter Matthaufrom the taking of Philemon 1,
2, 3 or whatever.
Kind of Sure, we'll go withthat.
If he only had been able totalk to Ron Perlman about
sitting in a chair forprosthetics for four hours.
Famously, obviously for thoseof you who don't know played

(29:53):
Quark in Star Trek Deep SpaceNine Ferengi who, infamously,
was in that makeup chair formany hours for each episode yeah
, a long long time.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
But they had other people.
They had weird magician guy.
You had this blind black womanwho was like into voodoo.
Yeah, it was a little, not thebest.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
First of all, a Stephen King character.
Second, so you're saying theyhad Callisto and Calypso?
All right, Anybody seen Kraventhe Hunter?
No, no.
I haven't either.
That's fine.
Does he show up?
Here, Well, I mean Calypsoshows up in Kraven the Hunter.
Yeah, no, I was just trying tothink of if anybody like Kraven
was in the series that I couldremember oh.

(30:46):
That actually would have been aninteresting character to
introduce into this show,considering what he does and his
powers and origin, at least asproposed in the movie.
But probably not.
Yeah, it was a cbs show in 1990, so probably not you have bad
guys as well.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Villain of the week that they'd have to stop.
You know, either in thecourtroom or you know vigilante
justice of all kinds, from weirdmobsters to.
I watched another episode wherethere was a martial arts kung
fu guy who was trying to protectthe voiceless and the homeless,

(31:19):
running around in like a fakeVincent outfit with razor blade
claws Interesting.
That he was cutting up hoodlumsand bad people that were
ne'er-do-wells on the subway.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
It was David Carradine as John Paul Valley.
It was actually oh God.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Now that it's like a black martial arts actor, you
would know.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Well, obviously pre-Michael J White, I think
it's like the second episode.
It's not the dude from End ofthe Dragon, is it?
That would be interesting.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Dorian Harewood, who you know from Full Metal Jacket
or Sudden Death.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yes, Sudden Death the .

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Assault on Precinct 13 remake.
Maybe, hey great, you wouldrecognize him.
He played the Martian man undervoice in the Batman Show.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Hey, cool, Well it was only four episodes.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
He also played Jim Rode in the Iron man cartoon.
How about that?

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Oh, the 90s.
Iron man Okay yeah, wow, thatwas a great show too, actually.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
What the Iron man cartoon from the 90s.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, it kind of was awesome.
They had a lot of interestingdeep cut Marvel stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
One of the main bad guys of the series is a
character called Paracelsus.
Now, this was a Okay yeah, thiswas apparently like one of the
co-founders, along with fatherof the underground world, but he
was cast out.
He's kind of like a bad guythroughout the rest of the
series, at least up until theend of the second season.
This is a play by Tony Jay,famous villainous actor.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yes, yeah, super cool .
One of the great characteractors?

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, and this one, he so he's always like cloaked
and he has a scar on his face,so he has half this metal mask.
Okay, very theatrical.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
I understand this is probably an intentional approach
, but not just adapting Beautyand the Beast, but they're also
like incorporating, you know,Phantom of the Opera and a lot
of other romantic fables intothis.
That one is almost like youmight be trying a little hard.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, it was hard to say exactly how much magic and
mysticism is at play in this.
One of the things Paracelsusdoes is that he's like a master
of disguise, and you can seesome of George RR Martin's
writing come through in here.
There's a scene where some ofthe stuff that Martin is into

(33:39):
later make their way into theshow before he wrote those books
.
So Paracelsus goes into thisroom where there's this witch
lady who's molding clay faces,and around this rock walls are
different faces.
Ah, yes.
And he's cloaked and he's ableto change his voice and, by
putting on these masks, becomethe other people.

(34:00):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, that's never going to be used later, never
gonna come up at all again, sohe uses this at least one time.
I saw there's a classic georger mart episode called winter
fest okay it goes on to be.
This is what the what do theycall themselves?
The helpers and other peoplewho have become fans of the
series put on a Winterfest everyyear, still, still, still.

(34:25):
To this day, you GoogleWinterfest.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Well, Winterfest is coming Winterfest 2025.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Maybe don't do that, maybe Beauty and the Beast.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I haven't looked this up, but I imagine that it's
probably become like furry thing, considering Vincent.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
There is some.
When they had in-person winterfests, there were a lot of
cosplay yeah, no shit yeah yeah,the caves and candles community
.
Okay, this has at least 1.6followers currently on facebook
1.6, it is 1.6 1.6 000 sorrybecause I'm curious as to how
that metric works out but thislooks to follow a lot of its

(35:03):
fandom of the series and RonPerlman, different cosplayers
who would go to theseconventions.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Currently there's a Winterfest online that's active.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
They're missing the boat if they don't advertise it,
as Winterfest is coming.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
It is for the fandom to find.
We have other paths to take.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I would rather go to one of those than like some sort
of supernatural the showSupernatural meetup.
Sure, If this show happenedtoday, it would have been on the
CW and ran for 12 seasons.
Yes, that is true.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
I also think some of the things about what the show
is separates it from CW fodderSure, it from CW fodder Sure and
separate it from its prodigy,because Kristen Kroik did star
in a remake.
Was it 2009?

Speaker 2 (35:51):
I thought it was 2012 , but that could have been when
it ended.
The weird thing is that it's aremake directly of this show,
not a new interpretation ofBeauty and the Beast.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yes, they remade the show.
Oh, it's 2012.
Right?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Right.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
But the things they use.
Catherine vincent the new yorksetting, but instead of a da, I
think she's a detective on theforce.
Instead of being a weird,totally buy it lion hybrid
person.
He's a former soldier who wasexperimented on to have beast
qualities and is is scarred, oh,and when you say scarred, he's
got a scar on his.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yes, uh, that's how hideous he is as a beast.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
He's got a scar, otherwise he's your generic
early 20s cw hunk guy oh yeah,he's an arrow verse dude oh yeah
100, he might as well be.
Yeah, they didn't go too faroff the reservation for that
particular show there.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
No, they weren't trying very hard.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
But one thing that they did try hard, at least in
this show, was the writing.
So when you have this fantasyromance that is set in like this
New York backdrop, it couldcome off pretty cheesy.
Set in like this Newarkbackdrop, it could come off
pretty cheesy.
But what has kept fans andsomething I found when I was
watching, is, like you know,it's pretty well written as far

(37:09):
as this type of show goes.
You know a lot of the shortcutsthat you'd have in a show like
this.
A lot of the dramatic pitfallsthey don't happen as often.
The characters well, some ofthe characters act fairly
natural.
They have a lot of interestingpolitical takes that they're
trying to interweave within the.
The dialogue of the show and alot of the dialogue is pretty

(37:33):
fanciful, but it's heartfelt andI don't for lack of a better
word, not crappy as manyimportant philosophers have said
Well, I mean, you had competentwriters.
Yeah, they went on to struttheir stuff with other bigger
series, but for something thatcould be really campy and in a
lot of ways like wouldn't needto put a whole lot of effort.

(37:55):
What separated this from justbeing run of the mill was that
it was well written and wellacted.
Run of the mill was that it waswell written and well acted.
You did feel for both of thesecharacters.
The way they set up the dramaallowed for this story to bloom
and for people to really investthemselves into the tale.
And another part of that isthat you have this Vincent

(38:16):
character who, yes, I mean it'sRon Perlman under this lion
makeup, but they gave him thisswashbuckling Ren Faire
aesthetic with this cloak.
But he has this 80s mane ofhair like an 80s rock star,
might have Huge shoulder pads.

(38:36):
He's big and beefy, this animalcharisma, but heart and soul of
a poet, this empathic connectionto the main character.

(39:08):
So he's constantly there forher, not only physically, like
in a battle situation, butemotionally.
He's never distant.
He always knows what she'sfeeling and he will do things
for her.
She doesn't know that she needsor has to ask for, but he never
asks anything in return Becausethere was push-pull with both

(39:33):
the nature of the story and withCBS.
They didn't want it to be toosexual, too sexual.
So it's always a romance basedon emotion and dialogue rather
than physical embraces.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
It's not platonic, but it's past friendly yes,
yearning for each other, butnever requited.
Sadly, part of that is alsoprobably because of the nature
of the makeup as well of RonPerlman's prosthetics.
That might actually factor intothat a little bit.
But yes, like fundamentally,yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, he can be like this mythic, perfect idea of a
man complete devotion andattentive to every whim that she
has, and also be sexually.
You know there's a beauty tohim, Wow, but you know it's his

(40:32):
chivalry and his fantasy elementthat listens to her innermost
thing that, like no guy, couldever possibly provide.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Oh yeah, I mean, it's straight up a romance novel.
It's a paperback romance novel.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yes, but done with a style and grace.
And again, you know a lot ofthose romance novels.
They'll have a passionate,throbbing embrace, but you don't
have that.
You know it doesn't veer intothe trashy.
It's a little chaste.
Yeah, robust chastity.
That's always there.
But they dance around thatdoorway.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
But that's part of the appeal of a lot of those
kinds of things too is lustingafter the unattainable who is
also completely devoted to youand will rescue you at any
moment.
That sort of romance novelarchetype More the Harlequin
romance than the hardcoreromance novel of that era.
I think it perfectly fills avoid but also cribs.

(41:29):
So so much from Phantom of theOpera.
It's not just Beauty and theBeast that they're adapting,
they're doing so much in tropesof that era at the same time
that for it to run three seasonsis incredible.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
yeah well, it was only supposed to run two.
So, oh, the first season, whenit started the ratings were so,
so, and then, like, towards theend of the season, it really
took off and it was kind of ahit and that first season ended
with a kissing embrace, but itwas just done in shadow and it
was as much in their mind as itwas in the physical space.

(42:07):
At the end of the first seasonshe's very much like I don't
know if I can do this.
She's dealing with the memoriesof her dead mother and looking
at her friends, families andshe's like I want this, but I
also want this.
And she's talking to hertherapist because she can't tell
anybody she knows about thisromance that she has.

(42:28):
But she comes to understandthat what she feels, this love,
it's unlike anything else thatshe has in life and it's worth
fighting for.
And so she goes and embraceshim.
I love you and want us to be athing, even though I must stay
above and you must stay below.
You know I don't want to likesacrifice what we have to be

(42:50):
with someone else Through thesecond season, this kind of runs
.
There are times where, likethere's other possible love
interest for Vincent, anotherpossible love interest for her,
but they keep coming back toeach other.
She even tries to come liveunderground, but you know it's
like no, you can't.
You have to be part of thatworld.
You have a life to live.
We'll still be together, onelife to live, as it were.

(43:14):
But they didn't want tonecessarily ruin the could be,
would they, won't they?
Dramatic relationship, you know, with a consummation, you know,
something like what happened inMoonlighting, like once they
got together, well, it's likethe show kind of fell apart.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Every show that has ever had that problem or any
franchise that has ever had thatproblem, that ruins it.
I mean X-Files suffered fromthe same thing.
Caroline in the City foranybody out there who watched a
lot of TV, oh for Skip Alright.
I'm the only one.
You know what.
Cheers only worked becauseDiane left, which is sad,

(43:52):
because that was the onlyinteresting part of the show is
the dynamic between her and Sam.
But if she had stayed theywould eventually have gotten
together and then it would haveruined the show.
But it had like a thousandseasons because they
accidentally didn't have her inthe show anymore and then they
introduced Rebecca, who wasn'thalf as interesting, and so you

(44:15):
didn't really care as much ifthey got together or whatever,
and so I can't think of a showoff the top of my head, at least
.
Where the will they won't.
They pays off when they do.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah, it's tough and you'll.
You'll see this play out herein a minute as well.
After the end of the secondseason, the network was planning
to cancel the show, Despitehaving plenty of fans and being
critically lauded.
You know it won many awards, itwon Emmys, but they're still

(44:46):
going to cancel it, Even thoughat the end of the second season
it ends on a cliffhanger wherethe Beast has killed Paracelsus,
the main bad guy of the show,and he's freaking out and losing
his mind, possibly becoming aterror to the people underground
and maybe even finally lashingout at Catherine herself.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
I actually kind of vaguely remember this.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, like he was afraid that he had fallen into
his sort of feralistic instincts, yeah, yeah, he was starting to
lose it and he would like seeweird versions of himself, like
in mirrors or going to do things, and then he would finally lash
out and he was like on thebrink of mental collapse and
even like physical death.

(45:28):
I don't know, it's something todo with his physiology or magic
, who's to say but he was aboutto die so right at the end
episode he goes into thecatacombs down below, into the
dark caves of where nobody goesto.

(45:49):
I guess go die alone.
But Catherine, despite fathersaying no, she runs after him
because he is her life and sheis going to be there for him the
same way that he was there forher and she is going to be there
for him the same way that hewas there for her.
And it ends with her going intothe darkness.
You hear roars and her screamout Vincent.
And the show just ends for thesecond season and that's how the

(46:13):
network wanted it to just gooff the air.
That's quite the cliffhanger toleave.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
That's a big one, Thankfully there was a fan
petition.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Finger to leave.
That's a big.
That's a big one.
Thankfully there was a fanpetition.
The helpers, or the tunnelcommunity as they were called,
sent 4200 letters urging anddemanding the reinstatement of
the show.
The campaign didn't immediatelywork, but after some time the
show did pop up and they did ashortened third season that is.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
It's such a star trek archetype right there.
I mean, it's what happened theoriginal series, what's happened
with star trek enterpriseletter writing campaigns, a
hardcore fandom bringing it backfrom the network.
That shit does not work.
Today it can't.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, that's, that's fascinating there was a show of
some acclaim that did come backfrom arrested developmentrested.
Development is a big one.
I feel like there's somethingelse, but I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, but just straight up, literal, physical
letter writing campaigns.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Oh, no, no.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
It's only happened with Star Trek, this and Star
Trek Enterprise.
I can't think of any otherinstance in which that is.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
There's probably something else, but I mean
physical letters in and ofthemselves anymore don't happen
so a whole campaign based onthose.
That's not going to happen.
Unfortunately, the third seasonwas not well received,
partially because of whathappened at the beginning of the
third season.
At the beginning of the thirdseason there's like a two
episode beginning to the seasonand in subsequent reshowings it

(47:45):
was broken up into two episodes.
But it opens with Catherinefinding Vincent.
They embrace.
There's kind of like a nursingback to health in a way.
But they have this prettycringeworthy montage of their
embrace, which is a sappy lovesong, as a rose opens up and

(48:07):
pedals and there's like fire,water, like spraying up and
their fingers like the woollyhand of Vincent and her hand
like slowly meshing together andthen pulling apart.
It's pretty obvious they fuckedin this cave.
Wait, really you?

Speaker 2 (48:26):
think so, vincent, and her hand like slowly meshing
together and then pulling apart.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
It's pretty obviously fucked in this cave.
Wait really.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
You think so.
There's a train going in andout of this tunnel.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
There's the hot dog with the two walnuts on it
slamming into a clam.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
But you see, they embrace, but nothing's spoken of
that.
He's being nursed back tohealth underground at the same
time, in the above land, herboss who she's told that she is
in love with someone.
He's like hey, good for you,kid, he was investigating some
nefarious actions.

(48:58):
He is then blown up when a carexplodes.
That was meant to kill him.
She is researching that.
Oh, there's like someconnections in the underworld
that might have set him up towhatever.
And then we see that there's abad guy in shadows who seems to
know about vincent and her.
He then kidnaps her when shegoes to give blood and the nurse

(49:24):
comes in after.
She's like, oh, you shouldn'tgive him blood because you're
pregnant.
And she's like what it's like?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
yeah, don't do that.
You know pregnant people aren'tsupposed to.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
And it's a lion boy, well, we'll, we'll get to that
yes, yes because this mysterious, nefarious, only in shadows
gangster kidnaps her.
She is then pulled away.
She is given, like drugs andsodium, pentothal to try and
break her.
To get more information aboutthe underworld Turns out.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
she killed a lot of people, but they were all bad.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Well, maybe you know it's a True Lies reference.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Oh, okay, Sorry that wasn't front to mind, but I
basically haven't seen thatmovie since the theater, so I
don't know why that.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I don't know, that's bizarre, but yes.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
No, it was a trailer moment, I mean, that's probably
why it stuck in my mind.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Sometimes you just come out with stuff I'm like
where is this coming from?
What is this?

Speaker 2 (50:21):
This is why we do the show.
There's too much in here, wegotta put it out there.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah, but it ends up being Stephen McAddy, the bad
guy of the third season, mrPontypool, himself Another great
character actor.
Yeah, he has kidnapped her andkeeps her as a prisoner the
whole pregnancy and then stealsher baby and flies off on a

(50:46):
helicopter as Vincent gets thereat the last second, and he also
has a doctor shoot her up with,I guess, euthanasia drugs and
she dies in his arms at thebeginning of the third season.
Then what the fuck?
Yeah, so the rest of the thirdseason is about Vincent's search

(51:06):
for his son, this kidnappedbaby who's been taken away by
Steve McHattie, the NefariousGangster.
And there is not even Iwouldn't even call it another
love interest, love interests.
But there's a new woman who'sintroduced to be like the woman

(51:27):
in.
I think she's like a detective,who's like working on the case.
But when you take out beauty inthe beauty and the beast
scenario, things just don't workthe same anymore.
No, yeah it ends up like at theend of the series.
In the last episode he does gethis baby back.
He seems to be a normal babyboy of some sort.

(51:47):
He then rips out the ribs andbarbecues them.
That's what he was searchingfor.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
He was searching for a tasty treat.
Well, he is a beast, hey abeast is going to beast.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
What are you going to do?

Speaker 2 (52:01):
The sad part is that they were going to remake this
with Mr Beast and it was goingto be a disaster.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
But losing out the main character.
It kind of spelled the death ofthis series.
It kind of no shit Again aftertheir consummation.
Would this have worked the sameif they were a couple with a
child?
For the rest of the series it'shard to say.
Maybe they killed her off.
So double trouble and thereason that she left the show is

(52:29):
that she was pregnant herself,and oh, with John Connor, yeah,
yeah.
With John Connor indeed.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
She's on the run at this point.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, John Connor, indeed she's on the run at this
point.
Yeah, no, she left the show toraise her son Dalton.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
To train him for the coming robot war.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Bruce Abbott, who was also on the show, who was her
husband at the time.
He left her while she waspregnant during the show.
Oof Yikes, if you listen to hertalk about it, she doesn't
blame him.
Oof Yikes, if you listen to hertalk about it, she doesn't
blame him.
So apparently she was dealingwith bipolar disorder at the
time and also had some problemslike using drugs to kind of

(53:11):
stabilize that and was violentlylashing out at him.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
That's really interesting, because isn't that
almost exactly what they talkabout in Terminator 2, when the
psychiatrist is going over herdiagnosis?
I mean that can't becoincidence, right?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
I mean that's I I mean it could have been.
I it's my understanding thatshe didn't realize her kind of
mental makeup until later on inlife, because she did go on to
like recandle her career andtruly like put on a map with
betrayal as Sarah Connor inTerminator 2.
And she did end up having arelationship and marrying James

(53:49):
Cameron.
But it's also after the birthof her second son she had some
postpartum depression.
That then, with her bipolar,really messed her up.
She blames that for their splitas well.
Kohler really messed her up.
She blames that for their splitas well.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
And then she went on to talk about her struggles with
mental health and that theseconditions and the way she
reacted to them was the cause ofher split from both of her
previous husbands.
Kind of a modern day MargotKidder, but with diagnoses and
help.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
At least eventually, eventually.
Yeah, I mean at leasteventually, eventually.
Yeah, I mean it 100%.
Derailed her career.
Yes, this is probably the moststable thing she had.
She had T2, and then what didshe do between that and?

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Yeah, and I had always assumed that she just
kind of dropped out lived herlife, you know, yeah, obscurity.
But it could have been that itwas because of these things that
she was dealing with, that shejust left to take care of
herself and her children.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah, I mean that's the most likely scenario.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, this weird beast's search for vengeance on
his quest to find his long-lostson against a shady villain
who's trying to steal his sonand maybe expose him that's
maybe like a subsequent comicbook tie-in later, so that's not

(55:19):
gonna keep keep that show going.
So, as opposed to the previousseasons, you know, which had the
normal 22 to 24 episodes, thisthird season only had 11
episodes and ended with a bit ofa whimper and unfortunately
Beauty and the Beast kind offaded into obscurity.
Again you had a loyal fan base,but it was a really niche thing

(55:42):
.
Again it had DVD releases, butit didn't really have
long-running syndication.
After that it didn't come tostreaming.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, that's weird.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
So again, it's hard to find and it's not promoted at
all that if you want to see ityou have to search out on
YouTube and backdoor internetareas to Whoa whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
We're getting to weird stuff right here.
That's not.
I feel like this show didsuffer from not being originally
a syndicated series.
You know what I mean, and wehave talked about this before on
the show.
But the Star Trek phenomenon ofnot being on a network but
being syndicated, made and thenshown on whatever network later,

(56:26):
so not being beholdennecessarily to the network's
demands or their rewrites orwhat have you.
And I feel like this show wouldhave thrived in that era If it
had been a syndicated show fromthe get-go.
It probably would have run fora long time and Linda Hamilton
and Ron Perlman would probablyhave long TV careers.

(56:48):
But the fact that it was tiedto CBS specifically, I think,
really probably hurt it evendespite its loyal fan base.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Yeah, CBS, because they had the rights to the
series.
They did develop the reboot in2012, like we talked about
before, but that was a wet fart.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yeah, no one seemed to like that, even though it did
run for just about as long asthe original right.
Yeah, it oddly, lasted quite awhile, even though it was at
least three seasons, which is itlasted four seasons.
Jesus Christ, it went longer.
That's CBS for you.
Yeah, even though it was atleast three seasons, which is,
it lasted four seasons jesuschrist, it went longer that's
cbs for you.
Yeah, two and a half men can get40 000 years on tv, but back

(57:31):
then you can't get three fullseasons of beauty and the beast
but apparently the people wholoved it really loved it.
Like I'm looking at some ofthese imdb like 8.7 out of 10,
that's crazy one of the reasonsI proposed this is an idea of my
mother was obsessed with thisshow.
This was like her modernmainstream prime time soap opera
.
Dark shadows obviously wasalready over, but this was

(57:54):
romantic in basically everysense of that word and it was
playing all these tropes and theunattainable man who was always
good fundamentally and wouldsave the heroine in her time of
peril.
I mean it played on so manytropes that appeal to a certain
demographic.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Literature and poetry , and the Renaissance, aesthetic
and medieval chivalry.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Yeah, I totally get why people of a certain age or
at least well, not even that Imean, like I'm sure that a lot
of people today, if they couldsee this show, would be huge
fans.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Like I said, I watched quite a few episodes.
I mean, I didn't have anyrecollection of them before I
saw them, because I vaguelyremember the show being on.
I remember it being cool, butit wasn't my type of show.
As a kid, my parents didn'twatch it, so it was more of like
a passing knowledge.
But like I said it was, I meanit has the trappings of, you
know, an 80s fantasy romanceshow, the pre-procedural villain

(58:59):
of the week kind of thing.
But again, it's pretty wellwritten and the characters are
pretty well done.
It shows pretty decent in allhonesty it's watchable?
yeah, it's very watchable.
Which?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
is crazy for the kind of shows that we talk about,
that it really is.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
yeah, I would say, if you get a chance and you'd like
a different take on the beautyand the beast.
Because one big thing about alot of versions of beauty and
the Beast is that what might belobbied as a criticism in a way
is that the characters in theshow are pretty static.
There isn't a realmetamorphosis.
I mean, their relationshipdeepens and grows, but them as

(59:38):
people and archetypes don'treally change.
Yeah, yeah, in the story whereBeauty does in a way fall for
the Beast and he changes intothe prince that he was before,
you know, in the true fairytalefashion, you don't have that.
His beauty is an inner beautyand it's the beauty of his soul

(59:58):
and his connection to her, youknow, not on a sexual level, but
on a truly emotional, deep soullevel.
And their romance is one ofplatonic, ideal, romantic union.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
But it also is a longing, yearning, unrequited
sexual thing as well, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
No, it's bubbling under that surface, especially
deep into the first season andwell throughout the second
season.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
I mean, it's straight up a romance novel.
It's the classic 80s, early 90sromance novel dynamic.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Yeah, but with modern trappings.
You know the big city and thelife above and the world below.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, there are so many ways in which this show
could have worked long term, butit just fell into a weird era.
Show could have worked longterm, but it just fell into a
weird era.
But also, at the same time,you're right it, just based on
its premise, can't last too long.
You're gonna bump into a wallat some point because something
has to change, something has tobe different.
Like I said, cheers is acomplete aberration of the will.

(01:01:02):
They won't they.
Those kinds of things can'tlast.
Eventually, something has tochange, and nothing, when things
are actually requited, work.
And so the show.
It's so bizarre because it isby a major network and it's got
a bunch of great actors in itfamous actors in it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Well, they weren't necessarily famous at the time,
but for a show like this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
If this show came out , let's say, in 2010 or 12, it
would be on the CW and it wouldprobably run for 5,000 seasons.
If it came out today, it wouldprobably be on like, I don't
know, like an Amazon or like aNetflix original and would have
huge actors.
And it would be.
If it came out just a few yearslater than it did, and or had

(01:01:47):
been in syndication from the getgo, it probably would have had
a great run and people wouldreally remember it fondly, more
so than currently.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
It might have been the combination of a pre
Terminator 2, linda Hamilton, apre blowing up Ron Perlman.
You know you had these writingteams of George R Martin and the
24 guys you had this talentthere who gave them the
springboard to do more things inHollywood.

(01:02:15):
But would it have been the sameif you didn't have all of these
elements?
Would it have been the same ifit lasted longer?
The longer it went, things didget, at least in this short
period of time.
They got crazier.
You had to introduce anunderworld, possibly magic
villain.
You had to have a in theshadows hiring assassins mob

(01:02:36):
boss.
That lasted a whole season.
Would they have kept upping theante and would it have been
able to sustain under thoseunruly weights?

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
I don't know.
I agree with you?
I don't think so.
That is why it's an odd show,but at the same time it really
ultimately probably would havebeen the same that it is.
The premise would have run out.
Granted, you wouldn't havegotten stars like you did.
If it had come out later, itwould have just been whatever cW
model that they hired orwhatever.

(01:03:07):
But it's a fascinating thingbecause on TV, on network
primetime TV, there were noshows like this.
It's an outlier like StElsewhere.
It exists in its time.
I don't know if it even belongsin its time then, but it
happened and hey we got to seeit.
Yeah, there's a lot of elements,both textually and

(01:03:33):
metatexturally, that put it inthis timeless space, which I
think also helps it for itswatchability today.
Even watching it, I keptthinking like man, this should
just be set in Paris.
It would make so much moresense.
But then I keep thinking oh,but there is this weird
underworld in New York that afew things have touched on.
It's a baffling, and not in abad way.
It's a baffling show, but whatare we going to do about it now?

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
It happens.
No, it happens, and that's whywe did an episode on it, because
it was so unique, fascinating.
It's a fascinating snapshot ofan era, with these actors, these
writers, an interestinginterpretation of the story.
Right on the tail end of theshow ending, the Disney version
comes out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
The Disney version is so you're right in the social
zeitgeist that makes it really,really interesting, and I'm
really glad there is a devotedfandom to this day.
You know it deserves it.
I would hate for the show to beone of the shows that nobody
remembers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
No, and I'm glad that we're at least able to bring it
to an audience, however bigthis is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
All four of you, thank you.
And, by the way, stephenMcHattie, is he not the poor
man's Lance Hendrickson?

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Oh yes.
To a point where, when he isintroduced, I kind of like
what's that?
No, no, it's not.
The voice is slightly differentenough, but it's the Bill
Pullman, bill Paxton Paxtonproblem.
It's much like Pokemon, reallyExactly like Pokemon and just
like Pokemon.
We'd like to thank you from thePikachu of our hearts for

(01:04:58):
listening to today's pod aboutBeauty and the Beast and
whatever we talked about at thebeginning of the episode, which
may or may not make it in.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
I think it was a lot about Bronson.
There was a lot of Bronson in.
There was a lot of Bronson-ingin there.
I think Bronson.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Yeah, we would like to thank you on behalf of CGI
Recreated and DH and CharlesBronson.
Thanks for listening.
We hope you've enjoyed yourtime with us.
If you wouldn't mind, likesharing and subscribing, that's
the best way for us to get heardand seen.
Wouldn't mind giving us, uh,five throbbing hairy vincent
heartbeats on the podcast app ofyour choice.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Last name vincent.
What?
What was his last name?
Yeah, I thought he had a lastname I think it's wells, if I
remember right give us fivevincent wells, I think they just
call him vincent.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
I don't think he's ever, like truly, given a last
name.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Yeah, maybe on the limited VHS release of the
complete series you mightactually shout him out with his
real name.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
But yeah, hey, thanks for listening to us.
We hope you come back for morewild stuff we talk about.
Who knows what it's going to be?
Oh, it's going to be nuts.
Until that time, skip.
What else might they do ifthey're so inclined?
Well, what else might they doif they're so?

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
inclined.
Well, I mean, if they're goodcitizens, they would.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
We don't have any of those left anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
That's probably true.
They'd clean up afterthemselves to some sort of
reasonable degree.
Just be polite, make sure youhave tipped your waitstaff, your
bartenders, your KJs, and don'tforget to support your local
comic shops and retailers.
And from Dispatch Ajax we wouldboth like to say Godspeed, fair

(01:06:29):
Wizards, meow, what does thathave to do with this episode?

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
He's a cat guy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Oh, okay, yeah, I'll give you that one, even though
we barely touched on that theentire time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
They don't explain where he came from in the show.
No, they.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
You know what, though I don't mind that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I think that's fine yeah, he was brought to like a
church doorstep they talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Possibly he was a genetic experiment by the
government, but I kind of don'tneed that, though you know it's
like james bond.
I don't want to know yourorigin story.
Yeah, no, I kind of like whoyou are and that the fact that
you're weird is good enough.
I think that's that's cool,especially since it's like a
fantasy romance.
I don't need to know the origin.

(01:07:15):
I think I don't.
I don't need to know, like, thegenetic background of the
fucking white walkers.
I don't need that, I don't needit, I don't want it and I don't
need it.
Just just let me enjoy that.
You know, that's the differencebetween sci-fi and fantasy.
Like, I kind of need to knowwhat con.
I don't need it, I don't wantit and I don't need it.
Just let me enjoy that.
That's the difference betweensci-fi and fantasy.
I kind of need to know whatKhan comes from, but I don't
need to fucking know anythingabout.

(01:07:37):
You know, I don't need to knowabout the Emperor.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Oh shit, Palpatine came again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Oh, there he is again .

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
All over our face.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
He's propped up by so many robotics.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Please go away.